Speaker 1: Welcome to I do part two, the pod for people
Speaker 1: who didn't get it right the first time when it
Speaker 1: came to love and now find themselves picking up the
Speaker 1: pieces and putting themselves back together. I'm Cheryl Burke, one
Speaker 1: of your celebrity mentors, and I'm just like you guys.
Speaker 1: I'm divorced. I've been through the ringer. I know how
Speaker 1: hard it is, and today I just want to kind
Speaker 1: of take over and talk about my experience and where
Speaker 1: I'm at post divorce. Valentine's Day coming up. But we
Speaker 1: can't do this without my producer, Heather, who is also
Speaker 1: single and almost forty, but she still has a few
Speaker 1: more years. She's gonna grill me. So this should be fun.
Speaker 1: Hi Share, Welcome, Hi, Hey girl, Welcome.
Speaker 2: Hi, Thank you. So I want to talk obviously about
Speaker 2: your ex experience a little bit, so kind of like
Speaker 2: run us through the highlights. I know you had the
Speaker 2: big wedding, but like talk about how long were you
Speaker 2: married for and how long has it been since you're divorce.
Speaker 1: Okay, well I was married first of all, so this
Speaker 1: was a relationship that you know, we started dating when
Speaker 1: I first moved to LA But I'm not going to
Speaker 1: talk too much about him, but I'll definitely talk more
Speaker 1: about just my experience and I I love convert in
Speaker 1: any way, shape and form, So like I just it
Speaker 1: was really it's always been weird for me to like
Speaker 1: date and just to meet people, especially in the business
Speaker 1: that I am. But even before this business, it wasn't that.
Speaker 1: It was just that I'm naturally introverted, right, So when
Speaker 1: I feel comfortable around somebody, you know, the and if
Speaker 1: let's say, we break up, which I did with my
Speaker 1: ex at that time after dating for the like for
Speaker 1: a year back in two thousand and six or seven,
Speaker 1: and then we reuni, I did and it just felt comfortable,
Speaker 1: you know, and it was just like, Okay, we don't
Speaker 1: have to do the whole like it's a small talk
Speaker 1: that just gets me anyway. Then yes, then we get
Speaker 1: married and we were married for we started dating again
Speaker 1: for another year I believe a year and a half
Speaker 1: before we got married or engaged, and then we got
Speaker 1: married very soon later.
Speaker 2: Can I jump in and ask you this, whose idea
Speaker 2: was it to get married?
Speaker 1: Totally mine? I'll take full accountability. Yeah, I don't think
Speaker 1: he was. I Mean, look, there was conversations, but every
Speaker 1: time it was me starting the conversation, right, because I
Speaker 1: also was like older, so it was ten years of
Speaker 1: that gap between when we first dated and then started again.
Speaker 1: But it was kind of like okay, but when you're older,
Speaker 1: you know, you're kind of thinking like, well, if this
Speaker 1: person's not serious, then like why waste time? Right? And
Speaker 1: I get I'm like what is time now? Now I'm
Speaker 1: a different woman, and I'm like, it's it's just so
Speaker 1: interesting how we put so much pressure, especially women, because
Speaker 1: we think that there's this schedule that we need to
Speaker 1: follow as far as getting married and having kids. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's the conventional way, right, It's what society expects from you.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't have to be in any order or
Speaker 1: at any time, amen, or does it ever have to
Speaker 1: happen period?
Speaker 2: Did you ever consider not getting married and just being
Speaker 2: in a long term partnership?
Speaker 1: Not then, not back then? No, that was my goal.
Speaker 1: The goal was to get married, Like it was literally
Speaker 1: to get married. I wasn't even thinking kids. I was
Speaker 1: just to get married.
Speaker 2: It was just to get married. And so where where
Speaker 2: did you feel like that came from? Was that about
Speaker 2: the environment you were raised in or was it about
Speaker 2: all of your friends were getting married, like pressure being
Speaker 2: in the public eye and not being married yet, Like
Speaker 2: where or was it just you just wanted that you
Speaker 2: just grew up wanting to get married. Where do you
Speaker 2: think it came from?
Speaker 1: It came from like all those movies, like you know,
Speaker 1: those rom comps. But also honestly, if you really want
Speaker 1: to get deep here in a quick SoundBite. But it
Speaker 1: was for my feeling at that time. I definitely didn't
Speaker 1: love myself. I didn't even start that work, nor was
Speaker 1: I interested, even though I was in therapy and I
Speaker 1: have been forever. You know, there's certain things that you know,
Speaker 1: my therapist now brings to my attention that I'll just
Speaker 1: change the subject if it's something that I don't want
Speaker 1: to talk about, And that was one of them, you know.
Speaker 1: And it was so much about what the person outside
Speaker 1: sources what can fill my cup up? And one of
Speaker 1: that and one of my goals was to see if
Speaker 1: I can get married, and has nothing to do with
Speaker 1: the person I married. It has everything to do with
Speaker 1: how no matter what I did, it doesn't matter, Like
Speaker 1: you can't fill No one is going to fill your
Speaker 1: cup up. Shopping's not going to fill your cup up.
Speaker 1: You are, you need to do the internal work, and
Speaker 1: that did not make any sense to me until recently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that makes a lot of sense, though.
Speaker 2: I want to know now post divorce, what has kind
Speaker 2: of or right after the divorce, let's say, let's go
Speaker 2: back to that. Right after the divorce, what was the focus.
Speaker 2: Was it to get into therapy?
Speaker 1: Was it to build I was already in therapy, okay.
Speaker 2: Was it to build a new circle of friends. Was
Speaker 2: it to focus more on yourself? Was it to start
Speaker 2: a new life or what was kind of like that
Speaker 2: when you first got divorced? What was the focus right
Speaker 2: then and there?
