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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

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Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

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Speaker 2: What up, y'all is Laiyah from Team Supreme. Okay, So

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Speaker 2: it's June, and you know it is Black Music Month. Now,

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Speaker 2: this month and its cause was started by my godmother,

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Speaker 2: Dianna Williams, the legendary Kenny Gamble, and the great ed

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Speaker 2: right back in nineteen seventy nine after being invited to

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Speaker 2: the White House along with the Black Music Association. Now,

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Speaker 2: the Black Music Association was a group of black folks

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Speaker 2: that were the best of the best of the music industry.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking record execs, I'm talking radio people, I'm talking artists.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking to everybody from Clarence Avon and Frankie Crocker

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Speaker 2: to Percy Sutton, everybody in the middle right. So they

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Speaker 2: all get invited to this big party on the White

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Speaker 2: House lawn June seventh, nineteen seventy nine. And before the

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Speaker 2: performances started, President Carter said many things addressing and reminding

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Speaker 2: people of the importance of black music. Monk, and one

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Speaker 2: of the things he said was end quote in many ways,

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Speaker 2: the feelings of our own black citizens throughout the history

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Speaker 2: of our country has been accurately expressed in the music,

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Speaker 2: and it presents a kind of history of our nation

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Speaker 2: when you go back and see the evolution of black

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Speaker 2: music word. So we've spoken a lot about black music

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Speaker 2: months on Questloves Supreme, and this June we are running

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Speaker 2: a different episode from the QLs archives every single day

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Speaker 2: in the name Spirit and Cause of Black music.

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Speaker 3: Mom Next up.

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Speaker 2: We are honoring a legend who has transitioned and so

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Speaker 2: we continue to honor him, the amazing James m Two men.

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Speaker 4: So, uh, after you want to gram me for the closer,

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Speaker 4: I get to you. Correct, I hope you did.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I stumbled for a minute because you know

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Speaker 5: that I never cared about that. Really, I didn't care

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Speaker 5: about that. I don't even know where that thing is, man,

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Speaker 5: what that's five? They tell you, my son. So I

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Speaker 5: had it somewhere. So I was somewhere out and Fire

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Speaker 5: told me one day he was practicing, you know, trying

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Speaker 5: to be Michael Jackson, he said, and he spun and

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Speaker 5: he overspun and the thing fluck flung out his fingers.

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Speaker 4: And broke broke the ground.

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Speaker 5: So he was like, like, really, oh God, what I'm

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Speaker 5: to say? He tried to glue it and when I

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Speaker 5: got home mess I don't really care about that because

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Speaker 5: I was so offended that back then. Why was I offended?

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Speaker 5: Back then? They didn't give the Black Awards on television.

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Speaker 5: It was doing the commercial now, well your hip hop

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Speaker 5: caught it. But R and B was like, we don't

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Speaker 5: announce we won the best arm B Record of the

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Speaker 5: Year and it was doing the commercials And they come

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Speaker 5: back and said, well, earlier to night we announced. It's

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Speaker 5: a messive. Man. I don't know, but I never really cared.

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Speaker 5: I don't have gold records and platinums on my hanging nowhere,

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Speaker 5: am I right? Yet they're in the basement in a

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Speaker 5: box in my garage. What look, man?

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Speaker 2: What is hanging on the what's hanging on? I'm just

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Speaker 2: I was just curious. Now you said, I'm like, what

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Speaker 2: kind of aids?

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Speaker 5: Anything that you like? I don't have. No, I'm not

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Speaker 5: into I'm not a collector. I don't want to. You know,

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Speaker 5: saund that that that adventurous. But I see something I

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Speaker 5: like it.

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Speaker 4: Did you did you work on, uh the what you're

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Speaker 4: gonna do from with my love and album with Steffani

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Speaker 4: emails or what you're gonna do with or is it

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Speaker 4: sweets and station? Now? Yes, first four. So you guys

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Speaker 4: did put your body in and all that stuff, and

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Speaker 4: that's my ship. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 5: I boom boom boom boom.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I really should my notes and I'm just speaking

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Speaker 4: as an off the Cup fan. So what is it?

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Speaker 4: What's it like working with an artist of Stephanie's statute

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Speaker 4: where like, almost in my head, I think in that

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Speaker 4: time period I would put her okay and as far

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Speaker 4: as the the the challenge difficulty category, I would put

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Speaker 4: her in almost Patty in the same basket, where it's like,

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Speaker 4: you know, the talent is there, you know the voice

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Speaker 4: is there, and you know that a lot of their

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Speaker 4: a lot of their varieties based on the the gymnastic yeah,

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Speaker 4: the high note in the in the fanciness of it.

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Speaker 4: But it's like when you're making pop records, you gotta sing.

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Speaker 4: The song has to be right and disciplined. So how

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Speaker 4: do you discipline a sing a singer like Stephanie Mills

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Speaker 4: that's able to sing synk rings around you and just

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Speaker 4: tell it, look stick to the.

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Speaker 5: Well, here's the entry again, story behind everything that wasn't

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Speaker 5: Stephanie's first's album. A lot of people don't know that. Okay,

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Speaker 5: she had an album before that that was written and

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Speaker 5: produced by two of my main inspirations, Burt Backrack and

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Speaker 5: how David.

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Speaker 4: Wait on twenty she was on Another Lady.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, look it up. So these cats, well, I

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Speaker 5: had three inspirations. First was Curtis Mayfield, then it was

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Speaker 5: Burt back David, then was Holland oser In Holland, and

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Speaker 5: then later on obviously Gambling Huff and Tom Bell. But

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Speaker 5: and Tom Bell kind of took Backrack and David and

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Speaker 5: blackened it more. But it was sorry but I don't know, no,

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Speaker 5: I don't know what it was on. But so I'm like, damn,

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Speaker 5: I gotta come behind cats that all that, you know,

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Speaker 5: Dion Warwick all that. I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 5: the mistake that they made. They produced her like she's done,

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Speaker 5: She's not dem she's something else. So we have a

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Speaker 5: first meeting with Stephanie. I had just left Roberta. We

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Speaker 5: were finished. I told her this is the last tour.

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Speaker 5: I didn't have nothing that there wasn't no work. But

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Speaker 5: the whole band quit when I quit, and I was like,

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Speaker 5: I ain't got no work from nobody, and I get

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Speaker 5: the call. It said me and Reggie. I said, man,

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Speaker 5: we had partnered with Famous Music. We did a publishing

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Speaker 5: a fifty fifty things. So they called and said, man,

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Speaker 5: look have you ever produced anything. I said, yeah, but

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Speaker 5: none of us been released. I ain't produced nothing, man

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Speaker 5: but a headache. So they sent us back then you

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Speaker 5: would get seed money to do demos. So they sent

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Speaker 5: I think maybe fifteen grand do three songs. First three

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Speaker 5: songs we cut what you're gonna do with my loving

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Speaker 5: put your body in it and deeper inside your love.

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Speaker 5: And I remember telling them if you can't hear this,

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Speaker 5: and to Watha singing all the references demo, you have those, no, no, no,

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Speaker 5: but see, let me tell you one of the everybody

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Speaker 5: has a little things that they do. One of the

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Speaker 5: things that we did that was kind of different in

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Speaker 5: recording back then, I recorded with the synth players being there.

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Speaker 5: They were part of the rhythm section. To Watha sang

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Speaker 5: on every take. I wanted the musicians to be playing

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Speaker 5: with the feeling. So everything you ever heard coming out

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Speaker 5: of Philisheim and all that is to Watha singing the leads,

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Speaker 5: you know here comes to everybody's in But you're playing

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Speaker 5: with greater voice to.

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Speaker 4: Do it to.

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Speaker 5: But it made it made it even warmer. And and

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Speaker 5: and the cats play, you know with more So.

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Speaker 4: When Stephanie Mills and subsequently Phil Simon are getting these

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Speaker 4: demos so on you're saying that on the you know

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Speaker 4: how to Love Me Full the Time and demo, she's

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Speaker 4: ghosting like she's studying listening to how.

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Speaker 5: To wout every song we ever did to Watcher's recording.

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Speaker 5: While maybe sometimes you got six takes, she's singing on

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Speaker 5: every take because I wanted that emotion there. And when

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Speaker 5: you get it and you send it that you know

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Speaker 5: to the whatever you know that you getting ready to do,

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Speaker 5: so they know how the song goes. But what better

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Speaker 5: reference now?

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Speaker 4: And in your crew? First of all, how did you

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Speaker 4: guys decide and short of them in the Chard way

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Speaker 4: of things, how did you guys decide the name of

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Speaker 4: the group is going to be? And two man, I

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Speaker 4: didn't like why not Lucas?

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Speaker 5: No, we did well. I went when I went to Epic,

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Speaker 5: we was gonna name the band Mindbender. I mean because

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Speaker 5: everybody was on p funk. You know, we do the

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Speaker 5: costumes and it was a guy who had the promotions

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Speaker 5: at epic named Paris Ealy and Paris said no man,

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Speaker 5: he said him too, May And I was like, are

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Speaker 5: you crazy? People? You know today mister Muttmin was here,

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Speaker 5: I mean made that was so weird. We're talking about

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Speaker 5: nineteen seventy eight. And he said, no, this is what

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Speaker 5: we'll do. He said, I know it's people don't know

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Speaker 5: how to pronounce it. He said, we'll call it.

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Speaker 4: He said.

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Speaker 5: The one thing about that, he said, once you know

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Speaker 5: that name, you'll never forget it. And he said, and

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Speaker 5: we'll put the albums out with it phonetically spelled out

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Speaker 5: how to say it, dash t oo dash m a y.

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Speaker 4: It's on your first album. I have a copy of

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Speaker 4: the album, which is like M two main pronounced yeah.

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Speaker 5: And I you know, because I felt weird about it

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Speaker 5: because I didn't It was like, man, I don't want none.

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Speaker 5: That's not what the group was about.

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Speaker 2: The people in the group.

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Speaker 5: Well, I thought the cast would go yo man, but

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Speaker 5: they were like okay, because they it makes it's something

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Speaker 5: about it that does make sense. Well, I mean, I

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Speaker 5: didn't go to that deep, but it was that. But

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Speaker 5: that's how that's that. I didn't have nothing to do

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Speaker 5: with that.

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Speaker 4: It's just like, okay, man, okay, there's a question about

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Speaker 4: your record, and I understand, I guess, and I got

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Speaker 4: your first album maybe when I started like my first

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Speaker 4: round digging, like in the late eighties. So when I

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Speaker 4: discovered there were albums before the Juicy Fruit, why didn't

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Speaker 4: you guys ever think of making yes a complete song?

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Speaker 5: Erica actually get ready to say Erica Bad called me, yeah,

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Speaker 5: and she said, that's one of my favorite That was

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Speaker 5: the sludy seconds. Yeah. Well, you know what, I'm also

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Speaker 5: kind of humorous. And if you notice, the first time,

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Speaker 5: I think we got to play for the people, and

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Speaker 5: then the next time we played that's when I you know,

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Speaker 5: I hated astrology. Man, what are you what you're signed?

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Speaker 5: I said, coach sign, you know, And so we did

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Speaker 5: that little take That was just my personal hatred.

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Speaker 4: I realized it. But the groove was so monstious. Man,

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Speaker 4: I'm like, y'all don't even know, like next to roy

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Speaker 4: are is that?

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Speaker 6: That?

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Speaker 4: To me is like that could to be the beginning

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Speaker 4: and the father of like some neo soul, Like that's

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Speaker 4: our blueprint.

