WEBVTT - This Week in Crypto: Regulations, Resignations, and Kardashians 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:05.880 This is Bloomberg Crypto Daily Bloomberg I heard podcast and 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:10.040 I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News. 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:28.479 It's Friday, October seven. It's been another busy week in 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.680 digital assets. What's the latest in the markets? Are there 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.879 any crypto CEOs left regulation? When will it happen? Unclear? 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:38.400 Here to help me break down the news is Bloomberg 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:42.000 Crypto editor Beth Williams. This market is here to stay 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:44.519 in one form or another, and that there's money to 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:47.400 be made from it. And Bloomberg reports to Alison very Sprill. 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:52.199 We have so many different regulatory bodies, different agencies that 0:00:52.320 --> 0:01:01.320 want a piece of the crypto pie. Allison. So good 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:03.560 to have you back on the show. So as usual, 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:07.600 it's busy story, pretty much the story of our lives. 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.200 You know. We we wake up, we record podcasts, we 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.960 firefight whatever is happening in markets. We we write some stories, 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:15.920 we do some stuff. Beth, what has been going on? 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.360 Because I feel like in preparing for this episode, trying 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.160 to read everything that we published and I gave up 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:25.080 because it was too much stuff. Of course, Well, we 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:29.080 are still in the midst of crypto winter quote unquote, 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:32.720 which I describe as there was a big steep decline 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:34.640 in prices that we saw earlier in this year as 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:36.959 the Fed was raising rates, and then we saw these 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:42.039 follow on effects of several crises hitting between Terra three 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:46.000 arrows Hedge Fund collapsing, Celsius bankruptcy, and now we're at 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.520 the point where the market is sort of bottomed out, 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:54.000 sort of treading water, yes, treading water, and meantime we're 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:58.840 seeing these bankruptcies play out and liquidations. We haven't seen 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.560 any further damage in terms of contagion. We're keeping an 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:05.640 eye out on it, and kind of in a funny note, 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.160 even though the market is sort of treading water, we've 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.760 sort of prepared ourselves for a next leg down if 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:15.440 there is a next leg down in a particularly Bitcoin, 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.800 which is the big cahuna of crypto, but it hasn't happened. 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:22.639 So there's a growing sense that perhaps we've reached a bottom, 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:27.280 that the shakeout has happened, and so we've seen Bitcoin 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.920 again the main crypto that that people really focus on, 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.640 kind of center around this twenty thousand dollar level. It 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:38.959 also at times it had been highly correlated with risk assets, 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.600 particularly tech stocks. We've seen that break apart a little 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.520 bit cut it seemed to go its own way again. 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.519 Some of the gyrations that the stock market has been 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.520 through in recent weeks, you could argue the crypto market 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:57.280 had already done in June, July, etcetera. So we're kind 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.480 of at this stage where we're sort of watching the 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:03.919 effect of earlier this year sort of play out to 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.920 sort of the next level, as it were. The absence 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.960 of retail, the absence of the individual investor, is what's 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:15.520 sort of keeping the market from rebounding. Perhaps it's hit 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:19.120 the bottom, but it's not necessarily rebounding at this point. 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.519 You know. We were talking to one of our other 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:28.919 editors earlier before we recorded this episode, Philip Lagerkranzo, who 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:30.960 of course has been on the show, and he was 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.840 making kind of a football analogy, and I used football 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.600 in the appropriate non American sense of I suppose you'll 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.760 call it socker, where the idea is that you know, 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:42.920 it's crypto has been like a game of two halves 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:44.480 this year, where in the first half of the year 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.520 it was like up down whatever, chaos, and then the 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.960 second half the year has just been like it's just 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:56.880 the occasional breakout, but not a lot of really intense folatilty. 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.640 What I'm hearing from you is what we are starting 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:02.840 to say is that if there is a breakout, it 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.840 will be to the upside of twenty thousand rather than blue. 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.120 It seems that way. I think just nineteen and a 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.920 half was the where it hit, and maybe July it 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.000 gets down to that level and it seems to to 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.800 find some support. There don't seem to be any major 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.000 systemic for lack of a better word, further clouds on 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.360 the horizon. Of course, you know, never say never and 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:28.880 that kind of stuff. That's the worst thing I could 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.360 possibly say, I bet. But another interesting thing that I'm 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.599 that I'm noticing during this period, after this bit of upheaval, 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.960 there's been a bit of turnover in the upper management 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.480 across a lot of major crypto firms for a lot 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:44.440 of different reasons. And I was looking back at our 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.280 headlines since I don't know, since the summer or so, 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:52.880 and there have been at least two dozen moves, either 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:58.400 upper management