1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarckley and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: Monday bringing a lot of news, much of which broke 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: over the weekend, including the President's one point eighty on 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: the Jeffrey Epstein files. As we try to get to 9 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 2: the bottom of all of this, and we'll be talking 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: in a moment with Wendy Benjamins, and we'll bring you 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: back to the truth. Social post this hit on Sunday, 12 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: as he said on Friday night, aboard air Force one 13 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 2: to the fake news media. As he writes here, House 14 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 2: Republicans should vote to release the Epstein files, because he says, 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,639 Speaker 2: we have nothing to hide and it's time to move 16 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: on from this Democrat hoax, he writes, perpetrated by radical 17 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 2: left lunatics in order to flecked from the great success 18 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 2: of the Republican Party, knowing as well that only days earlier, 19 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 2: Congresswoman Lauren Bobert was in the situation room at the 20 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: White House for a high stakes meeting with the President 21 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: in which the administration tried to peel her off of 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: the discharge petition. He was said to be playing phone 23 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: tag with Nancy Mace to accomplish the same thing. He 24 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: had a falling out with a dear friend and loyal 25 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: politician named Marjorie Taylor Green. You've likely heard of all 26 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: to keep this from happening, and so it's considered curious 27 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: the President is now urging Republicans to vote for it. Rocanna, 28 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 2: the Democrat on this bill, told us last week forty 29 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: to fifty Republicans could vote for it. Now we're hearing 30 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,639 Speaker 2: from Tom Massey, you could be closer to one hundred. 31 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 2: Rick Davis, our Bloomberg Politics contributor, suggesting it could be 32 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: a unanimous vote in the House, which would make it 33 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: very difficult for the Senate to ignore. So what's the 34 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: calculus here? And is this new investigation into Democrats purported 35 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 2: to be in the Epstein files the smokescreen for them 36 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 2: ever being released. It's where we start our conversation with 37 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: the aforementioned Wendy Benjamins in Bloomberg News senior editor, who 38 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: you want on that wall? She was on duty all 39 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: weekend while this stuff broke. And it's great to see you. 40 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: Thank you for going through the motions here. Am I 41 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 2: getting warmer? Or has Donald Trump found religion on the 42 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 2: Epstein files? 43 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 3: You know what you sort of said in the opening. 44 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 4: It's really hard to tell with Donald Trump because he's 45 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 4: either a bull careening into. 46 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 3: A china shop or he's playing for dimensional chess like 47 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 3: I don't know. 48 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 4: It could be that he's just he's had it up 49 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 4: to here, he's fed up, just go ahead and release them. 50 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 4: Perhaps he's either and now I have subpair some paragraphs here. 51 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 4: Either he is confident that there's nothing incriminating that he 52 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 4: did in there, or the House can say, go ahead 53 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 4: and release the files. 54 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 3: It may not pass the Senate, he may not sign it. 55 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 4: Or the Justice Department can just say, wow, this is 56 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 4: an ongoing investigation. I'm sorry, I can't release it, and 57 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 4: then he would get what he wants. But that's more 58 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 4: of the four dimensional chess sure thing here. But yes, 59 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 4: the shift is absolutely remarkable. Also, remember he took a 60 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 4: sill aking in the elections, to quote President Obama a 61 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 4: couple of weeks ago, where Democrats swept all the elections 62 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 4: then of course they caved on the shutdown. But he's 63 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 4: at a point where he's feeling a little bit with 64 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 4: his back to the wall. And that's you know when 65 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 4: I think you have to watch for strange things to happen, 66 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 4: like go ahead and release the files. 67 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Also his evolution on Nick Fuentes and the writing. 68 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: Maybe it's not an evolution, but his decision to weigh 69 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: in on this. 70 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 5: The funny thing. 71 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 4: About that was where his defense was, well he came 72 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 4: with Kanye West, was like, okay. 73 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: When you're explaining, as they say. But it's also happening 74 00:03:54,960 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: against the backdrop of some very high stakes real policy 75 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: ability being an issue here at home, right the Crown 76 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: Prince of Saudi Arabia about to arrive for the full 77 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: flourish of a state visit tomorrow, and the question of 78 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: whether we're about to go to war in Venezuela. How 79 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: do you rationalize all of these extremes. 80 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 4: This is the way Donald Trump likes to operate. But 81 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 4: it is just as you point out, this is a 82 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 4: tremendous load on him. I mean, there is the Saudi 83 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 4: visit alone should be weeks and weeks of prep for 84 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 4: the president. The carrier group being staged off the coast 85 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 4: of South America with who knows what going on, And 86 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 4: remember the southcom commander quit over this a few weeks ago, 87 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 4: so we're not really sure who's running things and how 88 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 4: this is going. And then the Epstein files and then 89 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 4: the shutdown, and then yes, the mid terms politically speaking, 90 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 4: are right around the corner, even though they're a year away, 91 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 4: but that is politically zero time. And if he doesn't 92 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 4: seize this sucessfully sees this affordability message, which the Democrats 93 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 4: got right finally on last Tuesday, then then he's looking 94 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 4: at another shill aking next year. 95 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 3: And so yeah, he's this is this is a really tough. 96 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 2: Time for him, the matter of recrafting the nation's healthcare system. 97 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: And you might need a little extra time on your 98 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 2: hands here. What's going to happen in Venezuela. Do we 99 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 2: have any idea? The president said at one point he 100 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 2: had decided effectively what to do. And then a headline 101 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: over the weekend that you're well aware of that he's 102 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: open to sitting down with Maduro for talks. Is this 103 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 2: all one big military deterrent that's supposed to bring Maduro 104 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 2: to the table. 