WEBVTT - Con Artists & Liars 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:05.880 In Pike County, the first witnesses and the murder trial 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.920 of George Wagner the Fourth took the stand. Imagine this. 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:13.520 You go to your sister's house, to your nephew's house, 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.159 you open the door, and you find them shot to 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.480 death in bed. It sounds medieval almost, But George Wagner 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.400 the Fourth's lawyers disputed almost all of that. They also 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:27.120 pointed out that their client, despite facing eight aggravated murder charges, 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:36.199 is not believed to have killed anyone. This is the 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:40.320 Pikes and Massacre Returned to Pike County Season four, Episode 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:46.920 three con Artists and Liars. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.519 producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff Shane. 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.280 On the first day of the trial of George Wagner 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.760 the fourth, opening statements for the prosecution clocked in at 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:02.400 four hours. It raised some eyebrows among media and legal 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.640 experts for its length and amount of detail. After a 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:07.920 lunch break, it was time for the defense to make 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:13.280 their case heard. The defense attorneal here is Richard Nash. 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.800 Is the defense ready to give an opening statement? Yes, 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:21.120 you're I do so. It's important to note that George Wagner, 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.080 the fourth who is currently on trial, and his father, 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:28.000 Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have pleaded not guilty 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:34.680 to all charges. Good afternoon, everybody. April the twenty second 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:39.720 and twenty sixteen. George Wagner lived on Peterson Road and 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:44.280 that day started off like most days. Nash is in 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.800 his mid forties, bald, with a beard and glasses. He 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.440 wears a bright red tie. Nash jumps right into the 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.840 defense's narrative of what happened in the morning after the murders. 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.000 George knew he had one task that he had to 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:03.720 do that day, and that was to disassembly building a 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:06.720 wood shed, so to speak. That was the one thing 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:10.760 that he had to do. But before George could take 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:15.440 off to do that, he noticed that Jake was often 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:19.639 that new barn up on that hill on Peterson Road. 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.320 Nash is alluding to a barn that sits on a 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.560 hill above where the entire Wagner family resided at the 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:31.320 time of the murders. At that point, nothing seemed suspicious 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.560 to George, although again it was off that Jake was 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.480 already up that day, and usually Jake is the second 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:42.040 to rise while they were headed back home to Peterson Road. 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:48.799 Jake's cell phone went off there the caller was Andrew Carson. 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:57.480 Andrew Carson said hello, Jake, and there he had a conversation, 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.079 and that's when he thought he was the first to 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:04.919 tell je that the mother of his child, Hannah, had 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:10.919 been murdered, along with six of her relatives. Jake, according 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:15.200 to mister Carson, put on an act worthy of an 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:20.040 Academy Award, an act where he calmed Carson into thinking 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.960 that he was the first to tell him as he 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.520 wept and cried on the phone. And that is the 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:32.840 first time George learning about murders. It's at this point 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.800 the whole world becomes privy to the defense's main argument, 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.520 George was not there that night and didn't know about 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:43.360 the murders until the next day. This is the first 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.680 time we're hearing about this, let alone, at his trial. 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.680 It's a pretty bold moved by the defense to say 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:55.040 he wasn't there period. My takeaway is that what George 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.000 Wagner is attempting to do, which is a pretty interesting strategy, 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:03.760 is remove himself from the culpability of even being aware 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.640 that the murders were happening, and letting them happen, and 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.000 it might work. I mean, the only evidence that we 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.920 know of that the prosecution has is the shoeprint. As 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.760 we know, there's nothing really tying George Wagner to the 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.160 Rodan murders the night of the murders, and this is 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.280 a plausible work around that the defense has come up 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.120 with or is possibly the truth. We don't know. That's 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.240 yet to be proven. But wouldn't that completely discount what 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.200 his brother Jake Wagner is saying. It would staf But 