Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison coming to you from the home office in Austin, Texas,
Speaker 1: and we have a great show today. I'm really excited
Speaker 1: that Jackie Goldschneider and Jen Fessler from the Housewives of
Speaker 1: New Jersey are going to join me. They also just
Speaker 1: kicked off a new podcast, Two Jersey Jays. Get It Jen, Jackie,
Speaker 1: Two Jersey Jays. The podcast has been a smashing success.
Speaker 1: It's topping all the charts in a lot of the
Speaker 1: reason and well, I guess a lot of the subject
Speaker 1: matter so far has dealt with the fact that Jen
Speaker 1: Fessler has been very open about this, so I'm not
Speaker 1: talking behind her back yet. Jen has been on one
Speaker 1: of the weight loss drugs. She has been using it consistently.
Speaker 1: Jackie Goldschneider has not. She's kind of outspoken about not
Speaker 1: being on it. And she has been very outspoken about
Speaker 1: eating disorders in a battle that really she had to
Speaker 1: stop to save her own life, and the Housewives were
Speaker 1: a big part of that and saving her life. And
Speaker 1: we'll talk about all that, but you know, Lauren and
Speaker 1: I have been really interested in this talking about ozebic, Wagovia, manjaro,
Speaker 1: any of these drugs and how they're everywhere. A lot
Speaker 1: of people are on it, and some of the people
Speaker 1: are owning it, like Jackie, which I really appreciate, but
Speaker 1: a lot of people aren't, a lot of people are
Speaker 1: denying it or lying. And that psychology is interesting as well.
Speaker 1: So I really wanted to dive into, not the medical side,
Speaker 1: which you know, we could do with a great doctor
Speaker 1: like doctor Ali, which check out that episode if you
Speaker 1: have not. They really are two very just normal women
Speaker 1: who deal with these societal pressures that we talk about,
Speaker 1: and I think it's very relatable to have these conversations
Speaker 1: and I welcome them to the most dramatic podcast ever.
Speaker 1: So Jackie and Jen, first of all, thank you for
Speaker 1: being here, and congratulations on the new podcast. To Jersey Jays,
Speaker 1: thank you so much.
Speaker 2: You're having so much fun with it.
Speaker 1: I mean, we could have gone the blonde, the brunette,
Speaker 1: we could have gone a lot of directions, but two
Speaker 1: Jersey Jays is pretty solid.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, we're loving it. I actually the brunette we
Speaker 2: still change, Yeah, you still change it.
Speaker 1: What have you both enjoyed about this podcast? Because by
Speaker 1: the way. It has blown up. It's on the top
Speaker 1: ten list everywhere, so it's really been a huge success.
Speaker 1: What are you guys enjoying about it?
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Jed, Okay. I mean, well, first of all,
Speaker 2: I just can't believe it myself. I cannot believe that
Speaker 2: we even have a podcast because I've so enjoyed doing
Speaker 2: podcasts in the power being a guest on podcasts. So
Speaker 2: I guess what's really enjoyed about it is that it's
Speaker 2: just shooting this with Can I say that my lifehouse
Speaker 2: absolutely with Oh good, Okay? That I like that about it,
Speaker 2: and I love shooting this with Jackie and it's fun
Speaker 2: and it's you know, the response has been so nice.
Speaker 2: And also I'm hoping that I listen to podcasts all
Speaker 2: the time and it does help me. It does sort
Speaker 2: of like make me feel like I can relate about it.
Speaker 2: You know, so many different topics that I key into,
Speaker 2: so I'm hopeful that our listeners will feel the same way.
Speaker 2: But it's fun, right, It's really fun. I mean, especially
Speaker 2: we're super close and.
Speaker 3: We we always banter, so why not turn it into
Speaker 3: a podcast, right, But I love being creative. I have
Speaker 3: so much to say about so many things, and anytime
Speaker 3: I listen to a podcast, I was always like, I
Speaker 3: can do that. We have some dream guests, We do
Speaker 3: have great Yes, well, Jen's got like a massive crush.
Speaker 2: No, it's not. I don't have crushes anymore. I' way
Speaker 2: too old for crushes. I just have a massive respect
Speaker 2: and love for Michael Rappaport.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: I think he's just so funny and so interesting and
Speaker 2: so passionate, and he's taken up the cause. Yes of
Speaker 2: y allan. I just respect him tremendously. I'd love to
Speaker 2: have him on.
Speaker 1: He would be a great interview. And I know Michael
Speaker 1: a little bit, and first of all, he's unbelievably funny,
Speaker 1: good actor. But you know, it is has been interesting
Speaker 1: to see him really shut down everything else he was
Speaker 1: doing and take up this cause. Good for him for
Speaker 1: standing by his convictions and deciding this is what I
Speaker 1: want to do. I think you have to respect. Whether
Speaker 1: you agree with him or not on everything, that's that's
Speaker 1: up to you, and you can debate that all you want.
Speaker 1: I just respect when somebody really believes in what they
Speaker 1: are doing and are willing to put it all on
Speaker 1: the line.
Speaker 2: I feel the exact same way when he used to talk.
Speaker 2: I told him I had the pleasure of meeting him
Speaker 2: and his beautiful wife, and I said, during COVID, you know,
Speaker 2: he's very anti Trump, but with that the politics of
Speaker 2: that factor out for a moment. He was so passionate,
Speaker 2: but he would start screaming and the veins in.
Speaker 1: His neck about I feel that it's on the daily
Speaker 1: with him.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I can't and I would laugh my glass off
Speaker 2: just watching him.
Speaker 3: He would become so overwhelmed and scream and.
Speaker 2: I just like I would just die.
Speaker 1: He does cameos. He did one for a friend of
Speaker 1: ours who lost a bet, and he just would go,
Speaker 1: you know, he's very blue. He doesn't mind just cussing
Speaker 1: and going at people in his cam. It's really funny stuff.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I agree, And that's one of the great
Speaker 1: things about these podcasts. Very cathartic, but also the amazing
Speaker 1: things that I've learned. Lauren and I just had an
Speaker 1: amazing conversation with the concierge doctor of Beverly Hills, doctor Ali,
Speaker 1: and we went deep on something that you guys have
Speaker 1: been talking about. It's one of the things I really
Speaker 1: want to get into with you, and that is the
Speaker 1: weight loss drugs, a Zimpic, Wagovia, Manjaro. You know, there's
Speaker 1: three or four of them now that he was talking about.
