1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: in one platform that makes it fast and easy to 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: create your own professional website or online portfolio. For a 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: free trial and temperason off your first purchase, go to 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: squarespace dot com slash stuff and use the offer code stuff. 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to you. Stuff you should know from house stuff 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 8 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant that makes this 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: stuff you should know. I'm Jerry's here too. So it's 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: all good. The original gang. That's going pretty good. Man, 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: How are you? I'm great? Good, Okay, then let's get 12 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: to it. Yeah, do you have a good set up 13 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: for this one? It's sorry now, No, I think it 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: kind of speaks for itself. I mean it's bipolar disorder. 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: Like we it's been around long enough, and I think 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: it's been um exposed enough. People have been educated enough 17 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: that you know, anything I do would just seem jackasses. Uh. 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: While we were just talking before we hit record about 19 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: whether not we know anyone who has bipolar disorder, and 20 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: I think most people probably know someone. You might not 21 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: even know it, but um, I definitely like I had 22 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: a very specific friend in college. You had it, and 23 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: that was you know, it was like twenty, so it 24 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: was you didn't know about that stuff when you were 25 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: twenty at least I didn't. So it was very weird. 26 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: And that's first time I've ever heard the term. And uh, 27 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: you know, he fit the profile as far as being 28 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: super up and uh, full of life and energy one 29 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: moment and then super down and very troubled to say 30 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: the least. And this was these are words I'm using 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: from my twenty year old self. You know, I just thought, man, 32 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: he's like he's super super happy or now he's super down. 33 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: But that's this sort of a rudimentary way to describe it. Yeah, yeah, 34 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean that is bipolar to order in 35 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: a nutshell, And that's why they used to call it 36 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: manic depressive disorder too. Yeah. When did they stop that? 37 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: I think maybe in the nineties. It seems like to 38 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: me it sounds about right. Um, and you're you're not 39 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: too far off from everybody knowing somebody with bipolar disorder, 40 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: because apparently about five point seven million adults in the 41 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: US are diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and I think three 42 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: percent of the population worldwide is estimated to suffer from it. Yeah, 43 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: and you said adults. Um, it can manifest itself in children, 44 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 1: but generally, UM, teenage, mid teenage years and up is 45 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: when you're going to first start seeing signs of it. Yeah, 46 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty five from what I understand in general. Um, 47 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: And as you said, Chuckers, like the the condition of 48 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: bipolarity UM is characterized by intense, frequent swings from very 49 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: very happy to very very sad. And it's much beyond 50 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: the average person's mood swings. Because I mean, like if 51 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: if you're fifteen years old and you're listening to this 52 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: and you're like, well, sometimes I'm unhappy and then other 53 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: times I'm said, that's normal. Um, this is far beyond normal. 54 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: Like where you are in either case, like you say, 55 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: super up or super depressed. Um, it's nowhere near what 56 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: you are normally. And in some cases of the most 57 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: severe bipolar disorder, there is no normal. It's either totally 58 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: one way or totally the other, and the person suffering 59 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: from it to swings back and forth, maybe over the 60 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: course of a couple of weeks, UM, and lives like that. Yeah. 61 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: Uh sadly, UM, Like we have a couple of stats 62 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: about the effects. We'll get too early here. H you're 63 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: less likely to have a job if you are bipolar. 64 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: That seems really high. Yeah. Um, ten times more likely 65 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: to abuse alcohol or drugs, which is as a cyclical 66 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: effect because alcohol and drugs are really rough on you 67 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: if you have bipolar disorder. Well, yeah, they can trigger 68 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: a swing one way or the other. Yeah. I saw 69 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: that in my friend actually in college fu. Yeah, and 70 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: of bipolar patients, uh successfully commit suicide out of who 71 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: try it, and those numbers are startingly high. Yeah, yeah, 72 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: that's very high. That's start startlingly startling. Okay, um, so 73 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: let's talk about this. What's the what is I've already 74 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,239 Speaker 1: kind of given a rough overview, but let's dig into 75 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: the symptoms of bipolar disorder. Yeah. They're basically, um, they 76 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: characterize two swings, mania and depression. If you're having a 77 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: manic episode, you're gonna be a great mood, You're gonna 78 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: be high on life, you're gonna have a lot of energy. 