1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to short stuff. I'm Josh, there's Chuck, 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: there's Jerry. Let's get to it. I thought this is 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: an interesting pick from you, and I salute you because, um, well, 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: I mean I'm I'm literally saluting you. I see my hand. 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: I'm pretty good at it too. You really are, like 6 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: how high and tight that is you? And you did 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: like the little snap where you're hand kind of reverberates, 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: you know. Oh I hate a lazy salute, so uh yeah, 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: I salute you because this is um people think of 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: they hear the words Johnny Appleseed, they hear that name 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: and immediately they think of the Disney version, or they 12 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: think of folk tale. But Johnny Appleseed was a real 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: dude named John Chapman who planted apple trees. Yeah. It's 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: one of those amazing, awesome myths that turns out to 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: be virtually accurate. Yeah, so it's not a myth at all. No, 16 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: not really. I mean, there's only like some stuff about 17 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: about that legend that are that is somewhat mythical, but 18 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: really most of it's pretty accurate. It's not like he 19 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: had like a giant ox or anything that followed him 20 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: around that was blue. He was basically I think the 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: thing right, the thing that um that that people usually 22 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: get wrong in the retelling with with Johnny Appleseed is 23 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: that he was basically like the world's first flower child, 24 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: and that he was just basically like kind of trapesing 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: along the frontier at the turn of the from the 26 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: eighteenth of the nineteenth century, planting trees just because he 27 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: loved nature. That is not correct. Necessarily, this guy did 28 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: love nature. He's a businessman, he was. He was. He 29 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: did this four like out of a business a sense 30 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: of business, for sure, but he was not like any 31 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: kind of um, hard nosed, hard hitting, like I'll come 32 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: to your house and break your legs kind of businessman. 33 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: He would never double cross anybody or do something in 34 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: business that would make someone else suffer. He apparently was 35 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: well known for never ever reminding someone that they owed 36 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: a debt. He believed that the he believed the good 37 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: Lord would tell that person you need to go Paige, 38 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: Johnny apples He because you owe him some money, and 39 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: it really didn't matter anyway if you bothered him, because 40 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: they knew that they owed the debt. And who was 41 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,119 Speaker 1: he to go bug somebody and make him feel down 42 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: you never knew someone was going through. So he was 43 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: that kind of business man. And yet even with that mentality, 44 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: even with that attitude, he had everything he needed in 45 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: life and more which was not necessarily substantial, because he 46 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: used to sleep on a bed of leaves and little 47 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: twig huts that he made of his own construction on 48 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: the frontier. Well, let's talk about apples for a second. Um. Apples, 49 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: as far as we know, started out in what we 50 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: would call Kazakhstan today. They gained a lot of popularity 51 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: in Rome because they grafted apples and a lot of 52 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: fruit trees. If you want them to grow and fruit 53 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: like you are accustomed to, or like you want them to, 54 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: you don't plan from seed. You you graph them, which 55 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: is when you take a stem with a bud on 56 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: it and through magic, not technique as a gardener, but 57 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: through magic you uh graph that onto another tree instead 58 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: of planting from seed, uh and you would get a 59 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: more reliable outcome, especially in the case of apples, because 60 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: apparently growing apples from seed. If you have a wonderful, red, 61 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: delicious apple and you go spit a seed out into 62 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: the ground, your it might grow into something and maybe 63 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously an apple tree, but it probably will 64 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: not be a red delicious apple that you can eat. No, 65 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: there were called spitters. Apples grown from seed were called 66 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: spitters at least scoring. According to this um the Smithsonian 67 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: article that we found um because they are way, way 68 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,839 Speaker 1: sour like. Apples did not used to be like what 69 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: we think of apples today. They were very, very sour, 70 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: at least the one's grown from seeds. There were sour um, 71 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: and Henry David Thoraux said, did I mention they were sour? 72 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: Henry David thoros said that they would put a squirrels 73 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: teeth on edge. It's pretty sour. That's super sour. And 74 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: I love the way you put it so folksy. And 75 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: now he was a proto hippie, I'll tell you that. 76 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: But this these were the trees that Johnny apple Seed 77 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: was planning. He was planning them from seed um, not 78 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: from grafting. And apparently one reason why he planted them 79 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: from from seed and not grafting was because he was 80 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: a member of the sweden Borgian church Work Work Work, 81 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: which UM which kind of held that plants could feel uh, 82 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: and therefore grafting was inherently cruel because it could conceivably 83 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 1: create suffering in the plants. So he grew from seed. Alright, 84 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: let's take a break. Oh wow, and we'll we'll come 85 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: back and we'll talk about why John Chapman wanted to 86 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: plant all these apples to begin with from seed right 87 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: after this. All right, So Mr Chapman was from Ohio, 88 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: and uh, it's it's funny. We don't know a lot 89 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: about his early years. He was born in actually born 90 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: in Massachusetts, but kind of lived his life in Ohio, 91 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: I think, uh for the most part, and which was 92 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: the west at the time, which is funny. And said, 93 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: all right, here's the deal. The Ohio company associate said, 94 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: all right, you want to go out west and settle. 95 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 1: If you want to form a permanent homestead beyond Ohio, 96 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: then you can get it. You can get a hundred acres. 97 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: But what you have to do, though, is you have 98 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: to plant fifty apple trees and twenty peach trees in 99 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: three years. Um. I guess it's an incentive to make 100 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,559 Speaker 1: the land rich with with plants. Well, also to show 101 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: that you planned to be there in a few years 102 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: when these things started bearing fruit. It was it was 103 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: a way to show that you meant to settle there permanently. 104 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: I guess, well, yeah, but it was it's not like 105 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: build a house. I mean it it had an agricultural benefit. 