Speaker 1: I don't think they understand You're not just talking about
Speaker 1: my hair at a certain point, You're talking about like
Speaker 1: me as a person. I feel like for you, will
Speaker 1: I feel like some of this started with you. Really young.
Speaker 1: Willow has the prettiest hair, and she just didn't believe it.
Speaker 1: I didn't and I'm still trying to believe it. What's up, everybody,
Speaker 1: I'm Gammy and this is positively gam Every week I
Speaker 1: have raw, in depth conversations with inspirational people pushing for
Speaker 1: change on everything from aging, relationships, politics, wellness, to the
Speaker 1: current issues facing the black community. Okay, joining me is
Speaker 1: a lovely panel of strong black women, starting with one
Speaker 1: of my heartbeats, my lovely granddaughter, Willow, and we have
Speaker 1: celebrity hairstylist Stacy Cisseron and hair historian Jay Lash. I
Speaker 1: really wanted to have this conversation. I've wanted to have
Speaker 1: it for a really long time. I know hair is
Speaker 1: supposed to be a woman's glory, but I don't know
Speaker 1: any Black woman who hasn't had a vacillating relationship with
Speaker 1: their hair. I know I have over the years, and
Speaker 1: I really think a lot of the struggle has to
Speaker 1: do with how we've been brainwashed for centuries. I think
Speaker 1: that's that awakening and that understanding is something that has
Speaker 1: been suppressed for so long that I feel like just
Speaker 1: now even myself, like with me shaving my head and
Speaker 1: with me like trying to regrow that regrow physically and spiritually,
Speaker 1: that relationship with my hair. I feel it so important
Speaker 1: because as a young girl, it was rough with my
Speaker 1: hair like it was, Yeah, it was, and that I
Speaker 1: hated my hair goes back to all the brainwashing that
Speaker 1: we went through making us feel like we had we
Speaker 1: had to in order for us to have any kind
Speaker 1: of self esteem about ourselves. Over the years, it was
Speaker 1: about assimilating into the culture of the colonizers and the
Speaker 1: way we looked in the way we dressed. I remember
Speaker 1: you got mad one time because I wanted to get extensions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about that. We're gonna we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about that. But I just want to get to this
Speaker 1: point and I want you to get us up to
Speaker 1: the point where we start mixing. Mm hmmm, you know
Speaker 1: not Yeah, greapes happening on plantations, and when you start
Speaker 1: this process, A couple of things happened. Number One, you
Speaker 1: have people who are now vibracial in their hair texture
Speaker 1: is softer, curls are looser, they're considered prettier. And so
Speaker 1: this is where you start the term good hair, pretty kid,
Speaker 1: pretty she is. And there is a high arty created
Speaker 1: with white boats that we've been internalized amongst ourselves. And
Speaker 1: so there are documented cases of light skinned black boats
Speaker 1: having separate church ceremonies for themselves from the dark skin
Speaker 1: black footing. This is during this right, So this is
Speaker 1: when we start that process. We internalized that inferiority and
Speaker 1: start to believe it. And it's been going on for
Speaker 1: generations and generations. So you can see how we start
Speaker 1: separating from one another based on the brainwashing that we've
Speaker 1: black women with other black women, because like when I
Speaker 1: was younger, there would be like even family members that
Speaker 1: were my peers, like my cousins or whatever it was,
Speaker 1: because I had one cousin that had really beautiful flowing
Speaker 1: her and every time I would just look at her
Speaker 1: and I would because you're so beautiful, like I want that,
Speaker 1: And every time I would bring it up, she would
Speaker 1: always just be like, not everyone can, and it would
Speaker 1: and it would be it was like a real hurt
Speaker 1: for me, like I was like wow, And then she'd
Speaker 1: be like trying to be like, maybe you should get
Speaker 1: a weave, maybe you should get a perm, maybe you
Speaker 1: should you know, and like all of these things, and
Speaker 1: like other black women, not even trying to be like no,
Speaker 1: like you're beautiful, Like we're different, but we're beautiful together. Okay.
Speaker 1: So I want to take us back to the good hair,
Speaker 1: bad hair, because now we we understand where it all
Speaker 1: came from. But and actually that was a real stickler
Speaker 1: for me when I was growing up. I hated that
Speaker 1: because I had long braids and all of that. But
Speaker 1: the good hair, bad hair, I'm guilty of saying that,
Speaker 1: what are the proper terms that we should use when
Speaker 1: we're trying to describe our hair and not the good
Speaker 1: hair bad hair? Stacy, let me tell you while you're
Speaker 1: talking my my brain, my emotions, it's it's such a
Speaker 1: trigger for us that I have about fifty million thoughts
Speaker 1: that just came to me. But the first thing that
Speaker 1: came to me is the reward and the punishment first
Speaker 1: of all that comes with good hair bad here. So
Speaker 1: even if you don't want to believe it, like oh
Speaker 1: I have beautiful hair, I have this I have that
Speaker 1: we go back to the punishment versus the reward. Okay,
Speaker 1: so what happens with the person with the good hair?
Speaker 1: Are they getting different opportunities, are they getting different chances?
Speaker 1: Are they being more visible? Are they being taken seriously?
Speaker 1: Because there's a lot of things that come in with
Speaker 1: the hair, with the complexion and different things like that.
Speaker 1: So when I think about good hair bad hair as
Speaker 1: a professional, I could not refer to it that way.
Speaker 1: Especially with teaching consumers and teaching hair style this we
Speaker 1: refer to it more by its characteristics. What does it
Speaker 1: look like? Is it straight? Is it wavy? Is it coally?
Speaker 1: Is it curly? That's more like how we refer to
Speaker 1: hair texture, hair type, density, perosity, and things like that.
Speaker 1: But even within our excuse me, I was just saying,
Speaker 1: because those words don't like throw shade on the person
Speaker 1: you're talking now, because they're they're facts. They're now. But
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say that I did not hear it
Speaker 1: growing up and even within having a Caribbean background and
Speaker 1: in in all of that comes with But the good
Speaker 1: hair bad hair to me, comes with the punishment versus reward,
Speaker 1: even though we switch it in our in our vocabulary,
Speaker 1: in our conversations. We're still gonna be punished somehow. We're
Speaker 1: still maybe not going to get the job opportunities or
Speaker 1: get noticed by somebody that we like, somebody that we
Speaker 1: are attracted to make. What good hair versus bad here?
Speaker 1: So this is what I'm saying, so at that's my take.
Speaker 1: When the good here bad here, we would have to
Speaker 1: dig a little deeper to correct the punishment versus the rewards.
Speaker 1: If that's the exact replica of that culture that we
Speaker 1: pay from the exact same thing, you got different treatment,
Speaker 1: better jobs right on the plantation for lighter skin, longer hair.
