WEBVTT - Tunde Adebimpe 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.196 --> 0:00:23.756 Tunday at Abimpe is a creative powerhouse. He's a cartoonist, 0:00:23.876 --> 0:00:27.036 a painter, a director, a Hollywood actor, and for the 0:00:27.036 --> 0:00:29.196 past twenty years, he's been the lead singer of the 0:00:29.236 --> 0:00:33.116 band TV on the Radio. His latest offering, another of 0:00:33.156 --> 0:00:36.716 his many artistic pursuits, is a solo project called The 0:00:36.916 --> 0:00:41.556 Black Bolts. Tunday began writing these songs back in twenty nineteen, 0:00:41.836 --> 0:00:44.396 and after a stint composing music for the PBS kids 0:00:44.396 --> 0:00:47.476 show City Island with producer Wilder Zobie, the two decided 0:00:47.516 --> 0:00:50.596 to set their sights on Tunday's growing collection of solo songs. 0:00:51.476 --> 0:00:53.876 Bul Chu, Leo Bunten and Joah Fittlandis of TV on 0:00:53.916 --> 0:00:57.316 the Radio also contributed to the album, which sounds every 0:00:57.316 --> 0:01:00.756 bit as fresh and thrilling as Tunday's past work. On 0:01:00.796 --> 0:01:03.076 today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Tunday out A Bempe 0:01:03.156 --> 0:01:06.956 about how stain steeped in creative projects keeps him sane. 0:01:07.236 --> 0:01:09.076 He also recalls his day's work and as a stop 0:01:09.196 --> 0:01:12.676 motion artists on MTV Celebrity Deathmatch, and why he thinks 0:01:12.676 --> 0:01:15.396 TV on the Radio isn't cool enough to be considered 0:01:15.636 --> 0:01:24.596 INDI sleas this is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. 0:01:28.676 --> 0:01:31.636 Here's Leah Rose's conversation with Tunday out of Bempe. 0:01:33.036 --> 0:01:36.516 So I have I have a theory about how you 0:01:36.556 --> 0:01:40.076 came to record to finally put out this solo album. 0:01:40.516 --> 0:01:44.036 So I saw that in the not so distant past 0:01:44.156 --> 0:01:47.956 you learned how to mix, how to master, how to produce, 0:01:49.156 --> 0:01:52.076 and you started sort of like messing around in ableton 0:01:52.996 --> 0:01:56.196 and you know, you had been in TV on the 0:01:56.316 --> 0:02:01.836 radio for over twenty years, So was was you learning 0:02:01.916 --> 0:02:05.956 how to technically use those tools? Was that what kind 0:02:05.956 --> 0:02:13.916 of like pushed you to do your own project? 0:02:13.436 --> 0:02:17.596 Not exactly. I think I went into that. 0:02:17.676 --> 0:02:20.036 I went to this, yeah, this place a friend taught 0:02:20.076 --> 0:02:23.236 at this school dub Spot, which I think has gone now, 0:02:24.276 --> 0:02:28.076 and did some you know, just just kind of getting 0:02:28.076 --> 0:02:30.916 my head around able to end mixing and mastering. 0:02:30.956 --> 0:02:33.436 And I think it was more so. 0:02:35.116 --> 0:02:37.516 I wouldn't have to wait for us all get together 0:02:37.956 --> 0:02:40.036 while I was making something as a band, and I 0:02:40.076 --> 0:02:42.236 could just be like send people stuff and be like 0:02:42.276 --> 0:02:45.436 here's a stronger basis for this and you can fuck 0:02:45.476 --> 0:02:48.436 around with it or do whatever. But I will also 0:02:48.476 --> 0:02:52.196 say that one of the things that experience taught me of, 0:02:53.596 --> 0:02:56.196 at least as far as the mixing and mastering end 0:02:56.236 --> 0:02:58.836 of it, is that like, I absolutely am not the 0:02:58.876 --> 0:03:01.756 person who should be doing that with any of my 0:03:01.836 --> 0:03:06.396 own stuff. I can do it, but it's it would 0:03:06.396 --> 0:03:08.916 take me. There are things that you know, I'm working 0:03:08.956 --> 0:03:11.516 with Wilder right now. 0:03:11.396 --> 0:03:12.196 Who is just. 0:03:13.996 --> 0:03:17.076 He is however he would put it, I'm telling you 0:03:17.116 --> 0:03:20.596 that he's he's He's a person who's fluent, you know, 0:03:20.756 --> 0:03:24.716 doing that. And I'm a person who, like, if I 0:03:24.716 --> 0:03:27.876 am pushed to, I will sit there and do it myself. 