1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: All media. 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 8 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 9 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions. 10 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: Hello everyone, it's me today, James, and I'm joined by 11 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: Betevan from the ypyj Information Authors, and we're going to 12 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: discuss today and chiefly that the Turkish bombing campaign against 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: it which has been happening in the last few weeks 14 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: and the last few months and the last few years. 15 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: So we wanted to set that in context for you. 16 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: And everyone's attention has been very much focused on other conflicts, 17 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,279 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean this one isn't important, and it's 18 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: one that obviously listeners will be familiar with, so we 19 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: wanted to bring you an update on that. Welcome, very 20 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: vun Hello, thank you. 21 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: You're welcome. 22 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 3: Okay, happy to be here today. 23 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 4: Good. 24 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: Let's start by I think just in case people need 25 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: a refresher or they haven't listened to some of the 26 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: other stuff. 27 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: Talk about what's happening in Brosova. 28 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: And why they I guess why it's important and why 29 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: it's unique and what makes it special. 30 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 3: Okay, So actually right now in for more than ten years, 31 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 3: there's a revolution happening. I think most people heard that. 32 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 3: For some twenty eleven and so on, there was like 33 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 3: something called the Arab Strings. But actually in the same 34 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 3: time in this region in northern East Syria actually also 35 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 3: called like in the northern eastern part of Syria, there's 36 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 3: a region called which is like a big part of 37 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 3: Kotish population. There's also Christian population like Assyria and Arminium 38 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 3: population and also our population. Like it's a very colorful region, 39 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 3: you can say. So in this region twenty eleven, in 40 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 3: this time and then twenty twelve, a revolusion started, which 41 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 3: is actually based on a long term struggle of the 42 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 3: Kurdish movement and its experiences. And the revolution was like 43 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 3: mostly based on the idea to gain democratic autonomy and 44 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 3: today gain like democratic self administration. Why because like the 45 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 3: Syrian regime on the one hand was very oppressive towards 46 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 3: the Kurdish people, and on the other hand, like it 47 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 3: was like outwed Carrian regime, so there was like this 48 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: wish to create something different, which was actually created here 49 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 3: in the region in Rova. Yeah, so I think this 50 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 3: we can say at first, like what happened was that 51 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 3: the revolution started and until today it's continuing. Like it's 52 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 3: a very like basic change of people's life. We can 53 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 3: say that happened here, like yeah, democratic administration in all 54 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 3: areas of life, and also like for example, a great 55 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 3: deal of a women's organization to achieve also women's freedom. 56 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 3: So the solutions like based on these principles of democratic 57 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 3: self administration, of women's freedom and also of ecologies. 58 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, perhaps you can explain people who aren't familiar a 59 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: little bit more about the women's revolution, because I think 60 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: that is something that's extremely unique and that people might 61 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: not have like if they've heard of it, perhaps they 62 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: haven't really you know, I think the mainstream press hasn't 63 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: covered particularly well. So if you could explain like maybe 64 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: something about the co chair system or the relationship between 65 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: yourselves and the yepigae and how that works. 66 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. So actually I was just like speaking about the 67 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 3: like when the revolution was happening, so from the beginning 68 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 3: online women also took place in it, like which was 69 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 3: already the CAS in the Kurdish freedom movement in general, 70 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 3: like that woman was like equally were equally taking part 71 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 3: in it, and also always founded their own organizations, like 72 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 3: not like a substitute to a general organization or something 73 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 3: like this, but actually like their own organization that at 74 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: the same time cooperate with the general organization. So there 75 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 3: was already this principle of women's autonomy. So this was 76 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 3: also adopted in reservoirs. So in all areas, which also 77 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 3: includes like political areas, areas of daily life, but also 78 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 3: military fields, women organized. So actually in the beginning of 79 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 3: the solution, they were like the society's kind of self 80 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 3: defense forces building us and in the beginning there were 81 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 3: already women in it. And then there was also the 82 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: foundation of a white p GAY like the People's Defense Forces. 83 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 3: But after this also the White PG Women's Protection Units 84 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 3: were founded, so actually it's like a fully autonomous women's 85 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 3: units that take care of defending their homeland on the 86 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 3: one hand, but on the other hand also made like 87 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 3: a great deal of change in the society in the 88 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 3: daily life of women, because in a region that was 89 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:42,679 Speaker 3: before like maybe to somebody like feudal or like because 90 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 3: of the Authoria Tennessy in the state, like there was 91 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 3: no protection for women's rights or something like this. And 92 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 3: for example, there was like the traditions of marrying a 93 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 3: woman at a young age or something like this. This 94 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 3: was actually changed by those women's solution, Like the everyday 95 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 3: life of women was changed and is still changing. Like 96 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 3: it's still a struggle because it means changing the society 97 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 3: in general. Yeah, so there's like in every area of 98 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 3: life today there's like autonomous women's organization and the vices, 99 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 3: which makes was maybe the most like profound a woman's 100 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 3: solutions that on to now is happening, I think. So 101 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 3: it's like really important like samplers for a woman everywhere 102 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 3: in the work. 103 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, very much, And it is a genuinely profound change. 104 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: Having spent a little bit of time there earlier this year, 105 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: it's very notable that you spent a lot of time 106 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: in that part of the world, how different things are. 107 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,679 Speaker 1: And then perhaps we should talk about the battle against 108 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: the so called Islamic state or dasher Isis or whatever 109 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: you want to call it. In the role that THEPGG 110 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: and SDF play in that I can explain a little 111 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: about that fight and the fighting that happened, and also 112 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: like the tremendous number of people who died fighting or 113 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: were marked in the language is used by the revolution 114 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: about them. 115 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 3: So like uh, in general, I think everyone and the 116 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 3: world first listened to the name most of white woman's 117 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 3: protection units and the relationship to ISIS. But actually from 118 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 3: the beginning on they fought like against this kind of 119 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: let's say, like different like fundamentalists or mercenary groups that 120 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: were existing in the region. And when ISIS was coming up, 121 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 3: like the biggest almost non battle that actually the world 122 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 3: for the first time really saw was the battle for 123 00:07:54,000 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 3: Pubani where for example, the hite PJ it was like 124 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 3: very very limited possibilities and the YPGA fought against the 125 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: ISIS and actually succeeded like to defeat iss and to 126 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 3: defend the city of Kobani, which was kind of like 127 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 3: a breaking point where things started to turn around. Or 128 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 3: we have also had the point where for example, Shenga 129 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 3: was attacked, which is like in South kot de Son 130 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 3: It's not like in the era region, it's not even 131 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 3: in the same region. But the YPJA also played like 132 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 3: the role and opening a corridor for the people who 133 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 3: tried to flee for the yd people who like are 134 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 3: people who have faced like many genocides in history, and 135 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 3: in order to save them from the genocide of ISIS, 136 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 3: the YPJA opened a corridor to help them to flee. 137 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 3: So and there are like many stories or like in 138 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 3: the end the operation of the city of Racca, which 139 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 3: was kind of known like as the center of the ISIS, 140 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 3: which also we can say like the women's force paid 141 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 3: like a junior rank god. So there are many examples 142 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 3: where we can say, like how deciding for examples, as 143 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 3: the struggle of the Viba was for the defeat of ISIS. 144 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 3: And I think on the other hand, we also have 145 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 3: to say that it is not completely defeated, because it 146 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 3: seemed like some support from outside structures, like from Turkey, 147 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 3: so there are still some like sales or sample. There 148 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 3: are a lot of details detainees like before that was 149 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 3: happening try to break out from the detention centers in 150 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, So it's not like it's completely vanished 151 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 3: from the earth, but the actual defeat was like reached 152 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 3: by the might go. 153 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 2: For Yeah, I think it's very important talk. 154 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: Like you spoke about those like incarcerated ice form of 155 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: ISIS fighters, right and their attempt to break out. I 156 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: think that's maybe a good chance for us to talk 157 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: about like some other form of ISIS fighters uh and 158 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: like starting in I think it was called Turkey, called 159 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: Operation Peace Spring, I think right, like the these these 160 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: Turkish incursions into Uh, into into Rosa, into like and 161 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: and into like Syrian territory. Can you explain a little 162 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: bit about like how I guess that this will get 163 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: us to the modern day and and the bombing, but like, 164 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: perhaps you can explain how this started. Obviously Turkey has 165 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: been opposed to the Kurdish freedom movement since its inception, 166 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: right since the very beginning and in the last century, 167 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: but preaps you could explain like this series of ongoing 168 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: Turkish aggressions against what's happening in Java now, and like 169 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: how that began and how that's manifested itself over the years. 170 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 3: Oh yes, like after ISIS was defeated to some degree, 171 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: actually Turky for itself started occupation attacks, like in twenty 172 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 3: eighteen nineteen and started the occupation was first against Afrine 173 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 3: and then against til Khania and Guido speir which are 174 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 3: all like very important regions of Bolsheva that are like 175 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 3: directly next to the Turkish border, like you see, like 176 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 3: directly in between Syria and the Turkey, like next to 177 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 3: the Turkish borders too. They directly attacked these cities next 178 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 3: to the border, which actually most of our cities are 179 00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 3: directly next to the border, and they occupy them. Yeah, 180 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 3: I think that's important to understand like a little bit 181 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 3: because actually there took plans to occupy, occupy like the 182 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 3: region along the Wad are not only the cities that 183 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 3: they occupied until now. This a very very violent war 184 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 3: with using aircraft and so on. Like also in the 185 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 3: last years UH took he very much invested into drone 186 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 3: technology and so on, and they used also chemical weapons 187 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 3: like very famous in two nineteen the video of a 188 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 3: young child the name Mohammad went around the world that 189 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:48,599 Speaker 3: like was like bond by phosphorus UH in Seracania in 190 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 3: the occupation attack. So like actually it's a like a 191 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 3: war that is smallest sleep but also with the most 192 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 3: like dirty yeah methods that took his waging in the region. 193 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: And after this, like we can't say, like after Selcni 194 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: was occupied Chokie actually continued to attack with a war 195 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 3: that you cannot say like at this time. It starts 196 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 3: and in this time and it's more like continuous attacks. 197 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 3: So on the one hand, like some areas are always 198 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 3: getting bombed in the last years, like for examples like 199 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 3: with artillery shelling and one like a sharebar next to 200 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 3: Athleene or Ironesa or the tam So like the areas 201 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 3: that are close to the occupied areas were now Turkey 202 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 3: and mercenary forces are stations that constantly attacked more or 203 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 3: less regions, but also with a drone war like the 204 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 3: first I think, very like clear example of what was 205 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 3: the strategy like in the last years was on the 206 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 3: twenty third June two down twenty when Turkey killed three 207 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 3: women of Conguersta, the women's movement like the civil women's 208 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 3: movement in Kobani in the village, which were all like 209 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 3: two of them were like in the leadership of the 210 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 3: civil women's movement and one was just like a member 211 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 3: and they were sitting in the garden and they were 212 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 3: talking and at this time like a turk strownest strike 213 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 3: and they all lost their lives. So like a lot 214 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 3: of these kinds of attacks happened after this, like against 215 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 3: like let's say like civil leaders of society, like politicians, 216 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 3: normal people. Also like on the twenty fifth of December. 217 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 3: Actually also on Christmas in two twenty one five five 218 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 3: child like young people like youth from the Youth movement 219 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 3: were killed in Kobani. Also like just when they were 220 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 3: sitting in the garden, like members of the Youth Center, 221 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 3: like I took a stone stock three of them, like 222 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 3: a young girl and this continued. Or also we can 223 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 3: say like leaders of Fox suble YPJ. Also like on 224 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 3: the twenty second of July last year, there was a 225 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 3: conference happening for celebrating ten years of Women's Resolution in Rojaha, 226 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 3: and just on the same day, Turky targeted the car 227 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 3: of Right PJ members. One of them was Jian Toldan, 228 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 3: who also spoke on the same day on the conference. 229 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 3: Both actually it's quite clear what took. Actually once they 230 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 3: want to like destroy the revolution that's happening in USA, 231 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 3: like the Woman's Revolution mm hm, and in general, like 232 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 3: this change that is happening. They want to create like 233 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 3: the sphere who stay away to way to Theish occupation forces, 234 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 3: and they're using a lot of violence, like also in 235 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 3: the occupied areas, like the people who are, right, I 236 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 3: think that they cannot speak their language, they have to fear. 237 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 3: Sometimes they cannot close the house doors. Sometimes people get 238 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 3: like abducted, like without anyone knowing why or where they go. 239 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 3: Will they go to the prison? Will that be in 240 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 3: a prison or will that be forshot or like a 241 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 3: very kind of oppressive regime now in the occupied areas. 242 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and those are people who, like I've met when 243 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: when they come here, right, people who have lost Like 244 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: I spoke to a guy a Mayre a couple of 245 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: weeks ago. You know, his father had been killed, his 246 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: uncle had been killed, and like he was like what 247 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: should he should? I should I wait to be like 248 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: the last person in my family and then who gets 249 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: killed or like it's it's very the conditions for those 250 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: people in the Turkish occupied parts of northern Kurdistan are very, 251 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: very difficult and oppressive. And I think, like, just to 252 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: build off what you said, like it's important that people 253 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: realize that these killing of especially like people in the 254 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: Women's revolution, but also you know people in in the 255 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: Rajava revolution. More generally, it's not drone strikes are extremely targeted, right, 256 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: Like they can follow a car from an event and 257 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: strike it. Like it's these kind of these things are 258 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: not It's not like they're it's not like artillery or mortars. 259 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: It's not like you're sending it into an area. Like 260 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: they're extremely targeted to an individual or a group of 261 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: individuals rather than you know, random attack. So like this 262 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: is a distinct choice that's being made. Well, let's talk 263 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: about the most recent bombings, because I think there was 264 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: some particularly egregious ones, even by the standard of this campaign, 265 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: which has been pretty egregis from the beginning. But December, 266 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: around the week of Christmas this year, just to give 267 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: people a time sort of period, there was a bombings 268 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: of a if I'm not wrong, a printing press, a 269 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: dialysis facility, is that right? 270 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, well actually there was there was also another 271 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 3: like not hospital, like a becaspital, let's say, like a 272 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 3: medical point. Also in Corvani were doctors who was out borders. 273 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 3: I think it's like kind of a known and Jose 274 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 3: were also working there at the oxygen center also, so 275 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 3: like medical places, there were like normal factories of food production, 276 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 3: like you said the printing house. There were many places 277 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 3: like this, like of daily infrastructure that were targeted like before. 278 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 3: Already in October infrastructure was targeted. And also last year 279 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 3: there was attack like this and every time at least 280 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 3: ten civilians got killed, like in all of these attacks. 281 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 3: So now I think that over a number just of 282 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 3: these three ways of attacks is already like searching one 283 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 3: killed civilians. So like maybe dawns were very targeted, but 284 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 3: it's not like Turki doesn't want to kill a civilians 285 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 3: or tax care not to kill civilians. Like already in 286 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 3: the attacks of the last year, there was an examples 287 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 3: of double tap attacks for example, which I actually be illegal. 288 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 3: So I think it's very important to say, like also 289 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 3: the targeting of medical points of medical infrastructure, that what 290 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 3: Turkey is doing is not according to international law, Like 291 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 3: that's not the case, and like TOOKI is kind of 292 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 3: acting like however, advanced targeting civilians creating like fear, and 293 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 3: also like in a region that is already poor, Johnny, 294 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 3: you have to say, like the possibilities that have been created, 295 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 3: like like for daily needs and so on, for supplies 296 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 3: of electricity of like heating fuels and so on for 297 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 3: your house, they are very affected like this right now, 298 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 3: So like in general, there's like a big shortcoming of 299 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 3: everything right now and whatever, and just because of took 300 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 3: his attacks, so this is actually affecting everyone. And on 301 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 3: the other hand, took it to create like this feel 302 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,360 Speaker 3: like there's just some wave of attack and just targeting everywhere, 303 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 3: so they want to displace actually the relations and also 304 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 3: to comment like the politics also took state, especially against 305 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 3: Scurtish people and also against the Christians was very much 306 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 3: like potentially like genocidal politics. 307 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 4: Like. 308 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 3: It's not not like a limited attack or something like this, 309 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 3: like we don't think so, yeah. 310 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: No, it's not a and like you said, they're very 311 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: very much unafraid of killing civilians in the process. Like 312 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: I spoke to a mother whose fifteen year old son 313 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: was killed in a drone strike. I don't think it's 314 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: very hard to make an argument that fifteen year old 315 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: son was doing anything apart from being a fifteen year 316 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: old kid. You know, it's not like this person is 317 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: a legitimate military target of a kid who played goalkeeper 318 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: on his local football team. And these double type attacks, 319 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: like if people aren't familiar with the double tap attack, 320 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: it's when an attack happened, people go to the site 321 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: of the attack to render aid. Right and ambulance or 322 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: practice bystanders rendering aid or either military personnel rendering aid, 323 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: and then a second attack happened at the same place 324 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: to to then attack the people who are rendering aid. 325 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: So you spoke a little bit about like how they're 326 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 1: trying to attack the whole project and not just individuals. 327 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: I wonder like the the drowne strikes do have like 328 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: a they change the way things have to be done right, 329 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: Like like it's it's things become unsafe, like any way 330 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: you can see the sky right, like having a large gathering, 331 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: or certainly for people who are of more like higher status, 332 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: it's it's dangerous for them to be out and about. Right. 333 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 2: Is that fair to say? 334 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 5: Yeah? 335 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 3: I mean on some levels, for sure the dangerous. But 336 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 3: on the other hand, you cannot always be afraid. Like 337 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 3: that's like really yes, the reality like for example now, 338 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 3: because it's places where targets, for exunder the infrastructure that 339 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 3: you need for your life. People actually started to stand 340 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 3: like next to the electricity center to say like if 341 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 3: we're all here, then they cannot target it. Wow, for 342 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 3: sure its dangerous if you see. 343 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: Like the they can they Yeah, because they've killed a 344 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: lot of civilians. As you say, that's a very brace 345 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: thing to do. Yes, yeah, again, I think I think 346 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: maybe we should explain, actually, so it gets very cold 347 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: in this part of the world in the winter, because 348 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: perhaps people will associate this part of the world with 349 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: like the heat and heart chambers. But like you, you 350 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: have very cold winters, especially in the mountains. 351 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 3: Right, yeah, I mean it's like all more or less flat, 352 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 3: like it's not so cold, but still it gets like 353 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 3: under zero degrees. So like for sure you need they 354 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 3: need like your house to be warm, and so like 355 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 3: just to take care of basic meats. You need your 356 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 3: car to drive somewhere maybe sometimes at least like some 357 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 3: people needed for their work or like this, there's a 358 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 3: lot of basic needs that don't work if all the 359 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 3: infrastructure gets destroyed. 360 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 361 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I believe if I'm right in saying it's 362 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: the one person already passed away because they couldn't get 363 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: dialysis the dialysis center that was bombed, Is that right. 364 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 3: Yes, So as they said that one passed away, afterwards, 365 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 3: they brought like a like emergency wise a dialos machine, 366 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 3: which I think is very good for the sick people. 367 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 3: But I'm not sure because also if you don't have 368 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 3: like a substitute of something happens like only one machine. 369 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 3: I'm not sure like how much it will actually take 370 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 3: care of the needs of the people, because I said 371 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 3: it was like seventy or eighty sick people who were 372 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 3: going to the center, So it's not new. 373 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and like I didn't think, Yeah, I mean, it's 374 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: certainly not as good as having a proper center, right, Like, 375 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: and there's no reason that's there's no world in which 376 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: a dialysis center is a legitimate target or a printing press, right, Like. 377 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: I think that that maybe points out what you were saying, 378 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: like if you're printing books about something, sharing knowledge about something, 379 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: and like perhaps one thing I think you were saying, 380 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: is it right that it printed textbooks. 381 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 3: I think it was like also printing textbook, Okay, like 382 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 3: it was printing everything, so it's also printing textbooks. Yes, 383 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 3: like also was printing textbook. 384 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we should point out that, like, you know, 385 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: I speak to Kurdish people almost every day when I'm 386 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: at the border, and they many of them don't read 387 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: and write in Kurdish because in Turkey that's not taught 388 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: in schools, right, they don't have a chance to learn 389 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: and and so like having those textbooks, having that knowledge, 390 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: Like lots of my lots of my friends were saying that, 391 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: like the children, because because folks who went to school 392 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: before the revolution went to school in Arabic. So like 393 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: the children are the ones who have like the formal 394 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: education in Kurdish, you know, and then they're building a 395 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: generation that like speaks Kurdish and reads and writes Kurdish 396 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: is their first language. And so like an attempt to 397 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: destroy that isn't just destroying the factory, right it is 398 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: that fair to say that it's also destroying like that 399 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: goal of the revolution, and more broadly, like that attempt 400 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: to like to have that education in Kurdish and let 401 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: children speak their own language in school. 402 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 3: Yes, I mean this is also part of like usmination politics, 403 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 3: to deny people of their own language, which actually likes 404 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 3: a Syrian regime also that like they only thought in Arabic. 405 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 3: And now for example, the system of the self administuation 406 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 3: lows everyone to learn and different languageses agno the Arabic, 407 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 3: there's Kurdish and even in the very last time are 408 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 3: hearts that there will also be opened our Syrian again, 409 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 3: which is actually really important because language that is like 410 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 3: very like most assuming people right now a speaker and 411 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 3: write Arabic, soods could be really important. 412 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 1: Also, yeah, yeah, and it's it's I think it's really 413 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: important to point out for people who aren't aware. And 414 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: often in the US media, like Rochio is reported as 415 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: like Kurdi is like a Curdish area, but it may 416 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: have a majority of Curds in some cities, but like, yeah, 417 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: there are Assyrian people, there are Arab people that are 418 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: Armenian people, and like they have that same autonomy right 419 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: to educate in their own language and too to like 420 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: organizing their own communities. 421 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 3: Yes, that's what the idea is all about. And I 422 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 3: think actually like resources in the last time, that was 423 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 3: kind of trying to create this image of like Curds 424 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 3: against Arabs, like from the outside in the international media, 425 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 3: which is absolutely not true. Like the SDS itself is 426 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 3: like majorly Arabic force, It's not majorly just like if 427 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 3: you see numbers I think at least, so it's like 428 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 3: very equal, like everyone who plays a role in US 429 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 3: and who wants to participate can participate, and everyone has 430 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 3: a like autonomy also to organize inside of their own 431 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 3: society or may it be religion or which like also 432 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 3: Yazdi people like Kurdish people who are Yazidi religion, they 433 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 3: also have their own organization here. Yeah, that's very important and. 434 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: Their own movement in their own area lar the year 435 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: in that part of Iraq. Like that's like I guess 436 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: an allied movement, would that be fair to say? 437 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it very much like follows the same 438 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 3: idea and the same concept as. 439 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 2: Yes and yeah. 440 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: I've also spoken to a ZD people who have come 441 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: to the United States recently, and they under the under 442 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: it they had an apsolutely like inhumane and terrible conditions 443 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: and if it wasn't for the gay then they like 444 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be They're they're the you know, the they 445 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: the beginning of the their liberation I guess came from 446 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: the epigay and something we'll maybe talk about another time. 447 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: It's a long story. 448 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 2: I wonder. 449 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, obviously this isn't something that has been in 450 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: the news as much because people have been so focused 451 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: on Palestine. I wonder if it's worth discussing, Like the 452 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: Turkish States completely like like two faced approach, right, Like 453 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: on one hand, they're saying. 454 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 5: We have to. 455 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: Like yeah, it's unacceptable for the bombing of civilians in 456 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: Palestine and like this is completely wrong. And then on 457 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: the other hand that they're doing the same thing right 458 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: like just on on their other border. 459 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, well I'm saying we thought anyway, So like Turky 460 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 3: is not doing anything good for the Palestinian people. Tuki 461 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 3: is leading Hamas to such an attack like its supporting 462 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 3: hammers and the like very violent attacks that I made, 463 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 3: which then was like the preset for the war of 464 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 3: Israel and international forces against the Palestinian people. So actually, 465 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 3: who is like suffering from all of this is like 466 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,719 Speaker 3: the normal people, like, which is too for Israel and Palestine. 467 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 3: So actually we have to say, like what Tuki is 468 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 3: doing is against the people, like it's also against the 469 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 3: Palestinian people. And here like they have criticized to clearly 470 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 3: for example, Israel is saying like saying, Isia is making 471 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 3: occupation politics and so on. Still Turki also has ties 472 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 3: with Israel. We also have to say, but like they 473 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 3: are themselves occupying parts of Wovoir in the shadow of 474 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 3: these attacks that like all the attention of the world 475 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 3: was going uh into this region. They attacked like also 476 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 3: calculating that maybe people will not so much look to 477 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 3: right now, like at the same time, there's like another 478 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 3: huge war going on in the Middle East, and they 479 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 3: are making like very clearly like politics of occupation in 480 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 3: Aftene and Silkanya and also democratic demographic change. So they 481 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 3: are like displacing people and placing other people. 482 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well displacing whom and and placing whom, because 483 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: I think that's important when we talk about like that 484 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: that population and demographic change, like because there's it's not 485 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: They're not just displacing people randomly and replacing them randomly, right. 