WEBVTT - Black Music Month QLS Classic: James Mtume Part 2 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:04.240 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:07.040 episode was produced by the team at Pandora. 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:12.200 What up, y'all is Laiyah from Team Supreme. Okay, So 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:15.400 it's June, and you know it is Black Music Month. Now, 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.160 this month and its cause was started by my godmother, 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.560 Dianna Williams, the legendary Kenny Gamble, and the great ed 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:24.919 right back in nineteen seventy nine after being invited to 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.040 the White House along with the Black Music Association. Now, 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.320 the Black Music Association was a group of black folks 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.040 that were the best of the best of the music industry. 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:36.440 I'm talking record execs, I'm talking radio people, I'm talking artists. 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.199 I'm talking to everybody from Clarence Avon and Frankie Crocker 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.720 to Percy Sutton, everybody in the middle right. So they 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:44.800 all get invited to this big party on the White 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.839 House lawn June seventh, nineteen seventy nine. And before the 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:52.919 performances started, President Carter said many things addressing and reminding 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:55.720 people of the importance of black music. Monk, and one 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.280 of the things he said was end quote in many ways, 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:01.880 the feelings of our own black citizens throughout the history 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:05.000 of our country has been accurately expressed in the music, 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:07.640 and it presents a kind of history of our nation 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.280 when you go back and see the evolution of black 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:14.039 music word. So we've spoken a lot about black music 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.200 months on Questloves Supreme, and this June we are running 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:21.479 a different episode from the QLs archives every single day 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.960 in the name Spirit and Cause of Black music. 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:27.160 Mom Next up. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.760 We are honoring a legend who has transitioned and so 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.720 we continue to honor him, the amazing James m Two men. 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.480 So, uh, after you want to gram me for the closer, 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.680 I get to you. Correct, I hope you did. 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.000 Yeah, yeah, I stumbled for a minute because you know 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.720 that I never cared about that. Really, I didn't care 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:53.360 about that. I don't even know where that thing is, man, 0:01:53.800 --> 0:02:02.960 what that's five? They tell you, my son. So I 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:06.960 had it somewhere. So I was somewhere out and Fire 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:11.520 told me one day he was practicing, you know, trying 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.560 to be Michael Jackson, he said, and he spun and 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:17.560 he overspun and the thing fluck flung out his fingers. 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:18.760 And broke broke the ground. 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.440 So he was like, like, really, oh God, what I'm 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:26.960 to say? He tried to glue it and when I 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.120 got home mess I don't really care about that because 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:33.680 I was so offended that back then. Why was I offended? 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.720 Back then? They didn't give the Black Awards on television. 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:43.160 It was doing the commercial now, well your hip hop 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.040 caught it. But R and B was like, we don't 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:49.280 announce we won the best arm B Record of the 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:51.520 Year and it was doing the commercials And they come 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.720 back and said, well, earlier to night we announced. It's 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.280 a messive. Man. I don't know, but I never really cared. 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.880 I don't have gold records and platinums on my hanging nowhere, 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:02.919 am I right? Yet they're in the basement in a 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.839 box in my garage. What look, man? 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:14.040 What is hanging on the what's hanging on? I'm just 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:15.440 I was just curious. Now you said, I'm like, what 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.360 kind of aids? 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.520 Anything that you like? I don't have. No, I'm not 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.640 into I'm not a collector. I don't want to. You know, 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:31.000 saund that that that adventurous. But I see something I 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:31.320 like it. 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.080 Did you did you work on, uh the what you're 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.800 gonna do from with my love and album with Steffani 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.920 emails or what you're gonna do with or is it 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:45.160 sweets and station? Now? Yes, first four. So you guys 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:47.120 did put your body in and all that stuff, and 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.440 that's my ship. I'm sorry. 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:52.680 I boom boom boom boom. 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.840 Yeah, I really should my notes and I'm just speaking 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.240 as an off the Cup fan. So what is it? 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:05.880 What's it like working with an artist of Stephanie's statute 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.560 where like, almost in my head, I think in that 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.840 time period I would put her okay and as far 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.800 as the the the challenge difficulty category, I would put 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.240 her in almost Patty in the same basket, where it's like, 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.119 you know, the talent is there, you know the voice 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.280 is there, and you know that a lot of their 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:33.280 a lot of their varieties based on the the gymnastic yeah, 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:35.640 the high note in the in the fanciness of it. 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:40.279 But it's like when you're making pop records, you gotta sing. 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.240 The song has to be right and disciplined. So how 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:48.280 do you discipline a sing a singer like Stephanie Mills 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:53.839 that's able to sing synk rings around you and just 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:55.200 tell it, look stick to the. 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.360 Well, here's the entry again, story behind everything that wasn't 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.039 Stephanie's first's album. A lot of people don't know that. Okay, 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:02.960 she had an album before that that was written and 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:08.440 produced by two of my main inspirations, Burt Backrack and 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:08.920 how David. 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.120 Wait on twenty she was on Another Lady. 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:18.440 Yeah, okay, look it up. So these cats, well, I 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:25.839 had three inspirations. First was Curtis Mayfield, then it was 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:30.920 Burt back David, then was Holland oser In Holland, and 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.640 then later on obviously Gambling Huff and Tom Bell. But 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.600 and Tom Bell kind of took Backrack and David and 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.440 blackened it more. But it was sorry but I don't know, no, 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.360 I don't know what it was on. But so I'm like, damn, 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:48.919 I gotta come behind cats that all that, you know, 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.200 Dion Warwick all that. I was like, oh my god, 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.320 the mistake that they made. They produced her like she's done, 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:59.400 She's not dem she's something else. So we have a 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:07.040 first meeting with Stephanie. I had just left Roberta. We 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.320 were finished. I told her this is the last tour. 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:14.520 I didn't have nothing that there wasn't no work. But 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:18.080 the whole band quit when I quit, and I was like, 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.600 I ain't got no work from nobody, and I get 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.040 the call. It said me and Reggie. I said, man, 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:29.520 we had partnered with Famous Music. We did a publishing 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.560 a fifty fifty things. So they called and said, man, 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.000 look have you ever produced anything. I said, yeah, but 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.360 none of us been released. I ain't produced nothing, man 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:43.640 but a headache. So they sent us back then you 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:47.159 would get seed money to do demos. So they sent 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:51.279 I think maybe fifteen grand do three songs. First three 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:52.960 songs we cut what you're gonna do with my loving 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:55.880 put your body in it and deeper inside your love. 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.560 And I remember telling them if you can't hear this, 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:13.960 and to Watha singing all the references demo, you have those, no, no, no, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.760 but see, let me tell you one of the everybody 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:19.960 has a little things that they do. One of the 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:21.800 things that we did that was kind of different in 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:26.000 recording back then, I recorded with the synth players being there. 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.520 They were part of the rhythm section. To Watha sang 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.480 on every take. I wanted the musicians to be playing 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.240 with the feeling. So everything you ever heard coming out 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:41.880 of Philisheim and all that is to Watha singing the leads, 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.040 you know here comes to everybody's in But you're playing 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:46.880 with greater voice to. 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:47.160 Do it to. 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.640 But it made it made it even warmer. And and 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.720 and the cats play, you know with more So. 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:58.640 When Stephanie Mills and subsequently Phil Simon are getting these 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.560 demos so on you're saying that on the you know 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:05.400 how to Love Me Full the Time and demo, she's 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.480 ghosting like she's studying listening to how. 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:14.120 To wout every song we ever did to Watcher's recording. 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:18.000 While maybe sometimes you got six takes, she's singing on 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.080 every take because I wanted that emotion there. And when 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:22.880 you get it and you send it that you know 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.960 to the whatever you know that you getting ready to do, 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.520 so they know how the song goes. But what better 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:30.000 reference now? 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.560 And in your crew? First of all, how did you 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.400 guys decide and short of them in the Chard way 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.560 of things, how did you guys decide the name of 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:40.599 the group is going to be? And two man, I 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:42.040 didn't like why not Lucas? 