Speaker 1: If you're listening to The Sportsman's Nation podcast network brought
Speaker 1: to you by Interstate Batteries, we would like to remind
Speaker 1: you to head over to the Sportsman's Nation Facebook and
Speaker 1: Instagram pages to check out the new trailer for the
Speaker 1: very first ever short film titled Tradition. We're really excited
Speaker 1: about this project and hope you will enjoy it just
Speaker 1: as much as we enjoyed making it. My name is
Speaker 1: Clay Nucoleman. I'm the host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast.
Speaker 1: I'll also be your host into the world of hunting
Speaker 1: the icon of North American wilderness. There, we'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation,
Speaker 1: but will also bring you into some of the wildest
Speaker 1: country on the planet, chasing the better. Like what are you?
Speaker 1: What are you trying to do? Aaron? What would what
Speaker 1: would the end goal of Aaron Snyder? In twenty years
Speaker 1: everything goes away that you would hope it would? What
Speaker 1: what would that be? You know? Somebody asked me this
Speaker 1: recently and I don't think they got the answer out
Speaker 1: of me. I wanted, honestly. Might We stopped in Denver
Speaker 1: at the Kafaru International Headquarters to talk with Aaron Snyder,
Speaker 1: Colby and I were on our way back from Montana
Speaker 1: and had an awesome conversation where we've talked about some
Speaker 1: of Aaron's motivations, some of his background and hunting, why
Speaker 1: he does what he does, his definitions of manhood. We
Speaker 1: talked about his motivations for being as driven as he
Speaker 1: is and as disciplined as he is. We talked about
Speaker 1: traditional archery and some of the methods that he's using,
Speaker 1: but also kind of contrasted it with other methods that
Speaker 1: worked too. We had a fun conversation that's probably different
Speaker 1: than some of the other podcasts you've heard with Aaron Snyder.
Speaker 1: Be sure to check out the Bear Hunting Magazine Patreon
Speaker 1: page where we are. We're gathering patrons for the Bear
Speaker 1: Hunting Magazine YouTube channel and this podcast. Check out Bear
Speaker 1: Hunting Magazine, the world's only print bear hunting magazine. And
Speaker 1: good luck if you're still spring bear hunting. It's like
Speaker 1: prime time right now, first weeks of June, and without
Speaker 1: further ado, Aaron Snyder Toofaro, here we go. We're rolling,
Speaker 1: all right. Welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. This
Speaker 1: is one of the podcasts on our Montana tour Colby
Speaker 1: Moorehead and I are coming back from Montana on a
Speaker 1: do it yourself bear hunt. We hauled our mules up
Speaker 1: to Montana and we were coming back through Denver. So
Speaker 1: Colorado is in between Montana and Northwest Arkansas. And uh,
Speaker 1: we are here at Kfaru and Wheat Ridge, Colorado. Is
Speaker 1: that right, Aaron? That's correct? Wheat Rich Colorado, the Kafaro
Speaker 1: World headquarters. Because it's pretty stinking impressive to really is.
Speaker 1: But I've got we're here with Aaron Snyder, and uh,
Speaker 1: for people who wouldn't Aaron, you're a hard guy to describe.
Speaker 1: But for for people who wouldn't know Aaron Snyder, which
Speaker 1: some of you may not, but I figured a lot
Speaker 1: of you do. Aaron, first of all, he works for
Speaker 1: Kafaru and Kafaru is a is a they make backpacks
Speaker 1: that make shelters there. I'm gonna let you describe what is.
Speaker 1: But Aaron hosts a podcast. Aaron does outdoor writing. Aaron
Speaker 1: is a prolific archer, got into traditional archery the last
Speaker 1: several years. He's a heck of a hunter. He's a
Speaker 1: heck of a shot. Kind of you got got started
Speaker 1: on rock slide the forum a long time ago. I
Speaker 1: us A lot of people knew you through that, Aaron,
Speaker 1: through gear related stuff. I started that website, you started
Speaker 1: rock Slide, and now you are the infamous Aaron Snyder
Speaker 1: probably a good way to describe it. Yeah, but hey,
Speaker 1: you're also a big bear hunter and an honest podcast.
Speaker 1: We don't always just talk about bear hunting. But h
Speaker 1: but Aaron Man, how would you introduce yourself? Um? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm the I'm the now president and CEO of Kafaro International.
Speaker 1: Um I yeah, I got started just doing gear review,
Speaker 1: started a website, rock Slide. Uh, got on a different podcast,
Speaker 1: Gritty Bowman kind of was a co host there. And
Speaker 1: I'm a bit introverted. I'm not too good at being
Speaker 1: in public with a large group of people, which to
Speaker 1: my probably downfall. But I get to spend, as you know,
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty two hundred plus nights a year
Speaker 1: in the wilderness. I end up lucky enough to go
Speaker 1: on hunts a year. Um, and so you know, for
Speaker 1: for me, I try to just help people as much
Speaker 1: as I can, both with the gear obviously designing gear
Speaker 1: not just for KAfari but multiple other companies as well.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, my goal really wasn't to get
Speaker 1: into the industry like a lot of people's. My goal
Speaker 1: was to get into the woods and stay there as
Speaker 1: much as I could, and in the industry ended up
Speaker 1: being a byproduct of it. Um. So yeah, that's probably
Speaker 1: not the best description in the world. But what were
Speaker 1: your original introductions to hunting there and you did you
Speaker 1: grow up in a hunting family. Oh? My my home No,
Speaker 1: not really no, um a little bit. My hometown is
Speaker 1: um a couple of hundred people in the middle of
Speaker 1: the Pacific Crest Trail. It's an organ it runs kind
Speaker 1: of right by my hometown. It's a logging community. And
Speaker 1: my dad hunted a little and you know, got me
Speaker 1: into fishing and the outdoors. But I'm one of those
Speaker 1: guys from from birth with it was just eating up
Speaker 1: alive with hunting, survival fishing. I picked mushrooms as a
Speaker 1: kid Ford school clothes, um, you know, instead same thing
Speaker 1: to for my first bow, um, and it was one
Speaker 1: of those things that um I got. I don't know
Speaker 1: what that is beating, but anyway, it was one of
Speaker 1: those things I literally could not get in the woods
Speaker 1: enough and that never never left even to this day. UM,
Speaker 1: I mean, you see how much I get to to
Speaker 1: hunt and I can't. You can get sick of hunting.
Speaker 1: I will say that you can't get tired of it
Speaker 1: where you need a break. But UM, you know, if
Speaker 1: I had a choice, whether it be photography, which is
Speaker 1: something else I'm really into, or hunting, as long as
Speaker 1: I'm in the outdoors, I'm I'm in my element. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what was So? What was the first animal you took
Speaker 1: with the I mean in the Oregon what were you hunting?
Speaker 1: It's probably illegal, be honest with you, UM, not a
Speaker 1: lot of law in a statutes, you know, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to remember. I'm I'm quite certain that probably, you know,
Speaker 1: being honest, it probably wasn't the most legal method of
Speaker 1: take at that time. But there's not a lot of
Speaker 1: people or anything like that where I'm from. But I
Speaker 1: I think it was a black tail deer. Actually, no,
Speaker 1: it was legal. The first one I shot was a
Speaker 1: black tail fokard horn. I was probably eleven or twelve
Speaker 1: years old. Um, I had just taken my Hunter's Safety
Speaker 1: card or got my hunter safety card, so I was
Speaker 1: probably twelve, and I didn't hunt as much when I
Speaker 1: was uh younger. I was on a trail crew team,
Speaker 1: and I got to do a lot of backpacking through
Speaker 1: the wilderness. UM learned a lot about what ended up
Speaker 1: being backpack hunting. UM. I fished a ton when I
Speaker 1: was younger, and I hunted a bunch of me and
Speaker 1: A hunted during seasons. But it wasn't very good at it.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a great mentor. UM. You know that
Speaker 1: came you know later, where I you know, got better
Speaker 1: and better better the more more I hunted. And I
Speaker 1: definitely more self taught, you know, which is probably why
Speaker 1: I tried to take so many people under my wing.
Speaker 1: It's a rough road when you're self taught. So you
Speaker 1: got a lot of bumps. Tell us about somebody who
Speaker 1: doesn't like I wouldn't have Probably five years ago, I
Speaker 1: didn't know. I didn't know about Kafara. But it's pretty
Speaker 1: incredible company. I mean, you just gave us a tour,
Speaker 1: a short tour the headquarters here, and everything is American made.
Speaker 1: Everything is made right here in Colorado. Every component of
Speaker 1: the packs, the shelters, the clothing, all the stuff that
Speaker 1: you're making. I'd say that's super unique. And I know
Speaker 1: that everything I think I've heard, maybe you said before.
Speaker 1: But I mean there's no there's no corners cut really
Speaker 1: on anything. You're trying to use the best possible materials,
Speaker 1: the lightest white materials, and just not always the lightest weight.
Speaker 1: Definitely the best bang for the buck. It may be
Speaker 1: a little heavier sometimes but more durable, but the most functional.
Speaker 1: Sometimes sometimes it is the lightest weight. Um yeah it
Speaker 1: it uh uh. Cafar Oh actually was started by Patrick Smith,
Speaker 1: who who started Mountain Smith, which is back in the
Speaker 1: day was an extremely large mountaineering or backpacking company. Um.
Speaker 1: He sold that and then started Kafaro Internet. Sal uh
Speaker 1: he isn't put it's a rhino and Swahili so rhino
Speaker 1: tough gear when that comes from and Patrick, who's basically
Speaker 1: like a father to me. Now, um you know the
Speaker 1: short version. I came in here to test the pack
Speaker 1: and write a review about it, and I was like
Speaker 1: a bad penny. I guess I never went away. He
Speaker 1: had daughters. Um, you know all daughters and their husbands
Speaker 1: aren't early into hunting or the outdoors, and um it
Speaker 1: was a good fit. I think he uh saw in
Speaker 1: me a lot of him and his youth of um
Speaker 1: from survival or eating marmots or you know, it's one
Speaker 1: of those. I just did a podcast with someone else
Speaker 1: and they like one of the things. Patrick's like, you know,
Speaker 1: you ever had a mormaot And I was like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course I've had a mormot. Well, most people this
Speaker 1: day and age haven't eaten marmot or squirrel or e. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We talked about that on the podcast. You gotta skin
Speaker 1: him from the leg up. By the way of they
Speaker 1: taste kind of panty in Alaska, that's all I know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they do, they do everywhere. Um, they're not great either.
Speaker 1: They're a little tough sometimes, but I've eaten just about everything.
Speaker 1: But those were things he was maybe quizzing me before
Speaker 1: I worked. Here. We're backpack and we're back back into
Speaker 1: a lake, you know, keep minding seventy six now, um,
Speaker 1: so sixty nine and we'd hike in and I think,
Speaker 1: as uh, he's a he should have been a teacher
Speaker 1: or a you know, professor. He's very intelligent. His I
Speaker 1: feel dumb when I'm around him. His vocabularies off. He's
Speaker 1: been on the podcast some Yeah, I hadn't listened to
Speaker 1: it yet, but I want to. I want to hear him. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's I was trying to get him liquored up, because
Speaker 1: he's much funnier when he's whisked at a little whiskey
Speaker 1: in him. But uh, he would uh you know, I
Speaker 1: think he wanted to be able to teach me more,
Speaker 1: but I had had had good Um he's taught me
Speaker 1: more about being a man than he taught I didn't.
Speaker 1: There was a whole lot because that that phrase could
Speaker 1: mean a lot of things. Well, you hear people a
Speaker 1: lot of people talk about let's say, you know, like
Speaker 1: extreme ownership. Well that's not just some stuff you put
Speaker 1: on a T shirt. You know that that means owning
Speaker 1: up to you know, whether it's your fault or not.
Speaker 1: And as you take over a large company one way
Speaker 1: or another, it's your fault. Whether it's your fault or not,
Speaker 1: in the end, it's your fault, right. So and and
Speaker 1: obviously I had some leadership um uh skills behind me before.
Speaker 1: But he also taught me to you know, calm down.
Speaker 1: Um a pretty high strung guy, and uh he taught
Speaker 1: you know, he also, you don't need to take over
Speaker 1: the world. You need to be happy. And you know
Speaker 1: he even worries about me now stressing out and and
Speaker 1: he is the kind of guy that if I was
Speaker 1: super stressful, no matter what was going on, he'd walk
Speaker 1: in and be like, you need to go out in
Speaker 1: the woods. And he's like, you know, take four or
Speaker 1: five days and uh, you know, get away. And also
Speaker 1: that when you when you test things, um, you know,
Speaker 1: not answering this question very well, but he would not
Speaker 1: come out with some products for ten years of testing.
Speaker 1: And so he you know, never rush anything like take
Speaker 1: as long as it needs to be to be tested,
Speaker 1: which is why we don't have a lot of failure years, um,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I just uh, you know, as
Speaker 1: far as taking care of family, uh, everything like that
Speaker 1: and just being a better person. Um, you know, he's
Speaker 1: been very good at me about that. As far as
Speaker 1: the outdoors, there wasn't a whole lot for me to learn.