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.280 what I think George Wagner is doing is thinking about 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:37.039 his own safety at this point. He's not worried about 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:38.760 what Jake's plea deal is or what Angel has plea 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:42.520 deal is. He's worried about himself. What a showdown that's 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:44.840 actually going to be when you take this part into 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.320 account as well. So for the first time, George Wagner 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.200 is going to see his brother, Jake Wagner, but they're 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:56.200 also gonna completely disagree on the story. Shakespeare couldn't have 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.040 written this better himself. I mean, we've heard how close 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.160 these two brothers were for years growing up, that they 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:05.039 stood by each other, that they protected one another. Now 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.760 this contradictory story is really going to play out in court. 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.320 And you know, we've been wrong before in terms of 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.359 what our theories are, what we think. But I have 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.440 a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:21.479 George Wagner did not know about these murders. Here's reporter 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:27.680 Anjeanette Levy. I think it's interesting that they say that 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.200 George wasn't even there, and I guess they have to 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.240 write because if he's there, he's going down for aggravated murder, 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.120 so they can't concede that point to the state. But 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.839 they've talked about in a pre trial motion in the 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.720 past that Jake said that George went along at the 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.560 last minute because he feared that Billy might kill Jake 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.600 at the end of the night. They've quoted Jake as 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:58.960 saying that local journalist James Pilcher was also in the courtroom. 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:03.400 The defense is clearly stating that George wasn't there, that 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.560 the first he heard about the murders was the next morning, 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.160 and that Jake had gotten up before him and was 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:14.520 getting rid of the evidence that morning before he even 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:19.840 got up. And that was surprising to me that they 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.800 would play that gambit. But really really hammering on the 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:27.240 fact that there is absolutely not one shred of physical 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:31.000 evidence specifically tying George Wagner to the scene of the 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:35.479 crimes or that he killed anybody, So they are going 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:39.680 to leverage that as much as possible. As this trag 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:44.799 goes on, it's clear at this point that the defense 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.719 is going all in against the rest of the Wagner family. 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:55.840 Nash continues to separate George from his relatives. After some time, 0:06:56.279 --> 0:07:02.600 BCI had narrowed down who they felt were suspects. In fact, 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:07.920 it's worthy to note that BCI had interviewed Jake Wagner 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:13.880 four times. BCI, conducting their investigation, also felt it was 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:20.080 important that they interviewed Angela Wagner. The third person that 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.040 they felt that was important to talk to in the 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:28.040 Wagner household was Billy Wagner. George was right there. Not 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:34.280 once did they ever ask to speak with George. Earlier 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:38.320 that day, during the prosecution's opening statement, Angie Knepper revealed 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:42.040 that authorities kept tabs on the Wagners before their arrests, 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.600 even when they were in Alaska. When the family decided 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.960 to come back to Ohio, investigators were waiting for them 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:54.360 at the US Canadian border. Imagine if you will, for 0:07:54.600 --> 0:08:00.120 individuals being surprised at a Montana border, agents putting them 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.920 in separate rooms and BCI walking in and questioning them. First, 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.440 Billy gets in the vehicle, he's released first, and then 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:10.000 Angela gets in the vehicle. Not a word, not a 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:13.720 word about Oh my gosh, can you believe that happened? 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.960 What they think we did this? No conversation like that 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.280 at all, no conversation at all about what just happened. 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:25.160 We find out later that there's a reason for that, 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:31.720 because Billy had told them, you know, be quiet. The 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.560 defense tells its side of the story. We had special 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.520 agents who had four different rooms where they spoke with 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:43.040 all four family members. And George had an agent there 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:48.320 speaking with him, special Agent Pagan, and he told George, 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.240 your family has big problems. George, do you want to 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.439 be a witness or do you want to be a suspect? 