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Speaker 1: Also media, h what's got the plague? My Robert Evans,

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Speaker 1: host of Behind the Bastards, the sickest man in podcasting.

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Speaker 1: I have some sort of non COVID thing.

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Speaker 2: I did take the test.

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Speaker 1: Uh, so I have been I've been mainlining, you know,

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Speaker 1: I said, I've been sober lately. But now I am

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Speaker 1: a theorough flu addict. I don't even mix it into

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Speaker 1: my drinks anymore. I just pour the powder straight out

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Speaker 1: and rail that shit, you know, for you, that's the

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Speaker 1: good stuff. Our guests who just congratulated me on my

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Speaker 1: theorough flu addiction, mister Miles Gray, how are you doing,

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Speaker 1: Miles Gray?

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Speaker 2: I'm great, I'm great. Thank you for having me back.

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Speaker 2: Shout out to the bTB what do you call a

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Speaker 2: BTV nation, your little bad Shout out the little bastards.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the little bastards. Sure, yeah, shout out my

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Speaker 1: little bastards out, shut out all. Shout out all the

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Speaker 1: little bastards out there, love y'all. And I'm yeah, I

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Speaker 1: just uh, I'm bracing myself for you again, the ups

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Speaker 1: and downs and recording with you where I'm like what

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Speaker 1: hah and then like crying inside for the rest of

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Speaker 1: the day. You said that, it just made me think

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Speaker 1: if we'd gone with my original plan for this podcast

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Speaker 1: and made it all about Saddam Hussein, we could call

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Speaker 1: our fans the Husseiniacs. Oh oh yeah, see I just

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Speaker 1: thought about that now. But that's a good one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Miles, were you in the room when Robert pitched

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Speaker 3: the show on the phone when he was running through

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Speaker 3: what sounded like a wind tunnel. Were you in the room?

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Speaker 2: I must have been.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean that was so such early days and like

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Speaker 2: we were all working on all this shit together. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I feel like yeah, and even I mean I remember

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Speaker 2: all the fucking process of coming up with a title

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Speaker 2: and the art and all that shit. Shout out my

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Speaker 2: boy Allan, you know, for the iconic cover art.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Alan Lee.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Miles, are you been a good day?

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Speaker 2: You happy dude? Just oppose a ship?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm having a fucking good day.

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Speaker 4: Man.

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Speaker 2: My little boy has two little teeth coming in. I'm like, wonderful. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I gotta go. I gotta go and get my fucking

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Speaker 2: head kicked in by whatever tale or fuckery you're gonna do. Nothing.

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Speaker 1: Nothing goes with a nice peaceful day like a story

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Speaker 1: of one of the most nightmarishly abusive people I have

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Speaker 1: ever read about my life. See, God is punishing me

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Speaker 1: with a sickness for taking such pleasure and making you

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Speaker 1: unhappy Miles.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh you okay. Well look I'm as someone

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Speaker 2: who was went to school where they tried to put

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Speaker 2: the fear of God in me, but it didn't work.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm kind of split. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: I want to talk ill of a man of God? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: to see have you heard of this man of God?

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Speaker 2: A fellow named TB. Joshua. First of all, no, And

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Speaker 2: when Sophie hit me up and was like, hey, you know,

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Speaker 2: we might be talking about this or that, and then

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Speaker 2: she's like, okay, actually Robert Robert's gonna write something on

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Speaker 2: TV Joshua. I didn't google it because I'm like, what

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Speaker 2: the fuck is this? I thought it was like, did

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Speaker 2: he give a bunch of people tuberculosis?

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Speaker 1: And that would be the fun version of this if

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Speaker 1: he was just like the typhoid Mary if tuberculosis, Johnny

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Speaker 1: apple seed of tuberculosis. It's like, Oh, who's this TV Joshua,

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Speaker 1: Well that's whole TV Joshua giving everybody TV.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like when he coughs, look at his little

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Speaker 2: handkerchief he coughs into, and tell me if there's blood.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I was like, And then this morning, out

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Speaker 2: of a morbid curiosity, I'm like, let me just see

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Speaker 2: what the top line description of this person was. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, no, yeah, we got a pastor

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Speaker 2: in Nigeria, and I don't know what the rest is,

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Speaker 2: but I know how evangelical things operate over there, and

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Speaker 2: they can be pretty wild.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is one of those, Like you know,

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Speaker 1: there's like Africa for whatever reason, like bastardry over there

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Speaker 1: does not usually go as viral as like the very

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Speaker 1: worst people from like I don't know Europe, United even

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Speaker 1: like South America, Asia.

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Speaker 2: But like TB.

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Speaker 1: Joshua is not just He's not just a bastard. He

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Speaker 1: was like, up until his death very recently, one of

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Speaker 1: probably like the twenty or thirty most influential religious figures

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Speaker 1: alive on the planet. Massively influential Pentecostal preacher millions not

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Speaker 1: just in Nigeria and not just in West Africa, but

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Speaker 1: all over the world, in Southeast Asia and Europe unit

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Speaker 1: millions and millions of followers, huge, huge spoke in the

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Speaker 1: international Pentecostal community very very important.

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Speaker 2: Guy. Yeah, I feel like the religious bastards, they're able

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Speaker 2: to fly under the radar a little bit longer than

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Speaker 2: everybody else. Like if you're not like some dictator, despot,

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Speaker 2: kind of despotic leader, you're like it's like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: like when you get the cover, when you're covered in

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Speaker 2: the blood of Christ. Yeah, it is one of those.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's this mix of I think they get protected

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Speaker 1: from like members of the same faith, some of whom

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Speaker 1: obviously a lot of times the people who do expose

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Speaker 1: them are also members of the same faith. But like

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Speaker 1: that's probably one reason why sometimes it takes while to spread.

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Speaker 1: And I think also you get among like atheists or

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Speaker 1: even as we'll talk about Pentecostals are kind of in

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Speaker 1: an extreme sect of evangelical Christianity from like more moderate

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Speaker 1: centrist you know, Christians and like the West. I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously Pentecostal movement is huge in the United States, but

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Speaker 1: even in the United States, I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: like people who are Christians, but you know they live

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Speaker 1: in like the East Coast, do they live in the

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Speaker 1: West Coast or like just like big cities. They may

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Speaker 1: not know how wild. Some of that shit gets right,

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Speaker 1: and they may kind of write off stories about these

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Speaker 1: guys as just like, oh, well that's just you know,

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Speaker 1: normal in that chunk of the faith or whatever.

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Speaker 2: And TB.

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Speaker 1: Joshua was not, to be honest, like, I have a

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Speaker 1: lot of issues with Pentecostal Christianity, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: the people who were trying to expose him for years

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Speaker 1: were other Pentecostal pastors. But he just got ignored for

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Speaker 1: in a lot of what he was doing. Now, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who enabled him were other Pentecostals. Don't

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Speaker 1: get me wrong.

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Speaker 2: Side note, I feel like, you know, based on all

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Speaker 2: the fuck real that's going on, you could have a

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Speaker 2: like a sister podcast, Behind the Pastors.

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Speaker 1: Behind the past Yet we can do an episode every

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Speaker 1: week for the next year.

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Speaker 2: I'm not joking every fucking week. There's some freak somewhere

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Speaker 2: who's like, yeah, this youth pastor is colledge, child porn

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Speaker 2: or some other dark shit, and I'm like, man, we're

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Speaker 2: still we're still acting like these are the people that

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Speaker 2: are above or beyond reproach. But yeah, anyway, Behind the

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Speaker 2: Pastors look Behind the Pastors.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we could also do a whole podcast series on

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, on the Catholic Church in like the seventies.

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Speaker 1: You know, even if we just skicked to one decade, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we could really So here's the hard facts of this

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Speaker 1: guy's life. Timatope Balligan Joshua was born on June twelfth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, in a town called Araghiti a Coco

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Speaker 1: in the southwest coastal state of Ondo in Nigeria. Arigedi

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Speaker 1: a Coco is very poor and it is unlikely that

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Speaker 1: his family had access to any kind of like really

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Speaker 1: meaningful wealth at any point. Stretching back in recent memory,

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Speaker 1: he is very poor. Everyone around him is very poor.

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Speaker 1: He grows up in like a background of pretty desperate poverty.

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Speaker 1: Now he does seem to have a fairly strong family,

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Speaker 1: which is good. It gives him a leg up on

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who are like like don't have

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Speaker 1: that benefit obviously, But this is this is a guy

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Speaker 1: who's going to have to fight for any amount of

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Speaker 1: like wealth that he wants to have. His family are Yoruba.

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Speaker 1: That is an ethnic group in southwest Africa that encompasses

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Speaker 1: the largest chunk of niger Congo language speakers. Like many

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Speaker 1: Yoruba families TV Joshua grows up. He has both Muslim

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Speaker 1: and Christian relatives in his close family, and one thing

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Speaker 1: people will say about him when he's a pastor is

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Speaker 1: that a lot of evangelical pastors in Nigeria are very

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Speaker 1: anti Muslim, and he was. He was, not nearly as

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Speaker 1: much as is Commons, not nearly as much. We'll get

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Speaker 1: into he's going to like he's going to like throw

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Speaker 1: Muslims under the bus at a certain point in his future.

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Speaker 1: But he does have like a lot of Muslims in

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Speaker 1: his family, and so for a while at least, he's

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Speaker 1: a lot better on some of that stuff than a

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Speaker 1: lot of other people then a lot of other like

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Speaker 1: pastors Christian pastors in the area. His father, Kolaole, was

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Speaker 1: well educated and made a living translating the Bible, so

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Speaker 1: from a fairly early age, he's both taught that it's

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Speaker 1: important to learn how to read and specifically to be

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Speaker 1: able to read the Bible, like this is something that

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Speaker 1: he's going to do obsessively from a very young age.

