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Speaker 1: Guess what will what's that mango? So I think you

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Speaker 1: know I'm a procrastinator.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know that at this point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the sort of person who always does my

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Speaker 1: research immediately or like buy supplies ahead of time because

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Speaker 1: I like to be prepared. And then traditionally I tend

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Speaker 1: to wait till the last minute to write my essays

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Speaker 1: or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Actually, I liked that story you told me about how

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Speaker 2: your parents kind of conditioned you to become a procrastinator.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so when I was a kid, for like book

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Speaker 1: reports or diramas or whatever, like, it was always the same.

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Speaker 1: I just wait till the last minute, and then my

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Speaker 1: parents would stay up with me, and since I was up,

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Speaker 1: they'd make or order pizza. And then I'd be like

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Speaker 1: nine or nine thirty and like Mystery was on PBS,

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Speaker 1: so we'd stay up to watch the Sherlock Holmes with

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Speaker 1: my mom, and you know, since I was up, they'd

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Speaker 1: also like open a box of ice cream and we

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Speaker 1: eat that together. And then in the morning, like my

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Speaker 1: little sister would wake up and see a pizza box

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Speaker 1: and an ice cream carton and be like, you had

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Speaker 1: another party without me.

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Speaker 3: That's great.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, I both hate that I'm a procrastinator

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Speaker 1: and I really love staying up late and sort of

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Speaker 1: that thrill of rushing to a deadline and Metal Floss

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Speaker 1: used to feel like that to me. We'd rushed to

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Speaker 1: close an issue of the magazine and it was just

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Speaker 1: so fun.

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Speaker 2: But I'm curious.

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Speaker 1: About procrastination, like what makes us do it? Why do

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Speaker 1: we brag about it? And who are the greatest procrastinators

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Speaker 1: in history? And that's what we're gonna find out today.

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Speaker 1: Let's dive in.

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Speaker 2: Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm

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Speaker 2: Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good

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Speaker 2: friend Mangesh hot Ticketter and sitting behind that soundproof glass

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Speaker 2: with a bottle of Nodos, a stack of bullet journals.

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Speaker 2: What is that a i'madoro timer and a pair of blinders.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this guy is so serious about never losing

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Speaker 2: his focus. That's our friend and producer Tristan McNeil.

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Speaker 1: I know Tristan loves to hit deadlines.

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Speaker 2: He is ruthless about not procrastinating. But you know, speaking

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Speaker 2: of procrastination, we've got Andrew Santella on the program.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: Andrew's the author of a wonderful new book. It's called Soon,

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Speaker 2: An Overdue History of Procrastination from Leonardo and Darwin to

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Speaker 2: you and me. Welcome to part time genius Andrew.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: All right, so let's get right to it. And you've

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Speaker 2: said you wrote this book on procrastination not to end

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Speaker 2: your habit, but actually to excuse it, which is pretty wonderful.

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Speaker 2: So can you tell us a little bit about how

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Speaker 2: you decided to write this book and where the idea

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Speaker 2: came about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was motivated almost entirely by self interest. I

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Speaker 3: knew I had this like long procrastination habit, and I

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Speaker 3: thought if I dove deep enough into the history of

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Speaker 3: the thing, I might find some little curve of information

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Speaker 3: that would justify my habit, that would excuse it and

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Speaker 3: make me feel a little less bad about it.

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Speaker 1: So I think you're read that twenty percent of us

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Speaker 1: are chronic procrastinators, and I think it's like a third

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Speaker 1: of college students identify as procrastinators. And I was curious,

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Speaker 1: why do you think it is that people just love

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Speaker 1: to brag about being procrastinators?

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Speaker 3: That is one of the most fascinating phenomenon connected to procrastination.

