Speaker 1: In Pike County, the first witnesses and the murder trial
Speaker 1: of George Wagner the Fourth took the stand. Imagine this.
Speaker 1: You go to your sister's house, to your nephew's house,
Speaker 1: you open the door, and you find them shot to
Speaker 1: death in bed. It sounds medieval almost, But George Wagner
Speaker 1: the Fourth's lawyers disputed almost all of that. They also
Speaker 1: pointed out that their client, despite facing eight aggravated murder charges,
Speaker 1: is not believed to have killed anyone. This is the
Speaker 1: Pikes and Massacre Returned to Pike County Season four, Episode
Speaker 1: three con Artists and Liars. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television
Speaker 1: producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff Shane.
Speaker 1: On the first day of the trial of George Wagner
Speaker 1: the fourth, opening statements for the prosecution clocked in at
Speaker 1: four hours. It raised some eyebrows among media and legal
Speaker 1: experts for its length and amount of detail. After a
Speaker 1: lunch break, it was time for the defense to make
Speaker 1: their case heard. The defense attorneal here is Richard Nash.
Speaker 1: Is the defense ready to give an opening statement? Yes,
Speaker 1: you're I do so. It's important to note that George Wagner,
Speaker 1: the fourth who is currently on trial, and his father,
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have pleaded not guilty
Speaker 1: to all charges. Good afternoon, everybody. April the twenty second
Speaker 1: and twenty sixteen. George Wagner lived on Peterson Road and
Speaker 1: that day started off like most days. Nash is in
Speaker 1: his mid forties, bald, with a beard and glasses. He
Speaker 1: wears a bright red tie. Nash jumps right into the
Speaker 1: defense's narrative of what happened in the morning after the murders.
Speaker 1: George knew he had one task that he had to
Speaker 1: do that day, and that was to disassembly building a
Speaker 1: wood shed, so to speak. That was the one thing
Speaker 1: that he had to do. But before George could take
Speaker 1: off to do that, he noticed that Jake was often
Speaker 1: that new barn up on that hill on Peterson Road.
Speaker 1: Nash is alluding to a barn that sits on a
Speaker 1: hill above where the entire Wagner family resided at the
Speaker 1: time of the murders. At that point, nothing seemed suspicious
Speaker 1: to George, although again it was off that Jake was
Speaker 1: already up that day, and usually Jake is the second
Speaker 1: to rise while they were headed back home to Peterson Road.
Speaker 1: Jake's cell phone went off there the caller was Andrew Carson.
Speaker 1: Andrew Carson said hello, Jake, and there he had a conversation,
Speaker 1: and that's when he thought he was the first to
Speaker 1: tell je that the mother of his child, Hannah, had
Speaker 1: been murdered, along with six of her relatives. Jake, according
Speaker 1: to mister Carson, put on an act worthy of an
Speaker 1: Academy Award, an act where he calmed Carson into thinking
Speaker 1: that he was the first to tell him as he
Speaker 1: wept and cried on the phone. And that is the
Speaker 1: first time George learning about murders. It's at this point
Speaker 1: the whole world becomes privy to the defense's main argument,
Speaker 1: George was not there that night and didn't know about
Speaker 1: the murders until the next day. This is the first
Speaker 1: time we're hearing about this, let alone, at his trial.
Speaker 1: It's a pretty bold moved by the defense to say
Speaker 1: he wasn't there period. My takeaway is that what George
Speaker 1: Wagner is attempting to do, which is a pretty interesting strategy,
Speaker 1: is remove himself from the culpability of even being aware
Speaker 1: that the murders were happening, and letting them happen, and
Speaker 1: it might work. I mean, the only evidence that we
Speaker 1: know of that the prosecution has is the shoeprint. As
Speaker 1: we know, there's nothing really tying George Wagner to the
Speaker 1: Rodan murders the night of the murders, and this is
Speaker 1: a plausible work around that the defense has come up
Speaker 1: with or is possibly the truth. We don't know. That's
Speaker 1: yet to be proven. But wouldn't that completely discount what
Speaker 1: his brother Jake Wagner is saying. It would staf But
Speaker 1: what I think George Wagner is doing is thinking about
Speaker 1: his own safety at this point. He's not worried about
Speaker 1: what Jake's plea deal is or what Angel has plea
Speaker 1: deal is. He's worried about himself. What a showdown that's
Speaker 1: actually going to be when you take this part into
Speaker 1: account as well. So for the first time, George Wagner
Speaker 1: is going to see his brother, Jake Wagner, but they're
Speaker 1: also gonna completely disagree on the story. Shakespeare couldn't have
Speaker 1: written this better himself. I mean, we've heard how close
Speaker 1: these two brothers were for years growing up, that they
Speaker 1: stood by each other, that they protected one another. Now
Speaker 1: this contradictory story is really going to play out in court.
