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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't stories of things we simply don't

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Speaker 1: know the answer to. Hire. Welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I am Joe, joined as always by Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: and we're here to talk, of course, to talk about

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Speaker 1: another mystery. Yeah indeed, yes, if that's what you're into

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Speaker 1: these days. Yeah, it's what the kids dick until we

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Speaker 1: become a cooking show. That's not until next week. Don't

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Speaker 1: tell anybody how very good at that. Yeah. Alright, So

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Speaker 1: this week we're going to talk about a very famous

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Speaker 1: lost treasure, which you've probably heard of. If you haven't

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Speaker 1: heard about it, well you're in for kind of a treat.

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Speaker 1: This one is called Yamashta's Gold. Also notice of the

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Speaker 1: Masta treasure. You probably we know of it as Yamashita

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Speaker 1: because that's how it spelled, but the actually pronounced Yamashta.

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Speaker 1: Oh is it really? Yeah? Yeah, I didn't realize that.

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Speaker 1: I remember because the first time I heard about this

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Speaker 1: is what it was like two years ago when we

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Speaker 1: talked to Roy Baton and he mentioned this when we

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Speaker 1: were talking to him after we had finished the recording,

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Speaker 1: and he had mentioned it, and he'd call it Yamashida

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Speaker 1: as well. So I just a lot of people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I figured that was the correct pronunciation that you researched

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Speaker 1: this and not me. Yeah, yeah, you never know. I

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Speaker 1: mean maybe his it's actually a name like a somebody's

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Speaker 1: given names, So maybe maybe he pronoun he actually did

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Speaker 1: pronounce Yamashida. The Yamashta of yamash says Gold was General

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Speaker 1: Tamayuki Yamashta, who was in command of Japanese forces in

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Speaker 1: the Philippines from nineteen and as you know, what was

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Speaker 1: going on back then, it's like oh war, Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: second big one we had, the Second U. The Japanese

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Speaker 1: had been special guests of the Philippine people for a

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Speaker 1: while now, yeah, and then along about late nineteen four,

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Speaker 1: a bunch of Americans with guns showed up and said

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Speaker 1: something in the order we want it back. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we gotta take this here back. Let's talk about the treasure. Though.

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Speaker 1: The treasure came from all over the place. The Japanese

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Speaker 1: invaded and occupied a lot of countries before and during

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Speaker 1: World War Two, as you guys know, brutally. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was there. They were kind of harsh. Uh. Those

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Speaker 1: countries include China, Korea, Burma, Malaya, Dutch East Indies, Singapore

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Speaker 1: and of course the Philippines, and of course besides me

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Speaker 1: and kind of brutal, they also looted the places for

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Speaker 1: all they could find. Like they took a lot of gold, silver, platinum,

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Speaker 1: precious gems and stuff like that I would do. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it worked so hard for this. Yeah. According to some people,

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Speaker 1: the most of the loot was shipped down to Singapore,

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Speaker 1: whereas the reportedly was cataloged, and then it was shipped

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Speaker 1: off to the Philippines, which is sort of on the

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Speaker 1: way to Japan. From the Philippines, the booty was sent

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Speaker 1: on to Japan, supposedly along with the valuables that they

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Speaker 1: stole from the Philippines. Also, uh, and nobody knows how

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Speaker 1: much of this loot actually made it to Japan, if

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Speaker 1: any of it. I'm sure a lot of it did. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And nineteen two, though, after the Battle of Midway, the

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Speaker 1: American Navy began to dominate the Western Pacific and started

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Speaker 1: sinking a lot of Japanese ships. So probably a few

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Speaker 1: of these had loot on board. Also quite probably. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's sitting down. They're waiting for you if you want

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Speaker 1: to go find it. Storal. Yeah, I know at this

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Speaker 1: point that then the treasure was kind of stuck in

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Speaker 1: the Philippines because it's kind of wasteful. It's sitting on

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Speaker 1: a ship that's gonna get sunk, So what to do period? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's an idea. Yeah. Yeah. The US invaded the Philippines

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Speaker 1: in October ninety four. Msh A fought on for Aumust

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Speaker 1: a year, eventually surrendered in September, and to keep himself

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Speaker 1: occupied in the interim, he did the usual military stuff,

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Speaker 1: but also started hiding all the loots so that it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't fall into Yankee hands. Makes sense, right, Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I do it. It has claimed that the treasure wound

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Speaker 1: up being stashed in between a hundred seventy two and

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Speaker 1: a hundred seventy five places, although I've heard other other

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Speaker 1: stories where it just was stashed in one enormous cavern.

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Speaker 1: That that is the one enormous cavern is kind of

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Speaker 1: the fantastic version that I've come across. Yeah, that's always

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Speaker 1: the first one that pops up on your searches. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it seems like it'd be easier to just

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Speaker 1: do one. Depends on how much stuff you goss to

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Speaker 1: throw it all in that cave, put it under the dragon.

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Speaker 1: That's all idea. You go, recruiter dragon. Indiana Jones didn't

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Speaker 1: show up in your file. You're finding It's been always

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Speaker 1: been my dream to find something like this, So would

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Speaker 1: that be great anyway? Yeah. The method that they used

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Speaker 1: was typically this. It would d to suit the hiding place,

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Speaker 1: let's see a cave, and then a bunch of booty

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Speaker 1: would be hauled in with soldiers or slave labor or both.

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Speaker 1: Engineers would rig up booby traps so anybody trying to

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Speaker 1: get in there would get killed, and then the cave

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Speaker 1: entrance would be sealed or blasted shut with everybody inside,

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Speaker 1: so that way they wouldn't be able to tell anybody

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Speaker 1: where the treasure was. That does sound a whole lot

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Speaker 1: like Indiana Jones. Yeah. Yeah, I want my whip and everything.

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Speaker 1: We're going. We're going many Incidentally, Uh, the Monster's gold

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Speaker 1: was featured and not even though it was not named,

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Speaker 1: but it's in Neil Stevens Neil Stevenson's Cryptanomicon, which I

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Speaker 1: know I plugged before. Yeah, don't you say you've mentioned

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Speaker 1: this book before? Yeah, Boilers. One of the main characters

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Speaker 1: in the book is is a Japanese guy who wands

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Speaker 1: up getting conscripted in one of these into hiding some

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Speaker 1: fabulous amount of stuff in this cave because he's a

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Speaker 1: clever guy. What they do is they seal it shut

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Speaker 1: with him and a few other people inside, and then

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Speaker 1: they flooded they haven't heard river, basically to flood the cavern.

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Speaker 1: And but he's he's engineered, he's engineering himself a way out,

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Speaker 1: so he actually escapes. Yeah, I know, I know, I

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Speaker 1: should have probably spoilers. Yeah wait, wait, go back, we

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Speaker 1: can let edit it in you're ready. Spoilers. The legend

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Speaker 1: of your Master's Gold has never gone away, and for

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Speaker 1: decades people have been looking for this, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people and they're still doing it today, and quite a

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Speaker 1: few of them have gotten killed trying. Also, nobody has

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Speaker 1: ever found the treasure, except for one guy named Rol Rojas,

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Speaker 1: who will talk about a little bit later on. Maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe maybe if you're good, No, I'm sorry, I

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Speaker 1: meant maybe he found it. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's yeah, she's right, yeah yeah yeah, or found a

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Speaker 1: part of it. We totally misinterpreted that. Yeah, well, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about theories then, all right, let's that's a pretty

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Speaker 1: our summation, So I guess we can talk about some

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Speaker 1: of the theories. Yeah, there's a lot to go through

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Speaker 1: here in theories a little bit. Yeah, there's several theories.

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Speaker 1: One is that it's real and it's out there waiting

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Speaker 1: to be discovered. Still, so this is is it Are

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Speaker 1: we doing kind of heading theories right that we sometimes

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Speaker 1: with my stories will do theory one the gold is real,

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Speaker 1: but sub theory one the gold is real, and this

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Speaker 1: thing are we doing that sort of thing is about

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Speaker 1: the construct here. If by subhead the gold is real,

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Speaker 1: most theories and then subhead are heading to the gold

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Speaker 1: is not real. Alright, So if we assume the gold

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Speaker 1: is real, the theories are the theories are that, well,

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Speaker 1: they just did a really good job hiding it and

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Speaker 1: it has yet to be found. But that's not you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not really much to say about that one. So

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Speaker 1: this is something that that struck me a little odd.

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Speaker 1: If the job, if indeed the Japanese did gather all

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Speaker 1: of this sub and they're looting everybody, why is it

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Speaker 1: always the gold that everybody talks about. There would have

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Speaker 1: been all kinds of precious stones and things like that.