79 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: You're probably gonna be talking really fast. And it's called area. 80 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: So what log area? What's that excessive talking? Talkativeness? Oh yeah, um, 81 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: just really fast thoughts like everything. What was that movie 82 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: with brad Cooper and de Niro, Oh, Silverlings Playbook? No, 83 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: the other one, and you're gonna say that, although that 84 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: is what other movie of those two been in together, 85 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: the one with um where you take a pill and 86 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: you can like tap into more of your brain, which 87 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: is de Niro. Isn't that too? Yeah, I don't know 88 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: the name of that movie. I know what you're talking about. 89 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: It wasn't a very good movie, but exceptional or amazing 90 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: or I can't remember. This is at the point when 91 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: people are yelling into their car stereo, including Bradley Cooper. Yeah, 92 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: he's like, you idiot. Yeah, And I can't believe I 93 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: just forgot about Superlians Playbook because that directly covers this. Yeah, 94 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: but what I was talking about was the manic He 95 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: was almost mannek in that other movie where just ideas 96 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: all that I'm at a hyper speed and he just 97 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: couldn't do them fast enough. So that's characteristic of a 98 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: manic episode. Sorry, Bradley Cooper. Uh, you're distracted, you don't 99 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: maybe need as much sleep, you're restless, you're puritable, you 100 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: might want to have a lot of sex. Like everything's 101 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: just uh, magnified, I think, yeah, and with a manic episode, 102 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: they're often like all of this is often accompanied by 103 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: a sensation of euphoria. So most people who suffer from 104 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: bipolar disorder don't go seeking treatment when they're in a 105 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: manic state, right, because they can like that. Yeah, for 106 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: some people a manic state, you can have all these things, 107 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: but it's instead of accompanied by euphoria, it's accompanied by irritability, uh, 108 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: quickness to anger. So it's not all it's not all 109 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: fun and games for everybody. But for the most part, 110 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: if you're in a manic episode and you're bipolar, you're 111 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: you enjoy the manic episodes way more than you enjoy 112 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: the depressive eppisodes. Yeah, and I think both are super 113 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: rough on friends and family because in the manic state, 114 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: you you don't know quite what you're gonna get, you know, right, well, 115 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: like you may you engage in um very risky behavior. 116 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: You may make a bunch of risky investments, may buy 117 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. Um, it can go so far 118 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: as to uh, you can have psychotic symptoms. So in 119 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: a manic episode where you're displaying psychotic symptoms, you may 120 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: think you are God or totally UM, infallible, untouchable, can 121 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: do no wrong, and then that can feed into the 122 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: symptoms of you know, engaging in very risky behavior. You 123 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: can even hallucinate like full on see things. Yeah, you 124 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: can suffer from delusions and hallucinations. So the d s 125 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: M says that if you have a certain number of 126 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: manic symptoms UM for at least one week, then that 127 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: is considered a manic episode. So that has kind of 128 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: changed apparently with the d s M five. This is 129 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: ds M four stuff. With the d s M five, 130 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: they um really kind of they I think that the 131 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: prevailing idea was what's with this whole um bipolar other 132 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: otherwise specified, not otherwise specified. It's just a total cop out, 133 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a minute. But the idea 134 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: that there's like this, you don't fit this one or 135 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: this one, so you fit this generic third. Actually I'm 136 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: glad that's changed. I think they've kind of dug into 137 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: diagnosing even more. We changed some of the thresholds and 138 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: exclusionary criteria and now um it's a it's supposed to 139 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: be a little more laser guided UM. But one of 140 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: the ones, one of the things they did change was 141 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: that for example, UM, I think as little as five 142 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: days of an episode is enough to constitute a diagnosis 143 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: rather than like a week or two weeks or something. Right, 144 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: that makes sense, yeah, um. And then you have hypomania, 145 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: which is sort of like mania light UM, just a 146 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: less intense version of mania. UM. So that's the mannic swing. 