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Speaker 1: This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis. Play talks

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Speaker 1: with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.

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Speaker 1: Now here's Clay Travis. Welcome into the Wins and Losses podcast.

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Speaker 1: Here without kicked the cover gian Clay Travis. Lots of

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Speaker 1: great Wins and Losses podcast in the repository there you

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Speaker 1: can go check them out. Twenty three different ones. I

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Speaker 1: believe we've done so far and we are often rolling

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Speaker 1: here this week with Art Briles, Texas high school football

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Speaker 1: coaching legend, as well as former Baylor football coach. Many

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Speaker 1: of you are gonna be very familiar with him because

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Speaker 1: you are big time college football fans. And we'll start

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Speaker 1: with this coach. You've hardly talked to anybody in the

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Speaker 1: media for several years now. Has it been hard to

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Speaker 1: basically be quiet like you've been quiet? How? First of all?

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Speaker 1: Good born and Clay and yeah, I mean it's uh,

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Speaker 1: it's always hard to you know, kind of let your

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Speaker 1: name get drag around and and everything. But that's just

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm kind of old school, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm sixty four years old and I grew up where

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Speaker 1: you know, my dad and everybody eyes ever around. You know,

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Speaker 1: just taught me how your action speaking loud in your words.

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Speaker 1: So just keep your mouth shut and live the life

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Speaker 1: that you're supposed to live. And people will judge you,

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Speaker 1: that know you, by by what you do, not by

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Speaker 1: what you say. So that's kind of been it. And

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Speaker 1: then you know, it's, uh, once a narrative gets out

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Speaker 1: there in the media, it's it's it's kind of hard

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Speaker 1: to find. So I found out early that everything that

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Speaker 1: I did try to say, which was not much or

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Speaker 1: you know, somebody was saying for me, I just got,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of taken and twisted to where it

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Speaker 1: was not it was not a positive for me. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm doing good and uh, you know, every

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Speaker 1: everybody you know, it seems to be kind of getting

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Speaker 1: back on their face, so that that's a good thing,

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Speaker 1: all right. So I want to dive into Baylor and

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Speaker 1: everything there, but I want to start with your coaching career.

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Speaker 1: You were long before you moved into college coaching, and

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Speaker 1: I believe your first job in college coaching didn't come

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Speaker 1: until two thousand, but by that time you've been coaching

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Speaker 1: for twenty years in Texas high school football. When did

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Speaker 1: you know that you wanted to be a football coach.

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Speaker 1: Was this something you knew when you were eighteen nineteen

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Speaker 1: years old? Was a younger? How did you come to Basically,

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Speaker 1: I think starting in nineteen seventy nine moved into football.

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Speaker 1: You know. My dad was was a coach, and he

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Speaker 1: actually didn't start as a coach. He joined the Navy

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Speaker 1: out of high school and then went, you know, and

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Speaker 1: served for four years. And back then you'd served in

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Speaker 1: dud Gil. Back in the Navy paid for your college

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Speaker 1: and you know, so he did that and he went

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Speaker 1: out to West Texas A and M at the time

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Speaker 1: or West Texas State out in Canyon, Texas. And then

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Speaker 1: he really didn't He was just a school teacher. And

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Speaker 1: my mother wasn't uh, you know, she was just um,

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Speaker 1: you know what do you call him now? Today? I

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Speaker 1: want to make sure you right terms she stayed home mom.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, yeah, so I had a brother, and you know,

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Speaker 1: first my dad was just you know, teaching school, and

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Speaker 1: then he started coaching junior high. Then he got he

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Speaker 1: got the head a high school job at Rule Texas

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Speaker 1: r U l E. Which is a little town out

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Speaker 1: in West Texas. And I moved there when I was

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Speaker 1: a freshman high school, and I just it's just kind

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Speaker 1: of all I've ever been around, you know. And then

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Speaker 1: I got into college. I went down to Mercy Houston,

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Speaker 1: and you know, played for coach Holman, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, I really wasn't sure what I was gonna do.

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Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to be a you know, like

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Speaker 1: an FBI agent or something. I always kind of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, studying things and trying to figure out why

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Speaker 1: people do what they do. But um, you know, I

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Speaker 1: found out quickly the way to get out of schools

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Speaker 1: just you know, get my education degree. And so I

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Speaker 1: just started coach and started coaching nineteen seventy nine, a

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Speaker 1: little town out in West Texas, Sundown, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I was actually in high school for twenty one years.

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Speaker 1: I was sixteen years as a head coach, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we got the job out there. Just take in two thousand,

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Speaker 1: al right. So when you're coaching in high school football,

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Speaker 1: at what point did you start to develop the offensive

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Speaker 1: system that you would eventually bring into college football at Baylor.

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Speaker 1: And what was it brought out of? Was it necessity

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Speaker 1: where you said, man, I don't have some of the

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Speaker 1: same talent that some of these other schools have, but

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Speaker 1: maybe I can exploit them by running this new system.

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Speaker 1: How did you sort of tinker and work your way

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Speaker 1: into the offensive system that you ended up running at Baylor.

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Speaker 1: That's a really good question, Clay. I can tell you've

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Speaker 1: talked a lot of football guys, but you know, everything

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Speaker 1: comes out of necessity. And actually it started. You know,

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Speaker 1: I got my first head job in nineteen eighty four. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know in Hamlin, Texas. Another how long if you

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Speaker 1: remember Johnny ham Jones, you know you just played for

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Speaker 1: you two years ago. Oh yeah, but you know so anyway,

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Speaker 1: that's that's where later my first head job, we really

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Speaker 1: had good kids, you know, it was it was just

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Speaker 1: a great school about a third and it third wide,

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Speaker 1: third African American, and you know, we could we could

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Speaker 1: kind of get after people, and it was just a

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Speaker 1: good mixture of people that were tough guys that could

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Speaker 1: run a little bit. So you know, we went twenty

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Speaker 1: seven one and one in two years. But my second

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Speaker 1: year there, um, you know, we got deep in the

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Speaker 1: playoffs and and I started seeing that that once we

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Speaker 1: got deeper in like my quarterfinals, semifinals, state state championship,

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Speaker 1: that other other people had good talent also, so in

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Speaker 1: eighty and eighty three or eighty four, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty vanilla, you know, split back there because I

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Speaker 1: was a big guy coming from Houston, and then in

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Speaker 1: five switched to uh, you know Novak, you know, and

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Speaker 1: and run a little one back for wides and and

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Speaker 1: did a little, you know, a little on pass option

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Speaker 1: stuff back then. So it was it was basically out

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Speaker 1: necessity end up, you know, going uh, I guess fourteen

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Speaker 1: one our last year, but um, you know we got

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Speaker 1: beat by team that had people, but it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: is that a necessity? And then we just kind of

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Speaker 1: evolved through the years. I mean I actually took a

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Speaker 1: job a couple of years after that in George, South Texas,

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Speaker 1: which is around Austin, and we we were very with

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Speaker 1: a smaller school in the nineteen districts Austin west Lake,

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Speaker 1: you know where Drew Brees is from the make Pose

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Speaker 1: and you know some of those people, Baker Mayfield, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're in a we're in a district with them. Actually,

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Speaker 1: how Mummy was the head coach that covered COVID's time

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Speaker 1: the same same district, and we were less talented. So there,

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Speaker 1: you know, I put in some different formations and stuff

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Speaker 1: to kind of slow the game down because back then

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Speaker 1: they didn't have the forty second clock to know, the

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Speaker 1: refereen sets the ball, then he bring his arm. Man,

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Speaker 1: you got twenty five seconds to actually milk the game,

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Speaker 1: you know a little bit. So we we slowed it

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Speaker 1: down and tried to play you know, kind of a

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Speaker 1: middle football three and a half four yards to carry

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Speaker 1: and and the shortened the game and try to win

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Speaker 1: you know, seventeen tens. So everything you do is it's

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Speaker 1: you know at a necessed in. That's we got into

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Speaker 1: to college. You know, we just involved from there because

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Speaker 1: we got better players and we're able to do a

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Speaker 1: few more things with the skilled athlete. Stephenville, I believe

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about that with you. Um. I

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Speaker 1: think you won four Texas state high school championships there

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Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, in four A, which is a

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Speaker 1: pretty high level. Um, what started to go perfectly well

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Speaker 1: for you as you're kind of in the laboratory of

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Speaker 1: football that led you to having so much success that

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Speaker 1: gave you an opportunity to move in. I did some

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Speaker 1: research on this because I was kind of curious, Uh,

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Speaker 1: your ninety eight team. I think you posted over eight

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Speaker 1: thousand yards of offense. Is that a missprinter or was

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Speaker 1: that real? That was Actually it was the most offensive

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Speaker 1: yards in the in the history of high school football

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Speaker 1: time nationally. So that eight thousand, six hundred and fifty.

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Speaker 1: I mean, who was on that team? Oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: we had we had two kids went to Smu my quarterback,

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Speaker 1: gun out on Luca and then Cody Card was a

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Speaker 1: little re singer. It was about you know, he's about

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Speaker 1: five nine a hundred and sixty, but you know, he

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Speaker 1: could fly. You know, he's really a dynamic. Both those

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Speaker 1: guys went there and and Luca. Luca could throw the

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Speaker 1: ball pretty good. But we just you know, we had

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Speaker 1: a lot of other guys to go with it with.

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Speaker 1: We've actually won quite a bit up until that time,

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Speaker 1: you know, like in ninety three and ninety four were

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Speaker 1: we're thirty two and oh so we had a really

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Speaker 1: dominant players then, and we just had a great run

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Speaker 1: of quarterbacks. You know, I had a tenure run there

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Speaker 1: or we really had good players. Actually when I took

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Speaker 1: the job in nineteen, um, you know, they hadn't won

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Speaker 1: a district championship in twenty seven years. And so it

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Speaker 1: had been a place that was down, but it was

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Speaker 1: a community school just about fifty five miles south of

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Speaker 1: Fort Worth. So you know, I knew we could get

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Speaker 1: some people in there, and uh those guys would would

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Speaker 1: you know? It's all they had, all they had Steamlle

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Speaker 1: High School. They couldn't go to the mall, they couldn't

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Speaker 1: go to the movie theater. You know, they had to

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Speaker 1: stay in there and we had to work. So we

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Speaker 1: worked them good, and we got a little tradition going

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Speaker 1: and we spent some really good players come out of there.

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Speaker 1: Some guys you know that uh um, pretty good in NFL.

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Speaker 1: A couple of them, you know. So it's it's been good.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to catch live editions about kick the Coverage

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Speaker 1: with Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern, three

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Speaker 1: am Pacific. We're talking to our briles as the Winds

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Speaker 1: and Lost his podcast. I'm Clay Travis. So when you're

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Speaker 1: rolling in Texas high school football, we got people listening

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Speaker 1: to this all over the country, and they may know

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Speaker 1: Texas high school football from Friday Night Lights. They may

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Speaker 1: know kind of the rumor and reputation of it. How

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Speaker 1: big is high school football in Texas. For people who

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Speaker 1: aren't from Texas and are listening to us right now,

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Speaker 1: what is it on the social scene for the state

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Speaker 1: of Texas. You know, it's it's just fun football, clay,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's that's the thing that

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Speaker 1: I always liked about it, and that's really why I'm

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Speaker 1: back in and now you know, it's just it's a good,

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Speaker 1: good ball and and he gives the all these people, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of something to talk about and hang

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Speaker 1: their head. Only gives you know, guys and girls, you know,

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Speaker 1: it gives them uh meaning you know, because you've got

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Speaker 1: the cheerleaders, you got the man, You've got the pep squad,

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Speaker 1: drill team, you know all that. So it just involves

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Speaker 1: so many people and it's just it's uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it carries the flag for the community, especially when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about the like you mention steam Mills four A

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Speaker 1: would be a five A in today's alignment. But you know,

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Speaker 1: you get the community schools based around the state of Texas.

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Speaker 1: It's that way. Then when you get into the cities

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Speaker 1: you know, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, uh, kind of the

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Speaker 1: Austin area. You know, there's still pockets of of schools

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Speaker 1: there that have been strong for years. I mentioned west Lake,

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Speaker 1: You've got Katie, You've got Duncanville and Dallas De Soto.

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Speaker 1: You know. Then you know, they're just all over the state,

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Speaker 1: really good, strong programs that have had a lot of

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Speaker 1: tradition for a lot of years. And and these people

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Speaker 1: stay there, grow up there, live there, and so it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a generational thing and they just uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it just means everything to them. And the the word

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Speaker 1: you used early in the podcast when you were saying

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Speaker 1: this is our winds and and something show, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's the word I've never used, you know, so you know,

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Speaker 1: when when when that happens, you know, it's just devastating,

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Speaker 1: you know, but it's just it just you know, takes

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Speaker 1: a piece of your soul out. So uh, that's something

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Speaker 1: that I've always felt. And uh, you know that's as

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Speaker 1: it was always my motivating factor for coaching. And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't the WS, it was others, you know, because there's

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Speaker 1: always a way to do better and overcome when you

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Speaker 1: didn't succeed. How long does you say you don't even

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Speaker 1: like to use the word loss, but when you would

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Speaker 1: lose early in your coaching career, a high school football game,

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Speaker 1: how long does it take you to get over it? Oh?

