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Speaker 1: For confidence in your financial plan, look for a CFP professional.

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Speaker 1: financial plan today and tomorrow. Three letters do make a difference.

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Speaker 1: Visit Let's make a plan dot org to find your

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Speaker 1: CFP professional. Um, what okay? First of all, have you

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Speaker 1: been told anything about what we're doing? Not too much? Okay?

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Speaker 1: I gotta an email. It's something vague about family trauma.

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Speaker 1: I skimmed over the This is Dr Jacob hom He's

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Speaker 1: a clinical psychologist who runs the Center for Child Trauma

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Speaker 1: and Resilience at Mount Sinai. I asked him to come

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Speaker 1: talk to me about how trauma trickles down through generations.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you a little bit about my story

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Speaker 1: and what happened with my mom and Jesus, where do

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Speaker 1: I even start. Basically, I am investigating the murder of

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Speaker 1: the love of my mother's life. I was born in

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Speaker 1: eighty five. He died in eighty two, and I tell

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Speaker 1: him the whole story about my mom's trauma and losing Billy,

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Speaker 1: about my childhood with her, and my choice to have

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Speaker 1: myself removed from her care. I'm visualizing like um layers

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Speaker 1: and layers of like armor of rage and toughness being

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Speaker 1: applied to you, a bunch of fuck you energy, you know, Doc,

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Speaker 1: It's like we've known each other a lot of time.

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Speaker 1: I loved her, very very deeply, but she was not

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Speaker 1: a tune to what I needed or wanted. And she

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Speaker 1: was suffering, which I think was the most painful thing.

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Speaker 1: She was really really suffering. Right, Your job was to

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Speaker 1: take care of her. See what's always you? And I

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Speaker 1: actually heard that from the moment you started, because when

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Speaker 1: you said, let me tell you about my childhood, where

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Speaker 1: do I begin? And then it starts three years before

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Speaker 1: you're born. It's always about her. First, you're killing me, doctor, Jesus.

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Speaker 1: None of this was your fault. You didn't deserve any

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Speaker 1: of this, and yet you are going to blame yourself,

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Speaker 1: and you're never gonna stop trying to pine after her

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Speaker 1: and seek her and get her to love you the

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Speaker 1: way that you really want. And it's such a fucking trap.

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Speaker 1: So I wonder for you, hearing that story and everything

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Speaker 1: that happened to her and all of the results of

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Speaker 1: it in as it manifested in my life, does that

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Speaker 1: make equal sense to you how she behaved? Um, I don't.

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Speaker 1: This is weird. I don't like that the story doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter to me. The way you tell it matters. It's like,

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Speaker 1: remember we watch like those music competitions, Like, Um, you

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Speaker 1: can have perfect pitch and perfect technique, but if you

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Speaker 1: don't sing it with your full heart, then it doesn't

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Speaker 1: move people and you don't get goose bumps. But you're

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Speaker 1: vibrating your hearts fucking vibrating, and it's going to come across.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what you're saying is that the vulnerability is

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Speaker 1: almost a superpower. It's like a communicative it's it's the answer. Well,

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Speaker 1: as I was listening to you speak, I was, um

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Speaker 1: seeing your heart hardened with the potential to just become

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Speaker 1: bitter and rageful, and instead you somehow use this process

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Speaker 1: to kind of like melt the hard edges, and you

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Speaker 1: yourself developed the capacity for empathy and connection. So don't

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Speaker 1: fight what you're supposed to be and just like try

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Speaker 1: to figure out what the wisdom of it is. Today,

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Speaker 1: I try to figure out what the wisdom of it

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Speaker 1: is from Crimetown. I'm io till it right. And this

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Speaker 1: is the final episode of the Ballad of Billy Balls.

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Speaker 1: Off the elevator comes Dooey Balls, and my god, that

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Speaker 1: was fucking it. It's called love it first sight. Remember

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Speaker 1: back we called me, you know if she called me

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Speaker 1: right after it happens, because Billy has been shot the

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Speaker 1: car quickly, I feel it that he fired and I

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Speaker 1: was not happy with it at all. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you can't be happy being involved in something like that,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna find them. We're gonna find them. Okay, okay.

