WEBVTT - Episode 107: The Last Dance 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:11.840 Hello, and welcome to another edition of Nerdificent. I am 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.760 one half of your host Danny Fernandez, sitting across the 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:18.000 virtual space for me as always, if you want to 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:24.279 Wayne coming through here. We're still figuring out. I swear 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.960 to God. My team every week is like, Danny, how 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.920 can we make it sound like you're not calling us 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:35.320 from a pay phone. We did it this week, though 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.519 you'd be surprised. I'm recording on an iMac I have. 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:41.040 It's not like I I don't know what's with me 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.520 in technology. I have an Apple, I have a MacBook 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.880 Air and I Mac. I have the newest generation of 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:54.280 the uh iPhone. But apparently my insta was still like 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:56.840 everyone was like this girl has boost Mobile. It was 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.880 like not working well. I don't know. I swear to God. 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:02.480 If I could pay more money for better things, I would. 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.680 I have no idea. What I'm doing tech is not. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:07.600 I'm trusting the Apple to just do the things. But 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:12.320 apparently I don't know. Yeah now, yeah, I'm running off 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:17.039 of the I nine K. You know. I got that 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:21.920 t I graphics card, thirty two gigabytes of RAM like 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.520 your boy mess and with a monster. Uh don't come 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:29.199 from me. I don't know I have. Is there something 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.040 higher than five G? That's what I have? No, No, 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:36.479 you your your your phone is fine. It's just you you're, you're. 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:42.080 It's just like just latency. And I think just naturally Instagram, 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.880 the way that they kind of take the data in 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:47.520 the speeds, it's gonna be hard to do it. You 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.600 used to be back before, you know, before these times, 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:52.240 you used to be able to like rig it up 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.560 and start doing like lives and stuff from a desktop. 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.880 But they've created workarounds and stuff, which I'm like that 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.160 would have come in handy now, you know. Yeah, well 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.960 someone else, perfect segue, that's been doing a lot of lives, 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:11.440 a lot of streams. Our friend who's a guest on 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:17.760 the pod today, comedian writer host um Dog Lover that 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:21.840 is Mr Mark ellis what and honor is? This is 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:23.760 my third time on the show. I think, so I'm 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.600 like getting close to that Tom Hanks five time host 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.200 SNL Club. Oh yeah, oh yeah, you're you're, you're you're 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:32.799 up there. I mean, you're you're still trailing I think 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:37.480 behind Hector Navarro. Hector Navarro is he's putting in the 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:41.720 mileage the time, but you're definitely a close second. You're 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.240 I guess you'd be more who Who's Who's after Tom Hanks. 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:48.200 I think it might be like then I might be 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.760 like a Steve Martin or Alec Baldwin. I mean that's 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.840 not bad, it's it's it's good company to be in. 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.480 And this one, I was a little hesitant to come 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.040 back on the show because I'm like, Okay, well, I've 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.400 already exhausted my matching the gathering now which with you 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.120 all my comic book movies, my star Wars, and I'm like, 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.959 I don't know anything else about nerdy stuff that much. 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.959 And then, just like a bolt of lightning, like Travis 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:13.519 Walton and Fire in the Sky, Danny Fernandez hit me 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.440 up and she's like, well, how about the last dance? 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.200 And I was like, can your podcast be nine hours? 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:20.600 Because I have so much to talk about. Well, it 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:22.959 was so funny. We were talking to our super producer, 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.799 Joel Monique and uh I was telling her that you. 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.400 She was like, man, this guy can contains multitudes because 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:33.280 you are a what I call a sports nerd. You 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:37.520 can rattle off stats and baseball stats, football and basketball stats, 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.320 even golf, which I think you're the nerdiest person for 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.600 being into but you can rattle off so many stats. 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:45.960 When I am with you, you're always like, oh, this 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.560 reminds me of super Bowl fifty five or no, what 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:53.160 super Bowl yet? Now we're well into the fifties, Danny, 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.560 and okay, but you'll be like, this reminds me of 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:57.600 super Bowl thirty five when they were down by blah 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.200 blah blah, and then like you just rattle that stuff off, 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:01.760 and I was like, well, this is very nerdy. We 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:07.800 should go into sports nerds. Um, yeah, this is interesting 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.200 because I think that, well, at least for golf, golf 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.040 is where the intersection of sports nerds and old person meets. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:19.360 And I've gradually becoming that, But before I totally commit 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.320 to just playing week golf and drinking corpse light all day, 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.440 there is a little bit of athleticism still in me. 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.360 And I mean, I grew up playing sports, but I 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:28.160 also grew up being into nerds stuff. And I think 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.880 that when you're at both of those seemingly different worlds, 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:33.960 you actually realize that they are one and the same. 