1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you should know from House Stuff 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck Bryant. There's Jerry, puzzling 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: us as always with their jibber jabber, Wait jars. That 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: was funny. Should we say what happened? No? No? I 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: used to be leieve it mysterious al right, like whether 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: Jerry exists or not? Oh, she exists. You know a 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: lot of people out there and not convinced. Yeah. Still 9 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: even though she's we've shown pictures of her with her 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: face blurred, could be a workaday actress. She's appeared at 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: scores of live events and met people in person, same 12 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: actress but with like a gig. And she even spoke 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: on our Guatemala episodes. That was Stanley Kubrick's doing. How 14 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: are you sir? Good? Good? I'm excited about this one. 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: This is Nieto. Are you a Kins selection? I thought 16 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: it was you know me, like any you bring up 17 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: the name Charles Darwin and you just see my face 18 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: light up. Yeah, so you know that? Um that How 19 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: Stuff Works trivia event that you and longer hosted. You 20 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: guys had some hard questions, but one that my team 21 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: got right. It was a sixth part question, yes, and 22 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: there was a couple of tough ones in there, but 23 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: it was Charles Darwin or Chuck D from Public Enemy 24 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: Charles D or Chuck D. And then we named off 25 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: five or six things. I think it was six, and 26 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: it was basically, who was it Charles D or Chuck D? Yeah, like, 27 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: who's the peskytarian? You don't know? Well we did. It 28 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: was Chuck D who married his first cousin, Charles Darwin. 29 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: That one I definitely knew, because I remember Darwin was 30 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: kind of anxious as he was learning about evolution and 31 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 1: natural selection in genetics that he had married his first cousin. 32 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: He started to get kind of worried about his kid. Yeah, 33 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: he said, should I marry her? And then he said 34 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 1: it was Jennifer Connelly. She's beautiful. Where did you pull 35 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: that one from? Well? She played Darwin's wife in the 36 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: Darwin movie. Oh, well that makes a lot more sense. 37 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,839 Speaker 1: Had I known that, I would have been like, great reference. Sorry, man, 38 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: he's like, I gotta marry her? Did you see her? 39 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: And uh? Who played Darwin? Paul Bettanya, Well, he was 40 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: her husband already were they married. I don't know if 41 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: they are not anymore, but they were for a while. Okay, 42 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: whatever became of him, he was great and he's around good. 43 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: Nobody's treading the bowlds. Oh yeah, I'll but he is too. 44 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: It sounds like something do Uh. I didn't even get 45 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: to say that Jennifer Connelly movie. I was gonna say proof. Nah, 46 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: let's just move on. What was it? I can't think 47 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: of the name of it. The Darren Aronofsky. Uh oh, 48 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: Requiem for a Dream Yeah. Yeah, it's like I gotta 49 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: marry here. Did you see her in recrect for a 50 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: dream Man? That was a That was a crazy movie, 51 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: great movie, but not for the faint of heart. No, no, 52 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: so Chuck. We've got a whole evolution suite going on here, 53 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: and this contributes to evolution natural selection. We've covered Charles Darwin, 54 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: the man himself, that's right. Um, we've done evolved in 55 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: isolation to put together an extinction. Yes, bam, that's probably 56 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: all of them. But um, this one's kind of like 57 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: a nuanced version of it of the evolution suite, of 58 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: the idea of evolution, but it actually is a fulcrum 59 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: or lever something on which a buttress the the the 60 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: whole idea of evolution and natural selection and what drives 61 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: it or if it's even real kind of swings. It's 62 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: easy to overlook, but there's a real problem. Like Darwin 63 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: had all this great stuff laid out with his theory 64 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: of evolution by natural selection, and um, it basically goes 65 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: as everybody knows, a little something like this A one 66 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: and to do so, I wish we had a natural 67 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: selection song we could play boom uh. Well, it goes 68 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: like this. Animals need to reproduce for the species to survive, 69 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: and it's hard sometimes for little eggs to survive harsh 70 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: environments and seeds and things. So they make lots and 71 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: lots of them. That's right, that's part one. And they 72 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: make lots and lots of them because a lot of 73 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: them don't survive. Like you said, um, but a lot 74 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: of these things that try to reproduce don't have the 75 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: good genes, right, so they fail to reproduce. They've got 76 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: tough skins, not Levi's, so they're right, So the tough 77 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: skins tend to die out right. Instead, the levies continue 78 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: on because they've got the good genes. So therefore they 79 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: are more apt to survive