Speaker 1: Even with amongst ourselves we do that. So yeah, we're
Speaker 1: doing the exact same thing, and we haven't unlearned that behavior.
Speaker 1: It is corpus of rooting. Yeah, good is desirable, desirable,
Speaker 1: That is not desirable. And I don't know how true
Speaker 1: this is. We these things pop up on the Internet
Speaker 1: saying that black women are the least desirable women of all,
Speaker 1: which that comes with its thing too. I feel like
Speaker 1: that I can't tell you how much that narrative, how
Speaker 1: much I've seen that narrative, and how much I've just
Speaker 1: been around it, even even people would be like, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's so interesting that your light skin, but your hair
Speaker 1: is not how I would expect. It's like always that.
Speaker 1: It's always something like that, or it's we wanted to
Speaker 1: do this hairstyle, Like if I'm going to a photo
Speaker 1: shoot or something, it's we wanted to do this hairstyle,
Speaker 1: but your hair is just a little difficult today or
Speaker 1: something or whatever it is. But they think that it's
Speaker 1: like totally okay to say. They think it's just Oh,
Speaker 1: it's just a fact. It's just your hair is difficult
Speaker 1: right now. It's I don't think they understand that you're
Speaker 1: not really You're not just talking about my hair at
Speaker 1: a certain point, You're talking about like me as a person.
Speaker 1: And I think that's where a lot of black women
Speaker 1: just start to feel that worth just starts to just
Speaker 1: slip away from them. They're feeling of their self worth,
Speaker 1: at feeling of value because things like that are being said.
Speaker 1: They're going to work, people are saying, oh, can't you
Speaker 1: it's standing up so it's so hot, how do you
Speaker 1: get your hair that high? Which it's crazy. I feel
Speaker 1: like for you will, I feel like some of this
Speaker 1: started with you really young, and I remember just really listen,
Speaker 1: willowhead the prettiest hair. She has the prettiest hair, and
Speaker 1: she just didn't believe it. I didn't, and I'm still
Speaker 1: trying to believe it. I'm still in the process of
Speaker 1: my little fro. I'm like, I need to nurture you.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to, like I say mantras in the morning,
Speaker 1: I like put the oil in my hair. I'm like
Speaker 1: really trying to. Like it's a self like regaining that
Speaker 1: like self love and that because I never had that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I just I never I understood it. I just
Speaker 1: jad and I just tried so hard to fight that
Speaker 1: and give her confidence and just tell her how beautiful
Speaker 1: she had, the the prettiest head of hair. What I
Speaker 1: will say is that when Mommy showed me the Rough
Speaker 1: and Stuff music video, that changed a lot because I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I'm rough and stuff with my afro puffs, Okay.
Speaker 1: I was like, this is my whole life. I wish
Speaker 1: the audience could actually see us, because you guys, with
Speaker 1: your hair right now is absolutely beautiful. And I had
Speaker 1: pictures a Willow with her hair when she was little,
Speaker 1: and I just couldn't understand why she didn't see what
Speaker 1: I saw, and then we're gonna go back to you know,
Speaker 1: your statement that I was really upset when will I
Speaker 1: was young and she wanted extensions, and I felt like
Speaker 1: if we allowed her to get extensions that young, that
Speaker 1: we were just it was just gonna be downhill after that,
Speaker 1: because to me, it was an admission that what was
Speaker 1: on her head was not good enough. And it was
Speaker 1: you and Kennedy. It was you and Kennedy and I
Speaker 1: just there were a lot of basically all of my
Speaker 1: black girlfriends at the time, we were all just we
Speaker 1: hate this, like we were all just we don't like
Speaker 1: the way we looked like. I would wake up in
Speaker 1: the morning and my hair because my hair is super course,
Speaker 1: so it would be like to the side and like
Speaker 1: a like you know those troll dolls. It would look
Speaker 1: like to the side like that, and I would look
Speaker 1: at myself and just feel so ugly and I would
Speaker 1: cry almost every morning. And I guess I need to
Speaker 1: say too that it was really just an interesting journey
Speaker 1: because Jada and I don't have hair like Willows, our hair,
Speaker 1: our textures. They look at my mom's hair and I'd
Speaker 1: be like, why don't have to talk? But in our family,
Speaker 1: there are so many different textures of hair. Like my
Speaker 1: mother's hair was straight and silky. So my mother and
Speaker 1: sister Karen, Karen's hair was so straight that you couldn't
Speaker 1: braid it. It wouldn't stay we would just it would
Speaker 1: just come out. And my mother wasn't good with caring
Speaker 1: for her hair. We didn't really know how to care
Speaker 1: for our hair. And like, even on my head, there's
Speaker 1: different textures in my head. Yeah, the name of my neck.
Speaker 1: For Jada and I, the nape of our necks is
Speaker 1: the straightest part of our hair. The crown is curlier,
Speaker 1: and the sides it's just friends. But it's even like
Speaker 1: learning to like there's so many different parts of yourself,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like there's so many different
Speaker 1: facets of gamming that it's like learning to accept. It's
Speaker 1: like a microcosm of yourself. Yeah, so you gotta figure
Speaker 1: it out exactly. You gotta figure it out. We gotta
Speaker 1: love yourself, love your hair, and that's that's a life journey,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I also feel again going
Speaker 1: back to the connection, especially with young girls. I have teenagers,
Speaker 1: and no matter how much I try to instill in them,
Speaker 1: it goes back to we want to fit in, we
Speaker 1: want to feel connected, and we want to feel love.
Speaker 1: So we can be saying one thing, but it's still
Speaker 1: going to be based on the reactions of the friends,
Speaker 1: people you like and people who you want to fit
Speaker 1: in with. So you can be saying you're so beautiful,
Speaker 1: your hair so beautiful, but if somebody that she likes,
Speaker 1: you cannot control the sparkle in somebody's eye. So maybe
Speaker 1: you just want to get a sparkle when somebody's I
Speaker 1: and you don't get it. And and so, no matter
Speaker 1: how much you try to tell your children love yourself,
Speaker 1: love yourself, there's this factor of wanting to belong, feel connected,
Speaker 1: feel love, and get that sparkle that they don't get.
Speaker 1: So the idea, even as an adult, is to find
Speaker 1: the sparkle in your own eye. Yeah, and not get
Speaker 1: it from somebody else. But it's the comparison, and we
Speaker 1: just can't help it. I tell you it was painful. No,
Speaker 1: I would always it was painful, specifically from the cousin
Speaker 1: who had the really kurt like loose curly hair, and
Speaker 1: you would always go, boys don't like girls with afros.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying this is my point. This is exactly
Speaker 1: my point. So we just have to find a way too.
