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Speaker 1: It is another good day in the jobless world. Two

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Speaker 1: hundred and eighteen thousand jobless claims reported last month. Remember

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Speaker 1: we had the big job last week. We had the

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Speaker 1: big jump the week before up to two twenty four,

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Speaker 1: and now we've gone backwards a little bit on that.

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Speaker 1: I'm waiting to see the latest revisions to see what

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Speaker 1: last week it was two twenty seven. So last week

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Speaker 1: was revised up and this week we come way down

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Speaker 1: to to eighteen on a continuing basis one million, eight

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy one thousand. That is down from one million,

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Speaker 1: eight hundred ninety four thousand, So it does look like

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Speaker 1: workers are still on the job, companies are still holding

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Speaker 1: onto their employees.

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Speaker 2: Yet it's a little bit higher off the back of

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Speaker 2: this MIC. So we're up three or four basis points

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Speaker 2: on a ten year to four fourteen on a thirty year,

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Speaker 2: up three basis points at least at a four thirty five.

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Speaker 2: You put this together with jobless claims and together with payrolls,

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Speaker 2: together with the ISAM services manufacturing improving, it's pretty decent

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Speaker 2: dates over the last couple of weeks.

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Speaker 3: If you're looking for cracks, you're not finding it. When

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Speaker 3: people say well, just fast forward, look at the real

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Speaker 3: time data. Well, here we have the real time data,

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Speaker 3: and it's confirming the strength that we saw last Friday

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Speaker 3: in the ten year yield, I'm noting really taking a

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Speaker 3: leg higher four point one percent rounded up. To me,

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Speaker 3: that's what I'm watching longer term. What does that suggest

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Speaker 3: about the neutral rate and about long term momentum underneath

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Speaker 3: some of the recovery we've seen.

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Speaker 2: Dunnas maye because we can have that conversation right now,

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Speaker 2: realtime reaction with think Richmond Fed President Tompak and alongside

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Speaker 2: Blimpecks Mike McKay president back in good morning, she say.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me here, and I am having that

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Speaker 4: data didn't surprise.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about this data. Let's talk about how

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Speaker 2: much weight you're putting on it. It's really strong coming

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Speaker 2: out of the gate for twenty twenty four. How much

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Speaker 2: weight are you putting on this stuff at the moment?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think the data has been remarkable, and it's

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Speaker 4: been remarkable across the board. Yeah, the fourth quarter GDP

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Speaker 4: three point three percent, the jobs numbers last month, and

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Speaker 4: I think all of them do talk about an economy

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Speaker 4: that's fundamentally healthy. That's a great thing. I am always

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Speaker 4: cautious about numbers around the turn of the year. I mean,

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Speaker 4: they're big seasonal adjustments. A great example would be the

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Speaker 4: jobs numbers last month. The actual jobs were actually down

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Speaker 4: two and a half million because a lot of the

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Speaker 4: retail folks who were hired for Christmas, you know, then

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Speaker 4: got laid off after. But the seasonal adjustments bring it

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Speaker 4: up to a positive three hundred and fifty three. So

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Speaker 4: that's a pretty big seasonal adjustment. I look hard at it.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad to see it coming in. That's the best

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Speaker 4: data we have, but I'm not sure I'm going to

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Speaker 4: take too much out of any one month.

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Speaker 1: Markets are obviously interested in if and when the FED

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Speaker 1: is going to cut emphasis on the when, and I

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Speaker 1: know you've said we don't have to be in any rush,

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Speaker 1: but with the data like this, basically are you telling

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Speaker 1: people you know, we're doing fine with rates where they are.

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Speaker 4: Well, I have said you don't have to be in

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Speaker 4: any particular hurry. You've got a dual mandate with employment

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Speaker 4: and inflation. In the employment side of the mandate, I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's actually operating at historic levels three point seven percent

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Speaker 4: of employment, job gains. We talked about initial claims, job openings.

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Speaker 4: It's a very strong labor market still, so gratified to

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Speaker 4: see inflation coming down. Hoping it continues to come down.