and reproduce and be successful 80 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 1: than they are the tuskan counterparts. So what we have 81 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: there is called survival of the fittest. You are reproductively 82 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: fit if you are likely to go on and bear 83 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: fruit as it were. Yeah, baby fruit. Darwin realized early 84 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: on to the variation was a big key to all this. Um. 85 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: You take two sets of pigs and they have baby pigs, 86 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: They're not all going to be identical. Some of those 87 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: pigs will have little, seemingly insignificant details about themselves. Brown 88 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: spots maybe, And but it turns out that brown spots 89 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: drive the lady pigs wild. It might be that easy. 90 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: So this guy's mating left and right and has a 91 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: bunch of kids, so his brown spots make him reproductively fit. 92 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: That's right. What looks or not even looks like what 93 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: could be a random variation could really lead to the 94 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: survival of that pig and maybe an entire species. Yeah. 95 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: I've heard this really interesting UM article on Nautilus I 96 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: think recently, and it was basically the idea that the 97 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: human body is just a hackathon of Well, we need 98 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: to fix this problem, so let's come up with this 99 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: or they humans started standing up on two legs, so 100 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: we need to fix it with this um and but 101 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: if you stem back and look at it, the human bodies, 102 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: is this really cluji thing held together with like duct 103 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: tape and bubblegum right, um like a v W you 104 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: buck um and uh. The the author interviewed like I 105 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: think ten different biologists and said, you know, what's something 106 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: you would change about the uh, the human body to 107 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: improve it. That was basically just the hack. It was 108 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: pretty interesting. That's awesome. See if I can find it. 109 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: Is that going to be in your best things? I've 110 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: read this week post blog post. I think so maybe 111 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: it should be. And you read it while you were 112 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: working out on your Nautilus machine. Now I read it 113 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: on Nautilus website. Got you and they have a clever website. 114 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: It's and a U T I L dot us. Oh 115 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: see what they do? Yeah, so it's not a lie. 116 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: Dot us are not told dot us not till Yes. Okay, 117 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: so you talked about fitness. The more offspring you have, 118 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: the more fit you are as a parent and as 119 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: a mammal or animal or whatever. You've hit the nautilus 120 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: so often that you're just totally fit. If you've had 121 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: a bunch of kids. That's right, because uh, as we 122 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: all know, not all, not of your genetic material goes 123 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: into each one of your little babies. Because you you know, 124 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: you have sex with someone else, you gotta share, you 125 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: share compromise. So in order to increase the chances of 126 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: one of your little babies having all of your genetic material, 127 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: you need just need to more and more babies. It's amazing. 128 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: That's weird, um, because I always thought that the you're 129 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: the amount of genes that you pass on with set 130 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: like or whatever went into your kid, right, Well, yeah, 131 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: but you have sex, and of these genes goes in 132 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: you have sex again, another set of your genes might 133 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: get picked. I've never heard it put like that. That 134 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: makes sense, though. I always thought the more like the 135 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: drive to keep having kids and and reproduce was two 136 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: because you were going to have fifty percent of your 137 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: genes out there in the world no matter what. But 138 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: all those kids could like you know, bite the dust. 139 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: And so the more you have, the more insurance you 140 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: have that those go on. Never thought of it the 141 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: way you just but the upshot of all this and 142 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: by extension, the upshot of Darwin's entire theory of evolution 143 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: by natural selection driven by variation is that you any 144 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: any any trait that an organism has that improves its 145 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: capability to reproduce or its likelihood of reproducing, is going 146 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: to be selected for, and that's going to lead to 147 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: the evolution of the species. Right, And that basically the 148 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: whole point, this is the unspoken part, The whole point 149 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: of everything is to reproduce, to pass your genes along. 150 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: That was Richard dawkins contribution with the selfish gene. Right. 