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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Nol.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul Mission controlled decads. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 3: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 3: want you to know. Let's start out with something just

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Speaker 3: fun and easy and entirely uncomplicated.

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Speaker 4: You guys like vaccines, fun stuff, really an undivisive topic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, people just love talking about it at dinner.

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Speaker 2: They do, they do.

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Speaker 3: I think it's fair to say, without putting all of

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Speaker 3: us us on the spot, that we are we are,

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Speaker 3: in general fans of vaccination. It saved us as a

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Speaker 3: group from a lot of nasty, nasty things. Right Like,

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Speaker 3: you guys got COVID vaccines. I got a COVID vaccine,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I even got the little

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Speaker 3: boosties because I'm a completionist.

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Speaker 4: Mad boosties. I got the one. I think I'm due

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Speaker 4: for another. I need to look it up, but definitely

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Speaker 4: got at least one.

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Speaker 2: Boost no comment.

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Speaker 3: Okay, see see in case in points again very uncomplicated

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Speaker 3: dinner table conversation. But in the wake of COVID nineteen,

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Speaker 3: vaccines yet again became the subject of massive conspiracy theories. Right,

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Speaker 3: and the pandemic itself has all sorts of conspiratorial things

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Speaker 3: associated with it. Some of those are provably true, like

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Speaker 3: the PPP loan that actually happened.

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Speaker 4: It was a Pokemon card. Now what the peace stands

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Speaker 4: for in PPP?

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Speaker 3: Remember that one guy as from Georgia. He used his

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Speaker 3: money to fraudulently purchase a very very expensive Pokemon card. Well,

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Speaker 3: there we go, man, what we see here is in

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Speaker 3: tonight's show, we're exploring another story of conspiracy and vaccination.

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Speaker 3: But it's not necessarily a story the Jedi will tell you.

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Speaker 3: For most Americans today, the most famous case of polio

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Speaker 3: is that of former US President and almost dictator Franklin

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Speaker 3: Delano Roosevelt. But the story of polio starts way earlier

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Speaker 3: than FDR's infection in nineteen twenty one. He was thirty

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Speaker 3: nine at the time. Here are the facts. Polio is terrified.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't matter like how cool you are. It doesn't

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Speaker 3: matter if you can find a kangaroo one on one.

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Speaker 3: Polio is scarier well, and especially with this the historical

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Speaker 3: association with children, you know, and the idea of polio

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Speaker 3: wards and burning piles of clothes and just the virulent

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Speaker 3: contagiousness of it all.

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Speaker 4: You know, it really had the world standing still when

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Speaker 4: it was at its peak.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's terrifying because it's it's one of

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Speaker 2: those things if you could be afraid of something big

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Speaker 2: that could like cut you right or burn you, or

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Speaker 2: something that is that you could see coming like there's

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Speaker 2: that's that's one type of fear. The type of fear

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Speaker 2: with polio, and I think a lot of other most

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Speaker 2: other infectious diseases, is that it somehow gets into your

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Speaker 2: system and you didn't know it got into your system,

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Speaker 2: and then it takes a while, like with polio, takes

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Speaker 2: a while, and the end result after it's done with

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Speaker 2: your body could be what paralysis.

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Speaker 3: Or worse, Yeah, anything from difficulty breathing to lifelong paralysis.

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Speaker 3: We're talking withered limbs type stuff, or even death. Right,

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Speaker 3: you will possibly die from polio. And polio is the

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Speaker 3: street name for a disease called polio. Myletis very nasty

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Speaker 3: thing caused by variations of the polio virus. Like you said, Matt,

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Speaker 3: it's easy to miss some kind of transference of this

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Speaker 3: thing because it transfers through ingestion, and polio has a

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Speaker 3: favorite part of the human body nerves in the spinal

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Speaker 3: cord and the brainstem.

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Speaker 4: You're seeking of terrifying things associated with and already terrifying things.

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Speaker 3: Do you guys remember the device known as the iron lung.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it was like it's like a hyperbaric chamber, but

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Speaker 4: it essentially was a huge savor of lives, you know,

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Speaker 4: for folks that's contracted polio. But I believe you had to,

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Speaker 4: you know, use it for the rest of your life.

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Speaker 4: Like it was literally like being on light like this

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Speaker 4: very kind of steampunk form of life support.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It always used for a lot of different things,

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Speaker 2: and unless you could cure whatever the infection was, right,

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Speaker 2: then you're stuck. Yeah, it's like somebody being on life

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Speaker 2: support now, right, I mean, that's still a thing. The

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Speaker 2: choice to continue someone's life on life support knowing it

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Speaker 2: would be limited to that situation is one of the

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Speaker 2: tough Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's making me emotional. It's one

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Speaker 2: of the toughest things. You can toughest choices, you can

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Speaker 2: be forced to make.

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Speaker 4: Well again, not to mention if you're considering it when

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Speaker 4: it comes to a child.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then there's also the quality of life argument

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Speaker 3: at that point, it's the iron lung. May sound like

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Speaker 3: a barbaric solution to a problem, but as we'll see soon,

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Speaker 3: polio was much more horrific. The iron lung. As terrible

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Speaker 3: as it was, it was better than the alternative for

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Speaker 3: many people. And so okay. Today, the wild naturally occurring

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Speaker 3: polio virus group, it's been. The good news is it's

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Speaker 3: been virtually eradicated on every continent except Asia. As of

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty, Pakistan and Afghanistan are the only two countries

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Speaker 3: where polio is still considered endemic, like very common, very prevalent,

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Speaker 3: easily spread. Nigeria was on that list for a while,

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Speaker 3: but thankfully it has moved off that list. We still

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Speaker 3: don't know, by the way, the origin story of polio.

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Speaker 3: All we know is it's been a sort of dark

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Speaker 3: passenger of humanity for thousands, thousands of years. That's right.

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Speaker 4: In fact, it can be seen, or the very least

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Speaker 4: depictions of it can be seen in ancient Egyptian artwork

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Speaker 4: dating back circa fifteen eighty to thirteen fifty BCE showing

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Speaker 4: a priest with a withered leg and using a crutch

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Speaker 4: to help them walk, and experts believe that this official

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Speaker 4: likely contracted the disease and for a time survived. It

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Speaker 4: was then first officially described in the West in seventeen

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Speaker 4: eighty nine, when British physician doctor Michael Underwood addressed it

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Speaker 4: as a quote debility of the lower extremities.

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Speaker 3: But by seventeen eighty nine, this disease was absolutely everywhere.

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Speaker 3: He was describing something that everyone knew about, and you

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Speaker 3: were it was kind of like dysentery, Like you may

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Speaker 3: not have personally encountered it, but you knew someone at

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Speaker 3: the very least who knew someone who died because of polio.

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Speaker 3: And it's still an ongoing struggle to eradicate this virus,

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Speaker 3: but it's a massive success story for humanity. I mean,

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Speaker 3: like when we talk about polio in the United States,

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Speaker 3: it feels like we're talking about smallpox, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean, Like it feels very much as though it

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Speaker 3: is a disease of yesteryear. So it's it's tough to

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Speaker 3: remember that during the early nineteen hundreds and well before,

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Speaker 3: polio was one of the most feared diseases in all

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Speaker 3: of the industrialized countries. Like, you would have a lot

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Speaker 3: of kids because there was a non zero chance that

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Speaker 3: one of them would die due to polio. You were helpless.

