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Speaker 1: Hey, it's Andrea Gunning. Our season of weekly stories is

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Speaker 1: coming to an end, but don't worry. We'll be back

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Speaker 1: soon with more episodes. So if you have a story

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Speaker 1: of your own that you'd like to share on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: email us at Betrayal pod at gmail dot com. In

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Speaker 1: the meantime, we want to do something new and exciting.

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Speaker 1: This month, we're taking short creative essay submissions from listeners.

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Speaker 1: The theme is resilience in the face of a devastating betrayal.

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Speaker 1: We want to hear the story of how you healed

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Speaker 1: scars and all. Here's the catch. The limit is a

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Speaker 1: thousand words. If your story stands out, it might be

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Speaker 1: featured in a bonus episode. Please save your submission as

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Speaker 1: a PDF and email it to Betrayal pod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com. Okay, now onto the episode.

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Speaker 2: If he can lie about that, he can lie about anything.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he used his dead mother's name, he used

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Speaker 3: his dead father's name, he used I think his aunt,

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Speaker 3: he used my name.

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Speaker 2: All these people. It was absolutely crazy making.

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Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about

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Speaker 1: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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Speaker 1: change everything.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I've always craved drama, and I got it. I

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Speaker 2: got it.

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Speaker 1: That's Abby Ellen. She's an independent journalist where outlets like

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Speaker 1: The New York Times in Washington Post.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm in my fifties and I have been a

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Speaker 2: freelance writer since I'm like twenty two.

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Speaker 1: Storytelling comes naturally to her.

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Speaker 2: Even as a kid, I was interested in people's story

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Speaker 2: I was interested in gossip. I was interested in people's lives.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to know how things worked. And I

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Speaker 2: also was always interested in getting to the bottom of things.

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Speaker 1: To say, she's curious as an understatement. When she was

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Speaker 1: in elementary school, Abby was on a children's show called

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Speaker 1: Romper Room. It was popular in the nineteen seventies. On

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Speaker 1: the show, the host would hold up a magic mirror

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Speaker 1: and through it she would pretend to see straight into

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Speaker 1: living rooms across the country. She'd named dozens of children

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Speaker 1: who were watching the show. Kids at home thought she

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Speaker 1: was talking directly to them through the mirror. As a kid,

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Speaker 1: Abby knew the magic mirror was faked, and when she

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Speaker 1: was on the show, she was determined to figure.

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Speaker 2: Out how well they would put the kids in the

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Speaker 2: control room and you could see all of the monitors

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Speaker 2: and you could see what was happening, and I remember

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Speaker 2: pointing to that with the kid next to me. I

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Speaker 2: was like, check it out, like there's no magic, and

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Speaker 2: he was really upset. He was like, I don't want

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Speaker 2: to know that, you know, And I was like, see,

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Speaker 2: I got to the truth.

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Speaker 1: Fifty years later, she's still that same person.

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Speaker 2: I hate magic tricks. I hate going to magic shows.

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Speaker 2: I need to know how they do things.

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Speaker 1: That dogged curiosity has motivated Abby's work for decades. When

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Speaker 1: she first started her journalism career in New York City.

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Speaker 2: I could have gotten a job like in The Devil

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Speaker 2: War's Prada. I could have gotten a job as an

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Speaker 2: assistant to an editor. But I thought, what am I

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Speaker 2: going to learn about writing from picking up some of

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Speaker 2: these dry cleaning Nothing? What am I going to learn

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Speaker 2: about like from faxing their correspondence nothing. I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to do that.

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Speaker 1: Instead, she got her start writing for women's magazines. It

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Speaker 1: was the nineties when magazines still ruled the media landscape,

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Speaker 1: and Abby had to start at the bottom of the ladder.

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Speaker 2: The women's magazines had you do like quizzes, is he

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Speaker 2: a jerk? Are you a control freak? I mean those

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Speaker 2: kind of things. I didn't give a shit. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I hated that stuff, and I just got terrified that

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Speaker 2: I was going to get stuck doing that.

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Speaker 1: She wanted something more hard hitting, so she started cold

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Speaker 1: pitch stories to The New York Times, and she finally

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Speaker 1: got a story accepted. It was an expose on simulated

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Speaker 1: military boot camps for civilians, and.

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Speaker 2: I wrote a big story about that. It was a

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Speaker 2: full page of The New York Times. I framed it

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Speaker 2: and I thought, that's that never gonna happen again. Well,

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Speaker 2: the editor who I wrote that for called me up

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Speaker 2: one day and he said, we're starting a column.

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Speaker 1: He wanted Abby to write for it. So for the

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Speaker 1: next five years, she wrote a column about young people

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Speaker 1: and money for the Business section of the New York Times.

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Speaker 1: She was in her late twenties. The stars were aligning

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Speaker 1: for her career and she was building a life for herself.

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Speaker 2: My mother is really a super feminist and has always

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Speaker 2: been profoundly independent and has always been like, what women

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Speaker 2: need is their own money, no matter what, they all

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Speaker 2: need their own money, you know. So she wanted me

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Speaker 2: to always have my own space.

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Speaker 1: On her mother's advice, Abby bought her first apartment it

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Speaker 1: was a loft in New York City. She had everything

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Speaker 1: she wanted. Even dating came easily for Abby.

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Speaker 2: Oh God, men were everywhere, men were everywhere.