Speaker 1: And it's maybe it's just a process for that contrast
Speaker 1: to see that. I don't know good until I see bad.
Speaker 1: I don't know love until I see paint. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just a part of that process to gain
Speaker 1: that that self love and connection. Well, we'll say you
Speaker 1: would just talking about Willow about this self study piece.
Speaker 1: I think it's really critical because I had a very
Speaker 1: similar experience. My mother was a hair stylist, is a
Speaker 1: hair stylist, and so she would quarrel my hair and
Speaker 1: there's a little girl. I look, I'm like making my
Speaker 1: little bit. But then when I got older, I started
Speaker 1: to want something different. I wanted my hair to be longer,
Speaker 1: I wanted to be like the other people. I wanted
Speaker 1: the boys to like me, all of that because but
Speaker 1: what changed. I cut my hair off when I was seventeen,
Speaker 1: just cut it all off. And at that moment I
Speaker 1: started asking myself a lot of questions just about who
Speaker 1: I was. Fast forward, I'm thirty five and I've been
Speaker 1: an educator since I was twenty two. And what I
Speaker 1: learned in that process two things. Number One as a
Speaker 1: high school history teacher, I noticed that we spend thirteen
Speaker 1: years minimum if you go all the way through, if
Speaker 1: you go on to college, it's more in school, and
Speaker 1: not any part of that is none of them. And
Speaker 1: so we spend all of this time being indoctrinated in
Speaker 1: all of this material, whether it's about government or health,
Speaker 1: or science or philosophies, from all these other people, and
Speaker 1: those them are truth, exact perfection, and so that's what
Speaker 1: we think about the world. Opinions of other people start
Speaker 1: to matter more because we're taught that opinions of other
Speaker 1: people hold truth, not our own experience. We can't heard
Speaker 1: of anything from everywhere else, and so this self study
Speaker 1: piece is very big. I think that's critical. And I
Speaker 1: think there's a song that you have, what is it
Speaker 1: organization and can classification? That is real, That is so
Speaker 1: real that when we do that, it creates a hierarchy
Speaker 1: in our minds at ourselves and others and operate, And
Speaker 1: so I think it's self study. I'm so glad you
Speaker 1: got that from that song. That's so many people were
Speaker 1: looking at me like girls doesn't make any sense. We
Speaker 1: need to organize things, it's what we need to I
Speaker 1: think if we can get out of these boxes, it'll
Speaker 1: help us to break down the higharchy. I agree. It's
Speaker 1: one of those things where you can't get free if
Speaker 1: you don't really know your truth. You are your own perfection.
Speaker 1: There is no such thing as perfect, there's no such
Speaker 1: thing as absolute, you know, Like we're just all on
Speaker 1: our own particular journeys. But we're in a world that
Speaker 1: wants to categorize us so much, wants to create a
Speaker 1: superiority and the supremacy that we are indoctrinated with this,
Speaker 1: and so then it becomes hard to battle ourselves out.
Speaker 1: Even with the love of a like a good mother,
Speaker 1: a good grandmother, like telling us all these wonderful things,
Speaker 1: we can't get it because everything in the world is
Speaker 1: telling us. No expert, they're not the expert they are. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's really sad, it's true. It's really sad to think
Speaker 1: about it now. Wow, And when you talk when you
Speaker 1: put that on top of the generational trauma of being
Speaker 1: a black person, on top of that being a black woman,
Speaker 1: and then you're put into this system. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: a recipe for this is well, it grow down to survival,
Speaker 1: which is what we have to do. To just to survive.
Speaker 1: So I want to talk a little bit. Let's go
Speaker 1: back to your journey with your hair and back, and
Speaker 1: what was it like when you cut your hair first time.
Speaker 1: It wasn't the first time we cut your hair, but
Speaker 1: it was it was the first time that you cut
Speaker 1: it off. And I have to admit that we we
Speaker 1: did a lot of experimentation with your hair because my
Speaker 1: mom was like, don't want to shave it all off
Speaker 1: at once. I was like, let's maybe the side, maybe
Speaker 1: half of the side exactly. But we also put heat
Speaker 1: to her hair. We wouldn't permit, but we put heat
Speaker 1: to it, which again I did not want to do
Speaker 1: because I knew it was gonna change the texture off
Speaker 1: her hand, and I knew that wine it changed the
Speaker 1: texture of your hair. I'm getting this virgin progress. I
Speaker 1: die gress. I diegress. So you decided that you wanted
Speaker 1: to shave your hair, what would tell us what that
Speaker 1: was about. I feel like all of the pressure that
Speaker 1: I felt from like even my own peers, even my
Speaker 1: own black female peers, from society, for myself, looking at
Speaker 1: the media, looking at women who were deemed attractive or desirable,
Speaker 1: all of that pressure, I feel like I just wanted
Speaker 1: to just throw it in the trash, like I just
Speaker 1: wanted to be like, I don't want to hold this anymore.
Speaker 1: I can't hold this anymore. This is becoming too heavy,
Speaker 1: and I just want it gone. I just want to gone.
Speaker 1: I don't want to think about it. And you were
Speaker 1: so young when you made that decision. I did because
Speaker 1: it hurt very badly at a very young age to
Speaker 1: the enough, hurt enough to the point where I was like,
Speaker 1: this isn't worth it at a certain point to feel
Speaker 1: this pain, like I'd rather just not have it and
Speaker 1: not even be able to identify with anything that has
Speaker 1: to do with having hair at all. And I feel
Speaker 1: like it was more this second time that I cut
Speaker 1: my hair was more from a place of power and
Speaker 1: from a place of love and compassion. But back in
Speaker 1: the day it was more from a place of I
Speaker 1: can't handle this anymore. It was more from a place
Speaker 1: of anxiety. So is your music guiding that? Or is
Speaker 1: how you're feeling? Is how you're feeling is guiding your music? Oh,
Speaker 1: how I'm feeling guide every Definitely. That's why there's two
Speaker 1: years in between each of my albums, because I'm like,
Speaker 1: not feeling it. Not this year, not this year. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm feeling it this year. So this last time,
Speaker 1: with the last album that you put out, and you
Speaker 1: had Tyler just completely shave your head bald, What was that?
Speaker 1: What was the the process of coming to that? How
Speaker 1: did you come to that decision that you were going
Speaker 1: to number one, that you were going to shave your
Speaker 1: head and then you were going to shave it in
Speaker 1: that venue. Yeah, it took a read. It took a
Speaker 1: lot of preparation, obviously because it was and I guess
Speaker 1: we should talk a little twenty four hours in a
Speaker 1: box because people don't really know that story. Yeah. Me,
Speaker 1: Me and Tyler had been working on this album in
Speaker 1: New York at Electric Lady for about I want to say,
Speaker 1: two or three months, and then one day he was like,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be so crazy if we just did an
Speaker 1: anxiety attack just like in the place, like people could
Speaker 1: come watch it. And I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that could be super dope. But at first I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's a little risky. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But then the idea started
Speaker 1: forming and I was like, oh my goodness, like this
Speaker 1: could actually be really amazing, and so we split up.
