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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, I'm Kaylie shot and this is too much

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Speaker 1: to say it out you. So this is part four

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Speaker 1: of True Crime Christmas, and I want to say thank

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Speaker 1: you guys so much for letting me kind of go

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Speaker 1: off the normal path of too much to say and

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Speaker 1: try something different. I wanted to share stories that appeal

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Speaker 1: to the part of our brain that true crime appeals too,

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Speaker 1: because whatever it is, it, true crime plays a psychological

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Speaker 1: game with us, and it's very hard to not get

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Speaker 1: sucked into those rabbit holes. I personally don't have it

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Speaker 1: in me anymore to listen to stories about children being

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Speaker 1: cut up by serial killers. And I also am like,

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Speaker 1: what do I what do I get from that? I

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Speaker 1: think that the real purpose of true crime in ways

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Speaker 1: it can benefit people, is to get stories out there

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Speaker 1: and to raise awareness. And unfortunately, at this point, we

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Speaker 1: know that evil people cut up babies, we know that

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Speaker 1: it happens. Um, there's nothing interesting to me about that

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Speaker 1: because it's just pure evil and it doesn't matter why

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Speaker 1: somebody did that, Like, no, it doesn't matter, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: change it. That's why, like when there's a mass shooting,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to know anything about the funk shooter.

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Speaker 1: Because it's like, Okay, probably has mommy issues, he has

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Speaker 1: an absentee father, he's most likely a white man um

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Speaker 1: and I just I'm not it's not interesting. There's nothing

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Speaker 1: new to find there, and there's nothing good that can

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Speaker 1: really come from researching that. The only thing you can

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Speaker 1: really do is like research the wording signs that somebody

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Speaker 1: might behave like that, and like work on the mental

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Speaker 1: health system. But so I haven't been covering any of

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Speaker 1: those stories. You know, We've done um, the Murdoch murders,

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Speaker 1: We've done OxyContin and the big pharma scheme there, we've

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Speaker 1: done satanic panic last week. But this week we're and

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Speaker 1: be talking about Indigenous people in Canada who have had

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Speaker 1: these horrible run ins with the police called starlight tours.

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Speaker 1: And it happened specifically in Saskatchewan. But there's really no

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Speaker 1: there's no real number or estimate of how many times

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Speaker 1: this could have happened, because it's been it's been like this,

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Speaker 1: this myth mythological, mythological, it's in this mythological concept since

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Speaker 1: the seventies and it finally was able to be proven

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Speaker 1: in the nineties and two thousand's. So starlight tours are Basically,

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Speaker 1: these cops would would take people to the middle of

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Speaker 1: nowhere and leave them there and it would be negative

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Speaker 1: twenty degrees fahrenheit and people would die, They'd freeze to death.

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Speaker 1: It's Canada, it's fucking freezing um and they completely singled

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Speaker 1: out Indigenous people to the point where it's hard to

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Speaker 1: find information on this. Because I wanted to share this

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Speaker 1: story because it's it's sort of known in Canada. Nobody

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Speaker 1: in the US knows about this. I'd never heard of

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Speaker 1: this until I was listening to a podcast by the

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Speaker 1: CBC where they like casually mentioned this. And one of

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Speaker 1: the only other podcasts I've heard about Starlight Tours was

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Speaker 1: the Criminal Podcast, which is amazing because they're like the

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Speaker 1: biggest true crime product podcast and they gave this a

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Speaker 1: platform because it's it's something that absolutely needs more awareness

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Speaker 1: and we need to know that this has been happening

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Speaker 1: to Indigenous people in our lifetimes. This is not ship

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Speaker 1: that happened in the forties, is not ship that happened

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Speaker 1: in the undreds. Is a ship that happened while I

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Speaker 1: was alive and could still be happening today. It's absolutely crazy.

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Speaker 1: So startlet tours in America. We obviously have a history

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Speaker 1: of oppression and racism towards all groups, from Japanese and

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Speaker 1: tournament camps to police students of black people too, you know,

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Speaker 1: UM putting Indigenous people on reservations and restricting their access

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Speaker 1: to you know, two jobs and to business and all

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Speaker 1: of that. UM. In Canada, they have been so fucked

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Speaker 1: up to Indigenous people, and from from now on in

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Speaker 1: this episode, I'm gonna refer to them as First Nations

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Speaker 1: because that's the preferred term in this particular region. UM Canada,

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Speaker 1: they're typically called First Nations, are Indigenous. Here we call

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Speaker 1: them Native American or UM indigenous, UM American Indian is

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Speaker 1: I've read is appropriate. It just really depends on what

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Speaker 1: the person wants to be called. So, just for lack

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Speaker 1: of truly knowing, I'm going to use First Nations people.

