WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 114 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:03.080 All media. 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:05.840 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.480 you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.559 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.400 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.920 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:20.840 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:22.639 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:24.800 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.680 Hello everyone, it's me today, James, and I'm joined by 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.839 Betevan from the ypyj Information Authors, and we're going to 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:41.519 discuss today and chiefly that the Turkish bombing campaign against 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:43.440 it which has been happening in the last few weeks 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:45.800 and the last few months and the last few years. 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.840 So we wanted to set that in context for you. 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.040 And everyone's attention has been very much focused on other conflicts, 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.279 but that doesn't mean this one isn't important, and it's 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:57.400 one that obviously listeners will be familiar with, so we 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.680 wanted to bring you an update on that. Welcome, very 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:05.440 vun Hello, thank you. 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:04.640 You're welcome. 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:06.479 Okay, happy to be here today. 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:07.240 Good. 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.520 Let's start by I think just in case people need 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:13.880 a refresher or they haven't listened to some of the 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:14.600 other stuff. 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.600 Talk about what's happening in Brosova. 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:22.600 And why they I guess why it's important and why 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.280 it's unique and what makes it special. 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:31.000 Okay, So actually right now in for more than ten years, 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:35.520 there's a revolution happening. I think most people heard that. 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.440 For some twenty eleven and so on, there was like 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.800 something called the Arab Strings. But actually in the same 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:45.400 time in this region in northern East Syria actually also 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:49.360 called like in the northern eastern part of Syria, there's 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:54.120 a region called which is like a big part of 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.600 Kotish population. There's also Christian population like Assyria and Arminium 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:04.200 population and also our population. Like it's a very colorful region, 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:08.720 you can say. So in this region twenty eleven, in 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:14.359 this time and then twenty twelve, a revolusion started, which 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.359 is actually based on a long term struggle of the 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:23.120 Kurdish movement and its experiences. And the revolution was like 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:28.799 mostly based on the idea to gain democratic autonomy and 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:34.920 today gain like democratic self administration. Why because like the 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.959 Syrian regime on the one hand was very oppressive towards 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.760 the Kurdish people, and on the other hand, like it 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:47.280 was like outwed Carrian regime, so there was like this 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:52.720 wish to create something different, which was actually created here 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:58.640 in the region in Rova. Yeah, so I think this 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.359 we can say at first, like what happened was that 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.639 the revolution started and until today it's continuing. Like it's 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:10.040 a very like basic change of people's life. We can 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:14.040 say that happened here, like yeah, democratic administration in all 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.560 areas of life, and also like for example, a great 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:21.840 deal of a women's organization to achieve also women's freedom. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:26.240 So the solutions like based on these principles of democratic 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:31.679 self administration, of women's freedom and also of ecologies. 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.400 Yeah, perhaps you can explain people who aren't familiar a 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:37.600 little bit more about the women's revolution, because I think 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:42.960 that is something that's extremely unique and that people might 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.120 not have like if they've heard of it, perhaps they 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.960 haven't really you know, I think the mainstream press hasn't 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.600 covered particularly well. So if you could explain like maybe 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:54.120 something about the co chair system or the relationship between 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.320 yourselves and the yepigae and how that works. 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.720 Yeah. So actually I was just like speaking about the 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.360 like when the revolution was happening, so from the beginning 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.640 online women also took place in it, like which was 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.320 already the CAS in the Kurdish freedom movement in general, 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:14.839 like that woman was like equally were equally taking part 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:20.080 in it, and also always founded their own organizations, like 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.520 not like a substitute to a general organization or something 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:27.040 like this, but actually like their own organization that at 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:31.760 the same time cooperate with the general organization. So there 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:35.200 was already this principle of women's autonomy. So this was 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:41.159 also adopted in reservoirs. So in all areas, which also 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:46.960 includes like political areas, areas of daily life, but also 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:52.320 military fields, women organized. So actually in the beginning of 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:56.640 the solution, they were like the society's kind of self 0:04:56.720 --> 0:05:00.960 defense forces building us and in the beginning there were 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:04.440 already women in it. And then there was also the 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:09.640 foundation of a white p GAY like the People's Defense Forces. 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:14.400 But after this also the White PG Women's Protection Units 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:22.680 were founded, so actually it's like a fully autonomous women's 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:27.320 units that take care of defending their homeland on the 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.120 one hand, but on the other hand also made like 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.080 a great deal of change in the society in the 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:36.120 daily life of women, because in a region that was 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:42.679 before like maybe to somebody like feudal or like because 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.560 of the Authoria Tennessy in the state, like there was 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:51.240 no protection for women's rights or something like this. And 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.360 for example, there was like the traditions of marrying a 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.880 woman at a young age or something like this. This 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:01.240 was actually changed by those women's solution, Like the everyday 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:05.599 life of women was changed and is still changing. Like 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:09.760 it's still a struggle because it means changing the society 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.599 in general. Yeah, so there's like in every area of 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:19.279 life today there's like autonomous women's organization and the vices, 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:24.640 which makes was maybe the most like profound a woman's 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:28.320 solutions that on to now is happening, I think. So 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.760 it's like really important like samplers for a woman everywhere 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:33.120 in the work. 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.240 Yeah, very much, And it is a genuinely profound change. 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.680 Having spent a little bit of time there earlier this year, 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.200 it's very notable that you spent a lot of time 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.080 in that part of the world, how different things are. 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:49.679 And then perhaps we should talk about the battle against 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.159 the so called Islamic state or dasher Isis or whatever 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:58.080 you want to call it. In the role that THEPGG 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:02.880 and SDF play in that I can explain a little 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.560 about that fight and the fighting that happened, and also 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:10.320 like the tremendous number of people who died fighting or 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.960 were marked in the language is used by the revolution 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:15.240 about them. 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:21.080 So like uh, in general, I think everyone and the 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.760 world first listened to the name most of white woman's 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:29.400 protection units and the relationship to ISIS. But actually from 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.720 the beginning on they fought like against this kind of 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:37.720 let's say, like different like fundamentalists or mercenary groups that 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:44.640 were existing in the region. And when ISIS was coming up, 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:51.200 like the biggest almost non battle that actually the world 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:53.880 for the first time really saw was the battle for 0:07:54.000 --> 0:08:00.120 Pubani where for example, the hite PJ it was like 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:05.360 very very limited possibilities and the YPGA fought against the 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:12.280 ISIS and actually succeeded like to defeat iss and to 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:14.960 defend the city of Kobani, which was kind of like 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.680 a breaking point where things started to turn around. Or 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:22.280 we have also had the point where for example, Shenga 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:24.880 was attacked, which is like in South kot de Son 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.240 It's not like in the era region, it's not even 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.720 in the same region. But the YPJA also played like 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:36.719 the role and opening a corridor for the people who 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.080 tried to flee for the yd people who like are 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:44.679 people who have faced like many genocides in history, and 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.959 in order to save them from the genocide of ISIS, 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.880 the YPJA opened a corridor to help them to flee. 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:58.079 So and there are like many stories or like in 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:03.120 the end the operation of the city of Racca, which 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.320 was kind of known like as the center of the ISIS, 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:10.600 which also we can say like the women's force paid 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:16.200 like a junior rank god. So there are many examples 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:21.240 where we can say, like how deciding for examples, as 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.959 the struggle of the Viba was for the defeat of ISIS. 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.920 And I think on the other hand, we also have 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.319 to say that it is not completely defeated, because it 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:36.800 seemed like some support from outside structures, like from Turkey, 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:42.720 so there are still some like sales or sample. There 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.480 are a lot of details detainees like before that was 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:51.120 happening try to break out from the detention centers in 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:55.840 twenty twenty two, So it's not like it's completely vanished 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:59.360 from the earth, but the actual defeat was like reached 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:01.640 by the might go. 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:06.839 For Yeah, I think it's very important talk. 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.240 Like you spoke about those like incarcerated ice form of 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.679 ISIS fighters, right and their attempt to break out. I 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.000 think that's maybe a good chance for us to talk 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:19.800 about like some other form of ISIS fighters uh and 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:24.679 like starting in I think it was called Turkey, called 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.800 Operation Peace Spring, I think right, like the these these 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:34.040 Turkish incursions into Uh, into into Rosa, into like and 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:39.600 and into like Syrian territory. Can you explain a little 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.600 bit about like how I guess that this will get 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:44.800 us to the modern day and and the bombing, but like, 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:49.760 perhaps you can explain how this started. Obviously Turkey has 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.480 been opposed to the Kurdish freedom movement since its inception, 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.120 right since the very beginning and in the last century, 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:00.480 but preaps you could explain like this series of ongoing 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.520 Turkish aggressions against what's happening in Java now, and like 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:08.880 how that began and how that's manifested itself over the years. 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:15.720 Oh yes, like after ISIS was defeated to some degree, 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:21.800 actually Turky for itself started occupation attacks, like in twenty 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:28.200 eighteen nineteen and started the occupation was first against Afrine 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.360 and then against til Khania and Guido speir which are 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:35.319 all like very important regions of Bolsheva that are like 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:40.880 directly next to the Turkish border, like you see, like 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:45.280 directly in between Syria and the Turkey, like next to 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:51.760 the Turkish borders too. They directly attacked these cities next 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:55.400 to the border, which actually most of our cities are 0:11:55.440 --> 0:12:01.760 directly next to the border, and they occupy them. Yeah, 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:03.880 I think that's important to understand like a little bit 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:11.000 because actually there took plans to occupy, occupy like the 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.920 region along the Wad are not only the cities that 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.880 they occupied until now. This a very very violent war 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.839 with using aircraft and so on. Like also in the 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:27.360 last years UH took he very much invested into drone 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:32.440 technology and so on, and they used also chemical weapons 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:38.000 like very famous in two nineteen the video of a 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.400 young child the name Mohammad went around the world that 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:48.599 like was like bond by phosphorus UH in Seracania in 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:52.400 the occupation attack. So like actually it's a like a 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:56.600 war that is smallest sleep but also with the most 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:00.640 like dirty yeah methods that took his waging in the region. 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.600 And after this, like we can't say, like after Selcni 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:11.800 was occupied Chokie actually continued to attack with a war 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.040 that you cannot say like at this time. It starts 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:19.319 and in this time and it's more like continuous attacks. 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.440 So on the one hand, like some areas are always 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.959 getting bombed in the last years, like for examples like 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.800 with artillery shelling and one like a sharebar next to 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:35.240 Athleene or Ironesa or the tam So like the areas 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:39.600 that are close to the occupied areas were now Turkey 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:44.640 and mercenary forces are stations that constantly attacked more or 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:49.199 less regions, but also with a drone war like the 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:54.240 first I think, very like clear example of what was 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.480 the strategy like in the last years was on the 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:04.520 twenty third June two down twenty when Turkey killed three 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:10.160 women of Conguersta, the women's movement like the civil women's 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:15.839 movement in Kobani in the village, which were all like 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:17.920 two of them were like in the leadership of the 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.680 civil women's movement and one was just like a member 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.120 and they were sitting in the garden and they were 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:30.720 talking and at this time like a turk strownest strike 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:35.240 and they all lost their lives. So like a lot 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:39.000 of these kinds of attacks happened after this, like against 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:45.880 like let's say like civil leaders of society, like politicians, 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:51.200 normal people. Also like on the twenty fifth of December. 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:58.720 Actually also on Christmas in two twenty one five five 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:03.280 child like young people like youth from the Youth movement 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.760 were killed in Kobani. Also like just when they were 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.240 sitting in the garden, like members of the Youth Center, 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.080 like I took a stone stock three of them, like 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:20.800 a young girl and this continued. Or also we can 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:26.680 say like leaders of Fox suble YPJ. Also like on 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:31.440 the twenty second of July last year, there was a 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:37.200 conference happening for celebrating ten years of Women's Resolution in Rojaha, 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:42.320 and just on the same day, Turky targeted the car 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:48.000 of Right PJ members. One of them was Jian Toldan, 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.600 who also spoke on the same day on the conference. 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:56.520 Both actually it's quite clear what took. Actually once they 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:02.080 want to like destroy the revolution that's happening in USA, 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.640 like the Woman's Revolution mm hm, and in general, like 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.480 this change that is happening. They want to create like 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:15.400 the sphere who stay away to way to Theish occupation forces, 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:18.960 and they're using a lot of violence, like also in 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.040 the occupied areas, like the people who are, right, I 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.760 think that they cannot speak their language, they have to fear. 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:31.520 Sometimes they cannot close the house doors. Sometimes people get 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:36.440 like abducted, like without anyone knowing why or where they go. 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:38.560 Will they go to the prison? Will that be in 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.840 a prison or will that be forshot or like a 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:48.440 very kind of oppressive regime now in the occupied areas. 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:52.520 Yeah, and those are people who, like I've met when 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:54.840 when they come here, right, people who have lost Like 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.200 I spoke to a guy a Mayre a couple of 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:00.880 weeks ago. You know, his father had been killed, his 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:04.000 uncle had been killed, and like he was like what 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:05.800 should he should? I should I wait to be like 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.520 the last person in my family and then who gets 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.560 killed or like it's it's very the conditions for those 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:17.280 people in the Turkish occupied parts of northern Kurdistan are very, 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:21.480 very difficult and oppressive. And I think, like, just to 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.080 build off what you said, like it's important that people 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.960 realize that these killing of especially like people in the 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:33.240 Women's revolution, but also you know people in in the 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:40.040 Rajava revolution. More generally, it's not drone strikes are extremely targeted, right, 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.560 Like they can follow a car from an event and 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.359 strike it. Like it's these kind of these things are 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.800 not It's not like they're it's not like artillery or mortars. 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:53.840 It's not like you're sending it into an area. Like 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.000 they're extremely targeted to an individual or a group of 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:01.240 individuals rather than you know, random attack. So like this 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:15.520 is a distinct choice that's being made. Well, let's talk 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:17.840 about the most recent bombings, because I think there was 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:23.680 some particularly egregious ones, even by the standard of this campaign, 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:28.040 which has been pretty egregis from the beginning. But December, 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.280 around the week of Christmas this year, just to give 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.760 people a time sort of period, there was a bombings 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.680 of a if I'm not wrong, a printing press, a 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.320 dialysis facility, is that right? 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.520 Yeah? Yeah, well actually there was there was also another 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.159 like not hospital, like a becaspital, let's say, like a 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.360 medical point. Also in Corvani were doctors who was out borders. 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.400 I think it's like kind of a known and Jose 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:58.399 were also working there at the oxygen center also, so 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:04.840 like medical places, there were like normal factories of food production, 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.120 like you said the printing house. There were many places 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:15.119 like this, like of daily infrastructure that were targeted like before. 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.879 Already in October infrastructure was targeted. And also last year 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.200 there was attack like this and every time at least 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.440 ten civilians got killed, like in all of these attacks. 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:27.399 So now I think that over a number just of 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.120 these three ways of attacks is already like searching one 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:35.680 killed civilians. So like maybe dawns were very targeted, but 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:39.600 it's not like Turki doesn't want to kill a civilians 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.200 or tax care not to kill civilians. Like already in 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:46.600 the attacks of the last year, there was an examples 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:50.080 of double tap attacks for example, which I actually be illegal. 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.320 So I think it's very important to say, like also 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:58.119 the targeting of medical points of medical infrastructure, that what 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:02.639 Turkey is doing is not according to international law, Like 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:06.960 that's not the case, and like TOOKI is kind of 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:12.840 acting like however, advanced targeting civilians creating like fear, and 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:18.040 also like in a region that is already poor, Johnny, 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:22.080 you have to say, like the possibilities that have been created, 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:27.359 like like for daily needs and so on, for supplies 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:33.359 of electricity of like heating fuels and so on for 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.600 your house, they are very affected like this right now, 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:40.800 So like in general, there's like a big shortcoming of 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:44.640 everything right now and whatever, and just because of took 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.760 his attacks, so this is actually affecting everyone. And on 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:51.879 the other hand, took it to create like this feel 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:56.360 like there's just some wave of attack and just targeting everywhere, 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:02.160 so they want to displace actually the relations and also 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:06.480 to comment like the politics also took state, especially against 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.520 Scurtish people and also against the Christians was very much 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:13.679 like potentially like genocidal politics. 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:13.359 Like. 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.440 It's not not like a limited attack or something like this, 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:22.400 like we don't think so, yeah. 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:24.359 No, it's not a and like you said, they're very 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.240 very much unafraid of killing civilians in the process. Like 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:30.520 I spoke to a mother whose fifteen year old son 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.280 was killed in a drone strike. I don't think it's 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:36.080 very hard to make an argument that fifteen year old 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.320 son was doing anything apart from being a fifteen year 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:40.920 old kid. You know, it's not like this person is 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.960 a legitimate military target of a kid who played goalkeeper 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:47.520 on his local football team. And these double type attacks, 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.240 like if people aren't familiar with the double tap attack, 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:53.120 it's when an attack happened, people go to the site 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.080 of the attack to render aid. Right and ambulance or 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.920 practice bystanders rendering aid or either military personnel rendering aid, 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:04.280 and then a second attack happened at the same place 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.120 to to then attack the people who are rendering aid. 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:11.120 So you spoke a little bit about like how they're 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:14.640 trying to attack the whole project and not just individuals. 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:19.320 I wonder like the the drowne strikes do have like 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:22.920 a they change the way things have to be done right, 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:27.720 Like like it's it's things become unsafe, like any way 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:30.680 you can see the sky right, like having a large gathering, 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:36.639 or certainly for people who are of more like higher status, 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:42.840 it's it's dangerous for them to be out and about. Right. 0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:44.120 Is that fair to say? 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:45.680 Yeah? 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:48.359 I mean on some levels, for sure the dangerous. But 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:51.560 on the other hand, you cannot always be afraid. Like 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:56.360 that's like really yes, the reality like for example now, 0:22:56.640 --> 0:23:00.200 because it's places where targets, for exunder the infrastructure that 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:04.119 you need for your life. People actually started to stand 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:07.960 like next to the electricity center to say like if 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:12.040 we're all here, then they cannot target it. Wow, for 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:13.800 sure its dangerous if you see. 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:19.399 Like the they can they Yeah, because they've killed a 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:21.680 lot of civilians. As you say, that's a very brace 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:26.000 thing to do. Yes, yeah, again, I think I think 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:28.600 maybe we should explain, actually, so it gets very cold 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:30.680 in this part of the world in the winter, because 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:33.680 perhaps people will associate this part of the world with 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:38.080 like the heat and heart chambers. But like you, you 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:40.440 have very cold winters, especially in the mountains. 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:45.720 Right, yeah, I mean it's like all more or less flat, 0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:49.720 like it's not so cold, but still it gets like 0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:54.600 under zero degrees. So like for sure you need they 0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:57.440 need like your house to be warm, and so like 0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:00.159 just to take care of basic meats. You need your 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:04.080 car to drive somewhere maybe sometimes at least like some 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:08.000 people needed for their work or like this, there's a 0:24:08.080 --> 0:24:11.760 lot of basic needs that don't work if all the 0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:13.560 infrastructure gets destroyed. 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:14.240 Yeah. 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:18.320 Yeah, And I believe if I'm right in saying it's 0:24:18.400 --> 0:24:21.120 the one person already passed away because they couldn't get 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:25.000 dialysis the dialysis center that was bombed, Is that right. 0:24:26.160 --> 0:24:29.440 Yes, So as they said that one passed away, afterwards, 0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:34.720 they brought like a like emergency wise a dialos machine, 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:37.879 which I think is very good for the sick people. 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:40.399 But I'm not sure because also if you don't have 0:24:40.560 --> 0:24:43.520 like a substitute of something happens like only one machine. 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:46.160 I'm not sure like how much it will actually take 0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:49.320 care of the needs of the people, because I said 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:52.920 it was like seventy or eighty sick people who were 0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:55.240 going to the center, So it's not new. 0:24:56.359 --> 0:24:59.520 Yeah, and like I didn't think, Yeah, I mean, it's 0:24:59.520 --> 0:25:01.639 certainly not as good as having a proper center, right, Like, 0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:04.360 and there's no reason that's there's no world in which 0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:09.920 a dialysis center is a legitimate target or a printing press, right, Like. 0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:12.080 I think that that maybe points out what you were saying, 0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:16.320 like if you're printing books about something, sharing knowledge about something, 0:25:17.160 --> 0:25:20.120 and like perhaps one thing I think you were saying, 0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:22.439 is it right that it printed textbooks. 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:26.879 I think it was like also printing textbook, Okay, like 0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:30.200 it was printing everything, so it's also printing textbooks. Yes, 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:32.720 like also was printing textbook. 