Speaker 1: We split up an anxiety attack into eight different emotions,
Speaker 1: and the last emotions was like surrender and acceptance. And
Speaker 1: after going through all of those anger for three hours,
Speaker 1: sadness for three hours, numbness for three hours, like getting
Speaker 1: into these like insane emotions, I really felt like this.
Speaker 1: It was almost like I had generated it within myself
Speaker 1: and I didn't expect it to be this powerful like
Speaker 1: I but I felt that that deep acceptance of the good,
Speaker 1: the bad, the light, the dark, like I'm here for
Speaker 1: it and I'm gonna bring I'm gonna love it with
Speaker 1: a smile, I'm gonna everything. Everything is here. And I
Speaker 1: felt like that moment was so important for me to
Speaker 1: shape my head because it was almost like I'm letting
Speaker 1: go of my path who I was, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like I'm letting go of the things that
Speaker 1: I beat myself up about, I'm letting go of my anxieties,
Speaker 1: I'm letting go of my fears. And when that, when
Speaker 1: those locks hit the floor, it was like, oh, honey,
Speaker 1: I'm a different person today. So in that regard, I
Speaker 1: feel like my intentions were way purer this time. And
Speaker 1: I can really feel that now and even with the
Speaker 1: re growth of it coming back. Just like you were saying,
Speaker 1: there's a memory that comes along with tapping into it,
Speaker 1: and I feel every day and you have to pay attention.
Speaker 1: You can't just be like the memory is coming. No,
Speaker 1: you have to pay attention, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like it's a it's an internal look and every day
Speaker 1: checking in and that picture is just getting painted. And
Speaker 1: I'm so excited too to bring it into like myself
Speaker 1: and into action. Yeah. I just remember the feeling that
Speaker 1: I had when you started growing your dreads. It was
Speaker 1: just a feeling of the acceptance of yourself and I
Speaker 1: was just so I was like, she finally gets it.
Speaker 1: She finally is loving herself fully and understanding and believing
Speaker 1: that she's beautiful as she is. But this is even
Speaker 1: another step of that because because when I had when
Speaker 1: I started growing my dreads, it actually happened by accident,
Speaker 1: and I was afraid because I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: like I went to my mom, was accident. It was
Speaker 1: an accident. I I started dread started happening and I
Speaker 1: was like yeah, and I was like, like I was
Speaker 1: panicking and my and I went to my mom and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, what do I do?
Speaker 1: And she was like, let it be, honey. It was
Speaker 1: like grow the locks, mate, why not? And so I
Speaker 1: grew the locks, and through that I started having a
Speaker 1: different kind of acceptance. But now I feel like this
Speaker 1: is even deeper because I want to learn how to
Speaker 1: actually take care of my hair. I want to learn
Speaker 1: what it needs, I want to learn how to I
Speaker 1: just want to learn it. I want to learn it
Speaker 1: as a being in its own And I feel like
Speaker 1: with the locks, I was just like do whatever, like whatever.
Speaker 1: I didn't really try to take care of it, Like
Speaker 1: I didn't really try to, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I do. I have to tell you, Stacy, you might
Speaker 1: be able to speak on this. As I was doing
Speaker 1: some of my research for this, I came across a
Speaker 1: video on YouTube and I think it took place in Canada,
Speaker 1: the French side of Canada, and there was a woman
Speaker 1: who was teaching young girls and a young black girls
Speaker 1: in a salon how to take care of their hair.
Speaker 1: And I'm telling you, it was such a beautiful thing
Speaker 1: to watch these girls, because if you don't know how
Speaker 1: to love and take care of your hair, it's hair
Speaker 1: is just so important, especially yeah, and how we feel
Speaker 1: about ourselves. Can you guys speak on that. I actually
Speaker 1: think I saw that video because I think it was
Speaker 1: like in French and they translated it. It hits a
Speaker 1: little different because I have young daughters and I'm always
Speaker 1: trying to I know, no matter what I say or
Speaker 1: instilling them, they still have to feel it. They still
Speaker 1: have to they still have to feel it on their own.
Speaker 1: But equally, I do think that I don't stop saying
Speaker 1: it because they have to feel it. They just yet
Speaker 1: they have to see more images of themselves as beautiful.
Speaker 1: They have to learn how to manage and take care
Speaker 1: of their hair. And that was another reason. I have
Speaker 1: several reasons why I went natural, even that word. Jay
Speaker 1: and I were talking about going natural and they the
Speaker 1: hair that's going out of your head. But just even
Speaker 1: them seeing me like this and constantly saying this is beautiful,
Speaker 1: this is beautiful, or learning how to manage it is
Speaker 1: another thing. Because one of the girls in the salon
Speaker 1: that she was teaching got very emotional because she didn't know,
Speaker 1: she didn't know com it, she didn't know how to
Speaker 1: style it. It was just a little twist something that
Speaker 1: she could do to manage her hair, or hearing somebody
Speaker 1: say that she was beautiful because of her hair. So
Speaker 1: I do think that there's so many layers to help
Speaker 1: to reinforce it. And if we can do it from
Speaker 1: a young age coming up, it makes it a little easy.
Speaker 1: It's not going to be easy because it's coming from
Speaker 1: so many different directions, but we just need that representation.
Speaker 1: We need those voices to nurture and to let them
Speaker 1: know it's okay to just be. You don't have to
Speaker 1: be a cookie cutter. You don't have to be exactly
Speaker 1: like the person next to you. And that's like, want
Speaker 1: to repeat for me, you don't have As a matter
Speaker 1: of fact, we were having a conversation in the house
Speaker 1: my daughter. One of them started to develop a little
Speaker 1: bit earlier, so she would start to wear baggy clothes.
Speaker 1: She just did not want the attention. And I said,
Speaker 1: it's funny because depending on where you grow up, that's
Speaker 1: what you're going to want to look like. She's in
Speaker 1: school with more blacks and latinoz. So of course they
Speaker 1: want their hair to be looser, curls, They want to
Speaker 1: be a little bit more curvy. They don't want to
Speaker 1: be as tall. Isn't it crazy how you just want
Speaker 1: to be who we get accepted by who you're around.