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Speaker 1: So this is all happening in Saskatchewan. We're gonna be

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Speaker 1: talking about the early nineties, and the story it doesn't

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Speaker 1: start because it's going on for a long time, but

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Speaker 1: the story really starts to pick up um and become

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Speaker 1: go from myth to fact in no so UM teenager

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Speaker 1: who's seventeen named Neil stone Child and its senator named

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Speaker 1: Jason Roy, who's six team. They leave a party in

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Speaker 1: Saskatchewan in negative degree fahrenheit weather. Um. They that's the

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Speaker 1: last thing I remember. They were both really blacked out.

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Speaker 1: The next thing that happens that Roy can recall is uh,

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Speaker 1: later that day or later that night. So middle of

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Speaker 1: the night on early morning on November they're both blacked out,

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Speaker 1: and the only thing Roy remembers is watching Neil stone

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Speaker 1: Child interact with two constables, Constables Singer and Constable Heartwig,

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Speaker 1: which are the Canadian equivalents of you know, officers. They

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Speaker 1: call them constables and h stone Child's in the back

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Speaker 1: of the cruiser at this point and he's bloody and

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Speaker 1: he's screaming they're going to kill me. And then Roy

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Speaker 1: doesn't remember anything else. They've been drinking. They they're both

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Speaker 1: blocked up. So that's November. Twenty four days later, Neil

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Speaker 1: has found frozen to death on the outskirts of town. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's in the middle of nowhere. I mean we're talking

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Speaker 1: like town dump was was was an area that this happened,

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Speaker 1: and I believe that's where they found his body, was

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Speaker 1: like over near the town down. So like imagine the

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Speaker 1: most rural part of a already rather rural area and

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Speaker 1: there's no there's no ubers, there's no cell phones, there's

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Speaker 1: no cell phone, and there's no way for these people

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Speaker 1: to you know, find their way home. And it's so cold,

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Speaker 1: I mean, even if you walked, you could die by

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Speaker 1: mile three, like even though you're moving, like it's still

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Speaker 1: so cold, like you can get frostbite just not having

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Speaker 1: something covering your face, like it's freezing. So he's found

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Speaker 1: frozen to death, and at his funeral a few days later,

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Speaker 1: his family sees that he has cuts on his face

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Speaker 1: at the open casket and they're like, that's so weird

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Speaker 1: because it was just ruled, as you know, just an

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Speaker 1: accidental freezing death, like he just just happened to be

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Speaker 1: out there in the middle of nowhere, um and just

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Speaker 1: died because he got cold. That was the story. And

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Speaker 1: so they had a file with the police report and

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Speaker 1: there uh this is by um Officer Jarvis. I forget

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Speaker 1: his official title because it's all different in Canada, but

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Speaker 1: this was like one of the higher ups at the

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Speaker 1: police station in the Saskatchewan Police um so Officer Jarvis.

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Speaker 1: Just a few days after the funeral concludes, the Stone

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Speaker 1: Child file. Um. The report doesn't address several things like

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Speaker 1: Neil was missing a shoe that's not talked about. Um.

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Speaker 1: They didn't talk about how he walked nine kilometers to

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Speaker 1: an industrial area in a snowstorm, because like how would

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Speaker 1: he have gotten out there? They didn't address that. Um.

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Speaker 1: They didn't talk anything about the cuts on his nose.

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Speaker 1: And Jason Roy his his sixteen year old friend who

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Speaker 1: said that he saw stone child in the back of

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Speaker 1: the cruiser. That was excluded from the report as well,

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Speaker 1: so none of that is in the report. And Ernie Lutie,

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Speaker 1: who's a police officer who's also a First Nation so

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Speaker 1: he has he was the only First Nations um Indigenous

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Speaker 1: person in the Saskatchewan Police Force. So he's like looking

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Speaker 1: at this and he's like, I've kind of heard of

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Speaker 1: these starlight tours. This thing sketchy, like we should look

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Speaker 1: more into this, um, And no one will listen to him.