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.520 Here again. James Pilcher, he was being questioned by the 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:07.800 BCI when they came across the border in Montana, and 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.400 he said, yeah, he had problems with his family, but 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:12.960 he never knew them to be violent. He couldn't believe it. 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:15.559 He couldn't believe they would kill somebody. Needs at nine, 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:20.439 Special Prosecutor Anti Kaneppa objects and she and defense attorney 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.800 Nash approached the bench and huddle with Judge Deering. It 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:30.120 is very highly unusual that the prosecution would interrupt somebody 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:38.000 just five minutes into their opening statement. And at that 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:41.320 point they went to the bench and argued for two minutes, 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.360 and then went back into chambers and argued for another 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.800 eight to nine minutes. And then the judge says, you know, 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:54.440 opening statements amount evidence. So clearly the prosecution was trying 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.840 to say he's throwing this out there, and he does 0:09:57.840 --> 0:09:59.719 an envy proof for it, and he needs to be 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:04.560 called doubt. You might continue your old Thank you, judge. 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.720 So back to that interview room with Special Agent Hageman, 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.360 he had just a few statements to make. Then he said, 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.920 if I don't know who did it, then you all 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:21.319 go down for conspiracy. And so Hageman never received any information. 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.679 And here George says, if I don't hear who did it, 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:30.160 you all go down for conspiracy. This is a trial 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.440 about the State of Ohio against George Wacker. It's not 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:41.520 the Wagners, it's not Billy Wager. It's not Angela Wagner, 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:45.200 nor is it Jake Wacker. This is all about George. 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.400 There are certain things in life that we can't control. 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:54.760 One of those things is our birth name. Unfortunately, George 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:58.240 cannot help that he's a Waggener. But that doesn't make 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:06.080 him a murderer. They are clearly relying on the fact 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.000 that the prosecution has burned over here they can just 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:14.120 play defense and swat away anything, or that they can 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.920 sit there and say, well, George didn't know anything, and 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:21.199 how can you prove it. George gets more animated as 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:25.280 his attorney speaks, making eye contact with the cherry. The 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.040 media outside the courthouse is quick to comment and what 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.240 the defense has really done well out is really trying 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.400 to paint George as an individual, an individual who happened 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:37.720 to be part of a family who had kind of 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.640 a sordid pass and a pass with corruption and other 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.760 criminal behavior. But their argument essentially is just because his 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.480 family is this way doesn't mean that he's this way, 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:52.080 and it certainly doesn't make him a murderer. As you 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:54.679 hear the evidence in this case, there's five things I 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:58.360 want you to pay attention to. The first is going 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:03.640 to be what Jake says. Jake will tell you that 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:09.000 George had nothing to do with the plan of these murders. 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:14.880 Jake will tell you that George shot no one. Jake 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:21.000 will tell you that George did nothing to destroy any evidence. 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.280 Is clearly pointing the finger at Jake and Angela and Billy, 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:30.160 and that George had nothing to do with it. So 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.880 do they just change their story because now they've seen 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.319 all of the evidence and are just sort of making 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.520 a strategy switch. Yeah, I think so. And I think 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.680 what they're gonna do is just called the credibility Jake 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:46.160 and Angela, because that's what this case relies on. The 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.400 second thing that I want you to pay attention to 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:53.679 will be the credibility of Angela and Jake. The third 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:55.840 thing that I want you to pay attention to is 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.840 the incentives that were offered by the State of Ohio 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:04.080 for such hin as crimes that Angela and Jake to 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:08.800 get them to talk, to get them to tell a story. 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.079 This is a family of con artists, liars, and deeds. 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.320 He says that in the over and that Jake became 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.800 the vessel for all of that, and George was not 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.640 like them. George wanted to get away from them, and 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:26.200 it's up to the prosecution to prove otherwise. That second 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:29.360 thing I wanted to talk to you about is Jake 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:34.400 and Angela, who are con artists and liars. We've already 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.600 touched on it some, but Angela's the con artist through 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.920 and through. That's who the state has is the key witness, 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:48.439 con artist and liars. Clearly, the defensive strategy is going 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.280 to be these people are liars. Can't believe the thing 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.840 they said. They've lied before. What makes you think they're 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:59.880 not lying now? The con didn't stop? Then it's content. 