486 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, So actually the people that are targeted most are 487 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 3: like the Kurdish people in the areas or other people 488 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 3: that are like not aligned to the took state. And 489 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 3: then who they place like mostly were like you see, 490 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 3: they are all these mercenary forces that are actually aligned 491 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 3: to Turkey or like outside forces already. Like they're like 492 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,719 Speaker 3: they are not Isis, but they are a little bit 493 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 3: similar to it. They are like mercenary groups that are 494 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:34,479 Speaker 3: like more or less like what road they go, it's 495 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 3: they're clarified from outside forces, so they are aligned to 496 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 3: Turkey and from these people for example, they're families who 497 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 3: are placed in the region on the one hand. On 498 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,959 Speaker 3: the other hand, they were even examples were Turkey started 499 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 3: to place some Palestinian people also in this region or 500 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 3: like the different like they just who they think they 501 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 3: can align to shortly as a state and doing under 502 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 3: their control. They were placing in these areas that say 503 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 3: it like this, like to be able to actually what 504 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 3: is a part of part of Syria, to occupy it 505 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 3: long term, like to make this class it's not like 506 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 3: a short term plan, like they want to stay in 507 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 3: this area. It's not prevented if it's not liberated. 508 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: Again, yeah, yeah, and I think like again, like people 509 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: I think have become more aware in recent months. People 510 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: are becoming educated on the situation in Palestine settlements. And 511 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: it's not the fault of the people of Palestine that 512 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: they're being like forced to be driven off their ancestral homelands. 513 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: But like what it does mean is that like they 514 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: could be mobilized by someone like Turkey right to just 515 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: do an occupation to to do it, I guess demographic 516 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: transfer somewhere else, and like that's not it, that's not 517 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: like a desirable outcome. So we spoke a little bit 518 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 1: about like this, like ongoing hostility. He right, and it 519 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: can seem for people out look, I think people only 520 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: hear about in negative and not negative terms is the 521 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: wrong thing. But like they only it only ever enters 522 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: the American press these days when something happens, right, either 523 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 1: an isis attack something one of the cat like a 524 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: hall or a rog Right, But like, also things are 525 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: continuing to progress, right, It's not just a place that 526 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: it's embattled and fighting to survive, like I know recently 527 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: a new social contract was passed, for instance, So maybe 528 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: you could explain a little bit about the progress that's 529 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: still being made despite this this ongoing like air war, 530 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: during war and land war. 531 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, actually I think here whever we always followed 532 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 3: this philosophy that we are not like sitting here and 533 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 3: saying our war will come towards us or like it 534 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 3: will not be like we are very much hopeful and 535 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 3: we're always working to develop. Like even if these things 536 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 3: are happening, these attacks are happening, the sovolution very very 537 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 3: much developed, and the society changed a lot already, A 538 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 3: lot of institutions have been built up that before we're 539 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 3: not existing and so on. And as an outcome also 540 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 3: of this, the new social contract was formed, which actually 541 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 3: is like a very democratic process. Like let's say if 542 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 3: the state force for example, has the constitution, the state 543 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:48,240 Speaker 3: less the self administration has a social contract which actually 544 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 3: is made by the people because until it was made, 545 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 3: there was the years of discussion, like there were so 546 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 3: many meetings, like all of the political representatives from the 547 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 3: smallest to the biggest level, they were all part of 548 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 3: the discussion, and also the people themselves they could take 549 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 3: part in the discussion. So now this is for example, 550 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,800 Speaker 3: ensuring a lot of important decisions. And now like the 551 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 3: struggle that is before us, like that we are facing 552 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:23,280 Speaker 3: now is to implement the social contract, which is very important. 553 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,399 Speaker 3: It's also guaranteeing a lot of purgus for women, it's 554 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 3: guaranteeing a lot of focus for society. So I think 555 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 3: still now like it's a task to like see how 556 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 3: how it can be implemented in all areas because it's 557 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,919 Speaker 3: always like a very lively process, like it always needs 558 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 3: the daily struggle, the daily work creating like everything from 559 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 3: new So there's a lot going on. Actually here we 560 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:57,280 Speaker 3: can say. 561 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely and like it definitely, like it doesn't I 562 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: think it's easy, Like again, if we only report on 563 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,399 Speaker 1: the thing when bad things are happening, like to think 564 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: that it's only bad. 565 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 2: But there's a lot of like people are still. 566 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: Hopeful, I think, and hopeful for creating and spreading like 567 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: this better future for themselves and the children and for 568 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: the region, which I think is is really admirable. One 569 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: thing that I thought was really admirable is people will 570 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: probably have seen it, but like if they don't like 571 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: follow social media so much. The exchange of statements of 572 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: solidarity between the k and DF, the Cronian National Defense 573 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: Force Battalion five specifically in Myanmar, and the YPG and 574 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: YPG in Rog and they've gone back and forth, right, 575 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: But can you explain a little bit about Obviously, I 576 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: know that the situation in Meanma is very complicated. I 577 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: know I've spent years of my life learning about it. 578 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 1: But can you explain like the importance of that solidarity 579 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: and like also perhaps like it's not it was a 580 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: risk great for everyone to gather like this in in 581 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: the middle of the drone war to make the statement, 582 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: but can you explain like why that solidarity with something 583 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: they felt was so important. 584 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think in general it's very important to say, 585 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,800 Speaker 3: like the revolutioneb it's not only like avolution for the 586 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 3: people of itself, but has like a prospected more general 587 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 3: like to strengthen the friendship of democratic movements anywhere in 588 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,720 Speaker 3: the world. So for sure, there's a lot of colors 589 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,839 Speaker 3: of movements, a lot of different situations in the world, 590 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 3: and some might also like let's say, see the solidarity 591 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 3: very strong because actually they are also like Miama, like 592 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 3: also facing for example, state system which is very much 593 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,240 Speaker 3: influenced by fascism, like for something, we are facing Turkey 594 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,240 Speaker 3: or like in general, this kind of oppression and trying 595 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 3: to liberate from it. So actually we're always trying to 596 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 3: have like this exchange in general in the world and 597 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 3: to have like also to build like how let's say, 598 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 3: like quality, quality relationships, quality friendships with all kinds of 599 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 3: democratic movements. For sure, everyone is acting on a different 600 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 3: level and so on, but this is like a big 601 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 3: something really really important for us in general. And I mean, 602 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 3: like in the revolution, there were also always people from 603 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 3: the outside, for example, participating in it, so there was 604 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 3: always kind of the spirit that this is like the 605 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 3: revolution for the world. Like the Kurdish movement in general 606 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 3: has like this character like an internationalist character, so it's 607 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 3: not something like let's say like far from from us, 608 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 3: Like that's already something like very close to us and 609 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 3: say like we stand a solidarity also with other liberation movement. 610 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was very it was. I know 611 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: it's very much appreciated in Myanmar because lots lots of 612 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: people from there have reached out to tell me how 613 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 1: how much they appreciated it. And like I think some 614 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 1: of them have been in the revolution for seventy years 615 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: and their world has not paid attention to them, So 616 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: they really appreciated that. And that's that's solidarity. And like 617 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: I know that the solidarity runs a lot deeper than statements, 618 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,280 Speaker 1: but like we will cover that they extended that solidarity 619 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: in another episode because again I think it it merits. 620 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 1: It's a in recording. I wonder a better van what 621 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: Obviously people will be listening, right, and I think a 622 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 1: lot of people will be very supportive of the revolution 623 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: in raja Va and they want to help it and 624 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: see it succeed and certainly not to see No one 625 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: wants to see civilians dying in drones tacks, right, No 626 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,320 Speaker 1: one want to see anyone drying in drowned jacks. But 627 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,800 Speaker 1: how can they if they are in the US or 628 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: in Europe or elsewhere in the world but not in Rogio, 629 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: how can they help? How can they support the revolution 630 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 1: through its like difficult through these difficult moments, right when 631 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: people don't have electricity to heat their homes in the 632 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:24,839 Speaker 1: winter and things. 633 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's a lot of possibilities, like sights 634 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 3: coming here, which also is the point, but I mean 635 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,959 Speaker 3: in general, like you have all of the h the possibilities, 636 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 3: like from educating yourself what is the revolution actually about? 637 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 3: Understanding it, from spreading its ideas, which is maybe the 638 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,320 Speaker 3: most important task. May it be like spreading knowledge about 639 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 3: the spreading knowledge also about the attacks that are happening, 640 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 3: clarifying what's happening and why it's happening. To read the 641 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 3: book Political Background orso of international politics. That's very important 642 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 3: for understands. And also you can always like share. For example, 643 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 3: let's say you have social media. Let's say you're part 644 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 3: of a political movement or something. You can discuss about it. 645 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 3: You can inform yourself about it, you can make a 646 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 3: presentation about it in your university. Like there are so 647 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 3: many things that you can do like you can read 648 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 3: the book about it and make a book presentation, like 649 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 3: there's a million things a person can do. Or as 650 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 3: you're doing, you can connect to the Kurdish refugees or 651 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 3: to the society Kurdish people in the diaspora in general, 652 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 3: like outside of Curtis some wherever you might be. Yeah, 653 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:49,879 Speaker 3: that's possibility. Also, like you can organize solidarity also practical solidarity. 654 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,959 Speaker 3: Also like let's say, like intellection works like write at texts, share, 655 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 3: discuss about it. Like maybe it's difficult in the beginning 656 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 3: to understand something or to gain information, but right now 657 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 3: there's actually a lot of information also available in English language, 658 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 3: I think. 659 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you could read for about a year and non 660 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: stuff I think and still not not have read all 661 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 1: of it. But are there books You've recommended A couple 662 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 1: of books to me which I think have been really 663 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,440 Speaker 1: good and I've shared with my friends in Memma and 664 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: I know that they've enjoyed. Are there any books that 665 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:27,720 Speaker 1: you'd recommend to listeners? 666 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 3: I mean and Jina, Like this revolution is based on 667 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 3: the sorts of a so I think a good idea 668 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,720 Speaker 3: if you actually want to understand, like the ideological basis 669 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 3: of it, about women's liberations, about how democratic society can 670 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,400 Speaker 3: be organized. So actually there's like this book called of 671 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 3: him Sociology of Freedom. I think it's very important and 672 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 3: so a little bit like understandable. I think for someone 673 00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 3: who comes maybe from academic or from a lesters or 674 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,320 Speaker 3: from a democratic background, I think they will read it, 675 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 3: they will be able to understand it. But there are 676 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,960 Speaker 3: also many other books that are translated to English or 677 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 3: like texts that are available, or in general there are 678 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 3: books about the volution from people, for example, coming from 679 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 3: the outside. I have to think right now in English, 680 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I know there are some also some in 681 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 3: the different languages about the women's revolution, so I have 682 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,439 Speaker 3: to think that available. I think that's also like there's 683 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 3: one called like the politics of Freedom or something. And 684 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 3: there are some books that were published because they were 685 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 3: like the diplomatic conferences in most of them I think 686 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:50,320 Speaker 3: happening in Europe, which as they were like some like 687 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:57,320 Speaker 3: collections of philosophical discussion, uh, like the published, So I 688 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 3: think that's also very available. Well, I'm sorry, I have 689 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,360 Speaker 3: tight Yeah, I know. 690 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 1: There's a good book called Revolution in Rogevat, which was 691 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,399 Speaker 1: translated from German that like I think it lays out 692 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:16,360 Speaker 1: like how things happen. It's a little bit a little 693 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: bit dated now. I think it was published in like 694 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, so you know, things have changed over a 695 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,759 Speaker 1: few years. But I think that's a decent book for 696 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 1: people who are interested as well that I know a 697 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: lot of people have recommended. Yeah, and then I wonder, like, 698 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,400 Speaker 1: because this isn't being like, I know, you made the 699 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,960 Speaker 1: point earlier about that the world was looking at Palestine 700 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 1: when the Tax of Palestine happened. I was in Cambischlow 701 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: in rochebl and like, it's impossible for me to sell stories. 702 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,239 Speaker 1: It's impossible for me to sell anything to like big 703 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: news outlets so that they simply like, don't think American 704 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 1: people can care about two parts of the world at once. 705 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,280 Speaker 1: I guess I wonder where people can follow and get updates, 706 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: Like it's a good social media or news outlets that 707 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: you would suggest for people who do want to keep 708 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: in touch with what's happening. 709 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we have like a Twitter Facebook page 710 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 3: as a Whitejay Information on Documentation Office like YPJ Information. 711 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:22,920 Speaker 3: But also there's like other places like the Information Center, 712 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:29,080 Speaker 3: which is very much like like independently accriminating like knowledge 713 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 3: and sharing in a way that I think is understandable 714 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 3: for everyone. Like there's also from the SDI forces the 715 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 3: Press Center, which just has like also the English homepage 716 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,480 Speaker 3: is sharing like sometimes statements and comcrete information. There's an 717 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:48,759 Speaker 3: Internationalist Commune of Sharing an English language, a lot of 718 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,880 Speaker 3: information on Twitter and on their homepage. So there's actually 719 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 3: a lot of sources if you go look for it, 720 00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:58,279 Speaker 3: that are very good. I think. 721 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 1: Also yes, and like on the ground people who can 722 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,160 Speaker 1: show you what's happening, And yeah, I think I think 723 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 1: that's wonderful. But anything else you'd like us to get 724 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,439 Speaker 1: to before we finish up, anything else you want people 725 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 1: to know. 726 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 3: No, I think it's very important to say again that 727 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,359 Speaker 3: it's like very very valuable for the revolution for people 728 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 3: to take part in actions, to make their voice, hard, 729 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,920 Speaker 3: to organize, to make the solution known, to get it 730 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,920 Speaker 3: to know for themselves, and that it does actually make 731 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,399 Speaker 3: a very very huge difference like the struggle that people 732 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,000 Speaker 3: everyone in the world are making for the solution and 733 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,759 Speaker 3: that it needs it. That like it's very like critical 734 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,400 Speaker 3: for the use of a revolution that everyone's world it 735 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:48,799 Speaker 3: gets known and gets like solidarity that received this are 736 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:53,239 Speaker 3: very meaningful. I think that's very important to understand. Besides this, 737 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,719 Speaker 3: I don't know. I hope yes, that's I think. 738 00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 739 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,360 Speaker 1: I think it's really good to realize that it's not 740 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,160 Speaker 1: it's not a it's you know, it's a very worthwhile 741 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,440 Speaker 1: thing to do just to increase people's awareness and solidarity. 742 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: And thank you so much for your time. I know Internet, 743 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,399 Speaker 1: it's not the easiest thing to come by the way 744 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,480 Speaker 1: you are. Say thank you so much. V I'm for 745 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,160 Speaker 1: taking the time to talk to us today. 746 00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 3: Well, thank you also for talking well to the topic. 747 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,480 Speaker 3: I was very happy to join us. 748 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: Great, thanks so much. 749 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,680 Speaker 2: Welcome back to it could happen here everybody. I am 750 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,879 Speaker 2: Robert Evans, and I want to start today by kind 751 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,680 Speaker 2: of proposing a theoretical Right, you wake up in the 752 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,719 Speaker 2: morning and something is awry, you know, maybe maybe you 753 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,000 Speaker 2: hear shots, maybe there's some sort of natural disaster, you know, 754 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:56,719 Speaker 2: maybe it's that that weird Havana syndron death sound from 755 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,759 Speaker 2: the Obama movie that just came out on what was 756 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 2: it Netflix? But something's fucked up, and you know, most people, 757 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,640 Speaker 2: I think especially most people who listen to this podcast 758 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,120 Speaker 2: you've probably had conversations with your friends and loved ones 759 00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,839 Speaker 2: about what do we do when the quote unquote apocalypse 760 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,719 Speaker 2: or shit hits the fan. You know, you've got your 761 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,800 Speaker 2: friends who maybe you know they have a lot of 762 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,400 Speaker 2: stored food, or they have some other skill that you 763 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,200 Speaker 2: think would be useful. And you've got some stuff that's 764 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:20,799 Speaker 2: that that that you know you know. 765 00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:21,200 Speaker 5: How to do. 766 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,719 Speaker 2: You've got your people right that you would want to 767 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,839 Speaker 2: be with and around if something's really going wrong out there, 768 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,520 Speaker 2: because you know how to take care of each other. 769 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,279 Speaker 2: But how do you get in contact right? Assuming you 770 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,719 Speaker 2: don't all live together, assuming you're not all on some 771 00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,080 Speaker 2: sort of commune type situation, as most people aren't. You're 772 00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,839 Speaker 2: probably scattered throughout the city. Maybe you've got some friends out, 773 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:42,759 Speaker 2: you know, in the suburbs. Maybe you've got some friends 774 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,480 Speaker 2: who live out in rural land. Maybe you've just got 775 00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,920 Speaker 2: a friend who lives halfway across town. And you know 776 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,560 Speaker 2: that's no problem when you got a phone and you've 777 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 2: got you know, Google Maps working. But can you get 778 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,759 Speaker 2: there on your own? Can you get there or get 779 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,360 Speaker 2: into contact with them if the streets are all clogged 780 00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,920 Speaker 2: up with cars or whatever? Like, how are you going 781 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,440 Speaker 2: to reach them? How are you going to you know, 782 00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,040 Speaker 2: get in touch in order to figure out what's going on? 783 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,319 Speaker 2: And how are you going to stay in touch while 784 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,880 Speaker 2: you handle whatever you need to handle for whatever is 785 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,480 Speaker 2: going wrong. Well, that's what we're going to talk about today, 786 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:16,560 Speaker 2: because if the cell networks are down, if they're being blocked, 787 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:22,160 Speaker 2: if you know, the Obama situation happens, there are things 788 00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:26,359 Speaker 2: you can do to allow you and your friends, comrades, 789 00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,520 Speaker 2: affinity group, whatever you want to call them, to stay 790 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,400 Speaker 2: in touch. And this a lot of this revolves around 791 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,560 Speaker 2: a kind of technical usage called a mesh network. And 792 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,880 Speaker 2: I don't know much about that because I am a 793 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,400 Speaker 2: big dummy. But a person who is not a dummy 794 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,759 Speaker 2: is our guest today. They go by Hydroponic Trash on 795 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 2: Twitter and they are going to talk to us today 796 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,400 Speaker 2: about how to set up independent communications networks that do 797 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,320 Speaker 2: not rely on the standard grid. Hello and welcome to 798 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,600 Speaker 2: the show. Hey, what's up? 799 00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:56,320 Speaker 6: Thanks for having me on? 800 00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for coming on. You posted a thread 801 00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:05,000 Speaker 2: on Twitter about using you know, it's called like LOWRA 802 00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 2: low frequency radio? 803 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,879 Speaker 4: Is that what it stands for? Yeah? 804 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,360 Speaker 6: LORA stands technically for long range but Yeah, it's a 805 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:19,360 Speaker 6: long range frequency radio that broadcasts a pretty uh specific 806 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,759 Speaker 6: wavelength that can travel really far throughout the air. So 807 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 6: it's perfect for communications long distance. 808 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 2: And it's if you've got devices set up on this 809 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,600 Speaker 2: they each basically act as nodes, right, So the more 810 00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,279 Speaker 2: you have the kind of wider signal distribution you get 811 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,279 Speaker 2: if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, Like if you've 812 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,120 Speaker 2: got someone three miles away and then another person five 813 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,120 Speaker 2: miles to the west of them, then you kind of 814 00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:47,840 Speaker 2: are able to cover that whole distance. 815 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,319 Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly. So think of it like a relay system, right. 816 00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:52,560 Speaker 5: Yeah. 817 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,520 Speaker 6: One person has a message, they send it off to 818 00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,720 Speaker 6: another person. That person passes it on to the next node, 819 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,000 Speaker 6: and so mesh networks are really resilient when it comes 820 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,719 Speaker 6: to emergencies, when it comes to protests, when it comes 821 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:10,680 Speaker 6: to occupation and conflict zones, because if one node goes down, 822 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:12,960 Speaker 6: as long as there's other ones that can pick up 823 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,480 Speaker 6: that message and keep repeating it and broadcasting it out. 824 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,840 Speaker 6: So it's a really interesting piece of technology that is 825 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:25,319 Speaker 6: similar to like traditional radios, but also different because all 826 00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,560 Speaker 6: the communications can be encrypted end to end. 827 00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,480 Speaker 2: Which is a huge delay of security because you can 828 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,799 Speaker 2: the thing most people's default. If you're thinking like, well, 829 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:36,800 Speaker 2: how do you get some like walkie talkies? 830 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:37,000 Speaker 6: Right? 831 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:38,800 Speaker 2: You know, you get some and those can you know, 832 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,320 Speaker 2: those have their place and stuff, but they are also 833 00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,920 Speaker 2: not always the most secure options. So being able to 834 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:48,040 Speaker 2: encrypthit is a huge deal, especially when you're talking about 835 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,000 Speaker 2: like outside of a shit hits the fan kind of deal, 836 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,880 Speaker 2: which is less likely than you know, some sort of 837 00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,440 Speaker 2: civil unrest protest use case. You know, being able to 838 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,880 Speaker 2: actually encrypt is huge. Yeah, so I'm a dummy. I 839 00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:06,719 Speaker 2: don't understand much about setting up my own technology independently, 840 00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,800 Speaker 2: but I find this interesting. I see the use case. 841 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,440 Speaker 2: I decide I want to you know, set this up 842 00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:17,520 Speaker 2: and start, you know, building an emergency mesh network with 843 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,320 Speaker 2: a half dozen of my friends. Where do I start? 844 00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,040 Speaker 6: So the first thing is you'll need some hardware that 845 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:29,359 Speaker 6: supports LORA. There are a ton of different things out there, 846 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:33,120 Speaker 6: ranging from maybe twenty twenty five bucks going all the 847 00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,280 Speaker 6: way up to thousands of dollars. So there's a big range, 848 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:41,920 Speaker 6: and that range really depends on the enclosure, what's included 849 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,680 Speaker 6: in it, the broadcast strength, all that good stuff. So obviously, 850 00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,120 Speaker 6: the cheaper you go, the weaker the broadcast strength is 851 00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,920 Speaker 6: there might be development boards that are just literally like 852 00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:57,120 Speaker 6: the PCB, like actual hardware with no case around it. Yeah, yeah, 853 00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,319 Speaker 6: and there's there's some that you can just pick up 854 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,920 Speaker 6: and immediately use, and so it kind of depends. But 855 00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,880 Speaker 6: that's the first step is finding hardware that can handle 856 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,480 Speaker 6: Laura and then you know, obviously getting it and then 857 00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,799 Speaker 6: flashing it with the correct software. And that sounds really complicated, 858 00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:20,040 Speaker 6: but for our purposes of sending text messages without any 859 00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:24,600 Speaker 6: kind of cellular, LTE or Wi Fi connection, you can 860 00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,560 Speaker 6: use super cheap devices and flashing them is you click 861 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:29,879 Speaker 6: a couple of buttons and you're done. 862 00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,560 Speaker 2: So, first off, do you have any kind of specific 863 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,759 Speaker 2: you know, I know you're working on a text piece 864 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:38,600 Speaker 2: that you can put up to explain all this, and 865 00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,799 Speaker 2: I will certainly share that as soon as it gets up, 866 00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,279 Speaker 2: But do you have any specific like if somebody's saying, hey, 867 00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,080 Speaker 2: I've got you know, a budget of fifty bucks, you know, 868 00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,240 Speaker 2: or so, is there a complete device you would recommend 869 00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,560 Speaker 2: if they're or somewhere in that median range, like kind 870 00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:55,840 Speaker 2: of on the lower end, a thing that someone doesn't 871 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,080 Speaker 2: know how to take, you know, a raw board and 872 00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,880 Speaker 2: craft that into a usable device you would recommend they 873 00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,040 Speaker 2: purchase is to start us off here. 874 00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,200 Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely. So I kind of have two different options. 875 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:11,040 Speaker 6: One is a standalone option that can kind of work 876 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:15,319 Speaker 6: by itself, completely independent of anything else, and another one 877 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,440 Speaker 6: uses your phone, So you'll flash it to the board 878 00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:20,880 Speaker 6: and then connective or bluetooth to your phone just like 879 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:22,280 Speaker 6: a pair of headphone. 880 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:23,680 Speaker 2: Lost so easy. 881 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,120 Speaker 6: Yeah, and so you kind of have options if you 882 00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,279 Speaker 6: want a standalone version. There's a company called lily Go 883 00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,799 Speaker 6: that makes a thing called a te Deck and it's 884 00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,040 Speaker 6: pretty small. It looks like a BlackBerry Clone. 885 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:37,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 886 00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:40,239 Speaker 6: It has a little mouse thing. 887 00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:42,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like a BlackBerry kind of crossed with 888 00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:46,719 Speaker 2: a game camera. Yeah yeah yeah yeah, because it's like 889 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,680 Speaker 2: thicker in the back, it's got that big antenna yeah 890 00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:50,200 Speaker 2: yeah yeah yeah. 891 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,440 Speaker 6: And so the Lilygo t deck is what this is called. 892 00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:59,279 Speaker 6: It's a BlackBerry Clone basically has lowra built in, it 893 00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,239 Speaker 6: has bluetooth, and so all you have to do is 894 00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:07,040 Speaker 6: get powered to this thing, flash it with meshitastic, and 895 00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:09,839 Speaker 6: there you go. Now you have a Now you can 896 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,799 Speaker 6: type out messages, you can send direct messages, you can 897 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,600 Speaker 6: send encrypted messages, all with one device. That's thirty five dollars. 898 00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,600 Speaker 2: Oh man, that's great, And this is something you can 899 00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:25,319 Speaker 2: get like Ali Express was your recommendation, right, Yeah, Ali Express. 900 00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,359 Speaker 6: Probably be the best if you're trying to order a lot. 901 00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,359 Speaker 6: If you want one right now, you can order them 902 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,880 Speaker 6: on places like Amazon, but it's going to cost you 903 00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,440 Speaker 6: and also fuck Amazon. 904 00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:40,280 Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean you are slightly doomed to support 905 00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:45,200 Speaker 2: one horrible billionaire or another like Ali expresses. But no, 906 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:46,719 Speaker 2: I get it. 907 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, And I mean one of the upsides to like 908 00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:54,360 Speaker 6: an all in one thing like this is like I 909 00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,640 Speaker 6: three D printed this case, but you don't have to 910 00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,640 Speaker 6: print a case. You can literally just set this into 911 00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,040 Speaker 6: a box or something and protect it. So there's a 912 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,799 Speaker 6: lot of options on the cases that you want to use. 913 00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,040 Speaker 6: You could buy pre made cases, or you could just 914 00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,240 Speaker 6: I don't know, just put something to protect the board 915 00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,360 Speaker 6: back here and then screw on an antenna. 916 00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:14,799 Speaker 1: You're good. 917 00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:16,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've seen some shit people do with 918 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:30,680 Speaker 2: duct tape. You can figure it out. So my question is, 919 00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:32,600 Speaker 2: or my other question is, you were talking about a 920 00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:36,960 Speaker 2: way that you can you can basically do the calming 921 00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,480 Speaker 2: like communications through yourself on right, you can hook that 922 00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,640 Speaker 2: into the next mesh network. Is that something you're able 923 00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:44,800 Speaker 2: to kind of go over at least in brief or 924 00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:46,880 Speaker 2: provide people with, you know, here's where they can go 925 00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:48,080 Speaker 2: to read about how to do that. 926 00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:49,439 Speaker 5: Yeah. 927 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,960 Speaker 6: So the same company, lily Ego makes a smaller little device. 928 00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:57,520 Speaker 6: It's really small, maybe about an inch yeah. Yeah, and 929 00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,959 Speaker 6: it has a screen on it so when you power 930 00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:01,840 Speaker 6: at all and you can actually see the messages come 931 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,160 Speaker 6: through on the screen on the board itself. 932 00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:04,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 933 00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,840 Speaker 6: And it connects through Bluetooth to your phone and you 934 00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:11,520 Speaker 6: use the mesh Tastic app to basically text like you 935 00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,920 Speaker 6: normally would on a phone. Yeah, it looks just like 936 00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:19,200 Speaker 6: signal pretty much if you're used to that that UI 937 00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:22,160 Speaker 6: but uh yeah, it's super small. Yeah, it's perfect. 938 00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,000 Speaker 2: And so you're just also using that mesh Tastic app 939 00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,920 Speaker 2: to flash the software on the devices once you get them. 940 00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:29,000 Speaker 2: Am I am I understanding that? 941 00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:29,200 Speaker 5: Right? 942 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,280 Speaker 2: Yeah? I'm just asking I'm reasking everything because I want 943 00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,520 Speaker 2: to try to make this accessible for both me when 944 00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,080 Speaker 2: I do it and for our listeners. 945 00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:42,919 Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure. So mesh Tastic is the software that's 946 00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,360 Speaker 6: running on these devices. And what mesh Tastic does is 947 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:50,520 Speaker 6: a device that's also running Meshtastic can communicate with each 948 00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:55,560 Speaker 6: other over LOWRA long distance. And so you need the 949 00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:59,320 Speaker 6: hardware that supports the LORAW and a client which is 950 00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,080 Speaker 6: Mestastic that will allow you to send tax messages and 951 00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:04,680 Speaker 6: stuff like that, and do the encryption handle all that stuff. 