Speaker 1: I'm not not saying that on a bragging aspect. It's
Speaker 1: just I've been able to do so much what I
Speaker 1: did need to learn or what he wanted to teach me.
Speaker 1: I'm not a gun guy, and so he's a reloading fool.
Speaker 1: I might as well be talking about golf. It's just
Speaker 1: not my thing. And I he actually made fun of
Speaker 1: me a bit for being a bow hunter. He's like,
Speaker 1: why do you do that? Not youren't gonna kill anything,
Speaker 1: and he didn't say it like that, but basically, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I'm pretty good with this thing, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think the first year I worked here, I
Speaker 1: think I put a flipped over seventeen or twenty animals
Speaker 1: and he never brought it up again. Um So now
Speaker 1: he's very intrigued following along because I'll go on hunts
Speaker 1: like that our dad hunted. He's out dad hunted and
Speaker 1: was like, man, that's almost in possible. And got him
Speaker 1: with a stick, him with a stick on first day.
Speaker 1: Basically run a mile to get him, but I got
Speaker 1: him either way. Hey, let me let me go back
Speaker 1: to Let me go back to uh the question that
Speaker 1: you said, because I liked what you said about you
Speaker 1: learned how to be a man. What would you say,
Speaker 1: Aaron is like inside of that process? How are you
Speaker 1: forty two or something? Working on what? What have been
Speaker 1: your biggest struggles inside of life? Not not even talking
Speaker 1: about bow hunting, but I mean you, I appreciate your
Speaker 1: and I think this is why people like you and
Speaker 1: respect you even if they don't like you is is
Speaker 1: your your your It's clear that your passion and extreme
Speaker 1: dedication to the things you commit yourself to are legit
Speaker 1: and honestly, most people don't have the internal technology or
Speaker 1: architecture inside of them to really commit themselves to something.
Speaker 1: Um what so what? What would have been struggles inside
Speaker 1: of your life that you have overcome that? And that's
Speaker 1: a broad, sweeping question and a personal question. That's a
Speaker 1: good question. I tell you what I haven't overcome is
Speaker 1: over commitment. Um. You know, and you hear all kinds
Speaker 1: of stories about me that I'm like a royal a
Speaker 1: hole to some people, and then you talk to guys
Speaker 1: that are close to me and they're like, He's the
Speaker 1: most giving dude I've ever met in my life. I
Speaker 1: mean to a point. Jake Jake Downs is a guy
Speaker 1: that recently and I come friends and he's like worried.
Speaker 1: I've been so nice to him. And one of the
Speaker 1: things when you're that nice, sometimes you over commit. I'll
Speaker 1: overcommit on hunts. We just talked about that, where, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I I get I want to help so
Speaker 1: many people and then I end up letting some of
Speaker 1: them down. That's a problem I price struggle with was
Speaker 1: my whole life because you just can't, you know, with
Speaker 1: a busy schedule. I do my best. But one of
Speaker 1: the things I've said I've i've overcome the most is
Speaker 1: my I have a temper. I have a when I
Speaker 1: say temper, not fly off the handle all the time,
Speaker 1: passive aggressive temper. I'll let things slide and slide and slide,
Speaker 1: and the next thing you know, I'm choke slimming a dude.
Speaker 1: Um true story, Like that's happened many times to where
Speaker 1: and Patrick's helped out with that where I really have
Speaker 1: been able to take a big step back, look at
Speaker 1: the giant, broader picture, um assess and then get everyone together,
Speaker 1: whether it be just me and another guy or me
Speaker 1: and twenty other people, and kind of assess and look
Speaker 1: at it from all sides of the fence, if that
Speaker 1: makes any sense. Like there's always if you and I
Speaker 1: have an issue and you talk to a guy, you're
Speaker 1: gonna be right. And I'm looking at kolbe Jack here
Speaker 1: and if I'm gonna be right if they talk to me.
Speaker 1: I've gotten really good at taking a step back and say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm owning up to this part of it. But
Speaker 1: this parts yours man, and and and that's been something
Speaker 1: I've really tried to work on as a leader in
Speaker 1: a person, just being direct with people. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: it's hard for people. It's very hard for people to
Speaker 1: be I like people to be very direct me. Um
Speaker 1: that people do not deal well with that. Let me
Speaker 1: ask you something about I think part of part of
Speaker 1: manhood is also humility. And what's interesting and I think
Speaker 1: what people perceive about you is that you're because I mean,
Speaker 1: some people could say, um, well, there's a there's a
Speaker 1: part of just knowing who you are and confidence in
Speaker 1: your identity. Just as I just am what I am
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna undersell it and I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: oversell it. I just am who I am. And I
Speaker 1: think you're good at uh, you're good at just saying hey,
Speaker 1: I'm a good traditional archery shot. I've committed the last
Speaker 1: three years of my life to becoming that. And if
Speaker 1: some people said it, they would say that guy is arrogant,
Speaker 1: that guy is blowing smoke. You know, people still say
Speaker 1: that about me all the time. I think they do.
Speaker 1: But and they may, they may, and maybe they have
Speaker 1: the right to say that. But I think that what
Speaker 1: you have that I have seen dealing with you on
Speaker 1: a personal level is I think you're I think humility
Speaker 1: is inside there, which is good. Let me just put
Speaker 1: it that way, because I talked to a few people
Speaker 1: about this, because I'm like, I don't consider myself arrogant.
Speaker 1: I consider myself very confident. But from what I know
Speaker 1: of arrogant people, they're not able to say I suck
Speaker 1: at this, or this was my fault, or where I'm
Speaker 1: the first guy to say I suck at guns, or man,
Speaker 1: I'm horrible a paperwork, or hey, Clay, I'm an idiot.
Speaker 1: I forgot to send you this article. You know what
Speaker 1: if And I think that's what I'm saying is that
Speaker 1: you're you take responsibility, You're you're just confident in who
Speaker 1: you are. And I think that's what I think, that's
Speaker 1: what all of us really are are are trying to do,
Speaker 1: is just walking our identity. One thing that we talked
Speaker 1: a lot about inside of our church and stuff is identity.
Speaker 1: Knowing who you are. Identity is power. Yeah, really I
Speaker 1: didn't know, and who you are in in and not
Speaker 1: trying to be something you're not and not trying to
Speaker 1: you know, just you are who you are and and
Speaker 1: utilizing all the things that that you have for for
Speaker 1: the minute what you're doing. No, I agree, And I'm
Speaker 1: as far as on the spiritual side, I'm a bit
Speaker 1: of an odd duck because I am not the most
Speaker 1: spiritual person in the world. But I watched Joe Alstein
Speaker 1: the blinker um and he he didn't think that this
Speaker 1: was gonna happen, was going to come up. I'm a
Speaker 1: unique dude when and I you know, I say, as
Speaker 1: I say that, I'm sure I'll get arrogant comments about that.
Speaker 1: But like I've read the book The Five Love Languages
Speaker 1: like three times to make sure I'm a good husband.
Speaker 1: The first time I read it was because I got
Speaker 1: a divorce, um, and it actually helped me pick up chicks.
Speaker 1: The second time I read it because I didn't want
Speaker 1: to lose one. And the third time I read it
Speaker 1: motivation there I don't know, you know, and it was
Speaker 1: I mean being honest. And the third time I read
Speaker 1: it is to make sure I keep the one I
Speaker 1: got um. And there are times and and things that
Speaker 1: I will like with Joelstein. Am I watching it for
Speaker 1: maybe the same reasons you two are, Maybe maybe not,
Speaker 1: But I'm definitely watching it to become a better person.
Speaker 1: And when he had talked about that, and and Amy
Speaker 1: is a bit of enamored my wife from time to
Speaker 1: time because I'll I'll say, yeah, man, I can shoot,
Speaker 1: you know what I can shoot? And then you talk
Speaker 1: about Turkey combat. Man, I suck with a diaphragm. I
Speaker 1: just can't. I can't do it, man, that's all you.
Speaker 1: I don't find that. I like people that have those
Speaker 1: characteristics to where one of the reasons I Frank and
Speaker 1: Jake down some Cody, three guys that are I'm super
Speaker 1: close with is they'll do the same thing. They'll they're
Speaker 1: gonna tell me they're strong points, and I want to
Speaker 1: hear them, and they're gonna be honest with their week
Speaker 1: because those are just important as a strong ones. Like
Speaker 1: if you think I'm all all not me, someone is
Speaker 1: all everything in the world, and then you find out
Speaker 1: pretty soon they they are deficient in in half of
Speaker 1: them and excellent in the other half. That's bad. You
Speaker 1: need to know the deficiencies. And so I try to
Speaker 1: just be as upfront as I can of what I'm
Speaker 1: good at or not good at. That's a good that's
Speaker 1: a good segue to maybe, uh, a couple of other things.
Speaker 1: Let me go ahead and say just for because we
Speaker 1: I've already got off track here, but I don't really
Speaker 1: have a track. I wanted to talk to you about kafaro.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you about some about your
Speaker 1: traditional archery. There's We've got quite a few listeners that
Speaker 1: I think listen to this podcast because we don't focus
Speaker 1: on traditional archery, but you know, we end up talking
Speaker 1: about it because I've hunt quite a bit with trad
Speaker 1: equipment um. And then thirdly I want to eventually get
Speaker 1: two bears. Um. But but it's good to hear a
Speaker 1: little bit about the you know, kind of your backstory
Speaker 1: and uh and really some of your maybe motivations and
Speaker 1: maybe maybe that's a good question. We'll take this question
Speaker 1: and then we'll go to trad archery. Okay, all right?
Speaker 1: What what are your what are your goals inside of hunting? Mean?
Speaker 1: Like if you get to hunt as much as you
Speaker 1: do And that's even a broader statement from even a professional,
Speaker 1: because I know you're in the outdoor industry, Um, like
Speaker 1: what are you what are you trying to do? Aaron?
Speaker 1: What would what would the end goal of Aaron Snyder
Speaker 1: in twenty years if everything goes away that you would
Speaker 1: hope it would. What what would that be? You know?
Speaker 1: Somebody asked me this recently, and I don't think they
Speaker 1: got the answer out of me. I wanted, honestly, my
Speaker 1: my number one goal is to be able to go
Speaker 1: hunt all the time and be off social media. I
Speaker 1: do not like social media at all, but I'm forced.
Speaker 1: I mean, I like, as I say that, I love
Speaker 1: afflicted a bit on that well. I love helping people,
Speaker 1: and I like telling people the story because it motivates him.
Speaker 1: I don't know how many emails I've got about saving
Speaker 1: guys lives diets, Um, guys are talking about committing suicide.
Speaker 1: Before you came in, I spent twenty minutes talking on
Speaker 1: the phone with a dude that was ready to quit
Speaker 1: his job because he was freezing running a jackhammer. And
Speaker 1: his buddy said, you gotta listen to parroadcast. This dude
Speaker 1: was a construction worker, and he said, saved his job.
Speaker 1: He listens to no any it's from Montana. I don't
Speaker 1: know who he was, um, but those things keep you going.
Speaker 1: But I also I'm not a limelight person, and sometimes
Speaker 1: I'll get flak about that, and I'm like like thinking,
Speaker 1: if you knew me, like lander will tell you, like
Speaker 1: he laughs, because people come into camp and I'm like
Speaker 1: shining and going in the corner. I'm just not good
Speaker 1: at that. I look down a lot for whatever reason
Speaker 1: and public and I have trouble looking in people's eyes.
Speaker 1: It's just not my thing. Remy Warren seems to be
Speaker 1: a lot like that too from what I've seen. But Mike,
Speaker 1: really my goal is just ton as much as I
Speaker 1: possibly can, spend as much time in the field as
Speaker 1: I possibly can. I've got no goals of the the
Speaker 1: super Slam or certain you know, like whatever like they're
Speaker 1: I'll have a goal like we're talking about, I'm really
Speaker 1: wanting to shoot, um a really big mountain goat, try
Speaker 1: to shoot the largest with a stickbow. But that's not
Speaker 1: because I'm an enter in the record book. That's just
Speaker 1: because I'm a goal oriented guy. Really not, you know,
Speaker 1: That's just what I'm going in with. But it's the
Speaker 1: way my brain works. Like when people said I couldn't
Speaker 1: kill an now dad with a stickbow, I really was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna figure it out.
Speaker 1: You know and if I don't get it done, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I And it's so just from where does that
Speaker 1: come from? Aaron? Like? Because it it? It's it. Do
Speaker 1: you have something to prove? You know? Because Lander has
Speaker 1: so Lander was a shrink, right, did you know it? All? Right? So?
Speaker 1: Landers had me on the couch multiple times. I've got
Speaker 1: some dad issues in this talking about we're talking about
Speaker 1: Jeff Lander with Primitive Outfit and British Columbia, my dad
Speaker 1: who you skipped out on me because I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: there next week and Aaron was supposed to be there.
