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Speaker 1: What is Up? Runner Gang, Welcome back to Post run High.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is a really special one for me. We're

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Speaker 1: sitting down with Paul Rabel. He's not only one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest lacrosse players of all time, but he's also

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Speaker 1: a trailblazing entrepreneur who has completely reshaped the sport. If

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Speaker 1: you're new here, this podcast is all about inspiring conversations

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Speaker 1: that start with movement, because we believe movement opens people

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Speaker 1: up in ways nothing else does. And today we kicked

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Speaker 1: things off with a run through the streets of New

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Speaker 1: York before sitting down to talk. This episode means a

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Speaker 1: lot to me personally. I grew up in North Jersey

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Speaker 1: in a lacrosse focused family, and some of my fondest

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Speaker 1: memories growing up are training in the backyard for hours

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Speaker 1: on end with my brothers and my dad and my mom.

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Speaker 1: Both of my brothers went on to play Division one

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Speaker 1: lacrosse at Yale and they won a national championship together.

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Speaker 1: So this sport was a huge part of my life.

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Speaker 1: But I did end up tearing my ACL twice in

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Speaker 1: back to pack years, which forced me to walk away

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Speaker 1: from the sport, but I never stopped being a fan

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Speaker 1: Paul was one of the first athletes I ever looked

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Speaker 1: up to, and getting to share this conversation with him

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Speaker 1: about resilience, reinvention, and building something that last felt like

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Speaker 1: a full circle moment. In this episode, we talk about

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Speaker 1: his early life, what drove him to become the best

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Speaker 1: in the world, how he built the PLL from scratch

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Speaker 1: with his brother, and what keeps him pushing forward even

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Speaker 1: after retirement from the game. Before we dive in, just

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Speaker 1: a quick ask if Post Run High has been meaningful

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Speaker 1: to you, It would mean a lot if you left

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Speaker 1: us a review or shared this episode with a friend.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get our post Run High going. Paul Rabel,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Post Run High.

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be here. What a great run.

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Speaker 1: We just had such a great run.

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Speaker 2: If I want to take a nap or if I

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Speaker 2: want to talk.

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Speaker 1: Is your post Run High going or would you rather

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Speaker 1: post run rot Right now.

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Speaker 2: Post Run High, let's discuss.

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Speaker 1: So Paul and I ran out a mile in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 1: It's yeah, maybe, actually you know what I actually think.

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Speaker 1: So for when you first started walking, not to call

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Speaker 1: out Paul for walking, No, I'm just kidding. When we

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Speaker 1: first started walking and I had to fix my hair

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Speaker 1: that was probably about a mile. So I feel like

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Speaker 1: we did like one point seven.

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Speaker 2: Jeremy, what do you think?

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Speaker 3: Two over under?

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Speaker 2: One point five? One point five? Hey, I'll take it

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Speaker 2: one point five. I wanted to lift m hm, and

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Speaker 2: you wanted to run, and I'm your guests, so we're

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Speaker 2: going to run.

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Speaker 1: So this podcast theme is all about movement, So let's

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Speaker 1: first talk a little bit about physically. What does movement

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Speaker 1: look like in your life right now? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Well, I wish I was doing more of it, if

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Speaker 2: I'm being honest, because I'm working seven days a week

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Speaker 2: with the Poll because we're in season now and it's

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Speaker 2: wall to wall, so I intentionally put my phone on

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Speaker 2: Do not Disturbed when I wake up in the morning

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Speaker 2: to get lemon juice and alcalize and make a coffee

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Speaker 2: and try to read a chapter of a book before

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Speaker 2: the inevitable storm comes, which is you know, lead teams, players, marketing, sponsorship,

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Speaker 2: ticket sales, venue travel, and that comes with the territory.

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Speaker 2: So I feel really blessed to be able to do

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Speaker 2: that on a day to day. But what's been challenging

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Speaker 2: is not being able to train and use my body

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Speaker 2: the way that I did for twenty eight years while

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Speaker 2: I was playing, and then fourteen years professionally. Is I

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Speaker 2: honestly feel like I communicate and I flow through physical activity.

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Speaker 2: I love sport, I love lifting, and I love running

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Speaker 2: and sprinting. So I have to fix that admittedly, but

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Speaker 2: it is. We're built to move.

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Speaker 1: I feel like the hardest part of being an athlete

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Speaker 1: that has played at the level that you've played at

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Speaker 1: is you love sports so much and moving your body,

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Speaker 1: but the wear and tear on your body is so

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Speaker 1: incredible when you play at that level totally, and it

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Speaker 1: does not set you up for success later in life

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Speaker 1: after you stop playing, because your body has I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure just so many injuries that you're constantly nursing.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, I think the primary or the guarantee

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Speaker 2: in sport is that there's going to be pain, and

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Speaker 2: it's about how we persist and respond and grow from it.

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Speaker 2: And the pain can be as small as missing a shot,

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Speaker 2: could be losing a game. It can be getting injured,

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Speaker 2: it can be getting traded. All these things come and

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Speaker 2: they cause so much pain. But in sport you get

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Speaker 2: to respond right away, which sometimes in life, in our careers,

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Speaker 2: we don't, so you get this immediate feedback loop and

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Speaker 2: this opportunity to first take accountability, which I think is

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Speaker 2: so important to get right, because I try to write

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Speaker 2: about this in my book, that if you reframe pain

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Speaker 2: and build a relationship with it and know that on

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Speaker 2: the other side of it is going to be the sunlight.

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Speaker 2: What's important to get right is that to get to

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Speaker 2: the sun you have to take accountability, and you have

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Speaker 2: to look at yourself and understand and why you missed

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Speaker 2: that shot, why you lost that game, why you might

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Speaker 2: have been injured, and then you have to put in

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Speaker 2: the work to respond, and that's when your foundation enlarges.

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Speaker 2: And most of us when we go through pain, and

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Speaker 2: myself included early on, sulked and regretted and ruminated and

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Speaker 2: I should have done this, and you're just living in

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Speaker 2: the past. And then the other side of it again

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Speaker 2: is jumping into the future. So you just have to

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Speaker 2: be present. And so that's one of so many lessons

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Speaker 2: I've learned in sport.

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Speaker 1: When you're moving your body. Now, do you still feel

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Speaker 1: like you are constantly making yourself push through pain or

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Speaker 1: are you sometimes holding yourself accountable and being like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, like I think I need to take a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a reset right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I think that, you know,

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Speaker 2: in life, we evolve, and when I was an athlete,

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Speaker 2: it was very much about improvement and being the best

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Speaker 2: version of myself physically and mentally on the field such

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Speaker 2: that the team could win. Now that I'm retired, I

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Speaker 2: have to evolve that mindset into what is my routine,

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Speaker 2: what is my work ethic? What is my best version

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Speaker 2: to help the team win? Now it's probably more intellectual now,

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Speaker 2: and it's more soft skills like management and patience and motivation.

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Speaker 2: And so I wrote about this lesson I learned from

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Speaker 2: a coach when I was at a recruiting camp when

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Speaker 2: I was in eighth grade, and he asked a pool

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Speaker 2: of lacrosse players who wanted to be great that question,

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Speaker 2: who wants to play at the next level? Who wants

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Speaker 2: to get a scholarship? Raise your hand? We all did,

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Speaker 2: and he goes, I'll tell you how you can do that.

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Speaker 2: You have to shoot one hundred shot to day, and

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Speaker 2: if you do that from this day forward through your

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Speaker 2: senior year in high school, I guarantee you'll get a

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Speaker 2: scholarship to the Division one program. Of your choice, and

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Speaker 2: that felt really attainable. Then he said, but here's the

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Speaker 2: caveat You can't miss a day, and that's so easy

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Speaker 2: to do in life because of holidays or weather or injury,

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Speaker 2: and you have to find a way in the cross.

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Speaker 2: There are very many goals you especially if you live

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the country on the coast, you

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Speaker 2: be able to find some at local park and reckfields.

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Speaker 2: But I used to make goals and I'd shoot against

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Speaker 2: a fence at a backstop of a baseball park and

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Speaker 2: always find a way. And so stringing that along into

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Speaker 2: what I do, now, what are my hundred shots? Like,

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Speaker 2: it's not going out on the field and shooting one

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Speaker 2: hundred shots against a net. That's not helping me grow

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Speaker 2: the poll or write a book or produce a show.

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Speaker 2: So figuring out those one hundred shots, I'm sure you

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Speaker 2: have a version of that in your career.

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Speaker 1: The coolest thing about movement is when people think of

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Speaker 1: it in the literal sense. They think about the physical activity,

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Speaker 1: which we just did, right, we went for a run.

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Speaker 1: And then I think about movement mentally, emotionally and really

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Speaker 1: movement on this pursuit of greatness. And you've been your

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Speaker 1: career in life has been such a testament to the

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Speaker 1: power of just keeping going and the success that you've

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Speaker 1: been able to achieve through doing that. So I would

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Speaker 1: love to start this podcast off by just going back

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Speaker 1: to the beginnings of who Paul was and where he

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Speaker 1: grew up and where you know you got your start.

