WEBVTT - Israel's Conundrum:  Jeff McCausland Talks to A&G

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<v Speaker 1>The Iron Dome has intercepted at least eight missiles or

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<v Speaker 1>barrages of missiles that have been fired from Hamas, so

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<v Speaker 1>doing the math there more than one an hour.

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<v Speaker 2>Here.

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<v Speaker 1>Some of that has been hitting the so called Gaza envelope,

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<v Speaker 1>which is along the Israel Gaza border, but it has

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<v Speaker 1>gone as north as Jerusalem here and here from Israel

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<v Speaker 1>into Gaza, we have been seeing the Israel Defense Forces

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<v Speaker 1>continuing its assault by land and by air.

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<v Speaker 3>So what they're calling the second phase is underway in Gaza.

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<v Speaker 3>All the talk over the weekend on your Sunday talk shows,

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<v Speaker 3>also in and editorials in the newspapers are all about

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<v Speaker 3>how do we stop Israel from killing too many people?

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<v Speaker 3>How do we stop Israel from going too far? No

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<v Speaker 3>talk really of how do you wipe out hamasks so

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<v Speaker 3>they don't murder people? Again, all of the talk on

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<v Speaker 3>the other side, and I just feel like Israel's being

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<v Speaker 3>presented with a modern conundrum that has never existed in

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<v Speaker 3>the history of the world successfully done. So I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know what they're going to do.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, before we plunge on with that conversation, which is

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<v Speaker 4>a good one, let's introduce doctor Jeff mcauslin's CBS News

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<v Speaker 4>military consultant to decorating veteran of the United States Army, Jeff,

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<v Speaker 4>how are you, sir?

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<v Speaker 2>Very well, guys, good be with you.

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<v Speaker 4>So while that Jackson introduction sounded a little like media criticism,

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<v Speaker 4>and there's an element to it there, there is no

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<v Speaker 4>question that international support, American support, world opinion is a

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<v Speaker 4>factor in all this. And Israel has a real conundrum.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it certainly does. I mean they're conducting warfare in

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<v Speaker 2>the traditional free domains air land and sea, isolating the battlefield.

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<v Speaker 2>Now going to a second faith, it might be important

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<v Speaker 2>to main weight maybe information information war. And it certainly

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<v Speaker 2>seems Israel is not doing terribly well. As it does

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<v Speaker 2>appear the global community is turning against Israel and the

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<v Speaker 2>conduct of their operations, as a number of Palestinians killed

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<v Speaker 2>and wounded clins and there are reports as many as

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<v Speaker 2>eight thousand citizens of Gods that have been killed since

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<v Speaker 2>this fighting began, and over twenty thousand have been injured.

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<v Speaker 2>But from the onset, of course, there was this popular

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<v Speaker 2>revulsion around the world to the Heenus attacks by Hamas

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<v Speaker 2>that had killed twelve hundred israel thes two hundred youngsters

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<v Speaker 2>at a music festival, elderly people and babies. But now,

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<v Speaker 2>as the war's going on for several weeks and that continues,

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<v Speaker 2>that does seem to be what's turning against Israel to

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<v Speaker 2>come back to you know, is there a comparison historically?

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<v Speaker 2>The one I think of frankly, is Isis. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>Isis threatened the same kind of barbaric action and conducted

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<v Speaker 2>that in Iraq, and we basically determined, we the world community,

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<v Speaker 2>that this particular group had to be extinguished and brought

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<v Speaker 2>together a coalition of country's to do that. US forces

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<v Speaker 2>are still in Iraq and Syria to this very day,

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<v Speaker 2>to the tune of about three thousand to three thousand,

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<v Speaker 2>five hundred for that mission, and many have been struck

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<v Speaker 2>by attacks from Scheid militia supported by Iran as this

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<v Speaker 2>war in the Gaza Strip has commenced.

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<v Speaker 3>So if AMAS is going to you know, put their

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<v Speaker 3>headquarters under a hospital or surround themselves with civilians, I

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<v Speaker 3>don't what is Israel supposed to do? Say, I guess

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<v Speaker 3>you win. You won, you came up with a clever strategy,

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<v Speaker 3>So I mean, don't I honestly don't know what they're

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<v Speaker 3>supposed to do.