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Speaker 1: I imagine artwork would have been collected. But why is

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Speaker 1: it we only ever talk about the gold. I don't

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Speaker 1: understand what the I mean, I understand that people have

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Speaker 1: an obscene lust for gold, but it's just funny to

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Speaker 1: me that that's the only thing that ever gets brought up.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I just I just said that, you Masha's

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Speaker 1: Gold sounds like a cooler title, and you know, your

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Speaker 1: master's treasure. Maybe that's why maybe ems salt stolen stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that doesn't sound so great. Yeah it's lout. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but obviously they did. They did gather up you know,

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Speaker 1: jewelry and jam everything, plat and the silver, a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff besides gold. Yeah, they hoovered it all up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well they kind of. I mean, yeah, they're not the

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Speaker 1: only ones that we're doing that kind of stuff in

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Speaker 1: that exact same time frame. I mean, that was kind

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Speaker 1: of a common practice. But it's still it's funny, is

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Speaker 1: that in this particular story that it's so it's just

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Speaker 1: the gold that everyone talks about. So the Philippines are

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Speaker 1: still still do have enough kind of undeveloped lush areas

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Speaker 1: that this is a feasible thing that it just hasn't

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Speaker 1: been discovered yet. Yeah, it's yeah, I have no I

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Speaker 1: I got to be honest, I have no kind of

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Speaker 1: scope of how saturated the population is on the Philippines. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it's there's some I don't know

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Speaker 1: much about the Philippines, to be honest with you, I

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Speaker 1: know some islands have a fairly decent sized population and

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Speaker 1: summer practically deserted. Sure. Yeah, because that would be my

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Speaker 1: question about this is you know, is it even feasible

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Speaker 1: that there would be a hundred and seventy caches of well,

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty big area. Yeah, And you know, most

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Speaker 1: of those islands tend to have all of their majority

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Speaker 1: of their population centered in one or two major cities

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Speaker 1: reports so that leaves a lot of undeveloped rural areas.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's why everybody's kind of saying, well,

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Speaker 1: it's still got to be out there. Yeah, Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I still don't know exactly how the number one seventy

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Speaker 1: two hiding places where that exactly came up from? Some

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Speaker 1: and some of those are not all on land either.

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Speaker 1: Some of them, like around forty or so, or are

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Speaker 1: supposedly underwater somewhere like an underwater cave or Yeah. But

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Speaker 1: he found a map that he was playing Tic Tac

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Speaker 1: toe on and interpret in every ax is a location

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Speaker 1: for Yeah. Yeah, well our next there is this, which

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Speaker 1: is that your Monster's gold really was real, but the

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Speaker 1: Americans got their hands on it. That's in this series

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Speaker 1: of advanced in the book that's called Gold Warriors by

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Speaker 1: Sterling and Peggy Seagrave. Did you read any of this

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Speaker 1: of the book? Yeah? No, I um. I went out

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Speaker 1: to Amazon dot Com and I read the description, and

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Speaker 1: then I went to the reviews, and the reviews were

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Speaker 1: very useful. They save me from wasting my time with this.

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Speaker 1: Well I read they They put out some like three

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Speaker 1: or four page summation of their stuff, and I found

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Speaker 1: that and I read through it, and they're really stretching

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, And I know we're going to go

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Speaker 1: into some of this, but I was really surprised at

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Speaker 1: some of the correlations. And I'm using air quotes here

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Speaker 1: that they made. Yeah, they took they took a lot

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Speaker 1: of liberties with the truth here. Well, let's let's happen.

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Speaker 1: So they what what they say is an intelligence operative

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Speaker 1: is probably from interrogating captured Japanese. They got onto the

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Speaker 1: scent of the booty somehow, and then um, they really

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Speaker 1: couldn't interrogate and torture Yamashta, so they grabbed this driver

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Speaker 1: and tortured him for a while until he confessed. And

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Speaker 1: since he was too much, this driver, he was driving

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Speaker 1: them all over all these locations, presumably so he was

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Speaker 1: underwater and stuff. Yeah, exactly. Uh, and then they used

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Speaker 1: all this lute that they found to fund black operations

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Speaker 1: all around the world, including including bribing politicians, buying elections,

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Speaker 1: and all kinds of stuff. And their book is supposedly

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Speaker 1: very well documented, but to find out the sources of

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Speaker 1: their information you have to buy a bunch of CDs

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Speaker 1: separately from the book. Oh yeah, I don't actually list

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Speaker 1: their their references and sources like every other book I've

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Speaker 1: ever read does. Well, I think that they do have.

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00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,079
Speaker 1: I think they do have citations in the book. But

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00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,000
Speaker 1: apparently if you want all their information then you have

216
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,680
Speaker 1: to buy the CDs. Yeah and so, and that's a

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00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,520
Speaker 1: whole separate price in the books they found the gold Yeah,

218
00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,360
Speaker 1: I know, obviously, Yeah, this is this is stuff. Yeah,

219
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,080
Speaker 1: I know. It's kind of like kind of like the

220
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:39,720
Speaker 1: gold Rush, you know, the guys who really made out

221
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,600
Speaker 1: like bandits were the guys that want and sold sold

222
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,200
Speaker 1: shovels and stuff like that to all the prospectors. You know,

223
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,760
Speaker 1: prospectors all weren't broke, almost of them did. Anyway, My favorite,

224
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Speaker 1: my my favorite of all the reviews on there was

225
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,440
Speaker 1: a one star review from a guy named Angus Waycott

226
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Speaker 1: that it was written a book called a book called Sodo,

227
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Speaker 1: Japan's Island in Exile and the Sea Graves in their

228
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,720
Speaker 1: book claim that more than a thousand Korean slave laborers

229
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Speaker 1: vanished without a trace on Sodo Island, and they cite

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00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,040
Speaker 1: Angus Waycott's book to support this. But according to Waycott,

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Speaker 1: his book says no such things. That's a direct quote, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was on the Amazon review. Yeah yeah, Elsie said.

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Speaker 1: He said it was a deliberate misrepresentation and he also

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Speaker 1: said it was shameful. And so you know, after reading

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Speaker 1: that review, I just figured I was going to leave

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Speaker 1: it at that. I think you guys can go read

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Speaker 1: the reviews on Amazon and decide for yourselves. But I

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Speaker 1: think support for this theory is not really not really there. Well,

239
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,520
Speaker 1: and like I said, I I read some of their

240
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,920
Speaker 1: stuff and it is really thin and there is a

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Speaker 1: lot of leaps of faith made in it. Yeah, a

242
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of the other critical reviews out

243
00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,520
Speaker 1: there said the same thing. That's just poorly sourced. And

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00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 1: one under one guy said, this would make a fine

245
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,800
Speaker 1: little thriller to reach it read at the beach when

246
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:09,840
Speaker 1: you're on vacation. Yeah, you shouldn't treat it as nonfiction. Nice,

247
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,480
Speaker 1: So I will put that theory to bed, all right. Yeah.

248
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,720
Speaker 1: The next another theory is that under the Golden real

249
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,040
Speaker 1: thing is that maybe some Japanese soldiers who had knowledge

250
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,160
Speaker 1: of at least some of these places have have gone

251
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,040
Speaker 1: back in the decades since and actually found some of

252
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,640
Speaker 1: this stuff and spirited spirited out of the country. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

253
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:34,280
Speaker 1: I like it. Yeah that makes sense. Yeah yeah. What

254
00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 1: does not make sense to you? Well, I'm just I'm

255
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,760
Speaker 1: just thinking about the state of Japan after the war

256
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,760
Speaker 1: and everything that's going on. Well, not like you'd have

257
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,320
Speaker 1: to wait, like somebody would have to wait at least

258
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,280
Speaker 1: a decade or two before they could even think to

259
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,120
Speaker 1: do it. Oh yeah, I mean, now you'd have to

260
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,200
Speaker 1: you have to wait quite a while just for he

261
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,200
Speaker 1: just for emotions to die down in the Philippines, because

262
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,560
Speaker 1: let's face it, they didn't behave themselves perfectly when they

263
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,840
Speaker 1: were there, and so you probably want to wait a

264
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,200
Speaker 1: decade or two when you went back, unless it was

265
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,960
Speaker 1: you know, in remote areas of the Philippines and you

266
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,640
Speaker 1: just get a boat, I mean, oh, yeah, sneak on shore,

267
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,080
Speaker 1: or it's not on shore, it's underwater, and you just

268
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,080
Speaker 1: just come back. Yeah, that's that's a possibility. Uh, this