Speaker 1: Laura and I have been fascinated about this because it
Speaker 1: is everywhere it is. You know, I'm in Austin, Texas
Speaker 1: right now, and everybody is on a weight loss drug.
Speaker 1: Obviously the housewives, it's definitely a part of the housewives culture,
Speaker 1: but it's a part of every housewife culture. It really
Speaker 1: has become a huge thing in our society. And I
Speaker 1: know you guys talk a lot about it, and you
Speaker 1: have great perspectives both. Jen, you've been a big proponent
Speaker 1: of being on it and Jack, you've been very outspoken
Speaker 1: about your weight loss struggles your entire life, something I'm
Speaker 1: actually very knowledgeable about as well, and I want to
Speaker 1: talk to you about that. So I wanted to kind
Speaker 1: of extend that conversation to the two of you, and
Speaker 1: first of all, just I guess broadbrush where you stand
Speaker 1: on it, and Jen, we'll start with you.
Speaker 2: Sure. Thanks. I don't know that I'm a proponent of it.
Speaker 2: I'm a proponent of it for myself. Yeah, And you know,
Speaker 2: today on Good Morning America, there was a doctor on
Speaker 2: and I don't remember his name, talking about the other
Speaker 2: positive aspects of these drugs, and they're called what are
Speaker 2: the letters, Yeah, but no, but they're called to me anyway,
Speaker 2: not just for weight loss, for heart disease, stroke, holycystic
Speaker 2: ovarian syndrome, and addiction. And Jackie and I spoke about
Speaker 2: on our podcast, or our first podcast, we spoke about this,
Speaker 2: and I talked about how I'm a I'm a heavy drinker,
Speaker 2: and the desire to drink has not vanished completely, but
Speaker 2: it is certainly minimized. And I think there are for me,
Speaker 2: there are a lot of advantages to it, but the
Speaker 2: biggest advantage of is that And the doctor talked about
Speaker 2: this today on GMA. The noise, the food noise, the
Speaker 2: weight noise has been almost eliminated, and for the first
Speaker 2: time in my life, I have some freedom around interesting
Speaker 2: food and so, but do you still enjoy its just
Speaker 2: been everything?
Speaker 1: Has it diminished that at all for you?
Speaker 2: It's a great question, because there are there have been times,
Speaker 2: not recently because I've lowered my dose, but where I
Speaker 2: really couldn't enjoy eating and I I that was never
Speaker 2: my goal. So I when I lowered the dosage that
Speaker 2: came back, the joy of eating came back, and it
Speaker 2: doesn't without plaguing me, but still have an appetite. I
Speaker 2: was just away in Mexico and we ate our way,
Speaker 2: you know, through this vacation and loved every minute of it.
Speaker 2: The sort of torture that comes with that has dissipated
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Jackie, where do you stand on all this?
Speaker 3: I dislike the drugs for you know, losing the last
Speaker 3: few pounds or getting skinny for a number of reasons,
Speaker 3: and I have no issue with any particular person using it.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's the easy way out necessarily, because
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of side effects that people
Speaker 3: have to deal with. My fear is number one, given
Speaker 3: my history with anorexia, which I battled for twenty years
Speaker 3: and it nearly killed me, and I've been in recovery
Speaker 3: for about two and a half years now. But I
Speaker 3: think that anything that artificially shuts off your hunger is
Speaker 3: basically inducing and eating disorder. Yeah, right, So it took
Speaker 3: me a really long time to understand how to accept
Speaker 3: my hunger cues and then eat until I was satisfied.
Speaker 3: And for me to just watch people in droves just
Speaker 3: shutting off their hunger so they can lose weight. Just
Speaker 3: it raises a lot of red flags for me. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of unknowns with these drugs, and I feel
Speaker 3: like in a few years from now, there might be
Speaker 3: things that we know about them that we didn't know before,
Speaker 3: and people might have to start going off of them,
Speaker 3: and then they're going to end up being so many
Speaker 3: people with eating disorders who never had one before. And
Speaker 3: that's you know, that's where I have skin in the
Speaker 3: game because I know how awful, how awful that life is,
Speaker 3: and I just think that they are not so healthy.
Speaker 3: I mean, like even Jen admitted she doesn't exercise, right,
Speaker 3: you don't always go for like the most nourishing new right.
Speaker 2: Well, that's on me, right, I mean, that's that's on me, right.
Speaker 3: So, but that's a lot of people like you lose
Speaker 3: a lot of muscle masks, which is not good for
Speaker 3: an aging woman.
Speaker 2: Very true, absolutely true. But I will say that you
Speaker 2: don't have to I mean, you have to lift weights
Speaker 2: and you have to choose vegetable And I had an incident.
Speaker 2: We spoke about this as well on our first podcast,
Speaker 2: where I had an impacted bowel and I was not
Speaker 2: drinking any and it was my doctor was very clear,
Speaker 2: you had got to drink water, you got to take fiber,
Speaker 2: you got to eat your fruits and vegetables, and I
Speaker 2: was ignoring all of that advice.
Speaker 1: I'm curious, Jen, And this is an awkward question because
Speaker 1: I've never seen you, ny are no awkward, Yeah, but
Speaker 1: so I'm just curious as you look at your own body,
Speaker 1: so you get out of the shower, what are you
Speaker 1: seeing now that you didn't see them?
Speaker 2: So I see a lot of hanging skin, and that's
Speaker 2: just the truth of it. I see a woman who's
Speaker 2: the bottom half of her body looks like she's ninety
Speaker 2: years old? But why do you want it? Because it
Speaker 2: doesn't I'm not trying to be Keeni ready, I'm not
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not walking a catwalk. And I never
Speaker 2: loved the lower half of my body anyway. But I've
Speaker 2: definitely lost muscle again. I'm not doing squats every day
Speaker 2: right like I like I should be. Well.