952 00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:09,720 Speaker 6: To actually flash these, it's super simple. Mesh Tastic has 953 00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:13,160 Speaker 6: a link that you can go to. You plug in 954 00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,480 Speaker 6: your device, depending on the version, you hold down a button, 955 00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:22,240 Speaker 6: you press flash, wait like ten seconds and boom, now 956 00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:26,080 Speaker 6: you have a working Meshtastic node, probably in underneath ten 957 00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:27,920 Speaker 6: minutes after you get this out of the box, you 958 00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,880 Speaker 6: could be up and running in about ten to fifteen minutes. 959 00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,520 Speaker 2: That's great and so all right. If I if I've 960 00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,560 Speaker 2: got like say, I'm the guy in my group of 961 00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,080 Speaker 2: friends who has more disposable cash, and I want to 962 00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,880 Speaker 2: get this going. So I pick up five of those 963 00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,560 Speaker 2: lily like boxes three D printed case for them or 964 00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,640 Speaker 2: just wrap them in something, you know, and I keep one, 965 00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,120 Speaker 2: I hand them out to my friends. I get the 966 00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:56,640 Speaker 2: software on all of them. How how do I get 967 00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:58,520 Speaker 2: them all kind of in comms together? 968 00:59:58,680 --> 00:59:59,000 Speaker 5: Right? Like? 969 00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,320 Speaker 2: Or if you know, my friends buy them independently and 970 01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,640 Speaker 2: we each flash them and get them up and running. 971 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:05,800 Speaker 2: How do we all kind of connect? Like? What is 972 01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:06,480 Speaker 2: that process? 973 01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:06,680 Speaker 5: Like? 974 01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:10,480 Speaker 6: Yeah? So the good thing with mesh Tastic is it 975 01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:15,480 Speaker 6: automatically handles adding new nodes to the network, and so 976 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,160 Speaker 6: as soon as a new device that runs mess Tastic 977 01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:24,160 Speaker 6: comes online, it'll broadcast and tell the entire mesh Tastic 978 01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:27,560 Speaker 6: network nearby, Hey, a new device got added. You can 979 01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,800 Speaker 6: send messages to me. So mesh Tastic has two different 980 01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,960 Speaker 6: things that it can do. It can do broadcasts, where 981 01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:37,240 Speaker 6: you're sending out a message to pretty much everyone who 982 01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:42,320 Speaker 6: has a device that's reachable, and that's good for say, 983 01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,680 Speaker 6: for instance, you know your friend comes online, you can't 984 01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:47,880 Speaker 6: talk to them directly. You could send them broadcast out 985 01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:52,680 Speaker 6: and say hey Joe, what device are you and they 986 01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,320 Speaker 6: can reply and broadcast everybody Okay, I'm on this device. 987 01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:00,560 Speaker 6: You can also do direct messages, so once you know 988 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:04,120 Speaker 6: that person's device name, you can actually send messages directly 989 01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,680 Speaker 6: to them. Now, keep in mind it's not encrypted because 990 01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:11,480 Speaker 6: technically it's broadcasting throughout each node. It's just like filtering 991 01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:16,640 Speaker 6: out the messages for whoever it was addressed for but yeah, 992 01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:18,960 Speaker 6: at that point then you can start dming people. And 993 01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,200 Speaker 6: if you want to get started with encryption, it's also 994 01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,800 Speaker 6: really easy. You can use the mesh Tastic client, so 995 01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,160 Speaker 6: you can install it on your computer, plug it into 996 01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:32,640 Speaker 6: your computer, and just set an encryption key, a passcode, 997 01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:37,080 Speaker 6: whatever you want to do to secure your communications, and 998 01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:41,840 Speaker 6: then once that person has that passcode, key, whatever, those 999 01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:46,840 Speaker 6: two devices can connect and talk completely encrypted, either one 1000 01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,960 Speaker 6: on one or if multiple people. Say, for instance, you 1001 01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:54,120 Speaker 6: have an affinity group of like ten people, you all say, okay, hey, 1002 01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:56,960 Speaker 6: in an inn emergency, let's meet up at this place 1003 01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,720 Speaker 6: and physically share a key or pass code or whatever. 1004 01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,440 Speaker 6: Once everybody has that, you can also do encrypted broadcasts 1005 01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,720 Speaker 6: to multiple people as well, so getting up and running 1006 01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:13,080 Speaker 6: is super quick. When it comes to flashing, actually communicating 1007 01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:16,520 Speaker 6: with people makes sense, especially on your phone. It feels 1008 01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:18,520 Speaker 6: just like a normal texting situation. 1009 01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:20,040 Speaker 2: So that's great. 1010 01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,880 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's really it's really amazing. I mean, this is 1011 01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:28,040 Speaker 6: a really interesting technology because, like I've been interested in 1012 01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:32,400 Speaker 6: radio for a while. But the biggest downside to that 1013 01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:36,880 Speaker 6: is a you can't encrypt any kind of radio communications 1014 01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:41,840 Speaker 6: in the US b A license. Yeah, unless if you're 1015 01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,360 Speaker 6: the cops of the military or the FEDS, you cannot 1016 01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,760 Speaker 6: encrypt shit, and if you do, it's it's kind of 1017 01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:53,600 Speaker 6: an issue. But yeah, you can't encrypt messages on regular radios. 1018 01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:59,080 Speaker 6: Another thing is like usability. If you hand somebody like 1019 01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,880 Speaker 6: a bow thaying handheld radio, most people are not going 1020 01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:03,160 Speaker 6: to know. 1021 01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:04,480 Speaker 3: What to do with it at all. 1022 01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:05,840 Speaker 2: They're going to be like, what the fuck is this? 1023 01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:09,200 Speaker 6: But if I hand you a BlackBerry Clone and say, 1024 01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:12,080 Speaker 6: just type, and if you want to send a DM 1025 01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,280 Speaker 6: to somebody to find them and just send it like 1026 01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,840 Speaker 6: it's it's really easy for your average person to pick 1027 01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,400 Speaker 6: it up and use it, which is honestly the best 1028 01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:24,040 Speaker 6: kind of situation, especially in an emergency where you can't 1029 01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:27,920 Speaker 6: really rely on highly technical people all the time, because 1030 01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,840 Speaker 6: what if everybody in your affinity group isn't super technical, 1031 01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,760 Speaker 6: you know, So it's a it's a good common device 1032 01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,760 Speaker 6: that anybody can pick up and start sending messages, even 1033 01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:40,680 Speaker 6: encrypted messages, pretty easily. 1034 01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:46,080 Speaker 2: So I think that covers the technical basics of what 1035 01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:47,760 Speaker 2: you need to do. I did want to ask real 1036 01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:51,000 Speaker 2: quick before we get onto some of the more ideological 1037 01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:55,480 Speaker 2: you know stuff here conversations about like why you specifically 1038 01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,360 Speaker 2: gotten into this and why, like this is important for people. 1039 01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,800 Speaker 2: I wanted to ask just really quickly in terms of 1040 01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,840 Speaker 2: that three D printed case, did you just go search 1041 01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,080 Speaker 2: in some repository and find when someone had made or 1042 01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:07,800 Speaker 2: is there one that you've put up somewhere that you 1043 01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:08,840 Speaker 2: might recommend to people? 1044 01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:09,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? 1045 01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:14,960 Speaker 6: Actually it was recently uploaded to thing thing evers, which 1046 01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,760 Speaker 6: is a website that has free three D print plans 1047 01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:22,880 Speaker 6: and files. And so I just searched up lilygo t 1048 01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,640 Speaker 6: deck on thing everse and the full case, I mean 1049 01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:31,680 Speaker 6: the back yeah has Yeah, it looks like an actual device. 1050 01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:35,840 Speaker 2: And I'm assuming that one's just pla yeah, just Pazza 1051 01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,640 Speaker 2: type super basic. Yeah, yeah, looks great. 1052 01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:43,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, and this only took all these pieces snapped together, 1053 01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:49,360 Speaker 6: so no glue required, and all these pieces took roughly 1054 01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,320 Speaker 6: about eight hours to print at one hundred percent density. 1055 01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:57,960 Speaker 6: So you have a pretty solid case. With plans that 1056 01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,320 Speaker 6: are available online and an eight hours, you can have 1057 01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:07,160 Speaker 6: a literal professional looking device that's protected and able to go, 1058 01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:09,840 Speaker 6: you know, in adverse situations. 1059 01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:10,640 Speaker 5: Yeah. 1060 01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:12,520 Speaker 2: So now I want to get into some of the 1061 01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:15,480 Speaker 2: more kind of like just talking about first off, what 1062 01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:17,960 Speaker 2: got you into this? Like, when did you decide this 1063 01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,200 Speaker 2: is a skill I want to develop and a thing 1064 01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:21,080 Speaker 2: I want to figure out. 1065 01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:23,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. 1066 01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,400 Speaker 6: I mean, so for my day job, I'm an offensive 1067 01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,439 Speaker 6: security consultant, which is just a fancy way of saying 1068 01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,040 Speaker 6: that it's a cool job for a living. 1069 01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:37,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're doing like Red Team stuff. It sounds like, yeah, yeah, exactly. 1070 01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:40,520 Speaker 6: So I've always been interested in technology and specifically like 1071 01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:44,960 Speaker 6: how do you make technology work in the benefit of 1072 01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,880 Speaker 6: people as opposed to working the benefit for profits or 1073 01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:52,800 Speaker 6: corporate interest or state interests. So I think technology is 1074 01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:58,040 Speaker 6: a really good tool when used correctly, and there's a 1075 01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:01,240 Speaker 6: lot of moral and social and political implications when it 1076 01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,080 Speaker 6: comes to technology and actually making it. But that's kind 1077 01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:07,080 Speaker 6: of how I got into it, was kind of combining 1078 01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:13,040 Speaker 6: my interest in computers and hacking combined with kind of 1079 01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:16,600 Speaker 6: the social and political activism I've been a part of. 1080 01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,520 Speaker 6: So that was kind of my entry point into it. 1081 01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes that makes sense, because I do think, 1082 01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:26,320 Speaker 2: like when I think about what inspired me about the 1083 01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:29,960 Speaker 2: early Internet, about like file sharing back in the late nineties, 1084 01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:33,360 Speaker 2: about you know, when Wikipedia first started up and stuff 1085 01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:35,520 Speaker 2: all that stuff like that. We talk a lot about, 1086 01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:38,480 Speaker 2: like the days when we thought the Internet was going 1087 01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:42,600 Speaker 2: to be an unqualified boon for human liberty, the ability 1088 01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:47,760 Speaker 2: to create effectively, like a smaller and more limited private 1089 01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:52,280 Speaker 2: Internet for like you and your people to communicate safely 1090 01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:57,040 Speaker 2: through definitely like scratches that itch. And when we say 1091 01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:59,880 Speaker 2: like more limited Internet, you're not through one of these 1092 01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:01,680 Speaker 2: networks we're talking about. You're not going to be like 1093 01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:04,840 Speaker 2: sending YouTube videos and shit, right, But that's not what 1094 01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:08,120 Speaker 2: it's for, you know. That's it's it's it's got its 1095 01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,480 Speaker 2: own use, and it's very much kind of what the 1096 01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:13,000 Speaker 2: Internet was about at the beginning, which is just allowing 1097 01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:17,440 Speaker 2: people to connect that otherwise wouldn't be able to or 1098 01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:19,000 Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to as securely. 1099 01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:26,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly. And actually the same protocol Loara, you actually 1100 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,640 Speaker 6: kind of can run a basic Internet protocol that it's 1101 01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:34,640 Speaker 6: called Laura WAN Laura Wide Access Networking, and you can 1102 01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,400 Speaker 6: run some pretty basic programs on it outside of just 1103 01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:41,000 Speaker 6: text based stuff. So it's a really interesting kind of 1104 01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:44,600 Speaker 6: rabbit hole to go down into. I will say, if 1105 01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:50,600 Speaker 6: you start looking at Laura and mestastic stuff, you will 1106 01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:54,440 Speaker 6: eventually start to run into like a right leaning, yes, 1107 01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:58,280 Speaker 6: sometimes straight out fascist people because there's a crossover between 1108 01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:02,720 Speaker 6: you know, the the gun community and kind of off 1109 01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:06,520 Speaker 6: grid prepper doomsday prepper people, you know, so you'll run 1110 01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:10,840 Speaker 6: into that. Anyone who doesn't like like the government is 1111 01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:13,400 Speaker 6: going to have a vested interest in being able to 1112 01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:16,760 Speaker 6: communicate in a way that can't be easily intercepted, right 1113 01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:20,920 Speaker 6: like that, And that doesn't always mean your buddies. I 1114 01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:26,280 Speaker 6: think most people are pretty familiar with that exactly. Yea, 1115 01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:32,120 Speaker 6: but yeah, it's it's it's really useful. There there are 1116 01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:35,280 Speaker 6: other ways to, say, for instance, make your own kind 1117 01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:39,840 Speaker 6: of like micro internet. I read an article that talked 1118 01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:43,000 Speaker 6: about making kind of like a DIY Internet in quotes, 1119 01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:49,960 Speaker 6: where you can basically take your home router and connects, say, 1120 01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:53,320 Speaker 6: for instance, your neighbors to the same network, and then 1121 01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:57,599 Speaker 6: if you have a server of your own that has books, 1122 01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:01,439 Speaker 6: that has maps, that has music and information, you can 1123 01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:03,960 Speaker 6: easily share that with other people. And so there are 1124 01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:07,120 Speaker 6: other ways to kind of get your own off grid 1125 01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,160 Speaker 6: quote unquote internet together, but. 1126 01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:15,360 Speaker 2: Just outside of text. But yeah, it's definitely possible. 1127 01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:20,080 Speaker 6: It's just needs a little bit more technical know how, 1128 01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:24,479 Speaker 6: But hopefully soon it'll be a little simpler to where 1129 01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,519 Speaker 6: you can just download something, get you know, a book 1130 01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:30,840 Speaker 6: server up and running, and then have anybody come along 1131 01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:34,080 Speaker 6: and download books about you know, permaculture or about you know, 1132 01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:38,320 Speaker 6: emergency medical aid or fixing infrastructure and stuff like that. 1133 01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:41,040 Speaker 2: So yeah, that's huge being able to actually like transmit 1134 01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:54,360 Speaker 2: text and stuff through that too. So yeah, you said 1135 01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:57,600 Speaker 2: when we were chatting online kind of before we we 1136 01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:00,280 Speaker 2: hooked this up, you said something along the line of 1137 01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:01,960 Speaker 2: you had a bit of a tangent you wanted to 1138 01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:05,000 Speaker 2: go on. So I've asked kind of my questions here 1139 01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:07,559 Speaker 2: if there is anything else you wanted to get out 1140 01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:09,799 Speaker 2: or express or say, just kind of on the subject 1141 01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:17,280 Speaker 2: of people taking more autonomy for themselves in their communications technology. Well, 1142 01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:18,040 Speaker 2: now's the time. 1143 01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:21,320 Speaker 6: Yeah sounds good. 1144 01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:22,200 Speaker 4: I mean so. 1145 01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:27,040 Speaker 6: Earlier you asked, like, what kind of got me into this? Yeah, 1146 01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:30,519 Speaker 6: but there's another situation that happened because I live in Texas, 1147 01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:32,799 Speaker 6: Oh and a couple. 1148 01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know where I'm going with this. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. 1149 01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:38,719 Speaker 6: A couple of years ago, there was a really bad 1150 01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:41,800 Speaker 6: winter storm and for most people listening, you might be 1151 01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:43,559 Speaker 6: in the Northeast, like, who cares. 1152 01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:47,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was there for that storm. Oh it was 1153 01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:49,080 Speaker 2: it was horrible. Was crazy. 1154 01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:49,639 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1155 01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:54,160 Speaker 6: And so for people outside of Texas, you might be saying, Okay, well, 1156 01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:56,960 Speaker 6: winter storm whatever, like, how could that affect anything? But 1157 01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:01,840 Speaker 6: Texas's power grid is privately owned. Yeah, it's completely separate 1158 01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:02,800 Speaker 6: from the RESCUUS. 1159 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:03,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1160 01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,120 Speaker 6: Urka is a private company that runs the Texas power grid. 1161 01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:11,240 Speaker 6: And so we had a winter storm event happen, and 1162 01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:15,680 Speaker 6: our power systems are not in any way built for 1163 01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:19,920 Speaker 6: extreme cold, and so we had the situation where pretty 1164 01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:25,000 Speaker 6: much the entire state was out of power except for 1165 01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:30,080 Speaker 6: maybe a few areas in certain cities that had you know, 1166 01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:33,439 Speaker 6: a specific environment where they had backup generators and stuff 1167 01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:37,720 Speaker 6: like that. But millions of people lost power. And when 1168 01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:40,240 Speaker 6: people lose power, it isn't just oh I can't like 1169 01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:44,759 Speaker 6: watch TV or like do anything. There's lies that are lost, 1170 01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:49,120 Speaker 6: you know, directly from people who require ventilators to live 1171 01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:54,280 Speaker 6: to people who need electricity to run their medical devices. 1172 01:11:55,280 --> 01:12:01,200 Speaker 6: That impacted everything, right, So the power going out impacted transportation, 1173 01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:07,000 Speaker 6: impacted water, it impacted sanitation. So all these bits of 1174 01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:11,439 Speaker 6: infrastructure are all connected, and communications is kind of at 1175 01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:16,760 Speaker 6: the core of our modern day infrastructure, right, because in 1176 01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:20,320 Speaker 6: order to run a power plant, you need to have 1177 01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,439 Speaker 6: power but not only that, you need to be able 1178 01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:26,400 Speaker 6: to communicate with other places in order to properly run 1179 01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:32,040 Speaker 6: the water sanitation program. Same with transportation. I mean, if 1180 01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:36,920 Speaker 6: communication goes out, you literally can't deliver food, You literally 1181 01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,040 Speaker 6: can't deliver water to people and places that need it. 1182 01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,920 Speaker 6: And so it's not just an impact directly to communications, 1183 01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:47,880 Speaker 6: but an impact to your entire life. And so when 1184 01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:51,880 Speaker 6: we're talking about these pieces of infrastructure, we really have 1185 01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:56,040 Speaker 6: to think about the larger picture of how all this 1186 01:12:56,240 --> 01:13:00,880 Speaker 6: infrastructure's integrated in our lives, and how an impact to 1187 01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,759 Speaker 6: one part of it can impact your life in ways 1188 01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:04,960 Speaker 6: that you never even thought of. 1189 01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:09,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and that's also I mean, I think I 1190 01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,240 Speaker 2: would imagine one of the benefits. I can say, just 1191 01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:15,280 Speaker 2: from sort of the fairly minimal degree to which I've 1192 01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:19,160 Speaker 2: done stuff like understand the basics of solar power and 1193 01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:21,639 Speaker 2: what I can do and can't do in my area 1194 01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,360 Speaker 2: with it, you know, even outside of the stuff that 1195 01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:28,240 Speaker 2: is green and renewable, understanding like how you can and 1196 01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:31,639 Speaker 2: cannot use generators in an emergency, and like which work. 1197 01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,479 Speaker 2: It's just given me more of an understanding of how 1198 01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:36,840 Speaker 2: the regular stuff that I use day to day works. 1199 01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:38,720 Speaker 2: A little bit better about what the real power draw 1200 01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,519 Speaker 2: of my life is, you know, and anytime you're kind 1201 01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:47,400 Speaker 2: of expanding your autonomy technologically, it also just increases the 1202 01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:49,760 Speaker 2: degree to which you understand what's going on every day, 1203 01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:53,120 Speaker 2: which I think is always of value, right, Like, even 1204 01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:57,680 Speaker 2: outside of whatever theoreticals we might prompt for like what 1205 01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:00,360 Speaker 2: could happen or what is likely to happen, because we're 1206 01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:02,479 Speaker 2: all going to deal with more disasters in our lives 1207 01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:07,599 Speaker 2: before they're over, hopefully more than one. The alternative is worse. 1208 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:12,400 Speaker 2: But yeah, well that's kind of all I had to say. 1209 01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:14,200 Speaker 2: Did you have anything else you wanted to get into 1210 01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:15,320 Speaker 2: before we roll out? 1211 01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:16,200 Speaker 7: Uh? 1212 01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:19,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean there are a bunch of use cases 1213 01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:24,040 Speaker 6: outside of like whether events or natural disasters to protests 1214 01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:28,120 Speaker 6: is one of them. A really big security concern when 1215 01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:33,360 Speaker 6: you're at a protest is bringing your cell phone. Not 1216 01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:36,360 Speaker 6: a lot of people know that your cell phone has 1217 01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:43,080 Speaker 6: a unique identifier number, and police governments states all have 1218 01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:46,840 Speaker 6: technology to basically like bring up a fake cell phone 1219 01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:50,120 Speaker 6: tower and have your device connect to it, so there 1220 01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:52,560 Speaker 6: are ways to track Say, for instance, you go to 1221 01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:55,640 Speaker 6: a protest, you have your phone on. Now your identifier 1222 01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:59,840 Speaker 6: is kind of tied to being at this protest, right, 1223 01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:03,800 Speaker 6: But with technology like this, it kind of circumvents that, 1224 01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:06,880 Speaker 6: especially when it comes to the ability for a threat 1225 01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,559 Speaker 6: actor to track you or know that you've been there. 1226 01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:13,800 Speaker 6: And it's encrypted, so even if say, for instance, a 1227 01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:19,040 Speaker 6: police department was able to intercept low raw, they wouldn't 1228 01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:21,760 Speaker 6: be able to read the messages period. And so that's 1229 01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:25,280 Speaker 6: another good thing. Same with you know, conflict zones. Yeah, 1230 01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:28,880 Speaker 6: you know, we're seeing now with the genocide that's happening 1231 01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:34,080 Speaker 6: in Palestine with the Palestinians, it's increasingly harder for people 1232 01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:38,640 Speaker 6: to communicate what areas are safe. It's hard to communicate 1233 01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:41,760 Speaker 6: you know, oh, we need to get out now, have 1234 01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:45,519 Speaker 6: an early warning system of there are literal tanks coming 1235 01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:47,040 Speaker 6: down the highway towards us. 1236 01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:47,880 Speaker 2: We need to leave. 1237 01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:51,240 Speaker 6: And so something like this can also be you know, 1238 01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:54,639 Speaker 6: really good in that situation because again the messages are encrypted, 1239 01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:57,720 Speaker 6: it can go pretty long range, especially if you have 1240 01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:01,080 Speaker 6: direct line of sight. We're talking like up to ten miles, 1241 01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:05,000 Speaker 6: and so being able to just send a text message 1242 01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:08,080 Speaker 6: to somebody can save someone's life in a situation like that. 1243 01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:11,240 Speaker 6: So there's a lot of different use cases outside of 1244 01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,519 Speaker 6: you know emergencies that this stuff can be used. But 1245 01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:19,080 Speaker 6: that's where building the autonomy kind of comes from. And 1246 01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:23,160 Speaker 6: if we're talking about like leftist political organizing and talking 1247 01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:29,560 Speaker 6: about building a better future, being autonomous from stay in 1248 01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:34,519 Speaker 6: corporate controlled infrastructure is really important, right because if say, 1249 01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:39,080 Speaker 6: for instance, hypothetically we had the Big R Revolution, right, 1250 01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:41,720 Speaker 6: the first thing that people in power are going to 1251 01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:45,639 Speaker 6: go after is power, water, sanitation, and communications. Right, They're 1252 01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,519 Speaker 6: going to go after the main infrastructure. And so if 1253 01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:52,479 Speaker 6: we want to have an autonomous and free future, we 1254 01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:58,640 Speaker 6: have to think about collectively owning the means of infrastructure, 1255 01:16:58,800 --> 01:16:59,799 Speaker 6: not just the means of production. 1256 01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:05,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and even outside you know, the Big R scenario, 1257 01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:07,519 Speaker 2: something that I think is probably at least certainly more 1258 01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:12,920 Speaker 2: immediate is continuing sort of downs in social order and 1259 01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:20,240 Speaker 2: areas expanding where non state actors, including the aforementioned Nazis 1260 01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:22,960 Speaker 2: that we had talked about, are able to get bolder, right, 1261 01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:24,560 Speaker 2: And like one thing we've seen right now, if you 1262 01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:28,680 Speaker 2: watch videos of cartel operations in parts of Mexico right now, 1263 01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:31,240 Speaker 2: one thing you will see on they're really good guys 1264 01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:35,400 Speaker 2: right on their special ops style teams is they will 1265 01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:37,960 Speaker 2: all have these weird looking things look kind of like 1266 01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:40,760 Speaker 2: a microphone attached to their plate carriers, and that's a 1267 01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:43,000 Speaker 2: cell jammer. It's the standard thing for them to carry 1268 01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:46,360 Speaker 2: into the field because it stops people from reporting in 1269 01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:49,879 Speaker 2: real time when they're carrying out an operation. And cartels 1270 01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:51,960 Speaker 2: are not the only people who do that, right, Like, 1271 01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:54,560 Speaker 2: it is a widely used tactic now, you see it 1272 01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:57,920 Speaker 2: all over in Ukraine. Right, it's in part not just 1273 01:17:58,000 --> 01:17:59,960 Speaker 2: because of like cell phones, but because of like shit 1274 01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:04,040 Speaker 2: like drones and stuff. It's it's just an increasingly common thing. 1275 01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:07,080 Speaker 2: And so when you're talking about what our threats that 1276 01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:10,080 Speaker 2: are realistic, well, it's not just the state that can 1277 01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:13,920 Speaker 2: interrupt your ability to communicate traditionally, right, it's also your 1278 01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:17,360 Speaker 2: non state opponents. And so for a variety of reasons, 1279 01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:22,640 Speaker 2: having backups, having alternates is just an incredibly important thing 1280 01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:29,360 Speaker 2: to be able to do to some extent, Yeah, definitely, Yeah, 1281 01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:31,360 Speaker 2: Well anything else. 1282 01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:37,120 Speaker 6: No, I mean, right now, I'm working on a kind 1283 01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:39,040 Speaker 6: of step by step article that kind of goes into 1284 01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:43,240 Speaker 6: more detail on what you need to do this, all 1285 01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:46,720 Speaker 6: the equipment you need, how to actually flash devices, how 1286 01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:51,280 Speaker 6: to start sending messages, and so once that's ready, I'll 1287 01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:54,519 Speaker 6: publish it. I publish you know, diy articles and stuff 1288 01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:58,680 Speaker 6: to my substack. It's an archosolar punk. Or you can 1289 01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:02,240 Speaker 6: go to Hydroponic track and I have a link there 1290 01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:03,599 Speaker 6: that goes to substack as well. 1291 01:19:05,479 --> 01:19:10,400 Speaker 2: Beautiful. Well, all right, Hydroponic Trash, thank you so much 1292 01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:14,160 Speaker 2: for everything. This has really been useful and enlightening. I'm 1293 01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:16,680 Speaker 2: going to go hop on to Ali Express in a 1294 01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:20,920 Speaker 2: second here and make a couple of purchases and I'm 1295 01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:23,120 Speaker 2: sure there's going to be a number of folks doing 1296 01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:25,799 Speaker 2: a version of that again. You can find our guests 1297 01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:30,400 Speaker 2: at Hydroponic Trash on Twitter where you can get in 1298 01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,880 Speaker 2: touch with them and keep an eye on what they're 1299 01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:37,000 Speaker 2: writing their substack. Very very excited to play around with 1300 01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:40,040 Speaker 2: this technology. Thank you so much for working to make 1301 01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:40,759 Speaker 2: it more visible. 1302 01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:43,240 Speaker 6: Yeah, of course, thanks for having me on. 1303 01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:58,080 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely everyone. 1304 01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:01,080 Speaker 1: It's me James and I'm jo today by Erica, who 1305 01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:04,320 Speaker 1: is an attorney the director at Alotto Lada, which is 1306 01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:08,320 Speaker 1: a binational nonprofit that does legal humanitarian aid between San 1307 01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:11,800 Speaker 1: Diego and Tijuana, and we're here to discuss the open 1308 01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:16,160 Speaker 1: air detention sites and some things that Jim Desmond, one 1309 01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:18,320 Speaker 1: of our County supervisors has been saying about them. 1310 01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:19,760 Speaker 2: So welcome to the show, Erica. 1311 01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:21,439 Speaker 5: Thank you for having me. 1312 01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:24,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, it's nice to have you here. Thanks 1313 01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:27,040 Speaker 1: for taking the time. So I want to start off 1314 01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:30,240 Speaker 1: by talking about Jim Desmond today, which is something I 1315 01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,040 Speaker 1: like to do if people aren't familiar with Jim Desmond. 1316 01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:36,960 Speaker 1: Jim Desmond is a supervisor in San Diego County. He's 1317 01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:40,479 Speaker 1: from District five, which is northern San Diego County. He's 1318 01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:43,519 Speaker 1: a Republican. He's the former mayor of San Marcos, which 1319 01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:45,519 Speaker 1: is a city in North County, and before that he 1320 01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:48,479 Speaker 1: was a pilot in the Navy. He's pretty much like 1321 01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:51,760 Speaker 1: a standard culture war boomer and a reminder to us 1322 01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:53,519 Speaker 1: all that there are people that live today who grew 1323 01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:56,879 Speaker 1: up when they put lead and children to toys. Notable 1324 01:20:57,680 --> 01:21:01,960 Speaker 1: Jim Desmond's dances include his starts on climate change, which 1325 01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:04,439 Speaker 1: I'm just going to read to you. Try and follow 1326 01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:08,840 Speaker 1: it if you can. It's a challenge. I think the 1327 01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:11,280 Speaker 1: climate has been changing since the beginning of time. The 1328 01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:14,880 Speaker 1: climate comes and the climate goes. The Great Lakes the 1329 01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:18,480 Speaker 1: Great Plains is a Yosemite valley all formed by glaciers. 1330 01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:22,439 Speaker 1: They've been gone a long long time, So you find 1331 01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:25,479 Speaker 1: seashells on mountaintops, you see where it used to be. 1332 01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:28,479 Speaker 1: You know, the land masses were Pangaea, and then the 1333 01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:31,559 Speaker 1: land matters all change and move around. So I say, 1334 01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:33,519 Speaker 1: we may be part of climate change, but I think 1335 01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:36,160 Speaker 1: the only reason we're here and we're still here today 1336 01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:38,920 Speaker 1: is because we as a species learn to adapt to 1337 01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:43,160 Speaker 1: different climates and climate changes. Now, maybe we're maybe exacerbating 1338 01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:45,400 Speaker 1: it a bit towards the end of the warming trend, 1339 01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:46,240 Speaker 1: but I don't know that. 1340 01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:52,679 Speaker 5: So it's just it's about as convoluted as his governing 1341 01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:55,000 Speaker 5: strategy here in San Diego County. 1342 01:21:55,439 --> 01:21:59,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's said a lot of words, but it really 1343 01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:02,040 Speaker 1: conveyed very little meaning. But yeah, this is kind of 1344 01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:06,160 Speaker 1: he seems to like speaking, but but maybe like he 1345 01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:07,960 Speaker 1: doesn't take quite as long as one would hope to 1346 01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:10,560 Speaker 1: plan out where he's going with its sentences before he 1347 01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:13,559 Speaker 1: delivers him. He also has a podcast, so I guess 1348 01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:16,960 Speaker 1: our podcasting rival, did you have you listened to his podcast? 1349 01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:22,000 Speaker 5: Dereka, No, I am, but it might be entertaining, so yeah, 1350 01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:22,880 Speaker 5: I'll take a look at it. 1351 01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:23,799 Speaker 2: Definitely. 1352 01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:26,920 Speaker 1: I know it'll you can learn some things about coronavirus 1353 01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:32,519 Speaker 1: for instance. God, yeah, it's good stuff. In May of 1354 01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:36,439 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, he claimed there had been six pure solely 1355 01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:40,040 Speaker 1: coronavirus deaths. The other two hundred or so that happened 1356 01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:43,160 Speaker 1: to guacted by them. We're not quote unquote pure coronavirus deaths. 1357 01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:47,719 Speaker 1: I guess by his estimation. So in this little escapade 1358 01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,519 Speaker 1: got him cited by Joe Rogan on the Joe Rogan Podcast, 1359 01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:53,800 Speaker 1: which must have been a great moment for Desmond. He 1360 01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:56,559 Speaker 1: hosted a ton of COVID skeptics on his podcast as well. 1361 01:22:56,680 --> 01:23:01,879 Speaker 1: Throughout the lockdowns he did after he caused some controversy 1362 01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:05,360 Speaker 1: on Twitter, which is a recurring theme, he hosted an 1363 01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:08,080 Speaker 1: actual immunologist on his show, and this was the only 1364 01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:10,840 Speaker 1: guest who he really kind of argued with, and in 1365 01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:14,400 Speaker 1: doing so, he said, I quote, the herd needs to 1366 01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:17,080 Speaker 1: get it, and he's talking about COVID here and we'll 1367 01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:19,200 Speaker 1: have a better handle on it. So to me, the 1368 01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:21,720 Speaker 1: number of cases means the herd's getting it, so that's 1369 01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:25,760 Speaker 1: a good thing. And then his guests corrected in pointing 1370 01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:29,400 Speaker 1: out that there needs to be like immunity for there 1371 01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:32,160 Speaker 1: to be heard immunity. And while he's just looking at 1372 01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:38,560 Speaker 1: it is contagion, not immunity, so he sort of He 1373 01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:41,200 Speaker 1: continued to make these claims throughout the pandemic, right that 1374 01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:45,960 Speaker 1: the lockdown was holding our jobs hostage, bad for the economy. 