1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: A podcast playground. This is Buzznight. 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 2: I host the Taking a Walk Music History on Foot podcast. 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 2: Find us on all the podcast platforms and also you 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 2: can go to our website at takinowalk dot com. You 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 2: could not only hear all the episodes, but you can 6 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,319 Speaker 2: also read the transcripts. You can leave us suggestions or 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: feedback as well on this Taking a Walk classic replay. 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: Let's go back to. 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 2: November twenty ninth, twenty twenty two. We're just outside of Nashville, Tennessee, 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: to meet up with the amazing, awesome Amanda Shires, multi 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: talented singer, songwriter, incredible fiddle player. I remember that afternoon 12 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 2: so well when our plan walk was disrupted due to 13 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 2: a thunderstorm and you could hear the storm rumbling in 14 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: the background as we're talking inside Amanda's barn. What a 15 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 2: great afternoon. It was stories of John Prime Leonard and 16 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 2: her creative process. We'll welcome Amanda Shires next. 17 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: Not taking a walk, Oh, Amanda Shires, it's so nice 18 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: to be with you. Sort of taking a walk. 19 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 3: We took a walk from the cars to the barn. 20 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 1: We had a plan, but mother nature had its way. 21 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 3: Yep, or one of those other gods, but. 22 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 4: We're okay, We're inside your beautiful surroundings here. 23 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 5: You call this the barn of internal wandering, And why that? 24 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 5: I think for me, part of the way my process 25 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 5: works is that. 26 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 3: I don't try to get in. 27 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 5: The way of that part of the brain that needs 28 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 5: to find its own way or do its own thing 29 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 5: when you're creating. So if I wake up in the 30 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 5: morning and I do my medical I do team. After 31 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 5: I do my transidental meditation, I'll come out here and 32 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 5: do at least five minutes of writing or twenty or 33 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 5: have however long it feels like going. And then I'll 34 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 5: be told or led to record or paint or practice 35 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 5: or play Miss pac Man, or go grocery shopping if 36 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 5: I have to, or garden. 37 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: But every day is sort of this let's see where 38 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: it rolls. 39 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, on the. 40 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 5: Days when i'm I don't have, you know, familial. 41 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: Obligations, which is many days, well, I. 42 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 3: Do well, I do, but I don't, you know, to 43 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 3: to balance and to be well. 44 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 5: I find that no amount of of good parenting makes 45 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 5: up for an unhappy mother. So I find that balance 46 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 5: is super important. Like I do the job of of mothering, 47 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 5: and I have to sort of set boundaries to make 48 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 5: sure I don't just do that all day, yeah, cause 49 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 5: it could be a day long, it could be all 50 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 5: day yeah, and sometimes those those days happened, you know, 51 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 5: especially on the weekends and things like that. Those are 52 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 5: definitely all for Mercy and Jason, but we all have 53 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 5: to maintain our own identities first before we could be 54 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 5: other identities for others. 55 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 4: So can you take us back to that moment when 56 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 4: you knew that you wanted to ask your. 57 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: Your dad to buy that uh first uh instrument. 58 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 5: Yeah, it it would seem random, except for it, it 59 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 5: wasn't random. 60 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 3: My dad. 61 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 5: My dad had a relationship, a good relationship with this 62 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 5: guy named Ady Garrett who owned eighty Garrett's pawn Shop 63 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 5: in Minorroales, Texas. At that time, the population was one 64 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 5: four three four eight, and it was kind of the 65 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 5: place where you went and traded guns or knives or 66 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 5: you know, instruments or you know, all kind kinds of 67 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 5: things were bought and sold there. But he went in 68 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 5: there specifically for a new knife for he he he 69 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 5: hunts deer with bow and arrow and stuff. But you know, 70 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 5: at that time, we ate deer and squirrel and stuff. 71 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 5: Poor f poor folks, is what I'm describing. And he 72 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 5: needed a knife and he went in there to get 73 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 5: a new one cause he had broke his somehow, and 74 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 5: I saw it hanging. 75 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: On the wall and I I just looked at it. 76 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 5: I walked around some tried to feign interest in knives, 77 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 5: and I just stood there. 78 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 3: And then. 79 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 5: This smart salesman, the eighty Gearrett was saw me looking 80 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 5: at the fiddle and came and got it down for me. 81 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 5: And then after my dad picked out his knife, he 82 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 5: came to get me in. 83 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 3: And I was by that. 84 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 5: Time begging for the fiddle, and I just didn't know 85 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 5: why or how it worked or anything. I just i 86 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 5: and it was about as high up as that little 87 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 5: old uh electric ukulele right there, and I just had 88 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 5: to have it. And then my dad was like, no, 89 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 5: I don't have that kind of money. 90 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 3: It was sixty dollars. 91 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 5: And then AD was like, well, you could take it 92 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 5: home and just come back and pay me as you 93 00:04:58,120 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 5: get it. 94 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 3: And my dad was like, d okay. 95 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 5: And he said you have to swear to me you're 96 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 5: gonna learn it, cause I don't know this. 97 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 3: I don't have this kind of money. 98 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 5: And and then I took it, took it back to 99 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 5: his house and broke all the strings. And after the 100 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 5: summer was over, I took it home to my mom 101 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 5: and she enrolled me in the school orchestra. And then 102 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 5: after that, uh, my teacher recommended that I have private lessons, 103 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 5: and then my private lessons teacher decided that I also 104 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 5: needed to learn fiddle. And when he showed me Spanish 105 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 5: two step, that's when I decided I was gonna be 106 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 5: a fiddle player. And I went to my mom's card 107 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 5: and said, I'm a fiddle player now. And she said, 108 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 5: as long as you maintained your classical and your orchestra learning, 109 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 5: you can also learn fiddle. And I said, okay, And 110 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 5: that's all that got started. 111 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: That was the beginning of everything. Right you were you were, 112 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: You were. 113 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 3: Stuck like, yeah, I don't, I I don't, I don't. 114 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 5: I I try to think about why that happened, and 115 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 5: and the uh. 116 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 3: The thunder agrees. It's accenting my words here. 117 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 4: And by the way, people like on this podcast the sounds, 118 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 4: so we. 119 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 3: Don't they like, I mean, we could go out closer 120 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 3: to it if you want. 121 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 5: There's a there's a bar right there, and there's. 122 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 3: Some birds that won't we fly into I'm very comfortable. Okay, cool, awesome. 123 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was it. 124 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 5: I think about it sometimes and I think, you know, 125 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 5: there's a lot going on on in my childhood and 126 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 5: stuff at that time, and being nine and eight and 127 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 5: nine years old, you don't really have or we didn't 128 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 5: have the uh, the kind of language that it that 129 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 5: we would need to teach kids or you know, my 130 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 5: my parents were young when they had me. They didn't 131 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 5: have the language to even verbalize their own emotions, much 132 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 5: less teach me how to do it. So I had 133 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 5: no vocabulary or no means of which to even talk 134 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 5: about my feelings. 135 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 3: And I think by divine intervention. 136 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 5: It was it was uh put on me to learn 137 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 5: the the uh intermo insurmountable chore of of what it 138 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 5: is to play the fiddle. 139 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: Did you ever doubt that you would figure it out? 140 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 5: No, I I I didn't doubt I would figure it out. 141 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 5: I I knew that, you know, if anything, the worst 142 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 5: thing could happen would be I'd be the worst, the 143 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 5: worst in the class. 144 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 3: But I'd still be doing something I liked, you know, 145 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 3: Or maybe. 146 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 5: I'd not be the best one in the world, but 147 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 5: I'd still be doing something I loved. And then and 148 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 5: during that learning, I figured out that music helped me 149 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 5: best when it came to expression and and and that 150 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 5: kind of helps you daily when you're going through anything, 151 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 5: how to get the emotions off yourself and figure it out. 152 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 4: So then you're fifteen years old and you end up 153 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 4: playing with this incredible band, the Texas Playboys. 