1 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: In Pike County. The first witnesses in the murder trial 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: of George Wagner the Fourth took the stand. Imagine this. 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: You go to your sister's house, to your nephew's house, 4 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: you open the door, and you find them shot to 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: death in bed. It sounds medieval almost, But George Wagner 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: the Fourth's lawyers disputed almost all of that. They also 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: pointed out that their client, despite facing eight aggravated murder charges, 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: is not believed to have killed anyone. This is the 9 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: Pikes and Massacre Returned to Pike County Season four, Episode 10 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: three con Artists and Liars. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television 11 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Lyleiedeger and Jeff Shane. 12 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: On the first day of the trial of George Wagner 13 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: the fourth, opening statements for the prosecution clocked in at 14 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: four hours. It raised some eyebrows among media and legal 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: experts for its length and amount of detail. After a 16 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: lunch break, it was time for the defense to make 17 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: their case heard. The defense attorneyal here is Richard Nash. 18 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: Is the defense ready to give an opening statement? Yes, 19 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: you didn't you do so? It's important to note that 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: George Wagner, the fourth who is currently on trial, and 21 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have pleaded 22 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: not guilty to all charges. Good afternoon, everybody. April the 23 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: twenty second of twenty sixteen. George Wagner lived on Peterson Road, 24 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: and that day started off like most days. Nash is 25 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,199 Speaker 1: in his mid forties, bald with the beard and glasses. 26 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: He wears a bright red tie. Nash jumps right into 27 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: the defense's narrative of what happened in the morning after 28 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: the murders. George knew he had one task that he 29 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: had to do that day, and that was to disassembly 30 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: a building, a wood shed, so to speak. That was 31 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: the one thing that he had to do. But before 32 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: George could take off to do that, he noticed that 33 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: Jake was off in that new barn up on that 34 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: hill on Peterson Road. Nash is alluding to a barn 35 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: that sits on a hill above where the entire Wagner 36 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: family resided at the time of the murders. At that point, 37 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: nothing seemed suspicious to George, although again it was off 38 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: that Jake was already up that day, and usually Jake 39 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: is the second to rise. While they were headed back 40 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: home to Peterson Road, Jake's cell phone went off. There 41 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: the caller was Andrew Carson. Andrew Carson said hello, Jake, 42 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: and there he had a conversation, and that's when he 43 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 1: thought he was the first to tell Jake that the 44 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: mother of his child, Hannah, had been murdered, along with 45 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: six of her relatives. Jake, according to mister Carson, put 46 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: on an act worthy of an Academy Award, an act 47 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: where he calmed Carson into thinking that he was the 48 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: first to tell him as he wept and cried on 49 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: the phone, and that is the first time George learned 50 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: about murders. It's at this point the whole world becomes 51 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: privy to the defense's main argument, George was not there 52 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: that night and didn't know about the murders until the 53 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: next day. This is the first time we're hearing about this, 54 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: let alone, at his trial. It's a pretty bold move 55 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: by the defense to say he wasn't there period. My 56 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: takeaway is that what George Wagner is attempting to do, 57 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: which is a pretty interesting strategy, is remove himself from 58 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: the culpability of even being aware that the murders were 59 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: happening and letting them happen, and it might work. I mean, 60 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: the only evidence that we know of that the prosecution 61 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: has is the shoe print. As we know, there's nothing 62 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: really tying George Wagner to the Rodent murders the night 63 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: of the murders, and this is a plausible workaround that 64 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: the defense has come up with or is possibly the truth. 65 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: We don't know if that's yet to be proven. But 66 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't that completely discount what his brother Jake Wagner is saying, 67 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: It would Steph. But what I think George Wagner is 68 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: doing is thinking about his own safety at this point. 69 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: He's not worried about what Jake's plea deal is or 70 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: what Angela's plea deal is. He's worried about himself. What 71 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: a showdown that's actually going to be when you take 72 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,239 Speaker 1: this part into account as well. So for the first time, 73 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: George Wagner is going to see his brother, Jake Wagner, 74 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: but they're also going to completely disagree on the story. 