Speaker 1: And you know, we've been wrong before in terms of
Speaker 1: what our theories are, what we think. But I have
Speaker 1: a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that
Speaker 1: George Wagner did not know about these murders. Here's reporter
Speaker 1: Anjeanette Levy. I think it's interesting that they say that
Speaker 1: George wasn't even there, and I guess they have to
Speaker 1: write because if he's there, he's going down for aggravated murder,
Speaker 1: so they can't concede that point to the state. But
Speaker 1: they've talked about in a pre trial motion in the
Speaker 1: past that Jake said that George went along at the
Speaker 1: last minute because he feared that Billy might kill Jake
Speaker 1: at the end of the night. They've quoted Jake as
Speaker 1: saying that local journalist James Pilcher was also in the courtroom.
Speaker 1: The defense is clearly stating that George wasn't there, that
Speaker 1: the first he heard about the murders was the next morning,
Speaker 1: and that Jake had gotten up before him and was
Speaker 1: getting rid of the evidence that morning before he even
Speaker 1: got up. And that was surprising to me that they
Speaker 1: would play that gambit. But really really hammering on the
Speaker 1: fact that there is absolutely not one shred of physical
Speaker 1: evidence specifically tying George Wagner to the scene of the
Speaker 1: crimes or that he killed anybody, So they are going
Speaker 1: to leverage that as much as possible. As this trag
Speaker 1: goes on, it's clear at this point that the defense
Speaker 1: is going all in against the rest of the Wagner family.
Speaker 1: Nash continues to separate George from his relatives. After some time,
Speaker 1: BCI had narrowed down who they felt were suspects. In fact,
Speaker 1: it's worthy to note that BCI had interviewed Jake Wagner
Speaker 1: four times. BCI, conducting their investigation, also felt it was
Speaker 1: important that they interviewed Angela Wagner. The third person that
Speaker 1: they felt that was important to talk to in the
Speaker 1: Wagner household was Billy Wagner. George was right there. Not
Speaker 1: once did they ever ask to speak with George. Earlier
Speaker 1: that day, during the prosecution's opening statement, Angie Knepper revealed
Speaker 1: that authorities kept tabs on the Wagners before their arrests,
Speaker 1: even when they were in Alaska. When the family decided
Speaker 1: to come back to Ohio, investigators were waiting for them
Speaker 1: at the US Canadian border. Imagine if you will, for
Speaker 1: individuals being surprised at a Montana border, agents putting them
Speaker 1: in separate rooms and BCI walking in and questioning them. First,
Speaker 1: Billy gets in the vehicle, he's released first, and then
Speaker 1: Angela gets in the vehicle. Not a word, not a
Speaker 1: word about Oh my gosh, can you believe that happened?
Speaker 1: What they think we did this? No conversation like that
Speaker 1: at all, no conversation at all about what just happened.
Speaker 1: We find out later that there's a reason for that,
Speaker 1: because Billy had told them, you know, be quiet. The
Speaker 1: defense tells its side of the story. We had special
Speaker 1: agents who had four different rooms where they spoke with
Speaker 1: all four family members. And George had an agent there
Speaker 1: speaking with him, special Agent Pagan, and he told George,
Speaker 1: your family has big problems. George, do you want to
Speaker 1: be a witness or do you want to be a suspect?