154 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 3: M mm. What wasn't quite as simple as that? I 155 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 3: they not only did. Okay, I'll start from the beginning. 156 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 5: So in my lessons with my violent teacher, privately, Lanny 157 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 5: was Lanny Field was noticing that I was only drawn 158 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 5: to certain types of passages, and I would be I 159 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 5: would excel at certain very difficult passages, and the rest 160 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 5: I was bored and doing poorly, you know. He said, 161 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 5: why don't you play this part as well as you 162 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 5: do the other parts. I said, that doesn't interest me, 163 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 5: and he was like, well, if you do it, you know, 164 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 5: or when you do it, I will also show you 165 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 5: something that I've been learning, and it's fiddle. And he 166 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 5: was actually in the process of transcribing actually. 167 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 3: Have it here randomly, Oh, what's hold on? 168 00:08:53,920 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 5: One second, he was in the process of transcribing old 169 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 5: fiddle tunes from Frankie McCord and taking him from learning him, 170 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 5: learning them by ear like all the parts from Frankie mccorter, 171 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 5: who I eventually learned fiddle from. 172 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 3: Uh uh two two years later. I'm getting to that. 173 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 5: Okay, I'm getting ahead of myself. Kind of a lot 174 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 5: to talk about all at once, isn't it. 175 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: It's awesome. 176 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 5: So Lanny was learning fiddle and from Frankie, and Frankie 177 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 5: learned from ec robertson the first recorded fiddle player nineteen 178 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 5: twenty six and somewhere in Texas, so I think that's 179 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 5: the right year and anyway, so it's like eck Frankie. 180 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 5: Then me and Lanny were learning from him. But it 181 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 5: wasn't stuff he could read on the paper. And this 182 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 5: is what I've been studying this, reading music and classical 183 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 5: and so he was transcribing it so that it wouldn't 184 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 5: get lost in the shuffle of time, right, And I 185 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 5: put it on the first song I learned, and he 186 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 5: showed me this song and that it was this song 187 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 5: where I ran out to the card said I'm a 188 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 5: fiddle player, mom. This song Spanish two step the Bob 189 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 5: Wills song, and I just loved it. And it's Frankie's arrangement, 190 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 5: but you know, it's a Bob Willson and so he 191 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 5: showed it to me, and then he showed me the 192 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 5: work he was doing and and transcribing and learning from 193 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 5: Frank mccorter, who played with the playboye who was a 194 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 5: foreman of the Jay Abrams ranch in Lipscomb, Texas, which 195 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 5: is just a few miles away from Turkey, Texas. And 196 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 5: actually more turkeys live in Lipscomb than people. 197 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 3: That's really funny. 198 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 5: And incidentally, Frankie's dog was Hank the cow Dog. 199 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: Ooh, okay, the actual one. 200 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 5: And and do you know Hank the Cow Dog book? 201 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 5: No it, Well, it was a series of books, and 202 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 5: this wonderful writer wrote these Hank the Cow Dog children's 203 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:51,599 Speaker 5: books that I had heard of, and I thought it 204 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 5: was the coolest thing. 205 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 3: Frankie's actual dog was Hank the Cow. 206 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: Dog, no shit. 207 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 5: And so eventually, after becoming very interested, decided to tell 208 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 5: Lanny that I was gonna help 'em, you know, with 209 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 5: all this, and play music with him and and Frankie, 210 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 5: and I was gonna learn by year two and all this. 211 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 5: So my mom would drive me down there to Frankie, 212 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 5: and through Frankie and Lanny, I met Tommy Alsop, who 213 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 5: was uh in charge of the Texas Playboys at that time, 214 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 5: and he was at one time in the Buddy Holly band. 215 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 5: He was the bass player. No, he was a guitar player. 216 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 5: Whalen was a bass player in that band, right, Yeah. 217 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 5: And Tommy Ylsop was a fantastic producer and human and 218 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 5: lots of the Lord exists about Tommy Ylsop. 219 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 3: He was the guy that flipped the coin. 220 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 5: Ritchie Vallens uh and uh he had he had a 221 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 5: lot of a long history. He had Liberty Records, and 222 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 5: he did all kinds of fantastic stuff. But anyway, so 223 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 5: through Lanny and Frankie, I met Tommy and that's how 224 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 5: I wound up with the Texas Playboys. You know, they 225 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 5: were all in their seventies and eighties during this time, 226 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 5: and sometimes not all the fiddle players could make it. 227 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 5: Sometimes people passed away, and I found myself in the 228 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 5: lucky position of of of. 229 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 3: Being in the group. 230 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 5: And the all I had to do was be willing 231 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 5: to play any of these parts, and it meant that 232 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 5: somebody didn't show up. So I memorized all the parts, first, 233 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 5: the fir, the you know, the melody and the harmony 234 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 5: and the low harmony, and most of the time I 235 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 5: got stuck on the low the low harmony, and I. 236 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 3: Was happy with that. 237 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 5: And eventually they had me learning to improvise, and then 238 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 5: I sang for the first time, which was a disaster. 239 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 5: And yeah, they're my best friends. I compare everything to 240 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 5: that experience. 241 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 4: Now, why was that first singing experience a disaster? 242 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 5: Oh my god. Luckily they were all my friends. It 243 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 5: was like having seven the granddads, cause it was like, 244 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 5: oh uh, so we had talked about it and I 245 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 5: was gonna sing cause I could sing harmony. And so 246 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 5: they're like, you should take a lead at the Christmas 247 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 5: show and I was like, okay, I'll try. And we 248 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 5: practiced it, you know, ran through it once. That was 249 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 5: all great, and then had the show comes around and 250 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 5: I stand up there to sing a little walk with 251 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 5: you sre would Go Good, which is the first line 252 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 5: of the song sure would Go Good, the song that 253 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 5: I first chose to sing m And you know, we 254 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 5: played the part doo doo, the doo do the doo, 255 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 5: the little intro and then I go up. 256 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 3: There and no, nothing came out. And I was like, 257 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 3: oh no, this is the worst, this is terrible. 258 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 5: And I have a picture of it, and my friend 259 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 5: Shelby was there with me and she took the picture. 260 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 5: But they're all just cracking up looking down and I'm like, 261 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 5: oh my god, what is happening? 262 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 3: And then they don't stop playing. So I've learned a lot. 263 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 5: Of things from them about when things happen on stage 264 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 5: or not they don't go right, and and what you 265 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 5: do and don't do. 266 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 3: You don't have to stop the whole song and make 267 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 3: a big deal. 268 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 5: So they turned it around again and during that time, 269 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 5: Leon Roush, the singer of the band, grabbed my hand 270 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 5: and he said, I'm gonna hold your hand and I'm 271 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 5: gonna sing it right here in this invisible microphone while 272 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 5: you sing it on the real microphone. 273 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 3: And I was like okay. And it was very wavery 274 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 3: w and terrible. 275 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 5: I think in my mind's eye, my memory, but uh, 276 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 5: I got through it, and. 277 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 3: I think that, uh, probably what got me is the uh, 278 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 3: the fear. 279 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 5: That comes along with, you know, standing in front of 280 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 5: a bunch of people and there's lights on you, and 281 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 5: that goes back to somewhere primal that makes you feel like, oh, 282 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 5: I better run. You know, it's a flight er f 283 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 5: flight or fight here, I'd better run. It seems unnatural. 284 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 5: I don't know what it was, but I was terrified. 285 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 5: And after that it got it started. 286 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 3: Getting a little easier with the lead singing, but not much. 287 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: It took some time, but it was a defining moment. 288 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 3: Oh, it was definitely. 289 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 5: And the problem is is that when somebody asks me 290 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 5: to do something and I say yes, I was. You know, 291 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 5: my granddaddy drilled that into me and my dad more 292 00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 5: than anything, many more than any other thing. 