Speaker 1: On this episode of the Heat Check Game five is over.
Speaker 1: What a heartbreaker, just disgusting stuff.
Speaker 2: I am joined by my.
Speaker 1: Guy, another fellow ruder of the Indiana Pacers, who has
Speaker 1: to be despondent tonight because the opportunities were just there.
Speaker 1: And there's so many things that you can point to
Speaker 1: that went wrong, mostly coaching and also some repping, and
Speaker 1: also Halliburton's injury. But let's bring on Damien Barling from Sacramento,
Speaker 1: Di Lo and Casey. That's family right now, break it
Speaker 1: down so much to talk to. Wyatt dropped that motherfucking
Speaker 1: beat that should be Brianna.
Speaker 3: You're listening to the Hottest, the Hottest, it be a
Speaker 3: podcast out here. I said what I said, it's the
Speaker 3: heat Check Check. It's just.
Speaker 2: My god, it's just disgusting.
Speaker 3: Was it not right there? It was right there?
Speaker 4: It wus you know, like we overreact because they were
Speaker 4: making that run and you were like, oh, this is
Speaker 4: what the Pacers do.
Speaker 3: It was going to be right there for him.
Speaker 4: They still had like five or six points to make up, right, Like,
Speaker 4: they still had more stops to get, They still had
Speaker 4: more baskets to make, They still had more plays that
Speaker 4: they had to make work there, and it's just the
Speaker 4: killer was they were like five minutes left in the game,
Speaker 4: Like there was plenty of time to make mistakes, there
Speaker 4: were plenty of time to miss baskets, there was plenty
Speaker 4: of time to not have stops. They just did it
Speaker 4: all in a row where they turned the ball over.
Speaker 4: I think they turned the ball over on four straight possessions.
Speaker 4: Okay se scored on all of those, and it was
Speaker 4: like it was over, like as the run was happening,
Speaker 4: okay see, cut the legs off of it. Within like
Speaker 4: I don't even think it was more than two minutes.
Speaker 4: It was like ninety seconds.
Speaker 2: To me.
Speaker 1: The key thing in this game, and there was a
Speaker 1: lot of them, right, obviously we can kind of encapsulate
Speaker 1: the whole thing first and foremost.
Speaker 2: Okay see gets out to a quickly like they do
Speaker 2: Indiana a bajillion turnovers.
Speaker 1: Haliburton clearly not right, except for the fact that no
Speaker 1: one will tell us that he's not right until Sean
Speaker 1: stops the bomb on us, Like, like, what's that funk band?
Speaker 3: The gap band?
Speaker 1: The gap band, exactly there it is, that's why you're
Speaker 1: my guy drops the bomb on us, like it's the
Speaker 1: gap band. It's like, oh, okay, so there's something wrong
Speaker 1: with Tyres. But the key, the key to me was
Speaker 1: when TJ McConnell came in the game and let the
Speaker 1: like lit the world on fire. Yeah, and gave us
Speaker 1: eight consecutive points. I think he had scored or assisted
Speaker 1: on eighteen third quarter points in a row. He was
Speaker 1: hitting you, he was getting downhill, he was jump stopping,
Speaker 1: making people foul him, giving you the floater over larger defenders.
Speaker 2: It was just electricity. And then for some reason.
Speaker 1: He just took him put them on like, Okay, TJ
Speaker 1: just must need a blow, and we'll just see what
Speaker 1: we have from Tyres. And then we did not see
Speaker 1: TJ McConnell again until it was too late.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they put him. He put him back in when
Speaker 3: the game was over.
Speaker 4: I don't think Rick Carlisle, I don't think makes a
Speaker 4: lot of coaching mistakes. That was I don't want to
Speaker 4: even call that a mistake. I just don't really know
Speaker 4: what he was doing, Like I'm not quite sure, like
Speaker 4: TJ was the spark, Like the fourth quarter run that
Speaker 4: happened in Game one, happened in the third quarter, and
Speaker 4: I think that's what got everybody so excited. I know
Speaker 4: we were preparing to do a TV and we're thinking, Man,
Speaker 4: we're gonna be gifted with another incredible finish. Tyres is good.
Speaker 4: They're gonna trash Tyrese because.
Speaker 3: Of this performance.
Speaker 4: No made field goals, but if this game is in
Speaker 4: the goes the direction we think it's going, he's going
Speaker 4: to have the ball in his hands with three seconds
Speaker 4: left and he's gonna have an opportunity to win his
Speaker 4: second NBA Finals game, And all of us would have
Speaker 4: thought if the shot had gone up, it would have
Speaker 4: gone in. That's just the type of postseason that he's had.
Speaker 4: But TJ was the spark behind all of that, So
Speaker 4: missing so much time in the fourth quarter was a
Speaker 4: bit a bit confusing.
Speaker 2: He came back with three minutes left.
Speaker 1: I'm screaming at my teeth, screaming at my TV. Also,
Speaker 1: I felt like Nemhard just didn't have it, and I
Speaker 1: love Nemhard, just there. The thing that was killing I
Speaker 1: think the Pacers is when they were getting it quote
Speaker 1: unquote getting into their offense, it was just like they
Speaker 1: were running through molasses.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: They would get into the paint and they would see
Speaker 1: a bunch bodies and they would just panic see someone
Speaker 1: in the yellow jersey and just toss it there away.
Speaker 1: And against the thunder and especially Alex Crusoe, very opportunistic defender,
Speaker 1: you just can't give openings to them and allow them
Speaker 1: to get easy transition buckets. That's just demoralizing as you're
Speaker 1: making a run.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so many like their defenders. Like when you look
Speaker 4: at their made threes, their made threes came from that
Speaker 4: bench that you just named right there with Wiggins and
Speaker 4: Caruso and these guys.
Speaker 3: You got Dort hitting multiple threes.