Speaker 1: Here again. James Pilcher, he was being questioned by the
Speaker 1: BCI when they came across the border in Montana, and
Speaker 1: he said, yeah, he had problems with his family, but
Speaker 1: he never knew them to be violent. He couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1: He couldn't believe they would kill somebody. Needs at nine,
Speaker 1: Special Prosecutor Anti Kaneppa objects and she and defense attorney
Speaker 1: Nash approached the bench and huddle with Judge Deering. It
Speaker 1: is very highly unusual that the prosecution would interrupt somebody
Speaker 1: just five minutes into their opening statement. And at that
Speaker 1: point they went to the bench and argued for two minutes,
Speaker 1: and then went back into chambers and argued for another
Speaker 1: eight to nine minutes. And then the judge says, you know,
Speaker 1: opening statements amount evidence. So clearly the prosecution was trying
Speaker 1: to say he's throwing this out there, and he does
Speaker 1: an envy proof for it, and he needs to be
Speaker 1: called doubt. You might continue your old Thank you, judge.
Speaker 1: So back to that interview room with Special Agent Hageman,
Speaker 1: he had just a few statements to make. Then he said,
Speaker 1: if I don't know who did it, then you all
Speaker 1: go down for conspiracy. And so Hageman never received any information.
Speaker 1: And here George says, if I don't hear who did it,
Speaker 1: you all go down for conspiracy. This is a trial
Speaker 1: about the State of Ohio against George Wacker. It's not
Speaker 1: the Wagners, it's not Billy Wager. It's not Angela Wagner,
Speaker 1: nor is it Jake Wacker. This is all about George.
Speaker 1: There are certain things in life that we can't control.
Speaker 1: One of those things is our birth name. Unfortunately, George
Speaker 1: cannot help that he's a Waggener. But that doesn't make
Speaker 1: him a murderer. They are clearly relying on the fact
Speaker 1: that the prosecution has burned over here they can just
Speaker 1: play defense and swat away anything, or that they can
Speaker 1: sit there and say, well, George didn't know anything, and
Speaker 1: how can you prove it. George gets more animated as
Speaker 1: his attorney speaks, making eye contact with the cherry. The
Speaker 1: media outside the courthouse is quick to comment and what
Speaker 1: the defense has really done well out is really trying
Speaker 1: to paint George as an individual, an individual who happened
Speaker 1: to be part of a family who had kind of
Speaker 1: a sordid pass and a pass with corruption and other
Speaker 1: criminal behavior. But their argument essentially is just because his
Speaker 1: family is this way doesn't mean that he's this way,
Speaker 1: and it certainly doesn't make him a murderer. As you
Speaker 1: hear the evidence in this case, there's five things I
Speaker 1: want you to pay attention to. The first is going
Speaker 1: to be what Jake says. Jake will tell you that
Speaker 1: George had nothing to do with the plan of these murders.
Speaker 1: Jake will tell you that George shot no one. Jake
Speaker 1: will tell you that George did nothing to destroy any evidence.
Speaker 1: Is clearly pointing the finger at Jake and Angela and Billy,
Speaker 1: and that George had nothing to do with it. So
Speaker 1: do they just change their story because now they've seen
Speaker 1: all of the evidence and are just sort of making
Speaker 1: a strategy switch. Yeah, I think so. And I think
Speaker 1: what they're gonna do is just called the credibility Jake
Speaker 1: and Angela, because that's what this case relies on. The
Speaker 1: second thing that I want you to pay attention to
Speaker 1: will be the credibility of Angela and Jake. The third
Speaker 1: thing that I want you to pay attention to is
Speaker 1: the incentives that were offered by the State of Ohio
Speaker 1: for such hin as crimes that Angela and Jake to
Speaker 1: get them to talk, to get them to tell a story.
Speaker 1: This is a family of con artists, liars, and deeds.
Speaker 1: He says that in the over and that Jake became
Speaker 1: the vessel for all of that, and George was not
Speaker 1: like them. George wanted to get away from them, and
Speaker 1: it's up to the prosecution to prove otherwise. That second
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to talk to you about is Jake
Speaker 1: and Angela, who are con artists and liars. We've already
Speaker 1: touched on it some, but Angela's the con artist through
Speaker 1: and through. That's who the state has is the key witness,
Speaker 1: con artist and liars. Clearly, the defensive strategy is going
Speaker 1: to be these people are liars. Can't believe the thing
Speaker 1: they said. They've lied before. What makes you think they're
Speaker 1: not lying now? The con didn't stop? Then it's content.
Speaker 1: It's who they are. They've called the state of Ohio
Speaker 1: into the mostainous crime, into a thirty year sentence, in
Speaker 1: the sentence most deserving of death, he escapes with life.
