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Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring conversations with

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Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton,

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Speaker 1: business editor for Variety Today. My guest in Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: is Chris Abrego, CEO of endemol Shine North America and

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Speaker 1: chairman of Endemol Shine America's. Chris oversees the company's busy

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Speaker 1: US arm that is based in Los Angeles and home

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Speaker 1: to such series as Big Brother, Master, Chef, Dealer, No Deal,

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Speaker 1: and The Biggest Loser, just to name a few. A

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Speaker 1: few years ago, Chris realized there was a burgeoning opportunity

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Speaker 1: to sell shows in Mexico. That set him on a

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Speaker 1: path to change the purview of his programming team to

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Speaker 1: incorporate Spanish language content development right alongside their work on

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Speaker 1: English language projects. Many staffers even took Spanish classes to

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Speaker 1: get up to speed. In our interview, Abrego discusses his

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Speaker 1: background as a producer Endamal Shine bought his fifty one

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Speaker 1: Minds production banner in two thousand and eight, and how

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Speaker 1: that background has helped him manage through peak TV times.

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Speaker 1: One topic Chris was not able to address at the

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Speaker 1: time we spoke was the acquisition of endemol Shine by

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Speaker 1: France's Banajet Group, as that deal has not formally closed,

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Speaker 1: but he has a lot of interesting things to say

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Speaker 1: about the way to think about a truly global television economy.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen. You have approached the Spanish language in

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Speaker 1: the Latin American market in a different way than other

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Speaker 1: US based majors in terms of integrating it into into

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Speaker 1: all of your business and just looking at it as

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Speaker 1: one content business, one development business. Let's talk though, about

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Speaker 1: the origins of endemal Shine Boomdog and how how it

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Speaker 1: was that you came to have such a big operation

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Speaker 1: down in Mexican. You're absolutely correct, and thank you for

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Speaker 1: acknowledging that. And it's probably for a couple of reasons

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Speaker 1: that we've I've looked it different, uh, And the first

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Speaker 1: probably because it comes from a self interest, in a

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Speaker 1: personal kind of passion to want to be in that space,

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Speaker 1: and obviously being Latino and growing up in a bilingual

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Speaker 1: household and being first generation my parents are from Mexico,

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Speaker 1: and so growing up in a household where I actually

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Speaker 1: you know, lived the experience of seeing being in one

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Speaker 1: room depending on who I was spending time with At

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Speaker 1: the time of the house, if I was spending time

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Speaker 1: watching television with my dad, we were watching uh us

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Speaker 1: you know television of The Fall, Guy, Hill Street, Blues,

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Speaker 1: Different Strokes or whatever it might be. That's incredible, all

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Speaker 1: these great shows speaks to universal language six million dollar

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Speaker 1: of course UM. And then of course spending time with

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Speaker 1: my mom, who in the room would have on a

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Speaker 1: Spanish television would be all the traditional novae least we

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Speaker 1: would be on UM. So it was something that was

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Speaker 1: very organic to me UM. And when I it took

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Speaker 1: this role UM as the CEO of Animo UM and

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Speaker 1: then soon an Animal Shine. It was something that was

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Speaker 1: a priority to me six years ago, was to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to do content in Spanish. But I just

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Speaker 1: didn't want to just jump into it. We really wanted

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Speaker 1: to look at the landscape and knowing of what things

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Speaker 1: were happening and where things were headed. And so really

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Speaker 1: with with myself and Ben Sammick and Paul Jennings, we

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Speaker 1: really wanted to look at it and see how we

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Speaker 1: would take the approach UH and look at how other

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Speaker 1: companies said as you mentioned, had how they had taken

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Speaker 1: our approach to being in Latin America, specifically in Mexico,

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Speaker 1: and we realized that things were changing. You know, the

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Speaker 1: streaming business is obviously taken off, and the direct consumer

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Speaker 1: was was getting was something becoming more of a O

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Speaker 1: T T B O D. All these things were becoming

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Speaker 1: really important. Therefore, really seeing that the premium content was key.

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Speaker 1: So we knew had to take a different approach in

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Speaker 1: that sense, and so one of the things we did

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Speaker 1: was after getting to know other players in Mexico and

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Speaker 1: visiting with networks and distribution platforms, when we really started

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Speaker 1: to see that if we were going to do this,

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Speaker 1: the one way to do it was to truly treat

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Speaker 1: it exactly how we were doing our business here in

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Speaker 1: North America, which was premium content and find the best people.

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Speaker 1: And so we went we sought out to do that.

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Speaker 1: And the person we kind of first came across, what

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Speaker 1: was the guy named Alejandro Rinkon who was running boom Dog.

