WEBVTT - Charlie Marinelli 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:13.365 School of Humans. It was easier to deal with poverty 0:00:13.485 --> 0:00:19.205 and death in India than the lack of spirituality in America. 0:00:21.405 --> 0:00:24.885 This is a quote from Albanian Indian Roman Catholic nun 0:00:24.885 --> 0:00:28.085 and missionary mother Teresa, who spent most of her life 0:00:28.125 --> 0:00:32.165 in India. In this quote, she points out why many Americans, 0:00:32.405 --> 0:00:36.725 including myself, are drawn to India. It's deep religious roots 0:00:36.765 --> 0:00:41.365 and sacred rights and rituals give India a spiritual relevance 0:00:41.725 --> 0:00:44.925 that's lacking in the States, which, as an American, is 0:00:44.965 --> 0:00:49.285 the only Western experience I can speak to firsthand. Like 0:00:49.405 --> 0:00:53.405 I've said before, for spiritual seekers, India is what K 0:00:53.605 --> 0:00:57.445 two is for extreme mountaineers. It's a place people go 0:00:57.645 --> 0:01:01.485 when they want more spiritually, whether that's pushing some sort 0:01:01.525 --> 0:01:05.165 of edge or finding and connecting to a deeper part 0:01:05.205 --> 0:01:12.805 of themselves. It's the extreme. The disappearances covered in this 0:01:12.845 --> 0:01:17.125 podcast could have happened anywhere. People going missing is not 0:01:17.245 --> 0:01:22.045 an Eastern phenomenon. In America, and twenty twenty alone, five 0:01:22.125 --> 0:01:26.045 hundred forty three eighteen people went missing, according to the 0:01:26.125 --> 0:01:30.965 FBI's National Crime Information Center. So for me, it's not 0:01:31.085 --> 0:01:35.925 about sensationalizing India as a place where people vanish, but 0:01:36.005 --> 0:01:40.885 about examining stories allegedly tied to spiritual quests, so that 0:01:40.925 --> 0:01:45.165 these personal stories shed light on the thin line between 0:01:45.245 --> 0:01:49.445 healing and harm and spirituality, and more closely examine the 0:01:49.525 --> 0:01:53.565 cost of enlightenment. These are all stories I chose to 0:01:53.645 --> 0:01:55.845 live with for the past year because of my own 0:01:55.885 --> 0:02:00.085 connection and curiosity around this thin line. So I didn't 0:02:00.165 --> 0:02:03.085 choose India as a setting because I want to vilify it. 0:02:03.565 --> 0:02:07.725 I chose it because as a spiritual seeker, I revere it. 0:02:08.765 --> 0:02:12.725 In America, we don't possess India's spiritual depth and history, 0:02:13.165 --> 0:02:16.525 but there are parallels between the four point five trillion 0:02:16.565 --> 0:02:20.245 dollar New Age wellness spiritual industry in the States and 0:02:20.285 --> 0:02:23.845 the influence gurus in their empires hold in India, which, 0:02:23.885 --> 0:02:27.605 as we've reported, can be used to empower followers or 0:02:27.645 --> 0:02:31.685 abuse them, which in some cases also happens in the 0:02:31.765 --> 0:02:36.925 unregulated New Age wellness spiritual industry in the West. Matthew Remsky, 0:02:37.125 --> 0:02:41.645 a journalist who's podcasts Conspirituality, a weekly study on converging 0:02:41.685 --> 0:02:45.485 conspiracy theories with wellness utopianism, shared his thoughts on this 0:02:45.565 --> 0:02:50.405 parallel with me Fi. Matthew uses the term charismatic leader, 0:02:50.565 --> 0:02:54.605 which basically means someone or something like an organization that 0:02:54.685 --> 0:02:58.565 attracts attention due to their charisma. Charisma being a quality 0:02:58.605 --> 0:03:01.725 which sets an individual apart from the ordinary and endows 0:03:01.765 --> 0:03:06.845 them with supernatural, superhuman, or at least exceptional powers or qualities. 0:03:07.645 --> 0:03:13.045 In India, we have Ashram infrastructure and the capacity for 0:03:13.165 --> 0:03:19.085 charismatic leaders to appeal to mainstream versions of you know, 0:03:19.125 --> 0:03:23.445 existing institutional religions, so that can be very effective there. 