Speaker 1: I didn't have any type of goal, like to be
Speaker 1: quite like just transparent with you. It was really about
Speaker 1: surviving day after day, and it was one day at
Speaker 1: a time, sometimes one hour at a time, sometimes one
Speaker 1: minute at a time. And I'm very goal oriented, right,
Speaker 1: But it naturally, honestly, it naturally became about me ghosting
Speaker 1: everybody around me and doing the work myself. Because what
Speaker 1: I realized naturally, and I don't think I was able
Speaker 1: to put it into words at that time, but I
Speaker 1: can't be vulnerable with other people sometimes like that vulnerable
Speaker 1: like when it comes to like really feeling grief. I
Speaker 1: even have trouble doing that, but when I'm by myself,
Speaker 1: you know, so it's like, because it's so painful that
Speaker 1: like I am a professional disassociator, and I definitely numb,
Speaker 1: and though it's not through alcohol anymore, there's so many
Speaker 1: other things I can do, right, So the list goes on,
Speaker 1: and I am in order for me to really make
Speaker 1: progress and to really feel okay in my own skin
Speaker 1: and to feel alone, not lonely, like I sound like
Speaker 1: a broken record, but like it's it really does start within.
Speaker 1: And first my first priority, to be quite honest, was
Speaker 1: staying sober, so that was definitely something that I was
Speaker 1: aware of at that time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an important thing that you channeled a lot
Speaker 2: of energy into. And I do want to commend you
Speaker 2: for being so open about that because I do think
Speaker 2: that that's a huge step for anybody in life. Choosing
Speaker 2: to be sober, and you choosing to share that on
Speaker 2: a large platform I think is really incredible. I want
Speaker 2: to talk about the fact that you are a childless.
Speaker 1: Woman, my friend. You accounts those well.
Speaker 2: Babies always count, but I want to talk about this
Speaker 2: because I think it's something that sometimes gets overlooked when
Speaker 2: it comes to divorce. I think a lot of people
Speaker 2: focus on divorce single parent aspect and what that kind
Speaker 2: of entails. But you know, just because you don't have
Speaker 2: children doesn't make this experience that you went through any
Speaker 2: less painful or meaningful. But I kind of want to know,
Speaker 2: from your perspective and what you've gone through, did it
Speaker 2: feel different because you didn't have children and you didn't
Speaker 2: have somebody. I mean, you had a fur baby to
Speaker 2: take care of, right, but you didn't have have a
Speaker 2: human being to take care of. You didn't have somebody
Speaker 2: to put on a brave face for. Sometimes we hear
Speaker 2: a lot about single parents having to do that.
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know, because I've never had kids,
Speaker 1: right Like, I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2: Did you feel supported? I guess I want to know.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of times we hear about stories
Speaker 2: of people being rallied around because they need that extra support,
Speaker 2: and sometimes us single girls that don't have kids, I
Speaker 2: feel like we're viewed as you got this, you're strong.
Speaker 2: What was your perspective like, did you have that?
Speaker 1: I don't I have never never crossed my mind and
Speaker 1: I've never felt that, but I, like, you know, I
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier if I needed the support, absolutely, and I did.
Speaker 1: And I and though she is on someone I pay
Speaker 1: my therapist for me because I am so sensitive to bias, right,
Speaker 1: Like I don't want At that time in my life,
Speaker 1: I needed just to hear the truth, right, and I
Speaker 1: really need it, just to hear it, and not because
Speaker 1: of any type of politics being played, like I and
Speaker 1: for me, that person was my therapist. I really leaned
Speaker 1: on her a lot. And you know, I've been with
Speaker 1: her for fifteen years. And I have to say the
Speaker 1: reason I have been with her because I'm sensitive, as
Speaker 1: I said, to bias, I is because she's not biased
Speaker 1: like by any means. And I have to say that
Speaker 1: she definitely you know, it was difficult. It was hard.
Speaker 1: It was hard, truth because like she also is very
Speaker 1: much all about taking accountability, and that is a thing
Speaker 1: that you know, and sometimes that's the last thing you
Speaker 1: want to do, right when you have all this anger
Speaker 1: and rage. But I leaned on her a lot, and
Speaker 1: I also lean and then with that, you know, it
Speaker 1: was my choice to leave Los Angeles and move and
Speaker 1: I don't believe a lot of people would choose that
Speaker 1: after a divorce not just with their partner, but also
Speaker 1: leaving a job that they've done for seventeen years of
Speaker 1: their life, and the same year choose to move right.
Speaker 1: So those are three huge changes that I think it's
Speaker 1: my addict brain that's like, okay, I have to if
Speaker 1: I'm going to just change my whole life, then I'm
Speaker 1: changing my whole life. That house I was in for
Speaker 1: sixteen years just reminded me of everything, right, So it
Speaker 1: was like it was very important for me to do this,
Speaker 1: And I don't know if I were to, like if
Speaker 1: I'm like thinking about those decisions now and I'm like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: that was bold. That was like three life changes. Like
Speaker 1: they say, if you go up to five in one year,
Speaker 1: you need to like go to the nearest mental and
Speaker 1: like it will make you mental, right, like because it's
Speaker 1: just so much change. But then also with that, you know,
Speaker 1: my friends have changed right too and naturally. But like
Speaker 1: I've never felt so grounded, and so look, there's fucking
Speaker 1: days where I don't feel like this. Okay, I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to say like I have served like you know, no,
Speaker 1: there's shirty days, absolutely, but I've never felt lonely.
Speaker 2: So I'd love to hear that. Let me ask you
Speaker 2: something super personal. You can be like sure, I want
Speaker 2: to answer that. No, I know, okay, what are your
Speaker 2: views on children? Is that something that you think about,
Speaker 2: something that you want in your lifetime? Still don't know,
Speaker 2: like kind of.