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Speaker 1: And that was the kind of gensis of meeting him

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Speaker 1: in Mexico City. And boom Dog was an existing production

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Speaker 1: company that had was starting to get real traction with

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Speaker 1: some very interesting shows. Correct. So A Leandro had a small,

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Speaker 1: real small business based in Mexico City. Um, and he

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Speaker 1: was already The thing that kind of flagged us to

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Speaker 1: him was he was doing already a lot of US formats,

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Speaker 1: so he was doing Ease, Fashion emergency, but in Spanish,

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Speaker 1: you know, he was had uh MD, which is a

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Speaker 1: community basically it's Mexican. John Oliver for HBO. HBO has

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Speaker 1: talked about that show made a real, real, real bill

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Speaker 1: weather for them about what is possible correct in other markets. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so Leandro already had this kind of gnat for

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Speaker 1: premium storytelling and production value. Um. And so one of

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Speaker 1: the things we started to do was figure out to

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Speaker 1: work together on a show by show basis and we

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Speaker 1: one of the first things we really did was Big

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Speaker 1: was we did granted Amano Big Brother for Telemundo and

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Speaker 1: obviously Big Brother is one of our flagship brands for

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Speaker 1: the group made an over you know, countries uh twenty

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Speaker 1: years in the making, so it came with a lot

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Speaker 1: of prestige. But in handing it to Alejandro, he made

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Speaker 1: he did exactly what all the other territories have done

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Speaker 1: and making this really high end premium cont that he

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Speaker 1: built the entire Big Brother house on the sound stage

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Speaker 1: where they were living over the production hounceers were and

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Speaker 1: a lot of the equipment came from the US, and

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Speaker 1: we did it live from Mexico into the US and

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Speaker 1: it was just a huge success and it was a

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Speaker 1: really good experience. But more so for me, I get

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Speaker 1: it showed me the level of production value and producing

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Speaker 1: skill set that Alejandro and his team had and that

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Speaker 1: was and that led to you acquiring boom So we

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Speaker 1: really gave us the confidence to look at it. By

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Speaker 1: the way, as the environment and the market was shifting

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Speaker 1: and these and you saw Netflix starting to spend some

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Speaker 1: time down there and other streamers and the audience because

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Speaker 1: the audience has always been there in that market, it's

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Speaker 1: not that it hasn't existed, but the year they're real

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Speaker 1: appetite for premium and contemporary storylines was really starting to

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Speaker 1: show itself and there wasn't being serviced and but so

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Speaker 1: we knew that we really wanted to make that investment.

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Speaker 1: So that's what we did when we acquired a boom

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Speaker 1: Dog and really solidified our our partnership which is now

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Speaker 1: ben I think over three years. And it's interesting because

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Speaker 1: your approach really kind of demonstrated that you know, if

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Speaker 1: you are producing Spanish language content. You can. You can

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Speaker 1: license it in the US to Spanish language outlets, you

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Speaker 1: can license it around Latin America. You can develop a

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Speaker 1: format in Mexico or in the Latin American country that

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Speaker 1: can you know, the finished episodes can travel, the format

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Speaker 1: rights can travel. It really is kind of an an

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Speaker 1: awareness and awakening as we've seen in a lot of

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Speaker 1: a lot of the international business that it really is

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Speaker 1: a global television business and that there is that there

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Speaker 1: is such a big market outside the US. I think

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Speaker 1: we've you know, for years this this business has been

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Speaker 1: very ethnocentric, very US centric, and it's we're gonna make

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Speaker 1: it in wild export it to the world, and that

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Speaker 1: that is just not the case anymore. It is absolutely

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Speaker 1: the case. And by the way, look I say, I

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Speaker 1: missed the good old days, and I'm talking about you know,

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Speaker 1: eight years ago, um when you really people weren't because

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Speaker 1: this market, in this US market was so huge that

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Speaker 1: You're right, a lot of people didn't care about the

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Speaker 1: global that there's complete other businesses and departments within companies

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Speaker 1: that handled international business. For these companies, it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: the people of the executives I was pitching here in

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Speaker 1: the US never got stuck on the international rights or

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Speaker 1: international positions or thought creatively. But it was something that

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Speaker 1: I started to realize early on because we had the

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Speaker 1: unique opportunity to own this real life. And when somebody

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Speaker 1: approaches about selling internationally, they would tell us, hey, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, if you guys could cast somebody

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Speaker 1: from Europe, you really would have a sell internationally. We're like, what,

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Speaker 1: And that's how, Like Bridgie Nielsen got on the show

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Speaker 1: and others. Every year we tried to put one somebody

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Speaker 1: from Europe on the castle that because we started to

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Speaker 1: understand that it would help sell it in other markets.