105 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 4: Yes, I mean, I think that's the end goal is 106 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 4: either to bring Maduro to the table or like Noriea, 107 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 4: out of the country. Got it way back in the 108 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 4: oldest when they got rid of this. 109 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 2: So regime change is still on your list of possibilities. 110 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, the US has a long history 111 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 4: of regime change in South America. And you know, the 112 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 4: trouble is the Venezuelan people, I think are not entirely opposed. 113 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 3: To get I mean, they're not opposed to getting. 114 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 4: Rid of Maduro, but it's always the then what And 115 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 4: I think if Trump did seem to indicate last night 116 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 4: that he was open to negotiations with Maduro, maybe it's 117 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 4: you step down and get out of town. Maybe it's 118 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 4: something more complicated. Again, there's a lot of transparency here. 119 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 2: You surely remember the fist bump heard around the world 120 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 2: when Joe Biden went to Saudi Arabia. Jamal Kashogi's name 121 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: was still fresh in our minds. There won't be any 122 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 2: such criticism or skepticism when NBS rolls up the driveway 123 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 2: tomorrow in the age of Trump. Will there no no. 124 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 4: This is a full on you know, I think it's 125 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 4: not quite a state visit, but it's just shy of 126 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 4: a full state visit. 127 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:50,679 Speaker 3: He's getting dinner at the White House. 128 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 4: There is a Chips deal on the table, which is 129 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 4: making some members of Congress and others nervous because some 130 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 4: of that could end up with the Chinese. He wants, 131 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 4: the Prince wants F thirty five jets. He wants to 132 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 4: buy those, which would be a change in US policy 133 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 4: because the US long standing policy has been that Israel 134 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 4: has functional military superiority or words to that effect, so 135 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 4: that Israel always has the strongest military in the region. 136 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 4: They have F thirty fives. And not only does the 137 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 4: US not want China to get the F thirty five technology, 138 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 4: it also then would put Saudi Arabia at an not equal, 139 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 4: but I would raise up their military capabilities. Israel MBS 140 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 4: is not going to sign the Abraham Accords at this point, 141 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 4: and so that's maybe the one point of tension between them. 142 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 4: But otherwise it's all a big deal. And quite remember 143 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 4: the Trump family has a real estate deal going in 144 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia. 145 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: Deep ties, deep ties on a lot of levels. Here, 146 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: Wendy is great to see you. Thank you. I hope 147 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: you actually get to rest after your very newsy weekend 148 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: when you see these headlines cross the terminal and Bloomberg 149 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: dot Com over the weekend where they're coming from. Wendy Benjaminson, 150 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 2: thank you, as we had the voice of experience in 151 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 2: former Ambassador James Jeffrey, Distinguished Fellow at the Washington Institute 152 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: for Near East Policy, former Ambassador to Iraq and Turkey, 153 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 2: former Deputy National Security Advisor, and former Special Assistant Presidential Envoy. 154 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 2: I should say to defeat isis that was in the 155 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 2: first Trump administration. He's a man who knows this region 156 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: extremely well. An Ambassador's good to have you back. You 157 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: were just listening to our conversation with Wendy Benjaminson. MBS 158 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: will be at the White House by this time tomorrow. 159 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: We're going to be listening in on a bilateral lunch 160 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: that will presumably include some press. How are you viewing 161 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: the stakes surrounding this visit and what is in it 162 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: for the United States? 163 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 6: Thanks for having me on the stakes A high and 164 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 6: a great deal is in it for the United States. 165 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 6: We were talking about four dimensional chess on the Epstein case. 166 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 6: Domestically a moment ago. It's the same in the Middle East. 167 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 6: While Saudi Rabi is a hugely important country in the region, 168 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 6: and for US relations this is even bigger than Saudi Arabia. 169 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 6: It's locking in a regional security, trade, and diplomatic coalition 170 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 6: that will build on the defeat first of Dash, the 171 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 6: Islamic state seven years ago and now the defeat of 172 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 6: Irian it's proxy empire over the past two years, to 173 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 6: allow the region finally to enjoy peace, prosperity, political independence, 174 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 6: and allow the United States slowly to back out of 175 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 6: the region. So lots at stake. Saudis, like the Israelis, 176 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 6: like the Turks, like a couple of other countries, are 177 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 6: central to it. Trump is pushing forward on all of 178 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 6: these fronts. 179 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 2: And what does Saudi Arabia get out of this visit? 180 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 5: Ambassador, First of all, acknowledgment. 181 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 6: This is almost the state visit, although technically the Crown 182 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 6: Prince is the Crown Prince, not the king. 183 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 5: The king is still there. 184 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 6: But he's also getting to build on the Biden fistbump forgiveness. 185 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 5: For the Koshogi case. 186 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 6: But more importantly, he needs economic coordination. 187 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 5: He needs US investment. 188 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 6: He has promised six hundred billion in Saudi investment in 189 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 6: the US, and that's a good deal for Saudi Arabia 190 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 6: given the way our economy is cooking. But also he 191 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 6: wants progress on a pathway that's the word we're using 192 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 6: now to a Palestinian state, that is requirement before the 193 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 6: Abraham accoits. He wants a nuclear a couid. He wants 194 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 6: a deal like we just gave to the state of 195 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 6: kata That is an executive order stipulating that any attack 196 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 6: on Saudi Arabia or attack on its territorial integrity would 197 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 6: be seen as an attack on the United States. That's 198 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 6: what the cut of he's just got. The Saudis will 199 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 6: want that too. They will probably get something like it. 200 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 2: They'll probably guess something like it. How about F thirty 201 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 2: five fighter jets. 202 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 6: I think that they'll have to be more progress on 203 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 6: the Abraham accolds and more assuaging of the Israelis. 