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.240 It's who they are. They've called the state of Ohio 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:07.800 into the mostainous crime, into a thirty year sentence, in 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.160 the sentence most deserving of death, he escapes with life. 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.280 The plea deal is what I'm speaking of. In order 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:21.520 to avoid the death penalty, they must implicate George. We're 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.920 going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.240 As Nashley is into the rest of the Wagners, George 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.680 listens with a hint of sadness on his face. Going 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.280 back to the morning after the murders, the defense lays 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.560 out their story according to Nash, Jake was in the 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.880 barn destroying cell phones, burning clothes, and breaking down the 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:53.320 silencers and weapons used in the murders. There's no physical 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.560 evidence George was at any of those murder scenes. There's 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:02.280 no DNA, there's no prints, VCIU. He had no motive. 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:09.560 Outside the courtroom, Mike Allen comments, Sure, seems like it's 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.240 a strong case for the state, But you know the defense. 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.720 I don't think they'd be taken this to trial unless 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.080 they thought they had something. So it's going to be 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.960 interesting to see again two of the family members plat 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.160 out two to give people backstory. That's correct to plat out. 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.080 I think the States loaded for bear, But again, we 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.520 just don't know what the defense strategy is. It's going 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.760 to be interesting to see the defense closes by once 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:36.200 again highlighting the character differences between their client, George Wagner 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.960 the fourth and the rest of the Wagner family. The 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.200 last thing I want to tell you about is George 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:47.680 is not like his mother, his father, or as a brother. 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:52.760 He's different from them. George disagreed with the way that 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.920 his family lived their life. He disagreed with them so 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.880 much he actually engaged in physical fist fight with his father. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.720 George disliked the way that that family functioned so much 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.800 he was not part of them that as soon as 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.320 he could leave that home, as soon as he got 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.920 his driver's license when he was sixteen years old, he left. 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:19.840 He ran away. George, like most sixteen year olds, couldn't 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.800 make it at sixteen, so unfortunately he had to come 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:28.160 back home. We believe the evidence will show that George 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.280 could not have committed these mothers, and it goes further. 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:36.240 We believe the evidence will show that Jake in fact 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:40.880 killed all eight, but he had to implicate his father 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.880 in actually killing somebody. But the evidence will show that 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:48.760 Jake killed all eight. We've heard mixed things about George 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.120 over the years, but we also have heard that he 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:55.880 was just very loved and had close friendships, had very 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.120 close relationships. I go back to our interview with Chris Newcome, 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.920 who was Angela Wagner's half brother, and he grew up 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.560 very close with Jake and George, and he explained to 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:10.040 us he felt completely betrayed by George, specifically because he 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.600 considered him more like a brother than anything else, and 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.359 he couldn't possibly imagine that he would have had anything 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.600 to do with this more than any of the other 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.720 family members, And so I guess, I mean, is it 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.280 possible that George didn't do this and he's been roped 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:29.200 into this awful crime by his family who was scheming 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.320 to kind of bring him down with them. Either that 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:36.439 or he's a really good liar. This is the outline, 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.000 your bullet points. You're going to see this, this, and this. Now. 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:44.359 The prosecution obviously went much longer. They have a much bunch, 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.320 bigger case. They have all this evidence that they've been 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.320 gathering for four years, and I've been able to present anybody, 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.080 and so they just bumped it all over the jury. 