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Speaker 1: So I really started to get this this knowledge of

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Speaker 1: like not only you could create and sell it show

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Speaker 1: here in the US, but then how to create it

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Speaker 1: having value globally but really and then them all was

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Speaker 1: already doing that, and so a shine was there at

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Speaker 1: all a learning curve for for your team in terms

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Speaker 1: of doing business in Mexico, because I know you produce

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Speaker 1: a fair amount of shows in Mexico for Mexican broadcasters.

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Speaker 1: Were their traditions or or business business approaches, business templates

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Speaker 1: that were that were that are different in Mexico. Was

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Speaker 1: there any kind of you know, adjustment for them to

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Speaker 1: do that. It was a lot of It was a

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Speaker 1: big learning curve and both in both sides, meaning working

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Speaker 1: in Mexico for us, in understanding this process and spudgeting

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Speaker 1: because a lot of these uh free TV these broadcasters

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Speaker 1: really had you know, sizeable monopolies if you if you will,

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Speaker 1: in that in that territory in Mexico. So like a

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Speaker 1: Televisa who has literally a school for young people for

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Speaker 1: actors than to become actors on their TV shows, to

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Speaker 1: become deals. They get locked up and everything gets created

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Speaker 1: and made. I mean they three sixty the entire business

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Speaker 1: around a huge wall, like it was so self contained.

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Speaker 1: They really didn't need outside production companies. It's the old

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Speaker 1: studio you know, literally was the old studio system that

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Speaker 1: if you think in the old days when when talent

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Speaker 1: had contracts with paramounts and so forth, and MGM, he's

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Speaker 1: very much so, but this kind of disruption from streamers

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Speaker 1: and direct consumers really started to bust that up. So

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Speaker 1: for us, it was hard to find people right with

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Speaker 1: Alejander because with with this amount of demand also kind

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Speaker 1: of really strained on the resources for finding people. So

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Speaker 1: and then of course, the budgets, you know, the budgets

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Speaker 1: for local in Mexico were I mean for us working

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Speaker 1: in the US, we're massively different. Should just like shockingly

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Speaker 1: difference to US. I mean just the economic basis. It

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Speaker 1: makes sense, but but it's still an adjustment, correct. And

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Speaker 1: so we were we were doing well, We're things certain

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Speaker 1: certain things were costing an episode here in the US

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Speaker 1: for a big format were entire season budgets in Mexico.

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Speaker 1: So to that, you know, getting some used to and

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Speaker 1: understanding that a little bit, and then of course coming

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Speaker 1: this way kind of best practices because what's interesting as

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Speaker 1: these companies are now these global um you know, media

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Speaker 1: companies which didn't really exist before, but they're US based, uh,

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Speaker 1: and so they have a certain level of expectation of

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Speaker 1: US practices and premium, you know, and working from Endemol,

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Speaker 1: which is a global company and end themal shine. You

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Speaker 1: even looking at development and other territories, you have to

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Speaker 1: be mindful, have an eye, be and be open minded

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Speaker 1: because it's gonna look, you know, because of the budget

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Speaker 1: restricts and so forth. So I remember sometimes taking things

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Speaker 1: from Mexico to some of these guys and they're like WHOA,

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Speaker 1: that looks horrible, that looks like ship. You're like, I

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Speaker 1: want to imagine it with money, to imagine if we're

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Speaker 1: going to scale it up, and then we're gonna do

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Speaker 1: this and do that and do X, Y and Z.

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Speaker 1: So they could really get behind it because they were

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Speaker 1: you know, I think the the U S companies who

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Speaker 1: were working in Latin America also had a learning curve

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Speaker 1: to adjust to in terms of understanding what that market

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Speaker 1: really look like. And and then but for you and

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Speaker 1: your and for the company that is, you know, for

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Speaker 1: for your end of end them all Shine, which is

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Speaker 1: a big company, but your end of it is based

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles instead of in In many other large

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Speaker 1: media companies, you'd have a division that is focused on

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Speaker 1: international productions or co productions. But what you guys did

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Speaker 1: differently was just integrate. Spanish language was just one aspect

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Speaker 1: of the many types of programming that your team, your

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Speaker 1: core team was working on. Absolutely, we one thing really

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Speaker 1: did was to work much like we did with even

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Speaker 1: our subsidiations here in the US. We really kind of

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Speaker 1: had to flow through um in terms of how we operated.

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Speaker 1: So with truly original or fifty one minds or authentic.