204 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 5: As Wendy said, the israel. 205 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 6: Military advantage is a critical part of our relationship with 206 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 6: Israel and the whole region. But for example, the Israelis 207 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 6: use a lot of F sixteens. Other countries in the 208 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 6: region have F sixteens. There are ways to work this, 209 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 6: but it is sensitive and its delicate. 210 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: Well the President was in Riad in May, Ambassador, he said, 211 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: talking about MBS, Remember there was this big love fest. 212 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 2: The President brought a number of executives with him from 213 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: the United States, and he said, I like him a lot, 214 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 2: I like him too much. What do you think he 215 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: meant by that? 216 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 6: It's a rift on how you hear a lot of 217 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 6: people in the Middle East toward native Arab speakers used very. 218 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 5: Too. 219 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 6: We hear this all the time, and Trump along the 220 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 6: way has picked it up and was using it back. 221 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 5: But what he means is, this is my guy. 222 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 2: H You know, he had the new president of Syria 223 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 2: with him in the Oval office quite recently, Ambassador, and 224 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: that raised a lot of eyebrows. It's not something that 225 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 2: we would have even considered a couple of months ago, 226 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 2: as this was an individual involved in Assyrian, a branch 227 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 2: of al Qaeda. How does that inform this meeting tomorrow? 228 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 5: Very much? 229 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 6: Because Syria is another critical piece, and here Trump has 230 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 6: by embracing literally Al Shara formerly al Jolani, he's signaling 231 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 6: how important Syria and Syrian involvement in this growing region 232 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 6: wide coalition is. I worked indirectly with al Shara in 233 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 6: the first administration he was fighting the real bad guys, 234 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 6: the Islamic State as early as twenty sixteen. Importantly, he 235 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 6: was also fighting the Russians, Iran and Asad. So he 236 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 6: might have been a farm of terrorist, but he was 237 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 6: a pharma terrorist who is effectively on our side, and 238 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 6: we have honnered that with his visit to the United 239 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 6: States last week. 240 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 2: Does a global deal to the extent that you're describing, 241 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 2: involving potentially investment here, direct foreign investment, fighter jets, maybe 242 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 2: even more than that, Ambassador, make the United States safer? 243 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 5: Yes. 244 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 6: First of all, we've remained safe all in all since 245 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 6: the nineteen forties by the same recipe, which is keep 246 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 6: the global Eurasian island free of domination by a single 247 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 6: power or a coalition that is hostile to us, by 248 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 6: working by with and through other countries be it China 249 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 6: and France and Britain and World War Two, be it 250 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 6: the NATO Alliance, be it our friends in the Middle East. 251 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 6: This allows us, with only three percent of our gross 252 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 6: national product going to defense, to maintain a relatively stable 253 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 6: world that is secure and peaceful not only for the 254 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 6: American people but for people all around the world. And 255 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 6: that's a huge plus for global development, for economic trade 256 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 6: and everything else that's important to the American family. 257 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: You mentioned in the outset a Palestinian state and the 258 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: extent to which Saudi Arabia would like to engage the 259 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: US on this. Where's Donald Trump's head here? He's spoken 260 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 2: around this issue a bit, knowing, of course, what is 261 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 2: transpired in Gaza. That's something that NBS is not very 262 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: fond of. 263 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 6: Is he He's not fond of the terrible deprivations of 264 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 6: the Gazan people, But he's very happy that one of 265 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 6: Irian's major arms, Hamas, has been defeated, and he will 266 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 6: be happy if President Trump continues pushing for in the 267 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 6: language we're using in our latest diplomatic statements is a 268 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 6: pathway to a Palestinian state that's not a Palestinian state, 269 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 6: and that has made. 270 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 5: The Israelis nervous, or at least some Israelis. 271 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 6: But nonetheless it's where Trump is now and it will 272 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 6: help him in these meetings tomorrow with the Crown Prince. 273 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 2: How long is that pathway? Is that beyond this president's tenure? 274 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 6: Well, we started thirty years ago with the Oslo Quoits, 275 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 6: and we came very close in two thousand. In the 276 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 6: view of then President Clinton, the fault was the Palestinian 277 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 6: leader Yessa Arafa, who could not take a deal when 278 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 6: one was offered. The overall question is are the Palestinians 279 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 6: really in their hearts willing to accept a Jewish Israel 280 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 6: as a neighbor, and that question has not been finally answered. 281 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 6: We also need to know if all Israelis are willing 282 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 6: to let a West Bank eventually be on a passway 283 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 6: to a separate state, given the claims of settlers. So 284 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 6: there's several things in play here, but nonetheless President Trump 285 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 6: is pushing this as all presidents before him. 286 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 2: I'm really glad we could have this conversation ahead of 287 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 2: the visit. Ambassador, good to see you. James Jeffrey, distinguished 288 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: fellow Washington Institute for Near East Policy and a voice 289 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 2: of experience in the region. He's been in the room. 290 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 2: We'll assemble our political panel next only here on Balance 291 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 2: of Power on Bloomberg. Stay with us on Balance of Power. 