0:03:24.045 --> 0:03:28.045 But if we take the same model or the same 0:03:28.125 --> 0:03:32.685 lens and look at organizations in North America, you know 0:03:32.765 --> 0:03:37.645 somebody like Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins is a motivational speaker 0:03:37.725 --> 0:03:41.005 and self help guru, though he has a documentary titled 0:03:41.205 --> 0:03:44.525 I Am Not Your Guru. As of twenty nineteen, Robbins 0:03:44.605 --> 0:03:47.885 had seven point nine million followers across his five main 0:03:47.965 --> 0:03:51.325 platforms and he allegedly makes nine million dollars a year 0:03:51.405 --> 0:03:56.365 from those platforms and his seminars. Tony Robbins operates a 0:03:56.485 --> 0:04:02.165 very charismatic organization and he's built an infrastructure to support it. 0:04:02.725 --> 0:04:06.845 Based upon you twenty or thirty years on the workshop circuit, 0:04:07.645 --> 0:04:12.605 there is an entire economic structure of content production that 0:04:12.645 --> 0:04:16.005 backs up the self improvement, personal development and New Age 0:04:16.045 --> 0:04:19.045 spheres that in a way is kind of its own 0:04:19.125 --> 0:04:24.005 religious architecture and its sacred sites are the Esselent Institute 0:04:24.045 --> 0:04:28.885 and the Omega Institute, and its publishing companies are Gaya 0:04:28.965 --> 0:04:33.765 TV or hay House. Esselent Institute and Omega Institute are 0:04:33.845 --> 0:04:39.725 nonprofit educational retreat centers focused on spirituality, consciousness, alternative medicine, 0:04:39.845 --> 0:04:43.445 and more. Gaya TV and hay House published content on 0:04:43.445 --> 0:04:47.685 these subjects. Now, it's a lot less old than the 0:04:47.765 --> 0:04:51.245 religious infrastructure that might be supporting charismatic groups in India, 0:04:51.405 --> 0:04:55.405 but it's no less powerful. The Guru empires of the 0:04:55.485 --> 0:04:58.085 East and the New Age wellness spiritual industry of the 0:04:58.165 --> 0:05:01.565 West are different in many ways, but they're similar in 0:05:01.645 --> 0:05:05.245 one significant way, and that's in the power they both we. 0:05:06.805 --> 0:05:09.245 But the East still has an infinite draw for spiritual 0:05:09.285 --> 0:05:12.245 seekers in the West, which is something Ankita, Gabby and 0:05:12.285 --> 0:05:16.685 I have become even more aware of after launching Astray. 0:05:17.405 --> 0:05:20.445 We're recording this podcast in real time, so as you listen, 0:05:20.645 --> 0:05:23.005 we read the reviews and it's had the effect i'd 0:05:23.005 --> 0:05:26.285 hoped it would. It's igniting conversation and has opened the 0:05:26.285 --> 0:05:28.725 door for people to reach out to me with more 0:05:28.845 --> 0:05:32.765 personal stories that help us further examine the cost of enlightenment. 0:05:33.685 --> 0:05:35.645 So a week ago I got an email from someone 0:05:35.645 --> 0:05:38.405 who'd heard the podcast, and the email they shared a 0:05:38.445 --> 0:05:41.365 story that sounded like the others we've reported on. So 0:05:41.445 --> 0:05:43.445 I knew I had to share it. But what I 0:05:43.485 --> 0:05:48.805 didn't know is how many questions Charlie Marinelli's story would 0:05:48.885 --> 0:05:56.885 ultimately answer. It's July twenty nineteen, and Charlie, an American 0:05:57.045 --> 0:06:00.085 born and raised in California, is ready for his solo 0:06:00.125 --> 0:06:04.445 trip to India. Hell he was born ready. He believes 0:06:04.485 --> 0:06:07.085 India is the next step for him as a seeker 0:06:07.085 --> 0:06:13.845 and explorer hungry for more answers, connection experiences. After backpacking 0:06:13.845 --> 0:06:17.725 through Thailand alone at eighteen, India feels like the optimal 0:06:17.845 --> 0:06:21.325 solo adventure for Charlie at twenty four, especially after hearing 0:06:21.325 --> 0:06:25.045 about his dad's epic travels there. But his dad, also 0:06:25.125 --> 0:06:27.885 named Charlie, warned him he has to keep his head 0:06:27.885 --> 0:06:30.245 on straight while he's in India. It's a different culture. 