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Speaker 2: Oh God, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: He is big on that. His father dies when he's young,

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Speaker 1: and he is I think when he's like twelve or

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Speaker 1: something like that, and he's raised after that by his uncle,

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Speaker 1: who is a Muslim Man. Again, he's going to be

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Speaker 1: kind of more tolerant than a lot of people on

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Speaker 1: that sort of situation. He grows up speaking a mix

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Speaker 1: of Yoruba, English and pigeon. His English is never going

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Speaker 1: to be considered very good, in part because he doesn't

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Speaker 1: finish secondary school and he has limited formal education in general.

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Speaker 1: What time he does spend in school is at Saint

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Speaker 1: Stephen Anglican, which is a religious primary school. His teachers

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Speaker 1: called him Little Pastor because he was obsessed with the

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Speaker 1: Bible from a young age and preached to his classmates

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Speaker 1: it's not a red flag. That's not a red flag

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Speaker 1: at all. Preaching to your kid.

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Speaker 2: Preachers are the freakiest fucking creatures on Oh my God.

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Speaker 2: There's like, yeah, there's like this vibe of like you're

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Speaker 2: just showing, you're just regurgitating shit the adults are saying

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Speaker 2: around you. But they do it with such passion and conviction.

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Speaker 2: You're like, oh, I don't know, maybe you fucking God

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Speaker 2: is talking to you, but please you were nine years old.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and it's you know, take some of this

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Speaker 1: with a grain of salt. I think the stuff about

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Speaker 1: him being called little pastor right here often enough and

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Speaker 1: is consistent enough that I believe it. We don't have

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Speaker 1: great sources on his early life, like there are all

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Speaker 1: fan websites and the like.

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Speaker 2: Oh wait, so like, first of all, your research methodology

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Speaker 2: for this is what, Like, I don't imagine there's like

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Speaker 2: a book on like all the shitty things to you.

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Speaker 1: I should read a book on him. Now there's good.

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Speaker 1: The best info on this guy's actual crimes comes from

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Speaker 1: the BBC. BBC So the BBC can be a problematic

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Speaker 1: entity in some ways, but they have a division of

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Speaker 1: the BBC called BBC Africa Eye, which reports on Africa

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Speaker 1: that does extremely good work. There are some of the

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Speaker 1: only people, for example, reporting on like war crimes by

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Speaker 1: the Camerooney and government. They do really good work, and

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Speaker 1: they did a long series on this guy, So there's

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Speaker 1: and interviewed a lot of people. So there is good

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Speaker 1: reporting on his crimes at this point. There's just not

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Speaker 1: a whole lot that we can absolutely verify about his

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Speaker 1: early life.

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Speaker 2: Right, because it's always some form of like myth building

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Speaker 2: or praise or yeah, just bias towards like how great

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Speaker 2: he was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the anecdots we get are all shit that his

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Speaker 1: fans pulled out of like speeches he gave during like

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Speaker 1: religious ceremonies, right, because that's like a big thing you're

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Speaker 1: talking about, Like when I was a kid, I did

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Speaker 1: this and this, and I saw, you know, the spirit

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Speaker 1: of God came into me and whatnot. That's where you

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Speaker 1: get a lot of these details, which is like there's

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Speaker 1: a good duck if you people want to know the

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Speaker 1: way in which these kind of pastors massage and just

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Speaker 1: outright invent backstories in order to like make themselves kind

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Speaker 1: of fit in with some of these common evangelical narratives.

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Speaker 1: There's a documentary I always recommend called Marjoe, and it's

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Speaker 1: about a guy who started out as a child pastor.

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Speaker 1: His parents may had him preaching when he was like

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Speaker 1: four or five years old. He was like doing marriages

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Speaker 1: at like age four or five or so, and it

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Speaker 1: was all a scam for money, right. He was like,

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Speaker 1: I never believed in God, and his parents abandoned him

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Speaker 1: as soon as he was old enough that it wasn't cute, right,

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Speaker 1: So you can't make money once he's an adult. There's

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Speaker 1: nothing special about an adult pastor. So they just fucking

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Speaker 1: bounce and he like takes a film crew and this

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Speaker 1: is in the United States and all these like evangelical

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Speaker 1: revivals in the seventies. It's a really good documentary. It

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Speaker 1: won an oscar. I'm recommend it to everybody. Marja one

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Speaker 1: of my very favorite movies. Also, he grows up to

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Speaker 1: be an actor and is on the A Team. So

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Speaker 1: Marginal was, yeah, he's a bad guy in one episode

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Speaker 1: of the A Team.

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Speaker 2: I think yes. So there you got praise Christ praise

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Speaker 2: through him.

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Speaker 1: All things are possible.

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Speaker 2: You can starting, Yeah, you can be a bad guy

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Speaker 2: on the A Team type cast.

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Speaker 1: Probably it was this guy black. No, no, no, he's a

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Speaker 1: white guy. He's a white guy.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay was Look maybe it wasn't God. It

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Speaker 2: might have just been a white supremacy that guy either.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to conflict the two, but it was

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Speaker 2: one of the two.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, anytime you get to hang out with Barakas,

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Speaker 1: that's the hand of God.

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Speaker 2: That's the hand of God. Yeah, oh yeah, most if

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Speaker 2: you could. Yeah, he'd like, can I wear one of

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Speaker 2: your chains? He's like, yeah, man, oh yeah, raised Christ baby.

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Speaker 1: So the website who owns Kenya, which I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: about the providence of, but it does seem to have

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Speaker 1: a lot of detail on this guy. They have an

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Speaker 1: article on him titled the Man of God who stayed

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Speaker 1: in his mother's womb for fifteen months, which gives you

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Speaker 1: an idea of the kind of claims he makes. And again,

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Speaker 1: this is stuff he's saying during speeches. He like claims

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Speaker 1: that he was his mom was pregnant with him for

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Speaker 1: fifteen months, and so he's a miracle baby. I guess

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Speaker 1: when you're that holy God needs an extra like six

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Speaker 1: months to really make sure you get finished.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you need you need that way, Yeah, man, you

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Speaker 2: need to just the what is that the fourth and

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Speaker 2: fifth trimester?

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Speaker 1: So one eight babies? Yeah, roughly, I'm not great at math. Folks,

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Speaker 1: don't come in here and correct me if that's wrong.

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Speaker 1: He better have been walking and talking and shit yeah

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Speaker 1: that long coaching. No, he'd better come out knowing how

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Speaker 1: to read God.

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Speaker 2: Damnah into my taxi. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I do find that very funny because I even

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Speaker 1: heard that claim that, like, yeah, I took fifteen months

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Speaker 1: to be born.

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Speaker 2: What are you stunting on people?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Is that really a brag?

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Speaker 2: Thing like, yeah, you're like, you're clingy? Yeah, are you?

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Speaker 1: They giving ship to kids who were born early. Oh

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Speaker 1: you came out after eight months, not nearly as holy

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Speaker 1: as me.

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Speaker 2: Baby, I'm a fifteen month there. Yeah, my mom tried

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Speaker 2: to get rid of me. I said, no, I'm doing

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Speaker 2: some Bible study in here. I'm not ready yet.

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Speaker 1: On the weekends he goes to just just goes to

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Speaker 1: like nick you wards and makes fun of the babies.

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Speaker 2: Ah, look at you, look at you. Couldn't be me,

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Speaker 2: couldn't be me. I came out. I came out twenty

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Speaker 2: six pounds.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I almost didn't come out at all.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna stay in there.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I said, I would have physically killed my

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Speaker 2: mother if I say it in there, I kept growing.

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Speaker 2: It would have been bad the person. Maybe, Oh that's funny.

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Speaker 1: So later in life he would also claim that as

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Speaker 1: a child, he became aware that his coming had been

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Speaker 1: foretold in prophecy.

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Speaker 2: For more than one hundred years.

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Speaker 1: I've never found what this prophecy is supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: Maybe someone was like, yeah, there's going to be a

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Speaker 1: huge fucking baby someday. Is that in the Book of Revelations,

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Speaker 1: And that boy was me so anyway, This bullet proof

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Speaker 1: source cites statements from Joshua that as a child, he

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Speaker 1: would read the entire Bible every two months. Quote, every

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Speaker 1: two months, I would have read the Bible from Genesis

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Speaker 1: to Revelation. It was the only subject that interested me

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Speaker 1: in primary school. In exams, I scored ninety nine percent consistently,

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Speaker 1: whereas I performed woefully in other subjects. My excelling and

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Speaker 1: Bible knowledge affected the other subjects where I performed poorly.

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Speaker 1: So basically, he was so good at the Bible that

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Speaker 1: his brain just didn't work for anything else.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I can't. I can't do I can't even do

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Speaker 2: one plus two. Yeah, so I'm so christ it up

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Speaker 2: up here now.

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Speaker 1: What I do disbelieve is a claim that he made

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Speaker 1: that one day, whilst at school, a madman entered his

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Speaker 1: class carrying a weapon. The type is not specified.

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Speaker 2: Quote.

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Speaker 1: Everyone ran away, but he managed to calm the madman

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Speaker 1: down through prayer. From that day onwards, he knew there

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Speaker 1: was something special in him. I'm gonna need more details.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how old is he?

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Speaker 1: I think what this is like when he's in like

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Speaker 1: like middle school.

