1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: We've all felt left out, and for people who moved 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: to this country, that feeling last more than a moment. 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: We can change that. Learn how it Belonging begins with 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: us dot org. Brought to you by the AD Council. Hey, Hey, 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: this is John O'Bryant, entrepreneur and a fellow builder just 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: like you. Thanks to the help of I Heart Radio 7 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: and Prudential Financial, I'd like to present to you my 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: brand new podcast is called Building the Good Life, where 9 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: each week a special friend and I will unpack and 10 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: talk in detail about financial literal building, generational well building, 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: that community building the best version of you. Make sure 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: to listen to Building a Good Life on the I 13 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. 14 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,279 Speaker 1: I'm time onto you and I'm the host of Calling BS, 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: the first podcast about purpose washing. In this show, we 16 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: dig into the difference between what organizations say they stand 17 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: for and the actions they are actually taking. Let's call 18 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: BS on the businesses that deserve it and also make 19 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: some concrete suggestions for cleaning that BS up. Listen to 20 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: Calling BS every Wednesday on the I Heart Radio app, 21 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you 22 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: went into the Gucci store and bought a handbag. You 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: wouldn't ask the salesperson is this a real Gucci? You know, 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: you would take that as a sort of given fact. 25 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: So the fact that Nodler, you know, was the oldest 26 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: gallery in the city. It was a hundred and sixty 27 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: five years old. It had worked with these artists in 28 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: their lifetimes, and if you wanted to buy an abstract 29 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: expressionist painting, that's kind of the place you would go 30 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: to do that. By the mid two thousand's, Carlos and 31 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: as forgery scheme was raking in enormous profits, and yet 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: Era was miserable. Later, she told a federal judge that 33 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: Carlos beat her frequently, once going so are as to 34 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: break her nose. The beatings, she claimed, were to keep 35 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: her from bailing out of the family art business. Quitting 36 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: wasn't an option. Carlos warned that if she left, he 37 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: would kidnap their daughters solely and take her to Spain, 38 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 1: and Glyphra would never see her again. Ironically, gas relationship 39 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: with Ann Friedman was blossoming. Rosalees demanded and received higher 40 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: fees from Knobler as the fake paintings continued to sell 41 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: for exorbitant prices. Ultimately, GPA would rake in more than 42 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: twenty million dollars in her fourteen year forgery career. With 43 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: that money came a commensurate lifestyle. In two thousand five, 44 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: Carlos and Gpa bought an enormous square foot house in 45 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: the North Shore neighborhood of Sam's Point on Long Island's 46 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: Gold Coast. The Mediterranean style home came with a two 47 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: point three million dollar price tag, quite a property for 48 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: a local art dealer and her seemingly unemployed partner. Friends 49 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: and neighbors found the home beautiful and impressively furnished, but 50 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: not without its quirks. The odd thing about it was 51 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: they were paintings everywhere, and not just hung on the 52 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: walls either. One time we went over to pick up 53 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: the kids, my wife and I were in the house 54 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: and we were kind of blown away by the art 55 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: that we saw in the house, because, you know, Glafire 56 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: always had the appearance of being successful. My name is 57 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: Brian Scarlatto's I'm an attorney with Costellans and Fink in 58 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: New York City, and I specialized in criminal tax investigations 59 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: and prosecutions. Brian was a family friend of Cfia and 60 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: Carlos and Sam's point, their children attended the same school. Later, 61 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: when Golf's legal troubles began, she retained Brian as her attorney. 62 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: We knew she had a gallery in New York, but 63 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: when we went into the house, you know, we recognized 64 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: several pieces that that we knew. There were warholes. I 65 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: believe there was a Picasso, there was a Rothco, and 66 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: others like that. And as I said, there was also 67 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: very interesting furniture, and there was just so much art 68 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: that some of it was leaned up against the wall 69 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: because there wasn't enough room to hang it all on 70 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: the walls. And you know, my wife and I think 71 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: just assumed that they were using their art as storage 72 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: for their gallery. But when you go into somebody's house 73 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: and you see warholes in a Picasso and a Rothco 74 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: and other things that you recognize, it's it's sort of, 75 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: you know, overwhelming. You know, it was also casual. I 76 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: remember remarking to my wife on the way out that 77 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: you know, oh my god, they have this this little dog, Rocky, 78 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: who was running around embarking. And I remember saying to 79 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: my wife, what if Rocky were to pee on a Picasso. 80 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: I mean it just and it seemed like it could happen, because, 81 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: as I say, things were just stacked up against the wall. 82 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: They were always very elegantly dressed, you know, nice cars, 83 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: in a very nice house, and they seemed to travel 84 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: the world, and they also knew a lot about art. 85 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: And so they were my friends who were the art 86 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: dealers and had a gallery. And Friedman was also living 87 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: the good life. Ndler was trafficking almost exclusively in the 88 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: David Herbert collection of fake Rothko's, to Coonings and pollocks, 89 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: and had a knack for reaching out to buyers that 90 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: were exceedingly wealthy but not necessarily well informed. Domenico and 91 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: Eleanor de Sole walked into the Ndler in late two 92 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: thousand four in search of a Shawn Scully painting. Scully 93 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: was a contemporary abstract artist. The Soules, profond of Domenico Disle, 94 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: was just stepping down as president and CEO of Gucci 95 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: and was becoming designer Tom Ford's partner in a new 96 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: fashion company. The Soles had an ocean front home in 97 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: Hilton Head, South Carolina, and needed art to hang on 98 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: its walls and didn't have a Shawn Scully painting to 99 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: sell them. She did, however, have an amazing Mark Rothko, 100 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: as she had done so many times before, and enchanted 101 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: her prospective buyers with the story of the ex family, 102 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: David Herbert and the marvelous downtown art world of the 103 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties where artists sold works out of the back 104 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: of their studios for cash. The Desoles glowed with excitement. 