Speaker 1: Where you are. I actually talked about it with my
Speaker 1: therapist recently, and she's like, the way you treat your dog,
Speaker 1: are you sure you want to have kids? Because my
Speaker 1: dog is a spoiled brat, like literally spoiled twenty four
Speaker 1: hour care over here because she needs it, but or
Speaker 1: I think she needs it. But you know, I believe,
Speaker 1: and I've just okay, I believe. Okay, of course it's
Speaker 1: great to raise a kid with two people, right like
Speaker 1: obviously because I come from a divorce family, and because
Speaker 1: I know how much it affected me and other stories
Speaker 1: I've heard even if I was so young, it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: stills ingrained in my freaking identity, right I. And this
Speaker 1: is not going to be popular, I don't. I believe
Speaker 1: that it's okay to raise kids on your own, like
Speaker 1: and actually to start it off like that would probably
Speaker 1: be healthier than having to rely on another partner, not
Speaker 1: knowing what mood that person's going to wake up in
Speaker 1: and not knowing what this kid is going to observe.
Speaker 1: And at least you have control for the most part
Speaker 1: over yourself in your kids.
Speaker 2: I will say, Cheryl, you say that that's unpopular. I
Speaker 2: think that's becoming more popular as time goes on. I mean,
Speaker 2: I could draw a conclusion right now to like Lalla
Speaker 2: on vander Pump Rules, after having one child in that relationship,
Speaker 2: decided I still want to be a mom. That is
Speaker 2: still really important to me. And she opted to have
Speaker 2: a sperm donor and had that second child and is
Speaker 2: raising it on her own because she does not want
Speaker 2: to go through kind of the conflict that she went
Speaker 2: through with her child's father.
Speaker 1: How has people, I guess it been celebrated at all.
Speaker 2: Or totally celebrated. She had a baby shower, She has
Speaker 2: been you know, uh, embraced by her family. Yeah. So,
Speaker 2: I mean that was a journey that she went on
Speaker 2: on her own. And I think, you know, I I
Speaker 2: know in my professional life, I have worked with women
Speaker 2: that you know, were in their fifties and decided to
Speaker 2: adopt on their own and become mothers later in life.
Speaker 2: And one of them, I actually know ended up then
Speaker 2: meeting a spouse later on after bringing you know, adopting
Speaker 2: a child on her own. I know, like Coda on
Speaker 2: the Today Show, she's done it on her own as well.
Speaker 2: So I think it's it is becoming I think, a
Speaker 2: more popular and mainstream decision for women because they feel
Speaker 2: similar to what you're expressing, you know, like they want
Speaker 2: the risk. You know, they've maybe gone through something. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm a product of divorce too, so when you talk
Speaker 2: about that, I totally understand those feelings and how that
Speaker 2: sticks with you. And I do think that you know, yes, ideally,
Speaker 2: it's it's I think it's less about that a child
Speaker 2: necessarily needs two parents as it's more it's a tough job.
Speaker 2: So if you have somebody to share the workload with,
Speaker 2: that I think does sound great. But I think that
Speaker 2: you and I both know that there's a lot of
Speaker 2: single parents out there in the world that are kicking
Speaker 2: ass right now and doing yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also, look, I didn't freeze. I've chosen not
Speaker 1: to freeze my eggs and I don't plan on ever
Speaker 1: doing that, So Noor, I don't think it'll be possible
Speaker 1: soon or if it's not possible. Now, it's not possible.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter either way, that's not happening. So what
Speaker 1: my therapist and I were talking about was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: she does have a friend that she was able to,
Speaker 1: you know, get a donor and then like have a
Speaker 1: surrogate and do that whole thing. And at first I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, adopt, but then I'm like, oh wait,
Speaker 1: even realize that that was an option. So but I'm
Speaker 1: not clearly, I'm not that like, Okay, tomorrow, we're doing this.
Speaker 1: I'm not ready yet. And this is the beauty of
Speaker 1: also in a way, where we are today in this
Speaker 1: world as far as you know, technology, and it's scary
Speaker 1: but also very helpful for women who feel like they
Speaker 1: haven't finished what they're trying to do, whatever that is.
Speaker 1: And I don't feel like I have started my second
Speaker 1: chapter yet in my career yet, so like I don't
Speaker 1: want to. I don't think it would be responsible for
Speaker 1: me to bring in a kid right now if I
Speaker 1: don't feel I mean, I guess I'm never gonna be ready.
Speaker 1: No one is, and I guess I'm never going to
Speaker 1: feel settled because like how boring is that? But I
Speaker 1: know that there's more that I need to do as
Speaker 1: an individual before sharing my life with somebody.
Speaker 2: And Cheryl, I know I'm not your mom, but I
Speaker 2: can also say this to you. You are allowed to
Speaker 2: change your mind at any time. Yeah, any of this too,
Speaker 2: but not when you have the kid, not once you
Speaker 2: have the kid. That's what I read. You have children
Speaker 2: for sure, And so I think that's important, right because
Speaker 2: I think sometimes people are put a lot of pressure
Speaker 2: on themselves to make a decision and stick to that answer.
Speaker 2: And you know, we are allowed to change our minds
Speaker 2: about things. And you could want to get married again someday, yea,
Speaker 2: not want to have children again someday and life changes.
Speaker 1: How about just the dating, Like I'm not dating and
Speaker 1: I'm choosing not to date, like forget the marriage. How
Speaker 1: much is meeting somebody? I'm like, I am perfectly content
Speaker 1: in this home, with these four walls. I never have
Speaker 1: to leave.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about it, Cheryl, because I do want to
Speaker 2: talk about what's going on with the not dating.
Speaker 1: I knew this was a note from Amy Sugarman, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah right, All y'all think it's so weird, Like, well,
Speaker 1: what is happening?
Speaker 2: Weird. Hello, I'm not dating either, Cheryl.
Speaker 1: I bet you you leave your house more than I do, though.
Speaker 2: Probably not Cheryl. But I want to know when was
Speaker 2: your last date?
Speaker 1: Amy Shag from that dude that's Kelly's dating Yeah, mister Tennis.
Speaker 1: But is she still dating him? I forgot, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I haven't gotten up date. But I want to know
Speaker 2: when was that date? So your last date was when?