293 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 3: If you say you're gonna do something, you do it. 294 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 5: If you say you're gonna be somewhere at a certain time, 295 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 5: you'd be there at a certain time. And I don't 296 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 5: know why that seems to be so important to me, 297 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 5: but I do it, and I told them I would 298 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 5: do it, so I, uh, I carried on. 299 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: I'd say you did, yeah. 300 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 4: Yeah. 301 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 5: Sometimes I wonder why I say yes to things, but 302 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 5: it's okay. 303 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 4: I hope you're you're not second guessing this, uh oh 304 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 4: this interview. 305 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 5: No, I just sometimes I don't think too hard, and 306 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 5: it's like instinctive yes, or no answers, and I'm. 307 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 3: Like shy s to take more time and just think 308 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 3: things through. 309 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 4: So who were those other influences as you were, uh 310 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 4: growing into the business that were musical influences on you? 311 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 3: The best ones? You know. 312 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 5: I didn't have any kind of heartbreaking music till I 313 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 5: was much older. The first songwriter that I fell in 314 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 5: love with was uh Cindy Walker, and I got to 315 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 5: play for her seventieth birthday party and become friends with her, 316 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 5: and uh the first side person I ever saw that 317 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 5: was a woman was Bobby Nelson and by recently, UH 318 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 5: me and my friend Lawrence Rothman, a producer, were we 319 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 5: both produced a record on her before she passed away, 320 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 5: and we're almost done with it and it's beautiful. There's 321 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 5: a song she wrote on it. I don't know if 322 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 5: you're familiar with her work, but no, she taught uh 323 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 5: Willie Nel. She's Willilssen's brother, I mean sister, and she 324 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 5: taught him most everything he knows about music. And she 325 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 5: was in this band and then she wasn't for a 326 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 5: minute cause they called her an unfit mother for doing that. 327 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 5: And then you know, went went back to work and 328 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 5: and became what society calls a fit mother and and 329 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 5: demoed Hammond b three Organs the one they came out 330 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 5: and all that, and then returned to his band later 331 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 5: and until the end there and uh, she was always 332 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 5: playing the piano wearing a black cat. And I did 333 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 5: a uh we did that record on her. It came 334 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 5: out great. She even has a song on it. She wrote, sorry, 335 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 5: my ringer was going off. It's not a real cat. 336 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 5: I find the alarms on phones very alarming. So I 337 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 5: have on a cat, So that's good. 338 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: I like that better. 339 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 3: I don't have a cat, but I have a cat. 340 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: A cat. 341 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 342 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 4: So you're but the influences that you have I find 343 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 4: so r remarkable. 344 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 3: You are. 345 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 4: Across so many different generations and types of styles. And 346 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 4: one of the people I'm fascinated by that I know 347 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 4: you're fascinated with is Leonard Cohen. 348 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: When did data attraction occur? 349 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. 350 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 5: Okay, So I was working at the record store in Lubbock, Texas, 351 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 5: because I you know, I'm a heart. 352 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 3: It's like this thing about the people that I. 353 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 5: Meet and and and and feel close to I think 354 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 5: has a lot to do with how is raised. So anyway, 355 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 5: all that to say, kind of gravitate to people with 356 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 5: real stories, in real life experience. And think I learned 357 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 5: a lot of that from my granddad. And then my 358 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 5: work ethic is also from been bred into me from 359 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 5: both sides, my dad's side and my mom's. 360 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 3: My granddad was a cotton. 361 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 5: Picker before he became uh uh a a nurseryman, a 362 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 5: man that grows plants and greenhouses and things, and had 363 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 5: becon orchards and peach orchards, and we'd have to pick 364 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 5: things and sell them. But I have a work ethic, 365 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 5: and I always feel funny if I'm not working. So 366 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 5: when I wasn't playing with a playboye or doing school work, 367 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 5: I would uh work at the record store. And this 368 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 5: guy I was working with named Jake, all he would 369 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 5: play was Fugazi. 370 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 3: And I don't know if you've ever heard that. 371 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: But. 372 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 5: Let me just tell you, I can put up with 373 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 5: a lot of things for a long time, but two 374 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 5: weeks of fougazi'll drive anyone bonkers. I mean, uh and 375 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 5: I s I I lost my patients, and I said, 376 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 5: this is it, this is it. I don't care that 377 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 5: you're six seven and you weigh three hundred pounds I'm 378 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 5: not putting up with this anymore. And he said, he said, 379 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 5: when the last song's over, if you don't have a 380 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 5: record in on it, it's it's it's gonna be the 381 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 5: next Fugazi record. And I ran as fast as I 382 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 5: could to the aisle where I'd been staring at this 383 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 5: Leonard Cohen record and I'd never heard it or anything. 384 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 5: I just the picture once again, or the look of it. 385 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 5: W looked interesting. The eyes, it was something about the eyes. 386 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 5: And I put it on and and he was like, oh, 387 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 5: I love Leonard Cohen. 388 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 3: And I was like, well, hell, yes, this is a win. 389 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 3: I was like, who's Leonard Cohen? 390 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 5: And and then the record was playing and then I 391 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 5: was like, who is Leonard Cohen? 392 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 3: So I took Leonard Cohen home with me in record. 393 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 5: For him and UH dove in and and found that 394 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 5: that a lot of our you know, by reading and 395 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 5: watching every M documentary and interview and finding every kind 396 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 5: of UH boot legs that I could have interviews and 397 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 5: everything with within the business that I could get my 398 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 5: hands on, I feel like a a kinship and I 399 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 5: feel like a lot of things about you know, him 400 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 5: and me a line and that we would have been 401 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 5: a perfect couple had he not died. 402 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, I had no kidding. 403 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 3: He would have been married. He would have finally found 404 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 3: his wife. 405 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 5: You know, he never got married because it was always 406 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 5: supposed to be me. 407 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: So you never got to come to the opportunity to 408 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: meet him or Hi. 409 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 3: No, I didn't do. 410 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: Would you in awe? Would you have been to in 411 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: awe to to run into him? 412 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 3: No? 413 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 5: No, no, But I I have met I've met his 414 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 5: band members and managers and all kinds of people. 415 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 3: I found his coat hanger once and I kept it, 416 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 3: still have it. 417 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 5: Uh it was at a club that he had left 418 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 5: it behind on accident, so I kept it. I had 419 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 5: never met him, but but I think that I would 420 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 5: be comfortable just sitting there not saying anything, and and 421 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 5: I think that, uh, he would be too. And since 422 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,479 Speaker 5: he's not here to disagree with, you will have to 423 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 5: just assume that's true. 424 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 3: Thunderclap Ye yeah, exactly, exactly. 425 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 4: Exactly where did you get the notion that I know 426 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 4: is important to you of play it like it's the 427 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 4: last time you'll. 428 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: Ever play it. 429 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 5: That's Texas Playboys. That was from the Texas And they 430 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 5: also said, if you're not proud of it. Don't do it, 431 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 5: Frankie specifically, it play it like the l it's the 432 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 5: last time you're ever gonna play. 433 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 3: It, cause you don't get to you don't. It's easy 434 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 3: to walk. 435 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 5: Through things like you've done it because you've done it 436 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 5: a few times. It's easy to to think, oh, I'm 437 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 5: gonna play this song. 438 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 3: I play it every day. 439 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 5: But that's that's not how that's not the spirit of music. 440 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 5: You know, for the real connection with people, you gotta 441 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 5: be in the song and you've gotta mean it. And 442 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 5: as Bobby Koeper the steel player would say, you gotta 443 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 5: sell it. 444 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: But that's a metaphor for how you live your life, 445 00:21:59,080 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: isn't it really? 446 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 3: Definitely? 