105 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: They had never paid anywhere close to eight point four 106 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: million dollars for a painting before, but it was a Rothco. 107 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: The very name of the painting, untitled nineteen fifty six, 108 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: evoked images of the troubled artist in his upper East 109 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: Side carriage house, working late into the night. Like so 110 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: many other paintings in the David Herbert collection, the work 111 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: was notably smaller than a typical Rothco. Larger ones went 112 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: for tens of millions of dollars. Once again, the painting 113 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: had no real provenance, nor was it in the Rothco 114 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: catalog resume, but Anne said she had no doubt the 115 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: magnificent painting they were gazing at would soar in value 116 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: once it was placed in a future supplement to the 117 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: catalog resume. The eight point four million dollar Rothko was 118 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: sold and hung in the Dosoles hilton Head family home. 119 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: Eleanor later testified that friends would stop by just who 120 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: and ah over it? But what was a Rothko compared 121 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: to a top of the market Pollock. Ever since Anne 122 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: had hit a wall with the Leavey Pollock, she had 123 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: pressed life for another. By two thousand seven she had 124 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: it in hand, a classic drip painting with a silvery cast. 125 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: Fully deserving, Anne thought of the seventeen million dollar price 126 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: tag she attached to it. Through a pair of middleman dealers, 127 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: a transparency of the painting found its way to a 128 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: Belgian born financi or named Pierre Lagrange. La Grange was 129 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: a hedge fund manager, one of the richest men in London. 130 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: He was drawn to the Pollock, but, like Jack Levy, 131 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: he wanted assurances that the painting was authentic. Fortunately, Lagrange 132 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: wasn't asking for an official eye far evaluation of the painting. 133 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: He did want to be sure that the Pollock Krasner 134 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: Foundation would authenticate the work. This was a problem for Anne. 135 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: The Pollock Foundation had stopped authenticating any new works purporting 136 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: to be Pollocks. As for the Pollock catalog, resume, its 137 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: last and final supplement, had been released in nineteen ninety four, 138 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: and had the clout to arrange a meeting with the 139 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: Pollock Krausner Foundation lawyers, in part because one of the 140 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: lawyers was also her lawyer. She talked up the painting 141 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: and stressed the importance of updating the entire catalog resumee 142 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: to be reprinted in full color. It was our only 143 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: shot to have the painting added. Officially, the lawyers murmur 144 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,599 Speaker 1: and hummed, but the word authentication never quite entered the room. 145 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: Anne had to think fast or risk losing the biggest 146 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: sale of her career. On March eighteenth, two thousand seven, 147 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: Anne wrote to Lagranges Camp and told them exactly what 148 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: she thought the English collector wanted to hear. Quote. The 149 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: Poblock Krasner Foundation has stated that they are intending to 150 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: update and republish the catalog resume in full color and 151 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: also in an online version. Every detail of the email 152 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: was a lie. Lagrange and his chief lawyer, Matthew Johnson 153 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: found the email less than persuasive. They wanted reps and warranties, 154 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: as Donson later put it, which was to say legally 155 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: binding language that the painting would be authenticated, and that 156 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 1: it would appear in the next catalog. Resume Friedman turned indignant. Quote. 157 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: The distrusting and demanding language in this agreement of sale 158 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: is not and keeping with the familiar and widely accepted 159 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: standards and practices in the art business, she huffed. In 160 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: her written response, it veers far from the spirit and 161 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,599 Speaker 1: understanding of our original agreement. I have not been confronted 162 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: by anything like this in my thirty four years of 163 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: experience as an art dealer. We have given you our word. 164 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: Our invoice is always our legal guarantee, and has previously 165 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: stated if this painting has proved not to be by 166 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: the hand of Pollock, the sale would be canceled, the 167 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: painting return to Ndler, and the full purchase refunded to 168 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: you end quote. The hypocrisy of the letter was breathtaking, 169 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: but Ann's huffing and puffing seemed to do the trick. 170 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: On November six, two thousand seven, Pierre Lagrange completed his 171 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: purchase of the silvery Pollock. The Knodler provided a written 172 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: guarantee that Lagrange's pollock was from a quote private collection 173 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: of the heir to a collector who had obtained it 174 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: directly from Jackson Pollock end quote. The air insisted on anonymity. 175 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: With seventeen million dollars rendered, Pierre Lagrange gave his new 176 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: painting a place of honor in his London penthouse, unaware 177 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: that its true value was little more than the canvas 178 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 1: it was painted on. More art fraud in a minute. Hi, 179 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: this is Bill Clinton, and I hope you'll join us 180 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: on why am I telling you this? And Why am 181 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: I telling you this? Why am I telling you this? 182 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: And why am I telling you this? Because it is 183 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 1: your future on the line, where we'll talk about ideas 184 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: that are improving our world and deserve more attention. After 185 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: years of being interviewed, I'm looking forward to doing the 186 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: interviewing to celebrate people's unique gifts that make life more 187 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: interesting and affirm that our common humanity matters more. Please 188 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: join me on who Am I telling you this? For 189 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: conversations with some of the most fascinating people I know. 190 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: We'll share stories and talk about ideas that deserve more 191 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: attention and why we should be hopeful and optimistic about 192 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: our future. Listen to Why Am I telling You This? 193 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: On the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever 194 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Elizabeth Dutton and I'm 195 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Dutton. Wait sorry, do you want to see your name? 196 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: I'm good, good, go ahead. We're the hosts of Ridiculous Crime. 