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Speaker 1: Potter's Field on Hard Island is a small patch of

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Speaker 1: land in the easternmost parts of the Bronx. To me,

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Speaker 1: scheduling a visit, she was more like his wife, so

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Speaker 1: I would definitely schedule her for a family or loved

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Speaker 1: one type visits so vile that there's someone under this

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Speaker 1: ground and you would never know it. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how to do the right thing for her. Ship and

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Speaker 1: movies is so neat, you know. Real life isn't like

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Speaker 1: that chapter thirt Life After Death. What's what's happening her.

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like I should have proud a bottle

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Speaker 1: of wine or something. I'm so like anxious. This project

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Speaker 1: has affected a lot of people, but in particular a

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Speaker 1: person I didn't know existed when we started out, Amanda

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Speaker 1: Billy's daughter. Austin asked her to come by the studio

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Speaker 1: one last time to tell her everything we've discovered. Did

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Speaker 1: your grandmother Your grandmother told you something though, Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: said that he was in a Potter's gray, but she

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Speaker 1: never knew exactly where he begins with Hart Island. We

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Speaker 1: found that he is buried on Heart Island and this

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Speaker 1: is the original ledger, the ledger of Um where he's buried.

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Speaker 1: The grave number m hm height Man. There's no z right,

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Speaker 1: and that's why we couldn't find him. UM. You can

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Speaker 1: go if you want to. I don't know who wrote huh.

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Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't. I don't know who i'd go up

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Speaker 1: there with. Well, I mean, i'd go up there with

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Speaker 1: you if you want, but that's not I don't know

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Speaker 1: pressure or anything for that. This is just information that

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Speaker 1: I want you to have, UM, and you can do

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Speaker 1: with it what you will, but you I just want

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Speaker 1: you to know that you are, You're able to go wow.

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Speaker 1: So this is is it the police report that's the

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Speaker 1: NYPD released to us? Is this my copy that yours?

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Speaker 1: So this is what the undercover cop is saying. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So basically the story was that this guy went to

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Speaker 1: make a narcotics purchase from your dad. Austin goes through

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Speaker 1: the undercover cops story that he was buying heroin from

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Speaker 1: her dad when things went wrong, and that Billy pulled

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Speaker 1: a gun so he shot him. Silly, that's so strange.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know. There's so much here. Is there

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Speaker 1: any more stuff from Rebecca, like pictures and any recordings

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Speaker 1: or anything. So that is the final thing that I

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Speaker 1: have for you. Let me get get it. So I

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Speaker 1: made you a little thing. Oh my god, I want it.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. We made Amanda a compilation of some of

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Speaker 1: Billy's music. So these are some Rebecca's pictures, and we

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Speaker 1: made copies of my mom's pictures of Billy pictures Amanda's

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Speaker 1: never had, and put together a photo album for her.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. There's the photo of Billy smoking a cigarette

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Speaker 1: with his band with his hand down his pants. It's

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Speaker 1: so crazy because that was the band that he had

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Speaker 1: with Cheetah chrome. There's a photo of Billy standing inside

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Speaker 1: his apartment. You see his piano and his white shoes.

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Speaker 1: It looked like they might be like jazz shoes. Maybe

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Speaker 1: he did seem to like addressing up or wearing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was very into his clothes. And there's a grainy

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Speaker 1: photo of a toddler standing next to her dad. Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: looks like my daughter. It looks like a kid thing

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Speaker 1: right there. All right, some teddy bear like they made

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Speaker 1: a little effort. Yeah. I just want to ask about

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Speaker 1: your feelings about all this now, after you've been through

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Speaker 1: so much of this with us. It's a lot to

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Speaker 1: think about. I wasn't really thinking about it before it

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Speaker 1: was all started. I mean, this whole thing came to

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Speaker 1: me out of nowhere. So it's a lot to process,

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Speaker 1: for sure. Just a lot of information I've received that's

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Speaker 1: I've been pretty upsetting. Um, I don't know, it's been

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Speaker 1: pretty upsetting. I guess. I guess that's what I can say.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't want to not like him.