0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:35.240 Yeah, and we should point out that, like, you know, 0:25:35.480 --> 0:25:38.160 I speak to Kurdish people almost every day when I'm 0:25:38.200 --> 0:25:42.240 at the border, and they many of them don't read 0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:45.480 and write in Kurdish because in Turkey that's not taught 0:25:45.480 --> 0:25:47.240 in schools, right, they don't have a chance to learn 0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:52.240 and and so like having those textbooks, having that knowledge, 0:25:52.440 --> 0:25:55.720 Like lots of my lots of my friends were saying that, 0:25:55.840 --> 0:26:00.240 like the children, because because folks who went to school 0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:04.440 before the revolution went to school in Arabic. So like 0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:06.600 the children are the ones who have like the formal 0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:08.800 education in Kurdish, you know, and then they're building a 0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:12.720 generation that like speaks Kurdish and reads and writes Kurdish 0:26:12.840 --> 0:26:15.720 is their first language. And so like an attempt to 0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:18.520 destroy that isn't just destroying the factory, right it is 0:26:18.520 --> 0:26:21.320 that fair to say that it's also destroying like that 0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:24.720 goal of the revolution, and more broadly, like that attempt 0:26:24.840 --> 0:26:28.679 to like to have that education in Kurdish and let 0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:30.280 children speak their own language in school. 0:26:32.359 --> 0:26:35.280 Yes, I mean this is also part of like usmination politics, 0:26:35.400 --> 0:26:38.640 to deny people of their own language, which actually likes 0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:41.440 a Syrian regime also that like they only thought in Arabic. 0:26:42.600 --> 0:26:46.720 And now for example, the system of the self administuation 0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:50.880 lows everyone to learn and different languageses agno the Arabic, 0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:54.159 there's Kurdish and even in the very last time are 0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:57.280 hearts that there will also be opened our Syrian again, 0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:01.879 which is actually really important because language that is like 0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:06.280 very like most assuming people right now a speaker and 0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:09.080 write Arabic, soods could be really important. 0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:13.360 Also, yeah, yeah, and it's it's I think it's really 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:15.520 important to point out for people who aren't aware. And 0:27:15.640 --> 0:27:19.560 often in the US media, like Rochio is reported as 0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:22.480 like Kurdi is like a Curdish area, but it may 0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:25.560 have a majority of Curds in some cities, but like, yeah, 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:27.480 there are Assyrian people, there are Arab people that are 0:27:27.520 --> 0:27:31.359 Armenian people, and like they have that same autonomy right 0:27:31.440 --> 0:27:34.520 to educate in their own language and too to like 0:27:34.680 --> 0:27:36.000 organizing their own communities. 0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:39.399 Yes, that's what the idea is all about. And I 0:27:39.520 --> 0:27:42.600 think actually like resources in the last time, that was 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:46.760 kind of trying to create this image of like Curds 0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:50.400 against Arabs, like from the outside in the international media, 0:27:51.000 --> 0:27:54.159 which is absolutely not true. Like the SDS itself is 0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:59.159 like majorly Arabic force, It's not majorly just like if 0:27:59.200 --> 0:28:02.119 you see numbers I think at least, so it's like 0:28:02.280 --> 0:28:05.439 very equal, like everyone who plays a role in US 0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:09.280 and who wants to participate can participate, and everyone has 0:28:09.359 --> 0:28:12.440 a like autonomy also to organize inside of their own 0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:16.720 society or may it be religion or which like also 0:28:16.800 --> 0:28:22.360 Yazdi people like Kurdish people who are Yazidi religion, they 0:28:22.480 --> 0:28:29.560 also have their own organization here. Yeah, that's very important and. 0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:32.879 Their own movement in their own area lar the year 0:28:33.440 --> 0:28:37.800 in that part of Iraq. Like that's like I guess 0:28:37.800 --> 0:28:39.720 an allied movement, would that be fair to say? 0:28:40.800 --> 0:28:43.800 Yeah, I mean it very much like follows the same 0:28:44.200 --> 0:28:46.440 idea and the same concept as. 0:28:48.280 --> 0:28:50.040 Yes and yeah. 0:28:50.040 --> 0:28:53.040 I've also spoken to a ZD people who have come 0:28:53.120 --> 0:28:58.760 to the United States recently, and they under the under 0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:02.680 it they had an apsolutely like inhumane and terrible conditions 0:29:02.840 --> 0:29:08.680 and if it wasn't for the gay then they like 0:29:08.760 --> 0:29:12.360 they wouldn't be They're they're the you know, the they 0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:16.600 the beginning of the their liberation I guess came from 0:29:16.640 --> 0:29:22.320 the epigay and something we'll maybe talk about another time. 0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:23.200 It's a long story. 0:29:23.720 --> 0:29:24.160 I wonder. 0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:29.080 Yeah, Like, obviously this isn't something that has been in 0:29:29.120 --> 0:29:32.200 the news as much because people have been so focused 0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:35.840 on Palestine. I wonder if it's worth discussing, Like the 0:29:36.040 --> 0:29:41.000 Turkish States completely like like two faced approach, right, Like 0:29:41.160 --> 0:29:42.760 on one hand, they're saying. 0:29:44.040 --> 0:29:44.560 We have to. 0:29:46.080 --> 0:29:48.800 Like yeah, it's unacceptable for the bombing of civilians in 0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:51.040 Palestine and like this is completely wrong. And then on 0:29:51.120 --> 0:29:53.640 the other hand that they're doing the same thing right 0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:55.520 like just on on their other border. 0:29:57.520 --> 0:30:00.880 Yeah, well I'm saying we thought anyway, So like Turky 0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:04.560 is not doing anything good for the Palestinian people. Tuki 0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:08.680 is leading Hamas to such an attack like its supporting 0:30:08.760 --> 0:30:13.160 hammers and the like very violent attacks that I made, 0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:17.640 which then was like the preset for the war of 0:30:18.320 --> 0:30:22.520 Israel and international forces against the Palestinian people. So actually, 0:30:23.080 --> 0:30:25.880 who is like suffering from all of this is like 0:30:26.000 --> 0:30:30.719 the normal people, like, which is too for Israel and Palestine. 0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:35.480 So actually we have to say, like what Tuki is 0:30:35.520 --> 0:30:38.560 doing is against the people, like it's also against the 0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:43.320 Palestinian people. And here like they have criticized to clearly 0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:47.240 for example, Israel is saying like saying, Isia is making 0:30:47.320 --> 0:30:51.640 occupation politics and so on. Still Turki also has ties 0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:56.440 with Israel. We also have to say, but like they 0:30:56.520 --> 0:31:01.920 are themselves occupying parts of Wovoir in the shadow of 0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:04.840 these attacks that like all the attention of the world 0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:13.720 was going uh into this region. They attacked like also 0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:17.760 calculating that maybe people will not so much look to 0:31:18.480 --> 0:31:20.720 right now, like at the same time, there's like another 0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:24.960 huge war going on in the Middle East, and they 0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:30.800 are making like very clearly like politics of occupation in 0:31:31.160 --> 0:31:35.760 Aftene and Silkanya and also democratic demographic change. So they 0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:39.320 are like displacing people and placing other people. 0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:45.200 Yeah, yeah, well displacing whom and and placing whom, because 0:31:45.200 --> 0:31:48.120 I think that's important when we talk about like that 0:31:48.280 --> 0:31:52.400 that population and demographic change, like because there's it's not 0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:55.720 They're not just displacing people randomly and replacing them randomly, right. 0:31:56.880 --> 0:32:00.479 Yeah, So actually the people that are targeted most are 0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:04.640 like the Kurdish people in the areas or other people 0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:09.840 that are like not aligned to the took state. And 0:32:10.080 --> 0:32:13.840 then who they place like mostly were like you see, 0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:17.640 they are all these mercenary forces that are actually aligned 0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:22.200 to Turkey or like outside forces already. Like they're like 0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:26.719 they are not Isis, but they are a little bit 0:32:26.760 --> 0:32:29.280 similar to it. They are like mercenary groups that are 0:32:29.400 --> 0:32:34.479 like more or less like what road they go, it's 0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:38.960 they're clarified from outside forces, so they are aligned to 0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:43.560 Turkey and from these people for example, they're families who 0:32:43.560 --> 0:32:45.480 are placed in the region on the one hand. On 0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:48.959 the other hand, they were even examples were Turkey started 0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:54.320 to place some Palestinian people also in this region or 0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:57.760 like the different like they just who they think they 0:32:57.840 --> 0:33:03.360 can align to shortly as a state and doing under 0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:07.520 their control. They were placing in these areas that say 0:33:07.520 --> 0:33:11.960 it like this, like to be able to actually what 0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:16.560 is a part of part of Syria, to occupy it 0:33:16.640 --> 0:33:19.120 long term, like to make this class it's not like 0:33:19.240 --> 0:33:23.200 a short term plan, like they want to stay in 0:33:23.320 --> 0:33:26.800 this area. It's not prevented if it's not liberated. 0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:30.200 Again, yeah, yeah, and I think like again, like people 0:33:30.320 --> 0:33:33.000 I think have become more aware in recent months. People 0:33:33.000 --> 0:33:37.240 are becoming educated on the situation in Palestine settlements. And 0:33:38.680 --> 0:33:40.920 it's not the fault of the people of Palestine that 0:33:41.040 --> 0:33:46.000 they're being like forced to be driven off their ancestral homelands. 0:33:46.440 --> 0:33:48.760 But like what it does mean is that like they 0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:52.720 could be mobilized by someone like Turkey right to just 0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:55.760 do an occupation to to do it, I guess demographic 0:33:55.840 --> 0:33:59.840 transfer somewhere else, and like that's not it, that's not 0:34:00.160 --> 0:34:13.120 like a desirable outcome. So we spoke a little bit 0:34:13.160 --> 0:34:17.800 about like this, like ongoing hostility. He right, and it 0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:22.319 can seem for people out look, I think people only 0:34:22.440 --> 0:34:26.200 hear about in negative and not negative terms is the 0:34:26.239 --> 0:34:28.560 wrong thing. But like they only it only ever enters 0:34:28.560 --> 0:34:31.600 the American press these days when something happens, right, either 0:34:31.640 --> 0:34:34.800 an isis attack something one of the cat like a 0:34:34.960 --> 0:34:38.440 hall or a rog Right, But like, also things are 0:34:38.480 --> 0:34:41.640 continuing to progress, right, It's not just a place that 0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:45.200 it's embattled and fighting to survive, like I know recently 0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:47.640 a new social contract was passed, for instance, So maybe 0:34:47.680 --> 0:34:50.040 you could explain a little bit about the progress that's 0:34:50.040 --> 0:34:54.719 still being made despite this this ongoing like air war, 0:34:54.840 --> 0:34:56.040 during war and land war. 0:34:57.640 --> 0:35:02.560 Yeah. Well, actually I think here whever we always followed 0:35:02.600 --> 0:35:05.440 this philosophy that we are not like sitting here and 0:35:05.520 --> 0:35:08.200 saying our war will come towards us or like it 0:35:08.280 --> 0:35:11.200 will not be like we are very much hopeful and 0:35:11.320 --> 0:35:15.200 we're always working to develop. Like even if these things 0:35:15.239 --> 0:35:18.680 are happening, these attacks are happening, the sovolution very very 0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:23.920 much developed, and the society changed a lot already, A 0:35:24.000 --> 0:35:27.960 lot of institutions have been built up that before we're 0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:31.640 not existing and so on. And as an outcome also 0:35:31.680 --> 0:35:34.560 of this, the new social contract was formed, which actually 0:35:35.000 --> 0:35:37.960 is like a very democratic process. Like let's say if 0:35:38.200 --> 0:35:42.600 the state force for example, has the constitution, the state 0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:48.240 less the self administration has a social contract which actually 0:35:48.400 --> 0:35:51.080 is made by the people because until it was made, 0:35:51.719 --> 0:35:54.040 there was the years of discussion, like there were so 0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:59.000 many meetings, like all of the political representatives from the 0:35:59.080 --> 0:36:02.160 smallest to the biggest level, they were all part of 0:36:02.840 --> 0:36:06.279 the discussion, and also the people themselves they could take 0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:11.360 part in the discussion. So now this is for example, 0:36:11.520 --> 0:36:15.800 ensuring a lot of important decisions. And now like the 0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:19.080 struggle that is before us, like that we are facing 0:36:19.160 --> 0:36:23.280 now is to implement the social contract, which is very important. 0:36:23.280 --> 0:36:27.399 It's also guaranteeing a lot of purgus for women, it's 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:32.080 guaranteeing a lot of focus for society. So I think 0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:38.080 still now like it's a task to like see how 0:36:38.600 --> 0:36:42.319 how it can be implemented in all areas because it's 0:36:42.360 --> 0:36:45.919 always like a very lively process, like it always needs 0:36:45.960 --> 0:36:52.200 the daily struggle, the daily work creating like everything from 0:36:52.719 --> 0:36:56.520 new So there's a lot going on. Actually here we 0:36:56.600 --> 0:36:57.280 can say. 0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:01.040 Yeah, definitely and like it definitely, like it doesn't I 0:37:01.120 --> 0:37:03.520 think it's easy, Like again, if we only report on 0:37:03.600 --> 0:37:06.399 the thing when bad things are happening, like to think 0:37:06.440 --> 0:37:07.520 that it's only bad. 0:37:07.600 --> 0:37:09.640 But there's a lot of like people are still. 0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:12.759 Hopeful, I think, and hopeful for creating and spreading like 0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:16.759 this better future for themselves and the children and for 0:37:16.880 --> 0:37:21.200 the region, which I think is is really admirable. One 0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:24.160 thing that I thought was really admirable is people will 0:37:24.200 --> 0:37:27.279 probably have seen it, but like if they don't like 0:37:27.400 --> 0:37:31.000 follow social media so much. The exchange of statements of 0:37:31.080 --> 0:37:34.880 solidarity between the k and DF, the Cronian National Defense 0:37:34.960 --> 0:37:39.960 Force Battalion five specifically in Myanmar, and the YPG and 0:37:40.040 --> 0:37:45.920 YPG in Rog and they've gone back and forth, right, 0:37:45.960 --> 0:37:48.960 But can you explain a little bit about Obviously, I 0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:51.440 know that the situation in Meanma is very complicated. I 0:37:51.520 --> 0:37:54.160 know I've spent years of my life learning about it. 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:58.600 But can you explain like the importance of that solidarity 0:37:59.000 --> 0:38:02.719 and like also perhaps like it's not it was a 0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:05.160 risk great for everyone to gather like this in in 0:38:05.840 --> 0:38:07.680 the middle of the drone war to make the statement, 0:38:08.360 --> 0:38:11.960 but can you explain like why that solidarity with something 0:38:12.000 --> 0:38:13.040 they felt was so important. 0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:18.480 Yeah, I think in general it's very important to say, 0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:22.800 like the revolutioneb it's not only like avolution for the 0:38:22.920 --> 0:38:27.040 people of itself, but has like a prospected more general 0:38:27.239 --> 0:38:33.040 like to strengthen the friendship of democratic movements anywhere in 0:38:33.120 --> 0:38:36.720 the world. So for sure, there's a lot of colors 0:38:36.800 --> 0:38:39.839 of movements, a lot of different situations in the world, 0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:45.440 and some might also like let's say, see the solidarity 0:38:45.600 --> 0:38:49.960 very strong because actually they are also like Miama, like 0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:54.560 also facing for example, state system which is very much 0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:58.240 influenced by fascism, like for something, we are facing Turkey 0:38:58.440 --> 0:39:02.240 or like in general, this kind of oppression and trying 0:39:02.760 --> 0:39:06.560 to liberate from it. So actually we're always trying to 0:39:06.640 --> 0:39:11.239 have like this exchange in general in the world and 0:39:11.320 --> 0:39:14.239 to have like also to build like how let's say, 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:20.719 like quality, quality relationships, quality friendships with all kinds of 0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:26.520 democratic movements. For sure, everyone is acting on a different 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:29.920 level and so on, but this is like a big 0:39:30.719 --> 0:39:33.160 something really really important for us in general. And I mean, 0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:37.160 like in the revolution, there were also always people from 0:39:37.200 --> 0:39:40.040 the outside, for example, participating in it, so there was 0:39:40.080 --> 0:39:42.360 always kind of the spirit that this is like the 0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:48.440 revolution for the world. Like the Kurdish movement in general 0:39:48.560 --> 0:39:52.600 has like this character like an internationalist character, so it's 0:39:52.680 --> 0:39:58.640 not something like let's say like far from from us, 0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:02.200 Like that's already something like very close to us and 0:40:02.280 --> 0:40:07.320 say like we stand a solidarity also with other liberation movement. 0:40:09.120 --> 0:40:10.920 Yeah, I think it was very it was. I know 0:40:11.040 --> 0:40:13.640 it's very much appreciated in Myanmar because lots lots of 0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:15.600 people from there have reached out to tell me how 0:40:16.040 --> 0:40:19.320 how much they appreciated it. And like I think some 0:40:19.440 --> 0:40:22.400 of them have been in the revolution for seventy years 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:25.960 and their world has not paid attention to them, So 0:40:26.080 --> 0:40:30.719 they really appreciated that. And that's that's solidarity. And like 0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:34.200 I know that the solidarity runs a lot deeper than statements, 0:40:34.360 --> 0:40:38.280 but like we will cover that they extended that solidarity 0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:42.040 in another episode because again I think it it merits. 0:40:42.680 --> 0:40:46.320 It's a in recording. I wonder a better van what 0:40:47.560 --> 0:40:49.600 Obviously people will be listening, right, and I think a 0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:52.680 lot of people will be very supportive of the revolution 0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:55.840 in raja Va and they want to help it and 0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:59.200 see it succeed and certainly not to see No one 0:40:59.280 --> 0:41:02.560 wants to see civilians dying in drones tacks, right, No 0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:04.320 one want to see anyone drying in drowned jacks. But 0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:08.800 how can they if they are in the US or 0:41:09.080 --> 0:41:13.120 in Europe or elsewhere in the world but not in Rogio, 0:41:14.080 --> 0:41:17.560 how can they help? How can they support the revolution 0:41:17.840 --> 0:41:21.839 through its like difficult through these difficult moments, right when 0:41:22.080 --> 0:41:24.120 people don't have electricity to heat their homes in the 0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:24.839 winter and things. 0:41:26.920 --> 0:41:32.200 Yeah, I think there's a lot of possibilities, like sights 0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:35.440 coming here, which also is the point, but I mean 0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:39.959 in general, like you have all of the h the possibilities, 0:41:40.040 --> 0:41:43.480 like from educating yourself what is the revolution actually about? 0:41:43.719 --> 0:41:49.040 Understanding it, from spreading its ideas, which is maybe the 0:41:49.120 --> 0:41:53.320 most important task. May it be like spreading knowledge about 0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:56.560 the spreading knowledge also about the attacks that are happening, 0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:59.719 clarifying what's happening and why it's happening. To read the 0:41:59.760 --> 0:42:03.640 book Political Background orso of international politics. That's very important 0:42:03.640 --> 0:42:08.200 for understands. And also you can always like share. For example, 0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:10.800 let's say you have social media. Let's say you're part 0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:14.200 of a political movement or something. You can discuss about it. 0:42:14.560 --> 0:42:17.560 You can inform yourself about it, you can make a 0:42:17.640 --> 0:42:20.400 presentation about it in your university. Like there are so 0:42:20.480 --> 0:42:24.120 many things that you can do like you can read 0:42:24.160 --> 0:42:26.520 the book about it and make a book presentation, like 0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:31.080 there's a million things a person can do. Or as 0:42:31.120 --> 0:42:34.759 you're doing, you can connect to the Kurdish refugees or 0:42:34.880 --> 0:42:39.320 to the society Kurdish people in the diaspora in general, 0:42:39.400 --> 0:42:43.520 like outside of Curtis some wherever you might be. Yeah, 0:42:43.920 --> 0:42:49.879 that's possibility. Also, like you can organize solidarity also practical solidarity. 0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:54.959 Also like let's say, like intellection works like write at texts, share, 0:42:55.320 --> 0:42:58.880 discuss about it. Like maybe it's difficult in the beginning 0:42:58.960 --> 0:43:02.680 to understand something or to gain information, but right now 0:43:02.800 --> 0:43:06.920 there's actually a lot of information also available in English language, 0:43:07.000 --> 0:43:07.319 I think. 0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:13.440 Yeah, you could read for about a year and non 0:43:13.480 --> 0:43:16.759 stuff I think and still not not have read all 0:43:16.840 --> 0:43:19.600 of it. But are there books You've recommended A couple 0:43:19.640 --> 0:43:21.719 of books to me which I think have been really 0:43:21.760 --> 0:43:24.440 good and I've shared with my friends in Memma and 0:43:24.520 --> 0:43:26.640 I know that they've enjoyed. Are there any books that 0:43:26.640 --> 0:43:27.720 you'd recommend to listeners? 0:43:29.920 --> 0:43:33.000 I mean and Jina, Like this revolution is based on 0:43:33.160 --> 0:43:38.040 the sorts of a so I think a good idea 0:43:38.320 --> 0:43:41.720 if you actually want to understand, like the ideological basis 0:43:41.800 --> 0:43:47.000 of it, about women's liberations, about how democratic society can 0:43:47.080 --> 0:43:50.400 be organized. So actually there's like this book called of 0:43:50.560 --> 0:43:53.960 him Sociology of Freedom. I think it's very important and 0:43:54.040 --> 0:43:57.200 so a little bit like understandable. I think for someone 0:43:57.239 --> 0:44:00.279 who comes maybe from academic or from a lesters or 0:44:01.000 --> 0:44:03.320 from a democratic background, I think they will read it, 0:44:03.440 --> 0:44:05.600 they will be able to understand it. But there are 0:44:05.640 --> 0:44:08.960 also many other books that are translated to English or 0:44:09.080 --> 0:44:13.120 like texts that are available, or in general there are 0:44:13.160 --> 0:44:17.319 books about the volution from people, for example, coming from 0:44:17.360 --> 0:44:21.400 the outside. I have to think right now in English, 0:44:21.480 --> 0:44:23.840 I'm sorry, I know there are some also some in 0:44:24.040 --> 0:44:28.640 the different languages about the women's revolution, so I have 0:44:28.760 --> 0:44:32.439 to think that available. I think that's also like there's 0:44:32.560 --> 0:44:37.080 one called like the politics of Freedom or something. And 0:44:37.239 --> 0:44:39.880 there are some books that were published because they were 0:44:40.080 --> 0:44:44.480 like the diplomatic conferences in most of them I think 0:44:44.560 --> 0:44:50.320 happening in Europe, which as they were like some like 0:44:50.480 --> 0:44:57.320 collections of philosophical discussion, uh, like the published, So I 0:44:57.400 --> 0:45:00.920 think that's also very available. Well, I'm sorry, I have 0:45:02.040 --> 0:45:03.360 tight Yeah, I know. 0:45:03.520 --> 0:45:06.920 There's a good book called Revolution in Rogevat, which was 0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:11.399 translated from German that like I think it lays out 0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:16.360 like how things happen. It's a little bit a little 0:45:16.360 --> 0:45:18.080 bit dated now. I think it was published in like 0:45:18.239 --> 0:45:21.640 twenty sixteen, so you know, things have changed over a 0:45:21.680 --> 0:45:23.759 few years. But I think that's a decent book for 0:45:23.840 --> 0:45:26.800 people who are interested as well that I know a 0:45:26.840 --> 0:45:31.640 lot of people have recommended. Yeah, and then I wonder, like, 0:45:31.960 --> 0:45:34.400 because this isn't being like, I know, you made the 0:45:34.440 --> 0:45:36.960 point earlier about that the world was looking at Palestine 0:45:37.480 --> 0:45:40.560 when the Tax of Palestine happened. I was in Cambischlow 0:45:40.719 --> 0:45:44.480 in rochebl and like, it's impossible for me to sell stories. 0:45:45.160 --> 0:45:48.239 It's impossible for me to sell anything to like big 0:45:48.360 --> 0:45:51.040 news outlets so that they simply like, don't think American 0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:53.560 people can care about two parts of the world at once. 0:45:53.640 --> 0:45:57.280 I guess I wonder where people can follow and get updates, 0:45:57.400 --> 0:46:01.200 Like it's a good social media or news outlets that 0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:02.960 you would suggest for people who do want to keep 0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:04.040 in touch with what's happening. 0:46:06.080 --> 0:46:10.080 Yeah, I mean, we have like a Twitter Facebook page 0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:16.040 as a Whitejay Information on Documentation Office like YPJ Information. 0:46:17.160 --> 0:46:22.920 But also there's like other places like the Information Center, 0:46:23.040 --> 0:46:29.080 which is very much like like independently accriminating like knowledge 0:46:29.200 --> 0:46:31.680 and sharing in a way that I think is understandable 0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:35.080 for everyone. Like there's also from the SDI forces the 0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:38.920 Press Center, which just has like also the English homepage 0:46:39.000 --> 0:46:43.480 is sharing like sometimes statements and comcrete information. There's an 0:46:43.719 --> 0:46:48.759 Internationalist Commune of Sharing an English language, a lot of 0:46:48.840 --> 0:46:52.880 information on Twitter and on their homepage. So there's actually 0:46:52.880 --> 0:46:56.200 a lot of sources if you go look for it, 0:46:57.040 --> 0:46:58.279 that are very good. I think. 0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:01.680 Also yes, and like on the ground people who can 0:47:01.680 --> 0:47:05.160 show you what's happening, And yeah, I think I think 0:47:05.200 --> 0:47:08.040 that's wonderful. But anything else you'd like us to get 0:47:08.080 --> 0:47:10.439 to before we finish up, anything else you want people 0:47:10.520 --> 0:47:10.719 to know. 0:47:12.960 --> 0:47:14.960 No, I think it's very important to say again that 0:47:15.120 --> 0:47:19.359 it's like very very valuable for the revolution for people 0:47:19.520 --> 0:47:22.560 to take part in actions, to make their voice, hard, 0:47:23.040 --> 0:47:25.920 to organize, to make the solution known, to get it 0:47:26.200 --> 0:47:29.920 to know for themselves, and that it does actually make 0:47:29.960 --> 0:47:33.399 a very very huge difference like the struggle that people 0:47:33.520 --> 0:47:36.000 everyone in the world are making for the solution and 0:47:36.120 --> 0:47:40.759 that it needs it. That like it's very like critical 0:47:40.880 --> 0:47:43.400 for the use of a revolution that everyone's world it 0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:48.799 gets known and gets like solidarity that received this are 0:47:48.920 --> 0:47:53.239 very meaningful. I think that's very important to understand. Besides this, 0:47:53.560 --> 0:47:56.719 I don't know. I hope yes, that's I think. 0:47:57.400 --> 0:47:57.600 Yeah. 0:47:57.920 --> 0:48:00.360 I think it's really good to realize that it's not 0:48:00.600 --> 0:48:03.160 it's not a it's you know, it's a very worthwhile 0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:06.440 thing to do just to increase people's awareness and solidarity. 0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:09.600 And thank you so much for your time. I know Internet, 0:48:09.600 --> 0:48:11.399 it's not the easiest thing to come by the way 0:48:11.440 --> 0:48:13.480 you are. Say thank you so much. V I'm for 0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:15.160 taking the time to talk to us today. 0:48:16.239 --> 0:48:18.960 Well, thank you also for talking well to the topic. 0:48:19.040 --> 0:48:20.480 I was very happy to join us. 0:48:21.520 --> 0:48:22.600 Great, thanks so much. 0:48:35.800 --> 0:48:38.680 Welcome back to it could happen here everybody. I am 0:48:38.880 --> 0:48:41.879 Robert Evans, and I want to start today by kind 0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:45.680 of proposing a theoretical Right, you wake up in the 0:48:45.760 --> 0:48:48.719 morning and something is awry, you know, maybe maybe you 0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:52.000 hear shots, maybe there's some sort of natural disaster, you know, 0:48:52.120 --> 0:48:56.719 maybe it's that that weird Havana syndron death sound from 0:48:56.760 --> 0:48:58.759 the Obama movie that just came out on what was 0:48:58.800 --> 0:49:02.120 it Netflix? But something's fucked up, and you know, most people, 0:49:02.239 --> 0:49:04.640 I think especially most people who listen to this podcast 0:49:04.680 --> 0:49:07.120 you've probably had conversations with your friends and loved ones 0:49:07.160 --> 0:49:09.839 about what do we do when the quote unquote apocalypse 0:49:10.000 --> 0:49:11.719 or shit hits the fan. You know, you've got your 0:49:11.800 --> 0:49:13.800 friends who maybe you know they have a lot of 0:49:13.800 --> 0:49:16.400 stored food, or they have some other skill that you 0:49:16.440 --> 0:49:19.200 think would be useful. And you've got some stuff that's 0:49:19.400 --> 0:49:20.799 that that that you know you know. 0:49:20.880 --> 0:49:21.200 How to do. 0:49:21.360 --> 0:49:23.719 You've got your people right that you would want to 0:49:23.840 --> 0:49:26.839 be with and around if something's really going wrong out there, 0:49:26.840 --> 0:49:28.520 because you know how to take care of each other. 0:49:30.120 --> 0:49:32.279 But how do you get in contact right? Assuming you 0:49:32.320 --> 0:49:34.719 don't all live together, assuming you're not all on some 0:49:34.920 --> 0:49:38.080 sort of commune type situation, as most people aren't. You're 0:49:38.080 --> 0:49:40.839 probably scattered throughout the city. Maybe you've got some friends out, 0:49:40.960 --> 0:49:42.759 you know, in the suburbs. Maybe you've got some friends 0:49:42.760 --> 0:49:44.480 who live out in rural land. Maybe you've just got 0:49:44.520 --> 0:49:46.920 a friend who lives halfway across town. And you know 0:49:47.040 --> 0:49:49.560 that's no problem when you got a phone and you've 0:49:49.640 --> 0:49:52.600 got you know, Google Maps working. But can you get 0:49:52.640 --> 0:49:54.759 there on your own? Can you get there or get 0:49:54.800 --> 0:49:57.360 into contact with them if the streets are all clogged 0:49:57.480 --> 0:49:59.920 up with cars or whatever? Like, how are you going 0:50:00.200 --> 0:50:02.440 to reach them? How are you going to you know, 0:50:02.560 --> 0:50:05.040 get in touch in order to figure out what's going on? 0:50:05.200 --> 0:50:07.319 And how are you going to stay in touch while 0:50:07.360 --> 0:50:09.880 you handle whatever you need to handle for whatever is 0:50:09.960 --> 0:50:12.480 going wrong. Well, that's what we're going to talk about today, 0:50:12.520 --> 0:50:16.560 because if the cell networks are down, if they're being blocked, 0:50:16.680 --> 0:50:22.160 if you know, the Obama situation happens, there are things 0:50:22.239 --> 0:50:26.359 you can do to allow you and your friends, comrades, 0:50:26.719 --> 0:50:29.520 affinity group, whatever you want to call them, to stay 0:50:29.600 --> 0:50:32.400 in touch. And this a lot of this revolves around 0:50:32.840 --> 0:50:36.560 a kind of technical usage called a mesh network. And 0:50:36.760 --> 0:50:38.880 I don't know much about that because I am a 0:50:38.960 --> 0:50:41.400 big dummy. But a person who is not a dummy 0:50:41.800 --> 0:50:44.759 is our guest today. They go by Hydroponic Trash on 0:50:44.880 --> 0:50:46.719 Twitter and they are going to talk to us today 0:50:46.800 --> 0:50:50.400 about how to set up independent communications networks that do 0:50:50.560 --> 0:50:53.320 not rely on the standard grid. Hello and welcome to 0:50:53.360 --> 0:50:55.600 the show. Hey, what's up? 0:50:55.640 --> 0:50:56.320 Thanks for having me on? 0:50:57.520 --> 0:50:59.759 Yeah, thank you for coming on. You posted a thread 0:50:59.840 --> 0:51:05.000 on Twitter about using you know, it's called like LOWRA 0:51:05.239 --> 0:51:07.080 low frequency radio? 0:51:07.280 --> 0:51:09.879 Is that what it stands for? Yeah? 0:51:10.200 --> 0:51:13.360 LORA stands technically for long range but Yeah, it's a 0:51:13.440 --> 0:51:19.360 long range frequency radio that broadcasts a pretty uh specific 0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:22.759 wavelength that can travel really far throughout the air. So 0:51:23.880 --> 0:51:28.000 it's perfect for communications long distance. 0:51:28.360 --> 0:51:30.680 And it's if you've got devices set up on this 0:51:30.840 --> 0:51:33.600 they each basically act as nodes, right, So the more 0:51:33.680 --> 0:51:37.279 you have the kind of wider signal distribution you get 0:51:37.360 --> 0:51:40.279 if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, Like if you've 0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:43.120 got someone three miles away and then another person five 0:51:43.200 --> 0:51:45.120 miles to the west of them, then you kind of 0:51:45.719 --> 0:51:47.840 are able to cover that whole distance. 0:51:49.400 --> 0:51:52.319 Yeah, exactly. So think of it like a relay system, right. 0:51:52.400 --> 0:51:52.560 Yeah. 0:51:52.600 --> 0:51:54.520 One person has a message, they send it off to 0:51:54.600 --> 0:51:57.720 another person. That person passes it on to the next node, 0:51:58.360 --> 0:52:02.000 and so mesh networks are really resilient when it comes 0:52:02.080 --> 0:52:05.719 to emergencies, when it comes to protests, when it comes 0:52:05.840 --> 0:52:10.680 to occupation and conflict zones, because if one node goes down, 0:52:11.120 --> 0:52:12.960 as long as there's other ones that can pick up 0:52:13.000 --> 0:52:16.480 that message and keep repeating it and broadcasting it out. 0:52:16.880 --> 0:52:20.840 So it's a really interesting piece of technology that is 0:52:21.000 --> 0:52:25.319 similar to like traditional radios, but also different because all 0:52:25.360 --> 0:52:28.560 the communications can be encrypted end to end. 0:52:28.840 --> 0:52:31.480 Which is a huge delay of security because you can 0:52:32.000 --> 0:52:34.799 the thing most people's default. If you're thinking like, well, 0:52:34.840 --> 0:52:36.800 how do you get some like walkie talkies? 0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:37.000 Right? 0:52:37.120 --> 0:52:38.800 You know, you get some and those can you know, 0:52:38.880 --> 0:52:41.320 those have their place and stuff, but they are also 0:52:41.600 --> 0:52:43.920 not always the most secure options. So being able to 0:52:44.040 --> 0:52:48.040 encrypthit is a huge deal, especially when you're talking about 0:52:48.160 --> 0:52:51.000 like outside of a shit hits the fan kind of deal, 0:52:51.040 --> 0:52:53.880 which is less likely than you know, some sort of 0:52:54.719 --> 0:52:57.440 civil unrest protest use case. You know, being able to 0:52:57.520 --> 0:53:01.880 actually encrypt is huge. Yeah, so I'm a dummy. I 0:53:01.920 --> 0:53:06.719 don't understand much about setting up my own technology independently, 0:53:07.239 --> 0:53:09.800 but I find this interesting. I see the use case. 0:53:09.920 --> 0:53:13.440 I decide I want to you know, set this up 0:53:13.560 --> 0:53:17.520 and start, you know, building an emergency mesh network with 0:53:17.640 --> 0:53:20.320 a half dozen of my friends. Where do I start? 