Speaker 1: You're supposed to have this podcast in British Columbia over
Speaker 1: the hot of a dead bear with the smell of
Speaker 1: bloody hands. But it was the one outside. We do
Speaker 1: have a bloody we do have a bear hide in
Speaker 1: the mule trailer. Aeron. We're clo man, We're totally get
Speaker 1: out track. We're training mules as we speak. Did you
Speaker 1: know that I've got a bear hide trailer with with
Speaker 1: my young mule who wouldn't let me put the bear
Speaker 1: hide on her, and so she's been riding with the
Speaker 1: bear hide in the trailer for the last five or
Speaker 1: six hours. It's been below forty degrees, so anyway motivation, no, no,
Speaker 1: no proven something that got something to prove a man,
Speaker 1: I would say, um m m. And hopefully my mom
Speaker 1: doesn't listen to this. I do not have a great
Speaker 1: relationship with my dad at all, um, and he not
Speaker 1: a great dad and it wasn't really you never got
Speaker 1: a good job from him ever. And if I was
Speaker 1: to guess, that's between him and then my coach football,
Speaker 1: coach Perkins in a good way, My coach Perkins. Uh
Speaker 1: that um, you know one basically left me to like,
Speaker 1: is anything ever good enough? In the reality was he
Speaker 1: just never paid enough attention. But and then Perkins showing
Speaker 1: me you can anything is attainable as a human if
Speaker 1: you work at it hard enough. Because really influential. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd kill building full of people to keep him safe.
Speaker 1: He's the guy for me and uh and I do
Speaker 1: a bad job of keeping up with him, but he's
Speaker 1: he's been on the podcast before. But really a turning
Speaker 1: point in my life because as a pecker head, as
Speaker 1: a kid, I fought a lot um to where he
Speaker 1: you know, he he made you want to be a
Speaker 1: better person. And when you succeeded or you failed, he
Speaker 1: was there to say, suck it up, man, butch up,
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to try harder. And when you succeeded,
Speaker 1: he was there to say, hey, man, that's what happens
Speaker 1: when you know you put the work in, and that
Speaker 1: work ethic is what carried through. Now as I say
Speaker 1: that I have trouble filing my taxes, I can't remember
Speaker 1: to take the garbage out. But if you want a
Speaker 1: race to the top of a mountain, or you tell
Speaker 1: me something can't be done, I'm gonna find a way
Speaker 1: or I'm gonna try. Um. And I think, uh, that
Speaker 1: kind of discipline, you know, and and and that ability
Speaker 1: to not do very good at failing came from those
Speaker 1: one my dad who's and then sorry you might want
Speaker 1: to write down and then uh perfect, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: in a lot of other people along the way. But
Speaker 1: I think that's what you know at that young of
Speaker 1: an age. I'm amazed how much that in a good
Speaker 1: and bad way? So where where does that Where does
Speaker 1: that stop? Aaron? I don't know if it ever will,
Speaker 1: probably till the day I die. I mean it hasn't yet.
Speaker 1: Well you know what I think, I think, insight, it's
Speaker 1: probably the most powerful tool that we have as humans
Speaker 1: to be able to perceive the things because everything that's
Speaker 1: happened to us does have influence on us. I mean really,
Speaker 1: like I mean I think about I think about my
Speaker 1: hunting because I mean that's a big focal point inside
Speaker 1: my life. I mean, aside from obviously my family and
Speaker 1: my wife, my children are absolute number one priority, but
Speaker 1: I mean from a outside of that, I mean, hunting
Speaker 1: is a focal point. And I my dad was he
Speaker 1: was a great dad, and he he was a bow
Speaker 1: hunt or he was bo hunting before bo hunting was cool.
Speaker 1: But I received a ton of validation. The most validation
Speaker 1: that I received as a kid was when I killed
Speaker 1: something brought it home and Dad was like, good job.
Speaker 1: I mean, And so sometimes I look at that Aaron
Speaker 1: now and say, am I still you know you gotta
Speaker 1: you gotta monitor your motivations, Like am I Am I
Speaker 1: still chasing validation inside of this? And is that the
Speaker 1: correct thing for my life? And you know, these are
Speaker 1: things I think about all the time because the decisions
Speaker 1: you make inside of your life and motivations for what
Speaker 1: you do are significant, you know. But now I'm glad
Speaker 1: the podcast is going down this road because sometimes we're
Speaker 1: not very serious on our podcast all the time, and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of quite honestly, your listeners may not
Speaker 1: want to listen to it. It's explicit and and there's
Speaker 1: not a lot of serious talk on there. And and
Speaker 1: I'm not very good. I'm not uh, Donnie Vincent or
Speaker 1: Brian call where I'm gonna write a poem, right, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna do it, right it when it comes to motivation, um,
Speaker 1: like I think people uh, without coming off to two
Speaker 1: ar again, I mean in the at the bottom line,
Speaker 1: you've got you, right, and that's all you've got. And
Speaker 1: that's one thing I like about bow hunting is I
Speaker 1: can't rely blame anyone else, right, it's all on you.
Speaker 1: And when I say on you, meaning you can buy
Speaker 1: the best gear in the world, right, mine is paying
Speaker 1: for outfitters. You can buy gimme hunts, but let's just
Speaker 1: publicly and hunts. Um. You know, it's all what you
Speaker 1: put into it, and it's common sense and field craft
Speaker 1: and in the whole nine yards and at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, right, I mean, you've got you and
Speaker 1: you're the only one to blame. And I think that's
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I like, um, solo backpack hunts,
Speaker 1: not necessarily solo, but backpack hunting is it's it's it's
Speaker 1: all on you. Um. I prefer that so. But I
Speaker 1: think though, if I was going to give people, you know, advice,
Speaker 1: is um, you know you get uh, you know, getting
Speaker 1: into the industry stuff? What am I get? You know?
Speaker 1: How do I get into the industry? And and and
Speaker 1: all these different questions and you know, really, if you
Speaker 1: just focus on what you're doing, being the most successful hunter,
Speaker 1: if that's what you want to do, the most successful hunter,
Speaker 1: the most successful shot, the best shot you can, industry
Speaker 1: is probably gonna come to you. Um. Well, when you
Speaker 1: need an article, you go to guys that shoot bears. Right,
Speaker 1: You're not going to guys that go on bear hunts. Generally,
Speaker 1: you're going on the guys who going bear hunts. In
Speaker 1: success people want to hear a success story. Well, if
Speaker 1: you focus on bear hunting, you shoot bears, Clay, maybe
Speaker 1: getting a hold of you, right, and rather than focusing
Speaker 1: on selfies and in the gym, right, nothing nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with going to the gym. I go every day, but
Speaker 1: focus on what you're wanting to do, and if that's
Speaker 1: be a greater, better hunter. Probably me forget some part
Speaker 1: of what what you said originally was that your goal
Speaker 1: is just to be a hunter man. I'm just like
Speaker 1: you in terms of getting into the outdoor industry. I
Speaker 1: never had a goal to be in the outdoor industry.
Speaker 1: I never had a goal to make a living in
Speaker 1: the outdoor industry. But my passion for it it found me,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I built my life back when
Speaker 1: I had no intentions of ever being at full time
Speaker 1: in the outdoor industry. I built my life around a
Speaker 1: prioritization of being in the woods when the white oak
Speaker 1: leaves turn maroon around October. That's what I That's what
Speaker 1: I built. Aside it from other motivations inside a family,
Speaker 1: I've had my own business because of that, and then
Speaker 1: things began to happen. But to this day, Colby and
Speaker 1: I were talking today Guys a lot of guys that
Speaker 1: do video. I hear them talking. It's it's like their
Speaker 1: passion is video and they love to hunt, so they
Speaker 1: do hunting videos. And and to me it's you know,
Speaker 1: and I think to you as well, and I think
Speaker 1: to a lot of people it's reversed to that. My
Speaker 1: passion is hunting. And then from that stems, well, we
Speaker 1: are gonna make media, We're gonna do video, we're gonna
Speaker 1: do photography, and so. But it's fueled from this place
Speaker 1: of man, we're hunters, and and I think that's a
Speaker 1: good that's a good core motivation. Not I want to
Speaker 1: be a famous hunter or not that I want to
Speaker 1: be well known, but it's just, man, that's I want
Speaker 1: to hunt. I wanna be a good hunter. I constantly
Speaker 1: respected growing up, just guys that were the real deal,
Speaker 1: legit guys that weren't looking for validation. I mean, they
Speaker 1: weren't looking for fame. They weren't looking to take their
Speaker 1: buck down and show it off at the parking lot.
Speaker 1: Even though I like to do that. That's good, but
Speaker 1: but the guys that were just legit, well, that's where
Speaker 1: that conflict internally comes from. For me, the first thing
Speaker 1: I do social media not bringing the deer down to
Speaker 1: the same thing though, right, The first thing I do
Speaker 1: is because I kind of I don't have to, but
Speaker 1: I put it on social media. Well, I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: in the business of selling backpacks and I have to
Speaker 1: get my name out there. And if you don't post
Speaker 1: what you've done you're kind of become inconsequential. You you
Speaker 1: become non existent, and so you have to I want
Speaker 1: to get to a point where I don't have to,
Speaker 1: all right, I just can go hunting and not have
Speaker 1: to worry about it. So, um as I say that,
Speaker 1: I have been very blessed, obviously, I just I started
Speaker 1: a narrow company with a guy broadheads of this company here. Um,
Speaker 1: I get to hunt more than i'd probably anyone day there,
Speaker 1: you know, I get to hunt a ton, and so
Speaker 1: I've been very blessed. It's just at the end of
Speaker 1: the road, I would like to just be able to
Speaker 1: go hunting and photography. I'm about as addictive to photography
Speaker 1: as I am traditional archery, and that's some great stuff.
Speaker 1: I love your Instagram, Yeah yeah, but liking your princes
Speaker 1: and stuff like you can really tell to a passion.
Speaker 1: Does that Does that ever help like bring calmerce slowness
Speaker 1: to you? Uh like hunting sometimes? No, not somewhat, you
Speaker 1: know what. I what It's kind of weird with photography.
Speaker 1: For a few years there I helped more than I
Speaker 1: hunted by far and the way the industry works. And
Speaker 1: there's a couple of guys specifically who like talked Craps
Speaker 1: saying and well, he never kills anything, he just helps people.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, man, what does the industry come to
Speaker 1: to where it's bad that I'm helping so many people?
Speaker 1: Because I I had shot enough stuff that I just
Speaker 1: like going along and taking pictures. Well, obviously in the
Speaker 1: position I mean now I kind of had to do
Speaker 1: a little bit of a role reversal and just start
Speaker 1: piling up animals. Um, but I'm lucky enough now where
Speaker 1: I'll take the camera with me and photograph my own
Speaker 1: hunts as well as many others. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you start talking about the reasons why you're out there.
Speaker 1: If you're out there to get more social media likes,
Speaker 1: you're out there for the wrong reason in in my opinion.
Speaker 1: If that's a byproduct of it, great, but you should
Speaker 1: be out there for the love of the animal, the
Speaker 1: love of the outdoors, the love of the sport, whatever
Speaker 1: you wanna call it. And for me, I think that shows. Uh,
Speaker 1: with the guys I hang out with it, they could
Speaker 1: care less if you know they're out there to hunt
Speaker 1: and and everything else that buy product of that. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just think like a lot of your still images
Speaker 1: really capture something, you know, I definitely I wrote an
Speaker 1: article about it, and you know, stopping time, that's what
Speaker 1: I try and do, you know, and and video is
Speaker 1: much better bright and I suck at video. Like my
Speaker 1: my meal deer hunt was horrible as me looking like
Speaker 1: I was in a concentration camp daily in my tent
Speaker 1: because the only time I turn it on. But I
Speaker 1: had amazing photos of the hunt. And if I can
Speaker 1: get um, you know, the best time is like in
Speaker 1: the misery of the hunt, if I can get a
Speaker 1: photo of that that really shows like like there's a
Speaker 1: photo of of my wife and she's got baggy eyes.
Speaker 1: She just woke up the stings coming out of the
Speaker 1: coffee where in that she's got her head lamp on,
Speaker 1: and it truly stopped. You could tell, like Jesus, she's tired.
Speaker 1: It's first thing in the morning, she's drinking coffee. I
Speaker 1: find nothing more gratifying than as much as shooting an animal,
Speaker 1: almost as being all, yeah, yeah, there's one on the
Speaker 1: wall back here of a of a of a doll
Speaker 1: sheep that I that I took that as another time
Speaker 1: where the guy's coming over the hill. Anyway, it's one
Speaker 1: of those where I'm like, I remember that like it
Speaker 1: was yesterday and was able to stop that time for
Speaker 1: a moment and for guys to remember it. So yeah, right, um,
Speaker 1: traditional archery, Aaron. Um, So to three years ago you
Speaker 1: started shooting trad archer thousand six, I'm gonna make a
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make a claim here, um, and we're not
Speaker 1: gonna test it. So it's just gonna people are just
Speaker 1: gonna have to make their own decision. I think at
Speaker 1: ten yards I could shoot with you with a trad bow.