Speaker 1: So if you're in a school with mostly Caucasian Indians,
Speaker 1: you want the characteristics they have. It's literally a process
Speaker 1: of this self discovery and knowing that you're beautiful in
Speaker 1: any environment. That is like the want to repeat in
Speaker 1: the house, no matter what environment you're in, What are
Speaker 1: you gonna do change every single time you get into
Speaker 1: a different environment, or just be yourself? Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you, ladies, how long have each
Speaker 1: of you been wearing your hair natural like this? Because
Speaker 1: I feel like we've gone in cycles. I feel like
Speaker 1: we went through a period in the sixties and seventies
Speaker 1: because I even went through it because I had long hair.
Speaker 1: So my my journey was getting my hair relaxed as
Speaker 1: I got older. But I went through the stage of
Speaker 1: wearing it like my Angela Davis afro. Yeah, but it
Speaker 1: was a process for me to get that, Like I
Speaker 1: had to wash my hair and and roll it, section
Speaker 1: it off and put it in all these little tiny
Speaker 1: rollers all over my head to get my hair tightening
Speaker 1: off to form the afro. So even that was a process.
Speaker 1: But I just kind of feel like, like, one minute,
Speaker 1: it's acceptable. Now we've gone to this, We've even the
Speaker 1: whole wee thing. I am struggling. I am struggling with
Speaker 1: it terribly. I know it's my own issue because I
Speaker 1: think that I put more on it than people actually,
Speaker 1: But in reality, gam I actually do think that all
Speaker 1: that you're putting on it is valid because the foundation
Speaker 1: of this issue is racism, just point blank white supremacy, capitalism, racism.
Speaker 1: So these things, it's hard to clean up the one
Speaker 1: little mess in one little section of the factory that
Speaker 1: capitalism is creating, then to go to the head of
Speaker 1: it and turn off the machine, if that makes any sense,
Speaker 1: Because I feel like this, these insecurities and these cultural
Speaker 1: hurts and traumas are so deep, but they're also just
Speaker 1: branches of bigger issues that need to be addressed. So
Speaker 1: if every black woman goes, we're not going to buy
Speaker 1: your products, We're not gonna wear your weaves, We're not
Speaker 1: gonna Now, there's so much money that these companies are
Speaker 1: losing because most of the people that are coming to
Speaker 1: buy this hair, that are coming to buy these products,
Speaker 1: that are coming to get the perms in the weaves
Speaker 1: are women of color, so it's a bigger I do
Speaker 1: think what you're putting on it is valid because it is.
Speaker 1: That's the foundation of it is on it already. But
Speaker 1: but is it that or is it simply to a
Speaker 1: lot of women that aren't thinking about it that deeply?
Speaker 1: Is it just a hairstyle. I've been in both seats,
Speaker 1: so safety both of them. We're both hair stylus. I'm
Speaker 1: an educator primarily now, but like as far as like
Speaker 1: the new your hair journey, I think it we right
Speaker 1: into what you're talking about Willow natural hair journeys. I
Speaker 1: mentioned before. My mother was hair Sotlarce. I was natural
Speaker 1: all the way, it's a ten, and then put a
Speaker 1: RELAXERU on my hair because I wanted to be more manageable.
Speaker 1: I wanted to fit in. And then at seventeen, I
Speaker 1: had this epiphany like I want my hair back because
Speaker 1: it was natural and long, and then I cut it
Speaker 1: off and so then there's this whole self journey. I've
Speaker 1: been on both endo that though, where I wanted to
Speaker 1: wear weeds and long hair for the reasons I'm more
Speaker 1: desirable by society, and so I have guilty of buying
Speaker 1: the Malaysian hair. It's killing me. It's killing me dead.
Speaker 1: It's killing me dead. I just that idea, it is understandable.
Speaker 1: But the idea of buying someone else's hair to put
Speaker 1: on my head, it's just absurd to me. And really,
Speaker 1: I don't I'm trying to talk about this without judgment,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to offend anybody, because at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, you need to do what makes
Speaker 1: you feel good at the end of the day. It's
Speaker 1: but just for me. For me, it was and even
Speaker 1: like I grew my hair out so that I could
Speaker 1: get braids at six or six, that's the first time
Speaker 1: in my life that I had ever had braids because
Speaker 1: it was going to require that I'm buying hair to
Speaker 1: braid into my head. But I felt like it was
Speaker 1: okay because at least I was going to have an
Speaker 1: afro centric style. I wasn't buying hair to have it
Speaker 1: flowing down my back. That's the thing. I think, it's
Speaker 1: the psychology that we have to ask questions about, right,
Speaker 1: what is the person's intention for doing it, because like
Speaker 1: weaves and wings and all of that, even straight hair,
Speaker 1: all of that existence. So there were the Nubian wings
Speaker 1: that were more afro styled in Egypt, and you had
Speaker 1: traight hair Wings two and he had braided hair. Because
Speaker 1: when you look at the hieroglyphs, there's a lot of bangs. Yes,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of straight hair. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: straight hair. So the question becomes like, why are we
Speaker 1: doing Is this because this is just me? This is
Speaker 1: an accessory. I just like doing this. This is protective
Speaker 1: or whatever? Or is it because like, deeply, I do
Speaker 1: not feel good about myself unless have this. And I
Speaker 1: think that's where it's about. Because if we have people
Speaker 1: doing this because I can't my hair the way that
Speaker 1: I feel about me, I don't like it until I
Speaker 1: must do this, then we're doing something that we need
Speaker 1: to threads. But if it's I'm just doing this because
Speaker 1: it's a style, yeah, because I've been on both sides
Speaker 1: of that is that's a good point. JA what I'm
Speaker 1: hearing too. It's a level of resistance. It's this is
Speaker 1: my stance. If you're making a bold statement too, when
Speaker 1: you say I'm not going to put this in my hair,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to add this. I'm this is not
Speaker 1: gonna make me pretty. This is not me. I'm you're
Speaker 1: taking a stand, so even your way, Gam, I feel
Speaker 1: like that is your statement of resistance. This is everything
Speaker 1: you stand for. To show your natural beauty, to accept
Speaker 1: your natural beauty. We all don't know, Gam, that's so stressful.
Speaker 1: It's so stressful trying to be trying to figure your
Speaker 1: own ship out. Oh my god, you just don't know
Speaker 1: why you're doing what you're doing. Going back to the
Speaker 1: intention behind everything, Why am I doing this? Am I
Speaker 1: doing this for fun, for fashion, for style? Or am
Speaker 1: I truly unhappy deeply with what I look like? Tell
Speaker 1: you what I'm unhappy with, unhappy with the gray that
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do. So Gam gonna keep dyeing her hair, now,
Speaker 1: that's that, because what I'm not gonna be is walking
Speaker 1: around here gray. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not ready.
