Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
Speaker 1: welcome you back to another episode of Civic Cipher, where
Speaker 1: our mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, ramses.
Speaker 2: Job, he is Ramsey's jah, I am q Ward. You
Speaker 2: are tuned in the Civic Cipher and bid you are
Speaker 2: and listen. We know that there was an assassination attempt
Speaker 2: on the former president. We know that he has picked
Speaker 2: a VP. We know, we know, we know. If you
Speaker 2: want to hear our thoughts on this, our takes on it.
Speaker 2: We have done quite a number of things for the
Speaker 2: Black Information Network, and we've shared a lot on our
Speaker 2: social media. Today, however, we are going to be talking
Speaker 2: about some things that we've been wanting to get to
Speaker 2: for this show. The first one, we are going to
Speaker 2: answer the question why are all the black kids sitting
Speaker 2: together at the lunch table right. We're going to have
Speaker 2: a conversation about culture, conversation about race, and a conversation
Speaker 2: about the difference and how you can find yourself welcome
Speaker 2: at that lunch table. For the second part of the show,
Speaker 2: we are going to be talking about what it means
Speaker 2: to be blinded by privilege. This is another thing that
Speaker 2: folks have a tough time with.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like this statement, can't see the forest
Speaker 1: from the trees, you can't see the picture from inside
Speaker 1: the frame, that sort of thing. So we are going
Speaker 1: to break down those two things, especially because just in
Speaker 1: terms of conceptual topics, these are things that we've needed
Speaker 1: to get to. So my hope is that the show
Speaker 1: doesn't sound dated because again we've addressed some of the
Speaker 1: goings on in media, but this is something that we've
Speaker 1: needed to get to because we feel like that is
Speaker 1: more consistent with the premise of this show right now.
Speaker 1: So before we get there, as always, we are going
Speaker 1: to start off with some Ebony excellence, shall we? I
Speaker 1: think we shall.
Speaker 2: Today's Ebney Excellence is sponsored by Actively Black. There is
Speaker 2: Greatness in our DNA. Visit actively black dot com. Today's
Speaker 2: story coming from Ebony magazine. For over four decades, Captain
Speaker 2: Teresa Claiborne has set out to not only rewrite the
Speaker 2: history books in the world of aviation, but to also
Speaker 2: leave a profound legacy that will serve as a blueprint
Speaker 2: for generations to come. A storied career that includes becoming
Speaker 2: the first African American female pilot in the United States
Speaker 2: Air Force in nineteen eighty two, being the first black
Speaker 2: woman to serve as a command pilot and instructor for
Speaker 2: the Boeing KC one five Strado tanker, and the second
Speaker 2: black woman to be hired by United Airlines as a
Speaker 2: commercial pilot. Claiborne recently took her final flight as she
Speaker 2: soared into her next chapter. I'm sorry retirement. God bless
Speaker 2: her for that. The flight took off last week from
Speaker 2: Jerseys EWR International Airport as it headed to Lisbon, Portugal,
Speaker 2: making her final return back to New Jersey on May
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Captain Claibourne recalls the emotions felt as
Speaker 2: she got into the cockpit for her last commercial flight.
Speaker 2: She said that quote taking my final commercial flight was
Speaker 2: a bittersweet experience, She told Ebony. There was a profound
Speaker 2: sense of accomplishment and pride in having navigated a successful career,
Speaker 2: coupled with a touch of sadness knowing that a significant
Speaker 2: chapter of my life was closing. I felt immense gratitude
Speaker 2: for all people who supported me throughout my journey and
Speaker 2: for the opportunity to ensure or inspire future generations of aviators.
Speaker 2: Stories like hers are important for so many obvious reasons,
Speaker 2: us as fathers understanding that our children need to see
Speaker 2: people in those places to know that they can and
Speaker 2: should aspire to get there one day themselves.
Speaker 1: I love this. That's such a fantastic story. Okay, why
Speaker 1: are all the black kids sitting together at the lunch table?
Speaker 1: And this is this is just how we're broaching this subject.