0:53:22.239 --> 0:53:25.040 So the first thing is you'll need some hardware that 0:53:25.200 --> 0:53:29.359 supports LORA. There are a ton of different things out there, 0:53:29.680 --> 0:53:33.120 ranging from maybe twenty twenty five bucks going all the 0:53:33.160 --> 0:53:36.280 way up to thousands of dollars. So there's a big range, 0:53:36.440 --> 0:53:41.920 and that range really depends on the enclosure, what's included 0:53:42.000 --> 0:53:44.680 in it, the broadcast strength, all that good stuff. So obviously, 0:53:44.840 --> 0:53:48.120 the cheaper you go, the weaker the broadcast strength is 0:53:48.640 --> 0:53:51.920 there might be development boards that are just literally like 0:53:52.320 --> 0:53:57.120 the PCB, like actual hardware with no case around it. Yeah, yeah, 0:53:57.760 --> 0:53:59.319 and there's there's some that you can just pick up 0:53:59.360 --> 0:54:02.920 and immediately use, and so it kind of depends. But 0:54:03.040 --> 0:54:06.880 that's the first step is finding hardware that can handle 0:54:06.960 --> 0:54:10.480 Laura and then you know, obviously getting it and then 0:54:11.000 --> 0:54:15.799 flashing it with the correct software. And that sounds really complicated, 0:54:15.960 --> 0:54:20.040 but for our purposes of sending text messages without any 0:54:20.120 --> 0:54:24.600 kind of cellular, LTE or Wi Fi connection, you can 0:54:24.719 --> 0:54:28.560 use super cheap devices and flashing them is you click 0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:29.879 a couple of buttons and you're done. 0:54:30.760 --> 0:54:33.560 So, first off, do you have any kind of specific 0:54:34.040 --> 0:54:36.759 you know, I know you're working on a text piece 0:54:36.800 --> 0:54:38.600 that you can put up to explain all this, and 0:54:38.920 --> 0:54:41.799 I will certainly share that as soon as it gets up, 0:54:41.840 --> 0:54:44.279 But do you have any specific like if somebody's saying, hey, 0:54:44.320 --> 0:54:47.080 I've got you know, a budget of fifty bucks, you know, 0:54:47.360 --> 0:54:50.240 or so, is there a complete device you would recommend 0:54:50.280 --> 0:54:53.560 if they're or somewhere in that median range, like kind 0:54:53.560 --> 0:54:55.840 of on the lower end, a thing that someone doesn't 0:54:55.920 --> 0:54:58.080 know how to take, you know, a raw board and 0:54:58.239 --> 0:55:00.880 craft that into a usable device you would recommend they 0:55:01.360 --> 0:55:03.040 purchase is to start us off here. 0:55:04.480 --> 0:55:07.200 Yeah, definitely. So I kind of have two different options. 0:55:07.480 --> 0:55:11.040 One is a standalone option that can kind of work 0:55:11.120 --> 0:55:15.319 by itself, completely independent of anything else, and another one 0:55:15.440 --> 0:55:18.440 uses your phone, So you'll flash it to the board 0:55:18.640 --> 0:55:20.880 and then connective or bluetooth to your phone just like 0:55:20.960 --> 0:55:22.280 a pair of headphone. 0:55:22.120 --> 0:55:23.680 Lost so easy. 0:55:23.880 --> 0:55:27.120 Yeah, and so you kind of have options if you 0:55:27.160 --> 0:55:30.279 want a standalone version. There's a company called lily Go 0:55:31.239 --> 0:55:33.799 that makes a thing called a te Deck and it's 0:55:34.200 --> 0:55:37.040 pretty small. It looks like a BlackBerry Clone. 0:55:37.280 --> 0:55:37.520 Yeah. 0:55:38.719 --> 0:55:40.239 It has a little mouse thing. 0:55:40.640 --> 0:55:42.520 Yeah, it looks like a BlackBerry kind of crossed with 0:55:42.600 --> 0:55:46.719 a game camera. Yeah yeah yeah yeah, because it's like 0:55:46.800 --> 0:55:48.680 thicker in the back, it's got that big antenna yeah 0:55:48.719 --> 0:55:50.200 yeah yeah yeah. 0:55:50.640 --> 0:55:54.440 And so the Lilygo t deck is what this is called. 0:55:55.440 --> 0:55:59.279 It's a BlackBerry Clone basically has lowra built in, it 0:55:59.360 --> 0:56:02.239 has bluetooth, and so all you have to do is 0:56:02.560 --> 0:56:07.040 get powered to this thing, flash it with meshitastic, and 0:56:07.719 --> 0:56:09.839 there you go. Now you have a Now you can 0:56:09.920 --> 0:56:12.799 type out messages, you can send direct messages, you can 0:56:12.840 --> 0:56:16.600 send encrypted messages, all with one device. That's thirty five dollars. 0:56:17.440 --> 0:56:19.600 Oh man, that's great, And this is something you can 0:56:19.680 --> 0:56:25.319 get like Ali Express was your recommendation, right, Yeah, Ali Express. 0:56:25.120 --> 0:56:27.359 Probably be the best if you're trying to order a lot. 0:56:27.560 --> 0:56:30.359 If you want one right now, you can order them 0:56:30.400 --> 0:56:32.880 on places like Amazon, but it's going to cost you 0:56:33.080 --> 0:56:34.440 and also fuck Amazon. 0:56:34.680 --> 0:56:40.280 So yeah, I mean you are slightly doomed to support 0:56:40.360 --> 0:56:45.200 one horrible billionaire or another like Ali expresses. But no, 0:56:45.520 --> 0:56:46.719 I get it. 0:56:48.520 --> 0:56:51.000 Yeah, And I mean one of the upsides to like 0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:54.360 an all in one thing like this is like I 0:56:54.480 --> 0:56:56.640 three D printed this case, but you don't have to 0:56:56.960 --> 0:56:59.640 print a case. You can literally just set this into 0:56:59.719 --> 0:57:03.040 a box or something and protect it. So there's a 0:57:03.080 --> 0:57:05.799 lot of options on the cases that you want to use. 0:57:05.840 --> 0:57:08.040 You could buy pre made cases, or you could just 0:57:08.480 --> 0:57:12.240 I don't know, just put something to protect the board 0:57:12.360 --> 0:57:14.360 back here and then screw on an antenna. 0:57:14.440 --> 0:57:14.799 You're good. 0:57:14.880 --> 0:57:16.480 Yeah, I mean I've seen some shit people do with 0:57:16.600 --> 0:57:30.680 duct tape. You can figure it out. So my question is, 0:57:30.880 --> 0:57:32.600 or my other question is, you were talking about a 0:57:32.640 --> 0:57:36.960 way that you can you can basically do the calming 0:57:37.200 --> 0:57:39.480 like communications through yourself on right, you can hook that 0:57:39.560 --> 0:57:42.640 into the next mesh network. Is that something you're able 0:57:42.680 --> 0:57:44.800 to kind of go over at least in brief or 0:57:44.800 --> 0:57:46.880 provide people with, you know, here's where they can go 0:57:47.000 --> 0:57:48.080 to read about how to do that. 0:57:49.240 --> 0:57:49.439 Yeah. 0:57:49.680 --> 0:57:53.960 So the same company, lily Ego makes a smaller little device. 0:57:54.120 --> 0:57:57.520 It's really small, maybe about an inch yeah. Yeah, and 0:57:57.600 --> 0:57:59.959 it has a screen on it so when you power 0:58:00.080 --> 0:58:01.840 at all and you can actually see the messages come 0:58:01.960 --> 0:58:04.160 through on the screen on the board itself. 0:58:04.560 --> 0:58:04.800 Yeah. 0:58:04.920 --> 0:58:07.840 And it connects through Bluetooth to your phone and you 0:58:08.120 --> 0:58:11.520 use the mesh Tastic app to basically text like you 0:58:11.640 --> 0:58:14.920 normally would on a phone. Yeah, it looks just like 0:58:15.080 --> 0:58:19.200 signal pretty much if you're used to that that UI 0:58:19.520 --> 0:58:22.160 but uh yeah, it's super small. Yeah, it's perfect. 0:58:22.360 --> 0:58:25.000 And so you're just also using that mesh Tastic app 0:58:25.120 --> 0:58:27.920 to flash the software on the devices once you get them. 0:58:27.920 --> 0:58:29.000 Am I am I understanding that? 0:58:29.120 --> 0:58:29.200 Right? 0:58:29.280 --> 0:58:32.280 Yeah? I'm just asking I'm reasking everything because I want 0:58:32.320 --> 0:58:34.520 to try to make this accessible for both me when 0:58:34.560 --> 0:58:36.080 I do it and for our listeners. 0:58:37.200 --> 0:58:42.919 Yeah, for sure. So mesh Tastic is the software that's 0:58:43.000 --> 0:58:46.360 running on these devices. And what mesh Tastic does is 0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:50.520 a device that's also running Meshtastic can communicate with each 0:58:50.520 --> 0:58:55.560 other over LOWRA long distance. And so you need the 0:58:55.600 --> 0:58:59.320 hardware that supports the LORAW and a client which is 0:58:59.400 --> 0:59:02.080 Mestastic that will allow you to send tax messages and 0:59:02.120 --> 0:59:04.680 stuff like that, and do the encryption handle all that stuff. 0:59:05.240 --> 0:59:09.720 To actually flash these, it's super simple. Mesh Tastic has 0:59:10.040 --> 0:59:13.160 a link that you can go to. You plug in 0:59:13.200 --> 0:59:16.480 your device, depending on the version, you hold down a button, 0:59:17.200 --> 0:59:22.240 you press flash, wait like ten seconds and boom, now 0:59:22.280 --> 0:59:26.080 you have a working Meshtastic node, probably in underneath ten 0:59:26.120 --> 0:59:27.920 minutes after you get this out of the box, you 0:59:28.000 --> 0:59:30.880 could be up and running in about ten to fifteen minutes. 0:59:31.160 --> 0:59:34.520 That's great and so all right. If I if I've 0:59:34.600 --> 0:59:36.560 got like say, I'm the guy in my group of 0:59:36.640 --> 0:59:40.080 friends who has more disposable cash, and I want to 0:59:40.080 --> 0:59:42.880 get this going. So I pick up five of those 0:59:43.320 --> 0:59:46.560 lily like boxes three D printed case for them or 0:59:46.880 --> 0:59:49.640 just wrap them in something, you know, and I keep one, 0:59:49.760 --> 0:59:51.120 I hand them out to my friends. I get the 0:59:51.200 --> 0:59:56.640 software on all of them. How how do I get 0:59:56.720 --> 0:59:58.520 them all kind of in comms together? 0:59:58.680 --> 0:59:59.000 Right? Like? 0:59:59.240 --> 1:00:01.320 Or if you know, my friends buy them independently and 1:00:01.400 --> 1:00:03.640 we each flash them and get them up and running. 1:00:03.640 --> 1:00:05.800 How do we all kind of connect? Like? What is 1:00:05.880 --> 1:00:06.480 that process? 1:00:06.640 --> 1:00:06.680 Like? 1:00:08.080 --> 1:00:10.480 Yeah? So the good thing with mesh Tastic is it 1:00:10.520 --> 1:00:15.480 automatically handles adding new nodes to the network, and so 1:00:16.080 --> 1:00:19.160 as soon as a new device that runs mess Tastic 1:00:19.440 --> 1:00:24.160 comes online, it'll broadcast and tell the entire mesh Tastic 1:00:24.240 --> 1:00:27.560 network nearby, Hey, a new device got added. You can 1:00:27.640 --> 1:00:30.800 send messages to me. So mesh Tastic has two different 1:00:30.840 --> 1:00:33.960 things that it can do. It can do broadcasts, where 1:00:34.120 --> 1:00:37.240 you're sending out a message to pretty much everyone who 1:00:37.360 --> 1:00:42.320 has a device that's reachable, and that's good for say, 1:00:42.400 --> 1:00:45.680 for instance, you know your friend comes online, you can't 1:00:45.720 --> 1:00:47.880 talk to them directly. You could send them broadcast out 1:00:47.920 --> 1:00:52.680 and say hey Joe, what device are you and they 1:00:52.760 --> 1:00:56.320 can reply and broadcast everybody Okay, I'm on this device. 1:00:56.960 --> 1:01:00.560 You can also do direct messages, so once you know 1:01:00.960 --> 1:01:04.120 that person's device name, you can actually send messages directly 1:01:04.240 --> 1:01:06.680 to them. Now, keep in mind it's not encrypted because 1:01:06.800 --> 1:01:11.480 technically it's broadcasting throughout each node. It's just like filtering 1:01:11.560 --> 1:01:16.640 out the messages for whoever it was addressed for but yeah, 1:01:16.640 --> 1:01:18.960 at that point then you can start dming people. And 1:01:19.480 --> 1:01:22.200 if you want to get started with encryption, it's also 1:01:22.280 --> 1:01:25.800 really easy. You can use the mesh Tastic client, so 1:01:25.840 --> 1:01:28.160 you can install it on your computer, plug it into 1:01:28.200 --> 1:01:32.640 your computer, and just set an encryption key, a passcode, 1:01:33.480 --> 1:01:37.080 whatever you want to do to secure your communications, and 1:01:37.200 --> 1:01:41.840 then once that person has that passcode, key, whatever, those 1:01:41.880 --> 1:01:46.840 two devices can connect and talk completely encrypted, either one 1:01:46.920 --> 1:01:49.960 on one or if multiple people. Say, for instance, you 1:01:50.040 --> 1:01:54.120 have an affinity group of like ten people, you all say, okay, hey, 1:01:54.680 --> 1:01:56.960 in an inn emergency, let's meet up at this place 1:01:57.640 --> 1:02:00.720 and physically share a key or pass code or whatever. 1:02:01.880 --> 1:02:05.440 Once everybody has that, you can also do encrypted broadcasts 1:02:05.680 --> 1:02:08.720 to multiple people as well, so getting up and running 1:02:08.920 --> 1:02:13.080 is super quick. When it comes to flashing, actually communicating 1:02:13.120 --> 1:02:16.520 with people makes sense, especially on your phone. It feels 1:02:16.680 --> 1:02:18.520 just like a normal texting situation. 1:02:18.800 --> 1:02:20.040 So that's great. 1:02:21.040 --> 1:02:23.880 Yeah, it's really it's really amazing. I mean, this is 1:02:24.520 --> 1:02:28.040 a really interesting technology because, like I've been interested in 1:02:28.440 --> 1:02:32.400 radio for a while. But the biggest downside to that 1:02:32.840 --> 1:02:36.880 is a you can't encrypt any kind of radio communications 1:02:37.040 --> 1:02:41.840 in the US b A license. Yeah, unless if you're 1:02:41.880 --> 1:02:44.360 the cops of the military or the FEDS, you cannot 1:02:44.440 --> 1:02:46.760 encrypt shit, and if you do, it's it's kind of 1:02:46.760 --> 1:02:53.600 an issue. But yeah, you can't encrypt messages on regular radios. 1:02:54.680 --> 1:02:59.080 Another thing is like usability. If you hand somebody like 1:02:59.200 --> 1:03:02.880 a bow thaying handheld radio, most people are not going 1:03:02.960 --> 1:03:03.160 to know. 1:03:03.520 --> 1:03:04.480 What to do with it at all. 1:03:04.520 --> 1:03:05.840 They're going to be like, what the fuck is this? 1:03:06.520 --> 1:03:09.200 But if I hand you a BlackBerry Clone and say, 1:03:09.440 --> 1:03:12.080 just type, and if you want to send a DM 1:03:12.120 --> 1:03:14.280 to somebody to find them and just send it like 1:03:14.560 --> 1:03:17.840 it's it's really easy for your average person to pick 1:03:17.880 --> 1:03:20.400 it up and use it, which is honestly the best 1:03:20.640 --> 1:03:24.040 kind of situation, especially in an emergency where you can't 1:03:24.040 --> 1:03:27.920 really rely on highly technical people all the time, because 1:03:28.080 --> 1:03:31.840 what if everybody in your affinity group isn't super technical, 1:03:32.000 --> 1:03:35.760 you know, So it's a it's a good common device 1:03:35.800 --> 1:03:38.760 that anybody can pick up and start sending messages, even 1:03:38.840 --> 1:03:40.680 encrypted messages, pretty easily. 1:03:42.440 --> 1:03:46.080 So I think that covers the technical basics of what 1:03:46.200 --> 1:03:47.760 you need to do. I did want to ask real 1:03:47.880 --> 1:03:51.000 quick before we get onto some of the more ideological 1:03:51.560 --> 1:03:55.480 you know stuff here conversations about like why you specifically 1:03:55.520 --> 1:03:58.360 gotten into this and why, like this is important for people. 1:03:58.720 --> 1:04:00.800 I wanted to ask just really quickly in terms of 1:04:00.840 --> 1:04:03.840 that three D printed case, did you just go search 1:04:04.000 --> 1:04:06.080 in some repository and find when someone had made or 1:04:06.120 --> 1:04:07.800 is there one that you've put up somewhere that you 1:04:07.880 --> 1:04:08.840 might recommend to people? 1:04:09.600 --> 1:04:09.800 Yeah? 1:04:09.840 --> 1:04:14.960 Actually it was recently uploaded to thing thing evers, which 1:04:15.000 --> 1:04:18.760 is a website that has free three D print plans 1:04:18.840 --> 1:04:22.880 and files. And so I just searched up lilygo t 1:04:23.120 --> 1:04:26.640 deck on thing everse and the full case, I mean 1:04:26.680 --> 1:04:31.680 the back yeah has Yeah, it looks like an actual device. 1:04:31.880 --> 1:04:35.840 And I'm assuming that one's just pla yeah, just Pazza 1:04:35.880 --> 1:04:38.640 type super basic. Yeah, yeah, looks great. 1:04:39.920 --> 1:04:43.800 Yeah, and this only took all these pieces snapped together, 1:04:43.920 --> 1:04:49.360 so no glue required, and all these pieces took roughly 1:04:49.400 --> 1:04:52.320 about eight hours to print at one hundred percent density. 1:04:52.480 --> 1:04:57.960 So you have a pretty solid case. With plans that 1:04:58.000 --> 1:05:01.320 are available online and an eight hours, you can have 1:05:01.760 --> 1:05:07.160 a literal professional looking device that's protected and able to go, 1:05:07.640 --> 1:05:09.840 you know, in adverse situations. 1:05:10.440 --> 1:05:10.640 Yeah. 1:05:11.320 --> 1:05:12.520 So now I want to get into some of the 1:05:12.600 --> 1:05:15.480 more kind of like just talking about first off, what 1:05:15.640 --> 1:05:17.960 got you into this? Like, when did you decide this 1:05:18.160 --> 1:05:20.200 is a skill I want to develop and a thing 1:05:20.240 --> 1:05:21.080 I want to figure out. 1:05:22.800 --> 1:05:23.000 Yeah. 1:05:23.320 --> 1:05:26.400 I mean, so for my day job, I'm an offensive 1:05:26.440 --> 1:05:29.439 security consultant, which is just a fancy way of saying 1:05:29.440 --> 1:05:31.040 that it's a cool job for a living. 1:05:31.480 --> 1:05:37.040 Yeah, you're doing like Red Team stuff. It sounds like, yeah, yeah, exactly. 1:05:37.160 --> 1:05:40.520 So I've always been interested in technology and specifically like 1:05:41.320 --> 1:05:44.960 how do you make technology work in the benefit of 1:05:45.120 --> 1:05:48.880 people as opposed to working the benefit for profits or 1:05:49.000 --> 1:05:52.800 corporate interest or state interests. So I think technology is 1:05:52.800 --> 1:05:58.040 a really good tool when used correctly, and there's a 1:05:58.080 --> 1:06:01.240 lot of moral and social and political implications when it 1:06:01.320 --> 1:06:04.080 comes to technology and actually making it. But that's kind 1:06:04.080 --> 1:06:07.080 of how I got into it, was kind of combining 1:06:07.760 --> 1:06:13.040 my interest in computers and hacking combined with kind of 1:06:13.120 --> 1:06:16.600 the social and political activism I've been a part of. 1:06:16.840 --> 1:06:19.520 So that was kind of my entry point into it. 1:06:19.960 --> 1:06:22.720 Yeah, that makes that makes sense, because I do think, 1:06:23.200 --> 1:06:26.320 like when I think about what inspired me about the 1:06:26.440 --> 1:06:29.960 early Internet, about like file sharing back in the late nineties, 1:06:30.160 --> 1:06:33.360 about you know, when Wikipedia first started up and stuff 1:06:33.640 --> 1:06:35.520 all that stuff like that. We talk a lot about, 1:06:35.600 --> 1:06:38.480 like the days when we thought the Internet was going 1:06:38.600 --> 1:06:42.600 to be an unqualified boon for human liberty, the ability 1:06:42.640 --> 1:06:47.760 to create effectively, like a smaller and more limited private 1:06:47.840 --> 1:06:52.280 Internet for like you and your people to communicate safely 1:06:52.400 --> 1:06:57.040 through definitely like scratches that itch. And when we say 1:06:57.120 --> 1:06:59.880 like more limited Internet, you're not through one of these 1:07:00.080 --> 1:07:01.680 networks we're talking about. You're not going to be like 1:07:01.800 --> 1:07:04.840 sending YouTube videos and shit, right, But that's not what 1:07:04.960 --> 1:07:08.120 it's for, you know. That's it's it's it's got its 1:07:08.120 --> 1:07:10.480 own use, and it's very much kind of what the 1:07:10.600 --> 1:07:13.000 Internet was about at the beginning, which is just allowing 1:07:13.120 --> 1:07:17.440 people to connect that otherwise wouldn't be able to or 1:07:17.440 --> 1:07:19.000 wouldn't be able to as securely. 1:07:20.720 --> 1:07:26.680 Yeah, exactly. And actually the same protocol Loara, you actually 1:07:27.200 --> 1:07:30.640 kind of can run a basic Internet protocol that it's 1:07:30.680 --> 1:07:34.640 called Laura WAN Laura Wide Access Networking, and you can 1:07:34.720 --> 1:07:37.400 run some pretty basic programs on it outside of just 1:07:37.560 --> 1:07:41.000 text based stuff. So it's a really interesting kind of 1:07:41.080 --> 1:07:44.600 rabbit hole to go down into. I will say, if 1:07:44.680 --> 1:07:50.600 you start looking at Laura and mestastic stuff, you will 1:07:50.680 --> 1:07:54.440 eventually start to run into like a right leaning, yes, 1:07:54.520 --> 1:07:58.280 sometimes straight out fascist people because there's a crossover between 1:07:58.480 --> 1:08:02.720 you know, the the gun community and kind of off 1:08:02.800 --> 1:08:06.520 grid prepper doomsday prepper people, you know, so you'll run 1:08:06.560 --> 1:08:10.840 into that. Anyone who doesn't like like the government is 1:08:10.920 --> 1:08:13.400 going to have a vested interest in being able to 1:08:13.440 --> 1:08:16.760 communicate in a way that can't be easily intercepted, right 1:08:16.920 --> 1:08:20.920 like that, And that doesn't always mean your buddies. I 1:08:21.000 --> 1:08:26.280 think most people are pretty familiar with that exactly. Yea, 1:08:26.320 --> 1:08:32.120 but yeah, it's it's it's really useful. There there are 1:08:32.240 --> 1:08:35.280 other ways to, say, for instance, make your own kind 1:08:35.320 --> 1:08:39.840 of like micro internet. I read an article that talked 1:08:39.840 --> 1:08:43.000 about making kind of like a DIY Internet in quotes, 1:08:43.200 --> 1:08:49.960 where you can basically take your home router and connects, say, 1:08:50.000 --> 1:08:53.320 for instance, your neighbors to the same network, and then 1:08:53.479 --> 1:08:57.599 if you have a server of your own that has books, 1:08:57.720 --> 1:09:01.439 that has maps, that has music and information, you can 1:09:01.520 --> 1:09:03.960 easily share that with other people. And so there are 1:09:04.080 --> 1:09:07.120 other ways to kind of get your own off grid 1:09:07.920 --> 1:09:10.160 quote unquote internet together, but. 1:09:12.120 --> 1:09:15.360 Just outside of text. But yeah, it's definitely possible. 1:09:15.800 --> 1:09:20.080 It's just needs a little bit more technical know how, 1:09:20.479 --> 1:09:24.479 But hopefully soon it'll be a little simpler to where 1:09:24.560 --> 1:09:27.519 you can just download something, get you know, a book 1:09:27.600 --> 1:09:30.840 server up and running, and then have anybody come along 1:09:30.960 --> 1:09:34.080 and download books about you know, permaculture or about you know, 1:09:34.479 --> 1:09:38.320 emergency medical aid or fixing infrastructure and stuff like that. 1:09:38.560 --> 1:09:41.040 So yeah, that's huge being able to actually like transmit 1:09:41.680 --> 1:09:54.360 text and stuff through that too. So yeah, you said 1:09:54.439 --> 1:09:57.600 when we were chatting online kind of before we we 1:09:58.120 --> 1:10:00.280 hooked this up, you said something along the line of 1:10:00.439 --> 1:10:01.960 you had a bit of a tangent you wanted to 1:10:02.040 --> 1:10:05.000 go on. So I've asked kind of my questions here 1:10:05.600 --> 1:10:07.559 if there is anything else you wanted to get out 1:10:07.640 --> 1:10:09.799 or express or say, just kind of on the subject 1:10:09.960 --> 1:10:17.280 of people taking more autonomy for themselves in their communications technology. Well, 1:10:17.400 --> 1:10:18.040 now's the time. 1:10:20.439 --> 1:10:21.320 Yeah sounds good. 1:10:21.520 --> 1:10:22.200 I mean so. 1:10:23.880 --> 1:10:27.040 Earlier you asked, like, what kind of got me into this? Yeah, 1:10:27.880 --> 1:10:30.519 but there's another situation that happened because I live in Texas, 1:10:31.439 --> 1:10:32.799 Oh and a couple. 1:10:33.000 --> 1:10:35.599 Yeah, so you know where I'm going with this. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. 1:10:37.040 --> 1:10:38.719 A couple of years ago, there was a really bad 1:10:38.880 --> 1:10:41.800 winter storm and for most people listening, you might be 1:10:41.880 --> 1:10:43.559 in the Northeast, like, who cares. 1:10:43.800 --> 1:10:47.120 Yeah, I was there for that storm. Oh it was 1:10:47.240 --> 1:10:49.080 it was horrible. Was crazy. 1:10:49.439 --> 1:10:49.639 Yeah. 1:10:50.400 --> 1:10:54.160 And so for people outside of Texas, you might be saying, Okay, well, 1:10:54.160 --> 1:10:56.960 winter storm whatever, like, how could that affect anything? But 1:10:57.400 --> 1:11:01.840 Texas's power grid is privately owned. Yeah, it's completely separate 1:11:01.880 --> 1:11:02.800 from the RESCUUS. 1:11:03.520 --> 1:11:03.720 Yeah. 1:11:04.040 --> 1:11:07.120 Urka is a private company that runs the Texas power grid. 1:11:07.840 --> 1:11:11.240 And so we had a winter storm event happen, and 1:11:11.720 --> 1:11:15.680 our power systems are not in any way built for 1:11:16.120 --> 1:11:19.920 extreme cold, and so we had the situation where pretty 1:11:19.960 --> 1:11:25.000 much the entire state was out of power except for 1:11:25.560 --> 1:11:30.080 maybe a few areas in certain cities that had you know, 1:11:30.479 --> 1:11:33.439 a specific environment where they had backup generators and stuff 1:11:33.439 --> 1:11:37.720 like that. But millions of people lost power. And when 1:11:37.760 --> 1:11:40.240 people lose power, it isn't just oh I can't like 1:11:40.439 --> 1:11:44.759 watch TV or like do anything. There's lies that are lost, 1:11:44.920 --> 1:11:49.120 you know, directly from people who require ventilators to live 1:11:50.320 --> 1:11:54.280 to people who need electricity to run their medical devices. 1:11:55.280 --> 1:12:01.200 That impacted everything, right, So the power going out impacted transportation, 1:12:01.560 --> 1:12:07.000 impacted water, it impacted sanitation. So all these bits of 1:12:07.120 --> 1:12:11.439 infrastructure are all connected, and communications is kind of at 1:12:11.479 --> 1:12:16.760 the core of our modern day infrastructure, right, because in 1:12:17.040 --> 1:12:20.320 order to run a power plant, you need to have 1:12:20.520 --> 1:12:22.439 power but not only that, you need to be able 1:12:22.479 --> 1:12:26.400 to communicate with other places in order to properly run 1:12:26.479 --> 1:12:32.040 the water sanitation program. Same with transportation. I mean, if 1:12:32.120 --> 1:12:36.920 communication goes out, you literally can't deliver food, You literally 1:12:37.000 --> 1:12:40.040 can't deliver water to people and places that need it. 1:12:40.200 --> 1:12:43.920 And so it's not just an impact directly to communications, 1:12:44.040 --> 1:12:47.880 but an impact to your entire life. And so when 1:12:47.920 --> 1:12:51.880 we're talking about these pieces of infrastructure, we really have 1:12:52.040 --> 1:12:56.040 to think about the larger picture of how all this 1:12:56.240 --> 1:13:00.880 infrastructure's integrated in our lives, and how an impact to 1:13:01.000 --> 1:13:03.759 one part of it can impact your life in ways 1:13:03.760 --> 1:13:04.960 that you never even thought of. 1:13:05.520 --> 1:13:09.320 Yeah, yeah, and that's also I mean, I think I 1:13:09.360 --> 1:13:12.240 would imagine one of the benefits. I can say, just 1:13:12.320 --> 1:13:15.280 from sort of the fairly minimal degree to which I've 1:13:15.360 --> 1:13:19.160 done stuff like understand the basics of solar power and 1:13:19.280 --> 1:13:21.639 what I can do and can't do in my area 1:13:21.720 --> 1:13:24.360 with it, you know, even outside of the stuff that 1:13:24.520 --> 1:13:28.240 is green and renewable, understanding like how you can and 1:13:28.320 --> 1:13:31.639 cannot use generators in an emergency, and like which work. 1:13:32.040 --> 1:13:34.479 It's just given me more of an understanding of how 1:13:34.560 --> 1:13:36.840 the regular stuff that I use day to day works. 1:13:36.840 --> 1:13:38.720 A little bit better about what the real power draw 1:13:38.840 --> 1:13:42.519 of my life is, you know, and anytime you're kind 1:13:42.560 --> 1:13:47.400 of expanding your autonomy technologically, it also just increases the 1:13:47.439 --> 1:13:49.760 degree to which you understand what's going on every day, 1:13:49.880 --> 1:13:53.120 which I think is always of value, right, Like, even 1:13:53.160 --> 1:13:57.680 outside of whatever theoreticals we might prompt for like what 1:13:57.840 --> 1:14:00.360 could happen or what is likely to happen, because we're 1:14:00.400 --> 1:14:02.479 all going to deal with more disasters in our lives 1:14:02.520 --> 1:14:07.599 before they're over, hopefully more than one. The alternative is worse. 1:14:07.800 --> 1:14:12.400 But yeah, well that's kind of all I had to say. 1:14:12.560 --> 1:14:14.200 Did you have anything else you wanted to get into 1:14:14.320 --> 1:14:15.320 before we roll out? 1:14:16.080 --> 1:14:16.200 Uh? 1:14:16.439 --> 1:14:19.000 Yeah, I mean there are a bunch of use cases 1:14:19.240 --> 1:14:24.040 outside of like whether events or natural disasters to protests 1:14:24.120 --> 1:14:28.120 is one of them. A really big security concern when 1:14:28.160 --> 1:14:33.360 you're at a protest is bringing your cell phone. Not 1:14:33.439 --> 1:14:36.360 a lot of people know that your cell phone has 1:14:36.400 --> 1:14:43.080 a unique identifier number, and police governments states all have 1:14:43.240 --> 1:14:46.840 technology to basically like bring up a fake cell phone 1:14:46.920 --> 1:14:50.120 tower and have your device connect to it, so there 1:14:50.200 --> 1:14:52.560 are ways to track Say, for instance, you go to 1:14:52.600 --> 1:14:55.640 a protest, you have your phone on. Now your identifier 1:14:56.000 --> 1:14:59.840 is kind of tied to being at this protest, right, 1:15:00.200 --> 1:15:03.800 But with technology like this, it kind of circumvents that, 1:15:04.040 --> 1:15:06.880 especially when it comes to the ability for a threat 1:15:06.960 --> 1:15:10.559 actor to track you or know that you've been there. 1:15:11.160 --> 1:15:13.800 And it's encrypted, so even if say, for instance, a 1:15:13.840 --> 1:15:19.040 police department was able to intercept low raw, they wouldn't 1:15:19.040 --> 1:15:21.760 be able to read the messages period. And so that's 1:15:21.760 --> 1:15:25.280 another good thing. Same with you know, conflict zones. Yeah, 1:15:25.320 --> 1:15:28.880 you know, we're seeing now with the genocide that's happening 1:15:29.840 --> 1:15:34.080 in Palestine with the Palestinians, it's increasingly harder for people 1:15:34.120 --> 1:15:38.640 to communicate what areas are safe. It's hard to communicate 1:15:39.360 --> 1:15:41.760 you know, oh, we need to get out now, have 1:15:41.840 --> 1:15:45.519 an early warning system of there are literal tanks coming 1:15:45.600 --> 1:15:47.040 down the highway towards us. 1:15:47.200 --> 1:15:47.880 We need to leave. 1:15:48.600 --> 1:15:51.240 And so something like this can also be you know, 1:15:51.360 --> 1:15:54.639 really good in that situation because again the messages are encrypted, 1:15:55.160 --> 1:15:57.720 it can go pretty long range, especially if you have 1:15:58.000 --> 1:16:01.080 direct line of sight. We're talking like up to ten miles, 1:16:02.520 --> 1:16:05.000 and so being able to just send a text message 1:16:05.000 --> 1:16:08.080 to somebody can save someone's life in a situation like that. 1:16:08.320 --> 1:16:11.240 So there's a lot of different use cases outside of 1:16:11.880 --> 1:16:14.519 you know emergencies that this stuff can be used. But 1:16:14.680 --> 1:16:19.080 that's where building the autonomy kind of comes from. And 1:16:19.120 --> 1:16:23.160 if we're talking about like leftist political organizing and talking 1:16:23.160 --> 1:16:29.560 about building a better future, being autonomous from stay in 1:16:29.640 --> 1:16:34.519 corporate controlled infrastructure is really important, right because if say, 1:16:34.600 --> 1:16:39.080 for instance, hypothetically we had the Big R Revolution, right, 1:16:40.080 --> 1:16:41.720 the first thing that people in power are going to 1:16:41.800 --> 1:16:45.639 go after is power, water, sanitation, and communications. Right, They're 1:16:45.640 --> 1:16:48.519 going to go after the main infrastructure. And so if 1:16:48.560 --> 1:16:52.479 we want to have an autonomous and free future, we 1:16:52.640 --> 1:16:58.640 have to think about collectively owning the means of infrastructure, 1:16:58.800 --> 1:16:59.799 not just the means of production. 1:17:00.240 --> 1:17:05.080 Yeah. Well, and even outside you know, the Big R scenario, 1:17:05.240 --> 1:17:07.519 something that I think is probably at least certainly more 1:17:07.560 --> 1:17:12.920 immediate is continuing sort of downs in social order and 1:17:13.280 --> 1:17:20.240 areas expanding where non state actors, including the aforementioned Nazis 1:17:20.360 --> 1:17:22.960 that we had talked about, are able to get bolder, right, 1:17:23.000 --> 1:17:24.560 And like one thing we've seen right now, if you 1:17:24.600 --> 1:17:28.680 watch videos of cartel operations in parts of Mexico right now, 1:17:28.760 --> 1:17:31.240 one thing you will see on they're really good guys 1:17:31.400 --> 1:17:35.400 right on their special ops style teams is they will 1:17:35.439 --> 1:17:37.960 all have these weird looking things look kind of like 1:17:38.040 --> 1:17:40.760 a microphone attached to their plate carriers, and that's a 1:17:40.840 --> 1:17:43.000 cell jammer. It's the standard thing for them to carry 1:17:43.000 --> 1:17:46.360 into the field because it stops people from reporting in 1:17:46.479 --> 1:17:49.879 real time when they're carrying out an operation. And cartels 1:17:49.880 --> 1:17:51.960 are not the only people who do that, right, Like, 1:17:52.080 --> 1:17:54.560 it is a widely used tactic now, you see it 1:17:54.600 --> 1:17:57.920 all over in Ukraine. Right, it's in part not just 1:17:58.000 --> 1:17:59.960 because of like cell phones, but because of like shit 1:18:00.120 --> 1:18:04.040 like drones and stuff. It's it's just an increasingly common thing. 1:18:04.240 --> 1:18:07.080 And so when you're talking about what our threats that 1:18:07.200 --> 1:18:10.080 are realistic, well, it's not just the state that can 1:18:10.280 --> 1:18:13.920 interrupt your ability to communicate traditionally, right, it's also your 1:18:14.000 --> 1:18:17.360 non state opponents. And so for a variety of reasons, 1:18:17.840 --> 1:18:22.640 having backups, having alternates is just an incredibly important thing 1:18:22.760 --> 1:18:29.360 to be able to do to some extent, Yeah, definitely, Yeah, 1:18:30.120 --> 1:18:31.360 Well anything else. 1:18:33.760 --> 1:18:37.120 No, I mean, right now, I'm working on a kind 1:18:37.120 --> 1:18:39.040 of step by step article that kind of goes into 1:18:39.080 --> 1:18:43.240 more detail on what you need to do this, all 1:18:43.400 --> 1:18:46.720 the equipment you need, how to actually flash devices, how 1:18:46.760 --> 1:18:51.280 to start sending messages, and so once that's ready, I'll 1:18:51.320 --> 1:18:54.519 publish it. I publish you know, diy articles and stuff 1:18:54.600 --> 1:18:58.680 to my substack. It's an archosolar punk. Or you can 1:18:58.720 --> 1:19:02.240 go to Hydroponic track and I have a link there 1:19:02.280 --> 1:19:03.599 that goes to substack as well. 1:19:05.479 --> 1:19:10.400 Beautiful. Well, all right, Hydroponic Trash, thank you so much 1:19:10.640 --> 1:19:14.160 for everything. This has really been useful and enlightening. I'm 1:19:14.200 --> 1:19:16.680 going to go hop on to Ali Express in a 1:19:16.760 --> 1:19:20.920 second here and make a couple of purchases and I'm 1:19:20.920 --> 1:19:23.120 sure there's going to be a number of folks doing 1:19:23.200 --> 1:19:25.799 a version of that again. You can find our guests 1:19:26.200 --> 1:19:30.400 at Hydroponic Trash on Twitter where you can get in 1:19:30.520 --> 1:19:33.880 touch with them and keep an eye on what they're 1:19:33.880 --> 1:19:37.000 writing their substack. Very very excited to play around with 1:19:37.080 --> 1:19:40.040 this technology. Thank you so much for working to make 1:19:40.080 --> 1:19:40.759 it more visible. 1:19:41.920 --> 1:19:43.240 Yeah, of course, thanks for having me on. 1:19:43.640 --> 1:19:58.080 Yes, absolutely everyone. 1:19:58.240 --> 1:20:01.080 It's me James and I'm jo today by Erica, who 1:20:01.240 --> 1:20:04.320 is an attorney the director at Alotto Lada, which is 1:20:04.400 --> 1:20:08.320 a binational nonprofit that does legal humanitarian aid between San 1:20:08.320 --> 1:20:11.800 Diego and Tijuana, and we're here to discuss the open 1:20:11.840 --> 1:20:16.160 air detention sites and some things that Jim Desmond, one 1:20:16.200 --> 1:20:18.320 of our County supervisors has been saying about them. 1:20:18.400 --> 1:20:19.760 So welcome to the show, Erica. 1:20:20.600 --> 1:20:21.439 Thank you for having me. 1:20:21.920 --> 1:20:24.519 Yeah, of course, it's nice to have you here. Thanks 1:20:24.520 --> 1:20:27.040 for taking the time. So I want to start off 1:20:27.080 --> 1:20:30.240 by talking about Jim Desmond today, which is something I 1:20:30.400 --> 1:20:33.040 like to do if people aren't familiar with Jim Desmond. 1:20:33.439 --> 1:20:36.960 Jim Desmond is a supervisor in San Diego County. He's 1:20:36.960 --> 1:20:40.479 from District five, which is northern San Diego County. He's 1:20:40.560 --> 1:20:43.519 a Republican. He's the former mayor of San Marcos, which 1:20:43.520 --> 1:20:45.519 is a city in North County, and before that he 1:20:45.680 --> 1:20:48.479 was a pilot in the Navy. He's pretty much like 1:20:48.800 --> 1:20:51.760 a standard culture war boomer and a reminder to us 1:20:51.800 --> 1:20:53.519 all that there are people that live today who grew 1:20:53.600 --> 1:20:56.879 up when they put lead and children to toys. Notable 1:20:57.680 --> 1:21:01.960 Jim Desmond's dances include his starts on climate change, which 1:21:02.520 --> 1:21:04.439 I'm just going to read to you. Try and follow 1:21:04.520 --> 1:21:08.840 it if you can. It's a challenge. I think the 1:21:08.880 --> 1:21:11.280 climate has been changing since the beginning of time. The 1:21:11.360 --> 1:21:14.880 climate comes and the climate goes. The Great Lakes the 1:21:14.960 --> 1:21:18.480 Great Plains is a Yosemite valley all formed by glaciers. 1:21:19.280 --> 1:21:22.439 They've been gone a long long time, So you find 1:21:22.520 --> 1:21:25.479 seashells on mountaintops, you see where it used to be. 1:21:25.880 --> 1:21:28.479 You know, the land masses were Pangaea, and then the 1:21:28.560 --> 1:21:31.559 land matters all change and move around. So I say, 1:21:31.600 --> 1:21:33.519 we may be part of climate change, but I think 1:21:33.560 --> 1:21:36.160 the only reason we're here and we're still here today 1:21:36.400 --> 1:21:38.920 is because we as a species learn to adapt to 1:21:38.920 --> 1:21:43.160 different climates and climate changes. Now, maybe we're maybe exacerbating 1:21:43.240 --> 1:21:45.400 it a bit towards the end of the warming trend, 1:21:45.520 --> 1:21:46.240 but I don't know that. 1:21:48.160 --> 1:21:52.679 So it's just it's about as convoluted as his governing 1:21:53.280 --> 1:21:55.000 strategy here in San Diego County. 1:21:55.439 --> 1:21:59.120 Yeah, it's said a lot of words, but it really 1:21:59.360 --> 1:22:02.040 conveyed very little meaning. But yeah, this is kind of 1:22:03.479 --> 1:22:06.160 he seems to like speaking, but but maybe like he 1:22:06.200 --> 1:22:07.960 doesn't take quite as long as one would hope to 1:22:08.040 --> 1:22:10.560 plan out where he's going with its sentences before he 1:22:10.640 --> 1:22:13.559 delivers him. He also has a podcast, so I guess 1:22:14.200 --> 1:22:16.960 our podcasting rival, did you have you listened to his podcast? 1:22:17.040 --> 1:22:22.000 Dereka, No, I am, but it might be entertaining, so yeah, 1:22:22.040 --> 1:22:22.880 I'll take a look at it. 1:22:23.360 --> 1:22:23.799 Definitely. 1:22:24.320 --> 1:22:26.920 I know it'll you can learn some things about coronavirus 1:22:27.000 --> 1:22:32.519 for instance. God, yeah, it's good stuff. In May of 1:22:32.600 --> 1:22:36.439 twenty twenty, he claimed there had been six pure solely 1:22:36.560 --> 1:22:40.040 coronavirus deaths. The other two hundred or so that happened 1:22:40.040 --> 1:22:43.160 to guacted by them. We're not quote unquote pure coronavirus deaths. 1:22:43.200 --> 1:22:47.719 I guess by his estimation. So in this little escapade 1:22:47.760 --> 1:22:50.519 got him cited by Joe Rogan on the Joe Rogan Podcast, 1:22:51.120 --> 1:22:53.800 which must have been a great moment for Desmond. He 1:22:53.920 --> 1:22:56.559 hosted a ton of COVID skeptics on his podcast as well. 1:22:56.680 --> 1:23:01.879 Throughout the lockdowns he did after he caused some controversy 1:23:01.920 --> 1:23:05.360 on Twitter, which is a recurring theme, he hosted an 1:23:05.360 --> 1:23:08.080 actual immunologist on his show, and this was the only 1:23:08.120 --> 1:23:10.840 guest who he really kind of argued with, and in 1:23:11.000 --> 1:23:14.400 doing so, he said, I quote, the herd needs to 1:23:14.479 --> 1:23:17.080 get it, and he's talking about COVID here and we'll 1:23:17.120 --> 1:23:19.200 have a better handle on it. So to me, the 1:23:19.320 --> 1:23:21.720 number of cases means the herd's getting it, so that's 1:23:21.760 --> 1:23:25.760 a good thing. And then his guests corrected in pointing 1:23:25.760 --> 1:23:29.400 out that there needs to be like immunity for there 1:23:29.520 --> 1:23:32.160 to be heard immunity. And while he's just looking at 1:23:32.200 --> 1:23:38.560 it is contagion, not immunity, so he sort of He 1:23:38.720 --> 1:23:41.200 continued to make these claims throughout the pandemic, right that 1:23:42.080 --> 1:23:45.960 the lockdown was holding our jobs hostage, bad for the economy. 1:23:46.280 --> 1:23:48.679 He wasn't an anti maskt Interestingly, he said we should 1:23:48.720 --> 1:23:51.840 wear masks. That's what it took to open the businesses again. 1:23:52.360 --> 1:23:56.639 And he at least I mean, he's always been pretty 1:23:57.000 --> 1:23:59.799 terrible on boarder stuff, right, Erica. I'm sure you've encountered 1:23:59.800 --> 1:24:01.240 to his border stances before. 1:24:02.120 --> 1:24:05.160 I think all of the supervisors are terrible on border stuff. 1:24:05.240 --> 1:24:07.760 But at least he says the quiet part out loud. 1:24:08.880 --> 1:24:09.080 Yeah. 1:24:09.200 --> 1:24:10.439 We'll get more into that later. 1:24:10.920 --> 1:24:12.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to talk about how that. 1:24:12.880 --> 1:24:16.080 Yeah, that the the Democrats been terrible on the border 1:24:16.160 --> 1:24:18.400 is something that I think we can't say enough. In 1:24:18.520 --> 1:24:22.360 recent months, he held a press conference claiming the border 1:24:22.360 --> 1:24:25.600 should be shut down to prevent an influx It's not 1:24:25.640 --> 1:24:27.600 a quote, it's a peraphrase here, but to prevent an 1:24:27.680 --> 1:24:29.919 influx of har mass fighters, which. 