Speaker 1: The plea deal is what I'm speaking of. In order
Speaker 1: to avoid the death penalty, they must implicate George. We're
Speaker 1: going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 1: As Nashley is into the rest of the Wagners, George
Speaker 1: listens with a hint of sadness on his face. Going
Speaker 1: back to the morning after the murders, the defense lays
Speaker 1: out their story according to Nash, Jake was in the
Speaker 1: barn destroying cell phones, burning clothes, and breaking down the
Speaker 1: silencers and weapons used in the murders. There's no physical
Speaker 1: evidence George was at any of those murder scenes. There's
Speaker 1: no DNA, there's no prints, VCIU. He had no motive.
Speaker 1: Outside the courtroom, Mike Allen comments, Sure, seems like it's
Speaker 1: a strong case for the state, But you know the defense.
Speaker 1: I don't think they'd be taken this to trial unless
Speaker 1: they thought they had something. So it's going to be
Speaker 1: interesting to see again two of the family members plat
Speaker 1: out two to give people backstory. That's correct to plat out.
Speaker 1: I think the States loaded for bear, But again, we
Speaker 1: just don't know what the defense strategy is. It's going
Speaker 1: to be interesting to see the defense closes by once
Speaker 1: again highlighting the character differences between their client, George Wagner
Speaker 1: the fourth and the rest of the Wagner family. The
Speaker 1: last thing I want to tell you about is George
Speaker 1: is not like his mother, his father, or as a brother.
Speaker 1: He's different from them. George disagreed with the way that
Speaker 1: his family lived their life. He disagreed with them so
Speaker 1: much he actually engaged in physical fist fight with his father.
Speaker 1: George disliked the way that that family functioned so much
Speaker 1: he was not part of them that as soon as
Speaker 1: he could leave that home, as soon as he got
Speaker 1: his driver's license when he was sixteen years old, he left.
Speaker 1: He ran away. George, like most sixteen year olds, couldn't
Speaker 1: make it at sixteen, so unfortunately he had to come
Speaker 1: back home. We believe the evidence will show that George
Speaker 1: could not have committed these mothers, and it goes further.
Speaker 1: We believe the evidence will show that Jake in fact
Speaker 1: killed all eight, but he had to implicate his father
Speaker 1: in actually killing somebody. But the evidence will show that
Speaker 1: Jake killed all eight. We've heard mixed things about George
Speaker 1: over the years, but we also have heard that he
Speaker 1: was just very loved and had close friendships, had very
Speaker 1: close relationships. I go back to our interview with Chris Newcome,
Speaker 1: who was Angela Wagner's half brother, and he grew up
Speaker 1: very close with Jake and George, and he explained to
Speaker 1: us he felt completely betrayed by George, specifically because he
Speaker 1: considered him more like a brother than anything else, and
Speaker 1: he couldn't possibly imagine that he would have had anything
Speaker 1: to do with this more than any of the other
Speaker 1: family members, And so I guess, I mean, is it
Speaker 1: possible that George didn't do this and he's been roped
Speaker 1: into this awful crime by his family who was scheming
Speaker 1: to kind of bring him down with them. Either that
Speaker 1: or he's a really good liar. This is the outline,
Speaker 1: your bullet points. You're going to see this, this, and this. Now.
Speaker 1: The prosecution obviously went much longer. They have a much bunch,
Speaker 1: bigger case. They have all this evidence that they've been
Speaker 1: gathering for four years, and I've been able to present anybody,
Speaker 1: and so they just bumped it all over the jury.
Speaker 1: Knowing what we know now about the opening statements, what
Speaker 1: has been said, is it becoming impossible that he could
Speaker 1: walk free or does that still seem completely impossible. It
Speaker 1: depends on how believable the jury finds. Jake and Angela.
Speaker 1: Is it possible that he walks free? Absolutely as possible.
Speaker 1: You never can tell. The next morning, witness testimony begins.
Speaker 1: First up is victim Dana Roden's sister, Bobby Joe Manley.
Speaker 1: Bobby Manly and a friend found the first two victims,
Speaker 1: Chris Roden Senior, and his cousin Gary. That discovery was
Speaker 1: quickly followed by this English nine one one call, which
Speaker 1: was played for the jury. Yes, yes, forty seventy seventy
Speaker 1: thirty seventy seven, forty seventy seven. Okay, fot yer seven
Speaker 1: seven Emil correct, yes on the black all over the house. Right,
Speaker 1: my brother in laws who says he looks like I
Speaker 1: beat the hell out of them. Okay, because but all
Speaker 1: his heart words, what's your brother in law's name? Christ warning?