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Speaker 3: If you ask me, when I would tell people I

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Speaker 3: was working on a book about procrastination, almost always the

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Speaker 3: response would be, oh, that's the book for me. I'm

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Speaker 3: the world's worst procrastinator, or I'm a terrible procrastinator. I've

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Speaker 3: got to read that book. And I was noticing, like

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Speaker 3: all the language was very judgmental, terrible and the worst,

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Speaker 3: all those sorts of characterizations. So people were clearly ashamed

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Speaker 3: about their habit, but they're also bragging to me. So

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Speaker 3: there was this weird sort of perverse pride in their

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Speaker 3: in their in their terrible habits. And I recognize that

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Speaker 3: in myself. I think even people who aren't such bad

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Speaker 3: procrastinators want to call themselves really bad procrastinators. And and

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Speaker 3: I think we've been really conditioned to to feel bad

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Speaker 3: every time we aren't at our most efficient. It's a

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Speaker 3: it's a strange thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely a strange thing. And so so we

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Speaker 2: should definitely get to the cure here, though, So can

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Speaker 2: you talk to us about Saint Expedite.

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Speaker 3: So the quick Lives of the Saints version is that

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Speaker 3: he was supposed to have been a Roman centurion in

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Speaker 3: the fourth century who was not a man of faith,

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Speaker 3: but one day decided to accept the Christian faith. But

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Speaker 3: he was visited, and this is the really good part here.

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Speaker 3: He was visited by a talking crow. And I know

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Speaker 3: we've all been there, the talking crows that they him,

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Speaker 3: you know, Expedite, just why don't want to hold on

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Speaker 3: a second? Uh? No, rush, Why don't you think about

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Speaker 3: it before you dive into this and make sure you're

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Speaker 3: doing the right thing. You can always do it tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: And Expedite, tempted as he was by the by the

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Speaker 3: opportunity to put off his conversion, decided that no, this

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Speaker 3: was the devil talking through the crow, and he actually

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Speaker 3: killed the crow. He stopped the crow to death. According

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Speaker 3: to legend, when you see a statue of Saint Expedite,

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Speaker 3: now he's almost always shown in his Roman centurion outfit

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Speaker 3: stepping on a crow, and you know at his feet

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Speaker 3: there's a dead there's a dead crow breathing his last

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Speaker 3: and I know it's gruesome. Expertite a banner that says Jodier,

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Speaker 3: which is the Latin word for today. So he is

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Speaker 3: this emblem of promptness and certitude. The real interesting thing

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Speaker 3: about that story, though, for me, is that it is

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Speaker 3: just a story. It's almost universally agreed that, you know,

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Speaker 3: he's a legend. His story might be based on many

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Speaker 3: characters or something like that, but there was no historical

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Speaker 3: Saint Expedite. And that's really to me because it's like,

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Speaker 3: only only a only a fictional character could be that

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Speaker 3: prompt and that for the rest of us, the rest

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Speaker 3: of us, actual human beings, you know, we have to

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Speaker 3: wrestle with our procrastination.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Sant Expedite sounds fictional, but that talking crove,

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Speaker 1: it really sold me on the.

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Speaker 3: You think, like with a detail like that, it's got

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Speaker 3: to be.

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Speaker 1: True, definitely. But one of the things I'm s curious

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Speaker 1: about is how he's worshiped on Reunion Island. Would you

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, in various places around the world, there's you know,

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Speaker 3: a pretty flourishing sort of devotional cult that you know

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Speaker 3: still you know, sees Expedite and other saints as sort

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Speaker 3: of mediators. When people need help, they will you know,

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Speaker 3: ask to intercede on their behalf. In Brazil, the feast

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Speaker 3: day of Saint Expedite, which is coming up, I think

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Speaker 3: it's a pull nineteenth I'm remember any right. The feast

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Speaker 3: day of Saint Expedite is really a big deal. I mean,

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Speaker 3: a lot of the the churches are filled with people,

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Speaker 3: and this Reunion Island is another place where where that

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Speaker 3: devotion exists. People that build roadside shrines to Expedite leave

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Speaker 3: the little innecessary prayers for him, asking for his help

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Speaker 3: with certain problems. And if they get his help and

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Speaker 3: they get help with the problem, they leave him some uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, some treat and if they don't, they're supposed

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Speaker 3: to lop off the head of the statue, And which

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Speaker 3: explains why there's a lot of headless Expedite statues.

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Speaker 1: I love that so much.