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Speaker 2: Sure, So I grew up in a neighborhood called Whetstone

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Speaker 2: and Montgomery Village, Maryland, and I have an older brother

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Speaker 2: and younger sister and two amazing parents who never pushed

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Speaker 2: us to high achieve I never thought about really like

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Speaker 2: what success meant. They were very spiritual people who cared

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Speaker 2: about family and exploring passions, and so for us in

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Speaker 2: a household where my dad grew up playing basketball, it

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Speaker 2: was always like exploring different sports. I did some theater,

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Speaker 2: I played some music, but ultimately sport was felt like

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Speaker 2: my calling. So I played soccer or basketball, played a

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Speaker 2: little bit of baseball, a little bit of football, track

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Speaker 2: and field swimming, and that was such a I'm so

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Speaker 2: grateful for that because I think today a lot of

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Speaker 2: kids in sports, they're being pushed and pressure eyed is

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Speaker 2: to be great and what has to happen first? Because

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Speaker 2: I told you that story about in eighth grade, but

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Speaker 2: I started playing in six What has to happened first

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Speaker 2: is you have to have fun and you have to explore,

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Speaker 2: you know, the movement and the love for what you do.

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Speaker 2: And I stumbled on lacrosse somewhat later because my neighbor

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Speaker 2: gave me a backup stick and he was my best friend.

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Speaker 2: So I went on the team, and I really struggled

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Speaker 2: with it, but that pursuit of learning a new skill,

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Speaker 2: and you know, with the help of my mom, who

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Speaker 2: would drag me to practice because I actually at the

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Speaker 2: time is really mature and hated that I wasn't good

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Speaker 2: at it and that I was failing at it, so

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Speaker 2: she pushed me along. And then at some point you

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Speaker 2: reach that tipping point and you acquire a new skill,

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Speaker 2: and then you're going to find out if you love

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Speaker 2: it or not. And I found out pretty quickly that

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Speaker 2: I loved lacrosse, and that carried me through most of

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Speaker 2: my life. And lacrosse now is giving me an education,

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Speaker 2: it's giving me relationships, it's giving me opportunity far more

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Speaker 2: than I ever could have imagined.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy to see everything unfold, and I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: unpack it today and really tell your story, because it's

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Speaker 1: just amazing everything you've been able to do yourself in

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Speaker 1: the sport and now what you're doing for the sport

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Speaker 1: and beyond and the other passions that you're pursuing, and

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Speaker 1: it's just really it's so interesting and just like a

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Speaker 1: testament to you. I grew up playing lacrosse right. I

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Speaker 1: grew up in Burton County, New Jersey. Lacrosse was like

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Speaker 1: the sport there, and I have two brothers that played

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Speaker 1: lacrosse at Yale they won a national championship. And growing

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Speaker 1: up playing travel sports, I knew that Maryland was obviously

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Speaker 1: super competitive. Like whenever we would have our club tournaments

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Speaker 1: and play against the girls in Maryland, we knew it

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Speaker 1: was going to be a tough game. So for you

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Speaker 1: to come in and start playing at what twelve years old,

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Speaker 1: when you're in sixth grade, what was it like starting

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Speaker 1: to play alongside some of these other players that had

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Speaker 1: been playing with their parents who also played lacrosse right

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Speaker 1: until starting at maybe six or seven.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question because there's this Titleist performance

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Speaker 2: study that says that kids stop playing sport or they

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Speaker 2: quit for three reasons. One they're not having fun, Two

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Speaker 2: the skill is too difficult, and three as they're outsized

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Speaker 2: because kids grow at all different sizes at different speeds,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of times you're lumped in a team

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Speaker 2: based on your age, but you may have a guy

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Speaker 2: who's so much bigger than you get pushed over and

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Speaker 2: not having fun. You quit. So entering a sport being

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Speaker 2: behind at the skill level of most of the kids

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Speaker 2: around my team, I could have turned over and quit,

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Speaker 2: and that's why I brought up my mom. She kept

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Speaker 2: me in it. And then I use my mind and creativity,

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Speaker 2: you know. I think about work ethic for pro athletes

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Speaker 2: quite a bit, and sort of like the monotony and lacrosse.

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Speaker 2: You probably notice, like hitting the wall, just pass against

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Speaker 2: the wall for hundreds and hundreds of reps a day

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Speaker 2: and then taking the same shot over and over and

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Speaker 2: over again. And if you look at a good piece

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Speaker 2: of scripted or unscripted sports content on Netflix or ESPN

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Speaker 2: plus whatever it is, these stories do everything but really

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Speaker 2: tell what's actually going on, which is visually boring. The

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Speaker 2: athlete going to the gym every day, bench pressing, squatting,

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Speaker 2: passing against the wall. I mean thousands and thousands of times.

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Speaker 2: So what they do is you tell the narrative about

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Speaker 2: the person and things that they do away from the field,

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Speaker 2: drive to survive, et cetera. So I use my creativity

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Speaker 2: to get out on the practice field to try to

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Speaker 2: improve and catch up to my peers and a shorter

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Speaker 2: amount of time that it took them to get the

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Speaker 2: skill that they were out at that moment. And I

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Speaker 2: noticed in hindsight that I would just practice differently and

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Speaker 2: I sort of use the wall as a canvas. My

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Speaker 2: mom was an art teacher, and I loved the idea.

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Speaker 2: She told me to sort of explore painting outside the lines.

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Speaker 2: And a player now, for example, I think he does

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Speaker 2: that in the NBA is Kyrie Irving. He's in the

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Speaker 2: same rules, on the same size core as everyone, but

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Speaker 2: he just kind of flows differently. And that was that

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Speaker 2: was a secret of mine, is trying to, you know,

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Speaker 2: outside the lines, within the discipline and the consistency of

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Speaker 2: working every day, and that's what helped me close the gap.

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Speaker 1: I love knowing that you have such a creative mind

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Speaker 1: also in how you see the world. And it's interesting

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Speaker 1: knowing that your mom was an art teacher like I

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Speaker 1: definitely had more of a creative brain that I had,

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Speaker 1: like a math and science type of brain. And when

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Speaker 1: I think back to to like when I was playing

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Speaker 1: lacrosse or playing basketball, whatever the sport was, I always

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Speaker 1: felt like I could see the field or see the

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Speaker 1: court very well. And obviously I played at such a

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Speaker 1: different type of level than you was so recreational. But

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering, like, do you think having this creative mind

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Speaker 1: that you definitely operate in right, Like you're a storyteller,

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Speaker 1: you're a writer, you're a producer. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: helped you in lacrosse? Yeah, let's paint that picture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean even today with the poll, I think

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Speaker 2: most of what I do is think about the art

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Speaker 2: of storytelling. And I remember when we were raising money,

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Speaker 2: we went to this investor and owner of the Golden

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Speaker 2: State Warriors and he owned some casinos and amazing entrepreneur

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Speaker 2: that was playing lacrosse in Peter Guber. And I remember

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Speaker 2: telling Peter when we were pitching him on how we

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Speaker 2: could make pro lacrosse great?

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Speaker 1: Was it?

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Speaker 2: Sports is entertainment? It's a fensic manage to say about WWE.

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Speaker 2: And I studied the WWE growing up and I'm like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they tell these great stories. It's like it's like Shakespeare,

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Speaker 2: except you know, in a ring and Peter goes, no,

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Speaker 2: it's not entertainment, it's show business. And it changed my

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Speaker 2: mind because I was like, holy shit, like it's it's

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Speaker 2: actually bigger than just entertaining. In media, there's all different

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Speaker 2: means of where at the time sports wasn't but it

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Speaker 2: is today where you see scripted and unscripted television, film, documentaries,

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Speaker 2: doc series, books, podcasts, social media, live events with your

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Speaker 2: network partner, and it's about how you can invite the

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Speaker 2: viewer on any size screen, any given moment, into the

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Speaker 2: game through the narrative of the players, the stakes, the

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Speaker 2: suspect events, the surprise, sometimes the comedy, and then at

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Speaker 2: the end you know that it's the best form of

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Speaker 2: content because the ending hasn't been written yet, so you're like, fuck,

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Speaker 2: what's gonna happen? And that's what makes sports so compelling

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Speaker 2: for a viewer and why I think it's the last

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Speaker 2: standing firewall for a pointment watching television and advertising. So

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Speaker 2: I'm blessed and really lucky that I had a creative

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Speaker 2: mom and a creative dad, and you know that when

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Speaker 2: I was playing lacrosse, we didn't have a network partner,

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Speaker 2: so people couldn't watch the games unless they subscribe to

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Speaker 2: Lack Sports Network at the time. And so I then

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Speaker 2: got into social media to tell the story of what

