Speaker 1: The word healthy to everyone is a great word. Everyone
Speaker 1: wants to be healthy. But for me, when someone says
Speaker 1: that I work healthy, it makes me want to spiral.
Speaker 2: The best selling authoring post the number one healthy wellness
Speaker 2: podcast On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Everyone, welcome back to
Speaker 2: On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in
Speaker 2: the world. Thanks to each and every one of you
Speaker 2: that come back every week to become happier, healthier and
Speaker 2: more healed. And it's been an incredible journey this year.
Speaker 2: So far. We've had some phenomenal guests, so many different backgrounds,
Speaker 2: so many different walks of life. And today's guest is
Speaker 2: someone I'm really excited to have here. I've been looking
Speaker 2: forward to this interview for a long long time. I'm
Speaker 2: sitting down today with the one and only Neessa Barrett,
Speaker 2: a singer and songwriter who's been named Billboard's twenty one
Speaker 2: Under twenty one twice, as well as being featured on
Speaker 2: Once to Watch list of twenty five artists to Watch
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two. From being an emerging artist to
Speaker 2: being an established incredible Todaynessa's gone on to accumulate more
Speaker 2: than one point four billion global streams to date. And
Speaker 2: her new EP is out now called Hell is a
Speaker 2: Teenage Girl. Please, welcome to the show. Nessa barrett Essa,
Speaker 2: thank you for.
Speaker 3: Being here, Hell, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: You have such a wonderful, warm, sweet energy. As soon
Speaker 2: as you walked in, you were just disarming. It was wonderful.
Speaker 2: Just I really appreciate that. Thank you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: And I saw that it's going to be your birthday,
Speaker 2: your twenty first birthday, in like less than three weeks.
Speaker 2: Your new EP is titled Hell is a Teenage Girl. Yes,
Speaker 2: how does it feel to be out of Hell?
Speaker 3: Oh? My god, it feels amazing.
Speaker 1: Honestly, when I think about it, I feel like sometimes
Speaker 1: you're never fully away from hell in the bad moments,
Speaker 1: but I'm getting there slowly. I feel like healing is
Speaker 1: like a really long journey. But yeah, I mean getting
Speaker 1: out of the hell that I was in the past
Speaker 1: feels great.
Speaker 2: What do you think it is about teenage life? Because
Speaker 2: that statement hell is a teenage Girl is so iconic
Speaker 2: and it's so powerful as well. And I think we
Speaker 2: underestimate how hard being a teenager is, and as we
Speaker 2: get older, I think we underestimate even more. But when
Speaker 2: you're in that time, it can feel like everything matters,
Speaker 2: nothing matters. It's quite chaotic. Walk us through for you,
Speaker 2: like what makes being a teenager so hard or what
Speaker 2: makes being young so difficult today?
Speaker 1: I know for me, my worst years were I mean
Speaker 1: the last twenty that I've spent and most of them
Speaker 1: were when I was a teenager. And I feel like
Speaker 1: when you're still developing and you don't really have a.
Speaker 3: Full sense of who you are yet.
Speaker 1: I mean, when you're a kid, you're taken you know,
Speaker 1: and treated as a kid, and I feel like that's
Speaker 1: hard as well, trying to grow up and find yourself
Speaker 1: and be your own well, being influenced heavily by either
Speaker 1: your parents or those that are around you and older
Speaker 1: that are supposed to, you know, give you some guidance.
Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes it gets tricky and you get misunderstood.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's not all sunshine and rainbow, you know,
Speaker 1: when you're young. Everyone likes to talk about childhood like
Speaker 1: it's this beautiful thing, but for me personally, it wasn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I can relate to in so many
Speaker 2: ways for myself. I think hell as a teenage boy too,
Speaker 2: And I remember being like teacher's pet. Until age eleven,
Speaker 2: I was really well behaved. I was a good son
Speaker 2: all the rest of it, and then like from fourteen
Speaker 2: to eighteen, I just went completely off the rails and
Speaker 2: I was messing around, trying things, experimenting, doing stuff that
Speaker 2: wouldn't make my parents proud. And it's really interesting because
Speaker 2: it just came out of this need to want to
Speaker 2: fit in, to be cool, to be relevant, to want
Speaker 2: people to respect me, and you end up doing things
Speaker 2: that are disrespectful to yourself for other people to like you.
Speaker 2: And it's crazy. You just mentioned now though, that when
Speaker 2: I asked you just before we started filming, you said
Speaker 2: you actually ran away from home when you were seventeen. Yes,
Speaker 2: what made you do that? Like? What did it take
Speaker 2: for that to happen?
Speaker 1: So I feel like I've always had like this big ambition,
Speaker 1: in this big dream in my head of what I
Speaker 1: want to do as a career. You know, I always
Speaker 1: dreamt about being in California, dreamt about being a singer,
Speaker 1: you know, a huge artist, and that wasn't something that
Speaker 1: was understood or at least, you know, seen as possible
Speaker 1: in the town that I came from, and my family,
Speaker 1: and it was right as COVID hit, and I knew
Speaker 1: that I was either trapped and stuck there and forced
Speaker 1: to have to go to college and you know, create
Speaker 1: a life that I knew wasn't for me, or I
Speaker 1: would just do it for myself. And you know, if
Speaker 1: I didn't leave, then then I wouldn't be there like
Speaker 1: here where I am now, and so it was really weird.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I wasn't happy at home. I wasn't happy
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, and I felt in my heart that
Speaker 1: there was something that I had to do. And I
Speaker 1: booked a flight at like one am that left for
Speaker 1: like four am.
Speaker 3: Knew that I was gonna run away, and.
Speaker 1: It was like this big chaos they had, Like the
Speaker 1: cops come and it was like this whole thing, and
Speaker 1: so they stole and they took all of my suitcases,
Speaker 1: everything that I could use to leave, and so I
Speaker 1: found I locked my door, and I found like all
Speaker 1: of my old like school book bags and my soccer bags.
Speaker 3: Because I used to play soccer.
Speaker 1: And I stuffed all of my things in like these
Speaker 1: Duffel bags and like school bags, and I'm lugging around
Speaker 1: like and I'm small. I'm like seventeen, like four foot eleven,
Speaker 1: like lugging around these huge bags, and I got an
Speaker 1: uber and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got on the flight and I've been here since.
Speaker 2: So that's been nearly four years now. That's insane. I mean,
Speaker 2: how did you, as a seventeen year old have the
Speaker 2: confidence and courage to go, No, I'm going to go
Speaker 2: all in on this. I'm gonna because that's you know,
Speaker 2: I think a lot of young people today, a lot
Speaker 2: of people listening, they want to take risks. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: they want to try things out, they want to follow
Speaker 2: their passion, they want to pursue something that's of theirs.
Speaker 2: But I think most of us get talked out of it,
Speaker 2: or the doubt and the fear creeps in in our
Speaker 2: head of what if I don't make it, what if
Speaker 2: it doesn't work out? What was it for you that
Speaker 2: allowed you to say no, I'm actually going to have
Speaker 2: the courage and the confidence at seventeen, I.
Speaker 1: Still am not the type of person and I never
Speaker 1: was to take a.
Speaker 3: Risk like that. I struggle with.
Speaker 1: Really bad anxiety, and I as a kid, like I
Speaker 1: did everything that I was told, you know, I would
Speaker 1: never I would follow the rules to a tee and
Speaker 1: something like that was absolutely insane, and looking back on
Speaker 1: it now, I feel like there was something out of
Speaker 1: this world that kind of took like a toll on me.
Speaker 3: Like it was a.
Speaker 1: Pretty like I don't even know how to explain it,
Speaker 1: but I just knew that I.
Speaker 3: Had to and I was scared. I was terrified.
Speaker 1: I remember I had there's no NonStop from Philly to
Speaker 1: LA at that time, and so I stopped somewhere and
Speaker 1: on like my connecting flight. I was freaking out, like
Speaker 1: having a pin attack. But yeah, I just kept going.
Speaker 1: But it was it was something that was very like
Speaker 1: unlike me, and so I feel like I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's like my higher power anything like that, and
Speaker 1: I just knew that I was that was something that.
Speaker 3: I had to do.
Speaker 2: You know, how did you have the money?
Speaker 3: Thank God?
Speaker 1: So I before I was in La. I actually this
Speaker 1: is like such a weird story, but I started off
Speaker 1: on social media. I feel like a lot of people
Speaker 1: know me as a social media person, even though that
Speaker 1: wasn't something that I intended to be. I have social anxiety,
Speaker 1: so I feel like me being a social media star
Speaker 1: isn't something that you know fits the most with me,
Speaker 1: and something that I would ever want to do. But
Speaker 1: when social media like Instagram and TikTok became popular apps
Speaker 1: when I was young, I never wanted to go on it.