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Speaker 5: Asparagus, Chill Rising Laws, my sign, Spinach the community Pea. Well,

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Speaker 5: that was like we tried.

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Speaker 4: Erica tried to get us to do that. I think

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Speaker 4: we oh really after who was after Mama's Gone? Uh,

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Speaker 4: worldwide underground, world Wide Underground. The one idea worked on

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Speaker 4: before it was we we tried to make that into

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Speaker 4: a jam. I mean, it's still somewhere up there, so

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Speaker 4: maybe so bring it back.

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Speaker 5: Talk to me about Lovelock. That's like one of my

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Speaker 5: favorite song. Look god, look, so where did that come from?

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Speaker 5: We were working on the album. I had that thing,

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Speaker 5: you know, the magic to that record. It's Watha and

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Speaker 5: we hit up there's a groove that gets we get into,

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Speaker 5: especially towards the end, and I'm playing you know, acoustic,

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Speaker 5: and I'm going through this Latin ding ding d tink

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Speaker 5: and she just it was just magic. Man, it was magic.

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Speaker 5: I mean I remember we cut that in one tape. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: And you know, some sometimes that's that's how it goes.

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Speaker 5: Some ship you cut recut and it just don't work.

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Speaker 5: But that just and it really was a combination of

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Speaker 5: arm and B and jazz, it really was. And uh,

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Speaker 5: but her it's her saying and I think floord for

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Speaker 5: him and I are told we did it, But it's

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Speaker 5: her performance.

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Speaker 6: Man, that makes total sense that flow.

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Speaker 5: Now you know what I thought of it? Wow, when

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Speaker 5: we did I thought I always thought of it like

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Speaker 5: an airline commercial, you know, fly T zero A whatever.

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Speaker 6: I love that song and thank you for that.

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Speaker 4: There's there's there's a member of your team that we

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Speaker 4: haven't mentioned yet. And I gotta say, man, like talk

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Speaker 4: about work with Hubert Eves the third and yeah, like

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Speaker 4: him being part of the team, like what.

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Speaker 5: Hubert and I had played together on the jazz circuit.

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Speaker 5: You know everybody in the band, okay, the first band incarnation,

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Speaker 5: Basil Farrington on bass, Hubert Eves, myself, Reggie ed Tree,

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Speaker 5: Moore of the guitarist, uh, Howard King Locksmith and we

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Speaker 5: all were jazz musicians, so Ubert uh, you know, we

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Speaker 5: played different gigs together her and so when we put

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Speaker 5: the band together, we all was the band. The recording

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Speaker 5: band unit came out of roberta flat. We all played

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Speaker 5: with Roberta And when we left, I said, well, man,

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Speaker 5: when we started getting you know, production gigs, I said,

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Speaker 5: this would be the rhythm section because you got to

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Speaker 5: have a sound. What's your signature? And we weren't like

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Speaker 5: anybody else, you know, you had Nile and Bernard that

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Speaker 5: was happening at the same time. It was a few people,

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Speaker 5: but we had our own unit. The singers it was

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Speaker 5: was Tawatha. Uh no, no, no, no, Sidney, Cindy was

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Speaker 5: I mean Sidney on a couple of things. But the

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Speaker 5: of course sisters that she's dead now a great singer

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Speaker 5: out of NewYork, Brenda White, Tawatha Brenda White and wow,

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Speaker 5: forgive me. Yeah. But uh, we had our own unit.

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Speaker 4: And how did you discover it? To Watsa, how did

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Speaker 4: she come into the circle.

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Speaker 5: The first demo me and Reggyeaver cut was this group

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Speaker 5: called hot Tea out of Howard University. It was to

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Speaker 5: Watsa and Angela Winbush.

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Speaker 4: Oh my bro, you're just sitting on that.

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Speaker 5: Wow. So they were all a part of Howard it was.

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Speaker 5: It was. It was a group, a group of five.

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Speaker 5: No there was before there were a gospel group and

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Speaker 5: uh it was five members. But I'm saying, you know,

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Speaker 5: to Watha and Aelup was in it. And we cut

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Speaker 5: the demo. You know, we couldn't sell it. But out

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Speaker 5: of that it was to Watsa, you know, and we've

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Speaker 5: been together forty one years. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 5: I'm getting ready to cut an EP order. You know,

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Speaker 5: we're gonna give it a shot. I'm not doing a

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Speaker 5: lot of the writing because you know, you got to

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Speaker 5: know you know what time it is, you know, and

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Speaker 5: it's it's you know, we got some young writers and stuff.

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Speaker 5: But I'll be dealing with the melodies, you know what

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Speaker 5: I mean.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm not going to try and throw a monkey

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Speaker 4: wrench in, but here's here's the monkey wrench. No, because okay,

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Speaker 4: to hear, to hear, you describe it as far as like,

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Speaker 4: you know, move forward, don't burn the I mean burn

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Speaker 4: the bridge and don't look in the rearview mirror and

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Speaker 4: let the young people lead the way. But I also

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Speaker 4: feel like we need to know to kind of know

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Speaker 4: the way and not let the blind lead the blind.

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Speaker 5: So well, I agree.

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Speaker 4: I still I don't think ideas just expiring people. So

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't want I personally don't don't want

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Speaker 4: you to feel like, okay, well I don't have ideas to.

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Speaker 5: No, I don't feel like that. But here's why I

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Speaker 5: agree with you. In terms of what happens to black music.

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Speaker 5: The professors were thrown out of class. There was this

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Speaker 5: what I call a breakdown in the cultural continuity with

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Speaker 5: arm bing funk and when hip hop was coming along.

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Speaker 5: There was also a struggle a a in a generational

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Speaker 5: struggle M younger black U k uh uh of men

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Speaker 5: and older blacks. Y. My generation was looking down. That

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Speaker 5: ain't music, young cats. You know y'all coming through. Man,

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Speaker 5: You know f that? So I said, Man, one day

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Speaker 5: I woke up and said, man, if you got all

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Speaker 5: age and no youth, your glass is half full. All

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Speaker 5: youth with no age, your glass is half empty. Right now,

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Speaker 5: we got a half a glass of music. These conversations

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Speaker 5: are what's needed. M Man. I I learned from y'all,

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Speaker 5: but I can give you what I know, but be

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Speaker 5: open to learn from what y'all doing. There's not enough

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Speaker 5: sharing of information in black music. That's the problem. Young

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Speaker 5: Black kids grow up with the history of their music.

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Speaker 5: I used to watch the d grateful dead be great parents,

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Speaker 5: parents and kids. Your cultural continuity is a real thing.

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Speaker 5: We had a real breakdown because of the social thing.

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Speaker 5: What happened. I always said, my generation began to look

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Speaker 5: at y'all through other eyes, like y'all wasn't as we

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Speaker 5: weren't teaching. It was a breakdown.

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Speaker 4: Speaking of that jazz, all that jazz. Let's talk about

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Speaker 4: that jazz. Okay, So, of course to a lot of

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Speaker 4: the to the classic hip hop, uh luminaries that that

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Speaker 4: are are well versed in the culture and that owns

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Speaker 4: of sonics and full gear many many will We'll get

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Speaker 4: out of here with that.

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Speaker 5: But let's go.

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Speaker 4: Dude, until you said that, I totally forgot you were

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Speaker 4: the subject of that.

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Speaker 5: Song youth Vader.

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Speaker 4: So no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't I don't

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Speaker 4: even know. I didn't know. He so talking all that

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Speaker 4: jazz was about that's about here even here the hear

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Speaker 4: them like sample.

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna knock you out. Yeah, here's here's what happened.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 5: I co host a black talk show called Open Line

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Speaker 5: Our Voices, Yeah, openly, and so we were having a discussion.

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Speaker 4: What time did it come on?

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Speaker 5: No no, no, no, no, no no no. This is before

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Speaker 5: they ripped it up. It was a decent hour. But

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Speaker 5: we were having a debate, a discussion on a debate

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Speaker 5: about what was the thing that knocked knocked this out?

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Speaker 5: Doing a year in review of what happened on the year,

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Speaker 5: and I said, man, I've only had been done this

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Speaker 5: a few times in my life. I know you. I've

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Speaker 5: been up here about what five hours? Oh no, dude,

336
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Speaker 5: start dreaming interview shadow So uh that was the word.

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Speaker 5: I was good.

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Speaker 4: No, please give us all the stories.

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Speaker 5: So we were talking about what knocked you out. I said, well,

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Speaker 5: I've only done this a couple times in my life. Well,

341
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Speaker 5: I'm driving and something came on the radio and I

342
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Speaker 5: had to pull over. What it was was bring the noise. Wow.

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Speaker 5: Now I didn't know nothing about sampling. I'm thinking, these

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Speaker 5: cats are playing in all these different keys tilious month

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Speaker 5: or stepoids later on, I hooked up with Frank Shockley,

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Speaker 5: I mean with Shockley, and he explained to me about sampling. Anyway,

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Speaker 5: to make a long story short. In that same conversation,

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Speaker 5: I said, the thing that knocked me out was public Enemy.

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Speaker 5: But I also delved into a subject that nobody wanted

350
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Speaker 5: to touch on. I said sampling. At that time, cats

351
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Speaker 5: didn't know how to play for the most part. But

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Speaker 5: that became a badge of honor. I said, wait a minute.

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Speaker 5: If you want to be a lawyer, you got to

354
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Speaker 5: know something about what law. You want to be a doctor,

355
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 5: you gotta know something about what medicine. Why you want

356
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 5: to be in music, but you don't need to know

357
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Speaker 5: nothing about music. And I said, I'm not against sampling

358
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Speaker 5: as a pit stop, don't live there. And I said,

359
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 5: and if you're gonna sample somebody's music, pay them, that's

360
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Speaker 5: all I said. So a lot of people got offended.

361
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Speaker 5: And I gotta say this, Daddy or heard that he

362
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Speaker 5: was listening to this. What here is how we started

363
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Speaker 5: heard you on the radio talking.

364
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Speaker 2: About rap, saying all that crap about how we sample.

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Speaker 5: Give an example. We'll let you get away with that

366
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Speaker 5: to criticize our methods how we make You said that

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Speaker 5: wasn't art, So now we're gonna rip you apart. And

368
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Speaker 5: they took it that way. That's not I was not saying.

369
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Speaker 5: First of all, how could I say sampling is jag

370
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Speaker 5: as much as I you know, said juicy You kidding?

371
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Speaker 5: But I said, at that time, they weren't paying you know,

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Speaker 5: the so and so. Yeah, man, So it didn't really

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Speaker 5: start turning around until me, me, myself and I came

374
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Speaker 5: out and they sampled still a man, old peg.

375
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Speaker 4: Old peg, that's what.

376
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Speaker 5: But during that time they weren't paying James and all

377
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 5: the people. Man. Only when I did the juicy food deal.

378
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 5: With Puffy and I gotta say this. I was doing

379
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Speaker 5: New York undercover. I was me and Andre Heral were

380
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 5: meeting and and and Andre said, look, my Puffy wants

381
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 5: to holler at you for a minute. So Puffy comes in.

382
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Speaker 5: Hey to him, I said, buff, what's up? He said, Man,

383
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Speaker 5: I want you to meet my artist. He said, Biggie

384
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 5: small Biggie comes in, sweetheart man, I said, boom. He said, look, man,

385
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 5: I want to sample juicy food. Man, I'll say this

386
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 5: about Puffy. We sat down. In a few minutes, we

387
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 5: did a page and a half. It ain't no long conversation.

