WEBVTT - What If Everything You Know About Health Is Wrong? | Shawn Baker 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.040 In medical school, they actually tell you, like half the 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:03.800 stuff we're teaching now is wrong. We just don't know 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:05.600 which happen it is. So I mean that's built in 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:08.080 you already kind of accept that. We don't have a 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:10.680 lot of data on people just consuming me. We have 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.880 a few studies out there, but there's been i mean, gosh, 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:18.919 almost no evidence it suggests anyone's developing any significant vitument deficiencies. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:20.880 And Harvard study that came out in twenty twenty one 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.279 they specifically looked at that they didn't find any evidence 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:25.480 of nutrient deficiencies. 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.320 You know, I often say that everything you've learned is wrong, 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:31.520 and when it comes to the world of well, almost everything. 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:33.400 That's why I say almost everything that is wrong. Now 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.440 we typically talk about finance and what you've learned about money, 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.400 but of course what you've learned about relationships and even 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.280 your health is wrong. I'm sitting down with doctor Sean Baker. 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:47.400 He's a multi sport, world record setting athlete, physician and 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:50.960 author of The Carnivore Diety. You're opening clinics helping people. 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:53.880 There's obviously the weight loss industry is massive. There's a 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:55.560 lot of money there, so it doesn't seem like it's 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:56.560 just about the money. 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.000 I think there's just much more profit in keeping people 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.320 relatively sick, and then this doing this sort of what 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:04.600 we call disease management. 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:06.360 Maybe it was sort of having this one foot in, 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.800 one foot out where I do eat all that fat, 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.319 but I'm also eating the garbage, and so then maybe 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:12.399 combined it's bad. 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.520 If you get leaner and leaner, the cholesterol goes up. 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:18.480 If you're obese, your cholesterol will go down. And so 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.880 the question is is that actually harmful? I'd say the 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:26.039 real answer is, Sehn, thanks for joining me. Hey, Mark, 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:27.040 appreciate you having me on. 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:29.360 Sorry to make you weight. We were waiting for a 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:30.240 president Trump today. 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:31.399 We'll cut on some slack. 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:33.360 He held us up a little bit. We'll cut that 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:39.120 guy some slack. What are the world records setting? 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:43.360 Oh yeah, so, I mean I had world records in powerlifting, 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:47.319 so I was. I was a drug free, pretty decent deadlifter. 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:49.840 I lifted three hundred and fifty kilos seven and seventy 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.400 two pounds. You know, quite a few years ago, when 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.160 I was a little younger, I did the Highland Games, 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.680 which is kind of an interesting sports. The Scottish games 0:01:57.680 --> 0:01:59.800 where you put on a kilt and you throw heavy things, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.800 really big telephone polls, cabers, and various other events. I 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.040 won a world championship and set a world record, and 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:11.000 that then I went on to competitive rowing, you know, uh, 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:15.200 and set I think six or seven American records and 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.799 these are age group records and several world records, and 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:20.960 in fact fact, I'll probably break some more of them 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.120 in the next couple of weeks training for that. Yeah. 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.560 Good Now, As I said, I often say on my videos, 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:30.400 everything you've learned is wrong. My sister was an er doctor, 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:32.320 and I remember when she got out of medical school. 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.040 She came home and, you know, forget all your vitamins, 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:37.200 forget all that, just take the antibiotics, and she was 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:39.760 just like in this like tunnel. A couple of years ago, 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:41.960 she was forced to leave California because she didn't want 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.680 to go along with the program in California. She went 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.799 to a functional medicine clinic in Houston, and like, wow, 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.160 learn for the first time you can heal people. And 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:55.120 I realized sort of in the world of physicians as well, 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.160 like probably a lot of what you learned was wrong 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:58.639 and in order for you to learn the other way. 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:00.480 You sort of maybe have to go unl learning that 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:02.760 and learn some new stuff. I'm curious sort of like 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:04.720 how you went from that path from being an MD, 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.040 Like what was that wake up moment that caused you 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:07.679 go figure that. 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:09.720 Yeah, you know, in medical school they actually tell you 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:11.400 like half the stuff we're teaching now is wrong. We 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:12.800 just don't know which half it is. So I mean 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.480 that's built in you already kind of accept that, but 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.640 then you know, you kind of go along. And really 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.800 the moment for me was was that showed me that 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:22.800 the real problems we have with the healthcare system was 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.400 the fact that we had a situation and you know, 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:27.600 my background is orthopedic surgery, so I would do knee 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.320 replacements and hip replacements, fixed broken bones and whatnot, and 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:33.760 we were as a community, you know, struggling with the 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.960 fact that we had so many obese patients and they 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.920 were having greater complication rates after surgeries, particularly after knee replacements, 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:43.640 and so we kind of as a collective community said, hey, 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:45.680 we got to get these people to lose weight prior 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:47.560 to doing the surgery, and they didn't really give you 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:49.520 a framework on how to do that. Some of them 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:53.120 got sent to bariatric surgeons for gas to bypass. 