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Speaker 1: Bloomberg, Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: This is a really important conversation. I did a chart

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Speaker 2: years and years ago in the Bloomberg which was the

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Speaker 2: decline of manufacturing employment in America, and there's ebbs and

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Speaker 2: flows to it, but if you run it on a

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Speaker 2: log axis, Frankly, folks, it's a really smooth, just technological

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Speaker 2: driven decline and employment is the population of manufacturing in America.

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Speaker 2: Jay Timmins is the CEO of the Group for Manufacturers

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Speaker 2: and National Association for Manufacturers.

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Speaker 3: As we mentioned, he's out.

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Speaker 2: Of the Ohio state, done a lot of work for

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Speaker 2: various political types of North Carolina's driving the voice of manufacturers.

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Speaker 1: What's the number one thing Jay?

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Speaker 2: The President gets wrong about manufacturing in America. All the

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Speaker 2: stereotypes that are out there, what's President Trump most get wrong?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 4: I think that what a lot of Americans get wrong

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Speaker 4: is that manufacturing is a very modern, technology driven operation.

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Speaker 1: And it's not.

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Speaker 4: It is not the manufacturing that you might think about

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Speaker 4: from your father or grandfather's days. This is something that

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Speaker 4: has a different type of skill set that's required. And

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Speaker 4: so manufacturers right now are investing a lot in training

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Speaker 4: that next generation of the manufacturing workforce.

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Speaker 3: I saw a chart yesterday.

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Speaker 2: This showed the complete lockey in this philosophy, folks of

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Speaker 2: individualistic America, the complete failure of America to retrain the

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Speaker 2: workforce after the last forty years.

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Speaker 3: Lightheiser, among others, has been great on this.

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Speaker 2: How in God's name do we start acting like Europe

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Speaker 2: and actually retrain manufacturing types put out of work.

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Speaker 4: So let's not act like Europe completely when it comes

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Speaker 4: to manufacturing. But I agree with you that they have

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Speaker 4: some really good apprenticeship programs, and we we're pretty proud

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Speaker 4: of our apprenticeship work that we do at the National

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Speaker 4: Association of Manufacturers through the formerly known as the Toyota

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Speaker 4: Fame program, So we were spreading that across the country.

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Speaker 1: I think what we really need to.

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Speaker 4: Focus on, though, if we truly want to grow manufacturing

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Speaker 4: investment here in the United States, we've got to make

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Speaker 4: things less expensive here in this country. So by that

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Speaker 4: I mean our tax policy. Twenty seventeen. Those tax reforms,

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Speaker 4: they were, as President Trump said, rocket fuel for manufacturing investment, hiring,

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Speaker 4: wage growth in our industry. Those things are expiring, and

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Speaker 4: we need to get those We need to get those

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Speaker 4: renewed and so we're waiting for Congress to do that.

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Speaker 1: The regulatory burden is another.

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Speaker 4: Big cost driver, about fifty thousand dollars per employee per

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Speaker 4: year in compliance costs for manufacturing.

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Speaker 2: Would we need to do credits like LBJ a million

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Speaker 2: years ago, just do direct credits to manufacturing?

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Speaker 4: I think well, I think tax policy is actually that

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Speaker 4: would help drive that investment. Right, So if you have

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Speaker 4: lower tax rates and you're able to compete against the

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Speaker 4: rest of the world's that's really where I think we

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Speaker 4: want to We want.

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Speaker 5: To say, at what time what types of manufacturing jobs

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Speaker 5: do we really want to bring back to the US.

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Speaker 5: We want to bring textile mills back to the US.

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Speaker 1: What do we want to bring back?

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Speaker 4: So I do think that the narrative that manufacturing the

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Speaker 4: manufacturing workforces is in decline is actually a false narrative

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Speaker 4: we've had. We're right now at about thirteen approaching fourteen

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Speaker 4: million manufacturing employees. That's been pretty stable for the list.

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Speaker 3: Stable in the last six seven, eight years.

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Speaker 1: Yeh, to give you that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but we want to grow it, right, We want

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Speaker 4: to grow that here.

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Speaker 1: And so those jobs, and I appreciate the question, those.

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Speaker 4: Jobs are really very, very different than in the past,

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Speaker 4: so highly highly technical job. So we want people to

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Speaker 4: be trained with a very different set of skills than

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Speaker 4: perhaps even five ten years ago.

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Speaker 1: Right, And so to your very first question, that falls.

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Speaker 4: On manufacturers to invest.

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Speaker 1: In training their workforce.

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Speaker 4: And I'm pretty proud of what we are doing in

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Speaker 4: the sector right now to accomplish exactly that. So we need,

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Speaker 4: but we need those economic policies that help facilitate that.

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Speaker 5: So it seems like, you know, a lot of folks

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Speaker 5: are now questioning the value of a college education, and

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Speaker 5: a lot of folks.