197 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: People love true crime, right, the mystery, the intrigue, the 198 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: human frailty totally. But what a lot of us don't 199 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: like is the blood and the guts and the mayheman Wait, wait, wait, wait, 200 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: some of us do like the mayhem. Okay, let's be real, 201 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: there's nothing funny about murder. Okay, that's our show gives 202 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: you stories like the kidnapping of Frank Sinatra Jr. And 203 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: the Max Headrooms signal hijacking. Oh so you mean ridiculous 204 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: stories like the UK cat Shaver and Pablo Escobar's cocaine hippos. Yeah, 205 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: stories like the dudes who stole Buzzy, the animatronic whatever 206 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: he was from Disney World, and the woman whose husband 207 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: tried to kill her but came back from the dead 208 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: and surprised him at her own funeral. Yeah, that does 209 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: sound good. You can find this new podcast, Ridiculous Crime 210 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: all over the place, the I Heart Radio app, the 211 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't 212 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: know how you live ridiculous crime. What grows in the 213 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: forest trees? Sure? No? What else grows in the forest, 214 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds 215 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect 216 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is 217 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: closer than you think. Find a forest near you and 218 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: start exploring. I discover the forest. Do orc Brought to 219 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: you by the United States Fourth Therapist and the AD Council. 220 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: Around the same time, Pierre Lagrange was acquiring his seven 221 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: figure Pollock Glafia, Rosalie's success was perhaps going to her head. 222 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: An opportunity for new business came up when her old 223 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: friend Heimi Andrade introduced Cfia to an ex notler dealer 224 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: named Julian Weissman. Rosalez spoke to Wiseman about potentially cutting 225 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: ties with Ann Friedman. She wanted a new start, she said. 226 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: As a show of good faith, she consigned three Robert 227 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: Motherwell paintings to Wiseman's gallery, who works were said to 228 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: be from Motherwell's Elegy to the Spanish Republic series. The 229 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: third painting from the series was ultimately sold by Wiseman 230 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: for six hundred and fifty thousand dollars to Mark blonde, 231 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: director of the Irish Kalila Gallery. Blondeau, like Lagrange, wanted 232 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: authentication and he got it. Jack Flamm and Morgan Spangler, 233 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: co directors of the Motherwell Foundation known as the Dadalus, 234 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: spent hours poring over the Blondo Motherwell. Its lack of 235 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: provenance bothered them, but they fell obligated to authenticate it. 236 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: The painting was just that good. Flam and Spangler spent 237 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: the rest of two thousand seven finishing Motherwell's catalog Resimee. 238 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: As they did, they noticed a troubling trend more Spanish 239 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: elegy paintings without provenance. There were seven in all, including 240 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: the one now owned by the Khalila Gallery. To the 241 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: foundation's dismay, four of the seven paintings were being sold 242 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: by the Knodler Gallery. Jack Flam insisted that all seven 243 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: Spanish elegy paintings be shown together at the Knodler and 244 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: resisted as long as she could, but ultimately she caved 245 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: and agreed. The Spanish elegies were spectacular, but curiously, they 246 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: were all mind exactly the same way. This was strange 247 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: for a painter who was known to vary his signature. 248 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: From picture to picture, three of the paintings had gone 249 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: from Glafira to Weissman, indicating that Rosalis had played her 250 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: side game. Likely to ann Friedman's surprise, now and admitted 251 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: the obvious. All seven paintings had come from the same 252 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: source for the moment, she refused to say who that source. 253 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: Was alarmed, the Dadalus Foundation demanded Ndler higher a widely 254 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: respected forensic art expert named Jamie Martin, to test two 255 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: of the disputed Spanish Elegy paintings. Martin also tested genuine 256 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: Motherwell paintings for comparison's sake. What Jamie Martin would do 257 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,359 Speaker 1: is he will take a painting and he will investigate 258 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: all the aspects of the paint, from the frame to 259 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: the paints that are used. That's Jason Hernandez, Assistant District 260 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: Attorney to New York Second District, and the course of 261 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: his criminal investigation, Jason gleaned a wealth of knowledge about 262 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: the forensic testing process. He'll take an incredibly small slice 263 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: of the paint. He'll investigate the dust that's in the 264 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: crevices and the cracks of the paint, and he will determine, 265 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: you know what the composition of those materials are. He 266 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: will look for what he calls anomalies, meaning things that 267 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: shouldn't be there. And I'll give you a very very 268 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: simple example. I think it was the DuPont Corporation at 269 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: some point patented titanium dioxide, which really makes whites really white. 270 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: It was patented sometime and I don't know the seventies 271 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to call it. But what that means is 272 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: that if I present to you a Pollock painting and 273 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: it has titanium dioxide in it, we have a problem, 274 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: because Jackson Pollock was dead before titanium dioxide was discovered 275 00:17:50,680 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: and patented. Jamie Martin's report was devastating if found that 276 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: a red pigment in one of these Spanish elegies hadn't 277 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: existed until years after the paintings were said to be made. 278 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: All seven of the Spanish elegies were immediately scrapped from 279 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 1: the upcoming Motherwell catalog Resone. The Kalila gallerby sued the Daedalist, 280 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: The Dadalist sued Weissman, the dealer. In the end, all 281 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: parties settled with money changing hands and the Kalila's painting 282 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: branded on its verso as a forgery. One day, while 283 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: Jamie Martin was studying the Spanish elegies, Jack Flam had 284 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: a memorable talk with Ann Friedman. She said, I don't 285 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: want to get Michael Hammer involved in this. He's very lititious. 