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:36.520 Because it's usually something that hooks you when you're a kid. 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.960 It's something that you manifest into reality. In a way 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.240 that either you believe Luke Skywalker's real or you think 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.520 that Michael Jordan actually cares about your opinion, you know, 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.919 or you think for me, it's like I really believe 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:55.400 that the Washington Men's professional football franchise actually thinks that 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.599 they that I can hear them and they can hear 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.880 me when I'm cheering for them, like I actually feel, 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.599 from three thousand miles away, I'm having an effect on 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.640 that team. And if you've been paying attention to the 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:07.760 last twenty five years, you know I could be doing better. 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.080 But it's just one of those things where we just 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.440 it's I think being a nerd is caring about something 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.040 and sometimes that's just knowing a lot, is being able 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.760 to quantify in numbers or some other way. But the 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.080 bottom line is it's something that you really invest a 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.919 lot of time and energy and love in and for me, 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:27.080 sports has always been there. Well, I you know, got 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:32.560 fascinated because it felt like everybody was tweeting in film, Twitter, 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:37.400 in um all aspects of Twitter, sports, Twitter, nerd Twitter. 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.520 Everyone was tweeting about this documentary The Last Dance, And 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:42.880 it was so cool because it felt like the Super 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.280 Bowl or like when a live event happens that everybody 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.040 starts tweeting about and it was all over my Twitter, 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.320 and for people that don't know it was a documentary, 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.560 it's still coming out every weekend, uh too mini series 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:59.600 by ESPN that covers the final season of the iconic 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:05.359 Chicago Bowls what was essentially their last dance that Phil 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:10.839 Jackson turn coined or named and I just thought like 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.800 it had a bunch of never before seeing footage and interviews, 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.160 and I was like, this is just so even the stats, 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.279 like the stats that will get into on Scottie Pippen. 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.080 But even if you aren't a sports person, I still 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:23.400 heavily recommend checking this out. It's the same thing I 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.640 feel about with rock and roll documentaries that I'm not 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:28.560 super into that, but I find all the behind the 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:33.040 scenes drama incredibly fascinating because I'm also very petty, and 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:37.040 so heavily recommend watching this again, even if you're not 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.039 a sports person, should just learn about the lore and 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:45.240 the legacy behind this team. Yeah, go ahead of you. 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:47.760 And I think that's what makes it so fun to 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.679 talk about on this episode, because yeah, I just only 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.400 i'd say, recently started caring about sports been a nerd 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.920 most of my life, and my sports knowledge has been 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:00.320 like is my l a team winning then, and I'm 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:02.360 that I'm in, you know, i'd show up and now 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.200 I just kind of wanted to have like a more 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.000 in depth look. And when you start to look beyond 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:11.040 just like who's winning and losing, especially in basketball, you'd 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.480 noticed the kind of like chess match that front office 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.600 can be in sports. And if for for for people 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.680 who are like, what what what did you say? So 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:22.920 the UH and and Mark, you can correct me if 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:24.880 I'm wrong, if I'm wrong, because I might be getting 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.360 some of these terms wrong. But front office is pretty 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:31.640 much like the organization of these UH sports teams and 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:35.600 the wheeling and dealing and how they how they kind 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.360 of help the team both build and you know, make 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.720 trades and deals. And that was actually a big portion 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.840 of the first part of this doc was that debate 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.960 of who wins championships? Is it the players themselves? Is 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.640 it the organization? If you went on Twitter, it seems 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:56.800 like everyone agreed it's both parts equally. But the big 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:00.000 kind of tug of war was kind of Michael Jorge 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.320 being in his bag and being like, no, y'all not 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.120 gonna run this team after I just did all this 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:08.040 work for you. And it's so interesting because people have 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.760 been comparing that to Lebron right now with the Lakers, 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.640 which was very important to me because at this time 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:17.920 everyone was a Michael Jordan fan. I don't care what 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.640 anyone says, at this time in your life, you were 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.160 a Michael Jordan fan. And all these people being like 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.240 people not knowing about Scottie Pippen, I'm like, shut up. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.520 I had a Scottie Pippen poster in my room of 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:30.920 him Duncan. Yes, it was because I couldn't get a 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.920 Michael Jordan's one, but I still had the Scottie Pippen poster, 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:36.760 and Piven was just as important, just as intact role 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.880 to me. So that's what was interesting about this doc 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.000 and what really, uh, I think warranted this episode one 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:45.040 just so it could be a breather. We don't have 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.600 to talk about just superheroes all the time, and this 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.360 is kind of like the biggest pop culture thing happening 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.400 right now besides Final Fantasy seven when you make an 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.920 animal crossing, but we can do that later. Thank god, 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:57.920 I don't have to talk about Final Fantasy. I remember 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.800 I remember my buddy getting Final Fantasy for Super Nintendo 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:03.800 when I was a kid, and and and it was 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:05.680 like three days later and I called him and I 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:07.280 was like, hey, How's Final Fantasy is a good And 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:09.880 He's like, I haven't finished reading the instruction book like yet, 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:11.360 so I haven't started the game. I'm wait, what are 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.120 you talking about. I'm just probably went outside and playing 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.000 basketball instead. Stop talking to that guy. But like when 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:18.920 when when you talk about the Last Dance and what 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.760 kind of a phenomenon has been, it's partially due to 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:23.360 the fact that we're all kind of, you know, staying 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.520 inside and staying distant, and we need outlets, we need 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.000 new things to talk about online, and it certainly feels 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.280 that void. But I think that the effect that the 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:34.719 Last Dance is having on so many different demographics, if 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:37.760 you will, is the same effect that the nineties Chicago 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.439 Bulls had, Because with the Last Dance, you have people who, 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.520 like Danny said, our film nerds are people who are 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.600 looking at from the documentary the making of Standpoint. You 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:47.800 have sports nerds like me, you have stats nerds. You 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:49.520 have people who just want to get into this thing 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:51.800 for the first time or walk down memory lane. Like 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.440 I was talking with super producer Joel about it before 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:55.840 we went to live, and I was thinking about her 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.679 old man watching this because she's from Chicago. Her dad 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:00.920 was such a Bulls fan, and so he's watching this 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:02.560 and it's just like a kid in a candy store, 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:06.120 I imagine. And for me, it's like the nineties Chicago 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:07.880 Bulls were like that too, because you did not have 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.120 to be a big sports fan to know who the 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.080 Bulls were, to especially know who Michael Jordan's and for 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.000 the most part, who Scottie Pippen was and if he to. 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.360 To bring it back to the front office, when we 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.760 talk about a front office in terms of sports, you're 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:24.360 generally referring to two people, the general manager and the 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:26.520 owner of the team. The owner of the team obviously 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.679 is the person who owns and has the final say 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.520 on everything, but usually they see a lot of the 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:36.920 team responsibilities and the team finals. Say to the general manager, 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.320 who is the person responsible for putting together a collection 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.520 of talent on the field or in this case, on 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.000 the court that's gonna win you a championship. And you 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.719 can look at teams throughout history, I would say that 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.080 you take a team like my favorite basketball team is 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.120 the San Antonio Spurs, And you can look at that 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.400 and you can say, okay, well, Tim Duncan is an 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.600 all time player, Tony Parker and Montage Nobody were really good. 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:02.840 But how much did the front office take a responsibility 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.080 and have a hand and then winning five championships? I 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.319 think a great deal. And when you come to the 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.320 Chicago Bulls, I think that Jerry Krauss, who was the 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.200 GM of the Chicago Bulls during their run, wanted more 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.079 credit than he was getting. But I tend to agree 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.160 with Michael Jordan's where this is not a normal team 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.520 that you put together. Sure they had to add pieces 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.280 like Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant b j Armstrong, but 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.560 you had Michael Jeffrey Jordan's on the court, you always 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:31.240 had a chance to win a championship. And that's never 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:32.960 been lost on fans. And I think that that's why 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.160 a lot of this narrative that is in the first 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.719 two episodes of The Last Dance, which is what we've 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.520 seen so far, is anti Jerry Krauss, just because he 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.319 just could not get out of his own egos way 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.880 well something, oh something, I was gonna say to Mark, 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:52.640 is uh, we were talking about this that essentially, to me, 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:56.240 it's so fascinating to have a GM that wants so 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.880 much credit to meet. I was saying that it reminds 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:02.520 me of a producer for a film. Now. Normally, when 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.040 if we look at something like Endgame, you know the 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:09.080 big time actors that got people to the movie, and 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.160 you know the directors, the Russo brothers, but you don't 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:16.280 really pay attention to the producers. Now, they make millions 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:19.920 of dollars, but they know what they're getting into when 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.840 they choose to be behind the scenes. You are not 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.080 