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Speaker 1: I never grew up not liking him, but now I'm

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Speaker 1: not the biggest fan. And it would have been fine

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Speaker 1: to go through my life and not have that. You know,

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Speaker 1: I knew that he made a lot of bad choices.

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Speaker 1: I knew that he used a lot of drugs. I

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Speaker 1: just didn't want to overthink the details of everything that

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Speaker 1: went along with that. It's what's it gonna do for me?

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Speaker 1: I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm not writing a thesis on this.

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Speaker 1: I met my life. You know, I don't really think

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Speaker 1: about my parents like in this like poor me kind

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Speaker 1: of way. But they were incredibly fucked up people. There's

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Speaker 1: no question about it. They're really bad, bad, bad parents.

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Speaker 1: So you don't really need to be reminded of that

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Speaker 1: because you spend most of your life as an adult

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Speaker 1: trying to get over that. This isn't about me, but

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Speaker 1: it certainly affected me, and it didn't need to. It

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Speaker 1: didn't need to at all. I just need I was

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Speaker 1: just needed to get documents because I'm the only one

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Speaker 1: related to this guy. It's just difficult because of that. Um.

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Speaker 1: But it's nice to see pictures of him and see

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Speaker 1: you know, resemblances and things like that. Yeah, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: it's complicated. I'm sorry, and thank you. You're welcome. It's

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Speaker 1: so strange, like I've already made peace with this ship

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Speaker 1: like this was buried on Heart Island a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: It's Heart Island. You know. I'm alive. He's not. And

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Speaker 1: there's a reason. So same with my mother. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I watched the destructive behavior my entire life. I I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be that, and I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: be That's that's it, thank you? All right, let's call

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Speaker 1: it to so much. The truth has a different purpose

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Speaker 1: for everybody um involved, Like, what's it for? What's it

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Speaker 1: good for? My dad? Seth. A documentary is just a

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Speaker 1: sequence of digging and discoveries, and it cannot be projected

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Speaker 1: in advance. You know where it's going or what even

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Speaker 1: what its purposes. In a way, it's it's very mysterious.

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Speaker 1: That's the mystery, not who killed Billy, but who needs

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Speaker 1: to know and what that knowledge is for. That's very

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Speaker 1: mysterious to me. I'm not sure it's coming time to

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Speaker 1: tell my mom about what we've found. I want to

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Speaker 1: give her closure, and I'm hoping my dad will have

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Speaker 1: an idea about how best to do that. You are

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Speaker 1: the only other person who knows my mom as intimately

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Speaker 1: as I do. What do you think justice looks like

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Speaker 1: for her? There's no justice in this because I don't

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Speaker 1: think justice um has anything to do with truth with facts.

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Speaker 1: You can ask her, do you want to know it?

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Speaker 1: Let her have the first refusal, don't confront her. I

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Speaker 1: think that she found a life after death, you know,

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Speaker 1: after murder, that she got you. You know, that is

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Speaker 1: like adding a life as opposed to subtracting a life.

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Speaker 1: That's justice that she made it through this. So ask

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Speaker 1: her what you should. Let her tell you how much

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Speaker 1: she wants to know. M Um, what's about to happen?

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Speaker 1: Where are we talk to me? So my mom is

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Speaker 1: on our way here to the studio, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: give her the option of knowing what we've found throughout

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Speaker 1: this process. I don't plan to show her any photos.

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Speaker 1: They don't plan to show her the death certificate unless

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Speaker 1: she asks for it, or the police report for that matter.

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Speaker 1: And I'm a little bit nervous about how she I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is the crossroads, right, It's like, does she want

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Speaker 1: to hear reality or does she want to stay in

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Speaker 1: her version of things. It's been some fucking fireworks lately.