Speaker 1: I think if we could go out in the parking
Speaker 1: lot right now by my mule trailer, ten yards, I
Speaker 1: could shoot with you. Aaron, I agree, Um, because I know,
Speaker 1: I know that you're you're you're a gap shooter, So
Speaker 1: ten yards is probably a little tough. Well, actually, ten
Speaker 1: yards you'd you'd be in trouble. Um, eighteen to twenty two,
Speaker 1: you might have trouble. But I don't shoot gap the
Speaker 1: whole I shoot gap out about twenty eight and and out.
Speaker 1: I shoot gap. I shoot instinctive inside of that, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, with with traditional archery, the first thing I'll
Speaker 1: say is I was catapulted ahead of everyone else because
Speaker 1: of the clumps with brock Hume out right here. I
Speaker 1: was just there shooting before it came over here. Um
Speaker 1: and I started shooting a stick bow actually more as
Speaker 1: to prove a point. Did a podcast I've told this
Speaker 1: story about the meantime, did a podcast on ethical shooting
Speaker 1: distance because I was the the a hole dropping bombs
Speaker 1: in a hundred yards and animals sometimes or even further
Speaker 1: with a compound and anyway, um wait, I can't even
Speaker 1: say a hole. Um, I'm just the uh. I gotta
Speaker 1: remember that for the when I keep talking. Um, I
Speaker 1: an acronyms are sketchy, Okay, gotcha. So I pretty much
Speaker 1: had broke down, you know, as far as what's ethical
Speaker 1: for a compound and a stick bow and and and
Speaker 1: I had made fun of stick boy hunters forever um
Speaker 1: and was about the farthest thing from a traditional archer.
Speaker 1: And I got a bunch of emails after that podcast
Speaker 1: about your your crappy hunter, your you know, pick up
Speaker 1: a stick bow and see how successful you are. And
Speaker 1: the way my mind works, which is I think Tom
Speaker 1: clumb is, I don't know if I enamored, but he's
Speaker 1: amazed by how my my brain works. And I sold
Speaker 1: every piece of compound equipment. I had literally inside of
Speaker 1: a week, I had a giant water of cash. I
Speaker 1: walked down to Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear and well the
Speaker 1: rest is history now. So yeah, that's how you got
Speaker 1: into it. Well the errand I had a so thirty
Speaker 1: seconds about my traditional archery career. Grew up compound hunting
Speaker 1: in two thousand five, started shooting a stick bow with
Speaker 1: somebody gave it to me, but never hunted with it. Uh,
Speaker 1: killed my first gear maybe in two thousand seven, but
Speaker 1: it was just like a half hat, you know. It
Speaker 1: was just like, I'm gonna try this for a couple
Speaker 1: of hunts, had been shooting, but then in two six
Speaker 1: It was a long story, but I ended up. I
Speaker 1: ended up through a unique situation, ended up giving away
Speaker 1: my bow two weeks before season, my compound bow, and
Speaker 1: and it wasn't really intentional, it was just something I
Speaker 1: felt like I needed to do, so I did it.
Speaker 1: And so the only thing that I had come in
Speaker 1: two weeks into season and sen was the stick bow,
Speaker 1: and I had killed by that time, I guess I
Speaker 1: had killed. I had killed two bears with it, and
Speaker 1: I had killed a deer with it. Killed the coyote
Speaker 1: with it, you know, but just peddled, never never committed.
Speaker 1: In sixteen is when that's all I had. And so
Speaker 1: I went into the sixteen season and uh and and
Speaker 1: killed seven animals in a row, two bears, four deer
Speaker 1: in a mountain lion with the traad bow that year.
Speaker 1: And it was a unique situation just like what you did.
Speaker 1: It's like when you have no other choice and you're
Speaker 1: a hunter, I mean you it almost it almost felt
Speaker 1: like I was a caveman that they dropped out in
Speaker 1: the woods and you know, you had sent you and
Speaker 1: some juniper and uh, some stone points, and you were like,
Speaker 1: you gotta survive. I mean that's why I felt, I
Speaker 1: mean even inside of from an outdoor media position, I
Speaker 1: mean like I understand, you know, I mean we're hunting
Speaker 1: and we're gathering content for It's like I needed to
Speaker 1: I needed to take some game. Yeah, and it but
Speaker 1: it but it was such a powerful experience to just
Speaker 1: be like I will either be successful with this or not.
Speaker 1: And I had a good streak and uh but anyway,
Speaker 1: so it sounds like that's what you did. You went
Speaker 1: cold turkey there for a year and then you got
Speaker 1: out of it for a while per year, well eight,
Speaker 1: you know whatever part of one season. It's um was
Speaker 1: for a couple of different reasons. One, the amount of
Speaker 1: money I lost in endorsement contracts is crappy, right, And
Speaker 1: you don't get paid to shoot a stick from okay,
Speaker 1: from compounds from compound. Yeah, and uh, there was a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot, a lot of pressure. But even
Speaker 1: today there's pressure to shoot a compound. I can shoot
Speaker 1: one pretty well and and um be successful with it,
Speaker 1: but how much the really the like the end of
Speaker 1: it of the compound was in in with Jeff Lander
Speaker 1: and we're in Alberta. I made a ridiculous stock, I
Speaker 1: mean like a one in a million chance to pull
Speaker 1: this off, and I made it, shot a buck and
Speaker 1: not much excitement was going on adrenaline with the compound.
Speaker 1: And then Brian Broderick was with me. He's a guy
Speaker 1: partnered up with on day six Um Broderick. The same
Speaker 1: day that afternoon we went on a stock and the
Speaker 1: adrenaline level I had when he had his longbow in
Speaker 1: my hand and he knew what he could see it
Speaker 1: in my eyes. He's like, yeah, he's coming back to
Speaker 1: the dark side or the bright side. And everyone look
Speaker 1: at it. And when he shot that animals, I don't know,
Speaker 1: seven yards or something. Um, I was you know, in
Speaker 1: my mind, I didn't tell anybody. In my mind, I'm thinking, man,
Speaker 1: this is what is my passion? Like, what am I
Speaker 1: doing shooting the compound? Um? And I you know, there's
Speaker 1: always there's a lot of compound guys that hate on
Speaker 1: stickbow guys. I was one of them, and you know
Speaker 1: they used as an excuse to suck um. And I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, I, um, I think I can be a
Speaker 1: success will or more so with this stick. I just
Speaker 1: have to buckle down. And and I've never said this
Speaker 1: before on a podcaster to anybody, but in my mind,
Speaker 1: I thought, I'm going to prove to myself I can
Speaker 1: be more lethal with a stickbow than I ever was,
Speaker 1: or anyone can be with a compound. And I'm again
Speaker 1: I sound arrogant. I'm doing a good job. We got
Speaker 1: first this podcast we talked about, but I I wanted
Speaker 1: to be at a position and it's happened where if
Speaker 1: a stickbo a compound guy is making fun of a
Speaker 1: stickbow guy, I can be like the most Now I've
Speaker 1: kind of been humbled the last year with my stickbow.
Speaker 1: But before that, errand when I came out of that,
Speaker 1: the streak of I may have been seven. I think
Speaker 1: it was seventeen when I had the the seven animals
Speaker 1: in a row. You've got no choice but to feel
Speaker 1: like and this is the way that I've said it,
Speaker 1: when I pick up that stickbow, I have got to
Speaker 1: feel like that I can kill any critter on the
Speaker 1: planet in any situation or or or I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: be successful because the thing that with the big transition
Speaker 1: for me, um would have been that for years because
Speaker 1: I told you I gotta well, I actually gotta stick bow.
Speaker 1: In two thousand one, uh, David Albright Bowyer in Arkansas
Speaker 1: gave me one. But for ten years I wasn't convinced
Speaker 1: that it was an efficient killing weapon. I mean, I
Speaker 1: was just like, I'm not gonna kill stuff because this
Speaker 1: bow won't kill stuff, which is ridiculous. They're extremely efficient weapon.
Speaker 1: The mankind has been birthed on the meat harvested by
Speaker 1: traditional boats for the last ten thousand years. Killed in
Speaker 1: combat with arrows, and they have bullets in history, and
Speaker 1: that's before a compound. Because nobody's died in combat from
Speaker 1: a compound so giving an idea. Yeah, yeah, but that
Speaker 1: but that attitude. So I'm identifying with that attitude of man,
Speaker 1: I've got to know and not not doubt myself because
Speaker 1: when you because so much a traditional archery is mental,
Speaker 1: I mean massively mental, and only as good as your
Speaker 1: last shot, and if your last shot was a bad one,
Speaker 1: you be able to be able to take it on
Speaker 1: the chin and get back up, or you're gonna have
Speaker 1: a long, long bad streak. Um. And that I mean,
Speaker 1: that's really just how it is. Um. There's not really
Speaker 1: you know, any way around that. Um. I think Landers
Speaker 1: brought up to me, He's like, what are you gonna
Speaker 1: What's gonna happen when you have a bad year? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not gonna have a bad year. It's
Speaker 1: like it's not in me. You know, I probably will, right,
Speaker 1: but I'm like I can't let that go on in
Speaker 1: my mind. I'm like, I got it. I'm just not
Speaker 1: gonna have a bad year. Now. I've had some bad hunts.
Speaker 1: You know. That mule deer hunt was one that UM
Speaker 1: was was rough. Um. I pissed blood. I shouldn't have
Speaker 1: said the P word p blood twice. UM had some
Speaker 1: kind of fungus on my hand. Um growing from whatever
Speaker 1: in twelve days into it ten days a hunting whatever
Speaker 1: it was, I still hadn't had a buck on the ground.
Speaker 1: Without a doubt, one pent season would have been over
Speaker 1: the first day with a compound. Um Lander had told
Speaker 1: me you will eventually get to a point where you
Speaker 1: won't go on a stock and say I could have
Speaker 1: killed it with my compound, and I didn't believe them,
Speaker 1: but it has happened. It will still cross my mind.
Speaker 1: But the feeling I get after I finally pulled it
Speaker 1: off with a stick boat is far greater than anything
Speaker 1: I've felt with a compound. It's more self fulfilling, I
Speaker 1: guess you could say, um and so being driven our
Speaker 1: goal oriented like I am and everything else. The stick
Speaker 1: boat is just a good, good fit, and I have
Speaker 1: had a good streak of success and hopefully that continues. Okay,
Speaker 1: here's my next question is I'm I ask you a
Speaker 1: question and then I gotta tell Colby something. But I
Speaker 1: don't want to forget the question what comes after this
Speaker 1: once you've accomplished it, because I know that happens inside
Speaker 1: of me. I set a goal to do something, whether
Speaker 1: it's a specific type of hunt, a specific way to
Speaker 1: do it. So that's the question. You've got five seconds
Speaker 1: to think about it, Kobe, why don't you go check
Speaker 1: on our mules. We got our mules out in the
Speaker 1: out in the parking lot. I had to do this
Speaker 1: last podcast too, but I didn't do it on the air.
Speaker 1: I think that, uh, probably, once I get to a
Speaker 1: point where I'm fulfilled enough, I guess with the stick bow,
Speaker 1: I'll probably just help other guys and photographed their homes.
Speaker 1: I don't know that it will be another hunted. Do
Speaker 1: you ever see yourself going more primitive? I mean, is
Speaker 1: that's something you're interested in? Not not now, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean like stone I mean because the progression you know,
Speaker 1: is to go to like a self bow with a
Speaker 1: stone point and stuff like that. Yeah, no, not not now.
Speaker 1: I might go to a long bow at some point,
Speaker 1: which really might maybe a lateral transition. You know, it's
Speaker 1: not really that different the um I don't not so
Speaker 1: much um right now? That could change. Um really, if
Speaker 1: I didn't have the love for photography and in photographing
Speaker 1: other people's hunts, that might be different. But if I
Speaker 1: get to a point where, um, you know, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, this is still fun, but man, I'd really
Speaker 1: like to go with you know, Clay on a hunt.
Speaker 1: I probably just travel around photographing hunts and occasionally hunting. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't think that that's gonna do You hear older
Speaker 1: hunters talk about this transition, this natural transition inside of hunting,
Speaker 1: and I bet you're just like me that when you
Speaker 1: were thirty years old, you said, there's no way that
Speaker 1: that's ever gonna happen. So the transition would be originally
Speaker 1: you're just like interested in harvesting game, and then you
Speaker 1: go to more goal orientation, which is like I want
Speaker 1: to kill a specific animal in a specific way, in
Speaker 1: a specific place. And then you get to this place
Speaker 1: where you want to help others and and I've heard
Speaker 1: some people talk negatively about that, like, man, I'll I'll
Speaker 1: fight to never lose that drive to kill stuff. And
Speaker 1: that's probably what I would have said ten years ago, Aaron,
Speaker 1: because that's to me, that's a definer of a successful hunter,
Speaker 1: is like this no quid attitude. And I mean, inside
Speaker 1: of hunting, the goal is to harvest the target animal.