269
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,200
Speaker 1: is a this is a fine theory, and it's entirely possible,

270
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,440
Speaker 1: but it's sure speculation and oh it's absolutely yeah, and

271
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 1: I'm just throwing it into waste everybody's time. Thanks. So, yeah, possible,

272
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,480
Speaker 1: but based on the evidence, I've got to give it

273
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,880
Speaker 1: a fail. I guess you could, um, you know that

274
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,840
Speaker 1: kind of gold bribe some officials in the Philippines. Well

275
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,840
Speaker 1: that's that's true too. I mean you could you could

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00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 1: go to them and just say, hey, look, I know

277
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,760
Speaker 1: where there's a huge stash of gold. Yeah, let's let

278
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,200
Speaker 1: let's dig it up and you can have half. Or

279
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,400
Speaker 1: you don't even say that, or you just sneak in

280
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,880
Speaker 1: and if you get caught sneaking out, you say, here's

281
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,240
Speaker 1: some gold, have some gold. Well, yeah, and as long

282
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Speaker 1: as somebody melt sit down. I'm assuming, of course, that

283
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,120
Speaker 1: it's in bar form and not in whatever original jewelry

284
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,680
Speaker 1: shape it was. If it's in bar form, they're in

285
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,680
Speaker 1: turn going to have to turn around and melt it

286
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 1: down themselves. Then whoever being bribe? Because what do they

287
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 1: call it when they stamp gold? I think it's called hallmarks, okay,

288
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 1: because it would definitely have that hallmark on it to

289
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,680
Speaker 1: indicate where it was from. And I would be a

290
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,640
Speaker 1: little and I guess if you're willing to take a bribe,

291
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,160
Speaker 1: you don't really care where it came from. But that

292
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,680
Speaker 1: could cause a lot of a lot of alarms to

293
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 1: go off if you then turn around and try and

294
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 1: pass that off. Do you think that was something that

295
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 1: was documented, Like do you think they have records in

296
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,000
Speaker 1: the places that they were stolen from that these specific

297
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,040
Speaker 1: gold bars were stolen they you know, it just depends.

298
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,600
Speaker 1: I mean if the records survived the war or not.

299
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:51,840
Speaker 1: A lot of buildings got destroyed. It seems like the

300
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 1: sort of thing you would destroy if you were taking stuff.

301
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,600
Speaker 1: You might, yeah, but I mean if if if something

302
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 1: is stamped, you know, such and such bank Shanghai, China,

303
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,040
Speaker 1: now then that's that's kind of a giveaway. Yeah. Yeah, Actually,

304
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,320
Speaker 1: the hallmarks do do play a small part in our

305
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,280
Speaker 1: story here in the future. Yeah. Yeah, well, let's let's

306
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,840
Speaker 1: move on to our next theory. It's real and somebody

307
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,000
Speaker 1: has actually found some of it. That's the Yeah, that

308
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,000
Speaker 1: is the theory. Yeah, there is some evidence for this theory,

309
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,199
Speaker 1: unlike our our the series and which are all kind

310
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,480
Speaker 1: of like not really much evidence, not really any evidence. Yeah,

311
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,480
Speaker 1: this is Roelio Rojas and we're gonna tell his story

312
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,719
Speaker 1: and it's kind of interesting. There's more information on this

313
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,240
Speaker 1: one because it was litigated in the nineteen eighties and

314
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,959
Speaker 1: nineties and so there's a fair amount of information available

315
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,840
Speaker 1: for this and people people testified in court and stuff

316
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,600
Speaker 1: like that, so there's a legal documentation. Yeah, yeah, there was,

317
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,399
Speaker 1: there was a lawsuit. Rohelio Rojas was a locksmith in

318
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 1: Baggio City, the Philippines, which is on the island of Luzon,

319
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,280
Speaker 1: which you know, for all of you who know all

320
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,120
Speaker 1: about the Philippines is where Middla also is. I think

321
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,840
Speaker 1: it's the most populous island in the Philippines. And again

322
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,000
Speaker 1: I was that was too busy research this to research

323
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,000
Speaker 1: stuff like that. He besides being a locksmith, was also

324
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,359
Speaker 1: a coin collector and a treasure hunter. In he met

325
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,159
Speaker 1: a man named Albert Futagami in Bagio City who was

326
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,560
Speaker 1: a fellow treasure hunter and they became friends. Fuchigami was

327
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,840
Speaker 1: the son of a Filipino woman and a Japanese soldier

328
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 1: and uh Eventually Fuchigami took Rhelio into his confidence and

329
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,679
Speaker 1: told him his father had drawn a map identifying the

330
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,160
Speaker 1: location of one of the treasure trows of your Monster's gold. Yeah.

331
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 1: He also around the same time met this other guy

332
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,760
Speaker 1: who has an unpronounceable name who claimed to have served

333
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:49,760
Speaker 1: as General Yamashta's interpreter during World War two. Shibo Okuba Okubauba. Yeah,

334
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,360
Speaker 1: that sounds about right. He told him that this interpreter

335
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 1: said that during the war he had been taken to

336
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,880
Speaker 1: some tunnels controlled by General Yamashta in order to get

337
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,160
Speaker 1: some silver to pay for food for the troops. And

338
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 1: he said he saw boxes of various sizes. It contained

339
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 1: gold and silver, and also he saw a golden Buddhist

340
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 1: statue which was at a convent very very close by.

341
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,359
Speaker 1: And uh, so, with the clusive he got from this

342
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 1: guy and the map, that he got from Puchigamy. He

343
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 1: partnered up with Fuchigami and they hired some laborers to

344
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 1: search for the treasure. They got a permit and everything

345
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 1: for it. You're supposed to because it was on government lands,

346
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,720
Speaker 1: they're gonna be looking. Oh yeah, that would be important. Yeah,

347
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 1: it kind of would be. Uh. In nineteen seventy, they

348
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,240
Speaker 1: began digging in up near the Baggio General Hospital in

349
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 1: Bagio City, and after seven months of searching and digging,

350
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,959
Speaker 1: they broke into a system of tunnels underground. You know,

351
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,920
Speaker 1: that's a good thing, would be exciting. Yeah, And inside

352
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 1: that the tunnel they found wiring and radio's band at swords, rifles,

353
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,680
Speaker 1: and a human skeleton wearing a Japanese army uniform. Yeah.

354
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 1: Not to be fair enough that that was so uncommon

355
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 1: for Japanese soldiers to have tunnels, right, yeah, not really

356
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: fairly common. Yeah yeah, so mean, yeah for hiding in

357
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 1: that kind of natural cave systems are great for that. Yeah.

358
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if this was a natural cave system

359
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 1: or what. Okay, I presumed it was a natural cave,

360
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 1: even unnatural, I mean that was that was a pretty

361
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: solid part of their warfare. Strategy wasn't it was tunnels,

362
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 1: I think. I think a lot of armies do that. Yeah,

363
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,679
Speaker 1: so it's not yeah yeah, just because the tunnel excess

364
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 1: doesn't mean treasure. It doesn't mean it was there for treasure.

365
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,640
Speaker 1: But they spent about a month in this tunnel though

366
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 1: actually it was a whole series of tunnels, and they

367
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,160
Speaker 1: explored and they didn't find any find anything. And then

368
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 1: Rojas got himself a metal detector and went around and

369
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 1: got himself a strong signal. In one place, they dug

370
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 1: a little bit and they hit concrete and they hammered

371
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 1: through the concrete. I'm not sure how long it take

372
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 1: to break through, but we probably, yeah, could. They found

373
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 1: a room below below the tunnel, and inside this room

374
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,959
Speaker 1: they found a gold buddha, a solid gold buddha, yeah,

375
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,439
Speaker 1: which according to Rojas, about three feet in height. It was.

376
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 1: It was really heavy. It took ten men to get

377
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,199
Speaker 1: it to the surface. That you had to use a

378
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 1: chain block, hoist and ropes, and then they rolled it

379
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 1: on logs through the tunnels apparently, and rouse guests was

380
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 1: probably about a metric ton and he told his men

381
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: to take it to his house and put it in

382
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 1: the closet. Wait a second, I know, Wait a second.

383
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 1: It takes ten guys to haul this out of the cave.