0:03:27.956 --> 0:03:30.236 But it is not it's not that end of it 0:03:30.276 --> 0:03:36.476 is not like I'm more a person who's making tons 0:03:36.516 --> 0:03:38.956 and tons and tons of voice notes and then taking 0:03:38.996 --> 0:03:42.916 those and making demos from them and right and then 0:03:43.316 --> 0:03:47.916 kind of like sitting with someone and fleshing things out 0:03:48.396 --> 0:03:49.476 and leading, you know. 0:03:49.596 --> 0:03:54.236 Like I feel like the it's it's a skill to 0:03:54.236 --> 0:03:56.716 to tag in the right people. 0:03:58.556 --> 0:04:02.156 Forever, yeah, and just be like you were great at that, 0:04:02.676 --> 0:04:05.156 You're great at that, You're great at that, and I 0:04:05.756 --> 0:04:08.316 want you to do that, you know, in conjunction with 0:04:08.356 --> 0:04:08.876 this with. 0:04:08.796 --> 0:04:09.396 This p. 0:04:10.876 --> 0:04:13.676 Yeah, yeah, yeah, So how did you meet Wilder? What 0:04:13.876 --> 0:04:15.956 have you known him for a while or how did 0:04:15.956 --> 0:04:16.756 that relationship? 0:04:16.996 --> 0:04:21.956 Yeah, and then Wilderford for a really really long time. 0:04:22.036 --> 0:04:26.156 I think we probably met like nineteen ninety eight or something. 0:04:26.156 --> 0:04:28.636 I just had a lot of mutual friends and just 0:04:28.836 --> 0:04:32.716 bands playing around in New York like Brooklyn on the 0:04:32.836 --> 0:04:36.956 Lower East Side, but have just been like, you know, 0:04:37.156 --> 0:04:41.476 really been friends forever and it never worked together. And 0:04:42.316 --> 0:04:44.876 he you know, he does a lot of work with 0:04:45.156 --> 0:04:49.916 Run the Jewels and other projects, and actually got a 0:04:49.956 --> 0:04:56.076 gig doing a soundtrack for a kids show on PBS 0:04:56.116 --> 0:05:00.596 called City Island. One of my my degenerate animator friends 0:05:00.636 --> 0:05:05.156 from MTV as we all grew up is now just 0:05:06.956 --> 0:05:12.036 an incredibly h generous and peaceful and wonderful person who 0:05:12.076 --> 0:05:13.916 wants to put good things into the end of the 0:05:13.956 --> 0:05:19.316 world and made an awesome kids show to soundtrack it. 0:05:19.916 --> 0:05:23.796 And so I kind of I called Wilder to kind 0:05:23.836 --> 0:05:25.716 of like you know, the split the there's a lot 0:05:25.756 --> 0:05:27.636 of a lot of music, and just said, would you 0:05:27.636 --> 0:05:28.636 want to like work on this. 0:05:28.516 --> 0:05:28.956 Thing with me? 0:05:29.116 --> 0:05:32.556 And we started doing that just as as a gig, 0:05:32.676 --> 0:05:35.676 and just kind of halfway through it, i'd been you know, 0:05:35.716 --> 0:05:38.676 I put these demos that I've been working on for 0:05:38.796 --> 0:05:40.876 my own thing of these songs that I thought could 0:05:40.876 --> 0:05:44.276 turn into something else aside, and I started thinking about 0:05:44.276 --> 0:05:46.516 them again and I just let him know. I was 0:05:46.556 --> 0:05:48.836 just like, if you want to tribe something on some 0:05:48.916 --> 0:05:52.796 of these, please be my guest, and you know, just 0:05:52.996 --> 0:05:56.676 like another thing to do. And he worked on two 0:05:56.716 --> 0:06:00.236 songs and sent them to me, just like even in 0:06:00.276 --> 0:06:05.516 the most like skeletal form, and I basically was like, 0:06:05.676 --> 