Speaker 1: And I remember being in high school, like during lunch,
Speaker 1: and a bunch of my friends had it and they
Speaker 1: made me make an account and post a video, and
Speaker 1: I made one video and I happened to accumulate a
Speaker 1: bunch of followers off of that without me even you know,
Speaker 1: trying to be an influencer. I was just being a
Speaker 1: random teenage girl posting as if any other girl would
Speaker 1: on social media.
Speaker 3: And I gained a.
Speaker 1: Lot of followers for that, and it was really cool
Speaker 1: and it was awesome.
Speaker 3: And I had no money.
Speaker 1: No one in my family had money to just buy
Speaker 1: a flight whenever they wanted, let alone live in California,
Speaker 1: or be able to get into like a music studio,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I honestly think I was truly
Speaker 1: blessed with that opportunity, because I wouldn't still be able
Speaker 1: to leave and do what I've always wanted to do
Speaker 1: and like sing, if I couldn't have the money first
Speaker 1: and even the audience. It allowed me to you know,
Speaker 1: go to LA and to get in a studio, and
Speaker 1: by the time I even had my first song out,
Speaker 1: people already knew who I was.
Speaker 2: So that's incredible. That's incredible. What was your going backward?
Speaker 2: If you could think of a couple of memories from
Speaker 2: your childhood that you feel made you really find it
Speaker 2: to be so tough for your teenage life to be
Speaker 2: so challenging. What would those memories for you that you
Speaker 2: think spurred this desire to leave and build your own
Speaker 2: life and create and kind of follow that higher power?
Speaker 2: As you said, what were those things that happened to
Speaker 2: you specifically that you think were dark and hellish in
Speaker 2: that sense?
Speaker 1: Growing up, it was very hard for me to have friends.
Speaker 1: I struggled a lot in school and with people my age.
Speaker 1: You know, I was someone that was never really fit in,
Speaker 1: someone no one really understood, left out of a lot of things,
Speaker 1: bullied to an extent, And I feel like that also
Speaker 1: drove me to want to become better. And I believed
Speaker 1: my entire life just being a good person that will
Speaker 1: pay off. I feel like luckily it did. But even
Speaker 1: you know, my home life wasn't the best and seeing
Speaker 1: my parents struggle with you know, financially and within themselves
Speaker 1: and with each other. I feel like that really strove
Speaker 1: me to want to have a better life than what
Speaker 1: anyone in my family had.
Speaker 3: But it was really hard growing up.
Speaker 1: And I'm at a place now where I love my
Speaker 1: parents so much, which came, you know, after a lot
Speaker 1: of healing. But I just saw a lot, and I
Speaker 1: just knew that I wanted to be better than what
Speaker 1: I saw and I wanted to do better. And also too,
Speaker 1: it's like where I'm from. I'm from a small town,
Speaker 1: a nine to five job and going to college, and
Speaker 1: that wasn't something that was for me, something that I desired,
Speaker 1: something that I was ever interested in. I remember junior year,
Speaker 1: I got in trouble because I refused to apply to
Speaker 1: any colleges. You know, I knew that I had to
Speaker 1: do something different.
Speaker 2: Was it you that rekindled your relationship with the parents
Speaker 2: or was it then? Like, how did that come about?
Speaker 2: Because that's really wonderful to hear when that can happen.
Speaker 2: It's not possible for everyone, but yeah, how did that stop?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, I've always had a rocky relationship with my parents,
Speaker 1: but my mom, she's always my mom, and I loved
Speaker 1: her dearly and I always will, and so we've always
Speaker 1: had somewhat of a relationship, even when I ran away,
Speaker 1: which at the time me and my parents, we were
Speaker 1: not okay at all, which is why I ran away.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I started doing hypnotherapy maybe a little over
Speaker 1: a year ago, if not a year ago, and that
Speaker 1: has been the one thing that has truly been life
Speaker 1: changing and changed who I am as a person, because
Speaker 1: the whole idea of it is that it reaches down
Speaker 1: in your subconscious and that's where all of your trauma
Speaker 1: is stored, you know, even things that you don't remember.
Speaker 1: And we worked through everything that has affected me to
Speaker 1: this day that I couldn't even tell you, you know,
Speaker 1: that we were able to bring out.
Speaker 3: And because of.
Speaker 1: That, I I've been able to talk to my dad
Speaker 1: that I didn't for years and haven't since I ran away.
Speaker 1: I recently just visited them and went home for the
Speaker 1: first time last week for the July. I saw my
Speaker 1: little brother that I haven't even met yet because he
Speaker 1: was born a year ago. It's been really good. I
Speaker 1: feel like because of how I grew up and because
Speaker 1: of my childhood, I've been very independent and I've been
Speaker 1: that type of person that was like I'm going to
Speaker 1: do everything myself and I don't need anyone. I never
Speaker 1: needed anyone, but you know, coming out here by myself
Speaker 1: at seventeen, being in this industry and having to do
Speaker 1: a lot, which does put a toll on you mentally
Speaker 1: and physically, and also seeing people that are doing the
Speaker 1: same thing as me around my age having a family
Speaker 1: with them. At a certain point, I kind of realized
Speaker 1: how much family is important, no matter what you know,
Speaker 1: no matter how bad things have gotten in the past,
Speaker 1: family still family. And I've kind of prioritized that recently,
Speaker 1: and I mean, I wouldn't be able to do it
Speaker 1: with therapy, but it's been really nice to have a
Speaker 1: relationship that I now have that I probably never had
Speaker 1: with them my entire life.
Speaker 2: That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that, and it's so
Speaker 2: so wonderful to hear that you've been able to reconnect
Speaker 2: in that way. What do you think has been the
Speaker 2: hardest thing about coming out here on your own figuring
Speaker 2: it out, Like, what's been the biggest challenge with Hollywood,
Speaker 2: the music industry, this industry, as you mentioned, Like, what's
Speaker 2: been the most difficult obstacle that you think you've had
Speaker 2: to face.
Speaker 3: I think loneliness.
Speaker 1: It's so weird how I would assume that some people,
Speaker 1: you know, that see me and see all that I've
Speaker 1: accomplished and all the people that listen to my music
Speaker 1: and follow me, they would think that that's something that
Speaker 1: I wouldn't struggle with. But it kind of makes me
Speaker 1: feel lonelier in a way. When I go on tour
Speaker 1: per se and I perform in front of thousands of people,
Speaker 1: and I get off stage and I go back into
Speaker 1: a hotel room by myself, There's not a single thing
Speaker 1: that could explain how empty and lonely that feels, you know,
Speaker 1: being in front of so many people that love you
Speaker 1: and that you're connecting with through music and then just
Speaker 1: going back to have absolutely no one, you know, no
Speaker 1: one to talk to about it. Yeah, it's sad, and
Speaker 1: I deal with things daily, you know, all the time,
Speaker 1: and sometimes I don't have the people that I can
Speaker 1: just you know, call, like my mom. You know, I
Speaker 1: can't just have my mom that comes here and she
Speaker 1: can like tell me everything's going to be okay.
Speaker 3: And it does get scary.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I've always been very mature for
Speaker 1: my age, but since being here, I've matured a lot,
Speaker 1: having to deal with certain things in the industry, but
Speaker 1: still at the same time, I feel like I'm still
Speaker 1: a kid at heart.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I just am only about turn twenty one, which is
Speaker 1: crazy to think about. But I don't know, I feel
Speaker 1: like loneliness is some that I struggle with, and it's
Speaker 1: very hard, especially in LA and Hollywood in the industry,
Speaker 1: to find the right people that you can really trust
Speaker 1: and count on. I feel like I'm even lucky enough
Speaker 1: to say that I found like probably four, you know,
Speaker 1: the entire time I've been here, But you never know
Speaker 1: what people's intentions are, and not everyone has the same
Speaker 1: heart as you, which I feel like I struggle with
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so interesting how artists, I feel for years
Speaker 2: have struggled with being on the road alone. And this
Speaker 2: year I got a glimpse for my first time because
Speaker 2: I just went on a world tour. I'd never done
Speaker 2: it before. I'm obviously a lot older than you, and
Speaker 2: I was traveling from February first till up about up
Speaker 2: until about two three weeks ago when I got home,
Speaker 2: and that was the longest I've ever been on the road,
Speaker 2: and I just sat there and just thought about all
Speaker 2: my clients or friends that I have, we are musicians
Speaker 2: and people that I work with, and I was just
Speaker 2: sitting there thinking about how hard this would be if
Speaker 2: I started doing this when I was fifteen or sixteen
Speaker 2: or seventeen or twenty. And I can totally see why
Speaker 2: it's so challenging, But it feels like no one's really
Speaker 2: found a way to make it easier, which is why
Speaker 2: you still see artists after all this time canceling tours
Speaker 2: and announcing that they need a break. And it's do
Speaker 2: you now see that as natural that it is hard
Speaker 2: or do you sometimes still sometimes fall into the trap
Speaker 2: of like, oh, it's a weakness or it's something about you,
Speaker 2: or are you able to accept that this is just hard
Speaker 2: to do, because I think some people kind of go
Speaker 2: back and forth. They feel guilty that they find it
Speaker 2: that challenging.