Speaker 1: The grays could be a little disrespectful. My started coming,
Speaker 1: and I have this one that decided by herself, just
Speaker 1: by herself. She could have brought her friends and leaves
Speaker 1: and made it a patch. Yeah. I think one day, Yam.
Speaker 1: I think one day you're gonna you're gonna have the
Speaker 1: all gray main and you're just gonna be It's gonna
Speaker 1: be a shaman. You're just gonna be I definitely could
Speaker 1: see that, because that's another level of taking a bold
Speaker 1: stance as well. No, I wake up and I just
Speaker 1: don't need this anymore. What am I doing? This is
Speaker 1: too much work, This is too much, but just it.
Speaker 1: I just think it's it's a part of that that
Speaker 1: self discovery process as well. And that's a whole different
Speaker 1: conversation too, about what it means to stay beautiful. How
Speaker 1: is age perceived in in in media and society. I
Speaker 1: have this conversation with my mom all the time. It's
Speaker 1: literally turned into a great debate every single time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think bottom line that as more and more black
Speaker 1: women choose to look at their hair differently and choose
Speaker 1: to consciously have that relationship with their hair, it's chipping
Speaker 1: away at a system that doesn't want that, that's trying
Speaker 1: to keep us suppressed. The more that we see more
Speaker 1: people like us on magazines, on TV, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: it chips away at the very fabric of the racism.
Speaker 1: And obviously it's a huge iceberg. I'm not saying that,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, It's gonna be a very
Speaker 1: arduous and long process. But the act of an individual
Speaker 1: woman of color saying I love my hair and I'm
Speaker 1: going to I'm going to treat myself and my hair
Speaker 1: like it's sacred. That is that heat for the iceberg
Speaker 1: of racism. That is like, Oh, we're just gonna keep
Speaker 1: blowing heat at this iceberg, like the whole the premise
Speaker 1: of supremacy. So I wrote this piece called white supremacy
Speaker 1: is a fallacy. And I'm not saying that it's fake
Speaker 1: in the sense that people don't actually have dominance. That's
Speaker 1: not what I'm saying. But what I am saying is
Speaker 1: it requires a psychological agreement. And so as long as
Speaker 1: your people who believe and the idea of white power,
Speaker 1: white dominant, it exists. So what you're talking about, this
Speaker 1: idea that we decide no, actually, you're wrong. I'm beautiful
Speaker 1: the way that I am. It does this energetic shift
Speaker 1: and it challenges this system. So this whole system is
Speaker 1: reliant on our belief. It is reliant on us agreeing
Speaker 1: to suppression. We have to agree to it. And that's
Speaker 1: a part of the conversation that we don't talk about
Speaker 1: as much. We do talk a lot about white dominance.
Speaker 1: It's real. I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: there's another part of the conversation that we need to
Speaker 1: have that I think what you just brought up will
Speaker 1: it is really critical. We do have to start attacking
Speaker 1: like this piece of self love and stuff. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like a lastional spiritual piece that says, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: the whole world wants to look like me. Why don't
Speaker 1: I want to look like me? What happens when I do? Stacy,
Speaker 1: you and I were talking just a second ago without
Speaker 1: the fact that as this natural hair movement started to
Speaker 1: bowl again, right, like we're seeing another bull another way. Right,
Speaker 1: those are hand in hand. You don't have one. We
Speaker 1: have together. The more that we love ourselves and accept ourselves,
Speaker 1: the more that we recognize our value, the more that
Speaker 1: we see that we are born free, not becoming free.
Speaker 1: So when you realize that you are born free, you
Speaker 1: are already free, you will become indignant. You become our issues,
Speaker 1: and that shifts the gay and that is what people
Speaker 1: are afraid. This is the reason why cutting hair off
Speaker 1: and telling people that they're ugly and saying that insirable
Speaker 1: matters so much. If you don't believe that you act
Speaker 1: differently in the fare that this suppression has created. And
Speaker 1: so long as we keep evolving in this way and
Speaker 1: loving ourselves in this way, this whole system falls that.
Speaker 1: While we're talking, that was that was really really important, Jay,
Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing that. I really appreciate that. The thing is,
Speaker 1: as we're talking, like my spirit is bubbling up a
Speaker 1: little bit because we accept it, and then we believe
Speaker 1: a new truth about ourselves. But then there's the wall
Speaker 1: that we often hit when there's the rejection and when
Speaker 1: there's trauma, and when there's the punishment that I keep
Speaker 1: saying the punishment versus the reward. So what is it? Boys?
Speaker 1: Is another level of education that Okay, so someone told
Speaker 1: me that I'm not beautiful, but I believe I am.
Speaker 1: Someone told me that I'm not smart, but I believe
Speaker 1: I am. Someone told me that I would never make it,
Speaker 1: but I know I can. And then you get the
Speaker 1: rejection from let's just say those three areas. What is
Speaker 1: that next step? Because most people will say, oh, didn't
Speaker 1: like it. It's not true. So and so didn't accept me,
Speaker 1: so it must be wrong. Thanks, I'm ugly, so it
Speaker 1: must be that. So what is that next step? You
Speaker 1: believe it right, because we're trying to dismantle this whole
Speaker 1: feel like it's commune city. I was about to say,
Speaker 1: because you need to hook up with the other girl
Speaker 1: who said girl this and this and I know this,
Speaker 1: but we need to link up, and you both are
Speaker 1: like okay. So, and it's developing your support system, your
Speaker 1: own village and of like minded people and women who
Speaker 1: have the same struggles that you have and who are
Speaker 1: trying to overcome, who are trying to overcome them through
Speaker 1: compassion and through self acceptance, and that community when you
Speaker 1: can step together, I feel like that's very important. That's powerful.
Speaker 1: So that's really where I wanted to go with it, like,
Speaker 1: all right, we believe it, we're dismantling it, but how
Speaker 1: can we keep it strong and keep their momentum going.
Speaker 1: The girl found to that support and that community because
Speaker 1: that trauma is real and we know it, yes away
Speaker 1: so easily, Stacy, you have talked about it before you
Speaker 1: And as far as representation representation and companies represent representation
Speaker 1: and corporate world's representation on the magazine covers all of that.
Speaker 1: We need to see ourselves as well, arm, arm and
Speaker 1: arm somebody in every single and even what we're doing
Speaker 1: right now, with all of us is away, going of
Speaker 1: us going, oh, we are armed in this concept and
Speaker 1: and we're going to tell the world what we think
Speaker 1: about this. We're gonna give them a little piece of
Speaker 1: our minds, and we're not talking down the story. Share
Speaker 1: is critical because I think the other thing is like,
Speaker 1: so many of our stories get lost that sometimes we
Speaker 1: believe we're the only one. So not just in the moment,
Speaker 1: but this hair movement has gone on for it all.