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Speaker 1: So he goes behind his officers back and his superiors back,

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Speaker 1: and he goes to the administrative office and has one

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Speaker 1: of the secretaries print him a copy of the police report,

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Speaker 1: which is totally like not okay, like against all the rules,

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing it. Um, and he knows he could

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Speaker 1: get in trouble for asking for it, and they kind

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Speaker 1: of like knew that too, but they're like, all right, fine,

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Speaker 1: I just don't don't get us in trouble. Um. So

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Speaker 1: he gets a copy of the police support and he

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Speaker 1: had been asking and continued to ask the police officers

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Speaker 1: like why they weren't investigating that more because it didn't

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Speaker 1: make any sense. And then there was some some weird

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Speaker 1: excuse about how neil Stone child was about to turn

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Speaker 1: himself in to the like prison, but are going to

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Speaker 1: a correctional center. But the thing is he was seventeen,

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Speaker 1: so he wouldn't have gone to that prison. He would

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Speaker 1: have gone to the juvenile detention center and he'd already

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Speaker 1: been there so he knew where it was and it

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Speaker 1: wasn't And also this was like not even in the

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Speaker 1: right direction. It made no sense, and that they were

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Speaker 1: just giving him these weird answers that did not add up,

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Speaker 1: and he was like okay, um. So he's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get this police report, I'm gonna read it myself,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep it at home. I'm breaking a lot

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Speaker 1: of rules to do this, but something's up so he

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Speaker 1: just has report, you know, kind of just reads it.

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Speaker 1: Nothing truly happens from there. Um. Then Terry Craig, who's

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Speaker 1: a writer for the Saskatchewan Star Phoenix newspaper, UM, this

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Speaker 1: is a few months later. He interviewed neilstone Child's family

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Speaker 1: and they were like, we suspect foul play. Um. Basically,

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Speaker 1: these writers kept getting assigned, like, over the course of

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Speaker 1: this story, they'll get assigned something that relates to the

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Speaker 1: freezing death just because it's a sketch and there's not

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Speaker 1: a ton of there's not a ton of news, and

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Speaker 1: they're like, okay, well maybe let's write something about how

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't like wander around alone at night in the cold.

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Speaker 1: And so he does that, and he talks to their

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Speaker 1: family and he's like, there's just something weird going on here.

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Speaker 1: So that's all in. Seven years later, Um, there's a

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Speaker 1: humor column, like a Funnies cartoons sort of thing in

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Speaker 1: the Saskatoons Sun, which is another newspaper, and a police

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Speaker 1: officer named Brian Trainer wrote this fictional story where he

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Speaker 1: talks about two cops who pick up a drunk man

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Speaker 1: and drop him off on the outskirts of the city

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Speaker 1: near the Queen Elizabeth power station. And it's supposed to

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Speaker 1: be this funny story, right, Well, okay, we're gonna take

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Speaker 1: a quick break, but then we're gonna tell you how

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Speaker 1: that absolutely came true. They think it's funny to write

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Speaker 1: a column about, uh, two fictional cops picking up a

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Speaker 1: drunk guy dropping him off on the outskirts of the

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Speaker 1: city near the Queen Elizabeth power station. And then flash

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Speaker 1: forward three years to January two thousand, Lloyd Dusty Horn,

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Speaker 1: fifty year old First Nations man, was found frozen to

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Speaker 1: death in Saskatoon in the exact manner that would just

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Speaker 1: was described in the Humor column three years earlier, like

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Speaker 1: this is something that is seems to be common knowledge,

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Speaker 1: even though nobody will really talk about it, And to

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Speaker 1: this day there's still like a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: don't want to talk about it. But it's people knew

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Speaker 1: enough about it to have for it to have a

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Speaker 1: catchy name like Starlight Tours. And this just proves it.

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Speaker 1: So this all happens really fast. To try to keep up,

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Speaker 1: so January nineteenth, Lloyd Dusty Horn was found frozen to death.