388
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 5: You get a dollar, like you fifty cents. That's all

389
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 5: it is. I said. But a lot of that became

390
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 5: a thing. And I because I was the only cat

391
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 5: talking about that, and that record came out, I became

392
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 5: and I was doing handles and stuff and oh man,

393
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 5: you hate hip hop. I'm like, nod that answer your question.

394
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 5: And me and Daddy O are fabulous friends. Now okay,

395
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 5: go ahead, okay, So okay, So I want to know

396
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Speaker 5: when Madonna enters the picture, why was Reggie the only

397
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 5: person and producer?

398
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 2: Not you?

399
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 5: We broke up, Damn. Here's here's timing. No, not really.

400
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 5: I did the Juicy Food album. Ain't I ain't sorry.

401
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 5: Here's what happened. There's a point when you're partnering, you're

402
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 5: starting to have other.

403
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 4: Thoughts.

404
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 5: You've exhausted what that partnership was supposed to do. I

405
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 5: remember earlier I said, well what kept things together? Well, success,

406
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 5: like the saying is success needs no explanation, fair can

407
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 5: never be explained. So damn when I started, success needs

408
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 5: no explanation, and failure can never be explained.

409
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Speaker 4: He's like outquoding fante. You a coffee table book. I

410
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 4: would read it just like I'd read It's.

411
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Speaker 5: Like I was starting to hear that I was done.

412
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 5: I remember I always tell the story man. One day

413
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 5: I sat down at the piano man to write, and

414
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 5: I started tears started coming down my eyes. I didn't

415
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 5: know what was happening. And then I realized, Man, this

416
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 5: sounds like all of the.

417
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 6: Ship you was just done before.

418
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 5: And I was like, oh my god. I felt wrights

419
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 5: blockade and I said, you got it. What I say, man,

420
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 5: that it was time for that bridge to be burned.

421
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 5: I didn't. I didn't hear strings and horns with the

422
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 5: big arrangements to lush. I was hearing what I call

423
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 5: neo minimalism, how to take this and make it sound

424
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 5: like that? Then that was a Juicy Food album. On

425
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 5: that song, man, there's only four inches. I say, yeah,

426
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 5: it's not it sounds like this, But I was hearing

427
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 5: something different. Reggie was feeling something different. He hooked up

428
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 5: with Madonna. I was doing Juicy Fruit. He did Madonna, so.

429
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 4: He didn't work on the third and two May record.

430
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 5: What was that one? Oh? Okay, no, no, so that

431
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 5: was you? Yeah, yeah, I think what I did. I

432
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 5: might have said one of the tunes we did, but

433
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 5: it really wasn't.

434
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 4: No.

435
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 5: No, that's all me. Oh man, okay, but that wasn't like.

436
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 4: It was a you know, some anger. No, it was like, yeah,

437
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 4: where is Reggie? To this day you rarely hear of

438
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 4: him on the scene or I don't know.

439
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 5: Reggie's cool. We talked with matter fact, we just talked

440
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 5: the other day. I just decided, like you said, it's

441
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 5: not a lot of I don't do even do these

442
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 5: kind of you know, I five and my daughter have

443
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 5: convinced me. No, man, you seventy man, come on man,

444
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 5: you split this information goals. I just decided I just agreed,

445
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 5: Just agreed. Was it last week we started shooting the

446
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 5: unsung on My Life?

447
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 2: And this is crazy too?

448
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 5: Well, it's kind of nuts. Yeah, it's kind of nuts. Uh.

449
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 5: It's from everything from my father who's ninety Wow, you

450
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 5: know too, you know, young cats, you know, and and

451
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 5: and sisters you know. But I've been around a long time.

452
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 5: I've been doing this fifty years. Man.

453
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 4: That's that's crazy. It's not even long enough for me.

454
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 4: There's more, there's more to do, So, you know, I

455
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 4: don't even know if you're aware of this, but I

456
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 4: was going to say that a lot of a lot

457
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 4: of hip hop heads. Of course, you know, a lot

458
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,959
Speaker 4: of people would think that Juicy is your go to record.

459
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 4: But what I was telling Fonte earlier upstairs was.

460
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 6: That and I didn't know this was your record.

461
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 4: It was this was when uh, for some reason kick

462
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 4: apri Oh exactly record like that's his go to intro record,

463
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 4: his freestyle record for rappers, like he's been spinning that forever.

464
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 4: And I never what song is that. It's called Biggest Theme,

465
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 4: Biggest Beat.

466
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 5: It's from I scored this Native Native. It was a movie,

467
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 5: your first movie I did, And.

468
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 4: I can't find it nowhere, but like kick Capri must

469
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 4: have at least like eight copies of the Red Yeah.

470
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, when the album the what do you call them?

471
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 5: Soundtrack not the soundtrack scores. Yeah, it wasn't no like

472
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 5: soundtracks became songs later, but there was this score and

473
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 5: kid jumped on it. And I remember telling keV. I

474
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 5: remember grand Master Flash called me, said, mall the tunes.

475
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 5: I want to come by and holler at you. So

476
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 5: he came over to Jersey. I live in South Orange

477
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 5: and so grand Master was telling me, Man, he said, man,

478
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 5: you know why we like your music? He said it's holy.

479
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 5: He said, I don't mean like religious holy. He said,

480
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 5: you got a lot of holes. We can take snippets.

481
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 5: And I didn't really, you know, fully understand. I did understand,

482
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 5: but not fully. And uh, Miles introduced the idea to

483
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 5: you for space Hey man, quotations, there you go? And

484
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 5: where was I going? Man? Oh oh with biggest, biggest

485
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 5: them and uh so that's what prepared me for New

486
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 5: York Undercover.

487
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 4: How was it? Uh? In in that sort of.

488
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 5: I didn't mean to make that, making the transition. I

489
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 5: should have waited.

490
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 4: So we're working in uh that medium of television and scoring, Like,

491
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 4: how easy was that to episode for episode? I personally

492
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 4: it's easy to you or no, I find it hard. Yeah,

493
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 4: So what was the pressure like of deadline?

494
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 5: First? Okay, with truth be told? I breathed. I get

495
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 5: to l a that the pilot is done. You don't

496
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 5: have to do a visual music for a pilot. I

497
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 5: go out there maybe to put a couple of things on.

498
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 5: It was me and I took a brother because I

499
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 5: didn't know scoring for television. When I said, you know,

500
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 5: I didn't know, I want to I got to know.

501
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 5: And this thing came up quick. When Andrew called me,

502
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 5: so dun Pearson was like my go to guy. He

503
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 5: was a music director for with h O Jay's and

504
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 5: so I said, so when we talk and I want

505
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 5: to know, what's the Q? What's you know how to

506
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 5: read at the time? You know? Because frames? How many

507
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 5: frames per second? And I go out there, man, dick

508
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 5: Wolf said, Man on we arrive on Friday, Dick Wolf says, man,

509
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 5: I need a theme Monday. First of all, I don't

510
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 5: even have any instruments. What do you but you know? No, no, no, no.

511
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 4: No, this is a true story. It was gonna be

512
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 4: Saturday man.

513
00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 5: I called my brother and he called uh uh uh

514
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 5: brother that programmed everything for us. He did the uh

515
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 5: uh the Chronic.

516
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 6: Album Colin Wolf.

517
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 5: No, oh, man, this is crazy program. Uh but you

518
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 5: look going the credits for the team me done and

519
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 5: this brother did the team. But because I knew I

520
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 5: wanted we originally we were supposed to have a cat

521
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 5: that was gonna Andre said he had a guy that

522
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 5: we're gonna do all the beats. The night before we

523
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 5: leaving to go to La I go to his crib

524
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 5: because when I called him, I said, man, you know

525
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 5: we're leaving tomorrow. He said, well tunes. I'm not comfortable

526
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 5: because I wasn't gonna do beats, you know, like right right,

527
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 5: because I knew one thing I didn't want to do

528
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 5: nothing old and this was a chance to really put

529
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 5: a sound on television that had never been done. So

530
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 5: the night before we leave, he drops out. So my

531
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 5: brother gets to get the brother I got. You gotta

532
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 5: look it up with his name, and we do that.

533
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 5: It's the brother that did the chronic program the Chronic

534
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 5: and I take it they uh look up for the

535
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 5: theme in New York on the cover writing credits.

536
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 4: Uh, it's just showing your name is the writer.

537
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 5: That's bullshit. I'm telling you it's it's just incorrect. It's

538
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 5: done piercing myself in the Southern. But so they reject

539
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 5: the theme. I bring the theme Monday morning. First of all,

540
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 5: they were shot, you know, man, look I'm talking about no,

541
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 5: I gotta have this. They rejected it. There was a

542
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 5: woman named rock sand Lapel that worked at Universal.

543
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 4: Gregory Royal up the ball boss Bill.

544
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 5: So yeah, because I did not want to, you know,

545
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 5: I no, never, I don't do that, she said. Dick

546
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 5: Wolf rejected it. She said, send me over that. That's

547
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 5: when we were you know, Dad's she said. I said, oh, man,

548
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 5: because I'm like, this is the best I can do.

549
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 5: I'm not because it was fresh, nothing like that. You

550
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 5: know who's playing the Saxon. That's the brother from earth

551
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 5: Wind and Fire and you no, no, no, no, no,

552
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 5: not that, not that earth Wind the original. So I'm like,

553
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 5: I'm fried man. So I sent it over to her.

554
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 5: It's a true story. She takes it to the to

555
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 5: the head the president of the television at Universal. She

556
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 5: calls me back, she said, I just played it for

557
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 5: the president. He said, this is exactly what we need

558
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 5: for this urban show and he said, also tell him

559
00:34:41,320 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 5: to mate. Thank you for Juicy Free man. Yo, that

560
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 5: is no dude, you don't understand.

561
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 4: Like wait a minute, that was Thursday night.

562
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 5: Like that was like that song always put me in

563
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 5: like the best move because it was like, I mean,

564
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,959
Speaker 5: New It's Gonna Come was my favorite show and it

565
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 5: like starts off dark, but then it goes into that

566
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 5: that sax line is really beautiful and that's the jazz

567
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 5: parte and.

568
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,919
Speaker 4: It just said, like I just know, like I heard

569
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 4: that song and I just know it's Thursday and tomorrow's Friday.

570
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 6: And this ship about.

571
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 4: The thing is is that I thought you were going

572
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 4: someone else, somewhere else with the story, as in, you know,

573
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 4: we did an original theme that they didn't like. Then

574
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 4: we came up with them. I didn't realize that they.

575
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 5: Heard this, rejected this well, and then took it back.

576
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 5: Here's what happened. We're talking true. There was some friction

577
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 5: with Dick and Andre. Andre was originally a co co

578
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,439
Speaker 5: executive producer, and uh, there was some business all out.

579
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 5: I was kind of left out there hanging in the

580
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 5: middle of it. So Dick and I became very close,

581
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 5: but Initially he's looking at me as part of this

582
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 5: and I'm like, no, I'm not. That's my man. He

583
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 5: brought me in, but I'm serious about this, and he

584
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 5: looked kind of looked at me like uh. And plus

585
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 5: he had his man, Mike Post. You gotta remember, Yeah,

586
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 5: so he was kind of forced to have to deal

587
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 5: with me, especially after the president of the of the

588
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 5: studio said no, man, this is what this is what

589
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 5: we want and I'm into no ego here, man, But

590
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 5: Mike Post can't do what. I couldn't do that because

591
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 5: to me, TV music was so staved and stale. And

592
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 5: here's the chase scene I'm talking about, you know, soprano

593
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 5: sacks and stuff. You hadn't heard that. Plus I'm doing

594
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 5: Natalie's I'm scoring this show and then I'm reproducing songs

595
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 5: for the club scene. Now let's talk about.

