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Speaker 1: In medical school, they actually tell you, like half the

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Speaker 1: stuff we're teaching now is wrong. We just don't know

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Speaker 1: which happen it is. So I mean that's built in

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Speaker 1: you already kind of accept that. We don't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of data on people just consuming me. We have

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Speaker 1: a few studies out there, but there's been i mean, gosh,

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Speaker 1: almost no evidence it suggests anyone's developing any significant vitument deficiencies.

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Speaker 1: And Harvard study that came out in twenty twenty one

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Speaker 1: they specifically looked at that they didn't find any evidence

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Speaker 1: of nutrient deficiencies.

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Speaker 2: You know, I often say that everything you've learned is wrong,

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Speaker 2: and when it comes to the world of well, almost everything.

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Speaker 2: That's why I say almost everything that is wrong. Now

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Speaker 2: we typically talk about finance and what you've learned about money,

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Speaker 2: but of course what you've learned about relationships and even

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Speaker 2: your health is wrong. I'm sitting down with doctor Sean Baker.

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Speaker 2: He's a multi sport, world record setting athlete, physician and

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Speaker 2: author of The Carnivore Diety. You're opening clinics helping people.

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Speaker 2: There's obviously the weight loss industry is massive. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot of money there, so it doesn't seem like it's

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Speaker 2: just about the money.

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Speaker 1: I think there's just much more profit in keeping people

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Speaker 1: relatively sick, and then this doing this sort of what

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Speaker 1: we call disease management.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it was sort of having this one foot in,

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Speaker 2: one foot out where I do eat all that fat,

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Speaker 2: but I'm also eating the garbage, and so then maybe

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Speaker 2: combined it's bad.

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Speaker 1: If you get leaner and leaner, the cholesterol goes up.

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Speaker 1: If you're obese, your cholesterol will go down. And so

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Speaker 1: the question is is that actually harmful? I'd say the

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Speaker 1: real answer is, Sehn, thanks for joining me. Hey, Mark,

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Speaker 1: appreciate you having me on.

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Speaker 2: Sorry to make you weight. We were waiting for a

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Speaker 2: president Trump today.

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Speaker 1: We'll cut on some slack.

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Speaker 2: He held us up a little bit. We'll cut that

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Speaker 2: guy some slack. What are the world records setting?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so, I mean I had world records in powerlifting,

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Speaker 1: so I was. I was a drug free, pretty decent deadlifter.

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Speaker 1: I lifted three hundred and fifty kilos seven and seventy

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Speaker 1: two pounds. You know, quite a few years ago, when

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Speaker 1: I was a little younger, I did the Highland Games,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of an interesting sports. The Scottish games

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Speaker 1: where you put on a kilt and you throw heavy things,

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Speaker 1: really big telephone polls, cabers, and various other events. I

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Speaker 1: won a world championship and set a world record, and

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Speaker 1: that then I went on to competitive rowing, you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: and set I think six or seven American records and

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Speaker 1: these are age group records and several world records, and

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Speaker 1: in fact fact, I'll probably break some more of them

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Speaker 1: in the next couple of weeks training for that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Good Now, As I said, I often say on my videos,

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Speaker 2: everything you've learned is wrong. My sister was an er doctor,

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Speaker 2: and I remember when she got out of medical school.

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Speaker 2: She came home and, you know, forget all your vitamins,

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Speaker 2: forget all that, just take the antibiotics, and she was

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Speaker 2: just like in this like tunnel. A couple of years ago,

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Speaker 2: she was forced to leave California because she didn't want

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Speaker 2: to go along with the program in California. She went

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Speaker 2: to a functional medicine clinic in Houston, and like, wow,

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Speaker 2: learn for the first time you can heal people. And

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Speaker 2: I realized sort of in the world of physicians as well,

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Speaker 2: like probably a lot of what you learned was wrong

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Speaker 2: and in order for you to learn the other way.

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Speaker 2: You sort of maybe have to go unl learning that

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Speaker 2: and learn some new stuff. I'm curious sort of like

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Speaker 2: how you went from that path from being an MD,

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Speaker 2: Like what was that wake up moment that caused you

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Speaker 2: go figure that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, in medical school they actually tell you

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Speaker 1: like half the stuff we're teaching now is wrong. We

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Speaker 1: just don't know which half it is. So I mean

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Speaker 1: that's built in you already kind of accept that, but

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Speaker 1: then you know, you kind of go along. And really

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Speaker 1: the moment for me was was that showed me that

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Speaker 1: the real problems we have with the healthcare system was

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Speaker 1: the fact that we had a situation and you know,

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Speaker 1: my background is orthopedic surgery, so I would do knee

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Speaker 1: replacements and hip replacements, fixed broken bones and whatnot, and

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Speaker 1: we were as a community, you know, struggling with the

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Speaker 1: fact that we had so many obese patients and they

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Speaker 1: were having greater complication rates after surgeries, particularly after knee replacements,

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Speaker 1: and so we kind of as a collective community said, hey,

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Speaker 1: we got to get these people to lose weight prior

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Speaker 1: to doing the surgery, and they didn't really give you

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Speaker 1: a framework on how to do that. Some of them

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Speaker 1: got sent to bariatric surgeons for gas to bypass.

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Speaker 2: Some of them.

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Speaker 1: You know, we you know, whatever, diet exercise, eat more,

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Speaker 1: you know, eat less, move more type of stuff. And

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Speaker 1: I just at that time it happened to be that

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Speaker 1: I was doing a very low carb diet and kithogenic

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Speaker 1: dit at the time, and so I said, this was

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Speaker 1: twenty twelve, something like twelve, twenty thirteen, and at that

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Speaker 1: point I said, well, I'm gonna try to some of

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Speaker 1: my patients. And you know, not all the patients would

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Speaker 1: do it. In fact, probably maybe twenty percent would actually

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Speaker 1: do it, but a significant significant percentage of ones that

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Speaker 1: would actually go on a diet and legitimately do it

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Speaker 1: would very often report to me that their their knee

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Speaker 1: pain was gone, which I thought was really interesting because

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Speaker 1: they were the reason I was seeing it was for

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Speaker 1: a knee replace because they were in horrible knee pain.