Speaker 1: I don't know? I mean, I can check my calendar.
Speaker 2: Hold on, are we talking over three hundred and sixty
Speaker 2: five days?
Speaker 1: Like? Oh, for sure it was when I was just moving. Okay,
Speaker 1: zero interests, don't even try.
Speaker 2: But no, but tell me where where? Like I want
Speaker 2: to know as a single you're gorgeous, you're talented, you have,
Speaker 2: like you just said, you're so busy right now, it's
Speaker 2: like so hard to even lock you down.
Speaker 1: No, but I'm not, like, I'm not.
Speaker 2: I just I want to know, Like, when Cheryl goes
Speaker 2: out to the bank or to run errands, do you
Speaker 2: turn your hand to me?
Speaker 1: They come to me attractive men?
Speaker 2: Are we not even looking at men? Are we blinders?
Speaker 1: On? Oh? Hell yeah, Like I'm following some hot dudes
Speaker 1: on and mind you like errands come to me like
Speaker 1: this is the invention. This is what I mean. Technology
Speaker 1: like instacard, like you know, bank like you can do everything.
Speaker 1: I don't remember the last time I set foot in
Speaker 1: a bank anyway. Yeah, no, of course, I still think
Speaker 1: guys are hot. That doesn't mean though, that they deserve me.
Speaker 2: Of course. Wait, are guys sliding into your dms.
Speaker 1: Ever old creepy ones? But like I think about it,
Speaker 1: I'm not one to post like my tits are not out,
Speaker 1: Like I don't do that right, Like.
Speaker 2: Like you're still stunning and you're still active on social media.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean no. But to answer you, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't check like the other you know,
Speaker 1: there's messages. There's so many sections of messages the others. No,
Speaker 1: that's not what I meant.
Speaker 2: But like you know, oh, I know what you mean,
Speaker 2: the other messages, the non blue check messages that come through.
Speaker 1: I got you. I was not giving off that vibe.
Speaker 1: I truly believe that, Like my energy is not like
Speaker 1: damn me.
Speaker 2: Sure, but listen, like I said, I think you're glowing.
Speaker 2: You're gorgeous.
Speaker 1: I know I am. I am in the best shape
Speaker 1: in the world right now. More than when I was
Speaker 1: on Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2: You have great content that you're putting out about loving yourself.
Speaker 2: It's not like it's not crossing any men's hats.
Speaker 1: That's intimidating for men.
Speaker 2: You know what, I don't know. I've never been attracted
Speaker 2: to beta men's so I've never been like into a
Speaker 2: guy that like, was ever intimidated by me anyways.
Speaker 1: That's just never how I heard interesting.
Speaker 2: I don't ever tend to like.
Speaker 1: So are you attracted to the opposite, then.
Speaker 2: I'm attracted to strong, quiet confidence, So I'm not attracted
Speaker 2: to alpha males that are super loud and boisterous about it.
Speaker 2: I'm attracted to more of a quiet confidence that doesn't
Speaker 2: need to put that out to the world.
Speaker 1: That's great considering you came from a divorce family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I also, Cheryl, this is not my
Speaker 2: therapy session.
Speaker 1: What It's so true though, I mean, come on it.
Speaker 1: People can learn from you too, girl. We are normal people.
Speaker 1: I'm normal, We're normal humans.
Speaker 2: Right, I do part two phase, Cheryl. I'm still I'm
Speaker 2: not in.
Speaker 1: Your mid thirties. You just got out of a very
Speaker 1: long relationship. You just moved as well, Like this is
Speaker 1: a very similar path.
Speaker 2: Similar but haven't had the marital relationships and haven't.
Speaker 1: But you would have, don't lie.
Speaker 2: I would have for sure, I would have had my
Speaker 2: relationship progress, but it did not.
Speaker 1: Correct until you bounced good girl.
Speaker 2: Yes, but I want to I want to go back
Speaker 2: to you because we touched on this a minute ago
Speaker 2: about the not dating, but I want to go back
Speaker 2: on celibacy. So you have been very open on the
Speaker 2: podcast about your decision to be celibate, and so I
Speaker 2: want to know, though, where did that come from? Was
Speaker 2: that a decision that you made on your own? Were
Speaker 2: you inspired by somebody else that was talking about celibacy?
Speaker 2: Was that something that came hand in hand with your sobriety?
Speaker 2: Like kind of about where the celibacy came from?
Speaker 1: I mean all of the above, but really what I
Speaker 1: started laughing because it's like, well, if I'm not dating, right,
Speaker 1: and I'm not necessarily like I'm not even texting like
Speaker 1: anyone that I'm interested in, right, like whatever it comes
Speaker 1: natural obviously, Like I'm also not the girl that does
Speaker 1: like I would never I never have well I mean
Speaker 1: maybe who cares, but the one night stands, like I
Speaker 1: just don't especially as a sober woman and just respecting
Speaker 1: and loving myself. Like I don't do that shit, so
Speaker 1: it kind of.
Speaker 2: Take anybody who does if they're into now I.
Speaker 1: Wish I could do. I wish I could separate. Like
Speaker 1: the thing is, you have sex with me, I fall
Speaker 1: in love fast, so like this is not a good thing, right,
Speaker 1: So we're working through this. We're like, Okay, well, maybe
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be so intense, like I am
Speaker 1: such an intense you know woman, Like whatever it is,
Speaker 1: what it is.
Speaker 2: That's really I mean I also think that.