447 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 5: And i'd I think to has something to do with 448 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 5: them coming in and me learning and my early development, 449 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 5: because you know, my frontal lobe wasn't developed till I 450 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 5: was like twenty four or twenty five. So a lot 451 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 5: of the things that they told me and and taught 452 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 5: me still stick with me to this day. Like I 453 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 5: could show everybody in any room where their their tire 454 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 5: pressure sticker is and how to make sure their tires 455 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 5: are good and ready for the trip to Lipscombe, Texas. 456 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 3: Yeah I could. Yeah, I can look at. 457 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 5: 'em and tell you, yeah, I do live my life 458 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 5: like that. 459 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 3: You know it. 460 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 5: It's important you realize that as you get older. But 461 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 5: I also think that I I realized that a lot 462 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 5: when I was young, because my friends. 463 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 4: Were very old, and you didn't just look at them 464 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 4: as old, you look at them as wise. 465 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 5: I didn't l even really notice their age by the 466 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 5: way they acted. 467 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 3: You know. 468 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 5: A couple of 'em had many girlfriends and Andy and 469 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 5: I didn't say boo about it because the understood you don't. 470 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 5: You know, they were gentlemen about it. The the couple 471 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 5: of them that did. I do remember walking out of 472 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 5: the hotel. My hotel room wants to go to breakfast 473 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 5: at the hotel lobby and uh, one of the Texas 474 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 5: playboys was al escorted a lady to her car, and 475 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 5: I was like, oh, I did not know that she 476 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 5: was gonna be here all night and interesting, wonder. 477 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 3: What she thinks about that. 478 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 5: Then I was like, I'm not gonna say anything. And 479 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 5: he looked at me and he said breakfast and I said, yep, 480 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 5: that was awesome, but you know it was ah, I 481 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 5: didn't see them as old or anything. They were very 482 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 5: uh witty, and most of them had had great retention. 483 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:46,239 Speaker 5: There was there and wonderful stories and they had you know, 484 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,959 Speaker 5: they're in inner band stories and jokes and all that, 485 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 5: and it was very fun. And yeah, I didn't see 486 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 5: them as old, but I did start seeing them as 487 00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 5: old when they started passing away. But there's your heart, 488 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 5: oh yeah, and we still we've got this music here, right, 489 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 5: They're not gone forever. 490 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 3: The music's still there. 491 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: So when did you first encounter John Prime? 492 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 5: Well, to to know when I first heard him, it's 493 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 5: hard to say. I think everybody's heard him their whole lives. 494 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 5: But it was long at this It was three days 495 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 5: before this picture was taken. Interesting, you're asking about the 496 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 5: things I have pictures of. So three days before this 497 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 5: picture I got to play my first shows with John Prime, 498 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 5: opening and then joining his band. And on the he 499 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 5: had me for three shows to try it out, you know, 500 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 5: like we're going to just have you open three shows, 501 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 5: see how that goes. And so I went and opened 502 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 5: the three shows. And I was driving a a fod 503 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 5: o'conno line van, you know, and I dress up for 504 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 5: the shows, but for long drives, I fit. I find 505 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 5: that pointless. And so I was wearing this that I 506 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 5: found at the target, and my friend Kelly was wearing 507 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 5: her little leopard one in my bass player was wearing 508 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 5: a matching one like mine. 509 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 3: And and uh, I got to the sound check it. 510 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 3: There was a long drive. 511 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 5: Between one of the one of these shows, and I 512 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 5: was still in it cause it didn't have time to 513 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 5: change for sound check, and he had just finished his 514 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 5: sound check, and uh, he said, Man, if they had 515 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 5: one of those in a sock monkey, I'd wear it. 516 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 3: I said, I said really, And I said, are you serious? 517 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 3: Because you know was twenty six dollars. There's a lot 518 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 3: of money. 519 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 5: And if I'm gonna find a s if I find one, 520 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 5: there's a sock monkey, you better wear it. And and 521 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 5: and then he said, if there was, I would. And 522 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 5: on the last day of the last day of those 523 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 5: three shows, I got him some white wine, uh cause 524 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 5: I heard he liked that, and I made him a 525 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 5: a a a partying gift. And then it was a 526 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 5: sock monkey, uh onesie and I Uh, before I went 527 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 5: to do my set, I I put it in his 528 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:01,479 Speaker 5: dressing room and then uh, during my set, he he 529 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 5: came to the wings of the stage wearing it, and 530 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 5: I was I was like, what the hell has happened? 531 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 5: Like I lost all of sense of what was happening. 532 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 5: I was like John Brien's in a sock monkey outfit 533 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 5: and he was in the wings. 534 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 3: He just walked off. Nobody believed me. 535 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 5: And this is uh, this is oh he had took 536 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 5: the top down. I have another picture where he's still 537 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 5: wearing it. And and I took that little polaroid that 538 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 5: day and he signed it and and. 539 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 3: That was our first experience together. And then he called 540 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 3: me to do more shows. 541 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 5: And then I toured all over uh, Europe and in 542 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:39,239 Speaker 5: the UK and Canada and and mm you know all 543 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 5: those all those places n New Bruns, New Brunswick, Boom 544 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 5: Brunswick and Boosting, all the places I toured around with him, 545 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 5: and uh, a lot of the times he would drive 546 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 5: his own car, the rental car, and so I'd ride 547 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 5: with him a lot, and overseas we'd take you know, 548 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 5: little little planes here and there and drive some but 549 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 5: not really trains. 550 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 3: We did mostly trains and flights over there. 551 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,719 Speaker 5: And we'd always sit together and hang out together and 552 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 5: talk and yeah, we're just really good friends and talked 553 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,199 Speaker 5: a lot about rhyming cause, uh cause I was finishing 554 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 5: up my master's thesis in poetry when I was on 555 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 5: that last tour with him, and he was like, how 556 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 5: are you doing this if you don't have any books? 557 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 5: And I said, oh, I have, I have my I 558 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 5: have my rhyming dictionary on my computer. I have all 559 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 5: this different that I have these apps. And then he 560 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 5: was like, you could get a rhyming dictionary on your phone. 561 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 5: And he was like, can you do that to mine? 562 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 5: And I was like yeah, and he was like, here 563 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 5: you can have all the these books. I was like, 564 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 5: you carry those around. But so then we started talking 565 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,360 Speaker 5: about that, and then we started talking about, you know, 566 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 5: the the little tools we use rhyming and and all that. 567 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 5: This is not just one conversation. That's where it started 568 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 5: becoming like uh it was. It was during t a 569 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 5: forgiveness and we were that end part where he's talking 570 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 5: about the uh sypholtic critics and all that. 571 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 3: At the end that's. 572 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 5: When we were on the plane just just seeing. 573 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 3: How far we can take the rhyme, you know. 574 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 5: Yeah, And that was without the app because we were 575 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 5: in the air and we couldn't download it. But which 576 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 5: I did save him the trouble and downloaded it for 577 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 5: him later when we landed. But but we started talking 578 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 5: a lot about rhyme and showing each other's songs and 579 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 5: in early form and stages too. And then I got 580 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 5: to see how he did it and how he worked 581 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,360 Speaker 5: and and I didn't take that lightly. 582 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 3: You know. 583 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 5: And I asked him questions, know, and he'd give me 584 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 5: real answers, and he did. And I feel like I 585 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,959 Speaker 5: learned a lot of things from him, you know. I 586 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 5: used to try and avoid the dead on rhymes, and 587 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 5: he said, it to a song, that's what you s 588 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 5: How else are they gonna remember it? If we're doing 589 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 5: near rhymes so much, it's not gonna they're not gonna. 590 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 3: Remember the words. 