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Speaker 1: You still don't? You know, I still got something that

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Speaker 1: hang on me right now today. You know, it's just

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Speaker 1: because it is so devastating. And the thing the difference

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Speaker 1: between high school collegiately and then even in NFL and

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Speaker 1: I would suppose you know, is that in high school,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you you're in those communities, you're in

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Speaker 1: those places when when you don't get a victory, then

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Speaker 1: you're seeing those people. You know, on Saturday, your settlement church,

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Speaker 1: on Sunday, you know, everywhere you go through the week,

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Speaker 1: you're seeing all those people that stands. Collegiately, you know,

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Speaker 1: those people come in, they drive in, they bring to

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Speaker 1: our bays, they fly in, then they leave, you know,

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Speaker 1: because not everybody lives in way Hill, Texas, or Houston,

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Speaker 1: Texas or love With Texas. You know, so they come

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Speaker 1: and go and then they go back to their whatever

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Speaker 1: they do, and they may I'll be back for two

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Speaker 1: or three weeks, depending on home and wage schedule. And

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Speaker 1: the NFL is the same way. I mean, you've got

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Speaker 1: people that you know, live in Ardenton, Texas that love

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Speaker 1: Green Bay. You know, so it's stuff. But I mean

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Speaker 1: when you're in when you're in high school ball, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's it's only you know, and you see those

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Speaker 1: people and you're responsible to them day in and day out.

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Speaker 1: How many people would show up for your high school

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Speaker 1: football games? You know, at the when we were at

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Speaker 1: Stephenville and in the state championship games, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think probably the biggest crowd we had was I think

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Speaker 1: it was nine. We had a we had a double

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Speaker 1: header in the Astrodome, believe it or not, that's when

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Speaker 1: the dome was still alive, um and we played a

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Speaker 1: team called Port Nature's Groves and then there was another

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Speaker 1: game that backed us up. So it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: dual crowd. But I think there was about thirty three,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe thirty five thousand there um at that game.

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Speaker 1: And you know that when you get deep in the playoffs,

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Speaker 1: you always had really really good crowds, you know, So

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Speaker 1: that's that's it's really exciting. And the thing about it

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Speaker 1: is there completely split crowds. You know, you got a

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Speaker 1: home and you really have a vistarch work collegiately. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's when you're at home, you're really at home. But

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Speaker 1: when you get in these playoffs games, it's it's split

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Speaker 1: right down the middle. How hard was it for you

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Speaker 1: to leave high school football to go coach in college?

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Speaker 1: It wasn't hard, you know. I mean when I got

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Speaker 1: into coaching, I just got into coaching coach. You know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really have a master plan or vision or anything,

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Speaker 1: because you know, when I my wife and I, you know,

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Speaker 1: we started dating the nineteen seventy two, got married and

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Speaker 1: seventy eight we went to high school together and I

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Speaker 1: graduated twenty four in my class and I think she

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Speaker 1: had twenty five and hers. So you know, we were

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Speaker 1: just just happy, being happy, you know, just wanting to

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Speaker 1: live and get out and you know, try to try

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Speaker 1: to have a productive life and go from there. And um,

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Speaker 1: you know, when getting out of high school, you know

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Speaker 1: I really kind of felt like believe or not as

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Speaker 1: crazy as it sounds, you know, we'd won four state

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Speaker 1: championships in a six year period, and I kind of

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Speaker 1: felt like we've crossed all bridges with the cross you know,

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Speaker 1: and and it kind of got to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: as as crazy as it sounds, kind of whole hum

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Speaker 1: for the community there, and you know, they had a bond.

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Speaker 1: They didn't build a new high school. I felt like

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Speaker 1: if they had built a new high school that that

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Speaker 1: town would have really flourished, you know, because its location.

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Speaker 1: But they built a new middle school instead, and that's

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not my decision. That school board decisions.

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Speaker 1: So they did what they did, and and I just

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Speaker 1: had the chance to go to the Texas Tech. You know,

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Speaker 1: I knew the I knew some people there because actually

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Speaker 1: my wife and I ended up graduating from there. I

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Speaker 1: stayed three years at Houston three and a half and

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Speaker 1: I went to Texas Tech and finished up when I

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Speaker 1: quit playing football, So you know, we knew some folks

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Speaker 1: out there. Uh, they needed a Texas guy on the

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Speaker 1: staff because from Leach came in, you know, he brought

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Speaker 1: all these people from around the nation, but they weren't

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Speaker 1: Texas guys. So they needed a Texas coach in there

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Speaker 1: that people could relate to, you know, that could help

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Speaker 1: give them a good recruiting base to start with. It

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Speaker 1: new the state of Texas because I knew it at

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Speaker 1: the time. I'd actually you know, been elected you know,

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Speaker 1: the high the president of Texas High School Coach Association.

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Speaker 1: So I had good connections all across state. And that's

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Speaker 1: that's really why I got the job there. So what's

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Speaker 1: it like? We had Mike Leach on the podcast already

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people who are listening to us

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Speaker 1: right now, No, Mike Leach. What was working with Mike

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Speaker 1: Leach alike? It was interesting, you know, say that he's

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Speaker 1: a good way to start. No, I mean he Mike's.

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Speaker 1: Mike's a great football coach. He's I respect him a

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Speaker 1: lot because he he really loves the game of football,

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Speaker 1: just like I do, you know, And that's that's that's

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Speaker 1: the people that I respect. Just like your intelligent questions

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Speaker 1: want to go. I can tell that that you've been

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Speaker 1: around the game. You know the games, you discussed the

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Speaker 1: game with many people. You know, so people that know

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Speaker 1: the game, love the game and understand the game. I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of respect called Mike's Mike's that way,

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Speaker 1: we're completely you know, polar opposites on um you know,

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Speaker 1: personalities and and you know they lives. But that's that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything. I mean Mike, Mike is a technician,

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Speaker 1: you know, football coach. He demands a lot of his

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Speaker 1: players and his coaches. He's a he's a great guy.

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Speaker 1: To coach for because you know, he's not overbearing, he's

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Speaker 1: not a micro manager, but he's uh, you know, what

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Speaker 1: he wants done, he gets done. And he's been you

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Speaker 1: know effective everybody's been and so he's you know, he's

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Speaker 1: he's had a good career and I'm happy for him.

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Speaker 1: You brought in west Welker. That's a guy that a

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Speaker 1: lot of people might not have brought in. What did

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Speaker 1: you see in him that made you think this guy

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Speaker 1: can be successful at a college level? It was it

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Speaker 1: was just, you know, fortunately I had Oklahoma at the time,

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Speaker 1: so I recruited you know, uh spots of Texas and

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Speaker 1: I had you know, two or three spots in Oklahoma, Tulsa,

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma City, and uh, you know, that was about it.

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Speaker 1: And Tommy McVeigh, who was the football obscut at TEG,

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Speaker 1: brought in his tank and said, hey, you know, because

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Speaker 1: Tommy coached up there something sometimes his career, said I

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Speaker 1: want you to watch this guy on tape, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I said where is he? And he said, what

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Speaker 1: is it? Paratage all the little private school in Oklahoma City.

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, okay, you know, So he brings it

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Speaker 1: in and there's this guy in there. That's you know

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Speaker 1: what walk welcos about five nine and a halfs at

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Speaker 1: that time, probably way the seventy three or four. He

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Speaker 1: played quarterback, he played running back. He played he said

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Speaker 1: to kick the ball, He punted the ball and did

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Speaker 1: all the place kicking. He returned punts and return king

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Speaker 1: because he never came out of the field every time

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Speaker 1: he touched the ball. He was dynamic with football. When

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Speaker 1: he was on defense, he was by far the best

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Speaker 1: player on the field, A very tough, just dynamic player.

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Speaker 1: And and I just said that, you know, this guy

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Speaker 1: is a no brainer. And you know, I said, what's

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Speaker 1: he've done? What's what's he got? And they said, well

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Speaker 1: he got Tulsa. And I said, and I said, what

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Speaker 1: was he run? You know? And they said, well, I

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Speaker 1: think you know he's been time probably you know low

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Speaker 1: low four seven, maybe had four six, you know, something

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Speaker 1: along those were that range. And I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: we gotta take this guy. And so we talked about it.

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Speaker 1: And then actually when sign of day comes along, we

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Speaker 1: we have not offered and signed that comes along because

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Speaker 1: we want to sing in person. He didn't sign and

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Speaker 1: came invested a week later, got on campus, and and

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Speaker 1: everybody got to meet him. It was you know, if

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Speaker 1: you ever been around West or no West. He came

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Speaker 1: in as a running back. I was coaching running backs

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Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I want this guy. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: We had great running backs, you know, we had Child Williams.

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Speaker 1: Dad Obama had Ricky Williams. It was a great running

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Speaker 1: back there. And then West came in and and I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you West, if he would have stated running back,

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Speaker 1: he'd be you know, running, he would have been a

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Speaker 1: running back in the league. Also. I mean, that's that's

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Speaker 1: how good he is. We stamped on campus. He was

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Speaker 1: an automatic, no brainer because he's from zero yards to

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Speaker 1: four yards with his feed and his his maneuverability is

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Speaker 1: as good as anybody I've been around, and I've been

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Speaker 1: around some really good ones. Fox Sports Radio has the

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Speaker 1: best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of

398
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 1: our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within

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Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app search f s R to

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Speaker 1: listen live. We're talking to our briles. Uh this the

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Speaker 1: Wins and Lost his podcast. I'm Clay Travis. Uh So

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Speaker 1: you get there. We are all right. So you're at

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Speaker 1: with Mike Leach at Texas Tech you recruit, then you

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Speaker 1: get an opportunity to go to Houston. What was the

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Speaker 1: interview process like and how exciting was it to get

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Speaker 1: a job at a place where you had played wide receiver? Well,

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Speaker 1: it was just, um, it was really good. That The

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Speaker 1: good thing about it. The bad thing about it is

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Speaker 1: that nobody wanted the job. You know, a you have

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Speaker 1: h at that time. That was in two thousand and two.

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Speaker 1: I think they were coming off like six losing seasons

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Speaker 1: in a row, and they their attendants at that time

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Speaker 1: was probably eighteen thousand a game on a good game.

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Speaker 1: So it's just a job. Really nobody wanted there in conference?

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Speaker 1: Who say at that time in conference, who say you

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Speaker 1: had TCU, South Florida, had Louisville, Cincinnati, I mean you

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Speaker 1: a b you know, had had some people that could

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Speaker 1: play along with Tulsa and Smum and two lane and

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Speaker 1: all those folks. Rice at the time was pretty good.

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Speaker 1: So it was just, uh, there's a job nobody wanted.

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Speaker 1: They offered probably to you know, three or four people.

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Speaker 1: And then he got down me and this other guy

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Speaker 1: that played a good age and and I went down

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Speaker 1: there and interviewed, and it's I've always told players all

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Speaker 1: my life. You know, you never get a second chance

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Speaker 1: to make the first impression. You know what my idea

427
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 1: was in nineteen seventy four when I went there. If

428
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 1: I'd have been a you know, a turd and been

429
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 1: a bad guy and caused trouble and you know, got

430
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 1: in trouble and done all that, and all those people

431
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,880
Speaker 1: that were around, then all of a sudden, they're making

432
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 1: decisions in two thousand two, you know, so they wouldn't

433
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 1: even talk to me. They looked at me. So it

434
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,159
Speaker 1: was good that coach Oleman was still in the process.

435
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 1: A couple of other boosters you know that had been

436
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 1: there when I was around run the process and like

437
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 1: I said, the interview went well. I got in there

438
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 1: and I was probably I don't think probably. I'm pretty

439
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 1: sure I was one of the you know, lower probably

440
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: top bottom five paid coaches in America at that time,

441
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 1: you know, for a Division one head coach. But I

442
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: didn't care. You know, all I wanted was a chance

443
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: because after being in the in the game three years

444
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 1: at TAG and seeing it, watching how college worked, I

445
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: could tell that, you know, what we did at Steudentville

446
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: High School from a formason scheme and at philosophical standpoint,

447
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: we transferred into the collegiate level, and so I was

448
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,719
Speaker 1: excited to give opportunities to some coaches that I've been

449
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 1: around for you know, some of them at that table

450
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 1: more to come and coach at the cleegiate level. So

451
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: I brought you know, three or four or five guys

452
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: that were on my staff at Stephenville up there, and

453
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 1: you know, actually when of them the head coach at

454
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: Tausson l Philip Montgomery, you know Rand Clemens as a

455
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: line coach at at Old Men's right now, and you

456
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 1: know some other guys. So it's it was fun to

457
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: come help him and you know, have a chance to

458
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 1: start there in the end of the thing that propelled us,

459
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: you know, when I was there, I mean, we we

460
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 1: signed Kevin Cobb, who was the high school quarterback at Stephenville.