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Speaker 1: You know, we brought them the formats that we had

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Speaker 1: from us that if we weren't going to work on them,

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Speaker 1: it didn't make sense for North America. We would then

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Speaker 1: funnel them to these guys, especially if it made sense

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Speaker 1: in their specific relationship with buyers. We thought, if that

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Speaker 1: strategy is working so well, and truly originals having so

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Speaker 1: much success, and fifthly one Minds is having so much success,

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Speaker 1: why wouldn't we apply that. Just because it's another country

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean with the treat it different. And and it

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Speaker 1: seems simple enough, but everyone you talk to they want

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Speaker 1: to treat the minute you say in Mexico. They think

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Speaker 1: different department, different group, different part of the company. And

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Speaker 1: it was hard to fight that and even internally, but

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Speaker 1: we we worked hard to integrate it and make it

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Speaker 1: just part of our business, so much that when we

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Speaker 1: closed the deal with boom Dog, two things happened. We

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Speaker 1: took the entire senior staff here to Mexico City or

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Speaker 1: a week and integrated the companies and so they met there.

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Speaker 1: They're kind of their parents, and there are other people

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Speaker 1: who shared similar responsibilities, and we shared advanced practices and

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Speaker 1: to the here at Animal Shine uh in in our Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: they start taking Spanish classes, so everyone so you can check.

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Speaker 1: Now there's a lot of Spanish speakers and this is

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Speaker 1: company now, you know, think about our in our business affairs.

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Speaker 1: So we've brought in, you know, people who obviously are

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Speaker 1: bilingual and for both contracts and working with legal people

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Speaker 1: in Mexico, we don't. We obviously recognize that it's two

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Speaker 1: different countries and there's certain laws and in certain practices

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Speaker 1: that we have to adhere to, uh in which we

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Speaker 1: want to be aware of. But when you get below

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Speaker 1: that in terms of creative process, in terms of pitching characters,

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Speaker 1: casting and funding, the best producer that you know, because

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Speaker 1: for us, the one thing that I think that we

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Speaker 1: do really well and emotion shine is we stay focused

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Speaker 1: on we know that most important things who's making the show.

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Speaker 1: It's one thing that who's selling it. It's one thing

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Speaker 1: who created it, but it really we've focus on who's

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Speaker 1: making it. Undoubtedly that comes from your background as a

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Speaker 1: producer in the trenches with you know, sleeves rolled up

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Speaker 1: making the show. Yeah, it really it's like who's going

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Speaker 1: to be on set and delivering this story and these

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Speaker 1: characters and driving this narrative or this competition, whatever the

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Speaker 1: show might be about. And that's what we're focused on.

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Speaker 1: And that's actually becoming our biggest challenge in these in

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Speaker 1: these other territories, including Brazil, is uh finding a more

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Speaker 1: of those people who can do that premium content. But

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Speaker 1: that being said is why people like Ajandro, who is

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Speaker 1: one of the top guys, also gives confidence to to

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Speaker 1: really invest and build a business in that territory. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's clear that you you found the person that you

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Speaker 1: felt that you felt comfortable partnering with. And I can

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Speaker 1: only imagine that, you know, having that that real footprint

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Speaker 1: there can only be for your talent scouting in terms

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Speaker 1: of you know, you never know when the next great

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Speaker 1: idea or the next personality who's going to break out,

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Speaker 1: you know, to have boots on the ground. There no

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Speaker 1: so much that I think I'm gonna start charging Netflix

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Speaker 1: for recruitment positions, uh as they continue to try to

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Speaker 1: hire from our company and there I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: you gotta give Netflix credit for really I think that

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Speaker 1: they have gone a long way to opening people's eyes

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Speaker 1: to the potential of you know, there can be great,

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Speaker 1: great shows that come from you know, come from all

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Speaker 1: over the all over the place. It's not just a

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Speaker 1: US and Western Europe and UK business. I think, Look,

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Speaker 1: that's an exciting part. And you go down there, when

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Speaker 1: you're in Mexico City and you're meeting with the different

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Speaker 1: you know people, the producers, directors, writers, other executives, it's

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Speaker 1: just such an exciting time because they've always been there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look at the last you know, three or

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Speaker 1: four years in the Oscars, Mexican directors have won, you know,

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Speaker 1: the Oscar for the Future. The talent has been down there,

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Speaker 1: it's just has not been tapped in the sense of

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Speaker 1: this need. And so it's exciting now to be given

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Speaker 1: this opportunity. And you're right, Look, it's the fact that

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Speaker 1: we were there four years ago, building this foundation, building

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Speaker 1: this team building you know, boom dog. We have this

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Speaker 1: incredible studios. I mean it's like a mini paramount. We

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Speaker 1: have all we're missing in some golf carts. We have sound.