0:06:30.685 --> 0:06:33.605 The key, according to his dad, is to navigate India 0:06:33.725 --> 0:06:37.645 like bamboo, stay flexible, and go with the flow. His 0:06:37.805 --> 0:06:40.605 Dad says the real beauty of India is that it 0:06:40.685 --> 0:06:45.365 teaches you about patience and humanity. Charlie knows a little 0:06:45.405 --> 0:06:48.565 something about humanity. He was in Saint Croix at a 0:06:48.605 --> 0:06:51.165 plush job, living the life in the tropics with his 0:06:51.285 --> 0:06:53.885 fiance Michelle, when he got a call from his mom 0:06:54.005 --> 0:06:57.925 saying his grandfather at a stroke and was in hospice. Charlie, 0:06:57.965 --> 0:07:01.365 who was extremely close to his grandfather, was devastated. He 0:07:01.445 --> 0:07:03.845 flew home to be with him, and when he died. 0:07:04.085 --> 0:07:08.685 It shook Charlie, but it also awakened something in him. 0:07:08.805 --> 0:07:11.725 He won it out of his lucrative job, hitting the 0:07:11.805 --> 0:07:14.405 token life goals we're all told we should aspire to 0:07:14.525 --> 0:07:16.805 in the West. So he put in his two weeks, 0:07:17.005 --> 0:07:19.405 got a visa for India, and bought a one way 0:07:19.445 --> 0:07:24.285 ticket to Delhi. Charlie left Saint Croix with Michelle and 0:07:24.365 --> 0:07:27.645 moved back to California to prepare for his trip. He's 0:07:27.685 --> 0:07:30.685 obviously going to India for the experience, but he also 0:07:30.725 --> 0:07:34.605 believes the spiritual pulse of India will force him inward 0:07:35.085 --> 0:07:38.565 to more deeply understand who he is, why he's here, 0:07:39.605 --> 0:07:43.525 and why it all matters. The past four years he's 0:07:43.605 --> 0:07:47.445 used psychedelics to help with this. Charlie doesn't abuse these drugs. 0:07:47.485 --> 0:07:50.885 He sees them as a gateway to deeper self reflection, 0:07:51.205 --> 0:07:53.365 and he's considering going back to school to learn how 0:07:53.365 --> 0:07:56.285 to use psychedelics as a tool to heal and assist others. 0:07:56.645 --> 0:07:59.205 And India will give him space and time from friends 0:07:59.205 --> 0:08:01.485 and family to think about all of this on his own. 0:08:02.245 --> 0:08:05.005 Charlie has no itinerary for his trip to India. The 0:08:05.045 --> 0:08:07.445 only thing he's booked as a hostel in Delhi, so 0:08:07.525 --> 0:08:09.725 he's somewhere to sleep off his jet lag. And though 0:08:09.765 --> 0:08:12.405 his mom the Net is weary about him traveling alone 0:08:12.445 --> 0:08:15.125 with no plan, he did it before in Thailand, so 0:08:15.165 --> 0:08:18.685 she trusts this triple pan out the same way. On 0:08:18.805 --> 0:08:23.045 July ninth, twenty nineteen, Charlie lands in Delhi, and just 0:08:23.205 --> 0:08:25.925 as his dad said, as soon as the airport's glass 0:08:25.965 --> 0:08:30.765 doors slide open, it's chaos. Pungent smells, frenzied foot traffic, 0:08:30.845 --> 0:08:35.405 relentless car horns, taxi drivers yelling over each other at him. 0:08:35.485 --> 0:08:38.005 He navigates his way back to his hostel, but after 0:08:38.045 --> 0:08:40.725 a night in Delhi, decides to head to Bagsue, which 0:08:40.765 --> 0:08:44.845 is supposed to be paradise in the Himalayas. A twelve 0:08:44.885 --> 0:08:49.605 hour drive from Delhi on roads navigating steep cliffs, Bagsue 0:08:49.685 --> 0:08:53.245 is near Darmshala, where his Holiness, the Dali Lama has 0:08:53.245 --> 0:08:57.885 sought refuge for six decades. Unlike Delhi, Bagsue is quaint, 0:08:58.165 --> 0:09:03.605 with cobblestone streets, meandering cows, vendors selling chai, cafes and 0:09:03.725 --> 0:09:07.525 marketplaces with mountain view and because it's so far north, 0:09:07.685 --> 0:09:11.605 a mix if Tibetan an Indian residence. Bagsue is where 0:09:11.725 --> 0:09:15.885 Charlie finds community in India and the serenity and time 0:09:15.925 --> 0:09:20.245 to meditate, hike and explore sacred temples dotting the Himalayas. 