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Speaker 2: a professional lacrosse player was doing during a day to day,

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Speaker 2: a week to week basis, what it meant to compete

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Speaker 2: and win and lose. And I launched a YouTube channel,

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Speaker 2: then I launched a podcast, and it was like, Oh,

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Speaker 2: for someone who's not classically trained in storytelling, that's an

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Speaker 2: advantage sometimes and I try to carry that with me

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Speaker 2: every day.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I wanted to talk to

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Speaker 1: you about was the content strategy. So it is so

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Speaker 1: cool hearing what you just said. And it seems like

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Speaker 1: when you were creating content about yourself as an athlete,

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Speaker 1: showing like what a lacrosse player's life is like on

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Speaker 1: the field off the field, and you are such a

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Speaker 1: good content creator. Did you know in the back of

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Speaker 1: your head, I'm educating people on this sport more so

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Speaker 1: than like just showing myself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a difference between self promotion and

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Speaker 2: telling someone about your passion or what you love to

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Speaker 2: do and the creator economy, and whether you're an influencer

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Speaker 2: or you're athlete or an entertainer, an author in the

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Speaker 2: middle of it, whatever it is, as long as authentically

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Speaker 2: you're telling your audience or an audience something that you

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Speaker 2: love to do, that you genuinely care about, then that

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Speaker 2: unlocks the freedom to for me publish. And there have

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Speaker 2: been plenty of time where because of sort of the

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Speaker 2: zeitgeist of attention and fame and all this, where you

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Speaker 2: start like self criticizing and maybe go down the path

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Speaker 2: of publishing something that doesn't feel right, feels a little grabby,

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Speaker 2: feels a little breathy, and you know immediately when it

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Speaker 2: gets published you can feel it in your gut. Anyway

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Speaker 2: it might go archive it or whatever, but you're like,

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Speaker 2: that wasn't right. But it takes reps, just like sport,

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Speaker 2: it's like podcasting to figure that out. And there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of paralysis, I think today and now, like what

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Speaker 2: was new media for me? And I was an early

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Speaker 2: adopter because when I graduated from Hopkins in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and eight, Instagram hadn't launched yet, and Facebook just rolled

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Speaker 2: out fan pages, and Twitter came out two years later,

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Speaker 2: and YouTube was full of cat videos like it was

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Speaker 2: just it was different, and so I never got on

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Speaker 2: social personally. I got on always professionally. My friends in

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Speaker 2: the next generation they've adopted social personally, and then if

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Speaker 2: they get to a place where they want to build

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Speaker 2: a career around it, there's friction because everyone's out to

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Speaker 2: make fun of each other and a lot of ways

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Speaker 2: these social platforms like aggregate trolls and negative commentary and

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Speaker 2: stuff like that. So really, I say all that because

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Speaker 2: you're finding your core as a creator or a manifestor

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Speaker 2: and sharing what it is that you care about is

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Speaker 2: all that matters.

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Speaker 1: I know we're going to have a lot of parents

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Speaker 1: listening to this, So hey, parents listening, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: your journey to Hopkins. You go from twelve years old

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Speaker 1: starting to play lacrosse. Four years later, you're making the

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Speaker 1: varsity team at your public school. You eventually transferred to

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Speaker 1: a private school that excelled in athletics. Right, what was

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Speaker 1: the high school that you transferred into and what was

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Speaker 1: the reason that you went there and how did that

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Speaker 1: kind of like sharpen you athletically.

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Speaker 2: Well, I went to a private school that my mom

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Speaker 2: taught at in montgomery Ville. All the way through eighth

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Speaker 2: grade and then I couldn't wait to go to public

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Speaker 2: school and like spend time with my neighborhood friends. And

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Speaker 2: I was on the lacrosse team at the time, and

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Speaker 2: our coach was the assistant basketball coach, and then he'd

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Speaker 2: missed some practices. My brother was on the team, so

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Speaker 2: a lot of our spring practices were sort of captain's

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Speaker 2: practices anyway, and I was starting to excel at the game,

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Speaker 2: and there was a coach that came to me that

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Speaker 2: inevitably became my next high school coach that said asked me,

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Speaker 2: do you think you played college lacrosse? And that moment,

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Speaker 2: I thought, I think I could. So I went and

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Speaker 2: had a conversation with my parents and we consulted around

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Speaker 2: like the best path forward. So I ended up transferring

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Speaker 2: to Damatha, which is sort of the lowest priced private

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Speaker 2: school in the state of Maryland, and I was given

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Speaker 2: an athletic scholarship, and in a way, I went in

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Speaker 2: my sophomore year and I felt like I was twelve

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Speaker 2: years old again playing lacrosse for the first time, where

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Speaker 2: the team was so good and I wasn't going to

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Speaker 2: start and they had eleven Division one recruits, and I

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00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,639
Speaker 2: just went back to the wall in that canvas and

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Speaker 2: envisioned sort of the motor skills of Andy Gallagher and

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Speaker 2: Billy Looney and Keegan Wilkinson and like the star offensive

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Speaker 2: players on that to matha team at the time, and

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Speaker 2: I tried to emulate it. And I just worked and

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Speaker 2: worked and worked and worked, and then by the time

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Speaker 2: the spring came around, I was starting on the midfield

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Speaker 2: and then I progressed. So that was my story and transferring.

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Speaker 2: It was a really hard decision, and I find the

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Speaker 2: hardest decisions in life are ones that aren't very clear.

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Speaker 2: You know, I probably could have played college lacrosse had

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Speaker 2: I stayed at Wagins Mill, and it's likely that I

399
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Speaker 2: could be sitting here with you today had I stayed there.

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Speaker 2: And I also am pleased with the decision that I made.

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Speaker 2: I had another decision like that in college, and then

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Speaker 2: I had another decision like that in pro and leaving

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Speaker 2: a job that I had to try to become full

404
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Speaker 2: time on lacrosse. I had another decision like that in

405
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Speaker 2: my relationship. I was once married and I went through

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Speaker 2: and there's as humans, we want definitive answers, and they're

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Speaker 2: not there. So the more in tune we can be

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Speaker 2: with our instincts, the better our inner circle is of

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00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 2: friends and advice we can get. The more open we

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Speaker 2: are to feedback and then ultimately just being decisive. And

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Speaker 2: there's this saying that Jeff Bezos has, which is disagree

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Speaker 2: and commit, and that doesn't often happen even at the

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Speaker 2: PLL where we disagree and commit, but it gives you

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Speaker 2: license to be like, Okay, what's most important is you

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Speaker 2: commit to a decision and you see it through and

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Speaker 2: you let go of any hindsight Monday morning quarterback, any regret,

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Speaker 2: and on the other side of it, there's no blame.

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Speaker 2: It's not healthy to go back and be like, you know,

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Speaker 2: if de matha didn't work for me, to go back

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Speaker 2: and be like mom, dad, You know you guys said this.

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Speaker 2: You told me it was a good idea. That doesn't

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Speaker 2: do anyone any service disagree commit or agreeing commit or

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Speaker 2: or decide quickly commit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what's so cool too about you is like

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Speaker 1: there's so many kids like you said before, I love it.

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Speaker 1: You know what, You're so good.

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Speaker 3: We put guys the way the way Paul will like

428
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Speaker 3: answer a question and then go off in this like

429
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Speaker 3: really eloquent direction and then kind of come back to

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Speaker 3: if you're like, okay, so Danatha, you know it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it makes sense why you're for us.

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Speaker 2: Segment TV is not you could get into segment TV.

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Speaker 1: But what I'm hearing from you is like this obsession, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think, what's so cool? And I get obsessed

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Speaker 1: with things too, And obviously you took it to a

436
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 1: whole other level. So I don't want to compare myself

437
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: at all. But growing up, I was the type of

438
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: kid that my mom would literally give us drills in

439
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: the backyard to do every single day, and I loved

440
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 1: playing wallball, and like my favorite memories are being in

441
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: the backyard with my dad playing lacrosse, learning how to

442
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 1: do the rocker step. With the rocker step your your step.

443
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 2: I stepped rockerly, do you know what.

444
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 1: I'm talking about? Are you kind of like going.

445
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 2: I actually did it out of the midfield where I was.

446
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 2: You know, typically a rocker step is for an attack

447
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 2: man when you're coming around the belt and then you

448
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: rocker and get the defender lean in the direction that

449
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 2: you hesitated, and then you come around and shoot. And

450
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 2: I would actually carry up top in rocker and keep

451
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 2: going down the alley and shoot.

452
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 1: So yes, and the amount of times I think it

453
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,719
Speaker 1: was was it you that started that? No, no, no,

454
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 1: I don't forget who it was.

455
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 2: I can really take credit for any move. Maybe a

456
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 2: swim move, yeah, maybe like a really you know, very

457
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 2: fundamental off hip shot on the run down the alley that. Yeah,

458
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 2: I like to swim, maybe because I swam growing up. Well,

459
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 2: I jokes the.