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Speaker 3: People didn't know how it transmitted. They knew that thousands

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Speaker 3: of children in every country would get paralyzed every single year,

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Speaker 3: and the doctors couldn't help you.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and again not just polio, right, like you said,

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Speaker 2: at smallpox too. Your children could die from any number

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Speaker 2: of these diseases until effective vaccinations were like became a

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Speaker 2: thing that really did change how human beings live and

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Speaker 2: choose to have children. It's nuts to think about that

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Speaker 2: a technological medical invention could have that great an effect

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Speaker 2: on all of humanity.

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Speaker 3: And then, you know, we'll get to it. But there

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Speaker 3: were vaccines that were introduced or discovered or created in

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Speaker 3: the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties, and so for those

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Speaker 3: developed industrial countries, this made polio a containable disease. As

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Speaker 3: we record this evening, polio is incurable. There is not

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Speaker 3: a cure for polio even now in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: This means the condition or the disease can only be

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Speaker 3: prevented or treated after you contract it. We know the

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Speaker 3: first polio vaccine was developed by doctor Hillary Koprowski, and

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Speaker 3: weird fact, it was administered almost exactly seventy four years

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Speaker 3: ago tonight. It was first administered on February twenty seventh,

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Speaker 3: nineteen fifty.

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Speaker 4: And the second, even more well known vaccine was created

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Speaker 4: by Jonas Salk in nineteen fifty two and was officially

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Speaker 4: announced to the world on April twelfth, nineteen fifty five.

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Speaker 4: Big deal for human race, Yeah, exactly. But there's a

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Speaker 4: little wrinkle in all of this clutch medical innovation, isn't there, Ben.

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Speaker 3: There is no. A series of missteps and possibly sinister

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Speaker 3: events made the treatment arguably worse than the disease, and

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Speaker 3: as a result, polio vaccination has led to thousands of

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Speaker 3: conspiracy theories, some more plausible than others. It's also led

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Speaker 3: to a continual distrust, paranoia, and fear a vaccination that

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Speaker 3: continues in the modern day. It has real world consequences

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Speaker 3: for everybody listening tonight. What do you say, guys, you

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Speaker 3: want to take a break for a word from our

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Speaker 3: sponsors or should we dive right in.

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Speaker 4: Oh, let's take a little break, give us some breathing

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Speaker 4: room here before we get into the weeds with this

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Speaker 4: pretty gnarly misstep series of missteps or iron lungs.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. Let's talk about it. The

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Speaker 3: Cutter incident.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we just we have to say at

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Speaker 2: the top here before we get into all of this

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Speaker 2: the ben would you say the treatment was arguably worse

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Speaker 2: than the disease itself? For we just have to say,

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Speaker 2: with a little cave out there, for some people that

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Speaker 2: took the treatment right, not for everybody. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's why this story is so sinister, because for most

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Speaker 2: people who were going through the process, everything's fine. But

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Speaker 2: just like with the chance that you have to contract

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Speaker 2: pull the wild when you take the treatment to take

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Speaker 2: care of polio, you had this same like small but

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Speaker 2: significant percentage that something really bad is going to happen.

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Speaker 3: Well, it didn't happen, thankfully, in the case of the

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Speaker 3: rapid I guess approval process for COVID vaccine.

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Speaker 4: But it's a similar kind of mad dash, you know,

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Speaker 4: a scramble to get something out as quickly as possible

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Speaker 4: and as we know. When that is the case, sometimes

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Speaker 4: things slip through the cracks or possibly even worse.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So with those necessary caveats and conditions here, let's

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Speaker 3: get to the story. It's nineteen fifty one. Our buddy

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Speaker 3: Jonas is receiving two hundred thousand dollars a year just

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Speaker 3: to research a vaccination or cure for polio. And this

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Speaker 3: happens due to crowdsourcing. The largest public fundraising activity ever

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Speaker 3: the March of Dimes, which I still like. I think

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Speaker 3: we're all old enough to remember. You might see a

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Speaker 3: little box that when more people used cash, and I'm

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Speaker 3: at a dairy queen or something, you know, at the counter.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes there'd even be a fun little thing or you'd

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Speaker 4: put your coin down a shoe and it would go

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Speaker 4: around a little whirligig kind of thing, I guess, to

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Speaker 4: make it feel like a fun activity and not just

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Speaker 4: you know. No, actually that was something else. The March

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Speaker 4: of Dimes was specifically a little thing like a little

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Speaker 4: sheet with little recessed places where you'd put your dime.

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Speaker 3: If I'm not mistaken, I remember that one. But I

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Speaker 3: swear I thought you there.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if that was I can't say for

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Speaker 4: certain if that was associated specifically with the March of Dimes,

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Speaker 4: it might have been like some other thing, but very

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Speaker 4: much part of my childhood memory. And I is it

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Speaker 4: still active or is this?

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Speaker 3: Is this not something.

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Speaker 2: March of Babies. There's a pretty huge organization. I want

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Speaker 2: to say, my parents, I know for a fact, still

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Speaker 2: I know this. They still donate to them every year

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Speaker 2: as part of their like I guess end of the

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Speaker 2: year tax donations kind of thing. Wow, well do you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like a lot of families do

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Speaker 2: that where you will donate certain amounts of money to

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Speaker 2: charitable organizations rather than just paying the government taxes because

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Speaker 2: you can write those off, which I would highly recommend

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Speaker 2: to anybody out there that is paying too many taxes,

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Speaker 2: which is all of us.

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Speaker 3: The tax right off is sort of like the little

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Speaker 3: whirligig toy, you know, for there's a fun feature.

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Speaker 2: But think about that, Like an amazing charitable organization can

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Speaker 2: take several hundred dollars or whatever it is that the

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Speaker 2: government would just take and then allocate towards you know, missiles,

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Speaker 2: that missfire. I'm just joking.

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Speaker 3: Everything's great, everything's great. Trident is going completely on course. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so okay, just for a quick we do this on

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Speaker 3: ridiculous history pretty often. Just for a wick inflation calculator,

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Speaker 3: two hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money. But

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Speaker 3: polio is a big problem. So if one of us

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Speaker 3: could do the odders, how much is two hundred thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars a year in nineteen fifty one? What does that

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Speaker 3: equate to in twenty twenty four?

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Speaker 2: Two million, three hundred and seventy two thousand, four hundred

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Speaker 2: and thirty eight dollars and forty six cents.

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Speaker 4: Still dropping the bucket and compared to military spending, but

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Speaker 4: it's you know, not insignificant.

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Speaker 2: Well, think about that amount of money to develop, like

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Speaker 2: to a drug, Yeah, to develop a cure for a

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Speaker 2: seriously dangerous, scary thing.

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Speaker 3: It does seem kind of lowball. Low ball, Yeah, okay, good, but.

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Speaker 2: But that is everybody pulling again like dimes and just

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Speaker 2: a little amount of money that they can spare to

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Speaker 2: all give at once, which I think, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it becomes extremely impactful when you've got crowdsourcing like that.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen what is it fifty or fifty one? Fifty one?

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Speaker 4: Why is the government not subsidizing this more.

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Speaker 3: All right, we'll take questions at the end. That's what

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Speaker 3: they would have said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally saw that as like the next question, please.