596
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 4: Natal please, yes, let's talk about it.

597
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 5: Natalie's in the script. The original script was just the

598
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 5: place where the cops, you know, uh my Leak and

599
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 5: Michael hung out the original if you watched the first season,

600
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 5: Gladys Knight is Natalie. She owns Natalie's. She was the

601
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 5: father's of Michael's father's ex girlfriend. I'm sitting there. I said, man,

602
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 5: you know what could be interesting New York Undercover the

603
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 5: first years nineteen ninety four, if you think about it,

604
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 5: ar Senior Hall had been taken off. There was no

605
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,919
Speaker 5: place to hear or see a black R and B band.

606
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 5: I said, man, you know what we can do. I'll

607
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 5: bring in young current artists and redo a classic, bringing

608
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 5: the classic artists to redo their hits. Airgo one twelve

609
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,479
Speaker 5: after the Lover Is Gone, Mary, Natural woman U Joe

610
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 5: to Cy.

611
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 6: They do lately?

612
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 5: Was that? No?

613
00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 3: No?

614
00:37:58,480 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 5: That was.

615
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 6: What did Josy do?

616
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 5: They on the Cold Joint because they put y'all you

617
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 5: put out an album, I'll put out the well I did?

618
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 5: I did? I did? Uh? Uh? What's the brother? Josy

619
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 5: the lead Casey I later produced if you think Jason's lyric.

620
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 5: But so I'm doing, man, I'm saying all this answer

621
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 5: to your question, brother, I was doing putting in twenty

622
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 5: hours a day, man, because first of all, I had

623
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 5: to figure out what's gonna be my sound. All the

624
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 5: equipment had changed. I'd been off the scene for a

625
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 5: few years, so I had called all these cats. I'm

626
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 5: going through thousands of sounds to find out what what'll

627
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 5: be my go to sounds? How I'm gonna put these beats,

628
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 5: you know, Because I had to figure all that on

629
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:52,839
Speaker 5: on on, on the fly and then produced. I worked

630
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 5: it out finally by the third season, I wrote, scored

631
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 5: the whole show in two days, did the whole Natalie

632
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 5: in a day and a half. But it's like third day.

633
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 4: Well, in a day and a half, you had all

634
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 4: those artists line up one by one, knocked them out.

635
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 5: No no, no, no per episode, no no, per episode.

636
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 5: It was an assistant inam lie on the floor and

637
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 5: I will talk about, well, who can we get next?

638
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 5: So we reach out and uh, once we get the artists,

639
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 5: I would say, okay, this is the song we do

640
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 5: you know? Uh? And I go in recut those songs,

641
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 5: those songs, those aren't records, those are all you know, remakes,

642
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 5: you know, And you got.

643
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: Websites dedicated to the top twenty Natalie perform Ntie.

644
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 4: Natalie's was till Jordan, what you want to do for love?

645
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 5: Oh? I forgot all this love well and and and

646
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 5: jael Vert I remember that one.

647
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 3: Uh.

648
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 5: I've been so many places.

649
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 4: Song for you, A song for you? So can I

650
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 4: assume that. That's when made the the the relationship with

651
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 4: Mary for I'm Going down. Uh look, man, did you

652
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 4: do the New York undercover stuff first? Or did you?

653
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 4: Because I know you produced when we first met, you produced.

654
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Here's the interesting thing. A lot

655
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 5: of the young artists after we worked together because they

656
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,439
Speaker 5: never worked with the old head you know, that's Traight

657
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 5: and Escape s w V the earlier take. They never

658
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 5: a lot of them never really worked with a vocal producer,

659
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 5: you know. And I found that out, and so they

660
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 5: would ask me. They come and to New York on

661
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 5: the cover and say, yo, man, could you cut on

662
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 5: my album?

663
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: Because Erica did stay on here? And I was like,

664
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 2: was that before after she put that on her album?

665
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 5: Before she did New York? That's on New York? I

666
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 5: did redid that for di'angelo on the get.

667
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 4: Off the Yeah you did change?

668
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, And that's getting crazy.

669
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 4: And how so, how do you like doing vocals? I

670
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 4: hate doing vocals.

671
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 5: I love it. That's that's that's my ultimate That's the tip.

672
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 4: I will be calling you from now on the tip of.

673
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 5: The iceberg is vocals. I always say this, every hit

674
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 5: is a nursery rhyme. But you got to learn how

675
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 5: to make it your nursery rhyme. There's no hit that

676
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 5: you can't home. There's no hit record that you heard

677
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 5: that you can't hum the melody even if you don't

678
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 5: know the words. It's nursery rhymes.

679
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 4: Already known next year's retrospective episode that it's gonna be

680
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 4: Bill's favorite episode literally taking notes.

681
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 5: But think about that, that that concept. There's no hit

682
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 5: that you ever heard that you love that you couldn't Yeah,

683
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 5: what was your What was it like producing k C vocals?

684
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 5: Because that was when he was like, okay, bothly kse

685
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 5: that comes. The first night we worked, said sometimes you

686
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 5: don't nail it. But what I always did if we

687
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 5: don't nail something on the first night, I make a

688
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 5: copy of what you did and then give you right

689
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 5: behind that a version with no vocal so you could

690
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 5: work out. So casey, the first night we didn't quite

691
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 5: get it, I'm like cool, ma ain't no problem. Came

692
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 5: back about three nights later and we nailed it. The

693
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 5: reason why I'm saying that was so special, I'll never forget.

694
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 5: He asked me, said, man, I'm too making I call

695
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 5: my parents. He called his parents and put the phone

696
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 5: up to the speakers. He said, Man, I'm doing Bobby

697
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 5: Womax song and he nailed it, man, And I was

698
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 5: just so proud of you know, he was a hard worker, Mary,

699
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 5: hard worker. The Angelo is off the hook.

700
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 7: Notice he didn't say hard work, no no, no, no

701
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 7: no no no.

702
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 4: I meant.

703
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 5: And I know that YouTube. I was supposed to work

704
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 5: on the album that you did.

705
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 4: We're still here.

706
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 5: That's my that's my man, that's my man. We're still

707
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 5: and I'll never forget to see. I was doing, uh

708
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 5: working with D'Angelo and Spike Lee called me. I mean

709
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 5: he called me to do the thing with Dangelo for

710
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 5: the get was to get on the bus. So we're

711
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 5: in the studio and Spike calls me, said, man tunes,

712
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 5: I'm gonna send some Obis. He said, I just got

713
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 5: Curtis's song grant a New World Order. We were in

714
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 5: the studio, man, he rushes it over. Now. I told you, man,

715
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 5: my main influence, my first influence was Courtis. So I

716
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 5: put the the the C d N and I hear

717
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 5: this man and I said, stop it. I said, turn

718
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 5: all the lights off. Mm hmmm. Sat out there to listen. Man.

719
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 5: It wasn't a dry eye, and I realized this cat recorded.

720
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 4: It on his back.

721
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 6: He was paralyzed, And.

722
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 5: I said, this cat got more soul. The reason why

723
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 5: I'm saying this fast forward during New York under Cover,

724
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 5: I called Curtis for an episode to do that in

725
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 5: New World Order. I didn't redo it that we actually

726
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 5: used the CD. We alone in the room, in the

727
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 5: dressing room before that before he takes a ship, and

728
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 5: I tell him I'm telling him getting a chance to

729
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 5: tell Curtis. I mean, we knew each other over the

730
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 5: years before that, but I had an opportunity to tell him,

731
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,439
Speaker 5: you what my main inspiration man to want to write.

732
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,760
Speaker 5: And for some reason there was a moment was nobody

733
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 5: in the room but me and him. I don't even

734
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,919
Speaker 5: know how that happened. And I said, and I didn't

735
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 5: really even have a right to ask him me. I said, Curtis,

736
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 5: you paralyzed. I said, what do you miss most? And

737
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 5: what right do I have that? I mean, you know,

738
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,720
Speaker 5: you think my guy says sax Or, I can't walk,

739
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 5: you know, he told me man and I broke down

740
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,399
Speaker 5: in tears. He he said, man tooms, I can't play

741
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:08,479
Speaker 5: my guitar damn oh I know. Now fast forward again,

742
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 5: about a year after he dies, I'm sitting at the crib.

743
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 5: I get a call, uh from uh Warner Brothers said,

744
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 5: somebody's here wants to talk to you. I don't know

745
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 5: who it was. Put him on. It was Curtis's publicist

746
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 5: who was there that night. She said, I too made.

747
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 5: We've been trying to find you for over a year.

748
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 5: Curtis when he died, told me to make sure that

749
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 5: we thanked two people, you and Eric Clapton. I don't.

750
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 5: I'm like, I don't want, I don't know what what

751
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 5: to thank me? What are you talking about? He said?

752
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 5: The last two weeks well, Curtis was making transition to death.

753
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 5: He had us play his performance in New York on

754
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 5: the cover over that helped him make his transition. And

755
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 5: now I dropped the phone because I'm the man that

756
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 5: inspired me.

757
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 6: You inspired him, help him.

758
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,839
Speaker 5: I can't even say I helped him. But she said

759
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 5: two people we wanted to think. I mean, can you

760
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 5: imagine that cycle yes, getting yes, getting heavy in here,

761
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,439
Speaker 5: I say this and I didn't touch on this. Got

762
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 5: Remember who I've lost? I lost Teddy, I lost Phyllis,

763
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 5: I lost Donny Hathaway. I work with these people.

764
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 3: Man, measure your soul, measure like aunt may name side

765
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 3: should be.

766
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 8: And I'm so happy you not together.

767
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 5: No such thing as bad for I'll tell you you love.

768
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 4: What's up?

769
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 5: So, like I tell you question, vocals is my thing.

770
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 4: That's that's why I have power to you.

771
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 6: Brother.

772
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 4: I can barely get through this episode.

773
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,879
Speaker 5: Look, that's why. Look vocals, that's why we're talking. Man,

774
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 5: that's that's extra. So you know how you know that line.

775
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 5: There's no denying. Okay, now Phyllis's used to Okay, that's

776
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 5: the take. I ain't. I'm like, no, man, it's good,

777
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 5: but there's something we can get better. I think we

778
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 5: took that note maybe about four or five times. I did.

779
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 5: It's just something because I heard I was gonna put

780
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 5: an extra reverb on it and let it just melt.

781
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 5: And then when you listen to that mix, it just

782
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 5: goes so after she finished it. Motherfucker's that it. That's

783
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 5: a that's a classic story. A cat named David Nathan

784
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 5: was there that night. He was right and just doing

785
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 5: an article on Phyllis for Blues and Souls I think

786
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 5: it was, and he talks about that moment, you know,

787
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 5: and yeah, man, but that was phyllis. I loved it.

788
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 5: I loved it. Now I'm gonna give you another story

789
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 5: if you don't mind, y'all got your j'n.

790
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 6: I got to make old man Roland hey Man keep going.

791
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 5: Back together again.

792
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 4: I don't know if we walked out here and we've

793
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 4: been in the group chat Piers.