460
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 1: Amount of times my dad practiced the rocker step behind

461
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 1: the goal and like actually in my highlight tip that

462
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: you guys can see on YouTube, there's a video of

463
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: me doing it, and it was just the coolest feeling ever. Actually,

464
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: like nailing it. Isn't that the best feeling when you're

465
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: younger and you practice something over and over and over

466
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 1: again in your backyard and then you do it in

467
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 1: a game in your life.

468
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 2: It felt like an hour ago when I was thinking

469
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 2: about how do I help Kate Cold open this, I'm

470
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: gonna say I want to lift and then I'm going

471
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 2: to challenge or do a race, and I'm going to

472
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 2: try to fooler and get a head start.

473
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: And you nailed it.

474
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 2: Felt good? Yeah, felt good?

475
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: First, first, first try. The first try is always the best.

476
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 2: For sure, always.

477
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 1: But I want to talk about this idea of obsession

478
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 1: because we talked about this earlier on, Like when a

479
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 1: lot of kids sign up for sports. It's like when

480
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: you started in lacrosse, you were like, I want to

481
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: do what my friends are doing. My neighbor gave me

482
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: the stick, he's playing lacrosse. I should play lacrosse. I

483
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: want to be with my friends, socialized, whatever. But you

484
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: got to the point where you were like, I want

485
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 1: to get so good at this that I'm playing like

486
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: the top players on this team. So when you're a

487
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 1: sophomore in high school, like what was your north star?

488
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: I mean it's a great question because you were also

489
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 2: asking I think I like sort of weaved around it

490
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 2: like advice to parents and things of that nature. And

491
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: so parents that are listening that have a son or

492
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 2: daughter that's playing a sport or in the arts or

493
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,479
Speaker 2: what have you, if you want them to excel, you know,

494
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: first check yourself like is this you living your life

495
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: through them? Who wants to excel? Is at them or

496
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 2: is it you? And then move to I think the

497
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 2: most important thing what you're asking are they obsessed. Do

498
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 2: they love it? Can they not put the stick down?

499
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 2: And then your job is to actually penny in the age,

500
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 2: help guide them through that obsession. So for me, I

501
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 2: was so obsessed with lacrosse that practice wasn't a thing.

502
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 2: And I noticed for my peers they were practicing because

503
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: their coach told them to practice. I was practicing because

504
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 2: I just loved lacrosse. And I would be against the

505
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 2: wall at night and my dad would come home from

506
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 2: work and he would pull to the side and turn

507
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 2: on his headlights so I could keep seeing and playing.

508
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 2: And that was like example of just what is what

509
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: is a determining factor if you're a parent, Is your

510
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 2: kid out there? Do they truly love it? That's one,

511
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: And then number two is take a pretty objective eye

512
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 2: into how they're performing. You know, like I get a

513
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: lot of parents that come to me and about like, hey,

514
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: my son, my daughter, they want to play Division one lacrosse.

515
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: And my first question is how are they playing now?

516
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 2: And are they one of the best players on their

517
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: midfield line? Do they start? Are they one of the

518
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: best players on the team when they play games? Are

519
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 2: they one of the best players on the field. Are

520
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 2: they one of the best players in the league, in

521
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: the city, in the state, in the country. And it's

522
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 2: shocking how big the delta is between desire to play

523
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 2: Division one lacrosse and a kid just not being ready

524
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 2: yet to pursue that path of being recruited. And so

525
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: it's not like, Okay, you give me all the answers.

526
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 2: They're saying they're not the best on the team or

527
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: the city, or you're the state or the country. Doesn't

528
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 2: mean they can't be. But your question to me should

529
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: be how can they improve? Not how can they play

530
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: Division one lacrosse?

531
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 1: Right?

532
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 2: And so we skip a lot of steps. So think

533
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 2: about where your daughter, where your son is, focus on

534
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 2: how they can be because recruiting is kind of like

535
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: a first date. You sort of have one shot, and

536
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 2: so you don't want to put yourself out in front

537
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 2: of a coach until you feel like you're at your best.

538
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 2: So work really hard improve be the best version of yourself,

539
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 2: and then take that and see if you want to

540
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: play at the next level.

541
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,719
Speaker 1: We both have talked to a lot of athletes. You're

542
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: an athlete, yourself, greatest of all time lacrosse players, right,

543
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: go on, But I feel like that's a common thread. Right,

544
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: Like when I was interviewing Gabby Thomas, gold medalist Olympic runner, right,

545
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 1: she was saying to me that her favorite thing about

546
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: the sport is the training, and actually racing is the

547
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: cherry on top.

548
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 2: It's an amazing mindset. And Gabby's really astute, Like she

549
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 2: studies the psychology of sport, and you have to be

550
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 2: at the absolute pinnacle of the mind and body to

551
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: play in the Olympics, because she'll train her entire life

552
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 2: and then within Olympics for four years for ten seconds,

553
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 2: you know, and like, so you have to have mental

554
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: fortitude and for for Gabby to get there, you have

555
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: to embrace the grit the training. Lebron James says the

556
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 2: same thing. Just fall in love with the process, not

557
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 2: the outcome. The games are. I had a team former

558
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: Tamosa coach is now the coach of the New York Atlas,

559
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 2: and Mike Presler when I was twenty four playing on

560
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 2: his team and starting at midfield wearing ninety nine. He

561
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 2: would come to me before games to go, Paul, the

562
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: script has already written. That would allow my shoulders to

563
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: relax and just go play because I would sometimes naturally

564
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: when you're playing in a World championship for a gold medal.

565
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: You're so outcome focused, So we're gonna win and we're

566
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: gonna lose. What's the score? How am I playing minute

567
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: by minute, second by second? Get the fuck out of

568
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,479
Speaker 2: that mindset, focus on the work.

569
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: What does your mental prep look like? Gabby talked a

570
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: lot about visualization. What went into your mental prep?

571
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: Before mental prep is preparation, and that's work and studying

572
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: and doing role playing, going back to the field of

573
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: creativity or thinking about scenario planning in the world of business.

574
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: But preparation isn't just about like what the task forthcoming

575
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: is for me? What does what separates I think great

576
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: you know artists or athletes to prepare is they also

577
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 2: work on what could possibly come yet unseen and and

578
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: so prepare. Then then once you have the preparation done

579
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: through the practice and the work, then it's about getting

580
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 2: the mind right. And Gabby references that or other great athletes,

581
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 2: which is, how do you calm the mind? How do

582
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: you make sure your body feels good? You know, all

583
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: of the hundreds of thousands of thoughts settle in before

584
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: high achieving, high performance happens. So what I would do.

585
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 2: And I spent a lot of time as a sports

586
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 2: psychologist guy John ll who was sports psychologists and Major

587
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: League Baseball in the NBA with Team USA, and he

588
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: opened up my whole routine. I used to show up

589
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: at games two hours early to mentally prepare, and then

590
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: I started showing up four and a half hours early.

591
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: And the reason why I was like, Okay, I was

592
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 2: a captain of my team and I was a high performer.

593
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: And to be a captain, you have to cater to

594
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: your teammates. And when they show up two hours before,

595
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: that's time with, not time for yourself. So get there early,

596
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: simple like fundamental shift. Get their early, work on yourself,

597
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 2: go through your physical preparation, your mindset, and then when

598
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 2: the team comes, you're there as a leader. So I

599
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: changed the timeframe and then what I do is I

600
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 2: used to take a pregame nap. He was like, cut

601
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: the nap. And the reason why he asked me that

602
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: is do you nap during the rest of the week.

603
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: I was like no, and he was like, so, why

604
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: would you nap before game? It seems pretty risky. I

605
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: was like, because I'm nervous or whatever, and got a

606
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: long time to wait for the stop. So go for

607
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: a walk, do something you enjoy, go to cinema And

608
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 2: then I would bring a notepad and I'd pack an

609
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: extra lunch because I be at in the locker room

610
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: four hours before. So there's the emotionality of like what

611
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: helps you as a high performer, And then there's the

612
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,959
Speaker 2: tactics and having a good support system therapist, sports psychologist,

613
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 2: a teammate, a coach who can say, like, tactically, what

614
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 2: can we do to change this environment so you feel better?

615
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 2: Is important.

616
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: You were on a podcast The Deal with Jason Kelly

617
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: and a Rod and I think you guys were talking

618
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: a little bit about sports psychology and I loved what

619
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: you and a Rod called it. You called it performance training.

620
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: Essentially, it's about framing and we do it naturally as

621
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: humans and we don't realize that's what we're doing, but

622
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: it's so important to develop that skill. The other side

623
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 2: of the coin is the phrase right, So, especially when

624
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: you're faced with challenges, it's looking those challenges dead on

625
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: and understanding why and taking an accountability and doing the work.

