1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. You know, 2 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: whether you're reading the news headlines in nineteen sixty three 3 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: or twenty nineteen, you quickly realize the world is ending 4 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: for someone somewhere every day. That's a heavy way to start, 5 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: but we're going somewhere with it. Hi, I'm ben, Hey, 6 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: I'm no, It's true, man. I mean, we think about 7 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: the Great Depression, right, but if there's a Great Depression, 8 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: surely there must be dozens, if not hundreds, of minor depressions, 9 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: many depressions, micro depressions. Recessions is a word that's often 10 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: bandied about, and you know, depending on where you grew up, 11 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: you probably heard various pundits in your country or province 12 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: or your state claiming that a depression rivaling the Great 13 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: Depression was looming imminently on the horizon, looming. Indeed, like 14 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: our own super producer, Casey Pegram, who looms large, the 15 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: man has swag. And speaking of swag, let's talk a 16 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: little bit about the nineteen twenties in the United States, 17 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: also called the Roaring twenties, right, the Gilded Age. That's 18 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: what it sounded like all the time, because at this 19 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: time there was a woefull divide between the halves and 20 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: the have nots in the US, and everything seemed like, 21 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: depending on your position in society, everything seemed like it 22 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: was growing at this frenetic, hectic place until that is, 23 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: the stock market crashed in October of nineteen twenty nine. 24 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 1: What's the thing? I mean? There was this sense and 25 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: everything was just hunky dar right, thought well to do? 26 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: Would spend them money hand o a fest on luxury 27 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: goods and dancing and all of that stuff. And the 28 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: people that had less money credit was relatively easy to 29 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: come by. They were spending hand over fist with money 30 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: they did not actually own. And as you can see, 31 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: this situation was unsustainable. Eventually, the bubble, as bubbles do, 32 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: went and our country entered what is called today the 33 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: Great Depression. By nineteen thirty two, the economy and contracted 34 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: by thirty one and an estimated thirteen million people were 35 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: left unemployed. For comparison, that's that's like of the workforces. 36 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: Franklin Delano Roosevelt took office in ninety two. He started 37 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: something called the New Deal, which was designed to boost 38 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: federal spending, create government jobs for people who couldn't get 39 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: private sector jobs and ultimately led to some really amazing 40 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: cultural progress and great public works here in the US. 41 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: But today's story is not about that. Today's story is 42 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: about how people managed to get by when they found 43 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: themselves in a situation where the bank they counted on 44 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: was closed. The currency that they were so used to, 45 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: the US dollar, was gone. Yeah, like poof, it's gone overnight. 46 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: This thing that we thought we could rely on, that 47 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: would always be there for us when we woke up 48 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: the next morning was now really shown to be this 49 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: sort of ephemeral idea. And the Great Depression was worldwide 50 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: in its UH, in its scope. It wasn't just I mean, 51 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's a it's a chain reaction because everything 52 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: is interconnected because of trade. Um. And this is how 53 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: the US Department of Commerce characterized the Great Depression. UH 54 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: in general. It has like a list that they they 55 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: officially used to break this down. H and there were 56 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: nine points and let's let's put them up and round robin, 57 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: let's do it. Um. So Number one an unemployed population 58 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: estimated at over twelve million. This, of course is in 59 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: the United States portion of mean. Number two, a serious 60 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: agricultural situation resulting from excessive production, ruinous ruinously low prices, 61 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: and large debts. Number three, a financial and credit system 62 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: in grave danger of collapse. Number four a large internal 63 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: debt on the government side. Number five almost insurmountable barriers 64 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: to foreign trade. Number six a quote perplexing foreign debt situation. 