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Speaker 1: Are saying, poy trades are really you know, talk to

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Speaker 1: us about trades school. Is so lucky to have an

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Speaker 1: Ohio state person here, come on, talk to us about

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Speaker 1: the trade schools are.

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Speaker 4: They're becoming extraordinarily important in the manufacturing sector. But I

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Speaker 4: also want to say that we have something for everyone

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Speaker 4: in manufacturing. You know, probably about forty five percent of

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Speaker 4: the jobs in manufacturing require nothing more than a college's

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Speaker 4: part of me a.

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Speaker 1: High school degree.

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Speaker 4: But there are positions that are that require a four

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Speaker 4: year degree or technical training, even advanced degrees all across

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Speaker 4: the time.

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Speaker 3: I want to go to the polical motion and I'm

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Speaker 3: going to double barrel here.

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Speaker 2: The Financial Times, I'm sorry, I can't set the author

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Speaker 2: as one of their great newsletters, had that.

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Speaker 3: Wonderful survey three four days ago.

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Speaker 2: Everybody wants to bring Jay Timman's world back to America

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Speaker 2: more manufacturing jobs. But a huge body of Americans don't

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Speaker 2: want to work in manufacturing. There's a poll spoke volumes.

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Speaker 2: But the videos that have gone viral, which is fat

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Speaker 2: people like me sitting in a machine doing mundane factory work.

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Speaker 2: That's the stereotype Paul was just talking about.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the fear is you got some four.

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Speaker 2: Hundred, six hundred eight hundred people outside Hong Kong doing

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Speaker 2: make work. Do we want to bring those jobs back here?

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Speaker 4: So I want to grow the types of jobs we

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Speaker 4: have here in this country. And I know it sounds

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Speaker 4: kind of tried to say, but I love opening up

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Speaker 4: the doors to manufacturing facilities for young people.

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Speaker 1: My daughter Ellie is traveling with me this week.

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Speaker 4: It's her spring break, and we've been able to go

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Speaker 4: into a couple of plant floors and I think her

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Speaker 4: eyes were opened about the possibilities in manufacturing.

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Speaker 1: Those jobs are pretty exciting. They change constantly, and they

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Speaker 1: provide really a lifelong and presently.

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Speaker 3: By an advance that with all his legislation.

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Speaker 4: I think that the Chips and Science Act was very

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Speaker 4: important for this country. I think that the investments that

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Speaker 4: we made in infrastructure were very important for this country.

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Speaker 1: And in the.

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Speaker 4: IRA Bill that was passed, there were some policy provisions

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Speaker 4: that we thought were very important as well. So look,

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Speaker 4: I mean manufacturing changes, and I'm not going to sit

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Speaker 4: here and say that you know it's manufacturing is a

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Speaker 4: Republican industry or a Democratic industry. It's an American industry.

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Speaker 4: And when manufacturing co see's been in.

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Speaker 2: The trenches of the Capitol. I mean what you just

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Speaker 2: said is that app that Republics and Democrats are on

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Speaker 2: the same page.

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Speaker 4: I think every single person I talked to, I don't

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Speaker 4: care if they are Republican or Democrat. They want to

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Speaker 4: see manufacturing succeed.

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Speaker 1: Now have you seen.

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Speaker 3: People that went to the University of Michigan.

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Speaker 1: That's still out for debate.

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Speaker 4: But listen, I understand that there are different philosophies on

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Speaker 4: how to accomplish that, but I can tell you from

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Speaker 4: what I when I talk to manufacturing leaders, what they

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Speaker 4: say is reduce the cost of doing business here in

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Speaker 4: the United States, and we will flourish. And when either

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Speaker 4: side or both sides focus on that, that is exactly

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Speaker 4: what we'll see in this country.

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Speaker 5: The cost of production, the cost of manufacturing in the US.

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Speaker 5: My understanding from sixty years on this planet in business

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Speaker 5: education is that it's higher here, materially higher here than

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Speaker 5: the rest of the world. That's why the jobs went

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Speaker 5: to other places around the world. Can the US compete

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Speaker 5: on a cost basis manufacturing wise?

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Speaker 1: You think yes, And they can't do that.

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Speaker 4: And listen, some people will say, oh, well, the cost

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Speaker 4: of labor. You know what, don't give me that. I

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Speaker 4: want to pay our people more. I want our people

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Speaker 4: in this country to be paid more. If we're going

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Speaker 4: to do that, that means that we've got a lower

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Speaker 4: cost that we actually have control over. And I sound

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Speaker 4: like a broken record, but I'm going to go back

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Speaker 4: to tax reform twenty seventeen. Those reforms were rocket fuel.

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Speaker 4: And now we have members of Congress.

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Speaker 1: Saying, well, maybe we don't have to do.

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Speaker 4: Quite as much as we did before. Maybe we can

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Speaker 4: raise taxes on small businesses. No, that's not going to work.

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Speaker 4: As just not going to work.

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Speaker 1: What type of jobs.