794
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 5: We're working on that, Donny. Most people know, you know,

795
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 5: had some mental challenges. You're emotional, and that night he

796
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 5: was having he was struggling, you know, and he broke

797
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 5: down and ran out the studio to the bathroom. So

798
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 5: I go out of the control room and I opened

799
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 5: the bathroom door. He's in the corner crying, I mean, sobbing.

800
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 5: So I was like, oh my god. So I got

801
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 5: I went down on the floor and kind of crawled

802
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 5: up next to him. I said, brother, what's what's happening?

803
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 5: He said to him, they trying to kill me. I said, who,

804
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 5: He said, They're trying to kill me. They got my

805
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 5: brain hooked up to a machine. Now I'm teared up.

806
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 5: So I stayed in there with him for a few minutes.

807
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 5: So I said, I'm gonna let him have his I said, look, Donnie,

808
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 5: tell you what you when you feel like you're ready

809
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 5: to take it, hit it, you know, just come on.

810
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 5: So he came out. He tried it, and I knew

811
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 5: he couldn't. I stopped the session. That was a Saturday night.

812
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 5: I said, man, we just come back Monday, man, he said, tunes,

813
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 5: I'll kill this. About five thirty that morning, phone rings,

814
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 5: I pick up. Somebody's crying. I said, well, who's this?

815
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 5: She said, this is Roberta. She said to him too,

816
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 5: Donnie's dead. Wow, he jumped that night.

817
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 6: Shit.

818
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 5: So here's why I always emphasize that. Of everything I've

819
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,479
Speaker 5: been so fortunate to be involved with Back Together Again,

820
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 5: it's the deepest piece. The last two songs that Donnie

821
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 5: did Closer, I mean that were popular and Back Together Again.

822
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 5: I had a part and this great artist, the last

823
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 5: two songs he did I was involved with. What was

824
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 5: so the vocal? What was the okay, just the trick.

825
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 5: I'm telling you this, So Back Together Again wasn't finished.

826
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 5: If you listen to this mix after I leave, Donnie

827
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 5: only did the first uh no, the first yeah, the

828
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 5: first release. We can uh make it better, try to

829
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 5: make it.

830
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 4: It got to be Wait, is it people.

831
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 5: No, no, no, mess up, Yo, you're right here. Okay, listen.

832
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 5: So back in the day, man, I mean, y'all have

833
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 5: the advantage of technology. Wasn't no physically cut the tape

834
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 5: with with with the razor blade. So what I did

835
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 5: was make a copy of the first edited in the

836
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 5: second time. That's the same performance. And if I didn't

837
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 5: tell you that, you would have never known the other

838
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 5: trick because he had died, we couldn't do it a tag.

839
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 5: So when they come back, the only thing that's emphasized

840
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 5: in the background the burden don't come back Donny, because

841
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 5: I knew it would be stupid. So the whole tag,

842
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 5: it is just the instrumental in the background being being manipulated.

843
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 4: I would have.

844
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 5: Never ever thought about that.

845
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 4: Yo, how do we almost get this episode?

846
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 5: And not a question? I just forgot that was did

847
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 5: you do heavens? No?

848
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 3: No?

849
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 5: No, okay, okay, no, that that was wait before me.

850
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 5: So just like I said, question, listen to that. And

851
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 5: if I didn't tell you that, it just sounded like

852
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 5: it was done.

853
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 4: Like that, I mean without you being over analytical since

854
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 4: since you kind of opened it. Because I know nothing

855
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 4: about Donnie Hathaway as a person and that sort of thing.

856
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 4: And I don't exactly as the greatest ever.

857
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 5: And he hasn't been reduced to a footnote. There's not

858
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 5: even a good documentary. Only he was every singer's favorite singer.

859
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, I mean was he Was he a

860
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 4: normal cat with a extraordinary voice? Was he an a

861
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 4: centric cat?

862
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 5: Well? Remember I meet him on the Closer. He had

863
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 5: already had a couple of nervous breakdowns.

864
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 4: I never knew none of that stuff.

865
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 5: Yes, so here was the deep part. And then this

866
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 5: is literally the first time I meet him. I'm at

867
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 5: Roberta's apartment to come to Tombes. Come over and want

868
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 5: you to meet Donnie. And we're talking. This is a

869
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 5: literal thing. We're talking. He said tunes. Look at that gorilla,

870
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 5: And I'm like, wow, how we gonna do a record?

871
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 6: Okay?

872
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,359
Speaker 5: I sit down and played the song. He said, move over.

873
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 5: I played it once he sat down, played the exact

874
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 5: voicings of every quart. Then I realized he's a genius.

875
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 5: He had photo that that thing. And then later I

876
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 5: found out his roommate in at at Howard Leewill Hudson

877
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,439
Speaker 5: said he ran out and bought sketches in Spain when

878
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 5: it came out, and then you had it, you know,

879
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,439
Speaker 5: we had the photograph. He played it down, he listened

880
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 5: to it in one night. The next day he was

881
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 5: playing all the cuts from sketches in Spain, so that's

882
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,439
Speaker 5: what he had. The communications was off when he said

883
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 5: at the at the keyboard man or stepped in front

884
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 5: of the mic. You heard it. You heard it. So

885
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 5: I didn't know him other than that way.

886
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 2: That's so interesting that both of them were mental illness.

887
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 2: I was just saying Phyllis too. It's just interesting in

888
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 2: two different kinds.

889
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 5: Of Kenny called me when you know, when t when Phyllis,

890
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 5: you know, took her life, and he told me she

891
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 5: was obsessed with she was dated. She's all these young

892
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 5: you know, she didn't think that the singers looked up

893
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 5: to her, the m the Mary's and them.

894
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 4: That's see it.

895
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 7: It's funny you say that, cause I was just coming around,

896
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 7: like learning who she was. Around the time that she passed.

897
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 7: I think, don't wanna change the world, had just been

898
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 7: a hit or whatever. So I was just getting into

899
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,439
Speaker 7: Phyllis and then like you know a few months later,

900
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 7: I'm here, I'm gonna listen to the radio and they

901
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 7: come over and saying, you know, singing philis Heimon is

902
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 7: Yea is committed.

903
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 5: You know, so we do it wasn't you know? I

904
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 5: loved me? If you noticed there was never a second

905
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 5: na to Maine Lucas production with Phyllis. Why was that?

906
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 4: Clive?

907
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 5: No, Clive was begging me, no, this is what happened.

908
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 5: Clive was like, I took what I took the record

909
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 5: to him and planning it for him. He spins around,

910
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 5: and look, I respect Clive cause he's serious about the music.

911
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 5: So he spins around and he's got back to us.

912
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,919
Speaker 5: You know. I give him the the the the dat

913
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 5: to play listen to the whole album every song. He

914
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 5: spins back around. He said, well, I'm too may me

915
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 5: and registered he's he said, I'm too many personally, I'm

916
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 5: a little disappointed. Alright, So so what I went through

917
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 5: the mars, I don't care. I told him right there.

918
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 5: I said, man, that's fine, I don't care. I said,

919
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 5: I'll tell you what. This would be the biggest record

920
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 5: she's ever had. The record comes out, it is out

921
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 5: for two weeks. I'm let I'm at the crib. I

922
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 5: get a call from Phyllis's manager. I forgot the brother's name.

923
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 5: He's passed, but I knew him. He was a friend

924
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 5: of Indugal's. He's the original cat that called me about Hey, man,

925
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,240
Speaker 5: maybe we can do he said. There was an interview

926
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,399
Speaker 5: that came out. He said, I'm calling you man because

927
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 5: we cool. I don't want nobody else to tell you.

928
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 5: I forgot the name of the magazine. He said, go

929
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 5: get it. Phillis did an interview, man, and he said,

930
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 5: and she's dogging you, I was saying, And I was like,

931
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 5: so you know me. I jumped in the car, man,

932
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 5: I shoot, go get it. I had to come over

933
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 5: to New York. I didn't I get back to the crib.

934
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 5: It was one of them things. The cat doing the

935
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 5: interview was into I hate this. You know, he's doing

936
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 5: this R and B. I expected more jazz, and Phillis

937
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 5: kind of played into it. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I did.

938
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 5: You know, but I too, May has his way, you know.

939
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 5: I wanted to use my musicians and my background singers,

940
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 5: but he has this system. Yeah, most people do, you know?

941
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 5: And I read it, man, And I never was angry

942
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 5: with Phillis. But what I knew was I couldn't do

943
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 5: another record because I couldn't write for you. How can

944
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 5: I write for you? And I know your original vibe is.

945
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 6: You don't believe it. Yeah, you don't trust me.

946
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 5: Fortunately about four weeks later. Okay, but what is the

947
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:23,919
Speaker 5: point I'm making? See, producers, you can always produce somebody else.

948
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 5: An artist has to live on the successful failure of

949
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 5: that record. That's how they work, that's how they get bookings.

950
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 5: And I just knew I couldn't put my heart in it.

951
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 5: So rather than do a BS record and look, it

952
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 5: was some big paper on the table, it wasn't.

953
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:42,959
Speaker 4: It's just it so, I mean, not in retrospect, even

954
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 4: after the fact that the records are proven hit. You know,

955
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 4: you guys never spoke after that, like, hey, no, Phyllis

956
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 4: called me. We got some magic, so should we?

957
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 5: But okay, what's the magic? We did it? The magic

958
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 5: was captured, but I know you didn't.

959
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 4: Maybe she was just scared. See, well, that's that's what

960
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 4: I'm want to ask. You were geniuses, and I know

961
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 4: again we rarely put women in the genius category or whatever.

962
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 4: We over use the word. But you know, artists are

963
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 4: so troubled and you you, I mean you went through

964
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 4: a slew of them, so I'm certain that to get

965
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 4: the magic performance you got to observe them and their

966
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 4: hanger onto the break room, whatever drug activity.

967
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 5: First of all, on vocals, my rule was, there's nobody

968
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 5: in this room. Nobody, because I tell you the vocal.

969
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 5: When you're doing vocals, that's when the microscope and if

970
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 5: if you singing and you're looking through that glass, you're performing.

971
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 5: If people in there, you can't help it. I don't

972
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 5: want to performance, I want to delivery. So nobody's ever

973
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 5: allowed to be in there, so you don't have that

974
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 5: distraction on vocals, makes sense, That's so that's that's the

975
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 5: first time i' heard the scribe that way, because I've

976
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 5: heard so many other producers say that they're trying to

977
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 5: capture a performance. But I'm not trying to capture, man,

978
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 5: I'm trying to deliver delivery, you know. C O D.

979
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 4: There you go? Did we miss anything?

980
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 5: Now?

981
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 4: Now I'm afraid to wrap it up because okay, so

982
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 4: was it true that Wrigley tried to come after you?

983
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, they want to sue me. Wait what juicy fruit?

984
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 4: So wait, how did time out? How did you know

985
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 4: about this from your.

986
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 5: In Japan. I think it's the first time I mentioned

987
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 5: it public because I said, I don't there's not a

988
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 5: lot of take don't tape the stuff of me. So

989
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 5: I get a call, big big law firm represented Wriggleyes.

990
01:00:59,200 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 5: So I gotta go up.

991
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 2: Man.