286 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: Flam later recalled, despite her wish to keep the Spanish 287 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,959 Speaker 1: elegy debacle off her boss's desk, Friedman and Hammer had 288 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: forged an alliance right from the start, As a lawsuit 289 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: would later allege, Anne had kept her boss in the 290 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: loop the sales of Rosales's paintings from the beginning. She 291 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: sent Hammer short write ups of every new painting that 292 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: came in. The writeups detailed how much the gallery paid 293 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: fear for each picture wholesale and how much Ndler had 294 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: sold them for retail to its customers. And yet years 295 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: later Anne felt afraid of Michael Hammer enough to worry 296 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: he might sue her. It seemed as if each partner 297 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: still kept some secrets from the other. From the start, 298 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: Knoedler's owner, Michael Hammer had kept all but invisible in 299 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: his spacious office at the gallery. Staffers rarely saw him, 300 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: and when they did, it was hard not to be 301 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: distracted by his artificial tan and a wardrobe that could 302 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: charitably be described as extravagance. Hammers roughly two dozen vintage cars, 303 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: some worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, only underscore the 304 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: sense that here was a man of almost unimaginable wealth, 305 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 1: free to do as he wished. By the fall of 306 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: two thousand nine, news of the fake Spanish Elegy paintings 307 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: had reached the prosecutor's office in the Second District of 308 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: New York. Investigators were now sifting through Ann Friedman's seventeen 309 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: years as head of the Ndler Gallery. Any hopes and 310 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: had of keeping Michael Hammer out of the loop were dashed. 311 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: Seeing law enforcement walk through the doors had jolted Hammer 312 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: to his core. That October, he terminated Ann Friedman's employment 313 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: from the Ndler Gallery. Her feet barely touched the floor 314 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: as security guards swept her through the gallery and out 315 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: the front doors under the Royal blue awning and was finished. 316 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: We'll be back after this. Adoption of teams from Foster 317 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: Care is a townfect not enough people know about, and 318 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: we're here to change that. I'm April Dinuity, host of 319 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: the new podcast Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt Us Kids. 320 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: Each episode brings you compelling, real life adoption stories told 321 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: by the families that lived them, with commentary from experts. 322 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: Visit adopt us Kids dot org, slash podcast, or subscribe 323 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: to Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt Us Kids, brought to 324 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: you by the U S Department of Health and Human Services, 325 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: Administration for Children and Families, and the ACT Council. If 326 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: you love true crime podcasts, you need to check out 327 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: True Crime Obsessed. Each week, hosts Patrick and Jillian recap 328 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,479 Speaker 1: a true crime documentary everyone is talking about, and they 329 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: do it with humor, heart and just the right amount 330 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: of sass. When you go camping, you either find the 331 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: skull or you become the skull. That's the role. Patrick 332 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: and Jillian have covered everything from the Ted Bundy tapes 333 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: to Lula Rich, with plenty of art heists in between. 334 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: With over one hundred million downloads and third prety thousand 335 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: five star reviews on Apple Podcasts, true Crime Obsessed is 336 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: one of the most popular true crime podcasts in the world. 337 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: Find True Crime Obsessed wherever you listen. From Cavalry Audio, 338 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: the studio that brought you The Devil Within and The 339 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: Shadow Girls, comes a new true crime podcast, The Pink 340 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: Moon murders. The local sheriff believes there may be more 341 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: than one killery. It's been four days since those bodies 342 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: were found and there's no arrest as it this morning. 343 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: They were afraid it's face it out in that area, 344 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: what if they come back or whatever. It scared me 345 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: to death, like it scared me, I was very, very 346 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: intimidating to live here. Crazy to think you go to 347 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: sleep one night, maybe snuggling with your loved one and 348 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: never wake up, or maybe you wake up in a 349 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: struggle for your life, which you lose. Joint host David 350 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: Raderman as he explores one fateful night when evil descended 351 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: upon small town, Ohio, killed eight members of an Ohio 352 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: family in a pre planned execution. Family was targeted, most 353 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: of them targeted while they were sleeping. Followed the Pink 354 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: Moon murders on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts 355 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Back in London, Pierre 356 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: Lagrange was having trouble of his own. Just two years 357 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: after buying his seventeen million dollar pollock, he was embarking 358 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: on a divorce. He was advised to sell his recently 359 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: acquired pollock and split the proceeds with his soon to 360 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: be ex wife. Lagrange was shocked to discover that neither 361 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: Southbes nor Christie's would accept the work. After all, the 362 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: Pollock had no provenance, and its surfaced only a few 363 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: years before. David and Pham, one of the world's most 364 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: respected authorities on modern American art, was just as skeptical 365 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: when he personally viewed the painting in Pierre Lagrange's London home. 366 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: It was the ninth of April two thousand and eight 367 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: when I paid a visit and all the whole collection, 368 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: but then suddenly we got to the Pollock. Pierre looked 369 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: at me. I looked at Pierre's advisor, and I think 370 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: I said, what do you think? And I wouldcall very clearly, 371 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:20,360 Speaker 1: saying well, that has a history. And they were hoping 372 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: for some more words. But I never said the west 373 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: was silence. They were hoping that you would say the 374 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: painting was right. Yes, that's exactly what I did not say. 375 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: La Grange had the distinct feeling he was being toyed with, 376 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 1: and he was angry. Where was Ann Friedman anyway? News 377 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: of her firing hadn't yet made its way to La Grange. 378 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: The Knoedler was playing a vanishing game of its own. 379 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: The gallery flat out refused to take back Lagrange's Pollock, 380 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: nor would it be fund his seventeen million dollars. After all, 381 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: the gallery insisted the painting was genuine. Lagrange was seeing 382 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: read he wanted his money, and surfaced in November two 383 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: with an email meant to lower the temperature. Once again, 384 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 1: she insisted politely but firmly, that Lagrange's Pollock was one 385 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: of several newly discovered works that would be added to 386 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: a revised Pollock catalog. Resimee Ann's timing couldn't have been worse. 387 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: Just one month after her attempt to band aid the 388 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: Lagrange situation with yet another lie, Jackson, Pollock expert Eugene 389 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: Thaw shocked the art world with a declaration of seismic proportions. 