leaving or someone coming onto a firm. That's 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.680 a bit of movement in the echelons of firms. From 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:05.800 f t X, which is the big crypto exchange to Celsius, 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:09.839 which is bankrupt and kind of going through a reorganization, 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:13.120 so perhaps not surprising there and also has some some 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:17.120 legal clouds over it, to something like a crack In, 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:21.840 which is another exchange where a founder has stepped aside 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:26.240 and are letting in other types of management. Perhaps if 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:30.000 the market is going higher from here, if the market 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.480 is going to gain more mainstream adoption, does it require 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.800 new leadership, does it require a different kind of management, 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:41.680 does it require more governance? And so you may be 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:46.120 seeing just a reorientation knowing that the crypto market maybe 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.320 going into a new phase of its maturity or if 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:53.919 it's evolution. The other big backdrop there is regulation. With 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.880 all the turmoil that happened and great loss to individual investors, 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:02.279 really bringing home that sster protections are sorely lacking in crypto. 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:07.160 There's definitely been a sense that the regulation is something 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:12.600 that has to be figured out. One of the things 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:19.000 that I am finding slightly shall we say, wacky about 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:21.800 regulation in the US right now is we have all 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.080 of these issues that Beth you've just described, you know, 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.479 significant losses to individual investors and you know, retail traders 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:35.120 in particular, you have fairly serious allegations of mismanagement to 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:39.840 criminality at different types of entities, you know, funds, companies, etcetera. 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:44.200 You have multiple people in the field kind of clamoring 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:49.360 for clarity around the next steps for regulation, and then 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:54.200 you have Kim Kardashian. And I'm like, of all of 0:06:54.240 --> 0:07:01.120 the regulatory priorities in the world, why is finding Kim 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:04.679 Kardashian one point to six million dollars at the top 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:09.440 of anyone's list. Listen, I'm gonna ask you that question. So, 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:14.880 in talking with attorneys and former regulators, I mean, this 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.600 kind of case is, you know, probably on the on 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.200 the SEC's list for a number of reasons. Right, It's 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.800 relatively a slam dunk. It was kind of an easy 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:26.960 case of you know, you touted this particular token and 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.800 you didn't disclose that you were paid for that promotion. 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.040 We've seen the SEC go after other celebrities like boxer 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:40.120 Floyd Mayweather and music producer DJ khaled Um. So it's 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:44.640 well known that this is the SEC stands, and you 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:46.680 know what they win here is that this is a 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.960 very big name. Pretty much, I think everyone pretty much 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:54.000 knows who Kim Kardashian is they also are loving by 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.640 far the largest fine we've seen, you know, almost one 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.080 point three million dollars from from the folks die talk to. 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.800 It's basically just sending a message, right, you know, we've 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:05.560 given you fair warning that you can't do this. Now 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.600 we're showing you that we aren't afraid to love you 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:11.440 these even larger fines on you, so, you know, kind 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:13.640 of knock it off. And and the reason we're probably 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.280 seeing cases like this and maybe not some other cases 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:21.440 against say exchanges where the sec has consistently said that 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.480 a lot of these exchanges are you know, listing securities 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.080 and so that they need to be registered with the agency. 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.120 I think we are not seeing really as many of 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.720 those cases because those are more difficult to prove, especially 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.440 if you have a lot of high power attorneys sort 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:40.480 of arguing against each individual token and saying these are 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.280 the reasons we don't think it's a security. So I 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.679 think that's why we're seeing this kind of case come out. Well, 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.800 to your points, all fair and legitimate points, I will concede, 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.760 we're seeing this kind of case come out. But what 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.920 we're not seeing is policy, right, We're seeing kind of 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:01.319 enforcement of policies that all exist, whether the sec will 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.280 already exist. So in this case, there is a Securities 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.360 Act that says, if you tell something that looks like 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.320 a security that we've defined as a security, not only 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.640 do you have to disclose that you are doing some telting, 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:14.720 that you're getting kind of material compensation for this, but 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:16.360 you're supposed to go into kind of the level of 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.920 detail that hashtag ad does not quite fly by in 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:22.960 terms of things that you're putting on you on your Instagram. 