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.359 Knowing what we know now about the opening statements, what 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.560 has been said, is it becoming impossible that he could 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:07.160 walk free or does that still seem completely impossible. It 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:11.920 depends on how believable the jury finds. Jake and Angela. 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.760 Is it possible that he walks free? Absolutely as possible. 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:21.080 You never can tell. The next morning, witness testimony begins. 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:26.000 First up is victim Dana Roden's sister, Bobby Joe Manley. 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:28.959 Bobby Manly and a friend found the first two victims, 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:32.280 Chris Roden Senior, and his cousin Gary. That discovery was 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.160 quickly followed by this English nine one one call, which 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:41.800 was played for the jury. Yes, yes, forty seventy seventy 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:47.919 thirty seventy seven, forty seventy seven. Okay, fot yer seven 0:18:48.080 --> 0:19:00.239 seven Emil correct, yes on the black all over the house. Right, 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.080 my brother in laws who says he looks like I 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:08.560 beat the hell out of them. Okay, because but all 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:12.680 his heart words, what's your brother in law's name? Christ warning? 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.520 Gary right? And Frank and Gary Rodan starts times in 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.280 head looks like the dad. Do you think they're both dead? 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:21.600 I think the great dead. And I phone has beak 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.400 to pop out of them. Okay. If there's anybody else 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:30.520 in the house, don't know us. Okay. So doors was awful. 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.000 We got here, but on her he was and I 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.360 went here and there letting on the floor and done. Okay, 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.880 and enough starts right now. I'm okay to stay out 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.840 of the house. Don't let anybody got in there. Okay, yeah, 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.280 all right, we don't deputing overlay. Okay, I thank you 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:51.600 your mother. I think it's always just worth mentioning. So 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.719 many listeners reach at on a regular basis giving us tips, 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.240 and we take every one of them seriously and do 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.639 our very best to go down the rabbit hole on 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.119 each of them. We've also had listeners reach out to 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.040 say they thought they heard something, for example, in the 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.800 nine one one call, was there something else in the 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:13.400 background that maybe we hadn't covered before, And we did 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:16.800 look into that, for example, and ultimately we weren't able 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.760 to hear anything that wasn't already reported. About anything that 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.760 listeners send us, we put through a very strict filter 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.680 of whether or not it's worth sharing on this platform. 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.880 We don't want to share any rumors or any mistruths 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.360 because we know how toxic that can be for the family. 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.720 But yeah, we always encourage our listeners to share and 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:39.879 interact with the show. After finding Chris Roden Senior and 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.760 Gary Roden, manly told Kneppa she and her friend checked 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.800 another trailer nearby and found the bullet riddled bodies of 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.800 Frankie Rodin and his fiance Hannah Gilly. Mercifully, a baby 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.240 boy whom Hannah Gilly was likely nursing at the time, survived, 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:59.000 as would be expected. Bobby Joe still feels the trauma 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.800 of that day last season, Jeff spoke with her niece, 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:07.320 who was very close to Hannam Rodin to me and 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:10.560 Hannah were only like six months and fourteen days apart, 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.600 So you guys were up together. Yeah, we grew up together. 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.000 We was pretty close her and my little brother was 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:20.440 close to him, and Christopher wasn't very far apart either. 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.639 When it first happened, Like, we was all really close 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.760 with each other. And after the years started going out. 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.480 The only other time we gather is like when we 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.560 want to do like a one release or a candlelighting 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.359 for another year of them being dead. I used to 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.280 hang out a lot with Bobby Joe, but like after 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:42.920 everything happened, she just like completely changed. When Bobby Joe 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:45.359 takes the stand as the first witness in the trial 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.800 of George Wagner the fourth there is no camera coverage. 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:51.879 You know, a lot of people were watching the live stream, 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:55.560 a lot of questions why was that? Why did that happen? Yeah, 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:58.080 frustrating for people watching from home, frustrating for all of 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.359 us covering the trial as well. It's because of an 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.560 order from Judge Deering here that allows witnesses to either 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:05.880 opt in or opt out. They can decide they don't 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:08.879 want to be broadcast and that's video or audio. We 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:12.199 fought it, but the judge has ruled officially before this 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:14.439 trial started that that's the way it is going to be. 