Speaker 4: It's like you have three or four guys making three
Speaker 4: or more threes coming off your bench. Man, Like, I
Speaker 4: don't know how any team competes with that. Like I
Speaker 4: think the Indiana Pacers are one of the best. I
Speaker 4: think they got one of the deepest teams in the league.
Speaker 4: But like, I don't know what you do about that. Like,
Speaker 4: there's there's not another bench in the league that can
Speaker 4: do that. In the closest one might be the Pacers.
Speaker 4: When you have your point guard, you know, you know,
Speaker 4: being hobbled or just struggling or whatever the case may be,
Speaker 4: Like that's you're just not gonna have those same opportunities.
Speaker 1: You think that they was as soon as Tyres went
Speaker 1: to the locker room, do you think we should have.
Speaker 2: No more?
Speaker 4: Tye Na Like I hated that dialogue on the halftime show.
Speaker 4: I thought it was ridiculous. I thought Kendrick Perkins sounded ridiculous.
Speaker 4: He was like, Oh, I have no excuses. If you're
Speaker 4: out there, you need to produce. Like Tyrese isn't making
Speaker 4: an excuse, like Sean Shrine is telling you what's wrong.
Speaker 4: He's telling you what's happened. Tyrese is literally on the
Speaker 4: floor playing basketball like he's not making an excuse. Steven
Speaker 4: A talking about, Oh, he's got to be better, he's
Speaker 4: got to be a superstar. You're either healthier you're not.
Speaker 4: Oh sid him, don't play him, and it's like, Okay,
Speaker 4: we've got to decide what direction we're gonna go.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 4: You're saying, oh, sit him, await for the next game.
Speaker 4: Tyrese sits and doesn't play that game and you find out, oh,
Speaker 4: it's a his cav was sore or it was tight
Speaker 4: or whatever. They're gonna rip him for four days for
Speaker 4: not playing through a soreness in an NBA finals, Like
Speaker 4: you just want to be the contrarian here and take
Speaker 4: whatever the opposite thing is. I don't think they should
Speaker 4: have sat him. He felt like he could play. He
Speaker 4: wanted to get get through it, he wanted to gut
Speaker 4: through it.
Speaker 3: I'm all for that.
Speaker 4: He would have gotten ripped if he didn't play and
Speaker 4: wasn't likely like like actually injured with an injury. So no,
Speaker 4: I'm I'm I like ty I'm a Tyree's fan. I'm
Speaker 4: glad he tried to cut it out a little bit.
Speaker 2: I'm a Tyres fan too. I feel like who that's
Speaker 2: on is Rick Carlisle.
Speaker 1: You don't have it, my guy. You're going only east
Speaker 1: and west. You couldn't get downhill to save his life.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The only player that was getting downhill pretty much at
Speaker 1: all outside of Pascal Siaka.
Speaker 4: Was Yeah, so you gotta be the TJ run happened
Speaker 4: with Tye on the bench.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's the one where if you're Rick Carlisle,
Speaker 4: you just got just keep the hot hand. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 4: not sitting you, but I'm I'm letting. I'm letting my
Speaker 4: guys play, Yes.
Speaker 1: Until until TJ can't go anymore. Yeah, you keep TJ
Speaker 1: out on the floor, and I think that was the
Speaker 1: part that was really interesting. How about on the positive
Speaker 1: side for OKC, Jalen Williams.
Speaker 2: Was a big dog out.
Speaker 1: There, and to me he almost looked maybe maybe I'm tripping,
Speaker 1: But to me, he looked a little Kawhi like in
Speaker 1: his forty plus point performance.
Speaker 2: Not a lot of razzle, dazzle, not a lot of wiggle.
Speaker 3: Well, I was gonna say, you said he's kawhi because
Speaker 3: he's boring.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, like that's the comp like he is just
Speaker 4: like he's boring in interviews. He's he doesn't like show
Speaker 4: very much emotion on the floor, but he is, Like
Speaker 4: tonight was a true you know if the if they
Speaker 4: and I don't know that this particular NBA Finals is
Speaker 4: grabbing a lot of casual fans or casual sports fans,
Speaker 4: casual basketball fans or whatever, but I think tonight was
Speaker 4: like a legit introduction to Jay Dubb for a lot
Speaker 4: of people, like for him to have you know, forty,
Speaker 4: I think Shay got past thirty, like you had those
Speaker 4: guys put up that superstar duo type stat line. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that was that was that was impressive. And then as
Speaker 4: as the Pacers were kind of squandering their opportunity to
Speaker 4: still this game. It was jew who was like, yeah,
Speaker 4: now let's just go ahead and make sure we're going
Speaker 4: back to Oklahoma City up three two.
Speaker 1: And he was super physical, absolutely unstoppable. He got every
Speaker 1: single call from the refs. He's blocking shots out there,
Speaker 1: he's fighting around screens fourteen for twenty five. Some of
Speaker 1: the shots he hit Damien were impossible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that exact. Yeah, what I mean.
Speaker 1: You just put your He was doing things that I
Speaker 1: usually do when Shae is scoring, which you're like, what
Speaker 1: you gonna do about that?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, he like the one in the fourth was crazy.
Speaker 4: The the fact that he has so many different ways
Speaker 4: that he can score like he is, you know, you
Speaker 4: talk about three level scores, multipurpose goes like he can.
Speaker 4: He can score from anywhere, and when he's locked in,
Speaker 4: and we've seen it a few times, maybe not necessarily
Speaker 4: in this series, but we've seen it a few times
Speaker 4: this postseason where he's really locked in and he doesn't
Speaker 4: just go for forty, but he goes for forty on
Speaker 4: like seventeen shots or eighteen shots or something just.
Speaker 3: Absurd where you're left scratching your head.
Speaker 4: Like, man, this dude is really an elite scorer, and
Speaker 4: tonight was one of those nights for him.