151 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: The problem is, and Darwin saw this while he was 152 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: coming up with his theory um was that there is 153 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: behavior found in nature that does the exact opposite of that, 154 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: where organisms choose it seems to live a life where 155 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: they don't reproduce and instead help others of their kind reproduce, 156 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: which is called biologically altruistic behavior. And it makes zero 157 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: sense whatsoever under um Darwin's theory of evolution. And it's 158 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: just been a puzzle and a challenge to the theory 159 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: ever since he first noticed that. Well, I think that's 160 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: a great place for a break, my friend, and we'll 161 00:09:55,320 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: talk about this weird thing after we get back. So 162 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: Darwin Um talked a lot about competition. That was one 163 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,599 Speaker 1: of the big keys to his theory working is unfortunately, 164 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: in nature, it can't be like elementary school field day 165 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: where everyone gets a participant ribbon. Um. There's gonna be 166 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: winners and losers, and the winners will go on to 167 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: survive and the losers might not. But where this wrinkle 168 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: comes in is what you mentioned before the break, biological altruism. Um. 169 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: It's remarkable that there are, and we'll talk about some 170 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: of them, that there are species that don't even try 171 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: to reproduce. So yeah, so well there's members of certain species, right, yeah, 172 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: So a really good example is the b right, A 173 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: drone is a female and a female that I think, 174 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: and and some be species are totally sterile, so they 175 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: can't reproduce anyway. But even if some of them could, 176 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: they don't. Instead, they go out and collect honey, or 177 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: they collect the nectar they make honey, They choose the 178 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: pollen and spit it back up, and then do that 179 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: a bunch of times, and all of a sudden you 180 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: have honey, which, as everybody knows, is nothing but be 181 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: vomit um. They tend to the offspring the young, they 182 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: bring food to the queen, who is the only one 183 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: to reproduce. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. They serve the 184 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: queen because not only does that. So there's there's two 185 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: things that play here that make the whole thing weird. One, 186 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: if an individual organism is basically here to pass along 187 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: its genes, then why would any individual organism not attempt 188 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: to do that? Right? And Then secondly, and this is 189 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 1: the real mystery, how could these traits that um that 190 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,599 Speaker 1: the organism is driven by to be helpful and altruistic 191 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: rather than be reproductive. How could that possibly be passed 192 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 1: on from one generation to the next If that organism 193 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: isn't passing that trait along, it's a big question mark. Man, 194 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: Well it was, and it's not proven. But in the 195 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties there was a kid in school. It would 196 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,479 Speaker 1: later go on to be a very famous evolutionary biologist, 197 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: but he was a graduate student in the sixties named 198 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: William Hamilton's. He said, you know what I got this idea. 199 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: It's called inclusive fitness or kin selection k I n 200 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: Jerry selection. Not like a kindall, but kin selection. Inclusive fitness. Basically, Uh, 201 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: here's what's going on here. It's not random when you 202 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: see in nature this altruistic behavior of a part of 203 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: a species, of a member of family helping. Most times 204 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: they're helping their family. Yeah, this is actually supported by 205 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: some studies. Very famously, it was supported by a study 206 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: of um. Well, the number of studies of Florida scrub jays, 207 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: which are pretty little blue birds, and some members of 208 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: the Florida scrub jays species UM don't mate when it 209 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: comes time to mate during mating season, right. Instead, they 210 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: help um gather food, They help defend nests and protect 211 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: the eggs. They helped build their like here, let me 212 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: build you a little sex room, brother, and you know, 213 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: I'm gonna put a tie on the hen nesto later 214 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: if you're tired. But you just go in there and 215 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: do your business. Hugs hugs brother deeply. He's like the 216 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: whole family's proud of. But I'm gonna go out here 217 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: and not have sex. I'm just gonna stay in guard 218 00:13:54,840 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: and and maybe listen. That's that's the scrub jays and exactly. Uh, 219 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: it's remarkable. So it doesn't make any sense, right, No, 220 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: it doesn't until you investigate it through the lens of 221 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: kin selection and so UM. This one study in particular 222 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: UM that followed scrub jays as they didn't mate and 223 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: instead carried out this altruistic helping behavior. They found that 224 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: of the seventy four relationships that were observed, forty eight 225 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: assisted their parents, gross uh sixteen helped their father again, 226 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: Grody uh seven assisted a brother, two assisted their mother, 227 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: and then one one out of all seventy four helped 228 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: the stranger. And you can imagine that bird was probably 229 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: just a little dim witted. Well, I was about to say, 230 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: I thought it was confused maybe, but like you're my brother, right, 231 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: or the researchers were confused and didn't realize that this 232 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: was their close kind. But the point is this altruistic behavior. 