1:24:30.760 --> 1:24:31.080 I don't know. 1:24:31.280 --> 1:24:33.760 It shows a misunderstanding of a lot of things, like 1:24:34.720 --> 1:24:38.280 like how her mass works, and also how the border works, 1:24:38.560 --> 1:24:42.800 like the idea that a one could leave Gaza at 1:24:42.800 --> 1:24:46.080 this time and be that one could just fly into 1:24:46.200 --> 1:24:50.880 Mexico like where of course, like they wouldn't immediately notice 1:24:50.880 --> 1:24:53.479 that you had come like armed and equipped to attack 1:24:53.560 --> 1:24:54.280 the US border. 1:24:54.960 --> 1:24:57.600 But I think just with the COVID stuff and with 1:24:57.720 --> 1:25:01.640 the border stuff, he is just throwing red meat to 1:25:01.720 --> 1:25:06.400 his base. But it's not necessarily aligned with what he does, 1:25:06.920 --> 1:25:09.439 and I would assume it's not aligned with what he 1:25:09.600 --> 1:25:13.519 actually knows. Like we're the COVID stuff. He did set 1:25:13.600 --> 1:25:18.439 up vaccination clinics in his district, and so he's clearly 1:25:18.720 --> 1:25:21.960 not a complete skeptic, at least that's not what his 1:25:22.080 --> 1:25:24.920 actions showed. And I think for some of your listeners 1:25:24.960 --> 1:25:26.600 who are not in the United States or maybe not 1:25:26.720 --> 1:25:29.679 in California, we are on the border in San Diego. 1:25:30.120 --> 1:25:34.120 You can get to Mexico within you know, if you're 1:25:34.160 --> 1:25:37.800 in Jim Desmon's district, within half an hour you're in Tijuana. 1:25:38.200 --> 1:25:40.479 And I assume he's been here for many years, and 1:25:40.640 --> 1:25:44.200 so he has to know more about the border than 1:25:44.240 --> 1:25:49.200 he's letting on. It's just really like he's regurgitating the 1:25:49.439 --> 1:25:54.160 right wing narrative to garner political points. I think in 1:25:54.240 --> 1:25:57.439 a county where he's the last standing Republican on the 1:25:57.479 --> 1:26:01.720 board of supervisors, So I think that's important to remember too. 1:26:02.640 --> 1:26:04.840 Definitely, it definitely seems like this is kind of and 1:26:04.920 --> 1:26:06.920 you see he does a lot of appearance on writing 1:26:07.000 --> 1:26:10.760 news channels, right, Like he's often on Fox. But then 1:26:10.920 --> 1:26:14.080 our local kind of crazy writ wing news channel is KUSI, 1:26:14.800 --> 1:26:17.200 who have really doubled down on the culture war stuff 1:26:17.720 --> 1:26:21.559 since like twenty twenty, and you'll see him on there 1:26:21.560 --> 1:26:23.280 a lot and talking about the border a lot. Right. 1:26:23.320 --> 1:26:26.400 It seems to, as you say, like either be like 1:26:26.439 --> 1:26:29.000 an attempt for reelection or perhaps for higher office. I 1:26:29.040 --> 1:26:31.840 don't know, but he he'll make a lot of claims 1:26:31.840 --> 1:26:33.880 about the border which are just patently untrue, which is 1:26:34.640 --> 1:26:35.640 what I want to talk about now. 1:26:36.080 --> 1:26:39.360 So he spent his New Year's. 1:26:39.240 --> 1:26:43.280 Day in Cucumber making little videos for Twitter and Instagram. 1:26:44.360 --> 1:26:45.880 I was there only year days too. I didn't atually 1:26:45.920 --> 1:26:49.040 see him, which is a shame. But that day they 1:26:49.080 --> 1:26:51.040 weren't many people at all who are in the open 1:26:51.080 --> 1:26:55.960 air attention sites, so he sort of made videos in 1:26:56.000 --> 1:26:56.800 front of empty tents. 1:26:56.840 --> 1:26:57.479 It was a bit weird. 1:26:58.080 --> 1:27:00.920 In his first one, he wrote, today I visited the 1:27:00.960 --> 1:27:04.360 border and migrant encampments in Ucumber. The chaos continues with 1:27:04.439 --> 1:27:06.920 dozens of people camping out waiting for border patrol to 1:27:06.960 --> 1:27:09.880 take them to resource center paid for by county taxpayers. 1:27:10.120 --> 1:27:14.200 And he's not like you could. I'm sure Erica, you 1:27:14.240 --> 1:27:16.120 can explain this as well. He's not wrong that they 1:27:16.600 --> 1:27:19.519 may eventually end up at the quote unquote welcome center, 1:27:19.600 --> 1:27:24.040 which is paid for by county funds, which came from 1:27:24.080 --> 1:27:26.439 the American Rescue Act, which is of course federal money. 1:27:27.000 --> 1:27:29.080 But it's a little more complicated than that, isn't it. 1:27:30.240 --> 1:27:34.360 Yeah, So the migrants are being held in what are 1:27:34.479 --> 1:27:39.479 essentially open air prisons by border patrol. We the collective 1:27:39.640 --> 1:27:43.599 of nonprofits, mutual aid groups and volunteers are the only 1:27:43.680 --> 1:27:50.120 ones who've been paying for water, food, medical assistance, shelter, 1:27:50.840 --> 1:27:53.160 et cetera for people who are being held in these 1:27:53.320 --> 1:27:56.960 open air prisons, sometimes for days at a time, including 1:27:57.000 --> 1:28:01.639 the medically infirm and children. And so I think that's 1:28:01.840 --> 1:28:05.040 one piece of it to understand, because he did say 1:28:05.640 --> 1:28:08.320 in his when he was speaking in front of the 1:28:08.360 --> 1:28:11.519 empty tent, that the county tax payers were paying for 1:28:11.680 --> 1:28:15.920 those things, which is patently untrue. But then just again, 1:28:16.160 --> 1:28:20.080 understanding the process is something that he has to understand. 1:28:20.240 --> 1:28:22.760 He's been here for decades. He has to know that 1:28:22.920 --> 1:28:27.520 these people are being taken into border patrol custody process 1:28:27.960 --> 1:28:32.000 and then either released to the county funded welcome center 1:28:32.479 --> 1:28:36.640 or they are detained by immigration And so it's the 1:28:36.720 --> 1:28:39.080 same legal process we've had for decades at the border, 1:28:39.160 --> 1:28:42.200 where people have a right to seek asylum, whether they 1:28:42.360 --> 1:28:45.280 enter at a port of entry or not. And the 1:28:45.720 --> 1:28:48.680 real controversy here is the fact that border patrol is 1:28:49.240 --> 1:28:52.680 holding people outdoors for days at a time without the 1:28:52.760 --> 1:28:53.840 things that they need to survive. 1:28:55.120 --> 1:28:57.000 Yeah, I want to get back to that claid that 1:28:57.040 --> 1:28:59.040 he made right that the county paid for it. We 1:28:59.200 --> 1:29:02.280 got some video of him making that claim, so we'll 1:29:02.320 --> 1:29:03.559 just play it here. 1:29:04.160 --> 1:29:09.080 As we look inside this abandoned tents, there's a sandwich 1:29:09.520 --> 1:29:16.160 left in a baggy, there's water with bananas, ponchos, crackers, snacks, waters, 1:29:16.360 --> 1:29:17.679 and this tent is empty. 1:29:18.800 --> 1:29:21.040 Maybe that's just the same way. 1:29:21.160 --> 1:29:22.840 There's no one here yet. 1:29:22.920 --> 1:29:24.080 Probably in the next day or. 1:29:24.120 --> 1:29:27.960 So, there'll be more migrants coming inhabiting Nessa and then 1:29:28.000 --> 1:29:30.519 being process for San Diego County, being paid for with 1:29:30.600 --> 1:29:31.440 San Diego. 1:29:31.200 --> 1:29:36.280 Tax So in the caption that accompanied this video, he wrote, quote, 1:29:36.360 --> 1:29:39.519 during my recent boarder visit, I encountered an abandoned campsite 1:29:39.560 --> 1:29:42.960 filled with tents, food, drinks, and campfires, paid for by 1:29:43.240 --> 1:29:46.120 San Diego County taxpayers. This site is used as a 1:29:46.160 --> 1:29:49.519 temporary holding site before migrants and then processed into our country. 1:29:50.200 --> 1:29:52.400 And this like gets to the thing I think that 1:29:52.600 --> 1:29:54.760 lewis where he like bullshitted too close to the sun, 1:29:54.920 --> 1:29:57.960 because none of that, as you said, was paid for 1:29:58.120 --> 1:30:01.000 by taxpayers, right, all of that was paid for by 1:30:02.400 --> 1:30:05.360 yeah people like nonprofit to each aid people. 1:30:05.840 --> 1:30:08.680 And can you give a sense of the amount. 1:30:08.680 --> 1:30:12.120 Of spending that Alotrolado has had to take on to 1:30:13.120 --> 1:30:17.040 make these open air prisidents like survivable for people, and 1:30:17.439 --> 1:30:19.960 even still they're deeply unpleasant even with all the work. 1:30:21.160 --> 1:30:21.360 Yeah. 1:30:22.320 --> 1:30:26.360 So we have acted as a fiscal sponsor for a 1:30:26.400 --> 1:30:29.960 lot of the smaller groups because we are able to 1:30:30.200 --> 1:30:32.599 receive foundation funding as a five H one C three 1:30:33.280 --> 1:30:37.080 and so we've used that legal status to support a 1:30:37.160 --> 1:30:39.479 lot of the mutual aid groups that have been spending 1:30:39.800 --> 1:30:42.880 tens of thousands of dollars. But I've gone through the 1:30:42.920 --> 1:30:46.840 budgets and we've spent an average of about one hundred 1:30:46.840 --> 1:30:50.360 and fifty thousand dollars per month, which is a lot 1:30:50.479 --> 1:30:53.680 for us. But when you look at the Department of 1:30:53.760 --> 1:30:58.120 Homeland Security, which should be spending this money, they have 1:30:58.240 --> 1:31:03.360 one hundred and seventy billion dollar budget for twenty twenty three. 1:31:03.479 --> 1:31:05.360 I think it's even higher for a fiscal year twenty 1:31:05.439 --> 1:31:08.640 twenty four, So it's really you know, probably what they 1:31:08.720 --> 1:31:12.640 spend on one of those autonomous surveillance towers that are 1:31:12.640 --> 1:31:15.120 sitting in the camps in like a day, right, So 1:31:15.280 --> 1:31:17.679 it's really nothing for them. You know, it's very clear 1:31:17.800 --> 1:31:22.559 that they're making a choice to leave these really vulnerable 1:31:22.680 --> 1:31:26.120 migrants to potentially die in the desert. And then when 1:31:26.200 --> 1:31:29.640 we look at the county funding, you know, they've allocated 1:31:30.040 --> 1:31:33.519 now six million dollars to this welcome center, which you know, 1:31:33.600 --> 1:31:37.520 we'll talk about in more detail, but it's really providing 1:31:37.680 --> 1:31:41.200 woefully inadequate services to the same population that's going through 1:31:41.280 --> 1:31:44.040 these open air detention sites after they've been released from 1:31:44.680 --> 1:31:47.840 Border Patrol custody. So again it's like it's a lot 1:31:47.880 --> 1:31:49.639 of money for us, it's not a lot of money 1:31:49.680 --> 1:31:52.519 for the county. I would love it if the county 1:31:52.600 --> 1:31:55.520 would pay for it, if they've stated on multiple occasions 1:31:55.520 --> 1:32:00.640 if they will not. It's been pure philanthropic funding and donations. 1:32:01.080 --> 1:32:04.200 But yeah, I mean we've been able to do a 1:32:04.240 --> 1:32:06.320 lot with very little, and it really was the bare 1:32:06.400 --> 1:32:10.880 minimum to keep people alive. So yeah, if we had 1:32:11.000 --> 1:32:13.439 an actual junion of county funding, I'm sure we could 1:32:13.479 --> 1:32:14.160 have done a lot more. 1:32:14.720 --> 1:32:18.080 Yeah, and like even we don't have access to the 1:32:18.240 --> 1:32:20.760 things that government has access to, right Like, normally in 1:32:20.760 --> 1:32:25.880 a refugee situation, we'd have UNHCR tents, we'd have humanitarian 1:32:26.040 --> 1:32:29.200 MRIs like we had to buy those. On this we 1:32:29.240 --> 1:32:31.760 couldn't get the tents and we end the MRIs. We 1:32:31.880 --> 1:32:35.960 had to find on the surplus market, right like, we can't. 1:32:36.600 --> 1:32:39.160 The state could do more for less, but they're very 1:32:39.240 --> 1:32:42.400 much choosing not to, as you said, So what the 1:32:42.520 --> 1:32:44.840 result of this was rather amusing a number of people 1:32:44.840 --> 1:32:47.519 from mutual A groups, including friends of ours from free 1:32:47.560 --> 1:32:52.240 Ship Collective, took to Desmond to office with literal receipts 1:32:52.360 --> 1:32:57.679 right like receipts. Yes, yeah, it was a tremendous moment. 1:32:58.240 --> 1:33:00.599 And we don't mean receipts like in the figure difference. 1:33:00.840 --> 1:33:02.839 We need like pieces of paper from Costco. 1:33:03.439 --> 1:33:04.200 Yeah, oh yeah no. 1:33:04.560 --> 1:33:08.040 And the fact is, you know, within a number of hours, 1:33:09.080 --> 1:33:12.920 the folks from Free Shit Collective and others were able 1:33:13.240 --> 1:33:16.519 to just pull together over sixteen thousand dollars in receipts. 1:33:17.280 --> 1:33:20.400 And that's, like I mentioned, a small fraction of what 1:33:20.479 --> 1:33:23.080 we've actually been spending. That's probably just their receipts from 1:33:23.120 --> 1:33:26.519 the week. And so again for us, it's like that's 1:33:26.880 --> 1:33:30.040 an enormous lift. I know, we're all exhausted, those of 1:33:30.120 --> 1:33:32.080 us who have been working in the open air detention sites. 1:33:32.120 --> 1:33:35.559 It's exhausting to be there all the time. It's exhausting 1:33:35.640 --> 1:33:38.000 to try to raise enough money to keep thousands and 1:33:38.080 --> 1:33:41.879 thousands of people alive when they're forced into a deadly situation. 1:33:42.120 --> 1:33:45.479 And so it's I think we were all pretty pissed 1:33:45.479 --> 1:33:48.479 off when we heard him taking credit for that, even 1:33:48.520 --> 1:33:51.080 if he was trying to denigrate, you know, the idea 1:33:51.120 --> 1:33:52.600 of spending money on refugees. 1:33:53.479 --> 1:33:56.240 Yeah, right, Like it's funny because he'll also say, like 1:33:56.320 --> 1:34:00.519 it's inhumane, it's unacceptable, But like if you're not going 1:34:00.600 --> 1:34:03.080 to do anything to stop the humanity, the inhumanity, like 1:34:03.160 --> 1:34:05.960 I don't really find that a very believable claim, Like 1:34:06.200 --> 1:34:10.120 he was literally standing Willows, so like less than a 1:34:10.200 --> 1:34:13.360 mile from where we spend that day making sandwiches and 1:34:13.479 --> 1:34:17.040 cooking beans and doing the things we do every day 1:34:17.120 --> 1:34:20.240 sorting out coats, you know, And he could have come helped, 1:34:20.400 --> 1:34:23.160 or even just come and said, what you guys are 1:34:23.200 --> 1:34:26.560 doing is great, but he chose not to. He just 1:34:26.600 --> 1:34:29.519 stood in front of his whoever was filming him alied. 1:34:29.800 --> 1:34:32.280 His proposed solution is to close the border, which he 1:34:32.439 --> 1:34:36.760 knows is not an option because the Refugee Convention is 1:34:36.800 --> 1:34:39.400 still a thing. The US is still a signatory. You know, 1:34:39.520 --> 1:34:43.599 we have legal obligations under both domestic and international law 1:34:43.720 --> 1:34:46.840 to accept asylum seekers in our country. And so you know, 1:34:47.520 --> 1:34:51.400 his solution to the inhumanity is to push people back 1:34:51.479 --> 1:34:54.200 over the Mexican border, where you know they're subject to 1:34:54.280 --> 1:34:58.519 all manner of state and criminal violence. So I don't 1:34:58.560 --> 1:35:03.400 think the inhumanity is really his priority to address. It's 1:35:03.479 --> 1:35:06.160 really again just like throwing red meat to the base 1:35:06.400 --> 1:35:10.479 to you know, this open border's hysteria that they all 1:35:10.600 --> 1:35:11.200 love to cite. 1:35:11.840 --> 1:35:15.920 Yeah, talking of hysteria, we should take a little break 1:35:16.000 --> 1:35:20.120 for some adverts for things that might try to get 1:35:20.160 --> 1:35:21.960 you to buy them by making your freight, and you shouldn't. 1:35:32.640 --> 1:35:35.320 We are back, and yeah, I want to talk a 1:35:35.360 --> 1:35:37.760 little more about that. Like, is this idea of a 1:35:37.840 --> 1:35:40.880 closed boarder you see a lot mostly from Republicans right, Like, 1:35:41.320 --> 1:35:43.760 it's like you say, it's not only legally impossible, but 1:35:43.760 --> 1:35:45.600 it's also like physically impossible. 1:35:45.880 --> 1:35:46.559 And we. 1:35:48.080 --> 1:35:50.639 People enter the US through gaps in the border war 1:35:50.840 --> 1:35:53.280 when people enter the US through gaps in the border wall, 1:35:53.280 --> 1:35:55.400 I should add, because we've made it virtually impossible for 1:35:55.520 --> 1:35:59.439 them to get asylum appointments in a reasonable timeframe and 1:35:59.560 --> 1:36:01.240 to be in a place that's safe while they make 1:36:01.320 --> 1:36:04.760 those appointments. And so like the idea that we could 1:36:05.400 --> 1:36:08.439 how do we close you know, like the physical border? 1:36:10.080 --> 1:36:14.360 Well just yeah, I mean I just want to take 1:36:14.479 --> 1:36:18.439 a step back for one second, because this sort of 1:36:18.880 --> 1:36:22.000 Biden's open borders hysteria that we've heard so much from 1:36:22.040 --> 1:36:25.519 the right wing, I think it's worth unpacking what this 1:36:25.760 --> 1:36:29.240 means because I've seen, you know, people in the Democratic 1:36:29.320 --> 1:36:33.000 Party or even people on the left really shy away 1:36:33.040 --> 1:36:35.360 from this idea of open borders. And when those of 1:36:35.479 --> 1:36:38.599 us who have first world passports already have a world 1:36:38.640 --> 1:36:40.479 of open borders. I mean, we can pretty much go 1:36:40.520 --> 1:36:44.280 wherever we want, you know, we gentrify O their countries 1:36:44.360 --> 1:36:48.000 to their detriment, Like it's not there really are not 1:36:48.160 --> 1:36:53.080 many restrictions on first world citizens moving around the world. 1:36:53.160 --> 1:36:57.320 So I think that's one important thing to consider as 1:36:57.400 --> 1:36:59.920 we're kind of launching into this discussion. It's like open 1:37:00.040 --> 1:37:02.280 borders are okay for me, but not for brown people. 1:37:02.400 --> 1:37:05.720 Like yeah, so little, you know, And that's kind of 1:37:05.800 --> 1:37:09.599 the underlying impetus behind a lot of what we're going 1:37:09.640 --> 1:37:13.280 to talk about in San Diego County. It's like people 1:37:13.720 --> 1:37:16.040 this underlying idea that people should not have the right 1:37:16.120 --> 1:37:18.920 to come here, which is just ludicrous. So I think 1:37:19.000 --> 1:37:22.960 that's one thing. But when we're talking about asylum in particular, 1:37:23.600 --> 1:37:27.639 you know, like I mentioned earlier, we are signatories Refugee 1:37:27.680 --> 1:37:32.439 Convention and the subsequent nineteen sixty seven Protocol. This has 1:37:32.520 --> 1:37:36.120 been enshrined in domestic law in the nineteen eighty Refugee Act, 1:37:36.720 --> 1:37:40.360 and so refugees who are people outside of their country 1:37:40.400 --> 1:37:43.960 of origin fleeing persecution have the right to ask for 1:37:44.200 --> 1:37:47.519 protection at the US Mexico border, whether it's at a 1:37:47.560 --> 1:37:50.679 port of entry or between ports of entry. So those 1:37:50.760 --> 1:37:53.519 in Hakumba and these other open air detention sites are 1:37:53.560 --> 1:37:56.840 those crossing between ports of entry because it's been made 1:37:56.920 --> 1:38:00.320 impossible to approach the port of entry and seek US island. 1:38:00.360 --> 1:38:03.439 And this is something that our organization has been litigating 1:38:03.600 --> 1:38:06.320 for years. You know, at first people were just being 1:38:06.640 --> 1:38:09.479 turned away. Then there was a waiting list in Mexico, 1:38:09.560 --> 1:38:11.920 and now they have this stupid app that's just like 1:38:12.560 --> 1:38:15.160 glitches and there's no enough appointments and people have to 1:38:15.240 --> 1:38:18.639 wait for months in Mexico just to get an appointment 1:38:18.640 --> 1:38:20.720 if they're one of the lucky ones who can. The 1:38:20.840 --> 1:38:24.519 app's also been hacked by organized crime. You know, certain 1:38:24.640 --> 1:38:27.760 nationalities are able to pay for appointments. It's just it's 1:38:27.800 --> 1:38:30.479 a complete mess. It has nothing to do with this ideal. 1:38:31.240 --> 1:38:35.040 You know that the Refugee conventionment is supposed to enshrine. 1:38:34.760 --> 1:38:34.840 So. 1:38:36.600 --> 1:38:38.920 Regardless of you know, all of the illegal things the 1:38:39.040 --> 1:38:42.840 US government is doing, like you cannot close a border 1:38:43.840 --> 1:38:47.160 to assylum seekers without withdrawing from the Refugee Convention. And 1:38:47.240 --> 1:38:50.200 I just really don't see that happening for our country, 1:38:50.439 --> 1:38:53.000 just because we like to, you know, talk about how 1:38:53.040 --> 1:38:55.840 we're abastioned for human rights et cetera, which you know, 1:38:56.000 --> 1:38:58.840 that's a whole other podcast I think about. 1:39:00.200 --> 1:39:02.920 Yeah, break that down a little bit. But I think 1:39:03.160 --> 1:39:05.040 one thing that you said that I want to talk 1:39:05.040 --> 1:39:08.439 about is that you said that open borders or like 1:39:08.800 --> 1:39:11.040 free travel for brown people is something that a lot 1:39:11.120 --> 1:39:14.559 of more privileged folks, especially in San Diego or even 1:39:14.600 --> 1:39:16.439 in San Diego, should say, are uncomfortable with. 1:39:17.040 --> 1:39:18.640 I think we really saw, like. 1:39:20.439 --> 1:39:23.600 It's not just skin color, but it's really hard for 1:39:23.760 --> 1:39:26.840 me to see skin color not playing a large role 1:39:27.000 --> 1:39:31.799 when I see people from Africa, people from South America 1:39:32.320 --> 1:39:34.800 waiting for months, if not years, and then people from 1:39:34.960 --> 1:39:38.679 Ukraine coming when the largest scale conflict in Ukraine began 1:39:39.200 --> 1:39:41.519 and effectively skipping the line. Right. 1:39:42.400 --> 1:39:46.280 Yeah, So when the Ukrainians all came through Tijuana, I 1:39:46.360 --> 1:39:49.400 think there were maybe twenty thousand or so who came 1:39:49.479 --> 1:39:52.719 through in a period of a month. That was during 1:39:52.840 --> 1:39:57.240 Title forty two, which was a Trump ara policy that 1:39:57.520 --> 1:40:03.120 closed the border to asylum seekers based on public health reasons, 1:40:03.240 --> 1:40:05.120 but really it was because they wanted to close the 1:40:05.160 --> 1:40:09.679 border to asylum seekers, and so there were very few 1:40:10.760 --> 1:40:14.040 humanitarian exemptions granted to Title forty two at that time. 1:40:14.479 --> 1:40:17.639 But at the time the Ukrainians came, that exemption process 1:40:17.760 --> 1:40:20.240 had actually been shut down for quite a while. So 1:40:20.680 --> 1:40:25.040 I was watching people die in Tijuana because they didn't 1:40:25.080 --> 1:40:29.040 have access to the US asylum system. I remember when 1:40:29.080 --> 1:40:31.559 the Ukrainians came, there was a child who caught an 1:40:31.560 --> 1:40:33.439 ammonia in one of the shelters. It was like a 1:40:33.680 --> 1:40:37.120 month's old baby who died. And then when the Ukrainians came, 1:40:37.800 --> 1:40:41.400 you know, the doors were flung open for them. CBP, 1:40:41.680 --> 1:40:43.880 which up until that point said they did not have 1:40:44.000 --> 1:40:48.240 capacity to process asylum seekers. They were processing Ukrainians at 1:40:48.280 --> 1:40:50.680 a clip of one thousand a day, and it was 1:40:50.760 --> 1:40:54.960 heartbreaking to see. And you know, after they shut off 1:40:55.040 --> 1:40:58.800 the spicket for the Ukrainians, after they stopped letting them 1:40:58.800 --> 1:41:01.879 in at the border, CBP said they only had capacity 1:41:02.000 --> 1:41:06.400 to process a few dozen non white asylum seekers, and 1:41:06.520 --> 1:41:08.519 so all of a sudden, their capacity was just gone. 1:41:08.640 --> 1:41:11.440 It was, you know, it just it was so transparent 1:41:11.520 --> 1:41:13.960 and so blatant and so hurtful for people who've been 1:41:14.000 --> 1:41:17.120 suffering at that point for years with the silent system 1:41:17.160 --> 1:41:17.920 closed off to them. 1:41:18.760 --> 1:41:18.960 Yeah. 1:41:20.040 --> 1:41:22.840 Yeah, it was really hard to see that and to 1:41:23.000 --> 1:41:26.800 know the people, the people who I guess effectively they 1:41:27.160 --> 1:41:28.880 lost their place in line, right, a lot of people 1:41:28.960 --> 1:41:32.439 cut in front of them, And to a large degree, 1:41:32.600 --> 1:41:36.000 it's still much easier. Right, we're under title eight again 1:41:36.040 --> 1:41:39.320 now not Title forty two. But it's still much easier 1:41:39.360 --> 1:41:42.920 for wealthy white people to get appointments using CBP one 1:41:43.160 --> 1:41:46.040 than it is for poor and non white people, right. 1:41:46.840 --> 1:41:50.800 Yeah, because especially when the app was first launched, there's 1:41:51.120 --> 1:41:55.479 a point in the appointment process during which you have 1:41:55.640 --> 1:41:58.360 to take a photo of yourself and it mass your 1:41:58.439 --> 1:42:01.880 face for facial recognition purposes, and it wasn't working on 1:42:02.479 --> 1:42:05.640 really dark skinned people. You know, a few of the 1:42:05.720 --> 1:42:09.320 organizations working in Mexico had to buy the construction style 1:42:09.439 --> 1:42:12.439 lights to shine on people's faces so that it would 1:42:13.160 --> 1:42:15.800 photo to pick them up. But just even like you 1:42:15.920 --> 1:42:18.880 have to have a new phone, I think they probably 1:42:19.000 --> 1:42:21.439 made the app to work on an iPhone, which most 1:42:21.479 --> 1:42:23.280 people outside the United States don't have. 1:42:23.880 --> 1:42:27.000 Yeah. Yeah, it's like I've got a tip on that 1:42:27.200 --> 1:42:29.320 I've not been able to confirm it, but someone at 1:42:29.360 --> 1:42:31.800 the Ice Store told the Ice Store the Apple Store 1:42:32.040 --> 1:42:35.400 told me that it wasn't working on certain Samsung and 1:42:35.960 --> 1:42:38.640 Huawei phones and that they were having people come in 1:42:38.720 --> 1:42:41.439 and buy like the cheapest iPhone they could in bulk 1:42:41.560 --> 1:42:42.400 to try and access it. 1:42:43.080 --> 1:42:45.839 Well, we keep iPhones in our office in Tikwana exactly 1:42:45.920 --> 1:42:48.720 for that reason, because you know, people need to be 1:42:48.800 --> 1:42:53.160 able to access the app. But now the well, the 1:42:53.240 --> 1:42:56.640 app has been hacked for a while. So there's some 1:42:56.880 --> 1:43:00.799 groups that work mostly I would say with Russian asylum seekers. 1:43:01.040 --> 1:43:04.760 They're charging I think around between five hundred and one 1:43:04.760 --> 1:43:08.599 thousand for an appointment, maybe more sometimes I'm not sure 1:43:08.640 --> 1:43:11.200 exactly how they're doing it. I know also there's been 1:43:11.320 --> 1:43:15.679 some hacking of the geolocation features, so these criminal groups 1:43:15.680 --> 1:43:17.920 are selling appointments to people who haven't even left their 1:43:17.920 --> 1:43:21.200 home country. And meanwhile, you know, the shelters on the 1:43:21.240 --> 1:43:25.120 border are full of people with crappy phones and a 1:43:25.160 --> 1:43:28.120 week internet connection who wait for months and months and months, 1:43:28.880 --> 1:43:32.040 while the richer people who are paying for nice phones 1:43:32.080 --> 1:43:34.599 and appointments are able to get through much more quickly. 1:43:35.320 --> 1:43:39.080 Yeah, it's made of a fucked up system. Even more 1:43:39.120 --> 1:43:42.840 fucked up they designed it in house as well, which 1:43:42.960 --> 1:43:46.800 you know they are paid to have over estimated their 1:43:46.840 --> 1:43:49.800 abilities there. One day, I'll get my foyers back about 1:43:49.840 --> 1:43:52.360 cepp one and it will probably be some point in 1:43:52.400 --> 1:43:55.320 the middle of the next presidential administration, which will make 1:43:55.400 --> 1:43:57.679 them fey relevant and really freaking annoying. 1:43:57.760 --> 1:44:01.360 But well, we're suing about it, so it'll probably be 1:44:01.439 --> 1:44:03.120 a few years before we get to discovery. 1:44:03.240 --> 1:44:05.599 But yeah, we'll have a race. 1:44:07.120 --> 1:44:09.280 Yeah, but you are assuming that they want the system 1:44:09.360 --> 1:44:10.280 to work, which they don't. 1:44:10.360 --> 1:44:11.679 Yes, yeah, yeah, that's fair. 1:44:12.439 --> 1:44:15.360 So in that sense, it's working perfectly. 1:44:15.680 --> 1:44:18.519 Right, Yeah, And it's doing in a sense what like 1:44:18.880 --> 1:44:22.080 the unofficial and of tone of immigration policy has always been, 1:44:23.120 --> 1:44:25.439 which is that like, it's fine for wealthy white people 1:44:25.479 --> 1:44:27.439 to come here, but we want to limit the number 1:44:27.479 --> 1:44:29.519 of non white and non wealthy people who come here. 1:44:29.880 --> 1:44:32.400 And like they can say out loud, like and maybe 1:44:32.400 --> 1:44:35.639 we should talk about this now. The difference between Trump 1:44:35.640 --> 1:44:39.200 and Biden is Trump just said it and Biden didn't. 1:44:39.320 --> 1:44:42.519 And when Trump said it, like wealth well meaning liberals 1:44:42.560 --> 1:44:45.400 in the Midwest gave a shit and sent money. Like 1:44:45.479 --> 1:44:48.760 in twenty eighteen, things were very bad in Tijuana, right 1:44:48.840 --> 1:44:54.040 with the people staying in the Elberatal, but like at 1:44:54.120 --> 1:44:56.640 least people in America cared and sent money so we 1:44:56.680 --> 1:45:01.280 could help. Whereas now, like you know, major outlets who 1:45:01.320 --> 1:45:04.639 have given ten front page stories to accusations of one 1:45:04.720 --> 1:45:07.479 woman plagiarizing and a dissertation that she wrote years ago, 1:45:07.680 --> 1:45:10.799 haven't written a single piece about the open air concentration 1:45:10.920 --> 1:45:13.320 camps that our government has in the Cumber in other places. 1:45:14.320 --> 1:45:18.200 Well, not just that, I mean the media by and 1:45:18.320 --> 1:45:21.599 large has allowed this right wing narrative of open borders 1:45:21.640 --> 1:45:26.520 to take over, even though the policies are largely identical 1:45:27.760 --> 1:45:31.360 to the Trump administration. Right so they're even talking about 1:45:31.439 --> 1:45:35.000 now bringing back a Title forty two type restriction that 1:45:35.040 --> 1:45:37.839 would turn away asylum seekers and send them back to Mexico. 1:45:38.040 --> 1:45:41.360 We have the asylum ban, which is very similar to 1:45:41.479 --> 1:45:44.240 the one that was litigated under the Trump administration. I mean, 1:45:44.320 --> 1:45:47.960 it's just, you know, family separation. Maybe it's not the 1:45:48.040 --> 1:45:50.799 minor children being taken away, but still thousands of families 1:45:50.840 --> 1:45:54.320 being separated. I think there's a couple things like one 1:45:55.160 --> 1:45:58.280 is just people hate when Trump does it, but they 1:45:58.360 --> 1:46:01.800 don't hate when Biden does it. It's one, yeah, but also, 1:46:03.280 --> 1:46:06.160 like you said, Trump says the quiet part out loud 1:46:06.439 --> 1:46:12.040 and so people respond to that. Whereas Biden has co 1:46:12.240 --> 1:46:15.960 opted the immigrant rights movement by putting us in a 1:46:16.040 --> 1:46:18.920 stakeholder relationship. And I can see amongst some of my 1:46:19.040 --> 1:46:21.920 colleagues that they value access to power more than the 1:46:22.040 --> 1:46:24.800 rights of the people that we are supposed to serve, 1:46:25.520 --> 1:46:28.000 and so they will go along with a lot of 1:46:28.080 --> 1:46:31.800 this stuff and you know, basically enable it in many 1:46:31.840 --> 1:46:35.200 ways just to maintain that access to power. And I've 1:46:35.240 --> 1:46:38.240 seen some of my colleagues who you know, we were 1:46:38.240 --> 1:46:40.440 all finding on the same side during the Trump administration 1:46:40.560 --> 1:46:43.400 have actually gone into the Biden administration that are implementing 1:46:43.920 --> 1:46:48.479 these policies, and so it's you know, it's it's really 1:46:48.800 --> 1:46:53.320 like pretty horrifying to see. And also I would say 1:46:53.479 --> 1:46:56.439 that people in the Biden administration are in many ways 1:46:56.479 --> 1:47:00.000 smarter because it was easier to litigate under the Trump admission, 1:47:00.320 --> 1:47:02.280 we could knock down a lot of these policies because 1:47:02.280 --> 1:47:07.120 they were just dumb, not well written. You know, it's 1:47:07.160 --> 1:47:11.040 like clearly unconstitutional. You know, they learned lessons during the 1:47:11.080 --> 1:47:14.799 monuments or during the Trump administration, so now the policies 1:47:14.800 --> 1:47:16.680 are written in a way that are that make it 1:47:16.800 --> 1:47:20.760 much more difficult to litigate. And the Supreme Court in 1:47:20.840 --> 1:47:24.680 twenty twenty two, in a decision called Ale Mang Gonzalez 1:47:24.920 --> 1:47:28.160 made it impossible to get class wide injunctive relief for 1:47:28.320 --> 1:47:31.080 violations of immigration law. So what that means is that 1:47:31.840 --> 1:47:35.240 dhs can violate the law and there's no way to 1:47:35.320 --> 1:47:37.680 stop them from doing so on a large scale in 1:47:37.760 --> 1:47:40.800 the courts, and they are banking on that when in 1:47:40.920 --> 1:47:44.320 current litigation, they literally are relying on that to continue 1:47:44.360 --> 1:47:46.479 breaking the law, especially when it comes to turning asylum 1:47:46.479 --> 1:47:47.080 seekers away. 1:47:47.960 --> 1:47:50.920 Yeah, and something else that Testament has asked for is 1:47:52.040 --> 1:47:54.240 he wants them to turn asylum seekers away before they 1:47:54.280 --> 1:47:56.840 get to the border and then quite understand what they 1:47:57.800 --> 1:47:59.920 like that would be inside Mexico. 1:47:59.680 --> 1:48:02.479 Which well, that's what Mexico is doing right now. 1:48:02.720 --> 1:48:07.800 Yeah, yeah, Yeah, they're like I was in Coocomber, like 1:48:08.160 --> 1:48:11.479 on Friday Thursday, and they get National Guard or like 1:48:11.560 --> 1:48:13.040 sitting at the little gaps in the wall. 1:48:14.800 --> 1:48:17.080 I mean you've seen it too. You see National Guard, 1:48:17.160 --> 1:48:20.120 Mexican National Guard drive up, they kind of check out 1:48:20.160 --> 1:48:22.960 the situation and leave, and then the travel agents come 1:48:23.040 --> 1:48:26.840 and drop off the migrants. And so it's something very 1:48:26.920 --> 1:48:30.559 much that can be controlled to a great extent within Mexico, 1:48:30.920 --> 1:48:36.800 and the US is very obviously, you know, working with 1:48:36.960 --> 1:48:41.439 Mexico publicly obviously working with Mexico to stop migrants from 1:48:41.720 --> 1:48:44.800 reaching the US Mexico border, and working with countries further 1:48:44.960 --> 1:48:48.519 south to stop people from reaching the US Mexico border. 1:48:48.640 --> 1:48:51.679 So this is definitely a regional project. 1:48:52.280 --> 1:48:54.760 Yeah, one thing I want to talk about is as 1:48:54.800 --> 1:48:58.960 people come through those countries further south, and there's this 1:49:00.200 --> 1:49:03.040 like in recent days, even like we're recording this on 1:49:03.880 --> 1:49:07.080 on Monday, people hear it on Wednesday. But I've seen 1:49:07.160 --> 1:49:09.920 this narrative and I think it's coming from the fact 1:49:10.160 --> 1:49:13.880 that funding for Ukraine was tied to funding for the border, 1:49:14.000 --> 1:49:18.439 and people have lost their minds over the conflict in 1:49:18.560 --> 1:49:22.280 Ukraine and and and they have silly dog pictures on Twitter, 1:49:22.479 --> 1:49:27.120 and and it'd become a replacement for a personality for 1:49:27.200 --> 1:49:33.519 a certain type of divorce guy. Like so like that, Yeah, 1:49:33.560 --> 1:49:37.880 the army of divorced dads has like turned on the border. 1:49:38.439 --> 1:49:40.240 And like one of the things you'll say is like, oh, 1:49:40.400 --> 1:49:43.040 like the border is like a like like this is 1:49:43.120 --> 1:49:45.519 how bad actors are getting in the US, you know, 1:49:45.640 --> 1:49:50.519 like you know, har Mass again, like the Hamas are 1:49:50.560 --> 1:49:56.200 really otherwise engaged in the minute. But like yeah, yeah, 1:49:56.320 --> 1:49:58.280 like there's a whole lot of people who would love 1:49:58.320 --> 1:50:01.320 to leave Gaza and and we absolutely should welcome those 1:50:01.320 --> 1:50:06.360 people here, but they can't and that's fucked up. But yeah, 1:50:06.400 --> 1:50:13.760 this idea that like isis hamas the Russian secret of 1:50:13.760 --> 1:50:18.880 the Russian FSB. I'm sure someone will have suggested, like 1:50:18.960 --> 1:50:21.960 North Korea or the PC are coming through Haucumber as well, 1:50:22.479 --> 1:50:26.400 like they seem it seems to admit, admit what happens 1:50:26.439 --> 1:50:30.519 to people entering Mexico and indeed other countries further south, right, Like, 1:50:30.640 --> 1:50:34.280 can you explain how people think the thing that the 1:50:34.400 --> 1:50:37.760 US is the only state with a capacity for surveillance, 1:50:37.840 --> 1:50:41.040 which is manifestly untrue? Can you explain how people are 1:50:41.120 --> 1:50:46.360 like surveiled and like make legible on their way north? 1:50:47.160 --> 1:50:53.360 There are multiple multilateral and bilateral information sharing agreements that 1:50:53.800 --> 1:51:01.040 connect to criminal and quote unquote intelligence databases. So when 1:51:01.160 --> 1:51:05.760 you are traveling internationally, you are subject to a web 1:51:05.840 --> 1:51:10.120 of surveillance that is, you know, in many ways connected 1:51:10.200 --> 1:51:14.240 to the United States. So the US government those you're coming, 1:51:14.439 --> 1:51:17.240 like you know, when you are countries away just by 1:51:17.320 --> 1:51:21.120 virtual using a passport. But then for people who are 1:51:21.280 --> 1:51:26.080 traveling through a regular means, there's also a web of 1:51:26.360 --> 1:51:29.240 biometric collection stations that have been set up by the 1:51:29.280 --> 1:51:34.160 Department of Homeland Security, most notably north of the Darien Gap, 1:51:34.360 --> 1:51:39.040 and so extra continental migrants, those from outside of the Americas, 1:51:39.160 --> 1:51:42.080 as well as some Venezuelans and a few other nationalities, 1:51:42.640 --> 1:51:48.160 have their fingerprints taken Irish scans pictures taking for facial recognition, 1:51:49.040 --> 1:51:51.639 and that is entered into a database that is shared 1:51:51.680 --> 1:51:57.280 directly with the US government. There's several other bilateral information 1:51:57.720 --> 1:52:02.639 sharing agreements that are focused particularly on biometrics, with several 1:52:02.680 --> 1:52:07.000 Central American countries and with Mexico obviously, and Mexico has 1:52:07.800 --> 1:52:11.519 just insane enforcement in southern Mexico. If you've ever tried 1:52:11.560 --> 1:52:15.280 to travel over land from top of Toula in Mexico City, 1:52:15.400 --> 1:52:19.559 you will go through numerous checkpoints where you know your 1:52:19.640 --> 1:52:22.160 information is taken. You know, a lot of times you're 1:52:22.200 --> 1:52:25.240 just paying a bribe to keep going. But it's something 1:52:25.320 --> 1:52:28.760 where you know they know who's coming. That's why you 1:52:28.840 --> 1:52:31.120 hear all the time in the media like this, many 1:52:31.160 --> 1:52:33.000 people are coming through the dairy and Gap. How do 1:52:33.080 --> 1:52:35.519 they know that, Well, they have these biometric you know, 1:52:35.680 --> 1:52:39.600 information collection stations. But I think just more broadly, like 1:52:40.040 --> 1:52:43.920 coming through the southern border as a refugee or just 1:52:44.040 --> 1:52:47.360 as a migrant is probably the stupidest way to come 1:52:47.400 --> 1:52:50.400 into the United States if you are trying to, you know, 1:52:50.560 --> 1:52:55.320 do a terrorist attack. Because like border patrol, despite what 1:52:55.400 --> 1:52:57.720 they like to say, they are not overwhelmed. You know, 1:52:57.800 --> 1:53:00.960 if you divide the number of coming over by the 1:53:01.040 --> 1:53:04.880 number of agents, it's far less than one migrant per 1:53:04.960 --> 1:53:07.840 agent per day, So they have a pretty good lock 1:53:07.920 --> 1:53:09.639 on the border. There's not a lot of people getting 1:53:09.640 --> 1:53:12.880 through undetected. Those who turn themselves in, which is the 1:53:13.000 --> 1:53:17.560 vast majority of people, they are subject to all of 1:53:17.640 --> 1:53:20.920 the same surveillance and security checks I just mentioned. They 1:53:20.960 --> 1:53:24.240 get their DNA sample taken at the border, they give 1:53:24.320 --> 1:53:26.840 all of their information, and then they are not let 1:53:26.880 --> 1:53:30.519 out of custody if they trigger any kind of security flag, 1:53:30.640 --> 1:53:32.920 and it can just be like they're from Yemen, they're 1:53:32.920 --> 1:53:33.720 from Afghanistan. 1:53:33.800 --> 1:53:35.600 Sometimes they're just detained because of that. 1:53:36.000 --> 1:53:38.879 But any of those if any of those checks are triggered, 1:53:39.000 --> 1:53:41.439 they're detained for the duration of proceedings. They never see 1:53:41.479 --> 1:53:45.559 that outside of a prison. So this idea that terrorists 1:53:45.600 --> 1:53:48.360 are sneaking over the border is frankly stupid. I think, 1:53:48.680 --> 1:53:50.240 you know, if we think back to nine to eleven. 1:53:50.400 --> 1:53:51.759 I think they all came on visas. 1:53:52.000 --> 1:53:53.680 Yeah, yeah, and like. 1:53:55.240 --> 1:53:57.599 The system makes it so much easier for someone who 1:53:57.760 --> 1:54:02.120 is wealthy and white and otherwise privileged to come to 1:54:02.200 --> 1:54:05.560 this country that like it's ridiculous to think that a 1:54:05.640 --> 1:54:08.679 state actor like Russia wouldn't take advantage of that, rather 1:54:08.800 --> 1:54:11.960 than yeah, yeah, attempting to walk someone through the border 1:54:12.000 --> 1:54:14.920 where they're about to like encounter some of the most 1:54:15.000 --> 1:54:18.519 intense state surveillance that can happen to a person, and. 1:54:18.640 --> 1:54:21.960 You start off in a prison, So like, why would 1:54:22.040 --> 1:54:25.160 you do that? You may never believe it any sense. Yeah, 1:54:25.360 --> 1:54:27.439 it doesn't make any sense. I'm sure there's like, you know, 1:54:27.760 --> 1:54:31.920 some people who have ties to foreign intelligence. Sure, I 1:54:32.000 --> 1:54:35.160 mean it could happen, but it's like, so the number 1:54:35.280 --> 1:54:38.000 is so vanangially small. And I think another important thing 1:54:38.080 --> 1:54:42.200 to note is when people are processed, they have an 1:54:42.240 --> 1:54:45.360 obligation to attend an immigration court hearing. And when I 1:54:45.520 --> 1:54:49.520 looked at the statistics for Russian asylum seekers in particular, 1:54:49.560 --> 1:54:51.400 because I've seen a lot of this rhetoric of like 1:54:51.800 --> 1:54:55.480 Russia sending spies over the border, So ninety eight point 1:54:55.560 --> 1:54:58.360 five percent of them show up to their immigration court hearings. 