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Speaker 1: So we have post production facilities. Uh in the town

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Speaker 1: called not the fair Um just outside of Mexico City.

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Speaker 1: We have a full blown post production facility, production offices.

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Speaker 1: We have four sound stages that are massive. We we

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Speaker 1: do master chef you know what, them. We do. We

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Speaker 1: did Big Brother. We built a house, a Big Brother

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Speaker 1: house that's on the Property Craft Service. You know, Um,

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Speaker 1: it's a full blown little uh studio and sound stages

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Speaker 1: really set up for production. And and so the fact

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Speaker 1: that we spent the last four years building that it

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Speaker 1: was great to see payoff with Netflix and soon you know,

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Speaker 1: Apple Plus and Amazon and Hulu and everyone else seems

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Speaker 1: will be arriving soon. But you look at Netflix, who

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Speaker 1: is what committed two hundred million dollars into Mexico, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I think they announced it in fifty projects

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Speaker 1: in the next couple of years. And so obviously we're

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Speaker 1: we're excited and lucky to be a part of all that.

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Speaker 1: That's got to help spark, as you said, it's got

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Speaker 1: to just help spark a real infrastructure and a almost

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Speaker 1: you know, a path for people to pitch shows in

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Speaker 1: a more in a more what we would call traditional

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Speaker 1: more US style for a country that had largely been

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Speaker 1: dominated by state owned broadcasters that as you said, they

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Speaker 1: produced all their stuff in the house. There wasn't there

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Speaker 1: wasn't much avenue for a producer to say, I've got

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Speaker 1: a great idea for a show. And now, as I

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Speaker 1: understand that's changing. It has changed a lot. And and

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Speaker 1: to that point, I think the free TV as they

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Speaker 1: call it, you know, they say it with broadcasters in

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Speaker 1: Mexico have really obviously much like here not the different

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Speaker 1: have been disrupted by these streamers UM. So therefore they've

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Speaker 1: had to change a little bit of their development process

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Speaker 1: and who they're working with, and so it's created even

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Speaker 1: more opportunities for producers, you know, and and creators and

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Speaker 1: makers and what is exciting UM. And so we have

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Speaker 1: this incredible relationship with Televisa to today that I don't

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Speaker 1: think we've had in the past before. It's a company.

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Speaker 1: We just did a mass singer for them, and it

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Speaker 1: was a huge hit in Mexico. It did not disappoint.

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Speaker 1: It's the highest rated show in Mexico in the last

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Speaker 1: ten years. We do meet a bile for for UM

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Speaker 1: and it's hugely successful. UM. And so it's really you know,

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Speaker 1: because it's become competitive, but I think because the people

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Speaker 1: are really now really trying to give the audience what

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Speaker 1: they want UM, it's become exciting for us and and

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Speaker 1: for for makers and especially for for boom Dog to

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Speaker 1: be part of that. An interesting too, I would imagine

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Speaker 1: that your Spanish language content does travel even outside of

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Speaker 1: Spanish speaking markets. Absolutely that you were able to license

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Speaker 1: your finished episodes in your formats in other markets. And

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Speaker 1: I know endemal Shine is one of the best positioned

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Speaker 1: companies to sell, you know, to get product into Germany

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Speaker 1: and to get you know, to all around the world.

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Speaker 1: You have many tentacles. Now we we look at that

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Speaker 1: one of the things that Animal shne does really well.

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Speaker 1: And I don't say just because I'm part of that company,

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Speaker 1: in the group, but I really have come to coming

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Speaker 1: into this role, I mean coming from fifty one minds

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Speaker 1: and then into the role of the international part of

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Speaker 1: the company and seeing how one of the strains of

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Speaker 1: the group is to create formats that with these tentpoles

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Speaker 1: that travel, right. So like you think of Master Chef

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Speaker 1: and it has the tent poles of the setting and

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Speaker 1: the beginning, middle end, but the casting and the food

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Speaker 1: become local, right, so become a real smart way of

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Speaker 1: doing that. You look at Big Brother, which is of

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Speaker 1: course the house and to fly on the wall and

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Speaker 1: all that sort of technique, but then the casting makes

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Speaker 1: it local and and even some things are different. We

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Speaker 1: have done that exactly with boom Dog and sharing those

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Speaker 1: best practices with them, and therefore Lender and his team

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Speaker 1: are creating formats that Yeah, you're absolutely right, that are

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Speaker 1: traveling as are late. We've been really connecting, you know,

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Speaker 1: Alejandro and boom Dog with our team in Spain. So

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Speaker 1: you think of Spanish is the I think it's the

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Speaker 1: number three language in the world. Um, and you can

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Speaker 1: see that's too man. But I also think that if

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Speaker 1: you look at just I think the global audience today

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Speaker 1: proven bios theories like Narcos and I just saw what

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Speaker 1: I see, um, the Aquafina Chinese um form from it.