233 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: The study supports the idea that the organism, the animal, 234 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: the person whoever, is helping somebody related to them, and 235 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: therefore it does make sense an evolution because the person 236 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: is helping ensure that some of their genes, not necessarily 237 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: their specific genes they are passing down through reproduction, but 238 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: some of their genes through their direct blood relative. Um, 239 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: they're helping make sure that those get passed long and 240 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: then then altruism starts to make sense. It's amazing. Uh 241 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: you want to hear an ever evolutionary biologist joke about this? Yeah, 242 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: I would gladly die for two brothers or four cousins 243 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: or eight second cousins. That's that's pretty good. Yeah, that 244 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: makes sense. I read that and I thought that kind 245 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: of describes it perfectly. It's well, it's not very funny 246 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: because it's an evolutionary biology jokes, but it does describe it. Uh. 247 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: So this happened in the nineteen sixties, and like I said, 248 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: Hamilton's went on to write books and he actually came 249 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: up with math it, he says, proves this to be 250 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: the case. Yeah, because he used letters instead of numbers, 251 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: So you know, it's legit. It's actually a pretty smart 252 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: little equation. It's called Hamilton's rule. I like it. Do 253 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: you like it? Yeah? I mean it makes sense, it's distinct. 254 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: I can understand it. You can dance to it. I'm right, 255 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: it's got a good beat. I'm not threatened by it. 256 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: So I like it. All right, Well, should we talk 257 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: about it? I know it's a little uh esoteric to 258 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: talk about a math formula. Uh is easier looked at? Well, 259 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: just close your eyes, everybody and imagine this. Okay, uh, well, 260 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: in math terms, what we're talking about, it's an individual's 261 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: relative genetic representation in the gene pool in the next 262 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: in the following generation. So if you literally look at it, 263 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: it's be the letter B greater than the letter C. 264 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: Over are right, So in this case, the B is 265 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: greater than So that's the benefit, which I guess would 266 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: be the likelihood that their gene were passed down. Okay, 267 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: that would be the benefit. So the benefit is greater 268 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: than the cost incurred by the person or the organism 269 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: not reproducing, divided by the relationship. Right, So the closer 270 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: you are, the likelier it is that you're going to 271 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: enjoy a benefit over the cost. Yeah, there was. There's 272 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: a PhD uh, a PhD um online named Bjorn b Ms. 273 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: It was much smarter than me because I had a 274 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,120 Speaker 1: little trouble wrapping my brain around around how this math 275 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: proves it um and and we'll we'll get into the 276 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: alternative theory here in a minute, proves it over the 277 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: alternative theory of group success um. And he basically said 278 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: the altruistics the altruist act must be at least double 279 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: the receiver's fitness in order for that altruist to gain 280 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: representation in the next generation. Yeah, and and and it 281 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: makes sense. So here's how it makes sense. If you, 282 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: um are going to have two kids. Um, if you 283 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: did reproduce and you were going to have two kids, 284 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: but instead of having those two kids, you helped your 285 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: brother and he was able to have three. There you go. Yeah, 286 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: they I saw. So I saw Hamilton's rule expressed differently 287 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: somewhere else, and it made it easier for me to understand. 288 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: Let's hear your version RB minus C is greater than zero. 289 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: So if the relationship coefficient um times the benefit minus 290 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 1: the cost is greater than zero, then go for it, 291 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: says nature. Then it makes sense altruistically. All right, Well, 292 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: let's my math brain hurts. So let's take a break. 293 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: And uh, we even bragged about how we got that. 294 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: I sort of get it. We'll take a break and 295 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: talk more about some more animals who do this and 296 00:18:50,000 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: the idea of group selection. All right, So we mentioned 297 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: the scrub J, the scrubby little scrub J who likes 298 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: to build sex dungeons or his family. Uh. We talked 299 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: about bees. They are also ants and wasps and other insects. 