Speaker 1: Doctor Ali actually brought up something very interesting. You know,
Speaker 1: you can really kind of maintain but you're not going
Speaker 1: to gain muscle mass. Let's say a guy like say
Speaker 1: I wanted to be ripped. Getting on these drugs will
Speaker 1: not do that. You're not going to slim down and
Speaker 1: be all fired up, because he's like, you're going to
Speaker 1: lose muscle mass. You know, you can stay on the
Speaker 1: protein diet, you can do all these things, but you're
Speaker 1: not going to get ripped. You're not going to get bigger.
Speaker 1: So it is an interesting slippery slope, as Jackie was saying,
Speaker 1: And I'm curious from someone who's used it as opposed
Speaker 1: to a doctor, are you on it full time or
Speaker 1: because he said, you know, what I don't mind is
Speaker 1: people getting on it for a bit, dealing with whatever,
Speaker 1: say they couldn't get rid of that last thirty pounds
Speaker 1: or whatever it was, but getting rid of that and
Speaker 1: then being done and then now trying to be healthy.
Speaker 1: Is that Is that your outlook? Is that your process?
Speaker 1: Or are you like, no, No, I'm just staying on
Speaker 1: this as a steady diet.
Speaker 2: So I've lowered my dosage. Yeah quite a bit, and
Speaker 2: I actually put on maybe five pounds, which I wanted to.
Speaker 2: I was actually feeling like I was looking just prel
Speaker 2: But if I'm being honest, I maybe maybe I'll stay
Speaker 2: on it indefinitely I don't have a plan to go
Speaker 2: completely off of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jackie, it's you know, your story really struck a
Speaker 1: chord with me. Someone very very close to me almost
Speaker 1: died in college with eating disorder in arexia and bolimia,
Speaker 1: both of them, and I thought the same thing when
Speaker 1: I heard this. I'm like, man, this has got to
Speaker 1: be at the very least triggering for someone who has
Speaker 1: dealt with this, who battled so hard. And by the way,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like addiction. You never stop that fight.
Speaker 1: You never stop that battle. I know this person is
Speaker 1: still fighting with it to this day, and I'm like, well, man,
Speaker 1: what is this doing to your psyche?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it made my recovery a lot harder.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't trigger me.
Speaker 3: I know that I could go on it if I
Speaker 3: really wanted to, so it's not like I never would.
Speaker 3: But it's not triggering in that sense of like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, all these people are getting skinny. I don't
Speaker 3: envy that I had it for a long time and
Speaker 3: I chose to change my life. What I selfishly don't
Speaker 3: like about it is that I had a lot of
Speaker 3: people that I looked at during the course of my
Speaker 3: sickness where I would watch them eat and say to myself,
Speaker 3: how do you do that?
Speaker 2: How do you just eat.
Speaker 3: Something and not freak out about it and not worry
Speaker 3: about what's in it and just enjoy it and then
Speaker 3: move on with your day. Because I was never able
Speaker 3: to do that, And when I recovered, I looked forward
Speaker 3: to being a part of that world. And then many,
Speaker 3: many of the people in that world who I admired
Speaker 3: started using these drugs. So now I am the person
Speaker 3: who has the healthy relationship with food, and they are
Speaker 3: the people who are on these drugs and are have
Speaker 3: no appetite anymore. So for me, it's a little bit
Speaker 3: like all of these people who were my role models
Speaker 3: for what a healthy relationship with food look like, they
Speaker 3: no longer exist.
Speaker 2: So I just want to jump in for one second.
Speaker 2: So of Chirs, you wouldn't know this, but I actually
Speaker 2: was believe it for most of my twenties. And I
Speaker 2: will tell you that I totally get what Jackie is saying.
Speaker 2: But for me, this is healthiest my relationship with food
Speaker 2: has ever been, right, because you know, the struggle was
Speaker 2: and is real, and once you're addicted to food and
Speaker 2: you've I was also a compulsive overeater, still like over
Speaker 2: the past, however, many years, I go in and out
Speaker 2: of that binging cycle, that crazy binging cycle and the
Speaker 2: remorse that comes with it the next day, and eating
Speaker 2: when I'm not hungry. So it's like I finally feel
Speaker 2: like one of those people that Jackie's describing who can
Speaker 2: eat and not have to finish their plate but still
Speaker 2: enjoy food. So I think it's you know, it's it's
Speaker 2: sort of a mixed bag.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think maybe you are the one of the exceptions.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Also, Chris, people don't realize that a lot of these
Speaker 3: studies that tout how wonderful these drugs are are funded
Speaker 3: by the drug companies who.
Speaker 2: Create the strug.
Speaker 1: Well, doctor Alie and I were very frank about that
Speaker 1: there are.
Speaker 3: Side effects that people are not like reading about in
Speaker 3: the paper every day because they're not you know, there's
Speaker 3: there's a lot of things behind the scenes. I mean,
Speaker 3: go watch Dope sic, you know, like you'll see what
Speaker 3: these pharma companies do, and it's just scary, Like I
Speaker 3: would never be able to be on a drug like
Speaker 3: this knowing that everything could unravel if by some chance
Speaker 3: it had to be taken off the market. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: like that would drive me crazy and I would never
Speaker 3: be able to relax.
Speaker 1: And you know, Laura and I after talking to doctor Ali,
Speaker 1: and we've been talking a lot about this because Oprah was,
Speaker 1: you know, very open about it, and you guys in
Speaker 1: your your Housewives world, we'll talk about that more because
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know how what's the percentage of
Speaker 1: housewives do you think are on one of these drugs?
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I will say at Bravocon this year,
Speaker 3: every like there was no one overweight.
Speaker 2: No one was overweight. Have there ever been a house
Speaker 2: Has there ever been a housewife that was over Yeah,
Speaker 2: everyone was thin. I would say, God, I don't know
Speaker 2: a third of them maybe that were heavy. No, No,
Speaker 2: that are on on I don't know. I mean, I
Speaker 2: your guess is as good as mine. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean on our cast, like at least half the cast, right, I.
Speaker 2: Mean talked about it. Yeah, that are honest. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: admit to being on it. So we're not like outing anybody.