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Speaker 3: In the United States, there's pretty much the only place

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Speaker 3: where that sort of devotion is still practices in the

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Speaker 3: area around New Orleans. There's a church, Our Lady of

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Speaker 3: Guadalupe Church, just outside the French Quarter on Rampart Street,

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Speaker 3: where there's a statue of Seeing Expedite, And I went

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Speaker 3: to visit, and I saw from my own eye is

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Speaker 3: little bits of paper left at the foot of his

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Speaker 3: statue intercessory prayers that people had scribbled out asking for

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Speaker 3: his help with this or with that. And the local

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Speaker 3: tradition is that You're supposed to leave a piece of

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Speaker 3: pound cake for expedite As as a sort of token

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Speaker 3: of your good, good, good faith, and I didn't. When

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Speaker 3: the day I visited, I didn't see any pound cake,

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Speaker 3: and the church was kind of dark and deserted, and

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Speaker 3: it was a little spooky in there, and I was thinking, Jesus,

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Speaker 3: that did he actually consume the pound cake? There was

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Speaker 3: no pound cake because Father Tony, who's the parish priest,

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Speaker 3: regularly cleans up and you know, collects the pound cake

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Speaker 3: and puts it to good use. So that was there

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Speaker 3: was there was a non supernatural explanation for that.

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Speaker 2: I like, puts it to good use. I mean, pound

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Speaker 2: cake is pretty delicious, so I have a feeling I

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Speaker 2: know what Father Tony is doing.

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Speaker 1: And had one more question about that though you you

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Speaker 1: made more than one trip to Saint Expedite, right, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't just the first trip.

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Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm a little ashamed of that, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's true. I went down with a friend who knew

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Speaker 3: that if he didn't accompany me, I would never get

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Speaker 3: down to New Orleans. I mean, I told him I

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Speaker 3: should really get down to New Orleans for this book

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Speaker 3: I'm writing and there's there's something down there I should

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Speaker 3: see it, like a really great chapter. And you know,

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Speaker 3: he knows me well enough. He's an old friend. He

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Speaker 3: knows me well enough that he knew I would down

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Speaker 3: there left to my own devices. So he insisted that

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Speaker 3: we go together. And he got on the plane with me,

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Speaker 3: and we went down to New Orleans and spent I

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Speaker 3: think two days down there. And I did not a

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Speaker 3: single bit of research on saying it. But I during

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Speaker 3: the two days I was in New Orleans, you know,

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Speaker 3: I just there was a lot of other things to

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Speaker 3: do in New Orleans. It's a very it's a very

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Speaker 3: fun city. So I had to go back a second time.

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Speaker 3: I was really a shamed of myself that I had

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Speaker 3: to go back a second time, this time by myself.

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Speaker 3: And I actually did talk to father Tony and some

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Speaker 3: other people about extra today.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, let's move from talking about somebody who

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Speaker 2: was legendary to some very real people in history, some

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Speaker 2: famous procrastinators. But before we get to that, let's take

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Speaker 2: a quick break. Welcome back to Part Time Genius were

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Speaker 2: joined by andrewsen Tella, the author of the book Soon,

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Speaker 2: An Overdue History of Procrastination from Leonardo and Darwin to

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Speaker 2: you and me, why don't we move from someone who

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Speaker 2: may have been legend to some true famous procrastinators. So

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Speaker 2: can we talk a little bit about Charles Darwin?

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Speaker 1: First?

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Speaker 3: Darwin is probably the favorite of all the sort of

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Speaker 3: historical figures that I encountered in working on the book.

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Speaker 3: I really came to be fond of him, you know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I always knew what an important figure he

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Speaker 3: was and what a genius he was, But he also

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Speaker 3: is a just seems to have been a really devoted

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Speaker 3: family guy and a sort of an odd bird in

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Speaker 3: a really charming way. The fact is, it took him

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Speaker 3: more than two decades from the time when he sort

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Speaker 3: of developed the germ of the idea that is at

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Speaker 3: the heart of natural selection and wrote up sort of

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Speaker 3: that foundational idea in his private notebooks. It took him

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Speaker 3: more than two decades from that point to the point

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Speaker 3: where he actually published the landmark book on the Origin

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Speaker 3: of species. And you know, I understand that science takes time.