65 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: I love that word. It's also very vague, but it 66 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: just means like, huh, what are we gonna do about this? 67 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: This is quite perplexed. It also just candidly sounds like 68 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: somewhat at the Department of Commerce said, how can we 69 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: explain this in one sentence? Yeah, because we can't do 70 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: the whole five page paper, right, They really are going 71 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: for a brevity kind of thinking. Number seven an unbalanced 72 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: federal budget. Number eight, disorganized state and municipal finances. Number 73 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: nine in increasing disorder, and an almost complete lack of 74 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: confidence on the part of the people. That's kind of 75 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: key here, isn't it? Right? See? This is this is 76 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: the problem. A lot of the larger financial things we're 77 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: talking about wouldn't occur to a lot of the people 78 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: in the US on the ground at the time. You 79 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Say, Oh, well, for in debt 80 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: is complicated. Excuse me. Four in debt is perplexing. But 81 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: if you are, you know, living in an agricultural community 82 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: somewhere in Oklahoma, you will be more concerned with what 83 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: is happening in your neck of the global woods. So 84 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: the problem that people were having, in addition to all 85 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: this economic uncertainty, this lack of faith in the economic system, 86 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: and the very difficult situation of trying to find a 87 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: job when you were unemployed, the thing that really bugged 88 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: them is that there was very little physical money in 89 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: the hands of people. And because people didn't know, Like, 90 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: if you had, you know, ten one dollar bills and 91 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: you thought it might be months or even years before 92 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: you ever saw any physical currency again, you wouldn't use that. 93 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,239 Speaker 1: You would try to barter, you would try to borrow, 94 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: you would hoard the physical currency you had, and that 95 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: slows down the economic circulatory system. This is kind of 96 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: the era of stuffing your mattress with cash by keeping 97 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: it on hand. Let's let's let's do a little metaphors 98 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: that we can all understand. Twinkies. Okay, let's say twinkies 99 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: their currency. Uh if if everyone's holding onto the twinkies 100 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: and just eating themselves with their supply of twinkies. Little 101 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: by little, we don't see twinkies in circulation anymore than 102 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: twinkies kind of lose their value or lose their meaning 103 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: in terms of the way it's interconnected in our society. Right, 104 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: such is the case with cash. So you have to 105 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: replace twinkies with something else. You have to replace cash 106 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: with something else because no one's feeding it back into 107 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: the system. So what you have to do you have 108 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: to create a new delicious snack. But wait, someone might say, 109 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: what about banks, isn't it their job to keep money flowing? 110 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: That's that's a good that's a good point. What about 111 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: the Hostess company? Why aren't they putting more twinkies out 112 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: into the world. So the problem is that these banks 113 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: can only do their job when they are open, and 114 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: a lot of them closed permanently. It was both an 115 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: effect of the early stage of the Great Depression and 116 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: it was an exacerbating factor. It got so bad that 117 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty three, President Roosevelt declared a banking holiday 118 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: uh quote unquote. This shut down the entire national banking system. 119 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: But between nineteen thirty and that date, in March nineteen 120 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: thirty three, about half the banks in the United states 121 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: had either permanently closed or merged with others, and the 122 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: ones that were still around cut back their deposits and loans, 123 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: and they also started, you know, basically hoarding money. So 124 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: everybody's hoarding cash, and of course it makes total sense, 125 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: you know, um, without getting to personal, A lot of 126 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: my family is from um rural Appalachia or Appalachia however 127 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: you prefer to say it. And I had relatives who 128 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: were who still didn't trust it, still didn't trust banks, 129 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: which was crazy growing up with UH with those people, 130 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: and yes they were older, but they did have stories 131 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: about you know, baring stuff in the ground or hiding 132 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: it in a creek or a creek somewhere and then 133 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: coming back and finding it years later. The problem is 134 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: that when no one is spending money, and and money anyway, 135 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: the concept of economy is arguably a religion, but money 136 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: is an article of faith, right and when no one 137 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: believes in it, then it loses its social value. So 138 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: this is his deflation. The money is not in the system, 139 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: no one if people probably have some cash stashed away somewhere, 140 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: but they're never going to touch it. And with less 141 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: and less physical cash available, and with money worth less 142 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: and less than before they did. Uh, they did as 143 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: you say, No, they turned to alternatives. So Ben, just 144 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: just to backtrack a little bit. We we for we 145 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: foreshadowed this idea of alternatives. I really tried to make 146 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: my Twinkie metaphor work. I'm gonna let that one die. 147 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: I'm fine with that. Um. I tried my best. But 148 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: here's my question. Why wasn't the government pushing more money 149 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: back into circulation? Like? Why why was it entirely about 150 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: the individuals? Is it because it had deflated so much 151 