591 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 5: And I was like, you're right, And I said, well, 592 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 5: then how am I gonna make it different? And he 593 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 5: was like, wall g you gotta put the details in there, 594 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 5: the details of the story and all. That's what what 595 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 5: makes it different to the experience of another. And he said, also, 596 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 5: you're a different person than the other songwriter, so it's 597 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 5: always gonna be different. And everybody's bringing their own experiences 598 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 5: and their own take on the world to a song. 599 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 3: And that's why my little room are the same. 600 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 4: You know, you made a deal with him when he 601 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 4: wanted you to go out on the road. 602 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,479 Speaker 1: Didn't you ju about a particular song he got? Yeah, 603 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: Well can you just talk about that? Ye got two songs? 604 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 3: Two? Yeah? I told him. 605 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 5: He called and he was like, can you do this 606 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 5: Europe run with me? It's it's about six weeks almost 607 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 5: seven really, And I said, I don't know. 608 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 3: And it was. 609 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 5: It was during Easter, too, which at that time was 610 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 5: Mercy's favorite holiday, my daughter, and she loved it because 611 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 5: she liked to f find things and also eat candy 612 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 5: to that's what you do when you're two and three, 613 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 5: you love Easter and because you like to eat candy 614 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 5: and going to scavender haunts and digging and bushes. 615 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 3: Oh anyway, it's fun. It's fun, you know. 616 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 5: With with motherhood, you get it a fresh look on 617 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 5: what childhood really looks like that you didn't see in 618 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 5: your own experience, and it's that can be helpful. But 619 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 5: all that to say, I said, I don't know, John, 620 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 5: that's a long time to be going, you know from 621 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 5: my family. I mean, I wh it was his good Mercy. 622 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 5: He'll later grow up and like be like you weren't 623 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 5: here with me on Easter and all this kind of 624 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 5: stuff and and he said, sh she probably won't remember 625 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 5: that at all. He said, I really need you to 626 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 5: go on tour and I was like okay, and he said, 627 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 5: well it'll be double duty. You'll be open in the 628 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 5: show and then joining me for the whole duration of 629 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 5: the of the music. And I said, well, you know, 630 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 5: there's only one thing I'm good at, John, and that's music, 631 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 5: So I can do that. But but I don't know. 632 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 5: And I was like, what's it pay? He was like, 633 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 5: you know, normal pay and I was like, well, we 634 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 5: gotta put something else in there. 635 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 3: And uh. He said, well what do you want? 636 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,959 Speaker 5: And I said, well, I'll do it, but only if 637 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 5: you bring two songs into the set. 638 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 3: Has to be these two songs. And he said, I 639 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,239 Speaker 3: bet I could do that. What songs are they are? They? 640 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 5: Are they my songs? And he was like yeah. I 641 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 5: was like, you have, of course, are your songs? What 642 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 5: am I gonna do? Say, play a lyric going song 643 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 5: and I and I said, first we gotta bring back 644 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 5: clocks and spoons and he's like, I don't know about 645 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 5: that because I feel like that song is is too 646 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 5: sad for for me at this point in my life. 647 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 3: And I was like, well, it's your song. 648 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 5: Can't you just make it less sad and and uh 649 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 5: and and he said, I think about that. And I 650 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 5: said the other song is Saddle in the Rain. I 651 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 5: love playing that song. And he said, okay, yeah, we 652 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 5: can play Saddle in the Rain. 653 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 3: And then. 654 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 5: I printed the words out to clocks and spoons and 655 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 5: I have it in my office and I showed it 656 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 5: to him. I was like, what part of it's said? 657 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 5: And he said that part about shoot the moon right 658 00:31:53,960 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 5: between the eyes, I'm screaming. And he said something about 659 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 5: when he wrote that, he was in a different place 660 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 5: than he was now because as life happened, with the 661 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 5: good and the bed, it's all beautiful. 662 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 3: And he said, I'm gonna change that to singing, and 663 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 3: I said, are we doing it? He said, We're gonna 664 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 3: do it, and so we did. 665 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 5: Both of them, and when we played it live from 666 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 5: then on, we'd we'd sing them shoot them right between 667 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 5: the eyes. 668 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 3: I'm singing. 669 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. 670 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 4: So this little band that you spearheaded, called the High Women, 671 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 4: congratulations on that. 672 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 5: Well, thank you, Thank you started out as it a 673 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 5: tiny idea I had in twenty sixteen when I went 674 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 5: on tour which on Prine and then my own solo tours. 675 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: What an amazing triumph. 676 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 4: And had you known your other collaborators on the High 677 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 4: Women before? 678 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 5: Oh, I'm only in passing like I met Marion when 679 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 5: she was young, like about twelve or thirteen. 680 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 3: We were playing at a festival. 681 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 5: I was playing fiddle ed playing with Billy Joe Shaver, 682 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 5: and I saw her mom dragging her around the campfires 683 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 5: and singing, and she had an incredible voice. In then 684 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 5: i'd you know, she's a Texan, so i'd heard she 685 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 5: moved to Town at some point. But I was touring 686 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 5: with between between writing songs and waiting tables to to 687 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 5: pay for the recordings that I would do later on 688 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 5: my own as as an artist. I was also playing 689 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 5: as a side person for justin Town's Earl and other 690 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 5: folks whoever would have me that I that I thought 691 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 5: I could learn something from and so I didn't hear 692 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 5: from her much. I would see, you know, in passing 693 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 5: on social media that she seemed to be doing well. 694 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 5: But the producer friend I made, Dave Cobb, was the 695 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 5: first person. I told my idea too. After I'd kind 696 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 5: of so like it does it seem like I I 697 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 5: I'd sit quietly by being here with me, But this 698 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 5: is what my natural go to around people is to 699 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 5: get real nervous and talk and but in real and 700 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 5: my real spending of time, I sit in here and 701 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 5: out stare at things or I do you know, slow things, 702 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 5: thinking things, play music. I was working on how to 703 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 5: describe what I wanted to do with the music and 704 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 5: the idea and attention intention of the band. M you know, 705 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 5: I make lots of notes and I'd been paying attention 706 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 5: to radio stations at that time. I I I I 707 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 5: I figured out the the the pictures of what I 708 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 5: wanted to do in my mind, and I'd write notes 709 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 5: and try to figure it out. And I'm mm the 710 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 5: end of two thousand seventeen or eighteen beginning. I I 711 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 5: told Dave Cobb when I was there working on a session, 712 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 5: I said, I can't remember. 713 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 3: If I was singing or playing the fiddle or what 714 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 3: I was doing. 715 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 5: But at the end of it, I said, so, I've 716 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,479 Speaker 5: been having this idea and we've been friends for a while, 717 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 5: so he's patient and was willing to hear me out. 718 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,919 Speaker 5: And that's one of the great things about producers is 719 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 5: is the good ones are very patient and and they 720 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 5: also know what it's like to try and translate what 721 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 5: an artist has in their mind. So they're patient with 722 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 5: you and they're listening and they're not like, whoa, you 723 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 5: look crazy? What are you saying? They never do that. 724 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 5: That's why it's always cool if you're with a good 725 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 5: producer that's you know, clear at the time, and you're 726 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:22,399 Speaker 5: talking seriously, cause they'll give you that time. But I said, 727 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 5: I wanna start this group, and I said here's the rest. 728 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,760 Speaker 5: And I was scared to say it because it sounds 729 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 5: kind of crazy. I said, I wants to be called 730 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 5: the High Women. And he said the High Women. And 731 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 5: I was like, not like high, like is it I 732 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 5: got high? But like is it high as in like 733 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 5: you know, exalted, like you know, like you know, w 734 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 5: and taking the high road and all that kind of stuff, 735 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 5: you know, And. 736 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,399 Speaker 3: He was like, I love it. And I said, here's 737 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 