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Speaker 1: Less than ten days later, Darrell Knight, who's uh Cree

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Speaker 1: First Nations man from Saskatoon. He told police that two

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Speaker 1: officers had dropped him off several miles outside of Saskatoon

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Speaker 1: and freezing temperatures. He'd been having a drunk an argument

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Speaker 1: with his uncle, and he said the officers picked him

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Speaker 1: up outside his uncle's apartment before dawn. He was wearing

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Speaker 1: only a T shirt and running shoes, and they left

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Speaker 1: him in a remote rural area outside of the city.

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Speaker 1: He managed to walk several miles to a power station

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Speaker 1: where a watchman let him call a taxi, which would

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Speaker 1: be the Queen Elizabeth power station, the same one in

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Speaker 1: the newspaper humor column. So that's January. The next day, January,

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Speaker 1: the shirtless body of an Aboriginal man, Rodney Nastas is

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Speaker 1: discovered in a field near the Queen Elizabeth power station,

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Speaker 1: the exact place where Darryl Knight says he'd been dropped off.

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Speaker 1: February three. This is all within a two week period, guys.

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Speaker 1: February three, Lawrence Wagner's frozen body was discovered where Nastas

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Speaker 1: was found. He's wearing only socks, a T shirt and jeans.

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Speaker 1: Where the fund did his shoes go? Why? Where did

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Speaker 1: these people, Like I mean, and if you go back

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Speaker 1: to neil Stone, child was missing his shoe and you

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Speaker 1: don't just like lose your shoes in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the winter. And I have stumbled around drunk in the winter.

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Speaker 1: They just you don't just like take them off. The

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Speaker 1: hypothesis is that these police officers were also taking their shoes,

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Speaker 1: So not only were they leaving them stranded in negative

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Speaker 1: twenty degree weather, but they were also taking their shoes

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Speaker 1: and their jackets and beating them up first And just like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, what do you expect somebody to do there?

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Speaker 1: Not die? No, that absolutely has to be your intention.

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Speaker 1: So three weeks after this UM, a Star Phoenix writer

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Speaker 1: was assigned to write a cautioning piece about walking at night,

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Speaker 1: and he it's like there's so many like all in

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Speaker 1: a two week period, Like why are these people going

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Speaker 1: out to the Queen Elizabeth power station? And this makes

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Speaker 1: no sense? Like again, guys, this is a beyond rural area,

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Speaker 1: Like this is like, I mean, picture that part of

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Speaker 1: your talent, like dirt roads, telephone lines? Is it? There's nothing?

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Speaker 1: I mean he had to one of the guys had

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Speaker 1: Darren Night had to walk miles to even get to

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Speaker 1: the Queen Elizabeth power station, which was already so remote,

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Speaker 1: so he was even further past that. So this writer

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Speaker 1: is like, well, fuck, Like this doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 1: So he's going through the Star Fenix archives um from

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Speaker 1: back over the past like ten years. He's like, there's

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Speaker 1: got to be more stuff because it seems to be

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Speaker 1: just way too coincidental that this would happen to four

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Speaker 1: people in a two week period, Like, what's going on? Um?

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Speaker 1: So then he goes back and he finds the Terry

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Speaker 1: Craig interview where he talks to Neil stone Child's family

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Speaker 1: in and they said that they think there was foul play,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, holy sh it, this is the exact

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Speaker 1: same thing, and we need to figure out what's going on.

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Speaker 1: And this is like so sad because in our society

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Speaker 1: it shouldn't take a journalist to get people in trouble,

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Speaker 1: but it does because the law system has failed them

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Speaker 1: so has failed people, just citizens in general so many

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Speaker 1: times that it takes being exposed on a public level

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Speaker 1: for these institutions to act right. And yeah, so Terry

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Speaker 1: Terry Craig's article leads to this, Uh, these now there's

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Speaker 1: more than one Star Phoenix writer involved. There's two of

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Speaker 1: them and they're like digging through all these archives and

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Speaker 1: they end up calling the police station and being like, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's some stuff going on that you guys might need

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Speaker 1: to know about. And they're like, do you have a

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Speaker 1: report on neil Stone Child And they're like, oh, sorry,

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Speaker 1: we actually burned the report. It doesn't exist anymore. We

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Speaker 1: purge our you know, we purge our files every ten

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Speaker 1: years just to get rid of stuff, which is like

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Speaker 1: such bullshit because it's like you can't just I mean

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Speaker 1: this was before like computers were fully keeping track of everything,

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Speaker 1: but like you can't just like throw away a police report.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just insane. So anyways, so Ernie Lutite,

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Speaker 1: the first Nations police officer who stole the report, is

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Speaker 1: like getting wind of this and he's like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, I think I might have this. So

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Speaker 1: he goes into his basement and he finds the report

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Speaker 1: because he photo copied it and he still has it,

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Speaker 1: so there was no other If he had not gone

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Speaker 1: in and like illegally obtained that police report, they may

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Speaker 1: have never been able to do what they did next.