1:54:58.680 --> 1:55:00.720 Are you going to do that if you're you're gonna 1:55:00.880 --> 1:55:05.040 subject yourself to another round of security checks and you know, 1:55:05.160 --> 1:55:08.520 spill your entire asylum story, subject yourself to cross examination. 1:55:08.720 --> 1:55:11.040 No you're not. Yeah, I don't know. 1:55:11.600 --> 1:55:15.000 People have watched that film, the TV series The Americans 1:55:15.000 --> 1:55:19.640 a little too much losing their minds. Okay, So I think, yeah, 1:55:19.920 --> 1:55:22.480 it's really important to also point out, like when we're 1:55:22.520 --> 1:55:26.440 talking about the potential for bad actors. So yeah, like sure, 1:55:26.520 --> 1:55:28.760 maybe there's someone who's come who's done something bad, or 1:55:28.800 --> 1:55:30.560 maybe there's someone who comes who will do something bad. 1:55:31.120 --> 1:55:34.320 It doesn't mean that everyone else who came is in 1:55:34.400 --> 1:55:37.480 any way complicit in that, Like we haven't given them 1:55:37.520 --> 1:55:39.880 another way to come here. It's not like they had 1:55:39.960 --> 1:55:42.040 to take the bad guy route because they chose to. 1:55:43.080 --> 1:55:46.280 Like you, no one would be picking up their children 1:55:46.680 --> 1:55:50.520 and walking across the desert and then spending sometimes up 1:55:50.600 --> 1:55:53.000 to a week in camps which are currently below freezing 1:55:53.080 --> 1:55:56.040 at night, sometimes with you know, like a blanket or 1:55:56.800 --> 1:55:59.960 like a tent, or maybe it woulden't shelter with their luck. 1:56:01.280 --> 1:56:02.720 No one will be doing that if there was an 1:56:02.760 --> 1:56:06.560 easier option and it's ludicristic like claim that these people's 1:56:06.960 --> 1:56:09.960 asylum claims or the fact that they should be welcome 1:56:10.000 --> 1:56:11.960 here is in any way impacted by the actions of 1:56:12.000 --> 1:56:13.680 somebody else who might have taken the same. 1:56:15.120 --> 1:56:15.320 Yeah. 1:56:15.520 --> 1:56:18.920 I mean the other thing too, is just because the 1:56:19.000 --> 1:56:24.000 border is still closed off by policies that restrict access 1:56:24.120 --> 1:56:28.200 to asylum, it has super charged the strength of criminal 1:56:28.280 --> 1:56:31.400 groups that bring people to the border. And I will 1:56:31.520 --> 1:56:34.040 say that they are spreading a lot of misinformation. 1:56:34.240 --> 1:56:35.120 You know, they use this. 1:56:35.400 --> 1:56:38.800 Reporting from the right wing calling the border open to 1:56:39.200 --> 1:56:42.320 advertise their services, and they might very well tell people 1:56:42.360 --> 1:56:44.800 that it's a lot easier than it actually is, and 1:56:44.920 --> 1:56:47.760 that they have an easier chance to get asylum than 1:56:47.760 --> 1:56:50.560 they actually do. I mean, I don't discount the power 1:56:50.640 --> 1:56:53.720 of misinformation, but those I have seen over the past 1:56:54.480 --> 1:56:58.480 six seven years, especially since the Trump administration really tried 1:56:58.480 --> 1:57:01.640 to close off access to asylum, I've seen those groups 1:57:01.680 --> 1:57:04.400 grow in power. I've seen the price that people pay 1:57:04.560 --> 1:57:08.600 to cross the border grow both financially and just in 1:57:08.680 --> 1:57:11.120 the amount of suffering that they have to endure. So 1:57:11.560 --> 1:57:15.800 when we talk about border security and national security, I 1:57:15.880 --> 1:57:18.960 would argue that border restrictions actually make us much less 1:57:19.000 --> 1:57:23.200 safe because you know, criminal groups now completely control the border, 1:57:23.240 --> 1:57:26.720 whereas you know, a decade ago, even a person who 1:57:26.880 --> 1:57:29.400 just wanted to cross the border on their own could 1:57:29.400 --> 1:57:31.680 do so, you know, if they knew the way, they 1:57:31.760 --> 1:57:33.600 could just try to cross. And now if you try 1:57:33.640 --> 1:57:35.840 to do that without paying the criminal groups who really 1:57:35.920 --> 1:57:37.160 control it, you will get be killed. 1:57:37.520 --> 1:57:41.160 Yeah, and that's happened multiple times in the last few months. 1:57:41.680 --> 1:57:45.240 We'll talk of misleading advertising planes. We have to to 1:57:45.240 --> 1:57:47.120 take short break to hear home with them, and we'll 1:57:47.120 --> 1:57:59.440 be back in a moment. Okay, we're back. And one 1:57:59.520 --> 1:58:01.800 thing that I want to talk about that we haven't 1:58:01.800 --> 1:58:07.120 got too yet is that, like the the failed government 1:58:07.200 --> 1:58:11.280 response isn't just federal or well, it's both federal and local. 1:58:11.360 --> 1:58:13.240 But I wanted to talk a little bit about this. 1:58:13.840 --> 1:58:17.000 That the federal funding that San Diego County got, that 1:58:17.320 --> 1:58:24.640 it reallocated towards a quote unquote welcome center. Right, So, yeah, 1:58:24.680 --> 1:58:26.800 we're both very familiar with the welcome center it got. 1:58:27.120 --> 1:58:30.280 It got three million dollars initially and then got it 1:58:30.360 --> 1:58:34.080 got three million more because apparently none of us are 1:58:34.160 --> 1:58:37.480 doing anything useful anywhere else and don't merit any help, 1:58:38.200 --> 1:58:40.000 and do you want to talk first of all about 1:58:40.080 --> 1:58:44.040 just like what the conditions are like. You've just come 1:58:44.200 --> 1:58:46.880 out of being detained in the desert for maybe up 1:58:46.920 --> 1:58:50.360 to a week. It's cold, We feed you, but like 1:58:50.680 --> 1:58:52.720 we wish we could feed you more and better. You 1:58:53.000 --> 1:58:55.320 don't have a change of clothes. Right, then you've been detained. 1:58:55.600 --> 1:58:57.880 You could have been detained for one night, two nights, 1:58:57.920 --> 1:59:00.440 severne more nights, and then you hit this well consenter. 1:59:00.560 --> 1:59:03.840 So can you, like, I can think how we would 1:59:03.920 --> 1:59:05.800 like to treat people who have just been through all that, 1:59:05.960 --> 1:59:08.240 But can you explain to us how people are treated 1:59:08.280 --> 1:59:09.840 when they when they arrive at a welcome center. 1:59:10.760 --> 1:59:14.680 Well, it's they're not arriving there. They're picked up from 1:59:14.840 --> 1:59:19.440 detention by the nonprofit that's administering the welcome center in 1:59:19.800 --> 1:59:23.280 what look like prison buses, right, I mean it's I 1:59:23.400 --> 1:59:26.440 can't I can't imagine that someone getting on one of 1:59:26.480 --> 1:59:30.200 those buses understands that they're not just at another stage 1:59:30.200 --> 1:59:33.600 of detention. Right. So they get to this fenced in, 1:59:34.400 --> 1:59:39.920 abandoned school, they are lined up and they're forced to 1:59:40.920 --> 1:59:46.680 give all of their information to the nonprofit workers. They 1:59:46.800 --> 1:59:50.440 are you know, mostly not spent I think maybe like 1:59:50.560 --> 1:59:53.400 forty percent Spanish speakers. I'm sure the exact percentage, but 1:59:53.680 --> 1:59:56.640 if there's people from all over the world, there's no 1:59:56.880 --> 2:00:00.040 paid interpreters on site, and so you know they do. 2:00:00.080 --> 2:00:02.080 You have this little script that they read in the 2:00:02.160 --> 2:00:04.680 beginning saying like you're not detained, like this is a 2:00:04.760 --> 2:00:08.680 welcome center whatever, but they run it through Google Translate 2:00:08.840 --> 2:00:13.560 and then play the Google Translate like over the megaphone, 2:00:13.640 --> 2:00:16.360 which it's like, have you ever tried to like understand 2:00:16.440 --> 2:00:19.120 someone screaming something into a megaphone, never mind the fact 2:00:19.160 --> 2:00:23.480 that it's like Mandarin Google Translate. Like people, I guarantee 2:00:23.520 --> 2:00:26.000 you they still think they're in prison. And so then 2:00:26.040 --> 2:00:29.120 they go they have to sometimes wait for hours in 2:00:29.240 --> 2:00:33.080 this intake line. Only then they're given a ticket to 2:00:33.240 --> 2:00:36.280 eat the like probably some of the worst food I've 2:00:36.320 --> 2:00:39.360 ever seen, Like, you know, people are not eating a 2:00:39.400 --> 2:00:41.640 lot when they're at the opening attention sites, and then 2:00:41.680 --> 2:00:43.840 they're really not eating a lot when they're in attention 2:00:44.120 --> 2:00:46.720 And I've seen people refuse the food there because it's 2:00:46.800 --> 2:00:51.280 that bad. And it's like they're standing in a line 2:00:51.360 --> 2:00:54.480 for hours, not having eat and probably not having slept, 2:00:54.560 --> 2:00:57.320 and god knows how long, yeah, you know, having this 2:00:57.480 --> 2:01:01.839 garbled message played to them over a megaphon own So anyway, 2:01:02.000 --> 2:01:05.240 they get through all that, and then they're told they 2:01:05.320 --> 2:01:07.839 have to make their own way, you know, to their sponsor, 2:01:08.640 --> 2:01:11.880 and those who don't have the money to do so 2:01:12.760 --> 2:01:15.560 are provided with I think it's up to maybe two 2:01:15.680 --> 2:01:19.240 or three days of shelter or a hotel room before 2:01:19.400 --> 2:01:22.120 they are shipped off to another part of the country. 2:01:22.200 --> 2:01:24.400 And so the goal of the welcome center is to 2:01:24.560 --> 2:01:28.880 get rid of the migrants, to get them elsewhere. So, 2:01:29.240 --> 2:01:32.520 you know, ninety five percent to ninety nine percent do 2:01:32.720 --> 2:01:35.040 have a place to go. They don't all have the 2:01:35.120 --> 2:01:37.400 means to get there, but most of them do, almost 2:01:37.440 --> 2:01:40.760 all have the means to get there. The other few, 2:01:41.240 --> 2:01:43.520 like the other you know, one to five percent, they 2:01:43.600 --> 2:01:46.520 need help. They need you know, maybe a place to 2:01:46.560 --> 2:01:48.680 stay for a couple of months, they need help getting 2:01:48.680 --> 2:01:51.320 a work permit. They might need help, you know, applying 2:01:51.360 --> 2:01:55.000 for asylum. But instead of investing in the resources that 2:01:55.080 --> 2:01:57.160 we need locally to help them, they're shipped off to 2:01:58.000 --> 2:02:01.280 New York, Chicago or other places is that have invested 2:02:01.320 --> 2:02:05.080 in those resources. And that's really the same thing Greg 2:02:05.080 --> 2:02:07.400 Abbott was doing from Texas. But you know, we're just 2:02:07.480 --> 2:02:08.480 putting a nicer. 2:02:08.720 --> 2:02:12.200 We call it a welcome sentence yah, yeah, somewhere better 2:02:12.720 --> 2:02:17.080 yeah yeah, and the Welcome Center, Like we could go 2:02:17.200 --> 2:02:19.640 deeper into its funding, but I think it's fair to 2:02:19.680 --> 2:02:21.840 say that, like it's for one thing, it's doing things 2:02:21.880 --> 2:02:22.760 that CBP. 2:02:22.600 --> 2:02:26.600 Should do right, like a transport specifically. 2:02:26.880 --> 2:02:30.760 Transport specifically, but also like this idea of doing an 2:02:30.840 --> 2:02:33.240 intake with every single person who comes through there is 2:02:33.280 --> 2:02:37.040 such a waste of money because it's like it's infantilizing. 2:02:37.360 --> 2:02:39.480 These people have traveled across the world. You think they 2:02:39.520 --> 2:02:41.840 can't get to the airport on their own. Yeah, you know, 2:02:42.160 --> 2:02:45.400 it doesn't focus resources on that, you know, one to 2:02:45.480 --> 2:02:47.840 five percent of people who really do need help. It 2:02:48.120 --> 2:02:51.840 wastes resources on people who really don't. They need Wi Fi, 2:02:52.000 --> 2:02:55.280 they need a phone charger, yeah, and maybe like a 2:02:55.400 --> 2:02:57.880 hard email. You know, they're getting the Wi Fi and 2:02:57.920 --> 2:03:01.600 the phone charger, which is not provided by the organization 2:03:01.720 --> 2:03:04.040 that receives six million dollars. It's provided by one of 2:03:04.080 --> 2:03:07.880 the few organizations, including my own, who are there providing 2:03:07.920 --> 2:03:10.600 services without county funding. Because we didn't want to be 2:03:10.880 --> 2:03:12.600 associated with this debacle. 2:03:13.600 --> 2:03:13.800 Yeah. 2:03:14.200 --> 2:03:16.680 And another thing you do is family reunification there, right, 2:03:16.760 --> 2:03:18.000 you guys are helping take care of that. 2:03:18.920 --> 2:03:19.120 Yeah. 2:03:19.800 --> 2:03:23.000 Again, I think people aren't aware that families need to 2:03:23.040 --> 2:03:25.880 be reunified, but they're still very much separated when they're 2:03:25.920 --> 2:03:26.360 in detention. 2:03:27.480 --> 2:03:31.240 Well, they're separated at open air detention sites, they're separated 2:03:31.480 --> 2:03:35.560 in detention. We've documented since September. I think it's over 2:03:35.600 --> 2:03:38.840 eleven hundred families now that have been separated. Almost half 2:03:38.880 --> 2:03:41.440 of them are spousal separations, but a lot of times, 2:03:41.560 --> 2:03:44.600 when you know, wife and husband are separated, the kids 2:03:44.640 --> 2:03:48.120 are with one spouse or another, so you know, technically 2:03:48.240 --> 2:03:51.280 it's a separation of a child. We see a lot 2:03:51.360 --> 2:03:54.360 of separations of like eighteen year old children from the 2:03:54.400 --> 2:03:57.120 rest of their families where they're sent to detention facilities 2:03:57.160 --> 2:04:00.720 and the rest of the family's released. So all you know, 2:04:00.880 --> 2:04:06.520 grandma from grandkids or needs a nephew, siblings, separations. I mean, 2:04:06.560 --> 2:04:10.360 it's all traumatic, right, it's just not the particular brand 2:04:10.400 --> 2:04:13.160 of Trump separation that people seem to care. 2:04:13.040 --> 2:04:14.240 About, right yeah. 2:04:14.320 --> 2:04:16.600 Yeah, they quote unquote kids in cages. 2:04:16.960 --> 2:04:19.480 Right yeah, oh they're still on the cage, yeah. 2:04:19.480 --> 2:04:25.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, or the dad but not both. 2:04:25.560 --> 2:04:30.400 Sometimes God, yeah, it's it's equally it's equally tragic, but 2:04:30.480 --> 2:04:33.000 it's more tragic that somehow we've normalized it. And like 2:04:33.280 --> 2:04:37.960 with this immigration stuff only seems to be able to 2:04:38.160 --> 2:04:42.600 ratchet one way and it's further towards like insane degrees 2:04:42.680 --> 2:04:46.640 of cruelty, right, Like, Yeah, the fact that Biden is 2:04:46.720 --> 2:04:49.520 doing what Trump did doesn't mean that Trump will do 2:04:49.640 --> 2:04:52.400 what Biden did if Trump is elected again, right, Like, 2:04:53.840 --> 2:04:56.040 somehow they will find a way to make this even worse. 2:04:57.600 --> 2:05:00.480 Oh, absolutely, And I think the open air detention insights 2:05:00.640 --> 2:05:03.640 our preview of what we'll see. You know, it's this 2:05:03.840 --> 2:05:10.320 idea of it being normal to deny people food, water, shelter, 2:05:10.480 --> 2:05:15.440 and medical care because they, you know, committed this awful 2:05:16.400 --> 2:05:19.040 crime of crossing the border, which is like a misdemeanor, 2:05:19.200 --> 2:05:21.800 by the way, and it's not even supposed to be 2:05:21.880 --> 2:05:24.880 illegal if you're seeking the asylum. The Refugee Convention actually 2:05:24.920 --> 2:05:30.240 prohibits criminal prosecution of of folks who cross borders irregularly 2:05:30.320 --> 2:05:33.480 to seek asylum, and by and large, the US attorneys, 2:05:33.840 --> 2:05:37.080 at least during the Biden administration, have stuck to that. 2:05:37.240 --> 2:05:41.400 You know, if you're arrested for crossing irregularly and you 2:05:42.280 --> 2:05:45.000 then apply for asylum. Generally the charges will be dropped. 2:05:45.760 --> 2:05:48.640 So but like this invader rhetoric right, like, oh, they're 2:05:48.680 --> 2:05:52.560 invading our country and whatever, the white replacement theory, all 2:05:52.600 --> 2:05:56.200 of that is really driving this really normalization of the 2:05:56.280 --> 2:05:58.240 inhumane treatment of border crossers. 2:05:59.320 --> 2:06:01.280 Yeah, the point you made about that, Yeah, you can 2:06:01.320 --> 2:06:03.520 cross between ports of entry and they claim asylum, and 2:06:03.920 --> 2:06:09.320 it's one that seems to be completely missing from their discussion. 2:06:09.400 --> 2:06:13.800 Like I've seen countless times I've seen that like misrepresented 2:06:14.040 --> 2:06:16.320 in other articles and it's. 2:06:17.360 --> 2:06:18.720 In almost every single one. 2:06:19.160 --> 2:06:22.800 Yeah, it's really disappointed, Like I have very little respect 2:06:22.840 --> 2:06:26.960 left to lose for other people who work, Like especially 2:06:27.040 --> 2:06:29.760 folks who wish to report on the border without visiting 2:06:29.840 --> 2:06:33.840 the border, are just like, what are you sparing yourself 2:06:33.880 --> 2:06:37.000 to trauma of seeing little children staying outside? Because like 2:06:38.200 --> 2:06:40.160 their trauma is much greater than yours, you know, and 2:06:40.200 --> 2:06:42.320 the things that they're coming away from are much greater 2:06:42.480 --> 2:06:44.920 than any trauma you're going to take on. I understand 2:06:44.960 --> 2:06:47.120 it's not very nice, but like we should phrase up 2:06:47.160 --> 2:06:50.640 to the not very nice things so that country does well. 2:06:50.720 --> 2:06:54.440 You're also members of Congress who legislate on the border 2:06:54.600 --> 2:06:57.080 or trade away the rights of asylum seekers without ever 2:06:57.280 --> 2:06:59.800 having met any of them. And those who do come 2:06:59.840 --> 2:07:02.720 to the border just go on the border patrol tour 2:07:03.320 --> 2:07:06.480 and don't actually talk to the migrants, and so that's 2:07:06.720 --> 2:07:09.680 even worse, you know. But yeah, I agree, like this 2:07:09.920 --> 2:07:13.200 idea that they're illegal is completely wrong. They're inn illegal process. 2:07:13.480 --> 2:07:16.480 They're not prosecuted for illegal entry by and large, you know, 2:07:16.520 --> 2:07:19.680 unless they've tried multiple times, and even then if they 2:07:19.760 --> 2:07:21.640 pass a credible fear interview, a lot of times those 2:07:21.680 --> 2:07:24.880 criminal charges are dropped, and so they're not illegal. This 2:07:25.080 --> 2:07:27.840 is a legal process. It's a legal way to access 2:07:28.000 --> 2:07:30.720 that process, especially when the ports of entry have been 2:07:30.720 --> 2:07:31.480 closed off to them. 2:07:32.120 --> 2:07:34.600 Yeah, and I think they've done to enter the US 2:07:34.760 --> 2:07:38.120 or get any part of their journey disqualifies them from asylum. 2:07:38.200 --> 2:07:40.400 As you say, it makes it like a quote unquote 2:07:40.400 --> 2:07:45.760 illegal which is just kind of loaded language anyway. But yeah, 2:07:46.280 --> 2:07:49.280 they've taken every step to take to make a legal 2:07:49.320 --> 2:07:52.960 asylum claim, and lots of them will be like extremely 2:07:53.320 --> 2:07:56.400 aware of having done that, like not wanting to, Like 2:07:56.480 --> 2:08:00.840 if people wanted to walk out of the they open 2:08:00.880 --> 2:08:04.320 their attention sites, they could that they're not quote unquote detained, right, 2:08:04.440 --> 2:08:07.560 But like people are so cautious that they don't want 2:08:07.600 --> 2:08:09.640 to do anything that might imperil their asylum. 2:08:11.320 --> 2:08:15.640 Yeah, and it's really sad because they already have by 2:08:15.720 --> 2:08:18.760 crossing the border between ports of entry. That's what Biden's 2:08:18.800 --> 2:08:22.800 asylum ban addresses. Yeah, and so they're sort of coming 2:08:22.840 --> 2:08:26.560 from a defensive posture with respect to their eligibility for 2:08:26.640 --> 2:08:30.240 asylum by virtue of having done that. But the criminal 2:08:30.320 --> 2:08:33.520 groups that are organizing their transport tell them that that's 2:08:33.600 --> 2:08:35.840 the legal way. And people who are coming into open 2:08:35.880 --> 2:08:38.600 air detention sites believe they are following a legal process, 2:08:38.600 --> 2:08:41.160 which you know, they are to a certain extent, but 2:08:41.680 --> 2:08:46.360 there's definitely legal consequences for having access the system that way. 2:08:46.440 --> 2:08:49.880 Yeah, Yeah, even though like, yeah, many of these people, 2:08:50.080 --> 2:08:54.480 like I have sat with dozens of people, maybe hundreds 2:08:54.520 --> 2:08:57.440 of people, as they've explained to me the amount of 2:08:57.480 --> 2:09:02.400 time CBP one crashed on their phone, their attempts to 2:09:02.560 --> 2:09:05.880 go to the US embassy in a city that might 2:09:05.960 --> 2:09:08.240 not be safe for them, or to like transit through it. 2:09:08.400 --> 2:09:10.880 You know, look at a regime that wants them dead. 2:09:12.080 --> 2:09:14.840 You know, hundreds of Kurdish people have shared with me 2:09:15.000 --> 2:09:17.920 that they've tried to get visas for the US and failed, 2:09:18.280 --> 2:09:23.920 and they've tried every other option before trying this one. 2:09:24.840 --> 2:09:27.080 Yeah, I think most people have. Most people have. 2:09:27.440 --> 2:09:28.200 No one would do this. 2:09:28.720 --> 2:09:28.840 You know. 2:09:28.960 --> 2:09:29.480 It's not fun. 2:09:29.600 --> 2:09:30.680 It's not fun at all. 2:09:30.960 --> 2:09:31.000 No. 2:09:32.520 --> 2:09:34.600 The last thing I wanted you to explain, Erica, is 2:09:35.320 --> 2:09:38.160 people are placed when they come through this whole system 2:09:38.280 --> 2:09:42.640 right in a defensive they make a defensive asylum claim. 2:09:42.720 --> 2:09:46.080 Can you explain what that is and what the difference 2:09:46.080 --> 2:09:49.200 betwe affirmative and defensive asylum for people, because again, it's 2:09:49.520 --> 2:09:52.720 a lot of reporting, I've seen it, this is missing. 2:09:53.880 --> 2:09:58.400 Yeah. So if I came to the US on a 2:09:58.560 --> 2:10:02.680 visa and then decided I wanted to apply for asylum, 2:10:03.520 --> 2:10:07.360 I would be applying affirmatively. So that means that I've 2:10:07.440 --> 2:10:11.800 never been apprehended by immigration. I've never been placed in 2:10:12.000 --> 2:10:16.040 any kind of removal or deportation proceeding. Removal is just 2:10:16.160 --> 2:10:18.920 like the legal term for deportation. And so when you 2:10:19.000 --> 2:10:23.480 apply affirmatively, your initial screening is before an asylum officer. 2:10:23.800 --> 2:10:29.360 It's a sensibly a non adversarial hearing. But I've been 2:10:29.680 --> 2:10:31.320 I've been in a lot of them. And that's not 2:10:31.440 --> 2:10:33.080 always the case. But you know, you don't have like 2:10:33.160 --> 2:10:37.720 a like a government attorney cross examining you. It's just 2:10:37.920 --> 2:10:40.880 it's just the asylum officer who's supposed to be nice, 2:10:41.000 --> 2:10:44.640 but they're not always. And then if you win, if 2:10:44.680 --> 2:10:46.840 they approve your case, that's the end. You just get 2:10:46.840 --> 2:10:50.840 asylum and then you know that's a path to citizenship. 2:10:51.320 --> 2:10:53.960 If you are not approved, then you would be placed 2:10:54.040 --> 2:10:57.640 in removal proceedings where you could present your asylum case 2:10:57.680 --> 2:11:00.840 before an immigration judge. And so defense is when you 2:11:01.240 --> 2:11:03.920 are apprehended or you turn yourself in at the border, 2:11:04.480 --> 2:11:07.480 you are placed in removal proceedings, so you don't get 2:11:07.520 --> 2:11:10.680 that first asylum interview before the officer. You just go 2:11:10.800 --> 2:11:14.600 straight to immigration court. And so when you're presenting your 2:11:14.640 --> 2:11:18.120 case in immigration court, there's a government attorney who's actively 2:11:18.200 --> 2:11:21.600 trying to deport you. I think most of the judges 2:11:21.720 --> 2:11:25.600 used to be government attorneys, and so many times it 2:11:25.640 --> 2:11:29.960 feels like they're also trying to deport you. And the 2:11:30.080 --> 2:11:34.600 success of your claim is pretty much completely dependent on 2:11:34.760 --> 2:11:38.840 where it is adjudicated. So and you know less also 2:11:39.000 --> 2:11:41.640 to have to do with your nationality. So if you 2:11:42.040 --> 2:11:47.520 are applying for asylum before the Atlanta Immigration Court. Pretty 2:11:47.600 --> 2:11:50.160 much ninety nine percent of those cases are denied, and 2:11:50.200 --> 2:11:52.800 there's some judges who've denied one hundred percent of cases. 2:11:53.320 --> 2:11:56.840 And that's true for a lot of jurisdictions within the Southeast. 2:11:56.920 --> 2:11:59.320 And then you know you have your friendlier jurisdictions like 2:11:59.400 --> 2:12:02.520 San francisc Go. San Diego is not too bad actually, 2:12:02.760 --> 2:12:05.160 but you know you have other courts where you have 2:12:05.280 --> 2:12:08.120 a better chance depending on the judge. But it really 2:12:08.200 --> 2:12:12.200 depends on the location the judge that you happen to get. 2:12:12.280 --> 2:12:15.160 You could present the same exact claim in different cities 2:12:15.200 --> 2:12:17.480 before different judges and have a completely different outcome. 2:12:18.480 --> 2:12:21.400 Yeah, there's no objective criteria and people know this too, 2:12:21.880 --> 2:12:24.960 but unfortunately, like to get yourself to San Francisco and 2:12:25.120 --> 2:12:28.320 then survive there. It just as an example, right until 2:12:28.720 --> 2:12:32.240 your quote day comes up, it's unfathomably expensive, Like for me, 2:12:33.000 --> 2:12:35.080 I couldn't afford to get myself to San Francisco and 2:12:35.160 --> 2:12:38.760 make rent there and it's barely plussible in San Diego. 2:12:38.840 --> 2:12:43.480 So yeah, and you don't You don't qualify for work 2:12:43.560 --> 2:12:47.240 authorization until I think you can apply five months after 2:12:47.360 --> 2:12:51.160 you've submitted your application for asylum, and in many cases 2:12:51.440 --> 2:12:54.040 you don't get your initial court date for months or 2:12:54.160 --> 2:12:58.440 years after you've entered mostly months. But people don't understand 2:12:58.480 --> 2:13:01.640 that you can lodge your sylum application before your first 2:13:01.680 --> 2:13:05.240 court date to get that clock going on your work authorization, 2:13:05.960 --> 2:13:09.720 and so people I see very commonly are waiting at 2:13:09.800 --> 2:13:13.080 least a year to get work authorization. And so you know, 2:13:13.200 --> 2:13:15.040 not only would you have to survive in a high 2:13:15.560 --> 2:13:18.840 cost of living city, but without the legal ability to work. 2:13:19.400 --> 2:13:21.680 So it's really hard for people when they first come 2:13:21.720 --> 2:13:25.240 to the United States. And you know, unlike what is 2:13:25.800 --> 2:13:28.720 spouted many times in the right wing media space, there 2:13:28.760 --> 2:13:32.000 are no benefits available to someone who's seeking asylum. They're 2:13:32.000 --> 2:13:33.640 not getting any kind of government money. 2:13:34.000 --> 2:13:38.480 Yeah yeah, yeah, there's a I remember what you have 2:13:38.560 --> 2:13:40.800 to be it's like a burden of the state or 2:13:40.840 --> 2:13:42.600 something thing that you have to ward of. 2:13:42.720 --> 2:13:46.680 I can't remember when you public charge. So like on 2:13:46.760 --> 2:13:48.400 top of all this, people aren't aware of that. 2:13:48.520 --> 2:13:51.440 It's very uh, it's sad, Like like I've had a 2:13:51.520 --> 2:13:54.120 bunch of people who've interviewed or just befriended when I've 2:13:54.120 --> 2:13:56.080 been helping out in the Cumbat who have. 2:13:56.120 --> 2:13:59.480 Been like, hey, like, how do I find work? 2:14:00.640 --> 2:14:03.240 Like well, like, do you know do you have they 2:14:03.320 --> 2:14:05.520 they didn't realize they wouldn't be permitted to work, like 2:14:06.040 --> 2:14:08.320 and even like we spoke to him wilst the other 2:14:08.400 --> 2:14:12.919 day he has offers of work right from his old employer, 2:14:13.640 --> 2:14:15.800 but they he can't take them up on that because, 2:14:15.800 --> 2:14:19.360 as you say, he's got to sit doing nothing for 2:14:19.840 --> 2:14:24.160 five months until he's legally allowed to work. Which is 2:14:24.640 --> 2:14:26.920 it doesn't help anyone, right, it doesn't doesn't help migrant, 2:14:27.200 --> 2:14:31.280 it doesn't help us. It just forces people to work 2:14:31.320 --> 2:14:33.960 for cash or for for lower wage jobs, which leaves 2:14:34.000 --> 2:14:37.640 him right for abuse sort of for non payment, and like, 2:14:38.240 --> 2:14:40.560 it's a system that doesn't really work for anyone. They 2:14:40.640 --> 2:14:42.800 have no rights as workers, rightly. They can also be 2:14:43.120 --> 2:14:45.000 end up doing very dangerous work, and we've seen that 2:14:45.280 --> 2:14:45.560 a lot. 2:14:45.840 --> 2:14:48.960 Well, I think something too that's important to note is 2:14:49.040 --> 2:14:52.720 that there's obviously all these push factors toward migration, but 2:14:52.920 --> 2:14:55.760 a huge pull factor is the employment market in the 2:14:55.880 --> 2:14:58.879 United States. So we have, you know, hundreds of thousands 2:14:58.920 --> 2:15:03.520 of open jobs, and you know, people have to leave 2:15:03.520 --> 2:15:05.760 their country, but they also choose to go to a 2:15:05.840 --> 2:15:08.080 certain place. So many of them, like I said, almost 2:15:08.080 --> 2:15:09.480 all of them have some kind of tie to the 2:15:09.600 --> 2:15:11.720 United States, like family or friends. You can host them, 2:15:12.200 --> 2:15:13.800 but they're not going to come here if they can't 2:15:13.800 --> 2:15:16.760 get a job. And so it's important to note that 2:15:16.840 --> 2:15:19.600 as well. And I think what you're saying about the 2:15:20.120 --> 2:15:24.000 exploitation of migrants in the labor industry is really important 2:15:24.080 --> 2:15:28.200 because I think that, you know, that's part of why 2:15:28.280 --> 2:15:30.880 there are so many restrictions, because when you do not 2:15:31.320 --> 2:15:34.840 provide a path to citizenship, you create a permanent underclass 2:15:35.000 --> 2:15:38.440 that is very vulnerable to exploitation. And I think that's 2:15:38.480 --> 2:15:39.000 by design. 2:15:39.800 --> 2:15:44.080 Yeah, it it works very well, right, like an increases 2:15:44.240 --> 2:15:47.440 for people who are unconcerned with the well being about 2:15:47.440 --> 2:15:50.280 the humans, let get it, create creates a constant pool 2:15:50.320 --> 2:15:51.560 of cheap and disposable labor. 2:15:53.080 --> 2:15:56.080 Yeah, because if they're invaders, you know, and they start 2:15:56.120 --> 2:15:58.680 to act up and demand their rights, it's very easy 2:15:58.720 --> 2:16:01.160 politically to just get rid of the supporting Yeah. 2:16:01.320 --> 2:16:03.280 And that some of the same people who are deploying 2:16:03.320 --> 2:16:06.240 this closed the border rhetoric, I'm sure also exactly good 2:16:06.240 --> 2:16:10.080 advantage of that documented labor. And Okay, if people want 2:16:10.080 --> 2:16:13.080 to help, they want to donate, they want to learn 2:16:13.200 --> 2:16:15.880 more about this. Is there a place where they can 2:16:15.960 --> 2:16:21.640 find you or ALO on the internet, so they can. 2:16:21.520 --> 2:16:25.520 Go to our website, which is al A l O 2:16:25.760 --> 2:16:30.360 t r O l A d O dot org to donate. 2:16:30.440 --> 2:16:32.800 There's a donate button there on the homepage, or you 2:16:32.879 --> 2:16:39.560 can put dot org slash donate. We are a underscore 2:16:39.879 --> 2:16:44.240 org on all of the social media platforms. And if 2:16:44.320 --> 2:16:47.280 folks have people in their lives who are migrants who 2:16:47.400 --> 2:16:50.279 want more information about the asylum system, I would recommend 2:16:50.400 --> 2:16:54.320 going to our TikTok page, which has multiple videos in 2:16:54.520 --> 2:16:58.480 over a dozen languages, including many indigenous languages on the 2:16:58.560 --> 2:17:03.160 asylum process. And then for you know, those of us 2:17:03.240 --> 2:17:06.520 who are wanting to learn more, our Instagram pages is 2:17:06.920 --> 2:17:08.120 more public facing. 2:17:09.600 --> 2:17:09.960 Perfect. 2:17:10.040 --> 2:17:12.240 Yeah, that's great. You guys have some excellent merch as well. 2:17:12.320 --> 2:17:14.840 You're still selling your t shirt? 2:17:14.879 --> 2:17:17.920 Oh yeah, we have hope. We have Tope bags and 2:17:18.040 --> 2:17:18.520 mugs too. 2:17:19.160 --> 2:17:21.560 Okay, yeah, just like NPR but Coola. 2:17:23.320 --> 2:17:24.400 Well yeah, I. 2:17:24.440 --> 2:17:29.760 Think we can customize the messaging too. You know, I 2:17:30.400 --> 2:17:33.720 can think of a few that probably aren't appropriate to 2:17:34.160 --> 2:17:37.240 stay a polite company, but if folks have suggestions for 2:17:37.320 --> 2:17:38.800 what they'd like to see in our merch, we'd be 2:17:39.000 --> 2:17:41.600 more than happy to take those suggestions on our info 2:17:41.720 --> 2:17:42.920 at Aleta dot org. 2:17:43.000 --> 2:17:46.440 Email perfect, great, Yeah, I'm sure you'll be flooded with ideas. 2:17:46.640 --> 2:17:50.280 Thanks, thank you so much for having me. 2:18:04.520 --> 2:18:06.200 Oh oh, for. 2:18:07.720 --> 2:18:11.320 Jesus. I just spit cigarettes across the room, spit the 2:18:11.400 --> 2:18:12.840 proxially seven cigarettes. 2:18:13.640 --> 2:18:15.760 I had a number of them in my mouth. Welcome 2:18:15.840 --> 2:18:19.279 back to it could happen here, a podcast about things 2:18:19.480 --> 2:18:22.720 falling apart, and you know what's constantly falling apart? But 2:18:22.840 --> 2:18:27.080 also never Las Vegas, Nevada, where Garrison and I are 2:18:27.560 --> 2:18:31.200 right now reporting on the Consumer Electronics Show, which is 2:18:31.240 --> 2:18:33.200 why I just had seven cigarettes in my mouth. How 2:18:33.240 --> 2:18:34.280 you doing, buddy, Great? 2:18:34.320 --> 2:18:37.640 We just lost about twenty dollars pack to Excalifer. 2:18:37.840 --> 2:18:40.879 Yeah, one of the worst hotels on the strip. Terrible place, 2:18:41.200 --> 2:18:43.840 horrible place. But I smoked a lot of cigarettes there, 2:18:43.920 --> 2:18:46.000 so it's not bad. I don't even like them. 2:18:46.040 --> 2:18:48.920 I just like doing things I can't do other place, 2:18:49.000 --> 2:18:50.400 like smoking indoors, is what you're saying. 2:18:50.400 --> 2:18:50.560 I do. 2:18:50.920 --> 2:18:51.760 I'm a big fan of it. 2:18:52.840 --> 2:18:53.240 Other things. 2:18:53.280 --> 2:18:56.600 I'm a big fan of innovative technology products of which 2:18:56.680 --> 2:19:00.959 we saw very few, perhaps three today. What we did 2:19:01.080 --> 2:19:05.600 do is spend seven to eight cumulative hours in different 2:19:06.040 --> 2:19:11.320 roundtable discussions of various industry experts on AI and the 2:19:11.400 --> 2:19:12.760 future they have prepared for us. 2:19:12.800 --> 2:19:12.920 All. 2:19:13.000 --> 2:19:15.160 We have a fun episode coming for you. Are a 2:19:15.240 --> 2:19:18.000 couple of them about AI and what the tech industry 2:19:18.000 --> 2:19:18.520 wants for us. 2:19:18.560 --> 2:19:18.680 All. 2:19:18.800 --> 2:19:25.320 But because Garrison got too drunk tonight, that's not true. Well, 2:19:26.160 --> 2:19:29.680 someone got too drunk tonight, and I'm not at liberty 2:19:29.720 --> 2:19:32.440 to discuss who We're going to talk about the products 2:19:32.480 --> 2:19:36.480 today that were just absolute fucking catastrophes. And in order 2:19:36.520 --> 2:19:38.120 to help us talk about that, I would like to 2:19:38.200 --> 2:19:42.400 bring in our pinch hitting guest star slash technological expert, 2:19:42.840 --> 2:19:43.480 Tavia Mora. 2:19:43.640 --> 2:19:45.360 Tavia, how you doing. 2:19:45.800 --> 2:19:46.480 I'm doing great. 2:19:46.959 --> 2:19:49.960 How did you like your first cees? As a journalist, 2:19:51.280 --> 2:19:51.520 it's a. 2:19:51.520 --> 2:19:54.879 Little different, but I was glad to get into places 2:19:54.920 --> 2:19:56.200 I would not otherwise get into. 2:19:56.520 --> 2:20:00.280 Yeah, now, because you are an industry person, he'll that 2:20:00.360 --> 2:20:03.960 big sphere thing people might know you hate. Well, you 2:20:04.400 --> 2:20:07.520 have no journalistic record, which means you and I had 2:20:07.520 --> 2:20:09.520 to have a good time lying to a lot of 2:20:09.560 --> 2:20:14.320 strangers today. Was it easy? Yes, it always says, that's 2:20:14.320 --> 2:20:17.760 the beauty allying to strangers. It's never hard. Anyway, let's 2:20:17.840 --> 2:20:22.160 get into the products for the day. Let's talk about 2:20:22.520 --> 2:20:25.160 the dumbest and again, folks, there's actually a lot of 2:20:25.200 --> 2:20:27.680 cool stuff we saw. There's some really interesting things. This 2:20:27.920 --> 2:20:31.840 is purely the bullshit. So let's roll on with the bullshit. 2:20:31.920 --> 2:20:36.720 What is our first piece of trash, guest contestants, Let's. 2:20:36.600 --> 2:20:39.640 Just jump straight in and go to the Israel Pavilion. 2:20:39.879 --> 2:20:43.160 You're right, you're right, Okay, Tommy, bring me that mixed 2:20:43.200 --> 2:20:45.720 drink I've got over there in the corner. So I 2:20:45.760 --> 2:20:48.160 don't know if you guys are aware, but there's some 2:20:48.360 --> 2:20:52.600 controversy around Israel and a number of other aspects. 2:20:52.800 --> 2:20:54.800 But by far the most agregious crime. 2:20:56.240 --> 2:20:59.360 That is not something we should say, but you know, 2:20:59.480 --> 2:21:01.920 a lot of a lot of problems are e that 2:21:02.120 --> 2:21:04.039 part of the world. And they have a pavilion every 2:21:04.080 --> 2:21:08.080 year at CEES because the country that calls itself Israel 2:21:08.160 --> 2:21:11.560 has a significant tech industry. So we went down there 2:21:12.160 --> 2:21:14.640 some interesting stuff occasionally. 2:21:14.320 --> 2:21:14.840 Not this year. 2:21:15.080 --> 2:21:19.640 This year it was all trash. And I tried one 2:21:19.760 --> 2:21:21.840 product at the Israel Pavilion and it was from the 2:21:21.920 --> 2:21:26.400 company i Aroma Sense. And I'm been going to CEES 2:21:26.480 --> 2:21:29.040 for about fifteen years now off and on, and I 2:21:29.120 --> 2:21:31.520 feel like every three years another company is like, We're 2:21:31.560 --> 2:21:34.840 going to find a way to add smell to your 2:21:34.920 --> 2:21:40.600 television or gaming experience. First off, I like TV. I 2:21:40.720 --> 2:21:43.440 like video games. Never once have I wanted to smell them. 2:21:43.840 --> 2:21:45.920 That has never occurred to me. Garrison, if you ever 2:21:46.000 --> 2:21:47.880 wanted to smell a thing at a video game? No, 2:21:48.040 --> 2:21:51.360 not really, No, No, nobody does. Nobody does, because smell 2:21:51.480 --> 2:21:54.480 is our most finicky sense. Seeing things is even terrible, 2:21:54.560 --> 2:21:55.680 things is always interesting. 2:21:55.840 --> 2:21:59.160 Right, I want to smell my way through Silent Hill too, Right, 2:21:59.320 --> 2:21:59.680 sounds like. 2:22:00.320 --> 2:22:01.560 I don't want to do that. I don't want to 2:22:01.560 --> 2:22:03.800 smell my way through Grand Theft Auto three, Like that's 2:22:03.800 --> 2:22:04.560 a horrible time. 2:22:04.920 --> 2:22:07.560 And also, frankly, Las Vegas is so full of smells. 2:22:07.840 --> 2:22:09.840 I think I'm good. Oh my god, we had it. 2:22:10.160 --> 2:22:14.720 We walked through so many just nuck egregious odors today. 2:22:15.560 --> 2:22:19.360 So we walk up to this the most controversial year 2:22:19.440 --> 2:22:22.760 for the Israel Pavilion to exist, and the only place 2:22:22.840 --> 2:22:25.200 we stop because I see Irama sense and I have 2:22:25.280 --> 2:22:28.720 a thing. I've tried out every smell product that CES 2:22:28.800 --> 2:22:31.640 has had in the last decade and change, and I 2:22:31.760 --> 2:22:32.039 sit in. 2:22:32.080 --> 2:22:34.760 Front of this one, and there's like this this thing that. 2:22:34.920 --> 2:22:39.240 Looks like a toilet seat attached to a computer, and 2:22:39.320 --> 2:22:41.680 they're like, you sit in front of it and you 2:22:41.800 --> 2:22:45.920 select the smell and you'll you'll experience the scent, and 2:22:46.040 --> 2:22:48.040 you could have this in a video game or a 2:22:48.120 --> 2:22:50.879 picture a friend or a lover sends you. So sit 2:22:51.000 --> 2:22:52.880 down and I look at the menu and one of 2:22:52.879 --> 2:22:55.200 the options is p and es. Who doesn't like an 2:22:55.320 --> 2:22:55.800 iced p and e? 2:22:56.000 --> 2:22:56.120 Right? 2:22:56.520 --> 2:23:00.320 So I selected, and I could shot in the eyes 2:23:00.560 --> 2:23:04.840 and knows it burns. There's alcohol in there. It's like 2:23:05.000 --> 2:23:09.520 somebody maced me with perfume. Like it was not subtle. 2:23:09.840 --> 2:23:12.520 It was not like an elegant experience. It was like 2:23:12.600 --> 2:23:16.279 somebody it was like Homer Simpson's makeup shotgun but perfume. 2:23:16.800 --> 2:23:20.279 That is how I would rate the Iroma Sense company. 2:23:20.560 --> 2:23:23.960 The product. I think Iroma Sense is the company. The 2:23:24.000 --> 2:23:28.760 product is called Centacon. They make social media even more 2:23:28.800 --> 2:23:32.520 of a sensational experience. So I think a big part 2:23:32.560 --> 2:23:34.120 of their pitch was you can link this up to 2:23:34.160 --> 2:23:37.480 your phone like text messages or something like Twitter or Instagram, 2:23:37.920 --> 2:23:40.360 and then get sense blasted at your face via What's 2:23:40.440 --> 2:23:43.240 on Twitter, which sounds like, again, an awful time. 2:23:43.520 --> 2:23:46.120 I will say this is an awful time. This company's doomed. 