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Speaker 3: The fact is, during those two and a half decades,

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Speaker 3: he did a lot of things that in retrospect seemed

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Speaker 3: like maybe not great uses of his time. And I

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Speaker 3: think he did those things well, like, for example, he

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Speaker 3: edited gardening magazine. He did voluminous research on earth worms.

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Speaker 3: He did he became obsessed with barnacles. He had barnacles

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Speaker 3: all over his house and you know, pickled in jars,

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Speaker 3: and he was dissecting them and examining them and comparing

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Speaker 3: different categories and parnicles. He was just, by his own admission,

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Speaker 3: obsessed with things, to the point where his kids grew

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Speaker 3: up thinking like everyone lived like this with barnacles all

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Speaker 3: of the house. When one of Darwin's boys went to

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Speaker 3: visit a friend at a friend's house, he looked around

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Speaker 3: and said, well, where does your father do his barnacles?

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Speaker 3: He thought everyone had you had a study full of parnicles. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, you wonder why was he not just plugging

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Speaker 3: away on this book that he must have known would

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Speaker 3: shake the world to its core, and instead was spending

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Speaker 3: his time with worms, you know, And I think he

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Speaker 3: was ambivalent about the work he was doing in some ways.

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Speaker 3: You know, he was the product of a very devout

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Speaker 3: father who wanted him to go into the ministry, and

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Speaker 3: you know, I think that background made him feel especially

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Speaker 3: u leery of undertaking this work that he knew would

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Speaker 3: displace God in the worldview of many, and so I

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Speaker 3: think there were a lot of reasons why he was

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Speaker 3: ambivalent about his work, and so I think that resulted

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Speaker 3: in these detours that seem odd to us. And even

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Speaker 3: if even for Darwin he admitted I think I might

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Speaker 3: have spent might I might have spent a little bit

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Speaker 3: too long on those parnaicles that I read. But I

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Speaker 3: think one of the things that's really interesting, though, is

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Speaker 3: that he learned things from those detours that ended up

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Speaker 3: informing his work on natural selection. Natural selection is all

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Speaker 3: about small incremental changes that lead to large consequences, and

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Speaker 3: earth worms really demonstrate that, and Darwin recognized that what

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Speaker 3: he learned from the Barnacles informed his work at natural selection.

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Speaker 3: And so I think his story is illustrative of how

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Speaker 3: even the detours sometimes can lead us to some important understanding.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's one of the interesting things about procrastination, too,

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Speaker 3: is that there's a lot of there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: ways to get to understanding well.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the other things that's interesting to

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Speaker 1: me is that, and you point this out, is that

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Speaker 1: there are so many ways to procrastinate, right, like from

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Speaker 1: like obsessing over little things that aren't important to like

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Speaker 1: doing important things, but you know, things that aren't important

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Speaker 1: right now, like and in analyzing profestinating, like, did you

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Speaker 1: find that you're more prone to anyone type or that

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Speaker 1: people tend to gravitate to one type?

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Speaker 3: You know, I recognize and everyone, you know, people who

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Speaker 3: study this phenomenon sort of for a living, you know,

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Speaker 3: recognize that you could be really diligent in certain things

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Speaker 3: in your life, about the housework or paying bills, and

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Speaker 3: but a complete procrastinating slacker about other parts of you,

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Speaker 3: like maybe your work deadlines or something like that, or

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Speaker 3: or it could be in reverse. So yes, there's I

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Speaker 3: think most of us have areas where we're uh diligent

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Speaker 3: in one thing and not so in another. And I

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Speaker 3: mean that just goes to illustrate how, you know, we're

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Speaker 3: all divided selves, and we all have these, uh you know,

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Speaker 3: parts of ourselves that that are sort of at war

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Speaker 3: with each other, and I think there was all what

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Speaker 3: happens when we're trying to resolve those wars is procrastination.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: I think it's interesting that you note that Aristotle and

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Speaker 2: Socrates had different philosophies on procrastination, and this idea of

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Speaker 2: there's a word you have in the book I wasn't

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Speaker 2: familiar with it. Is it a crazia? How do you

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Speaker 2: pronounce the word?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right.

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Speaker 2: Maybe, yeah, yeah, So you talk about this idea of aquatia,

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Speaker 2: So can can you talk a little bit about this?

