Speaker 1: Media.
Speaker 2: All right, man, listen, this is big.
Speaker 3: Most of the people we've invited onto this show are
Speaker 3: people like I know or are in our network. I
Speaker 3: ain't never except for the Garrison Hayes joint ever cold
Speaker 3: called anybody shout out ian you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: The one of the executive producers that cools on, I
Speaker 3: was like, Yo, we should get the Fire and Fury
Speaker 3: fools And I was like, the Fire and Fury Fools
Speaker 3: d Michael Wolf homie that wrote the book, Like so
Speaker 3: like actual journalist guys.
Speaker 2: So that's this show is.
Speaker 3: I interview the host of the Fire and Fury podcast,
Speaker 3: some brilliant, brilliant dudes.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 3: And I'm really excited about doing this because it's almost
Speaker 3: like politics is like this is like when Easy when
Speaker 3: to the White House, you feel me, Like, you know,
Speaker 3: we had Jerry Crow juice dripping all over the White
Speaker 3: House lawn.
Speaker 2: You feel me.
Speaker 3: Kendrick my second Lpie had real niggas on potus line,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: So like.
Speaker 3: This us putting our big boy pants on and really
Speaker 3: seeing if like I mean, I'm pretty positive, but like
Speaker 3: really testing out some of our theories on just the
Speaker 3: premise of the show that like, man, you grew up
Speaker 3: in the city, you understand politics. So here's my interview
Speaker 3: with Michael Wolfe and James Truman of the Fire and
Speaker 3: Fury podcast. We're gonna be like, y'oll how fire is
Speaker 3: the fire psych But first.
Speaker 2: It's like this bull look is like this bull look
Speaker 2: is like this Okay.
Speaker 3: So in a burst of bravery, just the moral fortitude
Speaker 3: and conviction all that America could muster. After watching Israel
Speaker 3: continue to deny food and services to the people of Palestine,
Speaker 3: America finally grew a backbone and wrote a letter wrote
Speaker 3: a letter to Israel, gave them a good stern talking
Speaker 3: to that if they continue to block AID, then we're
Speaker 3: gonna stop giving them them sweet sweet sweet life enders
Speaker 3: that they so enjoy. I'm telling you, I told you,
Speaker 3: if you keep doing this, we're gonna stop selling you
Speaker 3: those those world enders you like so much. Like those
Speaker 3: world enders, We're gonna stop selling to you. You don't
Speaker 3: let the food go in there to the people you
Speaker 3: actively killing. We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna stop. BB said,
Speaker 3: I wish you would. You ain't gonna do shit?
Speaker 2: Is what pitchment that y'all said, You ain't gonna do shyet.
Speaker 2: So there's that.
Speaker 3: Speaking of Israel, they killed the leader of from us
Speaker 3: on accident. And now this man, his name has become
Speaker 3: a verb sinoir when you like you threw a sinoar
Speaker 3: stick at it. Basically, I'm giving everything I have for
Speaker 3: the cause to do my absolute best. That's what his
Speaker 3: name has become now that they accidentally killed him. And
Speaker 3: when I say accidentally killed him, I mean accidentally. They've
Speaker 3: been looking for this man. He been in the tunnels,
Speaker 3: but being in the tunnels really sucks. So he just
Speaker 3: happened to go up for some mayor for a while
Speaker 3: and some rookies, dudes that have been in the military
Speaker 3: for nine months, just happened to catch a glance of
Speaker 3: a uniform and was like, Hey, is that.
Speaker 2: One of them? Is that a mod sneak over there?
Speaker 2: Hey is that one of the Hey those.
Speaker 3: Guys over there, We'll send the drone in the look.
Speaker 3: I sent the drone in the look and they was like, yes,
Speaker 3: there's some ops in there. So they shot it up,
Speaker 3: just thinking it's just a couple of ops. Turns out
Speaker 3: they killed the leader. Boy, I tell you, After igniting
Speaker 3: a famine, a continuous work after setting an area back
Speaker 3: decades all accident, they killed the man, to which the
Speaker 3: rest of the world is like, okay, so are we
Speaker 3: good now? Can you can we go get back to
Speaker 3: getting the hostages? Like are we good? You done kill
Speaker 3: the leader of hesbe Blood? You done kill the leader
Speaker 3: of Amasu? And of course both a hes Blood and
Speaker 3: Hamas are like cribs don't die, We just multiply.
Speaker 2: But can we okay? Can we?
Speaker 3: Can we cease the firing now? Is like you captured
Speaker 3: the you sank the battleship, you captured the checkmate, Like
Speaker 3: can we what are we still doing?
Speaker 2: Benjamin?
Speaker 1: None?
Speaker 2: Y'all who over there looking like Kobe Bryant, job's not doing?