384
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, yeah, then take it to my

385
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 1: house and put it in the closet. Yeah, how do

386
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 1: you get the rolling lodge through your house? This is unspecified. Yeah,

387
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,919
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, this whole part, this part of this,

388
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: the of his story mystifies me. Well, there's there's other

389
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,959
Speaker 1: parts that mystify you and then mystify me too. But okay,

390
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 1: he did manage to persuade the persuaded jury to believe

391
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 1: his story. I know. But yeah, I gotta be honest

392
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: with you. The thing that mystifies me is that he

393
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: was a treasure hunter who somehow didn't have a metal detector,

394
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 1: Like he had to go out and say, oh, I'm

395
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 1: gonna go get a metal detector. Yeah, but in my mind,

396
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: like treasure hunters, the staple of treasure hunting is metal detector.

397
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones never had a metal detector on. He wasn't

398
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: a treasure hunter. Yeah, he was, he kind of was.

399
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: He was an adventurer, he was an archaeologist. He was

400
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: an archaeologist. He had better reason to have the metal

401
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 1: detector and he didn't yeh. He had an interesting style

402
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 1: when it came to archaeology. Yeah, just go and steal

403
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: some stuff. Poked the walls. Yeah, sorry, we just we

404
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,360
Speaker 1: just got way off on the side there. Yeah. Yeah.

405
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: Back at the back to Rojas Helio, about fifty ft

406
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: from where Buddha was, it was a big stack of boxes.

407
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: There were stacked five or six high, open area over

408
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 1: an area six ft wide and thirty ft long roughly.

409
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,479
Speaker 1: And he came back the next day and opened one

410
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: of the boxes and it contained twenty four bars of gold,

411
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 1: and he didn't open any of the other boxes. I

412
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 1: got this weird. Well, yeah, and I got this from

413
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: he gave He actually died before this whole thing went

414
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: to trial, but he gave a deposition before and so

415
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: this is from the courts documents. So this is this

416
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: is from the mouth of Jelio. Yeah. Yeah, if that

417
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 1: seems a bit odd, I mean I would be if

418
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: I saw a pile of boxes, I would open them

419
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 1: right up. Maybe there would be snakes in one though,

420
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: that's a good point, so I wouldn't open run. You

421
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 1: opened one and it was like the right door, right,

422
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 1: it was show the right door so you just stay,

423
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 1: you don't open all the rest of that makes total sense.

424
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: I know. That's why I am the one of us

425
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: that keeps finding all the treasure and don't one gets

426
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 1: a bit by snakes. Yeah, I screaming like a little girl.

427
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: Yeah about him several weeks later, and they don't specify

428
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: exactly in the court documents, he returned because he wanted

429
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: to seal the tunnel closed, and so he was going

430
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: to use dynamite to plastic closed for safe keeping of

431
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 1: the treasure. Right, he returned to shut it. He took

432
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: the twenty four bars of gold then, and also some

433
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: sam restaurats and bayonets and other souvenirs. And some weeks

434
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: went by after that. This is, by the way, they

435
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: found the Buddha and the gold on January. So this

436
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: is about this is in February when he's blasting his

437
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: shut western the whole shut. And some time went by

438
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: and he sold seven of the gold bars, and he

439
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: was looking for a buyer for the golden Buddha, and

440
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: his plan was to raise funds to go back and

441
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 1: get the rest of the gold bars, which you know, okay,

442
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: that's a strategy. Yeah, I guess sell sell a small

443
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: amount of treasure to fund getting the rest. Yeah, I

444
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: got it. Could they'd be heavy, you would need a

445
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: lot of Yeah. In April sevente she he had showed

446
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: the Buddha to two other people, and then he showed

447
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: it to a third buyer, a guy named Joe Oyahara,

448
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: who said he was interested, and he said he would

449
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 1: come back in several days with the million pacos as

450
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: a down payment. After he left, Roehus got curious about

451
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: the Buddha. He took a closer look at and he

452
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: found out that the head was removable, So he got

453
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: the head off of it, and he looked inside and

454
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: there was a compartment and said inside the Buddha that

455
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,239
Speaker 1: was filled with stones which looked like uncut diamonds. So

456
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: he scooped me out. He said, they're about two handfuls

457
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: of uncut diamonds inside the buddha. If you put the

458
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: head back on, put the diamonds I guess in a

459
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: bag and put them in the closet next to the buddha. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah,

460
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: this guy's got a great safe system. Yeah, I know.

461
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if it took ten dudes to carry

462
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: the bood out. It's not exactly gonna walk up, but

463
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: the bag of diamonds, the bag of diamonds I would

464
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: have taken out in my backyard and buried or something. Yeah,

465
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 1: I think. So, you know, we've searched in your I mean,

466
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: we helped, we were digging for treasure. It's it's booby

467
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: trapped by the way, so don't go near and don't

468
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: go near it. Yeah. So four days after Joe Oihara

469
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: came over to look at the Buddha, at two thirty

470
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: in the morning, eight men from the Criminal Investigation Service

471
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 1: and the National Bureau of Investigation came pounding on the

472
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: door and demanded to be let in, and they said

473
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: they had a search warrant. So after Roejus opened the door,

474
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: these eight guys come inside. They are wearing military uniforms

475
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: and they've got Joe Oihara with them, uh, And they

476
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: showed him a document that they said was a search warrant.

477
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: And the soldiers were beat on Rohaus's brother with their

478
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: rifles and made the whole family get on the floor.

479
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: And then when they left, they took the buddha, also

480
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 1: the diamonds, the remaining seventeen bars of gold, the samurai swords,

481
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,239
Speaker 1: a piggy bank belonging to the kids and and his

482
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: wife's coin collection, so that they they cleaned pretty much

483
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: cleaned him out. Yeah, so Roehus reported it to the

484
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: media and also the local police. He also went to

485
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 1: this judge who he knew was just name was Peo

486
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: Marcos and he apparently was related to Ferdinand Marcos. I

487
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: guess at one point Rojaus used to work for him

488
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: and that's how they knew each other. And also Marcos

489
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: judge Marcos was the guy that he wants to to

490
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: get the permit to dig on stay lands. I forget

491
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: to mention that, uh, he had noticed Marcus his signature

492
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: and the search warrant that the police had showed him,

493
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: and he asked why he had signed his search warrant,

494
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: and Marcos said they had no choice because Ferdinand Marcos

495
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: had ordered it and said he had ordered the confiscation.

496
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: The whole pretext for them coming into the house is

497
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: Joe Oi Harris companion had claimed he was seen the

498
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 1: illegal gun in the house, so he he filed the complaint.

499
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: But this guy apparently had connections to Marcos also, So

500
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: anyway we'd have gotten back to Marcos that there was

501
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: gold and a Buddha and all this stuff. We all

502
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: know who Ferdinand Marcos is, but I don't know that

503
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: all of our listeners do. She might want to want

504
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: to let some people know who we're alluding to. Yeah,

505
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 1: good point. Ferdinand Marcos was president of the Philippine I

506
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: believe from nineteen sixty nineteen eighty six. I know he

507
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: was definitely he was deposed in x Yeah. He he

508
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: eventually became, you know, supreme dictator and all that stuff.

509
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: Lots of human rights abuses. Eventually there's a revolution in

510
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: nine six and he was ousted and he and his

511
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: wife Emelda of the eight hundred shoe collection Marcos. So, yeah,

512
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: they want to political asylum in America and they wind

513
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: up living in Hawaii. And that's how we've got all

514
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: of this because the lawsuit that you're referencing for this

515
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: material is was filed in Hawaii. Yeah, it was. Judge

516
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: Marcus also appeared angry, according to Roja, said he had

517
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: reported the case of the police and the media and

518
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: said as a result, he would likely be killed. Yeah,

519
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: so Rojas interpreted that as a threat. So he went

520
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,959
Speaker 1: into hiding for a little while, and then, uh, not

521
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: too long after that April ninetee, the military deposited a

522
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: buddha's statue with the city court in Baggio City, apparently

523
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: the same one this stance. So what did they do?