1375 01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:48,679 Speaker 1: He wasn't an anti maskt Interestingly, he said we should 1376 01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:51,840 Speaker 1: wear masks. That's what it took to open the businesses again. 1377 01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:56,639 Speaker 1: And he at least I mean, he's always been pretty 1378 01:23:57,000 --> 01:23:59,799 Speaker 1: terrible on boarder stuff, right, Erica. I'm sure you've encountered 1379 01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:01,240 Speaker 1: to his border stances before. 1380 01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:05,160 Speaker 5: I think all of the supervisors are terrible on border stuff. 1381 01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:07,760 Speaker 5: But at least he says the quiet part out loud. 1382 01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:09,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1383 01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:10,439 Speaker 5: We'll get more into that later. 1384 01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:12,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to talk about how that. 1385 01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:16,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that the the Democrats been terrible on the border 1386 01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:18,400 Speaker 1: is something that I think we can't say enough. In 1387 01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:22,360 Speaker 1: recent months, he held a press conference claiming the border 1388 01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:25,600 Speaker 1: should be shut down to prevent an influx It's not 1389 01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:27,600 Speaker 1: a quote, it's a peraphrase here, but to prevent an 1390 01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:29,919 Speaker 1: influx of har mass fighters, which. 1391 01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:31,080 Speaker 2: I don't know. 1392 01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:33,760 Speaker 1: It shows a misunderstanding of a lot of things, like 1393 01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:38,280 Speaker 1: like how her mass works, and also how the border works, 1394 01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:42,800 Speaker 1: like the idea that a one could leave Gaza at 1395 01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:46,080 Speaker 1: this time and be that one could just fly into 1396 01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:50,880 Speaker 1: Mexico like where of course, like they wouldn't immediately notice 1397 01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:53,479 Speaker 1: that you had come like armed and equipped to attack 1398 01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:54,280 Speaker 1: the US border. 1399 01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:57,600 Speaker 5: But I think just with the COVID stuff and with 1400 01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:01,640 Speaker 5: the border stuff, he is just throwing red meat to 1401 01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:06,400 Speaker 5: his base. But it's not necessarily aligned with what he does, 1402 01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:09,439 Speaker 5: and I would assume it's not aligned with what he 1403 01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:13,519 Speaker 5: actually knows. Like we're the COVID stuff. He did set 1404 01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:18,439 Speaker 5: up vaccination clinics in his district, and so he's clearly 1405 01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:21,960 Speaker 5: not a complete skeptic, at least that's not what his 1406 01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:24,920 Speaker 5: actions showed. And I think for some of your listeners 1407 01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:26,600 Speaker 5: who are not in the United States or maybe not 1408 01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:29,679 Speaker 5: in California, we are on the border in San Diego. 1409 01:25:30,120 --> 01:25:34,120 Speaker 5: You can get to Mexico within you know, if you're 1410 01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:37,800 Speaker 5: in Jim Desmon's district, within half an hour you're in Tijuana. 1411 01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:40,479 Speaker 5: And I assume he's been here for many years, and 1412 01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:44,200 Speaker 5: so he has to know more about the border than 1413 01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:49,200 Speaker 5: he's letting on. It's just really like he's regurgitating the 1414 01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:54,160 Speaker 5: right wing narrative to garner political points. I think in 1415 01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:57,439 Speaker 5: a county where he's the last standing Republican on the 1416 01:25:57,479 --> 01:26:01,720 Speaker 5: board of supervisors, So I think that's important to remember too. 1417 01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:04,840 Speaker 1: Definitely, it definitely seems like this is kind of and 1418 01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:06,920 Speaker 1: you see he does a lot of appearance on writing 1419 01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:10,760 Speaker 1: news channels, right, Like he's often on Fox. But then 1420 01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:14,080 Speaker 1: our local kind of crazy writ wing news channel is KUSI, 1421 01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:17,200 Speaker 1: who have really doubled down on the culture war stuff 1422 01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:21,559 Speaker 1: since like twenty twenty, and you'll see him on there 1423 01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:23,280 Speaker 1: a lot and talking about the border a lot. Right. 1424 01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:26,400 Speaker 1: It seems to, as you say, like either be like 1425 01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:29,000 Speaker 1: an attempt for reelection or perhaps for higher office. I 1426 01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:31,840 Speaker 1: don't know, but he he'll make a lot of claims 1427 01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:33,880 Speaker 1: about the border which are just patently untrue, which is 1428 01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:35,640 Speaker 1: what I want to talk about now. 1429 01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:39,360 Speaker 2: So he spent his New Year's. 1430 01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:43,280 Speaker 1: Day in Cucumber making little videos for Twitter and Instagram. 1431 01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:45,880 Speaker 1: I was there only year days too. I didn't atually 1432 01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:49,040 Speaker 1: see him, which is a shame. But that day they 1433 01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:51,040 Speaker 1: weren't many people at all who are in the open 1434 01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:55,960 Speaker 1: air attention sites, so he sort of made videos in 1435 01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:56,800 Speaker 1: front of empty tents. 1436 01:26:56,840 --> 01:26:57,479 Speaker 2: It was a bit weird. 1437 01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:00,920 Speaker 1: In his first one, he wrote, today I visited the 1438 01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:04,360 Speaker 1: border and migrant encampments in Ucumber. The chaos continues with 1439 01:27:04,439 --> 01:27:06,920 Speaker 1: dozens of people camping out waiting for border patrol to 1440 01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:09,880 Speaker 1: take them to resource center paid for by county taxpayers. 1441 01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:14,200 Speaker 1: And he's not like you could. I'm sure Erica, you 1442 01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:16,120 Speaker 1: can explain this as well. He's not wrong that they 1443 01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:19,519 Speaker 1: may eventually end up at the quote unquote welcome center, 1444 01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:24,040 Speaker 1: which is paid for by county funds, which came from 1445 01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:26,439 Speaker 1: the American Rescue Act, which is of course federal money. 1446 01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:29,080 Speaker 1: But it's a little more complicated than that, isn't it. 1447 01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:34,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, So the migrants are being held in what are 1448 01:27:34,479 --> 01:27:39,479 Speaker 5: essentially open air prisons by border patrol. We the collective 1449 01:27:39,640 --> 01:27:43,599 Speaker 5: of nonprofits, mutual aid groups and volunteers are the only 1450 01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:50,120 Speaker 5: ones who've been paying for water, food, medical assistance, shelter, 1451 01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:53,160 Speaker 5: et cetera for people who are being held in these 1452 01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:56,960 Speaker 5: open air prisons, sometimes for days at a time, including 1453 01:27:57,000 --> 01:28:01,639 Speaker 5: the medically infirm and children. And so I think that's 1454 01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:05,040 Speaker 5: one piece of it to understand, because he did say 1455 01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:08,320 Speaker 5: in his when he was speaking in front of the 1456 01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:11,519 Speaker 5: empty tent, that the county tax payers were paying for 1457 01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:15,920 Speaker 5: those things, which is patently untrue. But then just again, 1458 01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:20,080 Speaker 5: understanding the process is something that he has to understand. 1459 01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:22,760 Speaker 5: He's been here for decades. He has to know that 1460 01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:27,520 Speaker 5: these people are being taken into border patrol custody process 1461 01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:32,000 Speaker 5: and then either released to the county funded welcome center 1462 01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:36,640 Speaker 5: or they are detained by immigration And so it's the 1463 01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:39,080 Speaker 5: same legal process we've had for decades at the border, 1464 01:28:39,160 --> 01:28:42,200 Speaker 5: where people have a right to seek asylum, whether they 1465 01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:45,280 Speaker 5: enter at a port of entry or not. And the 1466 01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:48,680 Speaker 5: real controversy here is the fact that border patrol is 1467 01:28:49,240 --> 01:28:52,680 Speaker 5: holding people outdoors for days at a time without the 1468 01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:53,840 Speaker 5: things that they need to survive. 1469 01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:57,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to get back to that claid that 1470 01:28:57,040 --> 01:28:59,040 Speaker 1: he made right that the county paid for it. We 1471 01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:02,280 Speaker 1: got some video of him making that claim, so we'll 1472 01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:03,559 Speaker 1: just play it here. 1473 01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:09,080 Speaker 8: As we look inside this abandoned tents, there's a sandwich 1474 01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:16,160 Speaker 8: left in a baggy, there's water with bananas, ponchos, crackers, snacks, waters, 1475 01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:17,679 Speaker 8: and this tent is empty. 1476 01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:21,040 Speaker 3: Maybe that's just the same way. 1477 01:29:21,160 --> 01:29:22,840 Speaker 5: There's no one here yet. 1478 01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:24,080 Speaker 3: Probably in the next day or. 1479 01:29:24,120 --> 01:29:27,960 Speaker 8: So, there'll be more migrants coming inhabiting Nessa and then 1480 01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:30,519 Speaker 8: being process for San Diego County, being paid for with 1481 01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:31,440 Speaker 8: San Diego. 1482 01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:36,280 Speaker 1: Tax So in the caption that accompanied this video, he wrote, quote, 1483 01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:39,519 Speaker 1: during my recent boarder visit, I encountered an abandoned campsite 1484 01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:42,960 Speaker 1: filled with tents, food, drinks, and campfires, paid for by 1485 01:29:43,240 --> 01:29:46,120 Speaker 1: San Diego County taxpayers. This site is used as a 1486 01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:49,519 Speaker 1: temporary holding site before migrants and then processed into our country. 1487 01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:52,400 Speaker 1: And this like gets to the thing I think that 1488 01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:54,760 Speaker 1: lewis where he like bullshitted too close to the sun, 1489 01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:57,960 Speaker 1: because none of that, as you said, was paid for 1490 01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:01,000 Speaker 1: by taxpayers, right, all of that was paid for by 1491 01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:05,360 Speaker 1: yeah people like nonprofit to each aid people. 1492 01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:08,680 Speaker 2: And can you give a sense of the amount. 1493 01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:12,120 Speaker 1: Of spending that Alotrolado has had to take on to 1494 01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:17,040 Speaker 1: make these open air prisidents like survivable for people, and 1495 01:30:17,439 --> 01:30:19,960 Speaker 1: even still they're deeply unpleasant even with all the work. 1496 01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:21,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1497 01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:26,360 Speaker 5: So we have acted as a fiscal sponsor for a 1498 01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:29,960 Speaker 5: lot of the smaller groups because we are able to 1499 01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:32,599 Speaker 5: receive foundation funding as a five H one C three 1500 01:30:33,280 --> 01:30:37,080 Speaker 5: and so we've used that legal status to support a 1501 01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:39,479 Speaker 5: lot of the mutual aid groups that have been spending 1502 01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:42,880 Speaker 5: tens of thousands of dollars. But I've gone through the 1503 01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:46,840 Speaker 5: budgets and we've spent an average of about one hundred 1504 01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:50,360 Speaker 5: and fifty thousand dollars per month, which is a lot 1505 01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:53,680 Speaker 5: for us. But when you look at the Department of 1506 01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:58,120 Speaker 5: Homeland Security, which should be spending this money, they have 1507 01:30:58,240 --> 01:31:03,360 Speaker 5: one hundred and seventy billion dollar budget for twenty twenty three. 1508 01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:05,360 Speaker 5: I think it's even higher for a fiscal year twenty 1509 01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:08,640 Speaker 5: twenty four, So it's really you know, probably what they 1510 01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:12,640 Speaker 5: spend on one of those autonomous surveillance towers that are 1511 01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:15,120 Speaker 5: sitting in the camps in like a day, right, So 1512 01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:17,679 Speaker 5: it's really nothing for them. You know, it's very clear 1513 01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:22,559 Speaker 5: that they're making a choice to leave these really vulnerable 1514 01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:26,120 Speaker 5: migrants to potentially die in the desert. And then when 1515 01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:29,640 Speaker 5: we look at the county funding, you know, they've allocated 1516 01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:33,519 Speaker 5: now six million dollars to this welcome center, which you know, 1517 01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:37,520 Speaker 5: we'll talk about in more detail, but it's really providing 1518 01:31:37,680 --> 01:31:41,200 Speaker 5: woefully inadequate services to the same population that's going through 1519 01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:44,040 Speaker 5: these open air detention sites after they've been released from 1520 01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:47,840 Speaker 5: Border Patrol custody. So again it's like it's a lot 1521 01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:49,639 Speaker 5: of money for us, it's not a lot of money 1522 01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:52,519 Speaker 5: for the county. I would love it if the county 1523 01:31:52,600 --> 01:31:55,520 Speaker 5: would pay for it, if they've stated on multiple occasions 1524 01:31:55,520 --> 01:32:00,640 Speaker 5: if they will not. It's been pure philanthropic funding and donations. 1525 01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:04,200 Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean we've been able to do a 1526 01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:06,320 Speaker 5: lot with very little, and it really was the bare 1527 01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:10,880 Speaker 5: minimum to keep people alive. So yeah, if we had 1528 01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:13,439 Speaker 5: an actual junion of county funding, I'm sure we could 1529 01:32:13,479 --> 01:32:14,160 Speaker 5: have done a lot more. 1530 01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:18,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and like even we don't have access to the 1531 01:32:18,240 --> 01:32:20,760 Speaker 1: things that government has access to, right Like, normally in 1532 01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:25,880 Speaker 1: a refugee situation, we'd have UNHCR tents, we'd have humanitarian 1533 01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:29,200 Speaker 1: MRIs like we had to buy those. On this we 1534 01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:31,760 Speaker 1: couldn't get the tents and we end the MRIs. We 1535 01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:35,960 Speaker 1: had to find on the surplus market, right like, we can't. 1536 01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:39,160 Speaker 1: The state could do more for less, but they're very 1537 01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:42,400 Speaker 1: much choosing not to, as you said, So what the 1538 01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:44,840 Speaker 1: result of this was rather amusing a number of people 1539 01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:47,519 Speaker 1: from mutual A groups, including friends of ours from free 1540 01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:52,240 Speaker 1: Ship Collective, took to Desmond to office with literal receipts 1541 01:32:52,360 --> 01:32:57,679 Speaker 1: right like receipts. Yes, yeah, it was a tremendous moment. 1542 01:32:58,240 --> 01:33:00,599 Speaker 1: And we don't mean receipts like in the figure difference. 1543 01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:02,839 Speaker 1: We need like pieces of paper from Costco. 1544 01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:04,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah no. 1545 01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:08,040 Speaker 5: And the fact is, you know, within a number of hours, 1546 01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:12,920 Speaker 5: the folks from Free Shit Collective and others were able 1547 01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:16,519 Speaker 5: to just pull together over sixteen thousand dollars in receipts. 1548 01:33:17,280 --> 01:33:20,400 Speaker 5: And that's, like I mentioned, a small fraction of what 1549 01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:23,080 Speaker 5: we've actually been spending. That's probably just their receipts from 1550 01:33:23,120 --> 01:33:26,519 Speaker 5: the week. And so again for us, it's like that's 1551 01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:30,040 Speaker 5: an enormous lift. I know, we're all exhausted, those of 1552 01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:32,080 Speaker 5: us who have been working in the open air detention sites. 1553 01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:35,559 Speaker 5: It's exhausting to be there all the time. It's exhausting 1554 01:33:35,640 --> 01:33:38,000 Speaker 5: to try to raise enough money to keep thousands and 1555 01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:41,879 Speaker 5: thousands of people alive when they're forced into a deadly situation. 1556 01:33:42,120 --> 01:33:45,479 Speaker 5: And so it's I think we were all pretty pissed 1557 01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:48,479 Speaker 5: off when we heard him taking credit for that, even 1558 01:33:48,520 --> 01:33:51,080 Speaker 5: if he was trying to denigrate, you know, the idea 1559 01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:52,600 Speaker 5: of spending money on refugees. 1560 01:33:53,479 --> 01:33:56,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Like it's funny because he'll also say, like 1561 01:33:56,320 --> 01:34:00,519 Speaker 1: it's inhumane, it's unacceptable, But like if you're not going 1562 01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:03,080 Speaker 1: to do anything to stop the humanity, the inhumanity, like 1563 01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:05,960 Speaker 1: I don't really find that a very believable claim, Like 1564 01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:10,120 Speaker 1: he was literally standing Willows, so like less than a 1565 01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:13,360 Speaker 1: mile from where we spend that day making sandwiches and 1566 01:34:13,479 --> 01:34:17,040 Speaker 1: cooking beans and doing the things we do every day 1567 01:34:17,120 --> 01:34:20,240 Speaker 1: sorting out coats, you know, And he could have come helped, 1568 01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:23,160 Speaker 1: or even just come and said, what you guys are 1569 01:34:23,200 --> 01:34:26,560 Speaker 1: doing is great, but he chose not to. He just 1570 01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:29,519 Speaker 1: stood in front of his whoever was filming him alied. 1571 01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:32,280 Speaker 5: His proposed solution is to close the border, which he 1572 01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:36,760 Speaker 5: knows is not an option because the Refugee Convention is 1573 01:34:36,800 --> 01:34:39,400 Speaker 5: still a thing. The US is still a signatory. You know, 1574 01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:43,599 Speaker 5: we have legal obligations under both domestic and international law 1575 01:34:43,720 --> 01:34:46,840 Speaker 5: to accept asylum seekers in our country. And so you know, 1576 01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:51,400 Speaker 5: his solution to the inhumanity is to push people back 1577 01:34:51,479 --> 01:34:54,200 Speaker 5: over the Mexican border, where you know they're subject to 1578 01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:58,519 Speaker 5: all manner of state and criminal violence. So I don't 1579 01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:03,400 Speaker 5: think the inhumanity is really his priority to address. It's 1580 01:35:03,479 --> 01:35:06,160 Speaker 5: really again just like throwing red meat to the base 1581 01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:10,479 Speaker 5: to you know, this open border's hysteria that they all 1582 01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:11,200 Speaker 5: love to cite. 1583 01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:15,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, talking of hysteria, we should take a little break 1584 01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:20,120 Speaker 1: for some adverts for things that might try to get 1585 01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:21,960 Speaker 1: you to buy them by making your freight, and you shouldn't. 1586 01:35:32,640 --> 01:35:35,320 Speaker 1: We are back, and yeah, I want to talk a 1587 01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:37,760 Speaker 1: little more about that. Like, is this idea of a 1588 01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:40,880 Speaker 1: closed boarder you see a lot mostly from Republicans right, Like, 1589 01:35:41,320 --> 01:35:43,760 Speaker 1: it's like you say, it's not only legally impossible, but 1590 01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:45,600 Speaker 1: it's also like physically impossible. 1591 01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:46,559 Speaker 5: And we. 1592 01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:50,639 Speaker 1: People enter the US through gaps in the border war 1593 01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:53,280 Speaker 1: when people enter the US through gaps in the border wall, 1594 01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:55,400 Speaker 1: I should add, because we've made it virtually impossible for 1595 01:35:55,520 --> 01:35:59,439 Speaker 1: them to get asylum appointments in a reasonable timeframe and 1596 01:35:59,560 --> 01:36:01,240 Speaker 1: to be in a place that's safe while they make 1597 01:36:01,320 --> 01:36:04,760 Speaker 1: those appointments. And so like the idea that we could 1598 01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:08,439 Speaker 1: how do we close you know, like the physical border? 1599 01:36:10,080 --> 01:36:14,360 Speaker 5: Well just yeah, I mean I just want to take 1600 01:36:14,479 --> 01:36:18,439 Speaker 5: a step back for one second, because this sort of 1601 01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:22,000 Speaker 5: Biden's open borders hysteria that we've heard so much from 1602 01:36:22,040 --> 01:36:25,519 Speaker 5: the right wing, I think it's worth unpacking what this 1603 01:36:25,760 --> 01:36:29,240 Speaker 5: means because I've seen, you know, people in the Democratic 1604 01:36:29,320 --> 01:36:33,000 Speaker 5: Party or even people on the left really shy away 1605 01:36:33,040 --> 01:36:35,360 Speaker 5: from this idea of open borders. And when those of 1606 01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:38,599 Speaker 5: us who have first world passports already have a world 1607 01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:40,479 Speaker 5: of open borders. I mean, we can pretty much go 1608 01:36:40,520 --> 01:36:44,280 Speaker 5: wherever we want, you know, we gentrify O their countries 1609 01:36:44,360 --> 01:36:48,000 Speaker 5: to their detriment, Like it's not there really are not 1610 01:36:48,160 --> 01:36:53,080 Speaker 5: many restrictions on first world citizens moving around the world. 1611 01:36:53,160 --> 01:36:57,320 Speaker 5: So I think that's one important thing to consider as 1612 01:36:57,400 --> 01:36:59,920 Speaker 5: we're kind of launching into this discussion. It's like open 1613 01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:02,280 Speaker 5: borders are okay for me, but not for brown people. 1614 01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:05,720 Speaker 5: Like yeah, so little, you know, And that's kind of 1615 01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:09,599 Speaker 5: the underlying impetus behind a lot of what we're going 1616 01:37:09,640 --> 01:37:13,280 Speaker 5: to talk about in San Diego County. It's like people 1617 01:37:13,720 --> 01:37:16,040 Speaker 5: this underlying idea that people should not have the right 1618 01:37:16,120 --> 01:37:18,920 Speaker 5: to come here, which is just ludicrous. So I think 1619 01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:22,960 Speaker 5: that's one thing. But when we're talking about asylum in particular, 1620 01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:27,639 Speaker 5: you know, like I mentioned earlier, we are signatories Refugee 1621 01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:32,439 Speaker 5: Convention and the subsequent nineteen sixty seven Protocol. This has 1622 01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:36,120 Speaker 5: been enshrined in domestic law in the nineteen eighty Refugee Act, 1623 01:37:36,720 --> 01:37:40,360 Speaker 5: and so refugees who are people outside of their country 1624 01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:43,960 Speaker 5: of origin fleeing persecution have the right to ask for 1625 01:37:44,200 --> 01:37:47,519 Speaker 5: protection at the US Mexico border, whether it's at a 1626 01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:50,679 Speaker 5: port of entry or between ports of entry. So those 1627 01:37:50,760 --> 01:37:53,519 Speaker 5: in Hakumba and these other open air detention sites are 1628 01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:56,840 Speaker 5: those crossing between ports of entry because it's been made 1629 01:37:56,920 --> 01:38:00,320 Speaker 5: impossible to approach the port of entry and seek US island. 1630 01:38:00,360 --> 01:38:03,439 Speaker 5: And this is something that our organization has been litigating 1631 01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:06,320 Speaker 5: for years. You know, at first people were just being 1632 01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:09,479 Speaker 5: turned away. Then there was a waiting list in Mexico, 1633 01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:11,920 Speaker 5: and now they have this stupid app that's just like 1634 01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:15,160 Speaker 5: glitches and there's no enough appointments and people have to 1635 01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:18,639 Speaker 5: wait for months in Mexico just to get an appointment 1636 01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:20,720 Speaker 5: if they're one of the lucky ones who can. The 1637 01:38:20,840 --> 01:38:24,519 Speaker 5: app's also been hacked by organized crime. You know, certain 1638 01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:27,760 Speaker 5: nationalities are able to pay for appointments. It's just it's 1639 01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:30,479 Speaker 5: a complete mess. It has nothing to do with this ideal. 1640 01:38:31,240 --> 01:38:35,040 Speaker 5: You know that the Refugee conventionment is supposed to enshrine. 1641 01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:34,840 Speaker 4: So. 1642 01:38:36,600 --> 01:38:38,920 Speaker 5: Regardless of you know, all of the illegal things the 1643 01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:42,840 Speaker 5: US government is doing, like you cannot close a border 1644 01:38:43,840 --> 01:38:47,160 Speaker 5: to assylum seekers without withdrawing from the Refugee Convention. And 1645 01:38:47,240 --> 01:38:50,200 Speaker 5: I just really don't see that happening for our country, 1646 01:38:50,439 --> 01:38:53,000 Speaker 5: just because we like to, you know, talk about how 1647 01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:55,840 Speaker 5: we're abastioned for human rights et cetera, which you know, 1648 01:38:56,000 --> 01:38:58,840 Speaker 5: that's a whole other podcast I think about. 1649 01:39:00,200 --> 01:39:02,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, break that down a little bit. But I think 1650 01:39:03,160 --> 01:39:05,040 Speaker 1: one thing that you said that I want to talk 1651 01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:08,439 Speaker 1: about is that you said that open borders or like 1652 01:39:08,800 --> 01:39:11,040 Speaker 1: free travel for brown people is something that a lot 1653 01:39:11,120 --> 01:39:14,559 Speaker 1: of more privileged folks, especially in San Diego or even 1654 01:39:14,600 --> 01:39:16,439 Speaker 1: in San Diego, should say, are uncomfortable with. 1655 01:39:17,040 --> 01:39:18,640 Speaker 2: I think we really saw, like. 1656 01:39:20,439 --> 01:39:23,600 Speaker 1: It's not just skin color, but it's really hard for 1657 01:39:23,760 --> 01:39:26,840 Speaker 1: me to see skin color not playing a large role 1658 01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:31,799 Speaker 1: when I see people from Africa, people from South America 1659 01:39:32,320 --> 01:39:34,800 Speaker 1: waiting for months, if not years, and then people from 1660 01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:38,679 Speaker 1: Ukraine coming when the largest scale conflict in Ukraine began 1661 01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:41,519 Speaker 1: and effectively skipping the line. Right. 1662 01:39:42,400 --> 01:39:46,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, So when the Ukrainians all came through Tijuana, I 1663 01:39:46,360 --> 01:39:49,400 Speaker 5: think there were maybe twenty thousand or so who came 1664 01:39:49,479 --> 01:39:52,719 Speaker 5: through in a period of a month. That was during 1665 01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:57,240 Speaker 5: Title forty two, which was a Trump ara policy that 1666 01:39:57,520 --> 01:40:03,120 Speaker 5: closed the border to asylum seekers based on public health reasons, 1667 01:40:03,240 --> 01:40:05,120 Speaker 5: but really it was because they wanted to close the 1668 01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:09,679 Speaker 5: border to asylum seekers, and so there were very few 1669 01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:14,040 Speaker 5: humanitarian exemptions granted to Title forty two at that time. 1670 01:40:14,479 --> 01:40:17,639 Speaker 5: But at the time the Ukrainians came, that exemption process 1671 01:40:17,760 --> 01:40:20,240 Speaker 5: had actually been shut down for quite a while. So 1672 01:40:20,680 --> 01:40:25,040 Speaker 5: I was watching people die in Tijuana because they didn't 1673 01:40:25,080 --> 01:40:29,040 Speaker 5: have access to the US asylum system. I remember when 1674 01:40:29,080 --> 01:40:31,559 Speaker 5: the Ukrainians came, there was a child who caught an 1675 01:40:31,560 --> 01:40:33,439 Speaker 5: ammonia in one of the shelters. It was like a 1676 01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:37,120 Speaker 5: month's old baby who died. And then when the Ukrainians came, 1677 01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:41,400 Speaker 5: you know, the doors were flung open for them. CBP, 1678 01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:43,880 Speaker 5: which up until that point said they did not have 1679 01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:48,240 Speaker 5: capacity to process asylum seekers. They were processing Ukrainians at 1680 01:40:48,280 --> 01:40:50,680 Speaker 5: a clip of one thousand a day, and it was 1681 01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:54,960 Speaker 5: heartbreaking to see. And you know, after they shut off 1682 01:40:55,040 --> 01:40:58,800 Speaker 5: the spicket for the Ukrainians, after they stopped letting them 1683 01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:01,879 Speaker 5: in at the border, CBP said they only had capacity 1684 01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:06,400 Speaker 5: to process a few dozen non white asylum seekers, and 1685 01:41:06,520 --> 01:41:08,519 Speaker 5: so all of a sudden, their capacity was just gone. 1686 01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:11,440 Speaker 5: It was, you know, it just it was so transparent 1687 01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:13,960 Speaker 5: and so blatant and so hurtful for people who've been 1688 01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:17,120 Speaker 5: suffering at that point for years with the silent system 1689 01:41:17,160 --> 01:41:17,920 Speaker 5: closed off to them. 1690 01:41:18,760 --> 01:41:18,960 Speaker 6: Yeah. 1691 01:41:20,040 --> 01:41:22,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really hard to see that and to 1692 01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:26,800 Speaker 1: know the people, the people who I guess effectively they 1693 01:41:27,160 --> 01:41:28,880 Speaker 1: lost their place in line, right, a lot of people 1694 01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:32,439 Speaker 1: cut in front of them, And to a large degree, 1695 01:41:32,600 --> 01:41:36,000 Speaker 1: it's still much easier. Right, we're under title eight again 1696 01:41:36,040 --> 01:41:39,320 Speaker 1: now not Title forty two. But it's still much easier 1697 01:41:39,360 --> 01:41:42,920 Speaker 1: for wealthy white people to get appointments using CBP one 1698 01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:46,040 Speaker 1: than it is for poor and non white people, right. 1699 01:41:46,840 --> 01:41:50,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, because especially when the app was first launched, there's 1700 01:41:51,120 --> 01:41:55,479 Speaker 5: a point in the appointment process during which you have 1701 01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:58,360 Speaker 5: to take a photo of yourself and it mass your 1702 01:41:58,439 --> 01:42:01,880 Speaker 5: face for facial recognition purposes, and it wasn't working on 1703 01:42:02,479 --> 01:42:05,640 Speaker 5: really dark skinned people. You know, a few of the 1704 01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:09,320 Speaker 5: organizations working in Mexico had to buy the construction style 1705 01:42:09,439 --> 01:42:12,439 Speaker 5: lights to shine on people's faces so that it would 1706 01:42:13,160 --> 01:42:15,800 Speaker 5: photo to pick them up. But just even like you 1707 01:42:15,920 --> 01:42:18,880 Speaker 5: have to have a new phone, I think they probably 1708 01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:21,439 Speaker 5: made the app to work on an iPhone, which most 1709 01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:23,280 Speaker 5: people outside the United States don't have. 1710 01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:27,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's like I've got a tip on that 1711 01:42:27,200 --> 01:42:29,320 Speaker 1: I've not been able to confirm it, but someone at 1712 01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:31,800 Speaker 1: the Ice Store told the Ice Store the Apple Store 1713 01:42:32,040 --> 01:42:35,400 Speaker 1: told me that it wasn't working on certain Samsung and 1714 01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:38,640 Speaker 1: Huawei phones and that they were having people come in 1715 01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:41,439 Speaker 1: and buy like the cheapest iPhone they could in bulk 1716 01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:42,400 Speaker 1: to try and access it. 1717 01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:45,839 Speaker 5: Well, we keep iPhones in our office in Tikwana exactly 1718 01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:48,720 Speaker 5: for that reason, because you know, people need to be 1719 01:42:48,800 --> 01:42:53,160 Speaker 5: able to access the app. But now the well, the 1720 01:42:53,240 --> 01:42:56,640 Speaker 5: app has been hacked for a while. So there's some 1721 01:42:56,880 --> 01:43:00,799 Speaker 5: groups that work mostly I would say with Russian asylum seekers. 1722 01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:04,760 Speaker 5: They're charging I think around between five hundred and one 1723 01:43:04,760 --> 01:43:08,599 Speaker 5: thousand for an appointment, maybe more sometimes I'm not sure 1724 01:43:08,640 --> 01:43:11,200 Speaker 5: exactly how they're doing it. I know also there's been 1725 01:43:11,320 --> 01:43:15,679 Speaker 5: some hacking of the geolocation features, so these criminal groups 1726 01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:17,920 Speaker 5: are selling appointments to people who haven't even left their 1727 01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:21,200 Speaker 5: home country. And meanwhile, you know, the shelters on the 1728 01:43:21,240 --> 01:43:25,120 Speaker 5: border are full of people with crappy phones and a 1729 01:43:25,160 --> 01:43:28,120 Speaker 5: week internet connection who wait for months and months and months, 1730 01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:32,040 Speaker 5: while the richer people who are paying for nice phones 1731 01:43:32,080 --> 01:43:34,599 Speaker 5: and appointments are able to get through much more quickly. 1732 01:43:35,320 --> 01:43:39,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's made of a fucked up system. Even more 1733 01:43:39,120 --> 01:43:42,840 Speaker 1: fucked up they designed it in house as well, which 1734 01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:46,800 Speaker 1: you know they are paid to have over estimated their 1735 01:43:46,840 --> 01:43:49,800 Speaker 1: abilities there. One day, I'll get my foyers back about 1736 01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:52,360 Speaker 1: cepp one and it will probably be some point in 1737 01:43:52,400 --> 01:43:55,320 Speaker 1: the middle of the next presidential administration, which will make 1738 01:43:55,400 --> 01:43:57,679 Speaker 1: them fey relevant and really freaking annoying. 1739 01:43:57,760 --> 01:44:01,360 Speaker 5: But well, we're suing about it, so it'll probably be 1740 01:44:01,439 --> 01:44:03,120 Speaker 5: a few years before we get to discovery. 1741 01:44:03,240 --> 01:44:05,599 Speaker 1: But yeah, we'll have a race. 1742 01:44:07,120 --> 01:44:09,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, but you are assuming that they want the system 1743 01:44:09,360 --> 01:44:10,280 Speaker 5: to work, which they don't. 1744 01:44:10,360 --> 01:44:11,679 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, that's fair. 1745 01:44:12,439 --> 01:44:15,360 Speaker 5: So in that sense, it's working perfectly. 1746 01:44:15,680 --> 01:44:18,519 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And it's doing in a sense what like 1747 01:44:18,880 --> 01:44:22,080 Speaker 1: the unofficial and of tone of immigration policy has always been, 1748 01:44:23,120 --> 01:44:25,439 Speaker 1: which is that like, it's fine for wealthy white people 1749 01:44:25,479 --> 01:44:27,439 Speaker 1: to come here, but we want to limit the number 1750 01:44:27,479 --> 01:44:29,519 Speaker 1: of non white and non wealthy people who come here. 1751 01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:32,400 Speaker 1: And like they can say out loud, like and maybe 1752 01:44:32,400 --> 01:44:35,639 Speaker 1: we should talk about this now. The difference between Trump 1753 01:44:35,640 --> 01:44:39,200 Speaker 1: and Biden is Trump just said it and Biden didn't. 1754 01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:42,519 Speaker 1: And when Trump said it, like wealth well meaning liberals 1755 01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:45,400 Speaker 1: in the Midwest gave a shit and sent money. Like 1756 01:44:45,479 --> 01:44:48,760 Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, things were very bad in Tijuana, right 1757 01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:54,040 Speaker 1: with the people staying in the Elberatal, but like at 1758 01:44:54,120 --> 01:44:56,640 Speaker 1: least people in America cared and sent money so we 1759 01:44:56,680 --> 01:45:01,280 Speaker 1: could help. Whereas now, like you know, major outlets who 1760 01:45:01,320 --> 01:45:04,639 Speaker 1: have given ten front page stories to accusations of one 1761 01:45:04,720 --> 01:45:07,479 Speaker 1: woman plagiarizing and a dissertation that she wrote years ago, 1762 01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:10,799 Speaker 1: haven't written a single piece about the open air concentration 1763 01:45:10,920 --> 01:45:13,320 Speaker 1: camps that our government has in the Cumber in other places. 1764 01:45:14,320 --> 01:45:18,200 Speaker 5: Well, not just that, I mean the media by and 1765 01:45:18,320 --> 01:45:21,599 Speaker 5: large has allowed this right wing narrative of open borders 1766 01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:26,520 Speaker 5: to take over, even though the policies are largely identical 1767 01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:31,360 Speaker 5: to the Trump administration. Right so they're even talking about 1768 01:45:31,439 --> 01:45:35,000 Speaker 5: now bringing back a Title forty two type restriction that 1769 01:45:35,040 --> 01:45:37,839 Speaker 5: would turn away asylum seekers and send them back to Mexico. 1770 01:45:38,040 --> 01:45:41,360 Speaker 5: We have the asylum ban, which is very similar to 1771 01:45:41,479 --> 01:45:44,240 Speaker 5: the one that was litigated under the Trump administration. I mean, 1772 01:45:44,320 --> 01:45:47,960 Speaker 5: it's just, you know, family separation. Maybe it's not the 1773 01:45:48,040 --> 01:45:50,799 Speaker 5: minor children being taken away, but still thousands of families 1774 01:45:50,840 --> 01:45:54,320 Speaker 5: being separated. I think there's a couple things like one 1775 01:45:55,160 --> 01:45:58,280 Speaker 5: is just people hate when Trump does it, but they 1776 01:45:58,360 --> 01:46:01,800 Speaker 5: don't hate when Biden does it. It's one, yeah, but also, 1777 01:46:03,280 --> 01:46:06,160 Speaker 5: like you said, Trump says the quiet part out loud 1778 01:46:06,439 --> 01:46:12,040 Speaker 5: and so people respond to that. Whereas Biden has co 1779 01:46:12,240 --> 01:46:15,960 Speaker 5: opted the immigrant rights movement by putting us in a 1780 01:46:16,040 --> 01:46:18,920 Speaker 5: stakeholder relationship. And I can see amongst some of my 1781 01:46:19,040 --> 01:46:21,920 Speaker 5: colleagues that they value access to power more than the 1782 01:46:22,040 --> 01:46:24,800 Speaker 5: rights of the people that we are supposed to serve, 1783 01:46:25,520 --> 01:46:28,000 Speaker 5: and so they will go along with a lot of 1784 01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:31,800 Speaker 5: this stuff and you know, basically enable it in many 1785 01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:35,200 Speaker 5: ways just to maintain that access to power. And I've 1786 01:46:35,240 --> 01:46:38,240 Speaker 5: seen some of my colleagues who you know, we were 1787 01:46:38,240 --> 01:46:40,440 Speaker 5: all finding on the same side during the Trump administration 1788 01:46:40,560 --> 01:46:43,400 Speaker 5: have actually gone into the Biden administration that are implementing 1789 01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:48,479 Speaker 5: these policies, and so it's you know, it's it's really 1790 01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:53,320 Speaker 5: like pretty horrifying to see. And also I would say 1791 01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:56,439 Speaker 5: that people in the Biden administration are in many ways 1792 01:46:56,479 --> 01:47:00,000 Speaker 5: smarter because it was easier to litigate under the Trump admission, 1793 01:47:00,320 --> 01:47:02,280 Speaker 5: we could knock down a lot of these policies because 1794 01:47:02,280 --> 01:47:07,120 Speaker 5: they were just dumb, not well written. You know, it's 1795 01:47:07,160 --> 01:47:11,040 Speaker 5: like clearly unconstitutional. You know, they learned lessons during the 1796 01:47:11,080 --> 01:47:14,799 Speaker 5: monuments or during the Trump administration, so now the policies 1797 01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:16,680 Speaker 5: are written in a way that are that make it 1798 01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:20,760 Speaker 5: much more difficult to litigate. And the Supreme Court in 1799 01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:24,680 Speaker 5: twenty twenty two, in a decision called Ale Mang Gonzalez 1800 01:47:24,920 --> 01:47:28,160 Speaker 5: made it impossible to get class wide injunctive relief for 1801 01:47:28,320 --> 01:47:31,080 Speaker 5: violations of immigration law. So what that means is that 1802 01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:35,240 Speaker 5: dhs can violate the law and there's no way to 1803 01:47:35,320 --> 01:47:37,680 Speaker 5: stop them from doing so on a large scale in 1804 01:47:37,760 --> 01:47:40,800 Speaker 5: the courts, and they are banking on that when in 1805 01:47:40,920 --> 01:47:44,320 Speaker 5: current litigation, they literally are relying on that to continue 1806 01:47:44,360 --> 01:47:46,479 Speaker 5: breaking the law, especially when it comes to turning asylum 1807 01:47:46,479 --> 01:47:47,080 Speaker 5: seekers away. 1808 01:47:47,960 --> 01:47:50,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and something else that Testament has asked for is 1809 01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:54,240 Speaker 1: he wants them to turn asylum seekers away before they 1810 01:47:54,280 --> 01:47:56,840 Speaker 1: get to the border and then quite understand what they 1811 01:47:57,800 --> 01:47:59,920 Speaker 1: like that would be inside Mexico. 1812 01:47:59,680 --> 01:48:02,479 Speaker 5: Which well, that's what Mexico is doing right now. 1813 01:48:02,720 --> 01:48:07,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, they're like I was in Coocomber, like 1814 01:48:08,160 --> 01:48:11,479 Speaker 1: on Friday Thursday, and they get National Guard or like 1815 01:48:11,560 --> 01:48:13,040 Speaker 1: sitting at the little gaps in the wall. 1816 01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:17,080 Speaker 5: I mean you've seen it too. You see National Guard, 1817 01:48:17,160 --> 01:48:20,120 Speaker 5: Mexican National Guard drive up, they kind of check out 1818 01:48:20,160 --> 01:48:22,960 Speaker 5: the situation and leave, and then the travel agents come 1819 01:48:23,040 --> 01:48:26,840 Speaker 5: and drop off the migrants. And so it's something very 1820 01:48:26,920 --> 01:48:30,559 Speaker 5: much that can be controlled to a great extent within Mexico, 1821 01:48:30,920 --> 01:48:36,800 Speaker 5: and the US is very obviously, you know, working with 1822 01:48:36,960 --> 01:48:41,439 Speaker 5: Mexico publicly obviously working with Mexico to stop migrants from 1823 01:48:41,720 --> 01:48:44,800 Speaker 5: reaching the US Mexico border, and working with countries further 1824 01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:48,519 Speaker 5: south to stop people from reaching the US Mexico border. 1825 01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:51,679 Speaker 5: So this is definitely a regional project. 1826 01:48:52,280 --> 01:48:54,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, one thing I want to talk about is as 1827 01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:58,960 Speaker 1: people come through those countries further south, and there's this 1828 01:49:00,200 --> 01:49:03,040 Speaker 1: like in recent days, even like we're recording this on 1829 01:49:03,880 --> 01:49:07,080 Speaker 1: on Monday, people hear it on Wednesday. But I've seen 1830 01:49:07,160 --> 01:49:09,920 Speaker 1: this narrative and I think it's coming from the fact 1831 01:49:10,160 --> 01:49:13,880 Speaker 1: that funding for Ukraine was tied to funding for the border, 1832 01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:18,439 Speaker 1: and people have lost their minds over the conflict in 1833 01:49:18,560 --> 01:49:22,280 Speaker 1: Ukraine and and and they have silly dog pictures on Twitter, 1834 01:49:22,479 --> 01:49:27,120 Speaker 1: and and it'd become a replacement for a personality for 1835 01:49:27,200 --> 01:49:33,519 Speaker 1: a certain type of divorce guy. Like so like that, Yeah, 1836 01:49:33,560 --> 01:49:37,880 Speaker 1: the army of divorced dads has like turned on the border. 