461
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: You know, I've actually been coaching mu was committed to

462
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: okcoma state, but Montgomery was still there and when I left,

463
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: he was just a punishment. So he you know, he

464
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: played a little bit in some playoffs games, but that

465
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: was it. And so it gave us a chance to

466
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: have instant credibility and winning bills because he understood our

467
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: offense and we could row from there. So you're there

468
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: five years and then you get the opportunity of Baylor

469
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: and we're talking with our briles here. Um, you go

470
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: into Baylor and I know you said nobody wanted the

471
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 1: job at Houston. I can't imagine there were a lot

472
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: of people sitting around saying, Hey, you know what, I

473
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: really want to go to Baylor and coach football because

474
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: they really had had absolutely no success at all. Obviously

475
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: it's a step up in terms of conference, But was

476
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: that a tough decision to to to leave Houston where

477
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: you've gone to three straight bowl games and bowl games

478
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: and four out of your five years, and decided to

479
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: go to Baylor. Yeah, and and just since we're talking

480
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 1: to play, but actually just for the kids sake, actually

481
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: want to Conference SA championship in two thousand and six,

482
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 1: you know, with Kevin and some of those guys, and

483
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: we we had some really good players had You know,

484
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: the thing about Houston and I get to bat and

485
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: just singing, But the thing about Houston is that it's

486
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: a place where you can recruit because we're it's sitting

487
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: in in my opinion, one of the top two or

488
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: three cities in the nation and you know, with with

489
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: student athletes that can play. So I mean, we we

490
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: get cats there, you know. I mean I had you know,

491
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: while we were there, we had you know, six or

492
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: seven guys that got drafted and played a long time,

493
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: you know, Sebastian, Sebastian Bomber, Donnie Donnie Avery, you know,

494
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: Kevin Cobb. I mentioned Case Kingdom, you know, another guy

495
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: that I recruited out of there that I was the

496
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,479
Speaker 1: only guy to offered cases scholarship coming out of high school.

497
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: You know. So it's just it just goes on and on.

498
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: So we had really really good people and you know,

499
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: ended up getting that thing back on his feet. So

500
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: I felt really proud of that because I loved the

501
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: new versity of Houston and it was nice to help

502
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: get them back. You mentioned doing to Baylor. I mean,

503
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: the thing that kind of drew me. There is a

504
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: couple of things. You know, when I was in recruiting,

505
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: you know, we red recruit these guys and you know,

506
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 1: we might lose one or two to beat each year.

507
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 1: And at that time, Beata was you know, they're going

508
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: to and teen and you know not I don't know,

509
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: three and nine, you know, and and not do anything.

510
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: And we're winning Conference USA championships and we're losing guys,

511
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: you know, to them and Emmanuel Sanders and one of them,

512
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 1: you know, he ended up doing SMU. But you know,

513
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: Beta was in the midst and he was talking to

514
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: them and he was you know, I remember him saying, coach,

515
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 1: I would go to Bator. You know. So I I thought, well,

516
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: you know that's that's Big twelve, you know. So it's

517
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: it's got it's got an appeal of each student athletes,

518
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: you know, even more so than the opportunity to to

519
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: instantly have a chance to win. So that that was

520
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: a big decision for me. Um. You know, I knew

521
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: that I knew the state of Texas. You know, I

522
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: knew Waco, I knew where it was located. I mean,

523
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: it's centrally located. It's three hours two hours and a

524
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,719
Speaker 1: half of you know, it's our and half of Balance,

525
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: it's two and a half, three hours in Houston, it's

526
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: an hour and a half of Austin, and then it's

527
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: in each texas. You know, it's three hours in these

528
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: texas where there are pockets of athletes to these texas

529
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: that nobody knows about unless you know, the state of Texas.

530
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: So I knew we could recruit, and I knew Grandmama

531
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: just want to watch their grandsons quaite football and they

532
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: could drive there and get there. So I thought, yeah,

533
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: you know, if I can you know, get in on it,

534
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: then that that would be a good job. And it's

535
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: another job. Who what they probably offered it to the

536
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: people before they finally got to me, I know, Houston Night.

537
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: It was probably off with the job, and Jim Grove

538
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: at the time was off with the job or you know,

539
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: talk too seriously Mike Singletary, I think could have taken

540
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: the job but decided not to, you know, so they're

541
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: kind of you know, I kind of you know, walked

542
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: in there and and had the opportunity to go and

543
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: once again, uh, you know, it's a job and nobody

544
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: really wanted. But I just knew we could recruit there,

545
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: you know, and I got some some I had on

546
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 1: some really good recruich that we did, you know early

547
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: like r G three. He was committed to me at Houston,

548
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: you know, so he came the beater with me and

549
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 1: Kimball Ryde who uh you know, it was another first

550
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: round take. We got both those of first year in

551
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, so we had a chance to

552
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: get in the good absent folks. I'm gonna get to

553
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: those guys, because I'm curious how you got them. But

554
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: first two years at Baylor you go four and eight,

555
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: four and eight, and you go three and thirteen in

556
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: the in the in the big twelve. Now, I know

557
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: you said you don't like to talk about losses, but

558
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: did you have any self doubt at that point? Because

559
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: you want a lot for Texas state championships. You only

560
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: had one losing record at Houston. I'm sure you weren't

561
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: used to the feeling of going four and eight, and

562
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: certainly you weren't used to the feeling of going three

563
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: and thirteen in conference at the end of two thousand nine,

564
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: where you like, golly, what have I gotten myself into?

565
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: Or were you starting to see the light at the

566
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: end of the tunnel and feel like, hey man, because

567
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: a lot of times you don't get more than two

568
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: years now, Uh, at jobs, you know, if you start

569
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: off two and six, one and seven in conference, sometimes

570
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: it can be tough. When did you start to think, hey,

571
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: maybe we can get this thing turned around. That's that's

572
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: really funny as you mentioned that, Clay, because honestly, I

573
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: couldn't have told you that we were three and thirteen

574
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: because the feeling around there at that time was that

575
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: this is going the right direction. You know, we had momentum.

576
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: We've played Texas Tech when they were eleven and two.

577
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: I think in two thousand and eight, I think they'd

578
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: be this thirty five seven, you know, I maybe thirty

579
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: eight thirty at Tech. You know, we had them down

580
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: with him down fourteen, you know, late in the third

581
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: and and actually they go for fourth down. We picked

582
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: the pass off of every guy outside as they go

583
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: down to score, changed momentum, end up beating US. Um.

584
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: You know, so we we played some some really close

585
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: football games against teams that have been just you know,

586
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: destroying Baylor, and it was you know, and then we

587
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: got beat them too. I mean, I'm not gonna say

588
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: that with some people beat us pretty good, but you know,

589
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: we beat A and M and O eight um and

590
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: and we you know once again in O nine we

591
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: played Tech the four teen to seven I think in

592
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: Nington and we just and and honestly the first year there,

593
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: I mean we beat Oura State and I'm walking across

594
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: the field after game and I get I get the

595
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: ice chest, you know, thrown at me or over and

596
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,239
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, what's going on? You know? And I had

597
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: no idea. And then I heard one of the one

598
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: of the seniors, Jason Smith actually who ended up being

599
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: a second pick over all in the draft as a

600
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: as an old lineman and old nine. He said, Coach,

601
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: we hadn't we hadn't won a conference game in two years,

602
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: you know, So there were there were a couple of

603
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: small milestones that gave us momentum. And it it was good,

604
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I believe it or not. It

605
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: felt good because we knew we had some guys that

606
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: could play. We were recruiting good people, and we knew

607
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: we could could make a little turn. So it wasn't

608
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: a deal to where you know, we felt like I

609
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,959
Speaker 1: felt like, man, what's going on? Because I mean too,

610
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: you know, just to be honest, I had I had

611
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: an opportunity to leave after the Bill nine season and

612
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: go within conference, and um, you know, didn't do it.

613
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: So that's that's how good we felt about it at

614
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: the time. Right there, Where did you have an opportunity

615
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: to go in O nine? Uh? Tech. So Tech was

616
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,959
Speaker 1: trying to hire Yeah, trying to get you away. All right,

617
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: So let's go to let's go to r G three.

618
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: Um guy kids from Texas obviously is gonna put Baylor

619
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: on the map in a big way. Uh, and and

620
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: take your program to a different level. When did you

621
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: first see him play? You said you had him committed

622
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: to Houston and then you brought him with you to Baylor.

623
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: Why did other coaches not seeing him what you did? Uh?

624
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: It's it's funny, you know, because they played in the

625
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,479
Speaker 1: state championship two years ago when he was in high school,

626
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: you know, which is hard to do. They got beat

627
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: both years by Richmond team out of Houston, South Houston.

628
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: Richmond had a little running back to winter in Oregon

629
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: State that was really good. I can't remember his name

630
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: right now, but that's him. Yeah, that's close enough. I'm

631
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: pretty sure that I remember the player. Yeah. No, he

632
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: was really dynamic, you know, and they had a great

633
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: career at Organ State. But the thing I saw in Robert,

634
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: you know, Robert was a track guy. You know, he

635
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: was national best in the highs and their any medias

636
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: and that that's that's just hard to do. I mean,

637
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: and so I knew. I knew he could run when

638
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: I got him at you of age in a summer

639
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: camp and washing through two passes. I mean, I watched

640
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: him throw the ball twice and I told him with

641
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: gum and I said, take him out. I don't let

642
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: him throw anymore. I said, I don't. I don't. I

643
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: don't want anybody else see how good he throws, you know,

644
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: because he got coaches all around there and stuff, because

645
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: I was shocked at how he could throw the football,

646
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: being that athletic. You know, I've been around a lot

647
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: of guys that are very athletic, can run, but but

648
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: the fine motor skills aren't quite as good. I mean,

649
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: Robert was. He was a league now and he could

650
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: he could really deliver the ball. And so when when

651
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: I saw that, I thought, you know, or here we

652
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: got this guy that's a national track athlete and could

653
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: have been an Olympic hurdler if he if he had

654
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: gone his way in the hurdles. But he can throw

655
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: the football. And he graduated seventh out of four hundred

656
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: sixty three. So I mean, let's play, you know. So

657
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: he was he was a phenomenal athlete and person that

658
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: you know, gave us an opportunity to be to be different.

659
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: Now what killed us in O nine is you know,

660
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: of course romboratories A see Elda like the second game

661
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: of the year. So that's that's what happened to No.

662
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: Nine and O eight. We had a we had a

663
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: little bit of a run going. We knew were gonna

664
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: be good. No. Nine. He tethers as they sail. So

665
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: we have to play another true freshman the rest of

666
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: the year in Old nine because the guy was back

667
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: in the Broca got hurt. Black Zamansky, you know when

668
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: he came to the game. So you know, we knew

669
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: we when I got him back in ten, that we

670
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: would have a chance to you know, to make a

671
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: little one there. But he's he's a phenomenal person and

672
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: phenomenal player. And it's and and what happened to him

673
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: in the league, it's what I tried to warn him

674
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: about when he came out. You know, he came out

675
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: of year ordly. Um, what's because he's so he's so

676
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: dug competitive, And I just told him rather, I said, man,

677
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: it's about longevity, and say I said, you just gotta

678
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: stay healthy, because I knew his competitive spirit I knew

679
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: he would play all around and try to, you know,

680
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: make the extra yards in a dynamic fashion. And and

681
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: there's some there's some mean guys on the other side

682
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: of line of screments that are very talented in the league,

683
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, and they're tough and and they can make

684
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: plays on me. So, um, you know, just working and

685
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: you know, coincidentally, you got hurt, you know, and I

686
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: guess and the red Skins the first your second playoffs game,

687
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's a rookie season. Again, what do you

688
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: think you would have been capable of with r G

689
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: three in the NFL if you've been as head coach

690
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: and you've been in charge of him and you've gotten

691
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: to take him to the NFL with Clay that's a

692
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: that's that's a little bit of a loaded question because

693
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: you know, I just I just know what, you know,

694
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: what we're capable of doing there at a place that

695
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: has never been done before, you know, at Baylor. So

696
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: I just think with him as a healthy person and

697
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: with the talent you can put around somebody in the league,

698
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: starting with the old line, you know, and going from

699
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 1: there with all the skill guys, um, and and then

700
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: adding the tempo to that. You know which I would

701
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: do if if I was in the NFL, and I

702
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: would definitely play Temple. I know it's a limited roster,

703
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: I know all that comes into play, but I also

704
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 1: know what it does to the defensive side of the ball.

705
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 1: So with a with an intelligent guy like that at

706
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: quarterback with his mobile, the inability, um, you know, I

707
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: think definitely we could it would You don't want a

708
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: lot of games if you've gotten to coach RG three

709
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: in the NFL, But I think I would like to

710
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 1: believe that. Yes, sir, be sure to catch live editions

711
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: about kicked the coverage with Clay Travis weekdays at six

712
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: am Eastern three am Pacific. Uh. So we're talking to

713
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: our Briwals. I know he doesn't like the word, but

714
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: this is the Winds and Losses podcast, So let's go

715
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 1: into uh to the broader question here. For a long time,

716
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: you heard all that works in high school football, it'll

717
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: never work somewhere else, right, or oh, it works in college,

718
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: but it will never work everywhere else. Seems to me

719
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: what we've moved into now in the world of the

720
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: NFL high school and in colleges. If it works at

721
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: any of those levels. It probably can work anywhere, but

722
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: you probably had to fight through that stereotype of oh

723
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: that might work in Texas high school football, it'll never

724
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: work in college. And I know we talked about this

725
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 1: with Mike Leach. Oh that works in college, it will

726
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: never work in the NFL. Seems to me like if

727
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: it works at any level of football, it can kind

728
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: of work anywhere. Is that where we are in football

729
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 1: right now? I don't think there was any question and that,

730
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: like I told you when I was at Tech, I

731
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: just saw what we were doing at steve Ville. It

732
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: would just it would, you know, really work in college.