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<v Speaker 2>No, You're exactly right. It is a terrible conundrum. I

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<v Speaker 2>think what they frankly need to do, however, is do

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<v Speaker 2>more in terms of showing some effort to provide humanitarian

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<v Speaker 2>assistance to the Gaza Strip. The last twenty four hours,

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<v Speaker 2>it's seen about thirty three trucks arrive in the strip.

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<v Speaker 2>That's about a fraction of the humanitarian assistance that people

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<v Speaker 2>from the World Health Organization the UN seems to believe

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<v Speaker 2>is required. So I think if if in fact Israel

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<v Speaker 2>has had a more aggressive effort provide humanitarian assistance, particularly

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<v Speaker 2>in the southern part of the Kazas where they have

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<v Speaker 2>actually urged the citizens of Gods of the flee to

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<v Speaker 2>that might also reduce this turn against public opinion against

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<v Speaker 2>Israel and also hopefully damp and down it worries me

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<v Speaker 2>an awful lot, and that is this war widening across

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<v Speaker 2>the region. In the last twenty four hours, Israel struck

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<v Speaker 2>Hitzmalah in Lebanon, they have struck targets in Syria those

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<v Speaker 2>in the aftermath of strikes coming from those directions as well. Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, and US forces in Rock and Syria

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<v Speaker 2>have been struck once again. So the real concern to

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<v Speaker 2>me is if we can't dampen down this effort towards

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<v Speaker 2>a widening conflict, then things which are really bad right

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<v Speaker 2>now could actually get a lot worse.

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<v Speaker 4>It's an excellent point. The information war is not merely

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<v Speaker 4>an information war. It could turn into a kinetic one.

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<v Speaker 4>But speaking of that sort of thing, if you were

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<v Speaker 4>involved in the Israeli military, you're helping plan the cleansing

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<v Speaker 4>of Hamas without a humanitarian nightmare, how serious is that

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<v Speaker 4>logistical challenge? Does the ground troops move into Gaza?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, look at this way, there's thirteen thousand people per

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<v Speaker 2>square mile in one of the most densely populated areas

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<v Speaker 2>on the planet Earth. You can consider why you would

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<v Speaker 2>conduct the combat operations in central Manhattan. You know, I

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<v Speaker 2>was in Fallujah, a city of about two and fifty

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<v Speaker 2>thousand that we went into in Lay two thousand and

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<v Speaker 2>four to destroy a terrorist group in that particular city.

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<v Speaker 2>About eighty ninety percent of the people of Pellujah had

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<v Speaker 2>left by the time we moved in. Took us six weeks.

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<v Speaker 2>About one hundred Americans were killed and about five hundred

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<v Speaker 2>were wounded. I remember going through the streets of Fallujah

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<v Speaker 2>with my security detachment, and every building had two big

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<v Speaker 2>exits on it, y two exits. That meant every room,

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<v Speaker 2>every closet, every basement had been searched twice. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>exactly what Israel's going to have to do in the

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<v Speaker 2>Gazas trip. The other big difference was in Fellujah there

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<v Speaker 2>was no building I remember, except for a mosque perhaps

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<v Speaker 2>that had over three stories. Look at the film, look

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<v Speaker 2>at the multi story buildings in Gaza and imagine you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to go through every room, every apartment, every closet,

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<v Speaker 2>every basement, and at the same time be worried about

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that there are three hundred miles perhaps of

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<v Speaker 2>tunnels under the Gaza strip that can afford Jumas the

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity to flee out through those tunnels or come through

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<v Speaker 2>those tunnels come up behind you, as well as storing

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<v Speaker 2>large portions of weapons m explosives in those areas to

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<v Speaker 2>conduct the fight.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the topic of the news cycle is what we've

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<v Speaker 3>been discussing, this new phase of the Israel taken on

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<v Speaker 3>Hamas in Gaza. But the new cycle on Friday, and

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<v Speaker 3>I want to ask you your opinion on this was

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<v Speaker 3>all about have we responded enough to Iran? They hit

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<v Speaker 3>us so many different military basis, injured so many people,

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<v Speaker 3>and then we kind of struck them. Do you feel

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<v Speaker 3>like we've done enough to deter them or is there

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<v Speaker 3>more to come?