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like it has to be hard.
Speaker 1: With all the amazing things that I've been blessed with
Speaker 1: doing what I do, like, there has to be things
Speaker 1: that have to be difficult, you know, And I don't mind,
Speaker 1: you know, struggling, because it gives me something to talk about,
Speaker 1: to write about.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the whole.
Speaker 1: That's what my whole music and everything that I'm about
Speaker 1: is focused on, is you know, the things that I
Speaker 1: struggle with, and I talk about them so that I
Speaker 1: can help people in a way. It's hard, but I
Speaker 1: feel like i'd rather deal with this, you know, and
Speaker 1: the struggles that come with this, then you know, having
Speaker 1: to do something that I don't love and you know,
Speaker 1: be unhappy with my life.
Speaker 2: I think that's a great mindset. That's incredible that you've
Speaker 2: been able to grasp that idea so young. I think
Speaker 2: that idea and I just want to repeat it for
Speaker 2: everyone who's listening because it's really powerful. You just said
Speaker 2: that the life you've chosen, it comes with stresses and
Speaker 2: challenges and issues, but you'd rather choose that life because
Speaker 2: it connects you to something you love than the other life,
Speaker 2: which sometimes we think like there's a path that has
Speaker 2: stress and there's a path that won't have any and
Speaker 2: that's just not true, Like both of them have it.
Speaker 2: Whether you follow your dreams or you don't follow your dreams,
Speaker 2: there'll be stressed on both parts, and it's about choosing
Speaker 2: which one you'd rather have. So it's incredible that you've
Speaker 2: grasped that idea. I know that you struggle with an
Speaker 2: ERECTIONI in the past, and then you had a relapse
Speaker 2: during your tour as well, and I can't imagine just
Speaker 2: how challenging that is during a tour to have that
Speaker 2: experience again. Can you walk us through your relationship with
Speaker 2: it and how you've been able to try and navigate
Speaker 2: it and still continue to pour out into your music
Speaker 2: and connect with your fans. And you show up today
Speaker 2: to talk about your experience. It's not easy to do that.
Speaker 2: How have you done that?
Speaker 1: I talk a lot about mental health because that's been
Speaker 1: something that I've struggled with since I was six and
Speaker 1: my entire life I've never really known or had a
Speaker 1: figure that has made me feel like I'm understood and
Speaker 1: not alone when it comes to things like that, And
Speaker 1: I feel like, fortunately now it's not as taboo as
Speaker 1: it's always been. But I feel like for the past
Speaker 1: almost two years now, in arexia has been one of
Speaker 1: my biggest mental health struggles, and I have made a
Speaker 1: song about it before, but I made that song when
Speaker 1: I was recovered at the time, so I wasn't dealing
Speaker 1: with it as hard. But an eating disorder is something
Speaker 1: that's very personal and very hard to even articulate yourself
Speaker 1: because it takes over your mind and it's very different
Speaker 1: for everyone else. And sometimes I shy away from talking
Speaker 1: about it because I'm either embarrassed or I don't want
Speaker 1: to admit that I'm struggling at the time because it's
Speaker 1: a very toxic disorder, or it's very hard to talk
Speaker 1: about it and not be triggering to others, which gets difficult,
Speaker 1: and I still deal with it pretty bad to this day.
Speaker 1: I've been in talks about, you know, getting treatment and
Speaker 1: hopefully seeing someone and finally getting help, because as much
Speaker 1: as I try to take time to focus on mental health,
Speaker 1: when you really need intensive treatment for something and you know,
Speaker 1: to go away for three weeks, it's not that easy
Speaker 1: when you're trying to write an album, you know, and tour.
Speaker 1: Dealing with it on the road, though, was pretty hard.
Speaker 1: When I'm at home in La I live by myself,
Speaker 1: and the only time I don't go out, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't really I'm not that much of a social person,
Speaker 1: so the only time I leave my house is when
Speaker 1: I go to the studio and I make music.
Speaker 3: So being alone, I.
Speaker 1: Feel like it's it's hard to struggle with inarexia, but
Speaker 1: it's easier because I'm alone and I don't have to,
Speaker 1: you know, deal with anyone around me or any triggers
Speaker 1: and things like that. But being on tour, you know,
Speaker 1: constantly being around a group of people where it is
Speaker 1: normal for people to eat, that's a thing that has
Speaker 1: to be done, you know, order to live. So to
Speaker 1: be around people that are actually that don't struggle with
Speaker 1: it and are taking care of their bodies and that
Speaker 1: don't have to deal with body image. And then me
Speaker 1: also having to get on stage in front of people
Speaker 1: every night where it's like people are there to see me,
Speaker 1: not only like the people that come to my shows,
Speaker 1: but everyone else gets to see them because people post videos.
Speaker 1: You know, there's pictures and videos taken at every angle.
Speaker 1: And no matter how much I feel safe and at
Speaker 1: home on stage, you know, performing my songs and being
Speaker 1: with everyone that relates to them, in the back of
Speaker 1: my head when I'm struggling with my interrexta, all I
Speaker 1: can think about is how insecure I am and how
Speaker 1: I might look and what people might say or think.
Speaker 1: And I've had a lot of pretty dark breakdown moments
Speaker 1: before stage where I couldn't even see how I could
Speaker 1: get on because I couldn't even figure out what to where,
Speaker 1: you know, that would make me feel comfortable. And when
Speaker 1: you're on the road for how many weeks or months,
Speaker 1: you don't have a huge option to you know, to
Speaker 1: wear whatever you want, like your stage outfits are your
Speaker 1: stage outfits. The biggest struggle, I think is just the
Speaker 1: physicality part of it. Scientifically, to be able to get
Speaker 1: on stage and have the energy to perform for you know,
Speaker 1: over an.
Speaker 3: Hour every night.
Speaker 1: You have to have energy, and energy comes with eating
Speaker 1: and food. And that was something that I struggled with
Speaker 1: because touring and you know, my music and all this
Speaker 1: is so important to me and it's really hard to
Speaker 1: not let my eating disorder get in the way of that.
Speaker 1: And so I would have to no matter how hard
Speaker 1: it was, but try and sit is however long it
Speaker 1: takes me and force myself to eat. That way, I could,
Speaker 1: you know, get up on stage the next night without
Speaker 1: being too tired or god forbid, passing out and you know,
Speaker 1: not having the energy that they came for, you know,
Speaker 1: because that's what it's important. And mentally too, It's like
Speaker 1: when I'm at a really low point and struggling and
Speaker 1: not eating for a while. I'm not my best self,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not giving off that energy that makes
Speaker 1: people feel good around me, and I think that's kind
Speaker 1: of the saddest part about it. You know, I want
Speaker 1: to be my best self always, and so it's hard
Speaker 1: trying to find a balance, you know, and figuring out
Speaker 1: ways to help you but also not make things harder,
Speaker 1: because the recovery process with inarexxia is probably the hardest
Speaker 1: thing that I've ever dealt with my entire life. Like
Speaker 1: I've been through intensive I'm a therapy with hypno for
Speaker 1: my BPD, but you know, just trying to figure out
Speaker 1: how to have a comfortable relationship with food itself is
Speaker 1: something that has been one of the hardest and scariest
Speaker 1: things that I've ever done my entire twenty years of living.
Speaker 1: Which is hard to also do that, you know, during
Speaker 1: this time of my life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for being so vulnerable and open. I
Speaker 2: really appreciate it, because you know, that's what I'm trying
Speaker 2: to create here is a safe space where people can
Speaker 2: actually be seen and heard yourself, and then everyone who's listening,
Speaker 2: who's either struggling with something similar or may love someone
Speaker 2: who's going through something like this. I can definitely testify
Speaker 2: that getting on stage without a eating disorder is hard
Speaker 2: enough in and of itself, and so having that extra
Speaker 2: layer of worrying and being concerned and even the energy,
Speaker 2: as you were saying about even having the energy to perform.
Speaker 2: I remember just before I was go on stage, like
Speaker 2: being present. I remember how much presence I needed. I
Speaker 2: also sleep really early, so to go on to stage
Speaker 2: at eight pm, I'm like, it's coming over my bedtime
Speaker 2: in two hours. Like, how am I going to stay
Speaker 2: up without pumping my body with sugar or anything else?
Speaker 2: I want to stay up naturally, and that's without any
Speaker 2: of the stuff you're having to think about. So I'm
Speaker 2: just empathizing and listening into what that challenge looks like.