292 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: We'll have much more coming up after this. 293 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 294 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, 295 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You 296 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 297 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 298 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: This is quite a day in politics, as the president, 299 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 2: who have been at least leaning away from the Epstein story, 300 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 2: not one to mention, Nick Fuentes is now embracing both. 301 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: Michelle jem risco at my side today when it comes 302 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 2: to Epstein. We've got to vote tomorrow a discharge petition 303 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: that's going to force this floor vote on the Epstein files. 304 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 2: Presidents just decided to rip off the band aid. He 305 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 2: is now urging Republicans to vote for it instead of 306 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 2: the opposite, and. 307 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 7: He's giving them the freedom to do what perhaps they 308 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 7: would have done anyway, I think is the point. Yeah, 309 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 7: he's seen the writing on the wall that they want 310 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 7: to move a certain direction, and maybe he was going 311 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 7: to lose the vote. 312 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 2: So why not own it? Why not own it writing 313 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 2: on truth social House Republicans should vote to release the 314 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 2: Epstein files because we have nothing to hide and it's 315 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 2: time to move on. He says. The House Oversight Committee 316 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 2: can have whatever they are legally entitled to. I don't 317 00:17:54,960 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 2: care exclamation point, having just days ago brought the likes 318 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 2: of Congresswoman Bobert to the situation room to try to 319 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 2: convince her to take her name off the discharge petition. Remember, 320 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 2: Rocanna told us last week could be thirty or forty 321 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 2: Republicans voting for this on the floor. Tom Massey said 322 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 2: on Sunday Morning TV, it could be one hundred. And 323 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 2: in that world, will the Senate have any choice? While 324 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 2: the President enter Nick Fuentes, this is the other big one, 325 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: Michelle that's been dogging the White House and splitting in 326 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 2: many cases Republicans. After Tucker Carlson interviewed the notorious what 327 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 2: am I supposed to call him? White nationalist? I mean, seriously, well, trovocateur. 328 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 7: I think to the extent that he embraces those labels himself, 329 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 7: you can call him Wooden fair enough. He does racing, 330 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 7: So yeah, I mean, it's another tricky subject that's kind 331 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 7: of splitting the manga world apart. And interesting that we 332 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 7: heard the President way in on this. 333 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 2: You've had the Heritage Foundation backing Tucker Carlson. A lot 334 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 2: of folks in the Republican Party, a lot of folks 335 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 2: in maga world don't believe Tucker Carlson should be platforming 336 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 2: an individual like Fwentz, who will remind everybody had dinner 337 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 2: with the president. At one point, Donald Trump was asked 338 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: about this over the weekend down in West Palm Beach. 339 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 2: Here's what he said. 340 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 8: We've had some great interviews with Tucker Carlson, but you. 341 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 2: Can't tell him who to interview him. Mean, if he 342 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 2: wants to interview Nick Fuentes, I don't. 343 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 8: Know much about him, but if he wants to do it, 344 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 8: get the word outlet you know, people have to decide ultimately. 345 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 2: People have to decide. All right. I don't know what 346 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 2: get the word out means. It's a really interesting response. 347 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 2: If he wants to interview Nick Fuentez, I don't know 348 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: much about him, but if he wants to do it, 349 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 2: get the word out let him. He said, people have 350 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 2: to decide. Ultimately, people have to decide. Let's assemble our 351 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 2: panel for their take on this move across the board 352 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 2: by Donald Trump to lean into the opposition. Rick Davis 353 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 2: and Jeanie Shanzeno are with us Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick 354 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 2: is our Republican strategist and partner at stone Core Capital 355 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: Genius our democratic analyst and democracy visiting fellow at Harvard 356 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 2: Kennedy School's Ash Center. Rick, is this a strategy to 357 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:13,439 Speaker 2: just own it? 358 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 9: I'm not sure what he's owning. 359 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 8: I mean, you know, he talked about, well, I barely 360 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 8: know this guy, Nick Fouentes except that he had dinner 361 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 8: with him at marlog or that blew up during the campaign. Yeah, 362 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 8: you know, and he says people have to decide that 363 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 8: last clip you just said, And I'm like, decide about 364 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 8: what whether Nick Fouentees is a racist, anti Semite, I mean, 365 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 8: or anti Semitism is bad. I mean, like, what is 366 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 8: it we're undecided about here? And the thing is, it's 367 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 8: not that Tucker Carlson interviewed the guy on its own. 368 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 9: Tucker Carlson should be able to interview anybody he wants to. 369 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 8: I mean, for heaven's sakes, he interviewed Vladimir Putin in Moscow. 370 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 8: But at the end of the day, it's the fact 371 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 8: that he didn't challenge Nick on any of his racist, 372 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 8: anti semit comments. And so that's the backlash. There are 373 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 8: maga people in an uproar that Tucker Carlson has been, 374 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 8: you know, helping this guy by not challenging him. 375 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 7: Well, Genie, I mean, can you address this sort of 376 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 7: free speech argument here? I mean, Trump is saying, let's 377 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 7: just air this out, Let's let him have his Do 378 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 7: you know he can interview whoever he wants to, and 379 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 7: to Rick's point, you know he has interviewed some pretty 380 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 7: controversial characters and given the platform to others. I mean, 381 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 7: do you think this has legs at all the Fuinta's 382 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 7: argument or is this just going to kind of go 383 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 7: away and then in lieu of it we'll talk Epstein 384 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 7: because they're a bigger fish to fry on le front. 