Speaker 1: But it hurts, like it hurt like literally, like you
Speaker 1: have some with me, it's like you're screwed. And this
Speaker 1: was in the past, and I'm talking past tense, right,
Speaker 1: and it's and the obsession, the uh not obsession like
Speaker 1: scary like those weird movies, like that's not what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about, but like the fact that like it'll completely
Speaker 1: take over my my thought process, like this person and
Speaker 1: the fantasy of this person, because it's not real. None
Speaker 1: of it is real. Well the only thing that was
Speaker 1: real with whatever happened physically that you allowed for it
Speaker 1: to happen, right, And I think a lot of that
Speaker 1: maybe back in the day when I would have casual
Speaker 1: maybe relationships or intimacy, it really just continue to chip
Speaker 1: away at my soul because at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: that says a lot about me. Right.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, it's also important to have sex with feelings, though,
Speaker 2: I mean I just personally, I think everybody can have
Speaker 2: casual sex that means nothing, and that's fine and dandy,
Speaker 2: but we all know that the best kind of sex
Speaker 2: is when you have that emotional connection to somebody too.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think that's what I'm talking about, because
Speaker 1: I don't think that's ever happened.
Speaker 2: Wait, Cheryl unpacked that for me. What do you mean
Speaker 2: that has nothing?
Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with the person that And
Speaker 1: I've had sex with more than one person. People. People
Speaker 1: are going to always everything that I say always relates
Speaker 1: to my act Like you guys, I am I have
Speaker 1: dated more than enough.
Speaker 2: Yes, we're being very clear. Cheryl is a grown woman.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm not just referring to one every time I
Speaker 1: do a stupid TikTok. You're like, oh my god, you're
Speaker 1: not over it. I'm like, wait, what, I've had like
Speaker 1: twenty relationships, Like actually, anyway, so what is another thing?
Speaker 1: That has been an ongoing conversation in my therapy session
Speaker 1: is have I ever been vulnerable enough right to, you know,
Speaker 1: be truly intimate? And no, because I think it was
Speaker 1: because of my sexual abuse as a kid. So for me,
Speaker 1: certain things are very intimate that I don't do unless
Speaker 1: and I'm talking about physical things, unless I am one
Speaker 1: hundred percent feeling safe, and which is very rare. I
Speaker 1: don't remember when the last time that happened.
Speaker 2: Actually, I think that all of that makes total sense.
Speaker 2: It's interesting to hear you say that you struggle with
Speaker 2: vulnerability because just in the brief amount of.
Speaker 1: Tay intimacy, physical intimacy.
Speaker 2: Physical intimacy is what you struggle with you you don't
Speaker 2: you struggle with vulnerability.
Speaker 1: It depends I'm more vulnerable. This is another thing my
Speaker 1: therapist pointed out via zoom than I am in person.
Speaker 2: Well, I was just about to say, in the short
Speaker 2: amount of time that we've been each other's lives, I
Speaker 2: feel like you've been incredibly vulnerable and an open book,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like you Jo when.
Speaker 1: You saw me in person, Yes, I felt.
Speaker 2: Like that when I saw you in person, you were
Speaker 2: trying to talk to me about what yeah, going on
Speaker 2: with me, of course, But I still think that I
Speaker 2: didn't feel any part of you that was closed off
Speaker 2: or evasive or anything like that.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's so dramatic, right, I don't think
Speaker 1: it's black and white, But I understand, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: like if you, if me and you were like by
Speaker 1: ourselves like I am, like with my therapist, if I
Speaker 1: saw her face to face, which I have just recently
Speaker 1: versus zoom. I think that it's interesting because I can
Speaker 1: feel it. My body's uncomfortable in person when I talk
Speaker 1: about stuff like this on one on one, let's say,
Speaker 1: in person versus zoom.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's interesting. Well, I kind of want to talk
Speaker 2: about date. I know dating is not at the forefront
Speaker 2: of your mind right now.
Speaker 1: Is it on you? Is it on yours?
Speaker 2: No? But my sadly, but my situation has not been
Speaker 2: three hundred and sixty five plus days and market situation.
Speaker 1: He's counting, but honestly, who's count Why count? No?
Speaker 2: Also, Cheryl, if I'm just being totally honest, I am
Speaker 2: not a bombshell like you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are, shut up. That's the number one thing
Speaker 1: that has to change.
Speaker 2: What's the number one thing that has to change.
Speaker 1: You need to say to yourself because you are a
Speaker 1: freaking bomb.
Speaker 2: You're a catch anyways, Cheryl. I want to know though,
Speaker 2: because this is what happens with me. I I'm of
Speaker 2: the mindset in this moment right now for me, I
Speaker 2: don't know if I will ever date again. And I
Speaker 2: know that that sounds really dramatic and really whoa because
Speaker 2: I am not middle aged yet and whatnot A'm somebody
Speaker 2: listening might right now might be like, is.
Speaker 1: But why are you thinking so far?
Speaker 2: Because I think similar to what you said, that it's
Speaker 2: hard for me to connect and it's really difficult for
Speaker 2: me to connect with men particularly. I have tons of girlfriends,
Speaker 2: I have about zero male friends and it is just
Speaker 2: not something that I just I don't like the small
Speaker 2: chat with men. I don't want to talk about the
Speaker 2: things that I want to talk about High Housewives, Bravo
Speaker 2: like that kind of stuff. And no, I've had I've
Speaker 2: had gay male friends in my life and I that's
Speaker 2: not what I'm talking about. But it's like, it's very
Speaker 2: it was. Dating was always was a struggle for me.
Speaker 2: It was really hard.
Speaker 1: What part of the dating was Oh my.
Speaker 2: Gosh, the fact that I wasn't willing to get intimate
Speaker 2: right away.
Speaker 1: Is this prior to your boyfriend?
Speaker 2: Yeah, when I was dating like heavily days.
Speaker 1: But how long ago was that?
Speaker 2: Ten years ago?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Things have changed, I think supposedly. Do you believe
Speaker 1: that you're making it impossible for yourself because you feel
Speaker 1: like you need to say why you're not willing to
Speaker 1: date instead of just saying I'm just not into dating period.
Speaker 2: No, I'm pretty open. I think also with my therapist
Speaker 2: and with my circle that I'm not interested in dating
Speaker 2: at all right now. I don't think I have the
Speaker 2: capacity anyways. But because also I remember how much effort
Speaker 2: it took when I did date. So when I was single,
Speaker 2: I did the blind dates, I did the setups, I
Speaker 2: did online dating, I did group dating. I did set up.