626
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: And then you have to reframe and that's like the

627
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 2: positive outlook, what are we going to get out of

628
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: this right, So the business faces a challenge. Instead of

629
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: going it's not working, you recognize that challenge to make change,

630
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: and then if the change is right, you come on

631
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: the other end and then you actually are glad that

632
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 2: that challenge happened. So a reframe. I joke sometimes because

633
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: Martin SCORSESEI is my favorite director, and he did The

634
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 2: Irishman and Robert de Niro totally strange comparison said that

635
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: he paints houses and he was basically like a hitman, right,

636
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: And I often think that I work in a frame

637
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 2: shop and I frame pictures for a living, and that's

638
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: a good thing. You want to make sure that you're

639
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: constantly wrapping all of the challenges and life's unexpected circumstances

640
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: with positivity.

641
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, my first job actually was working in

642
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: a frame shop.

643
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 2: Was it look at that if you sit around with

644
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 2: another person long enough and you're present and you're conscious

645
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: and you connect as beans were the same, and I

646
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: believe than our psychic abilities, and I had no idea

647
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: about you that you were. You know, it worked at

648
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 2: a frame shop for your first job. We're kind of

649
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: in flow.

650
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: Let's talk about recruiting. I liked on the deal. How

651
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: you were saying how lacrosse now is just like fundamentally

652
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: different than it was when you were in the process

653
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: of recruiting. But why Hopkins and how did getting recruiting

654
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: there come to be? And were you considering other schools?

655
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: Like what was that process?

656
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: Like, Well, Hopkins was sort of fourth or fifth on

657
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 2: my list of choices.

658
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: What was number one?

659
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: North Carolina? My dad went to the University of North Carolina.

660
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 2: I've had twenty two relatives that have gone through Chapel Hill,

661
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 2: and you know, I idolized Michael Jordan and Dean Smith

662
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 2: and then Bill Guthridge, and like I wanted to go

663
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: to basketball games every other night and just generally like

664
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 2: I went to basketball camp when I was younger. And

665
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: then it sort of moved through the ACC because if

666
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: you'd watched March Madness with your dad and like Carolina

667
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 2: gets knocked off, then you support the other ACC school.

668
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 2: So I looked at Virginia and then now Syracuse is

669
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 2: in it in the ACC, but was different than in

670
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 2: Maryland and Duke and then Hopkins. And I didn't like

671
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: Hopkins for a couple of reasons. It was local and

672
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 2: I had this sort of urge as any teenager would

673
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 2: to go out and move somewhere else. But they had

674
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: also been the number one team in the country for

675
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 2: the last four years with number one classes, And the

676
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: note that I was getting from my friends and parents

677
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 2: and lacrosse commentators is that if you go to Hopkins,

678
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to wait till your junior year to play.

679
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 2: And then I met Dave Petramala, who was my head

680
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 2: coach eventually my head coach, and the way that he

681
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: recruited and built relationships was extraordinary, and I just I

682
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 2: just cared about this man, and I aligned with what

683
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 2: he stood for his core values, and I felt that

684
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 2: he was being honest to me. I remember him cutting

685
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 2: out a newspaper clipping and whiting out the name of

686
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 2: the player who scored the game winning goal in the

687
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 2: previous year in the championship game, and wrote my name

688
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 2: in there. And he was telling me that I was

689
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 2: going to play and have an impact on the team

690
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 2: my freshman year. And everyone else was telling me that

691
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 2: he was full of shit and that they had all

692
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 2: these great players and he just wanted to keep stacking classes.

693
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: But I believed him, and you know, when we would

694
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: talk on a recruiting call every week, as they could

695
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: call once a week. We'd talk for an hour some

696
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 2: time an hour and a half. I didn't think much

697
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 2: of it as a seventeen year old at a time,

698
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: but now as an almost forty year old, I look

699
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: back and like, if I'm going to call a sixteen

700
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 2: or seventeen year old, it's probably ten minutes maybe at best.

701
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 2: The hell am I going to talk about? But that's

702
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: how most of my recruiting calls went. I'd get a

703
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 2: call from Carolina and Syracuse, Virginia, dude, and we talked

704
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: for twelve minutes. And Petra was so invested in his players.

705
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 2: That's why the team was so good. And I ended

706
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 2: up changing my entire sort of plan and they went

707
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 2: from number five to number one, and I decided and committed,

708
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 2: and it was the best decision I'd made.

709
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: That's such a testament to who he was as a

710
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: person to like take it. I mean, also, he could

711
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: tell that you were going to be this rock star.

712
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: I think that was pretty clear by the time you

713
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 1: were junior senior in high school. So he obviously saw

714
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: something in you. But just that he gave you that

715
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: type of attention. Also, it's rare to have like those

716
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 1: types of role models in your life, and like when

717
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: you get to have one as your coach, it's like

718
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: so much more impactful. What would your advice be to,

719
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: you know, college athletes starting their freshman seasons?

720
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 2: I wish I had a better answer for you, because

721
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 2: I don't know it, and I don't think anyone knows it,

722
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 2: which makes sports so fascinating. But what I believe to

723
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 2: be true for me is that I dream big and

724
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: I work small, and dreaming big is scary, and dreaming

725
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 2: big also means articulating those dreams. I think a lot

726
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: of those kids in the room when we were in

727
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 2: eighth grade had their hands up, because who doesn't want

728
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 2: to play Division one lacrosse on a full scholarship if

729
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 2: that's the sport of your choice? But what do you

730
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 2: do after that? Right? And there is a small, only

731
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 2: a small segment of people that actually have these speculative

732
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 2: ambitions to be the best. It's not for everyone, and

733
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: it's pretty lonely, and it's fucking hard and it doesn't

734
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 2: get easier. But if you have that dream, you might

735
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 2: as well embrace it. And part of I think what

736
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 2: deters people from embracing is today's environment of social media

737
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 2: and the negativity and the calling out by even your

738
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: own peer group. But part of the path of dreaming

739
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 2: big is articulating that dream. And I used to tell

740
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: people I want to be the best. I used to

741
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,439
Speaker 2: tell people I wanted to be a four time first

742
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 2: team All American and win four Street National championships. And

743
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 2: I didn't do either of those, but I had to

744
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 2: say it to stand a chance to accomplish it. And

745
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 2: then you tuck those dreams away and you work small,

746
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: and that's the hundred shot today. That's you know, sometimes

747
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: measuring yourself up against the work ethic of the senior

748
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 2: captain on the team, and like, are they showing I'm

749
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 2: show up earlier. I used to study Michael Jordan and

750
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 2: that was his thing is he would always challenge at

751
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 2: any age, the best player in the court to a

752
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: one on one after practice. And that's scary for a

753
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 2: lot of people because what's on the other side of

754
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: losing that game? You lose all your confidence. You're not

755
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: who you thought you were. People are afraid of competition,

756
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 2: and so you have to embrace that, and that comes

757
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: with building a relationship with failure, which is inevitable, and

758
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 2: then just keep fucking going. And uh, that's what I did.

759
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 2: I went to Hopkins. I was told by a lot

760
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 2: of people I wouldn't start. Petro didn't. By the way,

761
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 2: I did not guarantee me that I would start. He

762
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 2: just knew that I could contribute to the team. And

763
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 2: I didn't start in Game one. And then in Game three,

764
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 2: we were at Syracuse in the Dome, down seven to

765
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: one at halftime, and I was playing second line midfield

766
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 2: and he goes, Paul, You're playing first line midfield the

767
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 2: second half, and I scored four goals and we won

768
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: in overtime, and I started for the rest of my career.

769
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: So it's just being opportunistic and being hungry for it and.

770
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: Having that confidence and knowing that you can do it,

771
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: and like being able to rise to the occasion, you know,

772
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: one hundred.

773
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: Percent, and confidence comes from your preparation and your mindset.

774
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: That was in two thousand and five. You were a freshman,

775
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: right two thousand and five, Hopkins wins the national championship,

776
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: You're on the team. Pretty incredible high for a kid

777
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: that's saying I'm going to win four national championships. You're

778
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: probably thinking we're enough strong, Yeah.

779
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: And we're not going to lose because that year we

780
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: went undefeated as well, so it was like, Okay, I'm

781
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 2: going to finish my four year career undefeated in national.

782
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: Didn't come close to that.

783
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: I was at the game when it was Hopkins versus

784
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: Syracuse in the National Championship where Syracuse won. But I

785
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: have pictures of myself like in a Hopkins church, so

786
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: I'm supporting you. Wow, isn't that crazy? We would go,

787
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: oh my, like my whole life was in those early years.

788
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: My dad would take us to all the Final four tournaments.

789
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: So fun, so fun. Ah, just a great celebration of

790
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: the sport. The Final four is Yeah.

791
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: Well, two thousand and five, you guys win the National championship.

792
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: You also went in two thousand and seven. I have

793
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: a few questions here. First, I want to know, like

794
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: what did the evolution of Paul look like in those years?