147 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: The depressive side of the coin uh is exactly what 148 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: you think, but like amplified by a million. Like you're 149 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: not just sad, you feel despair, and your sluggish and 150 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,719 Speaker 1: you can't focus, and you're restless and you're irritable. Um. 151 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: These are where the suicidal thoughts are coming. So it's 152 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: it's not your garden variety depression that you might feel 153 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: on a day to day basis, because we all feel 154 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: that that's right. And you might also experience UM mixed symptoms, 155 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: which is called a mixed episode. So for example, you 156 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: might have UM like a lot of intense energy, but 157 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: you might also be suffering from feelings of utter despair, 158 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: which sounds like a horrible combination. Um. And basically you 159 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: can take stay any mania and then add um just 160 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: some some of the depressive like suicidal thoughts managed suicidal thoughts, right, 161 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: that would be a mixed episode, right, and then you 162 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: have something called rapid cycling, which is uh, when these 163 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: swings are presenting themselves. Do you know what d S 164 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: M Five says? Like, Uh, I couldn't find that it 165 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: had a lot of um changes to the rapid cycling. 166 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: I think that what they found was that UM drugs 167 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily respond to drugs very well. And they've 168 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: they've kind of started to understand rapid cycling a little more. 169 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: But I don't know what they changed with the diagnostic 170 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: criteria for that. Well, here they characterize it by a 171 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: year of at least four episodes of mania, hypomania or depression. Right, 172 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 1: so like if you have four episodes in a year, 173 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: you've you've got rapids. Apparently that's rapid. I think it 174 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: can be a lot more rapid than that. I think 175 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: like that's the minimum to be considered rapid cycling. Alright, 176 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: So what are the different types of bipolar disorder today? 177 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: There's definitely bipolar one, which is essentially your your life 178 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: is going from one end of the spectrum to the other. 179 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: There's not periods in between really where you're um, where 180 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: where you're stable. Right, that's the most severe obviously, Yeah, 181 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: you have bipolar to which um the sequel that's right. Uh. 182 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: That means you have at least one episode of depression 183 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: and one at least one hypomanic episode, but you could feel, 184 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: you know, somewhat stabilized in between, which is a big 185 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: differentiation apparently between one and two. Um. And then, like 186 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: we said, there used to be bipolar disorder no, not 187 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: otherwise specified the cop out right, and it was there 188 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: was a lot of people who were just kind of 189 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: fitting into this and weren't necessarily getting the right diagnosis. 190 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 1: And I guess they've expanded the criteria um for bipolar 191 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: one and two, and then they've also kind of looked into, um, 192 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 1: massive depressive disorder uh and then said, well, you you, 193 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: this has some aspects of mania as well, and that's 194 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: technically a bipolar disorder too. So they kind of did 195 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: away with it a little bit, I think as they 196 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: thought they were looking bad. Yeah, it's so hard to 197 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: category I mean, I know, they take a lot of heat. 198 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: It's tough to categorize mental illness because it's so different 199 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: for everyone, and well, a lot of people criticize the approach. 200 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: The basis of the d s M is tell me 201 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: how you're feeling, which is flawed in and of itself 202 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: to begin with, because subjective reporting is just completely unreliable. Yeah, 203 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: but you can't take a blood test. And and then 204 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: secondly to to to further subjectively interpret those subjective self 205 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 1: reports uh into supposed you know criteria and then saying well, 206 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: you have XX and X, but you don't have X, 207 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: so technically you're not bipolar, which means you don't have 208 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: your insurance won't cover these meds that you need. The 209 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: whole system is very screwed up, which is why they're 210 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: hoping to do things like create blood test that's say, ah, 211 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: you have bipolar one, and it's because of this UM, 212 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: these neurotransmitters are messed up, so you will respond very 213 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: well to this specific dose of this medicine. I don't 214 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: think we're more than ten years fifteen years away from it, 215 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: but it's it's gonna be a long, horrible ten or 216 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: fifteen years for people who are suffering the most from 217 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: bipolar disorders. That can't come fast enough. Uh. And then 218 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: the final um unless that's gone away, to psyclothymia, is 219 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: that's still around, that is the least severe, and that 220 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: is um at least two years of hypomania and milder 221 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: depression swings. And I think also that's I believe it's 222 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: still around, but I think it's um it's changed a 223 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: little too. And I think that um. Apparently the child 224 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: psychologists of the field said, you guys, there's a lot 225 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: of um exuberance and even mania symptoms that are totally 226 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: normal in adolescents. So let's let's tighten this up a 227 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: little bit because we don't want kids to be diagnosed 228 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: with bipolars because their parents think that they're hyper. Right. 