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Speaker 1: Hey, there're folks.

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Speaker 2: It is Monday, January twelfth, and a story developing over

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Speaker 2: the weekend and into this Monday morning, and it has

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Speaker 2: everything to do with a situation you've certainly been through

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Speaker 2: in your life. Ever had a breakup and you think

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Speaker 2: everything was cool, but then you find out the person

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Speaker 2: you broke up with is going around telling everybody that

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Speaker 2: they were the one that dumped you, and then you

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Speaker 2: come back and try to correct the record. Yeah, that

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Speaker 2: thing is happening between the Kennedy Center and the Washington

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Speaker 2: National Opera. And with that, welcome to this episode of

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Speaker 2: Amy and TJ and Rose. The story gets weirder because

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Speaker 2: you think, why is this a big deal?

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Speaker 1: Who needs to take credit? Who dumped whom? Who cares well?

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Speaker 2: Apparently the head of the Kennedy Center cares enough and

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Speaker 2: has I don't I shouldn't say concocted, but has told

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Speaker 2: us a wild story having to do even with his

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Speaker 2: Twitter account being hacked. Yes, folks, that's how we're getting

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Speaker 2: started on this early Monday with this developing store.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 4: Richard Grennell, who is the director of the Trump Kennedy Center,

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Speaker 4: has said that.

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Speaker 1: We need to make a decision what are we going

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Speaker 1: to call it?

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Speaker 4: Well, I we can say the Kennedy Center, but I

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Speaker 4: said it that way because that's how he refers to

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Speaker 4: his title.

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Speaker 1: To make it what here? Officially? What are we going

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Speaker 1: to go with?

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Speaker 2: To make sure we don't get shut down or sued

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Speaker 2: or threatened or whatever? We here on Amy and DJ,

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Speaker 2: we are.

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Speaker 3: Going with what the Kennedy Center?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 2: Then there it is.

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Speaker 3: The NPR actually made a whole NPR made a whole.

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Speaker 4: A whole paragraph as to why they will continue to

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Speaker 4: call it the Kennedy Center, and I stand by that.

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Speaker 4: But yes, on Friday we heard from the Washington National

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Speaker 4: Opera they announced they were parting ways with the Kennedy Center.

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Speaker 3: That's a big deal. This was a forty five year.

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Speaker 4: Relationship, and so of course there were going to be

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Speaker 4: lots of headlines. But I think I think it's fair

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Speaker 4: to start with their statement because it was really non political.

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Speaker 4: It was actually quite kind, quite lovely of a breakup letter,

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Speaker 4: so to speak. So it said that it's seeking an

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Speaker 4: amicable early termination of its affiliation agreement with the Kennedy

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Speaker 4: Center and resume operations as a fully independent nonprofit entity

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Speaker 4: to ensure fiscal prudence and fulfill its obligations for a

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Speaker 4: balanced budget, The Washington National Opera will reduce its spring

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Speaker 4: season and relocate performances to new venues.

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Speaker 3: This is a decision.

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Speaker 4: Centered on doing what is best for the WNO going

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Speaker 4: forward after an amicable transition. The board and management of

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Speaker 4: the company wishes the Center well in its own future endeavors.

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Speaker 2: All Right, no big deal there, or shouldn't have been,

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Speaker 2: the only reason this was a big deal or headlined

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Speaker 2: is because this is another and arguably the most high profile,

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Speaker 2: most significant, most relevant artist leaving the Kennedy Center since

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Speaker 2: Trump took over as head of the Kennedy Center, and

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Speaker 2: since they put his name on the building on the

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Speaker 2: outside in front of John F. Kennedy's name, this living

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Speaker 2: memorial to him, so it's relevant. We see several artists,

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Speaker 2: some artists and names you never heard of, don't know,

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Speaker 2: play folk music, whatever, but still they are artists who

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Speaker 2: are leaving. And there have been some high profile ones

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Speaker 2: as well. We'll get into those. But the point here,

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Speaker 2: Ropes is that this is a big deal and it

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Speaker 2: is significant that this nearly fifty year relationship is ending.

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Speaker 2: They didn't necessarily say because Trump is head or because

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Speaker 2: his name is on the front. Things have changed. We

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Speaker 2: need to leave headlines are made. Okay, let's move on.

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Speaker 2: This was on Friday, or so we thought, and then

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Speaker 2: the story exploded in a way over the weekend.

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Speaker 3: Yes, on Saturday.