733
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: And the way I've always looked at it, Clay, I

734
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: think everything evolves up. I don't think it evolves down.

735
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: I don't think you sit around in high school and

736
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: what's what the NFL is doing because you came emulated,

737
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: you know, or what the competition doing the same thing.

738
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: So high schools they got it. They got a coach

739
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: who walks through the door. So you have to be

740
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: open mindedge. You have to change philosophy. You gotta sit

741
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,919
Speaker 1: set your set your scheme to your people that walk

742
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: through the door. So you changed constantly, which is the

743
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: same thing I've always done, you know, and then I

744
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: think it's evolved up. You know. I remember nineteen ninety four,

745
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 1: the springing night at four after Tennessee signed my quarterback,

746
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: brand It stirred who got signed by the way in

747
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: the same class as Peyton Manning if I remember correctly,

748
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: and and the short story, but that actually, uh, you know,

749
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: Brandon was committed earlier and he signed with them because

750
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: Philiphoner and David David Cutler we're the ones we cring him.

751
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: And then you know, come to Steingville setting setting my kitchen.

752
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: You know, they said you're the guy we're taking. And

753
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: then you know, lo and behold, Payton Manning comes up

754
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 1: the night before signing date and says he's not going,

755
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: old man, He's gonna go to Tennessee. And and they

756
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: called me and said, coach, we gotta take him. And

757
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: you know I understand that. I mean, my gosh, he

758
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: was he was probably number one and ranked in the

759
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: nation at the time. Brandon was I think number two.

760
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: And you know, they they were saying, you know, can

761
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: you talk to Brandon yesterday, I'll talk to him, and

762
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: you know, I was gonna tell Brandon, hey, you know,

763
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: do what you wanna do. But this is gonna be

764
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: a difficult situation for you. I said, if it's equal,

765
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 1: it's gonna be pat I'm gonna tell you that because

766
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: your your dad's name is Red and he builds houses,

767
00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: his dad's are and he's the sec legend. You know.

768
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: So if it's equal, you ain't winning. And you know,

769
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: you know how kids are you now, coach, I'm I'm

770
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: doing I'm competitive about anyway, you know. So he goes

771
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: there and stay Semestrom and leaves and goes day and

772
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: m and actually through and it was a whole time

773
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: in the Big twelve. Brand is the one that won

774
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: them to the only championship everyone when they beat Case State, um,

775
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: and I didn't that Knox Case State out of the

776
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: out of the title game and then Tennessee won the

777
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: title that year ironically with t Martin. If I remember

778
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: correctly the way that all played out, what the home

779
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: going to understand? Correct? But anyway, but you know, to

780
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: answer your question, I just think, you know, I think

781
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: football is just football. That's just that's just what it is.

782
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: And you know, the people you get to do it

783
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: with the players on the field, they determined. You know

784
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: what your success is gonna be. It's not so much

785
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 1: your scheme or you know, your formations or whatever. It's

786
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: it's the players that you have and how you utilize them.

787
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: So I just think it's you know, you know, the

788
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: stuff that the NFL is doing right now, that that's

789
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: been going on a long time. What I was gonna

790
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: say when I spoke at that clinic in nineteen ninety four,

791
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: the spring ninety four, you know, we've been running his

792
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: own read. I was running with the guy that uh

793
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: steam Bell, Cody lad Better. I met him runned earlier

794
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 1: at Hamling years ago, but we really kind of perfected

795
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: it in nineteen ninety This guy went on if Ashko

796
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: State as a q being actually led the nation and

797
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: Total Guards one of these years there. But we're running

798
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 1: his own read with him, and I'm going over that

799
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: clinic talk and comes up to me, you know, says, hey,

800
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be telling anybody that, So that's that's some

801
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: unique stuff, you know, And uh, I can remember him

802
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: saying that then, and I'm thinking, you know, this is

803
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: we started doing this four years ago. You know that

804
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: Just to me, it kind of showed how you know,

805
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: because when you get when you get really good people,

806
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 1: you try to define plays, uh that that utilize those

807
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: good people. You know, where you're satisfied with the three

808
00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: and a half to four and a half yard for

809
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: duction play or you you know, you're you're running all

810
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: these intermediate routes and throwing you know, checking it down.

811
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: You know I'm checking it up, you know. I mean

812
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: we're trying to score touchdowns, you know, because I found

813
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 1: that a long time ago. You can't score unless you're trying,

814
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, so you know, the offensive job is to

815
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: hurt the defense. So it's just it's just a mentality.

816
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: But uh, to answer your question in a broad sense,

817
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: I think what you're saying today across the board. You

818
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 1: can go to a high school football game in East

819
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: Tennessee and I think you can see the very same

820
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,760
Speaker 1: thing they're doing if if you watch the Kansas City Chiefs,

821
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: you know, playing because it's it's mirrored and it's the

822
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: same all the way across just so many you know,

823
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,320
Speaker 1: you can't you can't teach uh, combination routes and you know,

824
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: running plays any differently in the NFL, and you can

825
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: teach them the high school. It's just it just doesn't exist.

826
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: What did it feel like to take r G three

827
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: to the Heisman Trophy ceremony and win it there? Uh,

828
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 1: you find a kid and you know, he said, the

829
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: seventh overall in his class, he's got the ability to throw.

830
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: He's an incredible athlete. Nobody else really is going to

831
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: give him the opportunity that you did. And then you

832
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: see it come to fruition in a ceremony like that.

833
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: What did that night feel like for you and for

834
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: the Baylor program. I think it was just kind of

835
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: kind of right where Robert said, unbelievably believable. You know,

836
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: it's just this is really happening to at that time,

837
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: our little, you know, hidden private school here in Waco, Texas,

838
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: you know, to where he's one of the most prestigious

839
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: honor of collegiate athletes athletics. I guess if you want

840
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: to look at it that way, Uh, it was just

841
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: just kind of crazy. But it just shows the momentum

842
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: and the you know the power of being in the

843
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: right place at the right time. I mean, we won

844
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: some and we I think we ended up ten and

845
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: three that year. You know, we were thirteen and o

846
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: or twelve and one. Or whatever. You know. I mean,

847
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: we we some games that they're go using that word,

848
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: but we you know, we didn't win some games that

849
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, we that that could have helped us, you know,

850
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: down the stretch, but we won some late uh that

851
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: that really showed out Robert's ability, you know. And I

852
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: think we opened up that season beating TCU, who was

853
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: just coming off a Rose Bowl win and they were

854
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: like number five in American We beat them, I think

855
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: like two, you know, at home on Friday night. So

856
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: he gave he gave Robert instant credibility from the opening

857
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: gangs of the season. You know, you finished up. I'm sorry, no,

858
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: I was gonna say. The Oklahoma game is what a

859
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: lot of people I think are going to remember from

860
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: that that season, which was as big of a win

861
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: as as you guys have ever had. Well, he the

862
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: first time they ever beat him in the history of

863
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: the university. You know, kind of kind of a big deal. Yeah,

864
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: that was I think that was a Saturday night game.

865
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: And you know, ironically he throws a touchdown past with

866
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: no time left, so you know it is in the

867
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: dramatic fashion. You know, we're able to win, just when

868
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: we've been did beat TCU. I mean, we're down and

869
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: we take it down to down the field. In the

870
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 1: last you know, he catches, actually catches a double past

871
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: to convert a third and ten that kept us alive

872
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: and we go down to kick a field going to

873
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: beat him. So um, you know, it's just in the

874
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: fashion that had happened. And I think it was so

875
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 1: unexpected from Baylor at that time that the national media

876
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: you know, caught hold and Robert with his ability, you know,

877
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: just just took off. And I knew once he got

878
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: started doing interviews and stuff that you know, everybody was

879
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: love him because he was he was a gracious person

880
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 1: that it was very humble. Honestly, what does it feel

881
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: like standing on the sideline as the head coach? I

882
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,919
Speaker 1: know you want for you know, a bunch of state

883
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: championships at Texas, But when Baylor beats Oklahoma, what's it

884
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: feel like in that moment on the sideline? Can you

885
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: even put it into words? Yeah? I really can. Just

886
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: just humbled, you know, very humbled, very grateful because you

887
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,760
Speaker 1: you never are able to experience, you know, those feelings

888
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: and those those times in your life without a lot

889
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: of people helping you and believe in you, you know,

890
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 1: and and just a lot of coordination from a lot

891
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: of areas to make it happen. So just uh and

892
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: and really having a lot of people you know, support you,

893
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: and just so just a real humble, chilling you know.

894
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 1: I was never a guy that you know, was a

895
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: was a wild you know, cheerleader on the sideline and

896
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: and doing all that because I know that the bad

897
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: times are out there, you know, on football field. You know,

898
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: there's always you know, something that could always go wrong

899
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: on the field. So you know, when the good things happen,

900
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: you just you appreciate them, you enjoy them, h but

901
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: you don't glow local you know that. That's the way

902
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: I always was. Always try to make our guys feel

903
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: very thankful and very respectful and appreciative to being and

904
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: these you know, these situations and being able to experience

905
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,919
Speaker 1: that because uh, you know, it's um it's a fun

906
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: time for a lot of people. But cause all the

907
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: energy and effort they put into it, a lot of

908
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: people thought maybe r G three leaves program will to

909
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: send back into you know, Baylor level mediocrity. Instead, you

910
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: take it to another level. In thirteen eleven and two, uh,

911
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: and you go to the Fiesta Bowl in fourteen eleven

912
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 1: and two go to the Cotton Bowl, get that tie

913
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: for first place, maybe keeps you out of the College

914
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 1: Football Playoff. And I know that was contentious, and then

915
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: you go tended, Mae, but I want to I want

916
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 1: to ask you about that when the when the polls

917
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: come out. And now, to be fair, that's the first

918
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: year of the College Football Playoff, I think, if I'm

919
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: remembering correctly, in fourteen and Ohio State just absolutely obliterates

920
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 1: Wisconsin in the Big Ten title, and you guys are

921
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: going head to head with TCU and you both have

922
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: a claim on potentially that spot. Do you think your

923
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: team that year was good enough to win a national championship?

924
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know if we're good enough to

925
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: win a national title that year. You know, I think

926
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: you'd have to get the playoffs to find out. On us,

927
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: we think, you know, on down the line, we we

928
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: had some teams that were you know, just as good

929
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: a better like you know, if we just stayed healthy

930
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: in fifteen, no doubt, you know. With with Seth Russell

931
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: running show, Rice Petty want us to back to back

932
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: Big Twelve titles, and then uh, Nick Florence got us

933
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: through in twelve, you know, did a great job in

934
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: twilve to keep us kind of on that national level.

935
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: You know, we were just kind of up and down,

936
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: but beat Kansas State that year when they were number

937
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: one in America. And then then we go out and

938
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: play in the Holiday Bowling but us l A who

939
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: had won the Pack twelve West I believe that year,

940
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: so you know, we kind of kept a little momentum.

941
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: But you know in fourteen, uh, that's the year. That's

942
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: the first year of the college playoffs. Plays that right,

943
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: I don't want to make sure I'm right. Yeah, I

944
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: think that's right. I think that's the year Ohio State. Yeah,

945
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: I'm almost positive that's the year Ohio State came in

946
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: as the four seed, upset Alabama and then beat Mariota

947
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: and the Oregon Ducks to win the title. Yes, sir,

948
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: And that that was the deal where you know, like

949
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: I said, it was the first year of the playoffs

950
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 1: and and we were you know, we're still just kind

951
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 1: of fighting to get up there with with you know,

952
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 1: stay in the top five or so most of that year,

953
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: you know, because we were pretty good, we had a

954
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: bad loss, I believe in West Virginia. And then we

955
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: had a bunch of big wins. You know, we beat

956
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,439
Speaker 1: beat Texas on the road, bat o U on the road,

957
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: which you know, I think it never happened before in

958
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: the history of the Big Twelve, you know, for somebody

959
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: to beat those two teams on the road in the

960
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: same season. So you know, we were we were a

961
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 1: pretty dominant football team, to be honest with you, and um,

962
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: you know, and it's it was just a deal where

963
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: I felt like, I know, TCU beat US. Um, I

964
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: felt like, was that to your TCU beat US? I

965
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: think TCU beat your head to head. Oh no, we

966
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: beat them. I'm sorry you had you would have had

967
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: to tie break right if if it had been a

968
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: traditional situation, but you didn't have the I'm with you now. Yeah,

969
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: we beat them in in thirteen and were team and

970
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: yeah we beat them head to head, and then we

971
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: lost to West Virginia. They end of one loss, We

972
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 1: end up with one loss, but they're one loss was

973
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 1: against US. So my my deal was and it's a

974
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: Big twelfth of the time. They said, if you have

975
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 1: two teams with one loss, your coach champs. Yeah, right,

976
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 1: and that's not the way that you break a tie

977
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 1: in any other you know, like any other league that's

978
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,879
Speaker 1: ever existed in the history of mankind. The number one

979
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: tie break is what did you do? Had to have? Yeah?