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Speaker 1: So that's all early spring of the year two thousand

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Speaker 1: and by September two police officers admitted to abandoning Darrell

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Speaker 1: Knight and phrasing temperatures near to the the power station. They

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Speaker 1: got fired. And it takes another three years after that

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Speaker 1: for because I mean, the whole reason any of this

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Speaker 1: happened is because the Star Phoenix writers drew a parallel

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Speaker 1: to Neil stone Child and they were like, hey, so

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Speaker 1: this Darrell Knight thing, this happened to Neil stone Child.

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Speaker 1: That's so sketchy, right, And the police are like, yo,

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Speaker 1: we should look at that report. So they fire them.

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Speaker 1: And then the three years later, three fucking years is

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Speaker 1: when a Commission of Inquiry UM started an inquiry into

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Speaker 1: the death of Neal stone Child and it was headed

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Speaker 1: by a Commissioner, Justice David Wright. September eight, two three

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Speaker 1: October two thousand and four, over a year later, because

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Speaker 1: the Justice is a move so fucking slow, he releases

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Speaker 1: a final report of the stone Child inquiry and it

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Speaker 1: says that so Child was absolutely in the customer becausty

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Speaker 1: of sanger and heartwig on the night he died, and

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Speaker 1: the injuries on his nose were most likely from handcuffs

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Speaker 1: and saner and Heartwig, were suspended with pay. About a

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Speaker 1: month later they are fired. So they got paid for

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Speaker 1: a month. They got a fucking month's vacation before they

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Speaker 1: get fired, even though they literally killed somebody. They literally

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Speaker 1: killed them, and I mean, it's just absolutely bizarre. But

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Speaker 1: so they get fired in two thousand four. Then they appeal.

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Speaker 1: The appeal is denied by the court. They're like, no,

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Speaker 1: you can't get your jobs back. You fucked up, you

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Speaker 1: killed somebody. Yeah, but despite this, despite a court upholding,

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Speaker 1: they're rolling and them getting fired, and those other two

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Speaker 1: police officers who dropped off um Darrell Knight getting fired.

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Speaker 1: No Saskatoon police officer has been tried for Neil's death

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Speaker 1: or those of any of the other Indigenous people who

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Speaker 1: froze it up. And this goes back as far as

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six. Were supposedly this happened to an Indigenous woman.

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Speaker 1: But I mean there's no records. They throw out their

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Speaker 1: records every ten years. Nobody had cell phones, there's no evidence,

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Speaker 1: and it's just the I mean, we still have a

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Speaker 1: we have a you know, this massive problem of missing

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Speaker 1: Indigenous women in the US and just this mistreatment of

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Speaker 1: them and not accounting for these people who are missing,

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Speaker 1: and clearly that's that's happening up here as well. Um,

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Speaker 1: but just the fact that it took them three years

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Speaker 1: from firing the police officers who abandon Knight to start

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Speaker 1: an inquiry into the death of Neil Stone Child it

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Speaker 1: makes no sense, Like there doesn't seem to be any

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Speaker 1: sort of concept of maybe we should work on this

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Speaker 1: little faster, Like there's no like pressure or anything supposedly,

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Speaker 1: and there's like this happened to four guys in a

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Speaker 1: two week period, Like clearly this is a problem and

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Speaker 1: nobody cared enough to It's just it's so frustrating and

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Speaker 1: so like justice was never truly served. And then the

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Speaker 1: weirdest part is the Saskatoon police that was all like,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're fired, appeals denied by the court. That's

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Speaker 1: two thousand and four in fifteen years later, right ten

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Speaker 1: years later, Oh my god, no whatever, I'm bad a math. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: A long time later, there was a student at a

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Speaker 1: university in Canada who was trying to do a report

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Speaker 1: on the Starlight tours, and like me, he was having

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Speaker 1: trouble finding information because there's just not that much of

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Speaker 1: it online. And he was on the Saskatoon Police um

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Speaker 1: Wikipedia page, and he was like, that's so weird, Like

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Speaker 1: there's nothing about the Starlight Tours on this Wikipedia page.