524
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: They put it out front or they took it they

525
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: turned it in that I don't know. I guess that

526
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: the court doesn't really say why, but they basically took

527
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: it in there and said, here's just here's his Buddha

528
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: back because in response to all the unwanted attention that

529
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: he'd been calling this Buddha. So, yeah, we confiscated it,

530
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: but here it is back returns. Yeah, we thought it

531
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: might be a dangerous exactly smiling Buddha. Yeah. Ten days

532
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: after that, Rojas went to the courthouse in Baggia City

533
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: where the Buddha was and it was accompanied by a

534
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: couple of bodyguards and a lawyer and miscellaneous reporters, and

535
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: he examined the buddha and he said it was not

536
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: the same Buddha that was in it that was taken

537
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: from his house. He claimed its color was different, he

538
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: said it had different facial features. Claimed the head was

539
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: also not detachable. And so I'm not so sure about

540
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: this because I've seen pictures of his brother took pictures

541
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: of him with the gold Buddha. Two pictures of their

542
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: kind of low resolution, but you can see the Buddha

543
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: pretty clearly. I don't know if you guys ever saw

544
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: those pictures, And there are also there's also one from

545
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: from the trial we'll lead up to the trial of

546
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: a Nel de Marcos looking at a Buddha. It looks

547
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: like the exact same Buddha to me. He claims that

548
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: the facial features are different, so it looks like the

549
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: exact same. But do you know that the one that

550
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: Amel de Marcos is in front of isn't the one

551
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: they were trying to return to him? That is that? Yeah,

552
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: so that's the one that they were trying to return

553
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: he claimed was not the same as his original one. Right,

554
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: But I I've seen the pictures from before the Buddha

555
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: was confiscated and then after, and they looked exactly the

556
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: same to me. Yeah, well, I mean he did, you know,

557
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: he made some claims about markings on it from tests

558
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: that were running stuff, and I know that that got

559
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: refuted and there's some there's some controversy around that itself.

560
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: But but the fact that the head doesn't come off

561
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: if he said the head comes off, that's kind of

562
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: an important thing. Now, that would be kind of an

563
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: important thing. But the thing about it is is, um

564
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 1: he could have been faking that too, because he had

565
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: a hard time getting the head offer. He originally didn't

566
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: didn't know for quite a long time that the head

567
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: came off. Yeah. Yeah, and guys are hauling it around.

568
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: I've got a guess they knocked it over at least

569
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: once by accident. You would think the head would have

570
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: popped off. Maybe I took him he had to whack

571
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: the head with a piece of with the like a

572
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: two by four. Yeah, okay, yeah, so he could have said, yeah,

573
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: it comes off really easy, and then oh, it didn't

574
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: come off. Okay, okay. I thought initially that the head

575
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: was just loose. No, no, no, it actually it was

576
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: hard to get off. But the I mean, the pictures

577
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: do show that the head was off in one black

578
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: and white pictures. Yeah, so that at least we know

579
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: it did actually come off. It did actually come off

580
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: on the original Buddha. And and again the one, the

581
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: one that they left at the courthouse, appeared to me

582
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: to be the same. Yeah, I mean, they look pretty similar.

583
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: It's hard to tell with resolution, you know photo resolution

584
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: of the time. If the color is actually different and

585
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: it's a different angle and there's like rope around the

586
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: one in the black and white pictures versus the one

587
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: in the court, there's not the rope, so it's hard

588
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: to tell. You know, lines that your eyes make without

589
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: the rope, they might not make. It's hard to tell.

590
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: I don't know. I personally think the one with the

591
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: rope that you can still see enough features, like, look

592
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: at the same they're not No, I'm can at it

593
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: right now. Um, if you look at the one that

594
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: he has, it's got you know, the line on your

595
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: face that runs from the corner of your nose, the

596
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: nasal labial fold. Yes, that one. I don't know how

597
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: the hell you know that. But I I actually, as

598
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: as I've looked at the photos and I had to

599
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: pull them up real quick just to double check, I

600
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: kind of think that they look different. I mean, I,

601
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: as we were saying, I see differences in in the face.

602
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: It's hard to tell for me just because it's I

603
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: I think the the they hit me as two different images, right,

604
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: But I can't say we'll see in this image it's

605
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: this and this issue is that because the resolution is

606
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,479
Speaker 1: solo in the original two, and they're from a different

607
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: angle than any of the other way and the style

608
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: at the time there were there very stylistically similar. They're

609
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: from the same era. Yeah, they're very very similar, but

610
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: there's I see differences in the face. So I I, personally,

611
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: I don't through the same one just based on what

612
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: I've seen in the photos. I don't know what His brother,

613
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: Jose who was there at the house when the police

614
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: showed up and took the took it away. He's he

615
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: testified years later. Of course he he looked at it

616
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: and stantestified that it was the same Buddha. That's what

617
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: his brother said. So yeah, yeah, so I confused. Well

618
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: they do. They look very very similar. Yeah. Anyway, back

619
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: to Rohelio at this point, he wants to a kind

620
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: of a difficult three year period. He was arrested, beating,

621
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: tortured with electric shocks. They wanted to know, They wanted

622
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: to sign papers first of all, saying that the two

623
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: Buddhas were the same, and they also wanted to know

624
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: where he'd found it because obviously and the gold bars. Yeah,

625
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: and he refused to talk. They let him go, but

626
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: then he was re arrested. He managed to escape. He

627
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: wanted to hiding for a while, eventually was caught again. Uh.

628
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy three, he was convicted of possession of

629
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: an illegal gun and unlockfably firing a revolver into the air.

630
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if that was true or not. I

631
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: think that the government had it in for him at

632
00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 1: this point in time, and so it might have been

633
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: entirely bogus. But he went to jail for about a

634
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 1: year and a half and said that he would continue

635
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: to be beaten and interrogated in prison. When he arrived

636
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: home from prison in November in nineteen seventy four, back

637
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: to Bagio City, he went by the treasure site and

638
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: he noticed soldiers were standing outside tents near the near

639
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: the hospital, right at the treasure site where they had

640
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: done their excavation. Yeah, that's where they found the tunnels. Yeah.

641
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: Rohilo at this point kind of figured they probably had

642
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: found his treasure and and so he gave up on

643
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: pressing his claims and didn't do anything more about it

644
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: until after Marcos was deposed in Then he filed suit

645
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: in March in Hawaii against against both of the Marcus

646
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: is for theft and also for human rights abuses. A

647
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: lot of the information I'm gonna show you he comes

648
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: from that comes from the trials. As far as him

649
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 1: seeing soldiers at the dig site, the treasure site, there

650
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: were two witnesses that backed that up. They both worked

651
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: at the hospital and they both said that they saw

652
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: a lot of soldiers and laborers digging and around back there,

653
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: and they said they saw them carrying out boxes and

654
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: crates that appeared to be extremely heavy. It would be

655
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: like take like four to six guys to carry one

656
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: of these boxes. Uh. And and one of them said,

657
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: actually one time that he saw a box get dropped

658
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 1: in a broke open and a bunch of yellow bars

659
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: came out of it. So that kind of that's that

660
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: kind of backs up Julio story. Another guy named Robert

661
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: Curtis on a mining and refining business, and he said

662
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: he was brought over to the Philippines at the behest

663
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: of Marcos because because he wanted him to melt down

664
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: a bunch of gold bars to get rid of the

665
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: hold the hallmarks and cast new bars out of them.

666
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: So he actually did some work for them and building

667
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: and building a smelter. I don't know why they had

668
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: to call it get him. There had to be somebody

669
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: in the Philippines was capable of doing this. I'm wondering

670
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: if it was the scale. Yeah, yeah, because apparently, Yeah,

671
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: he saw he saw a room in the presidential Palace

672
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: that was like forty by forty ft that was stacked

673
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: to the ceiling with gold bars. He claims, that's a

674
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: pretty big scam. That's a nice lot. That's nice. A

675
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: little bit of gold there. Yeah. Although you know, if

676
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: anybody that knows about the gold market, that much gold

677
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: would flatten the economy globally, you couldn't. You couldn't just

678
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: dump it on the market all at once. You have

679
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: to dribble it out a little bit of a time. No,

680
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: I mean, we've assigned this this random figure or value

681
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: to gold. There is nothing special about gold. It's just

682
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: this thing we all covered so it we give it

683
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: this value, and when you flood the market with it,

684
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: it's not worth anything anymore. So you're not gonna be

685
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna sell the gold and become super rich. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

686
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 1: you can. You're just gonna have to dribble it out

687
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: a little of the time. It's probably a good way

688
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: to attract less attention to Oh yeah. There were several

689
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: other people who testified at the trial that they had

690
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 1: also been shown rooms full of gold bars at both palaces.

691
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: They had a summer palace in a regular palace, and

692
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: of course, yeah, one guy said he still see this

693
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: had been taken blindfolded and taken to a warehouse and

694
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: then because he had questioned the existence of all the

695
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: gold and so they he saw this huge stack of

696
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: crates and and then they opened one up and it

697
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: they was pulled to gold bars. Although he said that

698
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: they were rather crudely made, so these might have been

699
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: some of the resmelted ones, and he said they were

700
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: they had finished like an orange peel. Yeah yeah, that's

701
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: not normal. Yeah yeah, I know. So between all these

702
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: between all these people testifying at the trial, that wasn't

703
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: not to convince the jury that Rohelio roe House was

704
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 1: telling the truth. And they certainly believed all the human

705
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: rights and stuff too, so they awarded there was plenty

706
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: of evidence of that. Yeah, oh yeah, I know, they

707
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: awarded the Royal House of State and the Golden Buddha Corporation.