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Speaker 4: I think we've got some time to be patient.

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Speaker 1: I know you said you don't have a roadmap for

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Speaker 1: rate cuts. Yesterday, Carlisle Group chief executive Harvey Schwartz said

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Speaker 1: investors should not be thinking the Fed would cut rates

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Speaker 1: five times this year because that would imply something's wrong

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Speaker 1: with the economy. I assume you would agree with him.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's hard for me to get into the market

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Speaker 4: forecast because there's always two elements going on in those forecasts.

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Speaker 4: One is rate normalization under a healthy economy and inflation

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Speaker 4: coming down. But the other, of course, the economy takes

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Speaker 4: a wrong turn and you come down faster, and so

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Speaker 4: those things are a weighted average. To me. There is

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Speaker 4: certainly a model that you take rates down quickly. That's

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Speaker 4: not a model that's good for the economy. That's just

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Speaker 4: one of the things that could happen. And then there's

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Speaker 4: the model where you toggle rates down as the economy

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Speaker 4: comes back into balance.

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Speaker 3: Underpinning this is really the mystery of the neutral rate

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Speaker 3: sort of this vague, mysterious concept that people throw around.

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Speaker 3: Mount Zeiover at Deutsch Bang changed his view recently, saying

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Speaker 3: that he thinks the neutral rate, instead of being about

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Speaker 3: three percent in the post pandemic reality, might be around

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Speaker 3: three and a half percent or even four percent. Does

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Speaker 3: that job with your thinking?

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Speaker 4: It's certainly conceivable to me that it's come up from

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Speaker 4: the estimates that we saw before COVID. The challenge with

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Speaker 4: all these neutral rate estimates is the standard deviation's two

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Speaker 4: hundred basis points, and so the center of the SEP

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Speaker 4: I think in the last meeting was about two and

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Speaker 4: a half, So it could be a half, it could

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Speaker 4: be four and a half, and so I think you

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Speaker 4: have to sort of make your decisions not based on

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Speaker 4: trying to hit a theoretical neutral but based on what

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Speaker 4: you see in the economy and what you learn about

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Speaker 4: how the economy reacts to rates. And that's what I'm

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Speaker 4: trying to do.

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Speaker 3: I guess as I'm watching some of the data come

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Speaker 3: in and I hear from all of these investors they're

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Speaker 3: concerned about reaccelerating inflation later in the year, some of

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Speaker 3: these comps change. Are you also starting to worry about

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Speaker 3: that a little bit more.

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Speaker 4: Well, we've already had a lot to worry about in

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Speaker 4: today's conversation, so I won't focus on all of the

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Speaker 4: worries I have got. I saw the shipping conversation.

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Speaker 2: Ear today, at least it's specialized in worried.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. No, there's a lot to worry about. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 4: I think you have to acknowledge how good the inflation

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Speaker 4: data has been for the last seven months. I mean,

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Speaker 4: last seven months core inflation one point nine percent. That's

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Speaker 4: right on target. That's terrific, right, And I'm not rooting

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Speaker 4: against inflation, but I'm always you know, trust but verify,

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Speaker 4: you know, let's make sure that's really right. And so

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Speaker 4: we'll get a few more months. It would be I

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Speaker 4: would very much like to see that trend continue and

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Speaker 4: you know, broaden, because it's been disproportionately goods deflation that's

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Speaker 4: been masking higher than normal prices and rents and shelter.

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Speaker 4: So I'd love to see it broaden and maybe well,

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Speaker 4: you know, the trend is good and you can't argue

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Speaker 4: with that that trend. Let's just see how we go.

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Speaker 1: How do you parse inflation these days? Those because yes,

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Speaker 1: the PCE is down below three percent. But when you

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Speaker 1: look at things like the Cleveland and Dallas trim means,

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Speaker 1: the Atlanta Fed Sticky wage index, it all shows basically

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Speaker 1: more inflation than your targeted index.