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: because of that loss of confidence that what would be 152 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: the point? No one's using it anyway. What are they 153 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: just gonna do go door to door and say here's 154 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of money, can you please spend it? Yeah, 155 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: it's a good question, right, Um. And I didn't think 156 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: that Twinkie metaphor was bad at all. I don't think 157 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: you should beat yourself up. Man. I appreciate that, Ben. 158 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: So there are a couple of intervening variables or or 159 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: contributing factors. Maybe would be a better way to say it. 160 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: First is that we know from various cases throughout history, 161 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: and some that happened well before the Great Depression, that 162 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: when you just start minting money, and you just start 163 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: printing money, minting coins of printing money, then people are 164 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: aware that there's much more money out there, and that 165 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: that drives these economic problems to even further extremest sense. So, honestly, 166 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: would have just doubled down on the problem, it would 167 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: have devalued the currency even more, because now it's everywhere. 168 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: People are literally handing it out in the streets, and 169 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: it's like, wow, well, I definitely don't believe in this. 170 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: I need there to be some scarcity in order for 171 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: me to feel like my money is worth something. You know, 172 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: I learned about these kind of tendencies at a young age. 173 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if I ever told you this is weird. 174 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: This is a weird, very short story. One time when 175 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: I was when I was a little bit younger, I 176 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: was I was going through some tough times in my life, 177 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: and I asked my asked my dad, who's appeared on 178 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: this show. I said, I said, hey, hey, pops, do 179 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: you think I'll ever actually be a millionaire? And then 180 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: he said, well, you know, son, you could be a 181 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: millionaire tomorrow because money is just an idea and they 182 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: can always print more and then if you're a millionaire, 183 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: everybody will be a millionaire. It'll be horrible, it'll be worthless. 184 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: And I was like, wow, it's cold water man. Seriously, 185 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: was that like, what does that make you feel better? 186 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: Or where would that kind of like introduce a whole 187 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: new existential crisis to you? That was It's a very 188 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: good point. Yeah, it is a good point, but it's 189 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 1: also kind of like what's the point, right? So you know, 190 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: maybe these people were in a why bother situation. This 191 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: idea that you could not trust Uncle Sam's coupons lead 192 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: people to say, well, we have to we have to 193 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,479 Speaker 1: do something, because you know, before the era of currency, 194 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: the most popular form of transactional medium is going to 195 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: be bartering. Just straight, I have eight twinkies, but I 196 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: really want um the Hostess cupcakes with the little lattice 197 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: of white icing on them. Ding dongs? Are those ding dogs? Hos? 198 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: Little debbies? Maybe they're little debbies. They look like cupcakes, 199 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: their Hostess cupcakes. Thine, they're ding dongs? Really, what a 200 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: terrible name. It's a really bad name. It sounds like 201 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: a depression era snack us. Um. Well, usually I'm gonna 202 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask I'm gonna beg Casey to show us 203 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: a little a little clip of remember that scene in 204 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: Batman the movie, the motion picture? Who do you Trust? 205 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: Who do you trust? Can we get little Prince k 206 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: you real quick chest? And now it's time for who 207 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: do you trust? Money? Money? Money? Who do you trust me? 208 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: I'm giving away free money and where stuff that? Man? Yeah, 209 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: that's the scene where the Joker is passing out money 210 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: and everyone's freaking out and gathering it up off the streets. 211 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: Then they look at it and realize it has the 212 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: Joker's face on it, sort of like your bend bucks. Right, Yes, 213 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: but uh, but that's a work of fiction. Bend bucks 214 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: are very real. Okay, that's fair, And in a way, 215 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: this episode is kind of an advertisement for for the 216 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: validity of these sorts of things, because, aside from being 217 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: the only kind of currency you can trust in these 218 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: our modern days and uncertain times, uh, bend bucks are 219 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: something that exists with historical precedent. No, what what is script? Yeah? Exactly, 220 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: the question of who do you trust? You don't trust 221 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam. You don't trust the big banks because they 222 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: screwed you over, they screwed the pooch and they might close. 