Speaker 1: But this could be a number This could be asked
Speaker 1: a number of ways. Why are all the black kids
Speaker 1: sitting at the back of the bus laughing? Why are
Speaker 1: all the Hispanic kids congregating at the handball courts every
Speaker 1: day at lunchtime? This is like high school mentality? Or
Speaker 1: why are all the the black employees? Why do they
Speaker 1: all take their their breaks in the parking lot at
Speaker 1: the same time every day? This sorts of thing, right,
Speaker 1: And my understanding, you know, having lived in this country,
Speaker 1: is that when a non black person sees black people congregating,
Speaker 1: rather than seeing that as a celebration of culture, as
Speaker 1: letting their hair down in a place that's familiar around
Speaker 1: people in audience that is familiar, it feels like that
Speaker 1: group is somehow intentionally excluding them. The observer right. Same
Speaker 1: thing holds true with you know, when you're looking at
Speaker 1: Hispanic people and they're talking in Spanish or something like that,
Speaker 1: or in.
Speaker 2: More straightforward examples HBCUs. That's a great Black fraternities and sororities.
Speaker 2: You know, the Fearless Fund that was set up to
Speaker 2: provide funding for minority women entrepreneurs or founders, all of
Speaker 2: these things, Black Student Union, the NAACP, we can go on.
Speaker 2: All of these organizations created out of the necessity for
Speaker 2: there to be a safe place for excluded groups, and
Speaker 2: that WE has somehow been flipped to be an exclusionary
Speaker 2: term itself instead of the self reaffirming inclusive WE. So
Speaker 2: those all those organizations that we just named, when they
Speaker 2: say we, they mean that very inclusively for people who
Speaker 2: are otherwise excluded from every other space that exists.
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, and I respect that for non black people
Speaker 1: when you're looking at black people congregating in the lunch room.
Speaker 1: Because that's the example that we're going to go with.
Speaker 1: Most everyone's had that experience at high school. You see
Speaker 1: all the black kids sitting at the lunch table, and
Speaker 1: they sit there every day and they laugh, and you
Speaker 1: don't you're not in on the joke, right, so you
Speaker 1: feel like, am I a part of am I what
Speaker 1: they're laughing at? You feel like, how come I can't
Speaker 1: sit there? Why does that feel so exclusive? These people
Speaker 1: are excluding me? Right? And this is a real thing.
Speaker 1: I realized that you know, you might you the listener
Speaker 1: might not have had that direct interpretation of your experience,
Speaker 1: but you understand that some people may have.
Speaker 2: Well, when your lived experience has provided you with inclusion
Speaker 2: at every step, when you step into a space that
Speaker 2: seems to exclude you, you feel it in a very,
Speaker 2: very pronounced way. They're used to walking in a space
Speaker 2: or into a room that is not curated specifically for you.
Speaker 1: Well said, keep going? How dare they keep going?
Speaker 2: Is the type of feeling that I think people get,
Speaker 2: And I think we'll touch on that actually in the
Speaker 2: second segment of our show.
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, absolutely so. I wanted to paint that picture
Speaker 1: for you because I feel like it's important to dissect this.
Speaker 1: Those small groups congregating and they look the same or similar,
Speaker 1: I should say, oftentimes those groups are a segment of
Speaker 1: the culture that exists on a given campus or in
Speaker 1: a given environment. Right, it might be work, it might
Speaker 1: be school, it might be whatever. But what you're seeing
Speaker 1: is not necessarily race. You're seeing culture, right. Culture is
Speaker 1: something that you can celebrate, and culture and race often
Speaker 1: go hand in hand because you tend to have the
Speaker 1: same culture as people who look like you. That's a tendency.
Speaker 1: But these two things are very different. And the more
Speaker 1: you come to respect and understand and maybe even celebrate
Speaker 1: a culture, that is the degree to which you might
Speaker 1: find yourself welcomed. And not because someone has to welcome you,
Speaker 1: but you generally don't feel as tense walking past the
Speaker 1: group every day, right, you might feel a little bit
Speaker 1: more welcome than that circle, in the same way that
Speaker 1: if you learned Spanish and you overheard some people speaking Spanish,
Speaker 1: it might not feel as scary because you know what
Speaker 1: they're saying. Indeed, you might not feel like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: are they talking about it? And if they are, you
Speaker 1: would be able to pick up on you, so you
Speaker 1: can read between the lines instead of just defaulting to
Speaker 1: fear and anger.