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Speaker 3: So, yes, you're asking me to unpack ancient Greek philosophy.

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Speaker 2: Is that is that if you don't mind, like let's say,

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Speaker 2: let's say we give you, you know, five minutes to

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Speaker 2: unpack the whole thing. I feel like that's reasonable.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So the question about a crasia is whether a

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Speaker 3: rational person can knowingly do something that's bad for yet

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Speaker 3: for her. I mean, I don't think the ancient Greeks

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Speaker 3: would have said or her, but I'll add that. So

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Speaker 3: in other words, if your rational, why would you do

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Speaker 3: something that you know is going to come back to

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Speaker 3: bite you and later, like for example, procrastinating. I mean

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Speaker 3: that's the definition of procrastination is to put off something

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Speaker 3: that needs to be done, knowing that the delay will

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Speaker 3: harm you at something will cost you at some point

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Speaker 3: in the future. So if you're a rational person, why

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Speaker 3: would you, knowing lee do something that will cost you

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Speaker 3: in the future. And if you're not rational, well then

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Speaker 3: you're not you're not capable of knowing that. So so

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Speaker 3: you know, I guess that's the debate.

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Speaker 2: All right, we need to take one more quick break,

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Speaker 2: but when we come back, I want to talk about

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Speaker 2: to do lists. Welcome back to part time genius. I

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Speaker 2: want to ask a couple of questions about to do lists.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but I'm definitely a to

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Speaker 2: do list maker. I love keeping lists around, and it's

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Speaker 2: something that you know, we seem to live in a

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Speaker 2: society that's upset with these to do lists. And it

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Speaker 2: was funny you actually included Johnny Cash in the mix here.

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Speaker 2: So can you talk a little bit about to do

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Speaker 2: list and your philosophy around them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. My philosophy of to do lists is that they're

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Speaker 3: a great way to avoid actually doing the things on

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Speaker 3: the to do list.

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Speaker 2: That sounds about right.

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Speaker 3: I spent so much time actually making the list that

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Speaker 3: I find that, you know, and and and I get

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Speaker 3: such satisfaction from making the list that I don't really

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Speaker 3: feel like I need to do the things on the list.

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Speaker 3: The other thing that happens is like I lose my

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Speaker 3: list quite a lot, you know, I make so many

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Speaker 3: lists over the course of the day, you know, I

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Speaker 3: leave them all over the place, and I'll lose them,

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Speaker 3: and it's it's funny. They turn up maybe like a

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Speaker 3: month later, you know, and they're still perfectly good because

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Speaker 3: I haven't done anything.

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Speaker 5: So it's there's still there's still a valid and valuable

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Speaker 5: I thinks are a dubious value to like actually getting

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Speaker 5: things done. Although actually getting things done was is not

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Speaker 5: really the topic of interest for me in the book.

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Speaker 3: It's not a how to book or a or a

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Speaker 3: self help book, but trying to understand why we make

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Speaker 3: lists was of interest to me, and I came across

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Speaker 3: really interesting stuff from the novelist and CEO Titian Umberdo Echo,

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Speaker 3: who wrote at length about lists, and he theorized that

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Speaker 3: we make lists because we're afraid to die. Lists are

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Speaker 3: sort of a gesture at infinitude, that you can never

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Speaker 3: complete a list. There's always more to be added to.

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Speaker 4: A list, and and as as a as as an

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Speaker 4: emblem of infinitude, they remind us of our by nightness

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Speaker 4: and our and our mortality, and so we make lists,

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Speaker 4: Echo said, because we're afraid to die.

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Speaker 3: I totally buy into that. Idea, I think, I think

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Speaker 3: so I basically I feel like anything I do I

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Speaker 3: do because I'm afraid to die.