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Speaker 2: Maybe and a man came through with a weapon, just

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Speaker 2: a weapon, just a weapon.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, praise he praise him out of hurting anybody.

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing. I mean, it's West Africa. Maybe he's a cutlass,

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Speaker 2: you know, so it's a it's a machete.

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Speaker 1: Maybe, I mean, machetes are very certainly, very accessible, but

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Speaker 1: who knows. My actual guess is that this did not happen.

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Speaker 2: Right right, right, Yeah, he's acting like he's Kevin Spacey

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Speaker 2: and the Negotiator. He's Chris Saviian or Shocks.

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Speaker 1: So shortly before starting secondary school, his father died and

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Speaker 1: again he's raised by his uncle. He drops out of

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Speaker 1: school pretty soon after this, I think because he has

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Speaker 1: to get a job to help take care of the family.

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Speaker 1: And he spends years working a series of odd gigs,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of people and who come from his

354
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Speaker 1: level of like wealth and stuff in Nigeria and that

355
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Speaker 1: part of Nigeria. One of his jobs is a poultry attendant,

356
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Speaker 1: which mostly consisted of scrubbing chicken shit with his hands

357
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Speaker 1: and putting it in bags to be turned into fertilizer.

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Speaker 1: My my new favorite Kenyan news and culture website says

359
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Speaker 1: this job was so demeaning that no Nigerian did it.

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Speaker 1: It was mainly done by Ghanians. Wow, shots fired at Ghana.

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Speaker 2: Your neighbor's next door.

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Speaker 1: There's all in these articles. There's a lot of shots

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Speaker 1: fired at Ghana.

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Speaker 2: Mya, it's wild. I've been to Ghana and there there

365
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Speaker 2: is like this sort of back and forth or they'll

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Speaker 2: be talking. They talked, They just chat shit about each

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Speaker 2: other like Nigerian m I don't know, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Write them. This happens a regional Yeah, exactly. Your neighbor is.

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Speaker 1: Texas and Oklahoma, shit, right, like Nigeria and Ghana, right

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Speaker 1: right right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So at some point in his early twenties, he experienced

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Speaker 1: a three day trance in which God visited him and

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Speaker 1: told him I am your God. I am giving you

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Speaker 1: a divine commission to go and carry the work of

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Speaker 1: the heavenly Father. This is the inciting incident of the

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Speaker 1: TV Joshua story. In the interest of trying to put

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Speaker 1: together a more complete picture of the man, I opted

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Speaker 1: to read a propaganda by what I thought was a

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Speaker 1: propaganda biography by one of his followers. Its title is

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Speaker 1: Rejoice and See what Happens Next? The Life and Times

382
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Speaker 1: of TB. Joshua. Now, this book does not give us

383
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Speaker 1: the life and times of TV Joshua. It's basically a

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Speaker 1: big brochure for like going to visit his church. And

385
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Speaker 1: we will talk about why a little later that he

386
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Speaker 1: wanted people doing that.

387
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Speaker 2: Just marketing. It is marketing material.

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Speaker 1: It's all marketing. You get very little on the guy's life.

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Speaker 1: It is kind of interesting to note that the preface

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Speaker 1: of this book opens by saying TB. Joshua has shown

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Speaker 1: every indication of following this anointed path. He is worthy

392
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Speaker 1: of careful study and emulation, and then complaining TB. Joshua

393
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Speaker 1: has been made out to be controversial and has become

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Speaker 1: the subject of persecution, especially by fellow religious leaders. This

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Speaker 1: is puzzling to me. I have been in his presence

396
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Speaker 1: and I can say that he is disarmingly humble, gentle,

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Speaker 1: and a generous man.

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Speaker 2: So that's good.

399
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Speaker 1: Glad, glad we're opening with like a real unbiased account

400
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Speaker 1: of this.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's so humble. Yeah, well he sounds great

402
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,800
Speaker 2: so far. He sounds like he's you know, he's cooking

403
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,960
Speaker 2: months talked about his miracles. Yeh, yeah, he topped down

404
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Speaker 2: a man with a machete, or who could have been

405
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Speaker 2: a bazooki, any kind of weapon.

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Speaker 1: We have no idea.

407
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Speaker 2: Yeah, he just had an enriched plutonium maybe in his hand,

408
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,359
Speaker 2: who knows, but he stopped it. Okay, look, this doesn't

409
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Speaker 2: just get to the bastard. I don't even know this

410
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Speaker 2: guy sounds.

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Speaker 1: Cool, Robert, Ye, so far he's great.

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Speaker 2: Praise Christ.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's he starts preaching at some point. He's

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Speaker 1: probably in his like early to mid twenties when he

415
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Speaker 1: starts preaching, and this seems to have been a fairly

416
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Speaker 1: like humble start. There's some grainy footage that exists, apparently,

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Speaker 1: I've heard it reported on. I haven't seen it, that

418
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Speaker 1: shows him somewhere. It started out with something like a dozen,

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Speaker 1: maybe twenty followers under a bamboo marquee in the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. So he starts out small, but his his

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Speaker 1: flock grows fairly rapidly. And the mid nineteen eighties is

422
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 1: a pretty terrible time for most things, except for cocaine

423
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Speaker 1: and being a Pentecostal preacher in Nigeria, and especially for

424
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Speaker 1: the latter, it's basically the best time ever and this

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Speaker 1: merit's a little bit of explanation. First off, on Pentecostalism.

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Speaker 1: If you've ever seen a video, if you're wondering, like,

427
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,720
Speaker 1: what the fuck is he talking about when he says Pentecostals,

428
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Speaker 1: Because I do think a lot of like even a

429
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Speaker 1: lot of people who are Christian right, but who are

430
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Speaker 1: like a fairly mainstream like kayaks Christianity and like normal

431
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Speaker 1: you know, believe in evolution, live a normal modern life.

432
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Speaker 1: They just like you know, they're Christian whatever. May not

433
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Speaker 1: know much about this. It's something you really encounter a lot,

434
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Speaker 1: particularly if you grow up in kind of the Deep

435
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Speaker 1: South and rural areas. It's gotten more common obviously as

436
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Speaker 1: we've gotten older. If you've ever seen videos of like

437
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 1: some wild seeming Christian religious ceremony where people are chanting

438
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 1: in tongues or screaming, flopping around on the floor looking

439
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 1: like they're seizuring, that's a Pentecostal service. Almost certainly. There

440
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,479
Speaker 1: are some other denominations where you'll get stuff like that.

441
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 1: In popular culture, they're often called snake handlers. This is

442
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: because a lot of Pentecostals used to pass around venomous snakes,

443
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,479
Speaker 1: and basically the idea is if you get bitten like

444
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 1: it means that you weren't faithful enough. And also if

445
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 1: you get bitten and die, it means that God just

446
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 1: wanted you to die.

447
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was his plan.

448
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 1: That was his plan for you. A lot of times

449
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 1: they're using non venomous snakes and it's like it's a show,

450
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 1: right right, And a lot of times they'll like defang

451
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,719
Speaker 1: the snakes, especially for like the pastor, because the pastor

452
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 1: you want to like, could you imagine? It's like, but

453
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,400
Speaker 1: I don't have any wound on my hand the fruit Jesus, Yeah.

454
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,880
Speaker 2: Where's that? Wait? I didn't give you the stunt snake pastor?

455
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 2: Oh fuck? Oh fuck, Okay.

456
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 1: There's definitely motherfuckers who died from that, Like oh.

457
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there has to be. I mean, I feel

458
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,320
Speaker 2: like there's there were headlines about like some snake handling

459
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:02,120
Speaker 2: preacher who you know, somehow who'd a thought his handling

460
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 2: of a copper head whended with his demises.

461
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,159
Speaker 1: It was also common you still find this sometimes, but

462
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 1: like people would drink strych nine during these ceremonies. Again,

463
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: it's like a you know, if you have faith, you'll

464
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 1: know God won't kill you unless it's your time.

465
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

466
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,439
Speaker 1: Now, Pentecostals are not the only Christian sect to do

467
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 1: snake handling. It actually probably started. I think the first

468
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 1: snake handlers on the Christian historic record are the second

469
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: century o Fights, which is a Gnostic sect. I do

470
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 1: not know much about them, but I came across that

471
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 1: when I was looking up snake handlers, So yeah.

472
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: That's neat.

473
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,959
Speaker 1: Pentecostalism has its origins in the eighteen hundreds with radical

474
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 1: evangelical movements that focused on faith, healing, and the imminently

475
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 1: coming end times. One description you'll hear a lot is

476
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 1: that regular Christians kind of as modernity comes in, they

477
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,479
Speaker 1: stop believing in miracles, or at least not miracles as

478
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: a thing that like people can can incite, you know,

479
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 1: through their direct faith, you know, but as a thing.

480
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: You know, maybe it's a thing that happens sometimes, but

481
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: you're not You can't make miracles by like praying for

482
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 1: God and stuff, Right, that's not a thing. I think

483
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: a lot most people believe, but Pentecostals do, and this

484
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 1: obsession with miraculous happenings is a hallmark of that kind

485
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 1: of worship. Pentecostal churches started to spread in Nigeria around

486
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: the turn of the nineteen hundreds. It was really given

487
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: a shot in the arm by the influenza epidemic. A

488
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 1: lot of early Nigerian Pentecostal preachers engaged in faith healing

489
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,719
Speaker 1: of influenza victims. They started out as kind of an

490
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 1: Anglican offshoot because obviously the Anglican Church is British, and

491
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: the British, you know, owned them in Nigeria for much

492
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: longer than Yeah, and Aghana, yes, and Aghana and yeah.