Speaker 2: Job's not doing? And like what job?
Speaker 3: So the job is exactly what we thought your job was,
Speaker 3: which is wiped them out. That's your job, because you
Speaker 3: I feel like this should be mission accomplished. Gone get
Speaker 3: your hostages, just like this seems like you got a bargainship.
Speaker 2: But now you know, Benjamin want them to promise, promise
Speaker 2: you'll never become mummas again. Like I don't know why.
Speaker 3: You think that's possible anyway. In the home Front, a
Speaker 3: couple of things. Turns out the legalization of marijuana, it
Speaker 3: clearly ain't had nothing to do with marijuana. It had
Speaker 3: to do with Monday. And these new super addictive hybrids
Speaker 3: are like causing psychosis apparently, And in a big old
Speaker 3: dub people like, oh it turns out its addictive. Of course,
Speaker 3: like what substance, because addiction is us, like it's us,
Speaker 3: it's not them. Anyway, it turns out marijuana could be addicted.
Speaker 3: Some people just shouldn't smoke weed. That's a big old
Speaker 3: duh anyway. And lastly, and are just such wonderful, beautiful, amazing, respectful,
Speaker 3: high browed discussions about our next president. As Auntie Kamala
Speaker 3: continues to try to convince everybody she is safe Negro,
Speaker 3: she looking to black men being like, but I got
Speaker 3: y'all's back, I'm your Auntie.
Speaker 2: I love y'all vote for me.
Speaker 3: And while I can hold two things at the same
Speaker 3: time to meet personally, I feel like Donald Trump is
Speaker 3: just a non starter. I can still say that Auntie
Speaker 3: might fumbled his bag if she don't figure out this
Speaker 3: Gaza thing.
Speaker 2: She's like, you just it's it's just a layup.
Speaker 3: And I wonder if she feels the same way Jade
Speaker 3: Evans feels about admitting that Donald Trump is crazy, where
Speaker 3: she's like like, come on, y'all know I can't say this,
Speaker 3: but but we don't know, Like, well, that means that
Speaker 3: I can't trust you. So she's trying to thread a
Speaker 3: needle that it to me just seems like this is
Speaker 3: an unnecessary thread. You could just I'm telling you, like
Speaker 3: the at the very least, you could have let you
Speaker 3: could have let a Palestinian speak at the DNC, because
Speaker 3: they didn't.
Speaker 2: They gave you the whole what has bewitched you anyway?
Speaker 3: Because everybody know you're not gonna not support is Like
Speaker 3: we know you go support Israel, but anyway, on the whole,
Speaker 3: Trumpet it all that man said I'm gonna prosecute my enemies,
Speaker 3: and turns out he absolutely meant it. My man, My
Speaker 3: man said, he putting Liz Cheney on trial, He putting
Speaker 3: the Biden family, y'all try, He putting Kamalade Harris on trial.
Speaker 3: He putting the New York Times on trial. He like, oh,
Speaker 3: y'all need to go to diddy. Anybody don't with me,
Speaker 3: y'all going to jail? Like the demand y'all act like
Speaker 3: it's hyperbole, and I just need you to think back
Speaker 3: to the amount of times that this man told you
Speaker 3: exactly what he planned to do, and y'all said it
Speaker 3: was hyperbole. I mean, I like in some senses, I mean,
Speaker 3: game recognized Gabe the man, the man.
Speaker 2: The man said what he said, and.
Speaker 3: He doing it at Our media continues to not learn
Speaker 3: its lesson because it keeps saying in Trump's going more
Speaker 3: and more off the rails, talking about he gonna bring
Speaker 3: in the military and use the military.
Speaker 2: Against the America, against the enemies within.
Speaker 3: I know he said that, and he said it because
Speaker 3: he meant it, like I just are y'all.
Speaker 2: Y'are not paying attention, are you?
Speaker 3: Anyway? We got a few more days. I'm so excited
Speaker 3: about our elections like this.
Speaker 2: All right, all right, all right, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 3: We got two giants, two very brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant
Speaker 3: men on our show. Here. We got Michael Wolf and
Speaker 3: James Truman. What's up, fellas a man, I'm wonderful, man.
Speaker 3: I really appreciate y'all doing this. I'm just gonna jump
Speaker 3: into it because y'all's time is very valuable.
Speaker 2: You guys like our actual jump away jump away you.
Speaker 3: Know, so, first of all, again, thank you. We've already
Speaker 3: done intros. My people know who you are. But generally,
Speaker 3: like the premise of this show is like growing up
Speaker 3: in urban areas, you know, and you know what I
Speaker 3: mean when I say urban areas.
Speaker 2: Let's be be very transparent what urban means.