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:53.080 Some of them. 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.800 You know, we you know, whatever, diet exercise, eat more, 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.480 you know, eat less, move more type of stuff. And 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:00.760 I just at that time it happened to be that 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:02.920 I was doing a very low carb diet and kithogenic 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.400 dit at the time, and so I said, this was 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.960 twenty twelve, something like twelve, twenty thirteen, and at that 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.440 point I said, well, I'm gonna try to some of 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:15.920 my patients. And you know, not all the patients would 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:17.800 do it. In fact, probably maybe twenty percent would actually 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.120 do it, but a significant significant percentage of ones that 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:25.599 would actually go on a diet and legitimately do it 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.159 would very often report to me that their their knee 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.960 pain was gone, which I thought was really interesting because 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:33.560 they were the reason I was seeing it was for 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.360 a knee replace because they were in horrible knee pain. 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.880 So I started canceling surgeries, and then I thought it 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.240 was pretty cool that that was happening. I brought this 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.599 to the sort of the hospital administration. I said, hey, guys, 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:46.560 I'd like to spend you know, half day week kind 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.799 of doing some lifestyle diet counseling and I was flat 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:52.760 out told basically, no, you can't do that, and that 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.240 that was my wake up call that wait a minute, 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.960 this is not about what's best for the patients, what's 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.800 best for the bottom line, which you don't businesses or 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:02.080 what you know, they do what they need to do 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.920 to make money. But it made me realize that what 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:09.600 I learned about how to treat disease and take care 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.279 of patients in medical school was maybe not the most 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.440 effective way or maybe not the best way, and so 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.200 I sort of went down this rabbit hole of nutrition 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.160 and now, guys, for the last us eight or nine 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.159 years now, I've been sort of seeing the stuff evolve. 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.400 And I mean every day I see people that whether 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:30.720 it's joint pain or mental health disorders like depression, bipolar disorder, 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.800 autoimmune diseases, we're just putting them in a remission left 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.000 and right. And that's what sort of prompted me to 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:40.960 found a company called Rivero that you know, we're licensed 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.960 in all fifty states and we have physicians across the 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.960 nation that take people in deal with the nutrition in 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:49.960 their lifestyle, get them off madge, and then we have 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.200 all the support that goes with it. That's required because 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.440 the healthcare system, you don't have a lot of support. 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.640 If you want to make a life lifestyle intervention. If 0:05:57.680 --> 0:05:59.839 I want to do surgery in somebody, I've got a 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.239 multimillion dollar operating room, I've got radiology suites, I've got 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.800 you know labs, I've got physical therapy. I've got you 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.720 know everything. I need millions and millions of dollars of resource. 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:13.520 But if I say, hey, let's work on this person's lifestyle, sleep, exercise, nutrition, 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.120 so on and so forth, you got zero nothing. 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.400 So now the obvious thing seems that because there's no 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:23.240 money in that. So you mentioned earlier, well, we have 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.119 a business, we want to do surgery, So the obvious 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.680 thing seems to be the money. However, you're opening clinics 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.840 helping people. There's obviously the weight loss industry is massive. 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:32.479 There's a lot of money there. So it doesn't seem 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:34.919 like it's just about the money. I mean, why do 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:38.640 you think there's just not support, Because there's obviously weight 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:42.160 loss support, right, Jenny Craig or whatever. Right, there's weight watchers, 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.440 there's plenty of that, but there's not for you know, 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.560 more traditional or type of health. 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.080 Yeah, So I mean there is money in that. And 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.839 I think there's there's cost savings. Certainly, if you're a 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.200 company in thirty percent of your expenses are going to 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.120 play for your pay for employees, medical benefits. I mean 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.919 saving that is actually you know, a net you know, 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:06.000 profit to you. I think there's just much more profit 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.120 in keeping people relatively sick. And then this doing this 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:13.000 sort of what we call disease management. Now, disease management 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:16.440 was a term that came into vogue maybe twenty years ago. 