0:09:21.805 --> 0:09:26.445 He also finds something in Bagsue. He didn't foresee a teacher, 0:09:27.125 --> 0:09:30.605 someone to take him to that next spiritual level, the edge, 0:09:31.045 --> 0:09:34.885 to find a deeper sense of self. But what Charlie 0:09:35.125 --> 0:09:44.325 didn't expect was that he would completely lose himself. If 0:09:44.325 --> 0:09:48.365 there was anything that could make me absolutely break in life, 0:09:48.405 --> 0:09:51.725 it was that I was on the verge of collapsing. 0:09:51.885 --> 0:09:56.885 It was terrifying oof it was a challenging time. These 0:09:56.925 --> 0:10:00.485 are Charlie's parents, Nanette and Charlie. I'll call Charlie's dad, 0:10:00.565 --> 0:10:03.965 Charlie Senior, for Clarity's sake. They're not married anymore. They 0:10:04.005 --> 0:10:07.205 got divorced when Charlie was young. Charlie Senior lives in 0:10:07.245 --> 0:10:11.165 Bali and the NEETs in California. He heard me talk 0:10:11.205 --> 0:10:14.085 about India, and I think that it was the next 0:10:14.125 --> 0:10:18.325 step for him to go challenge himself. I don't know 0:10:18.365 --> 0:10:21.205 if you can learn it if you don't put yourself 0:10:21.205 --> 0:10:24.045 in those positions that are going to test your edges. 0:10:24.645 --> 0:10:29.045 India is a beautiful place to learn this. You're not 0:10:29.085 --> 0:10:32.965 going to learn that in Suburbia America. I was less 0:10:33.045 --> 0:10:35.805 nervous this time because he had done the Thailand trip. 0:10:36.125 --> 0:10:37.885 He could do it, he knew what he was doing. 0:10:38.085 --> 0:10:40.645 I still, you know, took photos of all of his 0:10:40.725 --> 0:10:44.445 credit cards, front and back, his passport, his ID, and 0:10:44.645 --> 0:10:46.885 you wanted him to stay in contact with me. I 0:10:46.885 --> 0:10:49.205 would have preferred that he went with somebody else. But 0:10:49.645 --> 0:10:53.045 I did tell him because he does smoke marijuana and 0:10:53.085 --> 0:10:56.165 I knew that, and I said, you're going to India. 0:10:56.205 --> 0:10:59.525 There's no tolerance there. Do not do not, do not 0:10:59.805 --> 0:11:02.725 do drugs in that country. You can go to prison. 0:11:02.765 --> 0:11:05.125 It is not like America and That's how I left 0:11:05.165 --> 0:11:07.005 him at the airport. They gave him a huge hug 0:11:07.045 --> 0:11:10.325 and I kind of broke down and said, whatever you do, 0:11:11.005 --> 0:11:14.605 do not mess around in that country. Understand their laws 0:11:14.725 --> 0:11:19.085 and take it seriously. So as you can tell, Nanat 0:11:19.125 --> 0:11:22.725 and Charlie Senior had very different expectations for charlie solo 0:11:22.805 --> 0:11:25.845 trip and what he should be prepared for in India. 0:11:26.205 --> 0:11:29.085 Charlie Senior, who had traveled to India, wanted a son 0:11:29.125 --> 0:11:32.045 to have a memorable experience like he did and find 0:11:32.085 --> 0:11:35.165 that edge he was looking for. Nana just wanted her 0:11:35.165 --> 0:11:37.285 son to play it safe in a country halfway around 0:11:37.285 --> 0:11:39.685 the world that doesn't play by the same rules as 0:11:39.725 --> 0:11:44.165 the States. But less than two months later, these two 0:11:44.205 --> 0:11:47.685 were jolted in sync when they realized, in separate houses 0:11:47.725 --> 0:11:51.765 and on separate FaceTime calls with Charlie that something wasn't 0:11:51.885 --> 0:11:57.365 right with their son. I was immediately just shocked at 0:11:57.405 --> 0:12:00.685 what I saw. It wasn't him. It was out of character. 0:12:01.045 --> 0:12:03.485 As I said, He's pushed the edges in other ways 0:12:03.485 --> 0:12:06.525 in the past before and never went to this edge. 0:12:07.205 --> 0:12:10.405 Charlie had hit the edge of something, but it was 0:12:10.485 --> 0:12:18.125 an edge he might not come back from. Most of 0:12:18.245 --> 0:12:22.285 Charlie's time in Bagsue was spent meditating, exploring the Himalayas, 0:12:22.565 --> 0:12:25.725 smoking chill him, and connecting and learning from others who 0:12:25.765 --> 0:12:29.045 spoke a similar with spiritual language to him. But there 0:12:29.125 --> 0:12:31.885 was a turning point in Charlie's trip where things got 0:12:31.965 --> 0:12:35.765 scary for his parents, Nanett and Charlie Sior, and it 0:12:35.845 --> 0:12:38.965 was unclear if their son was feeling the same way. 0:12:39.125 --> 0:12:42.765 When I first realized that Charlie was in trouble, he 0:12:43.045 --> 0:12:44.765 fell out of contact with me for about four or 0:12:44.805 --> 0:12:48.245 five days. And he used to talk to me every day, always, always, 0:12:48.245 --> 0:12:50.285 no matter where he was, he'd call me once a day, 0:12:50.565 --> 0:12:53.245 just checking in hello. But I didn't talk to him 0:12:53.245 --> 0:12:54.965 for about four or five days, and that worried me 0:12:55.005 --> 0:12:56.805 a little bit. So I started sending him text. Just 0:12:56.845 --> 0:12:59.165 send me a quick text. Are you okay? Is everything good? 0:12:59.485 --> 0:13:02.005 He didn't reply for a little while. Then he finally 0:13:02.005 --> 0:13:04.565 did reply and he said, I'm fine. I just want 0:13:04.605 --> 0:13:05.965 to let you know that I'm not going to have 0:13:06.005 --> 0:13:09.325 my cell phone on me for a while. And I said, 0:13:09.405 --> 0:13:13.285 well why not? And he said, because I found my 0:13:13.405 --> 0:13:16.925 teacher and Bob a Gee will be the person that 0:13:17.005 --> 0:13:19.125 will contact you. Once in a while to let me 0:13:19.205 --> 0:13:22.885 know how I am. And I said, Bob a g 0:13:23.125 --> 0:13:25.845 is going to contact me. I said, and why can't 0:13:25.845 --> 0:13:28.485 you have your phone? He said, Mom, because I'm going 0:13:28.525 --> 0:13:31.445 through this process and I can't talk to any family 0:13:31.485 --> 0:13:34.845 or friends. I can't have any contact with them. And 0:13:35.165 --> 0:13:39.085 I said, well that doesn't sound right. Anybody who wants 0:13:39.085 --> 0:13:42.285 to keep contact keep you away from your family and 0:13:42.525 --> 0:13:45.085 friends is up to no good because they don't want 0:13:45.085 --> 0:13:47.525 you to have anybody referencing and saying is that right? 0:13:47.685 --> 0:13:50.605 Or why are you doing that? So I was pretty 0:13:50.645 --> 0:13:54.045 worried about that, and I said, well, how long is 0:13:54.085 --> 0:13:56.965 this going to be? And he said maybe a couple 0:13:57.005 --> 0:13:59.205 of years. I said, are you kidding me? I'm not 0:13:59.205 --> 0:14:01.325 going to have contact with you for a couple of years. 0:14:01.645 --> 0:14:04.725 I said, what about Michelle, Oh, she's coming with me. 0:14:05.725 --> 0:14:08.645 Nanette reached out to Charlie's fiance Michelle, who was in 0:14:08.685 --> 0:14:11.285 Hawaii at the time, and she said she had no 0:14:11.325 --> 0:14:14.845 plans of going to India, but she'd also noticed that 0:14:14.965 --> 0:14:18.805 something was off with Charlie and who was this Baba Gee. 0:14:19.285 --> 0:14:22.005 Charlie Senior has spent time with Bob as in India, who, 0:14:22.005 --> 0:14:24.725 as you know, are also called sadu's. He had met 0:14:24.765 --> 0:14:27.765 the ones that were the real deal, who transcend the 0:14:27.805 --> 0:14:31.725 material world with the wisdom and spiritual insights they teach followers, 0:14:32.605 --> 0:14:36.125 but he'd also run into what he calls bogey yogie 0:14:36.525 --> 0:14:41.845 or fake baba's. The challenges is, if you're a little 0:14:41.885 --> 0:14:45.605 bit vulnerable, you can end up with these babas. And 0:14:45.685 --> 0:14:49.285 I think that my son, he's a good person and 0:14:49.365 --> 0:14:53.005 he tends to be trusting, and that can get people 0:14:53.005 --> 0:14:56.885 in trouble. Charlie Senior knew his son was in trouble 0:14:57.205 --> 0:14:59.845 when he got a call from Michelle saying that something 0:14:59.965 --> 0:15:02.565 was definitely wrong with Charlie and he had to get 0:15:02.565 --> 0:15:05.965 a hold of him. Now. I got him on on 0:15:05.965 --> 0:15:09.445 a video call and I went, oh, this isn't Charlie. 