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:47.520 No, we did well. I went when I went to Epic, 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:55.760 we was gonna name the band Mindbender. I mean because 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:57.600 everybody was on p funk. You know, we do the 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:01.240 costumes and it was a guy who had the promotions 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:06.560 at epic named Paris Ealy and Paris said no man, 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.880 he said him too, May And I was like, are 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.559 you crazy? People? You know today mister Muttmin was here, 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:18.559 I mean made that was so weird. We're talking about 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.600 nineteen seventy eight. And he said, no, this is what 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:24.719 we'll do. He said, I know it's people don't know 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:26.840 how to pronounce it. He said, we'll call it. 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:27.120 He said. 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.520 The one thing about that, he said, once you know 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:32.120 that name, you'll never forget it. And he said, and 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.640 we'll put the albums out with it phonetically spelled out 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:40.360 how to say it, dash t oo dash m a y. 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:42.360 It's on your first album. I have a copy of 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.439 the album, which is like M two main pronounced yeah. 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:48.400 And I you know, because I felt weird about it 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:50.360 because I didn't It was like, man, I don't want none. 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.000 That's not what the group was about. 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:53.719 The people in the group. 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.360 Well, I thought the cast would go yo man, but 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:01.040 they were like okay, because they it makes it's something 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.160 about it that does make sense. Well, I mean, I 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.000 didn't go to that deep, but it was that. But 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:08.680 that's how that's that. I didn't have nothing to do 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:08.920 with that. 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.520 It's just like, okay, man, okay, there's a question about 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:15.840 your record, and I understand, I guess, and I got 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:19.160 your first album maybe when I started like my first 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:21.960 round digging, like in the late eighties. So when I 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:26.440 discovered there were albums before the Juicy Fruit, why didn't 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:32.680 you guys ever think of making yes a complete song? 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:23.440 Erica actually get ready to say Erica Bad called me, yeah, 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:25.920 and she said, that's one of my favorite That was 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.559 the sludy seconds. Yeah. Well, you know what, I'm also 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:34.959 kind of humorous. And if you notice, the first time, 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.960 I think we got to play for the people, and 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.600 then the next time we played that's when I you know, 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:45.439 I hated astrology. Man, what are you what you're signed? 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.400 I said, coach sign, you know, And so we did 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.120 that little take That was just my personal hatred. 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.440 I realized it. But the groove was so monstious. Man, 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:58.520 I'm like, y'all don't even know, like next to roy 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:00.160 are is that? 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:00.199 That? 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.400 To me is like that could to be the beginning 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.840 and the father of like some neo soul, Like that's 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:08.160 our blueprint. 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:28.920 Asparagus, Chill Rising Laws, my sign, Spinach the community Pea. Well, 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.000 that was like we tried. 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:32.760 Erica tried to get us to do that. I think 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:37.240 we oh really after who was after Mama's Gone? Uh, 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.160 worldwide underground, world Wide Underground. The one idea worked on 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:47.280 before it was we we tried to make that into 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.800 a jam. I mean, it's still somewhere up there, so 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:51.719 maybe so bring it back. 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:53.960 Talk to me about Lovelock. That's like one of my 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:58.120 favorite song. Look god, look, so where did that come from? 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:03.680 We were working on the album. I had that thing, 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:17.079 you know, the magic to that record. It's Watha and 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.440 we hit up there's a groove that gets we get into, 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.599 especially towards the end, and I'm playing you know, acoustic, 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:27.960 and I'm going through this Latin ding ding d tink 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:33.320 and she just it was just magic. Man, it was magic. 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.840 I mean I remember we cut that in one tape. Yeah, 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:40.120 And you know, some sometimes that's that's how it goes. 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:44.120 Some ship you cut recut and it just don't work. 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:48.480 But that just and it really was a combination of 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.199 arm and B and jazz, it really was. And uh, 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:54.760 but her it's her saying and I think floord for 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:57.760 him and I are told we did it, But it's 0:13:57.760 --> 0:13:58.959 her performance. 0:13:58.480 --> 0:13:59.960 Man, that makes total sense that flow. 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.160 Now you know what I thought of it? Wow, when 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.240 we did I thought I always thought of it like 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:10.679 an airline commercial, you know, fly T zero A whatever. 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:13.559 I love that song and thank you for that. 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:15.520 There's there's there's a member of your team that we 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:19.520 haven't mentioned yet. And I gotta say, man, like talk 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:26.880 about work with Hubert Eves the third and yeah, like 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:29.360 him being part of the team, like what. 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:36.400 Hubert and I had played together on the jazz circuit. 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.880 You know everybody in the band, okay, the first band incarnation, 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:45.760 Basil Farrington on bass, Hubert Eves, myself, Reggie ed Tree, 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:54.120 Moore of the guitarist, uh, Howard King Locksmith and we 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:58.840 all were jazz musicians, so Ubert uh, you know, we 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.120 played different gigs together her and so when we put 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:06.680 the band together, we all was the band. The recording 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.720 band unit came out of roberta flat. We all played 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:15.240 with Roberta And when we left, I said, well, man, 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.400 when we started getting you know, production gigs, I said, 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.440 this would be the rhythm section because you got to 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.440 have a sound. What's your signature? And we weren't like 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.760 anybody else, you know, you had Nile and Bernard that 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.760 was happening at the same time. It was a few people, 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.920 but we had our own unit. The singers it was 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:43.480 was Tawatha. Uh no, no, no, no, Sidney, Cindy was 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:45.280 I mean Sidney on a couple of things. But the 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.240 of course sisters that she's dead now a great singer 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:56.640 out of NewYork, Brenda White, Tawatha Brenda White and wow, 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:03.600 forgive me. Yeah. But uh, we had our own unit. 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:06.840 And how did you discover it? To Watsa, how did 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:07.920 she come into the circle. 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.080 The first demo me and Reggyeaver cut was this group 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.600 called hot Tea out of Howard University. It was to 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.760 Watsa and Angela Winbush. 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:21.840 Oh my bro, you're just sitting on that. 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:23.680 Wow. So they were all a part of Howard it was. 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.560 It was. It was a group, a group of five. 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.320 No there was before there were a gospel group and 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.920 uh it was five members. But I'm saying, you know, 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:35.320 to Watha and Aelup was in it. And we cut 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.960 the demo. You know, we couldn't sell it. But out 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:43.080 of that it was to Watsa, you know, and we've 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:45.840 been together forty one years. As a matter of fact, 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.240 I'm getting ready to cut an EP order. You know, 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.120 we're gonna give it a shot. I'm not doing a 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.360 lot of the writing because you know, you got to 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.720 know you know what time it is, you know, and 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.680 it's it's you know, we got some young writers and stuff. 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.200 But I'll be dealing with the melodies, you know what 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:05.520 I mean. 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.720 Okay, I'm not going to try and throw a monkey 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:16.640 wrench in, but here's here's the monkey wrench. No, because okay, 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:21.159 to hear, to hear, you describe it as far as like, 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.960 you know, move forward, don't burn the I mean burn 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.040 the bridge and don't look in the rearview mirror and 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:31.440 let the young people lead the way. But I also 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:37.560 feel like we need to know to kind of know 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:41.240 the way and not let the blind lead the blind. 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:42.520 So well, I agree. 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.879 I still I don't think ideas just expiring people. So 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.000 I mean, I don't want I personally don't don't want 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.920 you to feel like, okay, well I don't have ideas to. 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.399 No, I don't feel like that. But here's why I 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.760 agree with you. In terms of what happens to black music. 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.800 The professors were thrown out of class. There was this 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:11.119 what I call a breakdown in the cultural continuity with 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.919 arm bing funk and when hip hop was coming along. 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:17.719 There was also a struggle a a in a generational 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.800 struggle M younger black U k uh uh of men 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.000 and older blacks. Y. My generation was looking down. That 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:28.080 ain't music, young cats. You know y'all coming through. Man, 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.600 You know f that? So I said, Man, one day 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:33.080 I woke up and said, man, if you got all 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.080 age and no youth, your glass is half full. All 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.760 youth with no age, your glass is half empty. Right now, 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.240 we got a half a glass of music. These conversations 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.760 are what's needed. M Man. I I learned from y'all, 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.159 but I can give you what I know, but be 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.000 open to learn from what y'all doing. There's not enough 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:54.000 sharing of information in black music. That's the problem. Young 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.320 Black kids grow up with the history of their music. 