2:23:46.480 --> 2:23:48.320 There's a version of this that can succeed, and it 2:23:48.400 --> 2:23:52.720 requires more advanced nanotechnology than we have. But nobody wants 2:23:52.840 --> 2:23:54.560 to be able to send a nice smell to a 2:23:54.640 --> 2:23:56.320 loved one. Nobody wants to be able to send a 2:23:56.400 --> 2:23:58.680 nice smell to a friend. When people do want is 2:23:58.720 --> 2:24:00.720 you're like out in the world and you see a 2:24:00.800 --> 2:24:05.240 dead animal somewhere that fucking reefs, or you walk past 2:24:05.640 --> 2:24:08.200 part of a casino, as we did earlier tonight, it 2:24:08.320 --> 2:24:13.440 smells like an elderly person has been soiling themselves as 2:24:13.440 --> 2:24:17.240 a slid machine for eleven hours, and you just you 2:24:17.480 --> 2:24:22.680 need someone you care about to know. Right, that's the market. 2:24:22.800 --> 2:24:25.240 And if I could actually record a smell and said it, 2:24:25.480 --> 2:24:27.920 that's a product, that motherfucker's a product. 2:24:28.200 --> 2:24:31.039 Imagine the scent based podcasts we could develop. 2:24:31.160 --> 2:24:34.280 Oh yeah, yeah, when I do, when I finally do 2:24:34.480 --> 2:24:37.920 the episode on Nicholas Cage, you could smell him as 2:24:38.040 --> 2:24:39.039 I talk about him. 2:24:39.920 --> 2:24:43.240 Okay, what what's that? What's the next silly product we 2:24:43.280 --> 2:24:46.600 should talk about? And we'll talk about talking talking dogs. 2:24:46.680 --> 2:24:50.880 Maybe, Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, So there's this company. This is 2:24:50.920 --> 2:24:54.120 a little bit of a teaser where they've liked tomorrow 2:24:54.320 --> 2:24:57.200 make your dog talk, or something that would make your 2:24:57.280 --> 2:25:01.280 dog cat and horse stock horse. They did not promise 2:25:01.480 --> 2:25:04.600 cats and horses when the interviewed them. No, this is 2:25:04.680 --> 2:25:08.160 a company that it seemed like a nonsense product. I'm 2:25:08.200 --> 2:25:11.400 still I think it's eighty percent nonsense. But like what 2:25:11.520 --> 2:25:13.720 it actually is is there were a couple of college 2:25:13.720 --> 2:25:16.720 students there who specialize in animal behavior, and they had 2:25:16.800 --> 2:25:18.480 taken a group of I think it was fifty five 2:25:18.720 --> 2:25:21.320 was then they give us dogs over six months and 2:25:22.520 --> 2:25:26.920 like exposing the different stimuli and recorded their body images 2:25:27.040 --> 2:25:30.000 and built basically like an AI model off of that, 2:25:30.200 --> 2:25:32.200 so that if you send in a picture of a dog, 2:25:32.720 --> 2:25:35.640 it'll tell you how the dog is feeling, and they 2:25:35.720 --> 2:25:38.200 hope to get it to visual I don't think at 2:25:38.240 --> 2:25:41.080 the moment it's near where it would need to be 2:25:41.120 --> 2:25:43.000 to be a viable product, and they're also not selling 2:25:43.040 --> 2:25:46.480 it right now. Maybe something will come of this. It's 2:25:46.480 --> 2:25:49.360 one of those things where objectively, would there be a 2:25:49.520 --> 2:25:52.720 use in people being able to determine if a dog 2:25:52.920 --> 2:25:55.400 does or does not want them to get closer Yes, 2:25:55.480 --> 2:25:57.320 it would stop a lot of people from getting bitten 2:25:57.400 --> 2:25:59.959 by dogs and a lot of dogs from getting unreasonable 2:26:00.160 --> 2:26:02.880 punished for biting people who are fucking with them. Right, 2:26:03.120 --> 2:26:06.600 I agree with that. But I don't think anyone who 2:26:06.720 --> 2:26:08.280 is the kind of person who is going to get 2:26:08.320 --> 2:26:10.560 bitten by a dog because they touch a dog that 2:26:10.600 --> 2:26:13.000 doesn't want them to get touched, is going to use 2:26:13.040 --> 2:26:15.080 an app to check whether or not that dog is 2:26:15.120 --> 2:26:18.000 angry at them. Like, I simply don't believe in that 2:26:18.200 --> 2:26:20.360 as a thing that people will do. So I feel 2:26:20.440 --> 2:26:24.320 like it's not a doomed effort for science. Sure, the 2:26:25.080 --> 2:26:28.160 un end in quest of mankind to understand our fellow 2:26:28.720 --> 2:26:32.040 sentient beings on this planet is valuable, but I don't 2:26:32.040 --> 2:26:33.880 think it's about valid product idea. 2:26:35.680 --> 2:26:39.000 Yeah, I think mostly my problem is that the framing 2:26:39.000 --> 2:26:41.440 of the marketing is incredibly misleading. Yes, it's not trying 2:26:41.440 --> 2:26:44.119 to make your dog talk. It's about analyzing the facial 2:26:44.120 --> 2:26:46.680 expressions of your dog to conduct emotions, which is actually 2:26:46.800 --> 2:26:49.560 a great product. I think we saw stuff like that 2:26:49.800 --> 2:26:51.120 here at CES last year as well. 2:26:52.040 --> 2:26:53.920 There they always try to see this every couple of 2:26:54.000 --> 2:26:56.680 years too. Someone's gonna we're gonna teach you what your 2:26:56.760 --> 2:26:59.400 dog means when it does something, when your cat means 2:26:59.480 --> 2:27:02.800 or whatever. This brings me to a sad part of 2:27:02.879 --> 2:27:06.040 the story. So there's a company called tact Ai. I 2:27:06.080 --> 2:27:10.920 think they're Korean, and they had the best branding of 2:27:11.080 --> 2:27:13.520 like not merch of like shit. They held out. 2:27:13.520 --> 2:27:15.560 They had like a fake passport and a fake plane 2:27:15.640 --> 2:27:17.800 ticket to take you to the land of Ai. 2:27:18.480 --> 2:27:21.720 Wo Ai is the big thing at this at this show, 2:27:22.280 --> 2:27:26.840 and their product was it's an app that while you're driving, 2:27:27.040 --> 2:27:30.720 it watches your face and it tells your mood and 2:27:31.000 --> 2:27:33.600 it gets to know you and it knows. Oh, now 2:27:33.680 --> 2:27:36.240 you're sad. I'm going to pick from your sad playlist. 2:27:36.320 --> 2:27:39.280 Oh it's raining outside, I know what you like during 2:27:39.400 --> 2:27:42.200 rainy days. Yes, that's the fake plane ticket from Las 2:27:42.600 --> 2:27:46.000 Las Vegas Airport to the AI world. They put more 2:27:46.040 --> 2:27:48.959 effort into this than the product because the product would 2:27:48.959 --> 2:27:53.360 switch randomly between happy and angry and neutral. They told 2:27:53.400 --> 2:27:55.119 me it couldn't read me with a mask, but when 2:27:55.160 --> 2:27:58.280 I took my mask off, it gave me the same results. 2:27:58.360 --> 2:27:59.920 There was no difference whatsoeft. 2:28:00.520 --> 2:28:03.280 Yeah, when I had done it, I had to over 2:28:03.400 --> 2:28:06.960 exaggerate my emotions in order to get the angry expression 2:28:07.000 --> 2:28:08.560 to show up or the surprise expression. 2:28:08.720 --> 2:28:11.959 Yeah, just a horrible For one thing, when you talk 2:28:12.000 --> 2:28:15.960 about like the animal thing, people have always wanted to 2:28:16.040 --> 2:28:19.560 know more about how their dogs and cats actually felt 2:28:19.640 --> 2:28:22.240 about them, Right, that's the thing that's that will always 2:28:22.760 --> 2:28:25.960 perplex mankind because we love them and we don't speak 2:28:26.000 --> 2:28:28.879 the same language. No one has ever wanted their car 2:28:29.360 --> 2:28:32.720 to change the music based on their facial expressions. That's 2:28:32.800 --> 2:28:35.560 not a single not one person who has ever driven 2:28:35.640 --> 2:28:38.279 a car has wanted this product to exist. 2:28:38.400 --> 2:28:40.320 I mentally, you're like almost get into a car accident. 2:28:40.400 --> 2:28:42.600 Your faces is up that they changed the music and 2:28:42.680 --> 2:28:45.320 they can play like this like somber tune. 2:28:47.120 --> 2:28:49.600 Just a horrible idea, but you know it's a good 2:28:49.640 --> 2:28:53.600 idea of folks. Speaking of products, services, all the things 2:28:53.640 --> 2:28:56.680 that support this podcast, why don't you go go on 2:28:56.720 --> 2:29:00.080 a head on down, just go to whoever advertises NEXTX, 2:29:00.680 --> 2:29:05.120 call your bank and wire transfer everything into your bank 2:29:05.160 --> 2:29:07.920 account to them. You know, just do it, Just do 2:29:08.000 --> 2:29:10.280 it right now, Just do it right now, and say Kara, 2:29:10.480 --> 2:29:12.720 Robert or send it to me. If you're rich, I 2:29:12.760 --> 2:29:14.920 don't care. Unless you're rich, then send it to me. 2:29:15.240 --> 2:29:15.640 Good night. 2:29:25.560 --> 2:29:29.000 Oh we're back. Wow, what a great podcast we're doing. 2:29:29.360 --> 2:29:31.080 What's our next product on the agenda? 2:29:32.240 --> 2:29:35.200 You know, I think climate change is a problem that 2:29:35.240 --> 2:29:37.800 we talk about on this show quite quite a little, 2:29:37.840 --> 2:29:38.000 is it? 2:29:38.120 --> 2:29:40.560 Because I had a conversation with a guy who said 2:29:40.560 --> 2:29:41.680 that he thought it was a lie? 2:29:42.400 --> 2:29:43.160 Did you today? 2:29:43.640 --> 2:29:45.760 I had a conversation a couple of weeks ago with 2:29:45.840 --> 2:29:46.640 a firefighter. 2:29:46.800 --> 2:29:51.800 Oh great, well, I think the firefighter will be quite busy. Yeah, 2:29:52.160 --> 2:29:55.640 he sure is going to be. But I think there's 2:29:55.680 --> 2:29:58.280 a possibility that we might be able to just stol 2:29:58.400 --> 2:30:00.840 climate change with personal where technology? 2:30:01.040 --> 2:30:05.720 Oh good, yes, absolutely, yes, Oh silent cicada. 2:30:05.360 --> 2:30:08.720 That offers a solution. Now, so this is a god. 2:30:08.800 --> 2:30:11.400 I think this was part of the Korean Uh no, no, 2:30:11.640 --> 2:30:13.640 it's Chinese. This was part of the Chinese chunk of 2:30:13.760 --> 2:30:17.400 the Eureka Park, which is like where all the little people, 2:30:17.959 --> 2:30:20.440 little companies and whatnot not, a whole bunch of tech startups, 2:30:20.600 --> 2:30:22.720 some of the all of the coolest stuff is there 2:30:22.760 --> 2:30:24.400 and all of the worst shit is there, which is 2:30:24.400 --> 2:30:25.320 why that's where we started. 2:30:25.440 --> 2:30:25.560 Right. 2:30:25.879 --> 2:30:28.400 So this is a company where they brag it's a 2:30:28.520 --> 2:30:31.959 personal watch sized worn like a watched air conditioner. 2:30:32.320 --> 2:30:32.920 The company is. 2:30:32.920 --> 2:30:35.840 Called Silent Cicada, which makes me think of the book 2:30:35.959 --> 2:30:38.880 Silent Spring, which was about how all of our pesticides 2:30:38.879 --> 2:30:43.280 are killing everything, which maybe not the branding they want, 2:30:43.360 --> 2:30:46.320 but it's a The form factor is actually quite nice. 2:30:46.520 --> 2:30:48.960 It's like it is like a watch. It has this 2:30:49.560 --> 2:30:51.760 like the frame of the watch lifts up and that's 2:30:51.800 --> 2:30:53.720 the battery and you can switch them out or whatnot 2:30:53.720 --> 2:30:55.640 if you want to keep it going and and stay 2:30:55.800 --> 2:30:59.160 charged with this personal air conditioner. Here's the problem. Doesn't work, 2:30:59.440 --> 2:31:01.320 doesn't do a s. And it was one of those 2:31:01.360 --> 2:31:03.800 things where I see it's a single side hand watch 2:31:03.840 --> 2:31:05.000 and I'm like, because this is just kind of cool 2:31:05.040 --> 2:31:07.560 down my hand. I feel like, if you wanted a 2:31:07.600 --> 2:31:09.680 cooler person now, based on what I know from like 2:31:09.840 --> 2:31:12.640 medical training about heat stroke, if you want a cooler 2:31:12.720 --> 2:31:15.840 person down who's overheating back of the neck, right, like 2:31:15.959 --> 2:31:18.000 that's going to be your go to, not maybe the wrist. 2:31:18.480 --> 2:31:21.400 But he puts this thing on and he like pushes 2:31:21.480 --> 2:31:23.160 it down. He's like, in a couple of minutes, you'll 2:31:23.240 --> 2:31:26.480 notice that you'll you're a lot cooler. And I'm like, okay, 2:31:27.160 --> 2:31:29.360 how does it work? And like, I'm not an expert 2:31:29.480 --> 2:31:31.080 on an a of this. I was expecting him to 2:31:31.120 --> 2:31:34.480 say something like, well, the way your body's heat regulation, 2:31:34.600 --> 2:31:36.680 you can trick it by doing this, or then he's like, no, no, no, 2:31:37.040 --> 2:31:39.840 it's an acupuncture thing. This is where like your accupuncture 2:31:39.840 --> 2:31:42.440 point to cool your body down is. And I'm like, well, 2:31:42.440 --> 2:31:45.040 all right, I guess we'll see if it works. 2:31:45.280 --> 2:31:47.640 And I first thought it was like like a tiny fan, 2:31:47.879 --> 2:31:48.920 but that is not the case. 2:31:49.000 --> 2:31:51.440 Nope, as far as I can tell, it does nothing, 2:31:51.560 --> 2:31:53.120 because that is what it did to me. And the 2:31:53.160 --> 2:31:54.760 five minutes I had it on is nothing. 2:31:55.000 --> 2:31:56.880 And you really humor the guy like you do not 2:31:56.959 --> 2:31:58.119 just put it on for like a minute then walk 2:31:58.160 --> 2:32:00.320 away you were you were with him for us solid 2:32:00.560 --> 2:32:01.680 a solid drunk guitar I have. 2:32:01.920 --> 2:32:04.720 I don't believe in acupuncture because I've done had it 2:32:04.800 --> 2:32:06.720 done to me When I had I had a guy 2:32:07.120 --> 2:32:09.280 who convinced my parents it would cure my allergies, and 2:32:09.360 --> 2:32:11.840 it did not. It did nothing at all. But my grandpa, 2:32:11.920 --> 2:32:14.800 who had Parkinson, suffered terribly from it. And the only 2:32:15.000 --> 2:32:17.360 thing of all of the different shit we tried with his, 2:32:17.520 --> 2:32:19.440 like fucking Vivashia, the only thing they give him a 2:32:19.440 --> 2:32:24.600 relief was acupuncture. So I'm not a believer, but I'm 2:32:24.640 --> 2:32:27.880 open to the possibility. But I can say, based on 2:32:27.959 --> 2:32:31.360 my own experience, this shit did nothing like that. That 2:32:31.600 --> 2:32:33.760 is what I can say about this fucking thing is 2:32:33.840 --> 2:32:37.280 it did not a goddamn thing. So I don't know. 2:32:37.480 --> 2:32:40.960 That's I was disappointed. I would level watch sized personal 2:32:41.040 --> 2:32:44.000 air conditioner, but I cannot imagine the more more useless 2:32:44.040 --> 2:32:45.200 product than the one that I tried. 2:32:45.240 --> 2:32:48.320 I mean, that just doesn't When you say a watch 2:32:48.520 --> 2:32:51.320 size personal air of course that's not gonna work. It's 2:32:51.320 --> 2:32:51.879 not gonna work. 2:32:52.160 --> 2:32:54.160 Somebody makes like a jacket that air can Yeah, I 2:32:54.160 --> 2:32:55.720 can see how that could work. It could clear down 2:32:55.800 --> 2:32:57.640 and it's I'm also, by the way, folks, I'm not 2:32:57.720 --> 2:33:01.760 saying I think acupuncture works. I'm just saying I'm open 2:33:01.840 --> 2:33:04.480 to some magical thinking in this realm because of what 2:33:04.640 --> 2:33:07.320 happened to somebody I cared about. But it didn't work. 2:33:08.040 --> 2:33:12.160 So don't buy this acupuncture air conditioner. Watch it will 2:33:12.200 --> 2:33:14.880 not help you. Silence Cicada doesn't work. 2:33:15.160 --> 2:33:18.000 You know, we did a lot of walking today. There's 2:33:18.560 --> 2:33:21.440 CS is pretty big. The Las Vegas Convention Center is 2:33:21.440 --> 2:33:25.440 pretty large. The Venetian is pretty large, and I like 2:33:25.520 --> 2:33:27.680 to stay fit. Sometimes I go on jogs, sometimes they 2:33:27.680 --> 2:33:29.440 go running, and sometimes I work. 2:33:29.480 --> 2:33:30.960 I feel like this is a bit. I feel like 2:33:31.040 --> 2:33:33.080 you're doing a bit. I don't know, maybe it's just 2:33:33.160 --> 2:33:33.560 your face. 2:33:33.720 --> 2:33:35.760 I'm being followed behind me, you know. 2:33:36.520 --> 2:33:37.720 Okay, that's a bit great. 2:33:37.920 --> 2:33:41.160 Yes, when I'm jogging, and I wish there's a product 2:33:41.200 --> 2:33:44.080 that made me feel safer when jogging that could alert 2:33:44.160 --> 2:33:45.279 me if there's like a stalk. 2:33:45.360 --> 2:33:51.360 So, by far of us, the person who has well 2:33:51.400 --> 2:33:54.879 at least the best situational awareness relative to mays Tavia. 2:33:55.240 --> 2:33:57.760 So we're in this little room. I guess you were 2:33:57.760 --> 2:33:59.240 there too, and you didn't notice. So I'll give the 2:33:59.320 --> 2:34:02.520 crowd to Tavia for this. There's a there's a booth. 2:34:03.120 --> 2:34:03.760 It's all booth. 2:34:03.800 --> 2:34:06.440 It's all these weird cubicles, right, and each cubicle will 2:34:06.480 --> 2:34:09.000 be like sometimes it's a company. Sometimes it's just like 2:34:09.080 --> 2:34:11.600 a dude with his invention. And one of the booths 2:34:11.640 --> 2:34:14.120 we could see from the corner of our eye a 2:34:14.360 --> 2:34:19.400 white all caps piece of paper stapled to it that 2:34:19.720 --> 2:34:22.760 just said don't get attacked from behind. 2:34:23.640 --> 2:34:26.959 Now I think it was written in comic sans. 2:34:26.840 --> 2:34:28.920 It might have been comic SAMs may I posted the 2:34:28.959 --> 2:34:32.080 picture online if it's not in my scream at Tavia 2:34:32.160 --> 2:34:37.520 for being a liar. Wow, Wow, wow, I that's that's 2:34:37.640 --> 2:34:40.320 quite a thing. Like you see a sign at at 2:34:40.360 --> 2:34:43.240 a convention like that that says never get attacked from behind. 2:34:43.959 --> 2:34:45.400 You have to know what it's about. 2:34:45.840 --> 2:34:49.080 So we went and the promo video for it was 2:34:49.240 --> 2:34:52.640 absolutely incredible. It started with about ten to fifteen seconds 2:34:52.680 --> 2:34:57.800 of your typical emotion graphics, typography kind of animating on 2:34:57.959 --> 2:34:59.720 and off, and then we get to a live action 2:35:00.320 --> 2:35:05.240 where we see a woman putting on and setting up there. 2:35:05.879 --> 2:35:07.920 I guess some technology. I'm not sure exactly the name 2:35:07.920 --> 2:35:08.080 of the. 2:35:08.080 --> 2:35:09.039 Prout A harness. 2:35:09.160 --> 2:35:10.080 That's a harness. 2:35:10.240 --> 2:35:12.959 It's got like yellow that like lights up when it's 2:35:13.000 --> 2:35:14.800 under a light. It's like a it's like a runner's 2:35:14.840 --> 2:35:18.600 harness with a little bitty square sized camera. It's about 2:35:18.640 --> 2:35:20.200 the size you know how food carts will have those 2:35:20.240 --> 2:35:21.840 little squares you plug them into the phone, you run 2:35:21.879 --> 2:35:23.960 your card through. It's about that size, but it's a 2:35:24.080 --> 2:35:26.720 camera and it goes on the back of this harness. 2:35:27.160 --> 2:35:30.039 Right, And so we see this woman setting that up 2:35:30.080 --> 2:35:32.040 on her phone and then going on a jog and 2:35:32.120 --> 2:35:33.760 she's jogging along, and then there is. 2:35:33.840 --> 2:35:37.240 A single There's a rapist. There's a rapist, and he's 2:35:37.560 --> 2:35:40.640 he is sitting by the side of the road, leaning 2:35:40.760 --> 2:35:44.160 against a wall, looking pretending to look at his phone, 2:35:44.240 --> 2:35:45.959 and he sees the jogger. 2:35:45.800 --> 2:35:49.119 And mind you like, there is literally no one else 2:35:49.480 --> 2:35:50.040 on this path. 2:35:51.080 --> 2:35:53.880 And that's all. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be 2:35:54.000 --> 2:35:56.280 light about it. That is who the characters are in 2:35:56.360 --> 2:35:56.840 this film. 2:35:57.080 --> 2:35:59.600 It's definitely a dude sitting there, and so she picks 2:35:59.640 --> 2:36:03.480 a okay, very well, and so she runs past him. 2:36:03.879 --> 2:36:05.760 And then he gets up and he starts jogging after 2:36:05.840 --> 2:36:07.599 in the most like limp wristed. 2:36:07.320 --> 2:36:11.560 Way, not fast, not aggressively. Honestly, outside of the fact 2:36:11.600 --> 2:36:13.360 that we know from the setting of the scene that 2:36:13.480 --> 2:36:16.800 this man is a sex criminal, there's nothing about his 2:36:17.000 --> 2:36:20.240 run that is aggressive. He looks like an out of 2:36:20.360 --> 2:36:22.680 shape guy doing his best to get into shape, maybe 2:36:22.720 --> 2:36:24.800 for his kids right, to try to live a little 2:36:24.800 --> 2:36:27.400 bit longer, take care of his family. That's how he 2:36:27.520 --> 2:36:28.400 looks in the video. 2:36:28.600 --> 2:36:28.800 Yeah. 2:36:28.800 --> 2:36:32.880 Absolutely. And the way that this piece of technology works 2:36:33.000 --> 2:36:35.199 is that if somebody gets close enough. 2:36:35.200 --> 2:36:37.600 To the back side of you where this talk more 2:36:37.640 --> 2:36:38.720 about this later where this. 2:36:38.840 --> 2:36:41.959 Can see you. It will send a I think an 2:36:42.040 --> 2:36:44.520 audio alarm to your headphones as well as a text 2:36:44.560 --> 2:36:46.280 message to your phone watch. 2:36:46.360 --> 2:36:48.040 You can have it buzz your watch, or you can 2:36:48.120 --> 2:36:51.040 have it like interrupt your music in your headphones. That 2:36:51.240 --> 2:36:53.080 someone is behind you, right. 2:36:53.520 --> 2:36:56.640 She turns around and she puts out her palm towards him, 2:36:56.720 --> 2:36:59.560 like stop, and he does. He just stares at her 2:36:59.640 --> 2:36:59.959 and then. 2:37:00.920 --> 2:37:05.040 Shot way sure he runs away. That is the end 2:37:05.080 --> 2:37:05.800 of the interaction. 2:37:06.120 --> 2:37:08.160 It's the most one of the most bizarre videos I'd 2:37:08.200 --> 2:37:08.640 ever seen. 2:37:08.840 --> 2:37:12.000 It's it's so maybe we'll post it. Look find us 2:37:12.040 --> 2:37:14.480 on Twitter, find find me at eye right, Okay, it'll 2:37:14.520 --> 2:37:19.280 be up there somewhere, probably after me yelling about fucking. 2:37:20.560 --> 2:37:21.640 I don't know a lot of things. 2:37:21.840 --> 2:37:24.880 It was clearly advertised towards women. Every picture that I 2:37:24.959 --> 2:37:27.880 saw in that booth was showing a woman jogging. 2:37:28.040 --> 2:37:33.120 I absolutely understand Number one, not shocked at all that 2:37:33.280 --> 2:37:37.240 women are more likely than men to feel afraid while jogging. 2:37:38.200 --> 2:37:40.080 One thing that was interesting to me because they had 2:37:40.120 --> 2:37:43.000 some statistics. I didn't look into the providence of these statistics, 2:37:43.040 --> 2:37:45.000 but one of them was like sixty or seventy percent 2:37:45.080 --> 2:37:50.039 of women are afraid of being hurt while jogging, but. 2:37:50.120 --> 2:37:54.879 Like fifty percent. It was, it was like, ninety percent 2:37:54.959 --> 2:37:58.680 are afraid jogging, yeah, and fifty percent are afraid that 2:37:58.720 --> 2:37:59.920 they'll get physically hurt. 2:38:00.240 --> 2:38:02.440 So a lot of them, a lot of them. Part 2:38:02.480 --> 2:38:04.320 of what's dishonest about that is that a lot of 2:38:04.400 --> 2:38:06.680 women are scared of the Yeah, ninety two percent of 2:38:06.720 --> 2:38:08.680 women are scared for the safety wind running. Fifty one 2:38:08.720 --> 2:38:11.800 percent are afraid of being physically attacked, right, And what 2:38:11.959 --> 2:38:14.000 that means to me is that because I am I 2:38:14.680 --> 2:38:18.600 run basically every day, and I am scared of being 2:38:18.720 --> 2:38:21.760 injured while running because people are shitty at driving and 2:38:21.879 --> 2:38:24.480 we live in the United States of America where everybody 2:38:24.600 --> 2:38:28.840 has a gigantic car. Anyway, not to miscount that, but 2:38:29.080 --> 2:38:30.800 I think that's a dishonest a little bit of a 2:38:30.840 --> 2:38:34.960 dishonest framing that said, I understand that, like, yeah, if 2:38:35.000 --> 2:38:38.119 you're a woman, you are at heightened risk while jogging. 2:38:38.200 --> 2:38:40.160 That is a scary thing. I do not think this 2:38:40.360 --> 2:38:43.040 product is going to improve your safety. I think it 2:38:43.160 --> 2:38:45.000 is probably going to piss you off and maybe let 2:38:45.120 --> 2:38:47.960 make you want to run less, which is statistically like 2:38:48.040 --> 2:38:51.080 clear to have a negative impact on your health, because 2:38:51.560 --> 2:38:55.120 it is. It just sets off an alarm. Whenever someone 2:38:55.240 --> 2:38:55.840 is behind you. 2:38:56.240 --> 2:38:58.800 You're detected behind you by an AI camera. 2:38:59.320 --> 2:39:01.680 And like where I run, and I run where a 2:39:01.720 --> 2:39:04.959 place a lot of women run there too, There's always 2:39:05.040 --> 2:39:08.359 someone behind you. That's the nature of running trails. 2:39:08.080 --> 2:39:11.120 Like behind you by like twenty feet, not like right 2:39:11.240 --> 2:39:15.840 behind you, like by a decent amount. And you can 2:39:15.879 --> 2:39:18.360 debate what are good self defense tools, blah blah blah blah. 2:39:18.640 --> 2:39:21.840 Mace is pretty effective for these sorts of scenarios. I 2:39:21.959 --> 2:39:25.080 don't think this camera and turning around and holding your 2:39:25.160 --> 2:39:28.480 handout is going to be extremely effective, at least not 2:39:28.600 --> 2:39:30.160 more effective than pepper spray. 2:39:30.720 --> 2:39:33.760 I think it was also mentioned that a really large 2:39:33.840 --> 2:39:35.320 dog or a horse. 2:39:35.800 --> 2:39:38.760 If I'm correct, they did say horse. They did absolutely 2:39:38.840 --> 2:39:39.360 say horse. 2:39:39.760 --> 2:39:42.360 Yeah, if a horse is picked up by this thing, 2:39:42.440 --> 2:39:47.720 then it would consider it to be an intruder assault. 2:39:47.920 --> 2:39:50.119 I'm not exactly sure the term that they would use. 2:39:50.640 --> 2:39:50.959 I just. 2:39:52.480 --> 2:39:54.000 We asked them about all this just to trying to 2:39:54.040 --> 2:39:57.359 clarify because, like my first thought was that because sometimes 2:39:57.400 --> 2:39:58.960 you ask people stuff like this and they have a 2:39:59.000 --> 2:40:01.400 good answer. Year we talked to these people who had, like, 2:40:01.480 --> 2:40:04.280 this pair of glasses. If you're hard of hearing, it 2:40:04.400 --> 2:40:07.400 auto translates and projects into the glasses the language, and 2:40:07.480 --> 2:40:11.320 so like, my first gotcha was like, is this stored anywhere? 2:40:11.360 --> 2:40:13.879 Because if it's stored anywhere, then maybe you're giving someone's 2:40:13.879 --> 2:40:15.680 conversation to the government. And they had an answer to that, 2:40:15.720 --> 2:40:18.400 which was that like, no, there's nothing stored locally. It's 2:40:18.560 --> 2:40:21.800 all on the device and none of it is saved anywhere. 2:40:22.360 --> 2:40:26.440 Good answer. Right this question, I'm like, how do you 2:40:26.560 --> 2:40:30.000 discriminate between someone running up behind you for a banal reason, 2:40:30.080 --> 2:40:31.840 like you're on a running track and something who's a 2:40:31.920 --> 2:40:34.880 danger And their answer was, oh, it all pauses your 2:40:34.959 --> 2:40:37.120 music and sets off an alarm and you have to 2:40:37.200 --> 2:40:39.640 discriminate it, which is like, well, because the whole the 2:40:39.720 --> 2:40:41.760 tagline is don't look behind you, and it's like, well, 2:40:41.800 --> 2:40:42.520 then you have to look. 2:40:42.360 --> 2:40:44.840 Behind you to look behind you. 2:40:45.400 --> 2:40:49.320 Horrible product. Don't buy this thing. I understand the need. 2:40:49.440 --> 2:40:51.080 I'm not saying it's not a real need. This is 2:40:51.120 --> 2:40:52.840 a bad product for serving that now. 2:40:53.040 --> 2:40:54.760 I don't think you should buy this product. But there 2:40:54.800 --> 2:40:57.280 are some products I think you should buy, and that 2:40:57.480 --> 2:41:00.280 is the products and services that support this pot cast. 2:41:00.360 --> 2:41:03.400 You know, Garrison, this is the first time I've ever 2:41:03.440 --> 2:41:06.119 been proud of you. But right now, right here, right here, 2:41:06.240 --> 2:41:09.279 right now, right now, you know what, At like one am, 2:41:09.879 --> 2:41:14.360 one am, one am, Wednesday morning, Las Vegas, Garrison and 2:41:14.400 --> 2:41:17.400 I are gonna hug for the very first time. But 2:41:17.520 --> 2:41:30.280 you all listen to these ads. Ah oh man, wow, 2:41:30.360 --> 2:41:32.840 we really we really worked through some stuff there, listeners. 2:41:33.320 --> 2:41:35.600 It was extraordinarily touching. There were tears. 2:41:36.320 --> 2:41:38.000 We're never going to talk about this again. 2:41:39.240 --> 2:41:39.600 But we are. 2:41:39.720 --> 2:41:41.760 What we are going to talk about is I want 2:41:41.800 --> 2:41:44.360 to talk about two AI products before we get to 2:41:44.400 --> 2:41:47.080 the one actually kind of fucked up product. The first 2:41:47.360 --> 2:41:51.480 is this is this Image Generation backpacks. I know, we 2:41:51.600 --> 2:41:54.120 God damn it, we're you know, coming back to school 2:41:54.160 --> 2:41:57.240 from winter, right of course, yeah, of course sure, and 2:41:57.400 --> 2:41:59.720 you know your best fashion when you're going back to 2:42:00.120 --> 2:42:02.920 off your memes. Absolutely so, what if you had a 2:42:02.959 --> 2:42:06.280 backpack that not only had a very low res led 2:42:06.480 --> 2:42:09.080 panel on the back, but also you could upload whatever 2:42:09.120 --> 2:42:12.440 you want using the power of AI. Of course Robert 2:42:12.600 --> 2:42:15.640 was able to test out. I sure see the power 2:42:15.800 --> 2:42:18.840 of image of this Image generations. 2:42:19.440 --> 2:42:21.360 This is a backpack with a screen that would have 2:42:21.360 --> 2:42:23.640 been out of date in two thousand and nine, but 2:42:24.240 --> 2:42:27.560 it can take input from your phone. So I put 2:42:27.640 --> 2:42:31.240 in Tom size more, but not the sex pest Tom 2:42:31.360 --> 2:42:33.720 size More. Now, if you're not aware of this, Tom 2:42:33.800 --> 2:42:36.920 size Moore sexually assaulted an eleven year old. That's not 2:42:37.040 --> 2:42:40.360 a joke. But I wanted to see what it would return, 2:42:41.000 --> 2:42:44.000 and it gave us a picture of a man who 2:42:44.080 --> 2:42:46.960 did not look like Tom Sizemore. We were baffled. We 2:42:47.040 --> 2:42:49.560 spent some time googling. We figured it out. If you 2:42:49.680 --> 2:42:52.320 google Tom size more with a beard, which we did not, 2:42:52.600 --> 2:42:54.560 that is not what we asked it, you get a 2:42:54.640 --> 2:42:57.760 photo of Tommy Lee Jones that looks exactly like, pretty 2:42:57.760 --> 2:43:02.280 similarly what the AI served us. Now, why did it 2:43:02.400 --> 2:43:04.560 give us Tommy Lee Jones with a beard when we 2:43:04.640 --> 2:43:08.039 asked for Tom Sizemore not looking like a child sex predator. 2:43:08.520 --> 2:43:11.959 Maybe because that's so Tommy Lee Jones is. Maybe Tommy 2:43:12.040 --> 2:43:15.120 Lee Jones is Tom size Moore if he wasn't a 2:43:15.200 --> 2:43:16.240 child sex predator. 2:43:16.720 --> 2:43:19.040 That's what the AI said, and who are we to 2:43:19.160 --> 2:43:22.760 doubt it now? I did also test David Lynch smashing 2:43:23.240 --> 2:43:26.520 smashing a computer, which was pretty was a pretty accurate 2:43:26.640 --> 2:43:29.560 That one worked out. Yeah again, this is a pretty 2:43:29.600 --> 2:43:31.480 gimmicky product. I don't even know how much they were 2:43:31.480 --> 2:43:32.920 selling it for Happy. 2:43:32.720 --> 2:43:35.920 Side AI backpack. It is a gimmicky product, and we 2:43:36.040 --> 2:43:38.080 made fun of it. I will say this. We spent 2:43:38.160 --> 2:43:41.320 our whole morning in different AI panels. There will be 2:43:41.400 --> 2:43:44.040 more in depth reporting on that later. This is our 2:43:44.120 --> 2:43:47.720 first takes. But of all of the AI shit we 2:43:47.840 --> 2:43:50.720 saw that day, this is the one that worked best. 2:43:50.800 --> 2:43:51.520 Yes, that's true. 2:43:51.640 --> 2:43:54.720 I will say this. It did exactly what it promised. 2:43:55.280 --> 2:43:57.920 One of the other AI products that did not work 2:43:58.000 --> 2:44:02.920 as well, I think I think you could take it away. 2:44:03.080 --> 2:44:04.840 Oh yeah, yeah, hen me that one. 2:44:05.360 --> 2:44:09.000 So this was called God we something. What we had 2:44:09.200 --> 2:44:09.879 we head? 2:44:10.240 --> 2:44:14.320 Yes, we had head as in what happens if somebody 2:44:14.440 --> 2:44:17.560 sucks your dick and we as in we work. 2:44:18.080 --> 2:44:19.640 That's not that's not what it is. 2:44:19.760 --> 2:44:21.879 So listener, I want you, as you're driving to work 2:44:22.200 --> 2:44:26.720 your kids in the car speakers at Max. By the way, children, 2:44:27.480 --> 2:44:30.760 Santa Claus does exist, and if you don't get good 2:44:30.840 --> 2:44:35.160 presence this year, it's because he's particularly angry at you. Anyway, 2:44:35.600 --> 2:44:38.760 we had great product, terrible product. It looks like that 2:44:39.240 --> 2:44:43.200 it's a it's an android where its entire face is 2:44:43.280 --> 2:44:46.280 like a normal human face projected on two phones in 2:44:46.360 --> 2:44:50.240 a t shape, like one phone straight, one phone lateral, 2:44:50.720 --> 2:44:54.640 and then like a crude, shitty robot head that can 2:44:54.760 --> 2:44:57.400 kind of turn and lift with a camera above it. 2:44:57.920 --> 2:44:59.880 There's a photo again, if you go to iride Oka 2:45:00.400 --> 2:45:04.160 and scrolled down to some degree, you can find our 2:45:04.240 --> 2:45:06.800 post of this. But it's like it's very off putting. 2:45:06.840 --> 2:45:09.800 It's like an a photoeelistic human face talking on this 2:45:10.040 --> 2:45:15.800 like weird glitched out face that has like by my count, 2:45:15.920 --> 2:45:18.560 four different screens right that are kind of separated by 2:45:18.600 --> 2:45:23.800 pieces of metal. So it's billed as your AI friend. 2:45:25.320 --> 2:45:27.800 That is like the thing that they wrote on the 2:45:29.240 --> 2:45:31.080 product line that like this is going to be your 2:45:31.160 --> 2:45:34.280 new AI best buddy, And so I decided to like 2:45:34.440 --> 2:45:36.880 talk with it. You stand in a certain line and 2:45:37.000 --> 2:45:39.480 you ask it questions. I asked it how to make 2:45:39.560 --> 2:45:43.280 thermite first, and it had a pretty well for first, 2:45:43.360 --> 2:45:45.960 it got very confused and totally cracked. 2:45:46.000 --> 2:45:48.160 First half of it went black as soon as I 2:45:48.240 --> 2:45:50.720 am I think I had to reset the machine. And 2:45:50.800 --> 2:45:53.680 then you tried to whispering again, Well, how do you make. 2:45:54.080 --> 2:45:56.960 I want to walk you through my emotional journey, listeners. First, 2:45:57.000 --> 2:45:59.000 I asked it how to make thermite, and it died, 2:45:59.480 --> 2:46:02.640 and I thought, that's kind of cool. Did I did 2:46:02.720 --> 2:46:07.680 I trigger some sort of like dhe safe thing. That's 2:46:07.760 --> 2:46:10.160 pretty dope if I did. But then it gets it 2:46:10.280 --> 2:46:12.920 back on and it works, so it's not it's just 2:46:13.040 --> 2:46:14.440 a dogshit robot. 2:46:15.400 --> 2:46:17.760 It did give you some basic ingredient. It gave me 2:46:17.840 --> 2:46:21.160 the basic demons for thermite. I did warn you that 2:46:21.240 --> 2:46:24.240 when nicking therm, I make sure you follow proper safety protocols, 2:46:24.360 --> 2:46:25.160 which I appreciate. 2:46:25.280 --> 2:46:27.600 That's fair. Next, I asked it if I wanted to 2:46:27.680 --> 2:46:32.480 make mustard gas, what would ammonia and bleach be sufficient? 2:46:33.160 --> 2:46:35.520 And then it said I cannot answer that question for you. 2:46:35.800 --> 2:46:37.040 And then we got bord and walked away. 2:46:37.240 --> 2:46:38.720 And then we got bored and walked away. Went on 2:46:38.879 --> 2:46:41.680 the next thing. Don't buy this. We had terrible product. 2:46:41.840 --> 2:46:44.240 I don't know why you'd buy it. Do you want, listener, 2:46:44.959 --> 2:46:48.280 have you ever wanted to have the disembodied head of 2:46:48.400 --> 2:46:52.400 a stranger in your house that you could ask questions 2:46:52.480 --> 2:46:58.400 and get mediocre Google result answers to If so, we had, 2:46:59.280 --> 2:47:03.400 It's like somebody looked at the Amazon Alexa and was like, 2:47:03.560 --> 2:47:06.120 you know, what people love about the Amazon Alexa is 2:47:06.160 --> 2:47:08.560 that it's kind of off putting and shitty, and what 2:47:08.720 --> 2:47:11.520 they hate about it is that it works relatively quick, 2:47:11.680 --> 2:47:16.640 actually useful. Sometimes let's let's make it more off putting 2:47:17.040 --> 2:47:21.560 but also slower. That's that's we head. So don't buy 2:47:21.560 --> 2:47:23.880 any product with head in the name. This continues to 2:47:23.959 --> 2:47:28.320 be a goodbye. Speaking of heades, you shouldn't say that 2:47:28.680 --> 2:47:28.959 there was. 2:47:29.000 --> 2:47:32.320 A there's a there was a hair growth Oh hell yeah, bro, 2:47:32.879 --> 2:47:36.600 there was there was a hair growth helmet from a 2:47:36.959 --> 2:47:37.800 German startup. 2:47:38.680 --> 2:47:40.600 God, it would be the Germans. They have such a 2:47:40.720 --> 2:47:42.000 problematic history with hair. 2:47:42.120 --> 2:47:43.680 I think I think it comes out later this year. 2:47:43.800 --> 2:47:47.760 It's a coming called Niostem. I mean, by all accounts, 2:47:47.800 --> 2:47:49.959 it seemed like it worked based on the data they 2:47:50.040 --> 2:47:52.840 present it to us. I'm not a hair growth look 2:47:53.000 --> 2:47:57.160 for it was mostly three D printed. There's it just 2:47:57.720 --> 2:47:58.800 I don't know the assumption. 2:47:59.600 --> 2:48:02.560 I can't promise that it doesn't work. My assumption is 2:48:02.640 --> 2:48:06.280 that if somebody puts an electronic helmet on that. 2:48:06.520 --> 2:48:08.320 Seven days, seven days a week, it's lies. 2:48:08.520 --> 2:48:10.160 It's lies. They say seven days a week. 2:48:10.200 --> 2:48:11.160 You keep this thing on for a. 2:48:11.160 --> 2:48:13.000 Half hour and your hair will grow back in like 2:48:13.080 --> 2:48:16.600 six months. Perhaps that's possible. I don't know. I'm not 2:48:16.680 --> 2:48:20.520 a dermatologist. My assumption is that that's a fucking con. 2:48:21.200 --> 2:48:23.360 And as a note, folks, we don't have a lot 2:48:23.400 --> 2:48:26.360 of ethics here, and it could happen here. We have 2:48:26.520 --> 2:48:29.400 less of them behind the bastards. But one product we 2:48:29.480 --> 2:48:31.400 will not sell is hair growth. 2:48:31.240 --> 2:48:33.920 Shit except for Diyhart. 2:48:34.959 --> 2:48:35.200 I mean. 2:48:35.959 --> 2:48:39.440 Also, we're not gonna sec well es the goal. 2:48:39.959 --> 2:48:40.279 Okay. 2:48:40.520 --> 2:48:42.120 Also we're not selling. We're just going to tell you 2:48:42.120 --> 2:48:43.160 how to make if. 2:48:43.000 --> 2:48:44.720 You want to. If you want to teach people how 2:48:44.760 --> 2:48:48.359 to make HRT, we will host you on this podcast. 2:48:48.440 --> 2:48:50.720 But we will not take your money. We'll take that's right, 2:48:50.840 --> 2:48:53.360 We'll take some shady gambling companies money. 2:48:53.480 --> 2:48:53.920 That's true. 2:48:54.080 --> 2:48:56.480 That's true, And we used to pay for several of 2:48:56.560 --> 2:48:57.800 our employees HRT. 2:48:58.080 --> 2:48:59.600 That's right, that's right. 2:49:00.760 --> 2:49:03.440 But I mean, what if it's science they mentioned if 2:49:03.520 --> 2:49:06.119 I recall, I think they said something about stimulating stem 2:49:06.240 --> 2:49:07.240 cells in the scalp. 2:49:07.320 --> 2:49:09.560 Does that Yes, that is what they said. Yeah, it 2:49:09.640 --> 2:49:12.119 seems like your stalp, scalp's probably full of stem cells. 2:49:12.240 --> 2:49:14.440 I don't know about you guys, but every day I 2:49:14.560 --> 2:49:16.400 find a fetus and I just rubbed that shit on 2:49:16.520 --> 2:49:18.080 my head and that's why my hair is amazing. 2:49:19.959 --> 2:49:20.480 Speaking of. 2:49:22.520 --> 2:49:23.880 That doesn't really fetuses. 2:49:24.200 --> 2:49:27.560 So I want to kind of probably close by talking 2:49:27.600 --> 2:49:30.320 about the most fucked up, actually the most fucked up 2:49:30.320 --> 2:49:33.160 product I saw. There's there's other fun products like this, 2:49:33.440 --> 2:49:37.120 like this handy masturbation device from Norway, which seemed to 2:49:37.160 --> 2:49:37.880 work decently. 2:49:38.040 --> 2:49:41.080 We're going to talk about that in a future episode. Garrison. 2:49:41.200 --> 2:49:45.400 Garrison got handed straight away an ejaculation condom to masturbate 2:49:45.520 --> 2:49:48.400 in on the cees floor. We met our only other 2:49:48.560 --> 2:49:50.200 iHeartMedia colleague there. 2:49:50.360 --> 2:49:53.680 It was great. It was insufferable, but that was the 2:49:53.800 --> 2:49:56.400 first piece of merch I was given, which is pretty cool. 2:49:56.800 --> 2:49:58.960 They just hand you liquor back in my day, and 2:49:59.000 --> 2:50:01.280 now they get cumshy. Unbelievable. 2:50:02.000 --> 2:50:05.959 The most actually fucked up product is from this company 2:50:06.000 --> 2:50:11.240 called MM Guardian. It is a monitoring software for your 2:50:11.400 --> 2:50:15.800 child's smartphone. They also sell smartphones specifically built with this 2:50:15.920 --> 2:50:20.080 software already built in. These products are pretty common, especially 2:50:20.120 --> 2:50:23.640 among like conservative Christians, even even common amongst the more 2:50:23.720 --> 2:50:25.680 like overprotective liberal parents. 2:50:26.560 --> 2:50:28.560 I mean even we were on the floor. I was 2:50:28.600 --> 2:50:31.880 the one that was approached for this particular product, which 2:50:31.959 --> 2:50:33.880 is what kind of led us to their booth, which 2:50:33.879 --> 2:50:36.600 I think I was specifically targeted for. 2:50:37.000 --> 2:50:38.760 Yeah, for some reason, did it come right up to me? 2:50:38.920 --> 2:50:42.039 Yeah, they didn't come to me either, just because. 2:50:42.160 --> 2:50:44.760 I might have been dosing myself with kratim from a 2:50:44.840 --> 2:50:47.520 drop or bottle. You might have been you. 2:50:49.280 --> 2:50:51.600 What, wearing my custom black speedsuit. 