75 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: Shakespeare couldn't have written this better himself. I mean, we've 76 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: heard how close these two brothers were or for years 77 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: growing up, that they stood by each other, that they've 78 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: protected one another, and now this contradictory story is really 79 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: going to play out in court. And you know, we've 80 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: been wrong before in terms of what our theories are, 81 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: what we think, But I have a hard time wrapping 82 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: my head around the idea that George Wagner did not 83 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: know about these murders. Here's reporter Angeanette Levy. I think 84 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: it's interesting that they say that George wasn't even there, 85 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: and I guess they have to write because if he's there, 86 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: he's going down for aggravated murder, so they can't concede 87 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: that point to the state. But they've talked about in 88 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, a pre trial motion in the past that 89 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: Jake said that George went along at the last minute 90 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: because he feared that Billy might kill Jake at the 91 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: end of the night. They've quoted Jake as saying that 92 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: local journalist James Pilcher was also in the courtroom. The 93 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: defense is clearly stating that George wasn't there, that the 94 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: first he heard about the murders was the next morning, 95 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: and that Jake had gotten up before him and was 96 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: getting rid of the evidence that morning before he even 97 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: got up, and that was surprising to me that they 98 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: would play that gambit, but really really hammering on the 99 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: fact that there is absolutely not one shred of physical 100 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: evidence specifically tying George Wagner to the scene of the 101 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: crimes or that he killed anybody. So they are going 102 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: to leverage that as much as possible. As this trial 103 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: goes on. It's clear at this point that the defense 104 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: is going all in against the rest of the Wagner family. 105 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: Nash continues to separate George from his relatives. After some time, 106 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: BCI had narrowed down who they felt were suspects. In fact, 107 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: it's worthy to note that BCI had interviewed Jake Wagner 108 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: four times. BCI, conducting their investigation, also felt it was 109 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: important that they interviewed Angela Wagner. The third person that 110 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: they felt that was important to talk to in the 111 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: Wagner household was Billy Wagner. George was right there. Not 112 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: once did they ever ask to speak with George Earlier 113 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: that day. During the prosecution's opening statement, Angie kinnever revealed 114 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: that authorities kept tabs on the Wagners before their arrests, 115 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: even when they were in Alaska. When the family decided 116 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: to come back to Ohio investigators were waiting for them 117 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: at the US Canadian border. Imagine if you will, for 118 00:07:54,720 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: individuals being surprised at a Montana border, agents putting them 119 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: in separate rooms and BCI walking in and questioning them. First. 120 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: Billy gets in the vehicle, he's released first, and then 121 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: Angela gets in the vehicle. Not a word, not a 122 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: word about, Oh my gosh, can you believe that happened? 123 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: What they think we did this? No conversation like that 124 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: at all, no conversation at all about what just happened. 125 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: We find out later that there's a reason for that, 126 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: because Billy had told them, you know, be quiet. The 127 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: defense tells its side of the story. We had special 128 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: agents who had four different rooms where they spoke with 129 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: all four family members. And George had an agent there 130 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: speaking with him, special agent Hagany, and he told George, 131 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: your family has big problems. George, do you want to 132 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: be a witness or do you want to be a suspect? 133 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: Here again. James Pilcher, he was being questioned by the 134 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: BCI when they came across the border in Montana, and 135 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: he said, yeah, he had problems with his family, but 136 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: he never knew them to be violent. He couldn't believe it. 137 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: He couldn't believe they would kill somebody and needs it not. 138 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: Special Prosecutor Angie Kneppa objects, and she and defense Attorney 139 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: Nash approached the bench and huddle with Judge Deering. It 140 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: is very highly unusual that the prosecution would interrupt somebody 141 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: just five minutes into their opening statement. And at that 142 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: point they went to the bench and argued for two minutes, 143 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: and then went back in the chambers and argued for 144 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: another eight to nine minutes. And then the judge says, 145 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: you know, opening statements amount evidence. So clearly the prosecution 146 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: was trying to say he's throwing this out there and 147 00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: he doesn't have any proof for it, and he needs 148 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: to be You might continue your old day, Thank you, judge. 