Speaker 2: What is he like you said, boring is any but he.
Speaker 1: Yet he he almost like doesn't have a bag and
Speaker 1: yet does have a bag at the same time. It's
Speaker 1: just not flashy because I was like, Oh, he didn't
Speaker 1: really do anything that like dazzled me, and then I watched
Speaker 1: the highlight of him do the like stop to pivot
Speaker 1: spin dirk fade with.
Speaker 2: One leg and I was like, Oh, that was kind
Speaker 2: of tough. Yeah, but when you're relating in real time, it's.
Speaker 4: Kind of like, eh, but it's not your bag until
Speaker 4: you've dug into it a couple of times, right, Like
Speaker 4: if he pulls off that move again in game six
Speaker 4: or we start to see it regularly game seven, then
Speaker 4: it's like, oh, there's that move that you fear, right
Speaker 4: scores like Shay has one that people hate and it's
Speaker 4: kind of that like little push offf move, but you
Speaker 4: can score off of it. There are guys that just
Speaker 4: have those moves that they can go to where they're
Speaker 4: gonna get buckets out of it. And if that becomes
Speaker 4: his yeah, that's problematic for yo.
Speaker 2: You call that move or rent the runway. That's what
Speaker 2: that was.
Speaker 1: It's it's not when it's your bag, it's when you
Speaker 1: rent it and you gotta give it back game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have the option to buy it, Yeah, and then it.
Speaker 2: Will be yours.
Speaker 1: It looks like it's yours in the moment when it's
Speaker 1: when you're out there flossom, but you got to give
Speaker 1: it back.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I think that's that's a really great point.
Speaker 1: And we've seen Jalen Williams disappear at times, but this Finals,
Speaker 1: I feel like he's taking it to a whole new level,
Speaker 1: especially considering that they are keying in on Shae. Shaye
Speaker 1: has just like a casual thirty one. Yeah, but really
Speaker 1: tenn assists was also huge for him too, as they
Speaker 1: were trying to frustrate him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he found is It's funny like he
Speaker 4: found his guys, but he didn't feel like he had
Speaker 4: the impact on the game the way he normally does,
Speaker 4: and that's probably because of what.
Speaker 3: Ja Double was doing. But that bench was so good.
Speaker 4: You just kept getting stopped by Wiggins Caruso like all
Speaker 4: of these different guys who are scoring their hitting threes
Speaker 4: and then every once in Shae would sprinkle in a little.
Speaker 3: Shae just scored five quick points.
Speaker 4: No one cares, though, because Wiggins just hit his third
Speaker 4: three at the game. You know, Jay's up to twenty
Speaker 4: nine at this point, and he just sprinkled in six
Speaker 4: more points. No one's paying attention because we're watching everything
Speaker 4: else he's doing. Shay had a quiet game in which
Speaker 4: he was so so.
Speaker 2: Good, just so good.
Speaker 1: Who else who else impressed you or like who else
Speaker 1: stuck stuck out in general? For you?
Speaker 4: Well, Wiggins one, like Aaron Wiggins, like you, You had
Speaker 4: a couple of opportunities in this series to hit big shots.
Speaker 4: You've had a couple of opportunities in this postseason, like
Speaker 4: he's not given I think he had one thirty minute
Speaker 4: run in.
Speaker 3: Is that was? That was that game too.
Speaker 4: I couldn't even remember if it was this series or
Speaker 4: the or the Western Conference finals. But I feel like
Speaker 4: he's made the most of his minutes and he as
Speaker 4: much of a player with that like level of playing time,
Speaker 4: like he's as he's impressed me as much as anyone
Speaker 4: else has. He takes advantage of the opportunities he has,
Speaker 4: and anytime you have a role player who can do that,
Speaker 4: anytime you have a role player who might play thirty
Speaker 4: minutes one night, or might play like ten to twelve,
Speaker 4: but they're going to take advantage of those ten to
Speaker 4: twelve or those thirty, Like you have a winning culture,
Speaker 4: like you have.
Speaker 3: An egoist team.
Speaker 4: It's easy, Like I hate, everyone's got to stay ready.
Speaker 4: It's such like a tired like coach cliche, because I
Speaker 4: don't think most guys can do it, Like even the
Speaker 4: best basketball players in the world, I don't think most
Speaker 4: guys can do it. So when you find one who can,
Speaker 4: it always really really stands out to me, and Waiting
Speaker 4: stand out for it stood out with me with Wiggins and.
Speaker 1: The Thunders case that shit is real. You really do
Speaker 1: have to stay ready because you can be Isaiah Joe
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden mess around to get eighteen
Speaker 1: minutes or right Aaron Wiggins and you're like, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen him in two games. And I was
Speaker 1: talking about this with the Metal Art guys right before
Speaker 1: I came on with you, and we were talking about
Speaker 1: just really all the unsung heroes for both teams are
Speaker 1: on impossibly team favorable contracts like Aaron Ne Smith, like
Speaker 1: Andrew Nemhard like Aaron Wiggins. Both these teams have these
Speaker 1: guys under team control until like twenty twenty seven, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty eight, So you have to wonder, is this is
Speaker 1: this something that we're gonna see repeating We know that
Speaker 1: probably is the case and what people think is gonna
Speaker 1: happen with okay see, but do you think this is
Speaker 1: sustainable for the Pacers, this level of performance and success?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is that I do.
Speaker 4: The answer to your question is I do you talk
Speaker 4: about guys being impressed with Maybe not this particular game
Speaker 4: because this was not a good game for him, but
Speaker 4: I've liked Legit, become like a Nemhart fan, like an
Speaker 4: Internet like I'm a Legit fan. And it was today
Speaker 4: before this game that you know, Casey and I I
Speaker 4: both like kind of acknowledged for the first time because
Speaker 4: he was like, hey, are you rooting for the Pacers?