992
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 5: I walk in this room. Man the table as long

993
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 5: as this block, I mean, lawyers on both sides. So

994
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 5: they going through. They got the album cover, they're going

995
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 5: through all this. So they start questioning me, and you

996
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 5: showed up with no no lawyer. I didn't need nothing

997
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 5: cause I knew WHEREY was gonna go and I had

998
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 5: check made it. I knew where I was going. Uh so,

999
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 5: because I knew ultimately it was gonna get to mister

1000
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 5: to me, what do you mean when you say you

1001
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 5: can lick me everywhere? I said, well, obviously it's not

1002
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 5: about gum. I said, it's about all sex. I ain't

1003
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 5: never seen some of red faces in my life. That

1004
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 5: was the end of the interview for me. It was like, okay, okay,

1005
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 5: please leave. You know, but I understood where they was

1006
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 5: going and I knew I just knew what they was

1007
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 5: gonna say. But it ain't know, you know, and that

1008
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 5: I hate to even keep talking about that line, but

1009
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 5: y'all have no idea d how crazy it was. We

1010
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 5: couldn't even cut the video. They made me yes, And

1011
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 5: I hated that because Epic was just so scared of that.

1012
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 5: And at that time, one of the things I was

1013
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 5: proud of we as far as single sales, we were

1014
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 5: doing what Michael was doing with that record, and that

1015
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 5: record really never crossed over to pop and my my

1016
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 5: thing is man. And remember that was also the beginning

1017
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 5: of black videos where you had to People will tell

1018
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 5: you had to take them some of the blackout and

1019
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 5: I never did that. And when we did, you mean,

1020
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 5: you mean he turn that off of here?

1021
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 3: Right?

1022
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 5: We go? Okay, I go through the struggles of hiring

1023
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 5: a black production team to do you mean he we

1024
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 5: walk out on the set the first day we flew

1025
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 5: out to California to do it. In the audience, it's

1026
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 5: eighty five percent white people couples and about fifteen percent

1027
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 5: black couples. I said, look, man, I got to be

1028
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 5: honest to my audience. I said, you don't see Bruce

1029
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 5: Springsteen singing, you know, brother, you know eighty five percent?

1030
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 5: I said, be honest to your audience. And so I said, man,

1031
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 5: we gotta shoot do it tomorrow. The cat said no, Man,

1032
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 5: well you know, I said, well, I'll pay for it.

1033
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 5: We ain't do it. I'm not doing this to the

1034
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 5: people that loved our music. So we never did that.

1035
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 5: I watched a lot of groups to try to get

1036
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 5: on MTV, and only other voice that was out there

1037
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 5: with that was Rick James. MTV wouldn't play any black

1038
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 5: videos until you know the famous thing when the Epics

1039
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 5: Sony said they pull all their videos if they didn't

1040
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,480
Speaker 5: play Billy Jean. That's how crazy it was. But I

1041
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 5: saw a lot of cats. The music got real square.

1042
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 4: You tell the truth. Because back when, like I used

1043
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 4: to be really addicted to Lee Bailey's radio score letscope, Yeah,

1044
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 4: and uh, I remember there really being a man just

1045
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 4: like an instant backlash of like when Cameo really started

1046
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:02,439
Speaker 4: to get their.

1047
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 6: Pop shit on word up and.

1048
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 4: Especially with the Candy video, Like people were calling Lee

1049
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 4: Bailey complaining like, how come no brothers, how come little

1050
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 4: sisters in these videos?

1051
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 5: And oh no, that was a no no, that was

1052
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 5: a no no. Now. Look and I'll tell you that now,

1053
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 5: Juicy Fruit, there was barely any black videos. The only

1054
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 5: place I saw black videos was what's the Brother Ralph? Yeah,

1055
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 5: and you had to have that was Channel Video thirty one.

1056
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 5: But when we did Juicy Flu, we was on tour.

1057
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 5: We flew in cut that like a d a day

1058
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 5: and I wasn't into the complexion. That didn't matter, and

1059
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 5: it's it's just like non racial looking a woman. And

1060
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 5: I said, well, okay, what we're doing this video? Boom?

1061
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 5: Then I noticed that was really what started being And

1062
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 5: my daughter came to me, Benian, my youngest daughter, she

1063
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 5: was about five or six. One day she said, Baba,

1064
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 5: you know that's father. And she said, I guess I

1065
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 5: can't be in no videos because she's chocolate. And she

1066
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 5: was referring to a prince. She said, everything I see, well, no, no,

1067
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 5: I'm not saying no, you ain't right, but I mean

1068
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 5: I'm saying that became the thing for this bullshit they

1069
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 5: call crossover. I said, this is bullshit crossover and can't

1070
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 5: get black. That's what's happening here. It ain't getting back.

1071
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 5: You can't get black because why do blacks have to

1072
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 5: always cross over? I mean, I said, you don't ask

1073
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 5: the Rolling Stones man, you know, they got to do funk.

1074
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 5: Although they were funky, but all that onus was on

1075
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 5: us and I spoke out on it and it was like,

1076
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 5: oh man, this cat is out. No, it wasn't, Dad.

1077
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 5: This is the truth. This is the truth, the truth.

1078
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 5: And so you mean he obviously there's a brown skinned

1079
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 5: woman in the lead. And I did that on purpose

1080
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 5: and it was awful because a lot of young sisters

1081
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 5: got messed up. And I helped Nelson did a book

1082
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 5: called The Deaths of Rhythm and Blues, and uh, I

1083
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:14,439
Speaker 5: was you know, we were talking a lot during that time.

1084
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 5: Videos helped kill arm b man, not kill it, you know, literally,

1085
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 5: but it was like the visual became on in the audience.

1086
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 5: You know, I said, man, so, so what slid Stone

1087
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 5: and how he looked al green, how he looked No,

1088
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 5: it's how they made us feel. Then it became your

1089
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 5: brand and I got a thing with that. It's funny

1090
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 5: you mentioned that because the thing that I remember the

1091
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 5: most as a kid, because usually fruit came out. I

1092
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 5: think I was like eighty four eighty, so I was four,

1093
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 5: So I remember that record and the thing I can

1094
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 5: remember was the braids and like the on the braids

1095
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 5: and how the thing I was I was looking at

1096
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 5: I was like, man, they ain't got Jerry Curls was

1097
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 5: like yo, I was like, I'm fucking with this already.

1098
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 5: It was so funny man, because they played us, they

1099
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 5: played us in the movie Biggie movie. Oh it was

1100
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 5: Rick James looking. I said, I bit that, but that

1101
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 5: was like a rough because Duatha called me when she saw.

1102
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 4: So being as being as though I guess some almost

1103
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 4: twenty plus, almost twenty five years later, Uh, the aftermath

1104
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 4: of Juicy and what it's meant to the hip hop generation.

1105
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 4: Whereas now you know, people hear Biggie's voice yeah, as

1106
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 4: the default version before they even think of the original.

1107
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 5: Didn't know most of them didn't even know the original.

1108
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 4: Right, So with Uh, as many times as that song

1109
01:07:53,760 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 4: has been interpolated and sampled, is it at least the

1110
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 4: the I know, the myth of the I'm always hearing

1111
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 4: these guys on doing interviews or whatever, like Steely Dan

1112
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 4: might make a joke about like that sort of thing.

1113
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 4: Is it is? And I'm not exact figure whatever, but

1114
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 4: is the myth true of like, hey, just one great

1115
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 4: hit that's used by the Juicy has been the least

1116
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 4: using ninety maybe a hundred plus Yeah.

1117
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:34,360
Speaker 5: My favorite version was Akisha Coles missing Yeah, let it go, yo, man,

1118
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:37,840
Speaker 5: I don't know the playing, but I should will on you.

1119
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 8: I don't want you men? How n the stand by

1120
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:52,759
Speaker 8: you stay home mad? I can't explain many times I trush,

1121
01:08:53,120 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 8: how many times I crashed thinking about mine wings, couldn't

1122
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 8: get it down.

1123
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 9: Someone in love compound don't want love you the right

1124
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:22,520
Speaker 9: way anyways?

1125
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 4: So do you have to for each time that song's

1126
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 4: do you have to determine the percentage that you wanted

1127
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 4: that song?

1128
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 2: Like?

1129
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:36,400
Speaker 4: Whereas okay, if.

1130
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 5: Depended you know what depended on how much of it

1131
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 5: they use? The thing that was interesting about Juicy, Like

1132
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 5: I said when I wrote it, the beat wasn't the

1133
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:50,879
Speaker 5: main thing, but if you think about it, it's probably

1134
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 5: the most identifiable beat in R and B.

1135
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 6: My favorite use of it was one guy.

1136
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:02,720
Speaker 5: Yeah God, that was That was That was the That

1137
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 5: was the first version, I mean the first time.

1138
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 4: That it was sample was twice right, because he used

1139
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:10,479
Speaker 4: it twice on that you see. Matter of fact, he

1140
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 4: was a three times twice? Isn't this dj? Oh my god?

1141
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 4: He used to three times on the album.

1142
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 5: This DJ was a different This DJ was twice on

1143
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:23,519
Speaker 5: that first. Oh yeah he did, okay, yeah, okay, welcome

1144
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 5: for the uh like the West Coast really taking it

1145
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:33,679
Speaker 5: the West Coast really, I always felt the West Coast

1146
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 5: hip hop was funk. Yeah, you're more so than the East.

1147
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 4: He just more jazz, yeah yeah, and more fun.

1148
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:44,719
Speaker 5: And so they vibed right away. And I always think,

1149
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:48,000
Speaker 5: young people, this is how I found out that I

1150
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 5: think we had something with Juicy. I'm I'm sitting at

1151
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 5: the create a cat named Scott Folks who helped them

1152
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 5: the remix twelve inches and back then twelve inch meant

1153
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 5: you're still using the original, you ain't bringing the other

1154
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:04,640
Speaker 5: or redoing it, and yeah, you just is extended. And

1155
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 5: he said, Man, Tunes, I want you to come with

1156
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 5: me to this club up in the Bronx. It was

1157
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 5: with grand Master Spunk, the first hip hop club, the Roxy.

1158
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 5: So he said, man, can you come this weekend? I

1159
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 5: said yeah, Man, he said, I'm gonna come and pick

1160
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 5: you up. I said, but you want to be ready

1161
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 5: around ten He said no.

1162
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:23,240
Speaker 4: Round three.

1163
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 5: He said, man, I'm gonna take you. Man. He said, man,

1164
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 5: they spend Juicy around four thirty. I want you to

1165
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 5: see the hip hop generation's response to it. I never

1166
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:39,680
Speaker 5: thought that you could dance the juicy or just and

1167
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 5: the floor just And I said, it's just that you

1168
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 5: write something.

1169
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 4: He was making a ballot.

1170
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 5: No, I thought I was making this.

1171
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 4: It's kind of a chill out.

1172
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 5: Yeah it's a barberie you see. Yeah, this late, But

1173
01:11:54,600 --> 01:12:03,000
Speaker 5: I'm into these chords.

1174
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 4: Right in your head? Is Juicy a ballot with some

1175
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 4: behind it?

1176
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 5: No, it's it's my, it's it's it's my. It's my

1177
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:11,719
Speaker 5: speed zone, mid temple fi, mid tempo funk.

1178
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:16,519
Speaker 4: But as you're creating it, are you you're just thinking like, Okay,

1179
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 4: there's some filler on the album.

1180
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:21,679
Speaker 5: Or no, Like we had finished the album. The album

1181
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 5: was done. I had cut this, all the songs. I said.

1182
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 5: What happened was that night everybody went back home. I

1183
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 5: called everybody back up. After I laid that. Somebody came

1184
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:35,639
Speaker 5: back about one o'clock in the morning. We cut that

1185
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 5: cut it that night.

1186
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:37,799
Speaker 4: Literally.