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00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,120
Speaker 1: This isn't I don't think it matters so much anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's good, it's good, and and we have to read

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Speaker 1: a few subtitles. It doesn't make a difference. You look

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Speaker 1: at Money Heist, you know, it's you know, a huge

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Speaker 1: from Spain. People. You know, we do Dark Animal Shine

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Speaker 1: in Germany and it's a huge hit hair and that's

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Speaker 1: a show in German. Yeah, people will watch if it's compelling,

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Speaker 1: you will. You know, there was so such a fear

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Speaker 1: of subtitles, but there was you know, there were a

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Speaker 1: couple of shows HBO has had my brilliant friend. You know,

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Speaker 1: Americans can read subtitles and will and exactly and will

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Speaker 1: be compelled if the intent is there. And I think

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Speaker 1: that this audience now really appreciates the authenticity of a project.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the things that you know, we

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Speaker 1: really while having this kind of bi cultural, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of by market kind of situation that we have

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Speaker 1: is really working for us because having that authenticity, authenticity

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Speaker 1: to the story is really important, right, And so having

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Speaker 1: a mix of people who who really know how to

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Speaker 1: cast a show that feels local, that feels like the

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Speaker 1: stories are are are relatable because their local stories that

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Speaker 1: territory is just really critically important, and that's why it's

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Speaker 1: important to have. One of the things we're doing too

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Speaker 1: is really unique is we are pulling a lot of

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Speaker 1: you know, people who have worked in general market who

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Speaker 1: are bilingual, like Marie Leguizamo, who we have a deal with,

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Speaker 1: who has an incredibly strong producers then the voice you know,

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Speaker 1: for for Telemundo and now she does l Off for Amazon,

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Speaker 1: but completely bilingual. Um works in the US and works

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Speaker 1: in Latin America, and so we're point more of those

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Speaker 1: kind of uh people together. So they can really share

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Speaker 1: best practices and that really shows on screen with the

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Speaker 1: end result of the project. And again, I just can

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Speaker 1: imagine that the amount of you know, the recent investment

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Speaker 1: and activity and opportunity is just gonna it's just gonna

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Speaker 1: make that marketplace, you know, be even more vibrant. It is,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's again, I think it really and

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Speaker 1: you it's it's really shocking because it seems like a

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Speaker 1: simple idea to act as one company, regardless of the language.

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Speaker 1: But you it's really surprising to a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that we behave that way. But I'm seeing it more

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Speaker 1: and more now, you know, like you know, um, Alejandro

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Speaker 1: just made a deal with Gaston Polovich, who is the

433
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: producer of The Irishman, who's of Mexican and native in

434
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: Mexico City. Um. And so that's a deal that was

435
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: made in Mexico for Spanish series. But obviously Gaston has

436
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: had a lot of success with the US market. He

437
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 1: also did A Madman and the Professor and many in

438
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 1: Silence and many other features in the US. So now

439
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: you know, you see it. You know, just the last

440
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: week where Alejander will connect Gaston with Sharon Levy, who

441
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 1: in our office here in the US, who's doing you know,

442
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: utopia for Amazon and other stuff. And now they're working

443
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: on project together. It's really become just kind of one

444
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: world in a sense where these it's not just the

445
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: company behaving as one, but other producers are working in

446
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: multiple markets. Now, do you feel like you're some of

447
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: your role as CEO is really casting, you know, putting

448
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 1: the not just casting of shows, but putting the right

449
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: people together. This producer might might connect with this executive.

450
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: Is that is that it seems like that would be

451
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: a bigger part of the job now I think it is,

452
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: and look always for me, it was very different because

453
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: I didn't have any corporate training and I always like

454
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: to say I never had a real job as a producer.

455
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,959
Speaker 1: But I still take that very much. The producer approach

456
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: as the CEO of this company, meaning through through is

457
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 1: fund to the best people in building teams. Let me

458
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: ask you, just because I know again one of the

459
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: things that Boom Dog has brought to you is is

460
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: this just an influx of great talent and ideas? Talent

461
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: is the single like most precious commodity in Hollywood, in

462
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: the creative community these days. How in the in the

463
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: bigger picture is end them all shine? Dealing with the

464
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: arms race for content that the you know, the really

465
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: rising costs of talent. You know, you're in a kind

466
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 1: of an interesting position. You're not a small indie, but

467
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: you're not one of the big majors either. Has this

468
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: been a difficult time just just given the kind of

469
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: just the way the economics of the business have shot

470
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: up in every direction. You know, everything from the cost

471
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: of renting a boom mic to the cost of doing

472
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,239
Speaker 1: a deal with the name Star has just gone up

473
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: so exponentially. How are you managing that as a business?