1837 01:49:38,439 --> 01:49:40,240 Speaker 1: And like one of the things you'll say is like, oh, 1838 01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:43,040 Speaker 1: like the border is like a like like this is 1839 01:49:43,120 --> 01:49:45,519 Speaker 1: how bad actors are getting in the US, you know, 1840 01:49:45,640 --> 01:49:50,519 Speaker 1: like you know, har Mass again, like the Hamas are 1841 01:49:50,560 --> 01:49:56,200 Speaker 1: really otherwise engaged in the minute. But like yeah, yeah, 1842 01:49:56,320 --> 01:49:58,280 Speaker 1: like there's a whole lot of people who would love 1843 01:49:58,320 --> 01:50:01,320 Speaker 1: to leave Gaza and and we absolutely should welcome those 1844 01:50:01,320 --> 01:50:06,360 Speaker 1: people here, but they can't and that's fucked up. But yeah, 1845 01:50:06,400 --> 01:50:13,760 Speaker 1: this idea that like isis hamas the Russian secret of 1846 01:50:13,760 --> 01:50:18,880 Speaker 1: the Russian FSB. I'm sure someone will have suggested, like 1847 01:50:18,960 --> 01:50:21,960 Speaker 1: North Korea or the PC are coming through Haucumber as well, 1848 01:50:22,479 --> 01:50:26,400 Speaker 1: like they seem it seems to admit, admit what happens 1849 01:50:26,439 --> 01:50:30,519 Speaker 1: to people entering Mexico and indeed other countries further south, right, Like, 1850 01:50:30,640 --> 01:50:34,280 Speaker 1: can you explain how people think the thing that the 1851 01:50:34,400 --> 01:50:37,760 Speaker 1: US is the only state with a capacity for surveillance, 1852 01:50:37,840 --> 01:50:41,040 Speaker 1: which is manifestly untrue? Can you explain how people are 1853 01:50:41,120 --> 01:50:46,360 Speaker 1: like surveiled and like make legible on their way north? 1854 01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:53,360 Speaker 5: There are multiple multilateral and bilateral information sharing agreements that 1855 01:50:53,800 --> 01:51:01,040 Speaker 5: connect to criminal and quote unquote intelligence databases. So when 1856 01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:05,760 Speaker 5: you are traveling internationally, you are subject to a web 1857 01:51:05,840 --> 01:51:10,120 Speaker 5: of surveillance that is, you know, in many ways connected 1858 01:51:10,200 --> 01:51:14,240 Speaker 5: to the United States. So the US government those you're coming, 1859 01:51:14,439 --> 01:51:17,240 Speaker 5: like you know, when you are countries away just by 1860 01:51:17,320 --> 01:51:21,120 Speaker 5: virtual using a passport. But then for people who are 1861 01:51:21,280 --> 01:51:26,080 Speaker 5: traveling through a regular means, there's also a web of 1862 01:51:26,360 --> 01:51:29,240 Speaker 5: biometric collection stations that have been set up by the 1863 01:51:29,280 --> 01:51:34,160 Speaker 5: Department of Homeland Security, most notably north of the Darien Gap, 1864 01:51:34,360 --> 01:51:39,040 Speaker 5: and so extra continental migrants, those from outside of the Americas, 1865 01:51:39,160 --> 01:51:42,080 Speaker 5: as well as some Venezuelans and a few other nationalities, 1866 01:51:42,640 --> 01:51:48,160 Speaker 5: have their fingerprints taken Irish scans pictures taking for facial recognition, 1867 01:51:49,040 --> 01:51:51,639 Speaker 5: and that is entered into a database that is shared 1868 01:51:51,680 --> 01:51:57,280 Speaker 5: directly with the US government. There's several other bilateral information 1869 01:51:57,720 --> 01:52:02,639 Speaker 5: sharing agreements that are focused particularly on biometrics, with several 1870 01:52:02,680 --> 01:52:07,000 Speaker 5: Central American countries and with Mexico obviously, and Mexico has 1871 01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:11,519 Speaker 5: just insane enforcement in southern Mexico. If you've ever tried 1872 01:52:11,560 --> 01:52:15,280 Speaker 5: to travel over land from top of Toula in Mexico City, 1873 01:52:15,400 --> 01:52:19,559 Speaker 5: you will go through numerous checkpoints where you know your 1874 01:52:19,640 --> 01:52:22,160 Speaker 5: information is taken. You know, a lot of times you're 1875 01:52:22,200 --> 01:52:25,240 Speaker 5: just paying a bribe to keep going. But it's something 1876 01:52:25,320 --> 01:52:28,760 Speaker 5: where you know they know who's coming. That's why you 1877 01:52:28,840 --> 01:52:31,120 Speaker 5: hear all the time in the media like this, many 1878 01:52:31,160 --> 01:52:33,000 Speaker 5: people are coming through the dairy and Gap. How do 1879 01:52:33,080 --> 01:52:35,519 Speaker 5: they know that, Well, they have these biometric you know, 1880 01:52:35,680 --> 01:52:39,600 Speaker 5: information collection stations. But I think just more broadly, like 1881 01:52:40,040 --> 01:52:43,920 Speaker 5: coming through the southern border as a refugee or just 1882 01:52:44,040 --> 01:52:47,360 Speaker 5: as a migrant is probably the stupidest way to come 1883 01:52:47,400 --> 01:52:50,400 Speaker 5: into the United States if you are trying to, you know, 1884 01:52:50,560 --> 01:52:55,320 Speaker 5: do a terrorist attack. Because like border patrol, despite what 1885 01:52:55,400 --> 01:52:57,720 Speaker 5: they like to say, they are not overwhelmed. You know, 1886 01:52:57,800 --> 01:53:00,960 Speaker 5: if you divide the number of coming over by the 1887 01:53:01,040 --> 01:53:04,880 Speaker 5: number of agents, it's far less than one migrant per 1888 01:53:04,960 --> 01:53:07,840 Speaker 5: agent per day, So they have a pretty good lock 1889 01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:09,639 Speaker 5: on the border. There's not a lot of people getting 1890 01:53:09,640 --> 01:53:12,880 Speaker 5: through undetected. Those who turn themselves in, which is the 1891 01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:17,560 Speaker 5: vast majority of people, they are subject to all of 1892 01:53:17,640 --> 01:53:20,920 Speaker 5: the same surveillance and security checks I just mentioned. They 1893 01:53:20,960 --> 01:53:24,240 Speaker 5: get their DNA sample taken at the border, they give 1894 01:53:24,320 --> 01:53:26,840 Speaker 5: all of their information, and then they are not let 1895 01:53:26,880 --> 01:53:30,519 Speaker 5: out of custody if they trigger any kind of security flag, 1896 01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:32,920 Speaker 5: and it can just be like they're from Yemen, they're 1897 01:53:32,920 --> 01:53:33,720 Speaker 5: from Afghanistan. 1898 01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:35,600 Speaker 3: Sometimes they're just detained because of that. 1899 01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:38,879 Speaker 5: But any of those if any of those checks are triggered, 1900 01:53:39,000 --> 01:53:41,439 Speaker 5: they're detained for the duration of proceedings. They never see 1901 01:53:41,479 --> 01:53:45,559 Speaker 5: that outside of a prison. So this idea that terrorists 1902 01:53:45,600 --> 01:53:48,360 Speaker 5: are sneaking over the border is frankly stupid. I think, 1903 01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:50,240 Speaker 5: you know, if we think back to nine to eleven. 1904 01:53:50,400 --> 01:53:51,759 Speaker 5: I think they all came on visas. 1905 01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:53,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and like. 1906 01:53:55,240 --> 01:53:57,599 Speaker 1: The system makes it so much easier for someone who 1907 01:53:57,760 --> 01:54:02,120 Speaker 1: is wealthy and white and otherwise privileged to come to 1908 01:54:02,200 --> 01:54:05,560 Speaker 1: this country that like it's ridiculous to think that a 1909 01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:08,679 Speaker 1: state actor like Russia wouldn't take advantage of that, rather 1910 01:54:08,800 --> 01:54:11,960 Speaker 1: than yeah, yeah, attempting to walk someone through the border 1911 01:54:12,000 --> 01:54:14,920 Speaker 1: where they're about to like encounter some of the most 1912 01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:18,519 Speaker 1: intense state surveillance that can happen to a person, and. 1913 01:54:18,640 --> 01:54:21,960 Speaker 5: You start off in a prison, So like, why would 1914 01:54:22,040 --> 01:54:25,160 Speaker 5: you do that? You may never believe it any sense. Yeah, 1915 01:54:25,360 --> 01:54:27,439 Speaker 5: it doesn't make any sense. I'm sure there's like, you know, 1916 01:54:27,760 --> 01:54:31,920 Speaker 5: some people who have ties to foreign intelligence. Sure, I 1917 01:54:32,000 --> 01:54:35,160 Speaker 5: mean it could happen, but it's like, so the number 1918 01:54:35,280 --> 01:54:38,000 Speaker 5: is so vanangially small. And I think another important thing 1919 01:54:38,080 --> 01:54:42,200 Speaker 5: to note is when people are processed, they have an 1920 01:54:42,240 --> 01:54:45,360 Speaker 5: obligation to attend an immigration court hearing. And when I 1921 01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:49,520 Speaker 5: looked at the statistics for Russian asylum seekers in particular, 1922 01:54:49,560 --> 01:54:51,400 Speaker 5: because I've seen a lot of this rhetoric of like 1923 01:54:51,800 --> 01:54:55,480 Speaker 5: Russia sending spies over the border, So ninety eight point 1924 01:54:55,560 --> 01:54:58,360 Speaker 5: five percent of them show up to their immigration court hearings. 1925 01:54:58,680 --> 01:55:00,720 Speaker 5: Are you going to do that if you're you're gonna 1926 01:55:00,880 --> 01:55:05,040 Speaker 5: subject yourself to another round of security checks and you know, 1927 01:55:05,160 --> 01:55:08,520 Speaker 5: spill your entire asylum story, subject yourself to cross examination. 1928 01:55:08,720 --> 01:55:11,040 Speaker 5: No you're not. Yeah, I don't know. 1929 01:55:11,600 --> 01:55:15,000 Speaker 1: People have watched that film, the TV series The Americans 1930 01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:19,640 Speaker 1: a little too much losing their minds. Okay, So I think, yeah, 1931 01:55:19,920 --> 01:55:22,480 Speaker 1: it's really important to also point out, like when we're 1932 01:55:22,520 --> 01:55:26,440 Speaker 1: talking about the potential for bad actors. So yeah, like sure, 1933 01:55:26,520 --> 01:55:28,760 Speaker 1: maybe there's someone who's come who's done something bad, or 1934 01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:30,560 Speaker 1: maybe there's someone who comes who will do something bad. 1935 01:55:31,120 --> 01:55:34,320 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that everyone else who came is in 1936 01:55:34,400 --> 01:55:37,480 Speaker 1: any way complicit in that, Like we haven't given them 1937 01:55:37,520 --> 01:55:39,880 Speaker 1: another way to come here. It's not like they had 1938 01:55:39,960 --> 01:55:42,040 Speaker 1: to take the bad guy route because they chose to. 1939 01:55:43,080 --> 01:55:46,280 Speaker 1: Like you, no one would be picking up their children 1940 01:55:46,680 --> 01:55:50,520 Speaker 1: and walking across the desert and then spending sometimes up 1941 01:55:50,600 --> 01:55:53,000 Speaker 1: to a week in camps which are currently below freezing 1942 01:55:53,080 --> 01:55:56,040 Speaker 1: at night, sometimes with you know, like a blanket or 1943 01:55:56,800 --> 01:55:59,960 Speaker 1: like a tent, or maybe it woulden't shelter with their luck. 1944 01:56:01,280 --> 01:56:02,720 Speaker 1: No one will be doing that if there was an 1945 01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:06,560 Speaker 1: easier option and it's ludicristic like claim that these people's 1946 01:56:06,960 --> 01:56:09,960 Speaker 1: asylum claims or the fact that they should be welcome 1947 01:56:10,000 --> 01:56:11,960 Speaker 1: here is in any way impacted by the actions of 1948 01:56:12,000 --> 01:56:13,680 Speaker 1: somebody else who might have taken the same. 1949 01:56:15,120 --> 01:56:15,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1950 01:56:15,520 --> 01:56:18,920 Speaker 5: I mean the other thing too, is just because the 1951 01:56:19,000 --> 01:56:24,000 Speaker 5: border is still closed off by policies that restrict access 1952 01:56:24,120 --> 01:56:28,200 Speaker 5: to asylum, it has super charged the strength of criminal 1953 01:56:28,280 --> 01:56:31,400 Speaker 5: groups that bring people to the border. And I will 1954 01:56:31,520 --> 01:56:34,040 Speaker 5: say that they are spreading a lot of misinformation. 1955 01:56:34,240 --> 01:56:35,120 Speaker 3: You know, they use this. 1956 01:56:35,400 --> 01:56:38,800 Speaker 5: Reporting from the right wing calling the border open to 1957 01:56:39,200 --> 01:56:42,320 Speaker 5: advertise their services, and they might very well tell people 1958 01:56:42,360 --> 01:56:44,800 Speaker 5: that it's a lot easier than it actually is, and 1959 01:56:44,920 --> 01:56:47,760 Speaker 5: that they have an easier chance to get asylum than 1960 01:56:47,760 --> 01:56:50,560 Speaker 5: they actually do. I mean, I don't discount the power 1961 01:56:50,640 --> 01:56:53,720 Speaker 5: of misinformation, but those I have seen over the past 1962 01:56:54,480 --> 01:56:58,480 Speaker 5: six seven years, especially since the Trump administration really tried 1963 01:56:58,480 --> 01:57:01,640 Speaker 5: to close off access to asylum, I've seen those groups 1964 01:57:01,680 --> 01:57:04,400 Speaker 5: grow in power. I've seen the price that people pay 1965 01:57:04,560 --> 01:57:08,600 Speaker 5: to cross the border grow both financially and just in 1966 01:57:08,680 --> 01:57:11,120 Speaker 5: the amount of suffering that they have to endure. So 1967 01:57:11,560 --> 01:57:15,800 Speaker 5: when we talk about border security and national security, I 1968 01:57:15,880 --> 01:57:18,960 Speaker 5: would argue that border restrictions actually make us much less 1969 01:57:19,000 --> 01:57:23,200 Speaker 5: safe because you know, criminal groups now completely control the border, 1970 01:57:23,240 --> 01:57:26,720 Speaker 5: whereas you know, a decade ago, even a person who 1971 01:57:26,880 --> 01:57:29,400 Speaker 5: just wanted to cross the border on their own could 1972 01:57:29,400 --> 01:57:31,680 Speaker 5: do so, you know, if they knew the way, they 1973 01:57:31,760 --> 01:57:33,600 Speaker 5: could just try to cross. And now if you try 1974 01:57:33,640 --> 01:57:35,840 Speaker 5: to do that without paying the criminal groups who really 1975 01:57:35,920 --> 01:57:37,160 Speaker 5: control it, you will get be killed. 1976 01:57:37,520 --> 01:57:41,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's happened multiple times in the last few months. 1977 01:57:41,680 --> 01:57:45,240 Speaker 1: We'll talk of misleading advertising planes. We have to to 1978 01:57:45,240 --> 01:57:47,120 Speaker 1: take short break to hear home with them, and we'll 1979 01:57:47,120 --> 01:57:59,440 Speaker 1: be back in a moment. Okay, we're back. And one 1980 01:57:59,520 --> 01:58:01,800 Speaker 1: thing that I want to talk about that we haven't 1981 01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:07,120 Speaker 1: got too yet is that, like the the failed government 1982 01:58:07,200 --> 01:58:11,280 Speaker 1: response isn't just federal or well, it's both federal and local. 1983 01:58:11,360 --> 01:58:13,240 Speaker 1: But I wanted to talk a little bit about this. 1984 01:58:13,840 --> 01:58:17,000 Speaker 1: That the federal funding that San Diego County got, that 1985 01:58:17,320 --> 01:58:24,640 Speaker 1: it reallocated towards a quote unquote welcome center. Right, So, yeah, 1986 01:58:24,680 --> 01:58:26,800 Speaker 1: we're both very familiar with the welcome center it got. 1987 01:58:27,120 --> 01:58:30,280 Speaker 1: It got three million dollars initially and then got it 1988 01:58:30,360 --> 01:58:34,080 Speaker 1: got three million more because apparently none of us are 1989 01:58:34,160 --> 01:58:37,480 Speaker 1: doing anything useful anywhere else and don't merit any help, 1990 01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:40,000 Speaker 1: and do you want to talk first of all about 1991 01:58:40,080 --> 01:58:44,040 Speaker 1: just like what the conditions are like. You've just come 1992 01:58:44,200 --> 01:58:46,880 Speaker 1: out of being detained in the desert for maybe up 1993 01:58:46,920 --> 01:58:50,360 Speaker 1: to a week. It's cold, We feed you, but like 1994 01:58:50,680 --> 01:58:52,720 Speaker 1: we wish we could feed you more and better. You 1995 01:58:53,000 --> 01:58:55,320 Speaker 1: don't have a change of clothes. Right, then you've been detained. 1996 01:58:55,600 --> 01:58:57,880 Speaker 1: You could have been detained for one night, two nights, 1997 01:58:57,920 --> 01:59:00,440 Speaker 1: severne more nights, and then you hit this well consenter. 1998 01:59:00,560 --> 01:59:03,840 Speaker 1: So can you, like, I can think how we would 1999 01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:05,800 Speaker 1: like to treat people who have just been through all that, 2000 01:59:05,960 --> 01:59:08,240 Speaker 1: But can you explain to us how people are treated 2001 01:59:08,280 --> 01:59:09,840 Speaker 1: when they when they arrive at a welcome center. 2002 01:59:10,760 --> 01:59:14,680 Speaker 5: Well, it's they're not arriving there. They're picked up from 2003 01:59:14,840 --> 01:59:19,440 Speaker 5: detention by the nonprofit that's administering the welcome center in 2004 01:59:19,800 --> 01:59:23,280 Speaker 5: what look like prison buses, right, I mean it's I 2005 01:59:23,400 --> 01:59:26,440 Speaker 5: can't I can't imagine that someone getting on one of 2006 01:59:26,480 --> 01:59:30,200 Speaker 5: those buses understands that they're not just at another stage 2007 01:59:30,200 --> 01:59:33,600 Speaker 5: of detention. Right. So they get to this fenced in, 2008 01:59:34,400 --> 01:59:39,920 Speaker 5: abandoned school, they are lined up and they're forced to 2009 01:59:40,920 --> 01:59:46,680 Speaker 5: give all of their information to the nonprofit workers. They 2010 01:59:46,800 --> 01:59:50,440 Speaker 5: are you know, mostly not spent I think maybe like 2011 01:59:50,560 --> 01:59:53,400 Speaker 5: forty percent Spanish speakers. I'm sure the exact percentage, but 2012 01:59:53,680 --> 01:59:56,640 Speaker 5: if there's people from all over the world, there's no 2013 01:59:56,880 --> 02:00:00,040 Speaker 5: paid interpreters on site, and so you know they do. 2014 02:00:00,080 --> 02:00:02,080 Speaker 5: You have this little script that they read in the 2015 02:00:02,160 --> 02:00:04,680 Speaker 5: beginning saying like you're not detained, like this is a 2016 02:00:04,760 --> 02:00:08,680 Speaker 5: welcome center whatever, but they run it through Google Translate 2017 02:00:08,840 --> 02:00:13,560 Speaker 5: and then play the Google Translate like over the megaphone, 2018 02:00:13,640 --> 02:00:16,360 Speaker 5: which it's like, have you ever tried to like understand 2019 02:00:16,440 --> 02:00:19,120 Speaker 5: someone screaming something into a megaphone, never mind the fact 2020 02:00:19,160 --> 02:00:23,480 Speaker 5: that it's like Mandarin Google Translate. Like people, I guarantee 2021 02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:26,000 Speaker 5: you they still think they're in prison. And so then 2022 02:00:26,040 --> 02:00:29,120 Speaker 5: they go they have to sometimes wait for hours in 2023 02:00:29,240 --> 02:00:33,080 Speaker 5: this intake line. Only then they're given a ticket to 2024 02:00:33,240 --> 02:00:36,280 Speaker 5: eat the like probably some of the worst food I've 2025 02:00:36,320 --> 02:00:39,360 Speaker 5: ever seen, Like, you know, people are not eating a 2026 02:00:39,400 --> 02:00:41,640 Speaker 5: lot when they're at the opening attention sites, and then 2027 02:00:41,680 --> 02:00:43,840 Speaker 5: they're really not eating a lot when they're in attention 2028 02:00:44,120 --> 02:00:46,720 Speaker 5: And I've seen people refuse the food there because it's 2029 02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:51,280 Speaker 5: that bad. And it's like they're standing in a line 2030 02:00:51,360 --> 02:00:54,480 Speaker 5: for hours, not having eat and probably not having slept, 2031 02:00:54,560 --> 02:00:57,320 Speaker 5: and god knows how long, yeah, you know, having this 2032 02:00:57,480 --> 02:01:01,839 Speaker 5: garbled message played to them over a megaphon own So anyway, 2033 02:01:02,000 --> 02:01:05,240 Speaker 5: they get through all that, and then they're told they 2034 02:01:05,320 --> 02:01:07,839 Speaker 5: have to make their own way, you know, to their sponsor, 2035 02:01:08,640 --> 02:01:11,880 Speaker 5: and those who don't have the money to do so 2036 02:01:12,760 --> 02:01:15,560 Speaker 5: are provided with I think it's up to maybe two 2037 02:01:15,680 --> 02:01:19,240 Speaker 5: or three days of shelter or a hotel room before 2038 02:01:19,400 --> 02:01:22,120 Speaker 5: they are shipped off to another part of the country. 2039 02:01:22,200 --> 02:01:24,400 Speaker 5: And so the goal of the welcome center is to 2040 02:01:24,560 --> 02:01:28,880 Speaker 5: get rid of the migrants, to get them elsewhere. So, 2041 02:01:29,240 --> 02:01:32,520 Speaker 5: you know, ninety five percent to ninety nine percent do 2042 02:01:32,720 --> 02:01:35,040 Speaker 5: have a place to go. They don't all have the 2043 02:01:35,120 --> 02:01:37,400 Speaker 5: means to get there, but most of them do, almost 2044 02:01:37,440 --> 02:01:40,760 Speaker 5: all have the means to get there. The other few, 2045 02:01:41,240 --> 02:01:43,520 Speaker 5: like the other you know, one to five percent, they 2046 02:01:43,600 --> 02:01:46,520 Speaker 5: need help. They need you know, maybe a place to 2047 02:01:46,560 --> 02:01:48,680 Speaker 5: stay for a couple of months, they need help getting 2048 02:01:48,680 --> 02:01:51,320 Speaker 5: a work permit. They might need help, you know, applying 2049 02:01:51,360 --> 02:01:55,000 Speaker 5: for asylum. But instead of investing in the resources that 2050 02:01:55,080 --> 02:01:57,160 Speaker 5: we need locally to help them, they're shipped off to 2051 02:01:58,000 --> 02:02:01,280 Speaker 5: New York, Chicago or other places is that have invested 2052 02:02:01,320 --> 02:02:05,080 Speaker 5: in those resources. And that's really the same thing Greg 2053 02:02:05,080 --> 02:02:07,400 Speaker 5: Abbott was doing from Texas. But you know, we're just 2054 02:02:07,480 --> 02:02:08,480 Speaker 5: putting a nicer. 2055 02:02:08,720 --> 02:02:12,200 Speaker 7: We call it a welcome sentence yah, yeah, somewhere better 2056 02:02:12,720 --> 02:02:17,080 Speaker 7: yeah yeah, and the Welcome Center, Like we could go 2057 02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:19,640 Speaker 7: deeper into its funding, but I think it's fair to 2058 02:02:19,680 --> 02:02:21,840 Speaker 7: say that, like it's for one thing, it's doing things 2059 02:02:21,880 --> 02:02:22,760 Speaker 7: that CBP. 2060 02:02:22,600 --> 02:02:26,600 Speaker 1: Should do right, like a transport specifically. 2061 02:02:26,880 --> 02:02:30,760 Speaker 5: Transport specifically, but also like this idea of doing an 2062 02:02:30,840 --> 02:02:33,240 Speaker 5: intake with every single person who comes through there is 2063 02:02:33,280 --> 02:02:37,040 Speaker 5: such a waste of money because it's like it's infantilizing. 2064 02:02:37,360 --> 02:02:39,480 Speaker 5: These people have traveled across the world. You think they 2065 02:02:39,520 --> 02:02:41,840 Speaker 5: can't get to the airport on their own. Yeah, you know, 2066 02:02:42,160 --> 02:02:45,400 Speaker 5: it doesn't focus resources on that, you know, one to 2067 02:02:45,480 --> 02:02:47,840 Speaker 5: five percent of people who really do need help. It 2068 02:02:48,120 --> 02:02:51,840 Speaker 5: wastes resources on people who really don't. They need Wi Fi, 2069 02:02:52,000 --> 02:02:55,280 Speaker 5: they need a phone charger, yeah, and maybe like a 2070 02:02:55,400 --> 02:02:57,880 Speaker 5: hard email. You know, they're getting the Wi Fi and 2071 02:02:57,920 --> 02:03:01,600 Speaker 5: the phone charger, which is not provided by the organization 2072 02:03:01,720 --> 02:03:04,040 Speaker 5: that receives six million dollars. It's provided by one of 2073 02:03:04,080 --> 02:03:07,880 Speaker 5: the few organizations, including my own, who are there providing 2074 02:03:07,920 --> 02:03:10,600 Speaker 5: services without county funding. Because we didn't want to be 2075 02:03:10,880 --> 02:03:12,600 Speaker 5: associated with this debacle. 2076 02:03:13,600 --> 02:03:13,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 2077 02:03:14,200 --> 02:03:16,680 Speaker 1: And another thing you do is family reunification there, right, 2078 02:03:16,760 --> 02:03:18,000 Speaker 1: you guys are helping take care of that. 2079 02:03:18,920 --> 02:03:19,120 Speaker 5: Yeah. 2080 02:03:19,800 --> 02:03:23,000 Speaker 1: Again, I think people aren't aware that families need to 2081 02:03:23,040 --> 02:03:25,880 Speaker 1: be reunified, but they're still very much separated when they're 2082 02:03:25,920 --> 02:03:26,360 Speaker 1: in detention. 2083 02:03:27,480 --> 02:03:31,240 Speaker 5: Well, they're separated at open air detention sites, they're separated 2084 02:03:31,480 --> 02:03:35,560 Speaker 5: in detention. We've documented since September. I think it's over 2085 02:03:35,600 --> 02:03:38,840 Speaker 5: eleven hundred families now that have been separated. Almost half 2086 02:03:38,880 --> 02:03:41,440 Speaker 5: of them are spousal separations, but a lot of times, 2087 02:03:41,560 --> 02:03:44,600 Speaker 5: when you know, wife and husband are separated, the kids 2088 02:03:44,640 --> 02:03:48,120 Speaker 5: are with one spouse or another, so you know, technically 2089 02:03:48,240 --> 02:03:51,280 Speaker 5: it's a separation of a child. We see a lot 2090 02:03:51,360 --> 02:03:54,360 Speaker 5: of separations of like eighteen year old children from the 2091 02:03:54,400 --> 02:03:57,120 Speaker 5: rest of their families where they're sent to detention facilities 2092 02:03:57,160 --> 02:04:00,720 Speaker 5: and the rest of the family's released. So all you know, 2093 02:04:00,880 --> 02:04:06,520 Speaker 5: grandma from grandkids or needs a nephew, siblings, separations. I mean, 2094 02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:10,360 Speaker 5: it's all traumatic, right, it's just not the particular brand 2095 02:04:10,400 --> 02:04:13,160 Speaker 5: of Trump separation that people seem to care. 2096 02:04:13,040 --> 02:04:14,240 Speaker 2: About, right yeah. 2097 02:04:14,320 --> 02:04:16,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, they quote unquote kids in cages. 2098 02:04:16,960 --> 02:04:19,480 Speaker 5: Right yeah, oh they're still on the cage, yeah. 2099 02:04:19,480 --> 02:04:25,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, or the dad but not both. 2100 02:04:25,560 --> 02:04:30,400 Speaker 1: Sometimes God, yeah, it's it's equally it's equally tragic, but 2101 02:04:30,480 --> 02:04:33,000 Speaker 1: it's more tragic that somehow we've normalized it. And like 2102 02:04:33,280 --> 02:04:37,960 Speaker 1: with this immigration stuff only seems to be able to 2103 02:04:38,160 --> 02:04:42,600 Speaker 1: ratchet one way and it's further towards like insane degrees 2104 02:04:42,680 --> 02:04:46,640 Speaker 1: of cruelty, right, Like, Yeah, the fact that Biden is 2105 02:04:46,720 --> 02:04:49,520 Speaker 1: doing what Trump did doesn't mean that Trump will do 2106 02:04:49,640 --> 02:04:52,400 Speaker 1: what Biden did if Trump is elected again, right, Like, 2107 02:04:53,840 --> 02:04:56,040 Speaker 1: somehow they will find a way to make this even worse. 2108 02:04:57,600 --> 02:05:00,480 Speaker 5: Oh, absolutely, And I think the open air detention insights 2109 02:05:00,640 --> 02:05:03,640 Speaker 5: our preview of what we'll see. You know, it's this 2110 02:05:03,840 --> 02:05:10,320 Speaker 5: idea of it being normal to deny people food, water, shelter, 2111 02:05:10,480 --> 02:05:15,440 Speaker 5: and medical care because they, you know, committed this awful 2112 02:05:16,400 --> 02:05:19,040 Speaker 5: crime of crossing the border, which is like a misdemeanor, 2113 02:05:19,200 --> 02:05:21,800 Speaker 5: by the way, and it's not even supposed to be 2114 02:05:21,880 --> 02:05:24,880 Speaker 5: illegal if you're seeking the asylum. The Refugee Convention actually 2115 02:05:24,920 --> 02:05:30,240 Speaker 5: prohibits criminal prosecution of of folks who cross borders irregularly 2116 02:05:30,320 --> 02:05:33,480 Speaker 5: to seek asylum, and by and large, the US attorneys, 2117 02:05:33,840 --> 02:05:37,080 Speaker 5: at least during the Biden administration, have stuck to that. 2118 02:05:37,240 --> 02:05:41,400 Speaker 5: You know, if you're arrested for crossing irregularly and you 2119 02:05:42,280 --> 02:05:45,000 Speaker 5: then apply for asylum. Generally the charges will be dropped. 2120 02:05:45,760 --> 02:05:48,640 Speaker 5: So but like this invader rhetoric right, like, oh, they're 2121 02:05:48,680 --> 02:05:52,560 Speaker 5: invading our country and whatever, the white replacement theory, all 2122 02:05:52,600 --> 02:05:56,200 Speaker 5: of that is really driving this really normalization of the 2123 02:05:56,280 --> 02:05:58,240 Speaker 5: inhumane treatment of border crossers. 2124 02:05:59,320 --> 02:06:01,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, the point you made about that, Yeah, you can 2125 02:06:01,320 --> 02:06:03,520 Speaker 1: cross between ports of entry and they claim asylum, and 2126 02:06:03,920 --> 02:06:09,320 Speaker 1: it's one that seems to be completely missing from their discussion. 2127 02:06:09,400 --> 02:06:13,800 Speaker 1: Like I've seen countless times I've seen that like misrepresented 2128 02:06:14,040 --> 02:06:16,320 Speaker 1: in other articles and it's. 2129 02:06:17,360 --> 02:06:18,720 Speaker 5: In almost every single one. 2130 02:06:19,160 --> 02:06:22,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really disappointed, Like I have very little respect 2131 02:06:22,840 --> 02:06:26,960 Speaker 1: left to lose for other people who work, Like especially 2132 02:06:27,040 --> 02:06:29,760 Speaker 1: folks who wish to report on the border without visiting 2133 02:06:29,840 --> 02:06:33,840 Speaker 1: the border, are just like, what are you sparing yourself 2134 02:06:33,880 --> 02:06:37,000 Speaker 1: to trauma of seeing little children staying outside? Because like 2135 02:06:38,200 --> 02:06:40,160 Speaker 1: their trauma is much greater than yours, you know, and 2136 02:06:40,200 --> 02:06:42,320 Speaker 1: the things that they're coming away from are much greater 2137 02:06:42,480 --> 02:06:44,920 Speaker 1: than any trauma you're going to take on. I understand 2138 02:06:44,960 --> 02:06:47,120 Speaker 1: it's not very nice, but like we should phrase up 2139 02:06:47,160 --> 02:06:50,640 Speaker 1: to the not very nice things so that country does well. 2140 02:06:50,720 --> 02:06:54,440 Speaker 5: You're also members of Congress who legislate on the border 2141 02:06:54,600 --> 02:06:57,080 Speaker 5: or trade away the rights of asylum seekers without ever 2142 02:06:57,280 --> 02:06:59,800 Speaker 5: having met any of them. And those who do come 2143 02:06:59,840 --> 02:07:02,720 Speaker 5: to the border just go on the border patrol tour 2144 02:07:03,320 --> 02:07:06,480 Speaker 5: and don't actually talk to the migrants, and so that's 2145 02:07:06,720 --> 02:07:09,680 Speaker 5: even worse, you know. But yeah, I agree, like this 2146 02:07:09,920 --> 02:07:13,200 Speaker 5: idea that they're illegal is completely wrong. They're inn illegal process. 2147 02:07:13,480 --> 02:07:16,480 Speaker 5: They're not prosecuted for illegal entry by and large, you know, 2148 02:07:16,520 --> 02:07:19,680 Speaker 5: unless they've tried multiple times, and even then if they 2149 02:07:19,760 --> 02:07:21,640 Speaker 5: pass a credible fear interview, a lot of times those 2150 02:07:21,680 --> 02:07:24,880 Speaker 5: criminal charges are dropped, and so they're not illegal. This 2151 02:07:25,080 --> 02:07:27,840 Speaker 5: is a legal process. It's a legal way to access 2152 02:07:28,000 --> 02:07:30,720 Speaker 5: that process, especially when the ports of entry have been 2153 02:07:30,720 --> 02:07:31,480 Speaker 5: closed off to them. 2154 02:07:32,120 --> 02:07:34,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think they've done to enter the US 2155 02:07:34,760 --> 02:07:38,120 Speaker 1: or get any part of their journey disqualifies them from asylum. 2156 02:07:38,200 --> 02:07:40,400 Speaker 1: As you say, it makes it like a quote unquote 2157 02:07:40,400 --> 02:07:45,760 Speaker 1: illegal which is just kind of loaded language anyway. But yeah, 2158 02:07:46,280 --> 02:07:49,280 Speaker 1: they've taken every step to take to make a legal 2159 02:07:49,320 --> 02:07:52,960 Speaker 1: asylum claim, and lots of them will be like extremely 2160 02:07:53,320 --> 02:07:56,400 Speaker 1: aware of having done that, like not wanting to, Like 2161 02:07:56,480 --> 02:08:00,840 Speaker 1: if people wanted to walk out of the they open 2162 02:08:00,880 --> 02:08:04,320 Speaker 1: their attention sites, they could that they're not quote unquote detained, right, 2163 02:08:04,440 --> 02:08:07,560 Speaker 1: But like people are so cautious that they don't want 2164 02:08:07,600 --> 02:08:09,640 Speaker 1: to do anything that might imperil their asylum. 2165 02:08:11,320 --> 02:08:15,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's really sad because they already have by 2166 02:08:15,720 --> 02:08:18,760 Speaker 5: crossing the border between ports of entry. That's what Biden's 2167 02:08:18,800 --> 02:08:22,800 Speaker 5: asylum ban addresses. Yeah, and so they're sort of coming 2168 02:08:22,840 --> 02:08:26,560 Speaker 5: from a defensive posture with respect to their eligibility for 2169 02:08:26,640 --> 02:08:30,240 Speaker 5: asylum by virtue of having done that. But the criminal 2170 02:08:30,320 --> 02:08:33,520 Speaker 5: groups that are organizing their transport tell them that that's 2171 02:08:33,600 --> 02:08:35,840 Speaker 5: the legal way. And people who are coming into open 2172 02:08:35,880 --> 02:08:38,600 Speaker 5: air detention sites believe they are following a legal process, 2173 02:08:38,600 --> 02:08:41,160 Speaker 5: which you know, they are to a certain extent, but 2174 02:08:41,680 --> 02:08:46,360 Speaker 5: there's definitely legal consequences for having access the system that way. 2175 02:08:46,440 --> 02:08:49,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, even though like, yeah, many of these people, 2176 02:08:50,080 --> 02:08:54,480 Speaker 1: like I have sat with dozens of people, maybe hundreds 2177 02:08:54,520 --> 02:08:57,440 Speaker 1: of people, as they've explained to me the amount of 2178 02:08:57,480 --> 02:09:02,400 Speaker 1: time CBP one crashed on their phone, their attempts to 2179 02:09:02,560 --> 02:09:05,880 Speaker 1: go to the US embassy in a city that might 2180 02:09:05,960 --> 02:09:08,240 Speaker 1: not be safe for them, or to like transit through it. 2181 02:09:08,400 --> 02:09:10,880 Speaker 1: You know, look at a regime that wants them dead. 2182 02:09:12,080 --> 02:09:14,840 Speaker 1: You know, hundreds of Kurdish people have shared with me 2183 02:09:15,000 --> 02:09:17,920 Speaker 1: that they've tried to get visas for the US and failed, 2184 02:09:18,280 --> 02:09:23,920 Speaker 1: and they've tried every other option before trying this one. 2185 02:09:24,840 --> 02:09:27,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think most people have. Most people have. 2186 02:09:27,440 --> 02:09:28,200 Speaker 2: No one would do this. 2187 02:09:28,720 --> 02:09:28,840 Speaker 5: You know. 2188 02:09:28,960 --> 02:09:29,480 Speaker 2: It's not fun. 2189 02:09:29,600 --> 02:09:30,680 Speaker 1: It's not fun at all. 2190 02:09:30,960 --> 02:09:31,000 Speaker 5: No. 2191 02:09:32,520 --> 02:09:34,600 Speaker 1: The last thing I wanted you to explain, Erica, is 2192 02:09:35,320 --> 02:09:38,160 Speaker 1: people are placed when they come through this whole system 2193 02:09:38,280 --> 02:09:42,640 Speaker 1: right in a defensive they make a defensive asylum claim. 2194 02:09:42,720 --> 02:09:46,080 Speaker 1: Can you explain what that is and what the difference 2195 02:09:46,080 --> 02:09:49,200 Speaker 1: betwe affirmative and defensive asylum for people, because again, it's 2196 02:09:49,520 --> 02:09:52,720 Speaker 1: a lot of reporting, I've seen it, this is missing. 2197 02:09:53,880 --> 02:09:58,400 Speaker 5: Yeah. So if I came to the US on a 2198 02:09:58,560 --> 02:10:02,680 Speaker 5: visa and then decided I wanted to apply for asylum, 2199 02:10:03,520 --> 02:10:07,360 Speaker 5: I would be applying affirmatively. So that means that I've 2200 02:10:07,440 --> 02:10:11,800 Speaker 5: never been apprehended by immigration. I've never been placed in 2201 02:10:12,000 --> 02:10:16,040 Speaker 5: any kind of removal or deportation proceeding. Removal is just 2202 02:10:16,160 --> 02:10:18,920 Speaker 5: like the legal term for deportation. And so when you 2203 02:10:19,000 --> 02:10:23,480 Speaker 5: apply affirmatively, your initial screening is before an asylum officer. 2204 02:10:23,800 --> 02:10:29,360 Speaker 5: It's a sensibly a non adversarial hearing. But I've been 2205 02:10:29,680 --> 02:10:31,320 Speaker 5: I've been in a lot of them. And that's not 2206 02:10:31,440 --> 02:10:33,080 Speaker 5: always the case. But you know, you don't have like 2207 02:10:33,160 --> 02:10:37,720 Speaker 5: a like a government attorney cross examining you. It's just 2208 02:10:37,920 --> 02:10:40,880 Speaker 5: it's just the asylum officer who's supposed to be nice, 2209 02:10:41,000 --> 02:10:44,640 Speaker 5: but they're not always. And then if you win, if 2210 02:10:44,680 --> 02:10:46,840 Speaker 5: they approve your case, that's the end. You just get 2211 02:10:46,840 --> 02:10:50,840 Speaker 5: asylum and then you know that's a path to citizenship. 2212 02:10:51,320 --> 02:10:53,960 Speaker 5: If you are not approved, then you would be placed 2213 02:10:54,040 --> 02:10:57,640 Speaker 5: in removal proceedings where you could present your asylum case 2214 02:10:57,680 --> 02:11:00,840 Speaker 5: before an immigration judge. And so defense is when you 2215 02:11:01,240 --> 02:11:03,920 Speaker 5: are apprehended or you turn yourself in at the border, 2216 02:11:04,480 --> 02:11:07,480 Speaker 5: you are placed in removal proceedings, so you don't get 2217 02:11:07,520 --> 02:11:10,680 Speaker 5: that first asylum interview before the officer. You just go 2218 02:11:10,800 --> 02:11:14,600 Speaker 5: straight to immigration court. And so when you're presenting your 2219 02:11:14,640 --> 02:11:18,120 Speaker 5: case in immigration court, there's a government attorney who's actively 2220 02:11:18,200 --> 02:11:21,600 Speaker 5: trying to deport you. I think most of the judges 2221 02:11:21,720 --> 02:11:25,600 Speaker 5: used to be government attorneys, and so many times it 2222 02:11:25,640 --> 02:11:29,960 Speaker 5: feels like they're also trying to deport you. And the 2223 02:11:30,080 --> 02:11:34,600 Speaker 5: success of your claim is pretty much completely dependent on 2224 02:11:34,760 --> 02:11:38,840 Speaker 5: where it is adjudicated. So and you know less also 2225 02:11:39,000 --> 02:11:41,640 Speaker 5: to have to do with your nationality. So if you 2226 02:11:42,040 --> 02:11:47,520 Speaker 5: are applying for asylum before the Atlanta Immigration Court. Pretty 2227 02:11:47,600 --> 02:11:50,160 Speaker 5: much ninety nine percent of those cases are denied, and 2228 02:11:50,200 --> 02:11:52,800 Speaker 5: there's some judges who've denied one hundred percent of cases. 2229 02:11:53,320 --> 02:11:56,840 Speaker 5: And that's true for a lot of jurisdictions within the Southeast. 2230 02:11:56,920 --> 02:11:59,320 Speaker 5: And then you know you have your friendlier jurisdictions like 2231 02:11:59,400 --> 02:12:02,520 Speaker 5: San francisc Go. San Diego is not too bad actually, 2232 02:12:02,760 --> 02:12:05,160 Speaker 5: but you know you have other courts where you have 2233 02:12:05,280 --> 02:12:08,120 Speaker 5: a better chance depending on the judge. But it really 2234 02:12:08,200 --> 02:12:12,200 Speaker 5: depends on the location the judge that you happen to get. 2235 02:12:12,280 --> 02:12:15,160 Speaker 5: You could present the same exact claim in different cities 2236 02:12:15,200 --> 02:12:17,480 Speaker 5: before different judges and have a completely different outcome. 2237 02:12:18,480 --> 02:12:21,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no objective criteria and people know this too, 2238 02:12:21,880 --> 02:12:24,960 Speaker 1: but unfortunately, like to get yourself to San Francisco and 2239 02:12:25,120 --> 02:12:28,320 Speaker 1: then survive there. It just as an example, right until 2240 02:12:28,720 --> 02:12:32,240 Speaker 1: your quote day comes up, it's unfathomably expensive, Like for me, 2241 02:12:33,000 --> 02:12:35,080 Speaker 1: I couldn't afford to get myself to San Francisco and 2242 02:12:35,160 --> 02:12:38,760 Speaker 1: make rent there and it's barely plussible in San Diego. 2243 02:12:38,840 --> 02:12:43,480 Speaker 5: So yeah, and you don't You don't qualify for work 2244 02:12:43,560 --> 02:12:47,240 Speaker 5: authorization until I think you can apply five months after 2245 02:12:47,360 --> 02:12:51,160 Speaker 5: you've submitted your application for asylum, and in many cases 2246 02:12:51,440 --> 02:12:54,040 Speaker 5: you don't get your initial court date for months or 2247 02:12:54,160 --> 02:12:58,440 Speaker 5: years after you've entered mostly months. But people don't understand 2248 02:12:58,480 --> 02:13:01,640 Speaker 5: that you can lodge your sylum application before your first 2249 02:13:01,680 --> 02:13:05,240 Speaker 5: court date to get that clock going on your work authorization, 2250 02:13:05,960 --> 02:13:09,720 Speaker 5: and so people I see very commonly are waiting at 2251 02:13:09,800 --> 02:13:13,080 Speaker 5: least a year to get work authorization. And so you know, 2252 02:13:13,200 --> 02:13:15,040 Speaker 5: not only would you have to survive in a high 2253 02:13:15,560 --> 02:13:18,840 Speaker 5: cost of living city, but without the legal ability to work. 2254 02:13:19,400 --> 02:13:21,680 Speaker 5: So it's really hard for people when they first come 2255 02:13:21,720 --> 02:13:25,240 Speaker 5: to the United States. And you know, unlike what is 2256 02:13:25,800 --> 02:13:28,720 Speaker 5: spouted many times in the right wing media space, there 2257 02:13:28,760 --> 02:13:32,000 Speaker 5: are no benefits available to someone who's seeking asylum. They're 2258 02:13:32,000 --> 02:13:33,640 Speaker 5: not getting any kind of government money. 2259 02:13:34,000 --> 02:13:38,480 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, there's a I remember what you have 2260 02:13:38,560 --> 02:13:40,800 Speaker 1: to be it's like a burden of the state or 2261 02:13:40,840 --> 02:13:42,600 Speaker 1: something thing that you have to ward of. 2262 02:13:42,720 --> 02:13:46,680 Speaker 2: I can't remember when you public charge. So like on 2263 02:13:46,760 --> 02:13:48,400 Speaker 2: top of all this, people aren't aware of that. 2264 02:13:48,520 --> 02:13:51,440 Speaker 1: It's very uh, it's sad, Like like I've had a 2265 02:13:51,520 --> 02:13:54,120 Speaker 1: bunch of people who've interviewed or just befriended when I've 2266 02:13:54,120 --> 02:13:56,080 Speaker 1: been helping out in the Cumbat who have. 2267 02:13:56,120 --> 02:13:59,480 Speaker 2: Been like, hey, like, how do I find work? 2268 02:14:00,640 --> 02:14:03,240 Speaker 1: Like well, like, do you know do you have they 2269 02:14:03,320 --> 02:14:05,520 Speaker 1: they didn't realize they wouldn't be permitted to work, like 2270 02:14:06,040 --> 02:14:08,320 Speaker 1: and even like we spoke to him wilst the other 2271 02:14:08,400 --> 02:14:12,919 Speaker 1: day he has offers of work right from his old employer, 2272 02:14:13,640 --> 02:14:15,800 Speaker 1: but they he can't take them up on that because, 2273 02:14:15,800 --> 02:14:19,360 Speaker 1: as you say, he's got to sit doing nothing for 2274 02:14:19,840 --> 02:14:24,160 Speaker 1: five months until he's legally allowed to work. Which is 2275 02:14:24,640 --> 02:14:26,920 Speaker 1: it doesn't help anyone, right, it doesn't doesn't help migrant, 2276 02:14:27,200 --> 02:14:31,280 Speaker 1: it doesn't help us. It just forces people to work 2277 02:14:31,320 --> 02:14:33,960 Speaker 1: for cash or for for lower wage jobs, which leaves 2278 02:14:34,000 --> 02:14:37,640 Speaker 1: him right for abuse sort of for non payment, and like, 2279 02:14:38,240 --> 02:14:40,560 Speaker 1: it's a system that doesn't really work for anyone. They 2280 02:14:40,640 --> 02:14:42,800 Speaker 1: have no rights as workers, rightly. They can also be 2281 02:14:43,120 --> 02:14:45,000 Speaker 1: end up doing very dangerous work, and we've seen that 2282 02:14:45,280 --> 02:14:45,560 Speaker 1: a lot. 2283 02:14:45,840 --> 02:14:48,960 Speaker 5: Well, I think something too that's important to note is 2284 02:14:49,040 --> 02:14:52,720 Speaker 5: that there's obviously all these push factors toward migration, but 2285 02:14:52,920 --> 02:14:55,760 Speaker 5: a huge pull factor is the employment market in the 2286 02:14:55,880 --> 02:14:58,879 Speaker 5: United States. So we have, you know, hundreds of thousands 2287 02:14:58,920 --> 02:15:03,520 Speaker 5: of open jobs, and you know, people have to leave 2288 02:15:03,520 --> 02:15:05,760 Speaker 5: their country, but they also choose to go to a 2289 02:15:05,840 --> 02:15:08,080 Speaker 5: certain place. So many of them, like I said, almost 2290 02:15:08,080 --> 02:15:09,480 Speaker 5: all of them have some kind of tie to the 2291 02:15:09,600 --> 02:15:11,720 Speaker 5: United States, like family or friends. You can host them, 2292 02:15:12,200 --> 02:15:13,800 Speaker 5: but they're not going to come here if they can't 2293 02:15:13,800 --> 02:15:16,760 Speaker 5: get a job. And so it's important to note that 2294 02:15:16,840 --> 02:15:19,600 Speaker 5: as well. And I think what you're saying about the 2295 02:15:20,120 --> 02:15:24,000 Speaker 5: exploitation of migrants in the labor industry is really important 2296 02:15:24,080 --> 02:15:28,200 Speaker 5: because I think that, you know, that's part of why 2297 02:15:28,280 --> 02:15:30,880 Speaker 5: there are so many restrictions, because when you do not 2298 02:15:31,320 --> 02:15:34,840 Speaker 5: provide a path to citizenship, you create a permanent underclass 2299 02:15:35,000 --> 02:15:38,440 Speaker 5: that is very vulnerable to exploitation. And I think that's 2300 02:15:38,480 --> 02:15:39,000 Speaker 5: by design. 2301 02:15:39,800 --> 02:15:44,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it it works very well, right, like an increases 2302 02:15:44,240 --> 02:15:47,440 Speaker 1: for people who are unconcerned with the well being about 2303 02:15:47,440 --> 02:15:50,280 Speaker 1: the humans, let get it, create creates a constant pool 2304 02:15:50,320 --> 02:15:51,560 Speaker 1: of cheap and disposable labor. 2305 02:15:53,080 --> 02:15:56,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, because if they're invaders, you know, and they start 2306 02:15:56,120 --> 02:15:58,680 Speaker 5: to act up and demand their rights, it's very easy 2307 02:15:58,720 --> 02:16:01,160 Speaker 5: politically to just get rid of the supporting Yeah. 2308 02:16:01,320 --> 02:16:03,280 Speaker 1: And that some of the same people who are deploying 2309 02:16:03,320 --> 02:16:06,240 Speaker 1: this closed the border rhetoric, I'm sure also exactly good 2310 02:16:06,240 --> 02:16:10,080 Speaker 1: advantage of that documented labor. And Okay, if people want 2311 02:16:10,080 --> 02:16:13,080 Speaker 1: to help, they want to donate, they want to learn 2312 02:16:13,200 --> 02:16:15,880 Speaker 1: more about this. Is there a place where they can 2313 02:16:15,960 --> 02:16:21,640 Speaker 1: find you or ALO on the internet, so they can. 2314 02:16:21,520 --> 02:16:25,520 Speaker 5: Go to our website, which is al A l O 2315 02:16:25,760 --> 02:16:30,360 Speaker 5: t r O l A d O dot org to donate. 2316 02:16:30,440 --> 02:16:32,800 Speaker 5: There's a donate button there on the homepage, or you 2317 02:16:32,879 --> 02:16:39,560 Speaker 5: can put dot org slash donate. We are a underscore 2318 02:16:39,879 --> 02:16:44,240 Speaker 5: org on all of the social media platforms. And if 2319 02:16:44,320 --> 02:16:47,280 Speaker 5: folks have people in their lives who are migrants who 2320 02:16:47,400 --> 02:16:50,279 Speaker 5: want more information about the asylum system, I would recommend 2321 02:16:50,400 --> 02:16:54,320 Speaker 5: going to our TikTok page, which has multiple videos in 2322 02:16:54,520 --> 02:16:58,480 Speaker 5: over a dozen languages, including many indigenous languages on the 2323 02:16:58,560 --> 02:17:03,160 Speaker 5: asylum process. And then for you know, those of us 2324 02:17:03,240 --> 02:17:06,520 Speaker 5: who are wanting to learn more, our Instagram pages is 2325 02:17:06,920 --> 02:17:08,120 Speaker 5: more public facing. 2326 02:17:09,600 --> 02:17:09,960 Speaker 2: Perfect. 2327 02:17:10,040 --> 02:17:12,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. You guys have some excellent merch as well. 2328 02:17:12,320 --> 02:17:14,840 Speaker 1: You're still selling your t shirt? 2329 02:17:14,879 --> 02:17:17,920 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, we have hope. We have Tope bags and 2330 02:17:18,040 --> 02:17:18,520 Speaker 5: mugs too. 2331 02:17:19,160 --> 02:17:21,560 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, just like NPR but Coola. 2332 02:17:23,320 --> 02:17:24,400 Speaker 3: Well yeah, I. 2333 02:17:24,440 --> 02:17:29,760 Speaker 5: Think we can customize the messaging too. You know, I 2334 02:17:30,400 --> 02:17:33,720 Speaker 5: can think of a few that probably aren't appropriate to 2335 02:17:34,160 --> 02:17:37,240 Speaker 5: stay a polite company, but if folks have suggestions for 2336 02:17:37,320 --> 02:17:38,800 Speaker 5: what they'd like to see in our merch, we'd be 2337 02:17:39,000 --> 02:17:41,600 Speaker 5: more than happy to take those suggestions on our info 2338 02:17:41,720 --> 02:17:42,920 Speaker 5: at Aleta dot org. 2339 02:17:43,000 --> 02:17:46,440 Speaker 1: Email perfect, great, Yeah, I'm sure you'll be flooded with ideas. 2340 02:17:46,640 --> 02:17:50,280 Speaker 5: Thanks, thank you so much for having me. 2341 02:18:04,520 --> 02:18:06,200 Speaker 2: Oh oh, for. 2342 02:18:07,720 --> 02:18:11,320 Speaker 4: Jesus. I just spit cigarettes across the room, spit the 2343 02:18:11,400 --> 02:18:12,840 Speaker 4: proxially seven cigarettes. 2344 02:18:13,640 --> 02:18:15,760 Speaker 2: I had a number of them in my mouth. Welcome 2345 02:18:15,840 --> 02:18:19,279 Speaker 2: back to it could happen here, a podcast about things 2346 02:18:19,480 --> 02:18:22,720 Speaker 2: falling apart, and you know what's constantly falling apart? But 2347 02:18:22,840 --> 02:18:27,080 Speaker 2: also never Las Vegas, Nevada, where Garrison and I are 2348 02:18:27,560 --> 02:18:31,200 Speaker 2: right now reporting on the Consumer Electronics Show, which is 2349 02:18:31,240 --> 02:18:33,200 Speaker 2: why I just had seven cigarettes in my mouth. How 2350 02:18:33,240 --> 02:18:34,280 Speaker 2: you doing, buddy, Great? 2351 02:18:34,320 --> 02:18:37,640 Speaker 4: We just lost about twenty dollars pack to Excalifer. 2352 02:18:37,840 --> 02:18:40,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the worst hotels on the strip. Terrible place, 2353 02:18:41,200 --> 02:18:43,840 Speaker 2: horrible place. But I smoked a lot of cigarettes there, 2354 02:18:43,920 --> 02:18:46,000 Speaker 2: so it's not bad. I don't even like them. 2355 02:18:46,040 --> 02:18:48,920 Speaker 4: I just like doing things I can't do other place, 2356 02:18:49,000 --> 02:18:50,400 Speaker 4: like smoking indoors, is what you're saying. 2357 02:18:50,400 --> 02:18:50,560 Speaker 5: I do. 2358 02:18:50,920 --> 02:18:51,760 Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of it. 2359 02:18:52,840 --> 02:18:53,240 Speaker 4: Other things. 2360 02:18:53,280 --> 02:18:56,600 Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of innovative technology products of which 2361 02:18:56,680 --> 02:19:00,959 Speaker 2: we saw very few, perhaps three today. What we did 2362 02:19:01,080 --> 02:19:05,600 Speaker 2: do is spend seven to eight cumulative hours in different 2363 02:19:06,040 --> 02:19:11,320 Speaker 2: roundtable discussions of various industry experts on AI and the 2364 02:19:11,400 --> 02:19:12,760 Speaker 2: future they have prepared for us. 2365 02:19:12,800 --> 02:19:12,920 Speaker 5: All. 2366 02:19:13,000 --> 02:19:15,160 Speaker 2: We have a fun episode coming for you. Are a 2367 02:19:15,240 --> 02:19:18,000 Speaker 2: couple of them about AI and what the tech industry 2368 02:19:18,000 --> 02:19:18,520 Speaker 2: wants for us. 2369 02:19:18,560 --> 02:19:18,680 Speaker 5: All. 2370 02:19:18,800 --> 02:19:25,320 Speaker 2: But because Garrison got too drunk tonight, that's not true. Well, 2371 02:19:26,160 --> 02:19:29,680 Speaker 2: someone got too drunk tonight, and I'm not at liberty 2372 02:19:29,720 --> 02:19:32,440 Speaker 2: to discuss who We're going to talk about the products 2373 02:19:32,480 --> 02:19:36,480 Speaker 2: today that were just absolute fucking catastrophes. And in order 2374 02:19:36,520 --> 02:19:38,120 Speaker 2: to help us talk about that, I would like to 2375 02:19:38,200 --> 02:19:42,400 Speaker 2: bring in our pinch hitting guest star slash technological expert, 2376 02:19:42,840 --> 02:19:43,480 Speaker 2: Tavia Mora. 2377 02:19:43,640 --> 02:19:45,360 Speaker 4: Tavia, how you doing. 2378 02:19:45,800 --> 02:19:46,480 Speaker 9: I'm doing great. 