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.680 I used to watch the d grateful dead be great parents, 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:05.000 parents and kids. Your cultural continuity is a real thing. 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.920 We had a real breakdown because of the social thing. 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:13.200 What happened. I always said, my generation began to look 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:19.560 at y'all through other eyes, like y'all wasn't as we 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:21.160 weren't teaching. It was a breakdown. 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:25.240 Speaking of that jazz, all that jazz. Let's talk about 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:29.480 that jazz. Okay, So, of course to a lot of 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:35.440 the to the classic hip hop, uh luminaries that that 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.800 are are well versed in the culture and that owns 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:44.600 of sonics and full gear many many will We'll get 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:45.119 out of here with that. 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:45.600 But let's go. 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:49.600 Dude, until you said that, I totally forgot you were 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:50.600 the subject of that. 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:51.680 Song youth Vader. 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:54.640 So no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't I don't 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.159 even know. I didn't know. He so talking all that 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:02.720 jazz was about that's about here even here the hear 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:04.560 them like sample. 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:09.600 I'm gonna knock you out. Yeah, here's here's what happened. 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:09.879 Wow. 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:14.480 I co host a black talk show called Open Line 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:20.960 Our Voices, Yeah, openly, and so we were having a discussion. 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:21.359 What time did it come on? 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:26.880 No no, no, no, no, no no no. This is before 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:30.399 they ripped it up. It was a decent hour. But 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:32.679 we were having a debate, a discussion on a debate 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:39.120 about what was the thing that knocked knocked this out? 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.080 Doing a year in review of what happened on the year, 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.080 and I said, man, I've only had been done this 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:47.000 a few times in my life. I know you. I've 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:50.480 been up here about what five hours? Oh no, dude, 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:57.960 start dreaming interview shadow So uh that was the word. 0:20:58.160 --> 0:20:58.560 I was good. 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:01.800 No, please give us all the stories. 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.360 So we were talking about what knocked you out. I said, well, 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:07.960 I've only done this a couple times in my life. Well, 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:10.600 I'm driving and something came on the radio and I 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:14.600 had to pull over. What it was was bring the noise. Wow. 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:19.040 Now I didn't know nothing about sampling. I'm thinking, these 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:25.040 cats are playing in all these different keys tilious month 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:29.680 or stepoids later on, I hooked up with Frank Shockley, 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:36.040 I mean with Shockley, and he explained to me about sampling. Anyway, 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:38.120 to make a long story short. In that same conversation, 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:41.280 I said, the thing that knocked me out was public Enemy. 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:44.960 But I also delved into a subject that nobody wanted 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:50.359 to touch on. I said sampling. At that time, cats 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:53.720 didn't know how to play for the most part. But 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:56.200 that became a badge of honor. I said, wait a minute. 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:58.000 If you want to be a lawyer, you got to 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:00.640 know something about what law. You want to be a doctor, 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:02.760 you gotta know something about what medicine. Why you want 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:03.879 to be in music, but you don't need to know 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:08.040 nothing about music. And I said, I'm not against sampling 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:12.040 as a pit stop, don't live there. And I said, 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:15.880 and if you're gonna sample somebody's music, pay them, that's 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:18.960 all I said. So a lot of people got offended. 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:22.720 And I gotta say this, Daddy or heard that he 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.400 was listening to this. What here is how we started 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:27.120 heard you on the radio talking. 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.840 About rap, saying all that crap about how we sample. 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:32.800 Give an example. We'll let you get away with that 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.800 to criticize our methods how we make You said that 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:38.560 wasn't art, So now we're gonna rip you apart. And 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:41.520 they took it that way. That's not I was not saying. 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:44.440 First of all, how could I say sampling is jag 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:48.000 as much as I you know, said juicy You kidding? 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:52.399 But I said, at that time, they weren't paying you know, 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:56.800 the so and so. Yeah, man, So it didn't really 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:01.560 start turning around until me, me, myself and I came 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.119 out and they sampled still a man, old peg. 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:06.879 Old peg, that's what. 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:09.639 But during that time they weren't paying James and all 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:12.400 the people. Man. Only when I did the juicy food deal. 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:15.840 With Puffy and I gotta say this. I was doing 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:20.280 New York undercover. I was me and Andre Heral were 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:23.560 meeting and and and Andre said, look, my Puffy wants 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:25.240 to holler at you for a minute. So Puffy comes in. 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:27.560 Hey to him, I said, buff, what's up? He said, Man, 0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:29.960 I want you to meet my artist. He said, Biggie 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:34.640 small Biggie comes in, sweetheart man, I said, boom. He said, look, man, 0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:38.280 I want to sample juicy food. Man, I'll say this 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:41.520 about Puffy. We sat down. In a few minutes, we 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:44.320 did a page and a half. It ain't no long conversation. 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:49.320 You get a dollar, like you fifty cents. That's all 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:52.800 it is. I said. But a lot of that became 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:54.720 a thing. And I because I was the only cat 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:58.679 talking about that, and that record came out, I became 0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:01.520 and I was doing handles and stuff and oh man, 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:08.840 you hate hip hop. I'm like, nod that answer your question. 0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:12.880 And me and Daddy O are fabulous friends. Now okay, 0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:16.760 go ahead, okay, So okay, So I want to know 0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:27.960 when Madonna enters the picture, why was Reggie the only 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:28.840 person and producer? 0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:29.320 Not you? 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:34.879 We broke up, Damn. Here's here's timing. No, not really. 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:38.320 I did the Juicy Food album. Ain't I ain't sorry. 0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:51.080 Here's what happened. There's a point when you're partnering, you're 0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:52.200 starting to have other. 0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:53.879 Thoughts. 0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:58.520 You've exhausted what that partnership was supposed to do. I 0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:02.480 remember earlier I said, well what kept things together? Well, success, 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:05.119 like the saying is success needs no explanation, fair can 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:11.560 never be explained. So damn when I started, success needs 0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:13.800 no explanation, and failure can never be explained. 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:20.840 He's like outquoding fante. You a coffee table book. I 0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:25.520 would read it just like I'd read It's. 0:25:24.119 --> 0:25:30.120 Like I was starting to hear that I was done. 0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:33.040 I remember I always tell the story man. One day 0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:36.760 I sat down at the piano man to write, and 0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:38.960 I started tears started coming down my eyes. I didn't 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:43.600 know what was happening. And then I realized, Man, this 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:44.480 sounds like all of the. 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:45.760 Ship you was just done before. 0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:52.280 And I was like, oh my god. I felt wrights 0:25:52.320 --> 0:25:57.800 blockade and I said, you got it. What I say, man, 0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:00.600 that it was time for that bridge to be burned. 0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:03.399 I didn't. I didn't hear strings and horns with the 0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:06.879 big arrangements to lush. I was hearing what I call 0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:12.160 neo minimalism, how to take this and make it sound 0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:17.280 like that? Then that was a Juicy Food album. On 0:26:17.440 --> 0:26:19.680 that song, man, there's only four inches. I say, yeah, 0:26:19.680 --> 0:26:23.280 it's not it sounds like this, But I was hearing 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:26.359 something different. Reggie was feeling something different. He hooked up 0:26:26.359 --> 0:26:31.480 with Madonna. I was doing Juicy Fruit. He did Madonna, so. 0:26:31.520 --> 0:26:34.000 He didn't work on the third and two May record. 0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:38.919 What was that one? Oh? Okay, no, no, so that 0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:43.960 was you? Yeah, yeah, I think what I did. I 0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:47.360 might have said one of the tunes we did, but 0:26:47.400 --> 0:26:48.120 it really wasn't. 0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:48.360 No. 0:26:48.560 --> 0:26:53.040 No, that's all me. Oh man, okay, but that wasn't like. 0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:59.120 It was a you know, some anger. No, it was like, yeah, 0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:02.919 where is Reggie? To this day you rarely hear of 0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:04.200 him on the scene or I don't know. 0:27:04.200 --> 0:27:06.000 Reggie's cool. We talked with matter fact, we just talked 0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:09.760 the other day. I just decided, like you said, it's 0:27:09.760 --> 0:27:11.800 not a lot of I don't do even do these 0:27:11.880 --> 0:27:14.679 kind of you know, I five and my daughter have 0:27:14.760 --> 0:27:17.080 convinced me. No, man, you seventy man, come on man, 0:27:17.640 --> 0:27:22.360 you split this information goals. I just decided I just agreed, 0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:25.960 Just agreed. Was it last week we started shooting the 0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:29.000 unsung on My Life? 0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:32.280 And this is crazy too? 0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:37.560 Well, it's kind of nuts. Yeah, it's kind of nuts. Uh. 0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:43.600 It's from everything from my father who's ninety Wow, you 0:27:43.640 --> 0:27:46.879 know too, you know, young cats, you know, and and 0:27:47.040 --> 0:27:50.240 and sisters you know. But I've been around a long time. 0:27:50.320 --> 0:27:51.640 I've been doing this fifty years. Man. 0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:57.720 That's that's crazy. It's not even long enough for me. 0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:03.679 There's more, there's more to do, So, you know, I 0:28:03.680 --> 0:28:06.719 don't even know if you're aware of this, but I 0:28:06.760 --> 0:28:11.000 was going to say that a lot of a lot 0:28:11.000 --> 0:28:14.560 of hip hop heads. Of course, you know, a lot 0:28:14.560 --> 0:28:18.959 of people would think that Juicy is your go to record. 0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:23.440 But what I was telling Fonte earlier upstairs was. 0:28:23.400 --> 0:28:25.200 That and I didn't know this was your record. 