300 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: Who served the queen. Um these workers. It's sort of 301 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: like insects socialism, almost working side by side for the 302 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: benefit of the group. Forgetting my own yeah, forget my 303 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: own reproduction. I want the colony to survive, and this 304 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: is my job, and so I'm gonna do it well. Um. 305 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: Another example is, uh, some animals have a call. They 306 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: will signal out, hey, there's an intruder coming family toward 307 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: the house. And I might be giving up my own 308 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: life by drawing attention to myself, but I'm still going 309 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: to do that now. I actually did see an explain 310 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: for that that doesn't have to do with actual altruism 311 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 1: merging selection them. Among mere cats, they have sentinels. Anytime 312 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: a gang of mere cats is out hunting, one of 313 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: them is just standing up, looking very cute in all directions, 314 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: and when they see danger, they call out to a 315 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: warning to the rest of the group. But um, this 316 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: one study that included like two thousand hours of of 317 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: UM watching and observing these mere cats found that not 318 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: one sentinel was killed during this time. And as a 319 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: matter of fact, they were the ones that get away 320 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: first because they're the ones watching, so they see first 321 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: and then they call but it's actually that call is 322 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: not much of a cost to the individual. Well, that's 323 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: a mere cat. They're super smart. What about the dumb squirrel? 324 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,239 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean maybe, although mere cats do 325 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: very famously engage in altruistic behavior themselves. Like mere cat 326 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: pups can't feed themselves, but apparently they can squeal and 327 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: beg and um. Most of the time they will be fed, 328 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: but the mere cat feeding them is not necessarily and 329 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: in most cases isn't their biological parents. It's somebody else. 330 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: And mere cats definitely have that whole village to raise 331 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: a child thing going on for sure. Um, And it 332 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense through kin selection and not 333 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: another way. It's interesting. It's hard not to think of 334 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: politics when you're reading this stuff in the animal world. 335 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: You know, what's a good model for It depends on 336 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: what you think. Well, I mean, it's a good model 337 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: to understand it, I should say, yeah, I saw. I 338 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: had a this funny. I was driving home from the 339 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: grocery store the other day and there was a major intersection, 340 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: uh near my house where the traffic lights were out, 341 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: like four four away intersection and each one had their 342 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: own turn lane, and it was rush hour, and I 343 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: just laughed looking around like the American political system was 344 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: entirely represented. Oh yeah, man. Some people just barreled through, 345 00:21:55,359 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: didn't care. Some people, uh just wouldn't go. They were 346 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: just like frozen and fear. Some people are like no 347 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: you go, well, no you go? Will you go? And 348 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: then someone behind one Honker, was like all right, I'll go, 349 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: And you could just really kind of see everything, just 350 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: like it really opened my eyes. And I think, I 351 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: don't know what you would call me, because I'm the 352 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: by the book guy. I'm like, blinking yellow doesn't mean stop, 353 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: it means proceeds slowly, cautiously. But one was red and 354 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: one is yellow. Everybody was stopping because it was just 355 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: so crowded, exactly. Yeah. And there's definitely people who do 356 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: see it the way you do and then go ahead 357 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: and do that. But it does seem like humans have 358 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: recently decided like, no, if it's red, blinking red and 359 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: blinking yellow, the people with the yellow are going to 360 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: stop eventually and let the people with the red go 361 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: altruistic act. Very interesting, all right, So let's uh we 362 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:55,239 Speaker 1: teased group uh multi level selection or group selection. This 363 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: is something Darwin talked a little bit about in the 364 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: descentive man, but he is main focus was on the individual, 365 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: but he dabbled in it. Uh, he dabbled in group play. 366 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: But this is a theory where there are these altruistic traits. 367 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: No one's denying that. We see it all over the 368 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: animal kingdom. But it's not necessarily toward a family. It's 369 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: just for the good of the whole group. Yeah. So 370 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: the the whole idea of kin selection, apparently UM has 371 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: been challenged, although not widely challenged UM by the idea 372 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: that if you really look at some species, the species 373 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: that are closely related, some of them don't do anything altruistically, 374 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: and then others that do engage in altruism don't necessarily 375 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: do it for close relations UM. So if that's the case, 376 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: then the whole idea of kin selection is challenged because 377 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: the basis of kin selection is that these are UM 378 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: organisms helping to pass on some of their related traits 379 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: that their relatives are passing along through reproduction. And if 380 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: that's not the case, then that's that's the question. Mark returns. Well, yeah, 381 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: and then there's the whole thing that there are in 382 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: in groups of animals, some are related, some aren't. So 383 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: it's hard to tell where one where group behavior stops 384 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: and family behavior begins. So you have a lot of 385 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,360 Speaker 1: biologists saying this is just sort of semantical. We shouldn't 386 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: be arguing about this. It's sort of the same their 387 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 1: equivalent basically, helping the family is helping the group. Right. 