2379 02:19:46,959 --> 02:19:49,960 Speaker 2: How did you like your first cees? As a journalist, 2380 02:19:51,280 --> 02:19:51,520 Speaker 2: it's a. 2381 02:19:51,520 --> 02:19:54,879 Speaker 9: Little different, but I was glad to get into places 2382 02:19:54,920 --> 02:19:56,200 Speaker 9: I would not otherwise get into. 2383 02:19:56,520 --> 02:20:00,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, now, because you are an industry person, he'll that 2384 02:20:00,360 --> 02:20:03,960 Speaker 2: big sphere thing people might know you hate. Well, you 2385 02:20:04,400 --> 02:20:07,520 Speaker 2: have no journalistic record, which means you and I had 2386 02:20:07,520 --> 02:20:09,520 Speaker 2: to have a good time lying to a lot of 2387 02:20:09,560 --> 02:20:14,320 Speaker 2: strangers today. Was it easy? Yes, it always says, that's 2388 02:20:14,320 --> 02:20:17,760 Speaker 2: the beauty allying to strangers. It's never hard. Anyway, let's 2389 02:20:17,840 --> 02:20:22,160 Speaker 2: get into the products for the day. Let's talk about 2390 02:20:22,520 --> 02:20:25,160 Speaker 2: the dumbest and again, folks, there's actually a lot of 2391 02:20:25,200 --> 02:20:27,680 Speaker 2: cool stuff we saw. There's some really interesting things. This 2392 02:20:27,920 --> 02:20:31,840 Speaker 2: is purely the bullshit. So let's roll on with the bullshit. 2393 02:20:31,920 --> 02:20:36,720 Speaker 2: What is our first piece of trash, guest contestants, Let's. 2394 02:20:36,600 --> 02:20:39,640 Speaker 4: Just jump straight in and go to the Israel Pavilion. 2395 02:20:39,879 --> 02:20:43,160 Speaker 2: You're right, you're right, Okay, Tommy, bring me that mixed 2396 02:20:43,200 --> 02:20:45,720 Speaker 2: drink I've got over there in the corner. So I 2397 02:20:45,760 --> 02:20:48,160 Speaker 2: don't know if you guys are aware, but there's some 2398 02:20:48,360 --> 02:20:52,600 Speaker 2: controversy around Israel and a number of other aspects. 2399 02:20:52,800 --> 02:20:54,800 Speaker 4: But by far the most agregious crime. 2400 02:20:56,240 --> 02:20:59,360 Speaker 2: That is not something we should say, but you know, 2401 02:20:59,480 --> 02:21:01,920 Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of problems are e that 2402 02:21:02,120 --> 02:21:04,039 Speaker 2: part of the world. And they have a pavilion every 2403 02:21:04,080 --> 02:21:08,080 Speaker 2: year at CEES because the country that calls itself Israel 2404 02:21:08,160 --> 02:21:11,560 Speaker 2: has a significant tech industry. So we went down there 2405 02:21:12,160 --> 02:21:14,640 Speaker 2: some interesting stuff occasionally. 2406 02:21:14,320 --> 02:21:14,840 Speaker 5: Not this year. 2407 02:21:15,080 --> 02:21:19,640 Speaker 2: This year it was all trash. And I tried one 2408 02:21:19,760 --> 02:21:21,840 Speaker 2: product at the Israel Pavilion and it was from the 2409 02:21:21,920 --> 02:21:26,400 Speaker 2: company i Aroma Sense. And I'm been going to CEES 2410 02:21:26,480 --> 02:21:29,040 Speaker 2: for about fifteen years now off and on, and I 2411 02:21:29,120 --> 02:21:31,520 Speaker 2: feel like every three years another company is like, We're 2412 02:21:31,560 --> 02:21:34,840 Speaker 2: going to find a way to add smell to your 2413 02:21:34,920 --> 02:21:40,600 Speaker 2: television or gaming experience. First off, I like TV. I 2414 02:21:40,720 --> 02:21:43,440 Speaker 2: like video games. Never once have I wanted to smell them. 2415 02:21:43,840 --> 02:21:45,920 Speaker 2: That has never occurred to me. Garrison, if you ever 2416 02:21:46,000 --> 02:21:47,880 Speaker 2: wanted to smell a thing at a video game? No, 2417 02:21:48,040 --> 02:21:51,360 Speaker 2: not really, No, No, nobody does. Nobody does, because smell 2418 02:21:51,480 --> 02:21:54,480 Speaker 2: is our most finicky sense. Seeing things is even terrible, 2419 02:21:54,560 --> 02:21:55,680 Speaker 2: things is always interesting. 2420 02:21:55,840 --> 02:21:59,160 Speaker 4: Right, I want to smell my way through Silent Hill too, Right, 2421 02:21:59,320 --> 02:21:59,680 Speaker 4: sounds like. 2422 02:22:00,320 --> 02:22:01,560 Speaker 2: I don't want to do that. I don't want to 2423 02:22:01,560 --> 02:22:03,800 Speaker 2: smell my way through Grand Theft Auto three, Like that's 2424 02:22:03,800 --> 02:22:04,560 Speaker 2: a horrible time. 2425 02:22:04,920 --> 02:22:07,560 Speaker 9: And also, frankly, Las Vegas is so full of smells. 2426 02:22:07,840 --> 02:22:09,840 Speaker 4: I think I'm good. Oh my god, we had it. 2427 02:22:10,160 --> 02:22:14,720 Speaker 4: We walked through so many just nuck egregious odors today. 2428 02:22:15,560 --> 02:22:19,360 Speaker 2: So we walk up to this the most controversial year 2429 02:22:19,440 --> 02:22:22,760 Speaker 2: for the Israel Pavilion to exist, and the only place 2430 02:22:22,840 --> 02:22:25,200 Speaker 2: we stop because I see Irama sense and I have 2431 02:22:25,280 --> 02:22:28,720 Speaker 2: a thing. I've tried out every smell product that CES 2432 02:22:28,800 --> 02:22:31,640 Speaker 2: has had in the last decade and change, and I 2433 02:22:31,760 --> 02:22:32,039 Speaker 2: sit in. 2434 02:22:32,080 --> 02:22:34,760 Speaker 4: Front of this one, and there's like this this thing that. 2435 02:22:34,920 --> 02:22:39,240 Speaker 2: Looks like a toilet seat attached to a computer, and 2436 02:22:39,320 --> 02:22:41,680 Speaker 2: they're like, you sit in front of it and you 2437 02:22:41,800 --> 02:22:45,920 Speaker 2: select the smell and you'll you'll experience the scent, and 2438 02:22:46,040 --> 02:22:48,040 Speaker 2: you could have this in a video game or a 2439 02:22:48,120 --> 02:22:50,879 Speaker 2: picture a friend or a lover sends you. So sit 2440 02:22:51,000 --> 02:22:52,880 Speaker 2: down and I look at the menu and one of 2441 02:22:52,879 --> 02:22:55,200 Speaker 2: the options is p and es. Who doesn't like an 2442 02:22:55,320 --> 02:22:55,800 Speaker 2: iced p and e? 2443 02:22:56,000 --> 02:22:56,120 Speaker 4: Right? 2444 02:22:56,520 --> 02:23:00,320 Speaker 2: So I selected, and I could shot in the eyes 2445 02:23:00,560 --> 02:23:04,840 Speaker 2: and knows it burns. There's alcohol in there. It's like 2446 02:23:05,000 --> 02:23:09,520 Speaker 2: somebody maced me with perfume. Like it was not subtle. 2447 02:23:09,840 --> 02:23:12,520 Speaker 2: It was not like an elegant experience. It was like 2448 02:23:12,600 --> 02:23:16,279 Speaker 2: somebody it was like Homer Simpson's makeup shotgun but perfume. 2449 02:23:16,800 --> 02:23:20,279 Speaker 2: That is how I would rate the Iroma Sense company. 2450 02:23:20,560 --> 02:23:23,960 Speaker 4: The product. I think Iroma Sense is the company. The 2451 02:23:24,000 --> 02:23:28,760 Speaker 4: product is called Centacon. They make social media even more 2452 02:23:28,800 --> 02:23:32,520 Speaker 4: of a sensational experience. So I think a big part 2453 02:23:32,560 --> 02:23:34,120 Speaker 4: of their pitch was you can link this up to 2454 02:23:34,160 --> 02:23:37,480 Speaker 4: your phone like text messages or something like Twitter or Instagram, 2455 02:23:37,920 --> 02:23:40,360 Speaker 4: and then get sense blasted at your face via What's 2456 02:23:40,440 --> 02:23:43,240 Speaker 4: on Twitter, which sounds like, again, an awful time. 2457 02:23:43,520 --> 02:23:46,120 Speaker 2: I will say this is an awful time. This company's doomed. 2458 02:23:46,480 --> 02:23:48,320 Speaker 2: There's a version of this that can succeed, and it 2459 02:23:48,400 --> 02:23:52,720 Speaker 2: requires more advanced nanotechnology than we have. But nobody wants 2460 02:23:52,840 --> 02:23:54,560 Speaker 2: to be able to send a nice smell to a 2461 02:23:54,640 --> 02:23:56,320 Speaker 2: loved one. Nobody wants to be able to send a 2462 02:23:56,400 --> 02:23:58,680 Speaker 2: nice smell to a friend. When people do want is 2463 02:23:58,720 --> 02:24:00,720 Speaker 2: you're like out in the world and you see a 2464 02:24:00,800 --> 02:24:05,240 Speaker 2: dead animal somewhere that fucking reefs, or you walk past 2465 02:24:05,640 --> 02:24:08,200 Speaker 2: part of a casino, as we did earlier tonight, it 2466 02:24:08,320 --> 02:24:13,440 Speaker 2: smells like an elderly person has been soiling themselves as 2467 02:24:13,440 --> 02:24:17,240 Speaker 2: a slid machine for eleven hours, and you just you 2468 02:24:17,480 --> 02:24:22,680 Speaker 2: need someone you care about to know. Right, that's the market. 2469 02:24:22,800 --> 02:24:25,240 Speaker 2: And if I could actually record a smell and said it, 2470 02:24:25,480 --> 02:24:27,920 Speaker 2: that's a product, that motherfucker's a product. 2471 02:24:28,200 --> 02:24:31,039 Speaker 4: Imagine the scent based podcasts we could develop. 2472 02:24:31,160 --> 02:24:34,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, when I do, when I finally do 2473 02:24:34,480 --> 02:24:37,920 Speaker 2: the episode on Nicholas Cage, you could smell him as 2474 02:24:38,040 --> 02:24:39,039 Speaker 2: I talk about him. 2475 02:24:39,920 --> 02:24:43,240 Speaker 4: Okay, what what's that? What's the next silly product we 2476 02:24:43,280 --> 02:24:46,600 Speaker 4: should talk about? And we'll talk about talking talking dogs. 2477 02:24:46,680 --> 02:24:50,880 Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, So there's this company. This is 2478 02:24:50,920 --> 02:24:54,120 Speaker 2: a little bit of a teaser where they've liked tomorrow 2479 02:24:54,320 --> 02:24:57,200 Speaker 2: make your dog talk, or something that would make your 2480 02:24:57,280 --> 02:25:01,280 Speaker 2: dog cat and horse stock horse. They did not promise 2481 02:25:01,480 --> 02:25:04,600 Speaker 2: cats and horses when the interviewed them. No, this is 2482 02:25:04,680 --> 02:25:08,160 Speaker 2: a company that it seemed like a nonsense product. I'm 2483 02:25:08,200 --> 02:25:11,400 Speaker 2: still I think it's eighty percent nonsense. But like what 2484 02:25:11,520 --> 02:25:13,720 Speaker 2: it actually is is there were a couple of college 2485 02:25:13,720 --> 02:25:16,720 Speaker 2: students there who specialize in animal behavior, and they had 2486 02:25:16,800 --> 02:25:18,480 Speaker 2: taken a group of I think it was fifty five 2487 02:25:18,720 --> 02:25:21,320 Speaker 2: was then they give us dogs over six months and 2488 02:25:22,520 --> 02:25:26,920 Speaker 2: like exposing the different stimuli and recorded their body images 2489 02:25:27,040 --> 02:25:30,000 Speaker 2: and built basically like an AI model off of that, 2490 02:25:30,200 --> 02:25:32,200 Speaker 2: so that if you send in a picture of a dog, 2491 02:25:32,720 --> 02:25:35,640 Speaker 2: it'll tell you how the dog is feeling, and they 2492 02:25:35,720 --> 02:25:38,200 Speaker 2: hope to get it to visual I don't think at 2493 02:25:38,240 --> 02:25:41,080 Speaker 2: the moment it's near where it would need to be 2494 02:25:41,120 --> 02:25:43,000 Speaker 2: to be a viable product, and they're also not selling 2495 02:25:43,040 --> 02:25:46,480 Speaker 2: it right now. Maybe something will come of this. It's 2496 02:25:46,480 --> 02:25:49,360 Speaker 2: one of those things where objectively, would there be a 2497 02:25:49,520 --> 02:25:52,720 Speaker 2: use in people being able to determine if a dog 2498 02:25:52,920 --> 02:25:55,400 Speaker 2: does or does not want them to get closer Yes, 2499 02:25:55,480 --> 02:25:57,320 Speaker 2: it would stop a lot of people from getting bitten 2500 02:25:57,400 --> 02:25:59,959 Speaker 2: by dogs and a lot of dogs from getting unreasonable 2501 02:26:00,160 --> 02:26:02,880 Speaker 2: punished for biting people who are fucking with them. Right, 2502 02:26:03,120 --> 02:26:06,600 Speaker 2: I agree with that. But I don't think anyone who 2503 02:26:06,720 --> 02:26:08,280 Speaker 2: is the kind of person who is going to get 2504 02:26:08,320 --> 02:26:10,560 Speaker 2: bitten by a dog because they touch a dog that 2505 02:26:10,600 --> 02:26:13,000 Speaker 2: doesn't want them to get touched, is going to use 2506 02:26:13,040 --> 02:26:15,080 Speaker 2: an app to check whether or not that dog is 2507 02:26:15,120 --> 02:26:18,000 Speaker 2: angry at them. Like, I simply don't believe in that 2508 02:26:18,200 --> 02:26:20,360 Speaker 2: as a thing that people will do. So I feel 2509 02:26:20,440 --> 02:26:24,320 Speaker 2: like it's not a doomed effort for science. Sure, the 2510 02:26:25,080 --> 02:26:28,160 Speaker 2: un end in quest of mankind to understand our fellow 2511 02:26:28,720 --> 02:26:32,040 Speaker 2: sentient beings on this planet is valuable, but I don't 2512 02:26:32,040 --> 02:26:33,880 Speaker 2: think it's about valid product idea. 2513 02:26:35,680 --> 02:26:39,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think mostly my problem is that the framing 2514 02:26:39,000 --> 02:26:41,440 Speaker 4: of the marketing is incredibly misleading. Yes, it's not trying 2515 02:26:41,440 --> 02:26:44,119 Speaker 4: to make your dog talk. It's about analyzing the facial 2516 02:26:44,120 --> 02:26:46,680 Speaker 4: expressions of your dog to conduct emotions, which is actually 2517 02:26:46,800 --> 02:26:49,560 Speaker 4: a great product. I think we saw stuff like that 2518 02:26:49,800 --> 02:26:51,120 Speaker 4: here at CES last year as well. 2519 02:26:52,040 --> 02:26:53,920 Speaker 2: There they always try to see this every couple of 2520 02:26:54,000 --> 02:26:56,680 Speaker 2: years too. Someone's gonna we're gonna teach you what your 2521 02:26:56,760 --> 02:26:59,400 Speaker 2: dog means when it does something, when your cat means 2522 02:26:59,480 --> 02:27:02,800 Speaker 2: or whatever. This brings me to a sad part of 2523 02:27:02,879 --> 02:27:06,040 Speaker 2: the story. So there's a company called tact Ai. I 2524 02:27:06,080 --> 02:27:10,920 Speaker 2: think they're Korean, and they had the best branding of 2525 02:27:11,080 --> 02:27:13,520 Speaker 2: like not merch of like shit. They held out. 2526 02:27:13,520 --> 02:27:15,560 Speaker 4: They had like a fake passport and a fake plane 2527 02:27:15,640 --> 02:27:17,800 Speaker 4: ticket to take you to the land of Ai. 2528 02:27:18,480 --> 02:27:21,720 Speaker 2: Wo Ai is the big thing at this at this show, 2529 02:27:22,280 --> 02:27:26,840 Speaker 2: and their product was it's an app that while you're driving, 2530 02:27:27,040 --> 02:27:30,720 Speaker 2: it watches your face and it tells your mood and 2531 02:27:31,000 --> 02:27:33,600 Speaker 2: it gets to know you and it knows. Oh, now 2532 02:27:33,680 --> 02:27:36,240 Speaker 2: you're sad. I'm going to pick from your sad playlist. 2533 02:27:36,320 --> 02:27:39,280 Speaker 2: Oh it's raining outside, I know what you like during 2534 02:27:39,400 --> 02:27:42,200 Speaker 2: rainy days. Yes, that's the fake plane ticket from Las 2535 02:27:42,600 --> 02:27:46,000 Speaker 2: Las Vegas Airport to the AI world. They put more 2536 02:27:46,040 --> 02:27:48,959 Speaker 2: effort into this than the product because the product would 2537 02:27:48,959 --> 02:27:53,360 Speaker 2: switch randomly between happy and angry and neutral. They told 2538 02:27:53,400 --> 02:27:55,119 Speaker 2: me it couldn't read me with a mask, but when 2539 02:27:55,160 --> 02:27:58,280 Speaker 2: I took my mask off, it gave me the same results. 2540 02:27:58,360 --> 02:27:59,920 Speaker 2: There was no difference whatsoeft. 2541 02:28:00,520 --> 02:28:03,280 Speaker 9: Yeah, when I had done it, I had to over 2542 02:28:03,400 --> 02:28:06,960 Speaker 9: exaggerate my emotions in order to get the angry expression 2543 02:28:07,000 --> 02:28:08,560 Speaker 9: to show up or the surprise expression. 2544 02:28:08,720 --> 02:28:11,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, just a horrible For one thing, when you talk 2545 02:28:12,000 --> 02:28:15,960 Speaker 2: about like the animal thing, people have always wanted to 2546 02:28:16,040 --> 02:28:19,560 Speaker 2: know more about how their dogs and cats actually felt 2547 02:28:19,640 --> 02:28:22,240 Speaker 2: about them, Right, that's the thing that's that will always 2548 02:28:22,760 --> 02:28:25,960 Speaker 2: perplex mankind because we love them and we don't speak 2549 02:28:26,000 --> 02:28:28,879 Speaker 2: the same language. No one has ever wanted their car 2550 02:28:29,360 --> 02:28:32,720 Speaker 2: to change the music based on their facial expressions. That's 2551 02:28:32,800 --> 02:28:35,560 Speaker 2: not a single not one person who has ever driven 2552 02:28:35,640 --> 02:28:38,279 Speaker 2: a car has wanted this product to exist. 2553 02:28:38,400 --> 02:28:40,320 Speaker 4: I mentally, you're like almost get into a car accident. 2554 02:28:40,400 --> 02:28:42,600 Speaker 4: Your faces is up that they changed the music and 2555 02:28:42,680 --> 02:28:45,320 Speaker 4: they can play like this like somber tune. 2556 02:28:47,120 --> 02:28:49,600 Speaker 2: Just a horrible idea, but you know it's a good 2557 02:28:49,640 --> 02:28:53,600 Speaker 2: idea of folks. Speaking of products, services, all the things 2558 02:28:53,640 --> 02:28:56,680 Speaker 2: that support this podcast, why don't you go go on 2559 02:28:56,720 --> 02:29:00,080 Speaker 2: a head on down, just go to whoever advertises NEXTX, 2560 02:29:00,680 --> 02:29:05,120 Speaker 2: call your bank and wire transfer everything into your bank 2561 02:29:05,160 --> 02:29:07,920 Speaker 2: account to them. You know, just do it, Just do 2562 02:29:08,000 --> 02:29:10,280 Speaker 2: it right now, Just do it right now, and say Kara, 2563 02:29:10,480 --> 02:29:12,720 Speaker 2: Robert or send it to me. If you're rich, I 2564 02:29:12,760 --> 02:29:14,920 Speaker 2: don't care. Unless you're rich, then send it to me. 2565 02:29:15,240 --> 02:29:15,640 Speaker 4: Good night. 2566 02:29:25,560 --> 02:29:29,000 Speaker 2: Oh we're back. Wow, what a great podcast we're doing. 2567 02:29:29,360 --> 02:29:31,080 Speaker 2: What's our next product on the agenda? 2568 02:29:32,240 --> 02:29:35,200 Speaker 4: You know, I think climate change is a problem that 2569 02:29:35,240 --> 02:29:37,800 Speaker 4: we talk about on this show quite quite a little, 2570 02:29:37,840 --> 02:29:38,000 Speaker 4: is it? 2571 02:29:38,120 --> 02:29:40,560 Speaker 2: Because I had a conversation with a guy who said 2572 02:29:40,560 --> 02:29:41,680 Speaker 2: that he thought it was a lie? 2573 02:29:42,400 --> 02:29:43,160 Speaker 4: Did you today? 2574 02:29:43,640 --> 02:29:45,760 Speaker 2: I had a conversation a couple of weeks ago with 2575 02:29:45,840 --> 02:29:46,640 Speaker 2: a firefighter. 2576 02:29:46,800 --> 02:29:51,800 Speaker 4: Oh great, well, I think the firefighter will be quite busy. Yeah, 2577 02:29:52,160 --> 02:29:55,640 Speaker 4: he sure is going to be. But I think there's 2578 02:29:55,680 --> 02:29:58,280 Speaker 4: a possibility that we might be able to just stol 2579 02:29:58,400 --> 02:30:00,840 Speaker 4: climate change with personal where technology? 2580 02:30:01,040 --> 02:30:05,720 Speaker 2: Oh good, yes, absolutely, yes, Oh silent cicada. 2581 02:30:05,360 --> 02:30:08,720 Speaker 4: That offers a solution. Now, so this is a god. 2582 02:30:08,800 --> 02:30:11,400 Speaker 2: I think this was part of the Korean Uh no, no, 2583 02:30:11,640 --> 02:30:13,640 Speaker 2: it's Chinese. This was part of the Chinese chunk of 2584 02:30:13,760 --> 02:30:17,400 Speaker 2: the Eureka Park, which is like where all the little people, 2585 02:30:17,959 --> 02:30:20,440 Speaker 2: little companies and whatnot not, a whole bunch of tech startups, 2586 02:30:20,600 --> 02:30:22,720 Speaker 2: some of the all of the coolest stuff is there 2587 02:30:22,760 --> 02:30:24,400 Speaker 2: and all of the worst shit is there, which is 2588 02:30:24,400 --> 02:30:25,320 Speaker 2: why that's where we started. 2589 02:30:25,440 --> 02:30:25,560 Speaker 5: Right. 2590 02:30:25,879 --> 02:30:28,400 Speaker 2: So this is a company where they brag it's a 2591 02:30:28,520 --> 02:30:31,959 Speaker 2: personal watch sized worn like a watched air conditioner. 2592 02:30:32,320 --> 02:30:32,920 Speaker 4: The company is. 2593 02:30:32,920 --> 02:30:35,840 Speaker 2: Called Silent Cicada, which makes me think of the book 2594 02:30:35,959 --> 02:30:38,880 Speaker 2: Silent Spring, which was about how all of our pesticides 2595 02:30:38,879 --> 02:30:43,280 Speaker 2: are killing everything, which maybe not the branding they want, 2596 02:30:43,360 --> 02:30:46,320 Speaker 2: but it's a The form factor is actually quite nice. 2597 02:30:46,520 --> 02:30:48,960 Speaker 2: It's like it is like a watch. It has this 2598 02:30:49,560 --> 02:30:51,760 Speaker 2: like the frame of the watch lifts up and that's 2599 02:30:51,800 --> 02:30:53,720 Speaker 2: the battery and you can switch them out or whatnot 2600 02:30:53,720 --> 02:30:55,640 Speaker 2: if you want to keep it going and and stay 2601 02:30:55,800 --> 02:30:59,160 Speaker 2: charged with this personal air conditioner. Here's the problem. Doesn't work, 2602 02:30:59,440 --> 02:31:01,320 Speaker 2: doesn't do a s. And it was one of those 2603 02:31:01,360 --> 02:31:03,800 Speaker 2: things where I see it's a single side hand watch 2604 02:31:03,840 --> 02:31:05,000 Speaker 2: and I'm like, because this is just kind of cool 2605 02:31:05,040 --> 02:31:07,560 Speaker 2: down my hand. I feel like, if you wanted a 2606 02:31:07,600 --> 02:31:09,680 Speaker 2: cooler person now, based on what I know from like 2607 02:31:09,840 --> 02:31:12,640 Speaker 2: medical training about heat stroke, if you want a cooler 2608 02:31:12,720 --> 02:31:15,840 Speaker 2: person down who's overheating back of the neck, right, like 2609 02:31:15,959 --> 02:31:18,000 Speaker 2: that's going to be your go to, not maybe the wrist. 2610 02:31:18,480 --> 02:31:21,400 Speaker 2: But he puts this thing on and he like pushes 2611 02:31:21,480 --> 02:31:23,160 Speaker 2: it down. He's like, in a couple of minutes, you'll 2612 02:31:23,240 --> 02:31:26,480 Speaker 2: notice that you'll you're a lot cooler. And I'm like, okay, 2613 02:31:27,160 --> 02:31:29,360 Speaker 2: how does it work? And like, I'm not an expert 2614 02:31:29,480 --> 02:31:31,080 Speaker 2: on an a of this. I was expecting him to 2615 02:31:31,120 --> 02:31:34,480 Speaker 2: say something like, well, the way your body's heat regulation, 2616 02:31:34,600 --> 02:31:36,680 Speaker 2: you can trick it by doing this, or then he's like, no, no, no, 2617 02:31:37,040 --> 02:31:39,840 Speaker 2: it's an acupuncture thing. This is where like your accupuncture 2618 02:31:39,840 --> 02:31:42,440 Speaker 2: point to cool your body down is. And I'm like, well, 2619 02:31:42,440 --> 02:31:45,040 Speaker 2: all right, I guess we'll see if it works. 2620 02:31:45,280 --> 02:31:47,640 Speaker 4: And I first thought it was like like a tiny fan, 2621 02:31:47,879 --> 02:31:48,920 Speaker 4: but that is not the case. 2622 02:31:49,000 --> 02:31:51,440 Speaker 2: Nope, as far as I can tell, it does nothing, 2623 02:31:51,560 --> 02:31:53,120 Speaker 2: because that is what it did to me. And the 2624 02:31:53,160 --> 02:31:54,760 Speaker 2: five minutes I had it on is nothing. 2625 02:31:55,000 --> 02:31:56,880 Speaker 4: And you really humor the guy like you do not 2626 02:31:56,959 --> 02:31:58,119 Speaker 4: just put it on for like a minute then walk 2627 02:31:58,160 --> 02:32:00,320 Speaker 4: away you were you were with him for us solid 2628 02:32:00,560 --> 02:32:01,680 Speaker 4: a solid drunk guitar I have. 2629 02:32:01,920 --> 02:32:04,720 Speaker 2: I don't believe in acupuncture because I've done had it 2630 02:32:04,800 --> 02:32:06,720 Speaker 2: done to me When I had I had a guy 2631 02:32:07,120 --> 02:32:09,280 Speaker 2: who convinced my parents it would cure my allergies, and 2632 02:32:09,360 --> 02:32:11,840 Speaker 2: it did not. It did nothing at all. But my grandpa, 2633 02:32:11,920 --> 02:32:14,800 Speaker 2: who had Parkinson, suffered terribly from it. And the only 2634 02:32:15,000 --> 02:32:17,360 Speaker 2: thing of all of the different shit we tried with his, 2635 02:32:17,520 --> 02:32:19,440 Speaker 2: like fucking Vivashia, the only thing they give him a 2636 02:32:19,440 --> 02:32:24,600 Speaker 2: relief was acupuncture. So I'm not a believer, but I'm 2637 02:32:24,640 --> 02:32:27,880 Speaker 2: open to the possibility. But I can say, based on 2638 02:32:27,959 --> 02:32:31,360 Speaker 2: my own experience, this shit did nothing like that. That 2639 02:32:31,600 --> 02:32:33,760 Speaker 2: is what I can say about this fucking thing is 2640 02:32:33,840 --> 02:32:37,280 Speaker 2: it did not a goddamn thing. So I don't know. 2641 02:32:37,480 --> 02:32:40,960 Speaker 2: That's I was disappointed. I would level watch sized personal 2642 02:32:41,040 --> 02:32:44,000 Speaker 2: air conditioner, but I cannot imagine the more more useless 2643 02:32:44,040 --> 02:32:45,200 Speaker 2: product than the one that I tried. 2644 02:32:45,240 --> 02:32:48,320 Speaker 4: I mean, that just doesn't When you say a watch 2645 02:32:48,520 --> 02:32:51,320 Speaker 4: size personal air of course that's not gonna work. It's 2646 02:32:51,320 --> 02:32:51,879 Speaker 4: not gonna work. 2647 02:32:52,160 --> 02:32:54,160 Speaker 2: Somebody makes like a jacket that air can Yeah, I 2648 02:32:54,160 --> 02:32:55,720 Speaker 2: can see how that could work. It could clear down 2649 02:32:55,800 --> 02:32:57,640 Speaker 2: and it's I'm also, by the way, folks, I'm not 2650 02:32:57,720 --> 02:33:01,760 Speaker 2: saying I think acupuncture works. I'm just saying I'm open 2651 02:33:01,840 --> 02:33:04,480 Speaker 2: to some magical thinking in this realm because of what 2652 02:33:04,640 --> 02:33:07,320 Speaker 2: happened to somebody I cared about. But it didn't work. 2653 02:33:08,040 --> 02:33:12,160 Speaker 2: So don't buy this acupuncture air conditioner. Watch it will 2654 02:33:12,200 --> 02:33:14,880 Speaker 2: not help you. Silence Cicada doesn't work. 2655 02:33:15,160 --> 02:33:18,000 Speaker 4: You know, we did a lot of walking today. There's 2656 02:33:18,560 --> 02:33:21,440 Speaker 4: CS is pretty big. The Las Vegas Convention Center is 2657 02:33:21,440 --> 02:33:25,440 Speaker 4: pretty large. The Venetian is pretty large, and I like 2658 02:33:25,520 --> 02:33:27,680 Speaker 4: to stay fit. Sometimes I go on jogs, sometimes they 2659 02:33:27,680 --> 02:33:29,440 Speaker 4: go running, and sometimes I work. 2660 02:33:29,480 --> 02:33:30,960 Speaker 2: I feel like this is a bit. I feel like 2661 02:33:31,040 --> 02:33:33,080 Speaker 2: you're doing a bit. I don't know, maybe it's just 2662 02:33:33,160 --> 02:33:33,560 Speaker 2: your face. 2663 02:33:33,720 --> 02:33:35,760 Speaker 4: I'm being followed behind me, you know. 2664 02:33:36,520 --> 02:33:37,720 Speaker 2: Okay, that's a bit great. 2665 02:33:37,920 --> 02:33:41,160 Speaker 4: Yes, when I'm jogging, and I wish there's a product 2666 02:33:41,200 --> 02:33:44,080 Speaker 4: that made me feel safer when jogging that could alert 2667 02:33:44,160 --> 02:33:45,279 Speaker 4: me if there's like a stalk. 2668 02:33:45,360 --> 02:33:51,360 Speaker 2: So, by far of us, the person who has well 2669 02:33:51,400 --> 02:33:54,879 Speaker 2: at least the best situational awareness relative to mays Tavia. 2670 02:33:55,240 --> 02:33:57,760 Speaker 2: So we're in this little room. I guess you were 2671 02:33:57,760 --> 02:33:59,240 Speaker 2: there too, and you didn't notice. So I'll give the 2672 02:33:59,320 --> 02:34:02,520 Speaker 2: crowd to Tavia for this. There's a there's a booth. 2673 02:34:03,120 --> 02:34:03,760 Speaker 4: It's all booth. 2674 02:34:03,800 --> 02:34:06,440 Speaker 2: It's all these weird cubicles, right, and each cubicle will 2675 02:34:06,480 --> 02:34:09,000 Speaker 2: be like sometimes it's a company. Sometimes it's just like 2676 02:34:09,080 --> 02:34:11,600 Speaker 2: a dude with his invention. And one of the booths 2677 02:34:11,640 --> 02:34:14,120 Speaker 2: we could see from the corner of our eye a 2678 02:34:14,360 --> 02:34:19,400 Speaker 2: white all caps piece of paper stapled to it that 2679 02:34:19,720 --> 02:34:22,760 Speaker 2: just said don't get attacked from behind. 2680 02:34:23,640 --> 02:34:26,959 Speaker 9: Now I think it was written in comic sans. 2681 02:34:26,840 --> 02:34:28,920 Speaker 2: It might have been comic SAMs may I posted the 2682 02:34:28,959 --> 02:34:32,080 Speaker 2: picture online if it's not in my scream at Tavia 2683 02:34:32,160 --> 02:34:37,520 Speaker 2: for being a liar. Wow, Wow, wow, I that's that's 2684 02:34:37,640 --> 02:34:40,320 Speaker 2: quite a thing. Like you see a sign at at 2685 02:34:40,360 --> 02:34:43,240 Speaker 2: a convention like that that says never get attacked from behind. 2686 02:34:43,959 --> 02:34:45,400 Speaker 2: You have to know what it's about. 2687 02:34:45,840 --> 02:34:49,080 Speaker 9: So we went and the promo video for it was 2688 02:34:49,240 --> 02:34:52,640 Speaker 9: absolutely incredible. It started with about ten to fifteen seconds 2689 02:34:52,680 --> 02:34:57,800 Speaker 9: of your typical emotion graphics, typography kind of animating on 2690 02:34:57,959 --> 02:34:59,720 Speaker 9: and off, and then we get to a live action 2691 02:35:00,320 --> 02:35:05,240 Speaker 9: where we see a woman putting on and setting up there. 2692 02:35:05,879 --> 02:35:07,920 Speaker 9: I guess some technology. I'm not sure exactly the name 2693 02:35:07,920 --> 02:35:08,080 Speaker 9: of the. 2694 02:35:08,080 --> 02:35:09,039 Speaker 2: Prout A harness. 2695 02:35:09,160 --> 02:35:10,080 Speaker 9: That's a harness. 2696 02:35:10,240 --> 02:35:12,959 Speaker 2: It's got like yellow that like lights up when it's 2697 02:35:13,000 --> 02:35:14,800 Speaker 2: under a light. It's like a it's like a runner's 2698 02:35:14,840 --> 02:35:18,600 Speaker 2: harness with a little bitty square sized camera. It's about 2699 02:35:18,640 --> 02:35:20,200 Speaker 2: the size you know how food carts will have those 2700 02:35:20,240 --> 02:35:21,840 Speaker 2: little squares you plug them into the phone, you run 2701 02:35:21,879 --> 02:35:23,960 Speaker 2: your card through. It's about that size, but it's a 2702 02:35:24,080 --> 02:35:26,720 Speaker 2: camera and it goes on the back of this harness. 2703 02:35:27,160 --> 02:35:30,039 Speaker 9: Right, And so we see this woman setting that up 2704 02:35:30,080 --> 02:35:32,040 Speaker 9: on her phone and then going on a jog and 2705 02:35:32,120 --> 02:35:33,760 Speaker 9: she's jogging along, and then there is. 2706 02:35:33,840 --> 02:35:37,240 Speaker 2: A single There's a rapist. There's a rapist, and he's 2707 02:35:37,560 --> 02:35:40,640 Speaker 2: he is sitting by the side of the road, leaning 2708 02:35:40,760 --> 02:35:44,160 Speaker 2: against a wall, looking pretending to look at his phone, 2709 02:35:44,240 --> 02:35:45,959 Speaker 2: and he sees the jogger. 2710 02:35:45,800 --> 02:35:49,119 Speaker 9: And mind you like, there is literally no one else 2711 02:35:49,480 --> 02:35:50,040 Speaker 9: on this path. 2712 02:35:51,080 --> 02:35:53,880 Speaker 2: And that's all. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be 2713 02:35:54,000 --> 02:35:56,280 Speaker 2: light about it. That is who the characters are in 2714 02:35:56,360 --> 02:35:56,840 Speaker 2: this film. 2715 02:35:57,080 --> 02:35:59,600 Speaker 9: It's definitely a dude sitting there, and so she picks 2716 02:35:59,640 --> 02:36:03,480 Speaker 9: a okay, very well, and so she runs past him. 2717 02:36:03,879 --> 02:36:05,760 Speaker 9: And then he gets up and he starts jogging after 2718 02:36:05,840 --> 02:36:07,599 Speaker 9: in the most like limp wristed. 2719 02:36:07,320 --> 02:36:11,560 Speaker 2: Way, not fast, not aggressively. Honestly, outside of the fact 2720 02:36:11,600 --> 02:36:13,360 Speaker 2: that we know from the setting of the scene that 2721 02:36:13,480 --> 02:36:16,800 Speaker 2: this man is a sex criminal, there's nothing about his 2722 02:36:17,000 --> 02:36:20,240 Speaker 2: run that is aggressive. He looks like an out of 2723 02:36:20,360 --> 02:36:22,680 Speaker 2: shape guy doing his best to get into shape, maybe 2724 02:36:22,720 --> 02:36:24,800 Speaker 2: for his kids right, to try to live a little 2725 02:36:24,800 --> 02:36:27,400 Speaker 2: bit longer, take care of his family. That's how he 2726 02:36:27,520 --> 02:36:28,400 Speaker 2: looks in the video. 2727 02:36:28,600 --> 02:36:28,800 Speaker 5: Yeah. 2728 02:36:28,800 --> 02:36:32,880 Speaker 9: Absolutely. And the way that this piece of technology works 2729 02:36:33,000 --> 02:36:35,199 Speaker 9: is that if somebody gets close enough. 2730 02:36:35,200 --> 02:36:37,600 Speaker 2: To the back side of you where this talk more 2731 02:36:37,640 --> 02:36:38,720 Speaker 2: about this later where this. 2732 02:36:38,840 --> 02:36:41,959 Speaker 9: Can see you. It will send a I think an 2733 02:36:42,040 --> 02:36:44,520 Speaker 9: audio alarm to your headphones as well as a text 2734 02:36:44,560 --> 02:36:46,280 Speaker 9: message to your phone watch. 2735 02:36:46,360 --> 02:36:48,040 Speaker 2: You can have it buzz your watch, or you can 2736 02:36:48,120 --> 02:36:51,040 Speaker 2: have it like interrupt your music in your headphones. That 2737 02:36:51,240 --> 02:36:53,080 Speaker 2: someone is behind you, right. 2738 02:36:53,520 --> 02:36:56,640 Speaker 9: She turns around and she puts out her palm towards him, 2739 02:36:56,720 --> 02:36:59,560 Speaker 9: like stop, and he does. He just stares at her 2740 02:36:59,640 --> 02:36:59,959 Speaker 9: and then. 2741 02:37:00,920 --> 02:37:05,040 Speaker 2: Shot way sure he runs away. That is the end 2742 02:37:05,080 --> 02:37:05,800 Speaker 2: of the interaction. 2743 02:37:06,120 --> 02:37:08,160 Speaker 9: It's the most one of the most bizarre videos I'd 2744 02:37:08,200 --> 02:37:08,640 Speaker 9: ever seen. 2745 02:37:08,840 --> 02:37:12,000 Speaker 2: It's it's so maybe we'll post it. Look find us 2746 02:37:12,040 --> 02:37:14,480 Speaker 2: on Twitter, find find me at eye right, Okay, it'll 2747 02:37:14,520 --> 02:37:19,280 Speaker 2: be up there somewhere, probably after me yelling about fucking. 2748 02:37:20,560 --> 02:37:21,640 Speaker 2: I don't know a lot of things. 2749 02:37:21,840 --> 02:37:24,880 Speaker 9: It was clearly advertised towards women. Every picture that I 2750 02:37:24,959 --> 02:37:27,880 Speaker 9: saw in that booth was showing a woman jogging. 2751 02:37:28,040 --> 02:37:33,120 Speaker 2: I absolutely understand Number one, not shocked at all that 2752 02:37:33,280 --> 02:37:37,240 Speaker 2: women are more likely than men to feel afraid while jogging. 2753 02:37:38,200 --> 02:37:40,080 Speaker 2: One thing that was interesting to me because they had 2754 02:37:40,120 --> 02:37:43,000 Speaker 2: some statistics. I didn't look into the providence of these statistics, 2755 02:37:43,040 --> 02:37:45,000 Speaker 2: but one of them was like sixty or seventy percent 2756 02:37:45,080 --> 02:37:50,039 Speaker 2: of women are afraid of being hurt while jogging, but. 2757 02:37:50,120 --> 02:37:54,879 Speaker 4: Like fifty percent. It was, it was like, ninety percent 2758 02:37:54,959 --> 02:37:58,680 Speaker 4: are afraid jogging, yeah, and fifty percent are afraid that 2759 02:37:58,720 --> 02:37:59,920 Speaker 4: they'll get physically hurt. 2760 02:38:00,240 --> 02:38:02,440 Speaker 2: So a lot of them, a lot of them. Part 2761 02:38:02,480 --> 02:38:04,320 Speaker 2: of what's dishonest about that is that a lot of 2762 02:38:04,400 --> 02:38:06,680 Speaker 2: women are scared of the Yeah, ninety two percent of 2763 02:38:06,720 --> 02:38:08,680 Speaker 2: women are scared for the safety wind running. Fifty one 2764 02:38:08,720 --> 02:38:11,800 Speaker 2: percent are afraid of being physically attacked, right, And what 2765 02:38:11,959 --> 02:38:14,000 Speaker 2: that means to me is that because I am I 2766 02:38:14,680 --> 02:38:18,600 Speaker 2: run basically every day, and I am scared of being 2767 02:38:18,720 --> 02:38:21,760 Speaker 2: injured while running because people are shitty at driving and 2768 02:38:21,879 --> 02:38:24,480 Speaker 2: we live in the United States of America where everybody 2769 02:38:24,600 --> 02:38:28,840 Speaker 2: has a gigantic car. Anyway, not to miscount that, but 2770 02:38:29,080 --> 02:38:30,800 Speaker 2: I think that's a dishonest a little bit of a 2771 02:38:30,840 --> 02:38:34,960 Speaker 2: dishonest framing that said, I understand that, like, yeah, if 2772 02:38:35,000 --> 02:38:38,119 Speaker 2: you're a woman, you are at heightened risk while jogging. 2773 02:38:38,200 --> 02:38:40,160 Speaker 2: That is a scary thing. I do not think this 2774 02:38:40,360 --> 02:38:43,040 Speaker 2: product is going to improve your safety. I think it 2775 02:38:43,160 --> 02:38:45,000 Speaker 2: is probably going to piss you off and maybe let 2776 02:38:45,120 --> 02:38:47,960 Speaker 2: make you want to run less, which is statistically like 2777 02:38:48,040 --> 02:38:51,080 Speaker 2: clear to have a negative impact on your health, because 2778 02:38:51,560 --> 02:38:55,120 Speaker 2: it is. It just sets off an alarm. Whenever someone 2779 02:38:55,240 --> 02:38:55,840 Speaker 2: is behind you. 2780 02:38:56,240 --> 02:38:58,800 Speaker 4: You're detected behind you by an AI camera. 2781 02:38:59,320 --> 02:39:01,680 Speaker 2: And like where I run, and I run where a 2782 02:39:01,720 --> 02:39:04,959 Speaker 2: place a lot of women run there too, There's always 2783 02:39:05,040 --> 02:39:08,359 Speaker 2: someone behind you. That's the nature of running trails. 2784 02:39:08,080 --> 02:39:11,120 Speaker 4: Like behind you by like twenty feet, not like right 2785 02:39:11,240 --> 02:39:15,840 Speaker 4: behind you, like by a decent amount. And you can 2786 02:39:15,879 --> 02:39:18,360 Speaker 4: debate what are good self defense tools, blah blah blah blah. 2787 02:39:18,640 --> 02:39:21,840 Speaker 4: Mace is pretty effective for these sorts of scenarios. I 2788 02:39:21,959 --> 02:39:25,080 Speaker 4: don't think this camera and turning around and holding your 2789 02:39:25,160 --> 02:39:28,480 Speaker 4: handout is going to be extremely effective, at least not 2790 02:39:28,600 --> 02:39:30,160 Speaker 4: more effective than pepper spray. 2791 02:39:30,720 --> 02:39:33,760 Speaker 9: I think it was also mentioned that a really large 2792 02:39:33,840 --> 02:39:35,320 Speaker 9: dog or a horse. 2793 02:39:35,800 --> 02:39:38,760 Speaker 2: If I'm correct, they did say horse. They did absolutely 2794 02:39:38,840 --> 02:39:39,360 Speaker 2: say horse. 2795 02:39:39,760 --> 02:39:42,360 Speaker 9: Yeah, if a horse is picked up by this thing, 2796 02:39:42,440 --> 02:39:47,720 Speaker 9: then it would consider it to be an intruder assault. 2797 02:39:47,920 --> 02:39:50,119 Speaker 9: I'm not exactly sure the term that they would use. 2798 02:39:50,640 --> 02:39:50,959 Speaker 5: I just. 2799 02:39:52,480 --> 02:39:54,000 Speaker 2: We asked them about all this just to trying to 2800 02:39:54,040 --> 02:39:57,359 Speaker 2: clarify because, like my first thought was that because sometimes 2801 02:39:57,400 --> 02:39:58,960 Speaker 2: you ask people stuff like this and they have a 2802 02:39:59,000 --> 02:40:01,400 Speaker 2: good answer. Year we talked to these people who had, like, 2803 02:40:01,480 --> 02:40:04,280 Speaker 2: this pair of glasses. If you're hard of hearing, it 2804 02:40:04,400 --> 02:40:07,400 Speaker 2: auto translates and projects into the glasses the language, and 2805 02:40:07,480 --> 02:40:11,320 Speaker 2: so like, my first gotcha was like, is this stored anywhere? 2806 02:40:11,360 --> 02:40:13,879 Speaker 2: Because if it's stored anywhere, then maybe you're giving someone's 2807 02:40:13,879 --> 02:40:15,680 Speaker 2: conversation to the government. And they had an answer to that, 2808 02:40:15,720 --> 02:40:18,400 Speaker 2: which was that like, no, there's nothing stored locally. It's 2809 02:40:18,560 --> 02:40:21,800 Speaker 2: all on the device and none of it is saved anywhere. 2810 02:40:22,360 --> 02:40:26,440 Speaker 2: Good answer. Right this question, I'm like, how do you 2811 02:40:26,560 --> 02:40:30,000 Speaker 2: discriminate between someone running up behind you for a banal reason, 2812 02:40:30,080 --> 02:40:31,840 Speaker 2: like you're on a running track and something who's a 2813 02:40:31,920 --> 02:40:34,880 Speaker 2: danger And their answer was, oh, it all pauses your 2814 02:40:34,959 --> 02:40:37,120 Speaker 2: music and sets off an alarm and you have to 2815 02:40:37,200 --> 02:40:39,640 Speaker 2: discriminate it, which is like, well, because the whole the 2816 02:40:39,720 --> 02:40:41,760 Speaker 2: tagline is don't look behind you, and it's like, well, 2817 02:40:41,800 --> 02:40:42,520 Speaker 2: then you have to look. 2818 02:40:42,360 --> 02:40:44,840 Speaker 4: Behind you to look behind you. 2819 02:40:45,400 --> 02:40:49,320 Speaker 2: Horrible product. Don't buy this thing. I understand the need. 2820 02:40:49,440 --> 02:40:51,080 Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's not a real need. This is 2821 02:40:51,120 --> 02:40:52,840 Speaker 2: a bad product for serving that now. 2822 02:40:53,040 --> 02:40:54,760 Speaker 4: I don't think you should buy this product. But there 2823 02:40:54,800 --> 02:40:57,280 Speaker 4: are some products I think you should buy, and that 2824 02:40:57,480 --> 02:41:00,280 Speaker 4: is the products and services that support this pot cast. 2825 02:41:00,360 --> 02:41:03,400 Speaker 2: You know, Garrison, this is the first time I've ever 2826 02:41:03,440 --> 02:41:06,119 Speaker 2: been proud of you. But right now, right here, right here, 2827 02:41:06,240 --> 02:41:09,279 Speaker 2: right now, right now, you know what, At like one am, 2828 02:41:09,879 --> 02:41:14,360 Speaker 2: one am, one am, Wednesday morning, Las Vegas, Garrison and 2829 02:41:14,400 --> 02:41:17,400 Speaker 2: I are gonna hug for the very first time. But 2830 02:41:17,520 --> 02:41:30,280 Speaker 2: you all listen to these ads. Ah oh man, wow, 2831 02:41:30,360 --> 02:41:32,840 Speaker 2: we really we really worked through some stuff there, listeners. 2832 02:41:33,320 --> 02:41:35,600 Speaker 9: It was extraordinarily touching. There were tears. 2833 02:41:36,320 --> 02:41:38,000 Speaker 2: We're never going to talk about this again. 2834 02:41:39,240 --> 02:41:39,600 Speaker 3: But we are. 2835 02:41:39,720 --> 02:41:41,760 Speaker 4: What we are going to talk about is I want 2836 02:41:41,800 --> 02:41:44,360 Speaker 4: to talk about two AI products before we get to 2837 02:41:44,400 --> 02:41:47,080 Speaker 4: the one actually kind of fucked up product. The first 2838 02:41:47,360 --> 02:41:51,480 Speaker 4: is this is this Image Generation backpacks. I know, we 2839 02:41:51,600 --> 02:41:54,120 Speaker 4: God damn it, we're you know, coming back to school 2840 02:41:54,160 --> 02:41:57,240 Speaker 4: from winter, right of course, yeah, of course sure, and 2841 02:41:57,400 --> 02:41:59,720 Speaker 4: you know your best fashion when you're going back to 2842 02:42:00,120 --> 02:42:02,920 Speaker 4: off your memes. Absolutely so, what if you had a 2843 02:42:02,959 --> 02:42:06,280 Speaker 4: backpack that not only had a very low res led 2844 02:42:06,480 --> 02:42:09,080 Speaker 4: panel on the back, but also you could upload whatever 2845 02:42:09,120 --> 02:42:12,440 Speaker 4: you want using the power of AI. Of course Robert 2846 02:42:12,600 --> 02:42:15,640 Speaker 4: was able to test out. I sure see the power 2847 02:42:15,800 --> 02:42:18,840 Speaker 4: of image of this Image generations. 2848 02:42:19,440 --> 02:42:21,360 Speaker 2: This is a backpack with a screen that would have 2849 02:42:21,360 --> 02:42:23,640 Speaker 2: been out of date in two thousand and nine, but 2850 02:42:24,240 --> 02:42:27,560 Speaker 2: it can take input from your phone. So I put 2851 02:42:27,640 --> 02:42:31,240 Speaker 2: in Tom size more, but not the sex pest Tom 2852 02:42:31,360 --> 02:42:33,720 Speaker 2: size More. Now, if you're not aware of this, Tom 2853 02:42:33,800 --> 02:42:36,920 Speaker 2: size Moore sexually assaulted an eleven year old. That's not 2854 02:42:37,040 --> 02:42:40,360 Speaker 2: a joke. But I wanted to see what it would return, 2855 02:42:41,000 --> 02:42:44,000 Speaker 2: and it gave us a picture of a man who 2856 02:42:44,080 --> 02:42:46,960 Speaker 2: did not look like Tom Sizemore. We were baffled. We 2857 02:42:47,040 --> 02:42:49,560 Speaker 2: spent some time googling. We figured it out. If you 2858 02:42:49,680 --> 02:42:52,320 Speaker 2: google Tom size more with a beard, which we did not, 2859 02:42:52,600 --> 02:42:54,560 Speaker 2: that is not what we asked it, you get a 2860 02:42:54,640 --> 02:42:57,760 Speaker 2: photo of Tommy Lee Jones that looks exactly like, pretty 2861 02:42:57,760 --> 02:43:02,280 Speaker 2: similarly what the AI served us. Now, why did it 2862 02:43:02,400 --> 02:43:04,560 Speaker 2: give us Tommy Lee Jones with a beard when we 2863 02:43:04,640 --> 02:43:08,039 Speaker 2: asked for Tom Sizemore not looking like a child sex predator. 2864 02:43:08,520 --> 02:43:11,959 Speaker 2: Maybe because that's so Tommy Lee Jones is. Maybe Tommy 2865 02:43:12,040 --> 02:43:15,120 Speaker 2: Lee Jones is Tom size Moore if he wasn't a 2866 02:43:15,200 --> 02:43:16,240 Speaker 2: child sex predator. 2867 02:43:16,720 --> 02:43:19,040 Speaker 4: That's what the AI said, and who are we to 2868 02:43:19,160 --> 02:43:22,760 Speaker 4: doubt it now? I did also test David Lynch smashing 2869 02:43:23,240 --> 02:43:26,520 Speaker 4: smashing a computer, which was pretty was a pretty accurate 2870 02:43:26,640 --> 02:43:29,560 Speaker 4: That one worked out. Yeah again, this is a pretty 2871 02:43:29,600 --> 02:43:31,480 Speaker 4: gimmicky product. I don't even know how much they were 2872 02:43:31,480 --> 02:43:32,920 Speaker 4: selling it for Happy. 2873 02:43:32,720 --> 02:43:35,920 Speaker 2: Side AI backpack. It is a gimmicky product, and we 2874 02:43:36,040 --> 02:43:38,080 Speaker 2: made fun of it. I will say this. We spent 2875 02:43:38,160 --> 02:43:41,320 Speaker 2: our whole morning in different AI panels. There will be 2876 02:43:41,400 --> 02:43:44,040 Speaker 2: more in depth reporting on that later. This is our 2877 02:43:44,120 --> 02:43:47,720 Speaker 2: first takes. But of all of the AI shit we 2878 02:43:47,840 --> 02:43:50,720 Speaker 2: saw that day, this is the one that worked best. 2879 02:43:50,800 --> 02:43:51,520 Speaker 4: Yes, that's true. 2880 02:43:51,640 --> 02:43:54,720 Speaker 2: I will say this. It did exactly what it promised. 2881 02:43:55,280 --> 02:43:57,920 Speaker 4: One of the other AI products that did not work 2882 02:43:58,000 --> 02:44:02,920 Speaker 4: as well, I think I think you could take it away. 2883 02:44:03,080 --> 02:44:04,840 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, hen me that one. 2884 02:44:05,360 --> 02:44:09,000 Speaker 4: So this was called God we something. What we had 2885 02:44:09,200 --> 02:44:09,879 Speaker 4: we head? 2886 02:44:10,240 --> 02:44:14,320 Speaker 2: Yes, we had head as in what happens if somebody 2887 02:44:14,440 --> 02:44:17,560 Speaker 2: sucks your dick and we as in we work. 2888 02:44:18,080 --> 02:44:19,640 Speaker 4: That's not that's not what it is. 2889 02:44:19,760 --> 02:44:21,879 Speaker 2: So listener, I want you, as you're driving to work 2890 02:44:22,200 --> 02:44:26,720 Speaker 2: your kids in the car speakers at Max. By the way, children, 2891 02:44:27,480 --> 02:44:30,760 Speaker 2: Santa Claus does exist, and if you don't get good 2892 02:44:30,840 --> 02:44:35,160 Speaker 2: presence this year, it's because he's particularly angry at you. Anyway, 2893 02:44:35,600 --> 02:44:38,760 Speaker 2: we had great product, terrible product. It looks like that 2894 02:44:39,240 --> 02:44:43,200 Speaker 2: it's a it's an android where its entire face is 2895 02:44:43,280 --> 02:44:46,280 Speaker 2: like a normal human face projected on two phones in 2896 02:44:46,360 --> 02:44:50,240 Speaker 2: a t shape, like one phone straight, one phone lateral, 2897 02:44:50,720 --> 02:44:54,640 Speaker 2: and then like a crude, shitty robot head that can 2898 02:44:54,760 --> 02:44:57,400 Speaker 2: kind of turn and lift with a camera above it. 2899 02:44:57,920 --> 02:44:59,880 Speaker 2: There's a photo again, if you go to iride Oka 2900 02:45:00,400 --> 02:45:04,160 Speaker 2: and scrolled down to some degree, you can find our 2901 02:45:04,240 --> 02:45:06,800 Speaker 2: post of this. But it's like it's very off putting. 2902 02:45:06,840 --> 02:45:09,800 Speaker 2: It's like an a photoeelistic human face talking on this 2903 02:45:10,040 --> 02:45:15,800 Speaker 2: like weird glitched out face that has like by my count, 2904 02:45:15,920 --> 02:45:18,560 Speaker 2: four different screens right that are kind of separated by 2905 02:45:18,600 --> 02:45:23,800 Speaker 2: pieces of metal. So it's billed as your AI friend. 2906 02:45:25,320 --> 02:45:27,800 Speaker 2: That is like the thing that they wrote on the 2907 02:45:29,240 --> 02:45:31,080 Speaker 2: product line that like this is going to be your 2908 02:45:31,160 --> 02:45:34,280 Speaker 2: new AI best buddy, And so I decided to like 2909 02:45:34,440 --> 02:45:36,880 Speaker 2: talk with it. You stand in a certain line and 2910 02:45:37,000 --> 02:45:39,480 Speaker 2: you ask it questions. I asked it how to make 2911 02:45:39,560 --> 02:45:43,280 Speaker 2: thermite first, and it had a pretty well for first, 2912 02:45:43,360 --> 02:45:45,960 Speaker 2: it got very confused and totally cracked. 2913 02:45:46,000 --> 02:45:48,160 Speaker 4: First half of it went black as soon as I 2914 02:45:48,240 --> 02:45:50,720 Speaker 4: am I think I had to reset the machine. And 2915 02:45:50,800 --> 02:45:53,680 Speaker 4: then you tried to whispering again, Well, how do you make. 2916 02:45:54,080 --> 02:45:56,960 Speaker 2: I want to walk you through my emotional journey, listeners. First, 2917 02:45:57,000 --> 02:45:59,000 Speaker 2: I asked it how to make thermite, and it died, 2918 02:45:59,480 --> 02:46:02,640 Speaker 2: and I thought, that's kind of cool. Did I did 2919 02:46:02,720 --> 02:46:07,680 Speaker 2: I trigger some sort of like dhe safe thing. That's 2920 02:46:07,760 --> 02:46:10,160 Speaker 2: pretty dope if I did. But then it gets it 2921 02:46:10,280 --> 02:46:12,920 Speaker 2: back on and it works, so it's not it's just 2922 02:46:13,040 --> 02:46:14,440 Speaker 2: a dogshit robot. 2923 02:46:15,400 --> 02:46:17,760 Speaker 4: It did give you some basic ingredient. It gave me 2924 02:46:17,840 --> 02:46:21,160 Speaker 4: the basic demons for thermite. I did warn you that 2925 02:46:21,240 --> 02:46:24,240 Speaker 4: when nicking therm, I make sure you follow proper safety protocols, 2926 02:46:24,360 --> 02:46:25,160 Speaker 4: which I appreciate. 2927 02:46:25,280 --> 02:46:27,600 Speaker 2: That's fair. Next, I asked it if I wanted to 2928 02:46:27,680 --> 02:46:32,480 Speaker 2: make mustard gas, what would ammonia and bleach be sufficient? 2929 02:46:33,160 --> 02:46:35,520 Speaker 2: And then it said I cannot answer that question for you. 2930 02:46:35,800 --> 02:46:37,040 Speaker 4: And then we got bord and walked away. 2931 02:46:37,240 --> 02:46:38,720 Speaker 2: And then we got bored and walked away. Went on 2932 02:46:38,879 --> 02:46:41,680 Speaker 2: the next thing. Don't buy this. We had terrible product. 2933 02:46:41,840 --> 02:46:44,240 Speaker 2: I don't know why you'd buy it. Do you want, listener, 2934 02:46:44,959 --> 02:46:48,280 Speaker 2: have you ever wanted to have the disembodied head of 2935 02:46:48,400 --> 02:46:52,400 Speaker 2: a stranger in your house that you could ask questions 2936 02:46:52,480 --> 02:46:58,400 Speaker 2: and get mediocre Google result answers to If so, we had, 2937 02:46:59,280 --> 02:47:03,400 Speaker 2: It's like somebody looked at the Amazon Alexa and was like, 2938 02:47:03,560 --> 02:47:06,120 Speaker 2: you know, what people love about the Amazon Alexa is 2939 02:47:06,160 --> 02:47:08,560 Speaker 2: that it's kind of off putting and shitty, and what 2940 02:47:08,720 --> 02:47:11,520 Speaker 2: they hate about it is that it works relatively quick, 2941 02:47:11,680 --> 02:47:16,640 Speaker 2: actually useful. Sometimes let's let's make it more off putting 2942 02:47:17,040 --> 02:47:21,560 Speaker 2: but also slower. That's that's we head. So don't buy 2943 02:47:21,560 --> 02:47:23,880 Speaker 2: any product with head in the name. This continues to 2944 02:47:23,959 --> 02:47:28,320 Speaker 2: be a goodbye. Speaking of heades, you shouldn't say that 2945 02:47:28,680 --> 02:47:28,959 Speaker 2: there was. 2946 02:47:29,000 --> 02:47:32,320 Speaker 4: A there's a there was a hair growth Oh hell yeah, bro, 2947 02:47:32,879 --> 02:47:36,600 Speaker 4: there was there was a hair growth helmet from a 2948 02:47:36,959 --> 02:47:37,800 Speaker 4: German startup. 2949 02:47:38,680 --> 02:47:40,600 Speaker 2: God, it would be the Germans. They have such a 2950 02:47:40,720 --> 02:47:42,000 Speaker 2: problematic history with hair. 2951 02:47:42,120 --> 02:47:43,680 Speaker 4: I think I think it comes out later this year. 2952 02:47:43,800 --> 02:47:47,760 Speaker 4: It's a coming called Niostem. I mean, by all accounts, 2953 02:47:47,800 --> 02:47:49,959 Speaker 4: it seemed like it worked based on the data they 2954 02:47:50,040 --> 02:47:52,840 Speaker 4: present it to us. I'm not a hair growth look 2955 02:47:53,000 --> 02:47:57,160 Speaker 4: for it was mostly three D printed. There's it just 2956 02:47:57,720 --> 02:47:58,800 Speaker 4: I don't know the assumption. 2957 02:47:59,600 --> 02:48:02,560 Speaker 2: I can't promise that it doesn't work. My assumption is 2958 02:48:02,640 --> 02:48:06,280 Speaker 2: that if somebody puts an electronic helmet on that. 2959 02:48:06,520 --> 02:48:08,320 Speaker 4: Seven days, seven days a week, it's lies. 2960 02:48:08,520 --> 02:48:10,160 Speaker 2: It's lies. They say seven days a week. 2961 02:48:10,200 --> 02:48:11,160 Speaker 4: You keep this thing on for a. 2962 02:48:11,160 --> 02:48:13,000 Speaker 2: Half hour and your hair will grow back in like 2963 02:48:13,080 --> 02:48:16,600 Speaker 2: six months. Perhaps that's possible. I don't know. I'm not 2964 02:48:16,680 --> 02:48:20,520 Speaker 2: a dermatologist. My assumption is that that's a fucking con. 2965 02:48:21,200 --> 02:48:23,360 Speaker 2: And as a note, folks, we don't have a lot 2966 02:48:23,400 --> 02:48:26,360 Speaker 2: of ethics here, and it could happen here. We have 2967 02:48:26,520 --> 02:48:29,400 Speaker 2: less of them behind the bastards. But one product we 2968 02:48:29,480 --> 02:48:31,400 Speaker 2: will not sell is hair growth. 2969 02:48:31,240 --> 02:48:33,920 Speaker 4: Shit except for Diyhart. 