0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:29.720 It was this was when uh, for some reason kick 0:28:29.720 --> 0:28:41.800 apri Oh exactly record like that's his go to intro record, 0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:45.480 his freestyle record for rappers, like he's been spinning that forever. 0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:49.480 And I never what song is that. It's called Biggest Theme, 0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:50.760 Biggest Beat. 0:28:51.400 --> 0:28:55.800 It's from I scored this Native Native. It was a movie, 0:28:56.280 --> 0:28:57.400 your first movie I did, And. 0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:04.520 I can't find it nowhere, but like kick Capri must 0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:07.320 have at least like eight copies of the Red Yeah. 0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:11.200 Yeah, when the album the what do you call them? 0:29:11.280 --> 0:29:15.200 Soundtrack not the soundtrack scores. Yeah, it wasn't no like 0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:20.000 soundtracks became songs later, but there was this score and 0:29:20.840 --> 0:29:24.560 kid jumped on it. And I remember telling keV. I 0:29:24.600 --> 0:29:27.000 remember grand Master Flash called me, said, mall the tunes. 0:29:27.040 --> 0:29:29.240 I want to come by and holler at you. So 0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:31.480 he came over to Jersey. I live in South Orange 0:29:31.560 --> 0:29:35.240 and so grand Master was telling me, Man, he said, man, 0:29:35.280 --> 0:29:39.000 you know why we like your music? He said it's holy. 0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:41.480 He said, I don't mean like religious holy. He said, 0:29:41.480 --> 0:29:44.320 you got a lot of holes. We can take snippets. 0:29:44.440 --> 0:29:47.960 And I didn't really, you know, fully understand. I did understand, 0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:52.200 but not fully. And uh, Miles introduced the idea to 0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:55.280 you for space Hey man, quotations, there you go? And 0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:01.280 where was I going? Man? Oh oh with biggest, biggest 0:30:01.280 --> 0:30:05.560 them and uh so that's what prepared me for New 0:30:05.640 --> 0:30:06.360 York Undercover. 0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:14.480 How was it? Uh? In in that sort of. 0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:16.280 I didn't mean to make that, making the transition. I 0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:16.840 should have waited. 0:30:19.160 --> 0:30:26.160 So we're working in uh that medium of television and scoring, Like, 0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:31.320 how easy was that to episode for episode? I personally 0:30:31.560 --> 0:30:35.840 it's easy to you or no, I find it hard. Yeah, 0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:42.600 So what was the pressure like of deadline? 0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:49.440 First? Okay, with truth be told? I breathed. I get 0:30:49.520 --> 0:30:54.680 to l a that the pilot is done. You don't 0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:57.440 have to do a visual music for a pilot. I 0:30:57.560 --> 0:31:00.200 go out there maybe to put a couple of things on. 0:31:00.360 --> 0:31:02.640 It was me and I took a brother because I 0:31:02.680 --> 0:31:06.560 didn't know scoring for television. When I said, you know, 0:31:06.600 --> 0:31:08.400 I didn't know, I want to I got to know. 0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:10.800 And this thing came up quick. When Andrew called me, 0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:14.400 so dun Pearson was like my go to guy. He 0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:19.640 was a music director for with h O Jay's and 0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:21.680 so I said, so when we talk and I want 0:31:21.720 --> 0:31:25.920 to know, what's the Q? What's you know how to 0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:30.320 read at the time? You know? Because frames? How many 0:31:30.360 --> 0:31:36.680 frames per second? And I go out there, man, dick 0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:40.960 Wolf said, Man on we arrive on Friday, Dick Wolf says, man, 0:31:41.520 --> 0:31:46.600 I need a theme Monday. First of all, I don't 0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:51.800 even have any instruments. What do you but you know? No, no, no, no. 0:31:51.600 --> 0:31:53.520 No, this is a true story. It was gonna be 0:31:53.560 --> 0:31:54.320 Saturday man. 0:31:54.880 --> 0:32:00.800 I called my brother and he called uh uh uh 0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:04.880 brother that programmed everything for us. He did the uh 0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:07.240 uh the Chronic. 0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:08.640 Album Colin Wolf. 0:32:08.880 --> 0:32:14.680 No, oh, man, this is crazy program. Uh but you 0:32:14.720 --> 0:32:17.000 look going the credits for the team me done and 0:32:17.240 --> 0:32:20.600 this brother did the team. But because I knew I 0:32:20.640 --> 0:32:23.560 wanted we originally we were supposed to have a cat 0:32:23.920 --> 0:32:26.360 that was gonna Andre said he had a guy that 0:32:26.400 --> 0:32:29.440 we're gonna do all the beats. The night before we 0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:32.080 leaving to go to La I go to his crib 0:32:32.400 --> 0:32:33.840 because when I called him, I said, man, you know 0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:37.480 we're leaving tomorrow. He said, well tunes. I'm not comfortable 0:32:39.680 --> 0:32:42.720 because I wasn't gonna do beats, you know, like right right, 0:32:43.120 --> 0:32:45.040 because I knew one thing I didn't want to do 0:32:45.080 --> 0:32:48.120 nothing old and this was a chance to really put 0:32:48.120 --> 0:32:51.320 a sound on television that had never been done. So 0:32:51.640 --> 0:32:55.360 the night before we leave, he drops out. So my 0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:57.720 brother gets to get the brother I got. You gotta 0:32:57.720 --> 0:32:59.960 look it up with his name, and we do that. 0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:02.280 It's the brother that did the chronic program the Chronic 0:33:02.360 --> 0:33:07.440 and I take it they uh look up for the 0:33:07.440 --> 0:33:09.640 theme in New York on the cover writing credits. 0:33:09.720 --> 0:33:11.600 Uh, it's just showing your name is the writer. 0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:17.000 That's bullshit. I'm telling you it's it's just incorrect. It's 0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:20.960 done piercing myself in the Southern. But so they reject 0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:25.480 the theme. I bring the theme Monday morning. First of all, 0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:28.360 they were shot, you know, man, look I'm talking about no, 0:33:28.360 --> 0:33:32.160 I gotta have this. They rejected it. There was a 0:33:32.200 --> 0:33:35.520 woman named rock sand Lapel that worked at Universal. 0:33:35.040 --> 0:33:38.600 Gregory Royal up the ball boss Bill. 0:33:40.320 --> 0:33:42.680 So yeah, because I did not want to, you know, 0:33:43.000 --> 0:33:49.760 I no, never, I don't do that, she said. Dick 0:33:49.840 --> 0:33:53.600 Wolf rejected it. She said, send me over that. That's 0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:56.880 when we were you know, Dad's she said. I said, oh, man, 0:33:56.920 --> 0:33:59.440 because I'm like, this is the best I can do. 0:33:59.520 --> 0:34:03.720 I'm not because it was fresh, nothing like that. You 0:34:03.760 --> 0:34:10.719 know who's playing the Saxon. That's the brother from earth 0:34:10.719 --> 0:34:15.800 Wind and Fire and you no, no, no, no, no, 0:34:15.840 --> 0:34:22.400 not that, not that earth Wind the original. So I'm like, 0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:25.719 I'm fried man. So I sent it over to her. 0:34:26.040 --> 0:34:28.600 It's a true story. She takes it to the to 0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:32.520 the head the president of the television at Universal. She 0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:35.239 calls me back, she said, I just played it for 0:34:35.280 --> 0:34:38.200 the president. He said, this is exactly what we need 0:34:38.239 --> 0:34:41.319 for this urban show and he said, also tell him 0:34:41.320 --> 0:35:06.920 to mate. Thank you for Juicy Free man. Yo, that 0:35:07.040 --> 0:35:09.000 is no dude, you don't understand. 0:35:09.080 --> 0:35:11.239 Like wait a minute, that was Thursday night. 0:35:11.320 --> 0:35:15.160 Like that was like that song always put me in 0:35:15.280 --> 0:35:18.080 like the best move because it was like, I mean, 0:35:18.160 --> 0:35:19.959 New It's Gonna Come was my favorite show and it 0:35:20.040 --> 0:35:22.160 like starts off dark, but then it goes into that 0:35:22.160 --> 0:35:25.400 that sax line is really beautiful and that's the jazz 0:35:25.440 --> 0:35:26.080 parte and. 0:35:25.960 --> 0:35:27.919 It just said, like I just know, like I heard 0:35:27.920 --> 0:35:30.680 that song and I just know it's Thursday and tomorrow's Friday. 0:35:30.680 --> 0:35:31.400 And this ship about. 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:36.920 The thing is is that I thought you were going 0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:40.360 someone else, somewhere else with the story, as in, you know, 0:35:40.440 --> 0:35:42.440 we did an original theme that they didn't like. Then 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:44.560 we came up with them. I didn't realize that they. 0:35:44.480 --> 0:35:48.439 Heard this, rejected this well, and then took it back. 0:35:48.480 --> 0:35:52.520 Here's what happened. We're talking true. There was some friction 0:35:52.600 --> 0:35:56.040 with Dick and Andre. Andre was originally a co co 0:35:56.120 --> 0:36:00.439 executive producer, and uh, there was some business all out. 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:02.520 I was kind of left out there hanging in the 0:36:02.520 --> 0:36:05.720 middle of it. So Dick and I became very close, 0:36:06.400 --> 0:36:08.600 but Initially he's looking at me as part of this 0:36:09.320 --> 0:36:12.440 and I'm like, no, I'm not. That's my man. He 0:36:12.480 --> 0:36:15.719 brought me in, but I'm serious about this, and he 0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:18.720 looked kind of looked at me like uh. And plus 0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:26.520 he had his man, Mike Post. You gotta remember, Yeah, 0:36:26.600 --> 0:36:28.719 so he was kind of forced to have to deal 0:36:28.760 --> 0:36:31.759 with me, especially after the president of the of the 0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:34.279 studio said no, man, this is what this is what 0:36:34.280 --> 0:36:37.600 we want and I'm into no ego here, man, But 0:36:38.040 --> 0:36:40.800 Mike Post can't do what. I couldn't do that because 0:36:40.840 --> 0:36:45.839 to me, TV music was so staved and stale. And 0:36:46.040 --> 0:36:51.800 here's the chase scene I'm talking about, you know, soprano 0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:54.560 sacks and stuff. You hadn't heard that. Plus I'm doing 0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:59.920 Natalie's I'm scoring this show and then I'm reproducing songs 0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:02.800 for the club scene. Now let's talk about. 0:37:02.680 --> 0:37:04.560 Natal please, yes, let's talk about it. 0:37:04.680 --> 0:37:07.040 Natalie's in the script. The original script was just the 0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:09.800 place where the cops, you know, uh my Leak and 0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:14.000 Michael hung out the original if you watched the first season, 0:37:14.360 --> 0:37:19.640 Gladys Knight is Natalie. She owns Natalie's. She was the 0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:25.120 father's of Michael's father's ex girlfriend. I'm sitting there. I said, man, 0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:27.880 you know what could be interesting New York Undercover the 0:37:27.920 --> 0:37:31.799 first years nineteen ninety four, if you think about it, 0:37:31.920 --> 0:37:34.719 ar Senior Hall had been taken off. There was no 0:37:34.760 --> 0:37:37.919 place to hear or see a black R and B band. 0:37:39.120 --> 0:37:41.640 I said, man, you know what we can do. I'll 0:37:41.680 --> 0:37:47.280 bring in young current artists and redo a classic, bringing 0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:50.960 the classic artists to redo their hits. Airgo one twelve 0:37:51.080 --> 0:37:55.479 after the Lover Is Gone, Mary, Natural woman U Joe 0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:55.920 to Cy. 0:37:56.719 --> 0:37:57.480 They do lately? 0:37:57.640 --> 0:37:58.319 Was that? No? 0:37:58.320 --> 0:37:58.440 No? 0:37:58.480 --> 0:37:58.680 That was. 0:38:00.480 --> 0:38:01.400 What did Josy do? 0:38:01.840 --> 0:38:03.960 They on the Cold Joint because they put y'all you 0:38:04.160 --> 0:38:05.920 put out an album, I'll put out the well I did? 0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:10.680 I did? I did? Uh? Uh? What's the brother? Josy 0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:16.560 the lead Casey I later produced if you think Jason's lyric. 0:38:18.160 --> 0:38:23.120 But so I'm doing, man, I'm saying all this answer 0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:25.200 to your question, brother, I was doing putting in twenty 0:38:25.239 --> 0:38:28.000 hours a day, man, because first of all, I had 0:38:28.000 --> 0:38:32.880 to figure out what's gonna be my sound. All the 0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:34.719 equipment had changed. I'd been off the scene for a 0:38:34.800 --> 0:38:37.960 few years, so I had called all these cats. I'm 0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:41.560 going through thousands of sounds to find out what what'll 0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:44.480 be my go to sounds? How I'm gonna put these beats, 0:38:45.000 --> 0:38:46.759 you know, Because I had to figure all that on 0:38:46.760 --> 0:38:52.839 on on, on the fly and then produced. I worked 0:38:52.840 --> 0:38:57.000 it out finally by the third season, I wrote, scored 0:38:57.040 --> 0:39:00.000 the whole show in two days, did the whole Natalie 0:39:00.320 --> 0:39:03.480 in a day and a half. But it's like third day. 0:39:03.560 --> 0:39:06.040 Well, in a day and a half, you had all 0:39:06.080 --> 0:39:08.719 those artists line up one by one, knocked them out. 0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:13.280 No no, no, no per episode, no no, per episode. 0:39:14.040 --> 0:39:16.319 It was an assistant inam lie on the floor and 0:39:16.400 --> 0:39:18.120 I will talk about, well, who can we get next? 0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:22.240 So we reach out and uh, once we get the artists, 0:39:23.320 --> 0:39:24.960 I would say, okay, this is the song we do 0:39:25.120 --> 0:39:30.040 you know? Uh? And I go in recut those songs, 0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:34.400 those songs, those aren't records, those are all you know, remakes, 0:39:35.120 --> 0:39:37.320 you know, And you got. 0:39:37.120 --> 0:39:40.600 Websites dedicated to the top twenty Natalie perform Ntie. 0:39:41.400 --> 0:39:43.719 Natalie's was till Jordan, what you want to do for love? 0:39:44.040 --> 0:39:51.520 Oh? I forgot all this love well and and and 0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:54.200 jael Vert I remember that one. 0:39:54.400 --> 0:39:54.520 Uh. 0:39:56.040 --> 0:39:58.200 I've been so many places. 