388 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: But then a few years back, very famous um aunt 389 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: man EO. Wilson, who actually awesome guy, Like as far 390 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: as scientists go, this guy should have statues erected to him. 391 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: He's a very brave scientist. He's known as the father 392 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: of sociobiology. Right. Um. He also, when he was a teenager, 393 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: was the first to observe and um study fire ants 394 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: when they just happened to be transported to South America 395 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: as ballot or from South America to New Orleans as 396 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: ballast in a ship. He happened to notice him for 397 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: the first time fire ants in the Southeast red ants. 398 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: He was there when they when they came about, and 399 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: he ended up they didn't originate here, No, they were 400 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: brought as like as in scoops of dirt from South 401 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: America and they just took over. But he was a 402 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: teenager and he was studying him. So he's a really 403 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: great scientist, but he um has uh attracted the ire 404 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: of his fellow scientists by saying Kin selections bunk. Yeah, 405 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: he reversed his position though, right. Yeah, he was an 406 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: early and longtime champion of of Kin's selection and he 407 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: he apparently changed his way of thinking and now says 408 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: it's group selection instead. Yeah. And Richard Dawkins, we mentioned 409 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: him earlier, he's uh. He fired back at E. O. 410 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: Wilson was basically, you know what, dude, you're wrong. I 411 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: know you wrote a book about it. But he said, 412 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: there are quote pervasive theoretical errors in your books are 413 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 1: and Wilson's Is he still alive? I think he has. 414 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: Dawkins isn't Wilson's old though, because eighty five when in 415 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: two thousand and eleven, so he'd be no, you know, right, 416 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: he maybe alive. I'm not sure if he's not or 417 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: if he is. Well, Dawkins is. Dawkins is very famous 418 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: for his freeloader effect too, Yeah, as part of the 419 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: selfish gene. And that's the problem. I think that's one 420 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: of the reasons why E. O. Wilson has attracted so 421 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: much iger from the scientific community because a lot of 422 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:22,479 Speaker 1: scientists built their careers on things like Kin's selection and 423 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: explaining it. Um. And they were doing so following in 424 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: the wake of E. O. Wilson, who was a huge 425 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: prostalytizer for it, and then all of a sudden, this 426 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: prophet like turns around on him towards the end of 427 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: his life and after his own career, you know, um, 428 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: and he a lot of people were ticked off by it, 429 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: But it makes sense the group selection doesn't. Basically, it's saying, 430 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 1: like you said, a lot of people are like, this 431 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: is just semantics, we shouldn't be arguing about it. But 432 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: group selection says it's not the relatives that these organisms 433 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: are looking out for. It's their group, it's their species. 434 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: They're making sure their species continue along, and that's enough 435 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: for an altruistic act to exist. Yeah. And so, like 436 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: I said, Um, with all these other scientists that were 437 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 1: upset by this, Dawkins is included. And one reason Dawkins 438 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: would be upset about that is because he wrote the 439 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: Selfish gene, which helps explain kin selection. Yeah. Uh and 440 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: altruism and uh yeah. He was taking shots at E. O. 441 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: Wilson and the press over the whole thing. Yeah, and 442 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: his freeloader effect, which I mentioned a few minutes ago, 443 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: was basically he said, you know what um you get, 444 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: you call it a mutant freeloader. One of these freeloaders 445 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: can take it down, take down this altruistic society or 446 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: species because they're just lazing about and they have more 447 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: time to have sex and reproduce, and they can reproduce faster. 448 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: So everyone else is out there working for everybody altruistically. 449 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: His freeloaders just having sex and having babies. So that's 450 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: gonna be the gene that gets carried down the most. Which, yeah, 451 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: I guess that supports can selection. I don't know. I'm 452 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: not sure either. I don't have to read the selfish 453 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 1: gene and find out. Yeah, I just thought it was interesting. 