Speaker 1: Gary right? And Frank and Gary Rodan starts times in
Speaker 1: head looks like the dad. Do you think they're both dead?
Speaker 1: I think the great dead. And I phone has beak
Speaker 1: to pop out of them. Okay. If there's anybody else
Speaker 1: in the house, don't know us. Okay. So doors was awful.
Speaker 1: We got here, but on her he was and I
Speaker 1: went here and there letting on the floor and done. Okay,
Speaker 1: and enough starts right now. I'm okay to stay out
Speaker 1: of the house. Don't let anybody got in there. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, we don't deputing overlay. Okay, I thank you
Speaker 1: your mother. I think it's always just worth mentioning. So
Speaker 1: many listeners reach at on a regular basis giving us tips,
Speaker 1: and we take every one of them seriously and do
Speaker 1: our very best to go down the rabbit hole on
Speaker 1: each of them. We've also had listeners reach out to
Speaker 1: say they thought they heard something, for example, in the
Speaker 1: nine one one call, was there something else in the
Speaker 1: background that maybe we hadn't covered before, And we did
Speaker 1: look into that, for example, and ultimately we weren't able
Speaker 1: to hear anything that wasn't already reported. About anything that
Speaker 1: listeners send us, we put through a very strict filter
Speaker 1: of whether or not it's worth sharing on this platform.
Speaker 1: We don't want to share any rumors or any mistruths
Speaker 1: because we know how toxic that can be for the family.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we always encourage our listeners to share and
Speaker 1: interact with the show. After finding Chris Roden Senior and
Speaker 1: Gary Roden, manly told Kneppa she and her friend checked
Speaker 1: another trailer nearby and found the bullet riddled bodies of
Speaker 1: Frankie Rodin and his fiance Hannah Gilly. Mercifully, a baby
Speaker 1: boy whom Hannah Gilly was likely nursing at the time, survived,
Speaker 1: as would be expected. Bobby Joe still feels the trauma
Speaker 1: of that day last season, Jeff spoke with her niece,
Speaker 1: who was very close to Hannam Rodin to me and
Speaker 1: Hannah were only like six months and fourteen days apart,
Speaker 1: So you guys were up together. Yeah, we grew up together.
Speaker 1: We was pretty close her and my little brother was
Speaker 1: close to him, and Christopher wasn't very far apart either.
Speaker 1: When it first happened, Like, we was all really close
Speaker 1: with each other. And after the years started going out.
Speaker 1: The only other time we gather is like when we
Speaker 1: want to do like a one release or a candlelighting
Speaker 1: for another year of them being dead. I used to
Speaker 1: hang out a lot with Bobby Joe, but like after
Speaker 1: everything happened, she just like completely changed. When Bobby Joe
Speaker 1: takes the stand as the first witness in the trial
Speaker 1: of George Wagner the fourth there is no camera coverage.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people were watching the live stream,
Speaker 1: a lot of questions why was that? Why did that happen? Yeah,
Speaker 1: frustrating for people watching from home, frustrating for all of
Speaker 1: us covering the trial as well. It's because of an
Speaker 1: order from Judge Deering here that allows witnesses to either
Speaker 1: opt in or opt out. They can decide they don't
Speaker 1: want to be broadcast and that's video or audio. We
Speaker 1: fought it, but the judge has ruled officially before this
Speaker 1: trial started that that's the way it is going to be.
Speaker 1: Bobby Joe Manly tells her story to the jury, the
Speaker 1: media furiously taking notes in lieu of the camera feed.
Speaker 1: Bobby Joe, the youngest Manly sibling, was the first to
Speaker 1: find the bodies. Chris was Dana's ex husband. Bobby Joe
Speaker 1: and a friend, Billy Morgan, found a trail of blood
Speaker 1: leading to the bedroom. Chris and his cousin Gary were
Speaker 1: dead on the floor, covered by a comfiter. The prosecution
Speaker 1: also showed the jury photos from inside the trailers of Chris, Senior, Frankie,
Speaker 1: and Dana Rodin, including where the Wagner family is accused
Speaker 1: of dragging Chris's body back to his bedroom. There are
Speaker 1: three photos shown to the jury. The first is pointing
Speaker 1: back from the living room towards a cracked open front door.