0:06:11.676 if if we can do this entire record ourselves together 0:06:11.876 --> 0:06:13.996 right here, because it was funny because we developed this 0:06:14.076 --> 0:06:16.836 working relationship. This is kind of nine to five get 0:06:16.956 --> 0:06:18.796 we gotta get these notes in, like we got to 0:06:18.876 --> 0:06:22.676 do all this stuff for PBS kids. Yeah, so then 0:06:23.516 --> 0:06:28.396 it was a pretty natural jump to just working on 0:06:28.436 --> 0:06:31.356 these songs together kind of with the same attitude. The 0:06:31.396 --> 0:06:35.516 funny thing of working for a show or SOUNDTRACKINGCAU someone's like, 0:06:35.516 --> 0:06:37.556 you know, someone will call you about something you spend 0:06:37.556 --> 0:06:39.676 two days working on. Just be like this is great, 0:06:39.716 --> 0:06:42.316 except all of it's wrong and you have to have 0:06:42.396 --> 0:06:45.556 to change everything, and you just realize very quickly that 0:06:45.636 --> 0:06:49.076 you can't get attached to anything. You just have to 0:06:49.396 --> 0:06:51.956 It's hard, but again, it's also kind of freeing in 0:06:51.996 --> 0:06:54.796 a way because you're it's this thing of like as 0:06:54.796 --> 0:06:59.396 long as it sounds right in the end. The there's 0:06:59.396 --> 0:07:04.076 a lot of hold up I find, either recording with 0:07:04.196 --> 0:07:07.956 the band or just other projects, there can be a 0:07:07.996 --> 0:07:11.916 lot of pausing going like ah, I'm not sure about this, 0:07:12.116 --> 0:07:14.236 Like you know, it's not even before something's done. There 0:07:14.276 --> 0:07:16.356 can be a lot of hesitation and I feel. 0:07:16.196 --> 0:07:18.276 So that's definitive feedback. 0:07:18.316 --> 0:07:19.556 Yes, definitive feedback. 0:07:19.556 --> 0:07:21.436 And it's also sort of like I know that this 0:07:21.516 --> 0:07:24.436 can go a million different ways and none of them 0:07:24.676 --> 0:07:26.876 are wrong and none of them are right. It's just 0:07:26.996 --> 0:07:29.516 kind of like, you know, do something, does it feel okay? 0:07:30.236 --> 0:07:32.476 Not sure about it? Step away for a bit. But 0:07:32.636 --> 0:07:35.756 also we had a while working on the record, we 0:07:35.876 --> 0:07:40.236 had a code for going back in and working on 0:07:40.276 --> 0:07:42.556 something or leaving it alone, and it was the code 0:07:42.676 --> 0:07:44.556 was is this dry paint or is this wet paint? 0:07:45.436 --> 0:07:48.716 And there were it's great to have someone to bounce 0:07:48.796 --> 0:07:51.516 something off of where you're like, no, I really want 0:07:51.556 --> 0:07:53.196 to go back and fix that, and they're sort of like, 0:07:53.316 --> 0:07:55.556 I think it's dry paint. And then you got to 0:07:55.596 --> 0:07:57.236 walk around for a second and just come back and 0:07:57.236 --> 0:07:59.796 be like, actually you're right, I don't need to mess 0:07:59.836 --> 0:08:02.236 with that. And it's fine that I feel a little 0:08:02.316 --> 0:08:06.596 uncomfortable about it, because we'll see that's the whole part 0:08:06.596 --> 0:08:10.396 of putting something out too, is like that's it's for 0:08:10.636 --> 0:08:13.036 It's a circuit for someone else to complete in a 0:08:13.036 --> 0:08:18.156 lot of ways. Yeah, right, Like this is this all 0:08:18.156 --> 0:08:20.196 these spots on the record that I'm not sure about. 0:08:20.396 --> 0:08:22.436 First off, no one's ever going. 