Speaker 3: But the premise of the show is that navigating the
Speaker 3: different sort of auspices and spaces that you had to
Speaker 3: growing up in just America, urban areas, specifically in the nineties,
Speaker 3: I have found that we're much more equipped to understand
Speaker 3: politics than we're given credit for. You know that there's
Speaker 3: there's there's a lot of like transferable skills and tools
Speaker 3: and just discerning whether it's political strategy, activating a base,
Speaker 3: avoiding sort of like political landmines and stuff like that
Speaker 3: you understand more than you do by just having to
Speaker 3: navigate inner city living. And I'm excited about this because
Speaker 3: I feel like oftentimes, I know, I've listened to y'all's pod,
Speaker 3: I read Fire and Theory and just kind of like
Speaker 3: as a in some ways, like a proof text to
Speaker 3: be like, okay, was I am? I tripping like is
Speaker 3: this what I think it is? You know, and then
Speaker 3: hearing you guys talk and go oh no, yeah, no
Speaker 3: this No, that's that's what we thought. So so this
Speaker 3: is really exciting for me for somebody who like actually
Speaker 3: was there, you know, because you know, at the end
Speaker 3: of the day, we weren't there.
Speaker 2: Y'all were there.
Speaker 3: So I say all that to say this, like jumping
Speaker 3: in specifically about about Donald Trump himself, I feel like
Speaker 3: and a lot of the people that came up with
Speaker 3: me and and for better or for worse, are like,
Speaker 3: we all know this guy. We've I met this guy,
Speaker 3: We've you know, whatever archetype of this guy is, We've
Speaker 3: been seeing him our whole life, you know. And as
Speaker 3: a father, I personally feel like, okay, you have all
Speaker 3: the attributes I teach my children not to have, you know, right, Like,
Speaker 3: this is the complete opposite of what I want my
Speaker 3: kids to be. But my first question is is it
Speaker 3: as bad as we think it is?
Speaker 1: Well, I would probably say yes and no, okay, yes,
Speaker 1: because it's it's it's it's Donald Trump, and he is like, no, Actually,
Speaker 1: it's curious to hear you say you know who this
Speaker 1: person is because I actually don't know who this person is.
Speaker 1: I have never ever in in my relatively wide experience,
Speaker 1: come upon someone certainly as as success esful as he
Speaker 1: is and as absolutely off the rails as as he is.
Speaker 1: So that's completely confounding.
Speaker 2: But sure.
Speaker 1: But the the the the other. The other point about
Speaker 1: whether how bad it is is it's a new kind
Speaker 1: of situation in which Donald Trump makes a lot of
Speaker 1: promises and he makes a lot of threats, and it's a,
Speaker 1: to say the least, a scary world that he outlines.
Speaker 1: At the same time, he's not very interested in any
Speaker 1: of this. He's not very interested in accomplishing anything. What
Speaker 1: he's interested in is is himself and being famous and
Speaker 1: getting attention. He's certainly not interested in policies and legislation
Speaker 1: and and any of the kinds of things that we
Speaker 1: would say, well, well, that's that's what government does, and
Speaker 1: that's why it's that's why it's good, or that's why
Speaker 1: it's bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's that's beautiful.
Speaker 3: And I appreciate you making that distinction, because you're right, like,
Speaker 3: there's I don't know if anybody who's able to just
Speaker 3: make physics not work, like just the rules of the
Speaker 3: rules of the universe just don't apply to him. But
Speaker 3: just in the sense and like you said, like someone
Speaker 3: who's like I can listen to you talk and just
Speaker 3: be like, you sound like the most incompetent person I've
Speaker 3: ever met.
Speaker 2: But why does this work? You know?
Speaker 3: But I think what it is familiar is just this bully,
Speaker 3: this just completely detached, the complete detachment from what you're
Speaker 3: actually saying, but just really just liking power and is like,
Speaker 3: and I will do whatever it takes to maintain that.
Speaker 3: And I don't owe any of you guys anything. I
Speaker 3: don't have any long term friends because I've burnt them,
Speaker 3: you know, and like and those are things that again,
Speaker 3: like you know, for me, like, that's a red flag
Speaker 3: if I meet it. If I meet a person who
Speaker 3: you know, any you know what I mean friends all
Speaker 3: your friends are new, then I'm like, how that's there's
Speaker 3: something wrong if you don't have any long term friendships,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm like, and I'm looking at you, and
Speaker 3: I'm going, well, yours are all in jail.
Speaker 1: So what's what's your view on why this this works?
Speaker 3: I mean, there's I have I have, that's a good question,
Speaker 3: I have.
Speaker 2: I have two thoughts on it.
Speaker 3: One of it, I feel like is just good old
Speaker 3: fashioned racism, just the fact that like America has just
Speaker 3: never dealt with its original sin, and and a desire
Speaker 3: to see.
Speaker 2: Things go back to a way where.