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Speaker 1: So I started canceling surgeries, and then I thought it

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Speaker 1: was pretty cool that that was happening. I brought this

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Speaker 1: to the sort of the hospital administration. I said, hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to spend you know, half day week kind

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Speaker 1: of doing some lifestyle diet counseling and I was flat

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Speaker 1: out told basically, no, you can't do that, and that

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Speaker 1: that was my wake up call that wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: this is not about what's best for the patients, what's

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Speaker 1: best for the bottom line, which you don't businesses or

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Speaker 1: what you know, they do what they need to do

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Speaker 1: to make money. But it made me realize that what

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Speaker 1: I learned about how to treat disease and take care

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Speaker 1: of patients in medical school was maybe not the most

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Speaker 1: effective way or maybe not the best way, and so

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Speaker 1: I sort of went down this rabbit hole of nutrition

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Speaker 1: and now, guys, for the last us eight or nine

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Speaker 1: years now, I've been sort of seeing the stuff evolve.

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Speaker 1: And I mean every day I see people that whether

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Speaker 1: it's joint pain or mental health disorders like depression, bipolar disorder,

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Speaker 1: autoimmune diseases, we're just putting them in a remission left

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Speaker 1: and right. And that's what sort of prompted me to

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Speaker 1: found a company called Rivero that you know, we're licensed

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Speaker 1: in all fifty states and we have physicians across the

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Speaker 1: nation that take people in deal with the nutrition in

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Speaker 1: their lifestyle, get them off madge, and then we have

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Speaker 1: all the support that goes with it. That's required because

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Speaker 1: the healthcare system, you don't have a lot of support.

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Speaker 1: If you want to make a life lifestyle intervention. If

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Speaker 1: I want to do surgery in somebody, I've got a

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Speaker 1: multimillion dollar operating room, I've got radiology suites, I've got

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Speaker 1: you know labs, I've got physical therapy. I've got you

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Speaker 1: know everything. I need millions and millions of dollars of resource.

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Speaker 1: But if I say, hey, let's work on this person's lifestyle, sleep, exercise, nutrition,

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Speaker 1: so on and so forth, you got zero nothing.

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Speaker 2: So now the obvious thing seems that because there's no

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Speaker 2: money in that. So you mentioned earlier, well, we have

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Speaker 2: a business, we want to do surgery, So the obvious

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Speaker 2: thing seems to be the money. However, you're opening clinics

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Speaker 2: helping people. There's obviously the weight loss industry is massive.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of money there. So it doesn't seem

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Speaker 2: like it's just about the money. I mean, why do

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Speaker 2: you think there's just not support, Because there's obviously weight

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Speaker 2: loss support, right, Jenny Craig or whatever. Right, there's weight watchers,

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Speaker 2: there's plenty of that, but there's not for you know,

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Speaker 2: more traditional or type of health.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean there is money in that. And

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Speaker 1: I think there's there's cost savings. Certainly, if you're a

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Speaker 1: company in thirty percent of your expenses are going to

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Speaker 1: play for your pay for employees, medical benefits. I mean

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Speaker 1: saving that is actually you know, a net you know,

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Speaker 1: profit to you. I think there's just much more profit

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Speaker 1: in keeping people relatively sick. And then this doing this

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Speaker 1: sort of what we call disease management. Now, disease management

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Speaker 1: was a term that came into vogue maybe twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I started medicine, I hadn't heard the

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Speaker 1: term disease management. Then they started talking disease men, what

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Speaker 1: is disease management? Oh, that means we're just going to

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Speaker 1: keep these people in a state of illness and manage

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Speaker 1: their symptom ya medication. And that's really the business model

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Speaker 1: that's gone forward. It's very profitable, you know. I mean

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Speaker 1: Goldman Sachs a few year Agoes a few years ago

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Speaker 1: was asked the question is it profitable to cure disease?

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Speaker 1: And resultingly they said, no, it's not. It doesn't make

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Speaker 1: sense business wise. And so, you know, I think that's

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Speaker 1: the problem that we have in general, is we have

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Speaker 1: a sick population, which to anyone that's been outside can

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Speaker 1: see that. I mean, anybody's been on the earth for

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Speaker 1: longer than twenty or thirty years now sees that we've

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Speaker 1: got just more and more sick, depressed, you know, dependent population.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, in the last probably two years, I have

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Speaker 2: two good friends of mine that were both really big,

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Speaker 2: have gone through gastric bypass. Both lost a ton of weight,

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Speaker 2: like an enormous amount of weight. One of them is

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Speaker 2: starting to put the weight back on. They're the ones

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Speaker 2: doing pretty good. However, when I look at what they're

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Speaker 2: eating afterwards, like they're still eating bags of chips and

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Speaker 2: they're still drinking sodas. So even in a type of

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Speaker 2: deal where they've gotten the money, they've done the done

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Speaker 2: the surgery, you would think they would at least still

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Speaker 2: want them to maintain what they've gave them. Otherwise maybe

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Speaker 2: they're a failure.

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Speaker 1: Well, they don't give them the tools to do that's

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Speaker 1: a problem. I mean for some people it's really challenging.

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Speaker 1: I mean they literally have to change the relationship with food.

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Speaker 1: And when anyone comes to me and talks about weight loss,

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Speaker 1: I said, don't worry about that right now, We've got

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Speaker 1: to fix your food addiction or whatever is causing you

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Speaker 1: to continue to do this, because you can. Anybody can

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Speaker 1: lose weight on any diet for a short period of time.

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Speaker 1: It's what happens Coli restrictions. Of course, it works for

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Speaker 1: a while until you can't do it anymore. And so

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Speaker 1: what this sort of option does is it provides people

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Speaker 1: not only a sense of society, but actual nursement because

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of obese people out there that

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Speaker 1: are at although they're obese, they're similar at the same time,

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Speaker 1: they are malnourished because they just don't have the proper nutrition.