493
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 1: The breaks kind of between the Anglicans and the Pentecostals

494
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 1: became more defined in the twenties and they started, like

495
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: Nigerian Pentecostals started to affiliate with US based churches, more

496
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: like the Faith Tabernacle in Philadelphia. One characteristic of this

497
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: particular segment of Christianity is a near constant conflict with

498
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: medical sens. I'm not going to say that's every group

499
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: of Pentecostals, but it's very common to find Pentecostals who

500
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 1: preach against like at least certain kinds of modern medicine.

501
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 1: You know, faith is supposed to handle it. It's not

502
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 1: like an across the board thing like it is with thinking,

503
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: like Jehovah's witnesses. But it's not uncommon, and early Nigerian

504
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: Pentecostals were extreme, even to their British cousins in their

505
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: rejection of modern medicine. A lot of this is tied

506
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: into colonialism. I think a lot of it also has

507
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: to do with the difficulty of obtaining good medical care

508
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: in a lot of the areas where this is spreading.

509
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: A study in Pew Research Notes Originating in evangelical student revivals,

510
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: a wave of Pentecostal expansion spawns new churches in the

511
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies. The leader of this expansion is Benson Idahosa,

512
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: one of Africa's most influential Pentecostal preachers. Idahosa establishes the

513
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: Church of God Mission International in nineteen seventy two. In

514
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four, the Pentecostal umbrella organization Grace of God

515
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: Ministry is founded in eastern Nigeria. The Deeper Life Bible

516
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 1: Church founded in nineteen seventy five and soon becomes one

517
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: of Nigeria's largest Pentecostal churches, with an estimated three hundred

518
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand members by nineteen ninety three. So this

519
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: is a pretty rapid expansion and these are very big churches.

520
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,479
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's all line enough for that. Man.

521
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 2: The faith part is yeah, it's like I mean, because

522
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: there's already you know this culturally, there's a lot of

523
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 2: thinking that sort of goes beyond the bounds of like science, right,

524
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 2: So to even for these you know, these very opportunistic

525
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 2: sort of faith healers, to really get in on them,

526
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: be like, oh man, I just fucking believe.

527
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 6: Maybe that's all.

528
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And that's that's where Chibi Joshua is going

529
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 1: to stitch in.

530
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 2: So TB.

531
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: Joshua's church, which also began in nineteen eighty six, was

532
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: called Synagogue Church of All Nations or SCONE, and I

533
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 1: think the synagogue this is very common. I made a

534
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: comment once that like Christians reincorporate, some groups of like

535
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: particularly fundamental Christians like to reincorporate bits of Jewish religious tradition,

536
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: and like the abuse of Showfars, reincorporate was the wrong term.

537
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: People got rightfully frustrated. This is cultural appropriation, right, right, Yeah,

538
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: that's what's going on. And I'm guessing because I have

539
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: never heard of synagogue used outside of the tradition of

540
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: the Jewish faith.

541
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 2: So my guess is that stand for me, that's what

542
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 2: that would imply, Yes, ten times out of ten in

543
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 2: my mind.

544
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's that's what I'm guessing they're doing here.

545
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: So people will call it scone, and that's what we

546
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: will usually call it, because Synagogue Church of All Nations

547
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 1: is a bit of a mouthful, and in fairly short

548
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: order throughout the mid like mid to late nineteen eighties,

549
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: scone goes from dozens to hundreds to hundreds of thousands

550
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 1: of regular attendants. It becomes common for there to be

551
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: more than fifteen thousand people attending services at once in

552
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 1: a single day. Obviously, this necessitates the building of a massive,

553
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: like stadium sized church. You know, these are huge events

554
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: every time, and he's out there every day. Basically he

555
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 1: hears some of his disciples. A lot of appeal of

556
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: these Neo Pentecostal churches in Nigeria is the ability of

557
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: worshippers to witness and participate in miracles. Right, not just

558
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: that miracles are happening, but that your pastor is able

559
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: to call down miracles and you get to be right there.

560
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 2: And watch this shit.

561
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: You know, some of this there's some like cafe here.

562
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: Some of this is like what people get out of wrestling,

563
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: you know, right for real? Yeah, yeah, And it's not

564
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: coincidental that the massive expansion of these churches that are

565
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: all doing these very big and we'll talk about how

566
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: these look, these big like miracles shows, coincides with a

567
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: huge expansion in the availability of televisions for working class Nigerians.

568
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 1: Right that has hit like it it hits saturation by

569
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: the eighties, and so these preachers and not only that,

570
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: but it also becomes a lot easier to make your

571
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: own TV and get it on the air, right, So

572
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 1: all of those things kind of have to happen, and

573
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: that takes a period of time, but by the eighties,

574
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: all of those things are possible, and so any of

575
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: these preachers with big congregations have access to enough capital

576
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: to purchase cameras in airtime, which they use to air

577
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: slick videos of different ill people being miraculously healed and

578
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: miles you know what will miraculously heal our listeners.

579
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 2: I hope it's some kind of product. Yes, yes.

580
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: The only guarantee we make on this podcast is that

581
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: if you are sick, buy someone something that advertises on

582
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: our show, and you will be.

583
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: Healed of anything. Just rub it on your head.

584
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you cannot die if you purchase the products

585
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 1: that advertise on our show unless that was God's plan.

586
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: Unless that was God's plan.

587
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 2: Obviously obviously obviously.

588
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 3: We're dallas ridiculous ad transition, both of you.

589
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: We're back and we're thinking about how ematic unless that's

590
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: God's plan really really gives you a lot of you're

591
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: going away with anything with those words.

592
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but people, I.

593
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 3: Just you know, if it's really funny, please please send

594
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 3: us what what what that pops up?

595
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: Please it's really funny. Please, that's a good like parenting tip.

596
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: Can we go to the playground, daddy? If it's God's plan,

597
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: you know, if it's God's.

598
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 2: I mean, but that is the kind of ship like

599
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: super religious parents we'll say to like avoid the responsibility.

600
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: They're like, I don't know, I mean, maybe you didn't

601
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: maybe I forgot your birthday because that was God's plan. Yeah,

602
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 2: and you do.

603
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: It is like it's used very differently, but like it's

604
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: used a lot in the in the Muslim world as

605
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: like if you're like, hey, do you think you know

606
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: we'll be able to do this or this will happen

607
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: like you know inshallah, Right, which means like probably not.

608
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 2: I'm not looking go I mean, but you know, it's

609
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: the same thing people say that to their like yeah, man, yeah,

610
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: we'll see, we'll see what happens.

611
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: I'll never forget your birthday.

612
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you never Yeah, thank you.

613
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 3: You don't have the same privilege as Miles.

614
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: Wow.

615
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't remember my own birthday. Not after all

616
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: this THEO flu I've been dropping. Let me do a

617
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: that line of the of the peach flavor. Oh yeah,

618
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: why does he stuff?

619
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: Hey?

620
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 2: What's he snorting out of that bullet? Dude? It's kind

621
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 2: of fair.

622
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: Round bullet bullet power that opens the capillaries, gets the

623
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: N s A I DS into your system faster, straight

624
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: to the vein. Baby. Yeah, just just like cooking flair

625
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: the on apoo.

626
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: You're like, hey, hand me that dialysis to being really quick,

627
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tie off what.

628
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, we couldn't arrest him. There's no log against dejecting

629
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: the aflu in parting.

630
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: I don't know, there's no log. It's just freaking people

631
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: the funk out. It's fucked up.

632
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: So spectacle was always part of the deal at Scone.

633
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: Healing the blind is like easy ship, right, you can

634
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: have someone pretend that they're blind, right, and then they

635
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: can see. You know, it's super easy. But that doesn't

636
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: look exciting, right, What looks exciting? He would love to

637
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: have like parades of people who were missing limbs, like

638
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: roll in on wheel boards and stuff to get like

639
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: the healing touch and claim like their pain went away

640
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: or something. He would love to have people who had

641
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: like like skin lesions and stuff come in and then

642
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: they all fall off, right, and this kind of shit

643
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: like these are these are staged right, like they're using makeup,

644
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: they're doing all this kind of shit, but it works.

645
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: His flock goes from dozens to hundreds to tens of

646
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: thousands over the course of like the eighties to the nineties,

647
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: like it gets massive. There are two is wiping off

648
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: people's skin conditions. Oh yeah, yeah, that's a big one.

649
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: That's a bit And there's there's too many stories of

650
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: this time to count. So I'm going to focus on

651
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: one really well documented recent case. And I'm focusing on

652
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: this because this is someone who got arrested by the

653
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: Nigerian government for miracle fraud recently. But it gives you

654
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: an idea of how this industry is always worked miracle.

655
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 2: Wait, is that a law we have on all?

656
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 4: Oh?

657
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh no, we don't have that shit. You can,

658
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: you can. That's Nigeria is so far ahead of us

659
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 1: and that way.

660
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: They're like, no, you guys don't understand. These people are

661
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: gonna fucking bring down our entire society. Like if we

662
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: don't get that shit under control. Yeah, god damn, because

663
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 2: who's the guy who sells those fucking buckets, those end

664
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 2: time buckets?

665
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, fucking we did episodes on him, but I'm

666
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: spacing on his name right now. But yeah, the one

667
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: of the three lines in the story. Obviously he gets

668
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: away with a lot because of corruption in the Nigerian government,

669
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: because of bribing people. But there's also like the Nigerian

670
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: government has like passed laws and shit that I wish

671
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: we had in the US to try to limit some

672
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: of this stuff.