0:39:57.960 --> 0:40:01.440 Song for you, A song for you? So can I 0:40:01.520 --> 0:40:06.200 assume that. That's when made the the the relationship with 0:40:06.360 --> 0:40:11.480 Mary for I'm Going down. Uh look, man, did you 0:40:11.520 --> 0:40:14.520 do the New York undercover stuff first? Or did you? 0:40:14.600 --> 0:40:17.160 Because I know you produced when we first met, you produced. 0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:21.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Here's the interesting thing. A lot 0:40:21.239 --> 0:40:23.600 of the young artists after we worked together because they 0:40:23.760 --> 0:40:26.439 never worked with the old head you know, that's Traight 0:40:27.239 --> 0:40:32.799 and Escape s w V the earlier take. They never 0:40:33.000 --> 0:40:35.920 a lot of them never really worked with a vocal producer, 0:40:36.360 --> 0:40:38.600 you know. And I found that out, and so they 0:40:38.600 --> 0:40:40.960 would ask me. They come and to New York on 0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:44.080 the cover and say, yo, man, could you cut on 0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:46.160 my album? 0:40:46.280 --> 0:40:48.160 Because Erica did stay on here? And I was like, 0:40:48.239 --> 0:40:50.240 was that before after she put that on her album? 0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:52.840 Before she did New York? That's on New York? I 0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:57.480 did redid that for di'angelo on the get. 0:40:57.280 --> 0:40:59.640 Off the Yeah you did change? 0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:04.080 Yeah, And that's getting crazy. 0:41:04.160 --> 0:41:09.120 And how so, how do you like doing vocals? I 0:41:09.200 --> 0:41:10.000 hate doing vocals. 0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:13.640 I love it. That's that's that's my ultimate That's the tip. 0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:15.520 I will be calling you from now on the tip of. 0:41:15.440 --> 0:41:21.239 The iceberg is vocals. I always say this, every hit 0:41:21.520 --> 0:41:23.880 is a nursery rhyme. But you got to learn how 0:41:23.880 --> 0:41:26.279 to make it your nursery rhyme. There's no hit that 0:41:26.320 --> 0:41:29.000 you can't home. There's no hit record that you heard 0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:31.000 that you can't hum the melody even if you don't 0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:33.840 know the words. It's nursery rhymes. 0:41:35.080 --> 0:41:39.400 Already known next year's retrospective episode that it's gonna be 0:41:39.400 --> 0:41:42.720 Bill's favorite episode literally taking notes. 0:41:44.760 --> 0:41:47.879 But think about that, that that concept. There's no hit 0:41:48.040 --> 0:41:52.960 that you ever heard that you love that you couldn't Yeah, 0:41:54.040 --> 0:41:56.960 what was your What was it like producing k C vocals? 0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:01.600 Because that was when he was like, okay, bothly kse 0:42:04.160 --> 0:42:07.680 that comes. The first night we worked, said sometimes you 0:42:07.680 --> 0:42:10.560 don't nail it. But what I always did if we 0:42:10.600 --> 0:42:12.600 don't nail something on the first night, I make a 0:42:12.680 --> 0:42:16.560 copy of what you did and then give you right 0:42:16.600 --> 0:42:19.600 behind that a version with no vocal so you could 0:42:19.600 --> 0:42:23.799 work out. So casey, the first night we didn't quite 0:42:23.800 --> 0:42:27.719 get it, I'm like cool, ma ain't no problem. Came 0:42:27.760 --> 0:42:30.880 back about three nights later and we nailed it. The 0:42:30.880 --> 0:42:33.800 reason why I'm saying that was so special, I'll never forget. 0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:36.160 He asked me, said, man, I'm too making I call 0:42:36.239 --> 0:42:40.040 my parents. He called his parents and put the phone 0:42:40.120 --> 0:42:43.440 up to the speakers. He said, Man, I'm doing Bobby 0:42:43.480 --> 0:42:46.520 Womax song and he nailed it, man, And I was 0:42:46.560 --> 0:42:50.360 just so proud of you know, he was a hard worker, Mary, 0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:54.520 hard worker. The Angelo is off the hook. 0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:59.160 Notice he didn't say hard work, no no, no, no 0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:00.080 no no no. 0:43:01.040 --> 0:43:01.520 I meant. 0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:12.520 And I know that YouTube. I was supposed to work 0:43:12.560 --> 0:43:14.360 on the album that you did. 0:43:15.480 --> 0:43:16.280 We're still here. 0:43:16.400 --> 0:43:18.879 That's my that's my man, that's my man. We're still 0:43:19.280 --> 0:43:22.040 and I'll never forget to see. I was doing, uh 0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:27.000 working with D'Angelo and Spike Lee called me. I mean 0:43:27.080 --> 0:43:28.480 he called me to do the thing with Dangelo for 0:43:28.480 --> 0:43:31.640 the get was to get on the bus. So we're 0:43:31.640 --> 0:43:34.600 in the studio and Spike calls me, said, man tunes, 0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:37.279 I'm gonna send some Obis. He said, I just got 0:43:37.520 --> 0:43:42.160 Curtis's song grant a New World Order. We were in 0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:45.799 the studio, man, he rushes it over. Now. I told you, man, 0:43:45.880 --> 0:43:50.920 my main influence, my first influence was Courtis. So I 0:43:50.960 --> 0:43:55.440 put the the the C d N and I hear 0:43:55.520 --> 0:43:57.759 this man and I said, stop it. I said, turn 0:43:57.800 --> 0:44:01.040 all the lights off. Mm hmmm. Sat out there to listen. Man. 0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:05.240 It wasn't a dry eye, and I realized this cat recorded. 0:44:04.760 --> 0:44:05.560 It on his back. 0:44:05.640 --> 0:44:07.640 He was paralyzed, And. 0:44:07.560 --> 0:44:10.040 I said, this cat got more soul. The reason why 0:44:10.080 --> 0:44:14.239 I'm saying this fast forward during New York under Cover, 0:44:14.680 --> 0:44:17.960 I called Curtis for an episode to do that in 0:44:17.960 --> 0:44:20.720 New World Order. I didn't redo it that we actually 0:44:20.760 --> 0:44:23.840 used the CD. We alone in the room, in the 0:44:23.920 --> 0:44:26.160 dressing room before that before he takes a ship, and 0:44:26.200 --> 0:44:27.680 I tell him I'm telling him getting a chance to 0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:29.840 tell Curtis. I mean, we knew each other over the 0:44:29.920 --> 0:44:33.040 years before that, but I had an opportunity to tell him, 0:44:33.239 --> 0:44:35.439 you what my main inspiration man to want to write. 0:44:37.000 --> 0:44:40.760 And for some reason there was a moment was nobody 0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:42.120 in the room but me and him. I don't even 0:44:42.160 --> 0:44:44.919 know how that happened. And I said, and I didn't 0:44:44.920 --> 0:44:47.120 really even have a right to ask him me. I said, Curtis, 0:44:48.840 --> 0:44:52.399 you paralyzed. I said, what do you miss most? And 0:44:52.520 --> 0:44:54.200 what right do I have that? I mean, you know, 0:44:54.239 --> 0:44:56.720 you think my guy says sax Or, I can't walk, 0:44:57.360 --> 0:44:59.440 you know, he told me man and I broke down 0:44:59.480 --> 0:45:02.399 in tears. He he said, man tooms, I can't play 0:45:02.440 --> 0:45:08.479 my guitar damn oh I know. Now fast forward again, 0:45:09.200 --> 0:45:12.120 about a year after he dies, I'm sitting at the crib. 0:45:13.040 --> 0:45:18.879 I get a call, uh from uh Warner Brothers said, 0:45:18.920 --> 0:45:21.920 somebody's here wants to talk to you. I don't know 0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:24.640 who it was. Put him on. It was Curtis's publicist 0:45:24.760 --> 0:45:27.239 who was there that night. She said, I too made. 0:45:27.239 --> 0:45:30.080 We've been trying to find you for over a year. 0:45:31.760 --> 0:45:35.719 Curtis when he died, told me to make sure that 0:45:36.920 --> 0:45:41.160 we thanked two people, you and Eric Clapton. I don't. 0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:43.680 I'm like, I don't want, I don't know what what 0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:45.680 to thank me? What are you talking about? He said? 0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:48.600 The last two weeks well, Curtis was making transition to death. 0:45:49.080 --> 0:45:50.840 He had us play his performance in New York on 0:45:50.880 --> 0:45:54.399 the cover over that helped him make his transition. And 0:45:54.440 --> 0:45:57.239 now I dropped the phone because I'm the man that 0:45:57.320 --> 0:45:58.000 inspired me. 0:45:58.560 --> 0:46:00.799 You inspired him, help him. 0:46:00.880 --> 0:46:04.839 I can't even say I helped him. But she said 0:46:04.920 --> 0:46:06.520 two people we wanted to think. I mean, can you 0:46:06.560 --> 0:46:12.360 imagine that cycle yes, getting yes, getting heavy in here, 0:46:13.880 --> 0:46:16.439 I say this and I didn't touch on this. Got 0:46:16.480 --> 0:46:21.400 Remember who I've lost? I lost Teddy, I lost Phyllis, 0:46:21.520 --> 0:46:24.160 I lost Donny Hathaway. I work with these people. 0:46:24.200 --> 0:46:56.840 Man, measure your soul, measure like aunt may name side 0:46:58.000 --> 0:46:58.800 should be. 0:47:00.640 --> 0:47:10.160 And I'm so happy you not together. 0:47:27.960 --> 0:47:45.480 No such thing as bad for I'll tell you you love. 0:47:45.680 --> 0:47:46.120 What's up? 0:47:47.200 --> 0:47:51.040 So, like I tell you question, vocals is my thing. 0:47:51.760 --> 0:47:53.400 That's that's why I have power to you. 0:47:53.440 --> 0:47:53.680 Brother. 0:47:54.520 --> 0:47:56.080 I can barely get through this episode. 0:47:56.320 --> 0:47:58.879 Look, that's why. Look vocals, that's why we're talking. Man, 0:47:59.280 --> 0:48:03.400 that's that's extra. So you know how you know that line. 0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:10.640 There's no denying. Okay, now Phyllis's used to Okay, that's 0:48:10.640 --> 0:48:14.319 the take. I ain't. I'm like, no, man, it's good, 0:48:14.680 --> 0:48:17.719 but there's something we can get better. I think we 0:48:17.760 --> 0:48:22.319 took that note maybe about four or five times. I did. 0:48:22.360 --> 0:48:24.719 It's just something because I heard I was gonna put 0:48:24.719 --> 0:48:27.880 an extra reverb on it and let it just melt. 0:48:28.400 --> 0:48:30.160 And then when you listen to that mix, it just 0:48:30.160 --> 0:48:39.280 goes so after she finished it. Motherfucker's that it. That's 0:48:39.120 --> 0:48:41.800 a that's a classic story. A cat named David Nathan 0:48:41.880 --> 0:48:43.560 was there that night. He was right and just doing 0:48:43.560 --> 0:48:46.040 an article on Phyllis for Blues and Souls I think 0:48:46.040 --> 0:48:48.480 it was, and he talks about that moment, you know, 0:48:49.360 --> 0:48:53.440 and yeah, man, but that was phyllis. I loved it. 0:48:53.600 --> 0:48:56.520 I loved it. Now I'm gonna give you another story 0:48:56.560 --> 0:48:57.799 if you don't mind, y'all got your j'n. 0:48:57.840 --> 0:49:00.200 I got to make old man Roland hey Man keep going. 0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:01.360 Back together again. 0:49:03.880 --> 0:49:08.640 I don't know if we walked out here and we've 0:49:08.640 --> 0:49:09.960 been in the group chat Piers. 0:49:10.760 --> 0:49:15.880 We're working on that, Donny. Most people know, you know, 0:49:15.960 --> 0:49:21.960 had some mental challenges. You're emotional, and that night he 0:49:22.080 --> 0:49:27.440 was having he was struggling, you know, and he broke 0:49:27.520 --> 0:49:32.080 down and ran out the studio to the bathroom. So 0:49:32.120 --> 0:49:34.680 I go out of the control room and I opened 0:49:34.719 --> 0:49:39.480 the bathroom door. He's in the corner crying, I mean, sobbing. 0:49:40.160 --> 0:49:42.680 So I was like, oh my god. So I got 0:49:42.920 --> 0:49:45.440 I went down on the floor and kind of crawled 0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:49.120 up next to him. I said, brother, what's what's happening? 0:49:49.960 --> 0:49:53.120 He said to him, they trying to kill me. I said, who, 0:49:53.239 --> 0:49:55.279 He said, They're trying to kill me. They got my 0:49:55.320 --> 0:49:58.680 brain hooked up to a machine. Now I'm teared up. 0:49:59.520 --> 0:50:01.160 So I stayed in there with him for a few minutes. 0:50:01.680 --> 0:50:05.320 So I said, I'm gonna let him have his I said, look, Donnie, 0:50:05.520 --> 0:50:08.520 tell you what you when you feel like you're ready 0:50:08.560 --> 0:50:11.840 to take it, hit it, you know, just come on. 0:50:11.960 --> 0:50:14.680 So he came out. He tried it, and I knew 0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:18.279 he couldn't. I stopped the session. That was a Saturday night. 0:50:19.080 --> 0:50:21.920 I said, man, we just come back Monday, man, he said, tunes, 0:50:22.040 --> 0:50:27.680 I'll kill this. About five thirty that morning, phone rings, 0:50:27.719 --> 0:50:32.360 I pick up. Somebody's crying. I said, well, who's this? 0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:35.160 She said, this is Roberta. She said to him too, 0:50:35.520 --> 0:50:39.480 Donnie's dead. Wow, he jumped that night. 0:50:40.280 --> 0:50:40.560 Shit. 0:50:41.080 --> 0:50:45.480 So here's why I always emphasize that. Of everything I've 0:50:45.480 --> 0:50:48.479 been so fortunate to be involved with Back Together Again, 0:50:53.400 --> 0:50:57.400 it's the deepest piece. The last two songs that Donnie 0:50:57.400 --> 0:51:01.040 did Closer, I mean that were popular and Back Together Again. 0:51:01.160 --> 0:51:05.680 I had a part and this great artist, the last 0:51:05.680 --> 0:51:11.400 two songs he did I was involved with. What was 0:51:11.600 --> 0:51:14.239 so the vocal? What was the okay, just the trick. 0:51:14.880 --> 0:51:18.200 I'm telling you this, So Back Together Again wasn't finished. 0:51:20.080 --> 0:51:24.360 If you listen to this mix after I leave, Donnie 0:51:24.400 --> 0:51:27.440 only did the first uh no, the first yeah, the 0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:30.759 first release. We can uh make it better, try to 0:51:30.760 --> 0:51:30.960 make it. 0:51:31.040 --> 0:51:34.560 It got to be Wait, is it people. 0:51:35.520 --> 0:51:41.560 No, no, no, mess up, Yo, you're right here. Okay, listen. 0:51:43.760 --> 0:51:45.719 So back in the day, man, I mean, y'all have 0:51:45.840 --> 0:51:50.160 the advantage of technology. Wasn't no physically cut the tape 0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:53.080 with with with the razor blade. So what I did 0:51:53.320 --> 0:51:58.319 was make a copy of the first edited in the 0:51:58.440 --> 0:52:24.200 second time. That's the same performance. And if I didn't 0:52:24.200 --> 0:52:26.839 tell you that, you would have never known the other 0:52:26.960 --> 0:52:32.200 trick because he had died, we couldn't do it a tag. 0:52:33.400 --> 0:52:36.400 So when they come back, the only thing that's emphasized 0:52:38.000 --> 0:52:43.759 in the background the burden don't come back Donny, because 0:52:43.800 --> 0:52:48.000 I knew it would be stupid. So the whole tag, 0:52:48.440 --> 0:52:51.920 it is just the instrumental in the background being being manipulated. 0:52:52.000 --> 0:52:52.480 I would have. 0:52:52.520 --> 0:52:55.480 Never ever thought about that. 0:52:55.640 --> 0:52:57.840 Yo, how do we almost get this episode? 