Speaker 1: And Jackie, that's a very interesting point too. Those that
Speaker 1: admit it and then those that don't. You know, obviously
Speaker 1: there are those that are either denying, lying, or just
Speaker 1: ignoring but they're on it. What do you think that percentage.
Speaker 2: Is in the house eize world? Are just in general,
Speaker 2: in the housewives world a few on each cast? I well,
Speaker 2: you know, in the real world, like I have so
Speaker 2: many friends that are on it, and they don't share
Speaker 2: that information with anyone but me because they know that
Speaker 2: I'm on it, because I'm so open about it, right,
Speaker 2: and then I'm sworn to secrecy. So I think that
Speaker 2: there are so many women and men who are ashamed
Speaker 2: to be on it, and you shouldn't. There shouldn't be
Speaker 2: shame around it.
Speaker 1: Well, that's something interesting. We talked so doctor Ali, who's
Speaker 1: again he's the doctor to the Stars. He has a
Speaker 1: lot of celebrities, and he said, look, three quarters, he's like,
Speaker 1: probably seventy percent are walking around on one of these
Speaker 1: weight loss drugs. And there is this you know, there
Speaker 1: are those like you that are very open about it
Speaker 1: and very honest. I think it's very healthy. I'm glad
Speaker 1: Oprah is talking about it because if nothing else, it
Speaker 1: creates a debate. You can start asking questions instead of
Speaker 1: doing things in the shadows, which really is never really healthy.
Speaker 1: So what is the shame? Why are people lying? What
Speaker 1: is it about us that we want to say, well, no,
Speaker 1: I never got a boob job, I never got a
Speaker 1: nose job. I'm all natural. I've lost thirty pounds naturally.
Speaker 1: What is that?
Speaker 2: Go ahead?
Speaker 3: Well, I think there's a narrative in our and we
Speaker 3: were going to talk about this today on our But
Speaker 3: there's this narrative that, like you that these drugs are
Speaker 3: the easy way out, and there's shame. There's like you
Speaker 3: should be a shame to yourself if you haven't tried
Speaker 3: everything else.
Speaker 2: First, Yeah, we ha'ds Sonny because we are going to
Speaker 2: talk about this today in terms of plastic surgery and
Speaker 2: why there's so much sort of shame around it. But
Speaker 2: I I think that they're okay. So this is just
Speaker 2: what I know. I don't want to get anybody riled up,
Speaker 2: but there's there was talk about the fact that there
Speaker 2: was a shortage and that people who needed it couldn't
Speaker 2: get it. What I know, what I've heard and I've
Speaker 2: done my research on it, is that at one point
Speaker 2: there was a shortage of the actual pens that ozempic
Speaker 2: cam in, right, not semi glue tide, not the medicine
Speaker 2: itself that you get from compound pharmacies, but that was
Speaker 2: I think that's a big reason why people have been shamed.
Speaker 2: And I would feel a lot of shame if I
Speaker 2: thought that I was taking medicine out of people's hands
Speaker 2: who need it. I don't believe that I'm doing that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're definitely not now. I mean, there's plenty
Speaker 1: of it. I also wonder, because look, I'm a big skeptic,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to pharmaceuticals. Was it a I
Speaker 1: call it the pink's hot dog theory? Was there really
Speaker 1: a shortage or do they just want to create a
Speaker 1: line so it looks like it's busy, you know they
Speaker 1: did they announce the Oh my gosh, it's crazy. You
Speaker 1: can't get your hands on it, so you would rush
Speaker 1: to a doctor and try and get it. That's just
Speaker 1: the skeptic in making interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Possibly, I think that people label, you know, ozembic users
Speaker 3: as lazy. There's also some kind of like resentment. I
Speaker 3: think that some of the people who are calling other
Speaker 3: people lazy really want to go on it themselves, and
Speaker 3: maybe they can't, you know, find one thousand dollars a month,
Speaker 3: which many many people can't, and that's you know, it
Speaker 3: seems like it's a drug for rich people to get thin,
Speaker 3: you know, and that goes along with that understandably.
Speaker 1: Jenny, have you talked about which one you're on, because
Speaker 1: there's several now semi.
Speaker 2: Glue Tide, which is like the generic I guess, okay,
Speaker 2: right of ozempic. I believe by ozempic. Right, So it's
Speaker 2: made in a compound pharmacy because.
Speaker 1: There's ozempic and Wagovia. But then now.
Speaker 3: Menjar, there's a lot more now, Yeah, And you know
Speaker 3: what scares me, Chris, is that now I believe the
Speaker 3: FDAs is working on approving it for kids, and that
Speaker 3: is horrifying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I understand it all, Yeah.
Speaker 3: An adult making that decision for themselves. But you take
Speaker 3: a child who doesn't like their body and you tell
Speaker 3: them that instead of trying to like help them understand
Speaker 3: how to eat in a way that's better for them
Speaker 3: or like more physical exercise, you put them on a
Speaker 3: drug instead.
Speaker 2: For me, that is horrifying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it is. It's scary. And you know,
Speaker 1: I have two kids, you know, luckily they are grown
Speaker 1: and have kind of navigated this mine field of whether
Speaker 1: it's social media now, weight loss drugs and all that.
Speaker 1: I have a nineteen year well she just turned twenty
Speaker 1: the other day, twenty year old daughter, and you know,
Speaker 1: a twenty one year old son. And the reason I
Speaker 1: love talking to women about this is because and Lauren
Speaker 1: say the same thing. It's very different. The societal you know,
Speaker 1: pressures that my daughter faces are not the societal pressures
Speaker 1: my son faces. They are very different.
Speaker 2: I have a twenty one year old daughter and a
Speaker 2: twenty three year old son, same thing. So I concur Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's so different, am I daughter is has type one diabetes,
Speaker 2: not to be confused with type two diabetes, which is
Speaker 2: what these drugs are prescribed for. But I can tell
Speaker 2: you that my daughter is eats in such a healthy
Speaker 2: way in part because of the fact that she has
Speaker 2: type one diabetes, but also because of the weight issue, right,
Speaker 2: and the pressure that she felt, especially in middle school
Speaker 2: and high school. She really struggled and she was never
Speaker 2: really overweight, right, but it was all encompassing and very
Speaker 2: very difficult to navigate.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, there was this kind of shift from
Speaker 1: the perfect body. Are we really getting away from that
Speaker 1: or really is it just we're back to.