0:15:10.405 --> 0:15:13.525 Something's going on. He had something wrapped around his head 0:15:13.565 --> 0:15:15.325 and he had no shirt on, and he was in 0:15:15.325 --> 0:15:17.605 a cafe. And Dad looked at my new house. I 0:15:17.805 --> 0:15:20.245 just this is where I live. And look at the 0:15:20.285 --> 0:15:23.565 paintings on the wall and look at the whatever, and 0:15:23.605 --> 0:15:27.845 I went, oh. Nanette also had a bizarre FaceTime call 0:15:27.925 --> 0:15:32.205 with Charlie, but on her call, Charlie wasn't alone. There 0:15:32.285 --> 0:15:35.045 was someone else listening in. The next time I talked 0:15:35.045 --> 0:15:40.245 to him, he facetimed me, and I was immediately just 0:15:40.725 --> 0:15:44.045 shocked at what I saw. He was in the dark, 0:15:44.525 --> 0:15:48.725 he had huge earrings on, a shawl wrapped around him, 0:15:48.765 --> 0:15:53.125 and he just looked gaunt. He looked hollow in his eyes. 0:15:53.845 --> 0:15:56.965 He looked so thin, he looked like he was starving. 0:15:57.085 --> 0:16:02.485 He just looked so unhealthy. And he said, Mom, I 0:16:02.565 --> 0:16:05.125 want you to charter a plane and get to Hawaii. 0:16:05.805 --> 0:16:08.165 I'm like, what are you talking about? And I knew 0:16:08.205 --> 0:16:10.125 him and his fiance I wanted to get married in Hawaii. 0:16:10.165 --> 0:16:11.685 I said, did you guys make a date? Are you 0:16:11.725 --> 0:16:14.445 getting married? And he goes, no, you'll see you'll see 0:16:14.565 --> 0:16:17.325 charter a plane and bring the whole family. I said, 0:16:17.405 --> 0:16:19.725 charter a plane. He goes, Mom, quit your job. You 0:16:19.725 --> 0:16:23.445 don't have to work anymore. And I said, Charlie, you're 0:16:23.485 --> 0:16:24.885 losing it. I don't even know what you're saying it 0:16:24.885 --> 0:16:26.205 and I was just talking about did you win the 0:16:26.205 --> 0:16:29.845 lottery or something? What's going on. He goes, well, it's 0:16:29.885 --> 0:16:32.645 something like that. And he kept looking up in the 0:16:32.685 --> 0:16:36.125 corner someplace at somebody. His eyes kept averting and he 0:16:36.165 --> 0:16:39.525 would make a little nod, and I said, who are 0:16:39.525 --> 0:16:43.645 you looking at? And he goes, nobody, nobody, it's nothing, 0:16:44.165 --> 0:16:49.885 and he just keep looking up like somebody was directing him. 0:16:50.085 --> 0:16:53.325 In a text exchange with Charlie that followed the initial 0:16:53.365 --> 0:16:56.365 call they had about the Baba, Nanat asked what Charlie 0:16:56.405 --> 0:17:01.445 was studying with him. Charlie responded, I don't know, spiritual things. 0:17:02.645 --> 0:17:06.205 This response sounds eerily similar to the other stories we've 0:17:06.205 --> 0:17:09.605 shared of men who had cryptic sign offs before disappearing. 0:17:11.565 --> 0:17:14.045 But at this point, Nanette, who was still on FaceTime 0:17:14.045 --> 0:17:17.645 with Charlie, had eyes on her son and I said, Charlie, 0:17:17.645 --> 0:17:20.725 why are you wearing this shawl all around you? You 0:17:20.765 --> 0:17:22.885 look strange to me? And he said because it's getting 0:17:22.885 --> 0:17:26.005 cold and the Himalayas, mom, it's cold. And I said okay. 0:17:26.005 --> 0:17:27.485 And with the earrings, he goes, do you like that? 0:17:27.565 --> 0:17:30.845 I did it myself. I said, I don't know. That's unusual. 0:17:30.885 --> 0:17:33.805 It doesn't look like you. So he said, So here's 0:17:33.805 --> 0:17:35.085 what I want to do is I'm going to send 0:17:35.125 --> 0:17:37.365 you some money. I'm going to send it to Andrew's bank, 0:17:37.445 --> 0:17:41.005 Andrews's brother, my other son, and I want you to 0:17:41.085 --> 0:17:43.645 charter plan and just get over to Hawaii. And I said, Charlie, 0:17:43.805 --> 0:17:45.645 you're not making any sense to me. Just hold on 0:17:45.685 --> 0:17:48.245 just a moment. So I went in my daughter's room. 0:17:48.805 --> 0:17:51.885 I wanted to verify am I hearing this correctly? What 0:17:52.045 --> 0:17:54.765 he's saying to me? That he's this off? And so 0:17:55.325 --> 0:17:59.125 she verified the same thing. And then my son Andrew 0:17:59.205 --> 0:18:02.485 came in the room and he looked at him and 0:18:02.525 --> 0:18:07.805 he said, Mom, there's something wrong. He's on drugs. So 0:18:07.845 --> 0:18:10.725 then of course my alert goes into, you know, high 0:18:10.765 --> 0:18:12.685 gear as a mom. You know, hey, who is he 0:18:12.805 --> 0:18:15.925 looking at. He's in the dark, he's on drug someplace. 