390 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: Thaw declared that Legrange's silvery Pollock looked not right to him. 391 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: Thaw was in poor health and he wanted to be 392 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: sure his judgment was made clear, so in early two 393 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: thousand eleven, he repeated his claim in a videotaped Affidavid. 394 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: The painting looked fake to him, Thal said, AND's email 395 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: was immediately and entirely invalidated. It was now February two eleven. 396 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 1: Pierre Lagrange still had no interest in meeting Ann Friedman, 397 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: but word was that a grand jury was convening to 398 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: consider charges stemming from the fake Spanish elegies, and Anne 399 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: was said to be a subject of interest. Lagrange decided 400 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: he would meet with her after all, and suggested the 401 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: lounge of the Carlisle Hotel with its serpentine rooms of 402 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: overstuffed chairs. Anne arrived early to the Carlyle on a 403 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: wintry day and shows a small table in a cozy 404 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: lowlit corner. She recognized Lagrange from his long gray hair 405 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: and angular face as soon as he walked in, and 406 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: stood up to greet him and his attorney, Matthew Donson. 407 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: Pierre Lagrange, I'm Ann Friedman. It's nice to meet you, 408 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: she said, don't be so sure, Lagrange heath in his 409 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: Belgian accent. Lagrange ordered a cocktail, the lawyer a coke. 410 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: I've been looking forward to meeting you and discussing the painting, 411 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: and said, cheerfully, let's talk about how I can be helpful. 412 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: I want my money, the grand said, his voice rising 413 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: with each word. That's all and tried to stay calm. 414 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: She leaned forward a bit. It's hard to predict the market, 415 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: she noted. She said they might have to wait a 416 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: while before selling the painting, but she and La Grange 417 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: would be able to help each other out of this fix, 418 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: and said assuredly. That was when Lagrange lashed out. Quote. 419 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: He started screaming at the top of his lungs. I'm 420 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: going to set you on fire. Do you understand that 421 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to set you on fire and you will 422 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: have no life. It will be over, and it will 423 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: hit the press, and you will be done. And tried 424 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: to reason with the Belgian and financier in a calm voice, 425 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: as if talking to an unruly child. Taking the painting 426 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: back simply wasn't an option. She said all the experts 427 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: agreed it was real, and so did she, and said 428 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: she offered to take the painting on consignment and try 429 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: to sell it to someone else. Lagrange was astounded. Anne's 430 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: solution was to find some other sap to unload the 431 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: painting on. Not only was that wildly irresponsible, but surely 432 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: illegal as well. The two of them would be selling 433 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: a painting Lagrange now believed was a fake. If Noodler 434 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: didn't immediately return his money and take back the painting. 435 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: Lagrange railed, he would destroy her reputation. He was furious. 436 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: Lagrange and Johnson stood up. The meeting was clearly over. 437 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: Everyone by now at the Carlysle was staring. This was 438 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: a real scene, and recounted. The waiter came over and 439 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: asked if she was all right. Later, Lagrange would deny 440 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: A's account of the meeting. He hadn't raised his voice, 441 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: he said. The calamity at the Carlisle merely confirmed Lagrange's 442 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: worst fears. He was sure his Pollock was a fake, 443 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: and Friedman persona non grata. At the Ndler could do 444 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: nothing to get him his money back. Lagrange's only move 445 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,239 Speaker 1: was to squeeze the reclusive Michael Hammer, Noodler's chairman, in 446 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: whatever way he could to recover his seventeen million. Lagrange 447 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: had no idea how utterly dependent the gallery was on 448 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: the sales of Ga Feara Rosales's paintings. He did note 449 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: with interest that Hammer had put one of the galleries 450 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: two adjoining mansions up for sale for more than a year, 451 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: The seventeen thousand square foot Italian Renaissance building at nine 452 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: Street had been quietly shopped around town for fifty nine 453 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: point nine million dollars. That was a high price in 454 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: a bear market. It remained for sale until February two 455 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: thousand eleven, when it sold for thirty one million dollars, 456 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: half its original asking price. As it turned out, the 457 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: sale came shortly before the disastrous Carlisle Hotel meeting. Lagrange 458 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: knew exactly where seventeen million of the mansions proceeds should go, 459 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: but Noodler had no interest in giving any of that 460 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: money back to the London Hedge funder. The standoff with 461 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: Lagrange remained a secret through much of two thousand eleven 462 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: as lawyers attempted to resolve the situation. Then in October 463 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: came news of the Motherwell Spanish elegy settlement. Hi. I'm 464 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: Patricia co In and I'm a reporter for the New 465 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: York Times. Patricia's first scoop about the Noodler saga was 466 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: dated October eleventh, two thousand eleven. I had no idea 467 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: at that point that that story was going to kind 468 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: of explode into one of the biggest art frauds of 469 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: the last hundred years. I just started digging around and 470 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: even though that story was relatively short, I quickly realized 471 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,959 Speaker 1: that there was a much bigger story buried beneath this 472 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: with with a lot more questions that came up, and 473 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: then I started digging. Cohen's story in the Times prompted 474 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: Lagrange to do something he should have done far earlier. 475 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: He called Jamie Martin, the forensic expert who had analyzed 476 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: the motherwells, and requested a test on the polit no 477 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: auction house would touch. The tests confirmed Lagrange's worst fears. 478 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: Various pigments in the painting had not existed in ninety nine, 479 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: when the painting was supposedly made. It was forensically impossible 480 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: for the work to be legitimate. The report Lagrange received 481 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: in late November of two thousand eleven brought full throated 482 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: legal action. In a searing letter to Michael Hammer, Lagrange 483 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,959 Speaker 1: demanded that Knodler refund his seventeen million dollars in forty 484 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: eight hours or face a lawsuit. The letter would ultimately 485 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: be the last straw from Michael Hammer to Lagrange's astonishment. 486 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: Hammer responded by closing the Knoedler's brass doors permanently on 487 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: November eleven, sixty five years after it first opened for business. 