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Speaker 1: But what do you mean by that? She hasn't listened

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Speaker 1: to the show and she's been having a certain degree

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Speaker 1: freak out about it, calling me in increasingly frantic states

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Speaker 1: and alternately yelling at me or crying or just like

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Speaker 1: getting really crazed about it, because when you don't know

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Speaker 1: what's in something, your brain spins to the worst. I

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Speaker 1: pull up a voicemail my mom recently left me. All right,

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Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna put on some different headphones, and

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Speaker 1: out of respect, I'm not going to play it here,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sharing it with Austin. My mom's unleashing a

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Speaker 1: spew of brutality. She says, I'm trying to rewrite her

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Speaker 1: history with Billy, and she's disowning me. Oh man, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Man, that sucks. That's really hard. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to listen to. It's like, man, oh man, that's sucking

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Speaker 1: me up a little bit. Um. Yeah, it's crazy to

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Speaker 1: see it affects somebody else because it makes me realize

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Speaker 1: what I'm used to. It's just so it's just right

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Speaker 1: to the bone. It's growing up I didn't have I

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Speaker 1: didn't experience anything like that. Um. I'm not used to

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Speaker 1: hearing things like that, I guess. And I'm just really

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Speaker 1: sorry that this this has been your life and this

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Speaker 1: is other people who are listening. I'm sure this is

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Speaker 1: their life, and I don't know. I don't know what's up.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Austin, Yeah, I don't thank me. I mean thank

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Speaker 1: you for going into this ship and and you know,

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Speaker 1: opening yourself up to the world at least telling this

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Speaker 1: the story and then like man like you, you survived

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Speaker 1: some ship. She here, I think she's here. Yeah, she's here. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's go get her after the break. My mom, let

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Speaker 1: me just take off my coats. Yes, well it's hot

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Speaker 1: a coat. My mom's just arrived at the studio for

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Speaker 1: a final interview. She's wearing her standard black tank top

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Speaker 1: and black pants. Her hair is pulled back in a

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Speaker 1: little wet. She's been swimming at a pool in Midtown.

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Speaker 1: I love to swim. I'm good swimmer, you know, alnce

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Speaker 1: your back and muscles. As she settles in, a silence

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00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:18,399
Speaker 1: falls over us. It's tense. Wh I guess you know

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Speaker 1: this is not some like big formatted reveal of anything.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to, you know, give you the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to know as much as you want to know. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know what there is to know, so how

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Speaker 1: would I know? How much do I want to know. Well,

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Speaker 1: here's a little packet of papers for you of stuff

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Speaker 1: that we found about Billie's history when he was a kid.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty cute. Um. This first one is an article

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Speaker 1: from his birth announcing his birth from the Red Band.

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Speaker 1: I start by taking my mom um through Billy's childhood

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Speaker 1: in New Jersey, where he grouped the highest honor mark

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Speaker 1: went to William Heightsman Red Bank. He would have been

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Speaker 1: like eight years old or something. He was like winning

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Speaker 1: awards for his piano playing. Wow, he told me he

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Speaker 1: never had a piano lessons. Yeah, he lied. Trying to

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Speaker 1: impress you. I tell her about how Billy sang in

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Speaker 1: his elementary school choir, about how he won a bicycle

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Speaker 1: safety poster contest when he was ten, and that we

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Speaker 1: talked with some of his childhood friends who remembered Billy

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Speaker 1: as a unique and rambunctious kid. Then jumps to when

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Speaker 1: he was fifteen, and this article says FBI nabs youth

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Speaker 1: in Florida. Hold up from when he tied that guy

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Speaker 1: to the radiator toilet toilet toilet changed. But it was interesting.

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Speaker 1: We tracked down the guy who he did that robbery

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Speaker 1: with his son is still alive, and the Sun said

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Speaker 1: that Billy set the robbery up with the owner of

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Speaker 1: the shoe store, like the guy was trying to pull

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Speaker 1: some insurance scam. Then he got a bunch of like

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Speaker 1: ship as an older teenager for noise violations from noisy mufflers,

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Speaker 1: you know. So then I guess very shortly after that

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Speaker 1: he moved to New York and like that kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff kind of stops, which leads us to the less

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Speaker 1: fun things. This is up to you what or how

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Speaker 1: much you want to know. But what I will tell

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Speaker 1: you to kill? No, No, not at all, not at all.