the all Star. You're not the Phil Jackson, the Michael Jordan's, 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.240 the Scottie Pippen. So no, people aren't like rushing up 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.240 to you, and you're not getting all of the credit, 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:33.120 but you kind of know that. And on the back end, 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.960 you're still making millions of dollars and that's what you 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.600 get into it for. That's and and and look, everybody 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:40.800 grows up. If you're a sports fanily you grow up 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.200 and you have dreams of playing the sport that you 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.559 love professionally. I have not given up on those dreams 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:50.160 just yet, but I think that gms and owners, they 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.360 probably grew up loving this stuff. When you realize that 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.000 you just were not blessed with a body that's going 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.520 to be able to handle the rigors of playing a 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.480 professional sport, you tend to look for the ways that 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.160 you can get involved in it. And for a good 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.840 Nerd comparison, the front office of a basketball team is 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.920 a lot like what the role Kevin Figi serves in 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.160 the Marvel Cinematic universe, or who Kathleen Kennedy is now 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.640 in the world of Star Wars taking over for George Lucas, 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.920 where they have the final say. But you're not necessarily 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.400 paying the money for a ticket to go see Kevin fight. 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.400 You're Kathleen Kennedy. You're going to see the product that 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.160 they put before you, which has been great in both 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.079 those cases and was certainly possibly the best ever with 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.120 the nineties Bulls. I know, it does feel like it's 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.280 one of those things to use the same analogy that 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.200 it's like if you're in the know, you're in the know, 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:43.240 and then if you're phenomenal, then people will know you know, 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:47.320 Like it's it's not common knowledge for someone to be 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.640 thrown around a name Lake Figy as much as people 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.000 do with the m c U. But it's because at 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.920 at certain point you know it's one thing too. And 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.720 I think to use that same analogy bringing butts in 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:01.760 the sea eats. But when you can sit back and 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:05.640 look at the way I fight, you was able to 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.920 build this like multi movie arc and you're like, Okay, 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.480 that's that's when. That's beyond the writer, that's beyond the director. 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.840 That's the person behind the scenes being able to communicate 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.680 with all these moving moving parts and make it happen. 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.240 And it's one of those things where I think it 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.000 just comes to have the ego argument where it's like, 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.800 if you just keep doing good work, people will notice 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.560 you don't have to argue what your star player. You 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.200 don't have to get in their face and and try 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:38.040 and like you know, almost destroy your own team just 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.600 because you need notoriety that bad And oftentimes the ones 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:43.400 who are looking for it the most are the ones 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:47.000 who Loki don't deserve it. I think that Jordan's is 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:49.520 such a rare case too, because he had the talent 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:51.840 on court, but then also off the court. He was 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.640 such a transcendent figure that he could lead and he's 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.320 the owner of the Charlotte franchise now, and so you 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.880 know that he had those aspirations, but he I would 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:04.040 impair him to Darth Vader because Darth Vader was such 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.000 a badass in the galaxy far far away. He could 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.320 pull out a lightsaber and defeat anyone in his prime. 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.640 But he was also part of the front office of 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.280 the Empire. He was making decisions, he was calling some shots, 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:19.240 and so that's what a leader on your team is. 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:20.840 And there's different ways to do it. I mean, you 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.480 can be Michael Jordan's kind of oversee everything and and 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:25.600 tell the front office, hey, I'm not playing for a 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.400 coach other than Phil Jackson. Or you can do more 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.920 of the Tim Duncan model, which is speaks softly to 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.000 carry a big stick. Both great leaders of men on 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.960 the court, but Jordans really transcended what he was doing 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.840 on the court to off it. And I think that 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.840 when you have a player of his caliber that comes 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.400 up and starts ruffling feathers are looking into GM in 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.400 the eye, so to speak. I think that some gms 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:51.800 would get very squirreling, and that's certainly what happened with 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.320 Jerry Krauss. But look I'll also defend Jerry Krauss on 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.480 a couple of different fronts here, because Jerry Krauss did 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.320 have a huge hand and putting this championship team team together, 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.720 and he also made some decisions that may not have 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.040 been popular at the time or even now, but I 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.760 think we're necessary. Case in point is when Michael Jordan 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:11.160 broke his foot early in the second season. He was 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.240 held out, even though he felt ready to come back 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.320 and play. He was held out because there was the 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.800 small risk that if he breaks this thing again, he's 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.280 his career is over. And that's what you see in 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:26.200 sports now is how cautious teams are with allowing players 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.600 to come back from injury. The team has the final 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.080 say so. In baseball, if you're a pitcher and you 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.240 just have Tommy John surge and you're coming back, it 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.240 doesn't matter if you're throwing a no hitter into the 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.160 seventh inning. If you have hit your pitch count, you're 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.320 going out of the game. You see the same thing, 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:43.480 and the risk reward was evident as early as a 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.160 couple of seasons ago when Kevin Durant got hurt, came 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.360 back to early and then got hurt again. In the 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.280 playoffs and then had to sit out this entire season. 