Speaker 4: And I was like, I think I am, like, and
Speaker 4: I didn't go, I'm not going to lose sleep tonight
Speaker 4: because the Pacers lost. If OKC wins, you know, the
Speaker 4: NBA Finals, like salute to Shay in that group, Like
Speaker 4: what they've done is phenomenal. And he admitted he was
Speaker 4: rooting for the Oklahoma City Thunder, but there was this
Speaker 4: thing where it's just like, yeah, I normally don't have
Speaker 4: rooting interest in this stuff, but I really bought into
Speaker 4: this Pacers team, and part of it was I thought
Speaker 4: they really overachieved last year. I didn't buy the Eastern
Speaker 4: Conference Finals run. I bought the premise of it, but
Speaker 4: I didn't really buy the run. Like they landed there.
Speaker 4: They got that like great, like cool, it happens all
Speaker 4: of the time, salute. But when we got to the offseason,
Speaker 4: I kept saying, like, I think Indiana is going to
Speaker 4: be a top four team next year. Like I don't
Speaker 4: know how real the Eastern Conference Finals run was, but
Speaker 4: I think the the crux of what they're doing is real.
Speaker 4: And they made a couple of acquisitions. I love the
Speaker 4: Nie Smith acquisition. Like, I think they did a couple
Speaker 4: of things this offseason where it was like, yeah, maybe
Speaker 4: they could be better. And then the season started the
Speaker 4: way that it did, and you know, Ty was I
Speaker 4: think dealing with the hamstring and it was like I
Speaker 4: don't okay, I guess I just missed on this one.
Speaker 4: And then the calendar switched to twenty twenty five and
Speaker 4: they went and that's where it was like, Okay, if
Speaker 4: you're not paying attention, and I know everyone's watching the
Speaker 4: Knigs and Dame and Giannis and you're watching all of
Speaker 4: these stars in Boston, Indiana's playing really well. So the
Speaker 4: way that they played the second part of the season,
Speaker 4: I absolutely think can be carried over. And they showed,
Speaker 4: you know when they made the move for Pascal Siakam.
Speaker 4: We were so invested in this because we we know
Speaker 4: that the Sacramento Kings were at a point in on
Speaker 4: a conversation for Pascal Siakam. We know why that deal
Speaker 4: didn't go through. We know why that trade didn't happen.
Speaker 4: We know why he wound up becoming a Pacer and
Speaker 4: not a Sacramento King. And I commended Indiana for It's like, okay,
Speaker 4: this is your move, Like you made your move. You
Speaker 4: got Tyres that was the start, but you made your
Speaker 4: move to say this is what we're doing with the
Speaker 4: trade of the draft picks, the big contract extension Siakam
Speaker 4: and Ty was gonna be what you're building around. Although
Speaker 4: to talk about trading Miles Turner and those two not
Speaker 4: playing together, they're like no, no, no, No, you guys
Speaker 4: have misunderstood. We're all in on Miles Turner, and Miles
Speaker 4: Turner is all in on us.
Speaker 3: And I think the guy who deserves the most credit
Speaker 3: is Rick Carlile.
Speaker 4: Rick Carlisle, let these guys run up and down the
Speaker 4: floor that last year, Hey, go go go ahead, set records,
Speaker 4: be the fastest team in the league. That's great, go
Speaker 4: go do your thing. Great we got we got to
Speaker 4: the Eastern Conference finals, cool suffered some injuries along the way,
Speaker 4: beat some teams.
Speaker 3: It's all good.
Speaker 4: Then the offseason got here and said, I want you
Speaker 4: all to keep doing this. If we play a slightly
Speaker 4: higher line level of defense. I'm not asking you to
Speaker 4: be the Pistons. I'm not asking you to hold teams
Speaker 4: to seventy. I'm asking you to be a slightly better
Speaker 4: defensive team. And that's exactly what they were. They went
Speaker 4: from a team that was in the you know, the
Speaker 4: late twenties in terms of defensive rating all the way
Speaker 4: up to like fifteen and sixteen, and so I am
Speaker 4: completely in on Indiana and what they're building moving forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking to see what they are.
Speaker 1: In the playoffs, they had the number two defensive rating
Speaker 1: in the postseason.
Speaker 2: Behind the OKC Thunders.
Speaker 1: They really stepped it up and it's gotten better and
Speaker 1: better and better. And when you're playing against the OKC
Speaker 1: Thunder and you're making Shay uncomfortable, that really speaks to
Speaker 1: what they did. I do want to ask you, though,
Speaker 1: because I was talking to somebody about this today and
Speaker 1: I haven't thought about it until now, But you talk
Speaker 1: about that Eastern Conference Finals run where they got swept
Speaker 1: by the Celtics, but this was the first team in
Speaker 1: NBA history we had a ninety percent win percentage or
Speaker 1: higher in the like last two minutes of the fourth
Speaker 1: quarter in all four games that they lost.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: So they were the meltdown kids.
Speaker 1: They were literally the heart attack pacers on the other
Speaker 1: side of the coin, and they took that and then
Speaker 1: almost like, I don't know, do you feel like that
Speaker 1: correlates with what we've seen historically on the other side
Speaker 1: of things so far in the postseason this year?
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, they people have referred to them
Speaker 4: like I think they after tie shot went in in
Speaker 4: Game one, like, oh, they're a team of destiny.
Speaker 3: Oh they're really good. And I think they had some
Speaker 3: things to.
Speaker 4: Figure out that that ninety thing is crazy though, that's
Speaker 4: a wild stat Yeah, when you.