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Speaker 1: In her twenties, her relationships usually ended because he was

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Speaker 1: more into her and she was into him. I, you know,

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Speaker 1: had my boyfriend, then we broke up, and then I

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Speaker 1: had other boyfriends.

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Speaker 2: And I continued to work, and I continued to travel,

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Speaker 2: and I kind of never really wanted to get married,

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Speaker 2: per se, that wasn't my agenda. Didn't want to be

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Speaker 2: tethered to somebody all the time.

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Speaker 1: In her thirties, she dated more seriously, but none of

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Speaker 1: the guys were quite right.

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Speaker 2: One was a guy on met in Peru. He was

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Speaker 2: a furniture maker and he was great, but that didn't

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Speaker 2: work out. A couple guys in the theater, I mean

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Speaker 2: just different nice. I mean they were fine, they were

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Speaker 2: fine people, but I wanted something that mattered. I wanted

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Speaker 2: something that mattered.

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Speaker 1: Abby had traveled the world, reported for prestigious publications, and

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Speaker 1: made friends in every corner of the city, but there

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Speaker 1: was one thing she still hadn't experienced.

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Speaker 2: Again, I didn't care if I got married, but I

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Speaker 2: wanted to be manly in love.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to be madly in love. By the time

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Speaker 1: she was forty, she started looking for love in new places.

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Speaker 2: If you've been single little while, you know, sometimes you're

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Speaker 2: just like, oh God, maybe I should go out with

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Speaker 2: somebody who I never thought i'd be with, just because

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Speaker 2: maybe I'd been barking up the wrong tree all this time.

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Speaker 1: After a string of relationships with struggling artists, she thought

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Speaker 1: she'd try something more traditional. First, she went with the

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Speaker 1: conservative Wall Street type.

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Speaker 2: Then she thought, I'm Jewish. I was brought up Jewish.

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Speaker 2: I thought I've always dated non Jewish guys. Maybe I

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Speaker 2: need to be with somebody who's Jewish. Maybe that's what

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Speaker 2: I need.

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Speaker 1: On a lark, her friend recommended a psychic, apparently if

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Speaker 1: she had great insights on love.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, Carmela is psyching from younger, that's what she said.

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Speaker 2: I like.

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Speaker 1: But Carmela saw something in Abby's future, a.

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Speaker 2: Man, and she was like, you're going to meet somebody

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Speaker 2: you're gonna move. His first initial is gonna be RP,

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Speaker 2: B or D and alway, he's gonna wear a uniform.

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Speaker 2: And I said, I don't know anybody in uniform other

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Speaker 2: than the FedEx guy, and she was like, no, that's

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Speaker 2: not a FedEx guy.

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Speaker 1: Around the same time, Abby was working on a piece

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Speaker 1: for The Times.

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Speaker 2: I was working on an article for the New York

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Speaker 2: Times about detox diets and whether or not they had

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Speaker 2: any validity or whether they were just kind of bullshit.

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Speaker 2: And somebody suggested I call this guy who worked in

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Speaker 2: Beverly Hills, California, who was a doctor there. He had

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Speaker 2: written some articles or studies about detox diets.

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Speaker 1: This Beverly Hills doctor gave Abby a great quote for

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Speaker 1: her article. We're going to call him Richard.

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Speaker 2: I quoted him and we had a nice conversation and

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Speaker 2: that was the end of it.

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Speaker 1: A few months later she had to call Richard again

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Speaker 1: to fact check the article.

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Speaker 2: And I said, are you still in Beverly Hills And

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Speaker 2: he said, no, I'm in the Navy. I'm a Navy doc.

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Speaker 1: Richard had been a Navy seal in his twenties, then

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Speaker 1: left to go to medical school. After decades of private

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Speaker 1: medical practice, he rejoined the Navy to work on special projects.

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Speaker 2: He was working on opening up a hospital for kids

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Speaker 2: with cancer in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: At the time, Abby wanted a new beat. She wanted

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Speaker 1: to report on international relations.

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Speaker 2: I was looking to do something different to expand my career.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do international reporting, and even if possible,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do war correspondence.

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Speaker 1: Richard was a good source, someone who might have stories

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Speaker 1: and connections she would need.

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Speaker 2: I said, well, tell me, bet, you know, keeping posted

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Speaker 2: on how this goes, this is right up my alley,

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Speaker 2: and he did. He capped keeping me posted. He kept

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Speaker 2: telling me what was going on.

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Speaker 1: At first it was regular updates about his job in

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Speaker 1: the Middle East.

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Speaker 2: And then we began talking more and more.

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Speaker 1: They started writing to each other every day, and she

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Speaker 1: learned more about Richard's personal life.

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Speaker 2: Apparently he had been divorced since I met him. His

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Speaker 2: two kids lived in California, and he was Liddy and Jacksonville,

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Speaker 2: and he was going to move to Washington. And I thought, well,

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Speaker 2: isn't that ironic because I was going to move to

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Speaker 2: Washington too to go to grad school.

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Speaker 1: Abby had just been accepted to an international relations master's program.

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Speaker 1: It was in Washington, d C. Where Richard was headed next.

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Speaker 1: By this point, their conversations feered into flirtations. So when

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Speaker 1: they found out they were both moving to the same city.