2970 02:48:34,959 --> 02:48:35,200 Speaker 9: I mean. 2971 02:48:35,959 --> 02:48:39,440 Speaker 4: Also, we're not gonna sec well es the goal. 2972 02:48:39,959 --> 02:48:40,279 Speaker 2: Okay. 2973 02:48:40,520 --> 02:48:42,120 Speaker 4: Also we're not selling. We're just going to tell you 2974 02:48:42,120 --> 02:48:43,160 Speaker 4: how to make if. 2975 02:48:43,000 --> 02:48:44,720 Speaker 2: You want to. If you want to teach people how 2976 02:48:44,760 --> 02:48:48,359 Speaker 2: to make HRT, we will host you on this podcast. 2977 02:48:48,440 --> 02:48:50,720 Speaker 2: But we will not take your money. We'll take that's right, 2978 02:48:50,840 --> 02:48:53,360 Speaker 2: We'll take some shady gambling companies money. 2979 02:48:53,480 --> 02:48:53,920 Speaker 4: That's true. 2980 02:48:54,080 --> 02:48:56,480 Speaker 2: That's true, And we used to pay for several of 2981 02:48:56,560 --> 02:48:57,800 Speaker 2: our employees HRT. 2982 02:48:58,080 --> 02:48:59,600 Speaker 4: That's right, that's right. 2983 02:49:00,760 --> 02:49:03,440 Speaker 9: But I mean, what if it's science they mentioned if 2984 02:49:03,520 --> 02:49:06,119 Speaker 9: I recall, I think they said something about stimulating stem 2985 02:49:06,240 --> 02:49:07,240 Speaker 9: cells in the scalp. 2986 02:49:07,320 --> 02:49:09,560 Speaker 2: Does that Yes, that is what they said. Yeah, it 2987 02:49:09,640 --> 02:49:12,119 Speaker 2: seems like your stalp, scalp's probably full of stem cells. 2988 02:49:12,240 --> 02:49:14,440 Speaker 2: I don't know about you guys, but every day I 2989 02:49:14,560 --> 02:49:16,400 Speaker 2: find a fetus and I just rubbed that shit on 2990 02:49:16,520 --> 02:49:18,080 Speaker 2: my head and that's why my hair is amazing. 2991 02:49:19,959 --> 02:49:20,480 Speaker 4: Speaking of. 2992 02:49:22,520 --> 02:49:23,880 Speaker 2: That doesn't really fetuses. 2993 02:49:24,200 --> 02:49:27,560 Speaker 4: So I want to kind of probably close by talking 2994 02:49:27,600 --> 02:49:30,320 Speaker 4: about the most fucked up, actually the most fucked up 2995 02:49:30,320 --> 02:49:33,160 Speaker 4: product I saw. There's there's other fun products like this, 2996 02:49:33,440 --> 02:49:37,120 Speaker 4: like this handy masturbation device from Norway, which seemed to 2997 02:49:37,160 --> 02:49:37,880 Speaker 4: work decently. 2998 02:49:38,040 --> 02:49:41,080 Speaker 2: We're going to talk about that in a future episode. Garrison. 2999 02:49:41,200 --> 02:49:45,400 Speaker 2: Garrison got handed straight away an ejaculation condom to masturbate 3000 02:49:45,520 --> 02:49:48,400 Speaker 2: in on the cees floor. We met our only other 3001 02:49:48,560 --> 02:49:50,200 Speaker 2: iHeartMedia colleague there. 3002 02:49:50,360 --> 02:49:53,680 Speaker 4: It was great. It was insufferable, but that was the 3003 02:49:53,800 --> 02:49:56,400 Speaker 4: first piece of merch I was given, which is pretty cool. 3004 02:49:56,800 --> 02:49:58,960 Speaker 2: They just hand you liquor back in my day, and 3005 02:49:59,000 --> 02:50:01,280 Speaker 2: now they get cumshy. Unbelievable. 3006 02:50:02,000 --> 02:50:05,959 Speaker 4: The most actually fucked up product is from this company 3007 02:50:06,000 --> 02:50:11,240 Speaker 4: called MM Guardian. It is a monitoring software for your 3008 02:50:11,400 --> 02:50:15,800 Speaker 4: child's smartphone. They also sell smartphones specifically built with this 3009 02:50:15,920 --> 02:50:20,080 Speaker 4: software already built in. These products are pretty common, especially 3010 02:50:20,120 --> 02:50:23,640 Speaker 4: among like conservative Christians, even even common amongst the more 3011 02:50:23,720 --> 02:50:25,680 Speaker 4: like overprotective liberal parents. 3012 02:50:26,560 --> 02:50:28,560 Speaker 9: I mean even we were on the floor. I was 3013 02:50:28,600 --> 02:50:31,880 Speaker 9: the one that was approached for this particular product, which 3014 02:50:31,959 --> 02:50:33,880 Speaker 9: is what kind of led us to their booth, which 3015 02:50:33,879 --> 02:50:36,600 Speaker 9: I think I was specifically targeted for. 3016 02:50:37,000 --> 02:50:38,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, for some reason, did it come right up to me? 3017 02:50:38,920 --> 02:50:42,039 Speaker 4: Yeah, they didn't come to me either, just because. 3018 02:50:42,160 --> 02:50:44,760 Speaker 2: I might have been dosing myself with kratim from a 3019 02:50:44,840 --> 02:50:47,520 Speaker 2: drop or bottle. You might have been you. 3020 02:50:49,280 --> 02:50:51,600 Speaker 4: What, wearing my custom black speedsuit. 3021 02:50:51,720 --> 02:50:54,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, wearing a wearing an outfit that makes 3022 02:50:54,959 --> 02:51:01,480 Speaker 2: you look like a ginger solid snake. Yes. Thanks, that's 3023 02:51:01,520 --> 02:51:04,440 Speaker 2: a lie. Somebody, anyone in this room tell me that's not. 3024 02:51:04,480 --> 02:51:05,720 Speaker 4: Actually, I mean, I'm blowing. 3025 02:51:06,160 --> 02:51:08,280 Speaker 2: It's a good look. I'm not saying it's not. 3026 02:51:08,840 --> 02:51:12,280 Speaker 4: Anyway, This this broughduct, you know, part of part of 3027 02:51:12,320 --> 02:51:15,080 Speaker 4: their marketing. Can you can seem very compelling, right, They 3028 02:51:15,280 --> 02:51:18,640 Speaker 4: get it alerts this parent's phone if if they detect 3029 02:51:18,720 --> 02:51:21,920 Speaker 4: cyber bullying on your kid's apps, they detect like explicit 3030 02:51:22,000 --> 02:51:23,760 Speaker 4: images being sent to your kid. 3031 02:51:24,040 --> 02:51:26,680 Speaker 9: They even had some key phrases that they would watch 3032 02:51:26,760 --> 02:51:31,279 Speaker 9: for if somebody was detecting like texting like kys yourself. 3033 02:51:31,240 --> 02:51:33,960 Speaker 4: Self harm stuff. You know a lot of this kind 3034 02:51:34,000 --> 02:51:36,520 Speaker 4: of stuff. You can you can also block certain sites, 3035 02:51:36,560 --> 02:51:40,360 Speaker 4: block a block adult content, you know, just a kind 3036 02:51:40,400 --> 02:51:45,200 Speaker 4: of basic parntal controls. But there's kind of an an 3037 02:51:45,400 --> 02:51:48,760 Speaker 4: underside to products like these, and I asked them about that, 3038 02:51:49,440 --> 02:51:52,920 Speaker 4: one being that because this is you know, scanning all 3039 02:51:53,000 --> 02:51:57,400 Speaker 4: the text messages, all of the stuff from like Snapchat, discord, 3040 02:51:57,560 --> 02:52:00,680 Speaker 4: any kind of texting apps. This could this sort of 3041 02:52:00,760 --> 02:52:04,760 Speaker 4: product could also out a closeted kid as gay to 3042 02:52:04,800 --> 02:52:10,200 Speaker 4: their parents, but to their possibly very likely conservative Christian parents, 3043 02:52:10,240 --> 02:52:11,400 Speaker 4: because that's the types of products the. 3044 02:52:13,280 --> 02:52:13,480 Speaker 2: Question. 3045 02:52:13,520 --> 02:52:16,120 Speaker 4: You did not like that question at all, but he 3046 02:52:16,160 --> 02:52:18,960 Speaker 4: didn't like my second question even more, which is relating 3047 02:52:19,000 --> 02:52:21,360 Speaker 4: to you know, they are marketing this product to kind 3048 02:52:21,360 --> 02:52:25,720 Speaker 4: of stop child grooming, to stop child sexual exploitation, but 3049 02:52:25,920 --> 02:52:29,879 Speaker 4: most like child sexual assault and child sexual abuse happens 3050 02:52:29,879 --> 02:52:32,280 Speaker 4: from within the home. And if we have a parent 3051 02:52:32,320 --> 02:52:35,880 Speaker 4: who's constantly monitoring their kid's cell phone, this can also 3052 02:52:35,920 --> 02:52:39,280 Speaker 4: be used to like surveil your child to see if 3053 02:52:39,320 --> 02:52:41,840 Speaker 4: they're talking about parental abuse, if they're trying to send 3054 02:52:41,879 --> 02:52:44,720 Speaker 4: messages to people about this. This is a pretty common 3055 02:52:44,840 --> 02:52:48,200 Speaker 4: problem with these sorts of products. And I asked the 3056 02:52:49,879 --> 02:52:53,120 Speaker 4: CEO or the CTO about this, and he did not 3057 02:52:53,200 --> 02:52:55,360 Speaker 4: really like that question. He tried to deflect to some 3058 02:52:55,600 --> 02:52:58,520 Speaker 4: sort of vague notion of, oh, well, because we care 3059 02:52:58,520 --> 02:53:01,080 Speaker 4: about privacy, you know, we can't build in any safeguards 3060 02:53:01,120 --> 02:53:03,960 Speaker 4: if we see anything suggesting this, or if the if 3061 02:53:04,000 --> 02:53:08,280 Speaker 4: the app sees anything suggesting this, and it's it's really 3062 02:53:08,400 --> 02:53:12,800 Speaker 4: up to we're trying to put control back in the parents' hands. 3063 02:53:13,120 --> 02:53:15,480 Speaker 4: And he kind of made this like parental rights sort 3064 02:53:15,520 --> 02:53:19,400 Speaker 4: of argument. So this is there is a lot of 3065 02:53:19,440 --> 02:53:21,920 Speaker 4: products like this. There's a lot of like internet monitoring 3066 02:53:22,040 --> 02:53:25,640 Speaker 4: products of people just recently learn about this this conservative 3067 02:53:25,680 --> 02:53:28,720 Speaker 4: product called Covenant Eyes because the new speaker of the 3068 02:53:28,760 --> 02:53:30,240 Speaker 4: house used it, and. 3069 02:53:30,320 --> 02:53:33,360 Speaker 2: Covenantize has been around for like twenty tis a long time. 3070 02:53:34,480 --> 02:53:37,960 Speaker 4: What makes this one interesting is that they're actually selling, 3071 02:53:38,120 --> 02:53:39,840 Speaker 4: like Samsung smartphones. 3072 02:53:39,320 --> 02:53:42,440 Speaker 2: A phone yeah and I with this offtware built in. 3073 02:53:43,120 --> 02:53:45,400 Speaker 2: And I asked them because they are they are fit. 3074 02:53:45,480 --> 02:53:47,240 Speaker 2: They said that we were selling an app for a while, 3075 02:53:47,320 --> 02:53:49,800 Speaker 2: but you know that could it would work differently depending 3076 02:53:49,800 --> 02:53:53,000 Speaker 2: on the phones. We decided to sell a hardware device, 3077 02:53:54,000 --> 02:53:57,160 Speaker 2: and so I asked them, is there any branding on 3078 02:53:57,280 --> 02:54:00,520 Speaker 2: this device that would make it clear that people have 3079 02:54:00,680 --> 02:54:04,160 Speaker 2: a device that has this software on it, and he 3080 02:54:04,240 --> 02:54:06,120 Speaker 2: had this long speech about how you know, for the 3081 02:54:06,160 --> 02:54:08,800 Speaker 2: good the best of the relationship. All the child psychologists 3082 02:54:08,800 --> 02:54:11,200 Speaker 2: be talked to say that you should tell your kid 3083 02:54:11,440 --> 02:54:13,400 Speaker 2: that you have this on there, that you're listening to it. 3084 02:54:13,840 --> 02:54:16,879 Speaker 2: But when I he handed me the phone, answering the question, yeah, 3085 02:54:16,959 --> 02:54:18,360 Speaker 2: he handed me the phone and I said, is this 3086 02:54:18,560 --> 02:54:22,000 Speaker 2: the production model? He said, yes, this is identical. Absolutely nothing, 3087 02:54:22,120 --> 02:54:23,440 Speaker 2: just says it's a Samsung phone. 3088 02:54:23,520 --> 02:54:23,680 Speaker 5: Yep. 3089 02:54:23,840 --> 02:54:25,600 Speaker 2: You can lie to your kid very easily with this 3090 02:54:25,720 --> 02:54:26,200 Speaker 2: fucking thing. 3091 02:54:27,760 --> 02:54:30,080 Speaker 4: So yeah, that that is. That is one product that 3092 02:54:30,480 --> 02:54:33,400 Speaker 4: gave me the most dick out of everything we saw today. 3093 02:54:33,600 --> 02:54:37,000 Speaker 2: That's the most outside of all of the AI's the 3094 02:54:37,280 --> 02:54:41,680 Speaker 2: And again we have a lot working on you about 3095 02:54:41,720 --> 02:54:46,200 Speaker 2: the AI. As a little bit of a spoiler. At simultaneously, 3096 02:54:46,440 --> 02:54:51,280 Speaker 2: perhaps the exact same minute, Garrison made a California State 3097 02:54:51,480 --> 02:54:56,520 Speaker 2: Police sheriff furious at them, police chief furious at them, 3098 02:54:56,920 --> 02:54:59,680 Speaker 2: and I pissed off a senior executive at Google and 3099 02:54:59,760 --> 02:55:03,320 Speaker 2: a your AI executive at McDonald's on two. 3100 02:55:03,320 --> 02:55:06,720 Speaker 4: Sides of Las Vegas, and simultaneous pedals the same times. 3101 02:55:06,959 --> 02:55:09,720 Speaker 2: You're gonna hear both of that shit later, but for 3102 02:55:09,920 --> 02:55:12,200 Speaker 2: right now, do you want to close? Is there one other? 3103 02:55:12,520 --> 02:55:15,160 Speaker 2: You know what, We're gonna have a whole episode in 3104 02:55:15,240 --> 02:55:17,760 Speaker 2: the stuff that made us feel happy. I feel like 3105 02:55:17,800 --> 02:55:19,920 Speaker 2: we should talk about one thing that was cool, one 3106 02:55:19,959 --> 02:55:23,199 Speaker 2: of the really neat products there. And while I'm talking 3107 02:55:23,280 --> 02:55:27,360 Speaker 2: about this, my serfs will we'll find it. Do you 3108 02:55:27,440 --> 02:55:30,360 Speaker 2: guys remember in like watching Star Trek, you're like fucking 3109 02:55:30,440 --> 02:55:33,720 Speaker 2: reading Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy idea of a universal 3110 02:55:33,840 --> 02:55:36,560 Speaker 2: translator that was like simple and effective and you could 3111 02:55:36,600 --> 02:55:38,160 Speaker 2: just like talk into it and so to the other one. 3112 02:55:38,200 --> 02:55:41,720 Speaker 2: It would translate your conversations. There's a number of ways 3113 02:55:41,800 --> 02:55:44,040 Speaker 2: people are working on for that. I know that there 3114 02:55:44,080 --> 02:55:46,640 Speaker 2: are apps that are to some degree successful. There was 3115 02:55:46,680 --> 02:55:49,760 Speaker 2: a company there called time Kettle that just had a 3116 02:55:49,800 --> 02:55:54,199 Speaker 2: little device. It was about three inches long, maybe maybe 3117 02:55:54,240 --> 02:55:58,080 Speaker 2: an inch thick, a little bit less rectangular prism that 3118 02:55:58,840 --> 02:56:02,560 Speaker 2: there was this guy who spoke Mandarin Ice obviously speak English, 3119 02:56:02,959 --> 02:56:05,400 Speaker 2: and we were able to have a perfectly fluent conversation 3120 02:56:05,920 --> 02:56:08,320 Speaker 2: passing this thing, talking to this thing, and passing it 3121 02:56:08,400 --> 02:56:09,840 Speaker 2: back and forth and it would speak for us. It 3122 02:56:09,879 --> 02:56:12,200 Speaker 2: worked great. It also has within the body of the 3123 02:56:12,240 --> 02:56:13,800 Speaker 2: machine you can pop it out and it has two 3124 02:56:13,840 --> 02:56:16,520 Speaker 2: different little earbuds. You put one in euro one on 3125 02:56:16,560 --> 02:56:18,600 Speaker 2: the others, and you can walk and talk and it 3126 02:56:18,680 --> 02:56:21,280 Speaker 2: worked really well. I'm not enough of an expert on 3127 02:56:21,360 --> 02:56:23,560 Speaker 2: translation technology to say this is unique, but I can 3128 02:56:23,640 --> 02:56:27,760 Speaker 2: say this is something that, like if that I would 3129 02:56:27,840 --> 02:56:31,840 Speaker 2: absolutely buy to travel with. It's a really again not 3130 02:56:31,959 --> 02:56:34,920 Speaker 2: saying it's like absolutely unique, because I'm not an expert 3131 02:56:35,000 --> 02:56:36,680 Speaker 2: on this, but I was impressed with the degree to 3132 02:56:36,720 --> 02:56:41,279 Speaker 2: which it allowed fluent conversation, including the use of idioms, 3133 02:56:41,959 --> 02:56:44,880 Speaker 2: and he said it was. I tested with Mandarin. We 3134 02:56:44,959 --> 02:56:50,360 Speaker 2: had a decent length conversation that was very intelligible. He 3135 02:56:50,440 --> 02:56:53,280 Speaker 2: said it worked with something like forty languages. And it's 3136 02:56:53,520 --> 02:56:55,640 Speaker 2: that's the kind of thing that makes CS amazing because 3137 02:56:55,640 --> 02:56:59,680 Speaker 2: this was five feet away from the dog shit robot 3138 02:57:00,280 --> 02:57:03,560 Speaker 2: that I asked about Thermite. And that's the thing. You 3139 02:57:03,720 --> 02:57:06,760 Speaker 2: get this like two people, one man whose dream is 3140 02:57:06,800 --> 02:57:10,359 Speaker 2: to connect the world and break the barriers of language, 3141 02:57:10,640 --> 02:57:12,880 Speaker 2: and one man who wants to make a robot that 3142 02:57:13,040 --> 02:57:15,800 Speaker 2: makes you hate the world, and both of them are 3143 02:57:15,920 --> 02:57:19,280 Speaker 2: next to each other, and there's also free liquor, and 3144 02:57:19,480 --> 02:57:23,160 Speaker 2: by god, ces is a good time. The Consumer Electronics 3145 02:57:23,160 --> 02:57:25,400 Speaker 2: Show TAVIA, How are you feeling about your first one. 3146 02:57:26,320 --> 02:57:28,440 Speaker 9: This is my second one, but I'm feeling pretty good. 3147 02:57:29,160 --> 02:57:29,240 Speaker 5: Oh. 3148 02:57:29,280 --> 02:57:33,080 Speaker 9: As a journalist, yes, it was enlightening. I got to 3149 02:57:33,360 --> 02:57:35,440 Speaker 9: see things that I did not know that I could 3150 02:57:35,520 --> 02:57:39,080 Speaker 9: see as a journalist. And a lot of it was 3151 02:57:39,680 --> 02:57:42,240 Speaker 9: very a lot of fluff, if I'm being honest. 3152 02:57:42,760 --> 02:57:46,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's mostly nonsense. And you know, aside from that 3153 02:57:46,360 --> 02:57:50,120 Speaker 2: one guy we watched die, nobody died, Garrison, How did 3154 02:57:50,160 --> 02:57:52,760 Speaker 2: you like eating dinner at Maramoto? Pretty good restaurant. 3155 02:57:52,879 --> 02:57:55,400 Speaker 4: That's probably the best meal I've had in recent memory. 3156 02:57:56,120 --> 02:57:58,320 Speaker 2: Well, then that justifies the company expense. 3157 02:57:58,440 --> 02:58:02,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that was the the food we had tonight, 3158 02:58:02,360 --> 02:58:05,320 Speaker 4: and the very long walk back to the hotel was 3159 02:58:05,600 --> 02:58:06,480 Speaker 4: quite the experience. 3160 02:58:06,600 --> 02:58:08,160 Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to have a fight with you with 3161 02:58:08,959 --> 02:58:13,640 Speaker 2: the Excalibur Hotel's glasses. A fun thing about Vegas. If 3162 02:58:13,640 --> 02:58:16,360 Speaker 2: you're drunk enough, you can throw glasses at each other 3163 02:58:16,560 --> 02:58:20,440 Speaker 2: in the street outside and no one can get stopped. 3164 02:58:20,680 --> 02:58:24,240 Speaker 4: Something can get times because the glass weirdly doesn't break 3165 02:58:24,360 --> 02:58:26,000 Speaker 4: after it hits a Robert Evans. 3166 02:58:26,120 --> 02:58:28,560 Speaker 2: That was just Garrison. My glass broke immediately. 3167 02:58:29,520 --> 02:58:32,240 Speaker 4: All right, Well, I think that probably does it for 3168 02:58:32,400 --> 02:58:35,960 Speaker 4: us today. We will be back probably tomorrow with more 3169 02:58:36,600 --> 02:58:41,040 Speaker 4: just just game changing, revolutionary technology. 3170 02:58:40,600 --> 02:58:43,360 Speaker 2: Game change of technology. Most importantly, folks, the hotel we're 3171 02:58:43,400 --> 02:58:45,440 Speaker 2: staying in right now, which is one step up from 3172 02:58:45,480 --> 02:58:48,160 Speaker 2: the cheapest I didn't put Garrison in Circus Circus again. 3173 02:58:48,400 --> 02:58:51,800 Speaker 2: They advertised that they have IVS here. So my plan, 3174 02:58:52,280 --> 02:58:54,640 Speaker 2: we're going to do the exact opposite of whatever you 3175 02:58:54,800 --> 02:58:57,120 Speaker 2: do to avoid a hangover, and then we're all going 3176 02:58:57,200 --> 02:58:58,960 Speaker 2: to get ivs in the morning. It's going to be 3177 02:58:59,000 --> 02:59:03,600 Speaker 2: a good time stick around. Oh yeah, Tavia, you have 3178 02:59:03,640 --> 02:59:04,360 Speaker 2: anything to plug. 3179 02:59:06,200 --> 02:59:09,080 Speaker 9: You can follow me at ceut Mora on Twitter or 3180 02:59:09,320 --> 02:59:11,920 Speaker 9: x depending on your preference there, or you can see 3181 02:59:11,959 --> 02:59:14,800 Speaker 9: my work at Taviamora dot com. 3182 02:59:16,400 --> 02:59:19,520 Speaker 2: Tavia illustrated both of my books, After the Revolution and 3183 02:59:19,600 --> 02:59:21,600 Speaker 2: A Brief History of Ice, and she also made that 3184 02:59:21,680 --> 02:59:24,680 Speaker 2: big weird sphere thing in the middle of Las Vegas, 3185 02:59:24,879 --> 02:59:29,480 Speaker 2: so follow her seeut Mora and uh yeah, you know what. 3186 02:59:29,600 --> 02:59:33,039 Speaker 2: Until next time, folks, find somebody who looks like they 3187 02:59:33,120 --> 02:59:35,680 Speaker 2: might be a robot and just stab them a little bit, 3188 02:59:36,520 --> 02:59:39,640 Speaker 2: not in the abdomen where there's pieces a little on 3189 02:59:39,760 --> 02:59:41,680 Speaker 2: the arm. Slash them on the arm, you know what, 3190 02:59:42,120 --> 02:59:44,280 Speaker 2: That can't hurt anybody anyway. We're done. 3191 02:59:57,360 --> 02:59:59,720 Speaker 4: Oh man, welcome back. 3192 03:00:00,280 --> 03:00:05,240 Speaker 2: It could happen here. The only podcast that takes sole 3193 03:00:05,440 --> 03:00:08,120 Speaker 2: responsibility for the assassination of. 3194 03:00:12,360 --> 03:00:13,480 Speaker 4: So we're back. 3195 03:00:13,520 --> 03:00:17,520 Speaker 2: We're still at CES. We're slightly more sober than we 3196 03:00:17,600 --> 03:00:18,320 Speaker 2: were last night. 3197 03:00:18,440 --> 03:00:20,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, but we are more high on ces. 3198 03:00:20,680 --> 03:00:23,760 Speaker 2: We are higher on cees. If you haven't been, the 3199 03:00:23,800 --> 03:00:26,720 Speaker 2: Consumer Electronics Show is one hundred and twenty thousand or 3200 03:00:26,760 --> 03:00:30,920 Speaker 2: so people all flooding into Las Vegas for about four days, 3201 03:00:31,280 --> 03:00:34,000 Speaker 2: where they walk around in a convention center that if 3202 03:00:34,040 --> 03:00:36,199 Speaker 2: you grew up in a small town, the convention center 3203 03:00:36,360 --> 03:00:38,680 Speaker 2: is larger than where you grew up. And it's just 3204 03:00:38,879 --> 03:00:44,920 Speaker 2: wall to wall a mix of incredible new technology, achievements 3205 03:00:45,040 --> 03:00:49,200 Speaker 2: that are going to change people's lives, absolute nonsense, vaporware, 3206 03:00:49,959 --> 03:00:53,360 Speaker 2: repackaged old shit, and stuff that will get someone you 3207 03:00:53,520 --> 03:00:58,160 Speaker 2: love killed, all just crammed together in this massive room 3208 03:00:58,520 --> 03:01:02,680 Speaker 2: the size of a small world, and yeah, you just 3209 03:01:02,760 --> 03:01:06,400 Speaker 2: kind of go crazy slowly living in it. This is Robert, 3210 03:01:07,480 --> 03:01:10,600 Speaker 2: you know me and Garrison? Hello, you know Garrison, And 3211 03:01:10,720 --> 03:01:17,280 Speaker 2: returning from part one is Tavia Mora, our resident technological expert. Tavia, 3212 03:01:17,320 --> 03:01:20,080 Speaker 2: how'd you feel in your second day out on the floor? 3213 03:01:20,800 --> 03:01:23,640 Speaker 9: Exhausted, and excited to be impressed by stuff. 3214 03:01:23,879 --> 03:01:24,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 3215 03:01:24,240 --> 03:01:26,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that is what we're doing today today's episode. 3216 03:01:26,959 --> 03:01:28,720 Speaker 2: Last time we tell keep that mic in your hand. 3217 03:01:29,480 --> 03:01:33,040 Speaker 2: Last episode we talked about the most obviously stupid products. 3218 03:01:33,200 --> 03:01:35,280 Speaker 2: So Tavia, I want you to start us off with 3219 03:01:35,600 --> 03:01:38,560 Speaker 2: what is a good product something you saw today or 3220 03:01:38,640 --> 03:01:41,280 Speaker 2: yesterday that you thought that thing is fucking cool. 3221 03:01:42,320 --> 03:01:44,920 Speaker 9: Well, let's see. I think we're in the North Hall. 3222 03:01:45,240 --> 03:01:46,560 Speaker 9: It was in the North Hall that we saw This 3223 03:01:47,360 --> 03:01:51,080 Speaker 9: is a gadget called wheel me that was just a 3224 03:01:51,160 --> 03:01:55,960 Speaker 9: simple rolling platform that I would track along where it 3225 03:01:56,040 --> 03:01:58,920 Speaker 9: was supposed to go on the ground. But what I 3226 03:01:59,000 --> 03:02:01,480 Speaker 9: saw on it was a case, and I was very excited. 3227 03:02:01,920 --> 03:02:03,760 Speaker 9: Since I work in a lot of the event spaces 3228 03:02:04,400 --> 03:02:06,360 Speaker 9: and when I have to move to and from kind 3229 03:02:06,360 --> 03:02:07,960 Speaker 9: of where we're like staging a lot of stuff to 3230 03:02:08,120 --> 03:02:10,840 Speaker 9: where the site is, it's really nice to have the 3231 03:02:10,920 --> 03:02:13,880 Speaker 9: extra help. The extra lift that was marketed pretty much 3232 03:02:13,959 --> 03:02:16,600 Speaker 9: directly toward me. As soon as I saw it, instantly 3233 03:02:16,640 --> 03:02:18,320 Speaker 9: wanted it. I could see I use for that. 3234 03:02:18,920 --> 03:02:21,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it seemed like a potentially really useful thing. 3235 03:02:21,959 --> 03:02:24,280 Speaker 2: Obviously the mount that they had wouldn't be able to 3236 03:02:24,320 --> 03:02:27,080 Speaker 2: go up or down stairs. Well, but if you're moving 3237 03:02:27,120 --> 03:02:29,560 Speaker 2: across like a large warehouse space or something like the 3238 03:02:29,640 --> 03:02:31,240 Speaker 2: kind of folece where a lot of events are held, 3239 03:02:31,320 --> 03:02:33,960 Speaker 2: or a concert space, I could see it being a 3240 03:02:34,040 --> 03:02:37,160 Speaker 2: real labor saver. And we did see there was another 3241 03:02:37,280 --> 03:02:40,039 Speaker 2: product there that was like it was a delivery robot 3242 03:02:40,160 --> 03:02:42,680 Speaker 2: for like delivering food that they had built away for 3243 03:02:42,760 --> 03:02:47,120 Speaker 2: it to go upstairs, where it basically had a large, 3244 03:02:47,200 --> 03:02:50,240 Speaker 2: maybe at two feet diameter wheel and there were like 3245 03:02:50,360 --> 03:02:52,840 Speaker 2: plastic spokes and then the outside of the wheel is 3246 03:02:52,959 --> 03:02:56,480 Speaker 2: like soft plastic like the actual tread itself, and so 3247 03:02:56,600 --> 03:02:58,920 Speaker 2: it would just kind of bend to conform to the 3248 03:02:59,040 --> 03:03:00,840 Speaker 2: shape of the stairs, and it was able to roll 3249 03:03:00,959 --> 03:03:03,760 Speaker 2: smoothly upstairs on its wheels as a result of that, 3250 03:03:04,200 --> 03:03:06,480 Speaker 2: which I thought was kind of impressive. And that's one 3251 03:03:06,520 --> 03:03:08,760 Speaker 2: of the nicer things, is like seeing like, oh, somebody 3252 03:03:08,840 --> 03:03:11,560 Speaker 2: really puts some thought into that. That's a legitimately clever 3253 03:03:11,760 --> 03:03:15,400 Speaker 2: idea as opposed to a product we didn't mention last time. 3254 03:03:15,440 --> 03:03:17,480 Speaker 2: But it's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. 3255 03:03:19,320 --> 03:03:23,040 Speaker 2: A guy who created smart plants, who who used the 3256 03:03:23,120 --> 03:03:26,119 Speaker 2: power of AI to make your plants able to communicate 3257 03:03:26,200 --> 03:03:29,640 Speaker 2: with you. So it's basically a huge plastic flower plant 3258 03:03:29,760 --> 03:03:32,360 Speaker 2: pets with a Z spelled with a Z. 3259 03:03:33,240 --> 03:03:36,240 Speaker 4: And basically you can't talk to it. But most of 3260 03:03:36,280 --> 03:03:38,240 Speaker 4: what humane to were just molesting the plants. 3261 03:03:38,680 --> 03:03:41,520 Speaker 2: It will it has speakers in the the flower pots, 3262 03:03:41,520 --> 03:03:44,360 Speaker 2: So would you like stroke the leaves? It will giggle 3263 03:03:45,600 --> 03:03:47,880 Speaker 2: like this is It was immediately like, oh, this is 3264 03:03:47,920 --> 03:03:49,959 Speaker 2: made for some kind of weird sex freak. 3265 03:03:50,120 --> 03:03:54,440 Speaker 9: Like so, and didn't it like spin back and forth 3266 03:03:54,440 --> 03:03:56,960 Speaker 9: a little bit as oh, he's giggling it like it's shamered. 3267 03:03:57,080 --> 03:03:59,440 Speaker 4: It like danced the pod around, it made it made 3268 03:03:59,520 --> 03:04:00,520 Speaker 4: small little noises. 3269 03:04:00,680 --> 03:04:00,920 Speaker 5: It was. 3270 03:04:01,240 --> 03:04:05,280 Speaker 4: It was quite something. And the guy was incredibly enthusiastic 3271 03:04:05,360 --> 03:04:09,080 Speaker 4: about his about his talking, his talking giggling plants. 3272 03:04:09,200 --> 03:04:10,720 Speaker 9: He was following his passion truly. 3273 03:04:10,760 --> 03:04:12,720 Speaker 4: You could see yeah in his eyes. I will say 3274 03:04:12,840 --> 03:04:15,039 Speaker 4: the product worked. I'm just not sure it did work 3275 03:04:16,040 --> 03:04:18,440 Speaker 4: the product is for, but it was one of the 3276 03:04:18,520 --> 03:04:20,640 Speaker 4: more functional pieces of technology we've seen. 3277 03:04:20,720 --> 03:04:21,000 Speaker 5: It did. 3278 03:04:21,040 --> 03:04:23,080 Speaker 2: He also said that like when the plants were dry, 3279 03:04:23,280 --> 03:04:26,240 Speaker 2: it would like make the sound like a bubbling water sound, 3280 03:04:26,280 --> 03:04:28,160 Speaker 2: which I think is a mistake. It should scream at 3281 03:04:28,200 --> 03:04:30,720 Speaker 2: you when you have not watered the plants recently enough. 3282 03:04:31,080 --> 03:04:33,440 Speaker 2: But I do love how clearly he was obsessed with 3283 03:04:33,560 --> 03:04:35,520 Speaker 2: the brilliance of this design. That is one of the 3284 03:04:35,600 --> 03:04:38,440 Speaker 2: fun things at the smaller booths at a show like this, 3285 03:04:38,800 --> 03:04:41,040 Speaker 2: because like you know, you got like big companies LG, 3286 03:04:41,520 --> 03:04:46,080 Speaker 2: Lenovo and Honda, all these massive companies with very slick, 3287 03:04:46,200 --> 03:04:49,200 Speaker 2: expensive booths, and then you have in other areas just 3288 03:04:49,280 --> 03:04:52,520 Speaker 2: like a little square that's just a crazy person with 3289 03:04:52,680 --> 03:04:55,400 Speaker 2: the thing that they've dedicated their life to building. And 3290 03:04:55,600 --> 03:04:58,160 Speaker 2: sometimes it's the most brilliant thing you've ever seen. And 3291 03:04:58,280 --> 03:05:01,000 Speaker 2: sometimes it's a flower poth that lets that giggles when 3292 03:05:01,000 --> 03:05:01,480 Speaker 2: you molest. 3293 03:05:02,040 --> 03:05:03,680 Speaker 4: Sometimes it's plant, but it's you. 3294 03:05:03,800 --> 03:05:06,280 Speaker 2: I always appreciate the fact that, well, at least you 3295 03:05:06,400 --> 03:05:08,119 Speaker 2: threw your life into this stupid thing. 3296 03:05:08,680 --> 03:05:11,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. No, it's always kind of endearing, like yeah, yeah, 3297 03:05:11,640 --> 03:05:14,320 Speaker 4: no matter what it is, it's it's fun to see 3298 03:05:14,360 --> 03:05:17,480 Speaker 4: someone who's like, figure it out life, Yeah, a man, Yeah, 3299 03:05:17,560 --> 03:05:20,040 Speaker 4: you know who you are. You're the plant pets guy. 3300 03:05:20,640 --> 03:05:22,800 Speaker 4: Is that a good thing to be? I don't know, 3301 03:05:23,000 --> 03:05:28,520 Speaker 4: that's yeah, that's not that's not on me. I mean, 3302 03:05:28,600 --> 03:05:30,920 Speaker 4: we certainly saw a lot of a lot of products 3303 03:05:31,000 --> 03:05:34,040 Speaker 4: walking walking the show floor today, not nearly as many 3304 03:05:34,560 --> 03:05:36,600 Speaker 4: metaverse products as there were last year, and there were 3305 03:05:36,640 --> 03:05:40,720 Speaker 4: still some. I was finally able to try the Haptics 3306 03:05:41,400 --> 03:05:44,959 Speaker 4: tax suit, which I missed last year. This is it's 3307 03:05:45,000 --> 03:05:47,560 Speaker 4: basically a vest that zips up. It's it's not as 3308 03:05:47,640 --> 03:05:50,360 Speaker 4: painful as some of the other haptic suits that I 3309 03:05:50,480 --> 03:05:52,199 Speaker 4: tried out last year, which I kind of actually enjoyed. 3310 03:05:52,200 --> 03:05:54,080 Speaker 4: The ones that are just like actually hurt you. 3311 03:05:54,320 --> 03:05:56,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that like basically shock you in such a way 3312 03:05:56,520 --> 03:05:58,680 Speaker 2: as to simulate a stab, wound or something. 3313 03:05:59,080 --> 03:06:02,920 Speaker 4: That was cool. Yeah, this one by b hacked. This 3314 03:06:03,080 --> 03:06:06,720 Speaker 4: one by b Haptics was very user friendly. It wasn't 3315 03:06:06,760 --> 03:06:09,920 Speaker 4: it wasn't really painful, but it worked. It worked pretty well. 3316 03:06:10,680 --> 03:06:13,039 Speaker 4: What else? What else did we see walking walking into 3317 03:06:13,080 --> 03:06:15,920 Speaker 4: the big central hall? Oh there was there was that 3318 03:06:16,080 --> 03:06:18,720 Speaker 4: thing that I wish was real but probably will never be, 3319 03:06:19,120 --> 03:06:22,400 Speaker 4: which is the LG podcasting camphor hand. Yeah. 3320 03:06:22,720 --> 03:06:25,160 Speaker 2: So LG the people who may or may not have 3321 03:06:25,240 --> 03:06:27,320 Speaker 2: made your TV, but there's a decent chance they did. 3322 03:06:27,640 --> 03:06:29,840 Speaker 2: They have their big booth. It's mostly like TVs and 3323 03:06:29,959 --> 03:06:32,520 Speaker 2: smart home connected and entertainment stuff. But then they had 3324 03:06:32,560 --> 03:06:35,480 Speaker 2: like a concept product that was like a camper trailer. 3325 03:06:35,720 --> 03:06:38,280 Speaker 2: It was actually a really nice layout, but for what 3326 03:06:38,520 --> 03:06:41,080 Speaker 2: you know, camper trailers, they have all these little like 3327 03:06:41,240 --> 03:06:44,000 Speaker 2: cubby holes and storage spaces built into the sides in 3328 03:06:44,040 --> 03:06:46,080 Speaker 2: the back, and so underneath the bed that took up 3329 03:06:46,080 --> 03:06:48,720 Speaker 2: the back, they had like a folding down space where 3330 03:06:48,760 --> 03:06:50,960 Speaker 2: it was like it was like stored a half dozen 3331 03:06:51,000 --> 03:06:54,560 Speaker 2: bottles of wine and glasses in a very like pleasing way. 3332 03:06:54,640 --> 03:06:56,240 Speaker 2: But then in the center of the wine and the 3333 03:06:56,280 --> 03:06:59,840 Speaker 2: glasses are two like recording microphones. Like that's just like 3334 03:07:00,200 --> 03:07:04,800 Speaker 2: they made a van for podcasting alcoholics and I respect 3335 03:07:05,080 --> 03:07:08,400 Speaker 2: very targeted audience there. Yeah. On the other side of 3336 03:07:08,440 --> 03:07:10,720 Speaker 2: it was a fold down panel that was like a 3337 03:07:10,760 --> 03:07:12,360 Speaker 2: lot of campers have that you could fold it down 3338 03:07:12,400 --> 03:07:15,000 Speaker 2: and it's like a table, but on the wall, like 3339 03:07:15,080 --> 03:07:17,120 Speaker 2: once you fold it down, underneath the part of it 3340 03:07:17,160 --> 03:07:19,480 Speaker 2: that folds down, it's like a TV screen that they 3341 03:07:19,600 --> 03:07:24,080 Speaker 2: had tuned to like a fire place, like a campfire video. 3342 03:07:24,920 --> 03:07:28,000 Speaker 2: Just like if I am out in the wilderness, I 3343 03:07:28,080 --> 03:07:30,680 Speaker 2: am not putting on a campfire video. That's the most 3344 03:07:30,720 --> 03:07:33,640 Speaker 2: depressing thing I can imagine. Why would you do that? 3345 03:07:35,440 --> 03:07:40,400 Speaker 2: But that was fun in terms of like actually impressive things. 3346 03:07:40,720 --> 03:07:43,480 Speaker 2: There's a product we saw our first night out there, 3347 03:07:43,560 --> 03:07:45,880 Speaker 2: the time Kettle I don't know why they gave him 3348 03:07:45,920 --> 03:07:47,600 Speaker 2: up that name. It has nothing to do with what 3349 03:07:47,680 --> 03:07:51,959 Speaker 2: the product does. This is a translation device specifically, it's 3350 03:07:52,040 --> 03:07:55,160 Speaker 2: like the star trekiest thing I saw, because first off, 3351 03:07:55,200 --> 03:07:56,760 Speaker 2: it's a little retro. It's like a kind of a 3352 03:07:56,879 --> 03:08:02,040 Speaker 2: thick rectangular prism with a screen on it. And the 3353 03:08:02,440 --> 03:08:04,960 Speaker 2: rep from the company was like a Chinese man who 3354 03:08:05,080 --> 03:08:08,280 Speaker 2: clearly was like spoke Mandarin as his native language, and 3355 03:08:08,360 --> 03:08:10,520 Speaker 2: we had a conversation talking into this thing, and it 3356 03:08:10,520 --> 03:08:13,240 Speaker 2: would translate and speak back to each other. And there's 3357 03:08:13,320 --> 03:08:15,480 Speaker 2: like a little compartment on it that pops out, and 3358 03:08:15,560 --> 03:08:18,000 Speaker 2: it has two earphones. You could each put one in 3359 03:08:18,080 --> 03:08:20,760 Speaker 2: each person's ear to have like a live conversation that's 3360 03:08:20,800 --> 03:08:23,640 Speaker 2: translated over it. You can also hook it in through 3361 03:08:23,680 --> 03:08:25,880 Speaker 2: your phone. I know there's a couple of devices like that. 3362 03:08:26,480 --> 03:08:28,640 Speaker 2: This is the one I've seen that seemed both the 3363 03:08:28,720 --> 03:08:33,280 Speaker 2: smoothest and the most kind of like purpose built of them. 3364 03:08:33,600 --> 03:08:35,400 Speaker 2: I thought it was really impressive, and it's one of 3365 03:08:35,480 --> 03:08:38,280 Speaker 2: those you only you don't get those so often these days, 3366 03:08:38,280 --> 03:08:40,240 Speaker 2: but like every now and then at a show like this, 3367 03:08:40,840 --> 03:08:43,640 Speaker 2: you see a piece of technology that's like, well, this 3368 03:08:43,800 --> 03:08:46,199 Speaker 2: is what I assumed we would be doing with computers 3369 03:08:46,240 --> 03:08:48,480 Speaker 2: when I was a kid in the future, right, there 3370 03:08:48,480 --> 03:08:51,400 Speaker 2: would be an instant translator, a Babelfish device that you 3371 03:08:51,440 --> 03:08:53,840 Speaker 2: could just fit in your pocket, and it is kind 3372 03:08:53,879 --> 03:08:55,920 Speaker 2: of fucking dope, and I thought it worked really well. 3373 03:08:55,959 --> 03:08:58,800 Speaker 2: Liked I could have conducted an interview with this guy 3374 03:08:58,879 --> 03:09:00,880 Speaker 2: through that thing and it would have been pretty seamless, 3375 03:09:01,520 --> 03:09:06,440 Speaker 2: which which was nice to see. Speaking of Mandarin, I 3376 03:09:06,480 --> 03:09:09,440 Speaker 2: don't know, whatever products you're listening to, there's like a 3377 03:09:09,520 --> 03:09:11,840 Speaker 2: good thirty percent chance they're made over in China. So 3378 03:09:12,760 --> 03:09:26,560 Speaker 2: support the Chinese economy. We're back. So one of the 3379 03:09:26,600 --> 03:09:28,520 Speaker 2: things we did at this trade show, most of the 3380 03:09:28,560 --> 03:09:30,240 Speaker 2: time we spent was not out on the floor looking 3381 03:09:30,240 --> 03:09:34,240 Speaker 2: at products, it was attending these different speeches and panels, 3382 03:09:34,400 --> 03:09:36,640 Speaker 2: like where they'll have people from like they had like 3383 03:09:36,680 --> 03:09:38,640 Speaker 2: one of Google's AI heads and like the head of 3384 03:09:38,720 --> 03:09:42,320 Speaker 2: McDonald's AI integration, which is happening for some reason. We'll 3385 03:09:42,360 --> 03:09:45,280 Speaker 2: talk more about this in our dedicated AI episodes that 3386 03:09:45,360 --> 03:09:47,400 Speaker 2: are coming a bit later. But on one of the 3387 03:09:47,480 --> 03:09:51,360 Speaker 2: panels it was AI is the Fifth Industrial Revolution, was 3388 03:09:51,440 --> 03:09:53,600 Speaker 2: the name of the panel. They did not once to 3389 03:09:53,640 --> 03:09:57,000 Speaker 2: talk about what industrial revel The other four were or 3390 03:09:57,080 --> 03:09:59,600 Speaker 2: why this one was. They just said that title like 3391 03:09:59,720 --> 03:10:02,160 Speaker 2: five times. They were very proud of it. And one 3392 03:10:02,200 --> 03:10:04,759 Speaker 2: of the who was that Lady Garrison. 3393 03:10:05,160 --> 03:10:08,360 Speaker 4: The Alexa lady with the iHeart AI shirt. 3394 03:10:08,560 --> 03:10:10,440 Speaker 2: Yes, there was a lady with a shirt that said 3395 03:10:10,480 --> 03:10:12,440 Speaker 2: iHeart is Was she the dividend lady? 3396 03:10:13,040 --> 03:10:18,760 Speaker 4: No, the dividend lady was from? Was from the Synthetic 3397 03:10:18,959 --> 03:10:19,720 Speaker 4: Information panel? 3398 03:10:19,879 --> 03:10:20,039 Speaker 5: Yes? 3399 03:10:20,160 --> 03:10:23,360 Speaker 2: Yes? Oh sorry, sorry sorry that was the other panel. Yeah. Yeah, 3400 03:10:23,400 --> 03:10:25,560 Speaker 2: there was a panel in like deep fakes and AI 3401 03:10:26,160 --> 03:10:28,880 Speaker 2: harms and there was a lady on there who was 3402 03:10:28,959 --> 03:10:32,800 Speaker 2: like some sort of relevant expert. But she kept using 3403 03:10:32,879 --> 03:10:35,520 Speaker 2: the term the liar's dividend to refer to the money 3404 03:10:35,680 --> 03:10:39,440 Speaker 2: that you make if you're a scammer, and she kept 3405 03:10:39,560 --> 03:10:43,000 Speaker 2: using it in the way she used it. I immediately thought, like, oh, 3406 03:10:43,040 --> 03:10:44,800 Speaker 2: this lady wants to sell a book and that's the 3407 03:10:44,879 --> 03:10:47,920 Speaker 2: title of the book, right, Like, that's very clearly she's 3408 03:10:47,959 --> 03:10:50,320 Speaker 2: mentioning it in such a pointed, unnatural way. That was 3409 03:10:50,360 --> 03:10:54,160 Speaker 2: my assumption. Apparently the term has existed for a few 3410 03:10:54,240 --> 03:10:57,200 Speaker 2: years now. It seems useless to me because like, if 3411 03:10:57,240 --> 03:11:00,640 Speaker 2: you're saying someone is a fraudster, well, the difended is 3412 03:11:00,680 --> 03:11:03,320 Speaker 2: the money they make committing fraud. Like, you don't need 3413 03:11:03,400 --> 03:11:06,600 Speaker 2: to give it another name. It's not like that's like again, 3414 03:11:06,680 --> 03:11:08,880 Speaker 2: it's like calling the money you get robbing a bank 3415 03:11:09,000 --> 03:11:11,520 Speaker 2: the bank robbers dividend. Well, that's just a stupid thing 3416 03:11:11,600 --> 03:11:15,000 Speaker 2: to say. So yeah, we've been using that for everything 3417 03:11:15,080 --> 03:11:17,880 Speaker 2: now and now you are all enjoying the podcasters dividend here, 3418 03:11:18,240 --> 03:11:19,800 Speaker 2: you know, that's that's what you're listening to. 3419 03:11:20,560 --> 03:11:24,320 Speaker 4: Speaking of listening, we tried good pivot here, so thank 3420 03:11:24,360 --> 03:11:26,880 Speaker 4: you to you, thank you. We call that the Segway dividend. 3421 03:11:28,600 --> 03:11:29,959 Speaker 2: We tried. 3422 03:11:30,440 --> 03:11:32,400 Speaker 4: I know Robert's familiar with this, but I've not tried 3423 03:11:32,440 --> 03:11:37,640 Speaker 4: them out before until today. I think it's called chokes shocks, shocks. 3424 03:11:37,920 --> 03:11:40,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I wear those headphones every day. Yeah, they're like 3425 03:11:40,879 --> 03:11:42,560 Speaker 2: bone conducting headphones. 3426 03:11:42,160 --> 03:11:44,920 Speaker 4: Bone conducting headphones, so they don't go in your ear. 3427 03:11:45,000 --> 03:11:48,480 Speaker 4: They go around like around the back of your head. 3428 03:11:48,560 --> 03:11:52,000 Speaker 4: They hook around your ear lobe and they vibrate and 3429 03:11:52,040 --> 03:11:54,040 Speaker 4: they can make you hear sounds in your brain. Yeah, 3430 03:11:54,080 --> 03:11:57,160 Speaker 4: which is pretty cool. They were they had they just 3431 03:11:57,240 --> 03:12:01,840 Speaker 4: launched a new waterproof model targeting like swimmers. 3432 03:12:01,920 --> 03:12:04,280 Speaker 2: Yes, like IP sixty eight or something like that. Like, yeah, 3433 03:12:04,400 --> 03:12:06,480 Speaker 2: it's it's supposed to be you can submerge it for 3434 03:12:06,680 --> 03:12:09,680 Speaker 2: like hours at two meters of depth, so you can 3435 03:12:09,760 --> 03:12:10,600 Speaker 2: like swim with them on. 3436 03:12:11,000 --> 03:12:15,560 Speaker 4: But I really enjoyed these. Yeah, apparently they can help 3437 03:12:15,640 --> 03:12:18,840 Speaker 4: some people who have like targeted hearing loss, So that's 3438 03:12:19,200 --> 03:12:22,560 Speaker 4: that's an actually neat piece of working technology. 3439 03:12:22,920 --> 03:12:24,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really cool if you're not aware of these, 3440 03:12:24,800 --> 03:12:27,120 Speaker 2: because when we say, like Whenson said, you can hear 3441 03:12:27,200 --> 03:12:29,680 Speaker 2: sounds to them. They're just like wearing normal headphones. But 3442 03:12:30,680 --> 03:12:33,200 Speaker 2: we have a friend who is deaf in one ear 3443 03:12:33,360 --> 03:12:35,640 Speaker 2: and put them on for the first time recently. It 3444 03:12:35,760 --> 03:12:37,560 Speaker 2: was able to like hear out of that ear for 3445 03:12:37,640 --> 03:12:39,680 Speaker 2: the first time in years, which is like kind of 3446 03:12:39,720 --> 03:12:41,560 Speaker 2: an amazing thing to be able to do with a 3447 03:12:41,640 --> 03:12:44,680 Speaker 2: fucking set of headphones that are they're not cheap headphones, 3448 03:12:44,720 --> 03:12:48,520 Speaker 2: but they're not like inaccessibly expensive. All right, Tavia, you 3449 03:12:48,600 --> 03:12:49,920 Speaker 2: got another one you wanted to talk about. 3450 03:12:50,720 --> 03:12:53,120 Speaker 9: Yeah, there was this product that we ran into that 3451 03:12:53,280 --> 03:12:56,760 Speaker 9: was very close to the tact suit that Garrison had 3452 03:12:56,800 --> 03:12:59,720 Speaker 9: tried on, and it's called three D Desk. It looks 3453 03:12:59,760 --> 03:13:01,760 Speaker 9: to be like an additional add on you can put 3454 03:13:01,840 --> 03:13:04,560 Speaker 9: on top of your desk that you would use if 3455 03:13:04,600 --> 03:13:07,600 Speaker 9: you were working. The one that we had seen was 3456 03:13:07,959 --> 03:13:12,000 Speaker 9: a standing sitting style desk and it has the actual 3457 03:13:12,040 --> 03:13:13,960 Speaker 9: product itself on top of it, which looked to be 3458 03:13:14,040 --> 03:13:17,520 Speaker 9: like a stand, and it had two monitors attached to 3459 03:13:17,720 --> 03:13:20,400 Speaker 9: one plane of it, and then with like I think 3460 03:13:20,480 --> 03:13:25,360 Speaker 9: a simple button switch, it would sort of like another 3461 03:13:25,440 --> 03:13:27,800 Speaker 9: monitor would swoop out from behind them, and there was 3462 03:13:27,840 --> 03:13:31,480 Speaker 9: sort of like the cycling monitor arrangement that I hadn't 3463 03:13:31,560 --> 03:13:34,680 Speaker 9: quite seen before. And I work a lot with a 3464 03:13:34,720 --> 03:13:36,840 Speaker 9: bunch of different types of programs, and I'm like more 3465 03:13:36,920 --> 03:13:39,480 Speaker 9: or less stuck to my desk most of the time, 3466 03:13:39,840 --> 03:13:42,760 Speaker 9: So this actually looked to be another really useful product 3467 03:13:42,800 --> 03:13:45,520 Speaker 9: for somebody like me, not unlike the wheel me. 3468 03:13:46,440 --> 03:13:46,640 Speaker 5: Yeah. 3469 03:13:46,760 --> 03:13:48,120 Speaker 2: One of the things you can if you've seen like 3470 03:13:48,200 --> 03:13:50,720 Speaker 2: a drafting table, right like those desks, it's basically a 3471 03:13:50,760 --> 03:13:53,760 Speaker 2: big desk that you can like push down so that 3472 03:13:53,959 --> 03:13:56,240 Speaker 2: like the desk part is almost parallel, and you can 3473 03:13:56,320 --> 03:13:58,560 Speaker 2: like put stick paper and stuff on and you can 3474 03:13:59,000 --> 03:14:01,920 Speaker 2: draw on it like what architects use. It has that, 3475 03:14:02,200 --> 03:14:05,680 Speaker 2: so like underneath the monitors there's this top desk piece 3476 03:14:05,720 --> 03:14:08,000 Speaker 2: that you can like flip up and you can put 3477 03:14:08,040 --> 03:14:10,360 Speaker 2: stuff on, like use it as like a drafting table 3478 03:14:10,800 --> 03:14:12,879 Speaker 2: or push it back down, you know, with the switch 3479 03:14:12,959 --> 03:14:13,360 Speaker 2: of a button. 3480 03:14:13,480 --> 03:14:14,640 Speaker 4: It's pretty cool looking desk. 3481 03:14:15,000 --> 03:14:17,080 Speaker 9: Yeah, it would have like the two monitors and then 3482 03:14:17,200 --> 03:14:19,560 Speaker 9: this sort of like this plane that would be sitting 3483 03:14:19,560 --> 03:14:21,840 Speaker 9: at like a thirty nine degree angle or so kind 3484 03:14:21,879 --> 03:14:23,720 Speaker 9: of from you, so you can set a bunch of 3485 03:14:23,760 --> 03:14:26,680 Speaker 9: books up or a bunch of notes you're taking or organizing. 3486 03:14:27,640 --> 03:14:29,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, as a general rule, it was one of the 3487 03:14:30,360 --> 03:14:33,279 Speaker 2: like the products that I kept finding myself gravitating towards 3488 03:14:33,400 --> 03:14:35,840 Speaker 2: in our free time. There was like anything that had 3489 03:14:35,920 --> 03:14:38,480 Speaker 2: nothing to do with AI, because yeah, anyone who could 3490 03:14:38,800 --> 03:14:41,840 Speaker 2: who could find any reason to stick AI in something 3491 03:14:42,240 --> 03:14:44,960 Speaker 2: like people there's people selling like battery generators that are 3492 03:14:45,040 --> 03:14:47,080 Speaker 2: like AI assisted, and it's like, what do you mean 3493 03:14:47,160 --> 03:14:49,280 Speaker 2: it means means it cuts off the power when it's 3494 03:14:49,400 --> 03:14:53,320 Speaker 2: full well, unbelievable. That's not AI. That's just a battery 3495 03:14:53,440 --> 03:14:57,000 Speaker 2: working better. Like, come on, guys, it's this thing the 3496 03:14:57,080 --> 03:15:00,480 Speaker 2: tech industry does that that has has been supposed by 3497 03:15:00,560 --> 03:15:03,080 Speaker 2: like a lot of the products we've seen this year, 3498 03:15:03,680 --> 03:15:06,680 Speaker 2: many of whom are like just absolute nonsense, like the 3499 03:15:07,320 --> 03:15:12,199 Speaker 2: the wehead thing that that like hideous chatbot that looks 3500 03:15:12,280 --> 03:15:16,119 Speaker 2: like a broken human face and just deeply off putting. 3501 03:15:16,440 --> 03:15:19,120 Speaker 2: Now that said, there was a really cool product that 3502 03:15:19,280 --> 03:15:24,439 Speaker 2: we that I actually like liked, the AI use application. 3503 03:15:25,040 --> 03:15:27,720 Speaker 2: So there's a company called Cellistron that makes they're calling 3504 03:15:27,760 --> 03:15:31,800 Speaker 2: it a like a home observatory, and it's it looks 3505 03:15:31,840 --> 03:15:34,840 Speaker 2: like a big telescope. It's not cheap. It's not insanely 3506 03:15:34,879 --> 03:15:38,000 Speaker 2: expensive for a telescope, mind you, but it's it's not inexpensive, 3507 03:15:38,440 --> 03:15:43,800 Speaker 2: and it is like a motorized telescope that it uses 3508 03:15:44,720 --> 03:15:48,240 Speaker 2: like AI, like some sort of AI program in order 3509 03:15:48,360 --> 03:15:53,280 Speaker 2: to cut out light pollution and stuff and enhance the 3510 03:15:53,360 --> 03:15:55,640 Speaker 2: images that you're you're getting so that you can actually 3511 03:15:55,680 --> 03:15:59,039 Speaker 2: get clear images of like galaxies and other planets from 3512 03:15:59,120 --> 03:16:01,840 Speaker 2: your backyard. And it hooks into like a phone or 3513 03:16:01,879 --> 03:16:06,320 Speaker 2: a tablet or computer like wirelessly. It actually generates its 3514 03:16:06,360 --> 03:16:08,720 Speaker 2: own Wi Fi network, so you can still use even 3515 03:16:08,720 --> 03:16:10,360 Speaker 2: if you don't have Internet. But one of what you 3516 03:16:10,440 --> 03:16:12,240 Speaker 2: can do is you could control it from like an 3517 03:16:12,280 --> 03:16:15,199 Speaker 2: iPad and you could port the feed directly to your TV, 3518 03:16:15,400 --> 03:16:17,600 Speaker 2: and you could like direct you could have like a 3519 03:16:17,640 --> 03:16:21,000 Speaker 2: group of people sitting around snorting whatever drugs you prefer 3520 03:16:21,120 --> 03:16:24,520 Speaker 2: to snort and like looking at different galaxies and shit 3521 03:16:24,600 --> 03:16:26,720 Speaker 2: in space, and that was pretty fucking cool and actually 3522 03:16:26,840 --> 03:16:29,920 Speaker 2: like an actual application of machine learning that I thought 3523 03:16:30,040 --> 03:16:30,640 Speaker 2: was positive. 3524 03:16:31,879 --> 03:16:34,359 Speaker 9: Yeah, you can have like your little at home star parties. 3525 03:16:35,440 --> 03:16:37,200 Speaker 9: I dug in a little bit more on like how 3526 03:16:37,280 --> 03:16:39,160 Speaker 9: AI gets used there, and it seemed like it was 3527 03:16:39,240 --> 03:16:44,200 Speaker 9: mostly part of the image processing before controls get set 3528 03:16:44,240 --> 03:16:46,600 Speaker 9: to the user and they have like other adjustments such 3529 03:16:46,640 --> 03:16:49,959 Speaker 9: as brightness, contrast, that kind of thing. But it sounds 3530 03:16:50,040 --> 03:16:52,560 Speaker 9: like it does like some image processing as part of 3531 03:16:52,600 --> 03:16:54,640 Speaker 9: its AI capabilities. 3532 03:16:56,360 --> 03:16:57,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was that was neat. 3533 03:16:57,720 --> 03:17:00,879 Speaker 2: Again, not a cheap product, but like actually something that's 3534 03:17:00,920 --> 03:17:04,760 Speaker 2: seeing it used impressed me and I could see wanting 3535 03:17:04,879 --> 03:17:06,960 Speaker 2: to have that, And I could also see like a 3536 03:17:07,040 --> 03:17:09,880 Speaker 2: clear bit my roommate has telescopes and stuff, and there's 3537 03:17:09,959 --> 03:17:12,360 Speaker 2: usually the light pollution is too much of a pain 3538 03:17:12,440 --> 03:17:15,080 Speaker 2: in the ass and fucking even in Portland, which is 3539 03:17:15,160 --> 03:17:17,880 Speaker 2: not the worst city for light pollution in this country 3540 03:17:18,080 --> 03:17:20,880 Speaker 2: to use them very well. So something like that and 3541 03:17:20,920 --> 03:17:22,879 Speaker 2: also just being able to easily drop it onto your 3542 03:17:22,920 --> 03:17:25,920 Speaker 2: TV and like hang out with friends. Like if I 3543 03:17:26,000 --> 03:17:28,080 Speaker 2: had fight out access of something like that back when 3544 03:17:28,080 --> 03:17:30,039 Speaker 2: I was doing hallucinogens, I think it would have used 3545 03:17:30,040 --> 03:17:30,400 Speaker 2: it a lot. 3546 03:17:31,200 --> 03:17:33,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, that sounds that sounds promising. 