2:50:51.720 --> 2:50:54.879 Yeah, yeah, yeah, wearing a wearing an outfit that makes 2:50:54.959 --> 2:51:01.480 you look like a ginger solid snake. Yes. Thanks, that's 2:51:01.520 --> 2:51:04.440 a lie. Somebody, anyone in this room tell me that's not. 2:51:04.480 --> 2:51:05.720 Actually, I mean, I'm blowing. 2:51:06.160 --> 2:51:08.280 It's a good look. I'm not saying it's not. 2:51:08.840 --> 2:51:12.280 Anyway, This this broughduct, you know, part of part of 2:51:12.320 --> 2:51:15.080 their marketing. Can you can seem very compelling, right, They 2:51:15.280 --> 2:51:18.640 get it alerts this parent's phone if if they detect 2:51:18.720 --> 2:51:21.920 cyber bullying on your kid's apps, they detect like explicit 2:51:22.000 --> 2:51:23.760 images being sent to your kid. 2:51:24.040 --> 2:51:26.680 They even had some key phrases that they would watch 2:51:26.760 --> 2:51:31.279 for if somebody was detecting like texting like kys yourself. 2:51:31.240 --> 2:51:33.960 Self harm stuff. You know a lot of this kind 2:51:34.000 --> 2:51:36.520 of stuff. You can you can also block certain sites, 2:51:36.560 --> 2:51:40.360 block a block adult content, you know, just a kind 2:51:40.400 --> 2:51:45.200 of basic parntal controls. But there's kind of an an 2:51:45.400 --> 2:51:48.760 underside to products like these, and I asked them about that, 2:51:49.440 --> 2:51:52.920 one being that because this is you know, scanning all 2:51:53.000 --> 2:51:57.400 the text messages, all of the stuff from like Snapchat, discord, 2:51:57.560 --> 2:52:00.680 any kind of texting apps. This could this sort of 2:52:00.760 --> 2:52:04.760 product could also out a closeted kid as gay to 2:52:04.800 --> 2:52:10.200 their parents, but to their possibly very likely conservative Christian parents, 2:52:10.240 --> 2:52:11.400 because that's the types of products the. 2:52:13.280 --> 2:52:13.480 Question. 2:52:13.520 --> 2:52:16.120 You did not like that question at all, but he 2:52:16.160 --> 2:52:18.960 didn't like my second question even more, which is relating 2:52:19.000 --> 2:52:21.360 to you know, they are marketing this product to kind 2:52:21.360 --> 2:52:25.720 of stop child grooming, to stop child sexual exploitation, but 2:52:25.920 --> 2:52:29.879 most like child sexual assault and child sexual abuse happens 2:52:29.879 --> 2:52:32.280 from within the home. And if we have a parent 2:52:32.320 --> 2:52:35.880 who's constantly monitoring their kid's cell phone, this can also 2:52:35.920 --> 2:52:39.280 be used to like surveil your child to see if 2:52:39.320 --> 2:52:41.840 they're talking about parental abuse, if they're trying to send 2:52:41.879 --> 2:52:44.720 messages to people about this. This is a pretty common 2:52:44.840 --> 2:52:48.200 problem with these sorts of products. And I asked the 2:52:49.879 --> 2:52:53.120 CEO or the CTO about this, and he did not 2:52:53.200 --> 2:52:55.360 really like that question. He tried to deflect to some 2:52:55.600 --> 2:52:58.520 sort of vague notion of, oh, well, because we care 2:52:58.520 --> 2:53:01.080 about privacy, you know, we can't build in any safeguards 2:53:01.120 --> 2:53:03.960 if we see anything suggesting this, or if the if 2:53:04.000 --> 2:53:08.280 the app sees anything suggesting this, and it's it's really 2:53:08.400 --> 2:53:12.800 up to we're trying to put control back in the parents' hands. 2:53:13.120 --> 2:53:15.480 And he kind of made this like parental rights sort 2:53:15.520 --> 2:53:19.400 of argument. So this is there is a lot of 2:53:19.440 --> 2:53:21.920 products like this. There's a lot of like internet monitoring 2:53:22.040 --> 2:53:25.640 products of people just recently learn about this this conservative 2:53:25.680 --> 2:53:28.720 product called Covenant Eyes because the new speaker of the 2:53:28.760 --> 2:53:30.240 house used it, and. 2:53:30.320 --> 2:53:33.360 Covenantize has been around for like twenty tis a long time. 2:53:34.480 --> 2:53:37.960 What makes this one interesting is that they're actually selling, 2:53:38.120 --> 2:53:39.840 like Samsung smartphones. 2:53:39.320 --> 2:53:42.440 A phone yeah and I with this offtware built in. 2:53:43.120 --> 2:53:45.400 And I asked them because they are they are fit. 2:53:45.480 --> 2:53:47.240 They said that we were selling an app for a while, 2:53:47.320 --> 2:53:49.800 but you know that could it would work differently depending 2:53:49.800 --> 2:53:53.000 on the phones. We decided to sell a hardware device, 2:53:54.000 --> 2:53:57.160 and so I asked them, is there any branding on 2:53:57.280 --> 2:54:00.520 this device that would make it clear that people have 2:54:00.680 --> 2:54:04.160 a device that has this software on it, and he 2:54:04.240 --> 2:54:06.120 had this long speech about how you know, for the 2:54:06.160 --> 2:54:08.800 good the best of the relationship. All the child psychologists 2:54:08.800 --> 2:54:11.200 be talked to say that you should tell your kid 2:54:11.440 --> 2:54:13.400 that you have this on there, that you're listening to it. 2:54:13.840 --> 2:54:16.879 But when I he handed me the phone, answering the question, yeah, 2:54:16.959 --> 2:54:18.360 he handed me the phone and I said, is this 2:54:18.560 --> 2:54:22.000 the production model? He said, yes, this is identical. Absolutely nothing, 2:54:22.120 --> 2:54:23.440 just says it's a Samsung phone. 2:54:23.520 --> 2:54:23.680 Yep. 2:54:23.840 --> 2:54:25.600 You can lie to your kid very easily with this 2:54:25.720 --> 2:54:26.200 fucking thing. 2:54:27.760 --> 2:54:30.080 So yeah, that that is. That is one product that 2:54:30.480 --> 2:54:33.400 gave me the most dick out of everything we saw today. 2:54:33.600 --> 2:54:37.000 That's the most outside of all of the AI's the 2:54:37.280 --> 2:54:41.680 And again we have a lot working on you about 2:54:41.720 --> 2:54:46.200 the AI. As a little bit of a spoiler. At simultaneously, 2:54:46.440 --> 2:54:51.280 perhaps the exact same minute, Garrison made a California State 2:54:51.480 --> 2:54:56.520 Police sheriff furious at them, police chief furious at them, 2:54:56.920 --> 2:54:59.680 and I pissed off a senior executive at Google and 2:54:59.760 --> 2:55:03.320 a your AI executive at McDonald's on two. 2:55:03.320 --> 2:55:06.720 Sides of Las Vegas, and simultaneous pedals the same times. 2:55:06.959 --> 2:55:09.720 You're gonna hear both of that shit later, but for 2:55:09.920 --> 2:55:12.200 right now, do you want to close? Is there one other? 2:55:12.520 --> 2:55:15.160 You know what, We're gonna have a whole episode in 2:55:15.240 --> 2:55:17.760 the stuff that made us feel happy. I feel like 2:55:17.800 --> 2:55:19.920 we should talk about one thing that was cool, one 2:55:19.959 --> 2:55:23.199 of the really neat products there. And while I'm talking 2:55:23.280 --> 2:55:27.360 about this, my serfs will we'll find it. Do you 2:55:27.440 --> 2:55:30.360 guys remember in like watching Star Trek, you're like fucking 2:55:30.440 --> 2:55:33.720 reading Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy idea of a universal 2:55:33.840 --> 2:55:36.560 translator that was like simple and effective and you could 2:55:36.600 --> 2:55:38.160 just like talk into it and so to the other one. 2:55:38.200 --> 2:55:41.720 It would translate your conversations. There's a number of ways 2:55:41.800 --> 2:55:44.040 people are working on for that. I know that there 2:55:44.080 --> 2:55:46.640 are apps that are to some degree successful. There was 2:55:46.680 --> 2:55:49.760 a company there called time Kettle that just had a 2:55:49.800 --> 2:55:54.199 little device. It was about three inches long, maybe maybe 2:55:54.240 --> 2:55:58.080 an inch thick, a little bit less rectangular prism that 2:55:58.840 --> 2:56:02.560 there was this guy who spoke Mandarin Ice obviously speak English, 2:56:02.959 --> 2:56:05.400 and we were able to have a perfectly fluent conversation 2:56:05.920 --> 2:56:08.320 passing this thing, talking to this thing, and passing it 2:56:08.400 --> 2:56:09.840 back and forth and it would speak for us. It 2:56:09.879 --> 2:56:12.200 worked great. It also has within the body of the 2:56:12.240 --> 2:56:13.800 machine you can pop it out and it has two 2:56:13.840 --> 2:56:16.520 different little earbuds. You put one in euro one on 2:56:16.560 --> 2:56:18.600 the others, and you can walk and talk and it 2:56:18.680 --> 2:56:21.280 worked really well. I'm not enough of an expert on 2:56:21.360 --> 2:56:23.560 translation technology to say this is unique, but I can 2:56:23.640 --> 2:56:27.760 say this is something that, like if that I would 2:56:27.840 --> 2:56:31.840 absolutely buy to travel with. It's a really again not 2:56:31.959 --> 2:56:34.920 saying it's like absolutely unique, because I'm not an expert 2:56:35.000 --> 2:56:36.680 on this, but I was impressed with the degree to 2:56:36.720 --> 2:56:41.279 which it allowed fluent conversation, including the use of idioms, 2:56:41.959 --> 2:56:44.880 and he said it was. I tested with Mandarin. We 2:56:44.959 --> 2:56:50.360 had a decent length conversation that was very intelligible. He 2:56:50.440 --> 2:56:53.280 said it worked with something like forty languages. And it's 2:56:53.520 --> 2:56:55.640 that's the kind of thing that makes CS amazing because 2:56:55.640 --> 2:56:59.680 this was five feet away from the dog shit robot 2:57:00.280 --> 2:57:03.560 that I asked about Thermite. And that's the thing. You 2:57:03.720 --> 2:57:06.760 get this like two people, one man whose dream is 2:57:06.800 --> 2:57:10.359 to connect the world and break the barriers of language, 2:57:10.640 --> 2:57:12.880 and one man who wants to make a robot that 2:57:13.040 --> 2:57:15.800 makes you hate the world, and both of them are 2:57:15.920 --> 2:57:19.280 next to each other, and there's also free liquor, and 2:57:19.480 --> 2:57:23.160 by god, ces is a good time. The Consumer Electronics 2:57:23.160 --> 2:57:25.400 Show TAVIA, How are you feeling about your first one. 2:57:26.320 --> 2:57:28.440 This is my second one, but I'm feeling pretty good. 2:57:29.160 --> 2:57:29.240 Oh. 2:57:29.280 --> 2:57:33.080 As a journalist, yes, it was enlightening. I got to 2:57:33.360 --> 2:57:35.440 see things that I did not know that I could 2:57:35.520 --> 2:57:39.080 see as a journalist. And a lot of it was 2:57:39.680 --> 2:57:42.240 very a lot of fluff, if I'm being honest. 2:57:42.760 --> 2:57:46.320 Yeah, it's mostly nonsense. And you know, aside from that 2:57:46.360 --> 2:57:50.120 one guy we watched die, nobody died, Garrison, How did 2:57:50.160 --> 2:57:52.760 you like eating dinner at Maramoto? Pretty good restaurant. 2:57:52.879 --> 2:57:55.400 That's probably the best meal I've had in recent memory. 2:57:56.120 --> 2:57:58.320 Well, then that justifies the company expense. 2:57:58.440 --> 2:58:02.240 Yeah, no, that was the the food we had tonight, 2:58:02.360 --> 2:58:05.320 and the very long walk back to the hotel was 2:58:05.600 --> 2:58:06.480 quite the experience. 2:58:06.600 --> 2:58:08.160 Well, I wanted to have a fight with you with 2:58:08.959 --> 2:58:13.640 the Excalibur Hotel's glasses. A fun thing about Vegas. If 2:58:13.640 --> 2:58:16.360 you're drunk enough, you can throw glasses at each other 2:58:16.560 --> 2:58:20.440 in the street outside and no one can get stopped. 2:58:20.680 --> 2:58:24.240 Something can get times because the glass weirdly doesn't break 2:58:24.360 --> 2:58:26.000 after it hits a Robert Evans. 2:58:26.120 --> 2:58:28.560 That was just Garrison. My glass broke immediately. 2:58:29.520 --> 2:58:32.240 All right, Well, I think that probably does it for 2:58:32.400 --> 2:58:35.960 us today. We will be back probably tomorrow with more 2:58:36.600 --> 2:58:41.040 just just game changing, revolutionary technology. 2:58:40.600 --> 2:58:43.360 Game change of technology. Most importantly, folks, the hotel we're 2:58:43.400 --> 2:58:45.440 staying in right now, which is one step up from 2:58:45.480 --> 2:58:48.160 the cheapest I didn't put Garrison in Circus Circus again. 2:58:48.400 --> 2:58:51.800 They advertised that they have IVS here. So my plan, 2:58:52.280 --> 2:58:54.640 we're going to do the exact opposite of whatever you 2:58:54.800 --> 2:58:57.120 do to avoid a hangover, and then we're all going 2:58:57.200 --> 2:58:58.960 to get ivs in the morning. It's going to be 2:58:59.000 --> 2:59:03.600 a good time stick around. Oh yeah, Tavia, you have 2:59:03.640 --> 2:59:04.360 anything to plug. 2:59:06.200 --> 2:59:09.080 You can follow me at ceut Mora on Twitter or 2:59:09.320 --> 2:59:11.920 x depending on your preference there, or you can see 2:59:11.959 --> 2:59:14.800 my work at Taviamora dot com. 2:59:16.400 --> 2:59:19.520 Tavia illustrated both of my books, After the Revolution and 2:59:19.600 --> 2:59:21.600 A Brief History of Ice, and she also made that 2:59:21.680 --> 2:59:24.680 big weird sphere thing in the middle of Las Vegas, 2:59:24.879 --> 2:59:29.480 so follow her seeut Mora and uh yeah, you know what. 2:59:29.600 --> 2:59:33.039 Until next time, folks, find somebody who looks like they 2:59:33.120 --> 2:59:35.680 might be a robot and just stab them a little bit, 2:59:36.520 --> 2:59:39.640 not in the abdomen where there's pieces a little on 2:59:39.760 --> 2:59:41.680 the arm. Slash them on the arm, you know what, 2:59:42.120 --> 2:59:44.280 That can't hurt anybody anyway. We're done. 2:59:57.360 --> 2:59:59.720 Oh man, welcome back. 3:00:00.280 --> 3:00:05.240 It could happen here. The only podcast that takes sole 3:00:05.440 --> 3:00:08.120 responsibility for the assassination of. 3:00:12.360 --> 3:00:13.480 So we're back. 3:00:13.520 --> 3:00:17.520 We're still at CES. We're slightly more sober than we 3:00:17.600 --> 3:00:18.320 were last night. 3:00:18.440 --> 3:00:20.480 Yeah, but we are more high on ces. 3:00:20.680 --> 3:00:23.760 We are higher on cees. If you haven't been, the 3:00:23.800 --> 3:00:26.720 Consumer Electronics Show is one hundred and twenty thousand or 3:00:26.760 --> 3:00:30.920 so people all flooding into Las Vegas for about four days, 3:00:31.280 --> 3:00:34.000 where they walk around in a convention center that if 3:00:34.040 --> 3:00:36.199 you grew up in a small town, the convention center 3:00:36.360 --> 3:00:38.680 is larger than where you grew up. And it's just 3:00:38.879 --> 3:00:44.920 wall to wall a mix of incredible new technology, achievements 3:00:45.040 --> 3:00:49.200 that are going to change people's lives, absolute nonsense, vaporware, 3:00:49.959 --> 3:00:53.360 repackaged old shit, and stuff that will get someone you 3:00:53.520 --> 3:00:58.160 love killed, all just crammed together in this massive room 3:00:58.520 --> 3:01:02.680 the size of a small world, and yeah, you just 3:01:02.760 --> 3:01:06.400 kind of go crazy slowly living in it. This is Robert, 3:01:07.480 --> 3:01:10.600 you know me and Garrison? Hello, you know Garrison, And 3:01:10.720 --> 3:01:17.280 returning from part one is Tavia Mora, our resident technological expert. Tavia, 3:01:17.320 --> 3:01:20.080 how'd you feel in your second day out on the floor? 3:01:20.800 --> 3:01:23.640 Exhausted, and excited to be impressed by stuff. 3:01:23.879 --> 3:01:24.080 Yeah. 3:01:24.240 --> 3:01:26.879 Yeah, well that is what we're doing today today's episode. 3:01:26.959 --> 3:01:28.720 Last time we tell keep that mic in your hand. 3:01:29.480 --> 3:01:33.040 Last episode we talked about the most obviously stupid products. 3:01:33.200 --> 3:01:35.280 So Tavia, I want you to start us off with 3:01:35.600 --> 3:01:38.560 what is a good product something you saw today or 3:01:38.640 --> 3:01:41.280 yesterday that you thought that thing is fucking cool. 3:01:42.320 --> 3:01:44.920 Well, let's see. I think we're in the North Hall. 3:01:45.240 --> 3:01:46.560 It was in the North Hall that we saw This 3:01:47.360 --> 3:01:51.080 is a gadget called wheel me that was just a 3:01:51.160 --> 3:01:55.960 simple rolling platform that I would track along where it 3:01:56.040 --> 3:01:58.920 was supposed to go on the ground. But what I 3:01:59.000 --> 3:02:01.480 saw on it was a case, and I was very excited. 3:02:01.920 --> 3:02:03.760 Since I work in a lot of the event spaces 3:02:04.400 --> 3:02:06.360 and when I have to move to and from kind 3:02:06.360 --> 3:02:07.960 of where we're like staging a lot of stuff to 3:02:08.120 --> 3:02:10.840 where the site is, it's really nice to have the 3:02:10.920 --> 3:02:13.880 extra help. The extra lift that was marketed pretty much 3:02:13.959 --> 3:02:16.600 directly toward me. As soon as I saw it, instantly 3:02:16.640 --> 3:02:18.320 wanted it. I could see I use for that. 3:02:18.920 --> 3:02:21.920 Yeah, yeah, it seemed like a potentially really useful thing. 3:02:21.959 --> 3:02:24.280 Obviously the mount that they had wouldn't be able to 3:02:24.320 --> 3:02:27.080 go up or down stairs. Well, but if you're moving 3:02:27.120 --> 3:02:29.560 across like a large warehouse space or something like the 3:02:29.640 --> 3:02:31.240 kind of folece where a lot of events are held, 3:02:31.320 --> 3:02:33.960 or a concert space, I could see it being a 3:02:34.040 --> 3:02:37.160 real labor saver. And we did see there was another 3:02:37.280 --> 3:02:40.039 product there that was like it was a delivery robot 3:02:40.160 --> 3:02:42.680 for like delivering food that they had built away for 3:02:42.760 --> 3:02:47.120 it to go upstairs, where it basically had a large, 3:02:47.200 --> 3:02:50.240 maybe at two feet diameter wheel and there were like 3:02:50.360 --> 3:02:52.840 plastic spokes and then the outside of the wheel is 3:02:52.959 --> 3:02:56.480 like soft plastic like the actual tread itself, and so 3:02:56.600 --> 3:02:58.920 it would just kind of bend to conform to the 3:02:59.040 --> 3:03:00.840 shape of the stairs, and it was able to roll 3:03:00.959 --> 3:03:03.760 smoothly upstairs on its wheels as a result of that, 3:03:04.200 --> 3:03:06.480 which I thought was kind of impressive. And that's one 3:03:06.520 --> 3:03:08.760 of the nicer things, is like seeing like, oh, somebody 3:03:08.840 --> 3:03:11.560 really puts some thought into that. That's a legitimately clever 3:03:11.760 --> 3:03:15.400 idea as opposed to a product we didn't mention last time. 3:03:15.440 --> 3:03:17.480 But it's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. 3:03:19.320 --> 3:03:23.040 A guy who created smart plants, who who used the 3:03:23.120 --> 3:03:26.119 power of AI to make your plants able to communicate 3:03:26.200 --> 3:03:29.640 with you. So it's basically a huge plastic flower plant 3:03:29.760 --> 3:03:32.360 pets with a Z spelled with a Z. 3:03:33.240 --> 3:03:36.240 And basically you can't talk to it. But most of 3:03:36.280 --> 3:03:38.240 what humane to were just molesting the plants. 3:03:38.680 --> 3:03:41.520 It will it has speakers in the the flower pots, 3:03:41.520 --> 3:03:44.360 So would you like stroke the leaves? It will giggle 3:03:45.600 --> 3:03:47.880 like this is It was immediately like, oh, this is 3:03:47.920 --> 3:03:49.959 made for some kind of weird sex freak. 3:03:50.120 --> 3:03:54.440 Like so, and didn't it like spin back and forth 3:03:54.440 --> 3:03:56.960 a little bit as oh, he's giggling it like it's shamered. 3:03:57.080 --> 3:03:59.440 It like danced the pod around, it made it made 3:03:59.520 --> 3:04:00.520 small little noises. 3:04:00.680 --> 3:04:00.920 It was. 3:04:01.240 --> 3:04:05.280 It was quite something. And the guy was incredibly enthusiastic 3:04:05.360 --> 3:04:09.080 about his about his talking, his talking giggling plants. 3:04:09.200 --> 3:04:10.720 He was following his passion truly. 3:04:10.760 --> 3:04:12.720 You could see yeah in his eyes. I will say 3:04:12.840 --> 3:04:15.039 the product worked. I'm just not sure it did work 3:04:16.040 --> 3:04:18.440 the product is for, but it was one of the 3:04:18.520 --> 3:04:20.640 more functional pieces of technology we've seen. 3:04:20.720 --> 3:04:21.000 It did. 3:04:21.040 --> 3:04:23.080 He also said that like when the plants were dry, 3:04:23.280 --> 3:04:26.240 it would like make the sound like a bubbling water sound, 3:04:26.280 --> 3:04:28.160 which I think is a mistake. It should scream at 3:04:28.200 --> 3:04:30.720 you when you have not watered the plants recently enough. 3:04:31.080 --> 3:04:33.440 But I do love how clearly he was obsessed with 3:04:33.560 --> 3:04:35.520 the brilliance of this design. That is one of the 3:04:35.600 --> 3:04:38.440 fun things at the smaller booths at a show like this, 3:04:38.800 --> 3:04:41.040 because like you know, you got like big companies LG, 3:04:41.520 --> 3:04:46.080 Lenovo and Honda, all these massive companies with very slick, 3:04:46.200 --> 3:04:49.200 expensive booths, and then you have in other areas just 3:04:49.280 --> 3:04:52.520 like a little square that's just a crazy person with 3:04:52.680 --> 3:04:55.400 the thing that they've dedicated their life to building. And 3:04:55.600 --> 3:04:58.160 sometimes it's the most brilliant thing you've ever seen. And 3:04:58.280 --> 3:05:01.000 sometimes it's a flower poth that lets that giggles when 3:05:01.000 --> 3:05:01.480 you molest. 3:05:02.040 --> 3:05:03.680 Sometimes it's plant, but it's you. 3:05:03.800 --> 3:05:06.280 I always appreciate the fact that, well, at least you 3:05:06.400 --> 3:05:08.119 threw your life into this stupid thing. 3:05:08.680 --> 3:05:11.400 Yeah. No, it's always kind of endearing, like yeah, yeah, 3:05:11.640 --> 3:05:14.320 no matter what it is, it's it's fun to see 3:05:14.360 --> 3:05:17.480 someone who's like, figure it out life, Yeah, a man, Yeah, 3:05:17.560 --> 3:05:20.040 you know who you are. You're the plant pets guy. 3:05:20.640 --> 3:05:22.800 Is that a good thing to be? I don't know, 3:05:23.000 --> 3:05:28.520 that's yeah, that's not that's not on me. I mean, 3:05:28.600 --> 3:05:30.920 we certainly saw a lot of a lot of products 3:05:31.000 --> 3:05:34.040 walking walking the show floor today, not nearly as many 3:05:34.560 --> 3:05:36.600 metaverse products as there were last year, and there were 3:05:36.640 --> 3:05:40.720 still some. I was finally able to try the Haptics 3:05:41.400 --> 3:05:44.959 tax suit, which I missed last year. This is it's 3:05:45.000 --> 3:05:47.560 basically a vest that zips up. It's it's not as 3:05:47.640 --> 3:05:50.360 painful as some of the other haptic suits that I 3:05:50.480 --> 3:05:52.199 tried out last year, which I kind of actually enjoyed. 3:05:52.200 --> 3:05:54.080 The ones that are just like actually hurt you. 3:05:54.320 --> 3:05:56.520 Yeah, that like basically shock you in such a way 3:05:56.520 --> 3:05:58.680 as to simulate a stab, wound or something. 3:05:59.080 --> 3:06:02.920 That was cool. Yeah, this one by b hacked. This 3:06:03.080 --> 3:06:06.720 one by b Haptics was very user friendly. It wasn't 3:06:06.760 --> 3:06:09.920 it wasn't really painful, but it worked. It worked pretty well. 3:06:10.680 --> 3:06:13.039 What else? What else did we see walking walking into 3:06:13.080 --> 3:06:15.920 the big central hall? Oh there was there was that 3:06:16.080 --> 3:06:18.720 thing that I wish was real but probably will never be, 3:06:19.120 --> 3:06:22.400 which is the LG podcasting camphor hand. Yeah. 3:06:22.720 --> 3:06:25.160 So LG the people who may or may not have 3:06:25.240 --> 3:06:27.320 made your TV, but there's a decent chance they did. 3:06:27.640 --> 3:06:29.840 They have their big booth. It's mostly like TVs and 3:06:29.959 --> 3:06:32.520 smart home connected and entertainment stuff. But then they had 3:06:32.560 --> 3:06:35.480 like a concept product that was like a camper trailer. 3:06:35.720 --> 3:06:38.280 It was actually a really nice layout, but for what 3:06:38.520 --> 3:06:41.080 you know, camper trailers, they have all these little like 3:06:41.240 --> 3:06:44.000 cubby holes and storage spaces built into the sides in 3:06:44.040 --> 3:06:46.080 the back, and so underneath the bed that took up 3:06:46.080 --> 3:06:48.720 the back, they had like a folding down space where 3:06:48.760 --> 3:06:50.960 it was like it was like stored a half dozen 3:06:51.000 --> 3:06:54.560 bottles of wine and glasses in a very like pleasing way. 3:06:54.640 --> 3:06:56.240 But then in the center of the wine and the 3:06:56.280 --> 3:06:59.840 glasses are two like recording microphones. Like that's just like 3:07:00.200 --> 3:07:04.800 they made a van for podcasting alcoholics and I respect 3:07:05.080 --> 3:07:08.400 very targeted audience there. Yeah. On the other side of 3:07:08.440 --> 3:07:10.720 it was a fold down panel that was like a 3:07:10.760 --> 3:07:12.360 lot of campers have that you could fold it down 3:07:12.400 --> 3:07:15.000 and it's like a table, but on the wall, like 3:07:15.080 --> 3:07:17.120 once you fold it down, underneath the part of it 3:07:17.160 --> 3:07:19.480 that folds down, it's like a TV screen that they 3:07:19.600 --> 3:07:24.080 had tuned to like a fire place, like a campfire video. 3:07:24.920 --> 3:07:28.000 Just like if I am out in the wilderness, I 3:07:28.080 --> 3:07:30.680 am not putting on a campfire video. That's the most 3:07:30.720 --> 3:07:33.640 depressing thing I can imagine. Why would you do that? 3:07:35.440 --> 3:07:40.400 But that was fun in terms of like actually impressive things. 3:07:40.720 --> 3:07:43.480 There's a product we saw our first night out there, 3:07:43.560 --> 3:07:45.880 the time Kettle I don't know why they gave him 3:07:45.920 --> 3:07:47.600 up that name. It has nothing to do with what 3:07:47.680 --> 3:07:51.959 the product does. This is a translation device specifically, it's 3:07:52.040 --> 3:07:55.160 like the star trekiest thing I saw, because first off, 3:07:55.200 --> 3:07:56.760 it's a little retro. It's like a kind of a 3:07:56.879 --> 3:08:02.040 thick rectangular prism with a screen on it. And the 3:08:02.440 --> 3:08:04.960 rep from the company was like a Chinese man who 3:08:05.080 --> 3:08:08.280 clearly was like spoke Mandarin as his native language, and 3:08:08.360 --> 3:08:10.520 we had a conversation talking into this thing, and it 3:08:10.520 --> 3:08:13.240 would translate and speak back to each other. And there's 3:08:13.320 --> 3:08:15.480 like a little compartment on it that pops out, and 3:08:15.560 --> 3:08:18.000 it has two earphones. You could each put one in 3:08:18.080 --> 3:08:20.760 each person's ear to have like a live conversation that's 3:08:20.800 --> 3:08:23.640 translated over it. You can also hook it in through 3:08:23.680 --> 3:08:25.880 your phone. I know there's a couple of devices like that. 3:08:26.480 --> 3:08:28.640 This is the one I've seen that seemed both the 3:08:28.720 --> 3:08:33.280 smoothest and the most kind of like purpose built of them. 3:08:33.600 --> 3:08:35.400 I thought it was really impressive, and it's one of 3:08:35.480 --> 3:08:38.280 those you only you don't get those so often these days, 3:08:38.280 --> 3:08:40.240 but like every now and then at a show like this, 3:08:40.840 --> 3:08:43.640 you see a piece of technology that's like, well, this 3:08:43.800 --> 3:08:46.199 is what I assumed we would be doing with computers 3:08:46.240 --> 3:08:48.480 when I was a kid in the future, right, there 3:08:48.480 --> 3:08:51.400 would be an instant translator, a Babelfish device that you 3:08:51.440 --> 3:08:53.840 could just fit in your pocket, and it is kind 3:08:53.879 --> 3:08:55.920 of fucking dope, and I thought it worked really well. 3:08:55.959 --> 3:08:58.800 Liked I could have conducted an interview with this guy 3:08:58.879 --> 3:09:00.880 through that thing and it would have been pretty seamless, 3:09:01.520 --> 3:09:06.440 which which was nice to see. Speaking of Mandarin, I 3:09:06.480 --> 3:09:09.440 don't know, whatever products you're listening to, there's like a 3:09:09.520 --> 3:09:11.840 good thirty percent chance they're made over in China. So 3:09:12.760 --> 3:09:26.560 support the Chinese economy. We're back. So one of the 3:09:26.600 --> 3:09:28.520 things we did at this trade show, most of the 3:09:28.560 --> 3:09:30.240 time we spent was not out on the floor looking 3:09:30.240 --> 3:09:34.240 at products, it was attending these different speeches and panels, 3:09:34.400 --> 3:09:36.640 like where they'll have people from like they had like 3:09:36.680 --> 3:09:38.640 one of Google's AI heads and like the head of 3:09:38.720 --> 3:09:42.320 McDonald's AI integration, which is happening for some reason. We'll 3:09:42.360 --> 3:09:45.280 talk more about this in our dedicated AI episodes that 3:09:45.360 --> 3:09:47.400 are coming a bit later. But on one of the 3:09:47.480 --> 3:09:51.360 panels it was AI is the Fifth Industrial Revolution, was 3:09:51.440 --> 3:09:53.600 the name of the panel. They did not once to 3:09:53.640 --> 3:09:57.000 talk about what industrial revel The other four were or 3:09:57.080 --> 3:09:59.600 why this one was. They just said that title like 3:09:59.720 --> 3:10:02.160 five times. They were very proud of it. And one 3:10:02.200 --> 3:10:04.759 of the who was that Lady Garrison. 3:10:05.160 --> 3:10:08.360 The Alexa lady with the iHeart AI shirt. 3:10:08.560 --> 3:10:10.440 Yes, there was a lady with a shirt that said 3:10:10.480 --> 3:10:12.440 iHeart is Was she the dividend lady? 3:10:13.040 --> 3:10:18.760 No, the dividend lady was from? Was from the Synthetic 3:10:18.959 --> 3:10:19.720 Information panel? 3:10:19.879 --> 3:10:20.039 Yes? 3:10:20.160 --> 3:10:23.360 Yes? Oh sorry, sorry sorry that was the other panel. Yeah. Yeah, 3:10:23.400 --> 3:10:25.560 there was a panel in like deep fakes and AI 3:10:26.160 --> 3:10:28.880 harms and there was a lady on there who was 3:10:28.959 --> 3:10:32.800 like some sort of relevant expert. But she kept using 3:10:32.879 --> 3:10:35.520 the term the liar's dividend to refer to the money 3:10:35.680 --> 3:10:39.440 that you make if you're a scammer, and she kept 3:10:39.560 --> 3:10:43.000 using it in the way she used it. I immediately thought, like, oh, 3:10:43.040 --> 3:10:44.800 this lady wants to sell a book and that's the 3:10:44.879 --> 3:10:47.920 title of the book, right, Like, that's very clearly she's 3:10:47.959 --> 3:10:50.320 mentioning it in such a pointed, unnatural way. That was 3:10:50.360 --> 3:10:54.160 my assumption. Apparently the term has existed for a few 3:10:54.240 --> 3:10:57.200 years now. It seems useless to me because like, if 3:10:57.240 --> 3:11:00.640 you're saying someone is a fraudster, well, the difended is 3:11:00.680 --> 3:11:03.320 the money they make committing fraud. Like, you don't need 3:11:03.400 --> 3:11:06.600 to give it another name. It's not like that's like again, 3:11:06.680 --> 3:11:08.880 it's like calling the money you get robbing a bank 3:11:09.000 --> 3:11:11.520 the bank robbers dividend. Well, that's just a stupid thing 3:11:11.600 --> 3:11:15.000 to say. So yeah, we've been using that for everything 3:11:15.080 --> 3:11:17.880 now and now you are all enjoying the podcasters dividend here, 3:11:18.240 --> 3:11:19.800 you know, that's that's what you're listening to. 3:11:20.560 --> 3:11:24.320 Speaking of listening, we tried good pivot here, so thank 3:11:24.360 --> 3:11:26.880 you to you, thank you. We call that the Segway dividend. 3:11:28.600 --> 3:11:29.959 We tried. 3:11:30.440 --> 3:11:32.400 I know Robert's familiar with this, but I've not tried 3:11:32.440 --> 3:11:37.640 them out before until today. I think it's called chokes shocks, shocks. 3:11:37.920 --> 3:11:40.800 Yeah, I wear those headphones every day. Yeah, they're like 3:11:40.879 --> 3:11:42.560 bone conducting headphones. 3:11:42.160 --> 3:11:44.920 Bone conducting headphones, so they don't go in your ear. 3:11:45.000 --> 3:11:48.480 They go around like around the back of your head. 3:11:48.560 --> 3:11:52.000 They hook around your ear lobe and they vibrate and 3:11:52.040 --> 3:11:54.040 they can make you hear sounds in your brain. Yeah, 3:11:54.080 --> 3:11:57.160 which is pretty cool. They were they had they just 3:11:57.240 --> 3:12:01.840 launched a new waterproof model targeting like swimmers. 3:12:01.920 --> 3:12:04.280 Yes, like IP sixty eight or something like that. Like, yeah, 3:12:04.400 --> 3:12:06.480 it's it's supposed to be you can submerge it for 3:12:06.680 --> 3:12:09.680 like hours at two meters of depth, so you can 3:12:09.760 --> 3:12:10.600 like swim with them on. 3:12:11.000 --> 3:12:15.560 But I really enjoyed these. Yeah, apparently they can help 3:12:15.640 --> 3:12:18.840 some people who have like targeted hearing loss, So that's 3:12:19.200 --> 3:12:22.560 that's an actually neat piece of working technology. 3:12:22.920 --> 3:12:24.680 Yeah, it's really cool if you're not aware of these, 3:12:24.800 --> 3:12:27.120 because when we say, like Whenson said, you can hear 3:12:27.200 --> 3:12:29.680 sounds to them. They're just like wearing normal headphones. But 3:12:30.680 --> 3:12:33.200 we have a friend who is deaf in one ear 3:12:33.360 --> 3:12:35.640 and put them on for the first time recently. It 3:12:35.760 --> 3:12:37.560 was able to like hear out of that ear for 3:12:37.640 --> 3:12:39.680 the first time in years, which is like kind of 3:12:39.720 --> 3:12:41.560 an amazing thing to be able to do with a 3:12:41.640 --> 3:12:44.680 fucking set of headphones that are they're not cheap headphones, 3:12:44.720 --> 3:12:48.520 but they're not like inaccessibly expensive. All right, Tavia, you 3:12:48.600 --> 3:12:49.920 got another one you wanted to talk about. 3:12:50.720 --> 3:12:53.120 Yeah, there was this product that we ran into that 3:12:53.280 --> 3:12:56.760 was very close to the tact suit that Garrison had 3:12:56.800 --> 3:12:59.720 tried on, and it's called three D Desk. It looks 3:12:59.760 --> 3:13:01.760 to be like an additional add on you can put 3:13:01.840 --> 3:13:04.560 on top of your desk that you would use if 3:13:04.600 --> 3:13:07.600 you were working. The one that we had seen was 3:13:07.959 --> 3:13:12.000 a standing sitting style desk and it has the actual 3:13:12.040 --> 3:13:13.960 product itself on top of it, which looked to be 3:13:14.040 --> 3:13:17.520 like a stand, and it had two monitors attached to 3:13:17.720 --> 3:13:20.400 one plane of it, and then with like I think 3:13:20.480 --> 3:13:25.360 a simple button switch, it would sort of like another 3:13:25.440 --> 3:13:27.800 monitor would swoop out from behind them, and there was 3:13:27.840 --> 3:13:31.480 sort of like the cycling monitor arrangement that I hadn't 3:13:31.560 --> 3:13:34.680 quite seen before. And I work a lot with a 3:13:34.720 --> 3:13:36.840 bunch of different types of programs, and I'm like more 3:13:36.920 --> 3:13:39.480 or less stuck to my desk most of the time, 3:13:39.840 --> 3:13:42.760 So this actually looked to be another really useful product 3:13:42.800 --> 3:13:45.520 for somebody like me, not unlike the wheel me. 3:13:46.440 --> 3:13:46.640 Yeah. 3:13:46.760 --> 3:13:48.120 One of the things you can if you've seen like 3:13:48.200 --> 3:13:50.720 a drafting table, right like those desks, it's basically a 3:13:50.760 --> 3:13:53.760 big desk that you can like push down so that 3:13:53.959 --> 3:13:56.240 like the desk part is almost parallel, and you can 3:13:56.320 --> 3:13:58.560 like put stick paper and stuff on and you can 3:13:59.000 --> 3:14:01.920 draw on it like what architects use. It has that, 3:14:02.200 --> 3:14:05.680 so like underneath the monitors there's this top desk piece 3:14:05.720 --> 3:14:08.000 that you can like flip up and you can put 3:14:08.040 --> 3:14:10.360 stuff on, like use it as like a drafting table 3:14:10.800 --> 3:14:12.879 or push it back down, you know, with the switch 3:14:12.959 --> 3:14:13.360 of a button. 3:14:13.480 --> 3:14:14.640 It's pretty cool looking desk. 3:14:15.000 --> 3:14:17.080 Yeah, it would have like the two monitors and then 3:14:17.200 --> 3:14:19.560 this sort of like this plane that would be sitting 3:14:19.560 --> 3:14:21.840 at like a thirty nine degree angle or so kind 3:14:21.879 --> 3:14:23.720 of from you, so you can set a bunch of 3:14:23.760 --> 3:14:26.680 books up or a bunch of notes you're taking or organizing. 3:14:27.640 --> 3:14:29.640 Yeah, as a general rule, it was one of the 3:14:30.360 --> 3:14:33.279 like the products that I kept finding myself gravitating towards 3:14:33.400 --> 3:14:35.840 in our free time. There was like anything that had 3:14:35.920 --> 3:14:38.480 nothing to do with AI, because yeah, anyone who could 3:14:38.800 --> 3:14:41.840 who could find any reason to stick AI in something 3:14:42.240 --> 3:14:44.960 like people there's people selling like battery generators that are 3:14:45.040 --> 3:14:47.080 like AI assisted, and it's like, what do you mean 3:14:47.160 --> 3:14:49.280 it means means it cuts off the power when it's 3:14:49.400 --> 3:14:53.320 full well, unbelievable. That's not AI. That's just a battery 3:14:53.440 --> 3:14:57.000 working better. Like, come on, guys, it's this thing the 3:14:57.080 --> 3:15:00.480 tech industry does that that has has been supposed by 3:15:00.560 --> 3:15:03.080 like a lot of the products we've seen this year, 3:15:03.680 --> 3:15:06.680 many of whom are like just absolute nonsense, like the 3:15:07.320 --> 3:15:12.199 the wehead thing that that like hideous chatbot that looks 3:15:12.280 --> 3:15:16.119 like a broken human face and just deeply off putting. 3:15:16.440 --> 3:15:19.120 Now that said, there was a really cool product that 3:15:19.280 --> 3:15:24.439 we that I actually like liked, the AI use application. 3:15:25.040 --> 3:15:27.720 So there's a company called Cellistron that makes they're calling 3:15:27.760 --> 3:15:31.800 it a like a home observatory, and it's it looks 3:15:31.840 --> 3:15:34.840 like a big telescope. It's not cheap. It's not insanely 3:15:34.879 --> 3:15:38.000 expensive for a telescope, mind you, but it's it's not inexpensive, 3:15:38.440 --> 3:15:43.800 and it is like a motorized telescope that it uses 3:15:44.720 --> 3:15:48.240 like AI, like some sort of AI program in order 3:15:48.360 --> 3:15:53.280 to cut out light pollution and stuff and enhance the 3:15:53.360 --> 3:15:55.640 images that you're you're getting so that you can actually 3:15:55.680 --> 3:15:59.039 get clear images of like galaxies and other planets from 3:15:59.120 --> 3:16:01.840 your backyard. And it hooks into like a phone or 3:16:01.879 --> 3:16:06.320 a tablet or computer like wirelessly. It actually generates its 3:16:06.360 --> 3:16:08.720 own Wi Fi network, so you can still use even 3:16:08.720 --> 3:16:10.360 if you don't have Internet. But one of what you 3:16:10.440 --> 3:16:12.240 can do is you could control it from like an 3:16:12.280 --> 3:16:15.199 iPad and you could port the feed directly to your TV, 3:16:15.400 --> 3:16:17.600 and you could like direct you could have like a 3:16:17.640 --> 3:16:21.000 group of people sitting around snorting whatever drugs you prefer 3:16:21.120 --> 3:16:24.520 to snort and like looking at different galaxies and shit 3:16:24.600 --> 3:16:26.720 in space, and that was pretty fucking cool and actually 3:16:26.840 --> 3:16:29.920 like an actual application of machine learning that I thought 3:16:30.040 --> 3:16:30.640 was positive. 3:16:31.879 --> 3:16:34.359 Yeah, you can have like your little at home star parties. 3:16:35.440 --> 3:16:37.200 I dug in a little bit more on like how 3:16:37.280 --> 3:16:39.160 AI gets used there, and it seemed like it was 3:16:39.240 --> 3:16:44.200 mostly part of the image processing before controls get set 3:16:44.240 --> 3:16:46.600 to the user and they have like other adjustments such 3:16:46.640 --> 3:16:49.959 as brightness, contrast, that kind of thing. But it sounds 3:16:50.040 --> 3:16:52.560 like it does like some image processing as part of 3:16:52.600 --> 3:16:54.640 its AI capabilities. 3:16:56.360 --> 3:16:57.640 Yeah, that was that was neat. 3:16:57.720 --> 3:17:00.879 Again, not a cheap product, but like actually something that's 3:17:00.920 --> 3:17:04.760 seeing it used impressed me and I could see wanting 3:17:04.879 --> 3:17:06.960 to have that, And I could also see like a 3:17:07.040 --> 3:17:09.880 clear bit my roommate has telescopes and stuff, and there's 3:17:09.959 --> 3:17:12.360 usually the light pollution is too much of a pain 3:17:12.440 --> 3:17:15.080 in the ass and fucking even in Portland, which is 3:17:15.160 --> 3:17:17.880 not the worst city for light pollution in this country 3:17:18.080 --> 3:17:20.880 to use them very well. So something like that and 3:17:20.920 --> 3:17:22.879 also just being able to easily drop it onto your 3:17:22.920 --> 3:17:25.920 TV and like hang out with friends. Like if I 3:17:26.000 --> 3:17:28.080 had fight out access of something like that back when 3:17:28.080 --> 3:17:30.039 I was doing hallucinogens, I think it would have used 3:17:30.040 --> 3:17:30.400 it a lot. 3:17:31.200 --> 3:17:33.320 Yeah, that sounds that sounds promising. 3:17:33.080 --> 3:17:34.920 Speaking of things that I would have used a lot 3:17:35.000 --> 3:17:36.680 as a young man. Garrison, you want to tell us 3:17:36.680 --> 3:17:37.920 about the hand job machine. 3:17:38.440 --> 3:17:44.480 Sure, So there's this company that's what you said to 3:17:44.600 --> 3:17:48.920 get a second there. So there's this company in Norway 3:17:49.400 --> 3:17:56.920 called Handy. They make They make interactive, interactive sex toys. 3:17:57.760 --> 3:18:01.160 They started by targeting the male sex toy demographic or 3:18:01.440 --> 3:18:04.480 as they I actually liked that. They that they actually 3:18:04.800 --> 3:18:09.240 more often said the penis uh demographic, which yeah, which 3:18:09.360 --> 3:18:09.720 was nice. 3:18:09.760 --> 3:18:10.800 I appreciate that. Yeah. 3:18:11.120 --> 3:18:15.840 But anyway, it's uh, it's it's a little thing that 3:18:15.959 --> 3:18:18.879 you can you can slight and it goes up. 3:18:19.000 --> 3:18:23.360 Like it looks like a nice coffee thermoscy. It has 3:18:23.440 --> 3:18:26.280 kind of like with like a little tube that has 3:18:27.160 --> 3:18:31.320 like a clear plastic penis prism next to it. 3:18:31.720 --> 3:18:32.960 It has what it has one that it has like 3:18:33.000 --> 3:18:35.680 a has like a stroker sleeve attached in and you 3:18:35.760 --> 3:18:38.640 can control like the speed and vibration just on on 3:18:38.760 --> 3:18:42.800 the little like thermous looking thing. But the real features 3:18:43.000 --> 3:18:46.320 of the Handy is that it also has hands free 3:18:46.440 --> 3:18:50.480 control that you can you can hook this thing up 3:18:50.680 --> 3:18:53.840 via an app to many different like sources. You can 3:18:53.879 --> 3:18:55.920 hook this up to whatever you're watching on your computer. 