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Speaker 1: It's entirely up to you. I just want you to

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Speaker 1: know that, like we got his death certificate, we got

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Speaker 1: his the police report from the incident um and all

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Speaker 1: that stuff gave us a lot of information which we

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Speaker 1: then took to ron Kube and dissected with him to

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Speaker 1: try to understand what happened. And against all odds, we

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Speaker 1: found the name of the guy in the cowboy had

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Speaker 1: and we found him. You found him, like that guy's

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Speaker 1: walking around. He's still alive. So charges I want to

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Speaker 1: know about charges against him? Yes, well, I guess I

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Speaker 1: mean the charge that was going to be leveled against

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Speaker 1: Billy was attempted murder of a police officer. You know

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Speaker 1: that they charged him with possession of a gun. And

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Speaker 1: that's what they always say, legally speaking, if you pull

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Speaker 1: a gun on a cop, that's what they always say,

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Speaker 1: even if you don't know that they're a cop. Billy

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Speaker 1: told me and the lawyers that he had no gun,

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Speaker 1: all right. Yeah, when something happened so long ago, you

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Speaker 1: have to piece together the surrounding narratives. So we talked

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Speaker 1: to Cheetah and we talked to Geeta, and we talked

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Speaker 1: to Animal X, and we talked to Chris, and we

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Speaker 1: talked to Marino. We talked to all these different people,

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Speaker 1: and you extensively to try to piece together the narrative

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Speaker 1: of who Billy was. And like all that is to

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Speaker 1: try to piece together the likelihood of what somebody would

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Speaker 1: do in a situation. The likelihood has nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with the reality. I think that if somebody's not here,

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Speaker 1: somebody shoot someone. Is that acceptable in this society? I mean,

303
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: I'm not going to fight you on it. But he

304
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: owned guns his whole life. So the idea that he

305
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 1: would have gotten rid of all of the guns, to

306
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: me personally seems very very unlikely, and I think the sad,

307
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: very hard to swallow reality of the situation legally speaking,

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Speaker 1: is that if you pull a gun on a police officer,

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Speaker 1: they have the right to shoot you. That's what they

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00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: always say. There's no evidence that it wasn't his gun.

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00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 1: That's so easy to arrange. Also, the other aspect that

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00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: we've pretty solidly confirmed with you and other people as

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00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,959
Speaker 1: ability was selling drugs and the guy wasn't undercovering our

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00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: conics detective small time, little ship, you know, like you know,

315
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: a little nothing big like that would warrant like a

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Speaker 1: big shootdown. And you're not interested in the narrative that

317
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Speaker 1: they you know, I'm not interested in their bullshit lies.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's another cruck of shit, you know. I

319
00:25:51,520 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: really don't care what bullshit they have to say. How

320
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: do you feel right now? How do you think I feel?

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00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: I don't know your bottle rocket, It could go a

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00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: lot of different ways. Do you want to know what

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00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: I think? Or do you not care? Um? If it's

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Speaker 1: a theory, I don't want to hear it because it's

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00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: not relevant. There's facts and there's theories, you know, Okay,

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00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: do you want to know anything about the cop or

327
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Speaker 1: any of that stuff. I'd like to see him fry

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00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: and be six ft under all right, That's that's it.

329
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Speaker 1: I spoke to him, really, yeah, he spoke to me.

330
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Speaker 1: What did you say to him? I said, my family's

331
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: life has been largely defined by this day, and you

332
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: were the only other person in the room that night,

333
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: and I would like to know what you say happened.

334
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: And the cop basically is like, he pulled a gun

335
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: on me and then I shot him and that's why.

336
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: And the cop says that there was that was the

337
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: only person in his entire career that that's ever happened with.