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:27.240 But we're not seeing significant movements in legislation. We're not 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:31.240 seeing significant movement as you've reported on this podcast and 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.120 in other places in you know, like the issues relates 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.880 to the executive order of different agencies kind of coming 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:38.760 out and saying, Okay, this is specifically what we're going 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:40.960 to be looking at. Here is concrete next steps. What 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:45.400 is causing this relative lack of inaction on the policy 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:49.320 and legislation inside of the House. So there are several 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.520 things that play on the agency side. We have so 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:57.199 many different regulatory bodies, different agencies that want a piece 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.600 of the crypto PI and it's not necessarily clear you 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:05.160 know which assets fall under which agencies jurisdiction. I think 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.200 stable coins are a good example of this. You know, 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.320 the SEC has previously said that in some cases stable 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:15.319 coins might be securities. The Commodities Features Trading Commission has 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.320 said that sometimes they might be commodities. And then we 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.880 know the banking regulators are interested in them. So, you know, 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.719 I think I think it's just the fact that so 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:26.839 many people want to be involved, so many people may 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.600 have jurisdiction. And then on the legislative front, I think 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.240 we're just seeing, uh, what we know has been an 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.040 issue over the last several years. Right Congress is getting 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:40.160 more partisan. It's harder to pass big pieces of legislation. 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:44.439 This year, in particular, we have the upcoming midterm elections, 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:46.840 so kind of there's a point in Congress where everyone 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.960 shifts focus and shifts it away from from policy to 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.040 you know, getting re elected. So a lot of different 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.440 things at play. And then also on the legislative front, 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:59.640 there are still some substantive issues that you know, these 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.240 different committees have to hash out. For instance, on the 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.440 stable coin bill, I've talked to folks who have said, 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.079 you know, there's still a question of how much overrule 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.680 state regulators should be able to play in overseeing stable coins. 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:16.720 There's some disagreement about whether non banks should be able 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:20.920 to get access to federals or master accounts. So these 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:25.080 are you know, they're not necessarily easy issues to pass through, 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.440 and now we have a very limited time left on 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:32.160 the congressional calendar to get through those issues. So it's 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:33.960 starting to look less and less likely that we'll see 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.760 something this year, though people are still pretty optimistic for 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.880 next year on the legislative front. We'll be right back 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.240 with more of the week's top crypto stories with Bloomberg 0:11:43.280 --> 0:12:05.280 reportor Alison Versprol and Bloomberg editor Beth Williams. At the 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:10.960 beginning of which was kind of what I started. Yes, 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.120 it feels like a lifetime, but at the beginning of 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:16.439 twenty I mean, I remember there was so much optimism 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:18.839 that is going to be the year of regulation, the 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.320 year of legislation, and you know, here we are in 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:26.840 October and we still haven't really seen all that much progress. 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.240 So I think the fact that we've actually started to 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.200 see some pretty substantive proposals, the fact that there is 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.560 some bipartisan interest, I can see some of the reasons 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:40.160 for optimism. But I think We'll have to see how 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:42.120 things go, and it will also depend on how the 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.280 midterm election shape up and what the makeup of Congresses 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.760 next year. You know, do we have a Republican Congress 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:51.480 and a Democratic president and what does that mean? They 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:53.440 think some of the losses we've seen this year did 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:57.120 create some urgency the stable Coin bill. Again, I mean, 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:58.760 I guess I'll point out that that bill has not 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.640 even been released, it's still being drafted. Um, we've seen 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.440 some draft floating around, but there was some additional urgency 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:10.400 after you know, terra USD collapsed. I do think, unfortunately, 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:14.199 the further we get from that incident, the less it's 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.640 on people's minds, and maybe it stops being as much 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.079 of a driver for legislation. You know, I've talked to 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:21.760 folks who have worked in this area for a long 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:25.400 time that we're that are essentially you know, it kind 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.360 of takes a crisis for for Congress to act quickly. So, 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:32.960 you know, do we need another Tara situation before this 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:37.640 becomes a serious consideration? And of course you also have 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:39.760 a Congress that in additions of thinking about mid terms, 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.120 just thinking about oh, I don't know, nuclear war. So 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:47.840 the list of priorities ahead of crypto at this moment 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.360 seems seems quite long and quite important from a global 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.079 death perspective, I would say, right. And I think there 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.719 are some too who say, you know, look, the banking sector, 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:03.120 the traditional financials actors haven't gotten that involved in crypto yet, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.520 so there's been a limited amount of contagion into those industries. 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.040 Which you can be sure if there was kind of 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.320 a knock on effect to traditional finance and it was 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.760 having a big broad effect on the economy, that people 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.520 would be a little bit more concerned about it. But 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:20.720 we're not necessarily seeing that yet. But some people are concerned. 