Speaker 2: What would you like people to know about anorexia so
Speaker 2: that they're aware, because I feel that a lot of
Speaker 2: the times these terms get normalized and we hear them everywhere,
Speaker 2: but then we kind of become desensitized to it, and
Speaker 2: people aren't necessarily aware of how to deal with their
Speaker 2: friend who's going through it, or sometimes someone's kids going
Speaker 2: through it. From your experience, not as like it's the
Speaker 2: same experience for everyone, because we know it's not from
Speaker 2: your experience. What do you think it's good for people
Speaker 2: to know if someone they love or someone they know
Speaker 2: is going through something like this or they think they
Speaker 2: might be, what would be useful for them.
Speaker 1: I think the first and biggest thing is that not
Speaker 1: only with just anorexia, but with all eating disorders, it
Speaker 1: looks different on everyone. There's not a look to it,
Speaker 1: and I feel like it's so damaging when there's a
Speaker 1: common idea or image, you know, of how someone that
Speaker 1: is innorexic should look or how someone that struggles with
Speaker 1: an eating disorder should look, and they kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: take that as to how sick they are, which, uh,
Speaker 1: that doesn't matter at all. And I also feel like
Speaker 1: it's something that you know, but just it's impossible to
Speaker 1: understand something like inarexxia if you have not gone through
Speaker 1: it before.
Speaker 3: Because I mean to.
Speaker 1: Even with me just saying what I struggle without loud,
Speaker 1: and the whole idea of that me being obsessive and
Speaker 1: scared over food and obsessive with calories and terrifiedive weight.
Speaker 3: Gain and a control thing, and all the.
Speaker 1: Things that I allow myself to believe, which they're all lies,
Speaker 1: and how my brain processes things and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: I know that it's not real, and I know that
Speaker 1: it's all lies, you know, and I know it's absolutely delusional,
Speaker 1: but that's still that's the disorder, that's what happens. And
Speaker 1: so when you don't struggle with that, you don't understand that,
Speaker 1: you know. So I have a lot of people that
Speaker 1: you know, I've told me before, you know, just eat,
Speaker 1: you know, or like people will say things that they
Speaker 1: think will help, but that's not that's not the issue,
Speaker 1: you know. I think most importantly is just to you know,
Speaker 1: with any mental health disorder or anything like that, just
Speaker 1: the best thing to do for someone is to just
Speaker 1: give them love and support. Sometimes it's best not to
Speaker 1: try too hard to give advice or to say things
Speaker 1: that you think are going to help, because there are
Speaker 1: some things that you know, you know, might seem helpful
Speaker 1: and that you might have good intentions by saying, but
Speaker 1: it might trigger someone you know, it's dealing with it.
Speaker 1: For example, I know for me, and I feel like
Speaker 1: it might be a common thing for a lot of
Speaker 1: people that struggle with Inorexiah, the word healthy to everyone
Speaker 1: is a great word, you know, it's a positive word.
Speaker 1: Everyone wants to be healthy. But for me, when someone
Speaker 1: says that I look healthy, it makes me want to spiral,
Speaker 1: you know, it makes me go crazy because that's not
Speaker 1: a word that you know, healthy to me, I associate
Speaker 1: with something that you know is not the best because unfortunately,
Speaker 1: in my brain, being called sick is something that, in
Speaker 1: a terrible and ugly way is something that comforts me
Speaker 1: more than the word healthy, which little things like that,
Speaker 1: I feel like is important for people to know that
Speaker 1: want to be there for someone that don't you know, understand,
Speaker 1: it's like, just have to be wise and not walk
Speaker 1: on shelves, but just be more sympathetic and understanding of
Speaker 1: what they could possibly be going through even though you
Speaker 1: don't understand.
Speaker 3: It's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, something to this day that I still don't understand
Speaker 1: or get or I kind of struggle with even coming
Speaker 1: to terms with the fact that I deal with it,
Speaker 1: because I am now at the point where I'm aware
Speaker 1: of how unhealthy it is, but I still can't process,
Speaker 1: you know, that it really isn't real because I still
Speaker 1: have that eating disorder mind, you know. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: think just being supportive and loving and dealing with it
Speaker 1: with grace and patience. I feel like that's a big thing.
Speaker 1: Everyone wants who they love to be better and the
Speaker 1: best that they can be and healthy and to get
Speaker 1: help when they need it. But I think sometimes people
Speaker 1: forget the fact that getting help and recover is something
Speaker 1: that's very linear. I'm not linear. It's a long process,
Speaker 1: you know, and it takes time and something like this.
Speaker 1: I mean I've been rushed into recovery before, which led
Speaker 1: me into a pretty terrible relapse.
Speaker 3: You know, it takes time.
Speaker 1: So you just have to be patient with people that
Speaker 1: are struggling and just give them as much love as
Speaker 1: you can. I feel like love goes a long way.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think for what it's worth, your awareness
Speaker 2: and how eloquent you are in explaining at least what
Speaker 2: you're experiencing is really admirable. Honestly, Like just hearing you
Speaker 2: talk about it and reflect on it. Your awareness is
Speaker 2: so high, which is an incredible step in your journey.
Speaker 2: And I think the advice you gave or the insight
Speaker 2: you gave is really useful because I think when we
Speaker 2: love someone, we think we have to solve their problems,
Speaker 2: and we think we have to say the perfect thing,
Speaker 2: and we think we can fix it, and you're so
Speaker 2: right that actually what we need to do is be
Speaker 2: patient and supportive and loving and kind and just be
Speaker 2: there and we don't have to say the perfect thing,
Speaker 2: and we don't have to have the perfect advice because
Speaker 2: we don't know what it feels like. And I think
Speaker 2: that that's really useful for people to hear, because we
Speaker 2: think we're useless if we can't fix someone's problems and
Speaker 2: we love them, and that person doesn't think you're useless.
Speaker 2: That person actually prefers if they just know you're.
Speaker 3: There and you don't have.
Speaker 2: To have the solution. One thing I loved when our
Speaker 2: teams first started talking about us setting down was your
Speaker 2: eight Stages of a breakup, your new music. And I
Speaker 2: wrote a book called Eight Rules of Love, and so
Speaker 2: when that came up, I was like, how I wrote
Speaker 2: a book about love this year, which is why I
Speaker 2: was on tour, And you've wrote, you've written music, you know,
Speaker 2: and I know on TikTok, I've been watching your videos
Speaker 2: of each stage in each part, and I find that
Speaker 2: you know, you've had two public breakups. It's never easy.
Speaker 2: Could you walk us through what you find is different
Speaker 2: between a public breakup and a private breakup because I
Speaker 2: almost feel like we don't really grasp that again until
Speaker 2: you've lived it. Oh and I'm guessing you had breakups
Speaker 2: previously that were not public. Potentially the difference is, like,
Speaker 2: what do you notice?
Speaker 1: Breakups in general just absolutely the worst. Yeah, hard, even
Speaker 1: though I feel like they are very critical experiences that
Speaker 1: you have to go through in life in order to grow,
Speaker 1: they suck. But a public breakup, man, I it's just
Speaker 1: the fact that it's not you know, just your close
Speaker 1: relatives and friends that know about you and your relationship.
Speaker 3: It's probably millions of people that have kept up to.
Speaker 1: Date with you know, your relationship, and I've been so
Speaker 1: invested and very like fixated on it. And even when
Speaker 1: it comes to the media today, anything that happens, even
Speaker 1: when it's not a breakup drama is entertainment.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: People love to talk, people love to speculate, and so
Speaker 1: dealing with public breakups, I feel like all the drama
Speaker 1: that has to come with it, which I feel like
Speaker 1: is very unnecessary and causes a lot more pain and
Speaker 1: hurt to the people that are actually going through it.
Speaker 3: You know, that doesn't help.
Speaker 1: But it's like when I'm dealing with the grief of
Speaker 1: a relationship and losing someone that I loved so dearly,
Speaker 1: and then also on top of that, having to do
Speaker 1: with hundreds of thousands of people talking about it as well,
Speaker 1: saying things that aren't true, you know, saying things that
Speaker 1: are hurtful, putting their two cents in it, being very
Speaker 1: insensitive towards the whole thing, you know, not really understanding
Speaker 1: because people don't understand that, you know, people in the
Speaker 1: public I could possibly be, you know, actually human with
Speaker 1: actual lives and like emotions when they see whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: I let them on to see because I, you know,
Speaker 1: am like a public figure. I feel like they kind
Speaker 1: of take that as oh, this is that's her life,
Speaker 1: you know, that's all that they are but buying closed doors.
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm I deal with it, you know, the
Speaker 1: depth of life as just as anyone else would. And
Speaker 1: so a relationship and a breakup for me is just
Speaker 1: as real as love is for anyone else, and I
Speaker 1: feel like.
Speaker 3: People forget that.