149 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: So back to that interview room with Special Agent Hageman, 150 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: he had just a few statements to make. Then he said, 151 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: if I don't know who did it, then you all 152 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: go down for conspiracy. And so Hageman never received any information, 153 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: and here George sits, if I don't hear who did it, 154 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: you all go down for conspiracy. This is a trial 155 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: about the state of Ohio against George Wagner. It's not 156 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: the Wagners. It's not Billy Wagner. It's not Angela Wagner, 157 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: nor is it Jake Wagner. This is all about George. 158 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: There are certain things in life that we can't control. 159 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: One of those things is our birth name. Unfortunately, George 160 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: cannot help that he's a wagoner, but that doesn't make 161 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: him a murderer. They are clearly relying on the fact 162 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: that the prosecution has burned up ruth here they can 163 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: just play defense and swat away anything or that they 164 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 1: can sit there and say, well, George didn't know anything, 165 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: and how can you prove it. George gets more animated 166 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: as his attorney speaks, making eye contact with the jury. 167 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: The media outside the courthouse is quick to comment and 168 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: what the defense has really done well out is really 169 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: try to paint George as an individual, an individual who 170 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: happened to be part of a family who had kind 171 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: of a sordid pass and a pass with corruption and 172 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: other criminal behavior. But their argument essentially is just because 173 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: his family is this way doesn't mean that he's this way, 174 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: and it certainly doesn't make him a murderer. As you 175 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: hear the evidence in this case, There's five things I 176 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: want you to pay attention to. The first is going 177 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: to be what Jake sense. Jake will tell you that 178 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: George had nothing to do with the plan of these murders. 179 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: Jake will tell you that George shot no one. Jake 180 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:21,119 Speaker 1: will tell you that George did nothing to destroy any evidence. 181 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: He is clearly pointing the finger at Jake and Angela 182 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: and Billy and that George had nothing to do with it. 183 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: So do they just change their story because now they've 184 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: seen all of the evidence and are just sort of 185 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: making a strategy switch. Yeah, I think so when I 186 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: think what they're going to do is just called the 187 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: credibility Jake and Angela, because that's what this case relies on. 188 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: The second thing that I want you to pay attention 189 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: to will be the credibility of Angela and Jake. The 190 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: third thing that I want you to pay attention to 191 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: is the incentives that were offered by the State of 192 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: Ohio for such heinous crimes to Angela and Jake to 193 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 1: get them to talk, to get them to tell a story. 194 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: This is a family of con artists, liars, indeeds. He 195 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: says that in the over and that Jake became the 196 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: vessel for all of that, and George was not like that. 197 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: George wanted to get away from them, and it's up 198 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: to the prosecution to prove otherwise. That second thing I 199 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you about is Jake and Angela, 200 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: who are con artists and liars. We've already touched on 201 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: it some, but Angela is the con artist through and through. 202 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: That's who the state has is the key witness con 203 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: artists and liars. Clearly, the defense's strategy is going to 204 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: be these people are liars. You can't believe the thing 205 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: they said. They've lied before. What makes you think they're 206 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: not lying now? The Cohn didn't stop. Then it's content 207 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: and it's who they are. They've conned the state of 208 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: Ohio into the most heinous crime, into a thirty year sentence, 209 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: in the sentence most deserving of death, he escapes with life. 210 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: The plea deal is what I'm speaking of. In order 211 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: to avoid the death penalty, they must implicate George. We're 212 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. 