488 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: Gafara wasn't actually named, but New York Times readers learned 489 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: the name of Ann Friedman and learned too that she 490 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: had been accused of selling fake Motherwell's while she was 491 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: president of Nodler. Was there a sense of starting to 492 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: connect the dots sort of? I remember that day very 493 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: well because it was a big scandal. There was an 494 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: b I investigation. We were talking about, you know, many 495 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: paintings in many millions of dollars, and I knew about 496 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: the Pierre Lagrange lawsuit, and so I had basically been 497 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: planning within the next week to have this you know, 498 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: big expose about this, and then when the gallery closed, 499 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: it was like, oh shit, we have to cover this, 500 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,479 Speaker 1: but you know, we've got this really other, big story, 501 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: but I can't get into all of that yet because 502 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: not every single piece had turned down. So essentially I 503 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: covered that as a new story, um, giving enough detail 504 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: that we knew something was going on, but also not 505 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: essentially wanting to kind of expose what we knew was 506 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: going to be part of this really big takedown. Incredibly, 507 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: just two days before Noodler closed its doors and two 508 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: years since she'd been fired and placed a very strange 509 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: phone call who noted Clifford Steel expert David and Fam, 510 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: the same expert who had viewed Pierre Lagrange's fake Pollock 511 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: in London and telephone on the November twenty eleven. The 512 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: game was up. By then, basically we knew that it 513 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: was all hopes since things were fakes in a truly 514 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: baffling move and was lobbying an FAM to have the 515 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: burned fragment of a fake Clifford Steel painting added officially 516 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: to the Clifford Steel Museum. This was the very same 517 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: painting Carlos Bergantino's had burned with a hair dryer and 518 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: told Glyfa to say had caught fire in a car. 519 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: I was absolutely astonished that Anne wanted me to write 520 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: some kind of a letter about the Clifford Store Museum 521 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: accepting this flagman of the painting, and I told him 522 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: point blank, it's not up to me to do it. 523 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: It's if anyone's going to do it. It It would have 524 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: to be approved by director, by the Bold and so forth. 525 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,919 Speaker 1: So it was to me um a phone call that 526 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: left me spaceless. Even at the time when I wrote it, 527 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: I bore the exclamation marks after that note because of 528 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: extraordinary On the morning of December two, two thousleven high 529 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: pitched scream could be heard from the bedroom of a 530 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: hotel suite in Miami, Florida. The annual Art Basel Fair 531 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: was about to begin, and Domenico and Eleanor Desole had 532 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: arrived early to get premium tickets. Eleanor was scrolling through 533 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: The New York Times on her iPad when a story 534 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: jumped out. Domenico rushed from the shower to see what 535 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: was wrong. Too shocked to speak, Eleanor handed him the 536 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: iPad her hands shake. King Patricia Cohen's first story in 537 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: The New York Times had mentioned the Knoedler and publicly 538 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: identified Glefara Rosales for the first time, but it was 539 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: a short piece and the Disules may not have noticed it. 540 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: That morning's follow up about Pierre Lagrange and his fake 541 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,320 Speaker 1: Pollock made the news all too clear. One of the 542 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: soles first calls that morning was to Ann Friedman and 543 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: swore to the Disilas that the Lagrange Pollock described in 544 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: the New York Times was real. So were the rest 545 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,720 Speaker 1: of the works in the David Herbert collection, including the Disuls, Rothko, 546 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: the Dosuls demanded evidence who was this mysterious Mr x Jr. 547 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: Through whom all these paintings had flowed, who was glefi Rosales, 548 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: for that matter, and promised she would soon be learning 549 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: the identity of the mysterious collector herself. The Soles were 550 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: incredulous and had previous they told them she did know 551 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: the collector. As one of the Dess lawyers later put it, 552 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: the most basic tenet of authenticity for the Rothco was 553 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: a lie. Neither Anne Freedman nor the Nodler Gallery knew 554 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: the true identity of their supposed client. Among the dozen 555 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 1: or so victims who began peppering the now defunct K 556 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: Noodler Gallery with legal demands for their money back was 557 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: Francis Beatty. To her shock and horror, Francis discovered that 558 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: a Clifford Steel painting she had purchased from Anne in 559 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: two thousand was likely just another fake from the supposed 560 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: David Herbert collection. Beatty had loved Clifford Stills paintings from 561 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: her earliest days. They're incredibly exciting. They look like sort 562 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,879 Speaker 1: of lightning or jagged cliffs in an abstract way. They 563 00:37:53,920 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: have enormous electricity and sometimes. The colors are very I 564 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: would say, danse intense, and they have a tremendous sense 565 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: of movement, very dynamic. Finding them was a challenge. Clifford 566 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: stills are rare. You don't know where in the current 567 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: universe there's going to be a Clifford still for sale 568 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 1: and one that someone might let you get your hands on. 569 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: I mean, they're not sitting there in people's inventory. I 570 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: had a colleague who came in and said to me, 571 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: could you sell a great Clifford still, a great early still? 572 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,839 Speaker 1: And I said, you bet you I can, And he said, 573 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: I know where there is one. There's a beauty, and 574 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 1: Ann Friedman has it. Francis rushed over to the nler. 575 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 1: She was stunned. The painting was perfect, the Jagon mountains, 576 00:38:54,440 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: the colors, perfect size. I had sold to pictures of 577 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: this period, so over a period. It took me, you know, 578 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: fifteen years to find the first one, twenty years to 579 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: find the second one. But of course it had no provenance. 580 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:21,280 Speaker 1: Oh I remember very specifically because I said, this has 581 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:27,240 Speaker 1: no provenance and it hasn't been exhibited anywhere. And so 582 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: Anne wrote me an email saying that it belonged to 583 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 1: a Mexican who had gotten it directly from Clifford Still 584 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: and had been in the same family that entire time 585 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: to close the deal and made an unusual promised to Francis. 