Speaker 1: So I feel like that's hard with having to deal
Speaker 1: with everyone's opinions and comments and all the stuff that
Speaker 1: comes with that. But as well as NonStop, constantly seeing
Speaker 1: you know, pictures or videos and videos like you know,
Speaker 1: just anything about me and my past relationship and like
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. I feel like when you know,
Speaker 1: growing up in high school, when I first had my
Speaker 1: boyfriend and everyone started getting in like relationships, like it
Speaker 1: was like a rule, Like when you break up with someone,
Speaker 1: like you delete their number, like you on follow them
Speaker 1: on Instagram, Like you don't look at them, you don't
Speaker 1: talk to them, like you don't hang out with them.
Speaker 1: Like it's like a out of sight, out of mind
Speaker 1: type thing. You know, it helps you get You need
Speaker 1: that period where it's like they're gone, you know, and
Speaker 1: you can get over them easier. Well, like it's impossible
Speaker 1: for me. It's everywhere, and so I feel like that's hard,
Speaker 1: you know, that constantly being brought up. I mean, how
Speaker 1: could you expect anyone to properly move on and get
Speaker 1: over a relationship that was so deep and intense when
Speaker 1: it's constantly talked about, constantly brought up in my life,
Speaker 1: it's hard not to mention.
Speaker 3: I have a song with one of my.
Speaker 1: Exes, which is, uh, you know, it's just it's kind
Speaker 1: of it's so different.
Speaker 3: It's it's so different.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I feel like a you know, regular breakup
Speaker 1: through having to deal with a breakup with the public
Speaker 1: is always going to be hard, and you know they're
Speaker 1: both hard, but I feel like having the media evolved
Speaker 1: is one hundred percent a lot more difficult.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how did you come up with the eight stages
Speaker 2: of a breakup?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: My god, this is so funny. But I was listening to.
Speaker 1: So a lot of the times, I'm very intentional and
Speaker 1: I'm very thought out when it comes to every little
Speaker 1: thing that I do, especially with music. But this, this
Speaker 1: whole eight stages of a heartbreak and breakup thing actually
Speaker 1: came after it was done. I was listening from top
Speaker 1: to bottom through my entire EP after it was mixed
Speaker 1: and mastered, and I was kind of like, you know what,
Speaker 1: this is kind of like going through like all eight
Speaker 1: stages of a breakup. So I was like, instead of
Speaker 1: the seven stages of grief, like, this is like eight stages,
Speaker 1: because there's eight songs of a breakup and the grief
Speaker 1: of a relationship. And I was with my Dean and
Speaker 1: They're like, whoa, it's kind of it's kind of cool,
Speaker 1: and I was like yeah, And so it all makes sense.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I plant things out before. Sometimes things just magically
Speaker 1: fall into place and make sense after.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I love it. I love it. I think
Speaker 2: I think when we start recognizing their stages and phases
Speaker 2: to anything, oh yeah, it helps us so much as humans,
Speaker 2: where we realize it's not just one big thing, the
Speaker 2: exactly changes in how we feel. What's the what have
Speaker 2: you found to be the hardest stage in a breakup
Speaker 2: for you personally? Or like, what's what's the stage that
Speaker 2: you find the most challenging.
Speaker 1: I feel like they're all really hard, but I feel
Speaker 1: like the one I think that I call this one
Speaker 1: the desperate stage, and I just made a video about
Speaker 1: it because I have a song called Motel Whore, and
Speaker 1: I was like, this one represents the desperate stage of
Speaker 1: a breakup, and it's it's kind of like that bargaining
Speaker 1: stage where you just try and do whatever you can
Speaker 1: to get that person back in your life, no matter
Speaker 1: what costs.
Speaker 3: And like however you can.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's when like you break up with them
Speaker 1: and then you're at the point where it's like you
Speaker 1: just want them in your life that you're willing to
Speaker 1: do whatever it is to keep them in your life somehow,
Speaker 1: even though it hurts you because you know the way
Speaker 1: that you want them in your life is the way
Speaker 1: that you have them before in that relationship, but now
Speaker 1: it's like it's not that, and so you kind of
Speaker 1: end up hurting yourself more because you're you know, putting
Speaker 1: yourself back in that place, but also knowing that like
Speaker 1: you're gonna end up leaving heartbroken again because it's.
Speaker 3: A lot harder when you.
Speaker 1: Know, you try and be with that person, whether it's
Speaker 1: like friends or just like cooking up or any of
Speaker 1: that stuff, when there's like actual real love and connection
Speaker 1: on your part still, but it's like and you try
Speaker 1: to convince yourself like, oh, like this is going to
Speaker 1: get them back, like our relationship is going to be
Speaker 1: like you know how it was before, but it doesn't happen,
Speaker 1: and then it crushes you even more. I feel like
Speaker 1: that's the hardest stage, when you just become very desperate
Speaker 1: for any ounce of attention that you can get from
Speaker 1: that person, because it ends up.
Speaker 3: Breaking your heart even more.
Speaker 1: You know you didn't you could skip that stage and
Speaker 1: you know fully like lead on the path of healing
Speaker 1: the way that you should. But I think that's like
Speaker 1: the one stage where we kind of like trip up
Speaker 1: the stairs and oh god, yeah we made it harder
Speaker 1: for ourselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's well said. I can agree more that that
Speaker 2: really resonates because I think we're living in that dream
Speaker 2: of like what it could have been and what it
Speaker 2: should be and like they must love me, and it's
Speaker 2: I'm going to get it back and I'm going to
Speaker 2: win them over, And I mean we waste so much
Speaker 2: time in that. What do you think is like the
Speaker 2: longest stage? What stage do you think and you spend
Speaker 2: the most time in when you break up with someone
Speaker 2: where you just like so much energy gets sucked out
Speaker 2: in being lost at a stage.
Speaker 1: Trying to recover from the codependency part, because I mean
Speaker 1: when you're in a relationship, I know, I get so
Speaker 1: codependent on someone. You know, that's the person that you
Speaker 1: have always. You know, there's something that you go through,
Speaker 1: like you have that one person that you can talk to,
Speaker 1: cry to. They're always there for you. They become your comfort,
Speaker 1: you know, that's your safe place. And then when the
Speaker 1: relationship's over, it's like you don't have that, You're left
Speaker 1: on your own. I feel like that was the longest
Speaker 1: stage for me to get over because I was so
Speaker 1: used to being so codependent on someone and you know,
Speaker 1: having that comfort when it's all gone. Every time that
Speaker 1: I dealt with something that was hard for me, every
Speaker 1: time that I got upset, every time I felt alone,
Speaker 1: I couldn't help but want and like crave that person
Speaker 1: because I was used to having them during those times
Speaker 1: and trying to escape from the codependency and learning how
Speaker 1: to love yourself and enjoy your own company and even
Speaker 1: just like coming to terms with the fact that like
Speaker 1: you can be that person for your you know, and
Speaker 1: that you don't need anyone. I feel like that's the
Speaker 1: longest process.
Speaker 2: You're You're so right, what helped you personally in both
Speaker 2: those stages. So let's go back to the first stage,
Speaker 2: that stage of like I'm desperate, I'll do anything to
Speaker 2: get them back, Like you know, you said that was
Speaker 2: the hardest stage, Like what helped you in your life
Speaker 2: break through that stage? Because you're so right, It is
Speaker 2: the hardest because it's the one where we have the
Speaker 2: most hope, but it's false hope, and it's the one
Speaker 2: where we also are living the most in dreamland in
Speaker 2: our minds. So it's so hard when that picture crumbles. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what have you done? What's really worked for you?
Speaker 1: I think therapy was a big thing for me, And
Speaker 1: there was a moment where during that time where I
Speaker 1: fully took the step to almost fully isolate myself, where
Speaker 1: I was only focused on myself and my healing and
Speaker 1: my music and things that made me happy. And I
Speaker 1: spent that time really trying to figure out, you know,
Speaker 1: who I am as a person and the things that
Speaker 1: I love and the.
Speaker 3: Things that helped me.
Speaker 1: And so it kind of like, you know, that like
Speaker 1: point of relationship where like you start to like understand
Speaker 1: and like know that like person that you're with, you know,
Speaker 1: and you get closer with them.
Speaker 3: It's like that very beginning.