Speaker 2: And honestly, as an English speaking American, I've had that
Speaker 2: bit of being used to walking in spaces where everybody
Speaker 2: speaks English and there's an entitlement that comes with that,
Speaker 2: and then walking into spaces where there is a group
Speaker 2: speaking the language most comfortable for them. That's the thing
Speaker 2: that I've heard Americans get mad at people speaking their
Speaker 2: native language and their presence. And I flipped this scenario
Speaker 2: every time I hear it. If you were in a
Speaker 2: foreign land where your language was not the language of
Speaker 2: the native speakers, and you heard someone speaking English, imagine
Speaker 2: how excited you would be, And imagine it's someone you know.
Speaker 2: You guys are going to engage in a excited, exuberant
Speaker 2: conversation in your native tongue because not only is it
Speaker 2: most natural to you, but the relief finally I can
Speaker 2: speak and freely without having to translate in my own
Speaker 2: mind this language that is not native to me.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So you know, my children, as some of our listeners know,
Speaker 2: are Black and Mexican. My son's first language is English,
Speaker 2: my daughter's first language is Spanish. So I have that dichotomy.
Speaker 1: In my own home.
Speaker 2: And there are times when they have family over and
Speaker 2: I have no idea what's being said, and I've had
Speaker 2: that moment of wondering, was that conversation and that laughter
Speaker 2: all about me? Which is kind of a crazy way
Speaker 2: to process things, but it comes from then almost entitlement
Speaker 2: and being used to always being included, even in something
Speaker 2: as simple as a conversation in a language that you
Speaker 2: don't speak.
Speaker 1: See and and I think that's really important is because
Speaker 1: understanding where your default setting is, Understanding that did I
Speaker 1: go to fear? Did I go to concern? Is the
Speaker 1: ready assumption that they are talking bad about me, that
Speaker 1: they're laughing at me, is the ready assumption that I
Speaker 1: am somehow being intentionally excluded from this conversation. That is
Speaker 1: a great point to catch yourself and then rework your
Speaker 1: mental framework around your predicament, because the truth of the
Speaker 1: matter is you pointed out a great example. Que imagine
Speaker 1: being in another country where everyone around you is speaking
Speaker 1: Let's say Vietnam. I've been to Vietnam, so I love Vietnam.
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful place. It is a beautiful place.
Speaker 2: The way when trying to go back, let me know,
Speaker 2: Southeast Asia is wow.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, if I'm walking around in the mall
Speaker 1: in Vietnam, I'm hearing Vietnamese everywhere. The moment I hear English,
Speaker 1: it could be in a commercial, it can be just
Speaker 1: a conversation across the way. My ears perk up right
Speaker 1: and there's someone that I can talk to, and we'll see,
Speaker 1: we'll learn a little bit later that that language is
Speaker 1: a big part of culture. Right, I'm going to use
Speaker 1: the word that. I don't know if this is the
Speaker 1: right way to say this, and I've had a back
Speaker 1: and forth relationship with this word, but we will say
Speaker 1: it used to be called ebonics. More recently it's called
Speaker 1: African American vernacular English AAVE, basically black talk. Don't ever
Speaker 1: say that I can say that I'm black. You don't
Speaker 1: ever say that. You can say it, I can say it,
Speaker 1: you don't say that. But that's like a language unto ourselves.
Speaker 2: Right, there's an unfortunate thing happening with regards to quote
Speaker 2: unquote our langue whiche. It's becoming homogenized because of the Internet,
Speaker 2: because of social media, people who are not a part
Speaker 2: of the culture speak like they are. And I was
Speaker 2: listening to an article on a podcast that I listened
Speaker 2: to Shout to Shout Out to Bomani Jones where they
Speaker 2: were speaking about how once upon a time, you knew
Speaker 2: where you were with the person based on that shared vernacular.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: And now a middle aged white person might use some
Speaker 2: teenage black people vernacular because they saw it on their
Speaker 2: social media and they've co opted it. And now you
Speaker 2: have no idea when speaking to someone, if you can't
Speaker 2: interact with them that we are not the same.
Speaker 1: In a way that's most comfortable. I know exactly what
Speaker 1: you mean, and I'm glad you brought that up, because, yeah,
Speaker 1: the homogenization of what we would consent like it is
Speaker 1: a distinct language. Right now, you're hearing me speak to
Speaker 1: you in the King's English, right, this is a language
Speaker 1: that I won't say I've mastered, but I have a
Speaker 1: pretty solid command of the English language. If you heard
Speaker 1: me and Q talking with these mics off and there
Speaker 1: were these cameras was off and there was no lights,
Speaker 1: we sound like we're speaking the way we normally speak. Right.