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Speaker 1: If you don't start feeding yourselves appropriately, then it's so

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Speaker 1: easy to constantly be hungry and constantly fall prey to

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Speaker 1: the food industry, which is another industry that has very

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Speaker 1: clearly designed food to be addictive as possible, you know,

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Speaker 1: very profitable, very addictive. I mean, I've talked of food

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Speaker 1: chemist that have worked for these companies and they are,

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Speaker 1: you know, at the end of their career they feel

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Speaker 1: guilty about the fact that they their job literally was

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Speaker 1: to addict people to these foods and they've clearly done

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Speaker 1: that successfully.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, would you say that, do you think

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Speaker 2: it's accurate? To say that all diets, like diet plans

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Speaker 2: that you would go on Cali restriction diets, are really

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Speaker 2: about eating fake food. And if all you ate was

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Speaker 2: real food, you wouldn't have to go on those diaplans.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, if we think about what food was

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Speaker 1: available to the average human not not that long ago,

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Speaker 1: one hundred hundred fifty years ago, and we didn't have

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Speaker 1: these these obesity epidemics. You know, we don't have the

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Speaker 1: ten thousand items that we have in the in the

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Speaker 1: grocery store today. We don't have you know, all of

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Speaker 1: the ingredients we're not even sure why. I mean, they're

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Speaker 1: there to keep it on the shelf life and to

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Speaker 1: make people eat them more. So I think if most

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Speaker 1: people would give up that stuff, we would see significant benefits.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. There's a guy from Tufts University,

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Speaker 1: Darius Mosafarian, who some people remember. He published a study

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Speaker 1: showing that lucky Charms was arguably better than beef, which

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Speaker 1: is a nons right, right, But one of the things

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Speaker 1: he hasn't pointed out, which I think is interesting, is

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Speaker 1: that from about nineteen sixty to nineteteen nineties two thousand eight,

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Speaker 1: we ate significantly more calorie and that seems to explain

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Speaker 1: the epidemic of obesity. But since that time, our color

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Speaker 1: consumption really hasn't increased so much, but we still are

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Speaker 1: getting fatter and fatter as a nation. And why is that. Well,

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Speaker 1: part of it has to do with the increasingly higher

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Speaker 1: percentage of ultra processing that occurs, and so when that

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Speaker 1: food is turned into powder, it's just absorbed in a

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Speaker 1: very different way than what we're designed for. And so

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Speaker 1: when you turn all this food into powder, it's absorbed

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Speaker 1: much more quickly. And normally there's something called our microbiome,

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Speaker 1: a little bacteria that live in our gut, that would

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Speaker 1: consume some of that, but if it's already powder, it

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Speaker 1: gets absorbed very rapidly, very high up in our digestive track,

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Speaker 1: before those things even have a chance to act on it.

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Speaker 1: So even though we're eating the same number of calories,

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Speaker 1: we're actually absorbing more calories and that goes to the

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Speaker 1: quality of the food. So if you're eating steak and eggs,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty old fashioned food. I mean, that's been around

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Speaker 1: since human beings have around, basically, and it's it's absorbed

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Speaker 1: and digested and metabolized in a way that's consistent of

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Speaker 1: how we're designed or how we evolve, or however you

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Speaker 1: want to come in phrase that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And if you're just eating steak and eggs,

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Speaker 2: then you feel so satiated, then you get full faster,

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Speaker 2: and it's very hard to over eat. We were talking

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Speaker 2: earlier and I was saying that, right lately, I've just

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Speaker 2: been eating just meat and I'm having problems gettingenough calories.

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Speaker 1: That that is an issue. That's one of the problems

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Speaker 1: I say with this is people often end up under eating.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I mean, that's a good problem for

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Speaker 1: to have for some people, but it can be a

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Speaker 1: problem for other people that they that they don't eat

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Speaker 1: enough and then they have problems with fatigue and some

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Speaker 1: other issues that occur. So it does take some getting

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Speaker 1: used to for sure.

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Speaker 2: Now I've been into weightlifting, bodybuilding, health supplements, whatever for

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Speaker 2: a good majority of my life now at this point,

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Speaker 2: and I thought I had heard of everything and every diet.

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Speaker 2: And it was at a bitcoin meeting, a conference probably

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. It was a safety and he told me

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Speaker 2: about the carnivore diet and I was like, what, like

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Speaker 2: that makes no sense, And I thought I knew a

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Speaker 2: lot about diet, like, I've never heard of that. Don't

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Speaker 2: we need vegetables? You know, that's probably the most common

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Speaker 2: thing I'd hear. Or number two would be, you know,

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Speaker 2: now red meat has been sort of vilified. So I

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Speaker 2: guess let's address those two things talking about on the

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Speaker 2: carnivore diet. Why has red meat been vilified? And maybe

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Speaker 2: why is it actually not such a bad game for Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I mean, can it be in the wrong consumption?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, The vilification of red meat goes back at least

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Speaker 1: one hundred years. I mean, if we look at the

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Speaker 1: creation of the American Dietetics Association, which was founded back

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventeen by a gal by the name of

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Speaker 1: Lenna Cooper. She was a Seventh Day Adventist, very much

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Speaker 1: aligned with our philosophy that red meat was driving sinfulness, lust, masturbation,

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Speaker 1: all the bad things were associated with that. So she

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Speaker 1: very you know, pointly was in favor of more of

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Speaker 1: a vegetarian diet. So that was a very foundation of

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Speaker 1: nutrition science in this country and thus most of the

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Speaker 1: Western world. And you know, they have gone on the

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Speaker 1: Seventh Day Adventist to populate significant percentage is of the

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Speaker 1: higher crey of the nutrition sciences, and so the studies

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Speaker 1: have always kind of started with that bias. And now,

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Speaker 1: you know, what we see clearly is when you consume meat, milk, eggs,

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Speaker 1: dairy and things like that, like you mentioned, you're very satiated,

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Speaker 1: you don't consume those other foods. And so by vilifying

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Speaker 1: those things, now there's a whole there's a gap in

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Speaker 1: your your hunger level. So what do you fill it with? Well,

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Speaker 1: we typically fill it with ultra processed foods. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's just clearly what happens. You can say, oh, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna everyody's gonna eat beans and celery. That doesn't that's

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Speaker 1: not what actually happens. We know study after study has

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Speaker 1: shown that the more plant based you go, the more

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Speaker 1: you tend to eat these ultra process foods. And the

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Speaker 1: companies that produce us know that. They clearly know that.

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Speaker 1: So if they continue to vilify meat, people eat less

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Speaker 1: of it. What do they replace it with, Well, they

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Speaker 1: replace it with this cheap, ultra process highly profitable foods.

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Speaker 1: And so that's part of it. I mean, the way

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Speaker 1: the science is done, like you know, every single and

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Speaker 1: this is most of nutrition, Most of nutrition depends on

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Speaker 1: these nutritional demiologic studies where they you know, they'll they'll

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Speaker 1: look at a you know, one hundred thousand people, they'll

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Speaker 1: send out a food frequency questionnaire, ask them, you know,

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Speaker 1: how much red meat did gat? How much chicken, and

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Speaker 1: how much eggs? How much fruit and vegetables. And first

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Speaker 1: of all, it is horribly horribly plagued by recall bias.