454 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: Yeah I do too. But then also chuck um with 455 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: the whole idea as well of whether kin selection or 456 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: group selection explains anything. If you are helping somebody, If 457 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: an organism helps UH related or just a group organism reproduce, 458 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: and that organism who gave up reproducing was going to 459 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 1: have two kids but only helps that other organism have one, 460 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: then isn't that a net loss for the species or 461 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: the family. Well, yeah, but I think that's what that 462 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,239 Speaker 1: math formula was aught about all about, is as it 463 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: has to be double or else it's not gonna keep happening. 464 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: I got so. I wonder then if there's been study 465 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: that shows, yes, it's typically double. I think that's what 466 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: he said. The math proved crazy stuff, biologists going nuts 467 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: on one another and we're just sitting on the sidelines, 468 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: and even pop coin talking about it. If you want 469 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,719 Speaker 1: to know more about sociobiology and other stuff like that, 470 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: including kin selection or group selection, you could type in 471 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: kin k I N into the search part how stuff 472 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: works dot com and it will bring up a pretty 473 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: interesting article. Since I said, Ken, it's time for listener mail, 474 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this companion to the previous listener Maile 475 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: Finland rules, and I'm gonna call this Sweden rules. Starting 476 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: some static on more crazy Scandinavians. Hey, guys, a long 477 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: time listener, just finish with the dark money and want 478 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: to give me some insight about our socialist paradise of Sweden. Yes, 479 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: we do pay quite a bit of tax. A regular 480 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: Joe pays about of his or her income as tax. 481 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: If you earn more, you pay more tax. There's also 482 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: a VAT tax and everything between six percent on food 483 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: to on everything else. So yes, we never stopped paying 484 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: the man. So what do we get, Well, we're guaranteed healthcare. 485 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: There's a small fee about ten dollars for a medical situation, 486 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: but after that it's all free X rays, cancer treatments, 487 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: it's all free. Also, you can, if you have enough 488 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: visits to the hospital. I guess you get a punch card. 489 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: You get a free card, which means you don't even 490 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: have to pay that ten dollars or pay for medicine. 491 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: Sweet deal, he says. Uh, school is naturally totally free. 492 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: We actually even get a salary for attending university about 493 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: three hundred dollars a month is a stipend, all for free. 494 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: We can also take out a student loan with very 495 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: affordable payment plans that don't kick in until after you graduated. 496 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: Uh makes it common. Uh, that makes it so it's 497 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: common for all people of all ages to go to university. 498 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: And lastly, we have kids. When you have kids, the 499 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: parents can take out four hundred and eighty days of 500 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: paid to pattorney leave. Oh yeah, the US is so 501 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,959 Speaker 1: far behind other industrialized nation. Yeah, they're like two weeks 502 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: and then good luck, get back to work, and we 503 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: need you responding to emails the whole time too. Uh 504 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: if they must say, our company had a more generously 505 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: than that, So I'm talking about us even for dad's Yeah, um, 506 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: if they take an equal amount, they get a bonus payment. Um. 507 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: After that, there's a system of kindergartens that takes care 508 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: of the kids until they reach school age. Again free. 509 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: We do have some problems, of course. A lot of 510 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: the health care has been privatized in recent years, which 511 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: hasn't been all great. Also, there's a movement of xenophobia 512 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: sweeping the nation, fueled by the terrible refuge refugee situation 513 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: in Europe. The third largest political party has its roots 514 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: and far right, anti democratic, even Nazi movements, is what 515 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: he says. That's really surprising because usually they point to 516 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,479 Speaker 1: the rise of things like that as the result of 517 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: economic woes. Yeah, it doesn't sound like Sweden has too 518 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: many economic woes, so I mean, what accounts for that? 519 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. Follow up, he says, on the whole, 520 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: it's great place to live. Thanks for the show. Entertainment 521 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 1: at its very fineness, and that is from a gurn 522 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: Dextrom great name, g B. He said. If I can 523 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: pronounce his name, I get a prize. Canna send you 524 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: as the film because you got it right. That'd be great. 525 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: Thanks Garen, I'd like your other film. If you want 526 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us, you can tweet to 527 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: us at s Y s K podcast. You can join 528 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: us on Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know. 529 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: You can send us an email to stuff podcast the house. 530 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com has always joined us at our 531 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: home on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot com 532 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Does 533 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com