338
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: Fuck him. So where is this freak? He lives on

339
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: Long Island? On Long Islands? What's his name? Are you

340
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: sure you want to know that? Yeah? I want to know. Why?

341
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: Why do you think? I don't Yeah, I don't know, Mom,

342
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I don't know. Are you sure

343
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: you want to know that? I don't know? If why

344
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: tell me why you want to know that? So I

345
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 1: can make a decision on whether or not it's wise

346
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: to tell you this. I just want to know. His

347
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: name is Ron? Ron? What's I don't know? Mom? Let's

348
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: I gotta think about whether or not it's smart. It's

349
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: a kids to tell you that, because it's it's an

350
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: very complicated situation, and the position that you're in is

351
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: incredibly infuriating and disempowering. And I know you, and I

352
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: know your temper and the depth of the rage around

353
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: the situation, and I think it would be probably pretty stupid.

354
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: I know, Mom, that Billy was the love of your life,

355
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: and I know that you loved him more than anything else.

356
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: I know that, But is there a world in which

357
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: you could imagine that he had anything to do with

358
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: it and might have provoked that situation at all? There

359
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: were no guns. I know that he told you that.

360
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: In terms of likelihood, the guy who owned guns his

361
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: whole life probably had a gun. He told me otherwise,

362
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: all right, he told me otherwise. So wouldn't you say

363
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: your interpretation is that accurate? Because you didn't know him.

364
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: He's dead. But I'm translating because I have a right.

365
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: He told me. We're at a stalemate. And I'm reminded

366
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: of a moment I had with Dr Harm, the clinical

367
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: psychologist from the top of the show. She has a

368
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: story that she's told herself for thirty seven years. That

369
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: involves this great injustice and the police doing something bad

370
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: and violating her family, and what we have to say

371
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: might take that apart. So do you have thoughts around

372
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: how to deal with that? I'm not sure I understand

373
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: your question. The reason why I'm not companying your question

374
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: is because all I see is you're doing it again,

375
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: doing one again. Your your entire existence is centered around

376
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: orbits around fixing your mom. She has her own journey

377
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: and she's bequeathed this. She's like set you on your

378
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: path to help heal both of you, And the most

379
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: important thing that you can do is to fix the

380
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: stuff inside of you and then stay with her moment

381
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: to moment, not in the past. So when she disappoints you,

382
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: enrages you, does something right, then can you like respond

383
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: authentically to that and help her like be present with you.

384
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: So you're saying, the most healing thing is to get

385
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: right with myself so that I can be with her

386
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: in the present moment. Yeah, I thrive on understanding and context,

387
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: and my forgiveness is directly tied to well, but why

388
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: did you do that? And if you can give me

389
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: a why that my brain can comprehend you're off the hook.

390
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: That's why I'm a little afraid of making the meaning

391
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: making part, because I'd rather that you forgive and connect

392
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: even if you can't make sense of it. Mhm. I

393
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: struggle with that. I struggle with that. It's a little

394
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: bit too much to ask of people. But it's like

395
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: real surrender. I was going to say that is the

396
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: definition of surrender. Just is what it is, and therefore

397
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: it has to be okay, right, It's like I love

398
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: you despite all this, even if I can't make sense

399
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: of it, I still love you, and I know that

400
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: you still love me in some way. So all this

401
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: past ship doesn't matter. It mattered for your journey, but

402
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: the end goal is radically authentic presence with another person.

403
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: Let her stop running, make her feel safe, see her.

404
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: That's the greatest gift that you've given her, actually to

405
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: see her. There is an ending here, but it's not

406
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: going to come from my mom. It has to come

407
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: from me. I don't always understand my mom, but I

408
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: love her and I know that she loves me too,

409
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: fiercely and deeply. I'm choosing to accept what we have

410
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: rather than wishing for something that doesn't exist. Sitting next

411
00:33:48,640 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: to her in the studio, I surrender will you. There

412
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: was a story about you guys going to Boston, right,

413
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: oh Boston, Oh good in the snow, in the snow,

414
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: That's what it was, right, it was. I was wearing.