673
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 7: We're talking about.

674
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,959
Speaker 3: Jim Baker, aren't we Jim Baker?

675
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: I'm like, we did.

676
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: We did seeveral episodes.

677
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yell those buckets though they look like absolute shit.

678
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: Like I have. I have to say, the Nigerian government

679
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: fails in a lot of ways. The US government has

680
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: also failed to contain this stuff. But they have also

681
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: attempted to limit it in more ways than we have,

682
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: so I'll give them some credit.

683
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 2: Could you imagine if someone tried to put forward like

684
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 2: a bill for miracle fraud and oh no, they would

685
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: get shot.

686
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: They would get literally get fucking shot.

687
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 2: Like somehow, like that's the fucking life. Oh God, that.

688
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: Would kiss people off so much. So I'm going to

689
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: I want to detail the story of one specific miracle fraudster,

690
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: forty four year old missus bows Olasukanmi. I think is

691
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: how that's pronounced. She was arrested by the Nigerian government

692
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty for being a fake miracle actor who

693
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: would sell her services to different pastors. Right basically, she

694
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: was really good. She was able to dislocate her arm

695
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: in an unconventional way that made it look like it

696
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: was shattered and in pieces, like there was at least

697
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: I saw.

698
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 2: There's like one.

699
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: Picture of it out there, like it's pretty good at it.

700
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 2: This is a little bit of skill.

701
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: And I'm going to quote from a write up in

702
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: the Nigerian Guardian here. Once she enters the stage, she

703
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: would pretend that the broken right arm had been hanging

704
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: and all medical efforts to heal her in both Orthodox

705
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: in native hospital proved abored of until one of her friends,

706
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: who was a member of the church, advised her to

707
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: try the church. At this point, one of the ministering pastor,

708
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: the General overseer, would step forward and demonstrate as if

709
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit had entered him. After speaking in tongues

710
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: for some minutes, he would order the woman to come

711
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: very close to him, while the congregation would be silent

712
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: anxiously waiting to see the broken right arm that has

713
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: been hanging. The pastor would ask the woman, do you

714
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: want to be healed? Have you been born again? If

715
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: she answers in the negative, then he led her to

716
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: Christ in prayer. He would then order the evil spirit

717
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: that bent her arm to depart and be destroyed by fire.

718
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: As he is ordering the evil spirit to depart, the

719
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: hanging broken arm will be coming back gradually to its

720
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: form until it is completely stretched down and normal, And

721
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: then he would ask the congregation to praise the Lord.

722
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: Well the congregation is busy praising God, one of the

723
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: church members whose role is to take the woman away,

724
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: would appear and whisker away, and then she gets paid.

725
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 2: Wow, and so she's just like the Meryl Streep of

726
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 2: fucking miracles.

727
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: There's a bunch you know how there used to be

728
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: like a circuit of people who would do the Jerry

729
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: Springer style talk shows because they had something like marketable,

730
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: you know, in a weird thing about them.

731
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: I think it's like that, right. Yeah, they're like, oh,

732
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: did you get the arm lady? It's like, no, I

733
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: got the dude with the buggy eyes.

734
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, what.

735
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: Are you gonna do?

736
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 4: What?

737
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 2: You can explain that it's because his blood pressure is

738
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 2: so high his eyes are bulging and then there's.

739
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: Too many demons in his blood they pop the pressure

740
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: right up.

741
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

742
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: Now this is one woman, but like she gets arrested

743
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: because the Nigerian police have like units dedicated to busting

744
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: miracle crimes, which is I do want to see that

745
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: TV show. I want to see like a Law and

746
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: Order some miracle c frauds Jersey.

747
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 2: In it and we get people the wrong. I did,

748
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 2: like do Law and Order mc U Yeah no, not

749
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 2: marvel asshole miracle crimes. Yeah they don't. They don't own

750
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 2: those letters.

751
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: So Joshua and other pastors like him would not just

752
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: like have these people over and do these miracle shows,

753
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: but they would make videos of them, and Joshua is

754
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: really going to be like the number one pastor for

755
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: pioneering making videos out of this stuff and distributing them

756
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: around the world. The basic way this works is that

757
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: you know, within kind of Nigeria, if you have these

758
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: people being healed in your shows, it will convince people

759
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: who are really injured or sick that they or their

760
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: loved ones might get healed. Right obviously, but Joshua took

761
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: this tactic several steps further. Right from an early date,

762
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: he starts filming videos of these healings, picking the most

763
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: sensational and impressive and putting them in videos not meant

764
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: for Nigerian domestic consumption, but these were sent over to Europe,

765
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: to Great Britain, into the United States with white missionaries

766
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: returning from Nigeria. For decades, Nigeria has been a hot

767
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: destination for missionary tourists, young Christians and professional missionaries traveling

768
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: to minister to the poor in a relatively friendly climate.

769
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: Joshua was not the only person to see this as

770
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: a profitable endeavor, but his matter of fishing for them

771
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: was unique at the time. Sending out propaganda to evangelize

772
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: British Christians, in particular. The BBC documentary that I cited

773
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: earlier includes interviews with several young British and South African

774
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: Caucasian women who were enraptured with and then terribly abused

775
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: by TV Joshua. Their journeys all start the same way.

776
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: Members of their local religious communities came back from Nigeria

777
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: with VHS tapes of miraculous healings. To give you an

778
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: idea of what some of these healings were and how

779
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: they looked. I wanted to return to that book Rejoice

780
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: and See what happens Next, which is centered around numerous

781
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 1: case studies ranging from poor people getting good paying jobs,

782
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: and I think that shit is meant mainly to evangelize

783
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: them to locals, right like this is something that can

784
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: improve your financial situation, to shit like this which is

785
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: very much geared towards Europeans that they're trying to get

786
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: to come over and join the church. Jude Orakas showed

787
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: up at the scone with a life threatening disease. The

788
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: case which I originally viewed live, has now been archived

789
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 1: by a manual TV that's his TV channel and includes

790
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: a commentary. The story opens with the camera zooming in

791
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: from a full body shot, then to a medium shot

792
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: of a man sitting in a chair. He is separated

793
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: from others, his body quivering in the sunshine and wearing

794
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: nothing but a pair of shorts. A close up shot

795
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 1: reveals her inndous skin damage. Narrator. A shocking condition brought

796
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: this man to the Synagogue Church of all Nations. His

797
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: body riddled with sickness right from the crown of his head.

798
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 1: His entire body has been engulfed in a plague, shattering

799
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: his skin into scale like fragments. There is not a

800
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: hair left on his head, as the frightening sickness has

801
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 1: completely destroyed his skin. From his head, the disease rages

802
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: across his body, damaging every inch and rendering his arms useless.

803
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: The skin flakes and peels horribly all the way down

804
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: his arms to his fingers. Not one inch of his

805
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: skin has been left unaffected. Jude's sister, Man of God,

806
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: help my brother. He has skin disease. For the past

807
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: six years, we have taken him all over. There is

808
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 1: no solution. Neither the herbalist's homes or hospitals have provided

809
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: any solution. Joshua talked to him briefly, and when he

810
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: sees Iraka is too sick to even talk, he asks

811
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: him if he can accept Jesus Christ as his Lord

812
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: and savior, which the man is able to answer. In

813
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 1: the name of Jesus Christ, I command that infirmity out.

814
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 1: Begin to vomit it out.

815
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 4: TB.

816
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: Joshua watches the man intently for about fifteen seconds, then

817
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: he speaks again. I say to you, disease, can hear me?

818
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 1: Come out of this man's life, and the name of

819
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: Jesus come out out TB.

820
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 2: Joshua.

821
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: The man begins to shake uncontrollably and bends forward to

822
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: throw something white and foam me up. You can see

823
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: what the name of Jesus can do out, I say

824
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: out in the name of Jesus. So gives you an idea, right, dude,

825
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: this yeah, okay, it's wild.

826
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 2: Foam me at the mouth. He's like, yo, dude, don't

827
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: put this Alca Seltzer in. It's gotta be Alca Celtic. No,

828
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 2: that's the oldest stricken the fucking book. M Yeah, it's

829
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 2: good shit.

830
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: And again, when we're talking about his appeal, obviously as

831
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: a preacher, he appeals to Nigerians as a preacher, but

832
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: to a lot of these like Europeans, these British people,

833
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 1: you know, he's not speaking their language fluently. The appeal

834
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: is not the specifics of what he's saying. It's that

835
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: he is promising them that if they come to see him,

836
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 1: they will get a direct physical connection to a miracle.

837
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: Right.

838
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: And if you are one of these evangelicals from a

839
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: wealthy country, like you're going to you know, reading the Bible,

840
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 1: you're watching veggie tails or whatever, but you're living like

841
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: these this what you would probably consider, compared to these videos,

842
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: a fairly boring, safe life, And then you see this

843
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: man physically fighting demons, right, and you're like, right, well,

844
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: of course I want to be a part of this.

845
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: This sounds so much more exciting than like going to

846
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: church and doing like fucking youth group shit.

847
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 4: Right.

848
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 2: It reminds me of like nineties skate culture, where like

849
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 2: you would be like, oh, you get the new Toy

850
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 2: Machine tape and you're like, yo, I'll bring it over.

851
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, dudelet we see the bail scenes or whatever,

852
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 2: and like there's always this culture being like yo, to

853
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 2: check this tape out. I got this tape, except in

854
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 2: this version, I also, I mean, it's clever that he's

855
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: also using the way the Western world views Africa in

856
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: this like exotic, mystical way and weaponizing it to be

857
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: like watch this shit, because they are they're already on

858
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 2: some bullshit thinking that this is some fucking magic shit

859
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 2: is happening here. It's like, no, I'm just a next

860
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 2: level scammer that was in the womb for fifteen months.