0:52:57.800 --> 0:53:02.080 And not a question? I just forgot that was did 0:53:02.120 --> 0:53:04.239 you do heavens? No? 0:53:03.800 --> 0:53:03.840 No? 0:53:04.040 --> 0:53:06.520 No, okay, okay, no, that that was wait before me. 0:53:08.040 --> 0:53:10.920 So just like I said, question, listen to that. And 0:53:10.960 --> 0:53:14.319 if I didn't tell you that, it just sounded like 0:53:14.520 --> 0:53:15.280 it was done. 0:53:15.200 --> 0:53:17.759 Like that, I mean without you being over analytical since 0:53:17.920 --> 0:53:23.360 since you kind of opened it. Because I know nothing 0:53:23.719 --> 0:53:28.920 about Donnie Hathaway as a person and that sort of thing. 0:53:29.000 --> 0:53:33.160 And I don't exactly as the greatest ever. 0:53:33.280 --> 0:53:35.759 And he hasn't been reduced to a footnote. There's not 0:53:35.800 --> 0:53:39.200 even a good documentary. Only he was every singer's favorite singer. 0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:44.600 Yeah, but yeah, I mean was he Was he a 0:53:44.640 --> 0:53:47.600 normal cat with a extraordinary voice? Was he an a 0:53:47.680 --> 0:53:48.359 centric cat? 0:53:48.880 --> 0:53:52.799 Well? Remember I meet him on the Closer. He had 0:53:52.840 --> 0:53:55.000 already had a couple of nervous breakdowns. 0:53:55.440 --> 0:53:57.120 I never knew none of that stuff. 0:53:57.200 --> 0:54:03.160 Yes, so here was the deep part. And then this 0:54:03.239 --> 0:54:05.080 is literally the first time I meet him. I'm at 0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:08.799 Roberta's apartment to come to Tombes. Come over and want 0:54:08.800 --> 0:54:11.160 you to meet Donnie. And we're talking. This is a 0:54:11.200 --> 0:54:14.560 literal thing. We're talking. He said tunes. Look at that gorilla, 0:54:15.440 --> 0:54:18.600 And I'm like, wow, how we gonna do a record? 0:54:19.239 --> 0:54:19.560 Okay? 0:54:19.960 --> 0:54:23.359 I sit down and played the song. He said, move over. 0:54:24.000 --> 0:54:28.120 I played it once he sat down, played the exact 0:54:28.280 --> 0:54:33.320 voicings of every quart. Then I realized he's a genius. 0:54:34.120 --> 0:54:37.400 He had photo that that thing. And then later I 0:54:37.440 --> 0:54:41.640 found out his roommate in at at Howard Leewill Hudson 0:54:42.160 --> 0:54:45.439 said he ran out and bought sketches in Spain when 0:54:45.440 --> 0:54:48.440 it came out, and then you had it, you know, 0:54:48.440 --> 0:54:51.439 we had the photograph. He played it down, he listened 0:54:51.440 --> 0:54:53.239 to it in one night. The next day he was 0:54:53.280 --> 0:54:57.200 playing all the cuts from sketches in Spain, so that's 0:54:57.200 --> 0:55:00.439 what he had. The communications was off when he said 0:55:00.480 --> 0:55:02.399 at the at the keyboard man or stepped in front 0:55:02.400 --> 0:55:05.680 of the mic. You heard it. You heard it. So 0:55:05.760 --> 0:55:08.040 I didn't know him other than that way. 0:55:09.520 --> 0:55:12.080 That's so interesting that both of them were mental illness. 0:55:13.960 --> 0:55:15.759 I was just saying Phyllis too. It's just interesting in 0:55:15.880 --> 0:55:16.800 two different kinds. 0:55:16.640 --> 0:55:19.880 Of Kenny called me when you know, when t when Phyllis, 0:55:19.920 --> 0:55:25.400 you know, took her life, and he told me she 0:55:25.600 --> 0:55:29.399 was obsessed with she was dated. She's all these young 0:55:29.440 --> 0:55:33.520 you know, she didn't think that the singers looked up 0:55:33.520 --> 0:55:35.239 to her, the m the Mary's and them. 0:55:35.280 --> 0:55:36.120 That's see it. 0:55:36.200 --> 0:55:38.440 It's funny you say that, cause I was just coming around, 0:55:38.520 --> 0:55:40.920 like learning who she was. Around the time that she passed. 0:55:40.960 --> 0:55:43.480 I think, don't wanna change the world, had just been 0:55:43.520 --> 0:55:45.600 a hit or whatever. So I was just getting into 0:55:45.600 --> 0:55:47.439 Phyllis and then like you know a few months later, 0:55:47.800 --> 0:55:49.359 I'm here, I'm gonna listen to the radio and they 0:55:49.360 --> 0:55:51.400 come over and saying, you know, singing philis Heimon is 0:55:51.440 --> 0:55:52.440 Yea is committed. 0:55:52.640 --> 0:55:55.640 You know, so we do it wasn't you know? I 0:55:55.680 --> 0:55:58.640 loved me? If you noticed there was never a second 0:55:58.680 --> 0:56:02.520 na to Maine Lucas production with Phyllis. Why was that? 0:56:02.560 --> 0:56:02.880 Clive? 0:56:03.239 --> 0:56:07.200 No, Clive was begging me, no, this is what happened. 0:56:11.440 --> 0:56:15.960 Clive was like, I took what I took the record 0:56:15.960 --> 0:56:18.360 to him and planning it for him. He spins around, 0:56:18.480 --> 0:56:21.520 and look, I respect Clive cause he's serious about the music. 0:56:21.880 --> 0:56:25.200 So he spins around and he's got back to us. 0:56:25.239 --> 0:56:27.919 You know. I give him the the the the dat 0:56:27.960 --> 0:56:32.239 to play listen to the whole album every song. He 0:56:32.320 --> 0:56:35.000 spins back around. He said, well, I'm too may me 0:56:35.080 --> 0:56:37.080 and registered he's he said, I'm too many personally, I'm 0:56:37.120 --> 0:56:42.640 a little disappointed. Alright, So so what I went through 0:56:42.640 --> 0:56:47.520 the mars, I don't care. I told him right there. 0:56:47.520 --> 0:56:49.640 I said, man, that's fine, I don't care. I said, 0:56:49.640 --> 0:56:51.320 I'll tell you what. This would be the biggest record 0:56:51.320 --> 0:56:55.319 she's ever had. The record comes out, it is out 0:56:55.320 --> 0:56:58.040 for two weeks. I'm let I'm at the crib. I 0:56:58.080 --> 0:57:01.160 get a call from Phyllis's manager. I forgot the brother's name. 0:57:01.160 --> 0:57:03.359 He's passed, but I knew him. He was a friend 0:57:03.360 --> 0:57:06.719 of Indugal's. He's the original cat that called me about Hey, man, 0:57:06.760 --> 0:57:09.240 maybe we can do he said. There was an interview 0:57:09.280 --> 0:57:11.399 that came out. He said, I'm calling you man because 0:57:11.400 --> 0:57:13.560 we cool. I don't want nobody else to tell you. 0:57:13.960 --> 0:57:15.840 I forgot the name of the magazine. He said, go 0:57:15.880 --> 0:57:18.840 get it. Phillis did an interview, man, and he said, 0:57:19.240 --> 0:57:23.800 and she's dogging you, I was saying, And I was like, 0:57:24.400 --> 0:57:26.080 so you know me. I jumped in the car, man, 0:57:26.080 --> 0:57:27.640 I shoot, go get it. I had to come over 0:57:27.640 --> 0:57:30.920 to New York. I didn't I get back to the crib. 0:57:32.520 --> 0:57:35.520 It was one of them things. The cat doing the 0:57:35.560 --> 0:57:39.160 interview was into I hate this. You know, he's doing 0:57:39.160 --> 0:57:42.200 this R and B. I expected more jazz, and Phillis 0:57:42.240 --> 0:57:44.800 kind of played into it. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. 0:57:44.920 --> 0:57:46.640 You know, but I too, May has his way, you know. 0:57:47.240 --> 0:57:49.920 I wanted to use my musicians and my background singers, 0:57:50.040 --> 0:57:53.760 but he has this system. Yeah, most people do, you know? 0:57:55.480 --> 0:57:58.640 And I read it, man, And I never was angry 0:57:59.160 --> 0:58:02.560 with Phillis. But what I knew was I couldn't do 0:58:02.600 --> 0:58:05.360 another record because I couldn't write for you. How can 0:58:05.400 --> 0:58:08.800 I write for you? And I know your original vibe is. 0:58:09.520 --> 0:58:11.520 You don't believe it. Yeah, you don't trust me. 0:58:11.720 --> 0:58:19.440 Fortunately about four weeks later. Okay, but what is the 0:58:19.440 --> 0:58:23.919 point I'm making? See, producers, you can always produce somebody else. 0:58:24.280 --> 0:58:26.800 An artist has to live on the successful failure of 0:58:26.880 --> 0:58:29.440 that record. That's how they work, that's how they get bookings. 0:58:29.680 --> 0:58:32.640 And I just knew I couldn't put my heart in it. 0:58:32.680 --> 0:58:35.040 So rather than do a BS record and look, it 0:58:35.160 --> 0:58:38.040 was some big paper on the table, it wasn't. 0:58:38.080 --> 0:58:42.959 It's just it so, I mean, not in retrospect, even 0:58:43.000 --> 0:58:47.480 after the fact that the records are proven hit. You know, 0:58:47.600 --> 0:58:51.880 you guys never spoke after that, like, hey, no, Phyllis 0:58:51.880 --> 0:58:54.120 called me. We got some magic, so should we? 0:58:54.440 --> 0:58:57.280 But okay, what's the magic? We did it? The magic 0:58:57.360 --> 0:58:59.920 was captured, but I know you didn't. 0:59:00.600 --> 0:59:03.440 Maybe she was just scared. See, well, that's that's what 0:59:03.480 --> 0:59:05.440 I'm want to ask. You were geniuses, and I know 0:59:05.480 --> 0:59:08.800 again we rarely put women in the genius category or whatever. 0:59:08.920 --> 0:59:13.680 We over use the word. But you know, artists are 0:59:13.760 --> 0:59:18.600 so troubled and you you, I mean you went through 0:59:18.640 --> 0:59:20.480 a slew of them, so I'm certain that to get 0:59:20.520 --> 0:59:24.000 the magic performance you got to observe them and their 0:59:24.040 --> 0:59:27.320 hanger onto the break room, whatever drug activity. 0:59:28.000 --> 0:59:30.960 First of all, on vocals, my rule was, there's nobody 0:59:31.000 --> 0:59:35.680 in this room. Nobody, because I tell you the vocal. 0:59:36.320 --> 0:59:40.400 When you're doing vocals, that's when the microscope and if 0:59:41.040 --> 0:59:44.840 if you singing and you're looking through that glass, you're performing. 0:59:45.320 --> 0:59:47.720 If people in there, you can't help it. I don't 0:59:47.720 --> 0:59:52.200 want to performance, I want to delivery. So nobody's ever 0:59:52.240 --> 0:59:54.280 allowed to be in there, so you don't have that 0:59:54.400 --> 0:59:59.520 distraction on vocals, makes sense, That's so that's that's the 0:59:59.560 --> 1:00:01.080 first time i' heard the scribe that way, because I've 1:00:01.080 --> 1:00:02.960 heard so many other producers say that they're trying to 1:00:03.000 --> 1:00:06.280 capture a performance. But I'm not trying to capture, man, 1:00:06.280 --> 1:00:12.600 I'm trying to deliver delivery, you know. C O D. 1:00:14.000 --> 1:00:21.160 There you go? Did we miss anything? 1:00:22.160 --> 1:00:22.360 Now? 1:00:22.440 --> 1:00:25.680 Now I'm afraid to wrap it up because okay, so 1:00:26.200 --> 1:00:28.400 was it true that Wrigley tried to come after you? 1:00:29.360 --> 1:00:32.040 Yeah, they want to sue me. Wait what juicy fruit? 1:00:33.440 --> 1:00:36.120 So wait, how did time out? How did you know 1:00:36.160 --> 1:00:38.320 about this from your. 1:00:43.000 --> 1:00:45.960 In Japan. I think it's the first time I mentioned 1:00:45.960 --> 1:00:47.920 it public because I said, I don't there's not a 1:00:47.920 --> 1:00:51.520 lot of take don't tape the stuff of me. So 1:00:52.440 --> 1:00:57.680 I get a call, big big law firm represented Wriggleyes. 1:00:59.200 --> 1:00:59.880 So I gotta go up. 1:01:00.160 --> 1:01:00.280 Man. 1:01:00.280 --> 1:01:02.120 I walk in this room. Man the table as long 1:01:02.200 --> 1:01:08.200 as this block, I mean, lawyers on both sides. So 1:01:08.240 --> 1:01:10.360 they going through. They got the album cover, they're going 1:01:10.400 --> 1:01:13.400 through all this. So they start questioning me, and you 1:01:13.440 --> 1:01:15.320 showed up with no no lawyer. I didn't need nothing 1:01:15.320 --> 1:01:17.040 cause I knew WHEREY was gonna go and I had 1:01:17.120 --> 1:01:20.840 check made it. I knew where I was going. Uh so, 1:01:21.840 --> 1:01:27.120 because I knew ultimately it was gonna get to mister 1:01:27.560 --> 1:01:33.280 to me, what do you mean when you say you 1:01:33.360 --> 1:01:37.080 can lick me everywhere? I said, well, obviously it's not 1:01:37.120 --> 1:01:42.160 about gum. I said, it's about all sex. I ain't 1:01:42.160 --> 1:01:45.120 never seen some of red faces in my life. That 1:01:45.240 --> 1:01:48.760 was the end of the interview for me. It was like, okay, okay, 1:01:49.080 --> 1:01:52.280 please leave. You know, but I understood where they was 1:01:52.280 --> 1:01:53.880 going and I knew I just knew what they was 1:01:53.920 --> 1:01:56.320 gonna say. But it ain't know, you know, and that 1:01:56.880 --> 1:01:59.160 I hate to even keep talking about that line, but 1:01:59.280 --> 1:02:01.440 y'all have no idea d how crazy it was. We 1:02:01.440 --> 1:02:06.240 couldn't even cut the video. They made me yes, And 1:02:06.280 --> 1:02:09.800 I hated that because Epic was just so scared of that. 1:02:10.280 --> 1:02:13.000 And at that time, one of the things I was 1:02:13.000 --> 1:02:16.600 proud of we as far as single sales, we were 1:02:16.640 --> 1:02:19.600 doing what Michael was doing with that record, and that 1:02:19.640 --> 1:02:24.320 record really never crossed over to pop and my my 1:02:24.360 --> 1:02:27.280 thing is man. And remember that was also the beginning 1:02:28.000 --> 1:02:31.240 of black videos where you had to People will tell 1:02:31.320 --> 1:02:34.240 you had to take them some of the blackout and 1:02:34.320 --> 1:02:36.720 I never did that. And when we did, you mean, 1:02:37.320 --> 1:02:39.480 you mean he turn that off of here? 1:02:40.160 --> 1:02:40.280 Right? 1:02:41.200 --> 1:02:43.960 We go? Okay, I go through the struggles of hiring 1:02:43.960 --> 1:02:50.000 a black production team to do you mean he we 1:02:50.040 --> 1:02:51.880 walk out on the set the first day we flew 1:02:51.920 --> 1:02:54.680 out to California to do it. In the audience, it's 1:02:54.760 --> 1:02:58.160 eighty five percent white people couples and about fifteen percent 1:02:58.200 --> 1:03:01.240 black couples. I said, look, man, I got to be 1:03:01.280 --> 1:03:03.200 honest to my audience. I said, you don't see Bruce 1:03:03.240 --> 1:03:07.520 Springsteen singing, you know, brother, you know eighty five percent? 1:03:07.800 --> 1:03:10.640 I said, be honest to your audience. And so I said, man, 1:03:10.680 --> 1:03:13.280 we gotta shoot do it tomorrow. The cat said no, Man, 1:03:13.320 --> 1:03:15.160 well you know, I said, well, I'll pay for it. 1:03:15.520 --> 1:03:17.560 We ain't do it. I'm not doing this to the 1:03:17.560 --> 1:03:21.040 people that loved our music. So we never did that. 1:03:21.840 --> 1:03:24.240 I watched a lot of groups to try to get 1:03:24.240 --> 1:03:26.200 on MTV, and only other voice that was out there 1:03:26.240 --> 1:03:29.400 with that was Rick James. MTV wouldn't play any black 1:03:29.480 --> 1:03:33.520 videos until you know the famous thing when the Epics 1:03:33.520 --> 1:03:36.840 Sony said they pull all their videos if they didn't 1:03:36.840 --> 1:03:40.480 play Billy Jean. That's how crazy it was. But I 1:03:40.480 --> 1:03:43.720 saw a lot of cats. The music got real square. 1:03:43.880 --> 1:03:47.160 You tell the truth. Because back when, like I used 1:03:47.160 --> 1:03:51.400 to be really addicted to Lee Bailey's radio score letscope, Yeah, 1:03:51.440 --> 1:03:57.120 and uh, I remember there really being a man just 1:03:57.200 --> 1:04:02.000 like an instant backlash of like when Cameo really started 1:04:02.000 --> 1:04:02.439 to get their. 1:04:02.360 --> 1:04:04.880 Pop shit on word up and. 1:04:04.320 --> 1:04:08.080 Especially with the Candy video, Like people were calling Lee 1:04:08.160 --> 1:04:11.880 Bailey complaining like, how come no brothers, how come little 1:04:11.920 --> 1:04:12.840 sisters in these videos? 