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Speaker 3: The time difficult question exactly. So by this time, in

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Speaker 3: the early nineteen fifties, there were like fifty nine thousand

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Speaker 3: cases of polio every single year in the US alone,

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Speaker 3: And in nineteen fifty two, the US encountered the worst

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Speaker 3: outbreak of polio on its record, fifty seven thousand people

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Speaker 3: were infected. But again, it's the dark lottery, right, you're

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Speaker 3: rolling the dice, so you don't know whether these people

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Speaker 3: are going to be paralyzed, whether they're going to survive

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Speaker 3: relatively unscathed, or whether they're going to die. And in

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Speaker 3: nineteen fifty two, twenty one thousand people got paralyzed whoa

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Speaker 3: twenty one thousand, many of them children. And the US

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Speaker 3: population that time is about one hundred and fifty three million,

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Speaker 3: which again it doesn't seem like that many people when

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Speaker 3: you when you think about the overall population, but it

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Speaker 3: really is.

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Speaker 2: I mean, what is that percentage?

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Speaker 5: How many did you say, Ben, twenty one thousand wry

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Speaker 5: this equals Okay, that's actually a really low that's what

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Speaker 5: one two it's like less than one percent point oh

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Speaker 5: one point oh well four percent of the population.

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Speaker 4: To your point, though, it's less, so maybe impressive and

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Speaker 4: impressive is the wrong way as a proportion of the population.

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Speaker 4: But that's a lot of human beings. Yeah, you laid

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Speaker 4: them out in a line visually. Oh my god, that's shocking.

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Speaker 4: I mean, go up right, yeah, three round.

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Speaker 3: Forty five people died that year.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh see. And what I'm trying to do is

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Speaker 2: put my mind into like a policy maker, right, or

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Speaker 2: a lawmaker that hasn't been affected by this disease, right,

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Speaker 2: And you look at those numbers on the paper, and

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh, well, this isn't this isn't more concerning

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Speaker 2: than these twelve things that I've got on my priorities list, Right,

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Speaker 2: But that's why when somebody when you have something like

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Speaker 2: the March of Dimes, and wasn't Roosevelt involved with FDR

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Speaker 2: involved with that? So when you've got a public figure

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Speaker 2: that then is going through it publicly, right, but except

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Speaker 2: not publicly because they were taking great pains to hide

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Speaker 2: his what he was going through. Isn't that correct too?

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Speaker 2: That you guys, didn't you do an episode on that

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Speaker 2: I feel Look, we've had that conversation just the great

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Speaker 2: pains that the government took to hide FDR's bodily changes.

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Speaker 3: There was also to contextualize that there was also a

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Speaker 3: far higher degree of prejudice against people who had disabilities

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Speaker 3: or handicaps. So it was still like the days when

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Speaker 3: they would hide folks in addicts and so on.

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Speaker 2: So again, like we're just kind of I think we're

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Speaker 2: trying to paint a picture here of like what it

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Speaker 2: would have felt like to be going through this and

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Speaker 2: what it would have looked like from way above in

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Speaker 2: the forty thousand foot view of policymakers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the issue was that this disease was striking pretty

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Speaker 3: much regardless of socioeconomic demographic right, so anyone could get

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Speaker 3: the smoke, unfortunately, and the stakes therefore became inexpressibly high.

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Speaker 3: Uncle Sam opened the wallet and begged Jodahs solked to

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Speaker 3: save the nation. And like you were saying, Noel, the

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Speaker 3: scale of this research and this rollout was unprecedented, both

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Speaker 3: in terms of the amount of money thrown at it

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Speaker 3: and that accelerated timeline. So like what we say, nineteen

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Speaker 3: fifty one, he's getting two hundred grand or like two

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Speaker 3: point three million today. By nineteen fifty four, his vaccine

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Speaker 3: is ready for a clinical trial, and so the US

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Speaker 3: government gets one point eight million children into this clinical trial.

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Speaker 3: Wow wow, And they didn't all get the vaccine, because

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Speaker 3: that's not how science works.

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Speaker 2: And you gotta have a control, right. Did they just

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Speaker 2: give a bunch of the kids nothing or a saline

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Speaker 2: solution or something.

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Speaker 3: Well, I like to hope that a couple of them

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Speaker 3: just got like a cookie or you know, like something pleasant.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: Four hundred and twenty thousand got the actual vaccine, two

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand got a placebo, one point two million got nothing.

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Speaker 3: They were the control group.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, but they're all enrolled, so they're being monitored

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Speaker 2: and tracked right right, right? Okay? Do we know if

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Speaker 2: I can't remember? Man, is this this early back the

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Speaker 2: Salk vaccine. Is this the one that is oral or

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Speaker 2: is this the one that's like you puncture the arm

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Speaker 2: and then the substance goes into the wound.

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Speaker 3: It was a very different time. Which I had to

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Speaker 3: do is grease up a hand and rub the armpit

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Speaker 3: of the kit.

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Speaker 2: Wait what I'm lying? Okay, No, No, I'm serious. I

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Speaker 2: don't know the Jonas Salk vaccine, Like, maybe it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to imagine what those actual little kids

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Speaker 2: four in twenty thousand they had the experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, I believe it would be injection.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So the big part is that the vaccine. It was

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Speaker 3: a gamble to roll this out. The vaccine actually worked,

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Speaker 3: and because it appeared to have efficacy, which it did,

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Speaker 3: there was a lot of political pressure and literally the

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Speaker 3: day after the results came in, the government green lit it.

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Speaker 3: And so for two hectic weeks, five different companies went

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Speaker 3: into overdrive and made about five million doses. And then

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Speaker 3: about thirteen days after the first doses hit the field,

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Speaker 3: there were reports of polio and children who had been immunized.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's horrifying. It is through an injector,

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Speaker 2: and you were correct, Ben, like a shot right the

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Speaker 2: way we get shots these days. When I'm thinking about this,

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Speaker 2: before we even get into it, I'm imagining that some

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Speaker 2: of those children who are in the control may have

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Speaker 2: already contracted polio before they got a vaccine, quite possibly,

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Speaker 2: And I don't know how you could ever control for

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Speaker 2: that or even know if if polio was already moving

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Speaker 2: through a system through the gut, right, because that's the

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Speaker 2: way it goes. You ingest it, and it goes down

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Speaker 2: into your cells. They're in your stomach and your intestines.

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Speaker 2: I just maybe I just don't know the science behind it,

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Speaker 2: if you could even tell if somebody had it already

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Speaker 2: in the early stages. Yeah, the.

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Speaker 3: It does sound forty thousand foot view and kind of

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Speaker 3: brutal to put it this way, but it was necessary

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Speaker 3: to include more than a million children with no intervention,

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Speaker 3: such that you could build a snapshot of what happens

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Speaker 3: without it. So the idea that some of those children

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Speaker 3: would have already contracted polio is baked into the concept. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 3: so people panic, they freak out. You know, this is

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Speaker 3: an incredibly evil version of like taking aspirin to cure

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Speaker 3: a headache and getting a migraine, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or much more, even more unfortunate, let's say.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, even worse. And so people immediately dig in and

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Speaker 3: they find that all of the initial cases of polio

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Speaker 3: infection via vaccine, all of those people received a vaccine

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Speaker 3: manufactured by one company, Cutter Laboratories, Cutter, not Qatar.