213 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: As Nashley's into the rest of the Wagners, George listens 214 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: with a hint of sadness on his face, going back 215 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: to the morning after the murders, the defense lays out 216 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: their story. According to Nash, Jake was in the barn 217 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: destroying cell phones, burning clothes, and breaking down the silencers 218 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: and weapons used in the murders. There's no physical evidence 219 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: George was at any of those murder scenes. There's no DNA, 220 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: there's no Prince bci knew he had no motive. Outside 221 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: the courtroom, Mike Allen comments, it sure seems like it's 222 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: a strong case for the state, But you know the defense, 223 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: I don't think they'd be taking this to trial unless 224 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: they thought they had something. So it's going to be 225 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: interesting to see again two of the family members pled 226 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: out too to give people backstory that's correct too clat out. 227 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: I think the States loaded for bear, But again, we 228 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: just don't know what the defense strategy is. It's going 229 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: to be interesting to see. The defense closes by once 230 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: again highlighting the character differences between their client, George Wagner 231 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: the fourth and the rest of the Wagner family. The 232 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: last thing I want to tell you about is George 233 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: does not like his mother, his father, or his brother. 234 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: He's different from them. George disagreed with the way that 235 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: his family lived their life. He disagreed with him so 236 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: much he actually engaged in physical fistfight with his father. 237 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: George disliked the way that that family functioned so much 238 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: he was not part of them. That as soon as 239 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: he could leave that home, as soon as he got 240 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: his driver's license when he was sixteen years old, he left. 241 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: He ran away like most sixteen year olds. Couldn't make 242 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: it at sixteen, so unfortunately he had to come back home. 243 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: We believe the evidence will show that George could not 244 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: have committed these motives, and it goes further. We believe 245 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: the evidence will show that Jake in fact killed all eight, 246 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: but he had to implicate his father in actually killing somebody. 247 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: But the evidence will show that Jake killed all eight. 248 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: We've heard mixed things about George over the years, but 249 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: we also have heard that he was just very loved 250 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: and had close friendships, had very close relationships. I go 251 00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: back to our interview with Chris Newcom, who was Angelo 252 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: Wagner's half brother, and he grew up very close with 253 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: Jake and George, and he explained to us he felt 254 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: completely betrayed by George, specifically because he considered him more 255 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: like a brother than anything else, and he couldn't possibly 256 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: imagine that he would have had anything to do with 257 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: this more than any of the other family members. And 258 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: so I guess, I mean, is it possible that George 259 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: didn't do this and he's been roped into this awful 260 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 1: crime by his family who was scheming to kind of 261 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: bring him down with them. Either that or he's a 262 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: really good liar. This is the outline, your bullet points. 263 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: You're going to see this, this, and this. Now. The 264 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: prosecution obviously went much longer. They have a much gunch, 265 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: bigger case. They have all this evidence that they've been 266 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: gathering for four years and not been able to present anybody, 267 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: and so they just bumped it all over the jury. 268 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: Knowing what we know now about the opening statements and 269 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: what has been said, is it become impossible that he 270 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: could walk free or does that still seem completely impossible? 271 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: It depends on how believable the jury finds Jake and Angelo. 272 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: Is it possible that he walks free? Absolutely as possible, 273 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: You never can't tell. The next morning, witness testimony begins. 274 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: First up is victim Dana Rhoden's sister, Bobby Joe Manley. 275 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: Bobby Manley and a friend found the first two victims, 276 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: Chris Rodin Sr. And his cousin Gary. That discovery was 277 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: quickly followed by this English nine one one call, which 278 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: was played for the jury nine one yes, yes, seven 279 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: okay for yer seven seven email rayyes gotta come here 280 00:18:55,160 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: going on. That's live all over the house saying my 281 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: brother how and I bet the hell out of them? 282 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: Okay because n all, what's your brother in law's names? 