0:08:22.276 --> 0:08:24.996 To know, no one, Yeah no. 0:08:25.276 --> 0:08:28.596 And also, like when you're talking about engineering, like I 0:08:28.636 --> 0:08:33.076 wonder if I'm sort of fascinated by engineering because I 0:08:33.076 --> 0:08:36.636 don't think I have the tools to really distinguish, you know, 0:08:36.676 --> 0:08:38.956 like if something you know, people listen to albums like 0:08:38.996 --> 0:08:43.236 oh this is mixed so well, and I'm like, oh yeah, 0:08:42.756 --> 0:08:46.196 Like I wonder if if you were to just mix 0:08:46.236 --> 0:08:50.196 the album, like would it sound wildly different? But now 0:08:50.276 --> 0:08:52.396 you know, because you sort of have you've seen the 0:08:52.476 --> 0:08:52.916 back end. 0:08:53.716 --> 0:08:54.036 Sure. 0:08:54.156 --> 0:08:56.076 I mean, if I were first off, it was if 0:08:56.116 --> 0:08:58.196 it was just going to be me mixing it, it 0:08:58.196 --> 0:09:01.476 wouldn't be done by no, it would just be it 0:09:01.636 --> 0:09:04.356 just would not and it wouldn't be good. I'm just 0:09:04.436 --> 0:09:06.516 I'm safely I can safely say. 0:09:06.436 --> 0:09:09.716 I'm not like it would be muddy, or. 0:09:09.636 --> 0:09:13.756 It would be muddy, and it would be I would 0:09:13.796 --> 0:09:16.636 scrap a lot of things out of frustration that someone 0:09:16.676 --> 0:09:19.876 who just that wilder would be like, no, just do 0:09:20.036 --> 0:09:22.236 this and this and this and keep working on it 0:09:22.236 --> 0:09:22.916 and it's done. 0:09:23.196 --> 0:09:23.556 Yeah. 0:09:23.676 --> 0:09:26.396 Yeah. So I think most of the stuff that I 0:09:26.436 --> 0:09:29.916 was uncertain about on the record between the two of 0:09:29.956 --> 0:09:33.756 us would be more kind of aesthetic choices. Yes's sort 0:09:33.756 --> 0:09:35.756 of like, I don't know if this. 0:09:37.836 --> 0:09:38.156 With me. 0:09:38.316 --> 0:09:41.236 Sometimes it would be lyrics and I would just say, like, 0:09:41.356 --> 0:09:46.036 I like, I'm eighty percent on these lyrics, thinking like 0:09:46.716 --> 0:09:51.276 this all lands really well for me and makes some 0:09:51.356 --> 0:09:54.476 kind of sense because you know, you say with something 0:09:54.516 --> 0:09:57.436 forever and you're sort of like, are these words anymore? 0:09:58.236 --> 0:09:58.916 Oh totally. 0:09:59.396 --> 0:10:03.076 But it's but again, it's like there's some things where 0:10:03.076 --> 0:10:05.396 you're sort of I feel like with TV on the radio, 0:10:05.436 --> 0:10:08.836 I would sit there for a very long time and 0:10:09.156 --> 0:10:18.796 to obsess over certain things lyrically, just because it's there 0:10:18.876 --> 0:10:21.436 was a there was something I don't know that was 0:10:21.676 --> 0:10:23.996 that was a mode of being in all of that, 0:10:24.756 --> 0:10:30.596 Whereas with this, I feel like I didn't obsess a 0:10:30.636 --> 0:10:33.556 lot about things, and if I felt myself going in 0:10:33.676 --> 0:10:37.116 to do that because ultimately it also doesn't really matter 0:10:37.356 --> 0:10:38.356 that much at. 0:10:38.316 --> 0:10:43.116 The Yeah, exactly, it's me here. Yeah. 0:10:43.116 --> 0:10:45.636 And also I feel like with TV on the radio, 0:10:45.676 --> 0:10:48.556 it was sort of after a point you realize you're 0:10:48.556 --> 0:10:52.316 writing something that you're gonna have to sing literally hundreds 0:10:52.356 --> 0:10:57.196 of times, and so kind of like which is a 0:10:57.236 --> 0:10:59.796 bad way for me. I would say that's a bad 0:10:59.836 --> 0:11:03.956 way to think about writing anything, you know, like anticipating 0:11:03.996 --> 0:11:07.236 the torture of like saying this stuff that you thought 0:11:07.316 --> 0:11:09.436 was stupid before you recorded it, and now you're like, now 0:11:09.436 --> 0:11:11.156 it's stupid in public and it's great. 