Speaker 1: The Iron Dome has intercepted at least eight missiles or
Speaker 1: barrages of missiles that have been fired from Hamas, so
Speaker 1: doing the math there more than one an hour.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 1: Some of that has been hitting the so called Gaza envelope,
Speaker 1: which is along the Israel Gaza border, but it has
Speaker 1: gone as north as Jerusalem here and here from Israel
Speaker 1: into Gaza, we have been seeing the Israel Defense Forces
Speaker 1: continuing its assault by land and by air.
Speaker 3: So what they're calling the second phase is underway in Gaza.
Speaker 3: All the talk over the weekend on your Sunday talk shows,
Speaker 3: also in and editorials in the newspapers are all about
Speaker 3: how do we stop Israel from killing too many people?
Speaker 3: How do we stop Israel from going too far? No
Speaker 3: talk really of how do you wipe out hamasks so
Speaker 3: they don't murder people? Again, all of the talk on
Speaker 3: the other side, and I just feel like Israel's being
Speaker 3: presented with a modern conundrum that has never existed in
Speaker 3: the history of the world successfully done. So I don't
Speaker 3: know what they're going to do.
Speaker 4: Well, before we plunge on with that conversation, which is
Speaker 4: a good one, let's introduce doctor Jeff mcauslin's CBS News
Speaker 4: military consultant to decorating veteran of the United States Army, Jeff,
Speaker 4: how are you, sir?
Speaker 2: Very well, guys, good be with you.
Speaker 4: So while that Jackson introduction sounded a little like media criticism,
Speaker 4: and there's an element to it there, there is no
Speaker 4: question that international support, American support, world opinion is a
Speaker 4: factor in all this. And Israel has a real conundrum.
Speaker 2: No, it certainly does. I mean they're conducting warfare in
Speaker 2: the traditional free domains air land and sea, isolating the battlefield.
Speaker 2: Now going to a second faith, it might be important
Speaker 2: to main weight maybe information information war. And it certainly
Speaker 2: seems Israel is not doing terribly well. As it does
Speaker 2: appear the global community is turning against Israel and the
Speaker 2: conduct of their operations, as a number of Palestinians killed
Speaker 2: and wounded clins and there are reports as many as
Speaker 2: eight thousand citizens of Gods that have been killed since
Speaker 2: this fighting began, and over twenty thousand have been injured.
Speaker 2: But from the onset, of course, there was this popular
Speaker 2: revulsion around the world to the Heenus attacks by Hamas
Speaker 2: that had killed twelve hundred israel thes two hundred youngsters
Speaker 2: at a music festival, elderly people and babies. But now,
Speaker 2: as the war's going on for several weeks and that continues,
Speaker 2: that does seem to be what's turning against Israel to
Speaker 2: come back to you know, is there a comparison historically?
Speaker 2: The one I think of frankly, is Isis. You know,
Speaker 2: Isis threatened the same kind of barbaric action and conducted
Speaker 2: that in Iraq, and we basically determined, we the world community,
Speaker 2: that this particular group had to be extinguished and brought
Speaker 2: together a coalition of country's to do that. US forces
Speaker 2: are still in Iraq and Syria to this very day,
Speaker 2: to the tune of about three thousand to three thousand,
Speaker 2: five hundred for that mission, and many have been struck
Speaker 2: by attacks from Scheid militia supported by Iran as this
Speaker 2: war in the Gaza Strip has commenced.
Speaker 3: So if AMAS is going to you know, put their
Speaker 3: headquarters under a hospital or surround themselves with civilians, I
Speaker 3: don't what is Israel supposed to do? Say, I guess
Speaker 3: you win. You won, you came up with a clever strategy,
Speaker 3: So I mean, don't I honestly don't know what they're
Speaker 3: supposed to do.
Speaker 2: No, You're exactly right. It is a terrible conundrum. I
Speaker 2: think what they frankly need to do, however, is do
Speaker 2: more in terms of showing some effort to provide humanitarian
Speaker 2: assistance to the Gaza Strip. The last twenty four hours,
Speaker 2: it's seen about thirty three trucks arrive in the strip.
Speaker 2: That's about a fraction of the humanitarian assistance that people
Speaker 2: from the World Health Organization the UN seems to believe
Speaker 2: is required. So I think if if in fact Israel
Speaker 2: has had a more aggressive effort provide humanitarian assistance, particularly
Speaker 2: in the southern part of the Kazas where they have
Speaker 2: actually urged the citizens of Gods of the flee to
Speaker 2: that might also reduce this turn against public opinion against
Speaker 2: Israel and also hopefully damp and down it worries me
Speaker 2: an awful lot, and that is this war widening across
Speaker 2: the region. In the last twenty four hours, Israel struck
Speaker 2: Hitzmalah in Lebanon, they have struck targets in Syria those
Speaker 2: in the aftermath of strikes coming from those directions as well. Oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, and US forces in Rock and Syria
Speaker 2: have been struck once again. So the real concern to
Speaker 2: me is if we can't dampen down this effort towards
Speaker 2: a widening conflict, then things which are really bad right
Speaker 2: now could actually get a lot worse.
Speaker 4: It's an excellent point. The information war is not merely
Speaker 4: an information war. It could turn into a kinetic one.
Speaker 4: But speaking of that sort of thing, if you were
Speaker 4: involved in the Israeli military, you're helping plan the cleansing
Speaker 4: of Hamas without a humanitarian nightmare, how serious is that
Speaker 4: logistical challenge? Does the ground troops move into Gaza?