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:18.440 I remember when I started medicine, I hadn't heard the 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.480 term disease management. Then they started talking disease men, what 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.800 is disease management? Oh, that means we're just going to 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.560 keep these people in a state of illness and manage 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.480 their symptom ya medication. And that's really the business model 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:33.240 that's gone forward. It's very profitable, you know. I mean 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.920 Goldman Sachs a few year Agoes a few years ago 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:38.760 was asked the question is it profitable to cure disease? 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.560 And resultingly they said, no, it's not. It doesn't make 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.600 sense business wise. And so, you know, I think that's 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:47.800 the problem that we have in general, is we have 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:51.600 a sick population, which to anyone that's been outside can 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:53.400 see that. I mean, anybody's been on the earth for 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:56.360 longer than twenty or thirty years now sees that we've 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:03.720 got just more and more sick, depressed, you know, dependent population. 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.080 Yeah. Now, in the last probably two years, I have 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:09.720 two good friends of mine that were both really big, 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:14.480 have gone through gastric bypass. Both lost a ton of weight, 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.080 like an enormous amount of weight. One of them is 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.520 starting to put the weight back on. They're the ones 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.040 doing pretty good. However, when I look at what they're 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.280 eating afterwards, like they're still eating bags of chips and 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.440 they're still drinking sodas. So even in a type of 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.160 deal where they've gotten the money, they've done the done 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.040 the surgery, you would think they would at least still 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.440 want them to maintain what they've gave them. Otherwise maybe 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:38.079 they're a failure. 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:40.760 Well, they don't give them the tools to do that's 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.640 a problem. I mean for some people it's really challenging. 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:45.880 I mean they literally have to change the relationship with food. 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.880 And when anyone comes to me and talks about weight loss, 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:50.840 I said, don't worry about that right now, We've got 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:54.200 to fix your food addiction or whatever is causing you 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:55.920 to continue to do this, because you can. Anybody can 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.640 lose weight on any diet for a short period of time. 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:02.960 It's what happens Coli restrictions. Of course, it works for 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.040 a while until you can't do it anymore. And so 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.840 what this sort of option does is it provides people 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.800 not only a sense of society, but actual nursement because 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.040 there are a lot of obese people out there that 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.600 are at although they're obese, they're similar at the same time, 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.120 they are malnourished because they just don't have the proper nutrition. 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.840 If you don't start feeding yourselves appropriately, then it's so 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.280 easy to constantly be hungry and constantly fall prey to 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:34.240 the food industry, which is another industry that has very 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:38.000 clearly designed food to be addictive as possible, you know, 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.839 very profitable, very addictive. I mean, I've talked of food 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:42.880 chemist that have worked for these companies and they are, 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:44.560 you know, at the end of their career they feel 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:46.840 guilty about the fact that they their job literally was 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.079 to addict people to these foods and they've clearly done 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:50.800 that successfully. 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:54.839 Yeah, you know, would you say that, do you think 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:58.080 it's accurate? To say that all diets, like diet plans 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.320 that you would go on Cali restriction diets, are really 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.240 about eating fake food. And if all you ate was 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:05.839 real food, you wouldn't have to go on those diaplans. 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:10.440 Well, you know, if we think about what food was 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:13.160 available to the average human not not that long ago, 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.480 one hundred hundred fifty years ago, and we didn't have 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:18.520 these these obesity epidemics. You know, we don't have the 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.840 ten thousand items that we have in the in the 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:26.120 grocery store today. We don't have you know, all of 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.840 the ingredients we're not even sure why. I mean, they're 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:30.560 there to keep it on the shelf life and to 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.400 make people eat them more. So I think if most 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.200 people would give up that stuff, we would see significant benefits. 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:40.000 You know, it's interesting. There's a guy from Tufts University, 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:44.959 Darius Mosafarian, who some people remember. He published a study 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:48.640 showing that lucky Charms was arguably better than beef, which 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.840 is a nons right, right, But one of the things 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.080 he hasn't pointed out, which I think is interesting, is 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:58.360 that from about nineteen sixty to nineteteen nineties two thousand eight, 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.600 we ate significantly more calorie and that seems to explain 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.240 the epidemic of obesity. But since that time, our color 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.920 consumption really hasn't increased so much, but we still are 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.839 getting fatter and fatter as a nation. And why is that. Well, 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.439 part of it has to do with the increasingly higher 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.200 percentage of ultra processing that occurs, and so when that 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.240 food is turned into powder, it's just absorbed in a 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:22.280 very different way than what we're designed for. And so 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:24.960 when you turn all this food into powder, it's absorbed 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.079 much more quickly. And normally there's something called our microbiome, 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.280 a little bacteria that live in our gut, that would 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.960 consume some of that, but if it's already powder, it 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.120 gets absorbed very rapidly, very high up in our digestive track, 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.280 before those things even have a chance to act on it. 