229 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: Put my fifteen year old on lithium exactly. Yeah. So 230 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: I think that they managed to kind of change the 231 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: criteria for cyclothymia, saying this is just above the normal 232 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: threshold of mood swings. Yeah. Um. So, like we said, 233 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: they don't know or I don't know if we did, 234 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: they don't still know what causes it directly, um, nor 235 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: do they know how the drugs that treat it are. Yeah. 236 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of like try this out. 237 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: It's like we know spaghetti will start to stick to 238 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: a refrigerator. We don't know exactly why, but let's strow 239 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: it at the side anyway, but what they do know 240 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: is that genetics can play a role. You are gonna 241 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: have an increased likelihood to develop it if someone in 242 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: your like if your parents had it, let's say, but 243 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: they also have these odd outliers, like you could be 244 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: a twin and your twin has bipolar disorder, but you don't, right, 245 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: So it's just sort of a mystery still. But yeah, 246 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: it seems like they that it does have people are 247 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: genetically predis post and then an environmental factor can trigger 248 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: their bipolar disorder, like a really rough childhood or a 249 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: bad life event or something really really good. But a 250 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: sudden swing in normalcy and a person that is genetically 251 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: predisposed um to bipolar disorder is what can kick it 252 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: off in your life. Yeah. Um, other we already talked 253 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: about drugs and alcohol that can definitely trigger um seasonal changes. 254 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: I think we've talked about seasonal effective disorder SAD. Yeah, SAD, 255 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: which I think I think most people experience a little 256 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: bit of that, right. But again, if you're genetically predisposed 257 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: for the way I see it, and this is totally unscientific, 258 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: but just from researching this, it seems like you you 259 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: have there's a normal baseline for brain chemistry. Uh. And 260 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: it's not a thin line. It's like a pretty good 261 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: sized block. And it's easy to also get outside of 262 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: that one way or the other right, and when you 263 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: are outside of it, you have the symptoms of bipolar disorder. 264 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: And if you're bipolar one, you're just constantly going from 265 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: the top to the bottom of that block. And that 266 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: sounds very scientific and needs to understand the block. Well, 267 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: I mean maybe not scientific, but easy to understand, okay. 268 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: And then if you if you say, have bipolar two, 269 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: you can exist within that normal range, but you can 270 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: be knocked out of it, but your brain chemistry is 271 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: already predisposed to having bipolar disorder by virtue of being 272 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: able to overproduce or underproduce certain neurotransmitters. That's it, I 273 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: think will ultimately be the understanding of it. Well, I know, 274 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: they definitely tie a lot of mental disorders to either 275 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: too much or not enough uh dopamine and serotonin. Like 276 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: it's it's definitely brain chemistry going on, yes, you know, 277 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: and that's yeah, they think that that's the basically the 278 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: basis of it is just fluctuations in brain chemistry like 279 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: super low serotonin during manic and depressive episodes is charted. Yeah, 280 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: and apparently sarotonin's one of the brain one of the 281 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: narrow transmitters that are like, everybody calmed down, let's just 282 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: keep things stable here. That's what sarotonin is. And you 283 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: can have too much dopamine, which can result in both 284 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: mania and depression. Yeah, and I think too much is 285 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: also present in psychosis too, so hallucinations delusions, that's why 286 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: you can have those during such a tough thing to 287 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: try and study, you know. Yeah, I'm reading that. I 288 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: started that book. John Ronson, the great John Ronson, who 289 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: listens to our show, by the way, writer of Men 290 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: who Stare at Goats, oh neat. Yeah, he's a fan. 291 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: And hey John Ronson his his book The psychopath Test. 292 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: Let's started reading that. Yeah, it's super interesting. So far. 293 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: Is it uh, semi historical fiction? Is it nonfiction? Is 294 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: it totally fiction? It's sort of a look at how 295 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: the industry, the mental health industry, tackles mental health. So 296 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: it's not fiction. Yes, that sounds like it's up my alley. Then, yeah, 297 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: I should have said nonfiction right off the bat. You're like, 298 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make you guess. Yeah, I will let you. Uh, 299 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: I'll let you borrow it after a fenshion Actually how 300 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: about that? Okay, and then I will take you up 301 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: on that right after these messages. All right, So I 302 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: guess we can talk a little bit about how it 303 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: has treated medication wise. Um, it is a long term 304 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: illness that is is basically looked at as a uh 305 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: even a lifelong illness for most people, something you have 306 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: to deal with, uh forever. Yeah, Um, medication wise, lithium 307 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: since the nineteen seventies has been the go to. Uh 308 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: it still is. It's a mood stabilizer and it's gonna 309 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: help out with both sides of your mood swings and 310 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: apparently which it works for you, right, And I like, 311 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: like you said, that's the go to and it typically 312 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: like people tend to respond to that. Yeah, it's it's 313 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: a go to for a reason, not just because it 314 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: was first or that there's a Nirvana song he he 315 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: was bipolar, right, sure? Um, and uh, there are alternatives 316 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: to lithium because not everybody responds to it. Not everybody 317 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: has a good reaction to it. With even somebody who 318 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: does respond well to lithium, UM, they have to keep 319 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: a pretty good eye on your lithium levels in your 320 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: blood stream, so you have to visit the doctor quite 321 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: a bit. The whole point of I guess the rigamar 322 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: role that you will go through when you're diagnosed with 323 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: bipolar and say I want to combat this with meds 324 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: UM is basically shooting blind and using a pragmatic approach 325 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: to medicating you into saying, Okay, you're reacting well to 326 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: this one, Let's try a slightly lower dose and see 327 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 1: what happens. And with lithium in particularly, they keep an 328 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: eye on it through through blood tests. But with all 329 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: meds using used to treat bipolar disorder, they're going to 330 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 1: really kind of like, um, try everything. Yeah, and it's 331 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: still like how you feeling, Yeah, tell me how you're feeling, 332 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: not let's do this uh test to read on the 333 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: screen how you're feeling still yeah, you know uh. And 334 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: again part of the reason why is because they don't 335 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 1: quite know how some drugs work. They just know that 336 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: they do work for some people, but not everybody. Yeah. 337 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: Anti convulsants is another UM another one that they use, 338 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: and it's also a mood stabilizer and I think that 339 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: calms down the when your brain is the parts of 340 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: your brain at least that are ramped up and overacting. Right. 341 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: One of the ways that it affects that is by um, 342 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: increasing the amount of GABBA in your brain. You know, 343 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: gabba kind of What does that stand for? Again, it 344 00:20:55,480 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: stands for gamma amino beautyic acid. Obviously, well done, thank you, 345 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: It's been a while since I tried to pronounce something hard. Uh. Well, 346 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: you can use the anti convulsants sometimes, even with lithium. Again, 347 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: it's can be a cocktail of drugs that you're on. Right, 348 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: depending on what works for you. A typical anti psychotics 349 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: can help. Um. They usually use those after they've tried 350 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: the lithium. I think they tried lithium first, unless you're 351 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,239 Speaker 1: a teenage girl or a pregnant woman, right. Um. And 352 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: then uh, the antipsychotics work because um, they affect the 353 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: amount of dopamine in your brain. And again, high levels 354 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: of dopamine can lead to psychotic symptoms, which is why 355 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: they call the drugs that treat those anti psychotics, right. Um. 356 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: And then benzodiazepine a k A. Relaxants. I think those 357 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: are used less, probably because uh, they're addictive or can 358 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: be addictive. Yeah, and then least the short term used 359 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: and they yes, they use them to promote healthy sleep. 360 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: To um, Like you said, one of the symptoms, especially 361 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: of mania, is just going without sleep, like you got 362 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: too much to do and you don't even need it, 363 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: so you don't sleep. Um. And one of the I 364 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: guess the presence of gabba or low amounts of gabba, 365 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: which is a neuro transmitter that's involved in getting sleep. 366 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: I believe staying asleep too, um kind of underlies this 367 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: idea that your sleep cycle is off and it's either 368 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: the result of your bipolar disorder or it's helping to 369 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: cause your bipolar disorder. Either way, they found that promoting 370 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: healthy sleep. For example, there is a thing called dark therapy, 371 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: which is no exposure to artificial light after dark for 372 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: a certain amount of time can help promote healthy sleep 373 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: and can help stabilize bipolar disorder symptoms. All that makes sense, Well, yeah, 374 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: the like it always kills me when I see people 375 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: on Facebook at like three am saying on Facebook that 376 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: they have insomnia, Like, well, you've got a little shiny 377 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: bright screen in your face, start by putting that down 378 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: and see what happens. Um. So yes, So with there's 379 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 