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Speaker 4: The director of the Center, Richard Grennell, made it very

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Speaker 4: clear it was their organization, the Kennedy Center, that decided

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Speaker 4: to entie with the Washington National Opera, not the other

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Speaker 4: way around. In fact, he went on to his X

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Speaker 4: account and said, yes, as you mentioned that it had

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Speaker 4: been hacked, because he said he put the story out

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Speaker 4: initially on Friday, but it disappeared. So he wrote, I

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Speaker 4: have alerted X that someone hacked my account last night

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Speaker 4: and deleted my content on our opera announcement and media corrections.

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Speaker 3: X will find the hacker and deal with him or her.

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Speaker 4: The left continues to try and silence people they don't

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Speaker 4: agree with, but they will never succeed.

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Speaker 3: So that was his statement.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, fine, and then he moved. He goes on, right,

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Speaker 2: does he find the statement or he just puts out

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Speaker 2: another one?

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Speaker 3: Well, he retweets.

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Speaker 4: He says he's retweeting his original statement.

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Speaker 2: Was there a screen grab or anything like that is

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Speaker 2: there anything that proved in fact that he had put

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Speaker 2: an original one.

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Speaker 3: Out, not that I saw.

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Speaker 4: The only screen grab he put up was an email

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Speaker 4: exchange between the Kennedy Center and the the Opera saying

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Speaker 4: that yes, see it was mutual. See we were telling

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Speaker 4: them that we wanted to talk see so. But no,

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Speaker 4: he had no screen grab of his alleged original tweet.

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Speaker 3: Okay, his actual tweet.

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Speaker 4: Said, the Trump Kennedy Center has made the decision to

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Speaker 4: end the exclusive partnership with the Washington Opera so we

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Speaker 4: can have the flexibility and funds to bring in operas

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Speaker 4: from around the world and across the US. Having an

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Speaker 4: exclusive relationship has been extremely expensive and limiting in choice

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Speaker 4: and variety. We approached the opera leadership last year with

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Speaker 4: this idea and they began to be open to it.

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Speaker 4: We have spent millions of dollars to support the Washington

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Speaker 4: Opera's exclusivity, and yet they were still millions of dollars

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Speaker 4: in the hole.

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Speaker 3: And getting worse.

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Speaker 4: He starts giving numbers talking about how they've lost money,

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Speaker 4: saying it wasn't financially smart, saying that patrons wanted a refresh,

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Speaker 4: so they said that the Trump Kennedy Center will continue

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Speaker 4: to do what it takes to ensure we have saved

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Speaker 4: and protected America's premier art institution for decades to come.

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Speaker 2: So we saved and protected it by putting somebody else's

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Speaker 2: name in front of the whose memorial it is?

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Speaker 3: Correct?

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Speaker 1: Is what he said, correct. I'm just making yes.

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Speaker 4: And he also claims that they have incredible corporate partners

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Speaker 4: and generous donors who have given us a record breaking

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Speaker 4: fundraising year That certainly flies in the face of what

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Speaker 4: a lot of other outlets are reporting in terms of

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Speaker 4: the financial or the financials of the Kennedy side.

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's any argument there about the financials,

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Speaker 2: and there's no argument about ticket sales going down. The

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Speaker 2: argument is over why it's taking place, and the administration

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Speaker 2: doesn't want to suggest at all and won't be on

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Speaker 2: board with anybody who is possibly making a suggestion that

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Speaker 2: it is Trump himself and his name and what he's

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Speaker 2: done to the Center that is having an impact here.

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Speaker 4: Yes, exactly. So then Grinnell didn't stop there. He was

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Speaker 4: very upset at all the headlines, and this is why

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Speaker 4: he said that he was upset that his ex account

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Speaker 4: got hacked and his original statement got taken down because

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Speaker 4: here are the headlines. The New York Times, Washington National

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Speaker 4: Opera is lee leaving the Kennedy Center, NPR, Washington National

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Speaker 4: Opera leaves Kennedy Center, joining a slew of artist exits.

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Speaker 4: Washington National Opera parts ways with the Kennedy Center, and

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Speaker 4: it's for the best. Washington National Opera cuts ties with

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Speaker 4: the Kennedy Center after long standing partnership.

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Speaker 3: You get the gist.

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Speaker 4: Every single media outlet pretty much reported that it was

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Speaker 4: the Washington National Opera that left the Kennedy Center.

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Speaker 1: Because that's what they told us, right.

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Speaker 2: Their statement says it made clear they weren't beating a

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Speaker 2: drum about it, but they said we had to make

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Speaker 2: a decision to leave. It's they said it was their decision.