708
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: I forgot to mention the bullet and the Golden Buddha Corporation.

709
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: He got a friend in the US to incorporate, uh,

710
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: and then he signed his interest in the treasure over

711
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: to the Golden Buddha Corporation, and Rohelio was a shareholder

712
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: in the corporation. Yeah, and so and so maybe that

713
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: maybe that's easier to sue an American court if it's

714
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: an American corporation versus a Filipino guy. Yeah, it sounds possible.

715
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: In nineteen six, the jury awarded the Royal House of

716
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,720
Speaker 1: State and Golden Buddha twenty two billion dollars plus interest

717
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: plus interest. Yeah, what the interest? It came to over

718
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: forty billion dollars. Largest judgment of history. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Unfortunately,

719
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: the Hawaiian Supreme Court reverses a couple of years later.

720
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: On the ground set. Even though there was a stack

721
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: of boxes, nobody actually knows what was in them. It's

722
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: it's a reasonable assumption to assume that they were all

723
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: full of goals, since one was. But actually, but like

724
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: I said, it could have been snakes. It could have

725
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: been snakes, It could have been dirt, It could have

726
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: been food that had long since rotted away. It could

727
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: have been could have been, it could have been stacks

728
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: of unicorn horns. Those are actually worth more than gold, though,

729
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: So this that would have been. This stood. That's good,

730
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: that's a good point. Uh. So the Supreme Court ordered

731
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: a new hearing to value just the golden Buddha and

732
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: the seventeen bars of gold, and also a few other

733
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: things like the coin collection, keep a piggy bank and

734
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Uh and so like And by the way,

735
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: I read the course, I've read the whole opinion, and

736
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: it's pretty obvious they think the claim of the solid

737
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: gold Buddha as purebs Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like when they

738
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: talk about the Buddha, they they call it the gold

739
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: Buddha in it, you know, and quotes the gold Buddha.

740
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: So it's it's yeah, they obviously are unconvinced. But the

741
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: jury it doesn't really matter. The jury was convinced, I guess,

742
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: so from a legal standpoint, that's all that really matters.

743
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: In the next go around, they were awarded thirteen million

744
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,479
Speaker 1: in change for the Buddha and the gold bars and

745
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: and all the other stuff, and the Rohsa state was

746
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: awarded six million dollars for the human rights abuses because

747
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: because at this point Rhalio was dead. Yeah, I forgot

748
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: to mention he died in Yeah, unfortunately that kind of

749
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: really well, he there was some stress that happened, I know. Yeah,

750
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: two years after he died. This is this would have

751
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: been his brother. Jose commenced an action at the Regional

752
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: Truck Court in Baggies City asking for release of the

753
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: buddha since they still had it in their custody all

754
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: these years later and they wanted it to have it

755
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: back as a memento to Rohelio. And are they going

756
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: to use it as like a headstone? Yeah, yeah, I

757
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: don't know. I just put it in the yard and

758
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: the headstone would be kind of cool. Yeah, nobody will

759
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: ever get rid of that memo. Yeah. At the initial hearing,

760
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: he testified that he had been present when the rating

761
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: party took the buddha out of his out of the house,

762
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: and the court told him to take a look at

763
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: the Buddha that they had there and say is this

764
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: the same one? And he said it was. And then

765
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 1: at a second hearing, Jose said he test untestified under

766
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: oath that the Buddha that had been at Rohelio's house

767
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: was made of lead or copper, but reporters had added

768
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: that the Buddhas made of gold, so it might have

769
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: been the press actually puffed this up a little bit. Yeah.

770
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: He also said that Rohelio Rojas knew it was made

771
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: out of lead or something and not gold, but he

772
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: said that wrote Rojas had claimed it was gold because

773
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: he had been bribed by opposition politicians to do to

774
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: do this. Yexplained that to me, the opposition politician bid

775
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 1: yea in the Philippines. Yeah, they've been bribed by politicians

776
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: to say this, to pump the story up. Oh, to

777
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: then throw dirt at Marcos essentially, okay, okay, got it.

778
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: Didn't didn't make that connection right away. So that's sort

779
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: of sort of some of his other claims, I guess. Oh.

780
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: And by the way, as a counterpoint to that, that's

781
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: the same trial record also had a letter to the

782
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: judge sent by Daniel Kaskar, who was the attorney for

783
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: Golden Buddha and the Rojasa State, and his letter said

784
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: that Emelda had met with Jose Rojas and offered him

785
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: money to petition the court for the brass Buddha and

786
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: then false identify it as the same one as have

787
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: been taken from Roelio. I know it's yeah, and that's

788
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: that's I guess that's possible. Uh So the buddha that

789
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: was in the court custody had been brass all along,

790
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 1: brass or lead or something. It wasn't to me like

791
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: it's painted. And if it really weighed as much as

792
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: they as they said it, dude, then I'm thinking lead. Yeah. Yeah,

793
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: But so that that was the case, right, it wasn't

794
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: the one that wasn't it was in court custody, wasn't

795
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: in fact full gold. It wasn't gold. Did Rojas find

796
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: imatched his gold or at least some of it? He

797
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: might have unsolved mysteries. Did an episode about this before

798
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: he died, and he was He had a lot of

799
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: FaceTime on camera and he seemed sincere and believable. But

800
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: I still have a few problems with this story, such

801
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: as he spots a huge pile of boxes near the buddha,

802
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: but he didn't bother opening a single one until the

803
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: next day. Well, that's a lot of work to get

804
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 1: the boot out. Yeah, that's true, I guess. I mean,

805
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: you know, the buddha could have been blocking the way

806
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 1: to the boxes, right, They had to move it before

807
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: he get to the boxes, and by the time they

808
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: got it out, he was like, coming back tomorrow, could

809
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: be Yeah again, I would be. I would be hugely

810
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: curious about what was I would too, but you know,

811
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: I would step over the three foot tall bood. I

812
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 1: would think that's just me. Yeah. He left the box

813
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: of gold bars four gold bars sitting in the tunnels

814
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: for several weeks, so we're talking like three or four

815
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: weeks before he came back and retrieved them and then

816
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: blasted the tunnel ship. Would you do that? No, you

817
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: either continue to pull stuff out or you shut it

818
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: up right away exactly. But he might not have He

819
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: might not have known what he was going to do.

820
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: He may have thought, I can continue to pull this

821
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: stuff out, suddenly realized he was out of money and

822
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: selling the gold he had wasn't going as quickly as

823
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: he expected. I mean, people do this stuff in business

824
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: all the time. Oh, don't worry about it. We'll have

825
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: this totally take care of in like two days, No

826
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 1: big deal. Three weeks later they still have nothing done.

827
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 1: It happens, Well, yeah, I don't know. It's just I

828
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: still feel like it would have it would have driven

829
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: me crazy. I mean, I found if I found this

830
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: tunnel and I know that there's at least twenty four

831
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: gold bars sitting there, and that anybody could just one

832
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: of the people that I that one of the laborers

833
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: that I had hired, for example, knows where it's at,

834
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: he could go back there with his buddies and steal

835
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: all that gold. But he never opened the boxes in

836
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: front of those people. But maybe that's why he didn't

837
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: open the boxes. Maybe you wanted to. That's that's possibility. Um.

838
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: But still, if those people saw the pile of boxes,

839
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: then I wouldn't you wouldn't you? I mean, you're not

840
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 1: really here. They are one of the labors. You see

841
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: the pile of boxes, aren't you going to go and

842
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: probably want to open yourself? Yeah? You know most people would. Yeah.