0:11:11.796 --> 0:11:12.156 Yeah. 0:11:12.276 --> 0:11:14.956 Well, is there anything any songs that now when you're 0:11:14.996 --> 0:11:17.516 performing them hundreds of times that you're like, oh, I 0:11:17.556 --> 0:11:18.916 wish that I would have changed that. 0:11:20.276 --> 0:11:22.876 There are two answers, and both of them are no. 0:11:24.076 --> 0:11:28.156 The first first, the first part of it is I 0:11:28.196 --> 0:11:30.716 think I've been and it's worked out. 0:11:31.196 --> 0:11:33.156 I don't we don't play those songs. 0:11:33.676 --> 0:11:37.836 Oh good call, you just don't. 0:11:37.596 --> 0:11:41.316 Play and there but there are a couple of songs 0:11:41.356 --> 0:11:43.476 where just on stage, if I had a lyric that 0:11:43.556 --> 0:11:46.476 I thought was better that I never recorded, I'll just 0:11:46.516 --> 0:11:47.156 sing that one. 0:11:47.756 --> 0:11:49.356 Oh it doesn't matter. 0:11:49.716 --> 0:11:52.716 Great, Yeah, feel those are two brilliant fixes. 0:11:52.956 --> 0:11:56.916 Yeah, don't do it or bend reality. 0:11:57.716 --> 0:12:03.436 Yes, I wanted to ask you about the title the 0:12:03.636 --> 0:12:04.756 Black Bolts. 0:12:05.116 --> 0:12:06.676 How did you come upon that? 0:12:07.556 --> 0:12:09.716 I came upon it just it just came out of 0:12:10.156 --> 0:12:13.356 a lot of free writing. I'll just write, like just 0:12:13.436 --> 0:12:17.396 to shake the shake the garbage can or the brain 0:12:17.436 --> 0:12:21.076 out in the morning, just free write whatever and look 0:12:21.116 --> 0:12:24.756 at it a few weeks later and think, are these lyrics? 0:12:24.836 --> 0:12:27.076 Is this nothing? Am I crazy? Whatever? 0:12:27.396 --> 0:12:32.276 And that was in there and the essentially it's the 0:12:32.356 --> 0:12:36.676 idea of a point of illumination in some heavy darkness, 0:12:37.396 --> 0:12:42.076 and the idea of lightning actually realized, like a lot 0:12:42.116 --> 0:12:46.756 of the songs ended up having this this mentioned of 0:12:46.996 --> 0:12:50.956 lightning or theme of lightning, and started to feel like 0:12:51.916 --> 0:12:55.196 the Black Bolts are. There is a spark of inspiration 0:12:55.276 --> 0:12:57.356 that can come in the middle of a very heavy 0:12:57.636 --> 0:13:02.076 time or a depression or events that kind of seemed 0:13:02.116 --> 0:13:06.996 to you know, obscure, obscure the good things from from 0:13:07.076 --> 0:13:11.116 your sight, but you know the whole You know, thunderclouds 0:13:11.116 --> 0:13:15.516 can generate bolt of electricity that illuminates the whole landscape 0:13:15.556 --> 0:13:18.036 and for at least for a second, you can see, 0:13:18.236 --> 0:13:21.516 like the beauty and it the tragedy in it, you know, 0:13:21.996 --> 0:13:26.076 all aspects of it, and maybe maybe feel better about 0:13:26.436 --> 0:13:29.796 the you know, and actually appreciate that that darkness of 0:13:29.836 --> 0:13:30.156 it too. 0:13:31.076 --> 0:13:33.796 Yeah, it made me think it's very evocative, the title, 0:13:33.916 --> 0:13:36.076 and it made me think that maybe you're making a 0:13:36.076 --> 0:13:36.796 metal album. 0:13:37.676 --> 0:13:39.796 I would. I mean, that's the other part of it. 0:13:39.836 --> 0:13:42.316 As I was kind of finishing it up, I was like, 0:13:42.716 --> 0:13:47.476 this is a very good name for a metal band. Yeah, 0:13:47.516 --> 0:13:48.876 and maybe I'm a metal band. 0:13:48.916 --> 0:13:52.716 Now. Maybe that's fat to do, but yeah, now I 0:13:52.716 --> 0:13:53.316 feel like it's. 0:13:53.276 --> 0:13:56.636 A it's a good It definitely works, and it stuck 0:13:56.836 --> 0:14:00.116 as something that was like a good Like I think 0:14:00.156 --> 0:14:05.676 I before I even started putting songs in order or 0:14:05.956 --> 0:14:08.236 knew that I was making a record, I kind of 0:14:08.276 --> 0:14:11.876 had that as the a guiding a guiding theme and 0:14:11.956 --> 0:14:12.876 guiding set away. 0:14:12.956 --> 0:14:13.196 Yeah. 0:14:13.356 --> 0:14:14.596 Yeah, yeah, that's cool. 0:14:15.196 --> 0:14:18.116 What is the feeling in you when you realize like, oh, okay, 0:14:18.156 --> 0:14:19.796 I'm about to put out an album. 