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Speaker 2: Media outlets reported what the information was, and that's what

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Speaker 2: we had at the time. I understand, I'm we're supposed

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Speaker 2: to take him in his word. I don't know how

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Speaker 2: to prove anything here a robes this is it's a

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Speaker 2: bizarre story, and it seems like in all those headlines

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Speaker 2: there was a panic, you could argue on his side

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Speaker 2: that oh shit, my boss is going to see all

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Speaker 2: this need to make sure it's understood that we get

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Speaker 2: ahead of this and we make sure we kick them out,

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Speaker 2: and that needs to be the new narrative. This thing

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Speaker 2: about the ex account. This is a public official, or

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Speaker 2: at least he's running the center, and he's tied to

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Speaker 2: the You have to if he speaks, I'm supposed to

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Speaker 2: believe what he says, like I'm compelled to, and I

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Speaker 2: feel a need to right now to believe this guy.

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Speaker 2: But this guy is telling me that someone was able

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Speaker 2: to hack his account, the account of the guy who's

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Speaker 2: the head of the Kennedy Center that's in the center

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Speaker 2: of the news, and a guy who is tied to

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Speaker 2: President Trump. And all they wanted to do was delete

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Speaker 2: a tweet about the opera. Yeah, and if you want

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Speaker 2: me to believe.

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Speaker 3: That, he wants you to believe that.

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Speaker 2: But that is what we're saying. A hacker sophisticated enough

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Speaker 2: to do this. He just wants to take down your

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Speaker 2: opera announce it.

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Speaker 4: He chose that one, not all the other tweet And

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Speaker 4: by the way, Grinnell is a very avid and voracious tweeter.

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Speaker 4: I couldn't believe how much he tweeted this weekend.

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Speaker 1: But Robes if I have access. Can't you put out

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Speaker 1: all kinds?

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Speaker 2: You could have tweeted something very harming, harmful, out the

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Speaker 2: harmful thing you choose to do. I got access to

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Speaker 2: his account. I'm just oops, here's an opera tweet. I'll

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Speaker 2: delete this. This will show them.

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Speaker 3: You make all very good points.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand what they're telling me to believe something

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Speaker 2: that's so far fetched, and I want to believe him

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Speaker 2: because of his position, and this is where we are.

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't have I should trust somebody.

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Speaker 4: No, It's disturbing on a number of levels. And then

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Speaker 4: he went after specific journalists. He went after The New

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Speaker 4: York Times, saying, you never do journalism, Peter, you always

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Speaker 4: do partisan attacks on Republicans. You don't have enough integrity

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Speaker 4: to correct your tweet. So here's a snippet from the

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Speaker 4: opera board chair noting who asked for the separation first.

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Speaker 4: And that's where he put up this screen grab where

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Speaker 4: it basically it just basically said, hey, let's talk about

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Speaker 4: our future. But he went and then he went off

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Speaker 4: on Twitter just or on X talking about how much

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Speaker 4: the opera cost the Trump Kennedy Center sixty four million

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Speaker 4: dollars over the last ten years, basically saying we're so

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Speaker 4: happy that they were willing to end their exclusivity.

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Speaker 3: Patrons win greater variety. But he just keeps.

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Speaker 4: I mean, he went off on X this weekend in

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Speaker 4: between firing off about Gavin Newsom.

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Speaker 3: As well so getting deeply political and just sounding very

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Speaker 3: Trump esque in his.

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Speaker 4: X account, mirroring Trump's truth social account. I didn't know

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Speaker 4: this guy beforehand, so just going over his social media

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Speaker 4: was actually quite enlightening and interesting for someone who is

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Speaker 4: the chairman of the Kennedy Center.

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Speaker 2: Does it even matter leaving versus kicked out? Does that

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Speaker 2: matter to any citizen? Does it only matter as a

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Speaker 2: matter of folks with egos out here trying to make

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Speaker 2: sure a narrative is a certain thing.

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Speaker 1: And no, you didn't dump me, I dumped you. Is

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Speaker 1: what this is?

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Speaker 3: Is it not absolutely what it is because it has

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Speaker 3: no bearing.

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Speaker 2: Nobody's fighting to stay, nobody's fighting to keep them. Everybody

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Speaker 2: agrees this should end. Fine, But now it's important who

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Speaker 2: gets credit who dumped whom. Okay, it's just we got

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Speaker 2: I don't know, it's it's we have reached a level

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Speaker 2: of pettiness, it seems sometimes that is astonishing.

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Speaker 1: At these levels.

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Speaker 3: Wow, well yes.