Speaker 3: Ultimately a stratification of our society that places a particular
Speaker 3: people group on top and everyone's subordinate to that.
Speaker 2: And I think he speaks to that. At the end
Speaker 2: of the day, there is that.
Speaker 3: On the other hand, I do think there's a part
Speaker 3: that's what I meant by for better or for worse.
Speaker 3: I do think there's a part that's familiar to who
Speaker 3: I would say, anyone who's come from a type of
Speaker 3: struggle to.
Speaker 2: Have sort of a like.
Speaker 3: Without using like a profanity, but just like an f
Speaker 3: the world attitude, like you know, I'm gonna get mine,
Speaker 3: you know, and if it means taking it from you,
Speaker 3: it don't matter. I'm going to get mine and you
Speaker 3: can either come with me or not. And I and
Speaker 3: and just the guy that walks in the room, that's
Speaker 3: that's scarface godfather that like, you know, And there's a
Speaker 3: type of bravado that I think resonates to inside of
Speaker 3: a person who has never felt like they've had the
Speaker 3: courage to become that, or just the moral fortitude to
Speaker 3: understand that, like I have too much morality, you know,
Speaker 3: to actually step into a world that would allow myself
Speaker 3: to say the quiet things out loud. So in my mind,
Speaker 3: I feel like it's those two things, like you get
Speaker 3: to be you get to live out of bullief fantasy,
Speaker 3: a gangster fantasy that the rest of us know better,
Speaker 3: you know, And and to me, I would step to
Speaker 3: the other side of that and say, that's what I
Speaker 3: mean by like, well, I know that guy, he's he's
Speaker 3: doing ten to twenty five, you know, like you know,
Speaker 3: so like he's doing ten to twenty five and his
Speaker 3: best friend is on his second child, that with your wife,
Speaker 3: you know, while you're in jail, you know.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, I know this guy, you know, and
Speaker 3: none of your friends trust you, nobody likes you. You really,
Speaker 3: you really don't have power. Everybody just can't wait for
Speaker 3: you to leave and take your spot. So I'm like,
Speaker 3: I know your future. That's what I mean by I'm
Speaker 3: familiar with you. But to your point to take that
Speaker 3: and become a president is absolutely mind boggling to me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, do you think you just explained to us
Speaker 4: the thing that no one seems to understand right now,
Speaker 4: which is why Kamala is losing black and Hispanic males
Speaker 4: to Trump.
Speaker 3: I think, man, that's man, I like how this is
Speaker 3: switching the game here.
Speaker 2: I think I think that there's a part of that.
Speaker 3: I think that, like, the thing that I'm explaining is
Speaker 3: not specifically a Black and Hispanic thing. I think it
Speaker 3: has more to do with the It's more socioeconomic than
Speaker 3: than ethnic. You know what I'm saying, because because I
Speaker 3: think Black and Hispanic people traditionally are very much more
Speaker 3: center right than anything because of our faith and our
Speaker 3: church backgrounds. But we're also very very transactional when it
Speaker 3: comes to politics. It's like, look, man, who's who's gonna
Speaker 3: give me what I need?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: And And at the end of the day, there's also within,
Speaker 3: like to be truthful, within the Black and Hispanic community,
Speaker 3: a lot of misogyny. There's a lot of patriarchy that
Speaker 3: still sits into our world and is really hard to
Speaker 3: reckon with, you know what I mean, and really, and
Speaker 3: I think shows up in ways that like, you know,
Speaker 3: we're okay with like you know, Grandma being.
Speaker 2: The matriarch of our family.
Speaker 3: But at the same time Grandma looking at you and
Speaker 3: saying you need to be a man at a house,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: And and I.
Speaker 3: Think that those those two things, like I think kind
Speaker 3: of a kind of play a role, you know. But
Speaker 3: I think it's it's much less like she doesn't have
Speaker 3: the bravado, and it's more like, what are you going
Speaker 3: to do for us?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: And even if like you said, like Trump will make
Speaker 3: a promise, and it's like, if you sit back for
Speaker 3: a second, you could say, well, the same argument he's
Speaker 3: using for her, which is, well you had a chance,
Speaker 3: you know, And like, right right, I do have a
Speaker 3: question for y'all though, around the same thing around like
Speaker 3: this this vice president debate, which now is it feels
Speaker 3: like it might as well been during the Great Depression,
Speaker 3: you know, as long you know, But just this, I
Speaker 3: listened to y'all's pod about it and decided I didn't
Speaker 3: need to make one about it because I was like,
Speaker 3: you guys kind of already said it, you know, But
Speaker 3: just this like my dad can beat up your dad
Speaker 3: type debate, which doesn't like doesn't really do anything. It
Speaker 3: doesn't mean your dad could beat me up. It just
Speaker 3: or beat up your dad. It just means you made
Speaker 3: a beg and a better argument, you know. And and
Speaker 3: I think that, like I kind of feel like, I mean,
Speaker 3: what does the vice president do anyway? He just kind
Speaker 3: of caught him out at you know, Christmases and holidays
Speaker 3: to you know, kind of show.