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<v Speaker 2>Well deterrence is there a function of what happens in

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<v Speaker 2>the aftermath. And unfortunately, in the last twenty four to

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<v Speaker 2>thirty six hours, we've seen a couple of strikes against

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<v Speaker 2>US bases in Iraq and in Syria, in the aftermath

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<v Speaker 2>of a fairly extensive airstrike against an area we know

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<v Speaker 2>used by Al Kuds, which is a Iranian port of

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<v Speaker 2>the Iranian military or Iranian Revolutionary Guards, as well as

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<v Speaker 2>militia groups they are conducting operations in Syria and Iraq.

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<v Speaker 2>The question is that sufficient at the short term? Right

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<v Speaker 2>now it does not appear so, But the same token,

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<v Speaker 2>the US is beefing up its military forces in the region.

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<v Speaker 2>USS Eisenhower just entered the Mediterranean Sea and many people

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<v Speaker 2>thought initially it would be going off the shore of Israel.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually think it'll probably transit the Swiss Canal, go

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<v Speaker 2>down through the Red Sea and be on station off

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<v Speaker 2>the Persian Gulf. First time we've had a carrier in

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<v Speaker 2>the Gulf for quite some period of time, just to

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<v Speaker 2>send a clear message to the Iranians. If you keep

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<v Speaker 2>doing this, We're going to keep pounding those particular militia

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<v Speaker 2>groups in Iraq and in Syria. They're conducting these operations

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<v Speaker 2>and obviously you do not want this conflict to expand.

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<v Speaker 4>Jeff mccauslin, CBS News Military consultant. Final question for me, Jeff,

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<v Speaker 4>getting back to the situation in Gaza, is if everything went,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, as good as somebody could conceive of for

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<v Speaker 4>the Israeli forces, how long a timetable are we looking

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<v Speaker 4>at for them to just connect the battle operations, never

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<v Speaker 4>mind rebuilding and trying to form some new reality that's

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<v Speaker 4>not patently dangerous.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, history's in perfect, but it's the only metaphor we got.

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<v Speaker 2>The Battle of Felujah took six weeks. That was a

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<v Speaker 2>tiny fraction of the size of the Godza Strip, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>one tenth the size of the gods Strip. The Battle

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<v Speaker 2>of Mozil, where we took that back from ISIS Rocki

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<v Speaker 2>forces took nine months to root out three to five

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<v Speaker 2>thousand ISIS fighters from Mosiul and Hamas has probably six

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<v Speaker 2>to eight times that many fighters and they lost eight thousand,

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<v Speaker 2>five hundred killed in action, say the Iraqis in that effort,

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<v Speaker 2>Nobody this day knows how many civilians were killed. The

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<v Speaker 2>Israelis are a far superior middle relitory force to the Iraqis.

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<v Speaker 2>But the scale of this operation is just enormous. So

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<v Speaker 2>to answer your question, we're talking I think weeks, if

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<v Speaker 2>not months of operations in tense fighting, very heavy cases

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<v Speaker 2>on both sides, until in fact any threat posed by

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<v Speaker 2>Jamas is eliminated.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, just we're going to let you go. But do

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<v Speaker 3>you think there are going to be tens of thousands

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<v Speaker 3>of Palestinians killed in this operation?

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<v Speaker 2>There already have been over eight thousand killed since this

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<v Speaker 2>war began two weeks ago, twenty thousand and injured, and

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<v Speaker 2>obviously the fighting is going to get more intense as

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<v Speaker 2>you go through the streets of the Gaza Strip. Israelis

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<v Speaker 2>have called for two hospitals to be evacuated that are

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<v Speaker 2>in Gaza City. That's virtually impossible, and around one of

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<v Speaker 2>those hospitals alone there are up to sixty thousand people

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<v Speaker 2>seeking refuge, and as you pointed out, very likely in

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<v Speaker 2>that building is a command and control network come up.

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<v Speaker 4>Jeff mccaughlin. Jeff, thanks very much for the time. We

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<v Speaker 4>appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>Take care, Armstrong and Getty