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:40.080 So even though we're eating the same number of calories, 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.920 we're actually absorbing more calories and that goes to the 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.440 quality of the food. So if you're eating steak and eggs, 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.360 that's pretty old fashioned food. I mean, that's been around 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:53.079 since human beings have around, basically, and it's it's absorbed 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.679 and digested and metabolized in a way that's consistent of 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:58.760 how we're designed or how we evolve, or however you 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:00.520 want to come in phrase that. 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.800 Yeah, yeah, And if you're just eating steak and eggs, 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.960 then you feel so satiated, then you get full faster, 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:08.760 and it's very hard to over eat. We were talking 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:10.880 earlier and I was saying that, right lately, I've just 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.640 been eating just meat and I'm having problems gettingenough calories. 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.160 That that is an issue. That's one of the problems 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:18.280 I say with this is people often end up under eating. 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:20.560 And you know, I mean, that's a good problem for 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.680 to have for some people, but it can be a 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:24.560 problem for other people that they that they don't eat 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.240 enough and then they have problems with fatigue and some 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:31.360 other issues that occur. So it does take some getting 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:32.200 used to for sure. 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:37.040 Now I've been into weightlifting, bodybuilding, health supplements, whatever for 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:39.280 a good majority of my life now at this point, 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.560 and I thought I had heard of everything and every diet. 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:46.200 And it was at a bitcoin meeting, a conference probably 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:51.439 twenty nineteen. It was a safety and he told me 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:53.679 about the carnivore diet and I was like, what, like 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:55.640 that makes no sense, And I thought I knew a 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:57.960 lot about diet, like, I've never heard of that. Don't 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.040 we need vegetables? You know, that's probably the most common 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:03.719 thing I'd hear. Or number two would be, you know, 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:07.040 now red meat has been sort of vilified. So I 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.760 guess let's address those two things talking about on the 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.959 carnivore diet. Why has red meat been vilified? And maybe 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.120 why is it actually not such a bad game for Yeah, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.520 so I mean, can it be in the wrong consumption? 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.880 Yeah, The vilification of red meat goes back at least 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.320 one hundred years. I mean, if we look at the 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.959 creation of the American Dietetics Association, which was founded back 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.160 in nineteen seventeen by a gal by the name of 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:33.400 Lenna Cooper. She was a Seventh Day Adventist, very much 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:40.079 aligned with our philosophy that red meat was driving sinfulness, lust, masturbation, 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.280 all the bad things were associated with that. So she 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.760 very you know, pointly was in favor of more of 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.560 a vegetarian diet. So that was a very foundation of 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.440 nutrition science in this country and thus most of the 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.839 Western world. And you know, they have gone on the 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.880 Seventh Day Adventist to populate significant percentage is of the 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.600 higher crey of the nutrition sciences, and so the studies 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.839 have always kind of started with that bias. And now, 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:12.880 you know, what we see clearly is when you consume meat, milk, eggs, 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.400 dairy and things like that, like you mentioned, you're very satiated, 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:20.040 you don't consume those other foods. And so by vilifying 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.640 those things, now there's a whole there's a gap in 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.720 your your hunger level. So what do you fill it with? Well, 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.600 we typically fill it with ultra processed foods. I mean, 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:30.240 that's just clearly what happens. You can say, oh, you're 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.240 gonna everyody's gonna eat beans and celery. That doesn't that's 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.320 not what actually happens. We know study after study has 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:37.960 shown that the more plant based you go, the more 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.080 you tend to eat these ultra process foods. And the 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.400 companies that produce us know that. They clearly know that. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.800 So if they continue to vilify meat, people eat less 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:47.520 of it. What do they replace it with, Well, they 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.200 replace it with this cheap, ultra process highly profitable foods. 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.240 And so that's part of it. I mean, the way 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.520 the science is done, like you know, every single and 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.280 this is most of nutrition, Most of nutrition depends on 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.160 these nutritional demiologic studies where they you know, they'll they'll 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.240 look at a you know, one hundred thousand people, they'll 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:07.160 send out a food frequency questionnaire, ask them, you know, 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.200 how much red meat did gat? How much chicken, and 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.080 how much eggs? How much fruit and vegetables. And first 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:16.160 of all, it is horribly horribly plagued by recall bias. 