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Speaker 4: Well, these numbers will converge over time, right, and so

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Speaker 4: what's happening right now in inflation, as I said, is

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Speaker 4: you've got a lot of clawback of goods price increases

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Speaker 4: that happened during COVID, and so goods deflation, which has

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Speaker 4: always been a factor, is even more significant than it

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Speaker 4: has been over the last twenty years. Rents and services

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Speaker 4: are higher. These trim mean measures look at the center

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Speaker 4: of the distribution, and so they're looking at that center

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Speaker 4: part which is higher as opposed to the weighted average,

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Speaker 4: which is lower. If it broadens, everything will come down.

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Speaker 4: If it doesn't, it won't, and we'll just see what happens.

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Speaker 1: Well, how do you make a judgment then on when

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Speaker 1: you think it'll be appropriate to cut? What are you

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Speaker 1: looking for? The phrase I think that Chairman and others

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Speaker 1: have used as measurable progress towards the two percent target?

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Speaker 1: How would you define that?

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Speaker 4: If I could get these kind of numbers sustained and

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Speaker 4: even better broadened, that's what I'm looking for, sustained and broadening.

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Speaker 2: It was a worry in the news conference, and you

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Speaker 2: could sense that with jam and Pal that he wasn't

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Speaker 2: comfortable yet. And I wonder if you will not to

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Speaker 2: belie there just with this idea that maybe the improvement

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Speaker 2: we've seen over the last six months is down to

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Speaker 2: so called one off factors. Do you share that concern

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Speaker 2: as well?

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Speaker 4: Well? Another way to put it is that core inflat,

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Speaker 4: I mean, headline inflation for last year was whatever two

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Speaker 4: point six percent. There was a three point three percent

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Speaker 4: six month period and a one point nine percent six

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Speaker 4: month period, So which do you believe the three point

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Speaker 4: three or the one point nine So we're rounding now

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Speaker 4: over those three point three months. January last year was

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Speaker 4: a very inflationary month. So everything is leaning in terms

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Speaker 4: of the numbers should be coming down, and I expect

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Speaker 4: them to come down over the next few months, but

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Speaker 4: let's see if they do.

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Speaker 2: It speaks to this risk that maybe we stabilize above

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Speaker 2: target on inflation, and Mike, as you know, the worry

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Speaker 2: is that we do stabilize above target. And if you've

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Speaker 2: started to cut interest rates, you have to start hiking again.

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Speaker 2: Is that a concern that you have that if you

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Speaker 2: do start to move, you're stuck in that cycle then

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Speaker 2: and you have to continue and you can't start hiking again.

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Speaker 4: We're always trying to be cautious because you don't really

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Speaker 4: want to reverse course. An interesting period to look at

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Speaker 4: eighty six. In nineteen eighty six, after the end of

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Speaker 4: the Vulgar era, inflation was actually under two percent, and

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Speaker 4: the FED, which had tightened significantly, started loosening significantly. In

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Speaker 4: eighty seven, inflation basically doubled from where it was in

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Speaker 4: eighty six, and the FED started increasing again. So that

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Speaker 4: stuff has happened in history, and you're certainly aware of that,

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Speaker 4: and to the extent you could avoid it, you'd love

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Speaker 4: to avoid.

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Speaker 2: It's that way on.

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Speaker 4: You as an official.

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Speaker 2: Just the experience of Vulcaran cut well.

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Speaker 4: A lot of people write about the history of FED tightening.

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Speaker 4: Cycles don't end well, and so you know it'd be

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Speaker 4: awesome for it to end well. But as you go

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Speaker 4: study the past, it's not like you study the past,

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Speaker 4: you see lots of great examples that you're just dying

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Speaker 4: to duplicate.

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Speaker 1: Let me take the other side of the argument, and

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Speaker 1: that is that inflation is going to keep coming down,

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Speaker 1: but you're not going to move fast enough, and the

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Speaker 1: economy is going to slow more than it needed to,

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Speaker 1: or even go into recession because the FED waited too long.