Speaker 1: But and so I kind of feared that transition. But
Speaker 1: I'm I'm thirty nine. I'm I'm thirty nine years old
Speaker 1: the up check birthday here, and I sort of feel
Speaker 1: it now I have I have four kids that hunt.
Speaker 1: But I'm still massively driven for to harvest. And I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that I don't want to, but I can
Speaker 1: kind of see where, like and it's not something to
Speaker 1: be afraid of, like getting to where you're talking about,
Speaker 1: like where maybe there comes this point where you've proven
Speaker 1: and I I track it inside of my help myself
Speaker 1: by the goals that I've accomplished over the years, you know,
Speaker 1: Like there was a point when I said, my goal
Speaker 1: is to kill a three and a half year old
Speaker 1: buck or older in Arkansas every year with a bow.
Speaker 1: That was my goal when I was twenty five, and
Speaker 1: at the time that was a massive goal in Arkansas
Speaker 1: hunt is pretty tough. And I did it. I did
Speaker 1: it for ten years and I was like, you know
Speaker 1: what I can do that. I still enjoy killing the
Speaker 1: buck in Arkansas with my bow. Um, now I've I've
Speaker 1: transitioned to bears. I mean, like and then that's been
Speaker 1: a lifelong thing. But like especially the last six years
Speaker 1: with the magazine, it's like my my goals seemed to
Speaker 1: be to travel all over North America killing bears in
Speaker 1: different We just came back from Montown on spotting stock
Speaker 1: mule based rifle hunt. I mean, and like that was
Speaker 1: pretty thrilling to me, even from a long range. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're carrying a best of the West long range husky
Speaker 1: moss scope that I could have taken a bear at
Speaker 1: a long ways And that was so different from what
Speaker 1: I grew up in. It was kind of intriguing and
Speaker 1: uh point being like, I've got this new set of goals,
Speaker 1: but so are you afraid of that transitioner? No, it
Speaker 1: could be a no brains, no headache thing, but um,
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm gonna hit that transition. I'm different
Speaker 1: in that way. If if as far as like being
Speaker 1: uh without coming off sounding like a Neanderthal and I'm
Speaker 1: desk Lander, He'll tell you you got about put a
Speaker 1: shot caller on me. I haven't you know, people like, oh,
Speaker 1: you'll be better trophy hunters you get older. Not so much.
Speaker 1: It's not hitting me too much. I mean, being as
Speaker 1: honest as I can be. Um, it's pretty bad. Um,
Speaker 1: it's still bad. Like I haven't calmed down much and
Speaker 1: but if it evolves, I mean, you know, that's maybe
Speaker 1: my brain doesn't work quite that way. And I think
Speaker 1: that in some ways, I guess it has evolved to
Speaker 1: a little bit, but some of it's just by the
Speaker 1: structure of the hunt. Meaning if I go to Oklahoma
Speaker 1: and they say don't shoot a five and a half
Speaker 1: year or a four and a half or younger buck,
Speaker 1: I'm very very good obedient. I don't want to screw
Speaker 1: that up. I shoot a five and a hal af
Speaker 1: year old deer. The problem is, if I didn't have
Speaker 1: that rule, there's no telling what I would shoot. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying I'm gonna shoot a for key,
Speaker 1: but I probably would have some trouble maintaining that five
Speaker 1: and a half year old. That's just me um And
Speaker 1: and Landers will be the first guy to tell you
Speaker 1: that I am the happiest guy alive, whether it's a
Speaker 1: hundred fifty a hundred ninety in deer, and I just
Speaker 1: like hunting. Um. Now, I want to get beat up
Speaker 1: in the middle of it. I don't want to give
Speaker 1: me two deer. I want to work for one. And
Speaker 1: it's hard for people to understand because everybody's brains work differently.
Speaker 1: I would rather see a guy earn a hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty inch mule deer than shoot a gimme two hundred.
Speaker 1: The deer doesn't matter to me, it's the story behind it,
Speaker 1: and a lot of guys didn't believe that until they hunted,
Speaker 1: with me Lander being one of them, I truly wanted
Speaker 1: to see. I. I like the adventure of the hunt,
Speaker 1: and the animal is kind of I'm not taking away
Speaker 1: from the animal. I'm just saying that the animal is
Speaker 1: a byproduct of the hunt. The hunt is what's important.
Speaker 1: But I also think that if you're out, they're not
Speaker 1: taking animals. You know, maybe take up golf or maybe
Speaker 1: put some more effort into it, unless you just like
Speaker 1: to hike around. Because a lot of people seem to hunt.
Speaker 1: To just go hunting, there's nothing wrong with that, but
Speaker 1: you also have to you know, you can't. You can
Speaker 1: only blame yourself, and so maybe you should focus less
Speaker 1: on buying the coolest, newest gear and maybe focus more
Speaker 1: on theo craft and shooting your bow or something. Um.
Speaker 1: Not to get off the subject to that, but you
Speaker 1: get out of it what you put into it. And
Speaker 1: you can't believe anybody but yourself. Okay, last traditional archery
Speaker 1: question unless you want to talk about something else there.
Speaker 1: So inside of all this, uh, all this talk with
Speaker 1: the clumb method, which I've been I've been just recently
Speaker 1: kind of following some of that, and and and and
Speaker 1: it's influenced some of the things that I'm doing some
Speaker 1: of some of it. I told Colby some of these things.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was kind of I mean, I didn't.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a dramatic, dramatic shift with a few things, Aaron,
Speaker 1: what would you say is the most impacting thing inside
Speaker 1: of your traditional archery form and shot? So we're getting
Speaker 1: like tech nerd traad archery because I know there's all
Speaker 1: these there's all these different things that you could say.
Speaker 1: What would you say it would be the most the
Speaker 1: most critical component of an accurate shooter in terms of mechanics. Man,
Speaker 1: it'd be hard to pick just one um. In fact,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do it because then that would like
Speaker 1: sell it way short. But I would have to say,
Speaker 1: just um, the general shot execution, as far as the
Speaker 1: proper steps um that you take initially, meaning you know,
Speaker 1: having this I'm gonna simplify it, having the same anchor
Speaker 1: point every time, having the same clean release every time.
Speaker 1: Repeatability is extremely important. But I'm gonna squirrel, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: rabbit hole really bad. I just read an article in
Speaker 1: a magazine that basically pooh pooed on three under and
Speaker 1: gap shooting, and you can't be success full that way. Um,
Speaker 1: that's what I do. And I've shot more animals and again,
Speaker 1: sound and arrogant anyone I know of in two years
Speaker 1: that humble comment. And this is where that's where I
Speaker 1: get in trouble is is statements like this, And I'm
Speaker 1: not saying it is a bragging thing. What I'm saying
Speaker 1: is if one guy wants to snap shoot and swing shoot,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna stop him, right. But to say that
Speaker 1: the method that I was taught by through Tom Clumb
Speaker 1: can't be successful hunting, well, I'm living proof that that
Speaker 1: is a lie. That is wrong. And how many snapshooters
Speaker 1: do you know? They can't hit a bullet. I'm about
Speaker 1: to cuss, I'm gonna rewind. They can't hit a barn wall. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they can't hit a barn wall from the inside of
Speaker 1: the barn. I know a lot of them. A lot
Speaker 1: of them actually give me crap about the strugglestick comment
Speaker 1: when I know they can't shoot worth the crap, I
Speaker 1: mean it, it is what it is. I think that
Speaker 1: if you get taught correctly out of the gate, you
Speaker 1: can choose to snapshoot if needed. If you get taught
Speaker 1: to snapshoot out of the gate, you cannot choose to
Speaker 1: shoot correctly. And that's not really an argument. The sun
Speaker 1: will come up tomorrow, It is as sure as that.
Speaker 1: How many snapshooters do you know? They have to close
Speaker 1: their eyes to hold a full draw pretty much everyone?
Speaker 1: I know how many guys that to that go to
Speaker 1: full draw and operate a c clicker correctly? Can you say, hey,
Speaker 1: will you snapshoot quick? And they can snap shoot? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So you're saying if you build the foundations right, then
Speaker 1: you have totally a lot more options inside you're shooting.
Speaker 1: As long as you've got mental control. Um, you can do.
Speaker 1: I mean, I snap shoot white tails all the time
Speaker 1: if they walk by and I gotta I'm not saying
Speaker 1: run by, but walking by, I can snapshoot. I'm not
Speaker 1: pulling through the clicker. Um, if it's a noise situation
Speaker 1: where there's a chance that that buck might I know
Speaker 1: when it's going to go off. To a certain degree.
Speaker 1: If I have to, you know, just start my back
Speaker 1: tension and fire a little early. I've made a conscious
Speaker 1: decision when to shoot that bow. When you're a snapshooter,
Speaker 1: there's no conscious decision. It hits your face and it's
Speaker 1: it's gone. There are some people that are decent that way,
Speaker 1: but for the most part, Um, the swing snap shooting
Speaker 1: is in my very short career, is a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 1: For longer, instinctive shooting by fred Aswell, I'm talking about
Speaker 1: fred Asbell. Yeah, don't follow anything that says um in
Speaker 1: my opinion, Okay, okay, if you if you want to
Speaker 1: have a lifelong history or a lifelong career of snapshooting
Speaker 1: and target panic, read that book and memorize it. And
Speaker 1: I'm not taking away from anything he's done for the sport.
Speaker 1: The guy has been amazing for it. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: if you don't want to get target panic and you
Speaker 1: want to be accurate, I would follow what That's the
Speaker 1: book that Tommy had to shoot traditional archer here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I can't say that I totally follow it, but
Speaker 1: the the ideas of instinctive shooting that he like, I
Speaker 1: still I did snapshoot for years, and dude, just I
Speaker 1: do to some degree still today and I and I
Speaker 1: want to tell you just my little just a short spill,
Speaker 1: but some of the ideas that he gave me gave
Speaker 1: me some foundations about bow arm A draw that was
Speaker 1: going to the same place every time, clean release. Now
Speaker 1: he was split fingers. At one point I saw Barry Winsell,
Speaker 1: I think, shoot three under. I had trouble for ten
Speaker 1: years with accuracy shooting split fingers, and one day I saw,
Speaker 1: I think it was Barry Winsell shoot with three under,
Speaker 1: and it just made snit sense. I literally got out
Speaker 1: of my turn the TV off of watching the DVD
Speaker 1: or something, went and got my bow and my shooting
Speaker 1: was like incredibly better. But let's see where am I
Speaker 1: going with this. I so that did give me some
Speaker 1: good foundation, just some mechanics. The idea that that bow
Speaker 1: will you the same every single time if you do
Speaker 1: the same thing every single time. Um, But that and
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing that can't be argued. And that's what
Speaker 1: There's things he says that I agree with. There's other
Speaker 1: things that are a recipe. Well, let's say he's got
Speaker 1: the strongest mine in the world, which he must have
Speaker 1: if he's never had target panic, um, the snapshooting letter,
Speaker 1: riptater chip. If you can do that, yeah, you're not
Speaker 1: going to have a problem. The problem is that most
Speaker 1: people can't. I think it's close range. And this is
Speaker 1: what I was gonna say. And my focus inside of
Speaker 1: traditional archery has not has been to kill game inside
Speaker 1: of fourteen yards. That in in in the way that
Speaker 1: I've done it, that's worked for me. I've I've I've
Speaker 1: wounded and missed less game with the traditional bow that
Speaker 1: I have with my compound. But it's because I've I've
Speaker 1: the style of hunting that which I'm not hunting out
Speaker 1: a way trying to stock a muleteer and get a
Speaker 1: forty yards shot, not hunting mountain goat. You know I'm hunting.
Speaker 1: So so I go back to that to say, you know,
Speaker 1: it does work if you have certain limitations. And that's
Speaker 1: the one thing I remember fred Asbo in his book
Speaker 1: saying is that and this doesn't go against you, please
Speaker 1: don't take it that but don't worry about that, but
Speaker 1: that you can either become a better shooter, you can
Speaker 1: become a better hunter. And so he was like, get closer.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I remember him saying. That's a
Speaker 1: twenty five year old reading that book. It was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: so if I can shoot this bow, and really for
Speaker 1: years it was ten yards. If I gotta get within
Speaker 1: ten yards a game, and then I can tend ring them.
Speaker 1: And so that became this cool concoction for me. That
Speaker 1: was fun and and and so. Anyway, so when I
Speaker 1: see guys like you, which i'm uh, you know, shooting
Speaker 1: at forty yards, man, I can't shoot at fort yards.
Speaker 1: I did challenge you jokingly on Facebook the other day
Speaker 1: and said that I could teach you something about traditional archery.
Speaker 1: I think knew that was a joke private message, of course.
Speaker 1: But it's never been my goal to shoot forty But
Speaker 1: I have been tried to be as good as I
Speaker 1: could out to fifteen killed some game out past twenty.
Speaker 1: But you know, and I don't and I'm trying again.