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Speaker 1: So he calls UM, he calls the Star Phoenix writers

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Speaker 1: and called some people around Saskatoon and it's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: why isn't this here? And they did some digging and

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Speaker 1: it turns out that someone inside the police station had

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Speaker 1: been deleting Starlight Tours from the Saskatoon Police Wikipedia page repeatedly,

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Speaker 1: like they just kept doing it. Anytime I would go

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Speaker 1: back up, they delete it and they could never find

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Speaker 1: who had accessed it because they delete their computer history.

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Speaker 1: Because the room like I'm sorry, but like police stations

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Speaker 1: and and for it should not be allowed to delete

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Speaker 1: ship that seems to be a recurring problem. Let's just

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Speaker 1: tell them you can't delete things anymore. You have had

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Speaker 1: your right to delete things revoked. No, sir, go buy

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Speaker 1: some hard drives. I'm sure the taxpayers will be fine

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Speaker 1: with their money going towards that. Can't be that expensive

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Speaker 1: and just absolutely sane. So they never find who deleted

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Speaker 1: it from the Wikipedia page, but it's up there now,

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Speaker 1: and it was just really embarrassing for the Saskatoon Police

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Speaker 1: who had to do, like the the judge who had

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Speaker 1: them like fire, the officers with them who were in

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Speaker 1: charge of neil Stone Child like they the court had

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Speaker 1: also been like, hey, here's some things that we really

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Speaker 1: recommend you do, like cultural training and UM education on

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Speaker 1: the oppression of Indigenous and like how to approach these

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Speaker 1: situations and what you should shouldn't do, And they did

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Speaker 1: all of that, and then still over ten years later

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Speaker 1: there still like defending in a way what they did

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Speaker 1: by deleting it and not like the only way you

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Speaker 1: stop those things from happening is by educating people and

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Speaker 1: be like, hey, this is what happened. We can't do

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Speaker 1: this again. And they want to delete it. And it

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Speaker 1: was such a bad look for the Saskatoone police and

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Speaker 1: it's just just so embarrassing and really fucking sad, and

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Speaker 1: all of these men did not deserve to die. UM.

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Speaker 1: It's just absolutely heartbreaking. So I've included some links if

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Speaker 1: you guys want to do any more deep digging on this.

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Speaker 1: UM is a really sad story, and I mean there's

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Speaker 1: so much fucked up ship that the Canadian government has

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Speaker 1: done to UM First Nations people. It's absolutely heartbreaking and Honestly,

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Speaker 1: even when I was in Canada like two months ago,

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Speaker 1: I saw this flyer about an Indigenous woman from Edmonton

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Speaker 1: who was missing, and it was talking about how like

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Speaker 1: the police weren't helping them and they didn't care, and

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Speaker 1: like it was just a really, really sad story. And

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Speaker 1: so this is still happening. It's heartbreaking, and I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to share this story with you guys because I

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Speaker 1: had never heard of this, and it's an absolutely wild

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Speaker 1: story and it's so sad for all of their families

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Speaker 1: to know that they died senselessly at the hands of

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Speaker 1: people who are supposed to take care of them, and

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Speaker 1: also that they never truly got justice. People losing their

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Speaker 1: jobs is not justice, especially when lives have been lost.

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Speaker 1: So this has been this week's episode of Too Much

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Speaker 1: to Say. I've attached some links so you can read

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Speaker 1: more about this, and also the criminal episode where you

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Speaker 1: can hear directly from the Star Phoenix writers and from

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Speaker 1: um the First Nations police officer who had the report.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing because he's such a hero in this for

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Speaker 1: breaking the rules and yeah, it's just you need good

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Speaker 1: the eyes like that to hold everybody accountable. So thank you.

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Speaker 1: Guys so much for listening. I'm Gaily Shure and i'll

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Speaker 1: see you next week. Out you