0:14:20.316 --> 0:14:24.956 Are you excited? Are you nervous? Are you a little bit? 0:14:25.076 --> 0:14:25.156 Like? 0:14:25.196 --> 0:14:27.036 Do you get self conscious. 0:14:28.436 --> 0:14:30.036 With this? I feel like. 0:14:31.956 --> 0:14:34.516 I was around it for so long because it just 0:14:34.636 --> 0:14:37.836 kind of got done and kind of and fits and starts. 0:14:38.956 --> 0:14:44.676 I've been working on it from the end of twenty 0:14:44.796 --> 0:14:50.236 nineteen until last spring. Wow, I feel like just you know, 0:14:50.276 --> 0:14:54.516 with a lot of interruptions, but I feel like that's 0:14:54.716 --> 0:14:59.956 kind of the timeline of all of those songs being created. 0:15:00.436 --> 0:15:04.036 So I right now, I just feel relieved that it's 0:15:04.076 --> 0:15:07.516 actually going to, you know, get away from me and 0:15:07.556 --> 0:15:11.716 out into the world. Can kind of see what that does. 0:15:13.156 --> 0:15:15.556 And I feel like again, another part of working on 0:15:15.596 --> 0:15:18.636 it for such a long time is that I'm not 0:15:18.996 --> 0:15:23.036 too attached or detached from any of the songs or 0:15:23.116 --> 0:15:27.076 the record. I just feel like it's a really it 0:15:27.676 --> 0:15:33.796 has the feeling of we made something that feels like 0:15:33.796 --> 0:15:36.036 a really good gift, and now it's time to give 0:15:36.036 --> 0:15:38.956 it away and it's up to. 0:15:38.476 --> 0:15:39.556 Whoever gets it. 0:15:39.836 --> 0:15:43.916 Whoever gets it physically or mentally or emotionally, it's for them. No. 0:15:46.356 --> 0:15:48.636 After quick break, we're back with more from Leo Rose's 0:15:48.636 --> 0:15:50.596 conversation with Tundai out of Binbai. 0:15:54.796 --> 0:15:57.996 There's a lot of life that happens between twenty nineteen 0:15:58.076 --> 0:16:02.316 and now. Oh totally was there like seasons in your life? 0:16:02.316 --> 0:16:05.076 Are things you were going through that are you know, 0:16:05.076 --> 0:16:08.476 whether it's like personally or professionally that showed up on 0:16:08.516 --> 0:16:09.396 this album for you. 0:16:10.556 --> 0:16:14.716 Oh, definitely the I mean, the biggest thing was. 0:16:17.836 --> 0:16:23.836 Basically I started writing these demos in twenty nineteen when 0:16:23.876 --> 0:16:29.836 TV on the Radio took a break, and then when 0:16:29.836 --> 0:16:32.156 I started to really get into it and decide like, Okay, 0:16:32.196 --> 0:16:35.036 I'm gonna maybe look around for some producers to collaborate 0:16:35.076 --> 0:16:38.436 with or some folks that collaborate with the pandemic hit 0:16:38.596 --> 0:16:40.916 and it was kind of like, I'm not looking around 0:16:41.036 --> 0:16:46.356 to do anything with anybody because everybody's freaked out and 0:16:46.396 --> 0:16:49.356 at home trying to figure things out. So that was 0:16:49.476 --> 0:16:54.036 kind of a rocky beginning to that. But during that time, 0:16:54.236 --> 0:16:58.756 you know, wrote a couple of songs and edging into 0:16:59.956 --> 0:17:04.996 the end of twenty twenty, had shopped some things around. 