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Speaker 2: It seemed almost you know where there's a word in

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Speaker 2: Hebrew beshert, which means meant to be, And I thought, okay,

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Speaker 2: this is meant to be.

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Speaker 1: Their flirtation expanded into late night phone calls and surprise deliveries.

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Speaker 2: And he called when he said he would, and he

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Speaker 2: sent flowers. And he wasn't like a suffer bring artists

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Speaker 2: and paint splattered jeans. You know, he was really a

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Speaker 2: good guy.

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Speaker 1: Richard was mature and accomplished. He was a doctor. Maybe

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Speaker 1: this was the guy she'd been waiting for.

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Speaker 2: I was forty two, so I wasn't a kid, and

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Speaker 2: he was fifty eight, so he wasn't a kid. But

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Speaker 2: it didn't matter because he was nice to me, and

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Speaker 2: he was good to me.

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Speaker 1: After months of talking, Have you emailed him a poem?

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Speaker 2: So I thought, all right, I can woo. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: send it to him.

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Speaker 1: She knew this poem was his favorite.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna read it. It's very short. This is just

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Speaker 2: to say by William Carlos Williams. I had eaten the

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Speaker 2: plums that were in the icebox in which you were

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Speaker 2: probably saving for breakfast. Forgive me. They were delicious, so sweet,

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Speaker 2: and so cold, and I sent it to him. He

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Speaker 2: wrote me back three words, I love you, and I thought,

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Speaker 2: all right, it's a little fast, but okay.

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Speaker 1: She'd only been talking to Richard for a few months,

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Speaker 1: but when she got his reply, she smiled. Richard was

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Speaker 1: scheduled to be in New York the following month. Abby

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Speaker 1: hadn't started school yet and was still in town, so

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Speaker 1: they decided to meet in person for the first time.

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Speaker 2: He said, I've got to be in New York to

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Speaker 2: give his talk at the eun So I'm going to

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Speaker 2: be wearing my outfit, my Navy uniform, and he said,

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Speaker 2: let's go somewhere celebratory.

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Speaker 1: He made a reservation for them at the Four Seasons restaurant.

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Speaker 1: It's now closed, but in the early two thousands it

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Speaker 1: was one of the most glamorous date spots in New York.

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Speaker 2: It was a very CNBC kind of place. There was

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Speaker 2: a giant pool in the middle of it. Then it

225
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Speaker 2: was just very expensive and swanky and ritzy, and it

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Speaker 2: was just kind of the place to be.

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Speaker 1: On the night of their date, Richard met her in

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Speaker 1: the lobby, wearing his white Navy officer uniform as he

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Speaker 1: walked towards her. She realized this was the man in uniform,

230
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Speaker 1: the one the psychic had foreseen. Richard even brought her

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Speaker 1: a gift.

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Speaker 2: He brings what is called a cover, but it's a

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Speaker 2: navy cap. You know, it's the hat I brought you on,

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Speaker 2: he said.

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Speaker 1: They walked into dinner hand in hand, Abby wearing his

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Speaker 1: white navy cap.

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Speaker 2: And at dinner, he was so funny and he was charming,

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Speaker 2: and he was good to me, and he was charismatic,

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Speaker 2: and you know, he kind of wound me. He was

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Speaker 2: wooing me, and I like that. It was after dating

241
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Speaker 2: all sorts of shit has it was nice to be

242
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Speaker 2: with somebody who, you know, seemed to be who they

243
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Speaker 2: said they were.

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Speaker 1: That was the beginning of Richard's regular visits to New

245
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Speaker 1: York to take Abby out on romantic dates.

246
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Speaker 2: He comes to visit for a weekend or maybe overnight.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he always greeted me with a big kiss,

248
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Speaker 2: and he'd tell me how beautiful I was.

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Speaker 1: When he met Abby's friends, he impressed them too.

250
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Speaker 2: He cared about people, He cared about the world. He

251
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Speaker 2: was always picking up tabs, he was always doing things

252
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Speaker 2: that made people really like him.

253
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Speaker 1: Richard had two kids by his first wife, and even

254
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Speaker 1: though he lived apart from them, he was still a

255
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Speaker 1: family man.

256
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Speaker 2: He was very close to his son, so that was

257
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Speaker 2: nice and daughter. He talked to his kid, his son

258
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Speaker 2: all the time.

259
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Speaker 1: And then there was his illustrious military career. He was

260
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Speaker 1: constantly traveling for work.

261
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Speaker 2: He always said that he had certain things that he

262
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Speaker 2: did that he wouldn't be able to tell me about,

263
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:40,559
Speaker 2: and then he would often go off on these sort

264
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Speaker 2: of secret missions and he couldn't tell me what he

265
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Speaker 2: was doing, and I was kind of intrigued by that.

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Speaker 1: Abby was the kid who needed to know how the

267
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Speaker 1: magic mirror worked, and now with Richard, she wanted to

268
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Speaker 1: know about his classified military projects.

269
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Speaker 2: It of me mad that I didn't know what he

270
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Speaker 2: was doing, and a friend of mine said, well, that's

271
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Speaker 2: obviously a lesson. You need to learn that you can't

272
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Speaker 2: know everything.

273
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Speaker 1: Her intrigue turned to concern when Richard began having horrible nightmares.

274
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Speaker 2: He would just have these screaming nightmares, and so he

275
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 2: had to sleep with the lights on and the TV on.