586 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: If we did the deal, she would reveal the provenance 587 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: to me. I showed it to a wonderful restorer, very 588 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: good friend of mine, Alan goldrac who had been the 589 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: restorer who had unwrapped all the Clifford stills for the 590 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:17,280 Speaker 1: Metropolitan Museum's retrospective. Francis also showed the painting to David 591 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 1: an fhem as much the Clifford still expert as the 592 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: ultimate connoisseur for Pollock and Rothcobe. He had liked the 593 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: picture very much. Despite the positive affirmations from experts, Francis 594 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 1: remained wary. So I said to Anne, I need a 595 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: Nodler guarantee, and you have to guarantee the authenticity of 596 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: this picture with Noler behind it, so if the authenticity 597 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: is questioned, you return the money to the client. And 598 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:57,399 Speaker 1: what did she say to that? Fine? And I got 599 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: her to write a guarantee of authenticity on the Clifford still, 600 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 1: and I gave a copy of it to the client. 601 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: And at that point I thought you know what, We're 602 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: safe if the worst thing possibly happens and something goes wrong. 603 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: It is a Nodler guarantee, and no Ler is the 604 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: last place in the world that would renege on any 605 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:37,240 Speaker 1: kind of guarantee. With that baby and two fellow dealers 606 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 1: put their money down about one million dollars. They sold 607 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: it for one point one million to the collector who 608 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: had pushed for the still in the first place. An 609 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 1: entire decade passed no issues with the painting. Popped up curiously, however, 610 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 1: and failed to keep her side of the bargain with Francis. 611 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: She didn't tell me who she got picture phone. I 612 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: probably should have pressed her on that, but I didn't 613 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:12,359 Speaker 1: because I think once I had obtained this Nodler guarantee 614 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: in writing, I thought that I had sort of an 615 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: impregnable defense. So fast forward to two thousand eleven, Pierre 616 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: Lagrange shouts it from the rooftops that he's paid seventeen 617 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: million dollars for a fake Pollock. What was your reaction 618 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: to that news. I'm not sure I want to say 619 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 1: it on air. I mean, holy moley, um, we were 620 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 1: absolutely stunned. We went and did the forensic testing. I 621 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,560 Speaker 1: think it had some kind of white in it that 622 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 1: hadn't been invented back then. And also the pigments were 623 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:02,360 Speaker 1: of more recent vintage, right. God, So at that point, 624 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 1: obviously you had to call your customer, who who bought 625 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: the painting. We said, we're going to give you back 626 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: your money and sue and I think we um We 627 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 1: sent him a check for one million, one thousand, but 628 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 1: he said to us that he thought the picture was 629 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,200 Speaker 1: now worth three million and he was gonna sue us 630 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: for that much money. I mean the suit must have 631 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: cost three yo dollars. And then we finally settled. You 632 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:40,280 Speaker 1: settled with Ndler, which, of course, by now was almost 633 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 1: like a dead man walking, right. I mean it had 634 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: closed in officially, so you were you were negotiating with 635 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: a company that did it even exist. Right. We were 636 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: in the same boat as everybody else. Little by little, 637 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: lots of people were settling to get something. So we 638 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: were out the million dollars. We were out the cost 639 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: of the litigation a million four so maybe it was 640 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 1: more like a million plus. Well, that must have haunted 641 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,759 Speaker 1: you for a long time. It was a terrible thing 642 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,760 Speaker 1: for the profession. I'm the secretary of the Art Dealers 643 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: Association of America. And I'm an art historian, and I 644 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:28,800 Speaker 1: love the art dealing profession. It's full of wonderful, devoted 645 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 1: experts and people who love art. And this was just 646 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:40,319 Speaker 1: a devastating blow. So it was on everybody's lips, and 647 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,319 Speaker 1: it made you feel like you've gone from decades and 648 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: decades devoted to doing the right thing and suddenly you 649 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: were all like in cahoots with al Capone. Yeah, it 650 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:59,919 Speaker 1: was hugely distressing. What happened to the painting. By the way, 651 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,200 Speaker 1: it's funny because we got the painting back and it 652 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:10,280 Speaker 1: was in our basement and I really wanted to take 653 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,960 Speaker 1: it out, take it to, you know, the Clifford Still Museum, 654 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:18,319 Speaker 1: and you know, stand it up and look at other 655 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 1: pictures of that vintage and figure out how why I 656 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: had how I had made this mistake. There's no question 657 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: that was a fake. But it was so damn good. 658 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: It was in the story to Richard Fannigan and Company. 659 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:37,440 Speaker 1: And when we closed, when Richard left that building, I 660 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,400 Speaker 1: don't know where it is and I kind of have 661 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 1: a mental note of trying to track it down and 662 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:53,239 Speaker 1: find out where it is. By March two, twelves had 663 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 1: a team of lawyers harnessed up. Domenico Disle was a 664 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,479 Speaker 1: gentle family man, but being conned out of eight point 665 00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: four million dollars set of fire raging in his Italian soul. 666 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,319 Speaker 1: He wasn't just set on getting his money back. He 667 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:15,040 Speaker 1: wanted triple damages, a so called ko penalty for what 668 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:19,400 Speaker 1: amounted to a conspiracy among all of the defendants. A 669 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,880 Speaker 1: trio of top art fraud lawyers began inundating the Knodler 670 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: with demands for documents. The number of artists, the number 671 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,520 Speaker 1: of unknown works that cheap prices, know they're got them 672 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,680 Speaker 1: for the incredible markups they sold them for. That's in 673 00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,480 Speaker 1: the papers we got in the first few months. Those 674 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: are just invoices from the nother gallery. I spoke with 675 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,520 Speaker 1: the Disols attorneys, Aaron Crowle, Emily rice Baum and Gregory 676 00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 1: Clark at their law offices, so we had discovery from 677 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,920 Speaker 1: them relatively early on with those documents. So you know, 678 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: that's a big part of the case, right from the beginning, 679 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:03,959 Speaker 1: right and also early on before Jamie Martin had had 680 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,279 Speaker 1: the opportunity to examine a number of different works like 681 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,120 Speaker 1: he had looked at Pierre le Grange's work. I think 682 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 1: he had looked at ours. We were telling the judge, 683 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:16,719 Speaker 1: this is like you go to Canal Street and there's 684 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,759 Speaker 1: a table. You don't have to one watches fake. They're 685 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,520 Speaker 1: all fake. You don't have to test them all to 686 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,840 Speaker 1: know that they're all fake. And sure enough, Jamie proved 687 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: that it was the same paint for the Pollock, for 688 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,920 Speaker 1: the roth Cooe. You know that spread ten years apart. 