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Speaker 4: That's the risk you're trying to balance. And like I said,

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Speaker 4: I take a lot of signal about just how historically

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Speaker 4: strong the labor market continue used to be, including the

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Speaker 4: claims numbers we saw this morning, and so you are

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Speaker 4: trying to balance the risk to the employment side of

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Speaker 4: the mandate versus the risk to the inflation side of

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Speaker 4: the mandate. Inflation still elevated, the unemployment side is still

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Speaker 4: very strong. I think that's how I met out right now.

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Speaker 2: We were in Jackson whole number of months ago. We

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Speaker 2: would talking to some of your colleagues about some of

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Speaker 2: the anecdotes they were hearing in that district. Remember that conversation, Lisa,

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Speaker 2: And the guidance that we were getting from some FED

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Speaker 2: officials is that what they're hearing in the district was

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Speaker 2: different to what they were seeing in the data. Did

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Speaker 2: the anecdotes conflict with the economic data?

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Speaker 4: Well, I'll give you some anecdotes. I mean, I was

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Speaker 4: in Western Carolina earlier this week just some things that

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Speaker 4: might be interesting. One is that I saw great Clips

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Speaker 4: had a sale on haircuts for nine to ninety nine,

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Speaker 4: and so that's interesting that even some services are coming

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Speaker 4: down in price. That would be consistent with the data.

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Speaker 4: There's a big paper mill that laid off eleven hundred

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Speaker 4: people in a county of seventeen thousand, and a year later,

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Speaker 4: unemployment that county's down, not up, because there were so

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Speaker 4: many openings for people in manufacturing positions that all of

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Speaker 4: the people who were surplused, who didn't retire, you know,

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Speaker 4: had jobs. So that's confirmatory of a strong labor market.

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Speaker 4: I think the third quarter five percent GDP stuff that

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Speaker 4: wasn't what I was hearing either, and I said the

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Speaker 4: same thing. But today what I'm hearing is people aren't

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Speaker 4: hiring as much, but they're not firing as much either.

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Speaker 4: Price centers understand they're on the back end of the

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Speaker 4: price curve. It's not over yet, but they're on the

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Speaker 4: back end of it. And demand, especially on the consumer side,

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Speaker 4: is still healthy.

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Speaker 3: Do you trust the data? And I say this because

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Speaker 3: some of the headline data people have been saying people

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Speaker 3: aren't responding to the surveys to the same degree post

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Speaker 3: pandemic as they were pre pandemic. Does that factor in?

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Speaker 4: Well, you have to always take data with a grain

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Speaker 4: of salt. You also have to accept it's all you've

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Speaker 4: got right, and you have to be wary of confirmation bias.

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Speaker 4: You know, I like the data when it agrees with

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Speaker 4: what I think, and I don't like the data when

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Speaker 4: it doesn't. So when the data comes in, I take

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Speaker 4: it for what it is and I try to dig

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Speaker 4: into it and understand, you know, does it what's behind

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Speaker 4: the numbers? Like the seasonal since I was talking earlier,

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Speaker 4: But I accept it and then try to test it

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Speaker 4: as opposed to rejecting anything that doesn't agree with my

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Speaker 4: prior hypothesis.

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Speaker 1: I think that great clips offer was for mullets for

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Speaker 1: the Super Bowl er, So did you see.

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Speaker 4: You're nice to say it wasn't just because of my hairline.

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Speaker 4: I've got a cheap offer.

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Speaker 1: The hiring that we have seen in recent months that

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Speaker 1: do you expect that? First of all, was it a

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Speaker 1: surprise to see the December January numbers? And do you

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Speaker 1: expect that to continue or are we going to fall

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Speaker 1: off dramatically? And what we see unemployments start to go

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Speaker 1: up to the four point one percent the SEP calls

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Speaker 1: for I.