1187
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:43,840
Speaker 5: One thing, one rule I have when I'm writing, whatever

1188
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 5: hook that comes to my head, that's always the first hook.

1189
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 5: That's the hook. And I'm listening back as we laid it,

1190
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 5: I said, Juicy, sometimes what I like to do now

1191
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 5: that record, Twatha was on tour. Was still with U

1192
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 5: Roxy Music.

1193
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:00,719
Speaker 6: Oh wow.

1194
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 5: She was in Europe, damn. So we had a couple

1195
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 5: of days off some fluor back from uh London. So

1196
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,800
Speaker 5: we cut the vocals that night. I'm writing a verse

1197
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:16,799
Speaker 5: as she's performing, like the first verse. So she's performing

1198
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:18,560
Speaker 5: it and I'm writing the second verse. I said, I

1199
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 5: wanted to put some pressure on myself. I wrote the

1200
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 5: lyrics literally that night while she's singing, h we you know,

1201
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 5: we wrapped it up. She flew back, you know, and

1202
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 5: you know is that you uh? Is that your voice?

1203
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:33,840
Speaker 5: I needed?

1204
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:34,519
Speaker 4: Girl?

1205
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 5: We had so much. If you notice, I would do

1206
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 5: these little outtakes like when you me and he it's

1207
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 5: the monogamy mix.

1208
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 4: Uh, just to reiterate, yeah.

1209
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 5: So we just let that do do do bitter, but

1210
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 5: do do do? I said, look, man, let's just go

1211
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:02,679
Speaker 5: in and just freestyle like we're talking.

1212
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 8: You know.

1213
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:06,719
Speaker 4: Well uh.

1214
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 5: Oh man, Look, I just want to thank this is

1215
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 5: such I want to thank y'all so much. This has

1216
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 5: been This is this is.

1217
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 4: Layer layers upon layers upon layers of wisdom that you've

1218
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:18,000
Speaker 4: given us.

1219
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 5: And well that was given to me. I ain't got nothing, man,

1220
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:24,599
Speaker 5: You're challenged, but I'm challenging. Man, look all the cats

1221
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 5: that was blessed to be around.

1222
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 4: Man Fronte, what did you learn today?

1223
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:29,640
Speaker 2: Bro?

1224
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:36,720
Speaker 5: Oh my god, he's like a walking sage. It's so

1225
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 5: much like so much game. Like I hope people like

1226
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 5: really listen to this interview. And it's not even it's

1227
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:44,360
Speaker 5: I mean, you're talking music, but it applies just to

1228
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 5: life life, you know what I mean. Like, it's not even,

1229
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 5: it just applies to so many things. I'm just listening to. Yeah, Man,

1230
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 5: just thank you, just thank you for the music.

1231
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 4: I grew up on your music.

1232
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:55,800
Speaker 6: I've been a lifetime longtime fans.

1233
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:57,519
Speaker 5: You know, and thank you. And like I said, man,

1234
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:00,240
Speaker 5: it just needs to be more of this exchange of

1235
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 5: generational information.

1236
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:04,840
Speaker 4: Man on pay Bill, what did you learn this episode?

1237
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 4: I would say for an atheist, that was very religious

1238
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 4: experience I learned. Are you ready?

1239
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 5: Yeah? Stop playing what you know, play what you don't know?

1240
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 4: Simplexity, Yeah, Webster's lookout, no leaning right now. We got

1241
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 4: half a glass of music, which I love. And every

1242
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:27,759
Speaker 4: height is a nursery rhyme, which is my fucking life. Literally,

1243
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:31,720
Speaker 4: Uh I remember your name?

1244
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:36,519
Speaker 10: Yeah, I reiterate with both of both of them. Said,

1245
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 10: and the successful transition from jazz to R and B

1246
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:44,719
Speaker 10: the natural transition at.

1247
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:47,680
Speaker 6: That exact moment, uh, you know.

1248
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:50,639
Speaker 10: Unforced because you see a lot of bands and artists

1249
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 10: try and keep up with the time so forth. But

1250
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 10: it seemed like you were at the right age, maybe

1251
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:57,400
Speaker 10: at the right time, with the right amount of experience

1252
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:02,120
Speaker 10: to do it legitimately, to do R and B with

1253
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 10: with real musicality and with with jazz in it.

1254
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:07,599
Speaker 6: So yeah, that's pretty cool.

1255
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 4: Boss, Bill. W did you learn today?

1256
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 6: Man?

1257
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 7: I learned that so many great moments in music history

1258
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 7: you just seem to happen is afterthoughts, Like you know,

1259
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:19,559
Speaker 7: Juicy Fruit, which is I was telling the mirror before

1260
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 7: we started. It's one of the first songs I ever

1261
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 7: remember hearing as a kid like that an Atomic Dogs.

1262
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 7: So who knows, that's probably why I turned out the

1263
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 7: way I did. But yeah, it just seems like it's

1264
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 7: it's fascinating how like we hear all these stories about

1265
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:36,519
Speaker 7: these songs and these these these moments that we we've

1266
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 7: kind of come to to fetishize, you know, in our lives,

1267
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 7: and it just turns out they were just kind of

1268
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 7: throwaway moments in most people's lives.

1269
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:46,639
Speaker 4: You weren't really thinking about it. You just did it.

1270
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:49,920
Speaker 7: And you went on with it and changed the change

1271
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:53,280
Speaker 7: the world. So I think that's something that's that's good

1272
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:55,800
Speaker 7: to always keep keep in mind, is you know, you

1273
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:57,880
Speaker 7: never really know what you're doing until after you've done it.

1274
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:01,599
Speaker 5: And the people, the people de tming that. You know,

1275
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:05,720
Speaker 5: music don't come from you, it comes through you. You know.

1276
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 5: I always equated, like you're watching the television, those images

1277
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 5: are not coming from that box. It's the signals that

1278
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:16,599
Speaker 5: that box is picking up. So I never was challenged

1279
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,840
Speaker 5: with the ego thing. And plus, man, look who I

1280
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:23,000
Speaker 5: played with? How dare I even think? Look, I ain't

1281
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 5: did nothing, man, compared to the cats that raised me. Man,

1282
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:29,680
Speaker 5: then that's how you got to look at it. I

1283
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 5: see cats get a hit and trip, and if you know,

1284
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 5: if you don't put the work in, the worst thing

1285
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 5: in the world is a one hit wonder. Because you

1286
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:40,599
Speaker 5: get a hit, you don't know how to get back there,

1287
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 5: because you ain't got no railroad tracks.

1288
01:17:43,439 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 2: Damn everybody to go back and listen to this episode

1289
01:17:55,360 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 2: A creative process, intuition into technique and everything. Just coffee table.

1290
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 5: One last story, Yes, real quick one more story, one

1291
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:08,720
Speaker 5: more story, because I just thought about this while y'all

1292
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:11,200
Speaker 5: were talking, and I appreciate everything y'all said, Man, I

1293
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:15,200
Speaker 5: really do. How many songs could get lost? The close

1294
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:18,360
Speaker 5: I Get to You? Roberta invites me over to the

1295
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:23,240
Speaker 5: listening session. I'm an urticant is there. I'm sitting on

1296
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 5: the couch, you know, and I'm just nobody, you know.

1297
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 5: He listens to the whole album. It's the President of Atlantic,

1298
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 5: true honest to God's story. He says, I love everything,

1299
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:39,240
Speaker 5: but the closes I Get to You. To this day,

1300
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 5: I always thank Roberta because she rumbled. I heard it.

1301
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:46,519
Speaker 5: They went out in the hallway, it got loud. To

1302
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,679
Speaker 5: keep it on the album? He wanted to take it off.

1303
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 5: He said, I'll never forget. When he came back, he said,

1304
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 5: it's boring and repetious. Okay, So he comes back in

1305
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 5: and says, all right, we'll keep it on, but it's

1306
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 5: never be a single. Name me the first single off

1307
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:05,240
Speaker 5: that album close Close, No, No, it wasn't the first thing.

1308
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:06,559
Speaker 4: Oh that's what it is.

1309
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 5: It was first single still deep.

1310
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:17,479
Speaker 4: No, you can't you've heard this point technically, Tell me

1311
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 4: what was the first song.

1312
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 5: I don't even remember. Yeah, I think in real life

1313
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 5: you can look this up right now. I think it

1314
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 5: was something called the twenty fourth of December. Oh yeah,

1315
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:27,639
Speaker 5: and I said that'll be over on the twenty fifth.

1316
01:19:30,120 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 4: That is the correct answer.

1317
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:35,280
Speaker 5: So so the album back then, you know, the album

1318
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:37,599
Speaker 5: comes like six or seven weeks after the first single.

1319
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:42,599
Speaker 5: When the album dropped, the DJ's demanded close.

1320
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:46,000
Speaker 2: Get this man a star on the Philly Walker fang.

1321
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:46,720
Speaker 5: That's another thing.

1322
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:49,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's oh yeah. I was going to say that

1323
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 4: I learned that you're from Philadelphia and nobody knows. Most

1324
01:19:55,080 --> 01:19:57,480
Speaker 4: Philadelphians don't know you're from Philadelphia.

1325
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:02,479
Speaker 5: Do you think that is because you're quiet? I will absolutely.

1326
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:09,799
Speaker 6: Make sure we got to talk about the connection with Jesus.

1327
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 4: I forgot. I was gonna say his career.

1328
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 6: Just put that right over there.

1329
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 5: That's good, that's good.

1330
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:21,560
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, we we didn't talk about the

1331
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 4: career in Radio two.

1332
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:28,200
Speaker 5: Uh well real quick Bloud uh my sun Fire and

1333
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:32,599
Speaker 5: uh and dmu uh we're managing be Loud. I met

1334
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:37,439
Speaker 5: be Loud, it brought him to the house. They had

1335
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:42,120
Speaker 5: the demo for the first album, and I listened to

1336
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:45,320
Speaker 5: it and I and he and I talked. He came

1337
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:47,960
Speaker 5: in the basement and we were talking. I said, man,

1338
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:53,960
Speaker 5: why do you have harmonies on every line? I said,

1339
01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:57,200
Speaker 5: if you do that, I can't. I don't know what

1340
01:20:57,240 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 5: the hook is. I said, your hook has got to

1341
01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 5: be I said, you're not comfortable singing and you know

1342
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:10,800
Speaker 5: what you because he had harmonies on everything. So we

1343
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 5: talked and then uh they had cut uh soul system,

1344
01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:21,080
Speaker 5: so uh fire came to me and UH said, look bye, Byn.

1345
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:25,599
Speaker 5: You know there was no melody, the hook was already there.

1346
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 5: Uh you must be bye. But that do do do

1347
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:32,360
Speaker 5: do do do do do do do do do do

1348
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:35,960
Speaker 5: do do do do do do So I put put

1349
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:40,479
Speaker 5: the melody on that and that was this great experience.

1350
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:44,719
Speaker 5: He's he's a monster. He's a monster, and.

1351
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:47,439
Speaker 4: Shout out the quest loving the video.

1352
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:53,160
Speaker 5: You know, yeah, how I cut How I cut vocals? Slyestone,

1353
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:56,599
Speaker 5: Slidestone showed me something. He lived with me for about

1354
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 5: six months and.

1355
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:05,320
Speaker 4: We wait, wait, wait, and like I'm going to four hour.

1356
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 4: How does slid Stone wind up in your house? And

1357
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 4: we've heard many on this show. How do you want?

1358
01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:17,759
Speaker 5: Slidestone? And I cut some tracks? I have what year.