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Speaker 5: What types of manufacturing would you like to see in

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Speaker 5: the US that maybe we're not doing right now?

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Speaker 1: Actually we're doing almost everything.

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Speaker 5: I just want to do an iPhone here, wells we

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Speaker 5: have in China.

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Speaker 4: I believe that those are the types of jobs that

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Speaker 4: you'll see coming here with the right policies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you.

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Speaker 1: Respond technology production?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in the.

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Speaker 2: Last couple of days, they've reducted the Trump are no

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Speaker 2: visit to Texas to try to make handbags for Louis

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Speaker 2: Vuitton whatever leather projects as well. How do you respond

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Speaker 2: to the stereotype Americans can't do the fine work that

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Speaker 2: we get out of Asian manufacturing and employment.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you one example.

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Speaker 3: Gretch, now owned.

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Speaker 2: By Fender, makes white Falcon guitars in Japan.

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Speaker 3: They're exquisite.

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Speaker 2: Nothing was ever made like that out of Michigan years ago.

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Speaker 2: How do you respond to the fact Americans can't do

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Speaker 2: the fine manufacturing work of Asia.

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe we should do that in Ohio, but.

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Speaker 3: It's a big part of Ohio, right.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm just listen.

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Speaker 4: I think Americans can rise to the challenge of literally

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Speaker 4: anything in the terms of manufacturing. But I do have

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Speaker 4: to say this, we can't do everything here in the

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Speaker 4: United States much as we would like to, but we

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Speaker 4: can do a whole lot more. Right now, we have

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Speaker 4: five hundred thousand open jobs in manufacturing, and to your point,

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Speaker 4: are people really inspired to go into manufacturing? That is

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Speaker 4: the job of our Manufacturing Institute to make sure young

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Speaker 4: people see.

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Speaker 3: Pay is a solution there.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Pay is the highest in any sector of the economy.

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Speaker 3: Okay, right, the average pay.

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Speaker 2: I must ask, how do you respond to job loss

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Speaker 2: in Windsor, Ontario and job loss in Michigan and manufacturing auto?

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is nuts.

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Speaker 4: Some of that some of that is going south right

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Speaker 4: where there are lower costs of doing business, and some

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Speaker 4: of that is demand, and some of that is additional

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Speaker 4: potential costs like tariff policy that could have a negative

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Speaker 4: impact on our ability to be productive here in this

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Speaker 4: country to lower the cost of production.

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Speaker 5: We're hearing, you know, the whole discussion of tariffs are

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Speaker 5: creating a lot of uncertainty in the marketplace. Are you

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Speaker 5: hearing that from the manufacturers you talk to every single day? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I love times.

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Speaker 5: So are they just are they pulling back on capital investments?

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Speaker 4: I think that they are very to be very blunt

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Speaker 4: about it. I think manufacturers are very concerned. They want

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Speaker 4: to see progress. The President has given himself ninety days.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what that's down to now, about eighty

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Speaker 4: probably left to negotiate deals from around the world, and

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Speaker 4: we are very hopeful that we're going to see some

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Speaker 4: policies that are zero for zero tariffs. I understand the

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Speaker 4: Italian Prime Minister is proposing exactly that right now for

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Speaker 4: the EU.

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Speaker 1: But we also have a couple other issues.

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Speaker 4: We've got critical minerals, critical inputs like critical minerals or

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Speaker 4: machines for machinery for shop floors, chemicals that we can't

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Speaker 4: do here right now. We've got to figure out a

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Speaker 4: way to bring those into these discussions as well.

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Speaker 2: By the way, is there bipartisan support to fix a

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Speaker 2: pharmaceuticals are made in China or Europe or rare minerals

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Speaker 2: have been co opted by China.

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Speaker 3: I don't see the bipartisan support.

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Speaker 4: Well, what I hear is we want to make sure

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Speaker 4: that our supply chain is strong and is kind of unbreakable.

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Speaker 4: If you think back to COVID, our supply chain was

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Speaker 4: broken and so we weren't able to access things like Ppe.

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Speaker 1: We were as an organization.

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Speaker 4: We were calling the entire world to get Ppe here

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Speaker 4: to New York.

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Speaker 3: At least put up your back.

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Speaker 2: I want you.

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Speaker 1: We got to go.

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Speaker 3: But Jo, this is a manufacturing at your best. This

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Speaker 3: is an.

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Speaker 2: Anthony Volpi American made torpedo bat.

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Speaker 1: Yankees.

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Speaker 2: That is a fine American manufacturing.

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Speaker 1: The exactly right.

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Speaker 5: Let's for the great American game baseball.

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Speaker 1: There you go, Yeah, let's hit it out of the park.

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Speaker 3: You're going to hit it out of the park and

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Speaker 3: as the Yankees did last night. Jake Timmins, thank you

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Speaker 3: so

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Speaker 2: Much, Chief CEO and President of National Association of Manufacturers,