283 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: Chris Rodenstein, Gary Road and Frank and Gary rod and 284 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: start under in it looks like the dad. Do you 285 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: think they're vote? Said? I think the best, said I 286 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: don't has beat the crop out of them. Okay, is 287 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: there anybody else in the house? I don't know us? Okay, 288 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: said Dord was off got here, but I hope it's 289 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: tea and I went in and then her running on 290 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: the floor and went down the house right now, okay, 291 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: just stay out of the house a way. Anybody going 292 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: in there? Okay? Yeah, all right, we don't tak it 293 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: on the way. Okay. I thank you your mother. I 294 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: think it's always just worth mentioning. So many listeners reach 295 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: out on a regular basis giving us tips, and we 296 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: take every one of them seriously and do our very 297 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: best to go down the rabbit hole on each of them. 298 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: We've also had listeners reach out to say they thought 299 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: they heard something, for example, in the nine to one 300 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: to one call, was there something else in the background 301 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: that maybe we hadn't covered before, And we did look 302 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: into that for example, and ultimately we weren't able to 303 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: hear anything that wasn't already reported about anything that listeners 304 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: sunned us. We put through a very strict filter of 305 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: whether or not it's worth sharing on this platform. We 306 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: don't want to share any rumors or any mistruths because 307 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: we know how toxic that can be for the family. 308 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, we always encourage our listeners to share and 309 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: interact with the shop. After finding Chris Roden Senior and 310 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: Gary Roden manly told Kneppa she and her friend checked 311 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: another trailer nearby and found the bullet red old bodies 312 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: of Frankie Rodin and his fiance Hannah Gilly. Mercifully, a 313 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: baby boy whom Hannah Gilly was likely nursing at the 314 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: time survived, as would be expected. Bobby Joe still feels 315 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: the trauma of that day. Last season, Jeff spoke with 316 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: her niece, who was very close to Hannam Rodin. See 317 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: me and Hannah were only like six months and fourteen 318 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: days apart, So you guys grew up together. We grew 319 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: up together. We was pretty close her and my little 320 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: brother was close to him, and Christopher wasn't very far 321 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: apart either. When it first happened, like, we was all 322 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: really close with each other. And after the year started 323 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: going out, the only other time we gather is like 324 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: when we want to do like a release or a 325 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: candle lighting for another year of them being dead. I 326 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 1: used to hang out a lot with Bobby Joe that like, 327 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: after everything happened, she just like completely changed. When Bobby 328 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: Joe takes the stand as the first witness in the 329 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: trial of George Wagner the fourth there is no camera coverage. 330 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people were watching the live stream, 331 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: a lot of questions why was that? Why did that happen? Yeah, 332 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: frustrating for people watching from home, frustrating for all of 333 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: us covering the trial as well. It's because of an 334 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: order from Judge Deering here that allows witnesses to either 335 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: opt in or opt out. They can decide they don't 336 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: want to be broadcast and that's video or audio. We 337 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: fought it, but the judge has ruled officially before this 338 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: trial started that that's the way it is going to be. 339 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: Bobby Joe Manley tells her story to the jury, the 340 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: media furiously taking notes in lieu of the camera feed. 341 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: Bobby Joe, the youngest manly sibling, was the first to 342 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: find the bodies. Chris was Dana's ex husband. Bobby Joe 343 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: and a friend, Billy Morgan, found a trail of blood 344 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: leading to the bedroom. Chris and his cousin Gary were 345 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: dead on the floor, covered by a comforter. The prosecution 346 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: also showed the jury photos from inside the trailers of Chris, Senior, Frankie, 347 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: and Dana Rodin, including where the Wagner family is accused 348 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: of dragging Chris's body back to his bedroom. There are 349 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: three photos shown to the jury. The first is pointing 350 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: back from the living room towards a cracked open front door. 351 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: There's a vacuum and a child's play chair in the corner. 