Speaker 1: Melt down, I think to that level tis yeah, you
Speaker 1: have to figure something out in the off season that says,
Speaker 1: not only can we not do that ever again? Like
Speaker 1: they just now play It was almost like they didn't
Speaker 1: play through the tape and now they now they completely
Speaker 1: play through the tape where they're down twenty and they
Speaker 1: play through the tape and they do it when they're up,
Speaker 1: they do it when they're down. And I feel like
Speaker 1: those four games against the Boston Celtics, and I'll ask
Speaker 1: I'll ask the GM this summer league because I always
Speaker 1: get dinner with Chad every year, and I'm gonna ask
Speaker 1: him if he feels like those four games were like
Speaker 1: the like the fire that melded them into this version
Speaker 1: of who they are today.
Speaker 2: It's fascinating.
Speaker 1: I've never seen a more resilient team in my life.
Speaker 1: I felt in my heart they were.
Speaker 2: Going to win tonight.
Speaker 4: But the idea, man, so did I in the idea
Speaker 4: that you talk about, like we can't let this happen again,
Speaker 4: This cannot happen. We have to make a change, and
Speaker 4: they do it and execute the change.
Speaker 3: Says a lot.
Speaker 4: It says a lot about the players, It says a
Speaker 4: lot about the coach, and I think it says a
Speaker 4: lot about the organization.
Speaker 3: It says a lot about you know, your friends.
Speaker 4: The general manager going, yeah, maybe we need to get
Speaker 4: a couple of tougher guys here. Maybe you know, you
Speaker 4: talk about Miles Turner. They was talking about Benedict Mathren,
Speaker 4: and well, maybe Benedict Mathren doesn't fit with this team anymore.
Speaker 4: In Indiana looks at it like, no, no, no, no, that's
Speaker 4: one of our tough guys. And I mean he has
Speaker 4: been a catalyst and then winning. He was not great
Speaker 4: last night. He was not great tonight in this this
Speaker 4: this game five, you need him. You don't need him
Speaker 4: to be twenty seven points great, but you can't have
Speaker 4: him be two of eleven bad either. But point being was,
Speaker 4: they stuck with him, and they stuck with him because
Speaker 4: he offers something different than what these other guys do,
Speaker 4: particularly on the defensive end, and it falls into that
Speaker 4: we can't let this happen again type thing, and they've
Speaker 4: been able to execute that and not let it happen again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't think they really I mean because
Speaker 2: they had me Smith a couple of.
Speaker 1: Years ago in that Malcolm Brogden trade. So the the
Speaker 1: I don't recall them really picking anyone else up Las
Speaker 1: last offseason. I think what it really was was they
Speaker 1: let the team marinate. They extended Obi, and a lot
Speaker 1: of people thought that was an overpay for Obie. But
Speaker 1: Obi's been awesome in this postseasons, one of the most
Speaker 1: important players in this final series for Indian I think
Speaker 1: you let go of Buddy Healed because why pay him,
Speaker 1: you lean in? Why have him you don't you don't
Speaker 1: need them, especially when Benedict's there, plant.
Speaker 2: Play Ben Shephard more lean into.
Speaker 1: Him, and then Isaiah Jackson goes down and you have to,
Speaker 1: you know, get some scrubs to come into the team.
Speaker 2: But that that shows I think when.
Speaker 1: You have a team you believe in and you lose
Speaker 1: in a sad fashion, you don't need to make changes
Speaker 1: right away. And I think for like the Knicks, maybe
Speaker 1: you should say, like, we shouldn't switch anything up just yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well that's how I felt about Cleveland too.
Speaker 4: I mean there were a couple of teams where I
Speaker 4: felt like, yeah, just like, let this go a little
Speaker 4: bit longer.
Speaker 3: Cleveland's one of them.
Speaker 4: I know that, But I guess the difference now is
Speaker 4: and maybe this isn't the case with New York, but
Speaker 4: I do think it is the case with the Cavs.
Speaker 3: Are apron concerns like you.
Speaker 4: I've always felt like a team will go, you know,
Speaker 4: deal with the penalties of a second apron or a
Speaker 4: first apron or whatever if they think they can win
Speaker 4: a championship. No one's gonna do it like trying.
Speaker 3: Oh we might be able to do it. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: are we really confident that we can?
Speaker 4: We look ourselves in the mirror and say we put
Speaker 4: together a championship team. I think the people who feel
Speaker 4: like that will deal with the second apron. So I
Speaker 4: don't know how Cleveland feels that was a sixty four.
Speaker 3: Win basketball team. I think I'm not of the belief
Speaker 3: you have to break that up like let that let
Speaker 3: that ride.
Speaker 4: I thought the case. I thought that was exactly the
Speaker 4: same case for the New York Knicks as well. Let
Speaker 4: that ride figure it out, figure out how to play
Speaker 4: mckel bridges and do all of that stuff. Their offseason
Speaker 4: couldn't be off to a worse start because everyone's just
Speaker 4: laughing at them, and now I don't even know what
Speaker 4: to think about the basketball team anymore.
Speaker 1: I honestly feel you got to just call Tips back
Speaker 1: and just say, my bad.
Speaker 3: Just kidding dog, just like, are you up?
Speaker 2: I'm still up?
Speaker 3: What I was looking at our pictures? We look so
Speaker 3: happy back then?
Speaker 2: Hey, you know, like it's that future meme. You know,
Speaker 2: he's like on his phone and he's like, oh yeah.
Speaker 1: I was just driving the garden watching some film.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: I remember that that game that you played all those
Speaker 1: young guys and got us will win against the Pacers.
Speaker 1: I'll never have a moment like that with anybody else.
Speaker 3: An hit me.
Speaker 2: You don't have to respond.
Speaker 4: So it's a hundred percent Billy Donovan getting contracts extensions
Speaker 4: because of the New York Knigs.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love it. I love the downfall of the
Speaker 1: Chicago Bulls. They're gonna pay Josh Giddy so much money.