843
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: So I'm just saying this is from if I were Hlio,

844
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: I would not be able to sleep knowing that this

845
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 1: tunnel was open and that the people that have had

846
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: seen the pile of boxes could go back at any

847
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: time and take or knowing that some random do could

848
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: just come along discover the opening and go in there

849
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: and discover and take all this stuff. I wouldn't be

850
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 1: able to sleep, and yet he wants several weeks just

851
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: leaving all the gold in there. I okay, So I think,

852
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: as we've done in the past, we're presuming that the

853
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 1: crew is with him and in there working the entire time,

854
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: and therefore intimately familiar with everything that's going on, when

855
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: in fact, they were hunting around at a bunch of

856
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: freaking caves for weeks on end. And it is possible

857
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 1: that once he found the concrete bit that he had

858
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: to break through, that he was like, oh, well, I

859
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: don't want to pay anybody else to do it, I'll

860
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: just swing a sledgehammer for a day and broke through

861
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: it himself and then said, you know, hired these how

862
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: were ten men or whatever it took, said hey, I

863
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: have this thing in this tunnel. I want you to

864
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 1: pull out, and they just completely different than the other crew,

865
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: maybe unawares walk in, Oh yeah, this thing is heavy

866
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: and all it out and have no idea what they're

867
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: walking into. Well, you know that's true enough, but still

868
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: there's still the possibility of some random dude could discover

869
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,919
Speaker 1: the cave right there. I'm just saying that it may

870
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: not have been a situation where the workers knew what

871
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: was going on to then get the idea of, well,

872
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back on my own and see

873
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: what it really is. Yeah. Maybe not, I don't know,

874
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: but I still I still would not have left that

875
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 1: pile of gold sitting there. No, I mean I don't

876
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,919
Speaker 1: think anybody would. He'd have to be crazy to do that. Yeah,

877
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: pretty much, I think so. Yeah. Next, he was trying

878
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: to sell the Buddha to raise funds to finance the

879
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 1: removal of the boxes of gold bars in the tunnel.

880
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: But he sold seven gold bars. That was that should

881
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: have dedit him a big punch of money. Yeah, unless

882
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: he got swindled. Well, it didn't know the value of

883
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: the gold he was getting, or it wasn't high quality goals.

884
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's a bunch of oars here. Well

885
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure he had to sell it

886
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: at a discounted price. I'm sure he didn't get full

887
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 1: gold value for it. But it may not have been

888
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 1: twenty two or twenty four carrot gold. It could have

889
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: been low quality gold, which therefore is worth less money. Yeah,

890
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: but still it would have been worth quite a bit.

891
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: It would have been worth charge. But then you if

892
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: if you say it's low quality, and then you're selling

893
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: it at a cut rate, and then you don't really

894
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: know what that cut rate should be. So your gold buyer,

895
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: who's kind of a swindly little guy, knocked you down

896
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: even more. You could be getting you know, ten or

897
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: twenty percent of what the value of what you're selling is.

898
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: I mean, it still should have been enough to fund

899
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: some more some more hauling out of stuff. Actually, since

900
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, my question is is like why not just

901
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: do a couple of bars a day? You just walk

902
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: over to your okay, right, I mean the impression I

903
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 1: have is it was close to his home. You just

904
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: walk over there and throw a couple in a box

905
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 1: and you know, put it over your shoulder and walk

906
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: home and that, Like what's the finance need? I mean

907
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: I have to do it in one fall swoop. Of

908
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: course you need the financing. But yeah, you know what

909
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: I would do is what I would have done is

910
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: I would have just hired, you know, hired some laborers,

911
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: people that were trustworthy, didn't know we were't going to

912
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: kill me for the gold or anything. And they say, look,

913
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: you help me with this. I'll give you each a

914
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: couple of bars of gold. Yeah that works. Yeah, that's

915
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: what I would have done. But hey, the one thing

916
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: that I I like the idea of just going and

917
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: packing out a couple of bars a day, except that

918
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 1: gold bars, even when they're little ones, they're freaking heavy. Yeah,

919
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: I think, and I'm I don't know the exact number,

920
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna ballpark it between fifty two seventy pounds

921
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: is what I want to say. A bar of gold wayspack.

922
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: But that means you can carry one or two, maybe three,

923
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: not three in a backpack. A very physically fit person

924
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 1: could pack three a day. But you pack that for

925
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: five ten miles, that's a that's a workout and a half. Yeah,

926
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: So that that would be better shut in daunting task

927
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: while you're gaining money for you're not you know, it's

928
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: like the best gym workout, except for free. I mean,

929
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: actually you're getting paid a lot of money for it.

930
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: Because that was the other thing, right, is that the

931
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: cost of gold per ounce was like almost nine hundred

932
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: bucks at that point, right something. It was more than

933
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: it had climbed up away. So there I think it

934
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: might have been. It might have been more like five

935
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: or six hundred even back. But even then, if you

936
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: if we're saying it's fifty or seventy pounds, right, we're

937
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: saying it's like four hundred ish ounces you're getting. I mean,

938
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: if you're if you're getting even five hundred dollars per ounce,

939
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 1: that's incredible. And even if you're only making of that,

940
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: you should be able to easily finance with one bar

941
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,240
Speaker 1: getting the rest of that stuff out of it, especially

942
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: since labor of the Philippines is really pretty cheap. Yeah,

943
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: and then you just say you know, or again you

944
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: just they here's a bar. Yeah, everybody way. Yeah. The

945
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: next thing I want to know is who do you

946
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: sell the bars too? He sold seven bars, supposedly, his

947
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 1: lawyers never asked him. They've never asked him because, after all,

948
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: that guy would have been a great witness, because it

949
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: would have established that that Rohalio did indeed have some

950
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 1: gold bars in his possession. Also, they couldn't find somebody

951
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 1: to lie about it, even if not much of a lawyer.

952
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, So evidence regarding the gold bars, it's really

953
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: pretty thin when you come down to it. Another thing

954
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: that I was I really kind of scratched my head

955
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 1: over is that his partner and friend, al Albert Fusugami

956
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: was never heard from. They didn't track him down, They

957
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: didn't track down any of the hired laborers. Perhaps that

958
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,240
Speaker 1: helped out in their little dig and had them testify. Well,

959
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: it may have been that they didn't know who the

960
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: labors were. Well, possibly because they're just guys he hires,

961
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 1: and maybe Albert's dead by now. I don't know. Still,

962
00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: I'm kind of I'm kind of surprised that they were

963
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: not to find any of those people and that they

964
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: would have been That would have been something that they

965
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 1: would have been able to just do, like a deposition

966
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: in the Philippines for right. I mean, the trials are

967
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: happening in Hawaii. It's not cheap to fly people places.

968
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: It's not not everybody wants to fly places, So that

969
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: would have been right. That's what we're saying is we

970
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: could have just gone, could have gone in the Philippine

971
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: and just done some positions. Okay, I want to be

972
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: clear statement on the record, So long story short, I

973
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: am I really don't think Rohlio found anything other than

974
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: a lead Buddha because the people, the people who actually

975
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: saw the boxes, and we don't know how many people

976
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: other than saw the boxes, But any of those people

977
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: that saw it were never never part of this whole thing.

978
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 1: They never testified, So we only have Rohelio's word that

979
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 1: there were this there was a huge pile of boxes,

980
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,479
Speaker 1: and so I'm kind of thinking maybe he only found

981
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: the lead Buddha and nothing else. Well, and furthermore, there

982
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: were there were a lot of people who testified that

983
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 1: they saw the boxes, but at Marcos's palaces, right, Yeah,

984
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 1: some people said they saw boxes, not necessarily also saw

985
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: just stacks and stacks, right, So there's really no evidence

986
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: to suggest that Marcos stole that stuff, right that at

987
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: the hospital, yeah, yeah, which seems to be supported. Yeah,

988
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,760
Speaker 1: But also in fairness, if you just kind of figured

989
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: out that this guy who's been claiming all this stuff,

990
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: that's where he claimed to have been digging, it might

991
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: warrant a dig just to see even if it was

992
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 1: a lie, you know, you wouldn't know. You just say, oh, yeah,

993
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: this guy said he found a bunch of gold here,

994
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 1: so we'll go dig there. Yeah, right, what's the harm

995
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: you have a lot of military Yeah, send those guys. Well,

996
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: I mean, there were other other people involved. Two besides

997
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: Roelio so somebody else might have might have squealed. Yeah, yeah,

998
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: that's why you didn't hear from them. Yeah, I could be.

999
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: Let's move on to our last series. So then, do

1000
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: you guys have anything more to say about Rohelio? Do

1001
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: you think you found it? Do you think he do

1002
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,439
Speaker 1: you think he didn't find it? No? But I can't

1003
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: believe this is our last theory. You've left one out.

1004
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: Oh oh, Mr Gold, Yeah, I can talk about Mr Gold. Well,

1005
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: we'll talk to Mr We'll talk about Mr Gold after this,

1006
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: because Mr Gold is mostly just for fun. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

1007
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 1: back there last day, Mster's Gold is just an urban legend.

1008
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: In favor of this, I have to say a lot

1009
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: of people have been looking for the treasure for decades

1010
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: now and you haven't found a trace of it, and

1011
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: so you would think somebody would have found something by now.

1012
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: It does seem suspicious. And also, why would the Japanese

1013
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 1: send everything to the Philippines. It would have made it

1014
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: more really, it would really would have made more sense

1015
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,439
Speaker 1: to ship at overland, say that Shanghai or Korea, which

1016
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: are much closer to Japan, and go from there. Um.