Speaker 2: Show your face. So so I'm curious about this.
Speaker 3: What do you think the traction of this this these
Speaker 3: attack lines around Kamala having the power to make change
Speaker 3: now and not in acting the change that that she
Speaker 3: says she can make. While at the same time I'm
Speaker 3: watching this going, well, she's the vice president, Like that's she.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Like it's how you gonna
Speaker 2: blame her, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Uh So, so I just wonder if, like if her
Speaker 3: record as as the vice matters, you know.
Speaker 1: More than you know, I mean, cious curiously, this is
Speaker 1: this vice presidential debate is one of the rare times
Speaker 1: when it actually redounded to the benefit of the top
Speaker 1: of the ticket. So, you know, I mean, again, not
Speaker 1: good news for for Harris and the Democrats. And I'm
Speaker 1: not exactly sure why. I mean, Dvance was better than Walls,
Speaker 1: but you know, not not that much better. This was
Speaker 1: certainly not a not a Trump Biden situation. So why
Speaker 1: this should be, why this should matter more than most
Speaker 1: vice presidential debates, I'm not certain, you know, I might
Speaker 1: conjecture that both on the part of Harris and the
Speaker 1: part of Walls, there are questions that voters feel they
Speaker 1: are not answering, that they are avoiding, that they are
Speaker 1: trying not to show themselves. When she declared yesterday the
Speaker 1: day before that, you know, when challenged on her scriptedness,
Speaker 1: and she said, that's what that's called is discipline. You know,
Speaker 1: I think that that is the problem. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think she thinks it's discipline, and I think and I
Speaker 1: think many voters feel that it's it's a lack of transparency,
Speaker 1: it's it's her hiding, it's it's fakery.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: That almost feels like a sort of a byproduct of
Speaker 3: the lurching that Trump did, you know what I mean
Speaker 3: to be like, like, I think to your point, there
Speaker 3: was a time that we thought discipline was good.
Speaker 1: You know, No, no, no, I think I think.
Speaker 2: You should say everything that pops in your head, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, yeahs, you know, but I think it's part
Speaker 1: of the whole ways that Trump has upended everything about
Speaker 1: politics and about political disc discourse, about political performance, about
Speaker 1: the nature of campaigning itself. I mean, this is now performance,
Speaker 1: and the performance is can I hold your attention? And
Speaker 1: can I hold your attention with doing whatever? It really
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what I do, just as long as I'm
Speaker 1: holding your attention, which he does.
Speaker 3: To your point about being able to like answer a
Speaker 3: question better, like, I found that very interesting about Jade
Speaker 3: Vance in the sense of, you know, to use the
Speaker 3: to use the example of like my dad can beat
Speaker 3: up your dad. Well, you said it better, But that
Speaker 3: doesn't actually mean that your dad could beat up my dad.
Speaker 3: It just means you were better at making the argument. No.
Speaker 1: Well, and that's why we've we've we've entered this whole
Speaker 1: thing that that actually the issue of competence is not
Speaker 1: an issue. What it is is the issue of communication
Speaker 1: and connection and emotional appeal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which which really leads me to this, to this
Speaker 3: this the j six you know Fumble even in his
Speaker 3: interview with Lulu Garcia uh Navarro on ah on the
Speaker 3: New York Times, in my opinion, it's a gotcha question.
Speaker 3: There's no way he can answer this question truly. Of
Speaker 3: did Trump lose the twenty two the election. You know,
Speaker 3: it's in the sense that, I mean, come on, guys
Speaker 3: like you, like you, he can't answer.
Speaker 1: This question, you know, no, but it's very it's very
Speaker 1: clear what's going going on there. It's a kind of
Speaker 1: triage at this at this point, he can't he can't
Speaker 1: say that because then he would fall out with Trump.
Speaker 1: So therefore, therefore that's a non starter. He cannot he
Speaker 1: cannot tell the truth. Yeah, therefore he he you know,
Speaker 1: he has no alternative but to but to try to
Speaker 1: fudge the question. Yeah, And I mean, he he's he's certain,
Speaker 1: he certainly knows that I'm gonna look foolish, but better
Speaker 1: I look foolish then I then I fall out with
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Man.
Speaker 3: I I saw that, and I flashed back to being
Speaker 3: thirteen year old, and you know, I just saw I
Speaker 3: just saw this bully steal my friend's bike. And then
Speaker 3: and then somebody walks up and goes, hey, whose bike
Speaker 3: is that?