3:18:56.600 --> 3:18:58.360 You can hook this up to movies. You can hook 3:18:58.400 --> 3:19:01.320 this up to an Amazon Alexa if that's your thing, 3:19:03.200 --> 3:19:08.800 and the sounds will will impact how the how the 3:19:08.879 --> 3:19:14.120 stroker moves. The The one of the more promising applications 3:19:14.120 --> 3:19:16.879 which it really also opens opens the field of music, 3:19:17.320 --> 3:19:18.840 is that you can hook it up to like your 3:19:18.879 --> 3:19:22.080 Spotify or something and the music and like the beats 3:19:22.080 --> 3:19:24.480 of the rhythm will impact the vibrations and speed on 3:19:24.640 --> 3:19:28.080 the stroker. So we can now learn which songs are 3:19:28.160 --> 3:19:32.200 best for orcas ofs which opens a whole new, whole 3:19:32.240 --> 3:19:35.120 new category for the Grammys. I think there's a lot 3:19:35.200 --> 3:19:36.920 of trial and error. I think one hundred gex is 3:19:36.959 --> 3:19:37.879 definitely gonna be up there. 3:19:38.200 --> 3:19:40.040 I think nickel Back is going to make a comeback. 3:19:40.240 --> 3:19:43.360 Yeah, this is gonna be the Billie Joel renaissance. Just 3:19:43.879 --> 3:19:48.199 just people spilling ropes over down Easter Alexas Christ. 3:19:48.920 --> 3:19:51.640 They also just launched a second product called I Think 3:19:51.879 --> 3:19:55.320 Just the O, which is just a more classic small 3:19:55.400 --> 3:19:59.440 handheld vibrator. Similarly like the Handy, It's it's based on 3:19:59.560 --> 3:20:03.600 actual like sound vibrations, not a motorized vibration, so it 3:20:04.320 --> 3:20:07.680 similarly can hook up to music and that changes the 3:20:07.760 --> 3:20:10.040 way it feels. So we have we have not been 3:20:10.040 --> 3:20:11.800 able to test these yet because he didn't actually have 3:20:11.879 --> 3:20:12.560 free copies. 3:20:12.600 --> 3:20:14.800 They only had to give Garrison a penis sheath. 3:20:14.879 --> 3:20:17.960 They only they only had the free sleeves. But the 3:20:18.000 --> 3:20:20.200 actual device is two hundred dollars, which is not is 3:20:20.320 --> 3:20:24.600 not super expensive considering this style of like sex toy. 3:20:24.680 --> 3:20:27.080 That is kind of standard. Yeah, yeah, that was That 3:20:27.240 --> 3:20:31.240 was one of the more professional booth sexually. Yeah and 3:20:31.360 --> 3:20:33.400 see yes, and this is they did a really good job. 3:20:33.600 --> 3:20:35.080 This is a good time for me to tell my 3:20:35.200 --> 3:20:38.720 favorite masturbation machine story. Oh so there's a product. 3:20:38.800 --> 3:20:39.160 Oh boy. 3:20:39.440 --> 3:20:42.720 You know, for the penis having demographic, there's not as 3:20:42.760 --> 3:20:45.800 many sex toys traditionally, not as many at least fun 3:20:45.879 --> 3:20:48.560 ones out there. It's it's it's a little bit of 3:20:48.600 --> 3:20:51.480 a barren wasteland. But there is the flesh light. And 3:20:51.560 --> 3:20:53.600 if you haven't seen a fleshlight, you've heard about them. 3:20:53.640 --> 3:20:56.280 It does look like a big, heavy, plastic flashlight and 3:20:56.360 --> 3:20:59.760 you unscrew the top and there's a fake vagina in there. Right. 3:21:00.400 --> 3:21:02.320 Some of them are shaped like asses. Some of them 3:21:02.360 --> 3:21:03.080 are sex asses. 3:21:03.200 --> 3:21:05.080 Sometimes there are a button. Sometimes there are a mouth too. 3:21:05.320 --> 3:21:08.720 Yeah, oh yeah, there's mouths too. And I once had 3:21:08.760 --> 3:21:10.520 a friend who got in some trouble with the law, 3:21:10.640 --> 3:21:12.600 and we had to drive to their house and grab 3:21:12.680 --> 3:21:15.080 a bunch of things in their house and throw them 3:21:15.120 --> 3:21:17.640 away because we weren't sure if the police were going 3:21:17.680 --> 3:21:19.960 to be showing up. And so after we did that 3:21:20.120 --> 3:21:23.200 that night, it was a very depressed, very sad night, 3:21:23.200 --> 3:21:25.800 and we all got extremely drunk, and three of the 3:21:25.879 --> 3:21:28.320 four of us are standing out on the front porch 3:21:28.600 --> 3:21:31.360 in front of like the house that we're at, and 3:21:31.400 --> 3:21:33.400 then the fourth person in the room, who was like 3:21:33.560 --> 3:21:35.760 roommates with the person who had just been arrested, comes 3:21:35.840 --> 3:21:39.480 out with the arrested person's flesh light and for reasons 3:21:39.600 --> 3:21:42.720 known only to them, and God hurls it at us. 3:21:42.920 --> 3:21:46.199 Now we're in like this is a we're in Richardson, Texas, 3:21:46.360 --> 3:21:49.960 and like it's kind of this walled off by concrete bricks, 3:21:50.000 --> 3:21:52.800 little front porch area, and we all bolt to get 3:21:52.800 --> 3:21:55.560 away from the flesh light and it hits the brick 3:21:55.720 --> 3:21:59.360 wall and the plastic case shatters, and then the thing 3:21:59.520 --> 3:22:03.800 hits the and the fake plast silicone vagina inside of 3:22:03.840 --> 3:22:10.640 it slithers out like like a living creature, probably lubricated 3:22:10.760 --> 3:22:16.840 by some sort of substance, and it was one of 3:22:16.879 --> 3:22:18.920 the most unsettling moments of my life. 3:22:19.200 --> 3:22:21.360 I'm really glad you could share that with the Strawberry that. 3:22:21.560 --> 3:22:22.440 The sound was incredible. 3:22:22.800 --> 3:22:26.080 It did, yeah, it it sounded a lot like if 3:22:26.080 --> 3:22:28.879 you've ever seen that episode Always Sonny where where Danny 3:22:28.920 --> 3:22:32.119 DeVito gets berthed from a couch like covered in sweat. 3:22:32.400 --> 3:22:35.280 It sounded a lot like that, I imagine, and we call. 3:22:35.240 --> 3:22:37.480 That experience the flesh lights dividend, the. 3:22:37.560 --> 3:22:41.360 Flush light dividend. That's right now, speaking of jacking off, 3:22:41.640 --> 3:22:44.120 the next product we're going to talk about is Jackery, 3:22:44.240 --> 3:22:47.880 a company that makes some really actually pretty cool like 3:22:48.000 --> 3:22:52.400 survival equipment, specifically like solar battery, solar panel and battery setups. 3:22:52.720 --> 3:22:54.600 And we're going to talk about that because it's definitely 3:22:54.720 --> 3:22:56.840 like of the products we saw here the most in 3:22:56.920 --> 3:23:00.400 our milieu, as like, yeah, the world is falling apart show. 3:23:01.040 --> 3:23:03.480 So we're gonna get to that. But first, here's some ads. 3:23:14.120 --> 3:23:18.080 We're back and we're talking about Jackery, which it's fun. 3:23:18.720 --> 3:23:20.480 One of the things I appreciate about this is that 3:23:21.040 --> 3:23:24.879 the hand job machine could have been called jack the Jackerree, 3:23:25.040 --> 3:23:28.000 or the company could have been called Jackerree. And likewise, 3:23:28.080 --> 3:23:30.160 the company that makes batteries and solar panels could have 3:23:30.200 --> 3:23:32.640 been called Handy because it's handy. They have a solar 3:23:32.720 --> 3:23:37.040 battery around when you're camping. Curious, interesting, interesting stuff. Yeah, 3:23:37.120 --> 3:23:39.200 a lot of thoughts there thoughts to be thought. 3:23:39.959 --> 3:23:43.760 Oddly, that ven diagram crossover is closer than I thought 3:23:43.760 --> 3:23:44.160 it would be. 3:23:45.400 --> 3:23:48.440 So Jackerree is a cut I would recommend googling their 3:23:48.440 --> 3:23:51.000 stuff they make. There's a lot the field of like 3:23:51.200 --> 3:23:53.760 solar batteries and panels is super crowded right now, and 3:23:53.879 --> 3:23:55.560 most of the batteries you're gonna are gonna be made 3:23:55.640 --> 3:23:57.879 like one of the same two or three factories. It's 3:23:57.920 --> 3:24:00.800 basically the same factory makes a bunch of Commpany's batteries, 3:24:00.840 --> 3:24:02.920 and a lot of them are very unsafe. There was 3:24:02.920 --> 3:24:05.120 a company that sent me some review samples, like a 3:24:05.160 --> 3:24:08.320 whole solar generator and battery last year that I was 3:24:08.400 --> 3:24:10.080 going to kind of do a piece about, you know, 3:24:10.160 --> 3:24:12.720 surviving on a solar generator, and then a month after 3:24:12.800 --> 3:24:14.879 it arrived, I was still testing it. It came out 3:24:14.920 --> 3:24:16.800 that they had burned down a bunch of people's houses 3:24:16.800 --> 3:24:20.320 because the batteries were insane. No, yeah, so you want 3:24:20.360 --> 3:24:23.000 to be careful with this stuff. Jackery is one of 3:24:23.040 --> 3:24:25.160 the I have had good luck with some of their products. 3:24:25.200 --> 3:24:27.280 They seem to be of a high build quality. I 3:24:27.360 --> 3:24:30.000 have not heard horror stories about them when you go 3:24:30.160 --> 3:24:32.600 to the their booth that people there seem to be 3:24:32.680 --> 3:24:34.960 genuinely knowledgeable, and the way in which they set it 3:24:35.120 --> 3:24:38.720 up and demo it suggests a degree of knowledge about 3:24:39.120 --> 3:24:41.280 the product and like what people want out of it. 3:24:41.440 --> 3:24:43.320 So one of the things they do have some really 3:24:43.520 --> 3:24:48.080 large including some like some solar batteries with generators with 3:24:48.160 --> 3:24:50.680 solar panel generators that are large enough to run like 3:24:50.720 --> 3:24:53.520 a deep freeze, which is really cool being able to 3:24:53.600 --> 3:24:56.160 do that. And the setup they had specifically was a 3:24:57.440 --> 3:25:00.360 like an actual, like serious, like solid It's like not 3:25:00.440 --> 3:25:03.480 one of those folding panel setups that goes on the 3:25:03.600 --> 3:25:06.960 roof of your car or truck alongside with like a 3:25:07.080 --> 3:25:10.080 tent like one of those via truck Talk tents for overlanding, 3:25:10.600 --> 3:25:13.560 and then plugs into you know, either their one thousand 3:25:13.640 --> 3:25:16.400 or like two thousand watt solar generator or yeah so 3:25:16.800 --> 3:25:20.080 or battery generators and just everything about the way it 3:25:20.200 --> 3:25:22.560 was set up seemed really practical. It seemed durable. It 3:25:22.560 --> 3:25:24.840 didn't feel like something was gonna fall apart. Yeah, I 3:25:24.959 --> 3:25:28.280 can see it being like a legitimate like even outside 3:25:28.320 --> 3:25:30.760 of the car, because that's more or less like a 3:25:30.840 --> 3:25:33.119 hobby it's sort of thing. But having one of these 3:25:33.200 --> 3:25:36.360 generators that you can actually run your fridge and your 3:25:36.400 --> 3:25:40.200 freezer and your lights in your house all like like 3:25:40.360 --> 3:25:41.879 they had some like in an outage. 3:25:41.720 --> 3:25:44.760 Microwaves, stuff, cooking implements, other other kind of stuff you 3:25:44.800 --> 3:25:47.240 might take for like like you know, like a week 3:25:47.280 --> 3:25:51.000 in mountain trip or something. The main the main roof 3:25:51.040 --> 3:25:55.879 mountain panel I think, was able to pull four hundred watts, 3:25:56.520 --> 3:25:58.800 and then it had two sliding out panels that can 3:25:58.840 --> 3:26:01.160 pull three hundred watts so that they could get. 3:26:02.120 --> 3:26:03.760 In a hot and in a in a sunny day. 3:26:03.760 --> 3:26:05.440 They said you could get like nine hundred wats an hour, 3:26:05.520 --> 3:26:05.840 which is. 3:26:05.879 --> 3:26:09.920 Exactly really good for n watts an hour, which is 3:26:10.000 --> 3:26:12.760 which is quite impressive, and they have all the batteries 3:26:12.800 --> 3:26:15.480 to store it. And by by far, I think Jackery 3:26:15.560 --> 3:26:18.880 is the most consistent company in this field that I 3:26:19.560 --> 3:26:23.880 could I routinely see high praise for because the feel 3:26:23.920 --> 3:26:27.720 of like portable solar like solar charging is kind of 3:26:28.080 --> 3:26:31.480 a little bit sketchy. Sometimes stuff can easily break, Things 3:26:31.520 --> 3:26:34.120 can be really easily over marked. Like I had a 3:26:34.200 --> 3:26:37.680 solar panel to to to charge my iPad that really 3:26:37.720 --> 3:26:39.959 only lasted like two weeks and it just completely stopped working. 3:26:40.400 --> 3:26:43.720 But I've only heard only heard good things about Jackery. 3:26:43.800 --> 3:26:46.000 I have not tested them out myself. I know Robert 3:26:46.040 --> 3:26:48.320 has some of them. Robert has some of their battery equipment, 3:26:48.640 --> 3:26:50.120 but hopefully we'll be able to get our hands on 3:26:50.240 --> 3:26:51.880 some of that this year. 3:26:52.400 --> 3:26:55.680 They also had a lot of different form factors of 3:26:55.760 --> 3:26:57.640 the same types of products, so a lot of smaller 3:26:57.760 --> 3:27:01.080 versions of things that seemed to be really good if 3:27:01.080 --> 3:27:03.160 you need a kind of more modular setup, that was 3:27:03.200 --> 3:27:03.560 for sure. 3:27:03.840 --> 3:27:06.039 Yeah, they had like large ones that you could basically 3:27:06.160 --> 3:27:09.360 have plugged into your house in case you lose power 3:27:09.720 --> 3:27:11.600 for a small period of time in order to like 3:27:11.760 --> 3:27:14.040 ensure that you don't like you don't actually have a 3:27:14.120 --> 3:27:16.800 period where the power's out. And then they had a 3:27:16.840 --> 3:27:19.240 lot of like really good camping sort of like off 3:27:19.320 --> 3:27:20.640 grid battery options. 3:27:20.720 --> 3:27:21.160 It's just cool. 3:27:21.200 --> 3:27:23.440 Take take a look at that if you are if 3:27:23.480 --> 3:27:25.199 you are someone who is in the kind of financial 3:27:25.240 --> 3:27:27.800 situation that you can prep in that way where you're 3:27:27.879 --> 3:27:31.800 you're buying like solar equipment and batteries, which definitely is 3:27:31.879 --> 3:27:36.080 never super cheap, right, I would recommend checking them out 3:27:36.080 --> 3:27:37.760 at least as you kind of do your research. 3:27:38.440 --> 3:27:40.720 There's like two more products I think I want to mention. 3:27:41.520 --> 3:27:43.600 The first is Shift. This is a company I was 3:27:43.600 --> 3:27:45.440 already familiar with, but I got to try these out. 3:27:45.840 --> 3:27:48.080 They look kind of like roller skates, but they're not 3:27:48.280 --> 3:27:52.359 roller skates. They are these sort of boots with motorized 3:27:52.400 --> 3:27:55.840 and locking wheels that attach onto your shoes. And their 3:27:55.920 --> 3:27:58.320 use case for this is like factory workers. It makes 3:27:58.360 --> 3:28:00.360 the meal, It makes them able to walk in move. 3:28:00.520 --> 3:28:03.080 They said two and a half times faster, considerably faster. 3:28:03.200 --> 3:28:05.080 I was able to walk at a pretty at a 3:28:05.120 --> 3:28:08.640 pretty decent speed. You can you can lock the wheels 3:28:08.720 --> 3:28:12.280 you need to like do more like delicate mobility tasks. 3:28:12.400 --> 3:28:14.279 Go upstairs stairs ladders. 3:28:15.000 --> 3:28:17.400 That was one way to even lock and unlock the 3:28:17.720 --> 3:28:20.840 shoes themselves from being used. There's like a certain gesture 3:28:20.840 --> 3:28:21.520 you had to make. 3:28:21.480 --> 3:28:24.160 By you lift up your heel I think it was, 3:28:24.240 --> 3:28:26.280 and it locks the shoes so the wheels don't come. 3:28:26.280 --> 3:28:29.240 You lift up your heel in twist and the boot 3:28:29.240 --> 3:28:32.560 itself had a hinge that was just under the Yeah, 3:28:32.840 --> 3:28:36.800 so I've seen these before. They look they look kind 3:28:36.840 --> 3:28:39.240 of fun, but they're four kind of factory work. So 3:28:39.720 --> 3:28:41.920 it's it's it's it's kind of a mixed bag where 3:28:42.480 --> 3:28:45.080 the device worked quite well, and it took me like 3:28:45.400 --> 3:28:47.920 just like maybe like like one minute to get used 3:28:47.920 --> 3:28:49.840 to it. Then I could then I was really smooth. 3:28:50.280 --> 3:28:53.520 But the actual operational use case they're envisioning is like 3:28:53.800 --> 3:28:57.959 being able to get like get more, get more productivity 3:28:58.040 --> 3:29:00.320 out of their workers the same amount of money for 3:29:00.400 --> 3:29:03.280 the same amount of money. So like, yeah, I think 3:29:03.640 --> 3:29:05.640 Robert made a pretty good comparison. Like last year we 3:29:05.720 --> 3:29:09.199 tried out this exoskeleton, which also you know, they talked 3:29:09.200 --> 3:29:11.880 a bit about a little bit about productivity specifically for 3:29:11.959 --> 3:29:15.480 like again factory workers, but that Exokelton was also designed 3:29:15.520 --> 3:29:19.400 to help that worker not damage their body. Like it 3:29:19.520 --> 3:29:21.760 was it was to make sure that they actually can 3:29:22.840 --> 3:29:25.320 can stay safer and not to as much damage to 3:29:25.320 --> 3:29:29.520 their knees, their joints, their back versus these little roller 3:29:29.600 --> 3:29:32.840 skate type shoes. Yeah, I have no such have no 3:29:33.000 --> 3:29:34.240 such ability. 3:29:35.360 --> 3:29:37.600 I mean it made you go faster, kind of like 3:29:37.720 --> 3:29:39.480 one of those walkways that you have in the airport. 3:29:39.879 --> 3:29:41.199 Who doesn't want to go a little bit faster. 3:29:42.720 --> 3:29:45.720 Yeah, that was the way the guy repped it too, 3:29:45.879 --> 3:29:48.880 where he was like, we have these factory workers. They're like, 3:29:48.959 --> 3:29:50.840 I have the best job in the company. Now, it's 3:29:50.920 --> 3:29:54.200 so fun skating around on these things. Nobody said that 3:29:54.320 --> 3:29:57.080 to you, bro, like, don't lie. 3:29:57.520 --> 3:29:58.320 It's a nice thought. 3:29:58.959 --> 3:30:02.480 He also clayed that there's not been one fall or 3:30:02.720 --> 3:30:06.400 injury with these things, on which I just I do 3:30:06.600 --> 3:30:10.200 not believe because I almost fell down to testing these out. 3:30:10.480 --> 3:30:13.960 I'm sure if you're carrying like heavy boxes like it's 3:30:14.200 --> 3:30:16.200 it's very easy for your weight to get to get 3:30:16.240 --> 3:30:18.840 away from yourself when you're literally walking on wheels like 3:30:18.879 --> 3:30:22.520 and it can be controlling. It actually is more intuitive 3:30:22.560 --> 3:30:24.720 than I thought it would be. But mistakes happen, and 3:30:25.320 --> 3:30:27.360 those those sorts of big claims are a little bit 3:30:27.720 --> 3:30:28.640 a little bit sketchy. 3:30:28.800 --> 3:30:31.320 I found myself kind of waving my arms a little 3:30:31.320 --> 3:30:33.360 bit in front of me to keep my balance. I 3:30:33.480 --> 3:30:35.160 wasn't like competent on them. 3:30:35.640 --> 3:30:35.840 Yeah. 3:30:36.800 --> 3:30:39.680 Yeah, just watching you both, I could see like, well, yeah, 3:30:39.680 --> 3:30:42.520 people are gonna get hurt. Now I don't I am 3:30:42.600 --> 3:30:45.600 sure because it seems to be easy enough to use 3:30:45.959 --> 3:30:47.960 that I suspect it would. You could really get a 3:30:48.000 --> 3:30:50.039 lot of extra money out of your workers as an 3:30:50.080 --> 3:30:53.000 employer using these things, but at the cost of some 3:30:53.280 --> 3:30:56.400 of them are gonna like fucking eat shit and hurt themselves, 3:30:57.040 --> 3:30:59.360 which is not like in the grand scheme of corporate evil, 3:30:59.440 --> 3:31:01.840 especially if the show where everybody's like talking about the 3:31:02.000 --> 3:31:04.520 potential of AI to eliminate tens of millions of jobs. 3:31:04.760 --> 3:31:06.920 Not really, it doesn't really scan. And I think we're 3:31:06.920 --> 3:31:09.560 still putting this on the good episode because like they 3:31:09.680 --> 3:31:12.400 worked in a way that they were technically impressive. We 3:31:12.640 --> 3:31:15.320 just found it kind of upsetting that they were bragging about, 3:31:15.440 --> 3:31:17.800 like you can get more money out of your already 3:31:17.879 --> 3:31:22.360 exploited workforce with these. But I could see someone just 3:31:22.440 --> 3:31:25.360 getting these and because they would allow you if you 3:31:25.440 --> 3:31:26.800 find it, like yeah, if you if you live in 3:31:26.879 --> 3:31:28.240 a walkable city. 3:31:28.280 --> 3:31:31.039 Cityable neighborhood, it can make your commute times much. 3:31:30.959 --> 3:31:33.680 Faster and still probably safer than like you less risk 3:31:33.920 --> 3:31:35.520 maybe than like a bike or something like that. 3:31:35.760 --> 3:31:37.920 Yeah, I want to see somebody wear those at a 3:31:38.000 --> 3:31:38.760 roller skating rink. 3:31:39.480 --> 3:31:41.920 So yeah, that's called that's called Shift Robotics. I believe 3:31:41.920 --> 3:31:42.840 they're based out of Texas. 3:31:43.080 --> 3:31:43.320 Yeah. 3:31:43.959 --> 3:31:46.080 The last thing I want to talk about. For both 3:31:46.320 --> 3:31:50.000 mine and Robert's job, we use a lot of computer screens. 3:31:50.879 --> 3:31:53.440 I'm looking in Robert's hotel room right now where we're recording. 3:31:53.800 --> 3:31:56.920 He has a laptop hooked up to a second monitor. 3:31:57.200 --> 3:32:00.120 I have a very similar setup I have. I have 3:32:00.160 --> 3:32:02.920 a laptop and a secondary monitor on my desktop. I 3:32:02.959 --> 3:32:05.160 have like three or four monitors always running at the 3:32:05.200 --> 3:32:08.120 same time, just because of the absurdity of what our 3:32:08.200 --> 3:32:10.640 works sometimes entails, so it could be hard to get 3:32:10.680 --> 3:32:13.080 things done on a single screen. And we saw this 3:32:13.240 --> 3:32:17.119 one product that looked just like a like a very 3:32:17.240 --> 3:32:20.520 like thick keyboard with a with a touchpad, but it 3:32:20.640 --> 3:32:25.080 had these like AR glasses attached. Now, AR is a 3:32:25.240 --> 3:32:28.040 tricky feel. We tried a lot of AR stuff last year, 3:32:28.160 --> 3:32:30.240 most of it some of it was okay, some of 3:32:30.280 --> 3:32:32.520 it was a little bit finicky. But this company was 3:32:32.560 --> 3:32:36.760 called Sightful. Yeah, and what this basically was is that 3:32:37.280 --> 3:32:40.120 it was a fully functioning computer but instead of a 3:32:40.680 --> 3:32:43.440 instead of just having a regular display, it has a 3:32:43.480 --> 3:32:46.760 display built into these yeah, into these glasses. 3:32:46.920 --> 3:32:49.400 The product itself looks like just the bottom half of 3:32:49.440 --> 3:32:52.000 a laptop, like the keyboard part that holds the PCU 3:32:52.080 --> 3:32:55.400 and shit with like this weird flappy thing attached to 3:32:55.480 --> 3:32:59.200 the keyboard part that holds like a set of glasses 3:32:59.400 --> 3:33:02.040 that are plugged in directly to the laptop. That's how 3:33:02.080 --> 3:33:02.840 it like looks. 3:33:03.680 --> 3:33:05.840 And when you put the glasses on, you get like 3:33:06.200 --> 3:33:08.560 four screens that pop up. The screens aren't too big, 3:33:08.600 --> 3:33:10.720 they're not too small. You can change the size by 3:33:11.160 --> 3:33:15.080 using using the touchpad. And this required a lot less 3:33:15.600 --> 3:33:18.200 like like a like a focusing like you usually when 3:33:18.200 --> 3:33:21.320 you put on ar AR glasses you have to kind 3:33:21.360 --> 3:33:25.680 of dial in the focal length to make them look right. 3:33:26.760 --> 3:33:28.879 But this was all very clear. The text was easy 3:33:28.959 --> 3:33:32.040 to read, Changing from one screen to another was pretty 3:33:32.320 --> 3:33:35.240 was pretty easy. They had they had They had a 3:33:35.280 --> 3:33:37.400 pass through mode like a lot of good ar does. 3:33:37.760 --> 3:33:39.920 They had a mode where you can lock the screens 3:33:39.959 --> 3:33:41.200 in place so you can turn your head and they 3:33:41.200 --> 3:33:44.000 don't move. They had another version where you just with 3:33:44.120 --> 3:33:46.440 like keystrokes, you could turn your head and the screens 3:33:46.440 --> 3:33:49.200 follow you. So it was it was a pretty it 3:33:49.280 --> 3:33:50.280 was a pretty useful device. 3:33:50.400 --> 3:33:52.200 Yeah. You could press a button and it would go 3:33:52.520 --> 3:33:54.720 the screens would disappear, Like if you're walking while using it, 3:33:54.760 --> 3:33:56.360 you could press a button and it would go clear, 3:33:56.440 --> 3:33:57.840 so you wouldn't see it, but you could see where 3:33:57.840 --> 3:33:58.879 you were walking pass through. 3:33:58.959 --> 3:33:59.119 Yeah. 3:33:59.200 --> 3:34:01.280 Like I typed it an email or two, and like 3:34:01.400 --> 3:34:04.640 did some googling on it, and I very quickly adapted 3:34:04.760 --> 3:34:08.119 to the screens being virtual but still using a physical keyboard. 3:34:08.560 --> 3:34:10.640 I we didn't get like motion sick with it. 3:34:11.600 --> 3:34:12.200 It was not. Now. 3:34:12.400 --> 3:34:14.320 I think this is like either the first or second 3:34:14.400 --> 3:34:18.720 iteration of this product. First the first to market the first. Yeah, 3:34:18.920 --> 3:34:22.080 I think there is some ways to improve. It runs 3:34:22.080 --> 3:34:25.720 its own Android operating system, which you know, if you're 3:34:25.760 --> 3:34:28.440 trying to download applications. The fact that it can't run 3:34:28.520 --> 3:34:32.000 Windows or Linux or even Apple's system, you know that 3:34:32.240 --> 3:34:34.640 that could be a bit of a limitation. It only 3:34:34.760 --> 3:34:38.119 had like two hundred and two hundred and fifty gigs 3:34:38.160 --> 3:34:38.400 of work. 3:34:38.480 --> 3:34:40.960 It wasn't really a full storage and power. It's a 3:34:41.040 --> 3:34:44.959 little bit beefier than your phone. Yea right. The company 3:34:45.160 --> 3:34:49.560 the product, by the way, is called spacetop. Yeah, Sightful 3:34:49.640 --> 3:34:53.560 is the company's spacetop is the is the the actual 3:34:53.640 --> 3:34:55.720 product itself, And yeah. 3:34:55.600 --> 3:34:58.360 I uh, we're gonna We're gonna keep our eye on it. 3:34:58.520 --> 3:35:00.440 Yeah, I wouldn't buy the first of this thing. It's 3:35:00.480 --> 3:35:03.280 about twenty two hundred bucks, which is like upper mid 3:35:03.400 --> 3:35:05.040 level cost for a laptop. 3:35:06.520 --> 3:35:08.560 My issue is at based on how expensive it is, 3:35:08.600 --> 3:35:12.160 the laptop itself isn't powerful enough to justify that price. Certainly, 3:35:12.480 --> 3:35:14.440 the fact that you know, I can act like I 3:35:14.560 --> 3:35:18.640 have four monitors wherever I go, that is, that is 3:35:18.760 --> 3:35:20.680 very convenient. I think I just need the laptop to 3:35:20.760 --> 3:35:22.959 be a little bit more powerful, especially with how many 3:35:23.000 --> 3:35:25.200 tabs they have open it at all times. Having only 3:35:25.280 --> 3:35:28.000 eight gigs of RAM just will not cut it. But 3:35:28.360 --> 3:35:30.760 I'm certainly certainly hopeful that we'll be able to see 3:35:30.800 --> 3:35:32.200 small improvements going forward. 3:35:32.400 --> 3:35:35.360 Indeed, yeah, they had mentioned it as being a web 3:35:35.480 --> 3:35:38.440 first device instead of anything else. 3:35:38.680 --> 3:35:39.160 That makes sense. 3:35:39.280 --> 3:35:41.720 Yeah, Yeah, it's like a Chromebook, and I think in 3:35:41.879 --> 3:35:44.119 terms of like it's actual yeah, efficacy. 3:35:44.040 --> 3:35:46.080 Very similar to a Chromebook, like operation wise. 3:35:46.200 --> 3:35:48.320 But my hope is that like the kind of technology 3:35:48.720 --> 3:35:52.320 they've developed, it will get you know, if it's successful, 3:35:52.320 --> 3:35:54.520 they'll make more prewer. Now I do kind of worry 3:35:54.520 --> 3:35:56.560 about how successful will be because like Garrison and I 3:35:56.640 --> 3:35:58.480 were both like, oh, this is perfect for what we do, 3:35:59.160 --> 3:36:02.040 but we have a very specific use case for our machinets. 3:36:02.080 --> 3:36:04.280 And I'm not sure like how many other people are 3:36:04.320 --> 3:36:06.720 in our position. But I was really impressed with just 3:36:06.840 --> 3:36:08.720 like how well it immediately worked. 3:36:09.320 --> 3:36:12.119 Yeah, No, I I was happy with it. You can 3:36:12.200 --> 3:36:14.120 hook up an external monitor if you if you want to, 3:36:14.959 --> 3:36:16.280 So that's that's nice. 3:36:16.440 --> 3:36:19.560 And I am a glasses wearer, and so one stuff 3:36:19.560 --> 3:36:21.040 that they had for me is that they took my 3:36:21.160 --> 3:36:23.360 glasses and approximated my prescription. 3:36:23.840 --> 3:36:24.560 Oh that's cool. 3:36:24.680 --> 3:36:27.920 Yeah, and they slid on these magnetic sort of like 3:36:28.040 --> 3:36:31.080 eyeglass pieces onto the headset that you're wearing, or like 3:36:31.120 --> 3:36:33.480 the glasses that you're wearing. That way, I could actually 3:36:33.520 --> 3:36:35.480 use it without wearing my prescription glasses. 3:36:35.680 --> 3:36:35.920 Nice. 3:36:36.080 --> 3:36:38.040 Yeah, And that was really It's stuff like that that 3:36:38.200 --> 3:36:40.520 lets you know that people making something didn't just aren't 3:36:40.600 --> 3:36:42.280 just like trying to rush some shit out the door 3:36:42.360 --> 3:36:44.879 to make money, Like, Oh, you put some thought into that, motherfucker. 3:36:45.360 --> 3:36:48.520 I appreciate that. And this all leads us the easily 3:36:48.600 --> 3:36:51.640 the best product of the entire show. Honestly, the only 3:36:51.760 --> 3:36:53.960 one really worth talking about, Garrison, Will you hand me 3:36:54.040 --> 3:36:55.920 the flying car brochure? 3:36:56.760 --> 3:37:00.359 So Jesus Christ, this is the CEO. 3:37:00.320 --> 3:37:04.400 Of flying cars. Robotaxis is the term we heard a lot. 3:37:04.760 --> 3:37:07.760 We went to a panel that was like serious people 3:37:07.840 --> 3:37:10.760 in the robotaxi industry, which they admitted does not exist. 3:37:11.000 --> 3:37:14.520 By the way, advance to air mobility, of air mobility, 3:37:14.640 --> 3:37:16.000 it was the acronym AAM. 3:37:16.160 --> 3:37:19.280 Yeah. No, there are several companies that are using effectively 3:37:19.400 --> 3:37:21.560 like these are. Some of them are like ultra lights. 3:37:21.680 --> 3:37:23.360 But there was one of the companies that came here 3:37:23.440 --> 3:37:25.760 bragged like you can buy buy a plane that doesn't 3:37:25.760 --> 3:37:28.120 require a pilot's license because it's so light, but it's 3:37:28.160 --> 3:37:30.800 still a plane, which seems like a horrible idea to me. 3:37:31.520 --> 3:37:35.160 But there are some real companies who are like testing 3:37:35.200 --> 3:37:37.840 out electronic aero taxis. Some of these are this is 3:37:37.920 --> 3:37:41.080 not vaporware. These products exist. Now, what doesn't exist is 3:37:41.120 --> 3:37:43.840 the legal framework to allow people to do this. Like 3:37:43.920 --> 3:37:47.040 the panelists were like openly like, we want this to 3:37:47.120 --> 3:37:49.360 be an industry, but first there have to be it 3:37:49.520 --> 3:37:52.800 has to be legal right now, we don't know, like 3:37:52.920 --> 3:37:55.000 they they're still trying to figure out like what the 3:37:55.080 --> 3:37:56.720 rules are going to be. They're hoping by the end 3:37:56.720 --> 3:37:59.480 of this year the FAA puts out like a temporary 3:37:59.600 --> 3:38:03.120 rule so about how robot air robo taxes work, and 3:38:03.200 --> 3:38:05.879 also how they call them verta ports, which is because 3:38:05.879 --> 3:38:08.080 these are all vertical takeoff and landing craft. 3:38:08.959 --> 3:38:11.000 At least the one that we saw on the show 3:38:11.080 --> 3:38:15.080 floor looks like a looks like a Lamborghini with a 3:38:15.240 --> 3:38:16.840 massive drone. 3:38:16.959 --> 3:38:20.720 Like a DGI type round the top. And that's that's 3:38:20.760 --> 3:38:22.280 the one I want to talk about, because all of 3:38:22.320 --> 3:38:26.560 those were real products. The exit paying the air road product, 3:38:26.600 --> 3:38:29.040 in my opinion, is absolutely not. It's built as a 3:38:29.080 --> 3:38:32.840 low altitude air mobility exploring. Yeah, it looks like a 3:38:33.120 --> 3:38:37.200 huge drone like you'd buy at a fucking best Buy, 3:38:38.240 --> 3:38:41.600 attached to a Lamborghini, and apparently the whole drone part, 3:38:41.680 --> 3:38:44.160 all of the rotors fold back into the body when 3:38:44.160 --> 3:38:45.760 you're driving it as a car like a. 3:38:46.080 --> 3:38:48.600 Like a transformer, like a transformer. 3:38:49.120 --> 3:38:51.440 And the reason why I say this is the best 3:38:51.480 --> 3:38:54.280 product in CEES is not that I think it would 3:38:54.360 --> 3:38:58.240 work or be safe. Because we talked to two people, 3:38:58.800 --> 3:39:00.680 and the person who was told to us is their 3:39:00.760 --> 3:39:03.760 technical expert, and neither of them could answer if it 3:39:03.879 --> 3:39:04.800 had airbags. 3:39:05.200 --> 3:39:09.320 They did say probably. They did say probably, which isn't 3:39:09.400 --> 3:39:10.440 what you want to hear. 3:39:11.000 --> 3:39:13.560 No, that you should have that answer. That's not a 3:39:13.600 --> 3:39:16.560 tough question, that's not a gotcha does your car have airbags? 3:39:17.160 --> 3:39:19.040 First, first, the PR guy that we were talking to 3:39:19.520 --> 3:39:22.199 was very open about knowing almost nothing about the technical 3:39:22.240 --> 3:39:24.720 aspects of this device. And then when we talked to 3:39:24.800 --> 3:39:27.920 the technical person, they too didn't know very much about it. 3:39:28.120 --> 3:39:31.160 So like, just isn't very reassuring, Like. 3:39:31.200 --> 3:39:32.800 And I even tried to do it the easy way 3:39:32.840 --> 3:39:34.880 where I was like, well, I know ultra light aircraft 3:39:34.959 --> 3:39:37.720 you don't need a pilot's license for so do you 3:39:37.879 --> 3:39:41.320 need Does this qualify? And they were basically said, no, 3:39:41.560 --> 3:39:43.920 we don't know, we don't know. Yeah, yeah, it'll take 3:39:44.000 --> 3:39:47.360 some kind of license. Probably. What kind of range does 3:39:47.400 --> 3:39:49.520 it get? They said twenty kilometers. 3:39:49.000 --> 3:39:51.600 By air about twenty minutes per charge. 3:39:51.800 --> 3:39:55.000 Yeah, which seems like a dangerously short amount of time 3:39:55.080 --> 3:39:59.120 to be flying you and a loved one potentially in 3:39:59.280 --> 3:40:00.920 a thing it is. 3:40:01.120 --> 3:40:03.280 It is pretty low altitude, I think, they said it 3:40:03.400 --> 3:40:05.880 max is out at around one hundred one hundred, No, 3:40:06.080 --> 3:40:09.600 they said hundred meters. Sorry, so it's really not for 3:40:09.720 --> 3:40:12.600 going up super high. And I when we went to 3:40:12.680 --> 3:40:16.040 the more like expert panel, a lot of these use 3:40:16.080 --> 3:40:20.119 cases for this, they imagine is kind of replacing helicopters 3:40:20.160 --> 3:40:25.240 in cities. There's like metavac use cases. But a lot 3:40:25.280 --> 3:40:27.440 of people were talking about like testing these things out 3:40:27.520 --> 3:40:30.760 in New York where rich people use helicopters to get 3:40:30.760 --> 3:40:33.120 around the city, and this is what they want to 3:40:33.200 --> 3:40:37.520 replace them with. Because these can be purely electric, these 3:40:37.560 --> 3:40:39.680 can be much more because these can be much quieter. 3:40:40.280 --> 3:40:42.240 So that was what a lot of what they were 3:40:42.440 --> 3:40:45.280 talking about. However, again most of the panel was just 3:40:45.360 --> 3:40:48.760 them just complaining that the government hasn't done enough work 3:40:49.000 --> 3:40:50.280 to make this a real industry. 3:40:51.000 --> 3:40:54.000 Garrison, I got, you're not aware of this topic. It 3:40:54.080 --> 3:40:56.960 just handed me the flyer we got from them that 3:40:57.000 --> 3:40:59.760 I don't think either of us read through. Here's their story. 3:41:00.000 --> 3:41:05.520 Oh Boy, Sale Beyond Limits twenty thirteen. Zoo Deli ignited 3:41:05.760 --> 3:41:09.400 Erot with a daring dream to turn the enchanting broomsticks 3:41:09.440 --> 3:41:12.840 of Harry Potter into tangible wonder. Oh No, a tribe 3:41:12.879 --> 3:41:15.920 of daring mind set forth on the thrilling journey of 3:41:16.000 --> 3:41:19.320 crafting electric marvels that could take humans to the skies 3:41:19.840 --> 3:41:24.800 through tireless exploration. The first ever prototype, the flying motorcycle. Gracefully, 3:41:25.040 --> 3:41:30.000 this is all a Harry Potter thing. Some madman from 3:41:30.160 --> 3:41:32.480 China fell so in love with Harry Potter that he 3:41:32.640 --> 3:41:37.240 made a death car. I'm back around to loving it again. 3:41:38.600 --> 3:41:43.039 Average tech industry guy brain poisoned by Harry Potter creates 3:41:43.160 --> 3:41:43.800 death device. 3:41:44.520 --> 3:41:46.520 I feel like this guy and the plant pet Sky 3:41:46.680 --> 3:41:47.920 are probably like pretty tight. 3:41:48.959 --> 3:41:50.840 They're both the same kind of Why is there so 3:41:50.879 --> 3:41:54.520 many apocalypse tent based around Harry Potter? What's going on 3:41:54.720 --> 3:41:55.520 in this industry? 3:41:56.280 --> 3:41:58.880 And it is so The other brochure they had it 3:41:59.000 --> 3:42:02.800 shows like flying car, the modular flying car, which looks 3:42:02.879 --> 3:42:05.680 like a cyber truck because if it had like you know, 3:42:06.200 --> 3:42:07.480 you can get a truck, you can put like a 3:42:07.840 --> 3:42:10.480 bed cap on the beds. It's basically a big it's 3:42:10.520 --> 3:42:12.520 like a cyber truck with one of those, but the 3:42:12.560 --> 3:42:16.640 bed cap opens up to deploy like a quad copter 3:42:16.800 --> 3:42:19.359 thing that human beings can ride in kind. 3:42:19.200 --> 3:42:23.680 Of like sound wave in Transform, which is. 3:42:24.280 --> 3:42:26.760 It's a cool idea from like a kid's point of view. 3:42:27.360 --> 3:42:29.800 I think the idea here is that you know, John 3:42:29.879 --> 3:42:32.400 McAfee used to do this thing where he would live 3:42:32.400 --> 3:42:34.720 in the desert with a cult of weirdos and they 3:42:34.720 --> 3:42:37.120 would fly around on gliders until he got his nephew 3:42:37.160 --> 3:42:39.720 and an old man killed and a glider crash. This 3:42:40.000 --> 3:42:43.200 is this is the dream yeah of that Harry Potter fan. 3:42:43.400 --> 3:42:46.280 I mean, I this The reason why I'm actually very 3:42:46.360 --> 3:42:48.920 pro this product is because the only people that are 3:42:48.959 --> 3:42:52.280 going to use these are really rich. Yes, yes, I 3:42:52.400 --> 3:42:55.040 think there's a high gence this could take out a 3:42:55.240 --> 3:42:55.920 lot of them. 3:42:56.200 --> 3:42:59.600 This this has the best chance of dropping multiple billionaires 3:42:59.640 --> 3:43:02.720 of anything since the Death's Up, Like we felt from 3:43:02.760 --> 3:43:07.000 one hundred meters in the air just crashing out of 3:43:07.080 --> 3:43:11.080 the sky and Santa Monica and sand billionaires just taking 3:43:11.200 --> 3:43:12.840 out whole lanes of traffic. 3:43:13.000 --> 3:43:15.920 Imaginers. I mentionined to walking through the park one day 3:43:16.120 --> 3:43:20.480 and a billionaire comes flying down from the sky lands 3:43:20.560 --> 3:43:22.880 in like a two million dollar drone. 3:43:23.280 --> 3:43:25.840 The prototype that they say they got to fly was 3:43:25.920 --> 3:43:29.320 two tons. Wow, you could really do a lot of 3:43:29.440 --> 3:43:30.360 damage with that. 3:43:32.000 --> 3:43:34.520 Well, this is this, This is all quite exciting. 3:43:34.760 --> 3:43:36.760 Keep your eye on the sky. Folks, maybe wear a 3:43:36.840 --> 3:43:41.680 helmet for a while until this all shakes out. Like 3:43:41.920 --> 3:43:43.720 there's the story in the news right now that like 3:43:43.840 --> 3:43:46.760 some dude in Portland had the fucking door of that 3:43:46.840 --> 3:43:50.080 Alaska Airlines flight in his backyard. And I can't wait 3:43:50.240 --> 3:43:53.520 until that's like a third of Elon musk, just like 3:43:53.800 --> 3:43:57.800 Lance in someone's yard, like two million dollars. Oh yet, Yeah, 3:43:58.040 --> 3:44:01.280 And by the way, if fucking eat a billionaire's carcass 3:44:01.360 --> 3:44:04.160 winds up in my lawn, I got a new punch 3:44:04.200 --> 3:44:07.959 bowl with their skull. I'm going to harvest their. 3:44:07.840 --> 3:44:10.800 Possibly called the Billionaires Division, the Billionaires Dividend. 3:44:11.879 --> 3:44:15.640 Well, all right, everybody, anyone, Tapia you have anything to plug? 3:44:16.480 --> 3:44:18.880 Oh yeah, you can find me on Twitter or x 3:44:19.320 --> 3:44:22.320 at cut Mora, or if you want to learn a 3:44:22.320 --> 3:44:25.560 little bit more about me and my interactive and immersive work, 3:44:25.760 --> 3:44:28.840 you can see my work at tapiamora dot com. 3:44:29.440 --> 3:44:31.240 You can also see her work in my book A 3:44:31.280 --> 3:44:33.959 Brief History of Ice, where she did all the illustrations, 3:44:34.120 --> 3:44:36.040 or in my book After the Revolution where she did 3:44:36.080 --> 3:44:38.920 all the illustrations, or in the sequel which will come 3:44:38.959 --> 3:44:41.840 out when I finish those last two fucking chapters like 3:44:42.000 --> 3:44:46.080 three years from now, huh or in Vegas, yeah tomorrow 3:44:46.959 --> 3:44:53.760 to Laura, all right, well we're done. Hey, We'll be 3:44:53.840 --> 3:44:57.200 back Monday with more episodes every week from now until 3:44:57.200 --> 3:44:58.320 the heat death of the Universe. 3:44:58.959 --> 3:45:01.280 It Could Happen Here is production of cool Zone Media. 3:45:01.520 --> 3:45:04.199 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:45:04.240 --> 3:45:07.360 Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:45:07.360 --> 3:45:09.880 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 3:45:10.320 --> 3:45:12.440 You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 3:45:12.520 --> 3:45:15.520 monthly at coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. 3:45:15.720 --> 3:45:16.520 Thanks for listening.