385 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 10: Yeah, this has been what Tucker Carlston has been saying 386 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 10: to put himself and in a victim position essentially, is oh, 387 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 10: they are trying to cancel me and not let me 388 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 10: interview who I want to interview. And the reality is 389 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 10: nobody is saying he can't to interview Nick Twente's or 390 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 10: anybody else. There is a long history, as you know, Michelle, 391 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 10: of reporters interviewing the worst type of people. But it 392 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 10: is the way in which that went forward and how 393 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 10: he embraced how he as Ben Shapiro called glossed Nick fwents, 394 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 10: how he went on there and described Christian Zionists as 395 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 10: the worst people in the world. How he hugged Nick 396 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 10: Fuente's That's what people are objecting to. And I think 397 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 10: what we heard from Donald Trump in both of these 398 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 10: stories is something pretty sad for Donald Trump, which is 399 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 10: a surrender to the worst parts of this MAGA coalition. 400 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 10: In both cases, as much as Donald Trump wants to 401 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 10: yell at Marjorie Taylor Green and say I am MAGA, 402 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 10: I created it, I know what they want, he is 403 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 10: being led around by the chain from the most extreme 404 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 10: elements of this coalition, and he has zero control over it. 405 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 11: He can't get them not. 406 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 10: To release the Epstein files, and he can't even denounce 407 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 10: Nick Fuentes, who, as was noted, he ate with with 408 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 10: Kanye West, much to the chagrin of many on his 409 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 10: own team during the campaign. So Donald Trump is losing 410 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 10: control of his own his own MAGA group, and he 411 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 10: can cry to the wind, but these are two shore 412 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 10: signs of it. 413 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 2: Wow, led by the chain. Genie's not mincing words today, Rick, 414 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 2: what do you make of the Jeffrey Epstein salvo here 415 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 2: on Truth Social I mentioned it coming into our conversation, 416 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 2: and you know how Washington. Is everyone's trying to figure 417 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 2: out two steps ahead here, knowing that the President also 418 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 2: dispatched his Department of Justice to investigate Democrats who were 419 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 2: reportedly on the list here in the Black Book, like 420 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 2: Bill Clinton, among others. Is this a way now for 421 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: the Department of Justice to say, hey, sorry, it's an 422 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,959 Speaker 2: ongoing investigation. I know you've voted to release the files, 423 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 2: but we can't do that now. Yeah. 424 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 8: I mean, you know, by the time the bucks stops 425 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 8: here on the President's desk, it may be sent back 426 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 8: over to the Justice Apartment as you talk about it. 427 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 8: I mean, look, who knew on Friday night that this 428 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 8: thing would breeze through which may be a unanimous vote 429 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 8: in the House of Representatives. 430 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 9: Something that took a discharge petition. 431 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 8: Very unusual, I mean almost unheard of in Washington that 432 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 8: a group of members could overrule the speaker of the 433 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 8: House and as a result may turn out to be 434 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 8: everyone voting for this thing and it gets to the Senate, 435 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 8: and everyone was saying on Friday, hey, no way is 436 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 8: it going to get through the Senate? Oh really, Donald 437 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 8: Trump can get it through the Senate owing his thirteen Republicans. 438 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 8: You don't think he can get thirteen Republicans. So I mean, like, 439 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 8: but then the question is why in the war would 440 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 8: he wanted to get through if he hasked to sign it. 441 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 8: The reality is, if he wants he's released, all he 442 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 8: has to do is pick up the phone, calls buddy 443 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 8: Pam Bondi and say release him. He has had power. 444 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 8: He didn't need Congress to sign off on that. Congress 445 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 8: needs to sign off on that if they want it 446 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 8: done over his head. 447 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 9: So somebody's going to win, somebody's going to lose. 448 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 8: And I sure don't want to place a bet on 449 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 8: this one the way it's headed. 450 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 7: Well, Rick, just to build off that, I mean, you're 451 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 7: if you're a political consultant in the White House right now, 452 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 7: considering all these factors, considering what the DOJ might be 453 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 7: able to do to protect the president, considering the writing 454 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 7: on the wall that the House was already going to 455 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 7: vote in favor, and perhaps the Senate too, as you mentioned, 456 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 7: would you have said, hey, mister President, yeah, just just say, 457 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 7: you know, let them free to vote for the release, 458 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 7: knowing that there are risks here for the release for 459 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 7: Donald Trump himself. 460 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 8: Well, I would assume that I was just brought in 461 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 8: today because I would have never suggested the track they've been. 462 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,959 Speaker 2: On all this time. 463 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 8: I think I'd have blown my brains out, you know. 464 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 8: So the reality is they should have just with this 465 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 8: a long time ago, either had decided to get it 466 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 8: out and done it themselves without any congressional activity, or 467 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 8: had Colt sweated enough Republicans to get off that discharge 468 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 8: petition before it was signed off on. I mean like 469 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 8: it looked like they just reacted at the last minute, 470 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,719 Speaker 8: as if they didn't know this was coming. I mean, 471 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 8: we've been talking about it for months, and so yeah, 472 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 8: I think that it's going to be the kind of 473 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 8: thing now where it's not. 474 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 9: Clear what the position is to take. 475 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 8: I mean, I'm not sure I could take a poll 476 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 8: today that said, hey, is it better or worse for 477 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 8: Donald Trump to actually do this himself and preempt Congress 478 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 8: or let Congress roll him. Nobody buys this fact that 479 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 8: he is now saying, oh, I'm for this now. I 480 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 8: want everybody to get this word out because the reality is, 481 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 8: you don't think there's going to be a massive number 482 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 8: of redactions. 483 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 9: In this material. I mean a thousand. 484 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 8: FBI agents were dispatched earlier to go through this stuff 485 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 8: and redact all the important names Trump included out of 486 00:26:58,880 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 8: that material. 487 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 9: From what the reporting is, you don't like. That's going 488 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 9: to have a backlash if it gets out. So look, 489 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 9: I think. 