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Speaker 4: So after all was said and done, at least two

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Speaker 4: hundred and twenty thousand people were infected with a live

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Speaker 4: polio virus contained in Cutters vaccine, and that included one

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Speaker 4: hundred thousand contacts of immunized children.

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Speaker 2: So let's just talk about that. Why is it a

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Speaker 2: big deal that it's live poliovirus? In our discussions previously

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Speaker 2: about vaccinations, one of the methods to create a workable

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Speaker 2: vaccine that will actually prevent you from getting a disease

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Speaker 2: is to use a let's say, dead virus, pieces of

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Speaker 2: the genetic material of a virus. Inject that into you

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Speaker 2: so your body and your immune system recognizes it as

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Speaker 2: a threat. So when you see the when it then

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Speaker 2: sees the real polio virus come through, it knows to

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Speaker 2: fight it. Right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, picture your picture your immune system going to a

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Speaker 3: gun range. Right. So the idea is that a vaccination

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Speaker 3: contains a de weaponized version of a virus, right, a

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Speaker 3: snake without the thangs, And so it's like it's as

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Speaker 3: though they have a copy of the virus close enough

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Speaker 3: to the actual threat that it may as well be

401
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Speaker 3: a target in the gun range. Right.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a bunch of deactivated terminators, right, and FIR

403
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Speaker 2: the deactivator pop.

404
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Speaker 3: It up like that amazing Larry David sketch from Sarah Live.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but doesn't It does still make you sick, though

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Speaker 4: it can.

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Speaker 3: I know they can't.

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Speaker 4: Well. When they get a vaccination, it can be very

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Speaker 4: similar symptoms to the actual condition they're being vaccinated against.

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Speaker 2: But generally you're not going to get the actual one

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Speaker 2: saying that you're being vaccinated for, unless there's some kind

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Speaker 2: of mess up like in this situation. See what is

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Speaker 2: it called Cutter Laboratory from California.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I still remember that salsa commercial, so all right, yeah.

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Speaker 3: So Unfortunately, as a direct result of these vaccinations, seventy

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Speaker 3: thousand victims developed muscle weakness, one hundred and sixty four

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Speaker 3: were severely paralyzed like iron lung level, and then ten

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Speaker 3: die that we know of. The question is what happened?

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Speaker 3: How could a vaccine spread the very same disease it

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Speaker 3: was created to prevent. How could the aspirin be the

421
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 3: source of your headache? Here's what went wrong. I guess

422
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Speaker 3: we should talk about Cutter Pharmaceutical Company for anyone playing

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Speaker 3: along at home. They were later purchased by the pharmaceutical

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Speaker 3: conglomerate Bear.

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Speaker 2: They as our most medical pharmaceutical company.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems so.

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Speaker 4: And so they started out as a lab like doing research,

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Speaker 4: and then I guess they parlayed that research into a

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Speaker 4: full blown pharmaceutical company.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, you're absolutely correct. In eighteen ninety seven they started,

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Speaker 3: and in their early days they quickly got involved with

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Speaker 3: swine fever, cholera anthrax. To be clear, they got involved

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Speaker 3: with attempting to prevent those yeah, yeah, yeah, potato patata.

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Speaker 2: They weren't just writing letters to congressmen with some substance

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Speaker 2: inside it.

436
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:51,959
Speaker 3: Swine fever was the new NFT, right, So all right,

437
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: even before the flu, we had the fever. Right there

438
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,959
Speaker 3: we go. So there's this rush for this polio treatment.

439
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 3: Lives are on the line. No one knows how to

440
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 3: prevent it. And if you ask the average American at

441
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 3: this time, what scares them the most is that it

442
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 3: could be their kid. It could be their kid tomorrow.

443
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 3: They have no idea how to prevent it.

444
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: It's an astonishing situation. Really. Imagine in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty,

445
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 2: when there was such a public outcry like my, get

446
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: these vaccines ready, now, hurry up, get these vaccines ready. Now,

447
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: that was happening then with polio because there were such

448
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 2: public fear.

449
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 4: And with COVID it was more like this could be

450
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 4: my parents or grandparents, right, But then you know, it's

451
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 4: just like times ten x that that's redundant. But you

452
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 4: get what I'm saying when it comes to children, my children,

453
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, largely COVID nineteen minute affected all kinds

454
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 4: of people, but the folks that were experiencing the largest

455
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 4: numbers of fatalities were you know, buy large, older folks.

456
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: But I would just say I had a four year

457
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 2: old at the time. He's eight years old, thank goodness,

458
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: and sitting over there playing Minecraft right now. But like that,

459
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: the fear for themes was what, we don't know what's

460
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 2: going to happen if my child gets this, because I

461
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: got it right, and you just again, I think the

462
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: same thing's happening with polio because if you accidentally, as

463
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,719
Speaker 2: an adult ingest some of it accidentally, then you're cooking

464
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 2: for your child. It's over right, right, very much so.

465
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 3: And with this massive rush to treat this condition, right

466
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: to propagate a preventative measure, some batches of the Cutter

467
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 3: produced vaccine. They passed standard safety test, which meant they

468
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 3: you know, they had just the targets instead of the

469
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 3: actual enemies, and the problem was they still carried live polio.

470
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 3: So the thousands thousands of people were injected with the

471
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 3: disease that they were attempting to avoid. They were given

472
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 3: the disease, which differs from Tuskegee. To be clear, the

473
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 3: Tuskegee syphilis experiments were a conspiracy on the part of

474
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 3: the US government to pretend to treat syphilis and not

475
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 3: actually do anything and watch people slowly die. This is

476
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 3: different because the disease is actively been inserted into human bodies.

477
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 2: Well, and the big question you may have right now

478
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 2: as you're hearing all of this is, well, did that

479
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: pharmaceutical company know that they were injecting people with a

480
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: live poliovirus or was it an accident?

481
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 4: Well, that's where the conspiracy stuff comes from, right, Like

482
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 4: the did they know? Was this intentional? Was this designed

483
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 4: to cull a portion of the population. That's where the

484
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 4: conspiratorial mind kind of leaps to right.

485
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 3: One hundred percent, And we can answer that quickly. First,

486
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 3: before we answer, we have to give a big shout

487
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 3: out to two people. Jonas Sulk already got enough attention, right,

488
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 3: you know, he did a good job earned it. Shout

489
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: out to you someone who doesn't get enough recognition. Here

490
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: is Bernice E. Eddie Eddy in the mid nineteen fifties.

491
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 3: Eddie is a scientist at the National Institute's Plural of

492
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 3: Health in Bethesda, Maryland. And Eddie is doing a routine

493
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 3: safety test on a batch of these cutter vaccines, and

494
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 3: just to be very clear, folks, they were testing on primates.

495
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 3: And as a result, Eddie notices, Hey, this vaccine we

496
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: gave to a monkey to several monkeys has actually given

497
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 3: the monkeys polio. There's a great Washington Post article that

498
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 3: talks about this. She finds that three of the six

499
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 3: samples she's testing have paralyzed the monkeys, and she asked

500
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 3: a colleague, you know, what do you think's wrong with

501
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 3: the monkeys? And the guy looks at him and he's like, oh, well,

502
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 3: they have polio. Obviously, you know, we got to give

503
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 3: some of them polio. We got to figure out what's

504
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 3: going on. She's like, no, they we gave these monkeys

505
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 3: the vaccine. And then they have that like Christmas Story

506
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 3: moment where the kid finally says the F word. They're

507
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 3: looking at each other and they're goudge oh fudge, Yeah.