Speaker 3: Where we were, So we're really getting away from that
Speaker 3: we're really getting away from that, and every day there's
Speaker 3: more drugs, and I think the whole thing was maybe
Speaker 3: a farce. And I am so grateful that this whole
Speaker 3: ozembic craze started after I chose to recover, because if
Speaker 3: it had started before, I'm not sure that I would
Speaker 3: have found the strength to say, let me gain weight
Speaker 3: while the whole world is losing weight.
Speaker 1: Is there any positive that you see, say, say, someone
Speaker 1: is beliemic or inorexic, is that and there? Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you know what doctor could say, look, let's get you
Speaker 1: on this. And you know, I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that if that mindset would have worked on
Speaker 1: the person that was so close to me, or if
Speaker 1: it would have worked with you, like would you have
Speaker 1: started eating or No.
Speaker 3: Not for somebody struggling with an eating disorder, unless it's
Speaker 3: binge eating disorder. Each case, I do think these drugs
Speaker 3: can definitely help, But if you're struggling with anorexia, no,
Speaker 3: these drugs are just replacing one form with another.
Speaker 2: What about addiction? What about drinking?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be interested to see. I mean, obviously the
Speaker 1: studies aren't in on this, but people are talking about it,
Speaker 1: and you said the person on the morning show was
Speaker 1: referring to it, and Lauren and I have read studies
Speaker 1: about the possibility that you know, it could help addiction.
Speaker 1: I makes sense. It's a blocker.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a side effect.
Speaker 1: Yeah it could.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think from what I remember, and I
Speaker 2: remember I'm fifty five years old and it was only
Speaker 2: hours ago. But from what I remember, it has been
Speaker 2: shown too really help with addiction. And as I was saying,
Speaker 2: I am a heavy drinker, I was. I said in
Speaker 2: our last podcast years ago, I was really concerned about
Speaker 2: my relationship with alcohol, and I checked myself into an
Speaker 2: outpatient program three times a week. And I'm always watching, watching,
Speaker 2: watching to see, you know, what is my relationship with
Speaker 2: alcohol and in the moment, and this has changed all
Speaker 2: of that. And it's like a miracle. I mean, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: but there's I have an aversion to it.
Speaker 1: Look, at the end of the day, it is a
Speaker 1: fascinating topic. I think I'm glad that you two ladies
Speaker 1: are talking about it in such an open, honest way.
Speaker 1: I think the Oprah talking about it, I think other
Speaker 1: people kind of coming to the forefront. Lauren felt it
Speaker 1: you know, we were heading up to our wedding a
Speaker 1: few months ago go and she was asked by some
Speaker 1: of the ladies in the neighborhood, hey, do you know,
Speaker 1: do you want to get on this before your wedding
Speaker 1: to kind of sharpen up or lose ten pounds or
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And Lauren really struggled with it, and
Speaker 1: she stayed strong and she did not take it, and
Speaker 1: she has not taken it, but she said, I haven't
Speaker 1: ruled it out, you know, I'm still weighing the options.
Speaker 1: But that pressure on her, even she knew I loved her,
Speaker 1: I find her so beautiful, sexy, whatever, that wasn't the question.
Speaker 1: It had to do with her and the pressure she
Speaker 1: was feeling internally that she almost took this drug, and
Speaker 1: that pressure is real for our kids, for you, for everybody.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, luckily, I don't feel there's not a single
Speaker 3: part of me that wants to be on these drugs.
Speaker 2: Nothing. No, And I.
Speaker 3: Hope for all the people who share my mindset that
Speaker 3: I can be a voice for that, because I am
Speaker 3: there's no part of me that envy's anybody who's on
Speaker 3: any of these drugs. And I'm so glad that it
Speaker 3: works well for you and that it's complemented your life.
Speaker 3: But there's I have there's no part of me that
Speaker 3: season upside.
Speaker 1: In the long run, I love that y'all can love
Speaker 1: each other and have this this huge different opinion.
Speaker 2: I mean, by the way, very anti housewives.
Speaker 1: But it's by the way, it's okay that we disagree
Speaker 1: on a topic in this world. It's okay. You know,
Speaker 1: we don't need to cancel jin We don't need to
Speaker 1: cancel Jackie. You know we do it. It's okay you
Speaker 1: can actually disagree with someone.
Speaker 2: Degree and knock it canceled.
Speaker 1: Amen, What a weird concept. Speaking of housewives? A have
Speaker 1: has it changed you?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: Was honestly Jenna's And I know, I don't mean to
Speaker 1: get back on the weight loss thing, like has it
Speaker 1: changed you? And that is that one of the reasons
Speaker 1: you got on it? How else? Has it changed your
Speaker 1: life and your world?
Speaker 2: You know? It's interesting again. Our next podcast is about
Speaker 2: plastic surgery. And I got on Housewives and as soon
Speaker 2: as season one wrapped, I got a facelift and a
Speaker 2: nose job and started semi glue Tide. So I barely
Speaker 2: recognize myself in the mirror. But that wasn't all about it.
Speaker 2: This is my honest to god truth. That wasn't just
Speaker 2: about housewives. That was about the fact that I at
Speaker 2: the time I was fifty four years old, and way
Speaker 2: before I even it was even a thought to go
Speaker 2: on The Housewives of New Jersey, I was interviewing doctors
Speaker 2: for facelifts. So does it looking back at season one?
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't love what I see in terms of, like,
Speaker 2: you know, my neck. I didn't think that I looked
Speaker 2: so heavy on it necessarily, but I think I look
Speaker 2: better now. I didn't feel this pressure to go on
Speaker 2: ozembic or I wasn't going to look good enough for
Speaker 2: season two, But I feel way more confident filming season two.
Speaker 2: I was going into it feeling way more confident about
Speaker 2: my physical appearance.
Speaker 1: Jackie, do you feel the same, Yes, I mean no.