980
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: If you and I raised and you beat me, your

981
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: fashion and I am you know, So that's that's just

982
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: the way it is. And I can remember telling the commissioner, hey,

983
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: you if y'all don't declare somebody the winner, somebody the

984
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: Big twelfth champion, either of us or t s U,

985
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: then we're not gonna get anybody in. You know, we're

986
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: gonna finish. Because he gives a committee out, you know,

987
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: he gives him an app to say, hey, there's two

988
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: Big twelve champions. We can't take one. I mean, you know, coincident.

989
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: And we finished fifth in the in the voting that year,

990
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: and you beat TCU that year as a hell of

991
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: a game. I remember it now, I'm going back to

992
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: look it up. Yeah it was. We were actually down

993
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 1: twenty one I think in the fourth and uh, you know,

994
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: came back and and scored and won. So that was

995
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: that was a big win. And it was you know,

996
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: they were really good at time. They had a good

997
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: football team uh. And you guys obviously had a good

998
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: football team too, And like I said, you went, uh

999
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: eleven in two eleven and two ten and three, all right,

1000
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden controversy arises. And this

1001
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 1: is something that so I'm gonna be honest, like I'm

1002
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: putting my lawyer hat on here now. I tend to

1003
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: when stories like these come up, Um, there is sort

1004
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: of this media onslaught and uh and and I'm curious

1005
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: for you, uh as as this sort of storm cloud gathers,

1006
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: did you realize what exactly was coming or were you

1007
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,800
Speaker 1: kind of blindsided by the way that the whole process

1008
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: began to develop where the investigation into Sam I believes

1009
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: who waka you? If I'm not mistaken, I might be

1010
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: messing up his name, uh college, it turns into a

1011
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: massive investigation um involving off the field incidents involving Baylor

1012
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: football players. So I'm gonna take you back in time

1013
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 1: to like the off season of were you conscious of

1014
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: what was coming and and of the storm clouds that

1015
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: were gathering or were you totally blindsided by this? I

1016
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: can say that you know, just completely blindside. And I

1017
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: really think all of us weren't you administration everything, uh,

1018
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: including the university, you know, and maybe even the border

1019
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: regents who uh, you know, I think we're put in

1020
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: a situation they certainly weren't prepared for. And I think

1021
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: that's you know, showing it's it's tail. But you know,

1022
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: we just at that time and the summer, you know,

1023
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: we they were just investigating. We like when they came

1024
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: in and we were told sound's situation, you know. And

1025
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: Sam was a guy that transferred from Boys and Chris

1026
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 1: Peterson actually called me, you know, and I asked me

1027
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 1: to take Sam. He said, I've got this guy that

1028
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,240
Speaker 1: you know in subordinate. You know, he won't come to practice,

1029
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,720
Speaker 1: he won't stay around. He's a good player. He's from Houston,

1030
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: you know, and I think, you know, bed, it's a

1031
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: good place for him because I've known Chris and you know,

1032
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: been on a couple of trips with him and his

1033
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 1: wife and um, so he felt like, you know, he

1034
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: knew me. He thought we would could be a good

1035
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: place for him. So we you know, I said, yeah,

1036
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: we're looking to us, and we checked into it with

1037
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: this high school coach at Caryland, Texas, uh, Tony Heap,

1038
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 1: and you know, Coach Bennett. You know, we had a

1039
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: couple of players on the team that have played with

1040
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 1: and we talked to them and um, you don't think

1041
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: checked out. But you know, Sam at the end of

1042
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 1: the day, you know, he never played it down for us,

1043
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 1: you know, once he got investigated and had an allegation

1044
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: and we pulled him out of him out of everything,

1045
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: and um, and so that's that was what that was

1046
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: all about at that time. And well, I want to

1047
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 1: I want to talk about Sam for a sec because

1048
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: I do think this is a this is an important

1049
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: detail and a lot of times people have their names

1050
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,280
Speaker 1: out there and you know, the initial onslaught of coverage,

1051
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: and sometimes I can be guilty of this because I'm

1052
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: in the media and everybody's talking about stories. This was

1053
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 1: a really complicated case and I'm just gonna give a

1054
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: background here for people who don't know. Uh. He was

1055
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 1: charged with sexual assault, he was found guilty, then the

1056
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: conviction was overturned, he got a new trial, then the

1057
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: conviction I think was reinstated, and then it was reversed

1058
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: again in July of So ultimately I believe I'm correcting this.

1059
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: He was not convicted of any crime and I and

1060
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: but that's like a five year process that this thing

1061
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: went on, right, Yeah, it's uh, I mean, it's a

1062
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: crazy story that it went on for five years, this

1063
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: investigation into sexual assault, and ultimately he was found not

1064
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 1: to have committed a crime, even though obviously this was

1065
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,399
Speaker 1: a big part of the store that led to your

1066
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: auster and the quote unquote scandal that surrounded Baylor athletics.

1067
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 1: So that's that's one of the stories that's out there

1068
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: that I don't think a lot of people know, no,

1069
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: And that's it's just, you know, it's it's a shame

1070
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: for first of all, that for him and you know,

1071
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: the alleged victim, you know that it's it's a shame

1072
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: they were both called in that situation. And but it just,

1073
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, it kept Sound from fulfilling his athletic career,

1074
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: no doubt. You know, he did end up staying there

1075
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: and graduate from college and you know, never had another

1076
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: another instant to my knowledge. But it's so he graduated

1077
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 1: from Baylor. Have you talked to him recently? I really haven't. No,

1078
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: I haven't, but I think he's living in Houston and

1079
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: working somewhere. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk

1080
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at

1081
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart

1082
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 1: Radio app search f s R to listen live. Okay,

1083
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 1: and then another one that I think is a big

1084
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 1: part of this scandal, and I'm curious if you've had

1085
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: any relationship with him, was Sean Oakman, who was an

1086
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 1: All American defensive end would have been I think you

1087
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: can speak to this much better than I can. Potentially

1088
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: a first round caliber talent. He was arrested on charges

1089
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: of sexual assault and then he was found not guilty

1090
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: of the charges against him. But it took three years

1091
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: for those charges to be found not guilty, and if

1092
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, the jury only deliberated for like a

1093
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: really short time. That feels like it was in many ways.

1094
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: And again I'm whearing my lawyer had here a miscarriage

1095
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: of justice. And let me explain to people who are

1096
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,240
Speaker 1: listening to me out there. I believe if you're charged

1097
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 1: with a crime by a district attorney and the jury

1098
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 1: goes out and they deliberate for like forty five minutes

1099
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,720
Speaker 1: and they unanimously find you not guilty after three years

1100
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 1: of you having been charged with a crime, that's a

1101
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: sign of prosecuted prosecutorial misconduct in my mind, because that

1102
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: jury listens and they met mediately say no, there's not

1103
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: anything here. And honestly, there's a guy playing for the

1104
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:06,320
Speaker 1: Denver Broncos now that I pay attention to. Uh, I

1105
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,720
Speaker 1: believe a J. Johnson from Tennessee who was also found

1106
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 1: not guilty in like forty five minutes after being dragged

1107
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 1: through something for years. And I'm not saying any of

1108
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: these situations are in any way great for the alleged

1109
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: victims or the victims and any kind of situations like this,

1110
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying, if a jury listens for forty

1111
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,720
Speaker 1: five minutes and says no, this guy is unanimously not guilty,

1112
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: something was wrong on the prosecutorial side. But the reason

1113
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: why I bring these up with you are Briles and

1114
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 1: we're talking on the Winds and Watches podcast, is two

1115
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: cases that were cited as evidence of why you needed

1116
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: to lose your job and why Baylor was out of control.

1117
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: Both ended ultimately and not guilty verdicts. What do you

1118
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 1: know about Sean Oakman? What kind of relationship do you

1119
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:48,359
Speaker 1: have with the guy? Because I watched the video, I'm

1120
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 1: gonna be honest with you. I mean, it was hard

1121
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: for me as a dad to watch that and see

1122
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: him crying after the not guilty verdict and saying not

1123
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: that he was talking about himself, but how bad he

1124
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: felt for Baylor football because he felt responsible for part

1125
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: of the scandal and he didn't feel like he had

1126
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:07,959
Speaker 1: done anything wrong. That it was it was really tough,

1127
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 1: you know it. It was really hard at the time

1128
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: when they, um, you know, said that that you know,

1129
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: Sean had done that it actually happened, and that it

1130
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 1: happened like two weeks before the NFL Draft, I believe,

1131
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: and it was in April of and uh, I can

1132
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: remember it vividly. He actually had graduated, uh that December,

1133
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 1: so he was he was you know student, yeah, I mean,

1134
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 1: and honestly the first graduate in his family's history. So

1135
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 1: that that was something that was something that you know,

1136
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: if I ever had anything that I wanted to hang

1137
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: my hat on, it was first generational graduates. You know.

1138
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: That was one thing always stressed our guys. And while

1139
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: I was in Beta, we were the first or second

1140
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: and Big twelve and graduation rate and we actually had

1141
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,320
Speaker 1: the highest g p A in the history of the

1142
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 1: university in the spring of But when that when that

1143
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: happened was Sean. He was us living there and wake

1144
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: go working out, getting ready for the draft, and it

1145
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: was just it was just devastating, you know because, like

1146
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 1: you mentioned, it was another case on top of the

1147
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 1: case with the sound case. And and we did have

1148
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: a guy that was convicted in twenty twelve or thirteen.

1149
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 1: Uh you know that is I did serve time. He's

1150
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: actually the only one that ever you know, we got

1151
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: convicted of any player that ever coached. And once I

1152
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: found out he was, you know, in a case, we

1153
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 1: you know, we dismissed him gun program and actually the

1154
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: university let him stay in school, end up transferring to

1155
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 1: another university but never finished there. But anyway, the deal

1156
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: with Sean was just it was awful. You know, I

1157
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: was in Italy actually coaching. I think that just happened

1158
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: like about a year ago when he you know, got

1159
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: the not guilty, cause it wasn't until February of nineteen.

1160
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: He was arrested in April of s and it was

1161
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 1: almost three years later that he was finally found not

1162
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: guilty of that charge. Yeah, I can remember I was

1163
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: over in Italy with you know, I had a couple

1164
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: of three players that had played a beta over with me,

1165
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: and a couple of them coaching, and a couple of

1166
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: playing when I'm coaching, and uh, you know, this one

1167
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: guy kept up with Sean, him and Sean ra buddy.

1168
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: So you know, I actually talked to Sean on the phone,

1169
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: you know, after after he was exonerated, and it was

1170
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: he was just you know, just just tearfully happy, you know,

1171
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: I mean, just relieve. And you can imagine the three

1172
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 1: years you know that he went through, because that's your question. Initially, Yeah,

1173
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 1: he was a first round talent, no doubt, you know.

1174
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: And so that's but that to me is that's inconsequential

1175
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: to you know, what it does to it, to his

1176
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: name and his uh you know, and what it does

1177
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: to your soul. I mean that that's where it hits you,

1178
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: you know, because you can always um, you know, maintain

1179
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: and and fight on. But I'm telling you, when when

1180
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 1: you get when you get your soul dragged into it

1181
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: and get that that put on you, it's, uh, it's

1182
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 1: a hard, hard, hard thing to live with and a hard,

1183
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: hard burden to carry. So he he carried that for

1184
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: three years wherever where he went. You know, people are

1185
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 1: looking at and they're saying that that guy is guilty

1186
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: of the sexual assault, you know, until he got exonerated.

1187
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 1: But um, you know, so I'm I'm happy that that

1188
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: that he was innocent, and now I'm happy that I

1189
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: think he's playing the next sail now at in l

1190
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 1: A and hopefully he has I mean to me, so

1191
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: this is again me me kind of putting my lawyer

1192
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 1: hat on here. Um. And but I'm also I think

1193
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 1: in a unique spot because I'm in the media, and

1194
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 1: so in the media, you are obligated in the culture

1195
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 1: we live in to have opinions. Right, I'm in the

1196
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: opinion business, and so every day you look at the

1197
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: evidence and you have an opinion. But a lot of

1198
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: times it's very surface level based opinions, and especially when

1199
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: legal issues are concerned. I try to dive into it,

1200
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: right because I this is my legal background, maybe training,

1201
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: and I've worked in the criminal justice system, and I

1202
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: know how complicated these cases are. And it bothers me

1203
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: in a big way. As soon as a guy's name

1204
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: is attached to a sexual assault, a lot of people

1205
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: immediately say that guy is guilty, that guy is an

1206
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: awful human being and they just throw the book at him.

1207
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: And Shawn Oakman, to me, is a great example of

1208
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 1: this because three years it takes him to actually get

1209
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: the opportunity to appear in front of a court, and

1210
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: when a jury of his peers actually hears all the evidence,

1211
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: they immediately basically agree unanimously, this is not a sexual assault.