1359
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:21,599
Speaker 4: Like eighty five, eighty four.

1360
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:26,360
Speaker 5: No, no No. After that we also co produced a

1361
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:29,320
Speaker 5: couple of tracks on a track on the Barcade called

1362
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:34,479
Speaker 5: just like a Teeto Tatter. Oh man, we gotta get

1363
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:38,160
Speaker 5: called me. One day I was at the crib and

1364
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 5: a differend of mine, uh called me, uh Tyrone Brunson.

1365
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 4: He did the sur Yes is he from Philly?

1366
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 5: No, he's from DC. And Tyrone he was out somewhere

1367
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:53,400
Speaker 5: and he said, man, look, man, I'm here with Slidestone.

1368
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:55,519
Speaker 5: He wants to know can he talk? You know, would

1369
01:22:55,520 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 5: you talk to him? So slide gets on the phone.

1370
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:02,680
Speaker 5: He said, man, I help. I heard that. You know

1371
01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:05,720
Speaker 5: you you cool, you know, but you know you have

1372
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:11,040
Speaker 5: cats talk. He said, man, can I come out and

1373
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:13,120
Speaker 5: holler with you? Man? I said, cool? So I send

1374
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:16,920
Speaker 5: him a ticket, oh boy, and he came and uh.

1375
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 5: He stayed with me for about six months and we

1376
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 5: went in the studio. Absolute genius.

1377
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:24,640
Speaker 2: Like on a roommate basis.

1378
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:27,280
Speaker 5: I have a house. We were in a roomy he

1379
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:30,439
Speaker 5: you know, Oh, I'm sorry you had a large well no, no, no, no,

1380
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 5: I don't have no mansion. That's that's that's for Hollywood.

1381
01:23:33,479 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 5: But uh, but large enough. Yeah, yeah. And then uh,

1382
01:23:37,160 --> 01:23:41,720
Speaker 5: but I got a chance to see Funk genius and

1383
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:43,240
Speaker 5: he came to me. He said, Man, cause I want

1384
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:45,120
Speaker 5: you to show me them cards. He called him blankets.

1385
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:52,280
Speaker 5: He said, you play blankets, Slide and Miles was gonna

1386
01:23:52,280 --> 01:23:54,800
Speaker 5: do something when I'm this is when I'm with Miles

1387
01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:59,400
Speaker 5: on the Uh. And then Slide told me when he

1388
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:00,800
Speaker 5: came to say, he said, I was gonna do it.

1389
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:03,320
Speaker 5: He said, but then I got scared. He said it

1390
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:05,920
Speaker 5: was Miles. He said, but now I'm getting a chance

1391
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 5: to work with you. So he said, like it's kind

1392
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:11,040
Speaker 5: of you know, So I would show him these chords

1393
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:14,360
Speaker 5: and he showed me more about Funk than I could

1394
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:18,599
Speaker 5: have ever learned. So, like I said, I always say, man,

1395
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:23,080
Speaker 5: I'm just channeling. This cat worked twenty seven hours a day. Man.

1396
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:26,639
Speaker 5: He had a little cassio and he was making songs.

1397
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:30,880
Speaker 5: We cut about four demos and I haven't.

1398
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:36,640
Speaker 2: When's the last time you spoke to him?

1399
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:39,640
Speaker 5: I think Slide called me about eight years ago. I

1400
01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:42,240
Speaker 5: have been talked to him. So were you and Twatha?

1401
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:48,000
Speaker 5: Were y'all ever married or romantic? Anything goes you know, Okay,

1402
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 5: I'm not going in them houses.

1403
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:59,040
Speaker 4: Man, Wait when you mentioned the Marquees. Yeah, when did

1404
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 4: you work with them?

1405
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:03,200
Speaker 5: That was eighty nine on the Animal album Just cat

1406
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 5: here man scary, just like I got the Internet. I see,

1407
01:25:09,080 --> 01:25:15,080
Speaker 5: I'm old. I'm not ancient, just like a Teeto title. Man,

1408
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:18,320
Speaker 5: it's a funky jam. Matter of fact, when Angelo Dangelo

1409
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:18,920
Speaker 5: called me.

1410
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 4: It's probably his song, yo, he I was like, wait,

1411
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:25,360
Speaker 4: did you even.

1412
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 5: Find he will? But it's fun if you have a

1413
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 5: play it, man, just.

1414
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:33,720
Speaker 4: He will know? All right? Is there any artists that

1415
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:37,080
Speaker 4: almost was and didn't happen that we I don't want

1416
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:37,519
Speaker 4: to close.

1417
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:38,719
Speaker 5: I know we're going to close your book.

1418
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:43,240
Speaker 4: Who did you work with that didn't happen, almost happened,

1419
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 4: could have happened.

1420
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:53,280
Speaker 5: No, that's a great question though, because when I stopped,

1421
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 5: did you reject an artist?

1422
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:56,280
Speaker 4: Did someone come to you and say, hey, I want

1423
01:25:56,320 --> 01:25:59,840
Speaker 4: you to reduce it and you were like, I'm good. I

1424
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:00,880
Speaker 4: never sha.

1425
01:26:03,400 --> 01:26:06,160
Speaker 5: And I don't mean like in the new I'm talking,

1426
01:26:06,160 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 5: Oh my god, lucor.

1427
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 4: What here we go?

1428
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 5: Oh my god? Yeah.

1429
01:26:15,160 --> 01:26:17,000
Speaker 7: I try to put I try to put that out

1430
01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:18,479
Speaker 7: of memory to that if I did that.

1431
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 5: I met Luther through to Watfa. Yeah, singing on he's

1432
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:28,559
Speaker 5: doing backgrounds on uh giving on up that album. I

1433
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:33,080
Speaker 5: think with that second album, searched the Rainbow that assault Yeah,

1434
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:42,280
Speaker 5: damn of course voice okay, yes. Lutheror also put the

1435
01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:49,840
Speaker 5: backgrounds on do Do Yes, that's Lucor. Lucor also sang

1436
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:52,840
Speaker 5: on that it's searched in the Rainbow Seekers. There's a

1437
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:57,920
Speaker 5: song on there. Oh man, he put it, he put

1438
01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:03,760
Speaker 5: so Luther comes to me, we gotta deal with Warner Brothers.

1439
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:09,640
Speaker 5: There was a singer named Marxi Dan. How do you

1440
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 5: know that that's that's to do that with to Watha right,

1441
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 5: but it's on that album. Yeah, yeah, but mark the day.

1442
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:23,080
Speaker 5: So Luther wants like, yo, man, what I want you

1443
01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:27,519
Speaker 5: to I was like, no, because I'm doing this. But

1444
01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:32,439
Speaker 5: you know, you don't you never think because if I

1445
01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:34,720
Speaker 5: had done him, that doesn't mean it would have been

1446
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:37,120
Speaker 5: the same result it was. It happened like it's supposed

1447
01:27:37,120 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 5: to happen. Yeah, but Luther, thank you keV.

1448
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:45,080
Speaker 4: I mean what period like when he first got signed

1449
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 4: first album. Damn, so it could have been you instead

1450
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:50,000
Speaker 4: of Marcus Miller Hawkins Villa.

1451
01:27:50,720 --> 01:27:54,000
Speaker 5: He's the first album is singing on She sang on

1452
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 5: every Lucier song. I mean every album.

1453
01:27:56,520 --> 01:27:57,320
Speaker 4: Yes she is.

1454
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:00,120
Speaker 6: She's out with Dave Matthews now right, she.

1455
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:00,519
Speaker 4: Used to be.

1456
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:02,960
Speaker 5: No, man, let's not even go there. Man, Look no,

1457
01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:07,120
Speaker 5: I mean in jest. She has been with everybody.

1458
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:10,880
Speaker 4: Dude, she's been. I've played with her three times and she.

1459
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:13,479
Speaker 5: Told me to mention it didn't y'all stopped calling.

1460
01:28:14,840 --> 01:28:17,040
Speaker 4: I didn't realize until Lenny brought her back.

1461
01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 5: She told me what she's like.

1462
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:19,640
Speaker 4: You just noticed me.

1463
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:22,360
Speaker 5: Now I've been here. She told me. When you first met,

1464
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:25,920
Speaker 5: when she told you her name, you said yo and

1465
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:28,760
Speaker 5: embrace it and told the cats she was like.

1466
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:31,880
Speaker 2: Was she happy?

1467
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:38,080
Speaker 5: Look? And you talk about her history? Lenny Kravitz, Stilly Dan,

1468
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:44,799
Speaker 5: Dave Matthews, David Bowie, Resa Franklin.

1469
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:46,800
Speaker 4: Where's she originally from?

1470
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:50,559
Speaker 5: That's how we met. She was in the in the

1471
01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:56,240
Speaker 5: group Hot Tea and There Way to Howard. So I

1472
01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:58,280
Speaker 5: was living you know, I was living in North So

1473
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:02,360
Speaker 5: I said his number. So when you finished, give me

1474
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:07,560
Speaker 5: a call. She graduates, comes back and we're starting to

1475
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:09,839
Speaker 5: get a couple of little things happening to me and Reggie,

1476
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:14,519
Speaker 5: and she comes back and we get to Stephanie album.

1477
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:19,000
Speaker 5: So she was vocal contractor on every every record.

1478
01:29:19,479 --> 01:29:20,080
Speaker 6: That's amazing.

1479
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:22,439
Speaker 5: You need it, man's amazing. That's a history you really

1480
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:25,680
Speaker 5: need to know. Well, because background singing is an art

1481
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:26,760
Speaker 5: form that's getting lost to.

1482
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:29,320
Speaker 4: Actually going to see her in four days. So I

1483
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:34,479
Speaker 4: will I shall be stalking. Okay, yeah, I'm so afraid

1484
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:35,479
Speaker 4: the end of this episode.

1485
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:37,840
Speaker 5: That's a great word.

1486
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:39,400
Speaker 4: We got to lose the stories we got.

1487
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:41,639
Speaker 5: That was cav Thank you. I forgot Luke.

1488
01:29:42,120 --> 01:29:49,519
Speaker 4: Okay, all right, I learned everything all the things. Yeah,

1489
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:53,120
Speaker 4: you're from Philly, and I learned that Philly doesn't know

1490
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:53,920
Speaker 4: that you're from Philly.

1491
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:54,800
Speaker 5: That's crazy, man.

1492
01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:56,960
Speaker 4: But we'll be at the Walk of Fame induction whatever

1493
01:29:58,760 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 4: to get you.

1494
01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:01,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, okay, well, well you know, if it happens cool,

1495
01:30:01,800 --> 01:30:04,440
Speaker 5: if you don't, it will definitely have good.

1496
01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:08,200
Speaker 4: I'm good it will happen. We thank you for coming

1497
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:11,200
Speaker 4: and sharing everything. Thank you so much for me having

1498
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:13,840
Speaker 4: Sugar Steve and I'm paid Bill, and I'm Boss Bill,

1499
01:30:14,360 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 4: new Boss Bill. I'm Boss Bill. I don't know anyway,

1500
01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:21,639
Speaker 4: Like it's like in fant Ticcolo and Quest Love and

1501
01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:23,920
Speaker 4: James and Too May. We will see you on the

1502
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:26,200
Speaker 4: next go round of whats Love Supreme?

1503
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:39,599
Speaker 1: West Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

1504
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:41,080
Speaker 1: episode was produced by the.

1505
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:42,400
Speaker 4: Team at Pandora.

1506
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:52,759
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1507
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:56,000
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.