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Speaker 4: Was surprised at how strong the numbers were in December

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Speaker 4: and in January. December revised and in January. What I'm

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Speaker 4: hearing is not as much hiring, but definitely not as

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Speaker 4: much firing. That's that's how I put it. To labor hoarding,

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Speaker 4: that's sort of the technical phrase. But especially with frontline people,

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Speaker 4: if you have really fought hard over the COVID era

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Speaker 4: to bring people in your factory or into your restaurant,

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Speaker 4: you're just loath to take the risk of letting them

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Speaker 4: go and try to go into that fight again. And

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Speaker 4: so on the frontline side, people are being careful. To

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Speaker 4: extent that I'm hearing anything on job cuts, it's actually

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Speaker 4: the professional side. It's overhead and you're a business. Maybe

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Speaker 4: your pricing power isn't going to be what you thought

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Speaker 4: it was going to be. You're worried about the risk

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Speaker 4: on the operation side to laying off operating people. Well,

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Speaker 4: let's take a look at our overhead and dinner. That's

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Speaker 4: where you see in some of the jobs announcements you've

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Speaker 4: seen recently. I think disproportionately look like overhead as opposed

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Speaker 4: to frontline.

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Speaker 2: Interesting. Seeing a lot of that this morning. It's wow,

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Speaker 2: we've talked about those companies too. It was a moment

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Speaker 2: in the news conference last week where Chairman Power was

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Speaker 2: asked about the month of March, and it felt like

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Speaker 2: that kind of off the cuff. He just got freezing

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Speaker 2: cold water and poured it all over March. We're trying

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Speaker 2: to work out whether that was Chairman Powe's view or

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Speaker 2: if that's the general view of the committee that you

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Speaker 2: share as well. But perhaps March is just too soon.

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Speaker 4: Well, I don't ever pre judge a meeting, and I

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Speaker 4: don't prejudge the March meeting. We'll see where we get.

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Speaker 4: But I always think Chairman Pal speaks for the committee.

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Speaker 2: He was talking about the sheet too, and that sounded

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Speaker 2: much more interesting. If they're not going to cut interest rates,

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Speaker 2: maybe they make a decision about QT collectively the committee.

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Speaker 2: You can we talk about that. The decision that you've

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Speaker 2: got to make, is it independent of the interest rate decision?

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Speaker 2: For you, what happens with the balance sheet from here?

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Speaker 2: Can you do one and continue with the other.

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Speaker 4: Independent of the the reinterest rate decision? Because you're talking

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Speaker 4: about normalizing and when is the right time to start

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Speaker 4: normalizing rates, and you're talking about normalizing the balance sheet.

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Speaker 4: So we're still in the process of doing that. As

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Speaker 4: Truman Pal said, well, we'll have a conversation about it,

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Speaker 4: and I think it's great that we do that because

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Speaker 4: you want to plan what you do. I still haven't

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Speaker 4: seen any signals that you know, we're closing in a

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Speaker 4: level of ample. You know, you know, at the end

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Speaker 4: of the ample reserves regime A just a number that

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Speaker 4: keeps hitting me. If you add up the overnight RP

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Speaker 4: plus the reserves today, we're still over four trillion. And

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Speaker 4: if you look at September twenty nineteen, we were in

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Speaker 4: the one point two one point three trillion in reserves

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Speaker 4: without an overnight RP and without a standing REPO facility.

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Speaker 4: So I think we're a pretty long way from where

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Speaker 4: we were then. And you know, times change, we'll see

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Speaker 4: where we are. We've got to learn more, but I

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Speaker 4: still think we're a long way from where we were.

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Speaker 2: At you know where I'm going, because you do hear

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Speaker 2: people say that if you start cunning interest rates but

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Speaker 2: you're still doing QT, they're sort of running in opposition

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Speaker 2: to each other. Do not see it that way, Don't

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Speaker 2: Richmond Fed President Tom Barking with us around the table

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Speaker 2: this morning together with Bloomberg's Michael McKee. It's fantastically continue

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Speaker 2: this conversation. The worries of the banking sector of last

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Speaker 2: year different this year. Last year was about working through

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Speaker 2: interest rate sharks. Now it's about potentially credit stress. Is

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Speaker 2: this coming up on the committee when you saw that

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Speaker 2: in NYCB last week the day of the decision. Is

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Speaker 2: this something you will talked about together collectively.