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Speaker 1: You don't remember. I can't if I asked you what

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Speaker 1: you ate five for the last five years, how many

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Speaker 1: servings of eggs you ate? You, you wouldn't be able

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Speaker 1: to accurately did so, first of all, we have very

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Speaker 1: very bad information. But then the way they define red meat, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I literally just posted about this two days ago.

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Speaker 1: Every almost every food frequency question the way they define

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Speaker 1: beef in particular, beef is defined as steaks, you know,

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Speaker 1: roast hamburgers, lasagna, pizza, it's how you know, those things

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Speaker 1: are considered to be beef. And wait a minute, it's

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Speaker 1: a pizza. Yeah, but it's got well, it doesn't matter,

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Speaker 1: it's still considerable. So we have those horrible confounders in there,

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Speaker 1: and so we don't have data, at least, you know,

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Speaker 1: large scale data on people that aren't eating all the garbage,

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Speaker 1: just eating the meat. Now we're seeing anecdotally by the

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Speaker 1: thousands and thousands, and there are some studies in progress

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Speaker 1: right now which I'm helping to facilitate that are showing that.

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Speaker 1: And what we're seeing is if you're eating you know,

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Speaker 1: beef and eggs and you're not eating all the garbage,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're not eating all the process or fine

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Speaker 1: carbohydrates with that, the health outcomes are very very much

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Speaker 1: different than what we see when you're eating the standard

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Speaker 1: American western you know McDonald's Happy Meal died, Yeah, which

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Speaker 1: is what they can flate you know, red meat to. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's one thing that I was thinking, because you know,

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Speaker 2: I eat the rabbi with the butter on it, the

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Speaker 2: eggs fat. Yeah, and I'm losing weight right, but you

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Speaker 2: know a lot of people say, well, you know there's

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Speaker 2: heart disease or the cholesterol, and I was thinking, So

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Speaker 2: helped me with this. Maybe it was sort of having

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Speaker 2: this one foot in, one foot out where I do

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Speaker 2: eat all that fat, but I'm also eating the garbage

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Speaker 2: and so then maybe combined it's bad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I think the I think most people,

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Speaker 1: even the most sort of pro you know, low lower

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Speaker 1: cholesterol cardioloist will agree that heart disease is multifactoral. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of things that do that, and we

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Speaker 1: now know that there are a lot of people with

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Speaker 1: very high cholesterol that never develop heart disease. You know,

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Speaker 1: the counter that whether they're smokers that never get cancer. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's fair enough. But the reality is is that you know,

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Speaker 1: there are other things going on metabolically, metabolic syndrome, diabetes,

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Speaker 1: pre diabetes, and some resistance, chronic inflammation, hypertension, all those

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Speaker 1: things which meat based that often completely gets what gets

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Speaker 1: rid of. I mean, I see people that are blood

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Speaker 1: pressure normalized, their diabetes goes away, their obeseity goes away

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Speaker 1: pretty consistently, and so the question is, well, what happens

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Speaker 1: if your cholesterol still goes up? And the thought is,

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Speaker 1: what's because all the saturated fatuating. Well, it turns out,

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Speaker 1: in fact, January of this year, Adrian Sodamota, who's a

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Speaker 1: brilliant Oxford PhD T, just died. A meta analysis forty

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Speaker 1: one randomized controlled trials looking at what is the main

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Speaker 1: determined of whether your cholesterol goes up or not on

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Speaker 1: a on a low carb diet and the number one

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Speaker 1: factor will is how lean you are. If you get

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Speaker 1: leaner and leaner, your cholesterol goes up. If you're obese,

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Speaker 1: your cholesterol will go down. And so the question is

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Speaker 1: you know there's something to go to lipid energy model,

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Speaker 1: which describes that as we are less full of energy,

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Speaker 1: Like if I've got a bunch of stored energy on

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Speaker 1: my body, I can use that. If I have low

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Speaker 1: stored energy on my body, low body fat, little liver glycogen,

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Speaker 1: then in order to feed the cells in my body,

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Speaker 1: the liver has to dump more flux of fat into

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Speaker 1: the blitzroom. So that's why you're picking us up. Now.

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Speaker 1: The question is is that actually harmful? I'd say the

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Speaker 1: real answer is we don't know for sure. However, there

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Speaker 1: are studies out there right now that on one that

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Speaker 1: Matt Bootoff is doing at UCLA clearly has shown that

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Speaker 1: they took up cohort of one hundred people with I

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Speaker 1: mean ridiculously high LDL choluster. We're talking about LDL cholesterol

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Speaker 1: three hundred four hundred. LDL is the quote unquote considered

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Speaker 1: the bad cholesterol so super high like the normal that

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Speaker 1: they want want you to keep it under is like

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Speaker 1: under one hundred and forty some people want that under

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Speaker 1: a hundred some people with diabetes and under seventy five.

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Speaker 1: These people are walking around with LDL cholesterols in excess

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Speaker 1: of five hundred for years and years and years. And

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Speaker 1: they did high level, very precise ct and giography on

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Speaker 1: these people and what they found was compared to an

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Speaker 1: age match you know, health match group, they actually had

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Speaker 1: less heart disease than people that didn't have high oldel cholesterol.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of interesting. You're seeing, we're starting to

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Speaker 1: see where the nuance is. And so while I can't

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Speaker 1: sit there and say we should ignore LDL cholesterol, I

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Speaker 1: would say there are other things that impact that that

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Speaker 1: may mitigate or exascer you know, or increase the likeli

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Speaker 1: of having a negative outcome. And I think we're gonna

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Speaker 1: ge We're gonna get more native's coming out here very

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Speaker 1: very shortly.

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Speaker 2: I think I heard you talk about this on Joe Rogan,

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Speaker 2: I think it was, and you were talking about like

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Speaker 2: the cookie test or the oreo test or something right right,

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Speaker 2: right right, change the amount of cholesterol that was being

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Speaker 2: dumped into your blood strength something like that. So there's

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Speaker 2: also a health risk of having two low cholesterol, right,

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Speaker 2: So does that lower your testosterone levels prevents your skin

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Speaker 2: from converbionce?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean cholesterol. I mean cholesterol is a

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Speaker 1: scaffolding from which all your sex hormones are built on.