3: the other thing I wanna do. I wanna rewrite that song. 738 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 5: It's gonna be like if you could picture this, cause 739 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 5: this is how I describe things in pictures. I said, 740 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 5: if you could picture a record, it'll be like, imagine 741 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,919 Speaker 5: that the songs are a tree. So the main part 742 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 5: of the tree is like you know, there's the roots, 743 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 5: but the the centerpiece of the record will be the 744 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 5: high w WM Women's song that that I'm try to rewrite, 745 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 5: you know, and the rest of it'll be like other 746 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 5: stories that come off of it, like the branches. And 747 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,919 Speaker 5: he was like, that's a fantastic idea. And I said, 748 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 5: there's not gonna be a tree on the cover though, 749 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 5: you know, like cause like sometimes you if you just 750 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 5: don't just leave the tree out of it. I'm just 751 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 5: trying to tell you by idea. But he's really good 752 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 5: with that. And and I don't wanna be I don't 753 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 5: wanna be sassy music. And I don't want it to 754 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 5: look distressed. I want it to like look. 755 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 3: Like like what we're trying to do. 756 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,879 Speaker 5: But I also want it to take it, take it 757 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 5: back to what it's supposed to be and like where 758 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 5: we can sing about more than unrequited love or that 759 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,280 Speaker 5: we really miss our man, or that we're gonna whatever 760 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:57,359 Speaker 5: we're gonna do, go out m burn some lady's house down. 761 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 5: I don't know, those are fun but we also need 762 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 5: to other stuff on the radio too, or not on 763 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,439 Speaker 5: the radio, just that people know that we're out there 764 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 5: and they can identify with us if they feel the 765 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 5: same and support each. 766 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,240 Speaker 3: Other and all this. And he said that's a great idea, 767 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 3: and I said, okay. He said you should call Brandy Carlyle. 768 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 5: And I didn't call her, and then, uh, next time 769 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 5: I saw him, I thought he would have forgotten, but 770 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 5: he said, he said, so, did you call Brandy Carlyle 771 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 5: or the idea is really good? 772 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 3: And and I said, I can't just cold call Brandy Carlyle. 773 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:28,479 Speaker 3: What am I gonna say? 774 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 5: Like, I'm gonna start laying into this big, long, weird 775 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 5: story about the high women idea and what's that? And 776 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 5: I I just I said, I just don't. I'm just 777 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 5: not gonna call her and talk about this. This is 778 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 5: this is just a hard thing to explain over the phone. 779 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 5: I think, like I I th I don't know. I 780 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 5: just don't know about this. I was like, why don't 781 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 5: you do it? And he said no. He said, she's 782 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 5: playing tonight and we'll go down there and see her. 783 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 3: I'll introduce you and you'll tell her then. 784 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 5: And I I said, okay, uh, I'll go there and 785 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 5: we'll see what happens, you know. And we went to 786 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 5: the basement, to the new basement of the time, I think, 787 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 5: seemed like that's where it was. 788 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 3: And he walked straight back into the back green. 789 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 5: Room and he said, this is Brandy Carlile, Brandy Carlilli, 790 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 5: this is Amanda Shires and and she was very. 791 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 3: Clearly about to walk up on the stage and sing 792 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 3: like she was like. 793 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 5: She had given her wife a hug and was walking 794 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 5: on the stage turning over. 795 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 3: And I said, I'm. 796 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 5: Amanda Shyars, and I have this idea and we're gonna 797 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 5: start a band. It's called the Highwaymen, and we're gonna 798 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 5: do this this or not. And she's she looked at 799 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 5: me and she said, Hi, Amanda Friars, this, how about 800 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 5: we talk about this some more or later. 801 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 3: I said okay, And then and I c and then 802 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 3: I called an Ober and left. 803 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 5: And and they gave her my number, and then we'd 804 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,280 Speaker 5: talked later and started talking more about it, and they've 805 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 5: introduced us to Natalie Hemby, who at that time was 806 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 5: just we were just writing with her on different things, 807 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 5: and we were writing with different folks just to see 808 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 5: what we could do. And one of the days of 809 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 5: the of the session that me and Brandy were doing, 810 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 5: cause really it was just me and Brandy at first, 811 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 5: but during the session, Natalie came over cause we wanted 812 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 5: her to sing, because you know, we've developed this friendship, 813 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 5: and she sang, and then I got. 814 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 3: Down on one knee and I said, would you please 815 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 3: join our band? And she said, oh, I don't know. 816 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,959 Speaker 5: And then Brandy said you really should, you really should, 817 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,359 Speaker 5: we should to join our band, and she said, we're 818 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 5: playing with Dolly at Newport, and you could be in 819 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 5: our band and go play with us and sing with 820 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,240 Speaker 5: us and meet Dolly. 821 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 3: And then Natalie said, well, I'm in. And Brandy called Marin. 822 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 3: Brandy called Maren. 823 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 5: Maren was at Fallon or something, and Brandy said, hey, 824 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 5: come sing some songs on the Highwayman record. Bring two 825 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,399 Speaker 5: songs that you like of yours that you think would 826 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 5: fit what we're doing. And she said okay. And that 827 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,799 Speaker 5: was such a good time that we kept her in 828 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 5: there and and then made her join a band and 829 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 5: wrote some more in the studio together, and yeah, and 830 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 5: then I was thinking, you know, wouldn't it be cool 831 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 5: if some other people could. 832 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 3: Come and go. 833 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 5: Cause the idea of the of the group two is 834 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 5: because it's our uh second group to. 835 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,840 Speaker 6: All of our own individual careers. 836 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 5: Is like if somebody needed to take a break and 837 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 5: have babies, or somebody's parents were sick, or if they 838 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 5: just needed time out. 839 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 3: Off for mental purposes or whatever, they could. 840 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 5: Just go do that, and we'd expand the platform, like 841 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 5: let somebody else come sing in their stead. And and 842 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,279 Speaker 5: even if you weren't in the original four that made 843 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 5: the record it, we are high Women and we accept all, 844 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 5: like whoever wants to play any instrument or sing or 845 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 5: even if your uh, you know, gender isn't to you know, 846 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 5: female or non binary or whatever, you could still come 847 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,959 Speaker 5: be in our group too. You could be in our group, 848 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,240 Speaker 5: doesn't matter your your your race or creed or your 849 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,760 Speaker 5: your or anything. 850 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:01,240 Speaker 3: We're open. 851 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 5: We're high women, you know. And Jason even has the 852 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 5: High Women tattoo and it's awesome. So Cheryl Crow came 853 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,839 Speaker 5: and played the bass, and we've had guests like maybe 854 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 5: Staples sing with us, and just just anybody that'll sing 855 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 5: with us. We do that and and invited Brittany Spencer 856 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 5: to be a part of it. Recently and we're gonna 857 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 5: go appear together at Maren's final concert of this tour 858 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,760 Speaker 5: this weekend at the Bridge Stoe. 859 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:30,719 Speaker 3: And well, that's just made up my mind. 860 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 1: I wasn't sure where I was gonna go. 861 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're gonna We're gonna sing a couple songs. 862 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 5: And then. 863 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 3: When does this podcast air? 864 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: This is gonna this is now twenty twenty three. 865 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 3: Okay, So then. 866 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 5: The next day we're gonna fly down to the Kennedy 867 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 5: Center Honors and play there and the High Women and 868 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 5: at the at the Maren show, Uh, britt Brandy won't 869 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,320 Speaker 5: be there, but Cheryl and Brittany will. But then the 870 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 5: next day we're gonna go play at the Kennedy Center 871 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 5: Honors and meet the President. And I still haven't figured 872 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:01,840 Speaker 5: out what to wear to that, and I'll i'd, I 873 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,919 Speaker 5: honestly don't know what to do in those kind of things. 874 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 5: Have to watch some youtubes about where the quks and 875 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 5: knives go on the place. You know, I'm good at 876 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 5: sitting up still, sitting up straight and having a good posture, 877 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 5: but like having like not fidgeting and having a poker 878 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 5: face at a not poker table or a not craps 879 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:20,879 Speaker 5: table or a not black check table. 