861
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that time really let him prep. Yeah, but no,

862
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: you have anticipated something we'll get to. He deals with

863
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: this very directly. He is very consciously taking advantage of

864
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: the way Westerners look at Africa. Right, So I do

865
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: want to I want to give you an idea of

866
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: what it looks like when he's because he's these are

867
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: not just he's not just doing healings. He's doing exorcisms,

868
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: and these take the place of like Gandolf Saromon magic

869
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: fights like that at the most extreme level. He'll like

870
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: walk in and they're like people will lunge at him

871
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: and he'll like put his hand and use the name

872
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: of GM. They'll go flying backwards like it's so it's

873
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: it's pretty cool.

874
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 2: Actually it looks like kung fu film, Like they're like, yeah,

875
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 2: high production.

876
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: You know, actually what it looks a little bit like

877
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: if you've watched the fake Steven segal a keto videos

878
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: or like the Vladimir Putin fake a keto videos where

879
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: they're just like touching guys and flinging them through.

880
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 2: The air like Russians video exactly.

881
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: Ah, yeah, god, it's so funny.

882
00:40:58,200 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 2: I want to play you with video of this.

883
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 8: Miles okah oh ship play as an lad a party.

884
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 2: I got this shorty by the dome piece Python. Watch.

885
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 2: That's great.

886
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: He's on the ground rolling like a Python. Boss.

887
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 2: It is boss.

888
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 6: It's boss.

889
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Boss.

890
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 2: Of the Boss of the Boss.

891
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: That's pretty. That's like wrestling grade, you know. Hell yeah,

892
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: that's fucking school play level. Of course. Of course, a

893
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 1: bunch of like fucking sheltered like teenage evangelical kids are

894
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: seeing this and they're like, well, I want to go

895
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: fight demons in Africa?

896
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 2: My god, did you see that? He just like just

897
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: a closed fish swiped in front of his chest and.

898
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: Blew the guy down. Yeah, Christ, it's so fun. I

899
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: mean a lot of people get horribly abused. It's actually not.

900
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: But this part of it is fun. Look, you got

901
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: to enjoy these little moments, right, yeah, yep, yeah. I

902
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: want to note here again, I don't want to fall

903
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 1: into the thing of being like, wow, look at this

904
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: African preacher and all these people believe this shit like

905
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 1: this goes down in the US all the fucking time.

906
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: Members of Congress go to churches that are not all

907
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: that different from this. Okay, Like you know, this is

908
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: not a Nigerian thing.

909
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 2: This is a thing. This is just that that's what

910
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 2: religion gives you. We've got a whole bunch of people

911
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: that are working in the government. They're like circle jerking

912
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 2: for the end times. Like this isn't like mainstream religious

913
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 2: stuff necessarily, but it's not like wildly uncommon evangelical. I mean,

914
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 2: especially when you see people prophesying, you know, or speaking

915
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 2: in tongues and shit, you're.

916
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: Like, oh, this is this is a derivation on a theme, right,

917
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: And I think it's also probably my guess would be

918
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: this is pretty close to what used to be a

919
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: lot more common back in the day, right, Like when

920
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 1: you hear about these stories of like demons and exorcisms

921
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: and shit, and like you know, someone someone in the

922
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: town water supply like someone will get like some fucking

923
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: air got poisoning, and everyone will hallucinate and you'll have

924
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: like a big demon fight in some medieval French village.

925
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 1: I'm sure like there's versions of that to explain it,

926
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: like these kind of there have always been people who

927
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: have known that, Like, well, if you really want to

928
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: make some money in the religion business, you got to

929
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: put on a fucking show. Yeah, and nothing's a better

930
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: show than fighting demons.

931
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah you got a pyrotechnics guy, Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I

932
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 2: got one, dude, you cat fingers. I'll say, Satan demon

933
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 2: get out with the fires of hell. Fucking full plume

934
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:42,439
Speaker 2: of fucking flame shoots up his back. Dude, it's sing gig.

935
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: It's pretty affordable, It's it's cool, it's good stuff. So again,

936
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: what I want to note is that like, while what

937
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: he is doing is not unique to him, he is

938
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: maybe the best I've seen at it. He's good, like

939
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: these are these are well orchestrated shows.

940
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's also the riz bro he's got. Yeah

941
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

942
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 1: It seems like so cool. He's like watching me hold

943
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: this mic with my vessel.

944
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 2: I don't give a fuck. That this dude's a python.

945
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 2: Watch this shit. Yeah, Like it feels like superman ish

946
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 2: kind of thing. I was like, Damn, he's super cocky

947
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 2: about it.

948
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: Yes, some Superman, some Vince McMahon, Like you got some

949
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 1: of that going in there?

950
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

951
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: Now you can see in some of his videos from

952
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: the arts that he's very deliberately taken framing techniques from

953
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: Western reality television. And I'm gonna play you a segment

954
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: from a different scone video about a secret demonic infiltrator,

955
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: mister Anny, being caught by one of TV Joshua's disciples,

956
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: and it just feels like something I would have seen

957
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: on MTV in like two thousand and one.

958
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 7: Here is mister Annie pretending to be a Christian, but

959
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 7: is a wolf in sheep's clothing? What is his mission

960
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 7: here among the people of God? Can darkness be in

961
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 7: the midst of light?

962
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 9: No?

963
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 7: Capital?

964
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: No, look at.

965
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 7: Mister Annie praying capital? Who is he praying to? There

966
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 7: is here and they're on prayers.

967
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: And it's like highlighting him and like the crowd shot

968
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: every time, like it's like surveillance footage, yeah, or.

969
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,479
Speaker 2: Likeny, like back when a hard copy was a show.

970
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, hard copy is as Yeah, yeah, sixty minutes hard copy.

971
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,359
Speaker 2: That's a better. That's a better. The current affair from

972
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 2: our old heads and.

973
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: The rest of the video proceeds. It's like this big

974
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 1: choreographed exorcism because obviously he's like a secret devil infiltrator

975
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: in scone. Oh, this goes it's it's great, it's great.

976
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 9: Ship.

977
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really good.

978
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 2: Like you have a Marvel movie fucking unfolding. Yeah, at

979
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 2: your churtzers, Like dude, last week, a fuck three dudes

980
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 2: came out of a fucking portal, Yeah, and fucked up

981
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 2: this infiltrator and then TV Joshua turned this woman's droopy

982
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 2: leg into a muscular one. It was wild man. You

983
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 2: had to you had to be.

984
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: So what happened in your church? This Sunday priest told

985
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: us we shouldn't have sex before marriage. Guy turned into

986
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:02,439
Speaker 1: a snake at my church.

987
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 2: No, yeah, and then you fucking punched him in the

988
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 2: head and a flame came out.

989
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: Of his As of course, I'm going to the snake church.

990
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can barely stay awake. Now.

991
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: This all goes over really well with these young white

992
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: evangelicals from Western countries who are just not used to

993
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 1: services being this exciting. You will hear comments from yeah,

994
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: no seasoning. You'll hear comments from a number of them

995
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: that are like, I felt like this was where real

996
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: biblical Christianity was still going down right, and I wanted to.

997
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 2: Be a part of it.

998
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: You know, I cannot exaggerate the extent to which a

999
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: lot of this was a conscious attempt by TV Joshua

1000
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: to recruit white people. And I'm going to play a

1001
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: clip from a BBC documentary on TV Joshua called Disciples.

1002
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: The guy talking here is his former right hand man

1003
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: who helped him start the church.

1004
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 10: He had special interest into Ubu.

1005
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 2: You will the whites.

1006
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 3: Are you?

1007
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 9: Are you surprised that God is using a black man

1008
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 9: to do disince?

1009
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm sorry, I'm not surprised that God is using

1010
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 2: a black man. What are these motherfuckers worried?

1011
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1012
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1013
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: Wow.

1014
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 10: Nineteen ninety six, one of the midior parcels came from

1015
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 10: South Africa. When they were living. He gives more than

1016
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 10: two hundred videos to take home to give to people,

1017
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 10: videos of miracles, videos of confessions, video.

1018
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,959
Speaker 1: Videos that will feel their head.

1019
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 2: Wow, I say this is too expensive?

1020
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 10: He left. You think I'm a fool. I know what

1021
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 10: I'm doing. A time will come this synagogue. Josh is

1022
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 10: going to shoot out from South Africa to the whole world.

1023
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: Now this guy also will claim TV. Joshua basically said

1024
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: to him, what I am doing by recruiting the people,

1025
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: I want to take advantage of them. I want to

1026
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: get revenge for what white people have done to us,

1027
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: which is I think is part. I think is largely

1028
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,399
Speaker 1: him because as a spoiler, this guy is not some

1029
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: sort of like anti colonial hero. Most of the people

1030
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: he abuses are Black African women, right like, he is

1031
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: not not at all and actually like a hero. But

1032
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: I think he understood that this guy who worked with

1033
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,240
Speaker 1: him might respond to that. Right, That's that's how I read.

1034
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 2: It, right right, right right? Yeah, Yeah, we're taking them.

1035
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,919
Speaker 2: We're taken from them because for years they've been taken

1036
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 2: from me.