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Speaker 1: Vitamin D is built on we know at least associationally,

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Speaker 1: and again there's all the caveats about associational data not

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Speaker 1: necessarily being causal, but we know people with very low

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Speaker 1: cholesterol more likely to have suicide, more likely to be violent,

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Speaker 1: more likely to be depressed, questionably, more likely to have dementia,

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Speaker 1: you know, all cause mortality. If we look at those tables,

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Speaker 1: that's clearly seen, like we see study after study, if

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Speaker 1: you have very low cholesterol, you're more likely to die.

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Speaker 1: Now the caveat to that as many people say, well,

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00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,959
Speaker 1: that's reverse causality. That is to say that it's not

430
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 1: that your cholesterol is low that you got cancers. You

431
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 1: got cancer. That's why your cholesterol as well. Because remember cholesterol,

432
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 1: well maybe you don't know this, but cholesterol actually participates

433
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 1: in our immune system. It's necessary for immune function. So

434
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 1: when it's too low, potentially you know, and we do.

435
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,080
Speaker 1: We see people with low cholesterol have worse outcomes. When

436
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: it comes to infectious disease, you get an infection, you

437
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: get septic in the hospital. If you got low cholesterol

438
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,239
Speaker 1: going in, you're like less likely to survive that. So

439
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 1: I mean it's there is a risk for that. Now,

440
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 1: they will use this sort of thing called by a

441
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 1: beta lipoproteinemia, which is a genetic condition where people have

442
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 1: low cholesterol and they don't die right away, they don't

443
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 1: die erectly, and they'll say that's that's justification for lowering

444
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: this stuff as low as possible. I mean, I mean,

445
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 1: if you can get your cholesterol to zero, you probably

446
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 1: won't have heart disease. But I mean I'll be a

447
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: little well, yeah, I'll be a little vulgar here, but

448
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 1: I mean, if if you want to avoid sexually transmitted disease,

449
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 1: you could cut off your genitals and that would work too,

450
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 1: But it's not a very good it's not a very

451
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: good strategy.

452
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:46,919
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, what about the people who would say that

453
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 2: you need to have fiber in your diet. Though I've

454
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 2: been told that so many times, I don't have a

455
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 2: good answer for that other than well, it seems to

456
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 2: be working pretty.

457
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 1: Good for me, right, Well, I mean it kind of

458
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: is what it is. You don't need fiber. I mean,

459
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: fiber is a conditionally beneficial I wouldn't even call it

460
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 1: a nutrient. I mean, you know, we see again a

461
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: lot of associational data that shows that people that consume

462
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 1: more fiber live longer, they have less heart disease, they

463
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 1: have little rates of cancer in some instances, and I

464
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 1: think that data is clear. But I think really what

465
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: we're seeing with fiber is really just a proxy measure

466
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: for dietary quality. That is to say, if I'm eating

467
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 1: fruits and vegetables, which interestingly just jump onto this aside

468
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 1: real quick, fiber tends to prevent you from absorbing nutrition.

469
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 1: So there's a study a great Today from nineteen seventy

470
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 1: eight where they look at people in a high fiber

471
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: diet versus a very low fiber diet, and they found

472
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,719
Speaker 1: the people in the high fiber diet lost twice as

473
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: much protein in their waste products. They lost twice as

474
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 1: much carbonhydrate, twice as much fat. So that nutrition that

475
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 1: you're eating ends up in the toilet, which is like, well,

476
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: that's kind of a waste of money in many ways.

477
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 1: But the fact that if you have a fiber rich diet,

478
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 1: you're probably less likely to be eating ultra process for

479
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 1: fine grains and flowers and sugar. It just displaces it

480
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: out of the way, you know. One of the is

481
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: one of the more recent thoughts around the benefits of

482
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: fire or are what does it do to our microbiome.

483
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: We get these bacteria in our gut that produce short

484
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: chain fatty acids. The most probably well known one is

485
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 1: buturic acid, and that seems to have a protective role

486
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: for the cells that line in the gut, the kalinocytes. Well.

487
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, and there's a great paper that doctor Tommy

488
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: Wood and Lucy Mailing Woods at the University Washing I

489
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 1: can't remember Lucy Mailing is, but they collaborated on a

490
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: paper and we're talking about the metabolock flexibility of the

491
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: gut and what it clearly shows is you can get

492
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: that same effect those same short chain fatty acids from

493
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: consuming protein. Protein certainly does that also for me in

494
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 1: a low carbon stape because you're now producing these keytone bodies,

495
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 1: and the keytone bodies do the exact same thing. In fact,

496
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: the keytone bodies hydroxy beta, hydroxy butyrate and buturic acid

497
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: are almost identical molecules, and it's a very quick reaction

498
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: where they're reversible, So they.

499
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 2: Do the same thing as what the key tones.

500
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: The key totnes are the same thing as the short

501
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 1: chain fatty acids that the fiber produces from fermentation in

502
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: the gut. And what I see with regard to gut health,

503
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: whether you have IBS, irritable bowel syndrome, or inflammatory billaci,

504
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: these worth the crones crones, these are also colitis. By

505
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: going carnivore and removing fiber from the diet, literally people

506
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: have the best gut health of their life. I mean

507
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 1: they feel so much better. They no longer have the pain,

508
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: the diarrhea, the bloody, bloody stools, the bloating. It just normalizes.

509
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 1: And in fact, I was a guy here at that's conference,

510
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: says bred Ender. He put his ulcer of colitis that

511
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: he was on you know years of this, you know,

512
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: sixty seventy thousand dollars a year of infusion medications, these

513
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: immuno suppressive drugs. He was able to come off completely.

514
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: Goes Carnival. He's like, it's never come back.

515
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen amazing things. I haven't had any big

516
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: conditions to come off of. But I've seen i' seen

517
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: other people. Now, what about the quality of the meat

518
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: that you eat? So like with safety and for example,

519
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, I just go through McDonald's. I'll just

520
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: get a bunch of patties by themselves. I'll just get

521
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 2: six or eight patties and just chow that down. But

522
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: I think that seems like really bad meat. Is there

523
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 2: something where the meat sort of filters out, maybe the

524
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 2: antibiotics or the ZMO grain.