Speaker 2: And I'm looking at both of them, knowing.
Speaker 3: Full well that you just I'm just that le's while
Speaker 3: I'm like, you can't be honest, like we both know
Speaker 3: you just stole this bike.
Speaker 1: Exactly. There there is no there is no possibility. And
Speaker 1: I think everybody, I mean, that's the other thing about
Speaker 1: the about the world of Donald Trump. Everybody understands something
Speaker 1: that is every It's transparent, every everybody understands this so
Speaker 1: so so vance isn't penalized for not not dealing with,
Speaker 1: not confronting this, not telling the truth about this because
Speaker 1: everybody knows he knows the truth. He just can't say
Speaker 1: the truth.
Speaker 2: He just can't. That is fascinating to me.
Speaker 3: That's what I mean by like just gravity doesn't work anymore,
Speaker 3: you know, because like we all are we just like
Speaker 3: we all know that this is what's happening, Which leads
Speaker 3: me to my next question, which to me is is
Speaker 3: I land here as like one of To me, the
Speaker 3: biggest question is like, so, why in the world would anyone.
Speaker 2: Want to work there?
Speaker 3: And I'm curious as to like I think you guys
Speaker 3: mentioned once that like people will still like line up
Speaker 3: to work in his cabinet, you know, but like you
Speaker 3: just have to turn your body into a pretzel to
Speaker 3: be able to do it, you know. And I'm just
Speaker 3: I just again again going back to how we were raised.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh yeah, no, stay away from him, like,
Speaker 3: you can't this this is a lose lose situation, you know.
Speaker 3: So I just wonder, like, what do you think would
Speaker 3: be the motivation for a person to be willing to
Speaker 3: Like do you do they just think they're different, like
Speaker 3: that there's somehow immute immune or like are you going
Speaker 3: to be the adults in the room? Like why would
Speaker 3: anyone still willingly step into this environment?
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know, I mean all of that is is true,
Speaker 1: and and the exceptions that you outlined are true because
Speaker 1: everybody does think they are different, because everybody does think
Speaker 1: that they can they can do what no one before
Speaker 1: them has managed to do. But then there's also just
Speaker 1: the just the the risk reward thing. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: going to go in I'm going to get a job
Speaker 1: in the in the in the in the White House. Yes,
Speaker 1: I might be indicted, Yes you know I'm going to
Speaker 1: be humiliated. Yes, no one is. You know, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to be listened to. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, there is also a very good chance that
Speaker 1: I will come out ahead of where I am now. Now, yeah, now,
Speaker 1: the problem with that is that there's also a very
Speaker 1: good chance that you will be you will come out
Speaker 1: significantly lesser than where you are now. But for some reason,
Speaker 1: the human mind doesn't necessarily process things that way. I'll
Speaker 1: take a chance. It's the old I'll take a chance.
Speaker 1: And it is the White House.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder if there's like a piece of some
Speaker 3: of it's just the adrenaline, you know.
Speaker 1: And then that is true, it is it is the
Speaker 1: White House. It is like, yeah, this is gonna be exciting.
Speaker 1: I'll go along. I'll go along for the ride.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And to your point, is also true that if you
Speaker 4: befriend a bully in the belief that you're not gonna
Speaker 4: get bulleted by the bully, but in fact, you always
Speaker 4: end up getting bulleted by the bully because that's what
Speaker 4: the bully does.
Speaker 2: That's what he does. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's a good point too. Yeah, that you're
Speaker 3: just like man maybe like, yeah, at least I'd rather
Speaker 3: be the hunter instead of the hunter. You know, I
Speaker 3: can totally understand that.
Speaker 1: And remember, remember the thing is and and and this
Speaker 1: is all part of the of the of the Trump thing.
Speaker 1: You know, it is always better to be more famous
Speaker 1: than you are. Yeah, and yes, and you know, and
Speaker 1: you go into the White House, and even if you're
Speaker 1: spit out by it. You're more famous on the other
Speaker 1: side than you are on going in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, very true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sure that's good.
Speaker 4: Short jail term is the price you pay for that?
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, you know what.
Speaker 3: It's a cost of business, business, the cost of business, right,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: Steve, Steve Steve Bannon gets out of jail. I believe.
Speaker 1: I believe next maybe maybe in two weeks. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure if you gave him the if you gave him
Speaker 1: the choice. No, Donald Trump, none of this, none of this.
Speaker 1: You can go back to twenty and sixteen and not
Speaker 1: do it and not go to jail. He would say, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'll go to jail.
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.
Speaker 1: I mean, all of the humiliations that Trump has met
Speaker 1: it out to him, it doesn't make any difference. He'll
Speaker 1: he'll take.