352 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: On the couch or two camouflage jackets. Kids shoes are 353 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: strewn about the floor. There's a stick on logo next 354 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: to the front door that says simply family. Another photo 355 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: shows what looks to be a kid's room with a crib. 356 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: The final photo is of a recliner in what looks 357 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: to be the living room. There's a one foot wide 358 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: streak of blood running from the base of the chair 359 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: across the floor to somewhere else in the house. Anjeanette 360 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: Levy was in the courtroom for the first morning of 361 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: testimony for Bobby Joe. Being on the stand. I thought 362 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: she did a really good job recalling some really horrific 363 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 1: events in her life, getting up there and testifying to 364 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: these really awful things that have happened to their family 365 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: and finding them and all of the things that they saw. 366 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: Also on the stand today was a Pike County deputy 367 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: who responded to the scene. In fact, they got flagged 368 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: down by Bobby Joe outside of Frankie Rodin and Hannah 369 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: Hazel Gilly's house. I don't think anybody really wants to 370 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: do that. When you're in public service, it's your job. 371 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: And this is the biggest murder case in Ohio history. 372 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: I'm so mad about this whole opting out crap, Like 373 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: if these family members can get up there and talk 374 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: about these awful things is it's somebody paid by the taxpayers, 375 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: you should be able to get up there too and 376 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: show your face and talk about this. It's one thing 377 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: to be fearful, if you fear retribution. I can understand 378 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: being scared. In this case, I understand Bobby Joe Manley. 379 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: She seems like a very quiet person. I get that. 380 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: When you have people in public service opting out, what 381 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: message does that send? It also doesn't send a good message. 382 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: When this is a an area that sees a lot 383 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,959 Speaker 1: of police corruption, or at least has seen a lot 384 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: of police corruption, you would think you'd want to get 385 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 1: up there and take a stand and say, you know what, 386 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: this is the process, this is the accountability we can offer, 387 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,239 Speaker 1: and it's been done right, and we aren't going to 388 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: allow this type of thing to happen in our community. 389 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: Dana Rodin and Bobby Joe Manley's brother, James Manley, does 390 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: not opt out. His testimony gives us the first word 391 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: for word account of what happened that morning from the 392 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: perspective of the surviving members of the Rodent family. His 393 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: words are few, good afternoon, How are you all right? Okay? 394 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: Can you please state your name for the record and 395 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: scout your last name, James Manley okay, em Ayen lu 396 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: Are okay, and mister Manley, how old are you? Okay? 397 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: James Manley has a beard and wears a black shirt. 398 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: He sits back in his chair near the wall. Many 399 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: largely answers Anjiacineppu's questions with one or two word answers. 400 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: I know this witness isn't showing much emotion right now 401 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: here on the stand. However, I can't imagine what it 402 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: would be like to come upon that crime scene and 403 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: see all of that. I think he's amazingly composed in 404 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: that he's describing probably the most horrific day of his life. 405 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,479 Speaker 1: And to ask him to go through that step by 406 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: step without breaking down, without being emotional, I think he's 407 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: doing a really good job. This prospect. I think can 408 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: do a better job helping that witness paint that awful 409 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: picture for the jury. If you have a witness that 410 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: isn't as talkative as other people might be, the onus 411 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: is on the prosecutor to then kind of get as 412 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: close to a leading question as you can get, or 413 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: as the judge might allow, because you're just not going 414 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: to get it from the witness. Let's stop here for 415 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 1: another break. Anja Kineppa coaxes more information out of James Manley, 416 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: the only son and a family of three sisters. He 417 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: uses the present tense to describe sister Kathy and the 418 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: past tense to speak about his late sister Dana Rodin. 419 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: Your white dad took off, find that jumping was wrong? 420 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: And then what did you do? My eyes jumped in 421 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: my chap and followed him up to it. And where 422 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: did you go? And Frankie has okay. When he gets there, 423 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: he finds Bobby Joe Manley distraught holding Hannah Hazel Gilly 424 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: and Frankie Roden's baby. I ask her what the hall hathic? Okay, 425 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: you asked Bobby Joe. Yep. Bobby Joe breaks the news 426 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: to her brother James about the four murders. Manley enters 427 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: Frankie and Hannah Hazel's house. Can you describe what you saw? 428 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: Blood everywhere? You said blood everywhere? Yeah, okay? And when 429 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: you say blood everywhere, can you tell us where specifically 430 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: is on the body on the bed, on the walls. 