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Speaker 4: Well, commercial real estate, as the Secretary said, is a

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Speaker 4: known issue, and it's an important issue. I was in

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Speaker 4: DC yesterday doing a round table with some real estate executives.

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Speaker 4: That's a market that struggled to come back, and you

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Speaker 4: can feel the stress in the commercial real estate area,

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Speaker 4: particularly of course downtown off US. So that's a real

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Speaker 4: thing in the banks many banks and non banks have

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Speaker 4: exposure to. That's an important thing to take into account

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Speaker 4: in terms of stability. But as I say, it's not

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Speaker 4: a new kind of risk. I mean, we have had

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Speaker 4: real estate shocks before, We've gone through real estate cycles.

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Speaker 4: It wouldn't stun me if you know a bank or

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Speaker 4: two ended up wrong footed in those things. But the

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Speaker 4: system knows that real estate is a you know, asset

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Speaker 4: with a certain amount of risk, and I hope, I

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Speaker 4: hope and expect that you know, we've got enough capital

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Speaker 4: to whether that.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people have speculated that the FED would

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Speaker 3: cut rates in response to another bank failure. Do you

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Speaker 3: think that that's an accurate assessment or do you think

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Speaker 3: that that is not the correct channel of response, because

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Speaker 3: that's basically the base, it's the market. A lot of

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Speaker 3: people are.

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Speaker 4: Saying mandates employment and inflation. You've got to take an

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Speaker 4: account what you think is going to happen to employment

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Speaker 4: and inflation if the economy is to turn south. I mean,

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Speaker 4: that's a case for trying to normalize rates faster, but

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Speaker 4: the kind of we'd have to turn south as opposed

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Speaker 4: to this being some sort of a bank oversight response.

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Speaker 1: The Chairman said that this is a man problem commercial

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Speaker 1: real estate. But I want to ask you if you

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Speaker 1: think that in the context of FED officials, including the

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Speaker 1: then chairman, telling us in two thousand and seven, that

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Speaker 1: real estate.

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Speaker 4: Was not going to collapse. Sorry, And your question is

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Speaker 4: do you have a good handle on this?

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Speaker 1: Can you be sure that this is something that's manageable well?

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Speaker 4: And the banks that we supervise. I mean we're spending

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Speaker 4: a lot of time with them and productively going through

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Speaker 4: the real estate assets and trying to understand what the

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Speaker 4: risks are and what the reserves are against those risks

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Speaker 4: and making sure we've got those things appropriately handled. So

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Speaker 4: in the scope that we've got, we're working hard on that.

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Speaker 4: I think you never know what you don't know, and

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Speaker 4: so you know what might happen in the non bank sector,

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Speaker 4: don't know. You know what could happen, you know with

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Speaker 4: these real estate assets. We'll see. But I think we've

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Speaker 4: got our head down with the banks that we oversee

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Speaker 4: trying to work through it. Well.

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Speaker 1: Does this weigh on your thinking at all about when

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Speaker 1: you might want to cut interest rates? The story that

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Speaker 1: the real estate people tell is that this problem is

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Speaker 1: only going to get worse over time time as companies

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Speaker 1: get closer to their refinancing.

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Speaker 4: I think it's important to take commercial real estate apart.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there are huge parts of commercial real estate

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Speaker 4: that are quite healthy. Data centers would be a good example.

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Speaker 4: Retail is healthy, the holding part of multi family the

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Speaker 4: building has its issues. We're really talking about office in

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Speaker 4: a narrower B and C downtown office space. That's where

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Speaker 4: the biggest risk is and I'm sure there will be

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Speaker 4: losses there already have been and will be losses in

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Speaker 4: that space. But as I said, it's a known variable.

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Speaker 4: If you go back to our stress test assumptions, you'll

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Speaker 4: see pretty significant stress on commercial real estate valuations, and

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Speaker 4: you saw the outcomes for the bank.