Speaker 2: Q is from Detroit, Michigan. RAS is from Compton, California.
Speaker 2: So make no mistake. You could imagine, yeah, Nobe, you're
Speaker 2: using our same.
Speaker 1: Voices, but the words that we use, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just a little bit more relaxed, right. And this is
Speaker 1: true when I'm around my family. This is true when
Speaker 1: I'm around people where the steaks aren't high, where there's
Speaker 1: no one to judge me. These people come from where
Speaker 1: I come from. If I ate expired oatmeal, they ate
Speaker 1: it too, you know what I mean. If I got
Speaker 1: food stamps, they got it too. There's no there's no
Speaker 1: big eyes in little US, right. So now we're starting
Speaker 1: to delineate culture, right and again being in a space
Speaker 1: with someone that you're comfortable with, where you can speak
Speaker 1: your own language, and it's it's a little bit easier
Speaker 1: to follow when we talk about we're in the southwest
Speaker 1: of the United States, so we're close to Mexico down here.
Speaker 1: It's it's very easy for us to use Mexican people
Speaker 1: who speak Spanish as the example here because we've grown
Speaker 1: up around well I've certainly grown up around Mexican people,
Speaker 1: but there's a significant population of Mexican books in in
Speaker 1: Detroit as well, and Middle Eastern people in Detroit as well.
Speaker 2: And so one time for south West Detroit, one time
Speaker 2: for dearborn Michigan. There you go shout out to Michaldean friends,
Speaker 2: my Palestinian friends all day, and of course my Mexican
Speaker 2: family there you go to see.
Speaker 1: Look all there, right, So have this come up. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna share a bit from you, a bit from
Speaker 1: Cora I know, don't jump down my throat, but I
Speaker 1: just came across this and I thought it was interesting
Speaker 1: how this came about, So I'm gonna share just a
Speaker 1: bit the question says, I saw black students sitting separately
Speaker 1: from white students and dining halls of the University of Delaware.
Speaker 1: Why was that? Do blacks feel ill at ease near whites?
Speaker 1: And there was a respec from a gentleman named brother Nikosi. Again,
Speaker 1: I don't know who this is, but you know, I
Speaker 1: think that the kids are stopped conversation going, so you
Speaker 1: don't have to necessarily take these words. But you know, again,
Speaker 1: we're starting our conversation here. Brother Nikosi says, I was
Speaker 1: also visiting that day at the university, and what I
Speaker 1: noticed was that all the white kids were sitting separate
Speaker 1: and apart from the black kids. Kids feel ill at
Speaker 1: ease around blacks. Historically, there is a group that has
Speaker 1: told another group that they could only sit in one
Speaker 1: area of the bus, not eat in the same restaurant,
Speaker 1: use the same bathroom, etc. Do black people have a
Speaker 1: history of that. It might have been a nice gesture,
Speaker 1: considering that history for the white kids to come over
Speaker 1: and then invite the black kids to sit with them.
Speaker 1: So obviously it's being funny and kind of turning the
Speaker 1: situation on its head. Also, graciously understand if the black
Speaker 1: kids declined, because if those white kids had learned anything
Speaker 1: about black history while they were in high school, they
Speaker 1: would have come to the same conclusion that many black
Speaker 1: people have that racial healing is a process, not an event.
Speaker 1: So to answer your question, given the historical relationship and
Speaker 1: current climate, maybe they did feel a little ill at ease.
Speaker 1: It's possible, lastly, to be of most benefit for you,
Speaker 1: the question has to come has to become why did
Speaker 1: you feel the onus of mingling was on them under
Speaker 1: the circumstances. If you can be honest with yourself as
Speaker 1: to the framing of this question, you will have moved
Speaker 1: forward as a person. So that's a couple of ways
Speaker 1: to process a situation like that, not mad in any
Speaker 1: of those. And again we're providing thought experiments just so
Speaker 1: that you can again grow as a person. But also
Speaker 1: our hope is that we're empowering people who can empower
Speaker 1: other people.
Speaker 2: And I love his proposition of critical thinking there. He
Speaker 2: didn't shoot this person down. He just raised some very
Speaker 2: straightforward questions as to the reframing of the question itself,
Speaker 2: but not just the words on the paper or the
Speaker 2: words in that forum, the thoughts that led to that question.