1037
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: Yes, And the BBC documentary is a very very good

1038
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 1: job of Obviously, a lot of the victims at Cites

1039
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: are white people from South Africa, from England, but most

1040
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 1: of the victims that I see are black Nigerian Ghanian women,

1041
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: you know, which which is I'm glad, Like they clearly

1042
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: put in an effort to not just be like, look

1043
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 1: at what this guy is doing to white women, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1044
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: but rather to highlight the differences between how he approached.

1045
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 2: Like which would have been the way people first sort

1046
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 2: of had outraged, like he yeah, he could get.

1047
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:04,280
Speaker 1: Over on us. Yeah no, no, no, yeah. And it's interesting.

1048
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: There's also there's a lot of very interesting racial dimensions here.

1049
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: You saw in that video the guy he asks like,

1050
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: are you surprised to see a black man, you know,

1051
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: preaching the word of God? That like, I think that's

1052
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: a South African pastor. Did you see what he was wearing?

1053
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 2: That dress? Oh yeah, very traditional?

1054
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: That is, yeah, traditional African dress. And I think what

1055
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: is happening here is that these kind of established South

1056
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 1: African and Western white pastors were being fited by TB.

1057
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 2: Joshua.

1058
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 1: He was giving them basically like you can have an

1059
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: authentic African experience, right, Like I'm going to give that

1060
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: to you if you endorse me as legitimate. I can't

1061
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: have any other explanation for the way that man is

1062
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 1: portraying himself.

1063
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 2: There's also I mean I saw this one when I

1064
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 2: was in Ghana, Like there is like this Canadian expat

1065
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 2: that lived in this village that like nearby where I

1066
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 2: was visiting, and he kind of became like the elder,

1067
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 2: like the chief of the village, only because like he

1068
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 2: like was married to a Genan woman, but like built

1069
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 2: like a proper there, and like he dressed like that,

1070
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 2: like he had the whole vio, like he was like, no,

1071
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,919
Speaker 2: I'm here to do the African thing. So I wonder

1072
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 2: if like on some some level they like they just

1073
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 2: really loved the larp of it all, you know too,

1074
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 2: or they're like, yeah, look at me, bro, I look

1075
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 2: like a goddamn fucking god from West Africa right now.

1076
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of this is maybe beyond like my pay grade,

1077
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,240
Speaker 1: but that was my read there in that particular scene

1078
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: that like that's kind of what he's offering some of

1079
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 1: these established white pastors. Isn't that kind of legitimacy?

1080
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 2: I'm sure, And I'm sure that's a very attractive proposition

1081
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 2: for someone who probably finds himself very self important like

1082
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 2: a pastoro and like watch me enter all of these

1083
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: spaces and I accepted with open arms, like no fucking

1084
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 2: friction at all, Like yeah, yeah, TB. Joshua is uh yeah, man,

1085
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 2: fucking Machiavelli over here.

1086
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: It to kind of highlight the experience that he's he

1087
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: is offering to a lot of these white visitors. I

1088
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 1: want to play you another clip.

1089
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 4: Believe you me, brother Ridia. It was the last type

1090
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 4: on uth that I ever wanted to come to, Thy broadst,

1091
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 4: thy money, Launders, thy drag pedness, And I say, God, sorry, Yeah,

1092
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 4: he's a piece of heaven honor.

1093
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 2: The greatest and.

1094
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 10: The prompt and I got church was when the foreigner

1095
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:22,720
Speaker 10: started coming. This was strategic and it was planned.

1096
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 6: I just got a confession to make that I want

1097
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 6: the old world to know. In the past, I've always

1098
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 6: I really hated them. When I got back, every year

1099
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 6: I saw the love that we received from black people.

1100
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 11: He used the white people for markets is bad. I

1101
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 11: mean white a man or white woman around is like

1102
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 11: you have achieved. He just said, look at these people,

1103
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 11: they don't know where the Yeah.

1104
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 1: The white people dancing video there, it's like there's some

1105
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: there's some good good like eighties dudes shuffling.

1106
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: About, yeah, doing some kind of foot loose.

1107
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,439
Speaker 1: Shit, some kind of footler shit.

1108
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,359
Speaker 2: What the fuck is going on? But yeah, I mean geez,

1109
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 2: I mean like it's interesting you know, like, there are

1110
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 2: these people who become predatory like this. It's because they

1111
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,720
Speaker 2: understand the predation that exists around them at many different levels.

1112
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: And he's just able to, like he has such a

1113
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 2: mastery of it that he's like, no, watch this, and

1114
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 2: then I can use white people to legitimize it. It's like,

1115
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 2: I already know how this works. I already know how

1116
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: this works. I've seen it. I've seen this shit a

1117
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 2: hundred times.

1118
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: You know what, I know how it works. Miles sponsoring

1119
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 1: a podcast and we're back.

1120
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 2: I just want to say that product, fank fuck for that.

1121
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 2: Did that save you?

1122
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: Did that cure your your arm? Oh? Yeah, yeah, no,

1123
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: it cleared my ear chlamydia?

1124
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, clear it right. All my hair grew back to.

1125
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 1: Your uh huh you even you even have several other

1126
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: people's hair.

1127
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, just from listening to the fucking ad. That's how

1128
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 2: powerful that is. So I'm definitely gonna buy it.

1129
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, folks, spend your money please. So from the

1130
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: end of the nineties to the early two thousands, Scone

1131
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 1: expanded rapidly, driven by the surge in foreign religious tourists

1132
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: who flooded into Nigeria to see the man deemed a

1133
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 1: profit and miracle worker. According to former associates, he often

1134
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: paid for the plane tickets of these white evangelicals because

1135
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: he saw their presence as the best marketing his church

1136
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 1: would get. Every youth group leader or pastor from the

1137
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 1: US or Europe who visited came back enthralled and directed

1138
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 1: funds and more followers.

1139
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 2: TB.

1140
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: Josh was way White followers again also acted as marketing

1141
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: for his church within Nigeria. It was important to him

1142
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: that the Synagogue Church of All Nations be seen as

1143
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: a world church, and this made it more appeal to

1144
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: Nigerians for the same reason people are always drawn to

1145
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: international celebrities. Right, are you more impressed with like the

1146
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: guy who like me, he's got like a local access

1147
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 1: TV show and he owns a car a lot or are

1148
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: you more impressed by like the NFL.

1149
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 2: Dude who owns a series of car dealerships?

1150
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 5: Right?

1151
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 2: I don't care what that NFL do, But I mean

1152
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 2: if you're like, if you're some dude named TV Joshua

1153
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 2: do and you got some South Africans doing footloo shit.

1154
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: Yeah you gotta dancing. You got South Africans dancing? You

1155
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: I might get to meet John lyfth Gow, And I've

1156
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: always wanted to meet John left Gow. That would totally

1157
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: change my opinion of this guy. If there's John in

1158
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,280
Speaker 1: the mix. Yeah, I'll do anything to meet John Lythgow.

1159
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean he's in the best season of Dexter,

1160
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: He's in the best season a Dexter, He's in Bukaroo Bonzai.

1161
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: What would Yeah, just a just a rich, rich history

1162
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 1: of being John Lyftgow. So yeah, it was all brilliantly executed.

1163
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 1: Footage from the church in this period is distinctly uncomfortable.

1164
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: You can see very small groups of ravenously excited white

1165
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: evangelicals given positions of honor at the front of huge

1166
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: stadium crowds of Nigerian citizens, Like look at look at

1167
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: this picture here, Like it's it's very stark, like all

1168
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: the white people in one area, everyone else in another,

1169
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: and the white people are right next to TV Joshua.

1170
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sort of like kind of like the same

1171
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 2: logic of like the like a Maga rally where it's like,

1172
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 2: please help the people, like the few people of color,

1173
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 2: Please give them prominent spaces, even though it's the same

1174
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 2: five people. Just please we need them there, we need

1175
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 2: them there. Yeah.

1176
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 1: So TV preaching was and is huge in Nigeria, but

1177
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 1: TV Joshua took it to another level, filming much more

1178
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 1: than most of his colleagues and theming his videos for

1179
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 1: an international audience. One interview he recorded features a white

1180
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: english woman asking him why he makes so many videos

1181
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 1: and his answer is fucking amazing because if Jesus was

1182
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,919
Speaker 1: not recorded in the Bible, you would not believe that

1183
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: Jesus is the same today. I fucking love that answer.

1184
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: I fucking love that ads there. That is like that.

1185
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: That's a smart man. That's a smart man, like he

1186
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: either had that in the chamber or he.

1187
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 2: Just extempt that ship. But that is good. What a

1188
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:11,959
Speaker 2: fucking clap back.

1189
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that man knows his business. I'll give him that.

1190
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,319
Speaker 1: It's a horrible business, but he fucking knows it.

1191
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:17,959
Speaker 2: Fucking knows.

1192
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's fun stuff. So I want to play

1193
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: a clip for you here of a woman you're about

1194
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: to hear from. This lady is the church's head of

1195
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 1: foreign visitor relations and she's talking about kind of bringing

1196
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: in these like foreign white religious tourists to Scone. So

1197
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 1: we're gonna press play.

1198
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 11: Here for it was a game on a trap that

1199
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 11: hecets for the whites people.

1200
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, it's fun around that, yeah for the white people. Okay, TV,

1201
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: Well we're gonna continue in a second. But there's a

1202
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 1: couple of things going on here. One is that for

1203
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: these young people traveling from other parts of the world,

1204
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: these are mostly kids who are more affluent, they are

1205
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:09,839
Speaker 1: seeing the wider world for the first time, and that's

1206
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: intoxicating anytime you go to a country that's not like

1207
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: the suburbs, right, yeah, and.