Speaker 1: And to your point about Cleveland, really circling back to that,
Speaker 1: the one thing that I'll push back on you is
Speaker 1: I don't think you can win with two undersized guards
Speaker 1: that don't play defense.
Speaker 2: I just don't think you can do it. I've seen
Speaker 2: it up close.
Speaker 1: You can get to an Eastern Conference Western Conference Finals
Speaker 1: like the Blazers did with CJ. McCollum and Damian Lillard.
Speaker 1: But that is where you stopped. I don't think you
Speaker 1: can win. I don't think the title has ever been
Speaker 1: won with that type.
Speaker 2: Of a roster.
Speaker 4: So so I'm assuming you swap out Darius Garland, who
Speaker 4: I really would you pair next to Donovan Mitchell then
Speaker 4: big guard?
Speaker 1: Right, So like ideally, maybe you would have just traded
Speaker 1: Darius Garland for Desmond Bane straight up someone like that,
Speaker 1: because he's a bigger, stronger guard who can play defense
Speaker 1: on the perimeter. Yeah, you need somebody that's like in
Speaker 1: the mold of what Orlando is doing with their six
Speaker 1: five six seven guards. Just somebody who can do a
Speaker 1: little bit of everything and it doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: just them getting hidden on defense. And I like Donovan.
Speaker 1: Donovan's a decent defender when he wants to be. But
Speaker 1: it's just kind of a clunky fit with Mobley and
Speaker 1: Jared Allen.
Speaker 2: When it's clicking, it's clicking. But I feel like you
Speaker 2: can punk.
Speaker 4: Them in terms of like building around players are Donovan
Speaker 4: and Dame the Spider Man meme Yes, yes, Okay, where.
Speaker 1: It's like, and then CJ and Darius to.
Speaker 4: An agree or kind of like, you have to have
Speaker 4: very specific play like those guys are elite scores Dame
Speaker 4: one of the greatest shooters we've ever seen, but you
Speaker 4: have to have a very specific player next to him,
Speaker 4: like Steph had Clay, Like you need a guy who
Speaker 4: can do that next to you in.
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And I think those two guards are like Gold, Yeah,
Speaker 1: They're almost impossible to find, which is why.
Speaker 2: And I want to get your thoughts.
Speaker 3: On this four first round pick goals first round.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for first round pick Gold, a six' five guard
Speaker 1: regardless of, wingspan who can shoot forty, three who can
Speaker 1: lock down and protect your point, guard play a little
Speaker 1: point guard if they have, to if your, guard if
Speaker 1: your lead guard gets hurt for some, reason they can
Speaker 1: do that as. Well what did you what did you
Speaker 1: make of The Orlando Magic trading Casep, yeah four first
Speaker 1: round picks in a first round pick.
Speaker 4: SWAK i read the tweet over and over and over
Speaker 4: again BECAUSE i THOUGHT i was reading it wrong or missing,
Speaker 4: something and THEN i, LIKE i didn't understand the four
Speaker 4: first round. PICKS i was just, like this doesn't make.
Speaker 4: SENSE i love Like Desmond baines a ball, player but
Speaker 4: like four first round, picks AND i kept, searching and
Speaker 4: THEN i waited for you know how the tweet comes,
Speaker 4: out and then the follow up tweet comes, out and
Speaker 4: Then sham's posts the. ARTICLE i waited for the article
Speaker 4: to come, out AND i was, Like i'm just going
Speaker 4: to read the article because Clearly i'm missing something AND
Speaker 4: i can't SAY i still fully understand, it BUT i.
Speaker 4: Did as we talked through it, today kind of came
Speaker 4: to the realization That i'm good with, it And i'm
Speaker 4: good with it in the sense, that like we use
Speaker 4: The Rudy gobert trade as an, example we can laugh at,
Speaker 4: it and we can point at, it and we can
Speaker 4: haha and do all of this.
Speaker 3: Well the point Was.
Speaker 4: Rudy gobert's value to the league was not what was
Speaker 4: essentially five first round, picks but his value To, minnesota
Speaker 4: who in that, moment, thought this is what we're missing
Speaker 4: to like compete at the highest level in The Western.
Speaker 4: Conference what will it take for us to get. Him
Speaker 4: let's not leave this open for. Anything this is what it. Takes,
Speaker 4: great that's what we're gonna. Do, again that doesn't mean
Speaker 4: That's Rudy gobert's value to the. League it means that's
Speaker 4: his value to The Minnesota. TIMBERWOLVES i think that's the
Speaker 4: same thing With Desmond, Bane Desmond bank or The Orlando
Speaker 4: magic had been looking for two years for Uh.
Speaker 3: Or this would have been the second year to find
Speaker 3: that shooting.
Speaker 4: Guard does all of this talk About Malik, monk who
Speaker 4: you realize now doesn't even fit What orlando is looking to.
Speaker 4: Do and they Saw Desmond. Bane they Thought Desmond bane
Speaker 4: was the. Guy they made an inquiry about a guy
Speaker 4: we didn't even think was going to be, traded and they,
Speaker 4: said what will it, take AND i maybe they, said,
Speaker 4: well it's going to take four first round. Picks, great
Speaker 4: here's for first round. Picks please send This Desmond bane
Speaker 4: because we believe that that's the piece that we're. Missing
Speaker 4: i'm all for. That, like if your organization is strong
Speaker 4: enough and you've put together something and you believe there
Speaker 4: is a very specific player who has a very specific
Speaker 4: type of fit to your team that you need to
Speaker 4: go get throw whatever you can at them to make it,
Speaker 4: happen AND i.
Speaker 2: Agree with that because what's the.
Speaker 1: Alternative the alternative is what we've seen, before which is
Speaker 1: it can destroy your roster because think about what it
Speaker 1: took to Get Aaron, gordon, right took three first round
Speaker 1: picks For denver to Get Aaron, gordon.