525
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: They Yeah, so with particularly with regard to beef, So

526
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: the way animal, you know, animal diesin. You know, we've

527
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: got roominant animals, cows, sheep, deer, elk, things like that

528
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 1: where they have these sort of four chambered digestive stomachs,

529
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: if you will, versus a model gasri which would be

530
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: a chicken or a pig, which is where you know,

531
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: most of our most of the food we're gonna eat beef, chicken,

532
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: or pork typically here at least in the US. What

533
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: we know is that particularly when it comes to beef.

534
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: And I'm a big big I'm wearing a shirt says

535
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: he'd beef be happy. I'm a big beef guy. That

536
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: that meat irrespective of how it's finished, generally is pretty

537
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: healthy for people. I mean what I first time the

538
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: road image at the end or whole, Well, I mean

539
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: it's really the differences are at the end, because all

540
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: cows start out on grass and pastor. In the United States,

541
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: every cow in fact, right now they are about ninety

542
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: million head of cattle in the unit the United States.

543
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: Eighty five percent of them right now today are sitting

544
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: on pasture and grass. That's just the reality of the system. Now,

545
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: fifteen percent of them are currently finishing out at a

546
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: feed lot. You know, that's going to be a large

547
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: percentage of cows eventually end up there and they'll be fed.

548
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: You know, they'll continue to consume grass and forage to that.

549
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: You know, certain agricultural grain products are at sometimes corn,

550
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: sometimes it's barley, depending on what region they're in. But

551
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: the reality is that you can go to the grocery

552
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: store and buy hamburgers and you're fine. I've seen people

553
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: put diabetes in remission. I've seen people put bipolar disorder

554
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 1: into our mission. I've seen people put multiple sclerosis into

555
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: remission by doing that. Now, the difference really lies with

556
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: the environmental impact, because I think that's where the differences

557
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: come in. It's not so much the human health side,

558
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: or at least it's not a significant difference. Filled by

559
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: the name of Stefan von Vliet who's at University of Utah,

560
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: Fred Pravenza at Duke have looked into the nutritional differences

561
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: between and there are there clearly are. You can look

562
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: at grass finished or regeneratively finished, which is probably a

563
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: better even a better word, versus you know, the typical

564
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: feed lot finished things. There are nutritional differences, for sure,

565
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: no doubt. However, the clinical outcomes we're seeing have not

566
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: been significantly difference. Harvard did a study on this back

567
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. I asked that the researchers specifically

568
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: ask about grain finished versus grass finished. They did, The

569
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: outcomes weren't any different. I've got data on about twelve

570
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 1: thousand people showed the same thing. So while I am

571
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: very supportive of finishing animals and pasturing them in a

572
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: very regenerative way, and I think we should do a

573
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: heck of a lot more of that, I don't think

574
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: people feel like they have to do it that way

575
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 1: to get the health results, because that's not been the.

576
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 2: It's sort of it's a little bit better, but you

577
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: don't really see it in the health. Yeah.

578
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: Like when I was first on Rogue and I was talking,

579
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: I gave kind of the UFC you know, grass finished beef,

580
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: UFC World champ Grain Finish is like the number two

581
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: contender guy. I mean, they're still very very high level foods.

582
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 2: So you would be fine going to McDonald's.

583
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: I would, and I mean, well grab those, I would.

584
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: I'd go to Windys and Steaks. I think it tastes better, but.

585
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, I mean I assume you're getting real meat.

586
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and you know that's the concern a

587
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: lot of people is, oh, it's cooked in these all

588
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: these crazy oils. And you know, if you go to

589
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: these restaurants and you ask them, they're like, no, we

590
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: don't use oils. And the reason for that is is

591
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: because it's a waste of money. Why before he has

592
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: fat it it doesn't need that. Now I've eat the

593
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: French fries, yeah, you're gonna get all the crappy soybean

594
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: oil and all that stuff. So I'm I don't do

595
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: that regularly, but if I'm traveling or something like that,

596
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: if I'm on a road, if the airport, I'm like, man,

597
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: it's just between this and not eating. Yeah, I'll go

598
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: there and grab a grab a burger patty for penalttle

599
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: burger time for.

600
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: Sure, and so and then on the steak like grass fed,

601
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: grass finished, grass fed, grain finished, both, yeah.

602
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: Both, I mean, you know, I mean there's there's only

603
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: you know, grass finished and there's grain finished. Those are

604
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: two options. I mean, everything is grass fed at some point,

605
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: Like I said, every cow that starts out is going

606
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: to start on grass for but six, eight, nine, ten months.

607
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: But steak from Costco or the grocery store versus having

608
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: my rancho ship at to me from Texas.

609
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: I'll eat either of them. And I have and I

610
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: can't say that I personally have seen any significant personal differences,

611
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, for me. But there are people, you know, again,

612
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: I've interacted with literally thousands of people at this point.

613
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: They've done this dot. There are people clearly that will

614
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: say I feel better when I only eat grass finished products. Conversely,

615
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: there people saying I feel better on grain finished problem.

616
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: So I think it's kind of personalized at that point.

617
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 2: For me, the grass fed grass finished is just a

618
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: little too tough and it loses a lot of the flavors.

619
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: Well, it's harder to finish those animals out I talked

620
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,959
Speaker 1: to ranches. It takes more skill, it takes more time.

621
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: You may not be able to do it everywhere in

622
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: every location just because of the climate. Grain finishing is

623
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: pretty much down to a science. It's pretty easy. I

624
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: mean they've got that, they've got that built into the system.

625
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: So I mean that's you know, at least you know

626
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna get a well marble piece of steak that's

627
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: gonna give you enough fat, because when you're not consuming carbohydrates,

628
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: you got it fat. I mean, as you know. I mean,

629
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: otherwise you'll be like hungry all the time. You have

630
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: no energy.

631
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 2: And for you, you don't do eggs and cheese or

632
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: any of that.

633
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: No, I do, I do from time to time. I

634
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: mean I've, like I said, I've gone eight years now

635
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: eating ninety five percent of my diet has been basically beef.

636
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: I mean that's literally it. Another five percent will be

637
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: sometimes I'll have agg Sometimes I feel like you'll have

638
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: a I'll have a half dozen eggs are in the air.

639
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll hold it the cheese. But I mean that's

640
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: you know, fish every occasionally.

641
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: Do you ever have like a special occasion and have

642
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 2: like a bited cheese scate?