1208
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:21,479
Speaker 2: You're so sheltered too, and such a homogeneous fucking yeah environment. Yeah.

1209
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a drug. And in addition to just like, yeah,

1210
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: you're in Africa after a lifetime and a place that

1211
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: is not at all Africa, and that's like this whole

1212
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: fascinating journey. And then you get love bombed too. You

1213
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: are the focus of thousands of locals who are not

1214
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: It's not just like going to a country and being

1215
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: like a tourist. It's going to a country and seeing

1216
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: a crowd of locals overjoyed that you're there, and then

1217
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: after you get love bombed. Over the next several days,

1218
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: these tourists, the first couple of days you spend at scone.

1219
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: You're just watching hours of miracle videos every day. It's

1220
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: like a clockwork orange style thing. And then after your treatment. Yeah,

1221
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: and you prime them with the videos and then you

1222
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: do live miracle shows, right, because you don't want him

1223
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: to just see that ship when they're like kind of tired,

1224
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: and it's like you want them in the most suggestible

1225
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: mind state possible, right, you prime that shit.

1226
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, horny for a miracle horny And I'm absolutely horny

1227
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 2: for America.

1228
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1229
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: And it's wild that he's using the same playbook as

1230
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 2: like Andrew Tait and all these other people's like traffic

1231
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 2: them in. Yeah, love bomb them and then and then

1232
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 2: run run your playbook.

1233
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: The court leaders only ever work, what like, there's variations

1234
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 1: based on the tech available to you in the time period,

1235
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 1: but it's all the same, you know.

1236
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 2: HS DVD streaming whatever. Ron Hubbard did it, you.

1237
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, the classic way with boats. We're going to

1238
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: play you one more clip explaining how this process goes.

1239
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 5: I've never seen a local African town before, and it

1240
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 5: was a hustle and mustle and street sellers and food

1241
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 5: and it's very colorful. I was just taking everything in.

1242
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 2: You kind of went down a driveway.

1243
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 4: In these these vehicles that had other foreign visitors in.

1244
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: There were tour groups going up from South Africa in

1245
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 1: quite large numbers.

1246
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 12: I'm Angelique and I'm from South Africa. Even before I went,

1247
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 12: I had these VHS tapes that I had watched and

1248
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 12: I'd seen the most incredible things, and I was so

1249
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 12: beyond excited to see this in real life.

1250
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:39,439
Speaker 11: I was coordinator of international visitors. Anytime this visit dot

1251
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 11: com SI Videosha will call and say, go and meet

1252
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 11: your visitors.

1253
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 12: Nag your own disciples with these beautiful smiles, welcome you.

1254
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 12: There's just people smiling. Everyone looks so happy.

1255
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 11: We make you feel like like celebrity.

1256
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's that's it's so smart, like it is

1257
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: such a it's such a slick operation. I'm just very

1258
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: I'm as evil as a lot of this is. I'm

1259
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 1: very impressed. Right, this is the point at which the

1260
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: battery hits full swing, because one of the chief things

1261
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 1: he'll do when he's like showing people life miracles is

1262
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: he'll cure HIV.

1263
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 2: Right.

1264
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: And the way you the way you do this is

1265
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: you have someone come up with like a piece of

1266
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: paper that looks official that says I have HIV, and

1267
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: then you pray over them, and then they get a

1268
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 1: test and they come back with a sheet of paper

1269
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: that says I don't have HIV. Right, you know, I

1270
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: don't have to explain to you how to fake that, right,

1271
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: it's not hard Like you have a printer, you can

1272
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 1: bribe a doctor, right, But it's very impressive to these kids.

1273
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna have Sophe play a one more clip here.

1274
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 9: When I came here, I had been suffering from asthma,

1275
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 9: and after a short time as the ministry from the

1276
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 9: Prophet TB, I thought my breathing come totally clear. God

1277
01:00:58,880 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 9: had healed me.

1278
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 11: So I see you've.

1279
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 4: Got a medical report check.

1280
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 2: Can you please just show the camera that, right be

1281
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 2: to God?

1282
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:11,439
Speaker 1: Negative states it for HIV and HIV two. So it's

1283
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 1: not that fucked up to just like it's fucked up,

1284
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: but like the amount of damage you can do by

1285
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: convincing like these these evangelical tourists that you've cured someone's AIDS,

1286
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 1: you're mainly just going to be able to abuse them more, right, Right,

1287
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 1: But you're not necessarily causing a public health crisis with that.

1288
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 1: What does cause the public health crisis is that he

1289
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 1: is also convincing his Nigerian followers of this right, and

1290
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 1: they are actually the people who have HIV at a

1291
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 1: highd rate, right, certainly higher than these like evangelical tourists.

1292
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: And not only is he convincing them that he can

1293
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: cure them by praying over them, part of what he's

1294
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 1: convincing them is that they should not go get medical

1295
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: treatment or take retrovirals for their HIV only right, HIV

1296
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: retrovirals are very available, HIV very treatable. It is not

1297
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 1: a death sentence when you have access to retrovirals. And

1298
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 1: one of the things he is doing to members of

1299
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: his flock is telling them, do not take these. God

1300
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 1: doesn't want you to take these. I can cure your HIV.

1301
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: And we don't know how many people he got to

1302
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 1: stop taking their retrovirals as a result of this, but

1303
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: we do know that in twenty eleven, in one public

1304
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 1: sized case, three women in London died when they were

1305
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: convinced by preachers to stop taking their retrovirals. And one

1306
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 1: of those preachers was TV Joshua and I think these

1307
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 1: women were immigrants. When reporters asked TV Joshua if he

1308
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 1: advised followers to avoid treating their HIV. He gave this answer,

1309
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: let me tell you, I am a medium in the

1310
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 1: same way doctors are mediums to bring treatment. So basically saying, hey,

1311
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: I'm just a doctor too, you know.

1312
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1313
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: One follower I read an interview with because he's not

1314
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 1: just doing this with HIV. He's telling people to avoid

1315
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: all sorts of modern medicine in favor of paying him,

1316
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: you know, to pray over them. His followers at devoted

1317
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: member of the church who was like helping to run

1318
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 1: the church. His mother was enthralled with TV Joshua and

1319
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 1: refused to take chemotherapy for her cancer after Joshua healed

1320
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 1: her and told her that she did not need it.

1321
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 1: Within six months, she was dead. This follower, who again

1322
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: was a dedicated volunteer of the church, calls TB.

1323
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 2: Joshua.

1324
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 1: He's close enough to this guy to have his phone number.

1325
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 1: He calls him to let him know that his mom

1326
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 1: is dead, and TB. Joshua hangs up on him, and

1327
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 1: he later he like asks one of the other workers there,

1328
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: like he hung up on me, Like what the fuck?

1329
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 1: And that guy's like, well, the prophet doesn't listen to

1330
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 1: bad news.

1331
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 2: Oh hey, you're gonna fuck up the prophet's confirmation bias,

1332
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 2: so I don't fucking tell him about that shit. He's

1333
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 2: just gonna Oh yeah, you're just going to.

1334
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 1: Hear the click's wild stuff. Anyway, that's the TV Joshua story.

1335
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 3: Oh got anything to plug at the end of part one.

1336
01:03:56,280 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 2: Miles please you know, when when appropriate, listened to your

1337
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 2: healthcare providers and not someone named TV Joshua or whatever TV.

1338
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 1: Jakes, I don't care who it is at T don't

1339
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 1: get don't get help advice for many of them. Yeah,

1340
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: uh plug, Uh yeah, just listen to the Daily Zeitgeist.

1341
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 1: You know, that's my daily news and politics and.

1342
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 2: Comedy shit show. And uh, if you like ninety Day Fiance,

1343
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 2: look one of your other favorite guests, Sophia Alexandra. That's

1344
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 2: a show I host with her, and this is us

1345
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 2: getting high and talking about ninety Day Fiance. That's how

1346
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 2: we kind of blow steam off between Bastard's recordings and

1347
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 2: you know, just the general world of it all.

1348
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: Well, blow off some steam with that, and blow off

1349
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 1: some steam with steam I don't know. Yeah, and a

1350
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 1: new show Sarah flu is really starting to fit me up.

1351
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 3: Now will you plug edge show?

1352
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Ed's got a show. It's called Better Offline.

1353
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: It's about all the fucked up tech industry shit that

1354
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 1: you probably need to know because they're actively trying to

1355
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: destroy your life and everyone else's life, so you know,

1356
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: keep an eye out for that.

1357
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm gonna go, Miles, I'm gonna go. Uh, I'm

1358
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 2: gonna go hang out.

1359
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 1: At a fucking playground with a with a spoon and

1360
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:21,439
Speaker 1: some foil and a pack of a thera flu Yeah.

1361
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 2: Watch, You're gonna go to like a needle exchange and

1362
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 2: they're like, no, man, this is the people that actually

1363
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 2: need it. Man, that's your fucking weird old theraflu shit.

1364
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah yeahould be ashamed of yourself.

1365
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 1: I got to take a needle from one of my

1366
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: diabetic friends to shoot the.

1367
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 2: Flu up, like my EpiPen. Where is it? Oh sorry

1368
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 2: I needed the needle. Yeah no, I empty.

1369
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 1: I emptied the epidephyrin from my EpiPen and just theorough

1370
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 1: fluid that ship up. Get that right into the meat.

1371
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.

1372
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 3: The episode is so over Bye. Behind the Bastards is

1373
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 3: a production a cool Zone Media. For more from cool

1374
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 3: Zone Media, visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or

1375
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 3: check us out on the iHeartRadio

1376
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 2: App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.