Speaker 1: It was kind of like I started to go through
Speaker 1: that with myself, and so it kind of took me
Speaker 1: away from having to, you know, really struggle with the
Speaker 1: the breakup. I feel like you just got to fake
Speaker 1: it until you make it and just force yourself. And
Speaker 1: there's always gonna be days. I mean, like I thought,
Speaker 1: there was like a day where I was like fine,
Speaker 1: and then two seconds later I see something and I'm
Speaker 1: bawling my eyes out, you know, and even like randomly,
Speaker 1: like you know months later, I'm fully moved on, but
Speaker 1: I'll still get sad over things because like love is
Speaker 1: such a strong feeling that never goes away matter like
Speaker 1: what happens or how things ended, and you know any
Speaker 1: of that, Like if you ever had true love for
Speaker 1: that person, you're always going to love them. It was
Speaker 1: always hard, but I think the second that I really
Speaker 1: started to prioritize myself and to really just like focus
Speaker 1: on myself and fixate on that rather than how much
Speaker 1: I missed that person, it helped.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah, that's really I hope that's going to
Speaker 2: help you. But I hope it sits with people, because
Speaker 2: you're right, it's just almost like you've got to push through.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's not going to be easy, it's not going
Speaker 2: to make sense. But when you're in that longest phase
Speaker 2: and it's just getting drawn out, how do you even
Speaker 2: keep hope and how do you even keep faith that
Speaker 2: I can have love again and that I do deserve
Speaker 2: to be loved. Because I think in that longest phase
Speaker 2: is where a lot of people get so broken down
Speaker 2: that they're like I'm not lovable. Yeah, I'm not likable,
Speaker 2: I'm not worthy, I'm not attractive. I'm not smart what
Speaker 2: it may be that that person made me feel. Now,
Speaker 2: it's like I can't be all of those things because
Speaker 2: it's that stage is drawn out so much that it
Speaker 2: beats up your self esteem. Yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 1: No, that was something that I struggled with for the
Speaker 1: longest time. And I think that the more that you
Speaker 1: keep yourself in that mindset like mindset, the hardest that
Speaker 1: it's going to be to get out of that, because yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, I mean like when you start kind of
Speaker 1: like tearing yourself down and thinking about, you know how
Speaker 1: difficult it is to find love again, that you won't
Speaker 1: because no one's ever going to love you and all
Speaker 1: that stuff and you're worthless and everything that comes with that.
Speaker 1: It's going to keep you away from doing the proper
Speaker 1: healing and to actually want to heal, because if you
Speaker 1: have that mindset, then it's like what's the point of healing,
Speaker 1: you know, and getting better. I realized I got to
Speaker 1: a point where I was like, yeah, I'm never going
Speaker 1: to fall in love again or no one's ever gonna
Speaker 1: love me. And then it got to the point where
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I don't care. I
Speaker 1: don't care to ever have a relationship, Like, I'm fine
Speaker 1: because every relationship, I mean, there's probably gonna be a
Speaker 1: few trial and error ones until you find the person
Speaker 1: that you like really end up being with, you know.
Speaker 1: And so it's no guarantee that the next one that
Speaker 1: I get like in a relationship with is going to
Speaker 1: be the one which would you know, most likely end
Speaker 1: up in a heartbreak that in that moment, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I cannot afford to go through again, so I don't
Speaker 1: even care to, you know, be in a relationship or
Speaker 1: find love again. But then in therapy, I realize that
Speaker 1: it's that's not going to change unless you love yourself.
Speaker 1: I feel like loving yourself is like the biggest thing
Speaker 1: and like the most important thing, and I feel like
Speaker 1: everyone kind of neglects that because it's like it seems
Speaker 1: like something that's just not like unnecessary, but we overlook
Speaker 1: it because like we are, you know who we are,
Speaker 1: and we give love to everyone around us because like
Speaker 1: that's life, you know. But I feel like a lot
Speaker 1: of the times we forget to look internally, and the
Speaker 1: only way that you can give things to people is
Speaker 1: if you already have it within you. And when I
Speaker 1: realize that even if like I want to be in
Speaker 1: a relationship and I want someone, I want to be
Speaker 1: in love, I'm probably not capable to love someone as
Speaker 1: best as I can because I can't even love myself
Speaker 1: and I don't right now, and so yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like as soon as you just work on that self love,
Speaker 1: that's when things start being easier, because then you also
Speaker 1: get out of that mindset where you're like you don't
Speaker 1: really need anyone, you know, and you couldn't be okay
Speaker 1: with you know, not having to look you know and
Speaker 1: constantly like think about wanting a relationship or like finding
Speaker 1: that person to be with, and you can just like
Speaker 1: spend you know, nights alone without having to cry about
Speaker 1: it or wish that there was someone with you.
Speaker 3: But yeah, self love, I feel like, is the key.
Speaker 2: How do you find things or how have you found
Speaker 2: things that you love about yourself? Because I think we
Speaker 2: live in a society that makes us love ourselves because
Speaker 2: other people love us. So it's like if someone thinks
Speaker 2: you're attractive, then you think, oh, yeah, I'm attractive, this
Speaker 2: is good. Or if someone thinks you're really smart, then
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, yeah, they think i'm smart, so now
Speaker 2: i'm smart. Like so much of our self value, weirdly
Speaker 2: is placed on other people valuing us. How have you
Speaker 2: found things to really love about yourself? Because I agree
Speaker 2: with you fully, but how do you go that step
Speaker 2: further to be like, I really love this about myself
Speaker 2: even if no one else sees it.
Speaker 1: I could never understand the things that I could possibly
Speaker 1: love about myself until the moment that I thought about
Speaker 1: my younger self, because that's still me, you know. The
Speaker 1: second that I started, you know, looking back on the
Speaker 1: person that I used to be, and you know, even
Speaker 1: like six year old me, I started to think about
Speaker 1: all the things that she would be so happy and
Speaker 1: proud of that I've done, you know today, That's when
Speaker 1: I started to, you know, find things that I actually
Speaker 1: could feel, you know, love for myself with and to
Speaker 1: feel proud of myself for and all of those things.
Speaker 3: And then I don't know, and then sometimes you.
Speaker 1: Just kind of have to dig a little bit deeper
Speaker 1: because I feel like self love is a lot less
Speaker 1: superficial than you know, any other love could possibly be,
Speaker 1: and it has to be really deep because it's like,
Speaker 1: you know who you are as a person to the
Speaker 1: deepest core more than anyone else could more than you
Speaker 1: can know other people in order to love them. So
Speaker 1: I feel like that's why it's tricky for us to
Speaker 1: love you like ourselves, because we know the ins and
Speaker 1: outs of us and the worst parts of us and
Speaker 1: the ugliest parts, and so we're worst critics.
Speaker 3: So I feel like that's the hardest thing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, when I thought about it, and I'm like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I've been able to do the things that I did
Speaker 1: which I never thought I was able to, Like, that's
Speaker 1: something that I should be proud of, the things that
Speaker 1: I've gone through that I never thought that I could
Speaker 1: make it out of and my strength, Like that's something
Speaker 1: that I should love myself for and just have compassion
Speaker 1: for myself for, even just the fact that, like, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, no matter all the things
Speaker 1: that I've been through and no matter like how bad
Speaker 1: people have treated me, like the fact that I'm still
Speaker 1: a good person and I still have a good heart
Speaker 1: and I know that you know, more than anyone else could,
Speaker 1: that's the reason why I should love myself, you know.
Speaker 1: So I feel like it's just like little things, and
Speaker 1: I feel like it's just very important to just like
Speaker 1: sit down and really just like analyze yourself and to
Speaker 1: you know, just take time to like understand you, which
Speaker 1: I feel like is something that I just learned how
Speaker 1: to do. But it's like, it's really nice.
Speaker 2: Everyone is listening. I want you to take a screenshot
Speaker 2: right now, and I want you to listen to that
Speaker 2: part that Nessa just said again and again it again.
Speaker 2: It can even put you to sleep, like it's so
Speaker 2: brilliant because everything you just said that literally the last
Speaker 2: thirty seconds. I promise you if you just listened to
Speaker 2: the last thirty seconds again and again and again, the
Speaker 2: point will become so clear because what you just said
Speaker 2: sums up an idea that I really believe. And I
Speaker 2: believe that self care comes from comfort, but self respect
Speaker 2: comes from discomfort. And you just said that when you
Speaker 2: look back at all the things you've been through and
Speaker 2: all the things you survived and all the things you've done,
Speaker 2: that's what makes you love yourself. And I believe that
Speaker 2: everyone who's listening or watching today, they've all been through
Speaker 2: hard things. Everyone's been through some sort of difficulty in
Speaker 2: their life. There's still alive, they're still breathing, they've still
Speaker 2: held onto their good heart, they're still a good person,
Speaker 2: and that's what you really want to love yourself for.
Speaker 2: And when you learn to love yourself for that, you
Speaker 2: realize no one ever gave you that, and no one
Speaker 2: can take it away, and it's yours. Whereas all the
Speaker 2: other things they will come and go and people will
Speaker 2: change their mind, but this is something that's forever yours.
Speaker 2: And so you just summed it up really beautifully, and
Speaker 2: I love the way you said it. I hope people will, honestly,
Speaker 2: I mean that, just repeat it again and again, because
Speaker 2: it's just rewiring our thoughts to be like, that's why
Speaker 2: I'm valuable. I'm not valuable because of all these other
Speaker 2: things that people are saying. One thing you do that
Speaker 2: I love. You do a burn box on stage where
Speaker 2: you get fans to write messages and then you burn them.
Speaker 2: That is so cool. I love that. That is the
Speaker 2: dopest thing I've ever heard of. I was like, you
Speaker 2: need to do that my next show. Where did that
Speaker 2: ritual come from? Walk me through? Did you used to
Speaker 2: do that yourself? Was that something you invented for the community,
Speaker 2: Like tell me where I came from? Because I love that?