490 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 8: We're just seeing the beginning of this story. This could 491 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 8: take us all the way through to Christmas Day. Incredible, Jeanie, 492 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 8: just the beginning. What happened to Donald Trump at the 493 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 8: end of last week or over the weekend. He had 494 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 8: Lauren Bobert in this situation room days earlier to peel 495 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 8: her name off the discharge petition. Now he's urging everyone 496 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 8: to vote for it. 497 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 10: Absolutely. I sat here on the show late Friday afternoon 498 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 10: with a theory that I was told was a conspiracy theory, 499 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 10: but not so much. Donald Trump has ordered an investigation 500 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 10: of the Democrats. Tom Massey brought it up on ABC 501 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 10: this weekend, saying it is a big smoke screen. So 502 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 10: he can allow Republicans, encourage them to vote for it, 503 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 10: let it go through the Senate, let him sign it. 504 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 10: He said in his statement, they will get what they 505 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 10: are legally entitled to, And in fact, Bloomberg's Catherine Lucy 506 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 10: asked the President about that for the weekend saying, is 507 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 10: this investigation a smokescreen as Massey called it, so that 508 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 10: those files will not be released? And look at his 509 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 10: response to Catherine. 510 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 2: You are fake news. 511 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 10: You know all of it. He went on and on 512 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 10: about fake news. That is a sure sign. This is 513 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 10: Donald Trump's laybook. 514 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 11: He did this before. 515 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 10: As we remember Joe the irs he can't release his 516 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 10: tax files because they are under AUDI. That is the 517 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 10: same thing Cam Bondy will say about these files. So 518 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 10: all that they're legally entitled to is all we will see, 519 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 10: not a conspiracy theory anymore. 520 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 2: I will say, Wow, this is a great panel today. 521 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 2: This guy's only Monday. Think of where we'll be this 522 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 2: time tomorrow. Jeanie Shanzo and Rick Davis Bloomberg Politics contributors 523 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 2: bringing us analysis and truth every day here on Balance 524 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 2: of Power. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Michelle Jim Risco, who's 525 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 2: going to be back with us tomorrow on the program. 526 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 2: Looking forward to it. 527 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 7: Yeah, happy to be here. 528 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 2: Stay out of trouble in the meantime, because we have 529 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 2: much trouble to find. Stay with us on Balance of Power. 530 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: We'll have much more coming up after this. 531 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 532 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 533 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App, Listen 534 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us 535 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: live on YouTube. 536 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 2: Boy, it's been a moving target recently, and bitcoin has 537 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: all of our attention today as the chart just looks broken. 538 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 2: We talked about bitcoin with Mike McGlone next week, and 539 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,479 Speaker 2: I think we've got to do it again down eight 540 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 2: hundred and seventy dollars right now about one percent to 541 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 2: fall back below ninety three thousand dollars. And if you're 542 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 2: a technician, this is a problem. If you're an investor 543 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: who bought at one hundred and twenty something, well this 544 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 2: is an even bigger problem. Mike McLoone covers commodities for 545 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 2: us at Bloomberg Intelligence, our senior commodity strategy just therefore 546 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: owns the bitcoin beat. It's great to see you, Mike, 547 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 2: and I'm just trying to figure this out here. If 548 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 2: we take a look at what's happening with gold today, 549 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 2: it's still holding above four thousand dollars an ounce. So 550 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: is bitcoin the store of value we thought it was? 551 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 11: No Unfortunately, we're finding out it's has a much higher 552 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 11: correlation to the stock market, which some people consider a 553 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 11: store of value. 554 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 5: But it got way too expensive. 555 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 11: And I, Joe, I really appreciate you putting bitcoin in 556 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 11: gold in the same sentence, because my old mantra used 557 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 11: to be you can't really hold gold anymore without some 558 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 11: bitcoin in that space with the word going digital, but 559 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 11: sometimes it's better to overweight gold, and that's been the 560 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 11: case since last year, certainly since mister Trump was elected 561 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 11: and since the ets era launch. So right now, bitcoin's 562 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 11: hovering around ninety two thousand and eight. Took it was 563 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 11: up thirty four percent of the year, and now it's down. 564 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 11: The key questions was doing to the end of the year. 565 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 11: I think it's going to go a lot lower. Unfortunately, 566 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 11: I don't think it's going to stay above one hundred thousand, 567 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 11: and it could bring a lot of things down with it. 568 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 11: And one key indicator for that is the ounces of 569 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 11: gold equal to one bitcoin. It's great leading indicator. It's 570 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 11: just broken down through key support. Right now, it's about 571 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 11: twenty two point seven. The high was thirty five and 572 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 11: key support was twenty five, So it's breaking down and 573 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 11: Joe also key three minutes the end of the end 574 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 11: of the year, where petitionally this is the time of 575 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 11: year we get position squaring and people hitting stops. I'll 576 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 11: end with one key thing. The Bloomberg Galaxy Crypto Index 577 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 11: was up about thirty percent of the year. Now it's 578 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 11: down about twelve percent a year, so it stops. 579 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 5: Wow. 580 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 2: How much do we need to worry about the technical factors? Here? 581 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 2: Is there support in the seventy thousand or seventy seven 582 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 2: thousand range here? Mic or is the chart broken to 583 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 2: the point where it doesn't matter? 584 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 7: Now? 585 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 11: Well, it's always going to matter. We initially bounced from 586 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 11: one hundred thousand. I think the next key level is 587 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 11: around eighty four thousand. But the key thing is that 588 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 11: we have to talk about technicals because there's no fundamental underlying. 