1212
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: There's no case here. But most people never even hear that, right,

1213
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 1: because you know this, the initial headline comes out of

1214
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: the sexual assault, and then the sports media disappears. Right

1215
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: because we're not the sports media, good news doesn't sell.

1216
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 1: But also because we're not most of the time sports

1217
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: media members qualified to then follow court cases unless you're

1218
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: a superhuman star, right like Ray Lewis or Mike Tyson

1219
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: or somebody that is of that ilk where it's gonna

1220
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: be our Aaron Hernandez for that case, where the case

1221
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 1: is actually gonna be covered on television. The Shawn Oakman's

1222
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 1: of the world, people just vanished, like the A. J.

1223
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 1: Johnson's in Tennessee, and all that's left is that scarlet letter. Right.

1224
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: People remember the charge, they oftentimes don't remember the exoneration.

1225
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: And I try to share these things and I'm not

1226
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: saying I was perfect in the way that I talked

1227
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 1: about the Baylor case. Because the other thing, Coach, and

1228
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 1: you know this is if you're a guy and you

1229
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: defend somebody who is charged with a crime like this,

1230
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: then people come after you and they say, oh, look

1231
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 1: at that guy. And people worry about getting tired and feathered,

1232
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 1: they worry about the mob coming after them, and so

1233
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 1: there's got to be a villain. And we just walked through.

1234
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 1: You said there was one guy who committed crimes and

1235
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: ended up graduating from from Baylor. But the big ones

1236
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 1: that got a lot of attention are Sam who con

1237
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 1: watch you whose name I might be mispronouncing, and Sean Oakman,

1238
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 1: who were both ultimately found not to have committed crimes.

1239
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: And for all of that, the bailor president loses his job,

1240
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: the athletic director loses his job, and you lose your job. Um,

1241
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 1: and I want to say this, I believe the athletic

1242
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 1: director is an athletic director somewhere now, right. I know

1243
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 1: he got another athletic directing job, right, and also, uh,

1244
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 1: he was out of work for six months. And then also,

1245
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 1: and this is crazy to me, Ken Starr, who a

1246
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: lot of people will recognized the name, even if they

1247
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 1: didn't remember that he was the president of Baylor. He

1248
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 1: is one of Donald Trump's defenders in the Senate. The

1249
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: President of the United States of America hires ken Start

1250
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 1: to represent him arguing in the well of the Senate

1251
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: against impeachment, which is arguably arguably the single most important

1252
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: job that any lawyer can have in America. And I

1253
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 1: didn't hear hardly anybody even mentioned the Bailor incident. But

1254
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: you coach, are not allowed to coach in the cfl

1255
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 1: end You aren't allowed. A lot of people didn't want

1256
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: you to coach. Now you're coaching in high school football.

1257
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,479
Speaker 1: Why do you think you ended up the one guy

1258
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: who was in that room, uh, and in the Baylor's

1259
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: sort of administration who was untouchable, and everybody else seems

1260
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: to be able to get jobs. I think everybody on

1261
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: your staff got jobs. Why do you think that happened? Fortunately,

1262
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 1: everybody did end up getting a job, And Clay that

1263
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: if I could answer that question, I would, you know,

1264
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 1: I would certainly uh bringing a lot smoother these days.

1265
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 1: It's just it's mind boggling to me, quite honestly. I mean,

1266
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 1: if you're the you know, if you're the leader of

1267
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 1: a program, or you're the captain of the ship, or

1268
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 1: however you want to say it, you know, then then

1269
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,040
Speaker 1: that's that's where the blame is going to go. I

1270
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 1: think a couple of telling facts are is that, you know,

1271
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 1: once they dismissed me, um, you know, the whole staff

1272
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: stayed intact, you know, for the whole next year. They

1273
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 1: got they may work there and stayed the whole the

1274
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: whole next year. So it wasn't like it was a

1275
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 1: culture a bad you know, characters and bad people and

1276
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: stuff that was going on. You know, I mean, they

1277
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 1: just I think they needed uh, somebody that they could

1278
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 1: uh you know, pointed to Uh, I'm not And do

1279
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 1: you feel like you were Do you feel like you

1280
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 1: were the fall guy? I don't. I don't think there's

1281
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: any question, you know, And uh, you know, it's like

1282
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 1: I said, it's a situation where I'm I'm not trying

1283
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 1: to sway somebody's opinion. But I think if you do

1284
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 1: study the facts you know that are involved in the

1285
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 1: in the Invader's scandal or situation or whatever you want

1286
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 1: to call it, then I and as they start coming

1287
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: out more and more just like we had a deposition,

1288
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of weeks ago with one of

1289
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 1: the border regents who said the coach files was not

1290
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 1: dismissed for mishandling any sexual conduct sexual cases. And you know,

1291
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 1: I told the lawyer that did the deposition, I said, well,

1292
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 1: you'd have a hard time getting American leave that, you know.

1293
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 1: You know, but that's coming from a group. It's mouth. Yeah,

1294
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: it's just it's mind boggling to me, and I believe

1295
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 1: I'm correcting this. Baylor's legal counsel sent a letter to

1296
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 1: you saying specifically that you did not fail or discourage

1297
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: victims from reporting to law enforcement or university officials. That

1298
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: basically your behavior, as if people wanted somebody to be

1299
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: responsible here. But Baylor itself and its own investigation cleared you, right, yeah,

1300
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 1: I mean one thousand percent. And then you know, all

1301
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:35,640
Speaker 1: the way through, I never talked to a victim, never

1302
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 1: text with a victim, never did anything my entire nine

1303
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: years at Baylor and well eight football seasons and nine springs.

1304
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: And you know, they had access the Pepper Hamilton's, Baylor officials,

1305
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: everybody had access to everything that I ever did because

1306
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,439
Speaker 1: I had one phone. The whole time I was there,

1307
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 1: they got a hold of it, took everything out of it,

1308
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 1: had one computer, did everything out of my computer, and

1309
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 1: you know, so it's you know, um so it was

1310
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 1: pretty transparent from that in you know, and um so,

1311
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's been a it's been a situation

1312
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 1: where I've just tried to you know, keep a real

1313
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 1: positive attitude. You know. I feel extremely you know, bad

1314
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 1: and and hurtful for you know, girls and people that

1315
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 1: were victimized during my time there. But you know, uh,

1316
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 1: it's sadly, that's just you know, kind of the way

1317
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 1: the world is today, you know. And I hate to

1318
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: say that, but that's that's just a reality. I mean,

1319
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 1: it's a it's the world's in the situation where you know,

1320
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 1: if you're not very very protective of of yourself, you're

1321
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: around and you know something you know back that happened.

1322
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 1: But that's just just the way it is today. So

1323
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 1: um you know, I said, I feel I feel, you know,

1324
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 1: terrible for the things that went on while I was there,

1325
01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 1: But when you look at the facts of the situation

1326
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 1: and how we handled them, even without you know, preparation,

1327
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: that we had won the whole time, I was there.

1328
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: I was never given any direction on how to handle

1329
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: any discipline at all in any situation. We didn't get

1330
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 1: title nine until November of um, you know, and nobody

1331
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 1: ever directed me on anything. So um, you know, we

1332
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 1: just kind of did the best with what we had.

1333
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, some border regions

1334
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 1: felt like that one good enough, and I think they

1335
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 1: felt pressured into making a change. And you know, I

1336
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 1: was the guy to do the change with. I just

1337
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 1: didn't know that they you know, that it would go

1338
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 1: to the next level of where you know, I would be. Uh.

1339
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 1: I guess you could just say unhirible in any situations

1340
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: right now. So when you lost your job, were you

1341
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 1: stunned that it had gotten to that level? Did you

1342
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 1: have any indication that you were going to be in

1343
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 1: By the way, it wasn't just you who lost their jobs.

1344
01:07:56,960 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 1: Ken Starr lost his job as president of the university

1345
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: because the larger investigation revealed issues that weren't unique to football,

1346
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 1: that were related to Baylor in general. UM and and

1347
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: and and also the athletic director. But like I just said,

1348
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 1: those guys get you know, got another a d job.

1349
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 1: And ken starrs representing Donald Trump in the well of

1350
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 1: the Senate during the impeachment trial, and yet you can't

1351
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 1: coach in the CFL. I would to ask you answer

1352
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 1: your question. Was I shocked, just completely completely shocked. It was,

1353
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, I was made of seen, you know. And

1354
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 1: I'm in there meeting actually with Todd Graham and two

1355
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 1: of his offensive staff guys had come from Arizona State

1356
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 1: to talk offensive football on Thursday morning about It was

1357
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:47,760
Speaker 1: about seven thirty in the morning, and and you know,

1358
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 1: we just had a meeting with the boarder of Select

1359
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:53,679
Speaker 1: Border Regions two nights earlier. I asked for maybe because

1360
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:56,519
Speaker 1: one of my friends that was on the board told

1361
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 1: me they had a straw vote in Houston Friday before.

1362
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 1: And he said, Coach, it doesn't look good, you know,

1363
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: and actually said I failed to miss. I had to

1364
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 1: leave go back to the regions. I mean a board

1365
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 1: of directors meeting in Dallas. Another guy that was on

1366
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 1: the board that was kinda friend of mine, was in

1367
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:17,719
Speaker 1: California at the time and wasn't at the meeting. He said,

1368
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 1: and I said, you're telling me they're gonna they're gonna

1369
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 1: let me go and not even give me an opportunity

1370
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 1: to talk to him. He said, well you can make

1371
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: this call. This costs if you get something together. So

1372
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 1: I did and I got me at me and Ian

1373
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 1: in front of the Select Board of Regions, select Group

1374
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: of Border Regions. This is your athletic director at the time. Yes, yeah,

1375
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: Ian McCall and a great man, just one of the

1376
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 1: best ever. Um. And so you know, we did that

1377
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 1: meeting choose and I was I was worried, you know,

1378
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:48,719
Speaker 1: I was. I was really worried about Ian and some others.

1379
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I've had a personal staff come in and

1380
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: who he had gone a wall for three days and

1381
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:58,680
Speaker 1: you know, contemplating, you know, not carrying on. And so

1382
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 1: it was. It was a really really uh intense time,

1383
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 1: you know, because of all the pressure that we're getting

1384
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 1: as a university and as a football staff in me

1385
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 1: particularly as a head football coach. So and Ian was

1386
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 1: getting a lot of it. And like I said, there's

1387
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 1: not a better person that I've ever been around, and

1388
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:19,760
Speaker 1: him the calling. UM. So I was worried about him.

1389
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 1: And we go meet Tuesday and I hear nothing the West,

1390
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 1: you know, I you know, I want to check on

1391
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 1: me and say he's doing I calling, no response, he

1392
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 1: doesn't call me back. It's extremely uncommon. Um. And then

1393
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:36,960
Speaker 1: I get a call from the first morning. He says, coach, Wow, Uh,

1394
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 1: what you're doing. I said, well, and you know, I'm here,

1395
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 1: been missing with these guys. And I said, are you okay,

1396
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 1: you know he said. He says, I'm fine. But he says, um,

1397
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:51,560
Speaker 1: they're don't let you go. I said, your kid and

1398
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 1: said no. I said, what's what's the deal? And he said, well,

1399
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: they just don't think you're the right man to lead

1400
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,679
Speaker 1: the program at the time, which is just like taking

1401
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: up a knife and sticking through my heart because um,

1402
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:06,640
Speaker 1: you know, they kind of felt like that, but like

1403
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 1: as the right guy the previous eight seasons, you know,

1404
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I'm not the right person

1405
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 1: to do it. And so he said, we're supposed to

1406
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 1: meet with you know, the general counsel and HR person

1407
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 1: uh here in the in thirty minutes, you know, in

1408
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 1: my office. So you know, I go up there and

1409
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, we we sit there and you know, he

1410
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 1: has to do it because it's got to be a

1411
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 1: formal situation, you know, and he says, hey, we're we're

1412
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:41,400
Speaker 1: letting you go with I think they used word intent

1413
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 1: to terminate. You know, it's like a ten day pers

1414
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 1: or something there they have to do and um, so

1415
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 1: you know, the world just just spends. The stops and

1416
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 1: and I've actually got I've got I've written a book

1417
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 1: that i haven't put out there. It took me a

1418
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 1: year and a half to write it. Play but so

1419
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: it's got all this this inside personal stuff in it.

1420
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 1: But you know, it's just, I mean, the world just stops.