Speaker 2: Well, look at this way, there's thirteen thousand people per
Speaker 2: square mile in one of the most densely populated areas
Speaker 2: on the planet Earth. You can consider why you would
Speaker 2: conduct the combat operations in central Manhattan. You know, I
Speaker 2: was in Fallujah, a city of about two and fifty
Speaker 2: thousand that we went into in Lay two thousand and
Speaker 2: four to destroy a terrorist group in that particular city.
Speaker 2: About eighty ninety percent of the people of Pellujah had
Speaker 2: left by the time we moved in. Took us six weeks.
Speaker 2: About one hundred Americans were killed and about five hundred
Speaker 2: were wounded. I remember going through the streets of Fallujah
Speaker 2: with my security detachment, and every building had two big
Speaker 2: exits on it, y two exits. That meant every room,
Speaker 2: every closet, every basement had been searched twice. And that's
Speaker 2: exactly what Israel's going to have to do in the
Speaker 2: Gazas trip. The other big difference was in Fellujah there
Speaker 2: was no building I remember, except for a mosque perhaps
Speaker 2: that had over three stories. Look at the film, look
Speaker 2: at the multi story buildings in Gaza and imagine you're
Speaker 2: going to go through every room, every apartment, every closet,
Speaker 2: every basement, and at the same time be worried about
Speaker 2: the fact that there are three hundred miles perhaps of
Speaker 2: tunnels under the Gaza strip that can afford Jumas the
Speaker 2: opportunity to flee out through those tunnels or come through
Speaker 2: those tunnels come up behind you, as well as storing
Speaker 2: large portions of weapons m explosives in those areas to
Speaker 2: conduct the fight.
Speaker 3: Well, the topic of the news cycle is what we've
Speaker 3: been discussing, this new phase of the Israel taken on
Speaker 3: Hamas in Gaza. But the new cycle on Friday, and
Speaker 3: I want to ask you your opinion on this was
Speaker 3: all about have we responded enough to Iran? They hit
Speaker 3: us so many different military basis, injured so many people,
Speaker 3: and then we kind of struck them. Do you feel
Speaker 3: like we've done enough to deter them or is there
Speaker 3: more to come?
Speaker 2: Well deterrence is there a function of what happens in
Speaker 2: the aftermath. And unfortunately, in the last twenty four to
Speaker 2: thirty six hours, we've seen a couple of strikes against
Speaker 2: US bases in Iraq and in Syria, in the aftermath
Speaker 2: of a fairly extensive airstrike against an area we know
Speaker 2: used by Al Kuds, which is a Iranian port of
Speaker 2: the Iranian military or Iranian Revolutionary Guards, as well as
Speaker 2: militia groups they are conducting operations in Syria and Iraq.
Speaker 2: The question is that sufficient at the short term? Right
Speaker 2: now it does not appear so, But the same token,
Speaker 2: the US is beefing up its military forces in the region.
Speaker 2: USS Eisenhower just entered the Mediterranean Sea and many people
Speaker 2: thought initially it would be going off the shore of Israel.
Speaker 2: I actually think it'll probably transit the Swiss Canal, go
Speaker 2: down through the Red Sea and be on station off
Speaker 2: the Persian Gulf. First time we've had a carrier in
Speaker 2: the Gulf for quite some period of time, just to
Speaker 2: send a clear message to the Iranians. If you keep
Speaker 2: doing this, We're going to keep pounding those particular militia
Speaker 2: groups in Iraq and in Syria. They're conducting these operations
Speaker 2: and obviously you do not want this conflict to expand.
Speaker 4: Jeff mccauslin, CBS News Military consultant. Final question for me, Jeff,
Speaker 4: getting back to the situation in Gaza, is if everything went,
Speaker 4: you know, as good as somebody could conceive of for
Speaker 4: the Israeli forces, how long a timetable are we looking
Speaker 4: at for them to just connect the battle operations, never
Speaker 4: mind rebuilding and trying to form some new reality that's
Speaker 4: not patently dangerous.
Speaker 2: Well, history's in perfect, but it's the only metaphor we got.
Speaker 2: The Battle of Felujah took six weeks. That was a
Speaker 2: tiny fraction of the size of the Godza Strip, maybe
Speaker 2: one tenth the size of the gods Strip. The Battle
Speaker 2: of Mozil, where we took that back from ISIS Rocki
Speaker 2: forces took nine months to root out three to five
Speaker 2: thousand ISIS fighters from Mosiul and Hamas has probably six
Speaker 2: to eight times that many fighters and they lost eight thousand,
Speaker 2: five hundred killed in action, say the Iraqis in that effort,
Speaker 2: Nobody this day knows how many civilians were killed. The
Speaker 2: Israelis are a far superior middle relitory force to the Iraqis.
Speaker 2: But the scale of this operation is just enormous. So
Speaker 2: to answer your question, we're talking I think weeks, if
Speaker 2: not months of operations in tense fighting, very heavy cases
Speaker 2: on both sides, until in fact any threat posed by
Speaker 2: Jamas is eliminated.
Speaker 3: Well, just we're going to let you go. But do
Speaker 3: you think there are going to be tens of thousands
Speaker 3: of Palestinians killed in this operation?
Speaker 2: There already have been over eight thousand killed since this
Speaker 2: war began two weeks ago, twenty thousand and injured, and
Speaker 2: obviously the fighting is going to get more intense as
Speaker 2: you go through the streets of the Gaza Strip. Israelis
Speaker 2: have called for two hospitals to be evacuated that are
Speaker 2: in Gaza City. That's virtually impossible, and around one of
Speaker 2: those hospitals alone there are up to sixty thousand people
Speaker 2: seeking refuge, and as you pointed out, very likely in
Speaker 2: that building is a command and control network come up.
Speaker 4: Jeff mccaughlin. Jeff, thanks very much for the time. We
Speaker 4: appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Take care, Armstrong and Getty