589 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 11: There's no basis. Like I mean, I track crypto dollars, 590 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 11: there's a basis. I trade Crudel futures and there's a basis. 591 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 11: There's nothing in these twenty seven million cryptos, And I 592 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 11: think that's what's happening. Joe's we're finding out, Yes, a 593 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 11: lot of this was Pie and sky Hubrey, and now 594 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 11: we're getting towards the realization that it's just potentially a 595 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 11: start of a bear market, and bit coin's a big one. 596 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 11: But here's the key thing to remember, there was only 597 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 11: one in two thousand and nine, and now there's about 598 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 11: twenty seven million of them unlemited supply these things. 599 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 2: How about that? Well, you wonder about some of the forecasts. 600 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 2: I think Tom Lee had it around two hundred and 601 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars. I think Kathy Wood's got like a 602 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 2: million dollar price target in five years or something. I 603 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 2: don't know how you can even issue a forecast when 604 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 2: you're in the throes of this kind of volatility. But 605 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 2: I'm curious, Mike, what does this mean for the treasury 606 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 2: companies that you know, these crypto treasury companies like Strategy 607 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 2: and others that have promised an even better hedge on crypto. 608 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 2: He's sort of crypto on steroids. They're going down hard 609 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 2: with this too, exactly. 610 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 11: Strategy is one of the worst performing stocks this year. 611 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,959 Speaker 11: I know Michael Saylor, well, he's one of my key indicators. 612 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 11: Got me bullsh bitcoin around ten thousand and twenty twenty 613 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 11: when he turned toward bitcoin. But what he did is 614 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 11: he doubled down in a ten x. He doubled dog 615 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 11: there the market gods with a ten x. It's not 616 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 11: a good idea. So it's starting to lead the way lower. 617 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 11: But the key thing Amember about crypto's treasuries is it's 618 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 11: an oxymorn treasury should be in the same sentence as 619 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 11: treasuries as treasuries. It doesn't make sense. And I just 620 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 11: look at this is the classic stuff. So here's why 621 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,479 Speaker 11: I think it's gonna end up my book someday, Joe. 622 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 11: It's going to either read that this time was different, 623 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 11: this time wasn't different. I think it's going to be 624 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 11: this time wasn't different. We're going to look back at 625 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 11: all these silly crypto things. Is just Pine Sky things 626 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 11: like pets dot Com in nineteen ninety nine. 627 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 2: Can I get the first interview when the book comes out. 628 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to that, Mike Gay, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior 629 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 2: Commodity Strategies. Thank you, Mike. We'll keep tabs on bitcoin 630 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 2: for you. Like I said, we're below ninety three thousand 631 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 2: dollars right now, down more than six tenths of a percent. 632 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 2: President Trump is putting the apron back on this evening. 633 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 2: I'm just assuming that that's what happened the last time 634 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 2: he had a McDonald's event. The Impact Summit hosted by 635 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 2: McDonald's here in Washington is going to draw the president. 636 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 2: This is an event that he'll be attending a little 637 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 2: bit later on, I believe within the White House campus. 638 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 2: I don't know what the venue is going to be here, 639 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 2: but he's going to be talking about his affordability message, 640 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 2: of course, with an audience of McDonald's owners and operators 641 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 2: and suppliers who are all coming together his favorite restaurant chain. 642 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 2: Knowing he loves a big mac and a diet Coke, 643 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 2: loved making the fries too when he was at McDonald's 644 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,760 Speaker 2: on the campaign trail. So this one's got our attention, 645 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 2: knowing that this is such an important message for the president, affordability. 646 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 2: It's not just food after the President issued those exemptions 647 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 2: on tariff's last week on everything from beef to coco 648 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 2: to bananas. It's also healthcare. And this is what draws 649 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 2: our attention to our conversation with Congresswoman Gwen Moore, Knowing 650 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 2: that we've got a couple of weeks to figure something 651 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,720 Speaker 2: out here, either to extend Obamacare premiums, having reopened the government, 652 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 2: or if you ask the President, recraft the entire healthcare 653 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 2: system in the United States. I suppose a third option 654 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 2: would be doing nothing. But here's what the President said 655 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 2: about this over the weekend. 656 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 8: Well, negotiating with lawmakers, and I've had personal talks with 657 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 8: some Democrats. 658 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 2: I can't tell you who they are. I just don't 659 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 2: want to do that. It's not fair to. 660 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:28,720 Speaker 8: Them about paying large amounts of dollars back to the people. 661 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 2: Maybe he's talking to Gwen Moore, the congresswoman from Wisconsin's 662 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 2: fourth district, Democrat with US live from Capitol Hill. Congresswoman, 663 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 2: it's great to see you. Welcome back to Bloomberg TV 664 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 2: and Radio. Have you received any overtures from Republicans when 665 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 2: it comes to negotiating healthcare. 666 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 12: I have not received any overtures, nor have I in 667 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 12: the entire time that I've been in Congress, and since 668 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 12: we've passed the Affordable Care Act, gotten any sort of 669 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 12: alternatives to the ACA also known as Obamacare, and with 670 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 12: regard to the President, given us all a couple of 671 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 12: thousand dollars for our health savings account. Last time I 672 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 12: checked that that really did work. Last time I checked 673 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 12: and I've been around for a while. People have had 674 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 12: these healthcare plans as it were, that barely cost anything, 675 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 12: had high deductibles, didn't provide any healthcare at all. And 676 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,240 Speaker 12: it looks like Obamacare is a life support right now. 677 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 2: Well, if we do not see an extension of these 678 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 2: COVID era subsidies that we've been talking about straight through 679 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 2: the shutdown, this is a big reason why Democrats and 680 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 