880 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 3: It's just not me Like I I. 881 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 6: Can play, I can I can gamble, but like it's 882 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:27,400 Speaker 6: hard to sis still. 883 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 3: At one of these things. 884 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: So will there be another High Woman album? 885 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 5: I think so the the when I think about it, 886 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,359 Speaker 5: when I've been noticing on a phone, you know, we've 887 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 5: been playing more shows recently, making more appearances, and we 888 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 5: all put up out our own records. See this is 889 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 5: how I lead with the art. I'm doing it right now, 890 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 5: so I'm not for sooner doing anything, but I kind 891 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,319 Speaker 5: of know already. You let it kind of happen. There's 892 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,359 Speaker 5: less of us sending pictures of our kids and what 893 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,880 Speaker 5: we're cooking, and it's turned into more about like song ideas. 894 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 5: Like even in passing at the Lorettolni thing, me and 895 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 5: Natalie's had a song idea unconsciously we all know that 896 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 5: that's happening. 897 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 1: But that's just honesty, right and oh yeah, I'm yeah. 898 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 6: And then also not getting in the way of the 899 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 6: of the intention. 900 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,440 Speaker 5: Cause so it's easy to be told by folks on 901 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 5: the outside or by any anybody any kind of influence, 902 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 5: like if y'all toured or did this, you could make 903 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,799 Speaker 5: so much money and all that. Or if you did that, 904 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 5: and you did that, you make so much money. Yeah, 905 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,360 Speaker 5: we'd make money for ourselves and others. But that's not 906 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 5: why we started it. Like it's our group that we 907 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 5: do to affect change. And like I said, we do 908 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 5: our individual artistry. That's our identities, you know, And and 909 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,840 Speaker 5: you have to maintain your own before you can be 910 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 5: in service of of of another identity as as a 911 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 5: different part to them in the bigger collective. And but 912 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,399 Speaker 5: naturally it feels like it's it's that way, cause if 913 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,560 Speaker 5: you look at it, just like from the outside, everybody 914 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 5: put out records and they've toured 'em. 915 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 3: Kind of was a bumber. 916 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 5: Which after when COVID happened, cause we had shows planned 917 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,360 Speaker 5: and things like that, and then we all took financial 918 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,360 Speaker 5: hits and stuff because of that, and we all survived 919 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 5: it and made records to put 'em out, and you know, 920 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,400 Speaker 5: feels like the world's writing itself and in the direction 921 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 5: where we could think, you know, happily and positively again 922 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 5: about not getting our hearts broken. 923 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 1: That way, congratulations and take it like a man. Ah, 924 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,359 Speaker 1: thanks my god, thank you. 925 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,440 Speaker 4: That Now, how long of a process that was during 926 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,879 Speaker 4: COVID that you that you worked on that. 927 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 3: Right, I got. 928 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 5: I was disenchanted with all of it during COVID. I 929 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,880 Speaker 5: think I was working myself to burn out. There's all 930 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,320 Speaker 5: kind of things going on. M I write every day, 931 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 5: and it's not necessarily for songs. It's just to keep 932 00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 5: the pin sharp. And I also do poems. I have 933 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 5: a mass and poetry. I've published one and decided that 934 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,359 Speaker 5: I would wait until I had a whole book before 935 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,279 Speaker 5: I published a whole collection, and not pressuring myself to 936 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 5: finish it cause I want it to be done with 937 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 5: the right choices behind it, and not ever be influenced 938 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,239 Speaker 5: by things like deadlines or advances. I don't even want 939 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 5: an advance. Just wanna turn in a done book and 940 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 5: and not have anybody edit. I mean not have anybody 941 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,760 Speaker 5: say boo about it or offer their input on the collection, 942 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,279 Speaker 5: cause I'm the one sitting with it. 943 00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 3: All day anyway. 944 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 5: But they can't edit it and decide which ones they 945 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:37,080 Speaker 5: want out. They just can't tell me to write more. Yeah, yeah, 946 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 5: but anyway, so when I get there, I'll get there. 947 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 5: The problem is this, I'm Amanda Shires, and I play 948 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,920 Speaker 5: the fiddle, and I learned to play western swing and country. 949 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:46,440 Speaker 3: I grew up doing it. 950 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 5: I also learned at the same time how to play 951 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,520 Speaker 5: in rock and roll bands, cause nobody was playing country 952 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:53,360 Speaker 5: or western swing. 953 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 3: And I also learned how. 954 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,279 Speaker 6: To play classical cause I loved it. 955 00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,319 Speaker 5: And I also learned a little bit of bluegrass, but 956 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,759 Speaker 5: not too much, and cause western swing folks would get mad, 957 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,880 Speaker 5: and and so I was very well versed on this instrument. 958 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,719 Speaker 5: Now at the same time, growing up, fiddle is not 959 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:12,760 Speaker 5: a popular instrument. 960 00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:14,759 Speaker 3: You where you gonna do with that? 961 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 5: You know, there's not a lot of lead people, lead 962 00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,400 Speaker 5: singers and rock bands to play the fiddle. 963 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 1: The band had a little run with that. 964 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 6: I mean, I mean they did, and Bowie had a 965 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,439 Speaker 6: little bit of a fiddle player, but. 966 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,560 Speaker 5: It was like you ever learnt The artists though, y 967 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:32,960 Speaker 5: like Charlie Daniels, but that's country and all that. And 968 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 5: then what I do is more like I do like 969 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 5: kind of like rock and country and you know, folk 970 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,840 Speaker 5: songs and songs of the people or whatever what people 971 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,920 Speaker 5: now call songwriter music or Americana. But I p I 972 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,799 Speaker 5: take it kind of further, like I try to, I 973 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,520 Speaker 5: try to make new sounds and keep the instrument you know, 974 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 5: going to further in like with the like with with 975 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,200 Speaker 5: people my own age and people younger, cause you could 976 00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 5: see classical violin that's the thing people do, and sometimes jazz. 977 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,520 Speaker 6: But in the in the mainstream part of the world, 978 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:05,960 Speaker 6: there's not a lot of folks doing it. 979 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:12,240 Speaker 4: Really, Lawrence gave you some added confidence for your mission. 980 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 3: Did they did? But yeah, they did, he said. 981 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,839 Speaker 5: He said, you know a lot of people when they 982 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,160 Speaker 5: see the fiddle, they want to make me more country, 983 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:21,440 Speaker 5: you know. 984 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:23,839 Speaker 3: And I like country, I love it and all that, 985 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:24,360 Speaker 3: and I get it. 986 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,600 Speaker 5: But I'm not trying to do what's already been done, 987 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 5: and I knocked at all countries has been done. I'm 988 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:30,799 Speaker 5: trying to I have a thing I'm trying to do. 989 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,360 Speaker 5: Even though I broke my finger in twenty eleven and 990 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,839 Speaker 5: still have three pins in it on my fiddle playing finger, 991 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,600 Speaker 5: I can still get down and jam the hell out 992 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,800 Speaker 5: of it, Like if we were in a dueling fiddle 993 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,400 Speaker 5: situation or cutting heads, as Jason was saying, you were 994 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,640 Speaker 5: having like a fiddle off, or even with guitar players. 995 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,319 Speaker 5: I can out solo some of the best of them. 996 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:53,880 Speaker 5: And if you don't believe me, get me on that stage, 997 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 5: and I will show you your ass. And so what 998 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 5: they did is they don't try to make me do 999 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 5: They're just like like me in service of the song. 1000 00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,640 Speaker 5: They're not like, oh, we can't do effect pedals on 1001 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,080 Speaker 5: your fiddle and do effects like guitar players use all 1002 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 5: these cool pedals. Why can't I because it's a fiddle 1003 00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,680 Speaker 5: when you have to stay country and I like country, 1004 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,239 Speaker 5: but country tends to go forward too. We're not all 1005 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,799 Speaker 5: singing like Hank Snow right now. I love one, but 1006 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,399 Speaker 5: we're not all singing like Hank Snow right now. 1007 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:26,040 Speaker 4: So if somebody was just dropped onto this planet and 1008 00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,560 Speaker 4: had never experienced music in their life, how would you 1009 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,359 Speaker 4: explain to them how important music is and what it 1010 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,840 Speaker 4: does and why it's so a part of our lives. 1011 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 3: What was our first language? 1012 00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,600 Speaker 6: Uh, we didn't really have a language before music. 1013 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,320 Speaker 5: We'd kind of communicated with little rhythms and grunts and sounds. 