415
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: It was very cheap, like double knit forest green sparkle

416
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: shell with his zip up the back and mini skirts

417
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: with the last sized waist but not bunchy and black

418
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: fuck me pumps with no stockings. His car had no

419
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: floor because he was working on it as we went

420
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: in the blizzard, so writing and the snows coming up

421
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: through the floor. Oh god, so so good. But here

422
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: his favorite songs too, like practice singing to like what

423
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: like see of love? Ship, Come with me my love

424
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: to the sea, the sea of La Dude, remember when

425
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: when met That's the day I knew you all my

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00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: bed I want to tell you, um shot. I imagine

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00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: her draped across the bench seat, her bleached blonde head

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00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 1: resting on Billy's thigh as he skids through the snow,

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00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: a cigarette dangling from his mouth. She reaches up and

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00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: caresses the collar bones of the man she will love forever.

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00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: As they sing together. Freezing air flies up from the

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00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: highway below. But they're unfazed, warmed by love good two

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00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 1: sie Ah Love. Do you remember when we met? That's

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00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: the day I knew you were my pet. I wanna

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00:36:54,160 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: tell you how much I love you. Oh h m hmm, yeah, okay,

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00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: you're ready to stop, all right? I love you, Mom,

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00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: I love you my book. You can have some more

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00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: positive questions if you like, but I think that's a

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00:37:47,120 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: great way to end the whole show. H Primetown is

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00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: Zach Stewart Pontier and Mark Smirling. The Ballad of Billy

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00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: Balls is hosted by me Io till it Right and

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00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: made in partnership with Cadence thirteen. You can find me

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00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: on the Internet. I'm Io loves you on everything, and

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00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: if you want to know more about my story, you

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00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: can pick up my memoir Darling Days. One of my

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00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: favorite parts of this experience has been getting voicemails from

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00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: you listeners to a more than ever. I want to

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00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts and feelings. Call us and leave us

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00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: a voicemail. You can say whatever you want. We're at

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00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 1: five seven oh three, nine to nine zero. It would

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00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: mean the world to me. The show is produced by

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00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: me Kevin Sheppard and Ryan Swygert. Our senior producers Austin Mitchell,

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00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: editing by Zach Stewart Pontier and Mark Smirling. Fact checking

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00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: by Jennifer Blackman. This episode was mixed by Kenny Qca.

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00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: Music and sound design by Kenny Qca. Our title track

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00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: is Dark Allies by Light Asylum. Archival research by Brennan Reese.

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00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: Thanks to Daniella Aria, Rachel Lee Wright, Emily Wiedemann, Green

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00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: Card Pictures, Alessandro Sentauro, Bill Clegg, Cassie Evaschewsky, Ben Davis,

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00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: or In Rosenbaum, and the team at Cadence thirteen MM.

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00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: I want to take a minute to thank my partner

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00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: on this intense voyage, Austin. I could never have made

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00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: this thing without you, man, and I don't know what

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00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do without you now. I guess we have

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00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: to make something else together. Zach, Mark, Kevin Ryan, and

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00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: the entire team. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

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00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: You've made this dream a beautiful reality. Thank you to

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00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: everyone who gave us their time and interviews. To Melinda

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00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: Hunt for her work to open Heart Island, to Miss

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00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: Calvert for understanding love, to Cora for being my chosen

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00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: family and to my dad for never shutting off and

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00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: always moving towards me even when it hurts. I want

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00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: to thank my fiance Rachel for listening to every episode

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00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 1: ninety times and holding me up when it was too hard.

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00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: I also want to thank every one of you who's

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00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: listened to this all the way through. If you're hearing

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00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: me say this right now, you've listened through the whole

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00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: of the credits, which means that you're a real one.

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00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: Please find me on the internet and say hello, stay

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00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: in touch. I'll miss you, and I'm also sorry about

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00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: all those two week breaks. And finally, of course, my mom,

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00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 1: without whom none of this would be possible. It hasn't

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00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: been simple, but I guess that's what makes it beautiful. Yeah,