795
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: How did your game change? And like did you become

796
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: more of a leader on the team?

797
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, more and more competitive And I got my big

798
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 2: pop in competitive juice from Petro. He's still probably the

799
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: most competitive man I've ever been around. And then he

800
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: paired me when I was a freshman with our senior

801
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: captain and won the towurt On that year, which is

802
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 2: our Heisman trophy of lacrosse, and that's Kyle Harrison. Even

803
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 2: on my recruiting visit, I stayed with him as a junior,

804
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: and typically on recruiting visits you stay with freshmen. So

805
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 2: Petro always put me to that standard. And I remember

806
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 2: even in the off season doing sprints next to Kyle,

807
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 2: lifting with Kyle, and then I was playing with Kyle.

808
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 2: So when Kyle graduated, I was like, Okay, I gotta

809
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 2: be Kyle. And that was a shift in leadership because

810
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: as a freshman on a team you can just play,

811
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: and as a sophomore and now thwarted in the position

812
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 2: of best on the team, you need to lead. And

813
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 2: that was a struggle. And I still feel like leadership

814
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: is today and no one ever gets it right. You

815
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 2: just it's a journey, and so you learn different things

816
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: along the way. And I would say a difference between

817
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: college and then as I got into pro and now

818
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 2: as an entrepreneur and the stuff that I do today,

819
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: my temperament has shifted each time. In college, it was

820
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 2: very much like high demanding of teammates at all costs,

821
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 2: and that was pretty ruthless, and that carried on through

822
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: probably my three or first four years in the pros,

823
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: where you know, I'd fight team mates in practice sometimes

824
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: if they weren't meeting my expectations and what I knew

825
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: as someone who experienced success early because of others, it

826
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 2: took to be great, the standards really high. Go back

827
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: to Michael Jordan, like trying to emulate him. He fought

828
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 2: teammates in practice and it was like if you weren't

829
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: at his standard, you were out, and then that wears

830
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 2: on you and so like, the part two of leadership

831
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 2: was as I got probably in the middle of my

832
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 2: pro career, and that's when I was introduced to John

833
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,720
Speaker 2: Elliott as a sports psychologist, and I shifted more towards

834
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 2: being hyper competitive and compassionate and understanding that not all

835
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 2: players on the team, even at the pro level. This

836
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 2: is in the NBA, the NFL, the pl the NHL

837
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 2: are alphas at one point they were. But you need

838
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 2: even in business, you need A players, B players, C

839
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 2: players because if you have a bunch of A players,

840
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: no one's going to do the B work, which is

841
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 2: a lot of the support work and sort of like

842
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 2: the gritty stuff, getting tough ground balls, taking wings of

843
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 2: face offs, making the right first pass right a lot.

844
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 2: If you have a bunch of eight players all want

845
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 2: the ball and they're stick, you have one ball and

846
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: six offensive players, it's not going to work. So a

847
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 2: general and wider understanding calms you down. And now, professionally,

848
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 2: outside of playing, my leadership, I would say is is

849
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 2: focused on being present and supportive, still competitive and motivational,

850
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: but you know, keeping the moments of grabbing teammates by

851
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 2: the collar and saying like let's go and firing them up,

852
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 2: because if I'm in that position now, it means I

853
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: haven't brought on the right people at the company. And

854
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: fortunately we've done a good job of that, so I

855
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 2: actually get a lot of push from them.

856
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: I remember being in high school and being even just

857
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: like at track practices and when I was a freshman,

858
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: I was varsity cross country, varsity track, varsity lacrosse, and

859
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: I remember my winter track season, I was doing drills

860
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: with this girl. We were doing like a running I

861
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: don't even know exercise, I guess, and I took everything

862
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: I did seriously because I didn't know any better. And

863
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: I remember she said something where she kind of embarrassed

864
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: me in front of like all these girls, and I

865
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: was this young girl where I just assumed everybody tried hard,

866
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: but she ended up getting kicked out of the practice

867
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 1: for kind of putting me down for trying hard. And

868
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: I just like the way you said it because it

869
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: was definitely a common theme for me in sports where

870
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: if people weren't trying hard enough, I would get like

871
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: frustrated because you just want people to care as much

872
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: as you do, and at the end of the day,

873
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 1: nobody's going to care.

874
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 2: I heard I heard Travis Scott say this once in

875
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: an interview, but he was basically lamenting on You're going

876
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 2: to make fun of me for trying hard. You're going

877
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: to make fun of me for caring. Fuck you.

878
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: Isn't it crazy that it's a common experience though with

879
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: high achievers.

880
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, you will face that and ask yourself like core,

881
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 2: you know, core roots of integrity, that running your system

882
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 2: is not trying hard the way No, so as.

883
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: People that both love you and c I've got a

884
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: fiance that went to UNC that was like my dream

885
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: school when I was playing lacrosse. You loved unc. I've

886
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: got brothers that beat Duke in one national championship. There's

887
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 1: just nothing better than beating Duke.

888
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I guess I got a head start

889
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 2: with my dad because we supported Chapel Hill and the

890
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: tar Heels and like you hated the Cameron crazies and

891
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 2: you spelt Duke d okay, and so it's an easy

892
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 2: opponent to dislike. And then I grew up in Maryland,

893
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,359
Speaker 2: so the Terrapins at the time with Garry Williams, they

894
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 2: were going against the JJ redixs of Ward, who's a

895
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 2: wonderful human being and coach k is one of the

896
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 2: greatest coaches of all time in any sport.

897
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 1: They're just so good at everything.

898
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 2: It's just one of the things that's like human nature.

899
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 2: And I it's interesting, like with all the sort of

900
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: sports psychology and therapy and all the RESET had to

901
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 2: do in my life and match that with being in

902
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 2: the business of sport for a living, is it actually

903
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: pulled back from fandom, which is ironic given that, like

904
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 2: fandom is the heartbeat of what we do. But I

905
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,280
Speaker 2: love Duke, and I love Hopkins, and I love Carolina,

906
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: and I love Maryland, and I get where everyone's coming from.

907
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: It's just that that collegiate money.

908
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 2: But it felt good. It felt good at the time

909
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 2: to kick their ass.

910
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got that's the winner mentality and you okay, Well,

911
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: after college you start playing in the MLL, But you

912
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: also had a real estate job, right, You played in

913
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 1: the MLL for eleven seasons before starting your own professional league.

914
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: What were the foundational or like fundamental things that were

915
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: going on in the MLL that you were like, we

916
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: need to change.

917
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, because I had a job in real estate.

918
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 2: That was like point number one as to why or

919
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 2: what MLL needed to change. Is like no one really

920
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 2: talked to it. And the fact that I was one

921
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: of the top players in the country and just coming

922
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 2: off national championship games and playing in front of half

923
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 2: a million people on TV and fifty thousand people in

924
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: a stadium and not thinking about professional something wrong there.

925
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 2: Then you look at why I couldn't. My rookie wage

926
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: was six thousand dollars. So by the time I got

927
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: through that singular focus of college and shifted into pros

928
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: and I was drafted to play at the time for

929
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 2: the Boston Cannons. I had taken this job so I

930
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 2: could actually have income. I moved back home with my

931
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 2: parents so I could focus on my practice and becoming

932
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 2: better against that same wall I grew up against. And

933
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 2: then within sort of six months and the adoption of

934
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 2: social media and the challenge that I was given by

935
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 2: my first agent who told me, you know, the peak

936
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 2: moment is behind us. It was your senior year on

937
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 2: that national championship stage. Let's try to get as much

938
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 2: three year sponsorship income as we can. YadA yadah. I

939
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 2: was like, okay, you're not for me. We parted ways,

940
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 2: and that was that challenge that I needed to be like,

941
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: all right, I'm gonna prove this wrong. And I left

942
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 2: my job in real estate and I got back to center,

943
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 2: which was I love this game. I want to be

944
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 2: the best player in the league. I want to be

945
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: the best player in the world. I want to be

946
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 2: one of the best players to have ever played this game.

947
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 2: I need to focus on it. And so the storytelling

948
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 2: and the creativity led to would inevitably be that income

949
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 2: that I'd lost by leaving my job, which was sponsorship dollars.

950
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 2: So I got to deal with under armour and then

951
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: Red Bull and GoPro and then I switched over to

952
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: New Balance, and I was telling stories across YouTube and

953
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 2: Instagram and Facebook and Twitter, and then I started doing

954
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 2: commercials and it was an extraordinary experience. But what was

955
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 2: sort of the cloud hanging over us is as I

956
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 2: was growing and sort of defying the odds of what

957
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 2: my first agent told me, that the pro game was

958
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 2: actually getting worse. The crowds were shrinking and the network

959
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 2: deal went away, and sponsorships were minimalizing, and weirdly, participation

960
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 2: in the college game kept growing. And then I looked

961
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 2: across the aisle and MLS was growing and UFC was growing.