1:04:12.840 --> 1:04:14.880 And oh no, that was a no no, that was 1:04:14.920 --> 1:04:17.680 a no no. Now. Look and I'll tell you that now, 1:04:17.800 --> 1:04:22.560 Juicy Fruit, there was barely any black videos. The only 1:04:22.600 --> 1:04:26.200 place I saw black videos was what's the Brother Ralph? Yeah, 1:04:26.920 --> 1:04:30.040 and you had to have that was Channel Video thirty one. 1:04:30.360 --> 1:04:33.200 But when we did Juicy Flu, we was on tour. 1:04:33.240 --> 1:04:35.280 We flew in cut that like a d a day 1:04:36.160 --> 1:04:39.800 and I wasn't into the complexion. That didn't matter, and 1:04:39.840 --> 1:04:45.960 it's it's just like non racial looking a woman. And 1:04:46.000 --> 1:04:48.240 I said, well, okay, what we're doing this video? Boom? 1:04:48.800 --> 1:04:53.160 Then I noticed that was really what started being And 1:04:53.200 --> 1:04:56.400 my daughter came to me, Benian, my youngest daughter, she 1:04:56.520 --> 1:04:59.920 was about five or six. One day she said, Baba, 1:05:00.120 --> 1:05:03.920 you know that's father. And she said, I guess I 1:05:03.920 --> 1:05:07.920 can't be in no videos because she's chocolate. And she 1:05:08.040 --> 1:05:14.000 was referring to a prince. She said, everything I see, well, no, no, 1:05:14.040 --> 1:05:17.160 I'm not saying no, you ain't right, but I mean 1:05:17.200 --> 1:05:22.000 I'm saying that became the thing for this bullshit they 1:05:22.040 --> 1:05:26.040 call crossover. I said, this is bullshit crossover and can't 1:05:26.080 --> 1:05:28.800 get black. That's what's happening here. It ain't getting back. 1:05:28.840 --> 1:05:31.600 You can't get black because why do blacks have to 1:05:31.640 --> 1:05:35.240 always cross over? I mean, I said, you don't ask 1:05:35.240 --> 1:05:39.120 the Rolling Stones man, you know, they got to do funk. 1:05:39.440 --> 1:05:43.720 Although they were funky, but all that onus was on 1:05:43.840 --> 1:05:45.600 us and I spoke out on it and it was like, 1:05:45.920 --> 1:05:47.640 oh man, this cat is out. No, it wasn't, Dad. 1:05:48.320 --> 1:05:51.640 This is the truth. This is the truth, the truth. 1:05:51.800 --> 1:05:56.560 And so you mean he obviously there's a brown skinned 1:05:56.560 --> 1:05:59.520 woman in the lead. And I did that on purpose 1:06:00.320 --> 1:06:03.000 and it was awful because a lot of young sisters 1:06:03.320 --> 1:06:07.360 got messed up. And I helped Nelson did a book 1:06:07.400 --> 1:06:11.480 called The Deaths of Rhythm and Blues, and uh, I 1:06:11.560 --> 1:06:14.439 was you know, we were talking a lot during that time. 1:06:14.680 --> 1:06:19.200 Videos helped kill arm b man, not kill it, you know, literally, 1:06:19.200 --> 1:06:23.480 but it was like the visual became on in the audience. 1:06:24.200 --> 1:06:28.600 You know, I said, man, so, so what slid Stone 1:06:28.640 --> 1:06:31.080 and how he looked al green, how he looked No, 1:06:31.760 --> 1:06:34.480 it's how they made us feel. Then it became your 1:06:34.520 --> 1:06:37.840 brand and I got a thing with that. It's funny 1:06:37.880 --> 1:06:39.760 you mentioned that because the thing that I remember the 1:06:39.840 --> 1:06:41.720 most as a kid, because usually fruit came out. I 1:06:41.760 --> 1:06:43.760 think I was like eighty four eighty, so I was four, 1:06:44.960 --> 1:06:46.960 So I remember that record and the thing I can 1:06:47.000 --> 1:06:50.560 remember was the braids and like the on the braids 1:06:50.600 --> 1:06:53.000 and how the thing I was I was looking at 1:06:53.000 --> 1:06:57.280 I was like, man, they ain't got Jerry Curls was 1:06:57.280 --> 1:07:00.440 like yo, I was like, I'm fucking with this already. 1:07:00.920 --> 1:07:04.840 It was so funny man, because they played us, they 1:07:04.840 --> 1:07:09.800 played us in the movie Biggie movie. Oh it was 1:07:10.080 --> 1:07:14.880 Rick James looking. I said, I bit that, but that 1:07:14.960 --> 1:07:17.000 was like a rough because Duatha called me when she saw. 1:07:20.800 --> 1:07:26.120 So being as being as though I guess some almost 1:07:26.200 --> 1:07:30.960 twenty plus, almost twenty five years later, Uh, the aftermath 1:07:31.440 --> 1:07:37.360 of Juicy and what it's meant to the hip hop generation. 1:07:38.040 --> 1:07:42.680 Whereas now you know, people hear Biggie's voice yeah, as 1:07:42.720 --> 1:07:45.560 the default version before they even think of the original. 1:07:45.320 --> 1:07:48.160 Didn't know most of them didn't even know the original. 1:07:47.880 --> 1:07:53.720 Right, So with Uh, as many times as that song 1:07:53.760 --> 1:08:01.800 has been interpolated and sampled, is it at least the 1:08:02.000 --> 1:08:05.280 the I know, the myth of the I'm always hearing 1:08:05.320 --> 1:08:07.880 these guys on doing interviews or whatever, like Steely Dan 1:08:08.240 --> 1:08:12.520 might make a joke about like that sort of thing. 1:08:13.520 --> 1:08:17.840 Is it is? And I'm not exact figure whatever, but 1:08:18.120 --> 1:08:21.400 is the myth true of like, hey, just one great 1:08:21.479 --> 1:08:26.479 hit that's used by the Juicy has been the least 1:08:26.560 --> 1:08:29.680 using ninety maybe a hundred plus Yeah. 1:08:29.880 --> 1:08:34.360 My favorite version was Akisha Coles missing Yeah, let it go, yo, man, 1:08:34.680 --> 1:08:37.840 I don't know the playing, but I should will on you. 1:08:37.880 --> 1:08:41.000 I don't want you men? How n the stand by 1:08:41.080 --> 1:08:52.759 you stay home mad? I can't explain many times I trush, 1:08:53.120 --> 1:09:03.519 how many times I crashed thinking about mine wings, couldn't 1:09:03.560 --> 1:09:04.920 get it down. 1:09:06.320 --> 1:09:13.200 Someone in love compound don't want love you the right 1:09:13.280 --> 1:09:22.520 way anyways? 1:09:25.400 --> 1:09:29.920 So do you have to for each time that song's 1:09:30.920 --> 1:09:34.400 do you have to determine the percentage that you wanted 1:09:34.400 --> 1:09:34.800 that song? 1:09:35.280 --> 1:09:35.360 Like? 1:09:35.360 --> 1:09:36.400 Whereas okay, if. 1:09:36.439 --> 1:09:39.360 Depended you know what depended on how much of it 1:09:39.400 --> 1:09:43.240 they use? The thing that was interesting about Juicy, Like 1:09:43.320 --> 1:09:46.080 I said when I wrote it, the beat wasn't the 1:09:46.120 --> 1:09:50.879 main thing, but if you think about it, it's probably 1:09:51.120 --> 1:09:54.559 the most identifiable beat in R and B. 1:09:55.080 --> 1:09:59.160 My favorite use of it was one guy. 1:09:59.080 --> 1:10:02.720 Yeah God, that was That was That was the That 1:10:02.800 --> 1:10:05.160 was the first version, I mean the first time. 1:10:05.080 --> 1:10:07.800 That it was sample was twice right, because he used 1:10:07.800 --> 1:10:10.479 it twice on that you see. Matter of fact, he 1:10:10.720 --> 1:10:13.960 was a three times twice? Isn't this dj? Oh my god? 1:10:14.000 --> 1:10:15.880 He used to three times on the album. 1:10:15.920 --> 1:10:18.200 This DJ was a different This DJ was twice on 1:10:18.320 --> 1:10:23.519 that first. Oh yeah he did, okay, yeah, okay, welcome 1:10:23.560 --> 1:10:28.800 for the uh like the West Coast really taking it 1:10:28.880 --> 1:10:33.679 the West Coast really, I always felt the West Coast 1:10:34.320 --> 1:10:37.439 hip hop was funk. Yeah, you're more so than the East. 1:10:38.360 --> 1:10:40.920 He just more jazz, yeah yeah, and more fun. 1:10:40.840 --> 1:10:44.719 And so they vibed right away. And I always think, 1:10:45.600 --> 1:10:48.000 young people, this is how I found out that I 1:10:48.040 --> 1:10:50.720 think we had something with Juicy. I'm I'm sitting at 1:10:50.720 --> 1:10:53.280 the create a cat named Scott Folks who helped them 1:10:53.320 --> 1:10:57.280 the remix twelve inches and back then twelve inch meant 1:10:57.560 --> 1:11:00.320 you're still using the original, you ain't bringing the other 1:11:00.720 --> 1:11:04.640 or redoing it, and yeah, you just is extended. And 1:11:04.680 --> 1:11:07.080 he said, Man, Tunes, I want you to come with 1:11:07.160 --> 1:11:09.680 me to this club up in the Bronx. It was 1:11:10.040 --> 1:11:14.080 with grand Master Spunk, the first hip hop club, the Roxy. 1:11:15.040 --> 1:11:16.960 So he said, man, can you come this weekend? I 1:11:16.960 --> 1:11:18.920 said yeah, Man, he said, I'm gonna come and pick 1:11:18.960 --> 1:11:20.400 you up. I said, but you want to be ready 1:11:20.439 --> 1:11:21.800 around ten He said no. 1:11:22.160 --> 1:11:23.240 Round three. 1:11:25.760 --> 1:11:27.840 He said, man, I'm gonna take you. Man. He said, man, 1:11:28.120 --> 1:11:31.320 they spend Juicy around four thirty. I want you to 1:11:31.360 --> 1:11:36.360 see the hip hop generation's response to it. I never 1:11:36.360 --> 1:11:39.680 thought that you could dance the juicy or just and 1:11:39.760 --> 1:11:42.439 the floor just And I said, it's just that you 1:11:42.520 --> 1:11:43.040 write something. 1:11:45.160 --> 1:11:46.200 He was making a ballot. 1:11:46.439 --> 1:11:47.960 No, I thought I was making this. 1:11:49.160 --> 1:11:50.160 It's kind of a chill out. 1:11:51.040 --> 1:11:54.000 Yeah it's a barberie you see. Yeah, this late, But 1:11:54.600 --> 1:12:03.000 I'm into these chords. 1:12:00.120 --> 1:12:04.040 Right in your head? Is Juicy a ballot with some 1:12:04.760 --> 1:12:05.200 behind it? 1:12:05.439 --> 1:12:08.720 No, it's it's my, it's it's it's my. It's my 1:12:08.800 --> 1:12:11.719 speed zone, mid temple fi, mid tempo funk. 1:12:12.200 --> 1:12:16.519 But as you're creating it, are you you're just thinking like, Okay, 1:12:16.560 --> 1:12:18.240 there's some filler on the album. 1:12:18.080 --> 1:12:21.679 Or no, Like we had finished the album. The album 1:12:21.880 --> 1:12:25.320 was done. I had cut this, all the songs. I said. 1:12:25.360 --> 1:12:29.880 What happened was that night everybody went back home. I 1:12:29.920 --> 1:12:33.200 called everybody back up. After I laid that. Somebody came 1:12:33.240 --> 1:12:35.639 back about one o'clock in the morning. We cut that 1:12:35.960 --> 1:12:36.760 cut it that night. 1:12:37.320 --> 1:12:37.799 Literally. 1:12:38.439 --> 1:12:43.840 One thing, one rule I have when I'm writing, whatever 1:12:44.680 --> 1:12:47.920 hook that comes to my head, that's always the first hook. 1:12:47.960 --> 1:12:50.840 That's the hook. And I'm listening back as we laid it, 1:12:51.320 --> 1:12:55.479 I said, Juicy, sometimes what I like to do now 1:12:55.560 --> 1:12:58.040 that record, Twatha was on tour. Was still with U 1:12:59.320 --> 1:13:00.000 Roxy Music. 1:13:00.280 --> 1:13:00.719 Oh wow. 1:13:01.280 --> 1:13:03.479 She was in Europe, damn. So we had a couple 1:13:03.479 --> 1:13:08.439 of days off some fluor back from uh London. So 1:13:08.520 --> 1:13:11.800 we cut the vocals that night. I'm writing a verse 1:13:12.880 --> 1:13:16.799 as she's performing, like the first verse. So she's performing 1:13:16.840 --> 1:13:18.560 it and I'm writing the second verse. I said, I 1:13:18.600 --> 1:13:20.760 wanted to put some pressure on myself. I wrote the 1:13:20.840 --> 1:13:26.000 lyrics literally that night while she's singing, h we you know, 1:13:26.040 --> 1:13:29.439 we wrapped it up. She flew back, you know, and 1:13:30.680 --> 1:13:33.320 you know is that you uh? Is that your voice? 1:13:33.439 --> 1:13:33.840 I needed? 1:13:34.280 --> 1:13:34.519 Girl? 1:13:40.360 --> 1:13:43.320 We had so much. If you notice, I would do 1:13:43.400 --> 1:13:46.840 these little outtakes like when you me and he it's 1:13:46.920 --> 1:13:48.400 the monogamy mix. 1:13:49.680 --> 1:13:52.479 Uh, just to reiterate, yeah. 1:13:52.439 --> 1:13:57.479 So we just let that do do do bitter, but 1:13:57.560 --> 1:14:00.200 do do do? I said, look, man, let's just go 1:14:00.280 --> 1:14:02.679 in and just freestyle like we're talking. 1:14:03.960 --> 1:14:04.160 You know. 1:14:05.560 --> 1:14:06.719 Well uh. 1:14:08.120 --> 1:14:09.960 Oh man, Look, I just want to thank this is 1:14:10.080 --> 1:14:12.240 such I want to thank y'all so much. This has 1:14:12.320 --> 1:14:13.960 been This is this is. 1:14:14.000 --> 1:14:17.400 Layer layers upon layers upon layers of wisdom that you've 1:14:17.400 --> 1:14:18.000 given us. 1:14:17.880 --> 1:14:20.840 And well that was given to me. I ain't got nothing, man, 1:14:21.520 --> 1:14:24.599 You're challenged, but I'm challenging. Man, look all the cats 1:14:24.680 --> 1:14:26.880 that was blessed to be around. 1:14:26.680 --> 1:14:29.519 Man Fronte, what did you learn today? 1:14:29.560 --> 1:14:29.640 Bro? 1:14:29.960 --> 1:14:36.720 Oh my god, he's like a walking sage. It's so 1:14:36.880 --> 1:14:39.800 much like so much game. Like I hope people like 1:14:39.840 --> 1:14:42.160 really listen to this interview. And it's not even it's 1:14:42.240 --> 1:14:44.360 I mean, you're talking music, but it applies just to 1:14:44.439 --> 1:14:46.519 life life, you know what I mean. Like, it's not even, 1:14:46.800 --> 1:14:50.240 it just applies to so many things. I'm just listening to. Yeah, Man, 1:14:50.439 --> 1:14:51.960 just thank you, just thank you for the music. 1:14:52.000 --> 1:14:53.080 I grew up on your music. 1:14:53.240 --> 1:14:55.800 I've been a lifetime longtime fans. 1:14:55.520 --> 1:14:57.519 You know, and thank you. And like I said, man, 1:14:57.640 --> 1:15:00.240 it just needs to be more of this exchange of 1:15:00.320 --> 1:15:01.400 generational information. 1:15:01.520 --> 1:15:04.840 Man on pay Bill, what did you learn this episode? 1:15:04.880 --> 1:15:07.040 I would say for an atheist, that was very religious 1:15:07.040 --> 1:15:11.320 experience I learned. Are you ready? 1:15:11.600 --> 1:15:14.000 Yeah? Stop playing what you know, play what you don't know? 1:15:14.960 --> 1:15:21.000 Simplexity, Yeah, Webster's lookout, no leaning right now. We got 1:15:21.040 --> 1:15:23.840 half a glass of music, which I love. And every 1:15:23.880 --> 1:15:27.759 height is a nursery rhyme, which is my fucking life. Literally, 1:15:29.360 --> 1:15:31.720 Uh I remember your name? 1:15:32.080 --> 1:15:36.519 Yeah, I reiterate with both of both of them. Said, 1:15:36.560 --> 1:15:42.160 and the successful transition from jazz to R and B 1:15:42.240 --> 1:15:44.719 the natural transition at. 1:15:44.520 --> 1:15:47.680 That exact moment, uh, you know. 1:15:47.840 --> 1:15:50.639 Unforced because you see a lot of bands and artists 1:15:50.680 --> 1:15:52.320 try and keep up with the time so forth. But 1:15:52.360 --> 1:15:54.519 it seemed like you were at the right age, maybe 1:15:54.560 --> 1:15:57.400 at the right time, with the right amount of experience 1:15:57.920 --> 1:16:02.120 to do it legitimately, to do R and B with 1:16:02.120 --> 1:16:05.559 with real musicality and with with jazz in it. 1:16:06.200 --> 1:16:07.599 So yeah, that's pretty cool. 1:16:08.439 --> 1:16:09.760 Boss, Bill. W did you learn today? 1:16:09.800 --> 1:16:09.960 Man? 1:16:10.439 --> 1:16:13.040 I learned that so many great moments in music history 1:16:13.080 --> 1:16:17.320 you just seem to happen is afterthoughts, Like you know, 1:16:17.560 --> 1:16:19.559 Juicy Fruit, which is I was telling the mirror before 1:16:19.600 --> 1:16:21.000 we started. It's one of the first songs I ever 1:16:21.040 --> 1:16:25.280 remember hearing as a kid like that an Atomic Dogs. 1:16:25.320 --> 1:16:27.920 So who knows, that's probably why I turned out the 1:16:27.920 --> 1:16:30.360 way I did. But yeah, it just seems like it's 1:16:30.360 --> 1:16:33.160 it's fascinating how like we hear all these stories about 1:16:33.520 --> 1:16:36.519 these songs and these these these moments that we we've 1:16:36.600 --> 1:16:40.559 kind of come to to fetishize, you know, in our lives, 1:16:40.560 --> 1:16:42.320 and it just turns out they were just kind of 1:16:42.320 --> 1:16:43.960 throwaway moments in most people's lives. 1:16:44.080 --> 1:16:46.639 You weren't really thinking about it. You just did it. 1:16:46.560 --> 1:16:49.920 And you went on with it and changed the change 1:16:49.960 --> 1:16:53.280 the world. So I think that's something that's that's good 1:16:53.320 --> 1:16:55.800 to always keep keep in mind, is you know, you 1:16:55.840 --> 1:16:57.880 never really know what you're doing until after you've done it. 1:16:58.560 --> 1:17:01.599 And the people, the people de tming that. You know, 1:17:02.120 --> 1:17:05.720 music don't come from you, it comes through you. You know. 1:17:05.840 --> 1:17:09.559 I always equated, like you're watching the television, those images 1:17:09.560 --> 1:17:12.240 are not coming from that box. It's the signals that 1:17:12.240 --> 1:17:16.599 that box is picking up. So I never was challenged 1:17:16.640 --> 1:17:19.840 with the ego thing. And plus, man, look who I 1:17:19.840 --> 1:17:23.000 played with? How dare I even think? Look, I ain't 1:17:23.040 --> 1:17:27.120 did nothing, man, compared to the cats that raised me. Man, 1:17:28.200 --> 1:17:29.680 then that's how you got to look at it. I 1:17:29.720 --> 1:17:33.320 see cats get a hit and trip, and if you know, 1:17:33.520 --> 1:17:35.920 if you don't put the work in, the worst thing 1:17:35.920 --> 1:17:38.960 in the world is a one hit wonder. Because you 1:17:39.000 --> 1:17:40.599 get a hit, you don't know how to get back there, 1:17:40.600 --> 1:17:42.000 because you ain't got no railroad tracks. 