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Speaker 1: Well, I do like too that. I think you mentioned

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people will put things and I

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Speaker 1: do this, like I'll put things on a list just

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Speaker 1: to knock it off, And I think I think there

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Speaker 1: is some link between that and my being a procrastinator,

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Speaker 1: where I think I take a certain amount of pride

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Speaker 1: in being able to hit the deadline even though I

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Speaker 1: wait such a long time. Like, I think that feeling

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Speaker 1: of accomplishment from both things, like somehow ties together. But

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Speaker 1: you talk about Frank Lloyd right and how he came

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Speaker 1: up with the idea of falling water in just two hours,

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Speaker 1: and I really love that story, I think as a procrastinator,

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Speaker 1: so I was wondering if you could share that with us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think a great way to get that feeling

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Speaker 3: of satisfaction of knocking something off the list is to

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Speaker 3: write the most the most ridiculous things and the most

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Speaker 3: the simplest things down as things to do that day, Like,

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Speaker 3: for example, getting up and going to the bathroom would

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Speaker 3: be something to put at the top of your list

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Speaker 3: and it'd be done, you know, just cross it off

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Speaker 3: and you've gotten one of the things off your list.

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Speaker 3: That's all right, I know I said, it wasn't a

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Speaker 3: subf help, but that's my one protein.

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Speaker 2: Go to the bathroom and righte it down.

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Speaker 3: Asked about Frank Floyd Wright, So Franklyad Wright was asked

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Speaker 3: to design a house outside Pittsburgh by one of his clients,

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Speaker 3: and the house became what we know was Falling Water,

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Speaker 3: one of the great accomplishments of residential architecture, of course,

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Speaker 3: And and this this commission came at a time when

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Speaker 3: Wright's reputation was sort of in tatters. He was on

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Speaker 3: the outside. This new wave of European Modernists were the

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Speaker 3: end thing, and he was definitely a sort of a

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Speaker 3: has been, and this commission had the potential to resurrect

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Speaker 3: his career. And of course, right did the only thing

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Speaker 3: that a procrastinator could do. Given the chance to make

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Speaker 3: such a splash, He put it off. He just, having

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Speaker 3: gotten the commission, put nothing down on paper for the

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Speaker 3: longest time. And it was only when his client called

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Speaker 3: and said, Hey, I'm gonna come by the studio tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: I'd love to see those drawings you've been working on.

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Speaker 3: That right, actually started working on those drawings he was

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Speaker 3: supposed to be working on. And so this legend sprung

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Speaker 3: up partly, you know, disseminated by his students and his

396
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Speaker 3: sort of his disciples, that he scribbled out his designs

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Speaker 3: for this master work, you know, at the very last minute,

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Speaker 3: like as his client was waiting in the waiting room,

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Speaker 3: he was finishing these these designs for falling Water. And

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Speaker 3: I mean, it really could not have happened that way,

401
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Speaker 3: his scholars agree. I mean, he must have had the

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Speaker 3: ideas in his head or in some sort of you know,

403
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Speaker 3: partially finished state, and then translated them to paper, you know,

404
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Speaker 3: when he needed to. But it's interesting to me that

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Speaker 3: his students wanted to promote this legend of him procrastinating

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Speaker 3: and not being diligent, because you wouldn't think that would

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Speaker 3: be something to be proud of. You wouldn't think that

408
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Speaker 3: would add to your professional reputation. But in his student's mind,

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Speaker 3: it was sort of a proof of what a genius

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Speaker 3: he was, that he could I'm almost out demand just

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Speaker 3: with about the you know, ideas that would shake architecture

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Speaker 3: to its core. And you know, I think so that's

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Speaker 3: his story is a lesson in how we sometimes attribute

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Speaker 3: genius to or connect procrastination to genius in a sort

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Speaker 3: of not entirely valid way.

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Speaker 1: So, Andrew, I really love this book. But one of

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Speaker 1: the things I noticed, and this isn't a chrism you,

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Speaker 1: but you know, it does seem like there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of historical examples of women procrastinating. And I was curious,

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Speaker 1: why do you think that is?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I would recognize that as I was writing,

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Speaker 3: And I mean, part of the problem is that, you know,

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Speaker 3: women just aren't as well represented in our understanding of

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Speaker 3: history as they might be. Our idea of history is,

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Speaker 3: at least in the Western world, is sort of monotone.