276
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Speaker 1: When she asked, he brushed it off. All he would

277
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Speaker 1: say is that he had bad memories, things from the

278
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Speaker 1: military that he couldn't talk about.

279
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Speaker 2: I thought badly, and I thought something must have happened,

280
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Speaker 2: but I didn't know. I didn't know what it was.

281
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Speaker 1: Before long, his career began bumping up against their relationship.

282
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Speaker 2: Anytime he broke any plan, which we began to do

283
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,880
Speaker 2: pretty regularly, it was it's a secret mission. I can't

284
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,040
Speaker 2: tell you anything more about it. That's it.

285
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Speaker 1: Abby nicknamed him the Commander. It was a joke at first,

286
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:59,480
Speaker 1: but it stuck because Richard couldn't seem to escape his career.

287
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Speaker 2: The commander told me that we were being followed by

288
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Speaker 2: the Secret Service.

289
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 1: This was jarring for Abby and she demanded a reason

290
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,480
Speaker 1: why they were being followed. To her surprise, the commander

291
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,960
Speaker 1: began revealing some details about his career.

292
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Speaker 2: He said that he had been a doctor at Guantanamo.

293
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Speaker 1: He had been recruited to be the head doctor for

294
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Speaker 1: prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. This was the mid two thousands,

295
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 1: at the height of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

296
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Speaker 1: The commander explained that there was intense infighting with personnel

297
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Speaker 1: at Guantanamo. It had to do with classified information that

298
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Speaker 1: wasn't being delivered up the chain. That's why he was

299
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,239
Speaker 1: being protected by men in black.

300
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 2: SUVs, and he said, when I was at Guantanamo, all

301
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,760
Speaker 2: these guys are after me. They hate me, and they

302
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,560
Speaker 2: threatened me and my family. So my loved ones are

303
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,040
Speaker 2: being followed by the Secret Service.

304
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,240
Speaker 1: Abby tried to play it down to act casual, but

305
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,440
Speaker 1: this was a big disclosure.

306
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,960
Speaker 2: And I remember I said to him, well, you know,

307
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 2: next time, why don't you ask them if they can

308
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,880
Speaker 2: give me a ride so I don't have to call taxis.

309
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Speaker 2: I was just like, this is absurd.

310
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Speaker 1: She wasn't even sure if she believed his story about

311
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:22,680
Speaker 1: the Secret Service. But then one day his son called

312
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Speaker 1: from California.

313
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Speaker 2: And there was a car outside and said, Dad, is

314
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,280
Speaker 2: that your guys? Why are they outside of the house.

315
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Speaker 2: So I remember, I thought something really must have happened.

316
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Speaker 1: Now Abby needed answers. What had really happened at Guantanamo.

317
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Speaker 2: I need to know everything.

318
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Speaker 1: Eventually, Richard confided in her.

319
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Speaker 2: And he said that one of his patients was a

320
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:51,360
Speaker 2: very high level terrorist and I said who, and he

321
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:56,800
Speaker 2: said Osama bin Laden And I said that's insane, and

322
00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,760
Speaker 2: he said no, it's not. And he began to list

323
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,840
Speaker 2: all the physical problems that have bin Laden had.

324
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Speaker 1: This was two thousand and eight at the time, the

325
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,800
Speaker 1: military claim to be actively searching for bin Laden, so

326
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Speaker 1: him being held at Guantanamo just didn't make sense.

327
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Speaker 2: And I said to him, that is a stupid thing

328
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Speaker 2: sid to tell a person. I said, that's also not

329
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,360
Speaker 2: possible because the president, it was Bush at the time,

330
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,000
Speaker 2: that he would never let this happen without getting it

331
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Speaker 2: out because it was a big deal and you know,

332
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,960
Speaker 2: it would have helped Republicans, so he would never have

333
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,199
Speaker 2: been quite about that if he knew where bin Laden was.

334
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:44,160
Speaker 2: And he said, no, the President doesn't know. I said,

335
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Speaker 2: that's impossible. He said, there's a lot of things that

336
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:52,680
Speaker 2: they don't know. And I remember thinking, Okay, this is insane,

337
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,440
Speaker 2: but maybe here's a story here.

338
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,840
Speaker 1: Abby's new boyfriend, Richard, made some pretty surprising claims, biggest

339
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,760
Speaker 1: of all that Asama bin Laden was being held at

340
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 1: Guantanamo and that he had treated bin Laden for medical issues.

341
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,399
Speaker 1: This was the early two thousands and bin Laden was

342
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 1: one of the biggest fugitives on the planet, so Richard's

343
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,439
Speaker 1: story was hard to believe. But Abby knew for a

344
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,560
Speaker 1: fact that the commander worked in the Navy with a

345
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 1: very high security clearance. At that she'd met some of

346
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 1: his colleagues, so, like a good journalist, she wanted to

347
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,240
Speaker 1: verify the commander's claim.

348
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,080
Speaker 2: I was trying to do my own checkups because I

349
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:52,880
Speaker 2: was feeling crazy and I couldn't call up the CIA

350
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,240
Speaker 2: and say, hey, do you have this guy on your payroll?

351
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't do that.

352
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,919
Speaker 1: So she started asking around using bag details.