689 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 1: Over the course of the two years between when we 690 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,000 Speaker 1: filed the case and leading guilty. Over the course of 691 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,400 Speaker 1: that time, Jamie Martin ultimately had access to eighteen works 692 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: out of the fort on the not list, and he 693 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: proved every single one was a fake. What emerged was 694 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,919 Speaker 1: what we showed that trial with the witness testimony, that 695 00:47:55,520 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 1: there were no experts who authenticated these paintings. For another 696 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,239 Speaker 1: it just didn't happen. The lawyers came up with six 697 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:09,319 Speaker 1: red flags clear indicators of a criminal enterprise. The one 698 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,280 Speaker 1: that seems to interest people the most is the profits. 699 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: And you know, our expert testified that ordinarily in the 700 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 1: secondary market, the dealer will make twenty to thirty percent 701 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,200 Speaker 1: of a profit, so they buy for a hundred dollars 702 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: they sell for a hundred thirty dollars, they get to 703 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:31,440 Speaker 1: pocket thirty dollars. No, there was making hundreds from the 704 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,719 Speaker 1: very beginning, making hundreds of percent profits, and as the 705 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,560 Speaker 1: scheme went on, it multiplied to six hundred, seven hundred, 706 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 1: eight hundred percent. Now instead of just a little deep 707 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,080 Speaker 1: in corn on paper, you had a pollock, you had 708 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of them, had a bunch of them, and 709 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: so you know, and the profits were a loan, a signal. 710 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,680 Speaker 1: And I think this is that hit the jurors the most, 711 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: that the profits were a signal that, like, something was 712 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:03,720 Speaker 1: wrong here. But the number of was wildly off the charts. 713 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 1: By early two thousand thirteen, the lawyers for the Soles 714 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,799 Speaker 1: had done enough discovery to feel they had a rock 715 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:18,960 Speaker 1: solid case. Jason Hernandez wasn't so sure, and assistant district 716 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,360 Speaker 1: attorney specializing in fraud cases in New York City's Second District, 717 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: Hernandez had come to be wary of fraud cases built 718 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,920 Speaker 1: on the testimony of experts. That was testimony the defense 719 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,719 Speaker 1: could easily counter with experts of their own. After all, 720 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,920 Speaker 1: who was to say which expert would be right? Hernandez 721 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:42,160 Speaker 1: knew the case would be an enormous challenge. There were 722 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:47,040 Speaker 1: an unusually large number of prominent people who seemingly were 723 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,040 Speaker 1: going to stand by the paintings and say that they 724 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:54,320 Speaker 1: were real. That is uncommon, and I could see right away. Well, 725 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,239 Speaker 1: you know, how do you get over that? Because if 726 00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,239 Speaker 1: the person selling them is showing them to all of 727 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,000 Speaker 1: these esteemed people and they're saying, yep, looks right to me, 728 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,720 Speaker 1: looks good to me, that's not a criminal case anymore. 729 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: Despite the mountain of lawsuits, only one case would go 730 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,360 Speaker 1: to trial Eleanor and Domenico de Soule versus the defendants 731 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:24,120 Speaker 1: and friedmanfro Rosalee, carlos Bergantino's Michael Hammer and the NLAR Gallery. 732 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:34,080 Speaker 1: That's next time on art fraud, Why looks so awfleet 733 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:40,000 Speaker 1: tragic but on a happy face? Smiling can work like magic, 734 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:46,120 Speaker 1: but on a happy face. Take off the gloomy mask, tragedy. 735 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,680 Speaker 1: It's not your style. You look so good that you'll 736 00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:55,479 Speaker 1: be glad you decided to smile. Art Fraud is brought 737 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,560 Speaker 1: to you by I Heart Radio and Cavalry Audio. Our 738 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,920 Speaker 1: exact of producers are Matt del Piano, Keegan Rosenberger, Andy Turner, 739 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:08,640 Speaker 1: myself and Michael Schneyerson. We're produced by Brandon Morgan and 740 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:13,480 Speaker 1: Zach McNeice. Zach also edited and mixed this episode. Lindsay 741 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:27,000 Speaker 1: Hoffman is our managing producer. Our writer is Michael Schneyerson. Happy, Happy, 742 00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,920 Speaker 1: m Hey Elizabeth, you're the co host of that new podcast, 743 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,840 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime. Yes, I am. You know what's ridiculous? Carpeting 744 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,799 Speaker 1: in kitchens and bathrooms? Oh wow, you are good. But 745 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,640 Speaker 1: you know what's also ridiculous? A sixteen year old who 746 00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,719 Speaker 1: breaks into a car dealership and steals guy theories, Lamborghini, 747 00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,480 Speaker 1: what yes to impress a girl. I'll tell you all 748 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,120 Speaker 1: about it on Ridiculous Crime, our podcast about absurd and 749 00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:59,960 Speaker 1: outrageous capers, heist and cons. It's always murder free and ridiculous. 750 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,879 Speaker 1: Listen to Ridiculous Crime on the I Heart Radio app, 751 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:08,879 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Go. It's 752 00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,239 Speaker 1: me Carolyna reviewed as with my front Honey German, and 753 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,240 Speaker 1: we're excited to announce season three of our podcast Life 754 00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,239 Speaker 1: in Spanglish. We are the admanas you wish you had, 755 00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,080 Speaker 1: talking to you about all life has to offer, with 756 00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:25,239 Speaker 1: topics like dating, sex, relationship, life. Ela Latina expect us 757 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,359 Speaker 1: to give you only the real advice you wish your 758 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,120 Speaker 1: Abelita would give you, without the chunk black Listen to 759 00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,839 Speaker 1: Life in Spanguish every Friday on the I Heart Radio app, 760 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:39,240 Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. From Cavalry Audio, 761 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,279 Speaker 1: the studio that brought you The Devil Within and The 762 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:47,000 Speaker 1: Shadow Girls, comes a new true crime podcast, The Pink 763 00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:50,560 Speaker 1: Moon Murders. The local sheriff believes there may be more 764 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:52,799 Speaker 1: than one killery. They were afraid you just face it 765 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,239 Speaker 1: out in that area. The family was targeted, most of 766 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,960 Speaker 1: them targeted while they were sleeping. Who could commit such 767 00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,880 Speaker 1: horrible crimes? And why? Follow The Pink Moon Murders on 768 00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,400 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you 769 00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:06,719 Speaker 1: get your podcasts