508
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: What did we do? Or like, what happened? How did

509
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: this happen? What's going on? Because we're giving people this stuff?

510
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: And do you mind if we shout out that article

511
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: really quickly, Ben that you're pulling from right there, because

512
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: it's really good.

513
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 3: It's Yeah, I'm I'm citing the tainted polio vaccine that's

514
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 3: sicken and fatally paralyzed children in nineteen fifty five, published

515
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 3: in April twenty twenty by Michael E.

516
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 2: Rowing. You can read that one for free online from

517
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: the National Library of Medicine.

518
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's a lot of attention on this now, right,

519
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 3: and at least part of that is, as we'll find,

520
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: it's due to the beat by beat story progression of

521
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 3: COVID vaccine conspiracies. There's another guy we should shout out,

522
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 3: paul A. Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at

523
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 3: the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and author of the best

524
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 3: book about the Cutter Incident. Spoiler. It is titled the Cutter.

525
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: Incident subtitle how America's first polio vaccine led to the

526
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: growing vaccine crisis.

527
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred and twenty thousand children got this tainted vaccine,

528
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 3: and they became a part of what off It describes

529
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 3: as quote, one of the worst biological disasters in American history,

530
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 3: a man made polio epidemic.

531
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: No, thank you, I mean.

532
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: And it's weird too, because for some folks in the

533
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 3: crowd tonight you might say, well, that's what you get

534
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 3: for trusting these authority figures on the basis of their authority. Right.

535
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 3: You have to understand though, that at this time the

536
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 3: atomic bomb still had a frightening new car smell to it.

537
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 3: And if you asked Americans, as off at sites, if

538
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 3: you asked Americans at this moment in history what their

539
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 3: top fears were, the atomic bomb was number one, Polio

540
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 3: was number two.

541
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and think about the other types of fears

542
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: that would stoke that one, like, oh, is this some

543
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: kind of disease the Soviet Union is trying to like

544
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: infiltrate our the ranks of our children with some schools,

545
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: or it's like that. The fear is very real.

546
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 3: It even got the president, you know what I mean,

547
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 3: once upon a time. So that is that is front

548
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 3: of mind in the American zeitgeist. And just like we

549
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 3: said with COVID nineteen, people weren't sure how it transmitted originally,

550
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 3: they became increasingly paranoid. What I like about off Its

551
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 3: book is that he draws these comparisons very well. He says,

552
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 3: you know, people were wearing masks, were wearing gloves, They

553
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 3: were afraid to go to the grocery store and touch

554
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 3: fruit in the produce section. Also, you should watch the

555
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:48,959
Speaker 3: produce if you can't.

556
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 4: Just I remember when people were like getting their groceries

557
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 4: and leaving them in their garage for a couple of days.

558
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 4: You know, they were just like again, I'm sorry to

559
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 4: repeat myself, just the not know of it all, something

560
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 4: so novel literally was in the name of our virus,

561
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 4: the coronavirus. It just breeds so much like paranoia, you know,

562
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 4: And it's like how I'll do anything, Matt to your

563
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 4: earlier point about how it's not like a knife or

564
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 4: you know, a punch or something you can dodge or

565
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 4: duck or guard yourself against. Therefore everything becomes a candidate

566
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 4: for like this invisible kind of assailant, you know, for

567
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 4: it to get into you and you just it can

568
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 4: really breed some very serious mental health issues. In addition

569
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 4: to God forbid, if you actually get the illness.

570
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 2: Well, with a contractable disease, every other human being you

571
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 2: interact with is a potential infection point right until exactly

572
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 2: unless somehow you know that person has been vaccinated and

573
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: is immune. Right, so now that person is safe, and

574
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 2: then if you've gotten it, oh wait, now I'm safe

575
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 2: and I could be a safe person for other people.

576
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 2: You can see psychologically, the thing you're describing there, guys,

577
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: is like the vaccine. It becomes a mental cure almost

578
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 2: more than not more than the same way it becomes

579
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 2: a physical prevention.

580
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 3: There's some symbolism to it, right, There's some siop aspects

581
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 3: for sure. I mean, look, it's so, what's the nineteen fifties.

582
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 3: A ton of people acting good faith vaccinated their kids

583
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 3: and they got polio as a result. And it should

584
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 3: be no surprise that conspiracy theories take wing span. That's

585
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 3: for you know, almost not immediately, the questions are thriving

586
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 3: because there's a lack of transparency at this point. Could

587
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 3: the US government really have just screwed up such an

588
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 3: important job? Could there be another goal behind these vaccinations?

589
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 3: What if people asked this was somehow by design? I

590
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 3: suggest we take a break for a word, from our sponsors,

591
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 3: Cutter Laboratories.

592
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 4: Can we keep that in absolutely yes QA T A R.

593
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, the.

594
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 3: Nation Nation Cutter, our number one supporter. All right, keep

595
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 3: it all all hurt, and we've returned. There's this aftermath,

596
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 3: and to the credit of the US government, the response

597
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 3: was pretty immediate, like they're freaking out too, because they

598
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 3: are also human, they also have children. They also don't

599
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 3: want anyone they care about to have polio.

600
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 4: Right then, the Surgeon General's Office polls immediately all of

601
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 4: these vaccines produced by Cutter. But unfortunately, as you may imagine,

602
00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 4: the damage had largely already been done, and subsequent research

603
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 4: would show polio vaccines that were manufactured by Eli, Lilly Park, Davis, Pittman, Moore,

604
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 4: and Wyeth may also have paralyzed some children. This is

605
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 4: not very good for public opinion and morale in general, you.

606
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 3: Know, especially after the just the bait and switch of

607
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 3: it all.

608
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 4: You know, you're already like again, living in these very

609
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 4: paranoid conditions and then you have this this golden kind

610
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 4: of like you know, parachute extended to you, only to

611
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 4: realize that it as a giant.

612
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 3: Hole in it. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good way to

613
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 3: put it, the public opinion pulls a one eighty pretty

614
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 3: much overnight.

615
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 2: The Surgeon General, Uh what a what a title, what

616
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: an interesting like thing to be in charge of? It

617
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 2: was Leonard A. Shield S C. H. E. E. L. E.

618
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: I know there's a huge list online of all the

619
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 2: surgeon general. I don't know any of them.

620
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 3: I think most people don't.

621
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 2: But it's such a cool I don't know, it's such

622
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: a cool position. It seems really important.

623
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 3: It sounds like a Dungeons and Dragons class, right, you

624
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 3: know what I mean, like.

625
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 2: An insurgeon and the general.

626
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, his buffs are crazy. But people went from eagerly

627
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 3: supporting vaccination, extolling the virtues, exhorting each other to get vaccinated.

628
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 3: They went to believing it would actually kill them to

629
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: encounter not only this vaccination, but anybody who had received it.

630
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 3: And to their credit, they were not wing nuts, they

631
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 3: were not unintelligent people. They knew that this vaccine, in

632
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 3: this situation gave people the disease it purported to prevent.