Speaker 1: I'll say it, I said it earlier. I'm not taking
Speaker 1: anything away from what that man has done for the sport,
Speaker 1: right yeah, I mean, but what I am saying is, um,
Speaker 1: if you, um well, I could pick a ton of
Speaker 1: different other athletes, but let's just focus on this. If
Speaker 1: if well, we're gonna use me for an example, and
Speaker 1: I'll take the brunt of it. And inside of a
Speaker 1: year with Tom Clumb, I was shooting paper plates are
Speaker 1: smaller at forty yards, winning pretty much every tournament I
Speaker 1: went to and shooting very well and having some success
Speaker 1: with hunting animals all over the place. I don't think
Speaker 1: that could be argued that that will work. Now will
Speaker 1: it work? And I and I've talked with the guys
Speaker 1: at Black Widow that um aspell whole to class there
Speaker 1: and it's ten fifteen yard shots. If that's what you're into,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna man. I'm the last guy to tell
Speaker 1: you to shoot farther. But I'm also I'm not going
Speaker 1: out there too. I'm going out there to shoot something.
Speaker 1: And uh, if I'm proficient at thirty four, that's gonna
Speaker 1: up my odds the forty yards a bit far. I've
Speaker 1: taken two animals at forty and it's certainly not what
Speaker 1: I prefer. But um you know, if there's a dear
Speaker 1: bed at thirty two, I can shoot softballs at thirty
Speaker 1: two all day. Do you want to close that distance
Speaker 1: by half? Or do you want to kill it where
Speaker 1: it lays? I'm gonna kill it where it's laying. UM,
Speaker 1: and if I can shoot closer. I've shot animals at
Speaker 1: four ft and at forty three yards and pretty much
Speaker 1: everywhere in between. I just don't think you can do
Speaker 1: it consistently past fifteen to eighteen without Tom's Yeah, I
Speaker 1: agree with it. I mean, that's been so before, and
Speaker 1: I'm starting to be influenced by I'd love to go
Speaker 1: do a class with him. UM, but what you just
Speaker 1: said is exactly right. I with the methods that I've used,
Speaker 1: I have been very proficient out the fift eighteen yards.
Speaker 1: And I mean, and that's problem maybe the limitation of
Speaker 1: a guy that is shooting that, and there's plenty of
Speaker 1: guys that could shoot better than that, because I think
Speaker 1: inside of that, then there's like the individual talent and
Speaker 1: skill and hand eye coordination and ability of the individual archer,
Speaker 1: which varies greatly. There's some guys that are just naturals,
Speaker 1: some guys that are not. I think I'm probably in
Speaker 1: the you know, I'm proficient with it. I'm I'm I'm
Speaker 1: in there. I'm not gonna say where I think I'm
Speaker 1: at point being I think I think that sometimes, especially
Speaker 1: the traditional archery world there's so much uh. Well, I
Speaker 1: think a guy's goals have to be factored in, and
Speaker 1: you're such a you're such a great uh and dominant
Speaker 1: personality inside of it. I guess you know it's not
Speaker 1: the only way. You know, what I'm saying, What you're
Speaker 1: saying the thousand percent right to be accurate out to forty.
Speaker 1: I'm totally convinced after what I've heard that, but a
Speaker 1: guy could still be successful inside of snapshooting just getting
Speaker 1: into fifteen yards. Yeah, and the big thing, just so
Speaker 1: I'm not taking too far out of context. How many
Speaker 1: people do you know are gonna be on the ninth
Speaker 1: they have a mule deer hunt snapshooting consistently or whatever
Speaker 1: you wanna call it, and have an animal at twenty
Speaker 1: and not take the shot, not more than any And
Speaker 1: so for for me, and again, I'm green, right, I
Speaker 1: just started doing this. That guy's been in here longer
Speaker 1: and I've been alive. Okay, so again, but it's gonna
Speaker 1: be hard to convince me that the most that that
Speaker 1: what Tom teaches is not the most proficient way, because
Speaker 1: you can choose to snap shoot with Tom, sister. I
Speaker 1: like that. I like what you just said that, and
Speaker 1: I think it probably is, but only that's all I know.
Speaker 1: But what I you know when I say that's all
Speaker 1: I know, I know of a bunch of thirty eight
Speaker 1: forty five year old to sixty year year old men
Speaker 1: that can't hold the string to their face without closing
Speaker 1: their eyes and literally short draw. And they tell me
Speaker 1: their bows seventy pounds at twenty eight, but they're drawn
Speaker 1: to a solid twenty five and a half because they're snapshooting.
Speaker 1: And I'm going off of what i've seen, and again
Speaker 1: I'm very blunt and very open. You can't take away
Speaker 1: what I've seen because I've seen it, and you can't
Speaker 1: take away the fact that I see guys that can't
Speaker 1: hit the bail at twenty yards and I'm not This
Speaker 1: isn't just the compound guys, the same way I'm not
Speaker 1: picking on trad archers. What I what I what I've seen, though,
Speaker 1: is tom take a guy brand new green, mold that
Speaker 1: guy into someone who's proficient in a very short period
Speaker 1: of time at twenty yards. He may never shoot past twenty,
Speaker 1: but he's also not going to suffer from target panic
Speaker 1: as quick. He's not going to suffer from short drawing
Speaker 1: is quick and when you um, well you're overbowed. But
Speaker 1: when you use the snapshooting method, it is very own
Speaker 1: to short drawing. Short drawing is bad. And um, trying
Speaker 1: to keep me out of this too too much? Um,
Speaker 1: I look at um the god, how' m gonna put
Speaker 1: this back in too much trouble? Um. There was a
Speaker 1: reason when I got into traditional archery, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to get into it. Okay, there wasn't really a spokesman,
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying I'm a spokesman, but there wasn't
Speaker 1: a spokesman that made it cool. Um, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of spokesman that make it cool. Now. That doesn't mean distance.
Speaker 1: That just means it's a cool thing to do. Um.
Speaker 1: And it's highlighted the the the reasons why you should
Speaker 1: be doing it to make it I say cool, but really,
Speaker 1: for two people want to do. What I always said
Speaker 1: was that trad archery. When I was growing up, shooting
Speaker 1: three D targets with my dad was all the old
Speaker 1: men's shot trad It was an old man's sport. But
Speaker 1: but now we've got this, this this cast of people
Speaker 1: that are making it cool. Yeah, I mean I'm excited
Speaker 1: at about it because it's changed me. It's not only
Speaker 1: just a hunter, but as a person. And I'm and
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm hunting for different reasons, but
Speaker 1: I'm I'm certainly um out there for the challenge, you know.
Speaker 1: And and and I don't want to think that I'm
Speaker 1: picking on the old crowd or as Bell. I'm just
Speaker 1: stating what I've seen. And it would be interested to
Speaker 1: have Tom and fred Is on a debate. I would
Speaker 1: like to hear them go back and forth. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna be able to do it. I've done long enough.
Speaker 1: They're gonna be like this guy's I bet they would.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to pit them against each other though, Aaron,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean like their methods are different, for sure,
Speaker 1: but just like in anything, there's different ways to do
Speaker 1: stuff with different goals. And and man, both of those guys,
Speaker 1: in my mind are are iconic heroes the traditional archery,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, But and I certainly wouldn't look
Speaker 1: at it as putting them against each other. What I
Speaker 1: would do is it gives to people to you know, waste, okay,
Speaker 1: Republican Democrat for guys green and just getting into you
Speaker 1: know who am I going to vote for. You're not
Speaker 1: putting two people against each other. You're just hearing and
Speaker 1: then they can choose for them. So I don't think
Speaker 1: there's any I don't think there's any conflict really, like
Speaker 1: in terms of I think people when they see Clumb's method,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I mean to me, and and I am.
Speaker 1: I told you, I was absolutely influenced by Asbell with
Speaker 1: his book. I've got it on my shelf. It's like
Speaker 1: it's like an iconic book taught me, got me started.
Speaker 1: And when I started seeing this stuff with Clum, I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, that makes sense. What he's saying makes
Speaker 1: a ton of sense. And and and I and I'm
Speaker 1: and I'm kind of gradually moving that direction. So I mean,
Speaker 1: and I think what we're seeing inside the traditional archery
Speaker 1: world is a natural progression that we find inside of everything.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's people that there's a way of
Speaker 1: doing things, and then all of a sudden, there's a
Speaker 1: new generation of people that say, hey, there's a there's
Speaker 1: a better way to do this. And then there's gonna
Speaker 1: be some people for the old that pick on that
Speaker 1: guy and get mad at him. But you know, and
Speaker 1: I think that's not really the the part to focus on,
Speaker 1: you know, but I think I think what you're doing
Speaker 1: is awesome. It's helping me that That's all I can
Speaker 1: say is that, Um, it really has. It's inspired me
Speaker 1: to be a better traditional archer. Uh. And I think
Speaker 1: it's working. It is because the stuff that I'm following
Speaker 1: and checking out clumb and Tyler Friel a friend of mine, uh,
Speaker 1: rights for Barony magazine something I know he's been with
Speaker 1: clumb And Uh. Now, it's cool stuff. It really is.
Speaker 1: It's cool stuff. I like it. I like the fact
Speaker 1: that it Um. When I started, there wasn't anyone to
Speaker 1: go to. Okay, there wasn't any social media guy. South
Speaker 1: was one, but South South like South a mule deer guy,
Speaker 1: not a When I say, I've never can rem a
Speaker 1: lot better now than he did when I first met him.
Speaker 1: He shoot pretty good now? I mean does he do it?
Speaker 1: Is he? He's got a clicker on in the whole
Speaker 1: nine cards? Colby, How are the mules fantastic? They're just
Speaker 1: chilling out in there. Just should pellets? You should have
Speaker 1: given some pellets. Uh. I think that Um, when um,
Speaker 1: you know you're never going to be able to make
Speaker 1: traditional archery a long distance sport. Um meaning it's just
Speaker 1: just capabilities of it, right, I mean, you just can't.
Speaker 1: You can't shoot far accurately no matter how I mean.
Speaker 1: There's times that I'll shoot a paper plate at fifty
Speaker 1: sixty yards of have something I can hold on with
Speaker 1: my point over not a shot I'm gonna taken. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess on a second arrow, I might attempt that,
Speaker 1: but you hit it the first time. Yeah, exactly. If
Speaker 1: I've made a shot and I think, man, this is
Speaker 1: I need another arrow in it. But um, well, Randy
Speaker 1: and Denny, Randy Cooling and Denny Sturgis said you should
Speaker 1: at least have a plan for a longer shot. I
Speaker 1: agree with that. You know, it's not a bad idea.
Speaker 1: You get one and you need to get another one
Speaker 1: in it. You should at least have a decent idea
Speaker 1: rather than just gripping and ripping. Um. They they face
Speaker 1: walk the different anchor points, which I never messed. That's
Speaker 1: not my cup of tea. Um well, have you ever
Speaker 1: read like Fred Beresfield notes, Okay, shot at forty went
Speaker 1: under it, shot at at fifty went under it, shot
Speaker 1: at sixty went under it hit it in the fomorl
Speaker 1: at seventy Okay, Well, obviously the founder of archery was
Speaker 1: winging him out there. Okay, if it doesn't take too
Speaker 1: long to read that. I think he shot his leopard
Speaker 1: at a hundred in some yards. I don't remember. It's far. Okay.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying follow that footsteps or you should do that.
Speaker 1: They can't do that anymore? Um right? For what why
Speaker 1: is that? Why can't we why can't we follow up? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm not saying we
Speaker 1: should say because the world is so much more transparent
Speaker 1: than it used to be because of social media. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'm agreeing with you. No, I'm just saying I
Speaker 1: wanted you to say it. Everything's out there now, right right,
Speaker 1: So it's should we or shouldn't we? We should certainly
Speaker 1: shouldn't post it, okay, with that's without a doubt, no
Speaker 1: one should see that, should we? As far as accuracy,
Speaker 1: probably not, because I don't think very many people are
Speaker 1: that accurate at that distance. When I say that distance
Speaker 1: past forty forty and n forties uh ten percent of
Speaker 1: the time five percent of the time, meaning right person,
Speaker 1: right place, right time, probably let maybe five inside of twenty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's an eighty percent right inside a for the most
Speaker 1: part that forty it's all on each person. Most people,
Speaker 1: if they're in the woods, are gonna be accurate after
Speaker 1: eighteen or twenty they probably shouldn't be in the ones. Again,
Speaker 1: pretty hard to get closer than ten yards. My looking
Speaker 1: at this, starting out with a compound where I could
Speaker 1: shoot over a hundred consistently, I had to immediately change
Speaker 1: my hunting style, right, I totally war reversal. I had
Speaker 1: to become more patient. I had to see animal behavior. Well,
Speaker 1: when the animal stands up at seventy and you just
Speaker 1: shoot it, you're not seeing a lot of animal behavior
Speaker 1: now at seventy that maybe four were more hours before
Speaker 1: I get to take a shot. So it's it's made
Speaker 1: me and what I would hope that it would help
Speaker 1: other people is become more of an animal afficionado. You're
Speaker 1: becoming a better hunter as you do this. Does the
Speaker 1: forty yard thing help? Oh? Yeah? The fact I can
Speaker 1: shoot forty in paper plate the softball sizes, it puts
Speaker 1: me a step above where I can take that shot
Speaker 1: in the right situation. That right situation is generally a
Speaker 1: bet animal because yeah, yeah, and the bows are quiet
Speaker 1: enough that they generally don't hear it go off. Um.