Speaker 1: With people were group dating.
Speaker 2: Oh, there used to be a website back in any
Speaker 2: of the thousands that was called grouper, And you went
Speaker 2: on and signed up to go on a group date,
Speaker 2: and what they were weird be paid for it in advance,
Speaker 2: and the company made the reservation and you all met
Speaker 2: up at said place.
Speaker 1: Wow, you really put way more effort than I ever
Speaker 1: have or will.
Speaker 2: That's why I think that to me is the overwhelming
Speaker 2: thing that makes me not want to get back out
Speaker 2: there is I know how much effort I put in
Speaker 2: to get to my ten year relationship, and I don't
Speaker 2: have the stamina and the mental ensor okay to put
Speaker 2: myself through that.
Speaker 1: Again right now today.
Speaker 2: You don't today, right now, in this moment. But that's
Speaker 2: why I want to know for you that has had
Speaker 2: the time physically the distance. You have more distance between
Speaker 2: your relationship than I do. Right now. I want to
Speaker 2: know why you're at this place where you're not putting
Speaker 2: the effort into dating or interested in putting into it
Speaker 2: right now in your life.
Speaker 1: Because I'm putting it into me. Because I was a
Speaker 1: serial dater, right so, I dated from the age good
Speaker 1: old ripe age of thirteen until three years ago, back
Speaker 1: to back. I'm not even joking, not even a day, okay,
Speaker 1: like it was back to back to back. And these
Speaker 1: are all serious relationships. But because I was so scared
Speaker 1: of being lonely, I always had a backup plan. That
Speaker 1: sounds so bad, but it's true.
Speaker 2: But Cheryl, I know people exactly like you. I know
Speaker 2: a lot of women specifically just like that.
Speaker 1: It's scary it's fear of being alone in your own head,
Speaker 1: your voice and your voices in your head, the thoughts
Speaker 1: that you think about about yourself. It isn't necessarily enticing,
Speaker 1: right You're not like I look forward to it, No,
Speaker 1: But then you do it, and then you realize, oh,
Speaker 1: it's not that bad. And by the way, everyone thinks
Speaker 1: like this about themselves and it's normal, but it's so empowering.
Speaker 1: And I you know, like how the time is really
Speaker 1: just an illusion? Like for me, I see it. I
Speaker 1: was just saying this to my sister. She wants me
Speaker 1: to do her makeup for her wedding, and I've been
Speaker 1: like freaking out about that. Anyway, that's a whole nother podcast.
Speaker 1: But I have been like saying to my sister of like,
Speaker 1: I don't even know how much time has gone by
Speaker 1: since my last relationship or whatever. But I also it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, when something's just not in your zeitgeist, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like it is not not even close to a priority
Speaker 1: right now. And I am being so selfish in a
Speaker 1: good way that I've never done this before in my life.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I was a serial dater for twenty
Speaker 1: years of my life, thirty just kidding thirty years.
Speaker 2: Can I say, because I during my single period last time,
Speaker 2: I felt like I got really good at being single.
Speaker 1: Do you feel lonely ever?
Speaker 2: I felt lonely a lot of times, but I still
Speaker 2: pushed through and made myself do things alone because I
Speaker 2: wasn't going to miss out on activities and memories because
Speaker 2: I didn't have somebody. And I felt that my relationship
Speaker 2: came into my life when I was fully secure in
Speaker 2: being alone, and throughout my relationship, I still did things
Speaker 2: alone and never allowed myself to become codependent. Now maybe
Speaker 2: that was a problem, maybe it wasn't. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but that's who I was and am still. But I
Speaker 2: want to ask you because some of the things I
Speaker 2: did when I was single was like I went traveled
Speaker 2: overseas by myself, went to the movies by myself. I
Speaker 2: just did. The last Sunday, I went to a restaurant,
Speaker 2: sat outside at the table by myself, had my lunch,
Speaker 2: had my coffee, did not look at my cell phone,
Speaker 2: did not bring a book, fully sat there in the
Speaker 2: sun around mind you, this was a crowded restaurant, people
Speaker 2: all around me. So I want to know, when's the
Speaker 2: last time you did any of those things, Cheryl.
Speaker 1: I always, I mean the ballroom dancer in me right, So,
Speaker 1: like I traveled the world alone all the time. But
Speaker 1: so that's just like was that for work or for pleasure? No?
Speaker 1: For pleasure? I was dating someone in England?
Speaker 2: Okay, but no, no, no, so you were dating somebody.
Speaker 1: So also now I won't travel around the world because
Speaker 1: of my dog. They don't let the dogs go internationally, Okay,
Speaker 1: But yes, I always, I mean I don't always cause
Speaker 1: I don't always leave. But yeah, I have no fear
Speaker 1: with I just don't like the movies. I think it's
Speaker 1: a dirty place and I just can't sit still. And
Speaker 1: I have no interest in watching a movie elsewhere when
Speaker 1: I can watch it here if I wanted to. But
Speaker 1: I'd rather watch the O. J. Simpson docu series at
Speaker 1: this moment. Any who. But as far as restaurants go, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I have no fear with that. Like that
Speaker 1: is okay for me. But I don't know if I
Speaker 1: could do the whole no phone thing. It's part of it,
Speaker 1: it's part of it, and it's intentional, that's very intentional.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess I could. I mean, I could
Speaker 1: definitely keep I mean people watching. It's a thing, you know.
Speaker 2: I will say I fully was invested in the people
Speaker 2: sitting next to me in their conversation that they were
Speaker 2: having having. I mean, I couldn't help the guy was
Speaker 2: getting next to me and talking. So when you're not
Speaker 2: looking at your phone, I just I just listened.
Speaker 1: And did people come up to you? Did like any
Speaker 1: high dudes?