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Speaker 3: And the short answer is, I don't know. I did

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Speaker 3: write about Penelope and how I think Penelope was an

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Speaker 3: example of a really strategic procrastinator, someone who used procrastination

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Speaker 3: to achieve what she wanted to achieve. That is, she

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Speaker 3: wanted to remain faithful to her husband. You know, the

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Speaker 3: story of hyde Penelope is that she told the suitors

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Speaker 3: who wanted to marry her that she would consider them

433
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 3: only when she finished making this shroud for her father

434
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 3: in law. You know, her husband had been offered. I

435
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 3: don't know how long, twenty years, and people assumed that

436
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 3: he was dead, but she believed that he would eventually

437
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 3: return to her, and so she didn't want to you

438
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 3: didn't want to deal with these suitors who wanted to

439
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 3: take her husband's place. And so every day she would

440
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 3: work on this shroud that she was supposed to be weaving,

441
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 3: and every night she would unravel the work done the

442
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 3: previous day, which I think is a lot of what

443
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 3: us procrastinators do, sort of metaphorically with our homework. And

444
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 3: so her unraveling, her postponing, and her you know that

445
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 3: delay that she employed allowed her to buy time for

446
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 3: her husband to return.

447
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: All right, sir Andrew, one more question before we let

448
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: you go. You talk a little bit of the book

449
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 2: about procrastination societies, which I have to be honest, it

450
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: sounds kind of fun. So can you talk a little

451
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: bit about this.

452
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, I think procrastination is so widespread and

453
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 3: people feel so bad about it that it's only natural

454
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 3: that they've banned together as procrastinators. It's also forming a

455
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 3: procrastination society seems to be a great occasion for making

456
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 3: lame jokes about procrastination, so that you know, if you

457
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,479
Speaker 3: if you started a procrastination society, you know, the founding

458
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 3: date might be some point in the future, or the

459
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 3: first meeting will be you know, postponed that you know,

460
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 3: you just run across those sorts of lame jokes all

461
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 3: the time. I ran across. Well, we talked about Lichtenberg earlier,

462
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 3: the German Enlightenment scientists. Discovering his story led me to

463
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 3: a group of people in a small town outside Atlanta, Georgia,

464
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 3: who founded a society called the Lichtenbergian Society that honors

465
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 3: Lichtenberg and his role in promoting procrastination. They're all sort

466
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 3: of creative, smart people that the teachers and play rights

467
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 3: and architects, and I think there was a professional clown

468
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 3: in there too, And they're all inveterate procrastinators who are

469
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,719
Speaker 3: both like so many of us, a shame of their

470
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 3: habit and proud of their hat of it. And so

471
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 3: they formed this group and I went down and uh

472
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 3: and sat in on one of their meetings, which happened

473
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 3: in the really charming backyard of one of the members house,

474
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 3: who next to the labyrinth that he built in his backyard.

475
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 3: He built the labyrinth one summer when he was supposed

476
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: to have been composing an opera, uh and he got

477
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 3: like nothing done on the opera. He built this really

478
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 3: cool labyrinth and it's a great place to have a

479
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 3: have a cocktail and on a nice spring night like

480
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 3: we did that night. So that looked in Berghian in society.

481
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 3: If you're looking for a group to join, boy, that's it.

482
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 3: I recommend that highly.

483
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: We've been talking with Andrew Santella. The book is soon

484
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 2: an overdue history of procrastination from Leonardo and Darwin to

485
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 2: you and me. Thanks so much for being here, Andrew,

486
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 2: my pleasure.

487
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 3: I had a lot of fun.

488
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 2: Thanks again for listening. Part Time Genius is a production

489
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 2: of how stuff works and wouldn't be possible without several

490
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 2: brilliant people who do the important things we couldn't even

491
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 2: begin to understand.

492
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: Christan McNeil does the editing thing.

493
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: Noel Brown made the theme song and does the mixy

494
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 2: mixy sound thing.

495
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: Jerry Roland does the exact producer thing.

496
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: Gabeluesier is our lead researcher, with support from the Research

497
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 2: Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and Lucas.

498
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: Adams and Eves. Jeff Cook gets the show to your ears.

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00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: Good job, Eves.

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Speaker 2: If you like what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe,

501
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: And if you really really like what you've heard.

502
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 3: Maybe you could leave a good review for us.

503
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: Do we forget Jason?

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Speaker 3: Jason who