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Speaker 2: And again, like we said, the Opera House, the Opera,

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Speaker 2: Washington Opera not the only ones to have left.

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Speaker 1: There have been.

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Speaker 2: There has been actually a growing list of artists who

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Speaker 2: have refused now to perform at this center. Will tell

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Speaker 2: you exactly who they are. How long that list is getting?

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Speaker 2: Stay here and we continue here on Amy and TG.

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Speaker 2: I guess it's human nature, right. Nobody wants the the

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Speaker 2: world to think you got dumped. I guess we would all.

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Speaker 2: Isn't this a part out you never? Isn't this just

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Speaker 2: human nature? Is this just regular ego stuff?

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Speaker 3: I feel like it's high school stuff. Though.

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Speaker 4: Don't you get to a certain age where it's okay

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Speaker 4: to say, hey, it didn't work out. I just feel

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Speaker 4: like there is only a certain kind of person. I

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Speaker 4: always attribute it to age, but perhaps it is ego,

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Speaker 4: It is a lot of other things. What does it matter.

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Speaker 4: The relationship is ending. You both wanted it to end.

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Speaker 4: You've both said that it was in your best interest

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Speaker 4: for it to end, So who cares who initiated it?

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Speaker 4: But clearly this has been a massive rub on the

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Speaker 4: Kennedy Center, and they are tired of the headlines that

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Speaker 4: are accurately describing all the artists and all the folks

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Speaker 4: who have cut ties with the Kennedy Center since February

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Speaker 4: of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: Is that, I know it's kind of all over the place,

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Speaker 2: but do you have an idea the number? What are

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Speaker 2: the what's the number out there? I've seen dozens I

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Speaker 2: have seen. It's been a couple of weeks with somebody

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Speaker 2: had an accurate account of exactly eleven.

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Speaker 3: I have like sixteen right now.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And they're all over the place.

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Speaker 2: Even the Opera House didn't they say, I mean I

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Speaker 2: know what the opera is, I say opera House, the

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Speaker 2: Washington Opera they said, even some of their performers, I mean,

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Speaker 2: you can't even put together a full opera. They refusing

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Speaker 2: to come play at that place. So that was an

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Speaker 2: issue as.

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Speaker 3: Well, Yes, it absolutely wasn't.

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Speaker 4: So, yes, some of the big Kennedy Center cancelations is

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Speaker 4: Ray she had a sold out show. That's a big

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Speaker 4: deal because even like the Washington National Opera said, well,

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Speaker 4: they have claimed there was a forty percent drop in

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Speaker 4: ticket sales since Trump, they said, installed himself on the

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Speaker 4: Kennedy Center. They said, people have sent back their brochure

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Speaker 4: shredded in an envelope saying never, never will I return

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Speaker 4: while he's in power. But they say normally their performances

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Speaker 4: had an eighty to ninety percent sell out rate.

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Speaker 3: So for Ester Ray to have a sold out show,

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Speaker 3: big deal. She canceled it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a big deal for she's from that area.

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Speaker 2: She's from that I think Maryland in particular. That was

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Speaker 2: a big deal for her to come home to play

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Speaker 2: the Kennedy.

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Speaker 3: Center, to be in that area, it's a dream.

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Speaker 2: And to step up and to turn that down is Look,

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Speaker 2: I will give them credit.

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Speaker 1: If this is on your heart, if.

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Speaker 2: This is if this doesn't work for you, then fine,

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Speaker 2: I can't. I can't go against that. At the same time,

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Speaker 2: some of the Christmas concerts, in the New Year's concert,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, eh, that you're denying it for everybody kind

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Speaker 2: of a thing.

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Speaker 1: Why do we have to just cancel?

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Speaker 3: So it's that was tough.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I think a reasonable, reasonable person can see

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Speaker 2: both sides of an artist choosing to continue to play

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Speaker 2: there and not wanting.

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Speaker 1: To play there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So yeah, you mentioned the Christmas Eve and the

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Speaker 4: New Year's Eve jash shows. Those were big deals and

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Speaker 4: got a lot of headlines. I don't know how many.

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Speaker 4: The Wicked composer Stephen Schwartz, he had a big event

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Speaker 4: planned and that got he canceled that. Cast members from

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Speaker 4: a performance of Le mis a rob boycotted an event,

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Speaker 4: the touring production of Hamilton. This was going to be

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Speaker 4: a big part of the Kennedy Center they canceled. I

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Speaker 4: don't know how many people know these other names you mentioned.

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Speaker 4: Some of these are folk artists, and certainly like staples

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Speaker 4: of the Kennedy Center, people who come back year after year.