353
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 2: My brother in law said that doesn't make sense because

354
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 2: he was in the Navy, and he said he wouldn't

355
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 2: tell you about that. I had another friend who said

356
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,199
Speaker 2: the same thing. They're not supposed to tell you.

357
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,639
Speaker 1: She doubted the story, but wasn't prepared to write it

358
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,159
Speaker 1: off entirely. Even if there was a remote possibility it

359
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 1: could be true, it would be the biggest story in

360
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,479
Speaker 1: the world, and as someone who wanted to be a

361
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:27,440
Speaker 1: war reporter, that was undeniably enticing. She hit a dead

362
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,399
Speaker 1: end trying to fact check the bin Laden story, so

363
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,879
Speaker 1: instead she decided to fact check Richard. She started with

364
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,399
Speaker 1: one time when he said.

365
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 2: That he had a vault full of medals for operations

366
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 2: that didn't really exist. They were unofficial, you know, like

367
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 2: homelandy kind of things that you're not supposed to know about.

368
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,440
Speaker 1: Abby asked her new professors. If this could be true, I.

369
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 2: Would ask my teachers, you know, is that possible? They said, yeah,

370
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:55,719
Speaker 2: absolutely it is.

371
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 1: If that checked out, Richard's other classified projects could exist

372
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,159
Speaker 1: as well. Abby realized she couldn't fact check the bin

373
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 1: Laden story, and after Richard shared that he never talked

374
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:14,119
Speaker 1: about it again. He wanted a relationship separate from work.

375
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 1: After all, the rest of his life was pretty tame.

376
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 2: I met his family, I met his son, I met

377
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 2: his brother, met his aunt, I met some friends, I

378
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 2: met everybody, you know, so it just seems kind of normal.

379
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 1: And he met her family. Abby introduced him to her mom.

380
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:37,879
Speaker 2: He was a Jewish doctor, what's not to like.

381
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 1: As their lives began to merge, Abby was ready to

382
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,360
Speaker 1: bring up a big topic of her own.

383
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,479
Speaker 2: I wanted to adopt, and I had said to him

384
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 2: at some point, listen, I'm gonna want a kid.

385
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:50,880
Speaker 1: When she told Richard this.

386
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 2: Basically he was willing to do it. He said, I

387
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 2: love you, I'm in love with you. I'll do anything

388
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 2: you want. I'm gonna ask you to marry me, So

389
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 2: whatever makes you happy makes me happy.

390
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: That conversation brought their relationship to a new level. It

391
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: was like an unspoken marriage proposal.

392
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,920
Speaker 2: I'm forty two, he's fifty eight. We're not kids anymore.

393
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,439
Speaker 2: And we would discuss that. He said, you know, his

394
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 2: father always said when you know, you're no, and I've

395
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 2: heard that before. So then he began he would visit

396
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 2: me in New York and he would come and he

397
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,439
Speaker 2: would say, oh, I just went to Debiers and I

398
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,119
Speaker 2: was looking. I was looking at rings there and I thought, okay, great,

399
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 2: that's cool. But one day he says to me, you know, Abby,

400
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 2: I'm really upset. I can't afford a thirty thousand dollars ring.

401
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 2: Forty thousand dollars ring. You know. I said, I don't

402
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 2: need a forty thousand dollars ring, which is true. I didn't.

403
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 1: After six months together, Richard officially proposed. She said, yes,

404
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: it's true. The ring was nothing extravagant, but they both

405
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: knew they wanted to beat again. And then, keeping with

406
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 1: their low key attitude, Abby began planning for a small

407
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 1: wedding maybe the next year. They weren't in a rush.

408
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 2: I had never really expected to get married. That wasn't

409
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 2: my goal, so it was very odd buying a dress.

410
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 2: I decided I would just do something very small, like

411
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 2: a dinner or something, just something chill.

412
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 1: They made plans to move in together in Washington, d C.

413
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,479
Speaker 2: Eventually we found a place at the Watergate, which you know,

414
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 2: was obviously very famous.

415
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: The apartment was being paid for by the Navy. But

416
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 1: even still, Abby didn't like the Watergate or DC.

417
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: It was just sort of bleak and the Watergate was empty,

418
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 2: and I didn't find Washington to be an especially hospitable town.

419
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: It didn't help that the commander was always traveling for work.

420
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 2: Sometimes go in Afghanistan, sometimes going to Iraq. Sometimes he's

421
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 2: doing all these things that I can't about. I'll tell

422
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 2: you when there's a secure line, is what he would say.

423
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: And when he came home, he struggled to keep his

424
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: eyes open.

425
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,719
Speaker 2: He's a drag, like falling asleep early. He'll fall asleep

426
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 2: at dinner. We're at dinner at like six o'clock and

427
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 2: he's at the table like falling asleep.

428
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: She chalked it up to him being a bit older

429
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: and traveling so much for work, but Abby still had

430
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: her mindset on the future.

431
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 2: Well, I had put down money to adopt by myself,

432
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 2: so I was all going to do that.

433
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: As time went on. Richard wasn't so into the idea.

434
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 2: Anytime he talked about adoption, he always would say, you know,

435
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 2: I'll do it if that's what you really want to do.

436
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 2: But a lot of those kids really have problems. And

437
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 2: I thought that was a really callous thing to say.

438
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 2: I thought that was awful because I know a lot

439
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,959
Speaker 2: of kids who were not adopted who had problems.