1421
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:09,600
Speaker 1: And did you write that book because you felt like

1422
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:12,679
Speaker 1: you needed to have even if it didn't get published

1423
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 1: one day, it mattered to you to put the whole

1424
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 1: story out there from your perspective, I mean, just for

1425
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 1: self therapy, quite honestly, I mean because you know, it

1426
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 1: just it just changes you as a person. And it's just,

1427
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:28,800
Speaker 1: you know, because I've always, you know, been a guy

1428
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 1: that's tried to be extremely fair and honest and loyal

1429
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: of people. And really what what made me a good

1430
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:36,720
Speaker 1: coach is kind of what you know, at the end

1431
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 1: of the day got me a little bit of trouble

1432
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 1: because I've always trusted people, and I've been very loyal,

1433
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's always trusted everybody, uh, you know that

1434
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:49,599
Speaker 1: make decisions, uh, and been loyal to them as much

1435
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 1: as I could all the way through. And at the

1436
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 1: end of the day, you know, the one thing I

1437
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 1: found out is that, sadly that you know, protecting the image,

1438
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 1: protecting the hand sometimes more important than uh counted by

1439
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:06,680
Speaker 1: the heartness soul, and I can I can understand that

1440
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,959
Speaker 1: from the outside. From the inside, it's hard to understand.

1441
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 1: You think Baylor basically made the decision if we let

1442
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 1: our briles go, all of the negative attention will disappear.

1443
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 1: And you were what they served up to the media

1444
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 1: to serve, to pay penance for all of the negative

1445
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: attention surrounding these incidents. Even if years later, sam Ka

1446
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 1: watch you as well as Sean Oakman would actually be

1447
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: found innocent or not guilty, You depend on how you

1448
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 1: want to qualify it. Of the crimes, it didn't matter

1449
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 1: in the short term. Baylor needed the stories to disappear,

1450
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 1: and serving you up sort of your head on the

1451
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:49,680
Speaker 1: platter was the best way they decided to do that.

1452
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: I think so. And I think what they didn't see

1453
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 1: is that they had a university wife problem. I think

1454
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 1: they knew it on the inside. Uh, they knew where

1455
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,680
Speaker 1: the problems were with um, with the way that they

1456
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:04,600
Speaker 1: were responding to sexual assault cases outside of even the

1457
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 1: football universe, just at the university as a whole, and

1458
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: they knew that was going on. They knew that victims

1459
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:16,200
Speaker 1: were not being handled properly, that they were, you know,

1460
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 1: being encouraged not to report and not to keep going

1461
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:23,560
Speaker 1: on and which is completely wrong. And there were no

1462
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 1: places for these victims to go. And so that I

1463
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 1: feel like they they thought that if if they let

1464
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 1: me go, then that'll ease things out. They'll try to

1465
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 1: get things right on the inside, where when they do

1466
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 1: get scrutinized later on, that you know, they can stay

1467
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 1: here at where we are, and they are in good

1468
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 1: shape now. And I think, you know, it is better

1469
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 1: for the for the victims and the students at at

1470
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 1: Beata University now than it was eight years ago. It's

1471
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 1: also better for the administrators also better for the staff,

1472
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 1: you know, because everybody there is a plan in place now.

1473
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 1: But at the time that's happening, I mean, I think

1474
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:03,760
Speaker 1: you're home sent right. I think the great thank you know,

1475
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:06,720
Speaker 1: we let you let coach files go, it'll back them

1476
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:09,120
Speaker 1: all some and then you know, we'll be able to

1477
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 1: fix up problems and move on. But those those problems

1478
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:15,519
Speaker 1: are known about and gonna be known about. Food lawsuits

1479
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:18,479
Speaker 1: that are still out there, there's some of the victims. Now,

1480
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:23,800
Speaker 1: what do you wish you had done? Differently? Everybody goes back.

1481
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:25,639
Speaker 1: I mean, you watch a in a in a much

1482
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 1: less serious fashion. You watch a football game. You go

1483
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:29,840
Speaker 1: back and you watch the tape and you say, dog

1484
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 1: gone it. I should have done this on third d

1485
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 1: eight and instead I didn't. That's what you're comfortable with,

1486
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 1: and that's what you're used to. Like, you're a football coach,

1487
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 1: so you're used to doing that. Finding yourself in the

1488
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 1: center of a media storm surrounding intensely serious allegations of impropriety,

1489
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:50,559
Speaker 1: You're not a politician, right, Like, you're not somebody. You're

1490
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 1: not Donald Trump or Barack Obama or you know, Bill

1491
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 1: Clinton or some of these guys who you know live

1492
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,680
Speaker 1: in scandal all the time. Because you're the president. You're

1493
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 1: used to people like in that same way, what do

1494
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 1: you wish you had known? To go back to our

1495
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:06,680
Speaker 1: brils in two thousand and fifteen as this story was

1496
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 1: starting and tell yourself that you know now that you

1497
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 1: didn't know then. Well, I mean just I mean, so

1498
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 1: many things, Clay. I mean, first of all, just uh,

1499
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 1: I mean just understanding uh, how how powerful, uh you know,

1500
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 1: the media can be, and just you know, how things

1501
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:30,840
Speaker 1: should spin out of control so quickly, I mean, the

1502
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 1: thing and you hit it and it's and it's it's

1503
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's only it's my fault. But I'm just

1504
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:38,760
Speaker 1: I was. I've always just been a football coach. And

1505
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:41,160
Speaker 1: I really think coming up through the high school rings,

1506
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,799
Speaker 1: you know, getting into college and then getting on national

1507
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:47,920
Speaker 1: singing and debat or where we got to. You know,

1508
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 1: I just as a coach and as a you know,

1509
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:55,000
Speaker 1: a person or leader of the program out there. You know,

1510
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:57,519
Speaker 1: I just I was just going to coach football. I

1511
01:16:57,640 --> 01:17:00,560
Speaker 1: think the thing I should have done differently is, you know,

1512
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:04,080
Speaker 1: my administrative levels, you know, should have been a lot better.

1513
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:08,760
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have maybe delegated as much responsibility to two

1514
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,880
Speaker 1: people as I did. As I did, Uh, you know,

1515
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:16,240
Speaker 1: I allowed myself to be protected, you know from some

1516
01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 1: of the things that were going on, which which is

1517
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:20,600
Speaker 1: my fault you know on it. And I think it

1518
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 1: goes on all over the nation. I think a lot

1519
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:26,960
Speaker 1: of times, you know, coaches and support staff trying to

1520
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:30,679
Speaker 1: protect you know, the head coach or something along those

1521
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 1: lines from just bringing day to day matters too. But um,

1522
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 1: the suggestion I had one when I met with the

1523
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:42,200
Speaker 1: regents was just into me. It's like the NFL, you know,

1524
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:45,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you put an office in the football you know,

1525
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 1: uh hallway that anything that happens with any of the

1526
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 1: student athletes goes right there. You have a person that

1527
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:57,640
Speaker 1: handles all the discipline. That person comes down and tells me,

1528
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 1: It tells, you know, football offer whatever, here's what we're

1529
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 1: going to do with this student athlete. And you do

1530
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 1: and you take it out of the coach's hands, you know,

1531
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:09,640
Speaker 1: and let coaches handle and not going to class and

1532
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:14,479
Speaker 1: missing study hall and all that stuff, but anything else,

1533
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 1: let let somebody else handle all that. So yeah, I

1534
01:18:18,240 --> 01:18:20,680
Speaker 1: made I made a lot of mistakes along the way. Um,

1535
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:23,920
Speaker 1: if I could, like you're saying, if I had stuff

1536
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:28,880
Speaker 1: I could change, I would. I would have you know, policies, procedures.

1537
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 1: I would make sure that everybody was you know, up

1538
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:33,880
Speaker 1: on Title nine. Like I said, the whole time I

1539
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:36,760
Speaker 1: was at Beat, I never had a Title nine in

1540
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 1: person with anybody. Um, And just just making sure that

1541
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:44,280
Speaker 1: everybody's on cue and I know that sounds, you know,

1542
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 1: backwards like ten years ago, but that's that's where we were,

1543
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 1: you know, in today's world, that is what's going on.

1544
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 1: You know, everybody is aware, everybody's protected, everybody understands, and

1545
01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:59,840
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a wait and see attitude,

1546
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:03,000
Speaker 1: which it should should be, and you know, always came

1547
01:19:03,080 --> 01:19:06,639
Speaker 1: up to where you know, if if somebody is handing something,

1548
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:09,200
Speaker 1: the police or whatever, you you don't get involved. You

1549
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:13,120
Speaker 1: stayed uninvolved and let them handle that situation because that's

1550
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:15,960
Speaker 1: what they're supposed to do, and then you react whatever

1551
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:19,519
Speaker 1: they come up with. So, I don't know, it's it's

1552
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 1: a tough question. I've asked myself that many times, and

1553
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:30,080
Speaker 1: I think the at the simple answer would be just

1554
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 1: making sure that students, students both male and female, uh

1555
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 1: know what to do when anything goes wrong and know

1556
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:42,760
Speaker 1: and they understand that they will be protected and they

1557
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:45,560
Speaker 1: will be believed until you know, proving that it's not

1558
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,800
Speaker 1: that way. Be sure to catch live editions about kick

1559
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:51,960
Speaker 1: the Coverage with Clay Travis weekdays at six am Eastern

1560
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 1: three am Pacific talking to our Briles Wins and Losses podcast.

1561
01:19:56,080 --> 01:20:01,639
Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis. So you leave Baylor, you file a lawsuit. Again,

1562
01:20:01,720 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 1: I mentioned that you've got a letter basically saying that

1563
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 1: seems to be in many ways vindication. Why do you

1564
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:10,000
Speaker 1: think that a lot of people who are listening to

1565
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:13,280
Speaker 1: this podcast right now the first time that they will

1566
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 1: hear that that letter exists, or that Baylor has said that,

1567
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:20,720
Speaker 1: you know, they didn't really find any inappropriate behavior in

1568
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:24,479
Speaker 1: your case, involving any of these sexual assault cases. Why

1569
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:26,840
Speaker 1: do you think the first time that many people are

1570
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:30,599
Speaker 1: hearing this is on this podcast, Why do you think

1571
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 1: that isn't hasn't been a story. I think I assumed

1572
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:39,640
Speaker 1: you're a lawyer now since you mentioned the lawyer had

1573
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:43,360
Speaker 1: a couple of times and so yeah, So, I mean,

1574
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. I came to answer that because I

1575
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 1: don't know what what you know, puts it out there.

1576
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,719
Speaker 1: I guess maybe because I didn't hire a big PR

1577
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:55,360
Speaker 1: firm to, you know, to push that out there and

1578
01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 1: get that word out there. Um, you know, I don't

1579
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:01,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I mean, I don't know

1580
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:03,559
Speaker 1: why that wasn't a big deal. It's a big deal

1581
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:07,600
Speaker 1: of me, um, but you know, it's it does not

1582
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 1: seem to be a big deal, you know, to the

1583
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 1: national national media. And that's okay, you know what I mean.

1584
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm not going to try to tell

1585
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 1: somebody else how to do the job. I mean, you

1586
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:20,280
Speaker 1: know you're doing your job. You're doing it, you know,

1587
01:21:20,439 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 1: as you feel the best that you can. And I'm

1588
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:25,559
Speaker 1: not gonna sit here and evaluate you and say, hey, Clay,

1589
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 1: I think you ought to do this a look differently.

1590
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:31,000
Speaker 1: I mean if but for a guy, yeah, sorry to

1591
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,080
Speaker 1: cut you off, but for a guy who you know,

1592
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:36,200
Speaker 1: the coin of your realm when you're a coach is,

1593
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:40,040
Speaker 1: in many ways your loyalty. Right Are you treating people well?

1594
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:42,720
Speaker 1: People find out about that in your business. They talk

1595
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:46,360
Speaker 1: about it. You mentioned earlier Brandon Stewart going to University

1596
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:49,680
Speaker 1: of Tennessee. David Cutcliffe and Phil Former call you and

1597
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:52,040
Speaker 1: they say, hey, man, Peyton mannings coming. We want you

1598
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 1: to know, uh, you know how recruiting works. If high

1599
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:58,280
Speaker 1: school coach hands you one of their best players, they

1600
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:01,200
Speaker 1: want you to treat that kid well. And if you don't,

1601
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:04,280
Speaker 1: eventually that's gonna come back on you because they're gonna say,

1602
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 1: you know what, Dad, mom, grandma, grandpa, I wouldn't send

1603
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:10,200
Speaker 1: my boy to go play for that guy. Obviously, based

1604
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:12,720
Speaker 1: on your history, that does not seem to have been

1605
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:15,800
Speaker 1: an issue with you, Uh, with the success that you

1606
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:18,080
Speaker 1: had at Houston and Balor in Texas Tech and all

1607
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:21,759
Speaker 1: the other high school places. So what does it feel

1608
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:24,639
Speaker 1: like for you though, to go from in two thousand

1609
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 1: and fourteen, the thing people think of when they hear

1610
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:29,880
Speaker 1: our Briles is, man, that guy is an offensive genius.

1611
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:32,800
Speaker 1: He's got a hell of a football program. Two in

1612
01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:36,400
Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen, when your name comes up, the first

1613
01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:39,080
Speaker 1: thing many people think is, oh, that's our Briles. He

1614
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 1: helped to cover up rape so he could win football games.

1615
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 1: I I just I can't imagine what that feels like.