Speaker 2: When I was like, this is amazing.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Well, the thing about my music is that it's very
Speaker 1: it's very deep and meaningful. And I talk a lot
Speaker 1: about mental health, and I know that a lot of
Speaker 1: the people that come to my shows are there because
Speaker 1: they have struggled and they relate deeply to my songs.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not just.
Speaker 1: I never want my shows and my tour to just
Speaker 1: be a show where it's you know, just me playing
Speaker 1: you know, their favorite songs.
Speaker 3: Like I want this to be like.
Speaker 1: Not like a therapy session, but like a healing, you know,
Speaker 1: moment for everyone, Like a bonding moment, something that's really real,
Speaker 1: something that they can walk away from and not only
Speaker 1: just remember the music, but the feeling that they've gotten
Speaker 1: from it. And I also wanted to do something that
Speaker 1: was interactive and how full and healing the same way.
Speaker 1: And I thought that doing a burn box could be
Speaker 1: cool and it was also kind of the easiest thing
Speaker 1: that we could you know, execute for my show, like
Speaker 1: at the time, but I mean, like, what better like
Speaker 1: interactive thing to do, like on stage than to have
Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of my fans that are coming
Speaker 1: to the show and write on a little piece of
Speaker 1: paper things that they're struggling with. They want to let
Speaker 1: go of get off their chest and just like let
Speaker 1: you know, just not bottle up anymore and just like
Speaker 1: get off their chests, write it down, anonymously, put it
Speaker 1: in this burn box, and then watch it being burned
Speaker 1: on stage.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I feel like that there's something so powerful about that,
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad that we did it because it
Speaker 1: was it was you know, most of their like favorite
Speaker 1: parts of the entire show, and it's helped a lot
Speaker 1: of people and even like I've seen like people in
Speaker 1: the crowd that cry before a while I'm burning it,
Speaker 1: and it's just like that's what like makes that's what
Speaker 1: makes my day, and that's what motivates me to you know,
Speaker 1: even do the show and to like do what I'm
Speaker 1: doing now, because like that's the reason why I'm doing it,
Speaker 1: and it's so pure and heartwarming just to see like
Speaker 1: how something like that, you know, that I thought could
Speaker 1: be like a little fun, like could actually like affect
Speaker 1: them like on a deep level.
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it seems like all your music and
Speaker 2: all the work you're doing is so healing focused. It
Speaker 2: seems like you're doing so much self healing. It seems
Speaker 2: like the work you want your community to do is healing.
Speaker 2: I think it's I mean, I think it's a genius
Speaker 2: idea to do on stage. It's I think it's such
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing to have rituals that communities your audience
Speaker 2: can come and do together. And I can only imagine
Speaker 2: the incredible experience people are having. You said that was
Speaker 2: the easiest thing you could do at this stage. What's
Speaker 2: like the craziest thing you want to do that you
Speaker 2: think would be super healing for everyone? You have like
Speaker 2: a vision for it, you don't have.
Speaker 1: I just wonder something like I've had like some like
Speaker 1: pretty crazy ideas.
Speaker 3: Let me try and think.
Speaker 1: I just want to do like a lot like I
Speaker 1: know that there's like certain songs that, like I've I
Speaker 1: love to just like be able to get certain people
Speaker 1: from the crowd that really resonate or struggling with something
Speaker 1: that has to do with that song and like bring
Speaker 1: them up and you know, have a moment with them.
Speaker 1: I would also love like a point where I, you know,
Speaker 1: ever have like a big enough show where I can
Speaker 1: like actually have you know, some my fans you know,
Speaker 1: tell their stories, because I think it's just as important
Speaker 1: for me to have a voice as it is for them,
Speaker 1: you know, because I've said this before, It's like I
Speaker 1: kind of use my music to be the voice for
Speaker 1: the voiceless. And so when I get to a point
Speaker 1: where I can do whatever the heck I want on stage,
Speaker 1: like I want to give them their voice, you know,
Speaker 1: I want them to have the mic and I want
Speaker 1: them to say what i've they feel they need to.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's so many like cool things to do,
Speaker 1: but the brin box is just like so awesome. And
Speaker 1: it also was like very disappointing for some venues that
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it in because it.
Speaker 3: Was a safety hazard.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and also the fire, I think fire is
Speaker 1: fun too.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: I love the interactive element. Even in my show, we
Speaker 2: did a ton of interactive stuff. I set people up
Speaker 2: on first dates on stage. I love I had what
Speaker 2: else did we do? I locked people in the caves
Speaker 2: for fifteen minutes. They had spend time alone without their phone.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, we were doing this all on stage.
Speaker 2: And I love that interactive element because I agree with
Speaker 2: you completely that people need to feel and experience this.
Speaker 2: It's not just like some idea and you're right, that
Speaker 2: people really do have a letting go, releasing energy in
Speaker 2: the room when everyone's doing it together. So I'm excited
Speaker 2: to see what you do next, Like that's that's that's brilliant.
Speaker 2: I think combining music and that sort of a healing
Speaker 2: experience is super unique and really powerful. So I'm excited
Speaker 2: for you to have bigger on it's these bigger venues
Speaker 2: and all of that to come to, all of that
Speaker 2: to happen. One thing that comes to mind for me
Speaker 2: when we're talking about all of this with you is
Speaker 2: just you've done so much at such a young age.
Speaker 2: It seems like you're navigating it and doing it in
Speaker 2: the best way you possibly can with getting the help
Speaker 2: and reconnect with your family doing therapy. I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: so happy that you've been supported this young and you've
Speaker 2: found that support, because I either meet people who've been
Speaker 2: around in the industry for decades and they've just found support,
Speaker 2: or I meet people who are young and kind of
Speaker 2: really gone off on a different path, and there's very
Speaker 2: few people your age who I think have found that
Speaker 2: and that's really incredible to see. What do you think
Speaker 2: that young artists need in order to be supported in
Speaker 2: their journey of being a musician, an actor and actress,
Speaker 2: whatever it may be, you think would be really useful
Speaker 2: for them for people who are aspiring, because I think
Speaker 2: everyone would want everyone from the outside would look at
Speaker 2: your life and be like, I want that, I want
Speaker 2: to be that. What do you think they should be
Speaker 2: aware of in their journey in pursuit that could help them.
Speaker 1: I think that the biggest advice and the biggest thing
Speaker 1: that has helped me and that I could tell anyone,
Speaker 1: is to be very vocal and honest and open and vulnerable,
Speaker 1: you know, to the closest people around you, to your team,
Speaker 1: to the people that you trust. Because I think that's
Speaker 1: how I was able to create such a stable support
Speaker 1: system around me from the beginning, because you know, everyone
Speaker 1: knows the type of music that I talk about, and
Speaker 1: everyone knows that I actually struggle with it as well,
Speaker 1: and so I feel like that's why it's me being
Speaker 1: so open and honest about, you know, the things that
Speaker 1: I struggle with and my needs and the thing that
Speaker 1: I need help with. I think that's helped me be
Speaker 1: able to continue this because there's other people that are
Speaker 1: aware and in support of that as well. And I
Speaker 1: think like even if people don't really struggle with anyone,
Speaker 1: just being honest in yourself and never losing sight of that.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've even had moments where I've almost
Speaker 1: lost myself in this because it's so easy to get
Speaker 1: influenced and to try and figure out, you know what,
Speaker 1: who's the person that people want you to be, and
Speaker 1: who what's the type of music or you know, anything
Speaker 1: like that that people want from you. But that's not
Speaker 1: going to do anything but hurt you and your career.
Speaker 1: And I was just I had like a conversation like
Speaker 1: not too long ago where it's like, yeah, like my
Speaker 1: dream and my goal is to be like one of
Speaker 1: the biggest artists ever. Of course that's like what I'm
Speaker 1: doing this for. But I'm not never in my entire
Speaker 1: life going to sit down and release a song that
Speaker 1: I know as a hit, or to go and write
Speaker 1: a song that I know as a hit that doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like me as an artist and isn't something that
Speaker 1: I relate to, just so that you know, it'll you know,
Speaker 1: give me a step up in the career and maybe
Speaker 1: like you know, create this like skyrocket process for me
Speaker 1: because it is a hit, you know, and it's something
Speaker 1: that would be good in the industry. I'd rather build
Speaker 1: whatever I can by being myself because it's more. It's
Speaker 1: more like I feel more proud doing that and accomplishing things.