440
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: He was changing. He wasn't the accommodating and doting man

441
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: she'd met. That guy was rarely around.

442
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: And one day I was talking about something about getting

443
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 2: married and we didn't even have a date, but he

444
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 2: started breaking down. He's like, I'm so overwhelmed. We have

445
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 2: to push the wedding back.

446
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: Maybe he was stressed out with work, or maybe he

447
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: was having cold feet. Shortly after this conversation, Abby confided

448
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: in her.

449
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 2: Mom and I told her about the bin laden thing,

450
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 2: and she said, something's not right there. Abby. She said,

451
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 2: that doesn't make sense, I said, and I got mad

452
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: at her. I said, why isn't it possible that there

453
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: are things that you don't know that we don't know

454
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 2: and we don't know the answer yet. And I got

455
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 2: so mad at her. I was like, you're so suspicious.

456
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: Abby was defensive in the moment, but her mom's suspicion

457
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: rubbed off on her.

458
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 2: So then I kind of went back and would ask

459
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 2: him questions, you know, more targeted, and he would get

460
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 2: mad at me.

461
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 1: One night, at dinner with Abby's parents, the commander made

462
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: a big show of complimenting a meal.

463
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 2: We're at a restaurant and he raves about the Brussels sprouts. Right,

464
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: these are the best Brussels sprouts ever. Okay, my parents,

465
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: that's nice. They didn't make it, they didn't care.

466
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: But as soon as they were alone, he told Abby

467
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: the exact opposite.

468
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 2: And he said, that's I think the worst meal I've

469
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 2: ever eaten. And I just thought to myself, what I said,

470
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: Why did you lie? Why did you lie? They didn't care,

471
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 2: he said, I wanted it to make them feel good.

472
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 2: It just was too discordant. You can't verify the CIA,

473
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: you can't verify navy seal, you can't do that. But

474
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 2: that was something tangible that I could verify, and I

475
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: just thought, I can't do this anymore. I just can't.

476
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 2: I can't do this. This is insane. If he can

477
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 2: lie about that, he can lie about anything that small.

478
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: Lie about the Brussels sprouts broke something inside of Abby.

479
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: It was proof that he felt the need to compulsively lie.

480
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: She was disgusted with him, but she wasn't prepared to

481
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: call off the wedding. That was until a few weeks later.

482
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 2: It was Christmas and we were spending it with his

483
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 2: brother and sister in law in their big house in Georgetown,

484
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: and his son and daughter were there, and I overheard

485
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 2: the son saying, what's that ring on Abby's finger? Is

486
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: that from you? And I didn't hear the response, but

487
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 2: I remember thinking to myself, this kid doesn't know that

488
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: we're getting married. The son had no idea that he

489
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: had proposed to me.

490
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: Richard had told Abby that his kids do and that

491
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: they were happy about it.

492
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 2: The commander told me that when he told his son

493
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 2: that he had proposed to me, his son said, well,

494
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 2: what took you so long?

495
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: And now she had proved of a very consequential lie.

496
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: You're lying to me and I can't there's something I'm done.

497
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: I'm out of here.

498
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: That night, she called off the engagement, and the timing

499
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: turned out to be pretty convenient.

500
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: About two weeks later, he came over and he said, listen.

501
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: The Navy, who was apparently paying for the apartment, needs

502
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: the apartment, and they're shipping me out somewhere else. I'm

503
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 2: leaving Washington, so we have to pack up everything and

504
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 2: get out.

505
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: So Abby packed up and moved back to New York.

506
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 2: And I didn't know what I was going to do

507
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: because I again was going to school. I ended up

508
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: commuting to Washington from New York City and I finished

509
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 2: my degree.

510
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: In the wake of the breakup, Abby second guest yourself.

511
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 2: I felt bad. I felt maybe I overreacted. You know,

512
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 2: every time I would interrogate him, he'd be like, well,

513
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: that's why you're single, because you always question and you

514
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 2: don't trust, and you interrogate. That's why. That's why you've

515
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 2: been singles all this time. And I thought, well, maybe

516
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: that's right, you know, maybe that's right.

517
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: A few months after the breakup, she was in DC

518
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: for school and one night she was in a cab

519
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 1: driving by the watergate and the.

520
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: Light was still was on in the apartment. And I

521
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 2: called him. I said, are you even the apartment? He said,

522
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 2: you know, it was a comedy bearers. I got everything

523
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 2: moved and everything was in storage, and everything was great.

524
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: And I was ready to be relocated, and then the

525
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: Navy said, no, you got to move back into the apartment.

526
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: You got to stay in Washington. We're keeping you here.

527
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 2: So remember I'm Nancy Drue. I said, well, I need

528
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: to pick up my cookbooks that are in the apartment.

529
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 2: I left the cookbooks, so she told.

530
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: The cab driver to pull over. She wanted to investigate.

531
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: I didn't have a key, and I said to the doorman,

532
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 2: I'd like to go up to the apartment, and the

533
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: doorman said, you're not allowed up. I have a note.

534
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: Abby Allen is not allowed up. So I called the commander.

535
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,239
Speaker 2: I said, what's up with that? Like, why was I

536
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: there was specifically a note. Hanny said, oh, somebody was

537
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: assaulted in the building, so they're being really careful about

538
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: who they let in. I said, I don't believe you.