633
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 4: That's right, And it just goes to show how one

634
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 4: mistake of this proportion, you know, with such public results,

635
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 4: can result in decades and decades of distrust, like to

636
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 4: claw that credibility back.

637
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 3: You know, you could argue it's still for some it's

638
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 3: not back. It's easier to close the door than to

639
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 3: open one, for sure.

640
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: Do you think do you guys think there's anything to

641
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 2: the nature of a patented vaccine that's produced by a

642
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 2: private company that is like the unseen nature of that,

643
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: especially in something that's an injectable like this, where you

644
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 2: don't know what it is, you know that this company

645
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 2: controls it. You watch it come out in a needle

646
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 2: that then just goes into your arm, and you have

647
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 2: to trust that whatever is in that needle is going

648
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 2: to be helpful for you and it's gonna, you know,

649
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 2: rather than hurt you, rather than I don't know, some

650
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 2: kind of I'm trying to think of it. I don't

651
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: know what the good comparison would be, but something that

652
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: you could look at and go, okay, there's no mold

653
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 2: on this. This looks fresh, This looks like the right

654
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: the way the tomato should look. It smells like a tomato. Okay,

655
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: it's good. I can eat that. I'm gonna be okay.

656
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,240
Speaker 2: But it's this weird, patented chemically thing that just gets

657
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: shot into your arm.

658
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 4: I mean, heck, even you know how some with the

659
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 4: epidemic of say, tainted street drugs, there are the very

660
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 4: least kits that people can use to test.

661
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 2: They're oh interesting, they're illegal drugs.

662
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, they've been around a long time.

663
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 4: So you can put a little whatever, I don't know

664
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 4: how it works, but put a little drop of something

665
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 4: on it and see if it's pure, if it's got

666
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 4: some adult trint in it.

667
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 3: This is a thing that's so new. There's no test

668
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 3: for it. There's no way. You just have to trust it.

669
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 3: And then if there were some sort of testing kit

670
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 3: for your vaccine, then who would manufacture that? That's right,

671
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like that's also say, then

672
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 3: you need a test for the test. You need a

673
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 3: test for the test of the test. Maybe we're the

674
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 3: wrong business because I think we just figured out design

675
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 3: test amazing rift. So yeah, who watches the watchman's situations?

676
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 3: And so as a result of this absolute disaster, there

677
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 3: are something like sixty lawsuits which off it traces in detail,

678
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 3: and the very first creates a judicial precedent that continues

679
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 3: in the West today. It's the idea of liability without fault,

680
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 3: which I know sounds very boring, and it's something that

681
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 3: doesn't really happen to human individuals, but it does happen

682
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 3: to corporations. They said, Look, Cutter Laboratories was not negligent

683
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 3: in their production of the vaccine, but they had violated

684
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 3: public trust because people believed it was safe. Sort of

685
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 3: like when you go on an airplane, he just kind

686
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 3: of assume the thing's going to land the way they

687
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:04,479
Speaker 3: told you it was going to land.

688
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 4: It is kind of weird when you really start to

689
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 4: think of how just living, you know, in the world,

690
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 4: you have to trust so many systems, and how the

691
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 4: erosion of that trust, you know, whether for a good

692
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 4: reason or not, really prevents you from kind of living

693
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 4: a normal life and can really lead to some serious difficulties,

694
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 4: just like you know, in getting around or in you know,

695
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 4: being healthy. You know, and there's people that really go

696
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 4: down those rabbit holes of distrust. And again it is

697
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 4: sometimes for good reason. But is it trusting blindly or

698
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 4: is it just deciding that I'm not going to live

699
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 4: in fear? I think there's some I don't know. The

700
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 4: smart move is somewhere in between those two.

701
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, the best way to describe human existence is probably

702
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 3: like a non consensual group project, you know what I mean.

703
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 3: No one signed up for it, no one's really no

704
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 3: one decided to be born on purpose for a thing,

705
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 3: and you just sort of get this group and you're like, oh, gosh,

706
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 3: I hope there aren't too many problems today.

707
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 2: I was trying to come up with a sound that

708
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: would encapsulate the human experience.

709
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 3: And oh it's the Curby your Enthusiasm soundtrack or the

710
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 3: sad trombone.

711
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: This is this is my pitch ready, all right?

712
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 3: Wow, perfect cut? Yeah, yeah, nailed it, like.

713
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 2: Poetry, immediate awe and then just goes downhill.

714
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 3: From there, right. And that's what we see here, this

715
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 3: concept of liability without fault. It sounds boring, it's very

716
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 3: important because it means that companies are can be held

717
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 3: responsible for the effects of the things they create and sell,

718
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 3: even if they were not negligent in their design and

719
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 3: manu factor. And this gets us to a different conversation

720
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 3: about pharmaceuticals, about you know, firearms, all the fun stuff.

721
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 3: But what we see here is a standing case of disaster.

722
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 3: It affects absolutely everyone listening in the modern day spoiler,

723
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 3: even if you have never been to the US, and

724
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 3: you never plan to visit. It's the worst vaccine disaster

725
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 3: in US history, and the first. I think there are

726
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 3: like three big consequences. The first one, innocent people died,

727
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 3: and they died because they trusted a group of powerful

728
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 3: people who made some terrible mistakes. I don't think there's

729
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 3: a conspiracy. I don't think they did it on purpose.

730
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 3: Like to the earlier point you guys made, if you

731
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 3: wanted to kill a lot of people in this manner,

732
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 3: then why didn't all the vaccines kill them?

733
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 2: No, you're absolutely right. Of people didn't die, like let

734
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 2: me go paralized.

735
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 3: It's true though, I mean that's that's also you know,

736
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: we have some fellow conspiracy realist listening this evening who

737
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 3: may be partially or fully paralyzed. Right, And there are

738
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 3: certainly still people.

739
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 4: Alive today that are still, you know, dealing with the

740
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 4: aftermath of the stuff.

741
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, history is way closer than it looks in

742
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 3: the rear view mirror. Right. The second consequence, or to

743
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 3: sow up the first one, it does not seem like

744
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 3: there is proof of a grand conspiracy. It seems the

745
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 3: truth is even more frightening. People got in a hurry

746
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 3: and as a result of moving from fear and being

747
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 3: in a hurry. They messed up.

748
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: In social pressure, right, Yes, it's that like time plus

749
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 2: pressure equal you make mistakes. And if you don't have

750
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 2: a governing body or some kind of regulatory organization or

751
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 2: third party that is going behind you and checking your work,

752
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: then you can make a mistake like this.

753
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 3: And maybe you should listen to scientists, because human history

754
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 3: is just rife with scientists at experts raising their hands

755
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 3: and saying, hey, wait, you know what I mean, shout

756
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,879
Speaker 3: out Samuelvies. They should not have killed that guy. Think

757
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:30,439
Speaker 3: about it.

758
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 2: As I agree, by the way, but I imagine it

759
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 2: as like a moon mission or something like, there's so

760
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 2: much pressure to do it. You got really a ton

761
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 2: of smart people working on the problem, but nobody checks

762
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 2: any of the work, so they just kind of go

763
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: with it and just oh wait, whoops, we missed by

764
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 2: like a lot.

765
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 3: Uh dang, the rockets take it off, and someone's like, wait,

766
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,760
Speaker 3: did anyone put glass in the windows?

767
00:48:58,160 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 2: But that's but that's one of the I mean, like

768
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: stress testing a product, anything like this, a plan, a strategy.