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.280 So I think that they were a little ahead of 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.560 the curve and telling the athlete, we know you want 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.280 to play, but you have to sit down and you 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.680 have to let us tell you when and the doctors 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:04.520 tell you when it's safe for you to come back 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.400 and play. Mark, I was going to say, before we 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:11.840 dive in further, can you explain to people as best 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:16.920 you can of as far as how this team came together. Yeah, 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:18.400 And I was just gonna say, you can really tell 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.520 how much I love this stuff because I haven't like 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.040 tried to crack a joker, be funny at all. It's 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.879 so serious and anybody who knows me knows that I 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:27.960 can crack jokes about sports, but like, I get into 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.560 this stuff. So if you came here for comedy, I'm sorry. 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:34.280 I'm failing everyone, but sorry, Danny. Continue now give everyone 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:37.880 a shorthand essentially of how we got to uh when 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:40.560 with Jordan's joining in eight four, kind of what that 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.840 looked like, and then when they finally got the team 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.399 to be the iconic nineties Bowls. The NBA was not 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:52.640 always the huge international cash count. Social media lightning rod 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:56.760 that it is now. It's popularity really took a big 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.440 shot in the arm when Larry Burden, Magic Johnson entered 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.399 the league going into the decade of the eighties, and 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.879 so now you had stars to root for. And what 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.000 that really proved and shot at light on is that 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.560 there's teams with young players that are hungry to win championships, 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.080 and then there's also teams with players who are letting 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.760 the little amount of fame that they have derailed them 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:20.000 and get them into bad situations. There the drugs and 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.040 alcohol that were being abused by players in the NBA 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.520 in the late seventies early eighties was so it would 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.840 like it's it's hard to quantify how much of an 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.159 effect that actually had on the game play, on the 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.920 flow back in that day. And then Larry Burton Mackew 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:37.959 Johnson come along, and these are clean guys who just 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.040 want to form a team and win championships, and so 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.200 that's what they were doing for most of the eighties. Meanwhile, 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.120 Michael Jordan's who's had a chip on his shoulder since 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.200 tenth grade when he got cut from the varsity high 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.520 school basketball team. He gets to u n C. He 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:52.919 hits a game winning shot to win the national Championship 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.159 as a freshman, and then he becomes one of the 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.880 best college players in the country. Once he goes into 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.000 the NBA draft in the mid eighties, it's a little 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:02.680 bit of a different league, but there's still a lot 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:06.280 of leftover from the drug and alcohol abuse that I've mentioned, 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:08.440 and a lot of that was happening with the Chicago 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.360 Bulls team that he got drafted too. And so, as 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.399 he mentioned in the documentary, he was never really a 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.000 part of that scene. He just wanted to play basketball, 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:20.640 sleep and wake up and play more basketball. And so 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:24.199 kind of cleansing that palette in Chicago and in the 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:28.400 NBA is something that Magic, Larry and then Michael coming 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:30.960 along really had a saying, because if you wanted to 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:32.960 compete with these guys and you wanted to break the 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.960 Celtics Lakers run of winning championships, you had to step 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.120 up and run a clean program. And then the Bad 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.600 Boys Pistons came along, the Detroit Pistons in the late 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:45.040 eighties finally unseeded both the Celtics in the Eastern Conference 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.160 and then the Lakers in the Western Conference to win 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:51.280 two championships, and they were the bullies on the block 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.280 that the Bulls could just never get passed. It was 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.240 Isaiah Thomas and Dennis Rodman who used to play for 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.800 the Pistons, Joe Dumars, Bill Lamb Bireau, such great cast 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.680 of great players and thugs. It was a good mix 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:06.800 of two. Bill Lamb Beer was the biggest thug you'd 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:08.960 ever want to come across, and the Bulls just could 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.320 not get past them. And the NBA is littered with 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:15.840