106 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: I see what you mean. Yeah, I guess that would 107 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: have been part of it then too. Yeah. So he says, 108 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: all right, he sees a business opportunity, and he's like, 109 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: if I can start heading west from Pennsylvania and I 110 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: can get just ahead of these settlers and plant these things, 111 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: like claim this land and plant these trees and these orchards, 112 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: then I can turn around and sell them at a 113 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: much higher value. Yeah, because he improved the land. He 114 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: was the first squatter kind of in a way, I guess. 115 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: But the other thing that I saw he did too 116 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: was he would establish nurseries in the area as well. 117 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: So if if you didn't buy attractive land that he 118 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: had already developed, you could also still just come and 119 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: buy his trees from him. Um. And he did this 120 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: for decades, going up and down the frontier, because the 121 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: frontier kept kept growing further and further west. And at first, 122 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: I mean when he when he first embarked out, and 123 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: I mean we're talking Ohio. Ohio was the frontier there 124 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: was there was no United States beyond that. I don't 125 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: think Ohio was even a state quite yet. So he's 126 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: walking up and down these unsettled lands, um like growing 127 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: these orchids, planning apple trees, and then also creating nurseries. 128 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: But at the same time too, he was also serving 129 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: as a liaison between these incoming settlers and the Native 130 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: Americans who know now suddenly had neighbors, whether they wanted 131 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: them or not. UM And he apparently uh spent a 132 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: lot of time learning the languages of the different tribes 133 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: that he encountered, and they grew to trust him, and 134 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: so he became an advocate for the settlers, but also 135 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: was able to advocate for the Native Americans too. He 136 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: was just that kind of a guy. He was that 137 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: he was that that's kind of the cut the cloth 138 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: he was cut from. I bet he put his mouth 139 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: around a piece piper too, speaking of one of the 140 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: first hippies. Uh, all right, So he's going around, he's 141 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: planting all these apple orchards and I guess presumably peach 142 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: because he was required to. But he's not known as 143 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: Johnny Peachtree. No, just apple seed or peach seed, I guess. Uh. 144 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: And he Here's the thing though, with these apples, like 145 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: we said, because he's planning them from seed only and 146 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: not grafting them. It's pretty wild, like it's like the 147 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: wild West. Apple wise, you don't know what's gonna come up. 148 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: Um many times, like you said, they're much too sour 149 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: to eat, But what they weren't too sour for is 150 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: to make booze out of them in the form of cider. 151 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: And cider was a big, big part of frontier life. 152 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: Like they drank it. It's apparently, um New Englanders that 153 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: transplanted out on the western edges of Ohio would drink 154 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: close to eleven ounces of hard cider per day. And 155 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: it was a time when water quality was suspect, and 156 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: you knew you could count on that cider, right because 157 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: I mean it's alcoholic, so it's fermented, which means that 158 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: any harmful bacteria has been killed. It can't really survive 159 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: in an alcoholic drink, right, It's wonderful, So they would 160 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: drink cider instead of water, which, by the way, eleven 161 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: ounces is it's like a bottle of cider today. No 162 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: it's not not too much, No it's not. But everyone 163 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: drank it every day. Instead of water. So there was 164 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: you know, a certain amount of buds going on, I'm sure, 165 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: and who knows what the alcoholic content of the cider, right, 166 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: but that was I mean, that was what apples were 167 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: used for. Um. I think Michael Pollan said that up 168 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: until prohibition, an apple in the United States had a 169 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: much greater chance of being turned into hard cider than 170 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: it did it just being eaten. And again it was 171 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: because most apples in the US were grown from seed, 172 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: meaning they were sour, meaning they were much better or 173 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: for cider than they were for eating, right, And that's 174 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: how it was again up until prohibition. And one of 175 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: the reasons why cider just kind of went away is 176 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: because prohibition. Apparently the Feds used to chop down apple 177 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: trees where they saw him to kind of say, no, 178 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: you're not gonna make any cider out of this, you 179 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: hay seed hick. You got it. I'm gonna cut down 180 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,199 Speaker 1: this tree right in front of your face, right exactly. Uh. 181 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: You like cider, Yeah, I love it? Yeah, Yeah, it's 182 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: great stuff. Um. My initial introduction to cider was you know, 183 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: really sweet, like I guess the first wave of the resurgence, 184 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: like back in college in those days, what was the 185 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: one that everyone drank would chuck? Yeah, that was it. Yeah, 186 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: it was basically the zema of cider, at least back then. 187 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: I haven't had it in a while, so maybe they 188 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: kind of I don't know, so that's what I'm saying. 189 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: They may have toned it down just regular hard cider. 190 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: Oh yes, And it's not supposed to be it's it 191 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: was never supposed to be sweet. That was just a 192 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: weird anomally. So I think the cider now is much 193 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: closer to the traditional citer, which is it's it's got 194 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: like a deadbit of sweetness to it, but it's it's 195 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: definitely a lot more um beery than than apple juicy. 196 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to dip my toe in the cider 197 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: pond once again. Do not do that, Just drink it. 198 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: Uh what else we have? Do we have anything else? 199 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: In this guy? Johnny Appleseed? Um No, I think I 200 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: mentioned he was a sweet businessman. He was a friend 201 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,599 Speaker 1: to the Native American and the European settler check and 202 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: check he uh oh. There's supposedly a tree in Nova, 203 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 1: Ohio on a farm. It's a hundred and seventy five 204 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: year old tree, and some people believe that it is 205 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: the last remaining tree that can be found that Johnny 206 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: Chapman a k a. Johnny Appleseed actually planted, because again 207 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: the prohibition federalis chopped all his other stuff down. So 208 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 1: that's Johnny Appleseed. Everybody, Drink it up. If you want 209 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us, send us an email. 210 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: You can do worse than that. Just send it off 211 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: to Stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com.