223 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: They might close. They're also not around. They're not there 224 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: for you. Right Who is there for you? Maybe at 225 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: least at arm's length is your local municipality, perhaps even 226 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,719 Speaker 1: your local shopkeeper, your local economy that isn't there for 227 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: you to see and to interact with. So script is cash. 228 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: Cash is even a weird kind of ephemeral term. It 229 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: is currency issued by local governments or businesses or even 230 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: human people individuals. We agree that it means something because 231 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: we say it does. And I don't know how they 232 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: did the math where it, you know, equals certain you know, 233 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: the amount of goods they had to trade or whatever, 234 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: but it obviously they had to exchange it for something, 235 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: and there had to be a system that gave it 236 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: some value that they agreed upon. Yeah, it is all 237 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: faith based, isn't it. Yeah, it's an iou and script 238 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: has been used in various various ways throughout history. It 239 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: reminds me of that one, uh, that one great song, 240 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: what is it? Sixteen tons? How do you get company store? Yeah? 241 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: Company store? He'll get a company store, which is kind 242 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: of inherently userous because the idea of the company store 243 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: is that you're working off your debt and you're getting 244 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: goods in exchange for your labor, but you're not really 245 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: able to ever work your way out of debt because 246 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: it's the line another day older. Yeah, because it's it's 247 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: a reference to businesses wherein someone would have to they 248 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: would work at this business, they would be paid not 249 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: in cash, but in a script that was only usable 250 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: at a store that was also owned by the business 251 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: for which you were employed. Yeah. I mean, a modern 252 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: day example that I think something is being done about 253 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: is a lot of lift or Uber drivers will lease 254 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: their car through lift or Uber and then the money 255 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: they make driving for that service literally goes back to 256 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: paying off that note. But it's an incredibly inflated UH 257 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: interest rates, so it's it's kind of like it's a 258 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: losing proposition. Although on a good note, there was recently 259 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: a court case maybe nothing, maybe not in this country 260 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: yet where someone was an Uber driver was decreed to 261 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: be an employee and not just an independent contractor. So 262 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: hopefully they'll get some more rights. But that's a good 263 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: you know, that's a good comparison. Didn't think about. UH. 264 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: Those are the ways we name two ways uber lift 265 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: and UH company stores. Those are the ways in which 266 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: script can be used to to hurt the employees, hurt 267 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: the proletariat. But in this case, script was used to 268 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: keep local economies going. Because it all goes back again, Casey, 269 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: who do you trust? Yeah, you're right, man, we're talking 270 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: about negative examples. This was a way to help economies exist, 271 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: and it was about trust. Yeah. Yeah. So, no matter 272 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: how well you know everyone in your community, no matter 273 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: how tighten it you are, it can be difficult to 274 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: exist completely on a barter system. So let's say there's 275 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: one family, um, one proprietor some some lady or some 276 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: guy owns the local general store, right, and they've been 277 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: extending credit to everyone in the community, and they decide 278 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: to start issuing script and their script let's say it's 279 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: uh Bandarino's General Goods and Sundry, and Bandarino's General Good 280 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: and Sundry issues script to the people, the good people 281 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: of the town of Bandarino, UH. And now they start 282 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: using it like cash. They don't just use it at 283 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: that store, though, they use it with one another. Okay, 284 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: here's the problem with bartering real quick is that it 285 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: can very quickly get into some intermediaries and complicated plot twist. 286 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: So let's say Nol that you are an eggman and 287 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: that you have an eggar and eggmun uh an enthusiasts. 288 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: You know a poultry farmer who specializes in eggs for 289 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: some for some reason, and you want to buy uh 290 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: some glue to fix something related to your business, a 291 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: shack or something. You want some culk or whatever. And 292 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: Casey being uh the glue man in town. UH, you 293 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: would be able to give him some eggs, but Casey 294 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: doesn't want glue. Instead, Casey wants a different good or service. 