Speaker 1: Why did your mind it that way? And here are
Speaker 1: some reasons. Who's responsible, who's responsible for why why it
Speaker 1: looks like this, and who's responsible for.
Speaker 2: Fixing who should actually be accountable with here?
Speaker 1: Right? Right? And and that's a great place to start,
Speaker 1: because now we're going to talk indeed about culture and
Speaker 1: race and the difference. So for us we understand, I
Speaker 1: want to be very careful when I say this. I
Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, I'll say it this way. I don't
Speaker 1: know if in all of the years that I've been alive,
Speaker 1: if I have ever been at an event or anything
Speaker 1: like that to celebrate my race. But I have, and
Speaker 1: I know this full well, been to several events places,
Speaker 1: et cetera to celebrate my culture. Right, So race and
Speaker 1: culture are two different things, right, because I so, how
Speaker 1: about this culture? Culture is black? American race is black? Okay,
Speaker 1: there are black people who are in Brazil, and black
Speaker 1: people of course in Africa, black people in the Middle East,
Speaker 1: black people in Southeast Asia. I have nothing in common
Speaker 1: with them. I don't speak the language. I don't know
Speaker 1: too much or nothing about what they got going on.
Speaker 1: The only thing that we have in common is the
Speaker 1: fact that we share a significant amount of melanin in
Speaker 1: our skin.
Speaker 2: The interesting thing about race as a social construct is
Speaker 2: that it's lacking in so many ways of the connective
Speaker 2: tissue that people think they are assigning when they say
Speaker 2: all of those people are black. Denzel Washington made an
Speaker 2: example when I asked about, you know, race versus culture
Speaker 2: or color versus culture, and the example that he used
Speaker 2: was the sound of a straightening calm going through You're
Speaker 2: the hair of a child where he grew up. That
Speaker 2: is not a race thing. That is a culture there.
Speaker 2: And that's just one example. But I remember that's sticking out.
Speaker 2: That is perfect so poignantly, like Yo, everyone I know
Speaker 2: knows what that sound. Then I get this conversation. However,
Speaker 2: RAMS just knew exactly where it was. I got to
Speaker 2: give my hair straighten. My sisters take care of my.
Speaker 1: Hair for me. You know, for those that have seen
Speaker 1: my face, you know that I have a big afro
Speaker 1: that I wear. My sisters care for my hair. You know,
Speaker 1: my my friend's moms care for my hair, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And this is the part of my life.
Speaker 1: And they know that smell, and I know that smell,
Speaker 1: and they know this sound. And I'm old school, so
Speaker 1: I remember the hot comb used to have to go
Speaker 1: on this stuff, set it on the stove. Yeah, sto,
Speaker 1: yeah it is. Yeah. So let me obviously we're talking
Speaker 1: about our lived experience, but let me share with you
Speaker 1: some like real definitions that you can take with you.
Speaker 1: So culture, the first definition says the arts and other
Speaker 1: manifestations of human intellectual achievement, regarded collectively. An example is
Speaker 1: twentieth century pop culture. The second definition says the customs, arts,
Speaker 1: social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or
Speaker 1: other social group. An example is Caribbean culture. Right now,
Speaker 1: let's look at race. The first definition says, and the
Speaker 1: only will that we'll share each of the major groupings
Speaker 1: into which humankind is considered in various theories or context
Speaker 1: to be divided on the basis of physical characteristics or
Speaker 1: shared ancestry. Right, so, those are two different things. And
Speaker 1: what you may be seeing when you see a small
Speaker 1: group of people who all look the same, sitting in
Speaker 1: the corner of the cafeteria or some equivalent. In your
Speaker 1: journey is you are seeing a celebration of these people
Speaker 1: partaking in enriching, in developing, withdrawing from exchanging with others
Speaker 1: who share indeed their culture.
Speaker 2: And you might even see some people that don't share
Speaker 2: physical similarity, absolutely that absolutely experienced the same cultural, lived experience.
Speaker 1: So again, there's twentieth century pop culture, right, So if
Speaker 1: you go to the pop club after school, you're going
Speaker 1: to see a lot of different people, right. But again,
Speaker 1: it's often easy to find folks that share your language.
Speaker 1: You know your upbringing and they know the smell of
Speaker 1: a hot comb, and so don't fill off put by it,
Speaker 1: learn in and grow