2: Republicans could not get on the same page. What happens 681 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 2: to people in Wisconsin. This is something that could cause 682 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 2: premiums to double or quadruple, depending on where you are. 683 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 12: Yeah, that's true, one hundred and fourteen percent, and that's 684 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 12: an average, but it's even more than that. I had 685 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 12: conversation with folks this weekend, you know, and they've been 686 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 12: seeing and listening to something other than the TV commercials 687 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 12: and Republican and Democratic talking points. They are actually getting 688 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 12: the proposals in the mail, and they can see that 689 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 12: they've gone from paying, you know, one hundred and fifty 690 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,959 Speaker 12: dollars for coverage to like eight hundred dollars a month 691 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 12: for coverage. Just a couple of people I talked to 692 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 12: this weekend, you know, So the whole notion that costs 693 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 12: are going down under President Trump's administration, and they're going 694 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 12: to have an alternative. I mean, people are not stupid. 695 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:45,760 Speaker 12: They they they are experiencing this shift. 696 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 2: Congresswoman. The president, you might have fird me mentioned, is 697 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 2: going to be having an event with McDonald's owners and 698 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 2: operators this evening. And we've heard from McDonald's just a 699 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago in its earnings report, and it 700 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,720 Speaker 2: told us that low income customers we're actually falling off 701 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,760 Speaker 2: its list of customers, and that people with more money 702 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 2: we're trading down. If we're in a world now, I 703 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 2: don't know if you prefer an extra value meal or 704 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 2: the dollar menu at McDonald's, Congressman, but if we're in 705 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 2: a world where low income people are not able to 706 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 2: afford a one dollar meal or whatever it costs for 707 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,839 Speaker 2: an extra value meal at McDonald's, what does that tell 708 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 2: us about where we are here in the affordability conversation. 709 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 5: Well, the extra. 710 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 12: Value bills are no longer an extra value. 711 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 2: You know. 712 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 12: Of course, I fed my kids, my grandkids on McDonald's, 713 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 12: And I mean this is one of the canaries in 714 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 12: the coal mine when you can't afford to just drive 715 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 12: through without being concerned that you're spending your kids lunch 716 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 12: money for the whole week. When you drive through one time, 717 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 12: you know, that's a measurement of people's well being. People 718 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 12: don't have to discern whether or not they can afford 719 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:02,240 Speaker 12: a lobster. When you can't take your kids drive through McDonald's, 720 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 12: you know you're in trouble. 721 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 2: Well, that might be where we are here, depending on 722 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 2: how this all works out, Congresswoman. The president is putting 723 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 2: exemptions on certain food items when it comes to tariffs. 724 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,919 Speaker 2: If you're with us on Bloomberg TV, you can see 725 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,919 Speaker 2: them reaching out of the drive through window there from 726 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,439 Speaker 2: the campaign trail. What are we going to see happen 727 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 2: to prices when it comes to food and energy in 728 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 2: the weeks ahead? Well, price volatility where it goes. 729 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 12: I don't know that people are going to experience. 730 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 2: Those drops right away. 731 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 12: You know, a lot of these tariffs have been baked 732 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 12: into the academy. I have one vendor in my district 733 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 12: and I won't mention the name, but they bought some 734 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 12: equipment to expand their business. Those tariffs have been paid, 735 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 12: and they've already had to either pay them or bake 736 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 12: them into the price of their product. I mean, you 737 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 12: can't just hit the undo button on everything, and I 738 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 12: think that that's where we are. 739 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 2: Our farmers in Wisconsin. 740 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 12: I represent Milwaukee, but I'm very sensitive to the firm 741 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 12: to table catastrophe. Our farmers have completely lost all their 742 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 12: markets for their soybeans to China. You can't just hit 743 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 12: the undo button, snap your fingers and have that return. 744 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 2: You know, the next vote you might take, from what 745 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 2: we understand, is on this discharge petition to release the 746 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 2: Epstein files. Congresswoman, the President has turned a one to 747 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 2: eighty on this to tell Republicans to vote for it, 748 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,400 Speaker 2: so this could pass, we understand with a pretty remarkable 749 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 2: vote tomorrow. I'm wondering if you expected unanimous results and 750 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 2: to what extent this has hit your conference as a Democrat, Well, I. 751 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 11: Can tell you. 752 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 12: If the President has told Republicans to vote for it, 753 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 12: I'm sure they will. Of course, this is a defensive 754 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 12: tactic on his part, because you'll do is still say 755 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 12: that all we're investigating this thing, We're looking at what 756 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:10,839 Speaker 12: Democrats Larry Summers or Bill Clinton has done. We're investigating it. 757 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 12: So therefore the Justice Department just can't release the information. 758 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 12: You know, the bottom line is that the President of 759 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 12: the United States does not want his relationship with Epstein, 760 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 12: which you know is extensive and over long periods of time, 761 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 12: and is that at least embarrassing to come out. 762 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:34,839 Speaker 2: Well, we'll have a lot more to learn about this, 763 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 2: I guess in the days ahead. Congresswoman, that's when more 764 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,720 Speaker 2: live on Capitol Hill. The Democrat from Milwaukee, Wisconsin's fourth 765 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 2: district talking with us live here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. 766 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 2: We should mention Larry Summers as a paid contributor to 767 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 2: Bloomberg TV, and we'll have a lot more on this 768 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 2: conversation as we move forward here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. 769 00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. To 770 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,320 Speaker 2: subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever 771 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, and you can find us live 772 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 2: every weekday from Washington, DC at Noontimeeastern at Bloomberg dot com.