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.679 Bobby Joe Manly tells her story to the jury, the 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:21.680 media furiously taking notes in lieu of the camera feed. 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:24.920 Bobby Joe, the youngest Manly sibling, was the first to 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.680 find the bodies. Chris was Dana's ex husband. Bobby Joe 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:30.840 and a friend, Billy Morgan, found a trail of blood 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:33.520 leading to the bedroom. Chris and his cousin Gary were 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:36.640 dead on the floor, covered by a comfiter. The prosecution 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:41.120 also showed the jury photos from inside the trailers of Chris, Senior, Frankie, 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:44.480 and Dana Rodin, including where the Wagner family is accused 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:50.400 of dragging Chris's body back to his bedroom. There are 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:53.760 three photos shown to the jury. The first is pointing 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.640 back from the living room towards a cracked open front door. 0:22:57.359 --> 0:22:59.840 There's a vacuum and a child's play chair in the corner. 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:04.199 On the couch or two camouflaged jackets. Kids shoes are 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:07.520 strewn about the floor. There's a stick on logo next 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:12.359 to the front door that says simply family. Another photo 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:14.639 shows what looks to be a kid's room with a crib. 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:18.040 The final photo is of a recliner in what looks 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:20.600 to be the living room. There's a one foot wide 0:23:20.640 --> 0:23:22.960 streak of blood running from the base of the chair 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:26.679 across the floor to somewhere else in the house. Anjeanette 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:28.800 Levy was in the courtroom for the first morning of 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:33.720 testimony for Bobby Joe being on the stand. I thought 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:37.400 she did a really good job recalling some really horrific 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:41.359 events in her life, getting up there and testifying to 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:44.840 these really awful things that have happened to their family 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:48.600 and finding them and all of the things that they saw. 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:51.760 Also on the stands today was a Pike County deputy 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:55.320 who responded to the scene. In fact, they got flagged 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:58.399 down by Bobby Joe outside of Frankie Rodin and Hannah 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:02.800 Hazel Gilli's house. I don't think anybody really wants to 0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:05.480 do that. When you're in public service, it's your job. 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:09.240 And this is the biggest murder case in Ohio history. 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.560 I'm so mad about this whole opting out crap, Like 0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:15.400 if these family members can get up there and talk 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:19.359 about these awful things. Is it's somebody paid by the taxpayers, 0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:21.040 you should be able to get up there too and 0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:24.000 show your face and talk about this. It's one thing 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:29.360 to be fearful, if you fear retribution. I can understand 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:33.200 being scared. In this case. I understand Bobby Joe Manley. 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:36.399 She seems like a very quiet person. I get that. 0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:41.440 When you have people in public service opting out, what 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:44.800 message does that send? It also doesn't send a good message. 0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:47.520 When this is a you know, an area that sees 0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:49.640 a lot of police corruption, or at least has seen 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:52.119 a lot of police corruption, you would think you'd want 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:53.800 to get up there and take a stand and say, 0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:55.800 you know what, this is the process, this is the 0:24:55.840 --> 0:25:00.199 accountability we can offer, and it's been done right, and 0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:02.320 we aren't going to allow this type of thing to 0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:08.080 happen in our community. Dana Roden and Bobby Joe Manley's brother, 0:25:08.240 --> 0:25:11.879 James Manly, does not opt out. His testimony gives us 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:14.240 the first word for word account of what happened that 0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:17.359 morning from the perspective of the surviving members of the 0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:22.040 Roden family. His words are few, good afternoon, How are 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:25.440 you all right? Okay, can you please state your name 0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:33.439 for the record and spell your last name? Okay? Okay, 0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:41.399 And mister Manley, how old are you? Okay? James Manly 0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:44.520 has a beard and wears a black shirt. He sits 0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:48.600 back in his chair near the wall. Manly largely answers 0:25:48.640 --> 0:25:54.560 ange Gneppa's questions with one or two word answers. I 0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:59.200 know this witness isn't showing much emotion right now here 0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:04.119 on the stand. However, I can't imagine what it would 0:26:04.119 --> 0:26:07.800