Speaker 1: And I've got a point to all of this. I
Speaker 1: think that when people look at traditional archery, I think
Speaker 1: they should look at it as you say, progression. You know,
Speaker 1: that's one way to look at it. If you're bored
Speaker 1: with the compound, you should pick up a stick book.
Speaker 1: If you suck with the compound, pick up a stick bow.
Speaker 1: You are already suck, right, um, stick bost funder and
Speaker 1: And I hate to be that blunt, but it's true.
Speaker 1: If you're just on a good shot with a compound,
Speaker 1: pick up a stickbow, start from scratch, get coaching. I
Speaker 1: can tell you now, it's a hell of a lot
Speaker 1: fun or to suck with a stick bow than it
Speaker 1: is with a compound, because with a stick bow you
Speaker 1: can stump shoot, you can shoot squirrels, you can shoot
Speaker 1: things you just can't really do with the compound. Um.
Speaker 1: That probably sounded harsh, but it's true. You know a
Speaker 1: lot of know a lot of guys that aren't real
Speaker 1: proficient out the thirty with a compound. I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: pick up a stickbow, start over you've already got all
Speaker 1: these bad habits and grain in your brain. With a compound,
Speaker 1: you can start from start fresh. Yeah, exactly. And I
Speaker 1: think I try to point people in that direction. And
Speaker 1: there's some guys that should shouldn't have a stickbow or
Speaker 1: a compound in their hand, you know, there's some guys
Speaker 1: that they should maybe not be hunting. Um when I
Speaker 1: say that mean they need to put more effort into it, maybe,
Speaker 1: is what I should say. So anyway, I'm going down
Speaker 1: to rabbit hole here. Well, the to me, what I've
Speaker 1: always liked about traditional archery is that, and I think
Speaker 1: Aaron is the reason that I got into it originally.
Speaker 1: Now it took me a while to get like deep
Speaker 1: into it. Was because you cannot fake being a tread
Speaker 1: bow shooter, I mean, and and that's the thing. Like
Speaker 1: compound archery is so proficient, Like compound the technology of
Speaker 1: a compound bow is so proficient. I can take my
Speaker 1: daughter out and within two hours of buying her a
Speaker 1: new compound bow, she can pretty much be ready to
Speaker 1: bow hunt a white tail deer inside of fifteen yards
Speaker 1: and probably two hours minus adrenaline proficiency hit a target
Speaker 1: and uh man, you can't fake being a tread archer
Speaker 1: and be successful. Now you can get lucky, you can,
Speaker 1: but I mean you, and I think that to me
Speaker 1: is probably one of the bigger things that I like
Speaker 1: about it. And what I respected about these old traditional
Speaker 1: archers that I didn't know is that they were authentic.
Speaker 1: And I think, to me, that's that's probably in me,
Speaker 1: like the magnetism that I see that I that I
Speaker 1: like inside of people's when I see somebody that's authentic
Speaker 1: and a lot and some of the traditional archers and
Speaker 1: specifically I'm talking about I doubt he'll listen to this podcast,
Speaker 1: but my brother's father in law, David Albright of Bowyer
Speaker 1: in Arkansas, Man, when when he talked to me about
Speaker 1: bow hunting, and I was a compound archer when I
Speaker 1: was in my early twel in my early twenties when
Speaker 1: I was talking to him about traditional archery, and I
Speaker 1: was like, man, that's the way to bow hunt. And
Speaker 1: and to this day I still shoot some compound, but
Speaker 1: but I recognized that you couldn't fake what he was
Speaker 1: doing and be successful. That's what I like about it.
Speaker 1: I'm looking up David Albright, where have I heard that
Speaker 1: name before? What he's he's a bowyer. I don't even
Speaker 1: know if you'll find David online. David is a David
Speaker 1: is as he's my brother's father in law. Have been
Speaker 1: making bows for years and years. He killed a hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty five inch deer on a public ground and
Speaker 1: the Washington Mountains of Arkansas with his trad bow this year.
Speaker 1: First I've heard that name before, and there's only reason why.
Speaker 1: That's why I's playing with my phone to look it up.
Speaker 1: But man, I I agree. I just met Marv Clinky,
Speaker 1: who's like a legend in Colorado, for the first time,
Speaker 1: like an hour and a half ago. Um, and uh,
Speaker 1: I just said, hey, it's it's an honor to meet
Speaker 1: you in not knowing the guy, and I'm I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not taking away he's done more for traditional archer
Speaker 1: and called bow hunting in Colorado than anyone in my opinion.
Speaker 1: It's the fact I know what he's killed and I
Speaker 1: know how close he's killed it, and that's amazing to me.
Speaker 1: I'm enamored by that, especially coming from the compound and
Speaker 1: then the first year kind of having the you know,
Speaker 1: pit for stumbling and everything else, and then gaining more
Speaker 1: and more success and knowing what it takes, the fact
Speaker 1: you might be laying there for five or six hours
Speaker 1: at sixty yards to hopefully get shot. Well, how many
Speaker 1: times has he done that? The dudes seventy eight years old? Okay,
Speaker 1: so he's done that a lot, right, Who knows how
Speaker 1: many times? Because he's gotta pile a big deer on
Speaker 1: the wall high country bucks. Um. And so I agree.
Speaker 1: I mean to me, like, um, some of the guys
Speaker 1: that are super are successful with the stickbow. Um. You
Speaker 1: know I'm looking at there's a lot of admiration there
Speaker 1: for what they've done. And they didn't have Tom's clinic,
Speaker 1: so you know you're there shooting at close. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know when I say Tom, there's other the push
Speaker 1: guys are really helpful. Joel's kind of a brain doctor turner.
Speaker 1: And and then you know there's um a coach that
Speaker 1: Randy and Denny use a lot, and he's kind of
Speaker 1: the same as Tom as far as that goes. Uh,
Speaker 1: I just forgot his name, good, Uh Rod Rod Jenkins.
Speaker 1: He's another coach down south that's um, you know, great
Speaker 1: for you know, kind of teaching more of the Tom
Speaker 1: and I argue sometimes I'll say that right now when
Speaker 1: it comes to his methods and what I he taught
Speaker 1: me and how I've morphed him. Do you want to
Speaker 1: talk about this at all? As I'm running at the mouth,
Speaker 1: what whatever you want? Man? Um all that? I want
Speaker 1: all that. The next thought I have in my mind
Speaker 1: is I want to talk to you. I want to
Speaker 1: tell you about my bow. Okay, the uh the thing
Speaker 1: with Tom is there's things that he taught me more
Speaker 1: Feta style shooting that I have not done. I hunch
Speaker 1: over right, I can't, Um, I don't curl the wrist
Speaker 1: this much, and and and do uh draw into the
Speaker 1: clicker like he teaches? Because I think it's harder to
Speaker 1: draw into the clicker that way consistently with an animal
Speaker 1: in front of you. So even though I should be
Speaker 1: drawing that way, I draw differently because my clicker goes
Speaker 1: off at a different time and I wanted to be consistent. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't think that alignment. UM you know, the release
Speaker 1: things like that can be argued, whether it's as Bell
Speaker 1: or Tom. That needs to be the same every time, Right,
Speaker 1: you got to do that? UM. Where I think that um,
Speaker 1: people uh struggle not necessarily as just the coaching. They
Speaker 1: get a bow their six ft one and have a
Speaker 1: twenty nine inch draw, and their buddy gives them a
Speaker 1: fifty six inch bow and the arrows aren't flying right
Speaker 1: and they don't know what to do. So the moral
Speaker 1: of my story is here, whosever path you follow, find
Speaker 1: someone to you need help in the beginning. You're not
Speaker 1: gonna just walk into it like a compound. You can
Speaker 1: wing it and still be successful. You can't wing it
Speaker 1: with a open you can't wing it with a stick bow.
Speaker 1: But go ahead and tell me about your bow now.
Speaker 1: So the bow that I'm currently shooting and have shot
Speaker 1: for several years now, or the brand would be a
Speaker 1: timber ghost traditional bows. And we talked about it at
Speaker 1: one time, and I tried to get Can't to send
Speaker 1: you one at the time, but you we didn't. It
Speaker 1: just didn't work out. But what I'm shooting right now
Speaker 1: is a timber ghost. It calls the G three S S.
Speaker 1: It's a takedown bow, it's a it's a it's a
Speaker 1: um bell, a belly mount limb limbs or belly mounted,
Speaker 1: kind of like the Black Widow eron, but it has
Speaker 1: a superstatic The S S of the G three S
Speaker 1: S stands for superstatic and it's one of the fastest bows,
Speaker 1: recurved bows on the planet. It looks like it'd be fast.
Speaker 1: It's got some curly tipped limbs on that. Yes, and
Speaker 1: it's uh man, it's it's it feels super good in hand,
Speaker 1: it's quiet, it's pretty short. Um, he makes different sized risers.
Speaker 1: I've got the thirteen inch riser. I think I'd rather
Speaker 1: have an eleven inch riser. But super sweet bow Man
Speaker 1: for real, Kent. I think it's doing some stuff that's
Speaker 1: pretty revolutionary. Um inside inside the tread bow, you know,
Speaker 1: the bow of your world. But anyway, uh, you ought
Speaker 1: to shoot it. I got it out in the truck. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got my targets in the back, so um, we
Speaker 1: can do that. I'm looking at it now. I I
Speaker 1: definitely have fallen in love with the widow. I've shot
Speaker 1: a pile of different bows, though. Um, I uh, I'm
Speaker 1: one of those I say, weird guys, but like five
Speaker 1: inch feathers, I get crap about shooting five inch feathers. Well,
Speaker 1: I've killed a lot of stuff with five inch feathers.
Speaker 1: I'm free to switch. I mean I said that on
Speaker 1: a podcast the other day, They're like, why don't you
Speaker 1: shoot smaller feathers, And I'm like, well, I'm not dropping
Speaker 1: bombs at eighty yards. Wind isn't really first and foremost
Speaker 1: wind drift. In my mind, I'm trying to shoot things
Speaker 1: sub twenty, so I don't worry about it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that looks like that is a slick looking bow. Yuh.
Speaker 1: He gets a good guy, cancer really kinds a good
Speaker 1: friend of He's a bow you're there in Arkansas. He's
Speaker 1: actually the My favorite bow that he makes, though, is
Speaker 1: the Smoke Smoke Bow, which is a fifty six inch
Speaker 1: hybrid longbow, and I feel like I just shoot it
Speaker 1: really well, but the riser is really small and I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not a big guy, so I like a
Speaker 1: smaller bow. But anyway, I'd love for you to just
Speaker 1: hold it in your hand out there, Aaron. You could.
Speaker 1: You can shoot Narra out of it. But man, when
Speaker 1: you ditched me for in British Columbia, um, I actually
Speaker 1: hadn't planned on shooting trad in my spring bear season.
Speaker 1: And so like three weeks ago, Jeff Lander was like, Hey,
Speaker 1: Aaron's gonna be in camp. You got to come. That's okay,
Speaker 1: I'll come. So, Kobe, what did I do? I started
Speaker 1: shooting the trad bow out of the global headquarters of
Speaker 1: Bear Hunting magazine lot and and I'm being completely transparent, man,
Speaker 1: I had put the bow down and and hadn't shot
Speaker 1: that much. But but I carried it to Montana on
Speaker 1: this rifle hunt. And we were planning on shooting every day,
Speaker 1: but I ended up stinking chasing bears so hard. We
Speaker 1: we had a tough We had a tough hunt. Awesome,
Speaker 1: incredible adventure, incredible monumental thing for me. Uh, Aaron, I've
Speaker 1: had a goal. I trained mules, and that's a new
Speaker 1: thing in my world. Didn't grow up doing it. But
Speaker 1: three years ago train the mule. My goal was to
Speaker 1: take the Montana and bear hunt on it. And so
Speaker 1: this was, uh, this was the completion of that quest.
Speaker 1: And uh, long story short, we were in the back
Speaker 1: country so much I didn't even get to shoot. But
Speaker 1: I'm going to British Columbia next week and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have to do some clean up. But I'm I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have to shoot. I'm shooting good, but yeah, you're stacking
Speaker 1: him in there. But yeah, Jeff, we gonna have to
Speaker 1: get closer. Funny. He called me and said, uh, can
Speaker 1: you not shoot one? It's I grew super quick. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't. Yeah, whatever, man, I don't. I've
Speaker 1: shot a bunch of them. When you what do you
Speaker 1: want me to wait for? You said, Clay's coming up.