Speaker 3: For me. Well, so, I've been on it for six years,
Speaker 3: and I think what was hard on me. I didn't
Speaker 3: really do anything to me. I haven't done anything to
Speaker 3: my face except like fillers and botox. But I think
Speaker 3: what was harder on me than watching it back was
Speaker 3: hearing what people said about me on social media. So
Speaker 3: I could watch back the early seasons and I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh god, you just you know, you look simpler, you
Speaker 3: look younger, your style is less stylish. But people on
Speaker 3: social media, their feedback on what was wrong with my
Speaker 3: features really impacted me and made me want to change everything.
Speaker 3: By the way, there's so many women I watched like
Speaker 3: early seasons, not on our casts, I'm talking, but like
Speaker 3: you see pictures of them from years ago, and you're like,
Speaker 3: what did you do to yourself?
Speaker 2: Like you went way overboard?
Speaker 3: And I'll give you one example. I don't care if
Speaker 3: I get called out for it, but like she's a
Speaker 3: beauty a woman. Take Larsa Pippen, right, you look at
Speaker 3: a picture of Larsa Pippin from when she was married
Speaker 3: to Scottie. She is so beautiful and natural looking and
Speaker 3: just like gorgeous, and now she's still gorgeous. She's a bombshell,
Speaker 3: but like she looks like a completely different person and
Speaker 3: like she didn't need to do any of.
Speaker 1: That, And so what is that? Because I mean, my
Speaker 1: Laura and I are talking about girls in college now,
Speaker 1: are you know, And they're at their most beautiful and voluptuous,
Speaker 1: and their skin is the tightest and most elastic it'll
Speaker 1: ever be. And they're already getting fillers in botox and
Speaker 1: this and that, you name it.
Speaker 2: You want to know what I think it is?
Speaker 3: Honestly, I think it's all these Instagram filters. Yeah, they
Speaker 3: make you think that people look a certain and we're
Speaker 3: going to talk about this on ours also, but like
Speaker 3: everybody's changing their pictures now.
Speaker 2: I mean, the social media is the devil. We know
Speaker 2: this really, right, I Mean there's everything changed with the
Speaker 2: advent of social media, for sure, and I think that
Speaker 2: just all roads lead back to that, right. Is that
Speaker 2: comparison that is so difficult? I think especially for young girls.
Speaker 2: I know it really was for my daughter. It is
Speaker 2: for my daughter, and she's thirteen.
Speaker 1: Speaking of housewives, how has that impacted your kids? You're
Speaker 1: both moms. You know, they see obviously a side of
Speaker 1: you at home, your mom or whatever. Then they see
Speaker 1: a site of you on housewives.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So again, my kids were older. I just now
Speaker 2: they're twenty one and twenty three, so whatever. They were
Speaker 2: twenty and twenty two, and we had more than one
Speaker 2: family meeting talking about what this was going to be. Like,
Speaker 2: you know, they're adults and they have no interest in
Speaker 2: being part of the show so way easier. And I
Speaker 2: don't know for them, I think they were both they
Speaker 2: were both nervous about it at the beginning, right, you
Speaker 2: don't want people saying bad things about your mom. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you don't want to know, which is sort of yeah,
Speaker 2: which is sort of inevitable.
Speaker 1: Right, right, it's the point of the show.
Speaker 2: Right, So I think they were nervous about it. But
Speaker 2: now I think that they're more proud of it than
Speaker 2: they expected to be. And I don't want them to
Speaker 2: be part of the show, right, and they don't really
Speaker 2: want to. So it's been way easier, I think, than
Speaker 2: it has for people with younger kids. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, but my journey on the show has
Speaker 3: been entirely different. So, like the first two years, my
Speaker 3: kids really they were young. My older ones turned ten
Speaker 3: on the now turning sixteen. My younger ones were seven,
Speaker 3: so they just basically did what I said.
Speaker 2: They thought it was.
Speaker 3: Kind of cool to see themselves on TV. And then
Speaker 3: my third year, my marriage nearly fell apart because of
Speaker 3: the show, and so the show was, you know, not
Speaker 3: a very happy topic in my home, and there was
Speaker 3: a lot of like crying. And then the fourth year
Speaker 3: the show saved my life. So it's been like I,
Speaker 3: I mean, it really did save my life. I don't
Speaker 3: think I would have been able to recover unless I
Speaker 3: had a public platform to do it on. So like
Speaker 3: in the one sense, there were times when it was horrible,
Speaker 3: and the next sense it's you know, it's everything.
Speaker 1: So when you say it saved your life, literally, yes,
Speaker 1: meaning literally it helps you with your eating disorder.
Speaker 3: And well, I would wake up, over the course of
Speaker 3: twenty years, every week and say today I'm going to
Speaker 3: do something about this, like this week i'll eat more,
Speaker 3: or this week I'll find someone to help me. And
Speaker 3: I never ever ever followed through. And when I realized
Speaker 3: that I needed to stop or else I was going
Speaker 3: to kill myself. I knew that if I did it
Speaker 3: on the show and I had and everyone holding me accountable,
Speaker 3: and I said it out loud and everyone was watching
Speaker 3: me to see if I were to recover or not,
Speaker 3: that I would not let myself fail because I would
Speaker 3: not show people who were watching with their own eating
Speaker 3: disorders or with children with eating disorders, that it's too
Speaker 3: hard to recover. Interesting and the show gave me that opportunity.
Speaker 1: Because I was going to ask, you know, because you
Speaker 1: see a lot of divorces, and I've talked to other housewives,
Speaker 1: you know, it never seems to help a relationship. And
Speaker 1: you know, my thought is, what is the poll to
Speaker 1: go back sometimes? You know, what is that draw to
Speaker 1: remain a housewife for so many years?
Speaker 3: That's so loaded because you go from I went from
Speaker 3: a mom who would just go to like the grocery
Speaker 3: store and school pickups. I was driving a mini van
Speaker 3: at the time, to an overnight celebrity. And it's very,
Speaker 3: very hard to go.
Speaker 1: Back because it's intoxicating, or because it it's.
Speaker 2: Just it's intoxicating.
Speaker 3: I mean I also had a lot of mental issues
Speaker 3: that went into it too, like the validation and finally
Speaker 3: being seen and finally being you know, I always used
Speaker 3: to say, like I used to go into a restaurant
Speaker 3: and the back room like who is famous? Like I
Speaker 3: would try to like creak my head and see who
Speaker 3: was back there, And I would ask who was back there?