Speaker 3: It's merely a line item on your on your P
Speaker 3: and L.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, I think my last few questions or two questions
Speaker 3: really are like more zooming out, kind of like a
Speaker 3: meta questions, one about your the field that you're in,
Speaker 3: and then also about just presidencies as a whole. Like
Speaker 3: I part of me feels like there has to be
Speaker 3: some sort of hubris or I don't know, lack of
Speaker 3: a better term, just malady to think that or even
Speaker 3: to desire to be a president. You know, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: look at thirty three hundred million people and go, I
Speaker 3: could be in charge, Like I could, I could do this.
Speaker 2: You know. I.
Speaker 3: And I wonder if in y'all's experience, if it's I'm
Speaker 3: not not not looking for no like kind of race
Speaker 3: science or like you know, gene in there that says.
Speaker 2: I can be the guy or I can be the gal.
Speaker 3: But have you noticed is they're a personality thing inside
Speaker 3: a world leader? Like have you noticed that they have
Speaker 3: a thing that like because I feel like that thing
Speaker 3: is like something wrong with you like that, like you know,
Speaker 3: like no part of me would feel equipped for this job,
Speaker 3: you know, or even want it, you know.
Speaker 2: So I just wonder, like, do you see a.
Speaker 3: Through line between people who would desire this type of position?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think you can fairly say anybody
Speaker 1: who wants this job, there's something wrong with them, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean I think that they have emotional problems. I
Speaker 1: don't think that that's a that's far off the mark.
Speaker 1: But the other thing is not only the assumption of
Speaker 1: this kind of of this kind of power and that
Speaker 1: kind of hubris. It's people who are willing to do
Speaker 1: what you have to do to become the president.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it's years of utter unpleasantness, certainly, and I
Speaker 1: think basically degradation, you know. I mean it's just not
Speaker 1: in not a human enterprise, and so to do that.
Speaker 1: I mean, by the time, if if you weren't already
Speaker 1: warped as a person who wanted that job, you are
Speaker 1: certainly going to be warped by the time you you
Speaker 1: you get it. I mean, it's it's ludicrous. You have
Speaker 1: to run for this for I mean, this is this
Speaker 1: is more than a two year enterprise. You know, you
Speaker 1: have to beg people for money. You have to eat
Speaker 1: the shittiest food.
Speaker 2: Known to man at room temperature.
Speaker 1: You know. I mean even even even Donald Trump is
Speaker 1: full of rage wrath at when you know, when when
Speaker 1: he has to has to sleep in these hotels that
Speaker 1: that they put you in. You know, what a what
Speaker 1: a crummy life?
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, you gotta really want it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Wow, it seems as though this uh election it being
Speaker 3: I mean, if you believe the polls as close as
Speaker 3: it is, it feels like it's it's either of theirs
Speaker 3: to lose, you know, not, rather than it's there to win.
Speaker 3: It feels like, you know, your two, your two missteps
Speaker 3: away from from losing this. What would you say for
Speaker 3: either of them would be the thing that would push
Speaker 3: them off the ledge to to losing this?
Speaker 1: This thing for Kamon Law, I mean's Donald It's it's
Speaker 1: a it's a good question. I'm not sure, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it is his to lose and hers to win. Okay,
Speaker 1: and and and I think that he can lose by
Speaker 1: being Donald Trump. Now, now that's confusing because that's also
Speaker 1: would be the reason that he will win. I think
Speaker 1: she has to do in some sense, it's going to
Speaker 1: be harder for her to win if she stays as
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris. She has to break she has to break
Speaker 1: character at this at this point. And you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't I'm not sure that she can do that.
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, she may then just just
Speaker 1: just have to count on him being him and you know,
Speaker 1: shooting himself in both feet, which he is perfectly capable
Speaker 1: of doing, absolutely a matter of fact, kind of likely
Speaker 1: that he will do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, there's a certain which I would love to
Speaker 3: like fill in those holes too. You know, there's a
Speaker 3: certain sort of double consciousness that like ev D Voice
Speaker 3: and James Baldwin talks about, like that, eyes feel in
Speaker 3: some ways a little more empathy towards Kamala in the
Speaker 3: sense that like, at the end of the day, you're
Speaker 3: still just You're still a black woman, and you're a
Speaker 3: black woman in power, and they're just in our country.
Speaker 3: There is a level of guarding that one has to have,
Speaker 3: has to know to coach, which has to know how
Speaker 3: to do this. And granted I've never gone through the
Speaker 3: degregation it takes to run for office, but I think
Speaker 3: in my own way, and I think any person of
Speaker 3: color in their own way knows.
Speaker 2: That like.
Speaker 3: Idea that like I can't show you too much of me,
Speaker 3: you know, just because of just the history of racism.