539
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: She told Richard she needed to get a few things

540
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: she left behind, so we let her out.

541
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: I looked in the house and the cookbooks were exactly

542
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: where I had left them.

543
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: It wasn't just the cookbooks.

544
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: His baseball glove was exactly where I had been when

545
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: I left, and there was a sliver of soap in

546
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 2: exactly the same place, the same sliver that had been

547
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: there when I left. And I looked at him and

548
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 2: I said, you didn't move, and he said, oh, yes,

549
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: I did.

550
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: There was no way he moved out of the apartment

551
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: and put a tiny, used up sliver of soap back

552
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: in the exact same place, stuck to the same bath tile.

553
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 2: And I thought, you're nuts, and that was it. That

554
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: was it. I didn't really talk to him after that.

555
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: She knew he was a liar, but how big of

556
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: a liar She wouldn't find out for another year and

557
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: a half.

558
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: And then I got a phone call. It's a two

559
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: two area code. The only two two area code I

560
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: knew was the Commanders, So I thought, okay, I don't

561
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: know why he's calling.

562
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 4: And I picked it up and it was Special Agent

563
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 4: Dan Ryan with NCIS.

564
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: Abby hadn't talked to Richard in over a year. When

565
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: a DC number cold called her, she assumed it was him,

566
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: but to her surprise, it was a special agent with NCIS,

567
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: the Naval Criminal Investigative Service.

568
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 2: And he says, there's a doctor who's writing prescriptions for

569
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 2: narcotics for vicodin, and your name is one of the

570
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 2: names he's been using.

571
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: Abby's name had shown up on a list of falsified

572
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: narcotics prescriptions, scripts written by a Navy doctor named Richard.

573
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: I said what, and he said, yeah, he's been writing

574
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 2: prescriptions for drugs. Do you know him? You have a prescription?

575
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: And I said no, I know him, and I did

576
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: not have a prescription for vicodin. You know, I prefer valuume.

577
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: I mean.

578
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: The phone call didn't upset Abby. In fact, she was

579
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: excited because maybe she was finally going to get answers

580
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: about Richard.

581
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: I thought, maybe this is the culmination. Everything's kind of

582
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: coming to a head. CIA and Navy Seal and all that.

583
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 2: You know, everything is just coming together.

584
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: It turned out Richard wasn't working with Special Forces on

585
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: secret missions. He was actually a Navy doctor working at

586
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: the Pentagon. But while he was there.

587
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: People he worked at the Pentagon he had used their

588
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 2: names to forge drugs.

589
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: He forged hundreds of opioid prescriptions using the names of

590
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: his coworkers and his family.

591
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 3: He used his dead mother's name, he used his dead

592
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 3: father's name, he used I think his aunt, he used

593
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 3: my name.

594
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: All these people.

595
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: He'd been caught filling scripts at the Pentagon's pharmacy. It

596
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: was a brazen scheme. What was he doing with all

597
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: those painkillers?

598
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: I asked if he was selling and Dan Ryan said no,

599
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: we have no evidence of that.

600
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: Presumably Richard was taking the pills himself, at least that's

601
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: what he later claimed to a judge. Abby thought back

602
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: to dinners with the Commander, the ones where he was

603
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: falling asleep at the table. In hindsight, that was her

604
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: only clue that Richard could have been taking opioids.

605
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 2: So why kicked into journalist's mode. She tracked down.

606
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: Richard's ex wife and gave her a call. His ex

607
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: wife knew Richard had a girl friend, but it wasn't Abby.

608
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: She was one who told me about the girlfriend. Abby

609
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: would call one woman who told her about another. It

610
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: was like a phone tree of Richard's ex girlfriends. That's

611
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: how she found a woman who'd been engaged to Richard

612
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: at the same time Abby started dating him.

613
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 5: And her name was Christine. She was a doctor, She

614
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 5: was awesome, and he proposed to her right around the

615
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 5: time he started beginning corresponding with me.

616
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 2: And he one day said to her, I've got to

617
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: go off on a secret mission. I'll call you when

618
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: I come back, and he never came back.

619
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: Christine never knew why Richard disappeared. Abby had the other

620
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: half of the story.

621
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: And the secret mission was Operation Abby.

622
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: But Richard's romantic con took an even darker turn. The

623
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: last woman he'd been seeing was named Gail. Richard had

624
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: been her college boyfriend. When Gail was diagnosed with breast

625
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: cancer in her sixties, he reappeared.

626
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: She was getting divorced. He had reached out to her,

627
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 2: and you know, and I never stopped loving you after

628
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: thirty years, blah blah blah, all this stuff.

629
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: He swept Gail off her feet. He even claimed he

630
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: could help her beat cancer. After all, he was a doctor.

631
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 2: He was helping manage her cancer, but she was one

632
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: of the names he was using to get narcotics as well.

633
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: Gail was the last woman Richard kahned before he got caught.

634
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: And then I called up Gail, who was basically was

635
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 2: dying at the time. She had cancer. She had breast cancer.

636
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: When NCIS informed Gail about the fraudulent prescriptions in her name,

637
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: she was so angry she flipped on Richard immediately.

638
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: She wore a wire and he admitted that he had

639
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 2: been forging signatures and everything he admitted to her, and

640
00:34:58,440 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 2: she got them in trouble.