474
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: It has become increasingly difficult. I think if you look

475
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: at Martin's today compared to what they were just four

476
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: years ago, it's there nowhere near the same, and it

477
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: has become really difficult. And to your point, the cause

478
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: the rising cost of talent um. The truth is the

479
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: extent of production and making some of these series, the

480
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: larger formats, specifically here in the US, has has been

481
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: the same. But I think when you look at the

482
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: what the broadcasters are are looking to spend now, because

483
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: when you look at what the ratings are compared to

484
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: what they were six years ago, and you're looking at

485
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: the pride they there. It was something that you didn't

486
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: really see before when you would go to a pitch

487
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: and you would just pitch the creative and if they

488
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 1: either liked it or didn't like it. Now it's how

489
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: much does it cost? And to the point where I've

490
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: been in some rooms where a buyer has broken out

491
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: of calculator to see if this budget cost this and

492
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: gets this rating, what does it make? Um? And so

493
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: it has become increasingly difficult. But look, that's our job

494
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: as producers and creators to really figure out ideas they're

495
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: still fun and and and out, and it can be

496
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: done at a price point that makes sense. UM. And

497
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: I think you know interestingly enough sharing best practices. We

498
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: learn a lot actually from the guys in Mexico and

499
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: Brazil because some of the things they pull off at

500
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: certain price points. It shows you that we know that

501
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: where we should be focusing on spending some of this

502
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: money versus some of the things we're doing, you know

503
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: in the US that aren't as efficient. And you could

504
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 1: also look in Brazil where these guys are doing massive

505
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: brand driven programming, which we're not having success within the US,

506
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: but these guys are doing. So there's we're really it

507
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: kind of we in the same way that we share

508
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: rest best practices with them, we're looking at those two

509
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: territories and learning a lot. Also, money is not always

510
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: the solution to to every single problem. Um. You know

511
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: you you mentioned your background coming as a producer. How

512
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: was it for you it's going on six years now

513
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: since you were since you were named as first co

514
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: CEO and then and now CEO so low, how was

515
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: it for you? Was it a learning curve for you

516
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: to become a manager of You'd obviously managed shows and productions,

517
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: but to be to manage people at a at a

518
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: CEO level for a company of this size, Was it

519
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: a learning curve? It absolutely was, and it was very

520
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: It was absolutely different experience to the extent that running

521
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: the show and ran a business are two very different things. Um.

522
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: Fortunately for me, I ran the business of fifty one

523
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: minds too, but not at the scale that was endom

524
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: at the time, and then become an endom all shine.

525
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: So to think to go from a company of fifty

526
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: one minds of forty people to over four people, Yeah,

527
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: management had to become something that I had to really

528
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,959
Speaker 1: focus on. And it was difficult at first, you know,

529
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: the the but I quickly realized that no matter the

530
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: size and scale of the company, that two things were

531
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: exactly the same, that it ran on the same gas

532
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: meeting ideas right like either company they needed, we needed ideas,

533
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,479
Speaker 1: and we needed to sell shows. And and two it

534
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: was still really came down to who was making these projects,

535
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 1: and that was execution. Execution two things I was good at,

536
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: challenge and execution. So it became about me focusing on that,

537
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: finding those best people for that. It will tell you

538
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: it was difficult because I wanted to make these shows.

539
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: So so after you know, in the first year, I

540
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: was selling a couple of things and then not being

541
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: able to to make them because you see, the scope

542
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: of this business was was was hard. And then I'll

543
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: never forget the moment that it really hit me the

544
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: face was when I went to UH set a big

545
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: Brother and I met everyone and it was in production

546
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: and they said, okay, we got a chair for you,

547
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: and it was in the back corner of the control

548
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: room and I was like, I know that chair. I

549
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: sent every executive when I was making shows to that

550
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: chair and there I was in the back corn sitting

551
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: watching and it was one of the first times I

552
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: was like, oh man, you're not making these shows. Um.

553
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: But it was also one of the first times where

554
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: I really you never to go there. I miss it

555
00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: and making actually watching Allison and Rich just create story

556
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: and track it was. It made mut up out of

557
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: the seat, but I stayed in my chair. And undoubtedly,

558
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, your experience in one area informs the other clearly,

559
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: and then I think, and it's it's been helpful, it's

560
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: been good. And look, I don't by that to that point.