Speaker 1: Just being myself and you know, saying the things that
Speaker 1: I want to say and being real. I feel like
Speaker 1: that means the world to me more than just you know,
Speaker 1: being an artist and releasing hits and being a person
Speaker 1: that you know. It's I feel like it's just the
Speaker 1: easy way out a little bit. But I feel like
Speaker 1: because of how I started this and how I continue
Speaker 1: to do all of this is what's gonna make me
Speaker 1: be able to do it for the rest of my
Speaker 1: life because I'm not going to get like trapped in
Speaker 1: this like facade or this crazy headspace. It's like everyone
Speaker 1: knows me who I am, and this music helps me
Speaker 1: and probably just as much as it helps everyone out there,
Speaker 1: and so I feel very fortunate for that. So Yeah,
Speaker 1: anyone that is inspiring to do this or needs any advice,
Speaker 1: I would just say to be themselves.
Speaker 2: That's that's incredible. I you're definitely wise beyond your years,
Speaker 2: and you're I wish you all the best from the
Speaker 2: bottom of my heart. Like you know, for everything you
Speaker 2: just said, I think we need more art in the
Speaker 2: world that is made from a place of healing in
Speaker 2: order to help people. It can still be fun and
Speaker 2: exciting and interactive and entertaining and all of that, but
Speaker 2: it's made from that deeper place which I feel like
Speaker 2: you're definitely trying to channel. We end every episode of
Speaker 2: On Purpose with a final five. These are the fast five.
Speaker 2: The questions have to be answered in one word to
Speaker 2: one sentence maximum. However, when I get intrigued, I always
Speaker 2: go off record, which is fine. We'll do that, so
Speaker 2: nest of these are your final five. The first question
Speaker 2: is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 1: Let go and like, God, like, that's one hundred percent
Speaker 1: the best advice ever.
Speaker 2: Beautiful, all right. Question two, what's the worst advice you've
Speaker 2: ever heard or received?
Speaker 3: Text him?
Speaker 2: All right, God, tell me more, Tell me more.
Speaker 1: You know, if you're just like in your head about
Speaker 1: like an extra or anything like that, and someone tells
Speaker 1: you, you know what, just text him, do not listen, do
Speaker 1: not you know. I feel like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: advice that kind of just enables your bad habits. Let's
Speaker 1: try to stay away from.
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, great, great advice. So I'm gonna ask you.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go slightly off peace Dare, because I think
Speaker 2: you might have some good advice with people. Let's say
Speaker 2: I have a hypothetical friend. It's a real friend. But
Speaker 2: let's have a friend who is around your age, and
Speaker 2: she deals with people pleasing. She becomes friends with guys
Speaker 2: who actually want to get with her, but then she
Speaker 2: doesn't like them in that way, but then she feels
Speaker 2: bad to tell them that. What should she do in
Speaker 2: that scenario? Why are you laughing? There's something going to
Speaker 2: us like this reminds you so much of myself? That's
Speaker 2: so funny. Great advice, but what advice would give to
Speaker 2: my friend? It's a real story. So I'm like actually
Speaker 2: asking when she listens to this, she's going to be like, Jerry,
Speaker 2: how did you put me out?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: I think boundaries is like the biggest advice. And I
Speaker 1: feel like when you are people pleaser and you're a
Speaker 1: very nice person, like at the core, and you only
Speaker 1: see like the good in people and you can't really like,
Speaker 1: it's easy to like it's it's easy to ignore any
Speaker 1: red flags. I feel like, just try and set as
Speaker 1: many boundaries as yourself and just like protect yourself and
Speaker 1: just be cautious. I feel like being cautious is the
Speaker 1: biggest thing because there are sticky situations that you can
Speaker 1: get into just because you're genuinely a nice person and
Speaker 1: everyone has different intentions than you. So I think slow,
Speaker 1: being slow and steady and cautious, okay, And yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. Sometimes it's urgery to give advice when like,
Speaker 1: as I don't even know, I want.
Speaker 2: To know what you would do. Question number three What
Speaker 2: keeps you up at night?
Speaker 3: Honestly?
Speaker 1: Anything, anything and everything I could think about, you know,
Speaker 1: certain situations that are happening in my personal life or uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I I get paranoid and I have like
Speaker 1: anxiety about like with my family because they're so far
Speaker 1: from me now, or I just start thinking about deep
Speaker 1: things like God and the universe and aliens and weird
Speaker 1: stuff like that and if I'm even human. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think anything keeps me up at night in a
Speaker 1: weird way. The even sometimes like songwriting, I feel like
Speaker 1: I've stayed up for hours before trying to write a
Speaker 1: song absolutely goes nowhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2: A question num before if someone needs to break up
Speaker 2: with someone, What is your best advice to the person
Speaker 2: doing the breaking up.
Speaker 1: Sit them down and have a really nice, respectful conversation
Speaker 1: about it, and be as vocal and honest as you
Speaker 1: can and still have compassion and not try to let things.
Speaker 3: Get fired up.
Speaker 1: Or also stand your ground, because if you already want
Speaker 1: to break up with them, don't let them convince you otherwise,
Speaker 1: and do so without cheating or being disloyal because it
Speaker 1: is not nice. I have this song there I wrote
Speaker 1: recently that was it's called leave Me Better Than You
Speaker 1: Found Me, And so it's kind of like that's like
Speaker 1: my whole thing like about breakups.
Speaker 3: It's like, if you're going to break.
Speaker 1: Up with someone, like, don't do all of the the
Speaker 1: yelling and the arguments and the cheating and the slamming
Speaker 1: the door before you leave at like when you break up,
Speaker 1: like literally, just have it be like a nice, mature,
Speaker 1: open conversation and like, you know, have it be a
Speaker 1: kiss goodbye rather than like a slam to the door
Speaker 1: out type thing. You know, don't cause any more trouble,
Speaker 1: trouble and like pain then like you know you need to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great advice, Great advice. There we go all right.
Speaker 2: Fifth and final question. We asked this to every guest
Speaker 2: who's ever been on the show. If you could create
Speaker 2: one law that everyone in the world had to follow,
Speaker 2: what would it be.
Speaker 1: Okay, this one seems so like stupid. This is the
Speaker 1: first thing that I came up in my head. But
Speaker 1: I think that if there was a law that where
Speaker 1: if like you had to I feel like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: sound like so like cringe and like clichi you doing this,
Speaker 1: But like if you see someone like in public that's like.
Speaker 3: Very like obviously.
Speaker 1: Going through it and like crying and like in pain,
Speaker 1: like give them a hug, give them like love. I
Speaker 1: feel like that is something that should be a lot
Speaker 1: I feel like nowadays there's so much hatred and separation
Speaker 1: in the world. I feel like we just need a
Speaker 1: lot more love. So if there was a law that was, like,
Speaker 1: if you see someone that needs it, give them love
Speaker 1: and give them a hug. I feel like that would
Speaker 1: make the world a lot more of a better place.
Speaker 2: That's awesome. I love it. Nasa everyone hell is a
Speaker 2: teenage girl music is out right now. I hope anyone
Speaker 2: who's going through a breakup been through a tough breakup
Speaker 2: just wants to have good energy and good healing in
Speaker 2: their life should go listen to the music. I know
Speaker 2: that I'll be recommending it to everyone. Nasa. I'm just
Speaker 2: so grateful to you for you know, even just talking
Speaker 2: to you's been so peaceful, so calming, And what's really
Speaker 2: wonderful is hearing someone who's obviously been through so much
Speaker 2: but able to express it in a really coherent way
Speaker 2: that's not like that's really tough. And to hear about
Speaker 2: all the work that you're doing on yourself and the
Speaker 2: therapy and the hypnotherapy and just reflecting and making music
Speaker 2: and expressing your art, all of that is just I
Speaker 2: really appreciate it, and it's wonderful to see and thank
Speaker 2: you so much for all the hard work you're doing
Speaker 2: for yourself and then to share it with others as well.
Speaker 2: But even just hearing you speak, I'm like, I hope
Speaker 2: everyone just listens to this episode on repeat because they're
Speaker 2: going to get so much out of it. But nessa,
Speaker 2: thank you so much everyone who's been listening or watching.
Speaker 2: Whether you're walking your dog, whether you're cooking, whether you're
Speaker 2: at the gym, whether you're driving, whatever you're doing, make
Speaker 2: sure you tag NASA and I on TikTok, on Instagram,
Speaker 2: on threads, on Twitter, on any platform you're using, letting
Speaker 2: us know what stood out to you, what stuck out
Speaker 2: to you, what you're practicing, what moments you're re listening to.
Speaker 2: I love seeing what resonates with you. Maybe you're going
Speaker 2: to do your own burn box at home safely. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much for listening and watching. A huge thanks
Speaker 2: NASA for being here, and thank you so much. That
Speaker 2: was awesome. Thank you. This episode you'll enjoy my conversation
Speaker 2: with Megan Trainer on breaking generational trauma and how to
Speaker 2: be confident from the inside out.
Speaker 4: My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for
Speaker 4: five minutes. It was already tough for me to love
Speaker 4: my body, but after the C section scar with all
Speaker 4: the stretch marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've
Speaker 4: been hacked. But day three, when I did it, I
Speaker 4: was like, you know what, her thigh is a cue