Speaker 1: There's a vacuum and a child's play chair in the corner.
Speaker 1: On the couch or two camouflaged jackets. Kids shoes are
Speaker 1: strewn about the floor. There's a stick on logo next
Speaker 1: to the front door that says simply family. Another photo
Speaker 1: shows what looks to be a kid's room with a crib.
Speaker 1: The final photo is of a recliner in what looks
Speaker 1: to be the living room. There's a one foot wide
Speaker 1: streak of blood running from the base of the chair
Speaker 1: across the floor to somewhere else in the house. Anjeanette
Speaker 1: Levy was in the courtroom for the first morning of
Speaker 1: testimony for Bobby Joe being on the stand. I thought
Speaker 1: she did a really good job recalling some really horrific
Speaker 1: events in her life, getting up there and testifying to
Speaker 1: these really awful things that have happened to their family
Speaker 1: and finding them and all of the things that they saw.
Speaker 1: Also on the stands today was a Pike County deputy
Speaker 1: who responded to the scene. In fact, they got flagged
Speaker 1: down by Bobby Joe outside of Frankie Rodin and Hannah
Speaker 1: Hazel Gilli's house. I don't think anybody really wants to
Speaker 1: do that. When you're in public service, it's your job.
Speaker 1: And this is the biggest murder case in Ohio history.
Speaker 1: I'm so mad about this whole opting out crap, Like
Speaker 1: if these family members can get up there and talk
Speaker 1: about these awful things. Is it's somebody paid by the taxpayers,
Speaker 1: you should be able to get up there too and
Speaker 1: show your face and talk about this. It's one thing
Speaker 1: to be fearful, if you fear retribution. I can understand
Speaker 1: being scared. In this case. I understand Bobby Joe Manley.
Speaker 1: She seems like a very quiet person. I get that.
Speaker 1: When you have people in public service opting out, what
Speaker 1: message does that send? It also doesn't send a good message.
Speaker 1: When this is a you know, an area that sees
Speaker 1: a lot of police corruption, or at least has seen
Speaker 1: a lot of police corruption, you would think you'd want
Speaker 1: to get up there and take a stand and say,
Speaker 1: you know what, this is the process, this is the
Speaker 1: accountability we can offer, and it's been done right, and
Speaker 1: we aren't going to allow this type of thing to
Speaker 1: happen in our community. Dana Roden and Bobby Joe Manley's brother,
Speaker 1: James Manly, does not opt out. His testimony gives us
Speaker 1: the first word for word account of what happened that
Speaker 1: morning from the perspective of the surviving members of the
Speaker 1: Roden family. His words are few, good afternoon, How are
Speaker 1: you all right? Okay, can you please state your name
Speaker 1: for the record and spell your last name? Okay? Okay,
Speaker 1: And mister Manley, how old are you? Okay? James Manly
Speaker 1: has a beard and wears a black shirt. He sits
Speaker 1: back in his chair near the wall. Manly largely answers
Speaker 1: ange Gneppa's questions with one or two word answers. I
Speaker 1: know this witness isn't showing much emotion right now here
Speaker 1: on the stand. However, I can't imagine what it would
Speaker 1: be like to come upon that crime scene and see
Speaker 1: all of that. I think he's amazingly composed in that
Speaker 1: he's describing probably the most horrific day of his life.
Speaker 1: And to ask him to go through that step by
Speaker 1: step without breaking down, without being emotional, I think he's
Speaker 1: doing a really good job. This prosecut I think, can
Speaker 1: do a better job helping that witness paint that awful
Speaker 1: picture for the jury. If you have a witness that
Speaker 1: isn't as talkative as other people might be, the onus
Speaker 1: is on the prosecutor to then kind of get as
Speaker 1: close to a leading question as you can get, or
Speaker 1: as the judge might allow, because you're just not going
Speaker 1: to get it from the witness. Let's stop here for
Speaker 1: another break. Andrew Kneppa coax is more information out of
Speaker 1: James Manley, the only son and a family of three sisters.