962
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 2: Why not lacrosse? Not classically trained as an entrepreneur, didn't

963
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:39,240
Speaker 2: have my MBA. But I began scratching my head. And

964
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 2: my brother, who was working in Silicon Valley at the time,

965
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 2: was looking to potentially leave his software company that he

966
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 2: was running on the revenue side and start something new.

967
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 2: And we sat together and we talked about lacrosse, and

968
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 2: neither of us had any pro sports operating background, but

969
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 2: that was fuel and we had probably three years of

970
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 2: conversation with mL owners, with venture capitalists, with NBA, NFL commissioners,

971
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 2: and learned and we built this hypothesis that tied why

972
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 2: pro lacrosse hadn't worked with why we thought it could,

973
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: and we began to quietly take that out to market.

974
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: But the ultruism behind it was in the lesson that

975
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 2: I was learning through leadership at that stage of my life,

976
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 2: which was sharing and the growth that you get through numbers.

977
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 2: And so if there were more full time professional acrosse

978
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 2: players that could afford to do it like I was

979
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 2: because of sponsorship and media, well let's create a bigger

980
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 2: and better platform for them to do that and watch

981
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 2: the sport growth.

982
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: What I love about what you said at the beginning

983
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 1: of that was you were having this incredible experience personally

984
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: getting all these incredible sponsorships. Paul Rabel was becoming this

985
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: massive icon of the sport and in just athletics. But

986
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 1: you literally said to yourself, well, if the league itself

987
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: is dying, I don't care about my personal brand. And

988
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 1: I think that speaks so much to your character and

989
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: just how much you love the sport.

990
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, And I would say, like, I've transitioned

991
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 2: more into a host and to a curator, and I'm

992
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: still on screens, but I'd like to think that I'm

993
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 2: on screen articulating different messages. When I was doing it

994
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: early on, it was about, you know, me as a

995
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 2: professional lacrosse player, and the work I was doing in

996
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:33,280
Speaker 2: lacrosse obviously permeated through whatever medium I was on because

997
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 2: that was what I was doing. And now on screen

998
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 2: talking about the pl the history of the sport, the

999
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 2: future of the sport, the Olympics, the men's and the

1000
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 2: women's game, the stars in both of those games, and

1001
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 2: that's that's that's a new sort of experience for me.

1002
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 2: And I like the art of presenting and storytelling and

1003
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 2: I hope that I'll always be fortunate enough to do it.

1004
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: When you were first starting out the PLL, would you

1005
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 1: say your edge was that you were the best player

1006
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: in the MLL and one of the best players in

1007
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: the game, and so you were able to successfully recruit

1008
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: people to come play for the PLL.

1009
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it goes back to relationships, and it's the question

1010
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 2: z Apropoa, the earlier one you asked about Petro, which was,

1011
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 2: you know, the relationship that you build are the most

1012
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 2: important in any business, and the trust and the relationship

1013
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 2: you build your audience. As a creator or podcaster an

1014
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 2: author is more important than the content on the pages

1015
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 2: or what comes through the mic. And I didn't know

1016
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 2: that I was going to start a new league with

1017
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 2: my brother, But what I was focused on was building good, sound,

1018
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 2: healthy competitive relationships with my peers, my teammates, and my competitors.

1019
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 2: And we were butt heads on the field, but there's

1020
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 2: this level of mutual respect that you have, and because

1021
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 2: I was doing it off the field, they trusted that

1022
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 2: I could sort of meet the promise is that we

1023
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 2: were putting out to them that we could do it

1024
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 2: with them, and had we not had that inside or

1025
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 2: what an investor would say, is your unfair advantage? Right?

1026
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 2: Great venture capitalists will say they look for founders that

1027
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 2: exhibit ABC and hard and soft skills, but more importantly,

1028
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 2: do they have an unfair advantage? Otherwise you're just competing.

1029
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 2: And I think our time, at the time, our unfair

1030
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 2: advantage was our relationship with the players, and the Achilles

1031
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: heel of the former league was that we were all

1032
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 2: under one year contracts, so in effect, we could sign

1033
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: people overnight and start a new league. Can't do that

1034
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 2: in the NBA or the NFL right now. The contract

1035
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 2: terms are staggered. You could start a competitive league, but

1036
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,439
Speaker 2: you're not going to get everyone at once, and we

1037
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 2: pretty much literally got everyone at once. We got one

1038
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 2: hundred and forty guys overnight. We just took them the

1039
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 2: hundred All of our contracts expired, including myself, so I

1040
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 2: was doing it with them, which was part of the relationship.

1041
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 1: How did the MLL feel about the what the heck

1042
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,240
Speaker 1: is going on? Yeah, they didn't like our best player

1043
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 1: is taking our best players.

1044
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were livid. They were really pissed. But in

1045
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 2: fairness to us, we in our original goal was to

1046
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 2: try to build a new league with m so we

1047
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 2: went in with capital to them and said, we can

1048
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 2: buy you, we can invest in you, here's our plan.

1049
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 2: And understandably so, I often think back of if I

1050
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,879
Speaker 2: was the investor looking at Paul and Mike Rabel coming

1051
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 2: into the room that had no sports experience, that had capital,

1052
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 2: that said they could build a better mouse trap, I

1053
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 2: would have said too risky, they don't know.

1054
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 1: I'd say no, not the mouse trap analogy.

1055
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so it was sort of like that. That

1056
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 2: was the mindset. So I get it, but I was pissed,

1057
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 2: and you know, sort of the more you know, the

1058
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 2: more you don't. Was the was the unveil of like, okay, uh,

1059
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 2: they told us no, they told us now again, they

1060
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,479
Speaker 2: told us no a third time. But each of those times,

1061
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 2: we've learned more and what else can we learn and

1062
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 2: let's go out and explore. And we got to that

1063
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 2: place pretty quickly. That's why our business model shifted too.

1064
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 2: And we were learning from why MLL failed. Weren't just

1065
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 2: blaming you know, they just don't know what they're doing. No,

1066
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 2: we were learning what the audience wanted, how small the

1067
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 2: audience was, what we could do differently, and we were

1068
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,240
Speaker 2: presenting that all in stealth mode, is what an entrepreneur

1069
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 2: would say, because in an industry that's really public facing,

1070
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 2: like sports, you can get competitive and litigious and like

1071
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 2: really difficult, so you have to do things quietly. And

1072
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 2: it's like when the Baltimore Colts moved out of Maryland,

1073
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 2: it was overnight, and so that's what it felt like

1074
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 2: with the poll. We kind of pulled the players overnight

1075
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,760
Speaker 2: and we were all under nda and then it happened

1076
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,720
Speaker 2: and everyone said we're going to fail, and we kept.

1077
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 1: Building and you're not just a former lacrosse player and

1078
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 1: the best lacrosse player of all time. The future of

1079
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 1: the sport is in your hands. Do you feel that pressure?

1080
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 2: I feel pressure. I feel pressure, and I think it's

1081
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 2: because I care so much about the game and I

1082
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 2: realize that I'm really fortunate to be in a leadership

1083
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 2: position to actually impact change. And so the pressure is

1084
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 2: are we doing the right things? Are we taking the

1085
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 2: right bets? Are we being measured? Are we also being ambitious?

1086
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: Are we doing this with integrity? Are we communicating with everyone?

1087
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 2: Does everyone feel seen? Cross players to casual fans that

1088
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 2: were bringing in a lot of pressure. But then I

1089
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 2: tell myself and remind myself that this game was a

1090
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 2: gift from the creator. It was built in spirituality. It

1091
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: was known as the medicine game. The harder you play,

1092
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 2: the greater the medicine. It was used to solve conflict,

1093
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 2: and then it was used in exhibition where the people

1094
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 2: from the Anadoga nation called it de honti quajas, which

1095
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 2: means they bump hips. Turton in Mohawk means little brother

1096
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 2: of war and bigataway is another name for lacrosse. It's

1097
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 2: called the net game. So which within each of those

1098
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:10,879
Speaker 2: original names of the sport that we played today called

1099
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 2: lacrosse is a different intent, and so you can calm

1100
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 2: your nerves if you ever feel pressure in whatever it

1101
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 2: is you do, by thinking about the history and those

1102
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 2: who came before you, and how fortunate we are to

1103
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 2: be where we are today.

1104
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 1: I think there's like a common thread thread with successful people,

1105
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: especially ones that I've interviewed, like yourself, where it's like,

1106
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: even in the face of hard times where people are

1107
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: telling you no, the people that come out on top

1108
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: and succeed are the ones that just keep going. And

1109
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: you and your brother just kept going, learning along the way,

1110
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: and now you could literally do anything. In twenty twenty,

1111
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: the PLL and the MLL ended up merging and emotional experience.

1112
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 2: It was it was and it was really important. So

1113
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 2: we ended up turning around and merging with Major League

1114
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 2: Lacrosse in twenty twenty after sort of the bubble seasons

1115
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 2: of playing during the pandemic, and that helped resolve the

1116
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 2: conflict that existed within lacrosse fans and the zeitgeist of lacrosse.