Speaker 1: When you go back to people who were running away
Speaker 1: from slavery, the posters would often note that these people
Speaker 1: have gone wayward with their hair, and so people who
Speaker 1: are making statements even then about how they wanted to
Speaker 1: be seen and what freedom meant. So this is a
Speaker 1: long movement. There there are bones of courts. Wait, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I just I want to make sure that I heard
Speaker 1: you correctly, because that blew my mind. So runaway slaves
Speaker 1: would be put on posters and they'd be like, if
Speaker 1: you see this black person with crazy hair, you need
Speaker 1: to bring them back to me. Yeah, So there's evidence
Speaker 1: of people who were running away making the choice. And
Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, there is a name I
Speaker 1: wanted to share. Hopefully I can find it in time
Speaker 1: of this woman, Francis Harper. Francis Harper, she's an author
Speaker 1: who wore core roles. This is eighteen six seven mh.
Speaker 1: So like this movement and this Lee Tyson being one
Speaker 1: of the first to wear core roles on TV. So
Speaker 1: like there's the icons. The pop culture has a big
Speaker 1: part of this movement too, and I think it's important
Speaker 1: that we name those folks and share those stories. So
Speaker 1: because that's a part of the community to right, like
Speaker 1: we have to be able to see ourselves of course,
Speaker 1: and also share those stories over and over. You're not
Speaker 1: the only one. You're not the first. This is a
Speaker 1: long movement, and so when we say like it takes
Speaker 1: a long time, I started pushing back on that. I
Speaker 1: was like, no, we're here, we're we're free, We're ready.
Speaker 1: It's time. We've been doing this, it's overdue. We are
Speaker 1: ready now naming that and naming those names and calling
Speaker 1: them forwards and celebrating them. Brandy, I need to call
Speaker 1: her app because like because when she was wearing braids.
Speaker 1: Remember I don't know if you'll remember when she did Cinderella,
Speaker 1: and that was a big deal because he's the first
Speaker 1: las Cinderella on TV and she wore braids. And so
Speaker 1: if those things matter and we need to remember them
Speaker 1: and name them and call them out. Or you wore
Speaker 1: locks to the was it Brandy? Was it the Crimins?
Speaker 1: It was a big ward remember that? And it was
Speaker 1: likeeen ish or something like that. It was a bigger worship.
Speaker 1: It was huge. And so that those moments we have
Speaker 1: to remember them and name them because that is a
Speaker 1: part of building this community, of remembering the fact that
Speaker 1: we have been doing this. We are here here, y'all
Speaker 1: just gotta accepted. Hello. Hello, that's perfect, all right. So
Speaker 1: I want to talk briefly about the Crown Act. And
Speaker 1: this is a law that prohibits the discrimination against someone
Speaker 1: for wearing their hair natural or in protective styles like locks, notts, twists,
Speaker 1: and braids. Listen the fact that there's still in effect.
Speaker 1: It just became law. It's this is recent. It just
Speaker 1: became law. Was first introduced in California in January of
Speaker 1: nine and signed into law on July three, nineteen and
Speaker 1: so it's currently only illegal to discriminate against black people
Speaker 1: and or people of color in their hair in seven states,
Speaker 1: and those states being California, Washington, Colorado, New York, New Jersey, Virginia,
Speaker 1: and Maryland. So you can fire someone from wearing braids
Speaker 1: to work? Yes, how am I supposed to wear my head?
Speaker 1: How much? If I can't wear it in the knots,
Speaker 1: if I can't wear it in braids, if I can't
Speaker 1: wear it in locks, then I should. Yeah, it's insane.
Speaker 1: It's insane that we have to get permission handle that.
Speaker 1: Because I'm speechless. This goes back to punishment and rewards,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So, no matter how much
Speaker 1: you try to go around it, you want to still
Speaker 1: be faced with it. It's not just in the workplace.
Speaker 1: It's in schools too, as far as their uniform as
Speaker 1: far as looking professional, as far as clean or kept.
Speaker 1: Why is this an issue that I cannot be my myself?
Speaker 1: So it further feeds into that narrative of not being
Speaker 1: your authentic self or just having to do what you
Speaker 1: have to do to survive to fit in. I was
Speaker 1: telling I don't know if it was who I was
Speaker 1: was falling a jay. I was basically telling them about
Speaker 1: an experience that I had as an up and coming stylist.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a celebrity, stylist honey, because my
Speaker 1: parents did not want me to do hair. So I'm
Speaker 1: just like, if I'm gonna do it, I need to
Speaker 1: do whatever the highest thing is. Anyway, So I end
Speaker 1: up in this salon, this big New York City salon
Speaker 1: which I will not name, and I got hired. There
Speaker 1: was a big deal. It was predominantly Caucasian salon. When
Speaker 1: I got hired, I was one of two or three
Speaker 1: or maybe two. And I got hired. I wasn't even
Speaker 1: thinking about my skin color at that time. I just
Speaker 1: wanted to get this job. I wanted to get to
Speaker 1: fashion Week so bad. I just wanted to I just
Speaker 1: wanted it for so bad. So anyway, I got the interview,
Speaker 1: I got hired, and they I went to the interview
Speaker 1: with straight here, a straight pixie cut. They loved it.
Speaker 1: They loved me. And on Monday, when I showed up
Speaker 1: for training, I had brains. Let me give you the
Speaker 1: story behind that. Quickly, I got the braids because I
Speaker 1: didn't want to mess up brain. For us, it's low maintenance.
Speaker 1: We can go to the gym on the vacation with whatever.
Speaker 1: So I got the braids as something to help me.
Speaker 1: So I wouldn't be late and I didn't have to
Speaker 1: fuss about my hair child. I got to work on Monday.
Speaker 1: You would have thought they saw a casper to go.
Speaker 1: They told me I had to take it out if
Speaker 1: I wanted to work there because that was not a
Speaker 1: part of their address code. Back then, I didn't know
Speaker 1: any better. Again, bravo, my I want to get to
Speaker 1: fashion Week, I want to get backstage. I want to
Speaker 1: do these things. So it took me twelve more or
Speaker 1: more hours to get the braids in, and it took
Speaker 1: me six hours to take them out. But the point
Speaker 1: is I took them out. I didn't have anybody or
Speaker 1: any reason in my mind to think it was wrong.
Speaker 1: It was just like, this is what you have to do.