641
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: Gail passed away shortly after that. Her story is the

642
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 1: one Abby still thinks about. If there is a hero here,

643
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: she says, it's Gail. Richard ultimately pled guilty to two

644
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: felony charges of prescription fraud. In his sentencing hearing, he

645
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: told a judge that he'd become addicted while he struggled

646
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: to cope with his girlfriend's terminal cancer diagnosis. Between that

647
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: and his history of military service, the judge went easy

648
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: on him.

649
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 2: He was sentenced to I think two years in one day.

650
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: After Abby found out about Richard's crimes, she began parsing

651
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: out every lie he ever told her. Ben Lauden, Richard

652
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: never treated him at Guantanamo. The Secret Service wasn't following

653
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 1: him or his kids. He had never been a Navy

654
00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:00,720
Speaker 1: seal because Abby found a Navy seal impersonation expert military

655
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: records and confirmed it and those screaming nightmares Richard had,

656
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: while the seal expert said fake nightmares are a common

657
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: feature of con artists like Richard. Abby had been duped.

658
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 2: After this happened, I was like, now I got a book.

659
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 2: Thank you.

660
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: She titled her book Duped. Once she got started on it,

661
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: she realized it was about much more than just her

662
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: own experience. It was about the experience of being lied to.

663
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 2: It's not a straight out memoir, It is really an investigation.

664
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 2: We decided to focus on the victims. What is it

665
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 2: like to be deceived? What is it like to be duped?

666
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 2: What is it like to not have all the facts

667
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 2: and that the life you've been living is not the

668
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 2: life you thought you were living. So that was my book.

669
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: Abby never blamed herself for believing Richard's lies.

670
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 2: You know what's the worst thing you did. The worst

671
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: thing is you dressed somebody. And we have to trust.

672
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 2: Society works on trust. You have to stop at the

673
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 2: red light, you have to stop at the stop light.

674
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: You have to trust that the pilot knows how to

675
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 2: fly the plank. You have to trust that that cop

676
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 2: is really a cop. You have to and if you don't,

677
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 2: society will fall apart.

678
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: Working on her book, she researched experts on deception like

679
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: doctor Jennifer Fried who coined the term betrayal blindness.

680
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 2: And it was just about you know how when children

681
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: are being abused by their caretakers. They don't see it

682
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 2: because they need that caretaker. They can't believe that that

683
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 2: person is working against them. And it's the same thing

684
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 2: in any relationship, whether it's somebody you're a business colleague

685
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: or your romantic partner. You don't want to believe that

686
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: someone's going to do this to you. You can't believe it,

687
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 2: and it's to your benefit not to see it because

688
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: of your life that you built up.

689
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: And she even explored this stigma around being deceived, that

690
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: feeling of self blame and stupidity and lied to.

691
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 2: So then I found this study that said, actually, smarter

692
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 2: people are more susceptible to being duped because they don't

693
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 2: think it would happen to them. So actually people who've

694
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 2: been duped are smarter. They tend to be smarter, specifically

695
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: because of fatal overconfidence. It would never happen to me.

696
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: Abby turned Richard's betrayal into a story, a story for

697
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: herself and for the world.

698
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: I never felt ashamed, I never felt embarrassed. To me,

699
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: it was a story and it was a great story.

700
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 1: Instead of covering international relations today she mostly reports on fraud.

701
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 2: I think it's fair to say that it changed the

702
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 2: trajectory of my career. That began reporting on different things.

703
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: I became somewhat of an expert on fraud. I guess

704
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 2: read a book about white color fraud, and I did

705
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: a podcast which led into a documentary that I did

706
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: with The New York Times called to Live in Die, Alabama.

707
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: So it did change my.

708
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: Life, and thanks to her experience with Richard, she's learned

709
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: a few things about herself.

710
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 2: I always knew I was resilient. I always knew I

711
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 2: was strong, but I don't know that I realized just

712
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 2: how capable I was. That's nice to know.

713
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: We end all of our episodes with the same question,

714
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 1: why are you sharing your story?

715
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: I think it's very important for people to know that

716
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: they're not alone and that this happens to other people.

717
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 2: It's very easy for it to happen now with technology.

718
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: You're not a terrible person, You're not a stupid person.

719
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,959
Speaker 2: Lots of people are in this situation and don't feel

720
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 2: like an idiot, because, again, what's the worst thing you did?

721
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: You trusted, that's okay.

722
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 6: On the next episode of Betrayal, I said, well, I'm

723
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 6: not a suspicious person, and he said, maybe you should

724
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 6: be more suspicious, you should ask me questions.

725
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 7: At this point, my heart dropped and I feel like

726
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 7: I'm going to vomit. The betrayal felt so intentional and

727
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 7: possibly like it was a long time coming.

728
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team,

729
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: email us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal

730
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 1: Pod at gmail dot com, and be sure to follow

731
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. We're grateful for your support.

732
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: One way to show support is by subscribing to our

733
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: show on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to rate and

734
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A

735
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is

736
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment

737
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 1: Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive

738
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced

739
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 1: by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Leboard,

740
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristin Mercury

741
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: and Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and

742
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: Jessica kriinchech audio editing and mixing by Matt del Vecchio,

743
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: additional editing support from Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by

744
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: Oliver Bains. Music library provided by mybe of Music and

745
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

746
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: or wherever you've got your podcasts