431 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: Frankie Rodin and his fiance Hannah Hazel Gilly dead in bed. 432 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: Hazel been nursing. They're month's old son at the time. 433 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: James Manly then drove to his sister Dana's house down 434 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: the road to tell her her son was dead. After 435 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: you knocked on the door and it opened, what did 436 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,360 Speaker 1: you do? Put you out her name? Then what happened? 437 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: Kept beyond her name? What dirt head jump? At this point, 438 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: Manly is showing emotion. His face is flushed as he 439 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 1: describes finding his sister Dana Roden's room is dark. He 440 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: feels along the foot of her bed and touches her foot. 441 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: He tries to wake her up. Man kept not toward her. 442 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: Hid And when you got to where you thought her 443 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: head was, what did you do? And I felt like 444 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: a pillar over her head? I started picked a pillow 445 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: up and you feel it stuck. So you started lifting 446 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: up the pillow, but you could feel that it was sticky, yeah, stuck, Yeah, okay? 447 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: And you said then you ran out of the house 448 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: or when I just turned around out okay? And why 449 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: did you do that? Like? What did you think because 450 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: figure shedd Okay? What made you think that? Because brother 451 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: pillow was stuck? Did you hear anything in the house? 452 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: He could hear his niece, Hannah may Rodin's new baby 453 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: crying in another room. He just couldn't bring himself to look. 454 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: She was dead there too, her brother Chris Junior dead 455 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: and yet another room. The final testimony of day one 456 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: is from Justin Wearing. He's one of the empty drivers 457 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: who gets to Frankie and Hannah Hazel's house shortly after 458 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: James Manley does. When he arrives, he sees kids in 459 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: the yard. There were two. There was a young child 460 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: that was probably four or five years old that was 461 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: running around in yard, and then there was an infant 462 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: child who was around six months old. And did you 463 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: notice anything unusual about the infant? The infant was covered 464 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: with blood. His viper was saturated with blood. Images of 465 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: an infant covered in the blood of his family are 466 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: difficult to comprehend for everyone in the courtroom. This is 467 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: only the beginning of a long, dark journey full of 468 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: the horrific details of what happened that night in Pike County. 469 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: We are also getting a first look at the crime 470 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: scenes in the Pie County massacre, and we want to 471 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: warn you some of the images are disturbing. We don't 472 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: really know the full scope of what the Rodent family faced. 473 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: Does the prosecution hold back any level of violence or 474 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: the gore of that or do they just put it 475 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: all out there for them to see. Can you imagine 476 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: the level of grief and despair that have to sit 477 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: there and look at these autopsy photos. One of the issues, 478 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: for instance, will be range afar. So how far was 479 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: it from the end of the muzzle to a bullet 480 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: hole in the forehead. I don't know that people can 481 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: fully fathom what went on in those moms. It's mond boggling. 482 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: More on that next time. For more information on the 483 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at KAT 484 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: Underscore Studios. The piked In Maskers produced by Stephanie Leidecker, 485 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, Scott de Graus, Andrew Arnow and 486 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ti 487 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: Music by Jared Aston. The piked In Maskers a production 488 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio and KAT Studios. For more podcasts from 489 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 490 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Please welcome Markite 491 00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: County Dogged Festival. Queen Lord, I thank you for bringing 492 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: us all together as a community. Okay, I'm all dead. 493 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: There's blood all over the house. Who could have killed 494 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: eight family members in one night? I lost my best 495 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: friends and I will never be the same because of 496 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses. The 497 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: killer left those children laying in their mother's blood. The 498 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: word that comes to mind is overkilled. Who was the 499 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: master mind? I'm telling you if a crier, I'm not 500 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: sitting in prison. One thing I learned, the smaller the town, 501 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: the baker the sacreds. Be sure to watch our upcoming documentary, 502 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: The Pike County Murders, a family Massacre, premiering on NBC 503 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on Peacock this Thanksgiving 504 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: Day weekend November twenty fourth and November twenty fifth. Please 505 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: check your local listings and our hearts are with the 506 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: Rodents and the Gilly families.