Speaker 2: And they get a ring from.
Speaker 1: That But portland also Wanted Aaron gordon and they felt
Speaker 1: that three first round picks was too. Expensive portland wanted
Speaker 1: to go Get ognanobi thought that those picks were too.
Speaker 2: Expensive and guess.
Speaker 1: What AND i think it's fine that That portland finally traded,
Speaker 1: game but you never really gave it a shot to
Speaker 1: see what you have with the proper specific pieces that
Speaker 1: you must have in order for this roster to, work
Speaker 1: because every roster is uniquely different and has unique holes
Speaker 1: that you must fill in order for.
Speaker 2: It to be a complete.
Speaker 1: Picture otherwise you end, up you, know really being a mediocre.
Speaker 3: Team, yeah and that's most teams in the.
Speaker 4: League like most teams get stuck in like mediocrity because
Speaker 4: you know they're they're they're afraid to take.
Speaker 3: That and This orlando deserves. Credit Like orlando under.
Speaker 4: It they had a bizarre season last year where guys
Speaker 4: were getting, Injured palo was, out they were for some,
Speaker 4: somehow they continue to play at a really high. Level
Speaker 4: palo came back all of a, sudden they, stunk more
Speaker 4: guys got, Injured they fell way below. Expectations they they
Speaker 4: analyzed their, roster determined what they're, missing didn't wait for
Speaker 4: the finals to, end didn't wait for the draft to get,
Speaker 4: here didn't wait for the, like no we want this
Speaker 4: is what we. Need we're gonna go get. Them and
Speaker 4: they went and did. It most most teams don't do.
Speaker 4: That LIKE i cover The Sacramento kings every. Day The
Speaker 4: kings had an opportunity to Land o G, ananobi they
Speaker 4: were either scared by what the trade package was or
Speaker 4: scared by what the contract extension would have looked.
Speaker 3: Like same With Pascal.
Speaker 4: Siakam they appeared to not be scared about what the
Speaker 4: trade package, was but they weren't interested in offering the
Speaker 4: money That Pascal siakam was asking, for which he ultimately
Speaker 4: got from The Indiana. Pacers and so there's this this
Speaker 4: this constant you, know fear of oh well we don't
Speaker 4: want to take a. Swing oh we don't want to do,
Speaker 4: this we want to be financially, responsible we want to
Speaker 4: keep our future.
Speaker 3: Intact and then what do you want?
Speaker 4: It like Like moni McNair's old thing, was, uh we're
Speaker 4: going to maintain our. Flexibility we're going to maintain and
Speaker 4: improve and all of, that and all you did was, Lose, like,
Speaker 4: ultimately that's all that. Happened you stood still after making the.
Speaker 4: Playoffs you couldn't evaluate your roster and go figure, out
Speaker 4: what do we need need to beat The, warriors to
Speaker 4: beat The, lakers to beat the teams that continue to
Speaker 4: advance in this.
Speaker 3: Conference where do we need to go do?
Speaker 4: That, no you just, went we're gonna have a conversation
Speaker 4: with Og. Innobi it's not gonna go. Anywhere we're just
Speaker 4: gonna Sign Harrison. Barnes and it's, like all, right. Man
Speaker 4: so that's WHY i don't laugh At minnesota for making
Speaker 4: that deal For Rudy. Gobert it's WHY i don't laugh
Speaker 4: At orlando for giving up four. Picks you saw this
Speaker 4: as your. Move, great now you got to make it work.
Speaker 1: Well and those two are interesting cases because you're, right
Speaker 1: like you just, said they fit unique. Needs, yeah it
Speaker 1: did not fit a unique? Need Was phoenix trading FOR?
Speaker 1: Kd it was just star hunting at any wing LIKE
Speaker 1: kd fits into any, system but he's not the unique
Speaker 1: piece that you need in order to make The Phoenix sun's,
Speaker 1: work especially considering you already knew this team was getting.
Speaker 2: Older we don't really know what it. Is you're not
Speaker 2: a piece.
Speaker 1: Away you're hanging on for dear. Life and now what
Speaker 1: do you think happens WITH? Kd BECAUSE i was talking
Speaker 1: to Aminel, hassen he, says do you Think, well he
Speaker 1: says there's a dark horse that he won't tell me
Speaker 1: who it is in The Western.
Speaker 3: Conference It's minnesota that has not been.
Speaker 4: Named uh, well just to be, CLEAR i think your
Speaker 4: boy is full of, shit But minnesota like Like minnesota
Speaker 4: has a full on trade. PABOLS i don't, KNOW i
Speaker 4: don't know where that conversation is, at but we have
Speaker 4: it on pretty good. Authority he thought he was getting
Speaker 4: traded To. Minnesota, yeah so Like i'm. NOT i don't
Speaker 4: know who his little dark horse candidate, is but, cool
Speaker 4: Like i'm here for.
Speaker 3: It like let's let's let's.
Speaker 4: Roll.
Speaker 3: UH i read the.
Speaker 4: Thing, UH i MEAN i kind of kept an eye
Speaker 4: on THE i didn't get to read the BUT i
Speaker 4: guess he's he, said like San antonio is the one
Speaker 4: out of the.
Speaker 3: Three it's, like.
Speaker 4: Okay i'd be interested to see what that looks like
Speaker 4: for San. ANTONIO i think you could probably you could
Speaker 4: obviously get a ton of assets from, Them you could
Speaker 4: build out your. Roster they probably wouldn't have to give
Speaker 4: up The Aaron. Fox they certainly don't have to give
Speaker 4: up the number two pick to acquire. Him so, yeah
Speaker 4: kind of fascinating to see what that looks. Like all
Speaker 4: of the teams left in this conversation That katie likes
Speaker 4: are really interesting Except.
Speaker 3: MIAMI i. DON'T i don't find anything compelling About miami at.