0:17:05.156 --> 0:17:07.676 Like nobody wanted to do anything because I think there 0:17:07.716 --> 0:17:09.636 was a lot of uncertainty, But there were a lot 0:17:09.676 --> 0:17:13.116 of labels who were kind of like, yeah, we're not 0:17:13.156 --> 0:17:17.076 really trying to get anybody on our label right now. 0:17:17.156 --> 0:17:18.596 We don't know what's going to I think it was 0:17:18.636 --> 0:17:20.996 the uncertainty about touring and how people would like make 0:17:21.036 --> 0:17:24.756 a return on their investment. But that was definitely a 0:17:25.156 --> 0:17:30.036 that was a humbling experience. It was like, oh right, 0:17:30.196 --> 0:17:34.476 it's not two thousand and eight. Nobody cares nobody, nobody 0:17:34.476 --> 0:17:38.676 cares about what I'm making and that's fine, which is fine, 0:17:39.076 --> 0:17:41.756 but you know, kind of got it together, put some 0:17:41.796 --> 0:17:47.596 more demos together, and thought about Subpop because they are 0:17:47.636 --> 0:17:52.476 one of the labels that made me deeply interested in music, 0:17:52.596 --> 0:17:53.436 and also. 0:17:54.796 --> 0:17:56.636 Just the really. 0:17:58.516 --> 0:18:01.676 Foundational feeling of you can you don't have to be 0:18:01.996 --> 0:18:04.996 of virtuo, so you can make whatever you want, just 0:18:05.356 --> 0:18:09.836 finish it. You know, it's kind of the the mode 0:18:09.876 --> 0:18:13.036 and you also you know, it's it's very expansive. 0:18:13.876 --> 0:18:15.996 Yeah, it was a lot of teenage teenage. 0:18:15.676 --> 0:18:19.396 Jet fuel from Subpop for me and Yeah, so we 0:18:19.556 --> 0:18:25.436 finally called them and they essentially said, it'd be so 0:18:25.516 --> 0:18:27.556 great to work with you. We wanted to work with 0:18:27.596 --> 0:18:29.876 you and the band forever, which was not a piece 0:18:29.916 --> 0:18:31.636 of information that made it to me until I was 0:18:31.636 --> 0:18:33.396 talking to them. I was just like, if you if 0:18:33.436 --> 0:18:35.676 I'd known that, like, you know, a long while ago, 0:18:36.076 --> 0:18:39.956 it probably would have happened. So they were really very 0:18:40.036 --> 0:18:44.236 down for it, and two weeks after I signed with 0:18:44.316 --> 0:18:47.356 them and they were, you know, into making the record. 0:18:48.076 --> 0:18:52.476 My sister, my younger sister passed away very very suddenly, 0:18:52.996 --> 0:18:57.196 like out of nowhere, and this is the person who, 0:18:57.556 --> 0:19:03.116 I will say, without any hesitation, was like easily the 0:19:03.116 --> 0:19:06.356 most important person to me in my life, you know, 0:19:06.716 --> 0:19:10.196 like sorry everyone, sorry, everybody else. Yeah, that's that's the 0:19:10.436 --> 0:19:15.116 that's the the case. Sorry, yeah, thank you. 0:19:15.756 --> 0:19:19.836 Yeah. It was heavy, you know, really a bizarre thing. 0:19:19.996 --> 0:19:22.516 She was not you know, was not ill, was not 0:19:23.836 --> 0:19:27.636 There was no lead up to it, so that, you know, 0:19:27.796 --> 0:19:31.396 going from I've got this record to make, I just signed, 0:19:31.756 --> 0:19:34.676 and like people are expecting something in a matter of 0:19:34.716 --> 0:19:38.956 months going to I don't want to do anything like 0:19:39.396 --> 0:19:43.796 at all. I have to actually stop doing almost anything 0:19:43.876 --> 0:19:48.396 and just kind of you know, like regroup and take 0:19:48.476 --> 0:19:52.036 some time, you know, to actually process a lot of that, 0:19:53.316 --> 0:19:55.596 because that was one of those things, you know, and 0:19:55.676 --> 0:19:57.676 during I think people had a lot of time to 0:19:57.756 --> 0:19:59.956 think in the thicker pandemic. 