1017
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: And if it did wind up and it was too,

1018
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: if it was too risky to take to Japan on

1019
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: ships from the Philippines, assuming it had wound up in

1020
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: the Philippines, and why not just use submarines. Well, the

1021
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: other the other thing that I wonder is if if

1022
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,760
Speaker 1: they're putting everything on a boat and they're taking it somewhere,

1023
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:00,760
Speaker 1: why wouldn't they take it to the main land, Because

1024
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 1: they controlled huge chunks of the mainland at that time,

1025
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: they could have taken it to Korea, which is kind

1026
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,280
Speaker 1: of in a straight line. It's one of the shortest

1027
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 1: water distances to Japan from the mainland, and then you

1028
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: make the run from there, because that's that's your narrow

1029
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: one that that's what I'm saying, that would have been

1030
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:26,399
Speaker 1: more sense. Okay, yeah, uh yeah. Shanghai is actually it's

1031
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: it's probably it's it's a little further away, but still

1032
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: it's a lot hell of a lot closer than than

1033
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,919
Speaker 1: the Philippines. Yeah, so I don't I don't really see

1034
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 1: why they would ship all that stuff to the Philippines

1035
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: to begin with. It also seems to me that if

1036
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: it did wind up in the Philippines, getting on that

1037
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 1: loop back to Japan would have been a very high priority.

1038
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 1: Don't you think that would have been a and said

1039
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: they would have found a way to do at submarines whatever,

1040
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: you know, it would have been something. Yeah. Against this

1041
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: seria is it's been proven that the existence sub urban

1042
00:54:55,400 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: legends is itself an urban legend. Really, people don't just

1043
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: make stuff up. No, No, they never happened. Never happened.

1044
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: So you guys have any favorites. What's what's your favorite

1045
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,800
Speaker 1: theory to talk about. We're gonna talk about Mr Gold

1046
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: for a second because I came across this one and

1047
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: when I when I saw your notes, I was laughing

1048
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: that you had intentionally left out Mr Gold because he

1049
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: loves gold. Because his name is Mr Gold, which is

1050
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,919
Speaker 1: a pseudonym, would assume him be the right word. It's yeah,

1051
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: because we don't know who this guy is. He's the

1052
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: American Free Press dot net I believe it is, has

1053
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: been putting out his story. They put it out over

1054
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: the course of like six months or a year. Some

1055
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: guy who is an American citizen says he went down

1056
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: there and he found all the gold, and he hired

1057
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: a company to to excavate it and pack it out,

1058
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: and that company never showed. Years later, he gets some

1059
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: of it, and then suddenly the FED show up at

1060
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: his door because his name is on record with this

1061
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 1: other company, the one that never showed up, which, by

1062
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: the way, the name of the company is B I

1063
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 1: AM Incorporated, which the B I M is in capital letters,

1064
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 1: but if you look at it and you flip it around,

1065
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 1: because I do word jumbles all the time, it's M

1066
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,879
Speaker 1: I B as in men and black men and black incorporated.

1067
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: And uh so, now he's been detained by the US

1068
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 1: government because he's got, you know, a hundred trillion dollars

1069
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: worth of gold and he's on these trumped up mail

1070
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,439
Speaker 1: fraud charges. Is why he's still in jail. And it's

1071
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 1: in it's a it's a fun tale, and I'll leave

1072
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: it at that. Is it's just it's a really fun tale.

1073
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: But nothing of its even smells remotely of truth. No,

1074
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: not even slightly. Yeah, work of fiction is what I

1075
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 1: would say on that one. But it's it's it's one

1076
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: of the things that you find, it's one of the

1077
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 1: initial things you find when you start ching for this story.

1078
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: So that's why. Yeah, yeah, it does kind of out,

1079
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's obviously nonsense. So yeah, what do you

1080
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 1: guys think how many favorite theories. I don't think it

1081
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: actually exists. Yeah, I mean either, I don't think they

1082
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 1: would have taken the time. If they're looting jewelry and

1083
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: everything from everyone and it's full of precious gems, that's

1084
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: a lot of work to separate everything and then melted

1085
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: down and then pack that out instead of just chucking

1086
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: it in a box and packing it all out. I

1087
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: also think that, um, if soldiers are looting, they're probably

1088
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 1: gonna keep that stuff, a fair amount of it. Maybe

1089
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: not all right, They're they're gonna keep a cat. I

1090
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: think that supposedly this whole thing was was organized from

1091
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: the highest levels and so so it was like they

1092
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: did a fairly decent job supposedly. But again, you know,

1093
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: Steve's point is is totally right. You you just have jewelry, right,

1094
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: If you jewelry, you just toss it in a box

1095
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: or you know whatever, and it's it's even it's harder

1096
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 1: to trace at that point. I mean, you know, the

1097
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: number of super unique pieces of jewelry out there is

1098
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: because you don't you don't want to, you don't want

1099
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: to spend the time and effort It takes too for

1100
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 1: your people who you're employing to sit down and separate

1101
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 1: all of this. I mean, the Germans did this when

1102
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: they looted everybody, but they use slave labor to do

1103
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: that separation process. The Japanese didn't have a whole huge

1104
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: swath of that available, so that's a lot of effort

1105
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 1: on their part. Well, also, it just doesn't I mean,

1106
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: it just doesn't make sense that you would do that

1107
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 1: in the middle of a war. You Yeah, well, especially

1108
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: when you're in these small areas. Yeah, they did, and

1109
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 1: they would have. They would have probably actually not all

1110
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: of it would have been melted down into gold bars,

1111
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: but they would would have come across gold bars and

1112
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: banks and like that. Yeah. But yeah, I just can't

1113
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 1: see it. I'm shipping into the Philippines. It makes no sense,

1114
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: I agree. Yeah, alright, sorry everybody. I guess it doesn't exist.

1115
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: Well that's about it for this week, unless you guys

1116
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 1: have anything more you want to say about your Muson's gold.

1117
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah all right. Well, if you guys, if you have

1118
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: any thoughts about it out there, listener person, you can

1119
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: call person. You know. I like that designation. They are

1120
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 1: now not listeners there. Listener Person's right. If you want

1121
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: to find a place to download our episodes because obviously,

1122
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: since you're listening you obviously I don't have a clue

1123
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: head of downloader episodes, but you can find it. You

1124
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: find every episode on our our website, which is Thinking

1125
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: Sideways podcast dot com. You can leave comments, you can

1126
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 1: check our links because we have links to a lot

1127
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 1: of these mysteries, and of course you can listen to episodes. Uh.

1128
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: You can also find us on iTunes. You can subscribe,

1129
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: and hopefully you will also leave us a review. Even

1130
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,919
Speaker 1: more hopefully it'll be a good review. That will be nice.

1131
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: You can also stream us from pretty much anywhere. There's

1132
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 1: billions and billions of apps for that, right, Yes, that

1133
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: is a real number. Yeah. You'll also find us on Facebook.

1134
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: You can like us and follow us. Yes, please like

1135
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: us please, And of course we're on Twitter. We're a

1136
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 1: little different on Twitter. We're thinking sideways were cooler. Yeah,

1137
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: and last of all, if you want to, if you

1138
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 1: want to send us a message at all, you can

1139
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: email us at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com.

1140
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: We also are launching a new project this week. We

1141
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: are um. We are officially on a site called patreon um.

1142
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 1: If you go to patreon dot com slash thinking sideways.

1143
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 1: You can pledge to donate a dollar amount per episode

1144
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 1: that we release. That is, it's kind of like we're

1145
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: doing the OPB membership driveship drive and will never all right,

1146
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: but there are some pretty cool incentives if you donate,

1147
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: you know, more than X number of dollars per episode,

1148
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 1: and there's a video that explains everything on there. It's

1149
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: a video of us. It is a video of us,

1150
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: So go ahead and go over there if you think

1151
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: that might be something that you'd be into. Yeah, when

1152
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: we give them kind of break it down, and Patreon

1153
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 1: on their site as well, gives all the good particulars

1154
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 1: of how it operates and how it sets up, so

1155
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 1: it's pretty straightforward. That's that's voluntary, of course. Yeah, so

1156
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: check that out or there will be a wink link

1157
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 1: on our website. Not a wink, I'll put a wink. Yeah,

1158
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 1: there's a wink. They're all winks. We have lots and

1159
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 1: lots of winks on the website. Okay, guys, Yeah, well

1160
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 1: this one done. All Right's see you next week folks. Later, guys. Bye, guys,