0:18:16.925 --> 0:18:19.445 While my other kids were talking to him on FaceTime, 0:18:19.805 --> 0:18:22.085 I called his fiance really quick and I said, have 0:18:22.165 --> 0:18:24.165 you talked to Charlie lately? And she said, yeah, I 0:18:24.205 --> 0:18:27.085 talked to him last night. And I said, how did 0:18:27.085 --> 0:18:29.765 he sound to you? And she said, he told me 0:18:29.845 --> 0:18:32.885 that he was scared and he thought somebody was drugging 0:18:32.925 --> 0:18:35.445 him and he didn't know how to get out of there. 0:18:37.485 --> 0:18:39.765 So I went back and I wanted to get on 0:18:39.885 --> 0:18:43.365 the phone with him, and he said and then he 0:18:43.445 --> 0:18:45.925 was walking someplace in the dark. He had no shoes on. 0:18:46.925 --> 0:18:49.565 I said, Charlie, where are you going. I said, I'm 0:18:49.565 --> 0:18:51.765 going to go get on a bus and I'm going 0:18:51.805 --> 0:18:55.045 to get out of here. And I said what bus? 0:18:55.045 --> 0:18:57.085 He goes, Mom, don't worry about it. I'm gonna get 0:18:57.125 --> 0:18:59.925 on a bus. And my phone's about to die. And 0:19:00.045 --> 0:19:04.565 his phone died, and then I was unable to get 0:19:04.565 --> 0:19:08.765 a hold of him. Ninette knew she had to act fast, 0:19:09.645 --> 0:19:14.085 so I called the embassy right away and I said, 0:19:14.245 --> 0:19:18.325 you know, this is the situation, and explained exactly what happened, 0:19:18.365 --> 0:19:20.765 and they said, get on a plane as fast as 0:19:20.765 --> 0:19:30.125 you can and get to India. When Ninette and Charlie 0:19:30.205 --> 0:19:33.365 Senior realized something was off with their son and he 0:19:33.445 --> 0:19:36.685 might be an immediate danger, they wanted to rescue Mode. 0:19:37.165 --> 0:19:42.645 I immediately found I stoked his friends on Facebook, or 0:19:42.685 --> 0:19:45.445 I think I found someone on Instagram who I had 0:19:45.525 --> 0:19:47.685 seen in a picture or one of his friends he 0:19:47.765 --> 0:19:51.125 mentioned or something. And I got this guy and I went, 0:19:51.405 --> 0:19:54.445 you got to go back up to Bagsue. You got 0:19:54.445 --> 0:19:55.805 to go back up there, and you got to go 0:19:55.845 --> 0:19:58.765 get Charlie. He's in a bad state. This friend in 0:19:58.805 --> 0:20:01.285 the picture was Rennick, who Charlie had met in Delhi 0:20:01.285 --> 0:20:04.125 when he first landed in India and he's like, oh, well, 0:20:04.165 --> 0:20:05.925 you know, I don't know if I get up there, 0:20:05.965 --> 0:20:07.365 and I don't have money in this and that. So 0:20:08.165 --> 0:20:11.245 Guy Western unioned him some money and had him go 0:20:11.285 --> 0:20:15.125 back up there. Having Rennick tracked down Charlie and Bagsue 0:20:15.325 --> 0:20:18.085 was the first step. The next step was for Nanette 0:20:18.125 --> 0:20:21.845 and Charlie Senior to get to India and fast. We 0:20:21.925 --> 0:20:25.005 both applied for visas and we got him really quick. 0:20:25.045 --> 0:20:27.085 We got them the next morning. I don't know, if 0:20:27.445 --> 0:20:29.245 you know, somebody at the embassy made a phone call. 0:20:29.325 --> 0:20:31.445 I don't know, but we got really lucky. We got 0:20:31.445 --> 0:20:34.125 them fast. The embassy got in contact with the local 0:20:34.165 --> 0:20:37.205 police and they gave all of Charlie's information and she 0:20:37.205 --> 0:20:40.525 said they're going to be looking for him, and that's it. 0:20:40.565 --> 0:20:43.405 We packed a bag and got on a plane. While 0:20:43.445 --> 0:20:46.085 in the Neet and Charlie Senior were on their seventeen 0:20:46.125 --> 0:20:49.885 hour flight to India. Rennick was navigating the winding twelve 0:20:49.885 --> 0:20:53.445 hour route from Delhi to Bagsue. By the time we 0:20:53.445 --> 0:20:57.365 were in our layover in Istanbul, I got a phone 0:20:57.365 --> 0:20:59.885 call from Rennick and also from the embassy that the 0:20:59.885 --> 0:21:02.525 police had found him, but they let him go. They 0:21:02.565 --> 0:21:06.325 said he's fine, and I said, he's not fine. They 0:21:06.325 --> 0:21:09.325 don't know him. So however he was talking, they might 0:21:09.365 --> 0:21:12.165 have interpreted as he's okay, but I'm telling you that 0:21:12.205 --> 0:21:14.845 he's not okay. He's in some sort of psychotic state. 