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:22.680 You've been reporting to the f s C, which I'm 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:24.240 gonna ask you to explain because I can never remember 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:28.840 that acronymics for um has expressed some concern abouts contagient 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:33.160 and stability risks. Yes, so the Financial Stability Oversight Council, 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.240 which is led by the Treasury Department, they did put 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.280 out a report this week and they did talk about 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.680 the potential financial risks, but they mentioned, you know, like 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:45.960 this becomes more of a risk the more that banks 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.760 and some of these other traditional players get involved, kind 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.200 of the more consumers are exposed to this, so you know, 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.800 it's something to keep an eye out for going forward, 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:56.920 and it could become a big problem down the road. 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.280 And so to that effect, they talked a little bit 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.120 about the risk of this report, and then they also 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.760 offered some recommendations for legislation that they would like to 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:10.520 see Congress act on. And that's just kind of like 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:15.400 throwing back to you. You know, we've got potential ongoing 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:22.040 consumer crisis and crypto we have this increasingly stressed macroeconomic environments. 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.360 Like you know, the R word for recession is being 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:28.720 thrown around a lot. Is that affecting anybody's optimism about 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:30.360 you know, as you as you called it like the 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.720 big Huna of crypto bitcoin, but more broadly about where 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:38.680 the market might go. I think that macroeconomically, if you're 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:42.480 talking about sort of the slashing around of liquidity, the 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:47.480 very ultra ultra low rate environment, even the COVID relief 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:49.880 that came out, there was just a lot of of 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.600 money that people had to spend. There was excitement around 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:58.040 crypto rates were really low again for a lot of people. 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.280 It was sort of a fun experiment. This has taken 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:06.080 that part of the market out the rising rates, other 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:11.280 risk markets down and now things becoming more expensive. Inflation 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.600 is out there. I do think that there is a 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:20.080 damper put on the general enthusiasm around this market. But 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:22.760 I also think at the same time that you know, 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.800 we keep reporting, you know, week after week, there's a 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.600 steady drum beast of institutions and banks that are getting 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:35.120 involved in small ways at first custody or through derivatives 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.040 rather than you know, the actual coins, and I think 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:44.200 that's something to watch. I do think that there's a 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:46.840 sense among the you know, what you would call trad five, 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.880 which is the traditional finance, that this market is here 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.400 to stay in one form or another, and that there's 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.520 money to be made from it. And that's where you 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.720 may see the beginnings of a true reco coovery. And then, 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.280 you know, retail can be fickle. Those customers will come 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.840 back to, but a market that used to be dependent 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.760 very much so on retail, maybe the recovery this time 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.640 will not come from the individual, will come from these 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.440 institutions actually coming on board. And again regulation will have 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.080 to play a part in that. The great institutional wave 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:25.399 that people have been talking about. Another thing we'll just 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.960 have to see, Well, you know. Thank you very much 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:29.960 to you both. It's always a pleasure to have you 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:31.440 on the show. I'm sure I'll have you both back 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.840 and good luck with all the things, including Kardashians, So 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.640 thanks for having us. Take care. You can find more 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.199 of their reporting on the Bloomberg terminal, on Bloomberg dot 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.680 com or on Twitter. Beth is at b Willie Lou 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.960 that's b w I l l I l I O U, 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.440 and Allison is at Ali ver Sprill that's e L 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.560 L y V E R s p R I L 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:05.560 l E. On the next episode of Bloomberg Crypto. It 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.639 used to be all of say a year ago, that 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:10.480 if you worked on Wall Street and we're looking for 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:12.879 a change, then a crypto startup was the go to 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.320 place to head over to. Now, as prices fall and 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:20.240 sentiment declines right along with those prices, these buzzy crypto 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:24.320 companies are laying off staff, including those new hires. And 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:26.960 what are those staffers doing heading right back to where 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:32.760 they came from? Wall Street. This is Bloomberg Crypto, a 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.240 daily podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.960 shows from i Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:43.280 Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Send us 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:46.159 your comments, questions, or suggestions for the show to Crypto 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.360 at Bloomberg dot net or find us on Twitter. We're 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:55.320 at Crypto. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergalina. 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.560 Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producer is Sharon Burriro. 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.320 Associate producer is Ty Butler. Desta wonder At is our engineer. 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:09.320 Original music by Leo Sidrn. I'm Stacy, Marie Ishmael. Have 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:10.119 a great weekend.