Speaker 1: He uses the present tense to describe a sister Cathy,
Speaker 1: and the past tense to speak about his late sister
Speaker 1: Dana Roden. No whit, dad, joke, I'll find her. Something
Speaker 1: was wrong? And then what did you do? Jumped in?
Speaker 1: Looks up and follow him up? Do it? And where
Speaker 1: did you go? Frankie house? Okay? When he gets there,
Speaker 1: he finds Bobby Joe Manley distraught holding Hannah Hazel Gilly
Speaker 1: and Frankie Roden's baby. Ask her what can handle happen? Okay,
Speaker 1: you asked Bobby Joe. Bobby Joe breaks the news to
Speaker 1: her brother James about the four murders. Manly enters Frankie
Speaker 1: and Hannah Hazel's house. Can you describe what you saw?
Speaker 1: Blood everywhere? He said, blood everywhere? Okay? And when you
Speaker 1: say blood everywhere, can you tell us where? Specifics? On
Speaker 1: the body on the bed on the walls. Frankie Rodin
Speaker 1: and his fiance Hannah Hazel Gilly dead in bed. Hazel
Speaker 1: had been nursing their month's old son at the time.
Speaker 1: James Manly then drove to his sister Dana's house down
Speaker 1: the road to tell her her son was dead. After
Speaker 1: you knocked on the door and it opened, what did
Speaker 1: you do? Put you out of her name? Then? What happened? Live?
Speaker 1: Kept you on her name? What dirt? Benjam. At this point,
Speaker 1: Manly is showing emotion. His face is flushed as he
Speaker 1: describes finding his sister, Dana Roden's room is dark. He
Speaker 1: feels along the foot of her bed and touches her foot.
Speaker 1: He tries to wake her up. Man toward her head.
Speaker 1: And when you got to where you thought her head was,
Speaker 1: what did you do? I felt like a pillow of
Speaker 1: her head. I started picked a pillow up, and you
Speaker 1: feel like stup. So you started lifting up the pillow,
Speaker 1: but you could feel that it was sticking, yeah, stuck. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: And you said then you ran out of the house
Speaker 1: or when I just turned around out? Okay? And why
Speaker 1: did you do that? Like? What did you think? Because
Speaker 1: I fire sure you did? Okay? What made you think that? Cause? Brother,
Speaker 1: did you hear anything in the house? He could hear
Speaker 1: his niece, Hannah May Rowden's new baby crying in another room.
Speaker 1: He just couldn't bring himself to look. She was dead
Speaker 1: there too, her brother Chris Junior dead and yet another room.
Speaker 1: The final testimony of day one is from Justin Wearing.
Speaker 1: He's one of the EMT drivers who gets to Frankie
Speaker 1: and Hannah Hazel's house shortly after James Manley does. When
Speaker 1: he arrives, he sees kids in the yard. There were two.
Speaker 1: There was a young child that was probably four or
Speaker 1: five years old that was running around in the yard,
Speaker 1: and then there was an infant child who was around
Speaker 1: six months old. And did you notice anything unusual about
Speaker 1: the infant? The infant was covered with blood. His viber
Speaker 1: was saturated with blood. Images of an infant covered in
Speaker 1: the blood of his family are difficult to comprehend for
Speaker 1: everyone in the courtroom. This is only the beginning of
Speaker 1: a long, dark journey full of the horrific details of
Speaker 1: what happened that night in Pike County. We are also
Speaker 1: getting a first look at the crime scenes and the
Speaker 1: Pike County massacre, and we want to warn you some
Speaker 1: of the images are disturbing. We don't really know the
Speaker 1: full scope of what the Rodent family faced. Does the
Speaker 1: prosecution hold back any level of violence or the gore
Speaker 1: of that, or do they just put it all out
Speaker 1: there for them to see. Can you imagine the level
Speaker 1: of grief and despair they have to sit there and
Speaker 1: look at these autopsy photos. One of the issues, for instance,
Speaker 1: will be range a fire. How far was it from
Speaker 1: the end of the muzzle to a bullet hole in
Speaker 1: the forehead. I don't know that people can fully fathom
Speaker 1: what went on in those homes. It's monboggle. More on
Speaker 1: that next time. For more information on the case and
Speaker 1: relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 1: Chris Graves, Scott DeGraw, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong.
Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Twa. Music by Jared Aston.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Katie Studios. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit
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