0:21:15.565 --> 0:21:19.205 So she called the police back and you put them 0:21:19.205 --> 0:21:23.125 back on the alert to go find him again. And 0:21:23.565 --> 0:21:29.205 Rennick got up there to the cafes and he found Charlie. 0:21:29.845 --> 0:21:33.325 The police asked Rennick to come to the police station 0:21:33.645 --> 0:21:36.885 and sign off a piece of paper that says I've 0:21:36.925 --> 0:21:40.525 got Charlie, I'm in charge of him. Rennick went and 0:21:40.565 --> 0:21:43.525 did that, but by the time he got back up 0:21:43.525 --> 0:21:50.085 to the cafe, Charlie was gone. Charlie performed a vanishing act, 0:21:50.525 --> 0:21:53.725 and it wasn't the last time he was following him, 0:21:53.765 --> 0:21:55.645 and what all of a sudden, Charlie would disappear. He 0:21:55.685 --> 0:21:57.445 would be on the phone with me, I'm like, you 0:21:57.845 --> 0:21:59.845 got eyes on him, and all of a sudden, he's like, 0:21:59.845 --> 0:22:01.885 you're not gonna believe it. He just disappeared. I don't 0:22:01.885 --> 0:22:05.045 know where he went. So after a couple of incidents, 0:22:05.045 --> 0:22:08.645 for Nick would find Charlie and Charlie would suddenly just disappear. 0:22:09.085 --> 0:22:12.125 There came a point where Rennick couldn't find Charlie at all, 0:22:12.845 --> 0:22:16.085 so Charlie went missing. Rennick started the search party and 0:22:16.245 --> 0:22:20.805 got everybody to go looking for him. Finally, some tourists 0:22:20.805 --> 0:22:26.325 found him and they said he looked really confused. So 0:22:26.365 --> 0:22:30.765 I said, Rennick, get him to a hospital. Take him 0:22:30.805 --> 0:22:33.445 to a hospital. Just do what you gotta do to 0:22:33.525 --> 0:22:36.165 get him to a hospital. Whatever you have to do. 0:22:36.285 --> 0:22:38.085 I'll make it up to you. Just please get him 0:22:38.125 --> 0:22:42.325 to a hospital. But Charlie didn't want to go anywhere. 0:22:42.565 --> 0:22:46.205 He was acting erratic and was unstable. Eventually, Rennick was 0:22:46.245 --> 0:22:48.725 able to force Charlie into a car with the help 0:22:48.765 --> 0:22:51.845 of Indian police that were sent by the US embassy. 0:22:52.605 --> 0:22:54.885 He sent me a picture of them in the car 0:22:54.925 --> 0:22:56.725 with Charlie in the middle, and they had two guys 0:22:56.765 --> 0:22:58.965 on the side because I guess apparently he tried to 0:22:59.125 --> 0:23:01.765 escape out of the car again, so they blocked him 0:23:01.805 --> 0:23:05.685 in the car. First hospital they got to, I think 0:23:05.725 --> 0:23:07.645 they were full. They couldn't take him. They went to 0:23:07.685 --> 0:23:10.685 a second hospital. They wouldn't take anybody with any type 0:23:10.685 --> 0:23:14.805 of psychiatric events happening. So they got to a hospital 0:23:14.845 --> 0:23:18.925 in Darmschala. Charlie was refusing to go in at that point. 0:23:19.285 --> 0:23:22.365 He wouldn't go into the hospital. So Rennick facetimed me 0:23:22.805 --> 0:23:27.005 and he said, can you talk to him? He looked 0:23:27.205 --> 0:23:31.325 nothing like himself. He was so thin, He looked like 0:23:31.325 --> 0:23:35.765 he was starving. He had two holes in his hands 0:23:36.005 --> 0:23:38.845 and he held them up seeing and he said, do 0:23:38.885 --> 0:23:43.245 you know what that means? I said, no, Charlie, what 0:23:43.365 --> 0:23:46.165 happened to you? He said, Mom, I don't need water 0:23:46.565 --> 0:23:49.765 or medicine or food. Do you know what this means? 0:23:49.765 --> 0:23:51.645 And he kept pointing to the palms of his hands. 0:23:53.925 --> 0:23:56.885 There were holes and both the palms of Charlie's hands. 0:23:57.605 --> 0:24:00.965