Speaker 3: All houston's.
Speaker 4: Fascinating but if there's another team in The Western conference
Speaker 4: it's Not, Minnesota i'm.
Speaker 1: CURIOUS i heard at the trade deadline That dallas was poking.
Speaker 1: Around maybe that sweet could Be, okay that would be
Speaker 1: a fascinating.
Speaker 4: One they, sneaky have the assets to do, It like
Speaker 4: we don't really think of them like.
Speaker 2: That but you could trade Like, gafford why would?
Speaker 3: You why would you do? That with with with With
Speaker 3: kyrie out for the, year.
Speaker 1: Maybe you think you're going to maximize the next two
Speaker 1: to three, years, right this is a kind of a gap.
Speaker 1: Year you're Acclimating Cooper flag into the. Mix you get
Speaker 1: another guard like A i don't know who that would.
Speaker 1: BE i, mean you can't Get Drew holliday if you
Speaker 1: Have Kevin. Durant but then next year you've Got Katie
Speaker 1: kyrie an a d all the d's and all the ease.
Speaker 3: Paws that's a major pat that's a technical. Fel BUT.
Speaker 4: I don't love, it, LIKE i just don't Because, kevin
Speaker 4: Like Kevin, durant is a year older after.
Speaker 1: That, YEAH i don't think anything Like.
Speaker 3: Kyrie like coming. OFF i, DON'T i, DON'T i don't
Speaker 3: LOVE i. DON'T i don't love this.
Speaker 1: Idea don't Like, houston don't Like San. Antonio both teams
Speaker 1: too young to give up these. Assets keep keep the
Speaker 1: lasagna in the. Oven, OKAY i Think minnesota is the
Speaker 1: team that makes the most sense for me in terms,
Speaker 1: of like They're Kevin.
Speaker 2: DURANT i don't.
Speaker 4: Think HOUSTON'S i was gonna, SAY i don't Think houston's too,
Speaker 4: young but LIKE i guess they.
Speaker 3: Are, yeah, YEAH i.
Speaker 4: Guess So minnesota does make sense in terms of like
Speaker 4: going to win right. Now it absolutely makes.
Speaker 1: Sense fascinating. Stuff so let's back back to the. Finals
Speaker 1: real quick. Prediction what do you think happens for game.
Speaker 4: SIX i haven't made a single prediction this entire series except.
Speaker 4: One the one thing THAT i think is happening is
Speaker 4: no one will admit, it especially if the series Ends.
Speaker 4: Thursday no one will admit. It but the series hasn't
Speaker 4: been what people. Thought they've been waiting and waiting For
Speaker 4: Oklahoma city to run away with, it and they just.
Speaker 4: Haven't and so going back To indiana sat out to
Speaker 4: The jackson fire for that, ONE i don't, Know Like i'm.
Speaker 3: Here for, it LIKE i DON'T i don't have a.
Speaker 3: Prediction i'm here for.
Speaker 4: It i'd love to have a Game, sunday, Though LIKE
Speaker 4: i really want a Game, sunday and long as tyres,
Speaker 4: isn't like really, like If tyrese is, hurt THEN i
Speaker 4: don't know that you can survive one, more especially with
Speaker 4: that kind of blood and the water type. Thing but
Speaker 4: if he, can if he can go and be somewhere
Speaker 4: close to who he, IS i, mean we got a
Speaker 4: couple of, days THEN i think that bodes well For.
Speaker 4: Indiana the fact that they didn't run away with, it
Speaker 4: the fact That Oklahoma city didn't run away with it
Speaker 4: until the final minutes Where indiana just they really threw
Speaker 4: it in the. Garbage there is some very light positive
Speaker 4: news to take from.
Speaker 1: That, Again Johnny furfey in the last two minutes with
Speaker 1: the cardiac, kids let's just not do.
Speaker 3: That, yeah let's not to your.
Speaker 1: POINT i don't know if this ends in six people
Speaker 1: won't talk about ten years from now that The pacers
Speaker 1: had the thunder on the ropes and that they melt
Speaker 1: down right in game.
Speaker 2: Four but that's absolutely what.
Speaker 1: Happened and this has been one of the best Finals
Speaker 1: i've seen in a Long it's.
Speaker 3: Been so, good so.
Speaker 4: Good although the talk about markets and ratings and all
Speaker 4: of that dumb, stuff this founder has been.
Speaker 3: Fantastic cannot.
Speaker 1: Wait Damian, barling you can catch him on thirteen to TWENTY, espn,
Speaker 1: which by the, WAY i had to tell somebody is
Speaker 1: not actually AN espn, Station it's An odyssey. Station Do
Speaker 1: Do Do Do despite the fact THAT espn is in the,
Speaker 1: name that is my, Brother so check him Out monday Through,
Speaker 1: friday twelve to.
Speaker 2: Four i'm like.
Speaker 1: Sometimes, pacific Sometimes, eastern SO i had to get the time.
Speaker 1: Right they're a bundle of. Laughs they talk not Only
Speaker 1: sacramento news and the sort Of California Bay Area. News
Speaker 1: but they also talk ALL, NBA, wwe pop, Culture Drake.
Speaker 1: Kendrake it's all there for, you so definitely check them
Speaker 1: out on. YouTube i'm on Every, tuesday just The tuesdays
Speaker 1: for almost an, hour So i've been there four years,
Speaker 1: now running. Strong these guys are the, shit so check them.
Speaker 1: Out that is all the time that We after this
Speaker 1: episode of The Heat, check come Back Friday friday for
Speaker 1: an all the episode and check out the feed for
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Speaker 2: Long that Means. Dallas subscribe to your, friends all of,
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Speaker 3: On, brother, always, always, always always
Speaker 2: All, Right, wyatt drop that beat and this should Be
Speaker 2: rihanna