Speaker 2: And now I'm the person back there? How am I
Speaker 2: going to? How am I going to go backwards? You
Speaker 2: know what I see with so many housewives, not just
Speaker 2: on our casts, but across the board, this desperation to
Speaker 2: stay on the show, and which is wild because you
Speaker 2: see what goes on and how hard it is and
Speaker 2: how it can affect people's lives positively and also so negatively.
Speaker 2: But it's sort of housewives at all costs, and it
Speaker 2: becomes I guess your identity. I'm really working hard with
Speaker 2: my therapist to make sure that does not happen to me.
Speaker 2: Right now, I feel like I maybe I'm kidding myself.
Speaker 2: I could go on if I got fired, I could
Speaker 2: move on with my life. But I do see so
Speaker 2: much of that, Like you know, that upset and that
Speaker 2: holding on to something that has been so so so difficult.
Speaker 2: Right your whole identity becomes I think about maybe just
Speaker 2: not being just a housewife but a celebrity.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was there a yah, and now I'm.
Speaker 1: Not, obviously jend these series were going on before you,
Speaker 1: So was that the allure? Did you see that and
Speaker 1: think that that status? I want to be seen as
Speaker 1: one of these ladies. I want to kind of have
Speaker 1: that power.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Growing up, I wanted to be an actress. And
Speaker 2: I graduated from college and I went to moved immediately
Speaker 2: to New York to go to the American Academy of
Speaker 2: dramatic arts. I was a horrible actress.
Speaker 1: Well, that's definitely a great path to become a housewife.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I always wanted to be on stage. Yeah,
Speaker 2: in some way, in some form. It's a different thing
Speaker 2: to sign up for the Housewives because you are opening
Speaker 2: up your life to so much scrutiny, I guess. And
Speaker 2: what are you trading it for? I guess fame and fortune.
Speaker 2: I don't know. But it's been a different experience than
Speaker 2: I predicted. It can be really really fun and thrilling
Speaker 2: and an adventure and also really hard and not just
Speaker 2: on not just during the filming of the show, but
Speaker 2: you know, the aftermath. So I think it sort of
Speaker 2: cuts both ways. My life is certainly changed, but not
Speaker 2: that intensity. I'm also a friend of a housewife, which
Speaker 2: is is different. Jackie is as well now, and it's not.
Speaker 3: It's not as taxing on your family, it's not as
Speaker 3: not evasive invasive on your life.
Speaker 1: Big I mean that poll. I mean, I know even
Speaker 1: you know, working on the Bacher Bacherette that allows producers
Speaker 1: to have a lot of power. It's like, look, Jen, Jackie, look,
Speaker 1: if you want to you really want to be prominent
Speaker 1: in this episode. You really want to be a housewife,
Speaker 1: you want to come back next season, you want to
Speaker 1: have your own story line. You know that there's all
Speaker 1: these little things, these these carrots they can dangle in
Speaker 1: front of you.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, yep. I really hope that if or what listen,
Speaker 2: Housewives doesn't go on forever. You know, we're not actors
Speaker 2: where this is a lifetime profession. I don't think. I mean,
Speaker 2: maybe for some women it will no for them.
Speaker 3: For me, you know, it's not going to go on
Speaker 3: forever anybody.
Speaker 2: So I feel like, you know, being that entangled in
Speaker 2: what all of this means and who you you have
Speaker 2: to be very very grounded. I I'm really working on
Speaker 2: that myself. I don't ever want to feel like I'm
Speaker 2: so desperate to stay on the show. It's really fun
Speaker 2: and exciting, but it's not everything.
Speaker 1: Well, I always said there was comfort in the fact
Speaker 1: that you know, you know, in this business, you're essentially
Speaker 1: going to be fired because every show wins. I don't care.
Speaker 1: You know, the Bats are ended up going for twenty years,
Speaker 1: which I didn't expect it to go. No one could
Speaker 1: ever or predict that. But you know at some point
Speaker 1: that ride's going to be over and so living that
Speaker 1: way is actually really good. You end up living usually
Speaker 1: below your means if you're smart, because you know, it's
Speaker 1: like next season is not promised to anybody. It's a
Speaker 1: It's always an interesting business because you know, I always said,
Speaker 1: it's probably better knowing that it's going to come to
Speaker 1: an end as opposed to you know, you just heard
Speaker 1: all the partners at one of the big accounting firms
Speaker 1: just got laid off. They l you know, you make
Speaker 1: it to partner. You think, Okay, I'm gonna be here
Speaker 1: for the next fifty years and then you're gone. I
Speaker 1: think having that rug pulled out from unto you is
Speaker 1: tougher than knowing someday you're not going to be a housewife. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so you build for that. You're both married, and so
Speaker 1: we'll do a little quick a little quick fire about marriage.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to put on my sexy readers. You've
Speaker 1: both been married for quite some time. Now, what's the
Speaker 1: biggest ick about your husband?
Speaker 3: You go first, Oh god, you take that one the
Speaker 3: bathroom six times a day.
Speaker 2: Explain that to me. I mean, you with your impacted
Speaker 2: by like, I don't get it. What's the biggest ick.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't. My husband's a nail bitter, and
Speaker 2: I don't know if it cks me out as much
Speaker 2: as it pisses me off. And I don't know why.
Speaker 2: When I see him biting his does something to me
Speaker 2: where I just want blood.
Speaker 1: So and and by the way, so unhealthy that the
Speaker 1: amount of germs onto your nails, that's that's horrifying.
Speaker 2: Listen. He would tell you that what x him out
Speaker 2: is the way that I have eggs on my feet.
Speaker 2: And I won't get into the details of that, but
Speaker 2: I'm way more icky than he is. Y. I eat
Speaker 2: chips in beds?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh no, Laura and I have had some fights
Speaker 1: about that. No crumbs in bed So out of the ick,
Speaker 1: let's go to sex life. How do you keep it alive?
Speaker 2: Such a funny question, and we're laughing because our last
Speaker 2: episode is about was it about, yes, whether or not
Speaker 2: our sex lives are in fact alive?