Speaker 2: No, No, nobody came up to me. But I'm just
Speaker 2: saying that for anybody listening, those are some small kinds
Speaker 2: of challenges that you can do for yourself while you're
Speaker 2: in this. Before this, I do Part two era, because
Speaker 2: you don't know what's going to happen if you don't
Speaker 2: put yourself out there. And I know Cheryl doesn't like
Speaker 2: going to the movies by herself.
Speaker 1: I don't like to go to the movies period, even
Speaker 1: with somebody, sure, But going.
Speaker 2: To the movies alone is I think one of the
Speaker 2: easiest entry points to doing things alone because it is
Speaker 2: a dark theater, it is quiet. Nobody is going to notice.
Speaker 1: And nobody's going to be there. No one goes to
Speaker 1: the movies, but you're in my sister.
Speaker 2: Some people go to the movie, Cheryl. But I'm just
Speaker 2: saying that's an easy way to start, because some people
Speaker 2: are like, go to a restaurant alone that is way
Speaker 2: too daunting, you know what I mean? Andy, By the way,
Speaker 2: do everything in safety first, So don't go to environments
Speaker 2: that make you feel uncomfortable, or at night, or drinking
Speaker 2: alcohol alone.
Speaker 1: Working underground garages.
Speaker 2: Don't put yourself I'm not saying put yourself in uncomfortable
Speaker 2: situations where your safety is jeopardized, but I think that's
Speaker 2: part of you know, doing this whole experience of your
Speaker 2: next chapter in life is putting yourself into situations where
Speaker 2: you are alone. I will say I traveled to Greece
Speaker 2: by myself and it was I've also traveled to Paris
Speaker 2: by myself, but I will say Greece was a really
Speaker 2: exciting trip for me because it was inexpensive, it was warm,
Speaker 2: and the people were incredibly friendly. So nobody asked me
Speaker 2: where is my husband? Where is my boyfriend? It was
Speaker 2: all about being by myself having this experience. I will
Speaker 2: say it was difficult to take pictures of myself on vacation.
Speaker 2: That was fun. But I really do encourage everybody to
Speaker 2: have some sort of eat, prey love experience, you know,
Speaker 2: post break up, post divorce, whatever it might be, because
Speaker 2: you do get a sense of that the world is
Speaker 2: so big that maybe your problems are your problems, but
Speaker 2: there's so much more out there to experience in life.
Speaker 2: And I just encourage anybody that maybe is going through
Speaker 2: that too. I started with a small weekend trip honestly
Speaker 2: before I went overseas. So I went from Los Angeles
Speaker 2: to Big Sir one weekend. I went on Valentine's Day once.
Speaker 1: I love Big Sir. I also think you should do
Speaker 1: all of this when you're in relationships. I don't think
Speaker 1: it's just about post anything right prior to anything. It's
Speaker 1: like because it just reminds you that you are loved
Speaker 1: by yourself, Like this is part of self care. And
Speaker 1: I just remember in my past relationships, not just this
Speaker 1: last one. Sorry, I have to, like you make it clear.
Speaker 1: I remember that those moments of like, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: you do your thing. I do my thing. There was
Speaker 1: a lot of insecurity there, like a lot of like
Speaker 1: what ifs, what ifs, what ifs, what ifs they're gonna
Speaker 1: do whatever they're gonna do with with you being like
Speaker 1: in a relationship with you or without you, like there's
Speaker 1: no control over that. But this is this if you
Speaker 1: really want to ask, like why are you so single?
Speaker 1: Because there's so much of the patterns that I want
Speaker 1: to change, first and foremost for myself that I don't
Speaker 1: want to be feeling or like not believing the thoughts
Speaker 1: in my head that start to get worried that someone's
Speaker 1: gonna cheat, someone's going to do this, someone's gonna lie.
Speaker 1: And there's always that like that fear instilled in my
Speaker 1: identity because of you know, my first memory with seeing
Speaker 1: my father with another woman, like at two, and like
Speaker 1: there's just all of that like and regardless, like I'm
Speaker 1: not blame. It is what it is as my past
Speaker 1: and I've moved forward. But in order for me to
Speaker 1: move forward, I need to first of all put that
Speaker 1: to rest, like all those feelings of insecurity and jealousy
Speaker 1: and all of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is what's so great about you
Speaker 2: should is that you are doing the work and you
Speaker 2: know what your lines are. And I think that that's great.
Speaker 2: We touched on it just a second ago, but I
Speaker 2: do want to talk about it is Valentine's Day this week?
Speaker 2: How do you feel about Valentine's Day? Did you have
Speaker 2: thoughts about Valentine's Day when you were in a relationship
Speaker 2: versus what you have now, Like what do you think
Speaker 2: about it?
Speaker 1: I have no thoughts about it, except but when I
Speaker 1: was in a relationship, the amount of pressure it was
Speaker 1: always like we have to go on a trip. You
Speaker 1: have to get me, like you're gonna get me a
Speaker 1: bunch of roses, right, Like, and if you're with somebody,
Speaker 1: mind you, I've been in other relationships. And if you
Speaker 1: are with somebody who may not be so good at
Speaker 1: planning ahead or like always comes up with a oh,
Speaker 1: I just haven't had the time. It's like it's just
Speaker 1: a Debbie downer because the expectations. You see all these
Speaker 1: instagram like rose pedals, like going from a mile away
Speaker 1: to their you know whatever, wherever they're staying anyway, they's sanctuary.
Speaker 1: It's like so mantic and picture perfect. And then you're like, great,
Speaker 1: I got twelve, I got a dozen roses? Great, right,
Speaker 1: And it's just like it's just it's the for me
Speaker 1: because of my expectations. Now, if I were a Yogi
Speaker 1: and I had no expectations, then man, would it be amazing.
Speaker 1: It'd probably be amazing.