0:20:01.396 --> 0:20:02.636 Of just like what is my. 0:20:02.596 --> 0:20:08.316 Life still and think and have and they're they're also 0:20:08.516 --> 0:20:14.076 I think during that time there were a couple of 0:20:14.116 --> 0:20:17.396 other losses that I hadn't really processed that had happened 0:20:17.396 --> 0:20:20.476 in the last ten years, and I realized I hadn't 0:20:20.996 --> 0:20:25.476 really processed them because I was essentially in this band 0:20:25.596 --> 0:20:27.716 that was putting out a record and going on tour 0:20:27.756 --> 0:20:29.516 and putting out a record and going on tour, putting 0:20:29.556 --> 0:20:32.236 out a record and going on tour, and then pandemic 0:20:32.276 --> 0:20:35.076 hits and this big loss hits, and it's a lot 0:20:35.116 --> 0:20:38.796 of just kind of not I don't know if not 0:20:39.356 --> 0:20:41.876 running away is the right way to put it, but 0:20:41.996 --> 0:20:46.036 just suddenly having time and in that, you know, in 0:20:46.076 --> 0:20:48.436 the negative space of that time, all of this stuff 0:20:48.556 --> 0:20:51.756 comes rushing in and you have there's no opportunity for 0:20:51.796 --> 0:20:56.116 you to not think about it. So that was a 0:20:56.156 --> 0:21:01.196 big My sister passing was a big thing. But the 0:21:01.236 --> 0:21:05.076 other side of that is, you know, this person is 0:21:05.116 --> 0:21:09.756 such a humongous inspiration to me. The thing that they 0:21:09.836 --> 0:21:13.316 would want me to do, Yes, to keep going and 0:21:13.316 --> 0:21:18.436 and writing and do yeah, do the thing that like, 0:21:18.516 --> 0:21:23.476 you know, my sister also was a musician and and acted, 0:21:23.516 --> 0:21:27.836 and just do the thing that bonded over and keep going. 0:21:27.876 --> 0:21:30.516 And she would be like, don't you can't. You cannot 0:21:30.596 --> 0:21:36.716 fucking quit because then you would be a loser. She's like, 0:21:36.716 --> 0:21:37.916 and we are not losers. 0:21:37.956 --> 0:21:38.316 We don't. 0:21:38.356 --> 0:21:41.356 Our family doesn't do that. So there's this There is 0:21:41.396 --> 0:21:44.356 a song on the on the record that's dedicated to her. 0:21:44.396 --> 0:21:46.876 The record is dedicated to her and and to other 0:21:47.036 --> 0:21:47.796 family members. 0:21:47.836 --> 0:21:50.276 That which song is that I can see the track 0:21:50.316 --> 0:21:51.276 list on Spotify. 0:21:51.316 --> 0:21:53.076 It's all great out. We can't hear it, but we 0:21:53.076 --> 0:21:53.876 can see it. 0:21:53.876 --> 0:21:56.276 It's the song it's just called It's called il y 0:21:56.716 --> 0:21:57.196 just I love you. 0:21:57.356 --> 0:22:01.276 Oh yeah, yeah, very very simple note to her and 0:22:01.316 --> 0:22:02.196 to thank you to her. 0:22:02.476 --> 0:22:02.956 Yeah. 0:22:02.996 --> 0:22:05.436 So how has the grief evolved now that it's you've 0:22:05.476 --> 0:22:07.716 had a little bit of time, You know. 0:22:07.716 --> 0:22:13.436 If you've experienced it pretty significant loss, you know that 0:22:13.476 --> 0:22:17.996 it doesn't it just it gets better in some ways. 0:22:17.996 --> 0:22:21.236 But more than that, I think it just changes and 0:22:21.276 --> 0:22:25.756 it it sinks. It sinks into a place where it's 0:22:25.756 --> 0:22:29.556 on the level as on the same level as the 0:22:29.636 --> 0:22:33.636 positive memories of this person or the positive aspects of 0:22:33.636 --> 0:22:39.316 of your life. But I will say that making something 0:22:39.676 --> 0:22:43.036 that feels like you're you know, that's a tribute to 0:22:43.556 --> 0:22:48.396 these people that you love, or an offering to these people, 0:22:48.436 --> 0:22:50.916 to the spirits of these people that you that you 0:22:50.996 --> 0:22:53.636 love and lost, is it really? At least for me, 0:22:53.796 --> 0:22:56.876 is was very therapeutic. And I don't I don't think. 0:22:56.876 --> 0:22:59.476