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Speaker 3: So there are a lot of known variables out there,

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Speaker 3: which is the reason why we're so worried. And you said,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of worry around this table. We were

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Speaker 3: worrying earlier with a bunch of credit people who are

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Speaker 3: no longer worried because somehow some of these maturities are

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Speaker 3: not an issue. How do you understand the fact that

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Speaker 3: people were talking about zombie companies, they were talking about

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Speaker 3: zombie real estate. They were talking about how the world

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Speaker 3: was going to be turned on its head when the

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Speaker 3: Fed raised rates by five five and a half percentage

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Speaker 3: points make sense? The fact that that just hasn't happened.

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Speaker 4: Is it possible that some of them were wrong. I'm

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Speaker 4: just not sure if it's not that. If it's not so,

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Speaker 4: here are the numbers that have really spoken to me,

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Speaker 4: which is, if you look at the total interest burden

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Speaker 4: for individuals and the total interest burden for companies, and

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Speaker 4: you divide that total interest burden today by total revenue

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Speaker 4: for companies or total personal disposable income for individuals. The

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Speaker 4: numbers have finally now in aggregate, just gotten back to

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Speaker 4: twenty nineteen levels. And so what does that mean. There

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Speaker 4: are a lot of people individuals who refinance their mortgages

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Speaker 4: or pay down their credit cards. There are a lot

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Speaker 4: of companies that refinance their debt when rates were very low,

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Speaker 4: and so they are absolutely companies that are wrong sided,

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Speaker 4: wrong footed in this. But in aggregate, this total interest

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Speaker 4: burden hasn't yet hit the country in that scope. I

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Speaker 4: think that a lot of people are predicted it could.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's a good reason to be cautious on

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Speaker 4: the economy. On the other hand, they couldntinued month over

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Speaker 4: month health of demand. You know, look at GDP for

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Speaker 4: the last half of last year sort of argues against it.

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Speaker 4: But that's what you watch.

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Speaker 2: We've got about two minutes left, which means we should

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Speaker 2: probably talk about something you definitely don't want to talk about,

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Speaker 2: which is politics done in Washington. When senators and officials

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Speaker 2: in Washington start to write letters to the chairman to

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Speaker 2: ease policy. How does the committee respond to that. It's

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Speaker 2: a big election year. You talk about live meetings. We're

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Speaker 2: wondering how live some of the meetings are going into

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Speaker 2: that election. How do you avoid getting into politics?

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Speaker 4: Listen. I think the Chairman was brilliant on sixty minutes,

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Speaker 4: and if you watched it, he sort of closed with

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Speaker 4: a very clear answer to that, which is, we just

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Speaker 4: try to do the right thing. And I think his

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Speaker 4: phrase was integrity is priceless, and I thought that was

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Speaker 4: very well put.

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Speaker 3: The Chairman on sixty minutes also talked about the urgency

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Speaker 3: of the fiscal health of the country. CBO yesterday debt

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Speaker 3: will hit a record high, so much of that is

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Speaker 3: for net interest payments. Is that a reason to potentially

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Speaker 3: cut rates?

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Speaker 4: I assume you'll have other people on and ask the

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Speaker 4: question of whether it's to cut debt. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 4: there's two ways you go. I think we're trying to

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Speaker 4: becus on inflation and unemployment, and I think having rates

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Speaker 4: being restrictive levels is good for the long term. And

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Speaker 4: if we can get inflation down to where we want

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Speaker 4: to and if employment can stay in the right place,

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Speaker 4: rates can normalize that'll reduce that burden. But our objective

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Speaker 4: function is not around the country's debt burden. Our objective

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Speaker 4: function is around what Congress has asked us to do,

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Speaker 4: which is inflation and unemployment.

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Speaker 2: So it's going to see you. Thanks for I appreciate

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Speaker 2: your time. As always, Richmond Fed President Tom bark in

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Speaker 2: there alongside Bloomberg's Michael McKee