Speaker 2: I mean, I hear that. I think that social media
Speaker 2: has really turned the dial on so many people and
Speaker 2: how we view our relationships through this faith. But I
Speaker 2: want to know, what do you think somebody should be
Speaker 2: doing this Valentine's Day that is single, Like should I
Speaker 2: don't know, should they have a journaling session? Should they
Speaker 2: be having not? They don't want to do the ins
Speaker 2: like writing stuff down and.
Speaker 1: Burning it, like you should be doing that tonight. There's
Speaker 1: a full moon, so love it.
Speaker 2: Love it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you should be doing that tonight. Okay there,
Speaker 1: But as far as I think honestly, when you give
Speaker 1: anything so much energy right, like it's just I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe you do want to do something, maybe when do gallantines?
Speaker 1: Like for me, I have a little sweater that I
Speaker 1: was gifted from pr says Isabella on it. It's pink
Speaker 1: and it has a heart. That's what I'm doing to celebrate.
Speaker 1: And I'll be probably in this room maybe shooting content
Speaker 1: on a how to do Valentine's Day makeup? Like I
Speaker 1: don't freaking know, I don't know, you know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: I'm probably working. Most likely I don't have my calendar
Speaker 1: in front of me. It's just another day. And another dollar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and listen, I think anybody who maybe this is
Speaker 2: their first Valentine's Day post split.
Speaker 1: Stop looking on social media. Then don't even do it.
Speaker 2: Agree, don't open the app.
Speaker 1: And if you do it, realize that it's not picture perfect.
Speaker 1: They're probably fighting right now as you're looking at their posts. Okay,
Speaker 1: they're probably literally like that's not enough rose petals? How
Speaker 1: dare you? It wasn't white enough, those white roses like
Speaker 1: stuff like that, Like you don't want you should just
Speaker 1: be counting your blessings you're single, or.
Speaker 2: Take a page out of Cheryl's book and maybe like
Speaker 2: order something for yourself to be delivered.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just go shop. I do it every day. Every
Speaker 1: day is Valentine's Day.
Speaker 2: Buy yourself the flowers, or have some ice cream delivered.
Speaker 1: You can get in person delivered too, Supposedly, who knows.
Speaker 2: I said to myself, I need some cute jammies. So
Speaker 2: I just ordered jammys, ordered some new slippers.
Speaker 1: There's some great sales right now, you guys. Go on
Speaker 1: my shop LTK for more info.
Speaker 2: I love that Cheryl. Cheryl's a hustler.
Speaker 1: I just had to plug that in.
Speaker 2: No, I love it.
Speaker 1: How about this just hug yourself like that. You don't
Speaker 1: understand it. That's powerful. It is a powerful thing. You
Speaker 1: know you hug you hug you. Hugging yourself is really
Speaker 1: like all you need. I'm joking, I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: be corny, but that's the easiest thing. And then also
Speaker 1: in the mirror when you're brushing your teeth, you need
Speaker 1: to say how much you love yourself, like I you
Speaker 1: know what? You know what? Don't even say I love you.
Speaker 1: You need to do what mel Robbins does and she
Speaker 1: does this. She gives herself literally like this a high
Speaker 1: five and it just gets her to laugh. And I
Speaker 1: did that straight for like six months. It really changed
Speaker 1: my day.
Speaker 2: Before me go, Cheryl is just because we are in
Speaker 2: the Valentine's Day zone?
Speaker 1: Do you have any forcing this down my throat or.
Speaker 2: Have any funny Valentine's Day stories from It's not necessarily funny.
Speaker 1: It's more like why why, Like it's almost like I
Speaker 1: was always the type and I'm speaking past tense where
Speaker 1: I would be in a relationship and it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: clearly he's not gonna do it for me, so I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do it. And then it look like that he
Speaker 1: did it for me like I so I was like
Speaker 1: the person who micromanaged, right, like the.
Speaker 2: The Instagram girlfriends.
Speaker 1: I planned the cancuon trips, I planned the you know,
Speaker 1: it's Valentine's Day. And then it was like it's always
Speaker 1: something day to celebrate, and it was always like, you know,
Speaker 1: free trips because when you're in a relationship and you
Speaker 1: know you have a following, they offer free sandals, Saint Lucia.
Speaker 1: It's like it's always And then like, guess who does
Speaker 1: all the booking? Like I might as well be a
Speaker 1: travel agent, you know, in just organizing everything. And then
Speaker 1: you're like, wait a second, this is supposed to be
Speaker 1: celebrated together, like this day is not just about right,
Speaker 1: and then resentment built. It's a whole thing. You guys
Speaker 1: and I don't think when we scroll through Instagram, though
Speaker 1: our lazy brain is active. Right when we're doing this,
Speaker 1: just remind yourself that this is probably what's happening in
Speaker 1: that relationship. Romantic it looks beautiful, it's not reality, no,
Speaker 1: because it's really I mean, just remember all those doubt,
Speaker 1: those times where you were just like like really like
Speaker 1: you just didn't feel loved you didn't feel seen, you
Speaker 1: didn't feel heard, and you know what, you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to do that for yourself or learn how to, because
Speaker 1: then you'll never need it from anybody, And then that's
Speaker 1: when you're superhero soul mate. There's no such thing comes
Speaker 1: into your life.
Speaker 2: You know, this kind of felt like a mini therapy session, Cheryl,
Speaker 2: So they did there.
Speaker 1: You know what, thanks for joining me. This was it
Speaker 1: went by so fast, like and I really believe I
Speaker 1: know it was about me, but it's not. It's about
Speaker 1: anybody who wants to talk about their story. So thank you.
Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of people are going to
Speaker 1: be able to relate to this, and you've helped so many.
Speaker 1: I know that for a fact, including myself. So if
Speaker 1: you're like me or like Heather single navigating life post
Speaker 1: divorce in my case, do you want some advice, call
Speaker 1: us or email us, follow us on socials. All the
Speaker 1: information will be in the show notes. Make sure to
Speaker 1: rate and review the podcast. I Do Part two an
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.
Speaker 1: Maybe