769
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 2: It's one of the most important parts of a plan

770
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: or a strategy right is to just is to test

771
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: it out and see how it functions and test an

772
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 2: end product. And it does feel like that for my money,

773
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 2: that was the mistake in this instance.

774
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that leads us to the second consequence,

775
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 3: which is Americans increasingly distrusted their government and a healthy

776
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 3: skepticism of authority is inherent to the American experiment. But

777
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 3: this distrust is valid as it was because again those

778
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 3: people got polio. There's no way are out as valid

779
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 3: as it was. This distrust has directly resulted in the

780
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:54,720
Speaker 3: loss of further life. That leads us to the third consequence.

781
00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 3: Polio survived. It's real. We cannot over if the size.

782
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 3: How much that sucks.

783
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty much gone pretty much Yeah, And

784
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 2: again statistically it was gone for almost all of the

785
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 2: Western world. Most of the world were the only couple

786
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 2: of places Asia and for a while was it Nigeria.

787
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, But is that because it's really resilient or it

788
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,439
Speaker 4: just wasn't actually fully eradicated. It kind of hung out

789
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 4: dormant and then said, ah, I'm mac.

790
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 3: There are a couple of reasons. Unfortunately, the fumbles here

791
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 3: are man made in Nigeria. For a long time, one

792
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 3: of the most prevalent conspiracy theories was that people were

793
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 3: being sterilized through vaccination, and they were like, the idea is, hey,

794
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 3: these Western groups, these NGOs are pretending to help you,

795
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 3: but what they're really trying to do is depopulate your.

796
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 2: So a bunch of people don't get the vaccinations, so

797
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,439
Speaker 2: then herd immunity is a lessened or gone, and then

798
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 2: people get infected again, cycle cycles.

799
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 3: And this is something to your points right now. If

800
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 3: you're looking at the largest Poleo populations, you're going to

801
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 3: find them in Pakistan and Afghanistan. And there are a

802
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 3: lot of factors to it, like you just described, Matt,

803
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 3: but one of the most intriguing factors is yet again

804
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 3: the US messed up, and they messed up very bad

805
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 3: in this one. You guys, No, you've heard of.

806
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 2: This, right, I don't know much about this thing. Tell

807
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:49,919
Speaker 2: me about this. I do not know so either.

808
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 3: All right. So there's this guy named Osama bin Laden.

809
00:51:53,280 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 3: He's a real pos He's kind of a pill. Uh,

810
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 3: I would say, so, yeah, I hope that's not a

811
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 3: hot take, but I don't care for him, you know.

812
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 3: So there's this global search for obl for Osama bin Laden.

813
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 3: And that's in itself, that's a story for another evening,

814
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 3: right because all right, it's I know Matt's art. For

815
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 3: everybody listening. Matt just like arked one eyebrow as like,

816
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 3: is now the time is it? Is it today?

817
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 2: Let's do it. Get the stealth helicopter guys.

818
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 3: And then just throw the body of the ocean whatever

819
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 3: the CIA launched. This is true. The CIA launched a

820
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 3: fake Hepatitis B vaccination grift to collect DNA in the

821
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 3: neighborhood that they believed was harboring obl And they were saying, obviously,

822
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 3: you know, bin Laden's not going to come out out

823
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 3: and get his B vax, but maybe one of his

824
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 3: family members will. This operation absolutely failed on multiple fronts. First,

825
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,240
Speaker 3: it didn't do what they wanted. That's not the reason

826
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:21,760
Speaker 3: they found quote unquote found Osama bin Laden. The worst

827
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 3: consequence of this is that it absolutely wrecked any non

828
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 3: Western trust in Western vaccines. Like they faked a vaccine

829
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 3: program to find and kill a person.

830
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 2: It's really so short sighted. You could have done an

831
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 2: actual vaccination program.

832
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 3: You could have also done that part. You would have

833
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:44,240
Speaker 3: helped people.

834
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you still have had the same result, no whatever,

835
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 2: Leslie F.

836
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:56,919
Speaker 3: Roberts from Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health, real thing.

837
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 3: Professor Roberts said, forevermore people would say this disease meaning polio,

838
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 3: this crippled child is because the US was so crazy

839
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 3: to get Asama bin laden. So now in parts of

840
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 3: the world where polio is endemic, it is blamed upon

841
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 3: Western governments, dude.

842
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 2: And that's there's this whole other thing that we even

843
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,399
Speaker 2: even talked about, and we're already gosh, we're an hour

844
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 2: in this episode. Almost The SV forty thing, what is

845
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 2: it been, simeon virus something, what is it?

846
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, SV forty, simion virus forty. It is there is

847
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 3: a long running concern, you could say suspicion, you could

848
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 3: say conspiracy theory that SV forty gives people cancer and

849
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 3: that if someone is receiving polio vaccines contaminated with this

850
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 3: monkey virus specific le between nineteen fifty five and nineteen

851
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,879
Speaker 3: sixty three, that it led to a much higher rate

852
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 3: of contracting cancer. So the argument is similar to like

853
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 3: asbestos and mes lithemioma or lead and crime.

854
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 2: But it is weird because there's it's one of these

855
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,320
Speaker 2: things that you'll find on fact checking websites in places

856
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 2: like the AP News will put out a special you

857
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 2: can find on right now, a special fact checking article

858
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:35,760
Speaker 2: about this because there's some parts that are true. SV forty,

859
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 2: this simion virus is used. Constituent parts of it are

860
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 2: used to build things or components of a vaccine, several vaccines.

861
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 2: But then and this virus does cause cancer in rodents

862
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 2: in laboratory settings, but the same scientists running those things,

863
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 2: running those experiments and those trials, also find that it

864
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 2: doesn't seem to cause cancer in humans. So it's all

865
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 2: like it becomes muddled, especially for somebody like me that

866
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 2: doesn't have a medical background that is just kind of

867
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 2: going off the medical terminology that's written in these like

868
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 2: places online. They're like, Okay, I think I understand what

869
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 2: you're saying. This still feels a little creepy to me.

870
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially the virus itself in like the Recis monkey.

871
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 3: It's an infection that doesn't give them cancer, Yes, right, exactly.

872
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's I think the uncertainty that we

873
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 2: always talk about, Ben, the uncertainty is the scary thing

874
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 2: at all times.

875
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true. I think I think you're on the

876
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 3: money with that. There is much more to the story

877
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 3: SV forty. We had to mention it. As you can tell,

878
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,359
Speaker 3: we are not medical professionals. Nothing of this podcast should

879
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 3: be taken as metal advice. Had to get that one

880
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 3: in there, right.

881
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 2: Guys, thank you?

882
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 3: Does that Seyas? Yeah?

883
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:07,439
Speaker 2: That makes sense?

884
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 3: Okay. We also haven't talked about the Russian disinfo campaigns

885
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 3: surrounding COVID nineteen. Another story for another time. But there

886
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 3: is some good news. As we were going in to

887
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 3: record this evening this very day, February twenty sixth, twenty

888
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 3: twenty four, the Health Ministry of Afghanistan announced a new

889
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 3: massive polio vaccination effort. They want to protect something like

890
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 3: seven point six million children under the age of five

891
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 3: from the endemic disease of polio. But now we have

892
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 3: to wonder how will this be accepted on the ground.