1:17:43.439 --> 1:17:55.200 Damn everybody to go back and listen to this episode 1:17:55.360 --> 1:18:01.960 A creative process, intuition into technique and everything. Just coffee table. 1:18:03.320 --> 1:18:06.920 One last story, Yes, real quick one more story, one 1:18:06.920 --> 1:18:08.720 more story, because I just thought about this while y'all 1:18:08.720 --> 1:18:11.200 were talking, and I appreciate everything y'all said, Man, I 1:18:11.200 --> 1:18:15.200 really do. How many songs could get lost? The close 1:18:15.280 --> 1:18:18.360 I Get to You? Roberta invites me over to the 1:18:18.400 --> 1:18:23.240 listening session. I'm an urticant is there. I'm sitting on 1:18:23.240 --> 1:18:26.280 the couch, you know, and I'm just nobody, you know. 1:18:27.800 --> 1:18:30.280 He listens to the whole album. It's the President of Atlantic, 1:18:31.280 --> 1:18:35.120 true honest to God's story. He says, I love everything, 1:18:35.479 --> 1:18:39.240 but the closes I Get to You. To this day, 1:18:39.760 --> 1:18:43.519 I always thank Roberta because she rumbled. I heard it. 1:18:43.560 --> 1:18:46.519 They went out in the hallway, it got loud. To 1:18:46.600 --> 1:18:48.679 keep it on the album? He wanted to take it off. 1:18:48.960 --> 1:18:51.080 He said, I'll never forget. When he came back, he said, 1:18:51.080 --> 1:18:56.040 it's boring and repetious. Okay, So he comes back in 1:18:56.120 --> 1:18:59.200 and says, all right, we'll keep it on, but it's 1:18:59.240 --> 1:19:02.120 never be a single. Name me the first single off 1:19:02.120 --> 1:19:05.240 that album close Close, No, No, it wasn't the first thing. 1:19:05.320 --> 1:19:06.559 Oh that's what it is. 1:19:08.320 --> 1:19:10.320 It was first single still deep. 1:19:10.640 --> 1:19:17.479 No, you can't you've heard this point technically, Tell me 1:19:17.479 --> 1:19:18.439 what was the first song. 1:19:18.439 --> 1:19:21.800 I don't even remember. Yeah, I think in real life 1:19:21.880 --> 1:19:22.960 you can look this up right now. I think it 1:19:22.960 --> 1:19:25.519 was something called the twenty fourth of December. Oh yeah, 1:19:25.560 --> 1:19:27.639 and I said that'll be over on the twenty fifth. 1:19:30.120 --> 1:19:31.280 That is the correct answer. 1:19:32.360 --> 1:19:35.280 So so the album back then, you know, the album 1:19:35.320 --> 1:19:37.599 comes like six or seven weeks after the first single. 1:19:38.400 --> 1:19:42.599 When the album dropped, the DJ's demanded close. 1:19:44.280 --> 1:19:46.000 Get this man a star on the Philly Walker fang. 1:19:46.120 --> 1:19:46.720 That's another thing. 1:19:47.000 --> 1:19:49.519 Yeah, that's oh yeah. I was going to say that 1:19:50.080 --> 1:19:55.080 I learned that you're from Philadelphia and nobody knows. Most 1:19:55.080 --> 1:19:57.480 Philadelphians don't know you're from Philadelphia. 1:19:57.520 --> 1:20:02.479 Do you think that is because you're quiet? I will absolutely. 1:20:03.520 --> 1:20:09.799 Make sure we got to talk about the connection with Jesus. 1:20:09.800 --> 1:20:11.519 I forgot. I was gonna say his career. 1:20:13.080 --> 1:20:14.120 Just put that right over there. 1:20:18.400 --> 1:20:19.360 That's good, that's good. 1:20:19.880 --> 1:20:21.560 I was gonna say, we we didn't talk about the 1:20:22.120 --> 1:20:22.960 career in Radio two. 1:20:23.560 --> 1:20:28.200 Uh well real quick Bloud uh my sun Fire and 1:20:28.400 --> 1:20:32.599 uh and dmu uh we're managing be Loud. I met 1:20:32.600 --> 1:20:37.439 be Loud, it brought him to the house. They had 1:20:37.640 --> 1:20:42.120 the demo for the first album, and I listened to 1:20:42.160 --> 1:20:45.320 it and I and he and I talked. He came 1:20:45.360 --> 1:20:47.960 in the basement and we were talking. I said, man, 1:20:48.800 --> 1:20:53.960 why do you have harmonies on every line? I said, 1:20:55.080 --> 1:20:57.200 if you do that, I can't. I don't know what 1:20:57.240 --> 1:20:59.880 the hook is. I said, your hook has got to 1:20:59.920 --> 1:21:05.800 be I said, you're not comfortable singing and you know 1:21:05.840 --> 1:21:10.800 what you because he had harmonies on everything. So we 1:21:10.880 --> 1:21:16.280 talked and then uh they had cut uh soul system, 1:21:17.080 --> 1:21:21.080 so uh fire came to me and UH said, look bye, Byn. 1:21:21.320 --> 1:21:25.599 You know there was no melody, the hook was already there. 1:21:25.800 --> 1:21:29.000 Uh you must be bye. But that do do do 1:21:29.000 --> 1:21:32.360 do do do do do do do do do do 1:21:32.360 --> 1:21:35.960 do do do do do do So I put put 1:21:35.960 --> 1:21:40.479 the melody on that and that was this great experience. 1:21:41.200 --> 1:21:44.719 He's he's a monster. He's a monster, and. 1:21:46.120 --> 1:21:47.439 Shout out the quest loving the video. 1:21:47.680 --> 1:21:53.160 You know, yeah, how I cut How I cut vocals? Slyestone, 1:21:53.439 --> 1:21:56.599 Slidestone showed me something. He lived with me for about 1:21:56.640 --> 1:21:58.320 six months and. 1:21:58.240 --> 1:22:05.320 We wait, wait, wait, and like I'm going to four hour. 1:22:06.640 --> 1:22:09.760 How does slid Stone wind up in your house? And 1:22:09.840 --> 1:22:14.920 we've heard many on this show. How do you want? 1:22:15.080 --> 1:22:17.759 Slidestone? And I cut some tracks? I have what year. 1:22:19.920 --> 1:22:21.599 Like eighty five, eighty four. 1:22:22.240 --> 1:22:26.360 No, no No. After that we also co produced a 1:22:26.360 --> 1:22:29.320 couple of tracks on a track on the Barcade called 1:22:29.760 --> 1:22:34.479 just like a Teeto Tatter. Oh man, we gotta get 1:22:34.800 --> 1:22:38.160 called me. One day I was at the crib and 1:22:38.240 --> 1:22:45.080 a differend of mine, uh called me, uh Tyrone Brunson. 1:22:45.720 --> 1:22:47.880 He did the sur Yes is he from Philly? 1:22:48.120 --> 1:22:51.320 No, he's from DC. And Tyrone he was out somewhere 1:22:51.320 --> 1:22:53.400 and he said, man, look, man, I'm here with Slidestone. 1:22:54.040 --> 1:22:55.519 He wants to know can he talk? You know, would 1:22:55.520 --> 1:23:00.000 you talk to him? So slide gets on the phone. 1:23:00.920 --> 1:23:02.680 He said, man, I help. I heard that. You know 1:23:03.240 --> 1:23:05.720 you you cool, you know, but you know you have 1:23:05.880 --> 1:23:11.040 cats talk. He said, man, can I come out and 1:23:11.320 --> 1:23:13.120 holler with you? Man? I said, cool? So I send 1:23:13.200 --> 1:23:16.920 him a ticket, oh boy, and he came and uh. 1:23:17.040 --> 1:23:20.120 He stayed with me for about six months and we 1:23:20.160 --> 1:23:22.320 went in the studio. Absolute genius. 1:23:22.920 --> 1:23:24.640 Like on a roommate basis. 1:23:25.680 --> 1:23:27.280 I have a house. We were in a roomy he 1:23:27.439 --> 1:23:30.439 you know, Oh, I'm sorry you had a large well no, no, no, no, 1:23:30.439 --> 1:23:33.240 I don't have no mansion. That's that's that's for Hollywood. 1:23:33.479 --> 1:23:37.000 But uh, but large enough. Yeah, yeah. And then uh, 1:23:37.160 --> 1:23:41.720 but I got a chance to see Funk genius and 1:23:41.760 --> 1:23:43.240 he came to me. He said, Man, cause I want 1:23:43.240 --> 1:23:45.120 you to show me them cards. He called him blankets. 1:23:45.479 --> 1:23:52.280 He said, you play blankets, Slide and Miles was gonna 1:23:52.280 --> 1:23:54.800 do something when I'm this is when I'm with Miles 1:23:55.479 --> 1:23:59.400 on the Uh. And then Slide told me when he 1:23:59.400 --> 1:24:00.800 came to say, he said, I was gonna do it. 1:24:00.840 --> 1:24:03.320 He said, but then I got scared. He said it 1:24:03.360 --> 1:24:05.920 was Miles. He said, but now I'm getting a chance 1:24:05.920 --> 1:24:08.200 to work with you. So he said, like it's kind 1:24:08.200 --> 1:24:11.040 of you know, So I would show him these chords 1:24:12.479 --> 1:24:14.360 and he showed me more about Funk than I could 1:24:14.360 --> 1:24:18.599 have ever learned. So, like I said, I always say, man, 1:24:18.680 --> 1:24:23.080 I'm just channeling. This cat worked twenty seven hours a day. Man. 1:24:24.400 --> 1:24:26.639 He had a little cassio and he was making songs. 1:24:27.800 --> 1:24:30.880 We cut about four demos and I haven't. 1:24:32.439 --> 1:24:36.640 When's the last time you spoke to him? 1:24:36.840 --> 1:24:39.640 I think Slide called me about eight years ago. I 1:24:39.680 --> 1:24:42.240 have been talked to him. So were you and Twatha? 1:24:42.320 --> 1:24:48.000 Were y'all ever married or romantic? Anything goes you know, Okay, 1:24:52.720 --> 1:24:54.120 I'm not going in them houses. 1:24:54.160 --> 1:24:59.040 Man, Wait when you mentioned the Marquees. Yeah, when did 1:24:59.040 --> 1:25:00.000 you work with them? 1:25:00.120 --> 1:25:03.200 That was eighty nine on the Animal album Just cat 1:25:03.240 --> 1:25:08.320 here man scary, just like I got the Internet. I see, 1:25:09.080 --> 1:25:15.080 I'm old. I'm not ancient, just like a Teeto title. Man, 1:25:15.120 --> 1:25:18.320 it's a funky jam. Matter of fact, when Angelo Dangelo 1:25:18.400 --> 1:25:18.920 called me. 1:25:19.720 --> 1:25:24.360 It's probably his song, yo, he I was like, wait, 1:25:24.400 --> 1:25:25.360 did you even. 1:25:25.200 --> 1:25:28.120 Find he will? But it's fun if you have a 1:25:28.160 --> 1:25:28.960 play it, man, just. 1:25:30.080 --> 1:25:33.720 He will know? All right? Is there any artists that 1:25:34.479 --> 1:25:37.080 almost was and didn't happen that we I don't want 1:25:37.120 --> 1:25:37.519 to close. 1:25:37.600 --> 1:25:38.719 I know we're going to close your book. 1:25:40.320 --> 1:25:43.240 Who did you work with that didn't happen, almost happened, 1:25:43.439 --> 1:25:44.320 could have happened. 1:25:47.640 --> 1:25:53.280 No, that's a great question though, because when I stopped, 1:25:53.280 --> 1:25:54.439 did you reject an artist? 1:25:54.520 --> 1:25:56.280 Did someone come to you and say, hey, I want 1:25:56.320 --> 1:25:59.840 you to reduce it and you were like, I'm good. I 1:26:00.320 --> 1:26:00.880 never sha. 1:26:03.400 --> 1:26:06.160 And I don't mean like in the new I'm talking, 1:26:06.160 --> 1:26:08.280 Oh my god, lucor. 1:26:11.520 --> 1:26:13.000 What here we go? 1:26:13.240 --> 1:26:14.920 Oh my god? Yeah. 1:26:15.160 --> 1:26:17.000 I try to put I try to put that out 1:26:17.000 --> 1:26:18.479 of memory to that if I did that. 1:26:19.920 --> 1:26:25.080 I met Luther through to Watfa. Yeah, singing on he's 1:26:25.120 --> 1:26:28.559 doing backgrounds on uh giving on up that album. I 1:26:28.600 --> 1:26:33.080 think with that second album, searched the Rainbow that assault Yeah, 1:26:33.560 --> 1:26:42.280 damn of course voice okay, yes. Lutheror also put the 1:26:42.320 --> 1:26:49.840 backgrounds on do Do Yes, that's Lucor. Lucor also sang 1:26:49.960 --> 1:26:52.840 on that it's searched in the Rainbow Seekers. There's a 1:26:52.880 --> 1:26:57.920 song on there. Oh man, he put it, he put 1:26:58.439 --> 1:27:03.760 so Luther comes to me, we gotta deal with Warner Brothers. 1:27:04.920 --> 1:27:09.640 There was a singer named Marxi Dan. How do you 1:27:09.720 --> 1:27:14.479 know that that's that's to do that with to Watha right, 1:27:15.360 --> 1:27:19.240 but it's on that album. Yeah, yeah, but mark the day. 1:27:19.439 --> 1:27:23.080 So Luther wants like, yo, man, what I want you 1:27:23.080 --> 1:27:27.519 to I was like, no, because I'm doing this. But 1:27:27.640 --> 1:27:32.439 you know, you don't you never think because if I 1:27:32.439 --> 1:27:34.720 had done him, that doesn't mean it would have been 1:27:34.760 --> 1:27:37.120 the same result it was. It happened like it's supposed 1:27:37.120 --> 1:27:40.080 to happen. Yeah, but Luther, thank you keV. 1:27:42.400 --> 1:27:45.080 I mean what period like when he first got signed 1:27:45.080 --> 1:27:48.479 first album. Damn, so it could have been you instead 1:27:48.520 --> 1:27:50.000 of Marcus Miller Hawkins Villa. 1:27:50.720 --> 1:27:54.000 He's the first album is singing on She sang on 1:27:54.000 --> 1:27:56.360 every Lucier song. I mean every album. 1:27:56.520 --> 1:27:57.320 Yes she is. 1:27:57.920 --> 1:28:00.120 She's out with Dave Matthews now right, she. 1:28:00.160 --> 1:28:00.519 Used to be. 1:28:00.600 --> 1:28:02.960 No, man, let's not even go there. Man, Look no, 1:28:03.360 --> 1:28:07.120 I mean in jest. She has been with everybody. 1:28:07.320 --> 1:28:10.880 Dude, she's been. I've played with her three times and she. 1:28:10.880 --> 1:28:13.479 Told me to mention it didn't y'all stopped calling. 1:28:14.840 --> 1:28:17.040 I didn't realize until Lenny brought her back. 1:28:17.160 --> 1:28:18.400 She told me what she's like. 1:28:18.840 --> 1:28:19.640 You just noticed me. 1:28:19.680 --> 1:28:22.360 Now I've been here. She told me. When you first met, 1:28:22.760 --> 1:28:25.920 when she told you her name, you said yo and 1:28:26.000 --> 1:28:28.760 embrace it and told the cats she was like. 1:28:29.960 --> 1:28:31.880 Was she happy? 1:28:33.320 --> 1:28:38.080 Look? And you talk about her history? Lenny Kravitz, Stilly Dan, 1:28:38.800 --> 1:28:44.799 Dave Matthews, David Bowie, Resa Franklin. 1:28:45.680 --> 1:28:46.800 Where's she originally from? 1:28:48.680 --> 1:28:50.559 That's how we met. She was in the in the 1:28:50.560 --> 1:28:56.240 group Hot Tea and There Way to Howard. So I 1:28:56.320 --> 1:28:58.280 was living you know, I was living in North So 1:28:59.400 --> 1:29:02.360 I said his number. So when you finished, give me 1:29:02.360 --> 1:29:07.560 a call. She graduates, comes back and we're starting to 1:29:07.560 --> 1:29:09.839 get a couple of little things happening to me and Reggie, 1:29:10.360 --> 1:29:14.519 and she comes back and we get to Stephanie album. 1:29:14.560 --> 1:29:19.000 So she was vocal contractor on every every record. 1:29:19.479 --> 1:29:20.080 That's amazing. 1:29:20.120 --> 1:29:22.439 You need it, man's amazing. That's a history you really 1:29:22.479 --> 1:29:25.680 need to know. Well, because background singing is an art 1:29:25.720 --> 1:29:26.760 form that's getting lost to. 1:29:26.800 --> 1:29:29.320 Actually going to see her in four days. So I 1:29:29.400 --> 1:29:34.479 will I shall be stalking. Okay, yeah, I'm so afraid 1:29:34.520 --> 1:29:35.479 the end of this episode. 1:29:37.120 --> 1:29:37.840 That's a great word. 1:29:37.880 --> 1:29:39.400 We got to lose the stories we got. 1:29:39.560 --> 1:29:41.639 That was cav Thank you. I forgot Luke. 1:29:42.120 --> 1:29:49.519 Okay, all right, I learned everything all the things. Yeah, 1:29:50.080 --> 1:29:53.120 you're from Philly, and I learned that Philly doesn't know 1:29:53.120 --> 1:29:53.920 that you're from Philly. 1:29:54.000 --> 1:29:54.800 That's crazy, man. 1:29:54.800 --> 1:29:56.960 But we'll be at the Walk of Fame induction whatever 1:29:58.760 --> 1:29:59.080 to get you. 1:29:59.200 --> 1:30:01.800 Yeah, yes, okay, well, well you know, if it happens cool, 1:30:01.800 --> 1:30:04.440 if you don't, it will definitely have good. 1:30:04.560 --> 1:30:08.200 I'm good it will happen. We thank you for coming 1:30:08.280 --> 1:30:11.200 and sharing everything. Thank you so much for me having 1:30:11.280 --> 1:30:13.840 Sugar Steve and I'm paid Bill, and I'm Boss Bill, 1:30:14.360 --> 1:30:17.360 new Boss Bill. I'm Boss Bill. I don't know anyway, 1:30:17.880 --> 1:30:21.639 Like it's like in fant Ticcolo and Quest Love and 1:30:21.720 --> 1:30:23.920 James and Too May. We will see you on the 1:30:23.920 --> 1:30:26.200 next go round of whats Love Supreme? 1:30:35.840 --> 1:30:39.599 West Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic 1:30:39.640 --> 1:30:41.080 episode was produced by the. 1:30:41.040 --> 1:30:42.400 Team at Pandora. 1:30:49.479 --> 1:30:52.759 For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 1:30:52.960 --> 1:30:56.000 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.