Speaker 1: Can you wait to shoot one until he gets there?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, man, I'll wait if you want
Speaker 1: me to. I've had good success. We were gonna fill
Speaker 1: me man, which is good because I hate being on film. Um,
Speaker 1: it's funny the first uh, And I'll try and keep
Speaker 1: this short. The well, I shot a turkey with my
Speaker 1: bow and sixteen was the first animal. But when I
Speaker 1: had had gone up there, um, you know I had
Speaker 1: all these things people were telling me, the clums and anyway,
Speaker 1: all these different Uh you know that your hunt begins
Speaker 1: where it ends with the compound, and you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And it was true. Went up with this stock and
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this Barrett forty yards and I'm thinking
Speaker 1: you would be so dead if I had my compound
Speaker 1: right and and came back out, went back in on
Speaker 1: a different approach, and I don't know what I was
Speaker 1: forty something from it, and um, I'm like, I just
Speaker 1: don't think I can hit it, you know, And even
Speaker 1: now I wouldn't take the shot, and I can shoot forty,
Speaker 1: just bad angle and everything else. So I mouse squeaked
Speaker 1: and it came right in and um, they're kind of
Speaker 1: blind and it stood on this log above me close
Speaker 1: and I thought, I'm just gonna shoot it on a
Speaker 1: frontal you know. I taken lots of elk on a
Speaker 1: frontal deer and a shot and uh, whether I collapsed
Speaker 1: or crap my pants or whatever, shot between its feet.
Speaker 1: And Tom Senior told me, you will kill multiple animals
Speaker 1: on your second arrow, guaranteed. They don't know what's gone
Speaker 1: off with a com pound. That's a done deal. They're
Speaker 1: they're gone. Bear kind of picked up his paw and
Speaker 1: looked at it, and I thought, what I shoot his
Speaker 1: toenail off cheese and put it back down, turned broadside
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, okay, I got another chance, and
Speaker 1: I hit him on that one, and uh, it was
Speaker 1: a big thing because you know, picking up the stick
Speaker 1: and am I gonna be able to do this? And
Speaker 1: it was great with landers and it was ended up
Speaker 1: being a big bear. Did I write an article that
Speaker 1: was in magazine the first traditional archills in Bear Honey,
Speaker 1: Big Gamekiller, Game Kill, so you know I had done that,
Speaker 1: and then uh, you know, fast forward a little bit
Speaker 1: did pretty well at tournaments and I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: this isn't gonna be that bad. Well then opening DAYA
Speaker 1: of season elk and deer, Um, I missed a deer
Speaker 1: three times at seventeen twenty something and I don't know,
Speaker 1: and uh so we hunted some more for elk after that,
Speaker 1: and I think I clipped an elk in the leg
Speaker 1: and I had lots of other shots I didn't take
Speaker 1: that I would have but I just didn't feel comfortable with.
Speaker 1: And we came back. Um, you know, it's probably September
Speaker 1: five or something, so six seven days in the season,
Speaker 1: and um came back for a couple of days from
Speaker 1: the elk hunt, and Frank and I went out for
Speaker 1: a day hunt and I end up shooting a mule
Speaker 1: deer at four ft um like literally my broadhead was
Speaker 1: pine between its antlers when I drew back like close close.
Speaker 1: Frank's on all photos and that was the super addicting thing.
Speaker 1: I would have never done that, you know, it was
Speaker 1: one of those I'm in my socks and uh end
Speaker 1: up standing on the rock above it, shoot it straight down, unbelievable. Well,
Speaker 1: by some miracles, end up killing an elk short a
Speaker 1: few days after that. Well, anyway, fast forward, I'm in
Speaker 1: Alberta with with Jeff, and I didn't know the success
Speaker 1: right up there with a stick bow. It was like
Speaker 1: point one per cent, right, So I get a shot
Speaker 1: on the second day that I missed and I end
Speaker 1: up killing a tank. It's on the wall out there
Speaker 1: on whatever day it was. And and Jeff says, you're
Speaker 1: the third one. And I'm like, third one? What? And
Speaker 1: He's like, a third one to kill a guy? Kill
Speaker 1: one with stickbow up here in like eighteen years. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, you didn't tell me that crap when
Speaker 1: you told me to come up here and a hunt.
Speaker 1: I and ended up being a big deer. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right, I can do this right, And I think that, um,
Speaker 1: the the help I guess what I'm leading up to
Speaker 1: is because of Lander and Tom and other guys, my
Speaker 1: buddy Paul and many other people. The help they've given
Speaker 1: me has been I mean, it can't be quantified in
Speaker 1: with shooting a stick bow, right, And I try to
Speaker 1: be that person for other people now, because it is
Speaker 1: something that will I mean, it'll change your life in
Speaker 1: my opinion if you if you really stick with it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's all I have to say about that. Right on, man,
Speaker 1: right on? How long have we been going, Kobe? One
Speaker 1: hour and four minutes and seconds? Thanks, thanks for taking
Speaker 1: the time to meet up with Aaron. I really appreciate it. Man. No,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you guys having me on here. And I'm yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I had to be an adult for a
Speaker 1: little bit and be at work, so I'm sorry I
Speaker 1: stood you up in BC. But look at it this way.
Speaker 1: That's more bears for you. More bears, more bears. Well, um, close, Kobe.
Speaker 1: Any closing questions or anything that we had. I mean,
Speaker 1: I didn't really have a massive agenda there, and I
Speaker 1: just wanted to come by and see Kafaru. I want
Speaker 1: to see some of the stuff, wanted to wanted to
Speaker 1: outshoot Aaron uh in the back here just quickly now,
Speaker 1: I'm kidding. We probably got to go pretty quick, but
Speaker 1: we're driving home to Arkansas tonight. We got about a
Speaker 1: twelve hour driving front of us, all right, I think,
Speaker 1: just to summit up just from like listening and stuff.
Speaker 1: It sounds like one of the things you really do
Speaker 1: is just surround yourself with like good people and mentors.
Speaker 1: You know. It sounds like you grow a lot from
Speaker 1: just taking away positive aspects from other people. I think.
Speaker 1: So that's a good trait to have, definitely, and guys
Speaker 1: that keep you in check. If you surround yourself with
Speaker 1: people that tell you you're awesome all the time, pretty
Speaker 1: soon you can do no wrong. I between Brian Broderick
Speaker 1: and Clay and Tom and Lander, I am I am
Speaker 1: constantly put in check, which I think is also a
Speaker 1: good thing. So yeah, I've got I got one more.
Speaker 1: I got one more thing, you know. So So I
Speaker 1: just moved to Arkansas from Texas and my legs are
Speaker 1: not uh up to part yet. So we went to
Speaker 1: Montana and man, I was just I was struggling, and
Speaker 1: so I remember one part like we were doing something
Speaker 1: on the mountain and your voice came in my head
Speaker 1: and just had suck it up. Buttercup, I don't even
Speaker 1: know if you've ever said that. I say it all
Speaker 1: the time, but there's a lot of other things I
Speaker 1: say to Did it help it? Did it? Did it?
Speaker 1: Did well, it just I realized that I realized that
Speaker 1: my fitness isn't gonna get me up this mountain. I
Speaker 1: just gotta get tough, you know, you gotta have some
Speaker 1: mental toughness and pushed through. So yeah, because I was
Speaker 1: pretty sure you had actually said that, because the first
Speaker 1: podcast I think I ever listened to was to put
Speaker 1: it on your voice, smel suck it up, butter Cup,
Speaker 1: Suck it up, Buttercup. Hey, Kobe only fell off the
Speaker 1: meal one. Um good mulet eight miles on mules in
Speaker 1: less six days. Uh yeah, I'm not not so much
Speaker 1: for me. I'm not not. I mean, what is uh
Speaker 1: their dodgy in the front and back and untrustworthy in
Speaker 1: the middle. Um yeah, yeah that's about I rode one
Speaker 1: with with bar to horse on the goat hunt, and
Speaker 1: I ejected off at several times. I got really good
Speaker 1: at ejecting off, which, um no, I uh, I know.
Speaker 1: I'm glad I can help, and I truly, Um, I
Speaker 1: hate to say it, I know more overweight successful hunters
Speaker 1: than I do skinny ones. So there's something something to
Speaker 1: be said about mental toughness. Um, it goes a long way.
Speaker 1: I think that's a massive thing. That. You know, there's
Speaker 1: so much of a trend inside outdoor outdoor world right
Speaker 1: now about physical fitness, which is fantastic. It's a good
Speaker 1: thing to be physically fit. It's a good thing to
Speaker 1: take care of your body. But it's not the only thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm not in any way trash. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, we gotta we gotta be physically fit to
Speaker 1: be able to stay stay doing what we're doing as
Speaker 1: long as we can. But that's my goal inside of
Speaker 1: physical fitness is just I want to be I want
Speaker 1: to be hunting, you know, when I'm sixty and seventy
Speaker 1: years old. That means I got to take care of
Speaker 1: my body. Means I can't be you know. But but
Speaker 1: you don't have to be an ultra athlete to go
Speaker 1: hunting and be successful. But it helps, it help you
Speaker 1: look at well like ultra like with Cam Cam pretty
Speaker 1: much on hunts on private land now and he's still
Speaker 1: extremely fit right right, So, but you know he was
Speaker 1: getting it done backpack hunting years ago. He didn't do
Speaker 1: it as much now. But the thing that I try
Speaker 1: to explain to people, if you were gonna tear importance, Okay,
Speaker 1: shooting is important. Animal anatomy and is important, bushcraft is important,
Speaker 1: and physical fitness is certainly not up in my opinion,
Speaker 1: in the top three. They're important, but well, i'd say
Speaker 1: fit fitness is mid road because if you're smart, you
Speaker 1: know animal behavior, you can go up some mountain help
Speaker 1: out slower than if you suck um animal behavior because
Speaker 1: you're gonna blow it out and you're gonna have to
Speaker 1: need physics. You're gonna need physical fitness. You know animal
Speaker 1: behavior and you're smart and pushcraft. Physical fitness isn't important
Speaker 1: because they're a good chance you'll get it done the
Speaker 1: first time. And that's what I try to explain to guys.
Speaker 1: And so you need you do need to have to
Speaker 1: try to have the total package, right, Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: for what the mule the reason I like hunting off
Speaker 1: mules are and it is totally a I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: from Arkansas and the ozark is kind of the mule
Speaker 1: epicenter of North America and many rights in terms of
Speaker 1: training and breeding, so it's kind of a cultural thing,
Speaker 1: you know. I kind of enjoy that. I enjoy the
Speaker 1: training of it. But on this hunt, and this was
Speaker 1: the first time that I've done it myself, brought my
Speaker 1: own animals and hunted. It was. It was massively successful
Speaker 1: in terms of us of getting on game. Especially Cobby
Speaker 1: just self admitted that he wasn't physically ready for Montana.
Speaker 1: I told him we were going a week before we left, Okay,
Speaker 1: so are disadvantage. I'm afraid to lookie and I here.
Speaker 1: So he wasn't ready and and uh, and that's not
Speaker 1: a shameful thing, it's just that that that's just the truth.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been ready if you told me a
Speaker 1: week before we went. But the mules compensated for that.
Speaker 1: Now he had to be tougher in other areas because
Speaker 1: he had to learn how to write a mule and
Speaker 1: stay on it and not be afraid of it. And uh,
Speaker 1: and he did awesome and that. But so anyway, it
Speaker 1: was fun though it was. It was a ton of fun.
Speaker 1: But Aaron, Hey, thanks a lot, man, I really appreciate it. Uh,
Speaker 1: everybody knows where they can find Aaron Snyder's podcast Kafaro podcast.
Speaker 1: Um and at least my bad Aaron writes, for the
Speaker 1: last three or four years, you've written at least one article, Yes,
Speaker 1: which is amazing because um, I write really for no
Speaker 1: one else because I don't have time. But you like
Speaker 1: me enough to write for you, or I like you
Speaker 1: enough to write right. Well, Hey, you've been on the
Speaker 1: cover of bar Hunting magazine twice. Thereon there you go.
Speaker 1: If I write one on this predator hunt, will you
Speaker 1: put me on there again? Well, if you kill a bear,
Speaker 1: I can't put a mountain line on there, even though
Speaker 1: I want mountain lion article. Are for real? Do Yeah?
Speaker 1: I love mountain lion hunting and I think it ties
Speaker 1: directly on with our bear houndsman. Uh like bart I mean,
Speaker 1: anybody that's bear hunting with hounds that's gonna be interested
Speaker 1: in big game hunting with hounds. So I totally want
Speaker 1: a mountain lion article. Maybe I'll maybe I'll get a
Speaker 1: big one with Barton June and I can wrap them
Speaker 1: all together about hounds and everything. And I think that's
Speaker 1: important that people understand the dynamic of hounds and how
Speaker 1: important they are with predator control. Right on, right on? Well, hey,
Speaker 1: thanks Aaron, And uh keeps the wild places wild because
Speaker 1: that's where the barriers live. Thanks again,