1616
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:49,920
Speaker 1: I just I would I would drive me insane. I mean,

1617
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest with you because not that I would,

1618
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:56,000
Speaker 1: just because in this situation, it seems like you have

1619
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:59,720
Speaker 1: a very good argument to make against that and your reputation,

1620
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:03,200
Speaker 1: and you're sixty four years old. Your reputation has changed

1621
01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:06,760
Speaker 1: and it may not be in a valid way at all. Yeah,

1622
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:10,720
Speaker 1: it's that that's extremely hurtful and painful. I mean, only

1623
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 1: my only defense on that is that I know people

1624
01:23:14,439 --> 01:23:17,640
Speaker 1: that know know and if if, if people want to

1625
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 1: make that assumption, uh, that's just what it is. But

1626
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:23,680
Speaker 1: there's no truth to it at all. Zero, I mean

1627
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:30,200
Speaker 1: absolutely none. And you know, I'm I'm okay with you know,

1628
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:32,720
Speaker 1: what's what's where I'm at in my faith because I'm

1629
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 1: just I'm just a you know, I'm a football coach.

1630
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:37,840
Speaker 1: That's why I went to Italy and coach you know,

1631
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:40,440
Speaker 1: thirteen games last year and then came back in American

1632
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 1: coach thirteen games count SCREMBA. So I coached in ball

1633
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:47,080
Speaker 1: games in twenty nineteen. You know, I'm not sure anybody's

1634
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:49,560
Speaker 1: ever been a head coach through twenty six games in

1635
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,360
Speaker 1: the season anywhere, plus implementing to our offenses, one of

1636
01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:56,840
Speaker 1: them in a foreign language. So you know, I mean

1637
01:23:57,080 --> 01:24:01,040
Speaker 1: it's you know, being known as a as a offensive

1638
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:04,479
Speaker 1: you know, guru or whatever or this culture that coach.

1639
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:07,120
Speaker 1: That's that's that's never been important to me. I mean,

1640
01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 1: what's been important to me is just being in the game,

1641
01:24:10,760 --> 01:24:15,840
Speaker 1: helping kids be successful, seeing success through your eyes into

1642
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:18,519
Speaker 1: theirs and letting them see what they potentially can do

1643
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:22,040
Speaker 1: and help them get there. And then just you know,

1644
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:23,960
Speaker 1: having the game and loving the game. To me, the

1645
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:26,880
Speaker 1: the fun part of the game is it's a preparation.

1646
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:29,599
Speaker 1: It's not fun of the game itself, but it's all

1647
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:33,479
Speaker 1: the work and preparation that goes into the study, the lifting,

1648
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:37,120
Speaker 1: the running, the mental part of the game, which is

1649
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:39,599
Speaker 1: what I learned more from Billy On than anything else.

1650
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:42,880
Speaker 1: Just intellectual part of the game. So that's that's the

1651
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:45,920
Speaker 1: part that that fires me up and keeps me going.

1652
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:48,200
Speaker 1: And that's you know, that's why I'm still doing it today.

1653
01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:52,560
Speaker 1: So you know, I can't change people's opinion of me,

1654
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:59,200
Speaker 1: but people that know no and my my name and

1655
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 1: my reputation, and I hate it for my grandkids, you know,

1656
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:04,360
Speaker 1: that's that's if I can't hurts me more than anything

1657
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:08,680
Speaker 1: else because when they talk about their their granddaddy, and

1658
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:10,599
Speaker 1: I got five of them, you know, I want them

1659
01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:13,599
Speaker 1: not to have to worry about looking over their children.

1660
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:16,080
Speaker 1: And says somebody's whispering, So that that part of it

1661
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:22,559
Speaker 1: is uh is extremely painful. I I can only imagine.

1662
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:26,439
Speaker 1: And uh, some people are gonna listen to this. In fact,

1663
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:28,519
Speaker 1: a lot of people will not listen, right and they

1664
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 1: will hear Oh, Clay Travis talked to our briles, UH

1665
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:35,919
Speaker 1: and they will attack me, right, They'll say, Oh, Clay Travis,

1666
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,760
Speaker 1: he talked to our briles. Look at Clay Travis. He's

1667
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:40,760
Speaker 1: trying to help our briles. That guy. You know, those

1668
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 1: guys are both awful. That's what some people will say.

1669
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:45,320
Speaker 1: And You're not trying to help meet Clay, And I'm

1670
01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:47,439
Speaker 1: not trying to get help, you know, We're just talking.

1671
01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:51,720
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you the great thing about me is that, honestly, uh,

1672
01:25:52,040 --> 01:25:53,840
Speaker 1: this is the first time I've ever talked to you,

1673
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:56,320
Speaker 1: the first time I've ever listened to anything you've ever done.

1674
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:59,320
Speaker 1: So I'm not a social guy and I don't mean

1675
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:02,120
Speaker 1: and I could say that, you know in general. Yeah,

1676
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:05,920
Speaker 1: I'm just not so uh you know, I you know,

1677
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 1: know you do a heck of a job because I

1678
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:10,840
Speaker 1: got a friend that listens to you. Oh think is

1679
01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 1: he tells me you're good. So that's why we're talking.

1680
01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:16,280
Speaker 1: That's why we're talking. We literally have never talked on

1681
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:18,760
Speaker 1: the phone before this interview started, so that I want

1682
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:20,560
Speaker 1: to put that out there. But also this, I just

1683
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:23,680
Speaker 1: want to say one of the challenges that we live

1684
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:26,000
Speaker 1: in in this social media age, and I will bring

1685
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 1: the media in. I asked you a media question. You're

1686
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:30,120
Speaker 1: not a media guy. I am. I will say to

1687
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:33,000
Speaker 1: people who are listening to this right now, there is

1688
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 1: a segment of society that will not only want to

1689
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 1: tar and feather you are briles, which we have seen

1690
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:43,800
Speaker 1: clearly happen based on uh, the situation at Baylor. But

1691
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:47,040
Speaker 1: there are people who will tar and feather me for

1692
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:50,080
Speaker 1: talking to you right like, I guarantee you if you

1693
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:53,200
Speaker 1: just as this thought experiment here go For people who

1694
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:55,920
Speaker 1: are listening, you can google and you will google our

1695
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:58,800
Speaker 1: Brile's Clay Travis after this interview goes up, and there

1696
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:01,800
Speaker 1: will be people who right articles saying Clay Travis is

1697
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:05,599
Speaker 1: an awful human being talking to awful human being are briles?

1698
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:07,880
Speaker 1: Because we live in this era where people want to

1699
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 1: make everybody either a hero or a villain, the greatest

1700
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:13,800
Speaker 1: or the worst. And what's scary to me, and I

1701
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:16,799
Speaker 1: say this are because I think you're We've done stories

1702
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 1: like these before where I look into all the facts

1703
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:21,800
Speaker 1: of the case and I start to say, man, you know,

1704
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:24,960
Speaker 1: the way the media has covered this is not necessarily

1705
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:28,519
Speaker 1: representative for what the facts are that I'm seeing. And

1706
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:31,080
Speaker 1: that is what I think will happen here and that's

1707
01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:33,040
Speaker 1: a little bit scary, right. It's not only that you're

1708
01:27:33,080 --> 01:27:35,599
Speaker 1: getting attacked, it's that there's a lot of media people

1709
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:37,840
Speaker 1: who are afraid to even allow you to tell your

1710
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:41,559
Speaker 1: story because they're worried they're gonna get attacked. Yes, sir,

1711
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:48,200
Speaker 1: well I didn't. I hate that for you, but you know,

1712
01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:50,800
Speaker 1: I just I I said it the first time we've

1713
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:54,479
Speaker 1: ever taked Clay. Uh. But you know, I mean, we're

1714
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:58,160
Speaker 1: just we're just telling truth and talking football. I mean,

1715
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:00,160
Speaker 1: that's that's all I'm about. I mean, if you asked

1716
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 1: me a question, I'm gonna answer it truthfully and and

1717
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:06,800
Speaker 1: go from there. So that's that's just just you know,

1718
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:09,080
Speaker 1: that's just who I am and what I've always been about.

1719
01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 1: So absolutely, yes, sir, I know you're busy. You were

1720
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:15,840
Speaker 1: nervous about talking for very long. I told you were

1721
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:17,479
Speaker 1: going to talk for thirty minutes, and you said you

1722
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:19,639
Speaker 1: didn't think you talked for forty five minutes in your life.

1723
01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 1: So this is, yeah, missing, you're missing a pretty morning

1724
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:27,720
Speaker 1: in Texas. All right, last question for you, what do

1725
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:31,040
Speaker 1: you want going forward? You're sixty four years old. You

1726
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 1: said you coached a bunch of games in Italy in

1727
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:36,720
Speaker 1: a foreign language. You coached in high school football. In

1728
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:40,040
Speaker 1: an ideal world for you, you're younger than Nick Saban,

1729
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:43,120
Speaker 1: You're younger than Bill Belichick. There's a lot of guys

1730
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 1: coaching into their seventies now and having a lot of success.

1731
01:28:47,200 --> 01:28:49,479
Speaker 1: What do you want to happen in football for the

1732
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:52,400
Speaker 1: rest of your life? In an ideal world, if somebody

1733
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:54,840
Speaker 1: get brought you a magic wand and you could wave it,

1734
01:28:55,160 --> 01:28:59,000
Speaker 1: what would you have happen? You know, just when when

1735
01:28:59,040 --> 01:29:01,360
Speaker 1: you first asked the shee without putting football on it,

1736
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:03,680
Speaker 1: the first thing came out was peace. You know, what

1737
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:06,120
Speaker 1: do you want out of the rest of your time?

1738
01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:10,160
Speaker 1: It's just it's just peace. Uh. And then the football

1739
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:13,840
Speaker 1: related one. I don't know, you know, I mean I

1740
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:16,759
Speaker 1: would be I think I would be dishonest with myself

1741
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:19,200
Speaker 1: if I if I said I wouldn't like to be back,

1742
01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:23,000
Speaker 1: you know at the at you know, the collegiate level

1743
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 1: or NFL or any level running running offense. You know,

1744
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:31,960
Speaker 1: it's going in as a position or analyst or something

1745
01:29:32,040 --> 01:29:36,200
Speaker 1: like that. Not really exciting to me other than maybe

1746
01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:39,160
Speaker 1: the opportunity to help, you know, carry the narrative in

1747
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:43,200
Speaker 1: a different direction. Um, just by somebody having faith in

1748
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:46,880
Speaker 1: me and understanding exactly what went on. But you know

1749
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:48,760
Speaker 1: what I want to do is, uh, you know, I

1750
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:50,720
Speaker 1: want to I want to coach a football team. I

1751
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:54,280
Speaker 1: want to run an offense, help with special teams because

1752
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 1: I love special teams. Because everything to me, ever, ever

1753
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:01,920
Speaker 1: snap that ever occurs on the field is football situational

1754
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:05,360
Speaker 1: related to whatever is going on. And there's eighteen factors

1755
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:07,679
Speaker 1: that go on before you ever call the play the offense.

1756
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:10,800
Speaker 1: So you're defensively, you know, before each snap. So that's

1757
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:13,840
Speaker 1: a that's a whole another story. But to answer to

1758
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:17,440
Speaker 1: answer your question, it would be, you know, the opportunity

1759
01:30:17,479 --> 01:30:21,439
Speaker 1: to coach it, you know MC murray University in ablen

1760
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:24,560
Speaker 1: Texas as you know, as the head coach, but to

1761
01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:28,920
Speaker 1: be able to do what we do and let me

1762
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:30,479
Speaker 1: do it. Because if you go in there as a

1763
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:34,519
Speaker 1: position coach or maybe sometimes as a coordinator, you know,

1764
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:37,479
Speaker 1: you always got somebody looking at you and and kind

1765
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 1: of trying to get involved what's going on. So that's

1766
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:41,880
Speaker 1: that's why I'm happy where I'm at in high school

1767
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:45,120
Speaker 1: right now, because you know, I'm calling the plays, running

1768
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:48,000
Speaker 1: the running of the offense, and we're doing stuff that

1769
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:51,200
Speaker 1: other people probably wouldn't do because they'd be afraid of

1770
01:30:51,280 --> 01:30:55,679
Speaker 1: the scrutiny, you know, with the philosophical and personality uses

1771
01:30:55,760 --> 01:30:57,920
Speaker 1: that we do. And uh, I'm not worried about that

1772
01:30:58,080 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 1: because I'm doing what we feel like. There's our guys,

1773
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:05,120
Speaker 1: the best opportunity to win our Briles. I can legitimately say,

1774
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:07,680
Speaker 1: this is the most interesting conversation I've ever had with

1775
01:31:07,800 --> 01:31:12,439
Speaker 1: a man that I never talked to before. That's you've

1776
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:16,240
Speaker 1: never talked to anybody else, be for the first time,

1777
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:19,720
Speaker 1: So this is it. But no, I appreciate you, and um,

1778
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:23,479
Speaker 1: I appreciate your love for the game. Thank you are Briles.

1779
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 1: Appreciate all of you. That's been the Wins and Losses Podcast.

1780
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:28,280
Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed it,

1781
01:31:28,320 --> 01:31:30,720
Speaker 1: subscribe and go check out some of our other long

1782
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:34,200
Speaker 1: form conversations as we talk wins and losses of life

1783
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:36,599
Speaker 1: with people from a variety of fields. Thanks for listening.

1784
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:37,120
Speaker 1: M