1014 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:49,720 Speaker 5: And you know, apparently that's what I've been told singing 1015 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,279 Speaker 5: and and then connection, you know, whether or not like 1016 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:58,680 Speaker 5: past that idea doesn't matter what language you speak, Like 1017 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,120 Speaker 5: we've all been making joyful noises for a long time, 1018 00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,680 Speaker 5: Like it doesn't matter what language you speak. When you 1019 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,520 Speaker 5: put on music, you you can feel a way, feel 1020 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,120 Speaker 5: a certain way, and it makes you feel things in 1021 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:18,759 Speaker 5: in music also is so attached with our memories that 1022 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,879 Speaker 5: you can remember, Like if you hear a song, you'll 1023 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,080 Speaker 5: remember a detail about your own life or your own 1024 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,399 Speaker 5: something that re like occurs to you that you haven't 1025 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:27,319 Speaker 5: thought of it a long time. 1026 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:28,600 Speaker 3: It might won't make you. 1027 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 5: Like call somebody or think about something or change your 1028 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,760 Speaker 5: mind about something. Music has a power to change people's minds. 1029 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,719 Speaker 5: And more than that, like you get in a room 1030 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,760 Speaker 5: with people to see music. 1031 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 3: You're in that. 1032 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,920 Speaker 6: Room and it's like a synergy. 1033 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,759 Speaker 3: It works both ways. As a live concert, you've got 1034 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:47,120 Speaker 3: a community in music. 1035 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,120 Speaker 5: Uh, when you go out to a live show, you 1036 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,239 Speaker 5: know those people and yourself have something in common with 1037 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,000 Speaker 5: one another. So in that room you feel less alone 1038 00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 5: in the world. But if you hear songs too, it 1039 00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,920 Speaker 5: gives you language to your own emotions and feelings, Like 1040 00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,759 Speaker 5: how many times were we even younger or even grown ups? 1041 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,359 Speaker 5: Like now we do we say, oh, I was thinking 1042 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,080 Speaker 5: about you today, here's this song, or I'm sorry you're 1043 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,160 Speaker 5: going through that. There's a song that I like to 1044 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:19,160 Speaker 5: play Sometimes when I feel this way, or sometimes when 1045 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 5: you have nothing to say, you can just listen to music. 1046 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,439 Speaker 5: Not only is it the background to our lives here 1047 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,960 Speaker 5: this person that we've never met that's landing on our planet. Also, 1048 00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,719 Speaker 5: do you need uh something different than oxygen to bread? 1049 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,239 Speaker 5: While I tell you this skiller because if you're running low, 1050 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:34,799 Speaker 5: it's cool. 1051 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 3: I heard you live in a spaceship under the water. 1052 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 3: Is that true? Back to music. Let's talking to her 1053 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 3: invisible alien or whoever it was. 1054 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:48,520 Speaker 5: But you know, you could even play some music for 1055 00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,280 Speaker 5: for for this creature that that have we haven't named 1056 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,040 Speaker 5: and they probably have you ever read that book Stranger 1057 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:55,839 Speaker 5: in a Strange Land? 1058 00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:56,440 Speaker 1: No? 1059 00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:58,440 Speaker 4: I know the song. I have never read the book? 1060 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,080 Speaker 4: Is that Robert Heinlen? Thank yes, y, I have read it. 1061 00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,080 Speaker 4: That was many years ago. 1062 00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,120 Speaker 3: I could be mistaken. Was there a partner where he 1063 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,200 Speaker 3: hears music for the first time. I haven't read. 1064 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,960 Speaker 1: About six years. That's a good one to go back. 1065 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,239 Speaker 3: I wonder. But there's. 1066 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,000 Speaker 5: There's a thing that happens where you can feel it, 1067 00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:20,680 Speaker 5: or you can tap it out or not, or you 1068 00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:22,640 Speaker 5: can just hate it, like you could listen to Fugazi 1069 00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:23,440 Speaker 5: for two weeks. 1070 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:24,680 Speaker 3: And just want to turn it off. 1071 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,719 Speaker 5: I don't know there's things to like about it because 1072 00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:33,520 Speaker 5: it led me to Leonard Cohen. But it is if 1073 00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:35,160 Speaker 5: you paint, sing or even hold it to and you 1074 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:39,400 Speaker 5: don't have to play an instrument to enjoy. It's a 1075 00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,400 Speaker 5: place where you can oftentimes find common ground or conversation 1076 00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,080 Speaker 5: with folks if you have nothing to talk about it, 1077 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:46,920 Speaker 5: you can generally talk about music. 1078 00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 3: I don't know many people. 1079 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,840 Speaker 5: That you can't talk to about it, of course, except 1080 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,840 Speaker 5: for the hearing impaired, and there's a different way for 1081 00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,680 Speaker 5: music with that for sure, But then we'd have to 1082 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,319 Speaker 5: get into specifics of what type of music we're listening to. 1083 00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,520 Speaker 5: But anyway, all that to say, it's a connective and 1084 00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:09,800 Speaker 5: it's universal and it's I treat it very very seriously, 1085 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 5: Like I don't think myself seriously, but I take the 1086 00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,439 Speaker 5: music seriously cause it's an energy. Like if you're gonna 1087 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,240 Speaker 5: sing something, that energy go somewhere. 1088 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,480 Speaker 4: I like how you take a question inside out, do 1089 00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:23,080 Speaker 4: you find something on the the end of it to 1090 00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,160 Speaker 4: nip and tuck and poke at, And that's a that's 1091 00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,719 Speaker 4: a that's a fun way to take a question. I 1092 00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,520 Speaker 4: w I wasn't on my best behavior for it at first, 1093 00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,640 Speaker 4: but hopefully I'm I'm learning the Amanda Shire's way. 1094 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,759 Speaker 5: Oh it's uh, I I just I've been told I'm 1095 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,080 Speaker 5: a nonlinear thinker. 1096 00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:44,719 Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah, so you're attraction myself acceptance. 1097 00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:46,360 Speaker 5: I'm working on it because for a long time I 1098 00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,520 Speaker 5: I didn't like any part of the music business that 1099 00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,319 Speaker 5: wasn't the music because the interview part would freak me 1100 00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:53,080 Speaker 5: out because. 1101 00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:54,839 Speaker 3: I always get in my head about they're not gonna 1102 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,439 Speaker 3: understand me, and then I just look forward to self. 1103 00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,640 Speaker 5: They're like if they if they care, they'll if they 1104 00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,520 Speaker 5: care enough to interview, they're gonna put up with your 1105 00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:03,719 Speaker 5: nonlinear joking. 1106 00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:04,200 Speaker 3: You know. 1107 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,279 Speaker 1: Of course, No, it's very linear, and. 1108 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,960 Speaker 3: It's in a circle. It's a steady circle. 1109 00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,840 Speaker 4: It is, it is, but it's not a boring circle, 1110 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,160 Speaker 4: if by any stretch of the imagination. 1111 00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:18,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can ask me anything. 1112 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,400 Speaker 1: Now, So what about birds? 1113 00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,479 Speaker 5: So it's about freedom, and it's about the way they look, 1114 00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:30,239 Speaker 5: and it's about their traits and their unique to them 1115 00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,359 Speaker 5: things like you know with the crows and they can 1116 00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,120 Speaker 5: make tools. It's all very fascinating to me, how they 1117 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,080 Speaker 5: they're different bird calls and what they mean all that 1118 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:39,480 Speaker 5: I just that can't get over it. 1119 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,560 Speaker 1: Well, I think it's about the joy of them too. 1120 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,840 Speaker 3: You have the joy their magic though. 1121 00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,000 Speaker 1: Or they I mean, the joy is spectacular, you know. 1122 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,520 Speaker 3: And they don't seem to want for much. 1123 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,680 Speaker 5: You know, it's not like they're seeking a new car 1124 00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,080 Speaker 5: or a shiny new birdhouse. 1125 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:55,560 Speaker 1: Right. 1126 00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,000 Speaker 4: Well, I take the great joy of being able to 1127 00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,480 Speaker 4: have this opportunity to speak to you on my podcast. 1128 00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:05,400 Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for me. 1129 00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:07,239 Speaker 3: I'm really so glad that you'd have me. 1130 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:12,719 Speaker 4: Really, this is so special. I'm so grateful and thank 1131 00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,839 Speaker 4: you for this. But thank you for your music as well. 1132 00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,879 Speaker 5: Well, no problem, I'm just now starting to settle down, 1133 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,839 Speaker 5: so I promise I'll talk less about me and more 1134 00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:22,440 Speaker 5: about y'all. 1135 00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,839 Speaker 3: I know this. It's an unnatural thing, the interview where 1136 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,359 Speaker 3: we just talk about me. It feels funny, but I'm 1137 00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:28,719 Speaker 3: doing it. 1138 00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:30,719 Speaker 1: Well, you did a terrific job. 1139 00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:32,440 Speaker 3: Well, thank you, thank you, very thank you. 1140 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,560 Speaker 5: I had a coffee and what's a candy? 1141 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:36,839 Speaker 1: Thank you, am? 1142 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:38,319 Speaker 5: And if you ever need a break, you just say 1143 00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,560 Speaker 5: hold on, I gotta eat this candy. 1144 00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:46,799 Speaker 4: Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, 1145 00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,480 Speaker 4: or wherever you get your podcasts