643
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I have. I have it once and

644
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: like my kid's birthday. I mean that happens a couple

645
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: of times a year, one or two times a year.

646
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: But it's it's it's so insignificant. It's not really any

647
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: meaningful part of my diet. It's not like I'm every

648
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: day I'm consuming you know, three pieces of fruit, just

649
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: a balance. I'm pretty much I just eat a bunch

650
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: of meat and eggs and that's pretty much it for

651
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: you of the time.

652
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 2: So I've been doing it. It's to me it's the

653
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 2: easiest thing. I think for me, though, I've learned to

654
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: think about food as energy and like I'm just trying

655
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: to and so I kind of eat the same thing

656
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: every day at lunch and dinner, and like, I just

657
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: like that because I try to take all the decisions

658
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,239
Speaker 2: out of my life. So for me, it's great. But

659
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: for a lot of people you had said earlier, they

660
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: have to kind of rethink the way they think about food.

661
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: They're addiction to food, and so I'm just curious, you know,

662
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: for everybody listening here that goes, Wow, it sounds pretty cool,

663
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: sounds great, but I could never do that. So what

664
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: do you think is the biggest obstacle that holds people

665
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: back from being able to Just because the diet is

666
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: so simple, you could just go to Wendy's and just

667
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: get a patty. It's like, it's the easiest thing in

668
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: the world. What advice do you have for people who

669
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: would want to try it but think they couldn't do that?

670
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's surprising. It's surprising because you think,

671
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,479
Speaker 1: when when I first have heard about this thing, like

672
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: ten years ago, there was crazy people eating all me.

673
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: I thought it was nuts. I literally did, And so

674
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: I tried it and you know, I was able to

675
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: do it for a month and was so eye opening,

676
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: how much better I felt that. I was like, there's

677
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: something here that's going to keep me doing this now.

678
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: Truth be told, I don't think of it as this

679
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: is something I'm going to do the rest of my life.

680
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: I might. I may, I don't know. I mean, I'm

681
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: eight years into this. There's a very good chance I might.

682
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: But I don't pigeonhole myself into that sort of ideology.

683
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: It's not ideology based, and I think if you think

684
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: about it, you know, if you have a reason to

685
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: do it. I mean if there's no if you're healthy

686
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: and fine and happy and everything feels great, hey, there's

687
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: no reason to change things. But if you're sick and suffering,

688
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: or if you're just curious if you could feel better,

689
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: it's worth doing for a couple of months, and you know,

690
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: you think about it. Most people do this, Like that

691
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: guy that had ulso of collasses. It took him two years,

692
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: he fixed his disease and now he has a diet

693
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: where he includes a lot of other foods in there.

694
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: I mean he's not eating junk, and he's not back

695
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: to that standard American garbage diet, but he's able to

696
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: have a more you know, robust and very dieting. In

697
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: our company, Rovero, I mean we literally take people. Some

698
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: people will put on a carnival diet, some we won't.

699
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: Some will just will just eliminate what we think is

700
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: most likely to be problematic for their particular condition based

701
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: on all the data we have. And you know, sometimes

702
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: people need to do it for three six months, you know,

703
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: and just think of it as a therapyic tool get

704
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: you where you want to be weight wise, health wise,

705
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: and then reassess and say, hey, can I add some

706
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: fruit backing? Can I add some rice? And can I

707
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: add some whole unprocessed foods back? And most people end

708
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: up doing that.

709
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 2: Yeah.

710
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

711
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 2: For me, it started with I read Tim Ferris's book

712
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: Tools for Titans, and he talked about how there was

713
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,239
Speaker 2: like people would have this like breakthrough and they got

714
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: this light energy and like this brain fog would be lifted.

715
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 2: And I was like, ooh, I want that. I wanted

716
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 2: like that performance gain and it was from the intermittent fasting.

717
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, that's tough. I really love breakfast.

718
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: I don't know if I could do that, but I

719
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: could do anything for two weeks. Do you try for

720
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 2: two weeks? And I haven't stopped. It's been a decade,

721
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: you know, and so maybe maybe people could just try

722
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: to like that bite sized chunk. And then it was

723
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 2: like okay, But then I eat lunch and then I

724
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: go downhill? So what's going on with my lunch? And

725
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 2: then it was like I kind of.

726
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: Picked the way at it, you know, Yeah, I mean

727
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: the way I started corner right. I literally did one meal.

728
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: I was like, I I woke up one more, and

729
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: I said, I'm gonna have steak and eggs for breakfast,

730
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna have a piece of toast. I'm

731
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: not gonna have some ores, I'm not gonna have a

732
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: couple of yoga and not kind have a piece of fruit.

733
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: And I got through the meal, I was like, you know, hey,

734
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 1: that wasn't that bad. Yeah, And then the next added

735
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: two meals, and I just kind of added on until

736
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: I got to a month and then, uh, you know,

737
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: I haven't looked back since then.

738
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 2: Now what about you know a lot of people on

739
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 2: the carnivore diet and back to the vegetables. So people

740
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: would say that you need to have vegetables, like you

741
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: need vitamin if you need the minerals things like that.

742
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: I think carnivores would say, well, you can get more

743
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: from that from from from cowparts, but more like livers

744
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 2: and organs and things like that. Yeah.

745
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if you want to look at the USRDA,

746
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: the recommended daily allowances of you know, how much vitamin

747
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: C and vitamin E and selenium and magnesium you're supposed

748
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: to get, you would look at the diet, you know,

749
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: particularly my not steak and eggs, you'd say there's some

750
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: there's some nutritional deficiencies there, and the reality is we

751
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: don't see that clinically appearing. But the other reality is

752
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: that like for instance, people say, oh, these vegetables and

753
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: first have all these quote unquote fighting nutrients in there.

754
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: They're so important, these tannins and polyphenols and stuff like that. Well, interestingly,

755
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: again Stefan van Vliet has done another study looking at

756
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: phyto nutrients that are found in beef, and actually beef

757
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: has a tremendous amount of fighter nutrients we never really

758
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: discussed before because we thought what was getting from the vegetables.

759
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: Cows have a much more diverse diet than I could

760
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: ever consume as a human being. They can go out

761
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: there and eat grass and weeds and leaves and everything

762
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: that would make me sick. Because they have such a

763
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,919
Speaker 1: diverse diet, those polyphenols and those other phio nutrients show

764
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: up in there, in there, in their flesh, in their

765
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: in their fat and their meat, and they're biol they're

766
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: very by available to us. So we actually get vegetables

767
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: from eating the cow that already ate them for us.