295 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: He wants someone like let's say I'm a blacksmith or 296 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: a ferrier. He wants someone to put uh to shoe 297 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: his horses right, And you say, look, I've got these eggs. 298 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: I just I need this glue. You know, stallms coming 299 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 1: in and then he says he says, look I am 300 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: lousy with eggs. You gotta give me something else. And 301 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: then you go to me and you say, look, I 302 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: got these eggs. Can I give you these eggs? And 303 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: you shoot this guy's horses and then he'll give me 304 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: this glue. So already now we have so many transactions 305 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: happening to and currency simplifies that. It absolutely simplifies that. 306 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: And this local UM or regional issued script would be 307 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: printed or carved or what have you, issued on a 308 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: various and sundry materials, everything from like wooden tokens, the 309 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: idea of a wooden nickel you know you ever heard 310 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: that one they'll take them, don't take them? Or a 311 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: fish skin, um parchment of some kind. UM. You know 312 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: you've heard of the idea of uh of in indigenous 313 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: cultures using things like seashells and currency. Yeah, that that 314 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: came back into into fashion here. UM you did have 315 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: you can look it up online and it's pretty amazing 316 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: because there's there are currency museums, I'm sure where you 317 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: can see dozens of these things, all different kinds UM. 318 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: Sort of like the early days of speculatory currency that 319 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about in previous episodes, right the two dollar 320 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: bill episode. I believe UM printed regular looking bills that 321 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: had uh in, that had markings on them and text 322 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: on them and images that would link them to a 323 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: specific market, let's call it, right, and they would be accepted, 324 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: you know, with open arms in these markets, and then 325 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: sometimes in regions outside of these markets, they'd accept them too, 326 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: but what would they do? They charge you those lift 327 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: or uber car loan rates right, right, So one band 328 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: Arino pieces of script, right that you usually use in 329 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: the good town of Bandarino. Uh, you can go to 330 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: the other town of Umberto Echoville and you can give 331 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: them that script, but they'll say, hey, this is worth 332 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: four of these equals one of the Umberto Echoville script 333 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: that we use. So now you are you have of 334 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: the buy empower used to this. So this kept local 335 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: businesses alive, but it also made the larger regions fragmented. 336 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: You can see an excellent collection of this script at 337 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: the Museum of American Finance, which is a real thing, 338 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: and you can see the various issuers. You can also, 339 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: and I think this is pretty fascinating to your point. 340 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: You can see the different materials that were used. We'll 341 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: just we can say a couple of examples. I gotta 342 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: tell you a lot of these look better than modern currency. 343 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,959 Speaker 1: One looks like kind of a monopoly bill Hepner sheepskin 344 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: script which is worth one dollar from nineteen thirty four, 345 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: I believe. And then did you see the one for 346 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: Mi Costa County, Michigan. And then then you have the 347 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: inside scoop on this. Give it to me. It's wonderful. 348 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: It's it's striking, it's bold. It's like the derrito if 349 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: a dorrito is a piece of currency. It's it's bright yellow, 350 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: and it looks like it's a four color print job. 351 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: They've got some great photos. And it's issued again, not 352 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: by the State of Michigan, not by the government of 353 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: the United States, but it is shoot buy the Macosta County, 354 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: authorized by their border supervisors, and it's almost like a 355 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: bond because the idea is, it says here on the currency. 356 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: The idea is that they will pay to the bearer 357 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: face value of this certificate at three percent per annum 358 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: from the date of issue, so adam per year. Got it. 359 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: So it's it's worth a dollar now. Let's say Casey 360 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: has one of these. It's worth a dollar now, and 361 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: then every year that he holds onto it, it's worth 362 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: three percent more than it was. So really what they're 363 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: doing is kind of investing. And again it's an IOU 364 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 1: with a baked in interest rate. Some of these were 365 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: almost like bonds of some kind, right, and then you 366 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: can also see some of the wooden things. There were 367 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: real wooden nickels or wooden token scripts. There's a wooden 368 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: dollar from North Bend, Oregon, and there's uh there there 369 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: are other wooden scripts from Washington. The point we're making 370 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: is that these were occurring in more than one state, 371 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. This was not just like 372 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: one innovative answer from one small town. No, absolutely not. 373 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: And it's interesting too because a lot of these, I mean, 374 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: they had to be hand issued or at least to 375 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 1: give them a sense of legitimacy. They were signed by officials, 376 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it looks it looks to me based 377 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: on the difference in the printing like this, this Washington 378 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: fish skin parchment script from nineteen thirty four has three 379 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: signatures on it. The base printing of the actual certificate 380 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 1: is blue and that the signatures are in black ink. 381 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: So I'm assuming that these were not just printed. They 382 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: were assigned by hand to give them real weight and legitimacy, 383 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: quite possibly because they were functioning as legal documents. That's 384 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: another thing. This stuff, when it happened, it didn't happen 385 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: because everybody in the country at the same time made 386 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: up a similar plan. A lot of people were arriving 387 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: at this process by what we call parallel thought, you know, 388 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: and that's why the script type. So the thing about 389 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: the US dollar, and think about most national currencies is 390 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: they all work the same way across the country. These 391 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: did not. These were different types of certificates, right. We 392 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: had payroll warrants, we had credit vouchers, UH, tax anticipation notes. 393 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: They worked in different ways, you know what I mean. 394 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: One thing was a dollar and it was always going 395 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: to be a dollar in your community. But the other 396 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: thing would be a dollar the first year, and then 397 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: it would accrue value over time like a bond, right. Absolutely. 398 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: And it's so interesting because considering how many different UH 399 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,199 Speaker 1: types of these there were, there's really no way to 400 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 1: figure out what the total volume and circulation was. Your 401 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: guests as good as mine, I mean, because they could 402 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: have there. Some of them might have really stuck around 403 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: for a minute and done well. Some of them might 404 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: have been so um niche and kind of for a 405 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: small community that they were, you never would have even 406 00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: heard about him. Some of them were probably pretty fly 407 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: by night. And I bet you there were some pretty 408 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: serious opportunities for scam artists in this situation as well. 409 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, A stranger comes to town, right, and 410 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: he issues a currency. I think what we do know, though, 411 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: isn't that about two hundred cities issued their own. That's right, 412 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: We we do know over two hundred issued them. But 413 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: when we it gets tricky when we try to evaluate 414 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: how much value these scripts represent and then put that 415 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: in dollar terms. There's one estimate that put it at 416 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: around a billion dollars, but you know, again that's that's speculation. However, 417 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: if you want to read more about this, there's a 418 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 1: fantastic paper called Local Money in the United States during 419 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: the Great Depression by Lauren gatch Over at the Department 420 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: of Political Science and the University of Central Oklahoma. And 421 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: this paper walks through some of the different compared of 422 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: values of script based on the type they were. You know, 423 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: like a tax anticipation script. You couldn't spend that far 424 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: outside of your town, but you could spend it as 425 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: a form of tax payment to the local government. So 426 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: it was kind of like a script with a superpower. 427 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: And what what Catch finds this may be controversial to 428 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: some of us. What Catch finds is that this phenomenon 429 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: proved that local money was actually possible in a modern 430 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: economy on a wide scale, So I have to I 431 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,479 Speaker 1: have to ask, you know, and uh, let's ask our 432 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: fellow listeners as well. What do you think about this 433 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: idea of local money. Do you think it's it's a 434 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 1: good idea. Do you think it's just a band aid? Well, 435 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: I don't think it matters so much. What I think 436 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: what matters is what Uncle Sam thought was it? Was 437 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: it legal? Is this okay? Is this essentially a form 438 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: of owner fitting? Um? I would say, no, you're not 439 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: making copies of legal tender. You're going a step further 440 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: and making your own currency. Um. And here's the thing, Um, 441 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: the federal government since the Civil War had done their 442 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 1: damnedest to deal with issues of private currencies, or let's 443 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: call it non national currencies. But um, most script of 444 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: the thirties was not necessarily illegal. No, it's kind of 445 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: a it's tough to make it illegal because they're not 446 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: saying it's necessarily replacing. They're not explicitly saying it's replacing 447 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: the dollar. Uh, it's it's almost You could make a 448 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: good argument that it's just a legal document representing in 449 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: agreement between two or more people, which is how legal 450 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: documents work. So of course the Fed doesn't like this 451 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: at all, so hey, that's our job. We we do 452 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: the coupon ones. But as you said, no, most forms 453 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: of the script were skirting just on the side of legality, right, 454 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: So what we end up seeing is that there was 455 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: no coordinated FED effort on Uncle Sam's part to suppress 456 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: these currencies. Their job was more to make the real 457 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: system work better as to make people not have a 458 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: reason to use the scripts, and right right, right, like now, 459 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: they let's just make these keepsakes, and we have to 460 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: we have to take a note here. Currency is a 461 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: very very very powerful tool, and it's more powerful than 462 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: I think than a lot of people imagine. Like even now, 463 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: one of the big controversies of the modern era is 464 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: the question over which currency should be used to pay 465 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,719 Speaker 1: for fossil fuels. That's what we call it the petrol dollar, right, 466 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: And while it may not seemed like a big deal 467 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: it maybe you know, for many people it may sound 468 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: like money as money as money. That's not entirely true. 469 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: So it's kind of surprising that the FED did not 470 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: crack down on these local currencies. And they did the 471 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: smart thing they did just like you said, no, they 472 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: they made the existing system more attractive and made scripts 473 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: seem less and less necessary. And the thing is, we 474 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: can ask did it work. It depends on which way 475 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: you look at it. And it certainly worked as a 476 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: band aid, as like a stop gap measure so people 477 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: could continue buying necessary goods and services and not end 478 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: up riding in the streets or having to exchange glue 479 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: for eggs for horseshoes and creating this bizarre web of 480 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: of bartering that wasn't sustainable. So yeah, I would say 481 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: it worked as far as that is concerned. Yeah, I 482 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: would say I would say it worked, um on a 483 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: better than nothing level totally, you know what I mean. 484 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: So we quickly learned some rules here that that guide us. 485 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: So some were more successful than others. But here are 486 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: the basic rules. We found. Script, no matter what it was, 487 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: became less acceptable if you printed too much of it, 488 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: or if the backing or basis for redemption became invalid. 489 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: So if somebody came back at that Acosta County in Michigan, 490 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: and pardon me if I'm mispronouncing that, by the way, 491 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: if someone came back to that county in Michigan and 492 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: they had their dollar and it was not accepted or 493 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't given the bay the value that was agreed 494 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: to have. Then all of those all of those dollars 495 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: seemed worth a little bit less because people can't trust it. 496 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting is that, going back to 497 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: that article you mentioned earlier, the scripts that seemed to 498 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,719 Speaker 1: work us were either the ones on the absolute smallest 499 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: scale or the ones that could be used as payment 500 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: for municipal fees or tax. That's the one that gets 501 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: the closest to being illegal. That is kind of like 502 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: paying your UM, your DMV fee or your driver's license 503 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,239 Speaker 1: fear or something in a currency that you made up 504 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: that's not gonna fly. I don't know, I don't know. 505 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam's company store does not accept this. No, no, 506 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: we do kind of know the ending for this story. 507 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: That's a hard kind of this might be interesting. So 508 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: let's call these scripts an economic experiment. Uncle Sam's plan works. 509 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: And when when the conditions that lead to the script 510 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: go away and dissipate, the script itself disappears. These alternative 511 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: currencies go the way of the dodo, as we so 512 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: often say, or did day Yeah, because apparently UM throughout 513 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: the thirties, Uh, the small US town of Tanino, Washington 514 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: was dealing with the Great Depression, just like everywhere else. Um, 515 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: but their problems didn't really get stitched up in the 516 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: same way that everyone else's did because they only had 517 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: one bank, the Citizens Bank of Tanino, and it closed 518 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: completely after they ran out of cash. So UM the 519 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: bank was one of just over a thousand that closed 520 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: in the fourth quarter of nineteen thirty one. UM. But 521 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: for Tennino, which is a very very small town population wise, 522 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: they only had this one bank, things were really really rough. 523 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: So in order to deal with this cash issue, UM, 524 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: the Thurston County Independent newspaper publisher Don Major asked the 525 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: city council to allow him to start facilitating a currency 526 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: within the community. And they still print those today, these 527 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: little iou slips, And by the time they had more 528 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: or less temporarily as we mentioned, you know, the way 529 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: these things tended to go solve the problem. There was 530 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: kind of a demand for these, and this guy Major 531 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: was able to turn this monetary catastrophe into a real 532 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: successful publicity style. Right. So, even after what we call 533 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: the depression and finally abated, the town of Tonino continued 534 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: printing wooden money is souvenirs and commemorative bills, usually annually 535 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: because people loved collecting them, you know what I mean. Uh, 536 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: this even went on in the nineties. The original press, 537 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: as far as we could find, is still an operation. 