893
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 3: You know, if you live in a village in Afghanistan

894
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 3: and then you have someone come up and say, hey,

895
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 3: the Americans have a vaccine and they'd very much like

896
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 3: to give it to your child. Yeah, what would you say.

897
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: No, legs. I really appreciate it though, really pass Yeah,

898
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 2: I've realized what was happening in my brain. S V

899
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 2: four D is triggering in my head like Call of

900
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 2: Duty and all these games I've played because of the

901
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 2: SVD sniper rifle. It's the like Russian built draw again. No,

902
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 2: I don't have to say it correctly, but it's the sniper.

903
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 2: It's the sniper rifle that was very popular in Russia

904
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 2: or USSR for a long time. But it's called SVD.

905
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 2: So when you say s V four D, you just

906
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 2: put a little four in between there.

907
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 3: Sorry, it made me think of w D four d

908
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 3: ah because I am woefully uninformed about most things. I

909
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 3: don't know whether you can use it as an engine loop.

910
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 3: You probably shouldn't you Probably you should probably just not

911
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 3: have primate viruses on hand.

912
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. The one thing I know about WD forty, and

913
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 2: it says it on all the bottles, is that it's penetrating,

914
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 2: and I just feel uncomfortable with that.

915
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 3: It's definitely a choice. It's definitely a choice on their end.

916
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 3: So what do we think, guys? Is this something? Is

917
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 3: this a conversation that continues? It feels like we gave

918
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 3: ourselves some homework for some future episodes. I don't like

919
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 3: I know it's again Like we said at the top,

920
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 3: it's a very simple, uncomplicated subject, vaccination. What do we

921
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 3: want to hear from our fellow conspiracy realist.

922
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 2: I want people, if this is okay, this is one thing.

923
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 2: I want people to check out the CDC's article. It's

924
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 2: actually maybe just a landing page titled historical vaccine safety Concerns,

925
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 2: and it's got a list with a pull down and

926
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 2: you of things like the Cutter incident, the SV forty

927
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 2: simean virus incident, the swine flew vaccine and how do

928
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 2: you say that Gianbar syndrome. I mean, it's everything. It's

929
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 2: got all the concerns into one like set up in

930
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 2: one spot. I want to know what people's concerns are

931
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 2: for real about this stuff. And then also like, what

932
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 2: are you doing to protect yourself and your family and

933
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 2: everybody around you in your neighborhood and your state every like?

934
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 2: Because getting a vaccine to me still feels like the

935
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 2: right thing, even though I've got I feel some type

936
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 2: of way about it at times. So I don't know,

937
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 2: I just how are you dealing with that? If you're

938
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 2: listening to this?

939
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 3: What about you, Neil?

940
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 4: I mean, look, I think I've mentioned before on the

941
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 4: show that you know, when we got our kid vaccinated

942
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 4: early on, there were a few that I think we delayed,

943
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 4: didn't do them all in one go, because there's some

944
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 4: sources that we were reading up on on you know,

945
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 4: my kid's mom and I that were just indicating that

946
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 4: pumping all of that in one fell swoop could be

947
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 4: a little much.

948
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 3: For such a small system.

949
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 4: You know, That's about as far as I've ever gone

950
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 4: in terms of like distrusting any of the medical science,

951
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 4: especially after such a long time, you know, with the

952
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 4: basic kind of vaccinations that are required for you know,

953
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 4: your child being able to attend school, and then after

954
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 4: a point with the COVID stuff, Yeah, we've all gotten it.

955
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 4: I'd like to live my life with some degree of

956
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:39,439
Speaker 4: trust of medical science. I know healthcare in the United

957
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 4: States isn't always what it's cracked up to be, but

958
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 4: I would like to think that at the heart of

959
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 4: it is the desire to help people, and that no

960
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 4: one's trying to feed us any secret microchips or five

961
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 4: G or anything like that.

962
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 3: You know. I just that's I have to I just

963
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 3: it's too much.

964
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 4: For me to choose to live otherwise, live my life

965
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 4: you know, looking for the conspiracy and stuff like that.

966
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 3: I don't know. I would like to hear. I would

967
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 3: like to hear from our listeners, folks, everything that the

968
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 3: guys just described There'd also like to hear what you

969
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 3: would keep in a bunker, and would love to hear

970
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 3: your opinions on the nineteen eighty eight cinematic masterpiece Vibes

971
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 3: starring Jeff Goldbloom and Cindy Lapper. Tell us your thoughts,

972
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 3: you know, odd Vibes, but also on the other stuff

973
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 3: from this episode. Tell us if we should do an

974
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 3: episode on obl talking to some tourists out there. If

975
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 3: you are able to give us the scooper the skinny,

976
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 3: then we try to be easy to find online. That's right.

977
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 4: You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where

978
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 4: we exist on Facebook, where you can find our Facebook group.

979
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy.

980
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 4: We also exist at that handle on xa, Twitter, as

981
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 4: well as YouTube, where we roll out new video content

982
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 4: every single week. You can find us in the handle

983
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 4: Conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram and TikTok.

984
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 2: Hey, we have a phone number. Why don't you give

985
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 2: us a call. It's one eight three three st d

986
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 2: wytk let us know if you're gonna take a tactical

987
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 2: hammer or a tactical hatchet into the bunker with you.

988
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 2: I love that idea of you. You get one or

989
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 2: the other and that's it.

990
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 3: That's so weird. Also, also, just on that poll for

991
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 3: anybody playing along at home on our social media, we had,

992
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 3: we owe a great deal of thanks to our pals

993
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 3: Erica and west Over at Station sixteen. They did not

994
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 3: include the number one thing you should have when you're

995
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 3: thinking about bunkers, which is a secondary backup bunker.

996
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 2: Oh, I thought you're gonna say that was your first question.

997
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 4: You're like primary or secondary? Gonna get to the bunker question.

998
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 3: You gotta have to is.

999
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 2: It a bunker inside the other bunker below secondary the

1000
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 2: primary bunker?

1001
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 3: Nice? Try yeah, nar.

1002
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 2: Collar, tell us about your bunker and tell us where

1003
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: yours is so we could come hang out. Just kidding.

1004
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 2: Don't just don't give out information like that. If you

1005
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 2: don't want to do that, why not instead send us

1006
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 2: a good old fashioned email.

1007
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 3: We are the folks who read every single email we get.

1008
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 3: Give us the links, give us the pictures, give us

1009
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 3: the context. We love hearing from you. Shout out to

1010
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 3: Papa Caps.

1011
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but that oh, what is it? The oh,

1012
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 2: I can't remember the name of the sweet sweet, super

1013
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 2: spicy hot saucy makes up. There's Illinois.

1014
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 4: It was a ghostye right, or some flavor of maybe

1015
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 4: a variety of the ghost pepper.

1016
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 3: We're gonna find out. Yeah, we sure will. We'll find

1017
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 3: out together. Also, just to get in front of it.

1018
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 3: The Larry David SNL clip we mentioned earlier is FBI

1019
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 3: simulator featuring Larry David as Kevin Roberts. Please do check

1020
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 3: it out respect yeah.

1021
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:05,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

1022
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 3: And while you're checking that out, that means you're probably online,

1023
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 3: so finally get into the end. Send us an email

1024
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 3: conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1025
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1026
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1027
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.