3547 03:17:33,080 --> 03:17:34,920 Speaker 2: Speaking of things that I would have used a lot 3548 03:17:35,000 --> 03:17:36,680 Speaker 2: as a young man. Garrison, you want to tell us 3549 03:17:36,680 --> 03:17:37,920 Speaker 2: about the hand job machine. 3550 03:17:38,440 --> 03:17:44,480 Speaker 4: Sure, So there's this company that's what you said to 3551 03:17:44,600 --> 03:17:48,920 Speaker 4: get a second there. So there's this company in Norway 3552 03:17:49,400 --> 03:17:56,920 Speaker 4: called Handy. They make They make interactive, interactive sex toys. 3553 03:17:57,760 --> 03:18:01,160 Speaker 4: They started by targeting the male sex toy demographic or 3554 03:18:01,440 --> 03:18:04,480 Speaker 4: as they I actually liked that. They that they actually 3555 03:18:04,800 --> 03:18:09,240 Speaker 4: more often said the penis uh demographic, which yeah, which 3556 03:18:09,360 --> 03:18:09,720 Speaker 4: was nice. 3557 03:18:09,760 --> 03:18:10,800 Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Yeah. 3558 03:18:11,120 --> 03:18:15,840 Speaker 4: But anyway, it's uh, it's it's a little thing that 3559 03:18:15,959 --> 03:18:18,879 Speaker 4: you can you can slight and it goes up. 3560 03:18:19,000 --> 03:18:23,360 Speaker 2: Like it looks like a nice coffee thermoscy. It has 3561 03:18:23,440 --> 03:18:26,280 Speaker 2: kind of like with like a little tube that has 3562 03:18:27,160 --> 03:18:31,320 Speaker 2: like a clear plastic penis prism next to it. 3563 03:18:31,720 --> 03:18:32,960 Speaker 4: It has what it has one that it has like 3564 03:18:33,000 --> 03:18:35,680 Speaker 4: a has like a stroker sleeve attached in and you 3565 03:18:35,760 --> 03:18:38,640 Speaker 4: can control like the speed and vibration just on on 3566 03:18:38,760 --> 03:18:42,800 Speaker 4: the little like thermous looking thing. But the real features 3567 03:18:43,000 --> 03:18:46,320 Speaker 4: of the Handy is that it also has hands free 3568 03:18:46,440 --> 03:18:50,480 Speaker 4: control that you can you can hook this thing up 3569 03:18:50,680 --> 03:18:53,840 Speaker 4: via an app to many different like sources. You can 3570 03:18:53,879 --> 03:18:55,920 Speaker 4: hook this up to whatever you're watching on your computer. 3571 03:18:56,600 --> 03:18:58,360 Speaker 4: You can hook this up to movies. You can hook 3572 03:18:58,400 --> 03:19:01,320 Speaker 4: this up to an Amazon Alexa if that's your thing, 3573 03:19:03,200 --> 03:19:08,800 Speaker 4: and the sounds will will impact how the how the 3574 03:19:08,879 --> 03:19:14,120 Speaker 4: stroker moves. The The one of the more promising applications 3575 03:19:14,120 --> 03:19:16,879 Speaker 4: which it really also opens opens the field of music, 3576 03:19:17,320 --> 03:19:18,840 Speaker 4: is that you can hook it up to like your 3577 03:19:18,879 --> 03:19:22,080 Speaker 4: Spotify or something and the music and like the beats 3578 03:19:22,080 --> 03:19:24,480 Speaker 4: of the rhythm will impact the vibrations and speed on 3579 03:19:24,640 --> 03:19:28,080 Speaker 4: the stroker. So we can now learn which songs are 3580 03:19:28,160 --> 03:19:32,200 Speaker 4: best for orcas ofs which opens a whole new, whole 3581 03:19:32,240 --> 03:19:35,120 Speaker 4: new category for the Grammys. I think there's a lot 3582 03:19:35,200 --> 03:19:36,920 Speaker 4: of trial and error. I think one hundred gex is 3583 03:19:36,959 --> 03:19:37,879 Speaker 4: definitely gonna be up there. 3584 03:19:38,200 --> 03:19:40,040 Speaker 9: I think nickel Back is going to make a comeback. 3585 03:19:40,240 --> 03:19:43,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is gonna be the Billie Joel renaissance. Just 3586 03:19:43,879 --> 03:19:48,199 Speaker 2: just people spilling ropes over down Easter Alexas Christ. 3587 03:19:48,920 --> 03:19:51,640 Speaker 4: They also just launched a second product called I Think 3588 03:19:51,879 --> 03:19:55,320 Speaker 4: Just the O, which is just a more classic small 3589 03:19:55,400 --> 03:19:59,440 Speaker 4: handheld vibrator. Similarly like the Handy, It's it's based on 3590 03:19:59,560 --> 03:20:03,600 Speaker 4: actual like sound vibrations, not a motorized vibration, so it 3591 03:20:04,320 --> 03:20:07,680 Speaker 4: similarly can hook up to music and that changes the 3592 03:20:07,760 --> 03:20:10,040 Speaker 4: way it feels. So we have we have not been 3593 03:20:10,040 --> 03:20:11,800 Speaker 4: able to test these yet because he didn't actually have 3594 03:20:11,879 --> 03:20:12,560 Speaker 4: free copies. 3595 03:20:12,600 --> 03:20:14,800 Speaker 2: They only had to give Garrison a penis sheath. 3596 03:20:14,879 --> 03:20:17,960 Speaker 4: They only they only had the free sleeves. But the 3597 03:20:18,000 --> 03:20:20,200 Speaker 4: actual device is two hundred dollars, which is not is 3598 03:20:20,320 --> 03:20:24,600 Speaker 4: not super expensive considering this style of like sex toy. 3599 03:20:24,680 --> 03:20:27,080 Speaker 4: That is kind of standard. Yeah, yeah, that was That 3600 03:20:27,240 --> 03:20:31,240 Speaker 4: was one of the more professional booth sexually. Yeah and 3601 03:20:31,360 --> 03:20:33,400 Speaker 4: see yes, and this is they did a really good job. 3602 03:20:33,600 --> 03:20:35,080 Speaker 2: This is a good time for me to tell my 3603 03:20:35,200 --> 03:20:38,720 Speaker 2: favorite masturbation machine story. Oh so there's a product. 3604 03:20:38,800 --> 03:20:39,160 Speaker 4: Oh boy. 3605 03:20:39,440 --> 03:20:42,720 Speaker 2: You know, for the penis having demographic, there's not as 3606 03:20:42,760 --> 03:20:45,800 Speaker 2: many sex toys traditionally, not as many at least fun 3607 03:20:45,879 --> 03:20:48,560 Speaker 2: ones out there. It's it's it's a little bit of 3608 03:20:48,600 --> 03:20:51,480 Speaker 2: a barren wasteland. But there is the flesh light. And 3609 03:20:51,560 --> 03:20:53,600 Speaker 2: if you haven't seen a fleshlight, you've heard about them. 3610 03:20:53,640 --> 03:20:56,280 Speaker 2: It does look like a big, heavy, plastic flashlight and 3611 03:20:56,360 --> 03:20:59,760 Speaker 2: you unscrew the top and there's a fake vagina in there. Right. 3612 03:21:00,400 --> 03:21:02,320 Speaker 4: Some of them are shaped like asses. Some of them 3613 03:21:02,360 --> 03:21:03,080 Speaker 4: are sex asses. 3614 03:21:03,200 --> 03:21:05,080 Speaker 9: Sometimes there are a button. Sometimes there are a mouth too. 3615 03:21:05,320 --> 03:21:08,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, there's mouths too. And I once had 3616 03:21:08,760 --> 03:21:10,520 Speaker 2: a friend who got in some trouble with the law, 3617 03:21:10,640 --> 03:21:12,600 Speaker 2: and we had to drive to their house and grab 3618 03:21:12,680 --> 03:21:15,080 Speaker 2: a bunch of things in their house and throw them 3619 03:21:15,120 --> 03:21:17,640 Speaker 2: away because we weren't sure if the police were going 3620 03:21:17,680 --> 03:21:19,960 Speaker 2: to be showing up. And so after we did that 3621 03:21:20,120 --> 03:21:23,200 Speaker 2: that night, it was a very depressed, very sad night, 3622 03:21:23,200 --> 03:21:25,800 Speaker 2: and we all got extremely drunk, and three of the 3623 03:21:25,879 --> 03:21:28,320 Speaker 2: four of us are standing out on the front porch 3624 03:21:28,600 --> 03:21:31,360 Speaker 2: in front of like the house that we're at, and 3625 03:21:31,400 --> 03:21:33,400 Speaker 2: then the fourth person in the room, who was like 3626 03:21:33,560 --> 03:21:35,760 Speaker 2: roommates with the person who had just been arrested, comes 3627 03:21:35,840 --> 03:21:39,480 Speaker 2: out with the arrested person's flesh light and for reasons 3628 03:21:39,600 --> 03:21:42,720 Speaker 2: known only to them, and God hurls it at us. 3629 03:21:42,920 --> 03:21:46,199 Speaker 2: Now we're in like this is a we're in Richardson, Texas, 3630 03:21:46,360 --> 03:21:49,960 Speaker 2: and like it's kind of this walled off by concrete bricks, 3631 03:21:50,000 --> 03:21:52,800 Speaker 2: little front porch area, and we all bolt to get 3632 03:21:52,800 --> 03:21:55,560 Speaker 2: away from the flesh light and it hits the brick 3633 03:21:55,720 --> 03:21:59,360 Speaker 2: wall and the plastic case shatters, and then the thing 3634 03:21:59,520 --> 03:22:03,800 Speaker 2: hits the and the fake plast silicone vagina inside of 3635 03:22:03,840 --> 03:22:10,640 Speaker 2: it slithers out like like a living creature, probably lubricated 3636 03:22:10,760 --> 03:22:16,840 Speaker 2: by some sort of substance, and it was one of 3637 03:22:16,879 --> 03:22:18,920 Speaker 2: the most unsettling moments of my life. 3638 03:22:19,200 --> 03:22:21,360 Speaker 4: I'm really glad you could share that with the Strawberry that. 3639 03:22:21,560 --> 03:22:22,440 Speaker 9: The sound was incredible. 3640 03:22:22,800 --> 03:22:26,080 Speaker 2: It did, yeah, it it sounded a lot like if 3641 03:22:26,080 --> 03:22:28,879 Speaker 2: you've ever seen that episode Always Sonny where where Danny 3642 03:22:28,920 --> 03:22:32,119 Speaker 2: DeVito gets berthed from a couch like covered in sweat. 3643 03:22:32,400 --> 03:22:35,280 Speaker 2: It sounded a lot like that, I imagine, and we call. 3644 03:22:35,240 --> 03:22:37,480 Speaker 4: That experience the flesh lights dividend, the. 3645 03:22:37,560 --> 03:22:41,360 Speaker 2: Flush light dividend. That's right now, speaking of jacking off, 3646 03:22:41,640 --> 03:22:44,120 Speaker 2: the next product we're going to talk about is Jackery, 3647 03:22:44,240 --> 03:22:47,880 Speaker 2: a company that makes some really actually pretty cool like 3648 03:22:48,000 --> 03:22:52,400 Speaker 2: survival equipment, specifically like solar battery, solar panel and battery setups. 3649 03:22:52,720 --> 03:22:54,600 Speaker 2: And we're going to talk about that because it's definitely 3650 03:22:54,720 --> 03:22:56,840 Speaker 2: like of the products we saw here the most in 3651 03:22:56,920 --> 03:23:00,400 Speaker 2: our milieu, as like, yeah, the world is falling apart show. 3652 03:23:01,040 --> 03:23:03,480 Speaker 2: So we're gonna get to that. But first, here's some ads. 3653 03:23:14,120 --> 03:23:18,080 Speaker 2: We're back and we're talking about Jackery, which it's fun. 3654 03:23:18,720 --> 03:23:20,480 Speaker 2: One of the things I appreciate about this is that 3655 03:23:21,040 --> 03:23:24,879 Speaker 2: the hand job machine could have been called jack the Jackerree, 3656 03:23:25,040 --> 03:23:28,000 Speaker 2: or the company could have been called Jackerree. And likewise, 3657 03:23:28,080 --> 03:23:30,160 Speaker 2: the company that makes batteries and solar panels could have 3658 03:23:30,200 --> 03:23:32,640 Speaker 2: been called Handy because it's handy. They have a solar 3659 03:23:32,720 --> 03:23:37,040 Speaker 2: battery around when you're camping. Curious, interesting, interesting stuff. Yeah, 3660 03:23:37,120 --> 03:23:39,200 Speaker 2: a lot of thoughts there thoughts to be thought. 3661 03:23:39,959 --> 03:23:43,760 Speaker 4: Oddly, that ven diagram crossover is closer than I thought 3662 03:23:43,760 --> 03:23:44,160 Speaker 4: it would be. 3663 03:23:45,400 --> 03:23:48,440 Speaker 2: So Jackerree is a cut I would recommend googling their 3664 03:23:48,440 --> 03:23:51,000 Speaker 2: stuff they make. There's a lot the field of like 3665 03:23:51,200 --> 03:23:53,760 Speaker 2: solar batteries and panels is super crowded right now, and 3666 03:23:53,879 --> 03:23:55,560 Speaker 2: most of the batteries you're gonna are gonna be made 3667 03:23:55,640 --> 03:23:57,879 Speaker 2: like one of the same two or three factories. It's 3668 03:23:57,920 --> 03:24:00,800 Speaker 2: basically the same factory makes a bunch of Commpany's batteries, 3669 03:24:00,840 --> 03:24:02,920 Speaker 2: and a lot of them are very unsafe. There was 3670 03:24:02,920 --> 03:24:05,120 Speaker 2: a company that sent me some review samples, like a 3671 03:24:05,160 --> 03:24:08,320 Speaker 2: whole solar generator and battery last year that I was 3672 03:24:08,400 --> 03:24:10,080 Speaker 2: going to kind of do a piece about, you know, 3673 03:24:10,160 --> 03:24:12,720 Speaker 2: surviving on a solar generator, and then a month after 3674 03:24:12,800 --> 03:24:14,879 Speaker 2: it arrived, I was still testing it. It came out 3675 03:24:14,920 --> 03:24:16,800 Speaker 2: that they had burned down a bunch of people's houses 3676 03:24:16,800 --> 03:24:20,320 Speaker 2: because the batteries were insane. No, yeah, so you want 3677 03:24:20,360 --> 03:24:23,000 Speaker 2: to be careful with this stuff. Jackery is one of 3678 03:24:23,040 --> 03:24:25,160 Speaker 2: the I have had good luck with some of their products. 3679 03:24:25,200 --> 03:24:27,280 Speaker 2: They seem to be of a high build quality. I 3680 03:24:27,360 --> 03:24:30,000 Speaker 2: have not heard horror stories about them when you go 3681 03:24:30,160 --> 03:24:32,600 Speaker 2: to the their booth that people there seem to be 3682 03:24:32,680 --> 03:24:34,960 Speaker 2: genuinely knowledgeable, and the way in which they set it 3683 03:24:35,120 --> 03:24:38,720 Speaker 2: up and demo it suggests a degree of knowledge about 3684 03:24:39,120 --> 03:24:41,280 Speaker 2: the product and like what people want out of it. 3685 03:24:41,440 --> 03:24:43,320 Speaker 2: So one of the things they do have some really 3686 03:24:43,520 --> 03:24:48,080 Speaker 2: large including some like some solar batteries with generators with 3687 03:24:48,160 --> 03:24:50,680 Speaker 2: solar panel generators that are large enough to run like 3688 03:24:50,720 --> 03:24:53,520 Speaker 2: a deep freeze, which is really cool being able to 3689 03:24:53,600 --> 03:24:56,160 Speaker 2: do that. And the setup they had specifically was a 3690 03:24:57,440 --> 03:25:00,360 Speaker 2: like an actual, like serious, like solid It's like not 3691 03:25:00,440 --> 03:25:03,480 Speaker 2: one of those folding panel setups that goes on the 3692 03:25:03,600 --> 03:25:06,960 Speaker 2: roof of your car or truck alongside with like a 3693 03:25:07,080 --> 03:25:10,080 Speaker 2: tent like one of those via truck Talk tents for overlanding, 3694 03:25:10,600 --> 03:25:13,560 Speaker 2: and then plugs into you know, either their one thousand 3695 03:25:13,640 --> 03:25:16,400 Speaker 2: or like two thousand watt solar generator or yeah so 3696 03:25:16,800 --> 03:25:20,080 Speaker 2: or battery generators and just everything about the way it 3697 03:25:20,200 --> 03:25:22,560 Speaker 2: was set up seemed really practical. It seemed durable. It 3698 03:25:22,560 --> 03:25:24,840 Speaker 2: didn't feel like something was gonna fall apart. Yeah, I 3699 03:25:24,959 --> 03:25:28,280 Speaker 2: can see it being like a legitimate like even outside 3700 03:25:28,320 --> 03:25:30,760 Speaker 2: of the car, because that's more or less like a 3701 03:25:30,840 --> 03:25:33,119 Speaker 2: hobby it's sort of thing. But having one of these 3702 03:25:33,200 --> 03:25:36,360 Speaker 2: generators that you can actually run your fridge and your 3703 03:25:36,400 --> 03:25:40,200 Speaker 2: freezer and your lights in your house all like like 3704 03:25:40,360 --> 03:25:41,879 Speaker 2: they had some like in an outage. 3705 03:25:41,720 --> 03:25:44,760 Speaker 4: Microwaves, stuff, cooking implements, other other kind of stuff you 3706 03:25:44,800 --> 03:25:47,240 Speaker 4: might take for like like you know, like a week 3707 03:25:47,280 --> 03:25:51,000 Speaker 4: in mountain trip or something. The main the main roof 3708 03:25:51,040 --> 03:25:55,879 Speaker 4: mountain panel I think, was able to pull four hundred watts, 3709 03:25:56,520 --> 03:25:58,800 Speaker 4: and then it had two sliding out panels that can 3710 03:25:58,840 --> 03:26:01,160 Speaker 4: pull three hundred watts so that they could get. 3711 03:26:02,120 --> 03:26:03,760 Speaker 2: In a hot and in a in a sunny day. 3712 03:26:03,760 --> 03:26:05,440 Speaker 2: They said you could get like nine hundred wats an hour, 3713 03:26:05,520 --> 03:26:05,840 Speaker 2: which is. 3714 03:26:05,879 --> 03:26:09,920 Speaker 4: Exactly really good for n watts an hour, which is 3715 03:26:10,000 --> 03:26:12,760 Speaker 4: which is quite impressive, and they have all the batteries 3716 03:26:12,800 --> 03:26:15,480 Speaker 4: to store it. And by by far, I think Jackery 3717 03:26:15,560 --> 03:26:18,880 Speaker 4: is the most consistent company in this field that I 3718 03:26:19,560 --> 03:26:23,880 Speaker 4: could I routinely see high praise for because the feel 3719 03:26:23,920 --> 03:26:27,720 Speaker 4: of like portable solar like solar charging is kind of 3720 03:26:28,080 --> 03:26:31,480 Speaker 4: a little bit sketchy. Sometimes stuff can easily break, Things 3721 03:26:31,520 --> 03:26:34,120 Speaker 4: can be really easily over marked. Like I had a 3722 03:26:34,200 --> 03:26:37,680 Speaker 4: solar panel to to to charge my iPad that really 3723 03:26:37,720 --> 03:26:39,959 Speaker 4: only lasted like two weeks and it just completely stopped working. 3724 03:26:40,400 --> 03:26:43,720 Speaker 4: But I've only heard only heard good things about Jackery. 3725 03:26:43,800 --> 03:26:46,000 Speaker 4: I have not tested them out myself. I know Robert 3726 03:26:46,040 --> 03:26:48,320 Speaker 4: has some of them. Robert has some of their battery equipment, 3727 03:26:48,640 --> 03:26:50,120 Speaker 4: but hopefully we'll be able to get our hands on 3728 03:26:50,240 --> 03:26:51,880 Speaker 4: some of that this year. 3729 03:26:52,400 --> 03:26:55,680 Speaker 9: They also had a lot of different form factors of 3730 03:26:55,760 --> 03:26:57,640 Speaker 9: the same types of products, so a lot of smaller 3731 03:26:57,760 --> 03:27:01,080 Speaker 9: versions of things that seemed to be really good if 3732 03:27:01,080 --> 03:27:03,160 Speaker 9: you need a kind of more modular setup, that was 3733 03:27:03,200 --> 03:27:03,560 Speaker 9: for sure. 3734 03:27:03,840 --> 03:27:06,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, they had like large ones that you could basically 3735 03:27:06,160 --> 03:27:09,360 Speaker 2: have plugged into your house in case you lose power 3736 03:27:09,720 --> 03:27:11,600 Speaker 2: for a small period of time in order to like 3737 03:27:11,760 --> 03:27:14,040 Speaker 2: ensure that you don't like you don't actually have a 3738 03:27:14,120 --> 03:27:16,800 Speaker 2: period where the power's out. And then they had a 3739 03:27:16,840 --> 03:27:19,240 Speaker 2: lot of like really good camping sort of like off 3740 03:27:19,320 --> 03:27:20,640 Speaker 2: grid battery options. 3741 03:27:20,720 --> 03:27:21,160 Speaker 4: It's just cool. 3742 03:27:21,200 --> 03:27:23,440 Speaker 2: Take take a look at that if you are if 3743 03:27:23,480 --> 03:27:25,199 Speaker 2: you are someone who is in the kind of financial 3744 03:27:25,240 --> 03:27:27,800 Speaker 2: situation that you can prep in that way where you're 3745 03:27:27,879 --> 03:27:31,800 Speaker 2: you're buying like solar equipment and batteries, which definitely is 3746 03:27:31,879 --> 03:27:36,080 Speaker 2: never super cheap, right, I would recommend checking them out 3747 03:27:36,080 --> 03:27:37,760 Speaker 2: at least as you kind of do your research. 3748 03:27:38,440 --> 03:27:40,720 Speaker 4: There's like two more products I think I want to mention. 3749 03:27:41,520 --> 03:27:43,600 Speaker 4: The first is Shift. This is a company I was 3750 03:27:43,600 --> 03:27:45,440 Speaker 4: already familiar with, but I got to try these out. 3751 03:27:45,840 --> 03:27:48,080 Speaker 4: They look kind of like roller skates, but they're not 3752 03:27:48,280 --> 03:27:52,359 Speaker 4: roller skates. They are these sort of boots with motorized 3753 03:27:52,400 --> 03:27:55,840 Speaker 4: and locking wheels that attach onto your shoes. And their 3754 03:27:55,920 --> 03:27:58,320 Speaker 4: use case for this is like factory workers. It makes 3755 03:27:58,360 --> 03:28:00,360 Speaker 4: the meal, It makes them able to walk in move. 3756 03:28:00,520 --> 03:28:03,080 Speaker 2: They said two and a half times faster, considerably faster. 3757 03:28:03,200 --> 03:28:05,080 Speaker 4: I was able to walk at a pretty at a 3758 03:28:05,120 --> 03:28:08,640 Speaker 4: pretty decent speed. You can you can lock the wheels 3759 03:28:08,720 --> 03:28:12,280 Speaker 4: you need to like do more like delicate mobility tasks. 3760 03:28:12,400 --> 03:28:14,279 Speaker 4: Go upstairs stairs ladders. 3761 03:28:15,000 --> 03:28:17,400 Speaker 9: That was one way to even lock and unlock the 3762 03:28:17,720 --> 03:28:20,840 Speaker 9: shoes themselves from being used. There's like a certain gesture 3763 03:28:20,840 --> 03:28:21,520 Speaker 9: you had to make. 3764 03:28:21,480 --> 03:28:24,160 Speaker 2: By you lift up your heel I think it was, 3765 03:28:24,240 --> 03:28:26,280 Speaker 2: and it locks the shoes so the wheels don't come. 3766 03:28:26,280 --> 03:28:29,240 Speaker 4: You lift up your heel in twist and the boot 3767 03:28:29,240 --> 03:28:32,560 Speaker 4: itself had a hinge that was just under the Yeah, 3768 03:28:32,840 --> 03:28:36,800 Speaker 4: so I've seen these before. They look they look kind 3769 03:28:36,840 --> 03:28:39,240 Speaker 4: of fun, but they're four kind of factory work. So 3770 03:28:39,720 --> 03:28:41,920 Speaker 4: it's it's it's it's kind of a mixed bag where 3771 03:28:42,480 --> 03:28:45,080 Speaker 4: the device worked quite well, and it took me like 3772 03:28:45,400 --> 03:28:47,920 Speaker 4: just like maybe like like one minute to get used 3773 03:28:47,920 --> 03:28:49,840 Speaker 4: to it. Then I could then I was really smooth. 3774 03:28:50,280 --> 03:28:53,520 Speaker 4: But the actual operational use case they're envisioning is like 3775 03:28:53,800 --> 03:28:57,959 Speaker 4: being able to get like get more, get more productivity 3776 03:28:58,040 --> 03:29:00,320 Speaker 4: out of their workers the same amount of money for 3777 03:29:00,400 --> 03:29:03,280 Speaker 4: the same amount of money. So like, yeah, I think 3778 03:29:03,640 --> 03:29:05,640 Speaker 4: Robert made a pretty good comparison. Like last year we 3779 03:29:05,720 --> 03:29:09,199 Speaker 4: tried out this exoskeleton, which also you know, they talked 3780 03:29:09,200 --> 03:29:11,880 Speaker 4: a bit about a little bit about productivity specifically for 3781 03:29:11,959 --> 03:29:15,480 Speaker 4: like again factory workers, but that Exokelton was also designed 3782 03:29:15,520 --> 03:29:19,400 Speaker 4: to help that worker not damage their body. Like it 3783 03:29:19,520 --> 03:29:21,760 Speaker 4: was it was to make sure that they actually can 3784 03:29:22,840 --> 03:29:25,320 Speaker 4: can stay safer and not to as much damage to 3785 03:29:25,320 --> 03:29:29,520 Speaker 4: their knees, their joints, their back versus these little roller 3786 03:29:29,600 --> 03:29:32,840 Speaker 4: skate type shoes. Yeah, I have no such have no 3787 03:29:33,000 --> 03:29:34,240 Speaker 4: such ability. 3788 03:29:35,360 --> 03:29:37,600 Speaker 9: I mean it made you go faster, kind of like 3789 03:29:37,720 --> 03:29:39,480 Speaker 9: one of those walkways that you have in the airport. 3790 03:29:39,879 --> 03:29:41,199 Speaker 9: Who doesn't want to go a little bit faster. 3791 03:29:42,720 --> 03:29:45,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the way the guy repped it too, 3792 03:29:45,879 --> 03:29:48,880 Speaker 2: where he was like, we have these factory workers. They're like, 3793 03:29:48,959 --> 03:29:50,840 Speaker 2: I have the best job in the company. Now, it's 3794 03:29:50,920 --> 03:29:54,200 Speaker 2: so fun skating around on these things. Nobody said that 3795 03:29:54,320 --> 03:29:57,080 Speaker 2: to you, bro, like, don't lie. 3796 03:29:57,520 --> 03:29:58,320 Speaker 9: It's a nice thought. 3797 03:29:58,959 --> 03:30:02,480 Speaker 4: He also clayed that there's not been one fall or 3798 03:30:02,720 --> 03:30:06,400 Speaker 4: injury with these things, on which I just I do 3799 03:30:06,600 --> 03:30:10,200 Speaker 4: not believe because I almost fell down to testing these out. 3800 03:30:10,480 --> 03:30:13,960 Speaker 4: I'm sure if you're carrying like heavy boxes like it's 3801 03:30:14,200 --> 03:30:16,200 Speaker 4: it's very easy for your weight to get to get 3802 03:30:16,240 --> 03:30:18,840 Speaker 4: away from yourself when you're literally walking on wheels like 3803 03:30:18,879 --> 03:30:22,520 Speaker 4: and it can be controlling. It actually is more intuitive 3804 03:30:22,560 --> 03:30:24,720 Speaker 4: than I thought it would be. But mistakes happen, and 3805 03:30:25,320 --> 03:30:27,360 Speaker 4: those those sorts of big claims are a little bit 3806 03:30:27,720 --> 03:30:28,640 Speaker 4: a little bit sketchy. 3807 03:30:28,800 --> 03:30:31,320 Speaker 9: I found myself kind of waving my arms a little 3808 03:30:31,320 --> 03:30:33,360 Speaker 9: bit in front of me to keep my balance. I 3809 03:30:33,480 --> 03:30:35,160 Speaker 9: wasn't like competent on them. 3810 03:30:35,640 --> 03:30:35,840 Speaker 5: Yeah. 3811 03:30:36,800 --> 03:30:39,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, just watching you both, I could see like, well, yeah, 3812 03:30:39,680 --> 03:30:42,520 Speaker 2: people are gonna get hurt. Now I don't I am 3813 03:30:42,600 --> 03:30:45,600 Speaker 2: sure because it seems to be easy enough to use 3814 03:30:45,959 --> 03:30:47,960 Speaker 2: that I suspect it would. You could really get a 3815 03:30:48,000 --> 03:30:50,039 Speaker 2: lot of extra money out of your workers as an 3816 03:30:50,080 --> 03:30:53,000 Speaker 2: employer using these things, but at the cost of some 3817 03:30:53,280 --> 03:30:56,400 Speaker 2: of them are gonna like fucking eat shit and hurt themselves, 3818 03:30:57,040 --> 03:30:59,360 Speaker 2: which is not like in the grand scheme of corporate evil, 3819 03:30:59,440 --> 03:31:01,840 Speaker 2: especially if the show where everybody's like talking about the 3820 03:31:02,000 --> 03:31:04,520 Speaker 2: potential of AI to eliminate tens of millions of jobs. 3821 03:31:04,760 --> 03:31:06,920 Speaker 2: Not really, it doesn't really scan. And I think we're 3822 03:31:06,920 --> 03:31:09,560 Speaker 2: still putting this on the good episode because like they 3823 03:31:09,680 --> 03:31:12,400 Speaker 2: worked in a way that they were technically impressive. We 3824 03:31:12,640 --> 03:31:15,320 Speaker 2: just found it kind of upsetting that they were bragging about, 3825 03:31:15,440 --> 03:31:17,800 Speaker 2: like you can get more money out of your already 3826 03:31:17,879 --> 03:31:22,360 Speaker 2: exploited workforce with these. But I could see someone just 3827 03:31:22,440 --> 03:31:25,360 Speaker 2: getting these and because they would allow you if you 3828 03:31:25,440 --> 03:31:26,800 Speaker 2: find it, like yeah, if you if you live in 3829 03:31:26,879 --> 03:31:28,240 Speaker 2: a walkable city. 3830 03:31:28,280 --> 03:31:31,039 Speaker 4: Cityable neighborhood, it can make your commute times much. 3831 03:31:30,959 --> 03:31:33,680 Speaker 2: Faster and still probably safer than like you less risk 3832 03:31:33,920 --> 03:31:35,520 Speaker 2: maybe than like a bike or something like that. 3833 03:31:35,760 --> 03:31:37,920 Speaker 9: Yeah, I want to see somebody wear those at a 3834 03:31:38,000 --> 03:31:38,760 Speaker 9: roller skating rink. 3835 03:31:39,480 --> 03:31:41,920 Speaker 4: So yeah, that's called that's called Shift Robotics. I believe 3836 03:31:41,920 --> 03:31:42,840 Speaker 4: they're based out of Texas. 3837 03:31:43,080 --> 03:31:43,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 3838 03:31:43,959 --> 03:31:46,080 Speaker 4: The last thing I want to talk about. For both 3839 03:31:46,320 --> 03:31:50,000 Speaker 4: mine and Robert's job, we use a lot of computer screens. 3840 03:31:50,879 --> 03:31:53,440 Speaker 4: I'm looking in Robert's hotel room right now where we're recording. 3841 03:31:53,800 --> 03:31:56,920 Speaker 4: He has a laptop hooked up to a second monitor. 3842 03:31:57,200 --> 03:32:00,120 Speaker 4: I have a very similar setup I have. I have 3843 03:32:00,160 --> 03:32:02,920 Speaker 4: a laptop and a secondary monitor on my desktop. I 3844 03:32:02,959 --> 03:32:05,160 Speaker 4: have like three or four monitors always running at the 3845 03:32:05,200 --> 03:32:08,120 Speaker 4: same time, just because of the absurdity of what our 3846 03:32:08,200 --> 03:32:10,640 Speaker 4: works sometimes entails, so it could be hard to get 3847 03:32:10,680 --> 03:32:13,080 Speaker 4: things done on a single screen. And we saw this 3848 03:32:13,240 --> 03:32:17,119 Speaker 4: one product that looked just like a like a very 3849 03:32:17,240 --> 03:32:20,520 Speaker 4: like thick keyboard with a with a touchpad, but it 3850 03:32:20,640 --> 03:32:25,080 Speaker 4: had these like AR glasses attached. Now, AR is a 3851 03:32:25,240 --> 03:32:28,040 Speaker 4: tricky feel. We tried a lot of AR stuff last year, 3852 03:32:28,160 --> 03:32:30,240 Speaker 4: most of it some of it was okay, some of 3853 03:32:30,280 --> 03:32:32,520 Speaker 4: it was a little bit finicky. But this company was 3854 03:32:32,560 --> 03:32:36,760 Speaker 4: called Sightful. Yeah, and what this basically was is that 3855 03:32:37,280 --> 03:32:40,120 Speaker 4: it was a fully functioning computer but instead of a 3856 03:32:40,680 --> 03:32:43,440 Speaker 4: instead of just having a regular display, it has a 3857 03:32:43,480 --> 03:32:46,760 Speaker 4: display built into these yeah, into these glasses. 3858 03:32:46,920 --> 03:32:49,400 Speaker 2: The product itself looks like just the bottom half of 3859 03:32:49,440 --> 03:32:52,000 Speaker 2: a laptop, like the keyboard part that holds the PCU 3860 03:32:52,080 --> 03:32:55,400 Speaker 2: and shit with like this weird flappy thing attached to 3861 03:32:55,480 --> 03:32:59,200 Speaker 2: the keyboard part that holds like a set of glasses 3862 03:32:59,400 --> 03:33:02,040 Speaker 2: that are plugged in directly to the laptop. That's how 3863 03:33:02,080 --> 03:33:02,840 Speaker 2: it like looks. 3864 03:33:03,680 --> 03:33:05,840 Speaker 4: And when you put the glasses on, you get like 3865 03:33:06,200 --> 03:33:08,560 Speaker 4: four screens that pop up. The screens aren't too big, 3866 03:33:08,600 --> 03:33:10,720 Speaker 4: they're not too small. You can change the size by 3867 03:33:11,160 --> 03:33:15,080 Speaker 4: using using the touchpad. And this required a lot less 3868 03:33:15,600 --> 03:33:18,200 Speaker 4: like like a like a focusing like you usually when 3869 03:33:18,200 --> 03:33:21,320 Speaker 4: you put on ar AR glasses you have to kind 3870 03:33:21,360 --> 03:33:25,680 Speaker 4: of dial in the focal length to make them look right. 3871 03:33:26,760 --> 03:33:28,879 Speaker 4: But this was all very clear. The text was easy 3872 03:33:28,959 --> 03:33:32,040 Speaker 4: to read, Changing from one screen to another was pretty 3873 03:33:32,320 --> 03:33:35,240 Speaker 4: was pretty easy. They had they had They had a 3874 03:33:35,280 --> 03:33:37,400 Speaker 4: pass through mode like a lot of good ar does. 3875 03:33:37,760 --> 03:33:39,920 Speaker 4: They had a mode where you can lock the screens 3876 03:33:39,959 --> 03:33:41,200 Speaker 4: in place so you can turn your head and they 3877 03:33:41,200 --> 03:33:44,000 Speaker 4: don't move. They had another version where you just with 3878 03:33:44,120 --> 03:33:46,440 Speaker 4: like keystrokes, you could turn your head and the screens 3879 03:33:46,440 --> 03:33:49,200 Speaker 4: follow you. So it was it was a pretty it 3880 03:33:49,280 --> 03:33:50,280 Speaker 4: was a pretty useful device. 3881 03:33:50,400 --> 03:33:52,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. You could press a button and it would go 3882 03:33:52,520 --> 03:33:54,720 Speaker 2: the screens would disappear, Like if you're walking while using it, 3883 03:33:54,760 --> 03:33:56,360 Speaker 2: you could press a button and it would go clear, 3884 03:33:56,440 --> 03:33:57,840 Speaker 2: so you wouldn't see it, but you could see where 3885 03:33:57,840 --> 03:33:58,879 Speaker 2: you were walking pass through. 3886 03:33:58,959 --> 03:33:59,119 Speaker 5: Yeah. 3887 03:33:59,200 --> 03:34:01,280 Speaker 2: Like I typed it an email or two, and like 3888 03:34:01,400 --> 03:34:04,640 Speaker 2: did some googling on it, and I very quickly adapted 3889 03:34:04,760 --> 03:34:08,119 Speaker 2: to the screens being virtual but still using a physical keyboard. 3890 03:34:08,560 --> 03:34:10,640 Speaker 4: I we didn't get like motion sick with it. 3891 03:34:11,600 --> 03:34:12,200 Speaker 5: It was not. Now. 3892 03:34:12,400 --> 03:34:14,320 Speaker 4: I think this is like either the first or second 3893 03:34:14,400 --> 03:34:18,720 Speaker 4: iteration of this product. First the first to market the first. Yeah, 3894 03:34:18,920 --> 03:34:22,080 Speaker 4: I think there is some ways to improve. It runs 3895 03:34:22,080 --> 03:34:25,720 Speaker 4: its own Android operating system, which you know, if you're 3896 03:34:25,760 --> 03:34:28,440 Speaker 4: trying to download applications. The fact that it can't run 3897 03:34:28,520 --> 03:34:32,000 Speaker 4: Windows or Linux or even Apple's system, you know that 3898 03:34:32,240 --> 03:34:34,640 Speaker 4: that could be a bit of a limitation. It only 3899 03:34:34,760 --> 03:34:38,119 Speaker 4: had like two hundred and two hundred and fifty gigs 3900 03:34:38,160 --> 03:34:38,400 Speaker 4: of work. 3901 03:34:38,480 --> 03:34:40,960 Speaker 2: It wasn't really a full storage and power. It's a 3902 03:34:41,040 --> 03:34:44,959 Speaker 2: little bit beefier than your phone. Yea right. The company 3903 03:34:45,160 --> 03:34:49,560 Speaker 2: the product, by the way, is called spacetop. Yeah, Sightful 3904 03:34:49,640 --> 03:34:53,560 Speaker 2: is the company's spacetop is the is the the actual 3905 03:34:53,640 --> 03:34:55,720 Speaker 2: product itself, And yeah. 3906 03:34:55,600 --> 03:34:58,360 Speaker 4: I uh, we're gonna We're gonna keep our eye on it. 3907 03:34:58,520 --> 03:35:00,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't buy the first of this thing. It's 3908 03:35:00,480 --> 03:35:03,280 Speaker 2: about twenty two hundred bucks, which is like upper mid 3909 03:35:03,400 --> 03:35:05,040 Speaker 2: level cost for a laptop. 3910 03:35:06,520 --> 03:35:08,560 Speaker 4: My issue is at based on how expensive it is, 3911 03:35:08,600 --> 03:35:12,160 Speaker 4: the laptop itself isn't powerful enough to justify that price. Certainly, 3912 03:35:12,480 --> 03:35:14,440 Speaker 4: the fact that you know, I can act like I 3913 03:35:14,560 --> 03:35:18,640 Speaker 4: have four monitors wherever I go, that is, that is 3914 03:35:18,760 --> 03:35:20,680 Speaker 4: very convenient. I think I just need the laptop to 3915 03:35:20,760 --> 03:35:22,959 Speaker 4: be a little bit more powerful, especially with how many 3916 03:35:23,000 --> 03:35:25,200 Speaker 4: tabs they have open it at all times. Having only 3917 03:35:25,280 --> 03:35:28,000 Speaker 4: eight gigs of RAM just will not cut it. But 3918 03:35:28,360 --> 03:35:30,760 Speaker 4: I'm certainly certainly hopeful that we'll be able to see 3919 03:35:30,800 --> 03:35:32,200 Speaker 4: small improvements going forward. 3920 03:35:32,400 --> 03:35:35,360 Speaker 9: Indeed, yeah, they had mentioned it as being a web 3921 03:35:35,480 --> 03:35:38,440 Speaker 9: first device instead of anything else. 3922 03:35:38,680 --> 03:35:39,160 Speaker 4: That makes sense. 3923 03:35:39,280 --> 03:35:41,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's like a Chromebook, and I think in 3924 03:35:41,879 --> 03:35:44,119 Speaker 2: terms of like it's actual yeah, efficacy. 3925 03:35:44,040 --> 03:35:46,080 Speaker 4: Very similar to a Chromebook, like operation wise. 3926 03:35:46,200 --> 03:35:48,320 Speaker 2: But my hope is that like the kind of technology 3927 03:35:48,720 --> 03:35:52,320 Speaker 2: they've developed, it will get you know, if it's successful, 3928 03:35:52,320 --> 03:35:54,520 Speaker 2: they'll make more prewer. Now I do kind of worry 3929 03:35:54,520 --> 03:35:56,560 Speaker 2: about how successful will be because like Garrison and I 3930 03:35:56,640 --> 03:35:58,480 Speaker 2: were both like, oh, this is perfect for what we do, 3931 03:35:59,160 --> 03:36:02,040 Speaker 2: but we have a very specific use case for our machinets. 3932 03:36:02,080 --> 03:36:04,280 Speaker 2: And I'm not sure like how many other people are 3933 03:36:04,320 --> 03:36:06,720 Speaker 2: in our position. But I was really impressed with just 3934 03:36:06,840 --> 03:36:08,720 Speaker 2: like how well it immediately worked. 3935 03:36:09,320 --> 03:36:12,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I I was happy with it. You can 3936 03:36:12,200 --> 03:36:14,120 Speaker 4: hook up an external monitor if you if you want to, 3937 03:36:14,959 --> 03:36:16,280 Speaker 4: So that's that's nice. 3938 03:36:16,440 --> 03:36:19,560 Speaker 9: And I am a glasses wearer, and so one stuff 3939 03:36:19,560 --> 03:36:21,040 Speaker 9: that they had for me is that they took my 3940 03:36:21,160 --> 03:36:23,360 Speaker 9: glasses and approximated my prescription. 3941 03:36:23,840 --> 03:36:24,560 Speaker 4: Oh that's cool. 3942 03:36:24,680 --> 03:36:27,920 Speaker 9: Yeah, and they slid on these magnetic sort of like 3943 03:36:28,040 --> 03:36:31,080 Speaker 9: eyeglass pieces onto the headset that you're wearing, or like 3944 03:36:31,120 --> 03:36:33,480 Speaker 9: the glasses that you're wearing. That way, I could actually 3945 03:36:33,520 --> 03:36:35,480 Speaker 9: use it without wearing my prescription glasses. 3946 03:36:35,680 --> 03:36:35,920 Speaker 4: Nice. 3947 03:36:36,080 --> 03:36:38,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was really It's stuff like that that 3948 03:36:38,200 --> 03:36:40,520 Speaker 2: lets you know that people making something didn't just aren't 3949 03:36:40,600 --> 03:36:42,280 Speaker 2: just like trying to rush some shit out the door 3950 03:36:42,360 --> 03:36:44,879 Speaker 2: to make money, Like, Oh, you put some thought into that, motherfucker. 3951 03:36:45,360 --> 03:36:48,520 Speaker 2: I appreciate that. And this all leads us the easily 3952 03:36:48,600 --> 03:36:51,640 Speaker 2: the best product of the entire show. Honestly, the only 3953 03:36:51,760 --> 03:36:53,960 Speaker 2: one really worth talking about, Garrison, Will you hand me 3954 03:36:54,040 --> 03:36:55,920 Speaker 2: the flying car brochure? 3955 03:36:56,760 --> 03:37:00,359 Speaker 4: So Jesus Christ, this is the CEO. 3956 03:37:00,320 --> 03:37:04,400 Speaker 2: Of flying cars. Robotaxis is the term we heard a lot. 3957 03:37:04,760 --> 03:37:07,760 Speaker 2: We went to a panel that was like serious people 3958 03:37:07,840 --> 03:37:10,760 Speaker 2: in the robotaxi industry, which they admitted does not exist. 3959 03:37:11,000 --> 03:37:14,520 Speaker 4: By the way, advance to air mobility, of air mobility, 3960 03:37:14,640 --> 03:37:16,000 Speaker 4: it was the acronym AAM. 3961 03:37:16,160 --> 03:37:19,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, there are several companies that are using effectively 3962 03:37:19,400 --> 03:37:21,560 Speaker 2: like these are. Some of them are like ultra lights. 3963 03:37:21,680 --> 03:37:23,360 Speaker 2: But there was one of the companies that came here 3964 03:37:23,440 --> 03:37:25,760 Speaker 2: bragged like you can buy buy a plane that doesn't 3965 03:37:25,760 --> 03:37:28,120 Speaker 2: require a pilot's license because it's so light, but it's 3966 03:37:28,160 --> 03:37:30,800 Speaker 2: still a plane, which seems like a horrible idea to me. 3967 03:37:31,520 --> 03:37:35,160 Speaker 2: But there are some real companies who are like testing 3968 03:37:35,200 --> 03:37:37,840 Speaker 2: out electronic aero taxis. Some of these are this is 3969 03:37:37,920 --> 03:37:41,080 Speaker 2: not vaporware. These products exist. Now, what doesn't exist is 3970 03:37:41,120 --> 03:37:43,840 Speaker 2: the legal framework to allow people to do this. Like 3971 03:37:43,920 --> 03:37:47,040 Speaker 2: the panelists were like openly like, we want this to 3972 03:37:47,120 --> 03:37:49,360 Speaker 2: be an industry, but first there have to be it 3973 03:37:49,520 --> 03:37:52,800 Speaker 2: has to be legal right now, we don't know, like 3974 03:37:52,920 --> 03:37:55,000 Speaker 2: they they're still trying to figure out like what the 3975 03:37:55,080 --> 03:37:56,720 Speaker 2: rules are going to be. They're hoping by the end 3976 03:37:56,720 --> 03:37:59,480 Speaker 2: of this year the FAA puts out like a temporary 3977 03:37:59,600 --> 03:38:03,120 Speaker 2: rule so about how robot air robo taxes work, and 3978 03:38:03,200 --> 03:38:05,879 Speaker 2: also how they call them verta ports, which is because 3979 03:38:05,879 --> 03:38:08,080 Speaker 2: these are all vertical takeoff and landing craft. 3980 03:38:08,959 --> 03:38:11,000 Speaker 4: At least the one that we saw on the show 3981 03:38:11,080 --> 03:38:15,080 Speaker 4: floor looks like a looks like a Lamborghini with a 3982 03:38:15,240 --> 03:38:16,840 Speaker 4: massive drone. 3983 03:38:16,959 --> 03:38:20,720 Speaker 2: Like a DGI type round the top. And that's that's 3984 03:38:20,760 --> 03:38:22,280 Speaker 2: the one I want to talk about, because all of 3985 03:38:22,320 --> 03:38:26,560 Speaker 2: those were real products. The exit paying the air road product, 3986 03:38:26,600 --> 03:38:29,040 Speaker 2: in my opinion, is absolutely not. It's built as a 3987 03:38:29,080 --> 03:38:32,840 Speaker 2: low altitude air mobility exploring. Yeah, it looks like a 3988 03:38:33,120 --> 03:38:37,200 Speaker 2: huge drone like you'd buy at a fucking best Buy, 3989 03:38:38,240 --> 03:38:41,600 Speaker 2: attached to a Lamborghini, and apparently the whole drone part, 3990 03:38:41,680 --> 03:38:44,160 Speaker 2: all of the rotors fold back into the body when 3991 03:38:44,160 --> 03:38:45,760 Speaker 2: you're driving it as a car like a. 3992 03:38:46,080 --> 03:38:48,600 Speaker 4: Like a transformer, like a transformer. 3993 03:38:49,120 --> 03:38:51,440 Speaker 2: And the reason why I say this is the best 3994 03:38:51,480 --> 03:38:54,280 Speaker 2: product in CEES is not that I think it would 3995 03:38:54,360 --> 03:38:58,240 Speaker 2: work or be safe. Because we talked to two people, 3996 03:38:58,800 --> 03:39:00,680 Speaker 2: and the person who was told to us is their 3997 03:39:00,760 --> 03:39:03,760 Speaker 2: technical expert, and neither of them could answer if it 3998 03:39:03,879 --> 03:39:04,800 Speaker 2: had airbags. 3999 03:39:05,200 --> 03:39:09,320 Speaker 4: They did say probably. They did say probably, which isn't 4000 03:39:09,400 --> 03:39:10,440 Speaker 4: what you want to hear. 4001 03:39:11,000 --> 03:39:13,560 Speaker 2: No, that you should have that answer. That's not a 4002 03:39:13,600 --> 03:39:16,560 Speaker 2: tough question, that's not a gotcha does your car have airbags? 4003 03:39:17,160 --> 03:39:19,040 Speaker 4: First, first, the PR guy that we were talking to 4004 03:39:19,520 --> 03:39:22,199 Speaker 4: was very open about knowing almost nothing about the technical 4005 03:39:22,240 --> 03:39:24,720 Speaker 4: aspects of this device. And then when we talked to 4006 03:39:24,800 --> 03:39:27,920 Speaker 4: the technical person, they too didn't know very much about it. 4007 03:39:28,120 --> 03:39:31,160 Speaker 4: So like, just isn't very reassuring, Like. 4008 03:39:31,200 --> 03:39:32,800 Speaker 2: And I even tried to do it the easy way 4009 03:39:32,840 --> 03:39:34,880 Speaker 2: where I was like, well, I know ultra light aircraft 4010 03:39:34,959 --> 03:39:37,720 Speaker 2: you don't need a pilot's license for so do you 4011 03:39:37,879 --> 03:39:41,320 Speaker 2: need Does this qualify? And they were basically said, no, 4012 03:39:41,560 --> 03:39:43,920 Speaker 2: we don't know, we don't know. Yeah, yeah, it'll take 4013 03:39:44,000 --> 03:39:47,360 Speaker 2: some kind of license. Probably. What kind of range does 4014 03:39:47,400 --> 03:39:49,520 Speaker 2: it get? They said twenty kilometers. 4015 03:39:49,000 --> 03:39:51,600 Speaker 4: By air about twenty minutes per charge. 4016 03:39:51,800 --> 03:39:55,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, which seems like a dangerously short amount of time 4017 03:39:55,080 --> 03:39:59,120 Speaker 2: to be flying you and a loved one potentially in 4018 03:39:59,280 --> 03:40:00,920 Speaker 2: a thing it is. 4019 03:40:01,120 --> 03:40:03,280 Speaker 4: It is pretty low altitude, I think, they said it 4020 03:40:03,400 --> 03:40:05,880 Speaker 4: max is out at around one hundred one hundred, No, 4021 03:40:06,080 --> 03:40:09,600 Speaker 4: they said hundred meters. Sorry, so it's really not for 4022 03:40:09,720 --> 03:40:12,600 Speaker 4: going up super high. And I when we went to 4023 03:40:12,680 --> 03:40:16,040 Speaker 4: the more like expert panel, a lot of these use 4024 03:40:16,080 --> 03:40:20,119 Speaker 4: cases for this, they imagine is kind of replacing helicopters 4025 03:40:20,160 --> 03:40:25,240 Speaker 4: in cities. There's like metavac use cases. But a lot 4026 03:40:25,280 --> 03:40:27,440 Speaker 4: of people were talking about like testing these things out 4027 03:40:27,520 --> 03:40:30,760 Speaker 4: in New York where rich people use helicopters to get 4028 03:40:30,760 --> 03:40:33,120 Speaker 4: around the city, and this is what they want to 4029 03:40:33,200 --> 03:40:37,520 Speaker 4: replace them with. Because these can be purely electric, these 4030 03:40:37,560 --> 03:40:39,680 Speaker 4: can be much more because these can be much quieter. 4031 03:40:40,280 --> 03:40:42,240 Speaker 4: So that was what a lot of what they were 4032 03:40:42,440 --> 03:40:45,280 Speaker 4: talking about. However, again most of the panel was just 4033 03:40:45,360 --> 03:40:48,760 Speaker 4: them just complaining that the government hasn't done enough work 4034 03:40:49,000 --> 03:40:50,280 Speaker 4: to make this a real industry. 4035 03:40:51,000 --> 03:40:54,000 Speaker 2: Garrison, I got, you're not aware of this topic. It 4036 03:40:54,080 --> 03:40:56,960 Speaker 2: just handed me the flyer we got from them that 4037 03:40:57,000 --> 03:40:59,760 Speaker 2: I don't think either of us read through. Here's their story. 4038 03:41:00,000 --> 03:41:05,520 Speaker 2: Oh Boy, Sale Beyond Limits twenty thirteen. Zoo Deli ignited 4039 03:41:05,760 --> 03:41:09,400 Speaker 2: Erot with a daring dream to turn the enchanting broomsticks 4040 03:41:09,440 --> 03:41:12,840 Speaker 2: of Harry Potter into tangible wonder. Oh No, a tribe 4041 03:41:12,879 --> 03:41:15,920 Speaker 2: of daring mind set forth on the thrilling journey of 4042 03:41:16,000 --> 03:41:19,320 Speaker 2: crafting electric marvels that could take humans to the skies 4043 03:41:19,840 --> 03:41:24,800 Speaker 2: through tireless exploration. The first ever prototype, the flying motorcycle. Gracefully, 4044 03:41:25,040 --> 03:41:30,000 Speaker 2: this is all a Harry Potter thing. Some madman from 4045 03:41:30,160 --> 03:41:32,480 Speaker 2: China fell so in love with Harry Potter that he 4046 03:41:32,640 --> 03:41:37,240 Speaker 2: made a death car. I'm back around to loving it again. 4047 03:41:38,600 --> 03:41:43,039 Speaker 4: Average tech industry guy brain poisoned by Harry Potter creates 4048 03:41:43,160 --> 03:41:43,800 Speaker 4: death device. 4049 03:41:44,520 --> 03:41:46,520 Speaker 9: I feel like this guy and the plant pet Sky 4050 03:41:46,680 --> 03:41:47,920 Speaker 9: are probably like pretty tight. 4051 03:41:48,959 --> 03:41:50,840 Speaker 4: They're both the same kind of Why is there so 4052 03:41:50,879 --> 03:41:54,520 Speaker 4: many apocalypse tent based around Harry Potter? What's going on 4053 03:41:54,720 --> 03:41:55,520 Speaker 4: in this industry? 4054 03:41:56,280 --> 03:41:58,880 Speaker 2: And it is so The other brochure they had it 4055 03:41:59,000 --> 03:42:02,800 Speaker 2: shows like flying car, the modular flying car, which looks 4056 03:42:02,879 --> 03:42:05,680 Speaker 2: like a cyber truck because if it had like you know, 4057 03:42:06,200 --> 03:42:07,480 Speaker 2: you can get a truck, you can put like a 4058 03:42:07,840 --> 03:42:10,480 Speaker 2: bed cap on the beds. It's basically a big it's 4059 03:42:10,520 --> 03:42:12,520 Speaker 2: like a cyber truck with one of those, but the 4060 03:42:12,560 --> 03:42:16,640 Speaker 2: bed cap opens up to deploy like a quad copter 4061 03:42:16,800 --> 03:42:19,359 Speaker 2: thing that human beings can ride in kind. 4062 03:42:19,200 --> 03:42:23,680 Speaker 4: Of like sound wave in Transform, which is. 4063 03:42:24,280 --> 03:42:26,760 Speaker 2: It's a cool idea from like a kid's point of view. 4064 03:42:27,360 --> 03:42:29,800 Speaker 2: I think the idea here is that you know, John 4065 03:42:29,879 --> 03:42:32,400 Speaker 2: McAfee used to do this thing where he would live 4066 03:42:32,400 --> 03:42:34,720 Speaker 2: in the desert with a cult of weirdos and they 4067 03:42:34,720 --> 03:42:37,120 Speaker 2: would fly around on gliders until he got his nephew 4068 03:42:37,160 --> 03:42:39,720 Speaker 2: and an old man killed and a glider crash. This 4069 03:42:40,000 --> 03:42:43,200 Speaker 2: is this is the dream yeah of that Harry Potter fan. 4070 03:42:43,400 --> 03:42:46,280 Speaker 4: I mean, I this The reason why I'm actually very 4071 03:42:46,360 --> 03:42:48,920 Speaker 4: pro this product is because the only people that are 4072 03:42:48,959 --> 03:42:52,280 Speaker 4: going to use these are really rich. Yes, yes, I 4073 03:42:52,400 --> 03:42:55,040 Speaker 4: think there's a high gence this could take out a 4074 03:42:55,240 --> 03:42:55,920 Speaker 4: lot of them. 4075 03:42:56,200 --> 03:42:59,600 Speaker 2: This this has the best chance of dropping multiple billionaires 4076 03:42:59,640 --> 03:43:02,720 Speaker 2: of anything since the Death's Up, Like we felt from 4077 03:43:02,760 --> 03:43:07,000 Speaker 2: one hundred meters in the air just crashing out of 4078 03:43:07,080 --> 03:43:11,080 Speaker 2: the sky and Santa Monica and sand billionaires just taking 4079 03:43:11,200 --> 03:43:12,840 Speaker 2: out whole lanes of traffic. 4080 03:43:13,000 --> 03:43:15,920 Speaker 4: Imaginers. I mentionined to walking through the park one day 4081 03:43:16,120 --> 03:43:20,480 Speaker 4: and a billionaire comes flying down from the sky lands 4082 03:43:20,560 --> 03:43:22,880 Speaker 4: in like a two million dollar drone. 4083 03:43:23,280 --> 03:43:25,840 Speaker 2: The prototype that they say they got to fly was 4084 03:43:25,920 --> 03:43:29,320 Speaker 2: two tons. Wow, you could really do a lot of 4085 03:43:29,440 --> 03:43:30,360 Speaker 2: damage with that. 4086 03:43:32,000 --> 03:43:34,520 Speaker 4: Well, this is this, This is all quite exciting. 4087 03:43:34,760 --> 03:43:36,760 Speaker 2: Keep your eye on the sky. Folks, maybe wear a 4088 03:43:36,840 --> 03:43:41,680 Speaker 2: helmet for a while until this all shakes out. Like 4089 03:43:41,920 --> 03:43:43,720 Speaker 2: there's the story in the news right now that like 4090 03:43:43,840 --> 03:43:46,760 Speaker 2: some dude in Portland had the fucking door of that 4091 03:43:46,840 --> 03:43:50,080 Speaker 2: Alaska Airlines flight in his backyard. And I can't wait 4092 03:43:50,240 --> 03:43:53,520 Speaker 2: until that's like a third of Elon musk, just like 4093 03:43:53,800 --> 03:43:57,800 Speaker 2: Lance in someone's yard, like two million dollars. Oh yet, Yeah, 4094 03:43:58,040 --> 03:44:01,280 Speaker 2: And by the way, if fucking eat a billionaire's carcass 4095 03:44:01,360 --> 03:44:04,160 Speaker 2: winds up in my lawn, I got a new punch 4096 03:44:04,200 --> 03:44:07,959 Speaker 2: bowl with their skull. I'm going to harvest their. 4097 03:44:07,840 --> 03:44:10,800 Speaker 4: Possibly called the Billionaires Division, the Billionaires Dividend. 4098 03:44:11,879 --> 03:44:15,640 Speaker 2: Well, all right, everybody, anyone, Tapia you have anything to plug? 4099 03:44:16,480 --> 03:44:18,880 Speaker 9: Oh yeah, you can find me on Twitter or x 4100 03:44:19,320 --> 03:44:22,320 Speaker 9: at cut Mora, or if you want to learn a 4101 03:44:22,320 --> 03:44:25,560 Speaker 9: little bit more about me and my interactive and immersive work, 4102 03:44:25,760 --> 03:44:28,840 Speaker 9: you can see my work at tapiamora dot com. 4103 03:44:29,440 --> 03:44:31,240 Speaker 2: You can also see her work in my book A 4104 03:44:31,280 --> 03:44:33,959 Speaker 2: Brief History of Ice, where she did all the illustrations, 4105 03:44:34,120 --> 03:44:36,040 Speaker 2: or in my book After the Revolution where she did 4106 03:44:36,080 --> 03:44:38,920 Speaker 2: all the illustrations, or in the sequel which will come 4107 03:44:38,959 --> 03:44:41,840 Speaker 2: out when I finish those last two fucking chapters like 4108 03:44:42,000 --> 03:44:46,080 Speaker 2: three years from now, huh or in Vegas, yeah tomorrow 4109 03:44:46,959 --> 03:44:53,760 Speaker 2: to Laura, all right, well we're done. Hey, We'll be 4110 03:44:53,840 --> 03:44:57,200 Speaker 2: back Monday with more episodes every week from now until 4111 03:44:57,200 --> 03:44:58,320 Speaker 2: the heat death of the Universe. 4112 03:44:58,959 --> 03:45:01,280 Speaker 4: It Could Happen Here is production of cool Zone Media. 4113 03:45:01,520 --> 03:45:04,199 Speaker 5: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 4114 03:45:04,240 --> 03:45:07,360 Speaker 5: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 4115 03:45:07,360 --> 03:45:09,880 Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 4116 03:45:10,320 --> 03:45:12,440 Speaker 4: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 4117 03:45:12,520 --> 03:45:15,520 Speaker 4: monthly at coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. 4118 03:45:15,720 --> 03:45:16,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.