561
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: I don't you know, Look, Master Chef is something that's

562
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,719
Speaker 1: this incredible show that I can't take any credit for.

563
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: But when you know, we we got together, we emerged

564
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: with shine and I was a fan of the show

565
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: and as a viewer, but then to become a part

566
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: of it, I immediately written knew that my role was

567
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: to support it and to grow it and to uh,

568
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: you know the people who were making it, um, Sam

569
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: Linkedalison and Rich and my brother. Look, these guys have

570
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: been they're the best of what they do. And so

571
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: my role was to get to know Gordon and to

572
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: build a relationship with him and understand what his needs were.

573
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: And how we could grow and shake up the show

574
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: every year, and what I could do from my seat,

575
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of finding him the best people,

576
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,959
Speaker 1: finding the idea, guys, finding money to mix it up.

577
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: I knew, yeah quickly, that was my role in this

578
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: in in these shows. So it still has a bit

579
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: of a producer kind of approach to it in strategy. Um,

580
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: but look, I think I can't. We've been so fortunate

581
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: to have to work with so many great producers and

582
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: watching them work has been amazing. Um, and you see

583
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: why some of these shows still in the air, you know,

584
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: fifteen years later, right. I want to compliment you, Chris.

585
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago you put out a terrific

586
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: book called Make It Reality, and you shared your story

587
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: of how you came from a from a very different

588
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: background than most people in Hollywood. You you have the

589
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: door opened to you to the idea that producing could

590
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: be could be a career, that working in television was

591
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: an option for you. I thought you you articulated it

592
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: beautifully in the book and really presented your story as

593
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: almost a how to guide, Not that somebody was going

594
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: to take your exact process, but just the awareness to

595
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: to being open to that one door that the you know,

596
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: you were in high school and you just the one

597
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: class with the one pitch. But here's an opportunity that

598
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: that you took and had you not, had you missed

599
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: class that day or something, you know, just the known

600
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: about the opportunity. Yeah, it's well, thank you for saying that.

601
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: And you know, I was very hesitant to to go

602
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: down that road and writing a book because I felt

603
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: it was a little too like you know it leader

604
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: or I'm too young. But you know, yesterday I just

605
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: had lunch with we run I run this diversity program

606
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: scholar internship program with the Academy, and he was one

607
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: of the candidates. Not he didn't intern here, but he

608
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: had met him through the academy and he read the

609
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: book and it prompted him to apply to the internship

610
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: to come into the business. And you hear those corny

611
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: lines all the time. Anybody says if I could change

612
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: one line, and I really then I thanked them for

613
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: for you know, connecting with me reaching out because I

614
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: wasn't like it was really hesitant to read to write

615
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: that book. But listening to him tell that story that

616
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: that someone who looked like him, who came from a

617
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: town like him, who had a situation like his, had

618
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: success in a business that no one even had thought

619
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: to explore because it's not there's no guarantees in this business.

620
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: And and look, this is for all parents, and no

621
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: parent wants to hear that here their kid is, after

622
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: going on a very expensive college, is gonna work in

623
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: a mail room or where become a producer. So the

624
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:16,719
Speaker 1: last thing they want to make sure, you know, especially

625
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: in the Latino family, they want to make sure you

626
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: have a good job and insurance. That's it. That's it.

627
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: But to hear from him, it really, you know. And

628
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: and I give at least one or two of those

629
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: a year since I put the book out, And so

630
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: it's made me feel better about it, and it's something

631
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: that's important to me. I think you look at this company,

632
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: uh now even and if you walk around on the

633
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: floor here or anyone in our companies, you would just

634
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: see a lot of people, very very diverse group. And

635
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: it's been it's been. It's not just because it's the

636
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: right thing to do by any means. It has really

637
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: brought us a lot of business. And it's been We've

638
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: been really successful because we keep a very diverse group

639
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: of people working here. Oh there is no there is

640
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: absolutely no question that that if you want to program

641
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: for America or the America's you have to look like them. Well,

642
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: thank you so much, thank you for taking taking the

643
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: time and sharing your thoughts. And I really have. As

644
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: I said, I've been very intrigued by Endemol Shine Boom

645
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: Dog and I'm so glad to hear the whole backstory. Well,

646
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: the next time, I would love to take you down

647
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: to Mexico City and shots. Yeah, I'm game. I'm game.

648
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Chris, thanks for listening. Be sure

649
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: to tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business. Yeah,