1117
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 2: It also gave us, at the time twenty years of

1118
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 2: pro lacrosse history to bolt onto our broadcast and begin

1119
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 2: telling stories and consolidating stats of players who've done both

1120
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 2: and players who retired we never got to play in

1121
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 2: the POL. So we announced the Professional Lacrosse Hall of

1122
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 2: Fame for the first time where we could recognize those

1123
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 2: first players in two thousand and two thousand and one,

1124
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 2: and that was so important and something that I'm really

1125
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 2: grateful for.

1126
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing to be able to merge a new

1127
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: league with the history of an old league and just

1128
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: the commonality of everybody loves the sport. So it's like,

1129
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 1: you want the sport to win. Where do you see

1130
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: lacrosse going? Like, what is the future of the sport

1131
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: in your mind?

1132
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 2: Well, I want speaking of dreaming big, I want to

1133
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 2: be a top five team sports league in North America.

1134
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 2: And so we all know the Big four, the NBA,

1135
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 2: the NFL, the NHL, and Major League Baseball, and then

1136
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 2: you have MLS. Then you have like individual sports like

1137
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 2: the UFC. You have the emergence of the WNBA and

1138
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 2: a team sports side and the NWSL and super competitive.

1139
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 2: But you have to set those big dreams and the

1140
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 2: you have to work small. For me, you know, I

1141
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 2: look at other ways to grow I call them third doors.

1142
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 2: But getting lacrosse back into the Olympics is going to

1143
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 2: be really advantageous for the sports growth. Getting a documentary

1144
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 2: down on the pl called Fate of a Sport, writing

1145
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 2: a book called The Way of the Champion, doing a

1146
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 2: series right now with ESPN called Rabeles Places. I'm working on,

1147
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 2: you know, a motion picture. And then the last third

1148
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 2: door that I'd say is like participation, so access, getting

1149
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 2: more sticks in hands and goals on field, and you

1150
00:59:58,040 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 2: do that through a nonprofit approach, you can throw it

1151
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 2: through public lobbying. Right now, there's twenty eight states, Nevada

1152
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 2: being the most recent that sanction high school boys and

1153
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 2: girls across which gets us our equipment. So we talked

1154
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 2: about when we were running such that we can try

1155
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 2: and play and fall in love before we buy. So

1156
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 2: I'm going to flip the other twenty two states, and

1157
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 2: that takes a lot of public and lobbying efforts. Those

1158
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 2: things actually help the PLL and the WL grow, and

1159
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 2: I anticipate over the next three to four years us

1160
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 2: bringing on owners of teams that in building stadiums or

1161
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 2: inhabiting existing stadiums, continuing with our network partner in ESPN,

1162
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 2: and growing the visibility of the sport and all of

1163
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 2: that we got to get right. So it is really

1164
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 2: like trying to boil the ocean. But we have an

1165
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 2: amazing team, we have a great mission, we have company

1166
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 2: values that are core align with us as individuals, and yeah,

1167
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 2: I think we're going to do it.

1168
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: I think you're going to do it too. I'm a

1169
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: big fan of the sport. I come through from a

1170
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 1: lacrosse family. My dad didn't play lacrosse growing up. My

1171
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: mom didn't play lacrosse, but they just fell in love

1172
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 1: with it. My dad still goes to a lot of

1173
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 1: the college games. He loves going to the Final four tournament.

1174
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: I mean, he's just such a fan. He wears his

1175
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: yell La Crosse Polo proudly, and he's very involved with

1176
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 1: this organization called Harlem Lacrosse. So for people that and

1177
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 1: parents out there that love the sport not only for

1178
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: their kids, but also just for future generations, what can

1179
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 1: we be doing to continue educating people on the sport

1180
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: and making it more accessible.

1181
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I would say two things, because

1182
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 2: at a high level, I would love this to tell

1183
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 2: people give him instructions or manuals. But like I'm lucky

1184
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 2: enough to be paid to work alongside great people whose

1185
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 2: responsibility is to grow the PLLWL in the game at large,

1186
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 2: and that takes a lot of work and resilience. So

1187
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 2: if people do want to chip in, like your dad

1188
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 2: and like yourself, I would say two things. One sort

1189
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 2: of metaphorically that helped me is that give your backup

1190
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 2: stick to someone who's never played before, like my neighbor

1191
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 2: did to me. Introduce them to the game. It could

1192
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 2: be through a stick, it could be through watch, telling

1193
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 2: them to watch the poll, bringing them to a game.

1194
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 2: And then the other thing I would say would would

1195
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 2: be to invest in the community. Invest in your community.

1196
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 2: And if you're a parent and you want to, you know,

1197
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 2: be an assistant coach or volunteer coach. You know my

1198
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 2: dad did that. My dad was our swimming coach, our

1199
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 2: basketball coach, our soccer coach, and sort of touch lacrosse

1200
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 2: not still still learning the rules. Now he'll get mad

1201
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 2: at me for that.

1202
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: But didn't he send you an email before like all

1203
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: of your games?

1204
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:57,439
Speaker 2: Every single game is an amazing man.

1205
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: I would literally have those framed Yeah my hallway in

1206
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: my house.

1207
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 2: Oh so good. Yeah, he would. He would write me

1208
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 2: an email all the way through my pro career, so

1209
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 2: college and pro before every game and give me insights

1210
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 2: and his thoughts, and he would be nervous and then

1211
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 2: he'd say prayer at the end of the email. So yeah,

1212
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 2: I would say, give your backup, stick to a friend,

1213
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 2: watch the PLL, watch the WL, and contribute to the community.

1214
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 1: You're a writer, your producer, You're working on so much

1215
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: even outside of just lacrosse. So five, ten, twenty years

1216
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 1: from now, where do you want to be and what

1217
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 1: do you want your legacy to be.

1218
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 2: I want to keep storytelling and I want to keep

1219
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 2: trying new things. And so twenty years from now, I

1220
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 2: hope to still be involved in the PL and the WL.

1221
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 2: I hope that it is a top sport in America

1222
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 2: that's continually played in the Olympics. And I hope that

1223
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 2: I am also going to be venturing into new things

1224
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 2: that are big and scary, like directing, producing, writing more.

1225
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 2: But ultimately kind of going back to what my parents

1226
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 2: did for me is be spiritual and care about family.

1227
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 2: So be a good partner, be a good father. That

1228
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 2: is that's our legacy. If there is a legacy that

1229
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 2: we can leave.

1230
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 1: I have to tell you this really quickly as we

1231
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: wrap up. When I was in sixth grade, I wrote

1232
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: a letter to myself. It was an assignment my teacher

1233
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 1: had us do, and in the letter we wrote where

1234
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: we see ourselves in ten fifteen years.

1235
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 2: And in that.

1236
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: Letter I wrote, I said, you know, you're going to

1237
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: be a D one lacrosse player and you're going to

1238
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 1: be on the cover of Lax magazine standing next to

1239
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 1: your two brothers right now. That did not happen. Obviously,

1240
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 1: my life took me in a different direction. But I

1241
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 1: do have to say I am sitting in front of,

1242
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: proudly in front of one of the best, if not

1243
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 1: the best player of all time, and I just have

1244
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 1: to say, I think my twelve year old self is

1245
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 1: freaking out right now.

1246
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 2: Oh you're so sweet. You're so sweet. And I had

1247
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 2: a similar experience when I was twelve, but I don't

1248
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 2: want to He's.

1249
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 1: Like, but I did go on the cover of.

1250
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 2: Black Suth, No, no, no, it was different. I actually

1251
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 2: in art class we were doing portraits and I decided

1252
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 2: to go more abstract, and I drew myself as a

1253
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 2: WWE superstar with the people's eyebrow of the rock because

1254
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 2: I was obsessed with them, and I wanted to meet

1255
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 2: the Rock, and when I met the Rock, that felt

1256
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 2: like manifestation, so such a powerful thing. I appreciate you

1257
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 2: saying that, and I would I would respond by saying,

1258
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 2: you're doing far bigger and greater things, and it's been

1259
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 2: really fun to spend time together and watch you continue

1260
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 2: to do what you do.

1261
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: That's a wrap on today's episode. Huge, thank you for

1262
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 1: listening all the way through. If this conversation resonated with you,

1263
01:05:57,880 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: it would mean a lot if you took a moment

1264
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 1: to and review our show and share it with a friend. Also,

1265
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel at kate max,

1266
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: where you can watch all the video versions of our episodes,

1267
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: and lastly, follow the show at Post run High and

1268
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 1: me at Kate Max on Instagram to stay up to

1269
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 1: date on everything we've got going on. We've got so

1270
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:21,439
Speaker 1: many more incredible guests and powerful stories coming your way,

1271
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 1: so I'll see you guys next week.