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:17.880 You don't remember. I can't if I asked you what 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:19.840 you ate five for the last five years, how many 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.160 servings of eggs you ate? You, you wouldn't be able 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.440 to accurately did so, first of all, we have very 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.960 very bad information. But then the way they define red meat, well, 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.880 you know, I literally just posted about this two days ago. 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.240 Every almost every food frequency question the way they define 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.440 beef in particular, beef is defined as steaks, you know, 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:45.960 roast hamburgers, lasagna, pizza, it's how you know, those things 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.440 are considered to be beef. And wait a minute, it's 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.280 a pizza. Yeah, but it's got well, it doesn't matter, 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.480 it's still considerable. So we have those horrible confounders in there, 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.600 and so we don't have data, at least, you know, 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.640 large scale data on people that aren't eating all the garbage, 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.800 just eating the meat. Now we're seeing anecdotally by the 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.920 thousands and thousands, and there are some studies in progress 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.960 right now which I'm helping to facilitate that are showing that. 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.720 And what we're seeing is if you're eating you know, 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.720 beef and eggs and you're not eating all the garbage, 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:17.600 you know, you're not eating all the process or fine 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.680 carbohydrates with that, the health outcomes are very very much 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.080 different than what we see when you're eating the standard 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.320 American western you know McDonald's Happy Meal died, Yeah, which 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.440 is what they can flate you know, red meat to. Yeah. 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:30.160 That's one thing that I was thinking, because you know, 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.800 I eat the rabbi with the butter on it, the 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.960 eggs fat. Yeah, and I'm losing weight right, but you 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:38.560 know a lot of people say, well, you know there's 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.240 heart disease or the cholesterol, and I was thinking, So 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:43.920 helped me with this. Maybe it was sort of having 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:45.960 this one foot in, one foot out where I do 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.720 eat all that fat, but I'm also eating the garbage 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:50.600 and so then maybe combined it's bad. 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.200 Yeah. I mean I think the I think most people, 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.600 even the most sort of pro you know, low lower 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.600 cholesterol cardioloist will agree that heart disease is multifactoral. There 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.200 are a lot of things that do that, and we 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.240 now know that there are a lot of people with 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.720 very high cholesterol that never develop heart disease. You know, 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.480 the counter that whether they're smokers that never get cancer. Okay, 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:16.199 that's fair enough. But the reality is is that you know, 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.800 there are other things going on metabolically, metabolic syndrome, diabetes, 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.840 pre diabetes, and some resistance, chronic inflammation, hypertension, all those 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.000 things which meat based that often completely gets what gets 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:29.800 rid of. I mean, I see people that are blood 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.440 pressure normalized, their diabetes goes away, their obeseity goes away 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.600 pretty consistently, and so the question is, well, what happens 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.720 if your cholesterol still goes up? And the thought is, 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.679 what's because all the saturated fatuating. Well, it turns out, 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.800 in fact, January of this year, Adrian Sodamota, who's a 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.879 brilliant Oxford PhD T, just died. A meta analysis forty 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.080 one randomized controlled trials looking at what is the main 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.760 determined of whether your cholesterol goes up or not on 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.480 a on a low carb diet and the number one 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.080 factor will is how lean you are. If you get 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.359 leaner and leaner, your cholesterol goes up. If you're obese, 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.240 your cholesterol will go down. And so the question is 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:11.320 you know there's something to go to lipid energy model, 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:15.159 which describes that as we are less full of energy, 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:16.679 Like if I've got a bunch of stored energy on 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.280 my body, I can use that. If I have low 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.080 stored energy on my body, low body fat, little liver glycogen, 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:24.960 then in order to feed the cells in my body, 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.800 the liver has to dump more flux of fat into 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:30.719 the blitzroom. So that's why you're picking us up. Now. 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.720 The question is is that actually harmful? I'd say the 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.439 real answer is we don't know for sure. However, there 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.960 are studies out there right now that on one that 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.480 Matt Bootoff is doing at UCLA clearly has shown that 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:45.720 they took up cohort of one hundred people with I 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:49.040 mean ridiculously high LDL choluster. We're talking about LDL cholesterol 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.600 three hundred four hundred. LDL is the quote unquote considered 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:56.000 the bad cholesterol so super high like the normal that 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:57.560 they want want you to keep it under is like 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.360 under one hundred and forty some people want that under 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.080 a hundred some people with diabetes and under seventy five. 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.720 These people are walking around with LDL cholesterols in excess 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.480 of five hundred for years and years and years. And 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:11.600 they did high level, very precise ct and giography on 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.960 these people and what they found was compared to an 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.959 age match you know, health match group, they actually had 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:22.160