Speaker 1: Back forward to with all of this media of coverage,
Speaker 1: we know that this is absurd, this isolation, This is
Speaker 1: a violation of your rights. I was violated. And when
Speaker 1: I said that story, so many people had similar situations
Speaker 1: where they had to change their hair for to get
Speaker 1: a job, okay, to get a job interview. They would
Speaker 1: wear it like this, but two they had to wear
Speaker 1: you know, something that was more acceptable. I absolutely stand
Speaker 1: for the Crown Act. I've signed a petition. Yes, I
Speaker 1: signed a petition as well. The fact that is happening
Speaker 1: with kids. You remember the case of the wrestler. I
Speaker 1: can't remember what state it was, but the wrestler and
Speaker 1: the coach cut off his dreads during the match. I
Speaker 1: was like, what dress code? So they had a uniform
Speaker 1: for the sport. They had to either have their hair
Speaker 1: pulled back or something like that in order to be
Speaker 1: a part of dress code and the uniform. And he
Speaker 1: was about to be disqualified. And they looked so hard
Speaker 1: as athletes to get to that point. Get it. It's
Speaker 1: just it's ridiculous, this four seeing us two once again
Speaker 1: assimilate into their standards of beauty. But the idea in
Speaker 1: that there has to be a law to prevent us
Speaker 1: from being fired. Everybody bearing our hair in its natural state,
Speaker 1: everyone should sign. And I think we'll try to pose
Speaker 1: something like a link where you can go and sign
Speaker 1: the petition for supporting the Crown Act. That is extremely important. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm surprised. I'm surprised that black people haven't just been like,
Speaker 1: you know what, we're gonna We're just gonna go somewhere else.
Speaker 1: We're all of us, We're gonna we're all gonna, we're
Speaker 1: all gonna come together and we're just gonna go somewhere
Speaker 1: else because this no okay, we I hate to interrupt
Speaker 1: the conversation, ladies. I want you to stay right there,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately will All has to leave. So I just
Speaker 1: want to ask you, Will Out, do you have any
Speaker 1: last words on this topic that you want to share
Speaker 1: before you make your exit? Yes? I just want to say,
Speaker 1: not just for black people and not just for black women,
Speaker 1: but when a human individual decides to accept themselves with
Speaker 1: no boundaries and no limits, that challenges every system, every system,
Speaker 1: and probably many people around them. Yeah, it challenges everything
Speaker 1: that the modern way of looking at human life has created.
Speaker 1: And I'm ready for for the challenge. And I'm ready.
Speaker 1: I'm ready for the challenge to just keep growing and
Speaker 1: to keep going and for us to create something better
Speaker 1: and something different. That's amazing you. Okay. So I wanted
Speaker 1: to do our rapid fire questions with you. Okay, So
Speaker 1: the first one is really simple, what books are you
Speaker 1: currently reading? So? I just finished the last book of
Speaker 1: the Clan of the Cave Bear series. There's six books. Okay,
Speaker 1: you've been telling me about that series Okay, I have
Speaker 1: such a love and such a fascination about prehistorical human dynamics.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I think it's I think it's
Speaker 1: very interesting and amazing. And these six books changed my
Speaker 1: life forever. Gene m Owl, You'll always be in my heart.
Speaker 1: You're an amazing author. You're probably not listening to this
Speaker 1: right now, but I love you so much. Okay. And
Speaker 1: what's one thing that you want to get off your
Speaker 1: chest about any topic? One thing you want to get
Speaker 1: off your chest? Oh, one thing I want to get
Speaker 1: off my chest. I have been feeling recently, specifically my generation,
Speaker 1: we spend so much time looking at what's happening externally
Speaker 1: in the world and the problems that are happening externally
Speaker 1: in the world that I feel like, solely but surely
Speaker 1: we're losing Remember when we were talking about that self study.
Speaker 1: I feel like we're losing the ability but also the
Speaker 1: focus focus exactly, the focus to observe our inner world
Speaker 1: in such a way that confusion that we're always feeling
Speaker 1: about this uncertainty that we're getting from social media or
Speaker 1: we're getting from whatever it is, that inner foundation of
Speaker 1: self love and self knowledge that those emotions can sit
Speaker 1: on top of that and not weigh us down into
Speaker 1: this dark place that we feel like we can't get
Speaker 1: out of. That. I see a lot of my peers
Speaker 1: getting into, especially during quarantine. Yeah that was long, but yeah,
Speaker 1: so maybe it's more about put down the phone and
Speaker 1: start doing something internal, internal work. Yeah, okay. And the
Speaker 1: last thing, what's a motto that you live by? Who
Speaker 1: model that I live by? Wow? The darkness and the
Speaker 1: light are equally beautiful m and accept them both with compassion.
Speaker 1: That's how I want to live my life. And may
Speaker 1: you have it. Words of wisdom from my baby girl.
Speaker 1: The whole made it to the earth. Oh, thank you
Speaker 1: so much ladies for joining me. This was an excellent conversation.
Speaker 1: Thank you jay Less Shay, thank you Stacy sis Eran,
Speaker 1: Thank you Willow for joining us on this conversation. Tell
Speaker 1: us where people can find you on social media. I'll
Speaker 1: sart up. I say thank you for having me. This
Speaker 1: has been an on and a lot of fun. If
Speaker 1: anyone wants to continue um talking with me at any point,
Speaker 1: you can find me on my website Javid Shad dot com,
Speaker 1: where I continue with freedom activision of all sorts, perfect
Speaker 1: and Stacy I would concur. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: giving me the opportunity to use my voice, and if
Speaker 1: you want to continue the conversation with me, I'm offering
Speaker 1: education to hairstylists and everyday women about how to manage
Speaker 1: and maintain highly textured hair. You can find me at
Speaker 1: Stacey ciseron dot com. Thank you so much. Ladies, like Willow,
Speaker 1: we all have our own hair story. It's our role
Speaker 1: to teach our children the history they won't learn in school,
Speaker 1: so they develop a sense of pride about themselves and
Speaker 1: their culture. We are there to support, guide and give
Speaker 1: them a safe place to land because the world is
Speaker 1: a harsh critic. Prayerfully, however they choose to rocket, our
Speaker 1: children will love themselves fully and unapologetically, including their hair. Tomorrow,
Speaker 1: I'll continue my discussion on hair, so check back for
Speaker 1: part two. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, be sure
Speaker 1: to rate and review. Follow me on my Instagram at
Speaker 1: Gammy Norris to share with me your thoughts on the episode.
Speaker 1: I'm here, I'm talking, and I'm listening. As always, stay great,
Speaker 1: We all positively. Gam is produced by Westbrook Audio Executive
Speaker 1: producers Adrian Banfield, Norris, Jada Pinkett Smith, Amanda Brown and
Speaker 1: Fallon Jethro Co executive producer sim Hoti, editor and mixer
Speaker 1: Calvin Bayliff. Positively gam is in partnership with Art Nineteens