Speaker 1: Are they alive? Okay, well that's a better question.
Speaker 2: Are your sexual I make sure you know what. We
Speaker 2: make it a point.
Speaker 3: I make it a point to make sure that at
Speaker 3: least once a week.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But when you us back again, Chris, we will
Speaker 2: talk about how our sex lives are not you know,
Speaker 2: the way that it's portrayed sex on these shows. That's
Speaker 2: not what we necessarily relate to, right especially I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm fifty five and my husband's turning sixty one, so
Speaker 2: it's not the the priority.
Speaker 1: So that brings up an interesting debate Laura and I
Speaker 1: are having. So Jackie just said, I want to prioritize
Speaker 1: at least once a week. Jen, what is healthy once
Speaker 1: a week, twice a week, five times a.
Speaker 2: Week for us? I mean it's not it's what is
Speaker 2: healthy we have at the base of our relationship is
Speaker 2: this friendship, love, deep love and respect. So that is
Speaker 2: part of our sex is part of our relationship, but
Speaker 2: it's not the biggest part. So it depends. It depends
Speaker 2: on the month, it depends on the year, It depends
Speaker 2: on the holiday, depends on the holiday. Is it his
Speaker 2: birthday or not? At least a vander Pump used to
Speaker 2: say that.
Speaker 1: Right, But I don't birthdays. So it's at least twice
Speaker 1: a year.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but I don't know what's healthy physically. But
Speaker 2: for us, whatever it is, and it's not we're not
Speaker 2: hanging from the chandeliers. But it feels healthy emotionally, the
Speaker 2: little lot whatever that we I don't know, so I
Speaker 2: don't really know the answer if I feel content.
Speaker 1: Would you ever be open to a threesome with your husband?
Speaker 2: No, no, I agree, not because it's judgmental. No, I
Speaker 2: mean for me, it's not that.
Speaker 3: I just I would worry about the impact afterwards, Like
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want another woman there because I'd worry about
Speaker 3: someone else. I don't want to see someone else touching
Speaker 3: my hand. I don't think you would ever allow another man.
Speaker 1: Oh. No, last question, some housewives do not have a
Speaker 1: monogamous relationship with their partner. Could you ever do that?
Speaker 2: I don't think so, same reasons.
Speaker 3: I think that it would just introduce a lot of
Speaker 3: problems into our relationship.
Speaker 2: I've spoken about on the show and also in our podcast.
Speaker 2: But my husband and I were separated for over a year,
Speaker 2: and so there were there was infidelity, and so we've
Speaker 2: been down that road. I'd prefer not to go down
Speaker 2: that road again. I wouldn't recommend it. Having said that,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't necessarily take it back either. So I think
Speaker 2: that there is a path back. I'm infidelity, do I
Speaker 2: And I think that listen, whatever works like if you're
Speaker 2: remember the word polyamorous. That's the word, right, and you're
Speaker 2: happy you do you? Baby? I think it's fabulous news.
Speaker 1: Whatever floats your boat, Well, y'all floated my boat today.
Speaker 1: Jen Jackie is first of all, it's just so good
Speaker 1: to talk to you, to meet you. Congratulations. If you
Speaker 1: have not listened to their podcast, Two Jersey Jays, which
Speaker 1: is on the iHeart podcast network, you can find it
Speaker 1: wherever you find podcasts. It has been a huge success.
Speaker 1: And now I see why because y'all are so open,
Speaker 1: so honest, and you don't agree, which is wonderful. So
Speaker 1: I bet sometimes you do, but a lot of times
Speaker 1: you don't, and that's okay. Yeah, and you can still
Speaker 1: break bread together.
Speaker 2: Amen.
Speaker 3: She doesn't need bread anymore, but we'll break you bway.
Speaker 2: Yes I do. I finally do bread.
Speaker 1: Okay, we can't go back down that road.
Speaker 2: Podcast. Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 1: You're the best, Jen Jackie, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I'll take care you, bye bye bye.
Speaker 1: My thanks to Jackie and Jin for being a part
Speaker 1: of it, and congratulations on their podcast. They're doing good.
Speaker 1: I'm excited that the most dramatic podcast is a part
Speaker 1: of that as well and promoting the Two Jersey Jays,
Speaker 1: And I like continuing this conversation about the weight loss drugs.
Speaker 1: I find it fascinating and I think the more we
Speaker 1: dig into this, it's like scratching an edge. It just
Speaker 1: it goes deeper and deeper. It makes it worse and worse.
Speaker 1: And now I'm really enthralled with this. And it was
Speaker 1: one thing to hear, you know, to talk to a doctor.
Speaker 1: It's another thing to talk to someone who's on it.
Speaker 1: And why and why Jen's doing it is I think
Speaker 1: very interesting, and why Jackie's not doing it is very interesting.
Speaker 1: And I think the fact that you know you can
Speaker 1: have these conversations, respect why your neighbor might be doing it,
Speaker 1: respect why your other neighbor might not be doing it.
Speaker 1: What's good for you is not necessarily good for the
Speaker 1: next person. And so having your own opinions, asking those
Speaker 1: questions and having your own reasons and your own basis
Speaker 1: for doing things, I think is vital. So that's why
Speaker 1: I want to continue these conversations. I love having these conversations,
Speaker 1: if it's about ozembic or anything else in this world.
Speaker 1: Is being able to ask a question and here's something
Speaker 1: you may not love here's something you disagree with, and
Speaker 1: then just following it up with another question and continuing
Speaker 1: the conversation. We don't have to be just this way
Speaker 1: or just my way or the highway, even if you
Speaker 1: really believe it's dangerous or really believe it's not good.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't have all the answers all the time,
Speaker 1: So I love and appreciate Jen and Jackie for diving
Speaker 1: into it and hear about the Housewives stuff I think
Speaker 1: is interesting too. Obviously I have my look into reality TV,
Speaker 1: but that's different from everybody else's experience, so I enjoy
Speaker 1: that as well. So my best of them and my
Speaker 1: best to all of you. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being a part of this, and I will do it
Speaker 1: again next time because we have a lot more to
Speaker 1: talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: the most dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write
Speaker 1: us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk
Speaker 1: to you next time.