538 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: It gets fired up at least once a year to 539 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: make souvenirs for their annual Oregon Trail Days celebration, which 540 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: I definitely want to go to. And you can even 541 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: buy pieces of this wooden currency or script at local 542 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,719 Speaker 1: businesses today, such as the famous Scottie Beast Cafe. And 543 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: here's the thing in the town. They can still function 544 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: as money, um, And it does, but it's also you know, 545 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: it's it's admittedly it's a little bit more of a 546 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: kitchy kind of fun thing that they're doing to kind 547 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: of keep the past alive or whatever, but they do 548 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,280 Speaker 1: accept it. Um. The an analog to this that I 549 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,399 Speaker 1: have seen is a lot of local farmers markets here 550 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: in Georgia will issue these wooden tokens that you can 551 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: exchange if you have what's called snap or it's like 552 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: basically the equivalent of stamps. You can take your EBT 553 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: card and swipe it and then they will give you 554 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: these tokens that are two dollars to one dollar of 555 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: investment from your EBT. So the idea is they give 556 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: you double your money for um using these tokens, and 557 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: you're shopping locally, so it's but at the end of 558 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: the day, you still exchange these tokens at the farmers 559 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: market instead of money, right. And there are still local 560 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: or community currencies around today. And and it's funny because 561 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,959 Speaker 1: they haven't I guess they they have sort of gone 562 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: on away, but they've never really disappear. And the rise 563 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: of our digital information networks over the past few decades 564 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:16,439 Speaker 1: has also given rise to purely non physical digital UH 565 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: currencies like UH. You know, Casey and I have always 566 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 1: have always talked about years and years and years ago 567 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: when we were we were at our old office and 568 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: bike head deciding whether or not bitcoin would be a fad. 569 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: Do you remember that, Casey, I remember that very clearly, 570 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: and I uh, I remember investing in bitcoin, and I 571 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: remember selling at the wrong point Casey on the case, 572 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: me too, man. And for now, as we record this, UH, 573 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 1: if you are listening hundreds or thousands of years in 574 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: the future, right to us and let us know if 575 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: the US dollar has stuck around or if it is 576 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: a fad and if what has replaced it. It may 577 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 1: take a while for someone to answer. It may not 578 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: be us, but hopefully you'll get a reply. That'd be 579 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: cool if the show is around for centuries. Oh man, yeah, 580 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: I would love that. I mean, at least keep us 581 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: in uh you know, script script form, script form. Yeah. 582 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: You can write us at Ridiculous at iHeart radio dot com. 583 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: Or you can join our Facebook group at Ridiculous Historians, 584 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: where you can chat with all your other Ridiculous history 585 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: pals and exchange memes and barbs and and you know, 586 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: debate things that we talked about the issues. You can 587 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: call us out on mistakes we made. That's fun. Um. 588 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: Whatever you want to do, it's there for you to 589 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: do it. You can also find us personally on Instagram. 590 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,399 Speaker 1: Learn about my various misadventures getting kicked into and kicked 591 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: out of cities, regions, and countries at ben Bowling. You 592 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: can check me out at Embryonic Instide. It's mainly pictures 593 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: of my kid doing the dab um, going to farmers markets, 594 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: little travel stuff here and there. I like to take 595 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: a lot of weird pictures with no people and it 596 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: my mom says that makes them boring, but I have 597 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,240 Speaker 1: a good time with it. Thank you to Casey Pegram, 598 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: our super producer. Thank you to Alex Williams who composed 599 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: our track. Thanks to everybody who has written into us 600 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 1: or written to their fellow listeners on the Facebook page. 601 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: And Hey nol, thank you for being your friends. Hey man, 602 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 1: travel down that road and back again, hand in hand. 603 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,240 Speaker 1: You're a friend and I don't know, see you next time. Flix. 604 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I 605 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to 606 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:40,720 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.