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Speaker 1: There are also people who need the money.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that's a very good point.

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Speaker 4: So for them to cancel it is a huge Some

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Speaker 4: people even put out statement saying, hey, I had to

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Speaker 4: decide whether or not food on the table or my

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Speaker 4: soul were you know what was more important.

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Speaker 3: It literally came to that.

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Speaker 4: So Christy Lee, Wayne Tucker, the Brentano Quartet, Magpie, Doug

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Speaker 4: veronaan Dancers, comedy show, Asian af Chuck read we heard

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Speaker 4: about that, the Cookers, Rhann and Giddon's Balloon Like there's

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Speaker 4: a bunch of names that aren't necessarily household names but significant.

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Speaker 4: More than a dozen people artists, groups have canceled their

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Speaker 4: shows because of this and because of.

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Speaker 3: How they feel about President Trump.

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Speaker 4: Remember he fired the entire board in February, re hired,

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Speaker 4: including the chairman, an entirely new board in February, and

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Speaker 4: then December nineteenth put his name on the actual buildings.

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Speaker 1: Which you say he's chair and the other guy's president.

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Speaker 3: Those are the president, yes, but do not from this chairman.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and and the very angry ex Grnell he is

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Speaker 4: the president.

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Speaker 3: Correct, So yes, there have been a lot of changes.

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Speaker 2: But it's important to remember we talked about the guy

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Speaker 2: who's running the Kennedy Center and everything. No, the guy

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Speaker 2: who's running the Kennedy Center is Trump, That's true, is

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Speaker 2: the head of this thing. So I don't know now

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Speaker 2: what's next, but we talk about how the sales have

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Speaker 2: the ticket sales, and I know Grnell wants to point

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Speaker 2: to the opera house, but they have talked about I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you have the number, but the percentage,

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Speaker 2: how how significant of a drop just since Trump has

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Speaker 2: been there?

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Speaker 1: Okay, that was it?

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Speaker 4: Okay, forty percent drop, so that's a obviously that is

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Speaker 4: a significant number. And we also did the story the

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Speaker 4: other week about the official ratings for the Kennedy Center

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Speaker 4: Honors that Trump hosted for the first time, lowest ratings ever.

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Speaker 4: So this is all stinging him right where it counts

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Speaker 4: for President Trump, and you have.

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Speaker 2: To explain it for him. Well, if the ratings were down, well,

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Speaker 2: we were only a couple days from Christmas when it aired,

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Speaker 2: and we didn't have the advantage of a football game.

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Speaker 2: They went through everything that happens, ticket sales falling off,

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Speaker 2: it's because people hate opera, not because people hate Trump.

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Speaker 2: Ticket sales falling off all is because we're not doing

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Speaker 2: the right artist here, not because of Trump. Everything is

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Speaker 2: about something other than him having an impact.

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Speaker 1: And that is why.

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Speaker 2: And I thought it was and I'm trying to leave

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Speaker 2: room for him being one hundred percent right, and what

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Speaker 2: happened happened on X But it was almost embarrassing to

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Speaker 2: come up with that excuse on the fly. It's how

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Speaker 2: we could be seen and could be and it is

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Speaker 2: being seen by a lot of people and jokes that

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Speaker 2: they're making. Are you serious right now? This is what

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Speaker 2: you came up with just to make sure Daddy doesn't

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Speaker 2: get mad at you.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly what it seems like. We can't prove that

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Speaker 4: that's what happened. But certainly that does seem like the

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Speaker 4: most likely explanation because his version of events just doesn't

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Speaker 4: add up, and.

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Speaker 1: It might it might be true.

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Speaker 2: I just want to leave room, but you can understand

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Speaker 2: why some are seeing this as something else. With that, folks,

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Speaker 2: we always appreciate you spending some time here with us.

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Speaker 2: Just want to hop on and give you a quick

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Speaker 2: Monday morning update that didn't necessarily have to do with

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Speaker 2: death and destruction and horror and everything else we're seeing

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Speaker 2: in the world, but this one, I guess hopefully you

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Speaker 2: smiled a little bit, even though you also shake your head,

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Speaker 2: which is exactly what Roboc is doing on cue, smiling

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Speaker 2: and shaking her head all at the same time. But

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Speaker 2: with that, folks, we appreciate you spending some time with us.

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Speaker 2: You can look for the morning ron We'll have it

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Speaker 2: up for you here and just a little bit here

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Speaker 2: on the feed, But for now, I'm TJ. Holmes on

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Speaker 2: behalf of Amy Robach. Talk to you, very very so