Speaker 3: Now that's not an excuse for her, because like I said,
Speaker 3: she running for president, Like you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: Like I'm not running for president, you know what I mean, So,
Speaker 3: like I can stay that guarded. But I think in
Speaker 3: her ability to ascend the hill in the way that
Speaker 3: she has without her having to say that, I feel
Speaker 3: like that that's something that like I can see that.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, yeah, Na, you can't. You can't really
Speaker 3: talk the way you talk, you know, you can't really
Speaker 3: say what you really thinking, you know, And I don't
Speaker 3: know if that's like I can only again speak for
Speaker 3: the black American experience. I can't say that this is
Speaker 3: not true for anyone else. I'm just saying this is
Speaker 3: true for us.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, no, And she may have you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: she has clearly made this very fine calculation and at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, maybe she's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, cool man, Thank you so much
Speaker 3: for your time. My last question has to do about
Speaker 3: just the concept of investigative journalism and sort of the
Speaker 3: work that you dudes do, which I almost heard the
Speaker 3: sigh through through through the mic right now about this
Speaker 3: of just like obviously you know it had don't exactly
Speaker 3: dovetail well in this age of like instant news and
Speaker 3: even me as somebody who like you know, I'm smack
Speaker 3: dab in the millennial world where I even find it
Speaker 3: difficult to find clips of my own pod because I'm like, well,
Speaker 3: I'm building a case here, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: Like I'm that swing generation with the analog sort of
Speaker 3: childhood and then you know, a digital like teen years.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, So, like, I still want to, like,
Speaker 3: I need you to build a case. Tell me why
Speaker 3: I still know how to like fact checked and like
Speaker 3: site sources you know what I'm saying, and look at
Speaker 3: like dissenting voices, like so, I even still find it
Speaker 3: very difficult for even me to say in a thirty
Speaker 3: second clip.
Speaker 2: This is the point.
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, I can't because the clip needs context,
Speaker 3: and then the context needs context, and then that context
Speaker 3: needs a historical context. So I just wonder, man, like,
Speaker 3: how you guys dealing with it? Man, how are you
Speaker 3: guys dealing with just an adapting adjusting? Because it's it's
Speaker 3: obviously still necessary. Long form is still absolutely necessary. But
Speaker 3: what do you guys think the future of sort of
Speaker 3: investigative journalism is?
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. I'm not I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: even think of myself as a journalist. I'm a writer
Speaker 1: and I'm just trying to trying to portray what I
Speaker 1: see and yeah, uh and and James went off to
Speaker 1: start restaurants and I'm the person who pulled him back
Speaker 1: into this, so uh, and I think maybe, well, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, restaurants and journalism are kind of similar businesses
Speaker 1: like terrible, like it's terrible.
Speaker 2: Awful, just money sucks. Yeah, got it.
Speaker 3: I started a coffee company, so yeah you go. You
Speaker 3: could see the box of the case tray, the six
Speaker 3: pack sitting right by me, just like with no coffee
Speaker 3: in him.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyway, good, hey, listen, thanks, this was this was great.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having.
Speaker 2: Us, man.
Speaker 3: I really appreciate y'all taking y'all time for this man
Speaker 3: and again buyer Fury podcast. Uh with these two brilliant
Speaker 3: gentlemen weekly drops. Right yep, yeah, y'all listen to that
Speaker 3: man and thank you again.
Speaker 1: Great, thank you, bye bye.
Speaker 3: All right, now don't you hit stop on this pod.
Speaker 3: You better listen to these credits. I need you to
Speaker 3: finish this thing so I can get the download numbers.
Speaker 2: Okay, so don't stop it yet, but listen.
Speaker 3: This was recorded in East Lost Boyle Heights by your
Speaker 3: boy Propaganda. Tap in with me at prop hip hop
Speaker 3: dot com. If you're in the coldbrew coffee we got
Speaker 3: terraform Coldbrew.
Speaker 2: You can go there dot com.
Speaker 3: And use promo code hood get twenty percent off get
Speaker 3: yourself some coffee. This was mixed, edited, and mastered by
Speaker 3: your boy Matt Alsowski Killing the Beast Softly. Check out
Speaker 3: his website Matdowsowski dot com. I'm a spell it for
Speaker 3: you because I know M A T T O S
Speaker 3: O W s ki dot com Matdowsowski dot com. He
Speaker 3: got more music and stuff like that on it, So
Speaker 3: gonna check out The heat. Politics is a member of
Speaker 3: cool Zone Media, executive produced by Sophie Lichterman, part of
Speaker 3: the iHeartMedia podcast network. Your theme music and scoring is
Speaker 3: also by the one and nobly mattow Sowski. Still killing
Speaker 3: the beat softly, So listen. Don't let nobody lie to you.
Speaker 3: If you understand urban living, you understand politics. These people
Speaker 3: is not smarter than you. We'll see y'all next week.