768
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: The plant based diet is the cow eats the plant yeah,

769
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 2: the cow cow eats the plants, they actually retain a

770
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: lot of those nutrients and then we get them and

771
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 2: it's more bioavailable for us.

772
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: Remember, plants are harder for us to dies. That's one

773
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: reason why plant based diets a lot of people will

774
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: lose weight on is because they literally cannot absorb the nutrition.

775
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: So again, like I said earlier, you're just crapping it

776
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: all out in the toilet. So it's you know, it's

777
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: a great way to lose weight, but it's kind of

778
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: it's kind of not very cost effective.

779
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: So I guess the question I'm asking is it important

780
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 2: to eat the livers and the kidneys, And.

781
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: Again that's a that's an assumption people make based on

782
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: what you need to get to the us RDA. So

783
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: like if you said I'm going to get us are

784
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: da of vitamin C sixty million rams a day or

785
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 1: something like that, You're like, you're gonna have a hard

786
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: time getting that from steak. You'd have to eat like

787
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: fifteen pounds of steak, which is no one's going to

788
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: do that, I mean outside some competitive eater. So the

789
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: question is what happens if you don't eat all that? Well,

790
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: the reality is we've not seen anybody with scurvy were

791
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: I mean literally is no one has had a legitimate,

792
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: bona fide case of scurvy. And now we've had if

793
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 1: not hundreds of thousands, you know, you know, at least

794
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: many tens of thousands people have done this that. And

795
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: the interesting thing is is that you know every like

796
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: every cell in my body. I mean, I use this analogy.

797
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: If I'm going to build a brick house, right and

798
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: I have an option to use straw and mud or

799
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: have bricks already built for me, I'd rather use the bricks.

800
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: It's more efficient, you know, every every like if if

801
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,919
Speaker 1: you say the cells in my body require vitamin C, well,

802
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: by definition those cells have to contain it. If they

803
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 1: need it, they have to contain it. So we know

804
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: that everything you need to run an animal cell exists

805
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: within an animal So I know, it's kind of almost

806
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: a totalogy, you know. And so by consuming an adequate

807
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: number of atom animal cells, you give yourself all the

808
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: building materials you need. We also know that, you know,

809
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: like I mentioned, like even the US already eight now

810
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: now recognize it's like zinc, for instance, zinc, we have

811
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: a we have a certain rda of zinc we're supposed

812
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: to get every day. If we're eating fighty cast which

813
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: comes from grains and beans and some of these other

814
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: plant makes products, and we eat one gram of fighter

815
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: cast to today, that literally doubles our zinc requirement. If

816
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: we two grams, it triples a zinc requirement. And so

817
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: because we're not, you know, putting all those substances, which

818
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: are so called anti nutrients in there, we just don't

819
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: need as much stuff to make up for it. Like

820
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: everybody's magnesium deficient. You know, it's like, why is everybody magnesium?

821
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: What's the soils depleted magnesium? Well, one of the things

822
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: we know is magnesium is a cofactor for carbohydrate metabolism.

823
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: And so if you're constantly consuming sixty seventy percent carbs

824
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: and also you're having hard time absorbing magnesium because you

825
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: have these lectins and phytic acid in there, not only

826
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: you're having a hard time are absorbing magnesium, you're also

827
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: you can't absorb you can't you have a higher requirement

828
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: for it, and so it's kind of a double whammy.

829
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: And so again, ultimately it is what it is. We

830
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of data on people just consuming meat.

831
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: We have a few studies out there, but there's been

832
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 1: I mean, gosh, almost no evidence it suggests anyone's developing

833
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: any significant vitamin deficiencies. And Harvard study that came out

834
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, they specifically looked at that. They

835
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: didn't find any evidence of nutrient deficiencies.

836
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: So I don't have to eat the liver if I

837
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 2: don't want to, you don't.

838
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: I don't need it. I don't need I don't eat liver.

839
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: I don't eat I don't take organ meat pills. I

840
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: think it's kind of a you know, kind of a

841
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: waste of money in my view. But anyway, all right,

842
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: last question. We go to the cattleman's feast. We got three, Uh, we.

843
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 2: Got three talent hockey. Who's gonna get to it first?

844
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, we got three.

845
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 1: We have to eat. I don't know the challenge that's friends.

846
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: How big they are. I can maybe do two. I

847
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: don't think I can do I can if if there's

848
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: nine pounds with the bone, the three pounds, so probably

849
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:31,959
Speaker 1: you probably got a pound and a half a bone

850
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: in there, seven and a half pounds. That's what I'm

851
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: not I'm not in I could eat two of them

852
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: for sure.

853
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I might.

854
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: I'm trying to, Like I said, I'm trying to, I'm

855
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Speaker 1: trying to lean down a little bit. So I'm not

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Speaker 1: really as pumped about that. There is a it's kind

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Speaker 1: of I interviewed this Gal Molly scholar years ago. Shake

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00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: twenty two pounds of beef in one sitting in, uh,

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00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: twenty two pounds a woman, you know, one hundred and

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00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: twenty pound a woman did that?

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Speaker 2: Soosle All right, So we'll linkd all your stuff down below.

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00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 2: But you have a clinic that you help people with

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00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: this and help good.

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00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: So it's called Rivero dot com. It's ri E V

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Speaker 1: E r O. We are a online digital clinic. We

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00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: have fully licensed physicians in all fifty states. We have

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Speaker 1: teams of health coaches. We have all kinds of supportive information.

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00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: If you have a metabolic disease, diabetes, obesity, hypertension, if

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00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: you have an autoimmune or an inflammatory condition you know,

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00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: Crohn's disease, rheumatortithritis, rias, and so on and so forth.

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00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: We got physicians that are there that get this stuff,

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00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 1: to understand nutrition, that are going to work with you

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00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: to hopefully get off your medications hopefully treat the root

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00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: cause of the disease, which is what we should be

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00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: doing in the first place in healthcare instead of this

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00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: quote unquote disease management model which we have been stuck

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Speaker 1: with for the last twenty thirty years.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yep, Okay.

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Speaker 1: With that, we're going to wrap it up. Thanks so much, awesome,

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00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Thank you.