1: all these little clues out there, Chuck that, like so 380 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: many pieces of the jigsaw puzzler on the table, they 381 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: just haven't been fit together yet, you know. But it 382 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: seems like there's, um, there's a kind of a hornet's 383 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: nest out there. I wondered, can you live with bipolar 384 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: disorder without medication? And apparently there's a big divide in 385 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: the bipolar community, like there's pro med and anti med 386 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: And I've seen comparisons between talking about like religion or 387 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: politics or meds with bipolar people. It's all the same, 388 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: like you want to avoid those things to keep things friendly. Um. 389 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: But I've seen that some people are like, yes, you 390 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: can live without meds, but you probably can't get too 391 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: stable without meds. And you get the stable, then maybe 392 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 1: you can. But um, there's practically no way to get 393 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: the stable without the help of medications. So people who 394 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: have bipolar story will be like, I've been med free 395 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: for a year, which is great because it means that 396 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: they have managed to fight off episodes and triggers, but 397 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: they've done that through other therapy to not just avoiding treatment. 398 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: Because if you avoid treatment, not only does the does 399 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: does your condition get worse, it gets harder to treat. Yeah, yes, 400 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: the episodes supposedly definitely get worse. Yes, you go. Uh. Well, 401 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: there are all kinds of therapies that you use along 402 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: either in place of your medications or along with and 403 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: we won't get too much into these because we've gone 404 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: through most of them before, but cognitive behavioral therapy of course, 405 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: family therapy, group therapy e c T. We did. We 406 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: did a whole show on e c T, didn't we. Yeah, 407 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: we did. That was a good one. Yeah, electro convulsive 408 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: therapy and UM. One that I hadn't heard of, social 409 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: rhythm therapy. I hadn't heard about this either, but it 410 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: makes utter and complete sense. Yeah, and that has to 411 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: do with UM. I think getting your yourself and your 412 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: body on a set schedule is much better for you 413 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: if you have bipolar disorder, not only just sleep, but 414 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: just regular regulating your your day and your schedule. Yeah. 415 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: And I don't think anybody's suggesting that bipolar disorder is 416 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: a mind over matter type situation, like I think there 417 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: are very few mental illnesses that are that more clearly 418 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: demonstrate the brain based understanding of mental illness than bipolar disorder. 419 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: Like your neurotransmitters and the chemicals in your brain are 420 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: out of whack. It's as simple as that. UM. What 421 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: these other non medication therapies seek to do, especially the 422 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: UM the interpersonal and social rhythm therapy and coignitive behavioral therapy, 423 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: is to get you to confront this thing, to confront 424 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: your condition and learn to understand it. Like, understand what 425 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: your triggers are. Understand that you have to have X 426 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: amount of hours of sleep or night or else you 427 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: may end up in like a manic episode. Understand that, 428 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: like you just can't drink whiskey. Maybe you can have 429 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: a beer like every couple of weeks or something, but 430 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: you can't touch whiskey because you'll end up in like 431 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: a manager a depressed Like, there are triggers out there 432 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: and for you personally, these are your triggers and if 433 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: you avoid them, you can stay in that stable range 434 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 1: and and learn to live with bipolar disorder. Yeah, you know, 435 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: super interesting. Yeah, alright, so right after this break, we're 436 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: gonna talk about whether or not there's a link between 437 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: creativity and bipolar disorder. Hey, Chuck, we've got a pretty 438 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: good website, but not everybody does, even though they might 439 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: want one, Well, we have a team of people putting 440 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: it together. We do, but just the everyday person walking 441 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: around out there has a team of people just waiting 442 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: to help them get their website together. And then a 443 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: Squarespace that's right. It is super easy to use. If 444 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: you want your own website, you can have one with 445 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: simple drag and drop, intuitive features. You don't have to 446 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: learn how to code and do all that stuff. And 447 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 1: even if you get confused, which you probably won't, they 448 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: have great seven customer support. That's right. They're very design 449 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,239 Speaker 1: centric and if you want to create a logo, they 450 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: have an easy logo creator. You can go check it 451 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: out for yourself at squarespace dot com slash logo. Plus, 452 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: you have something to sell on your internet site, well, 453 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,959 Speaker 1: all of their plans have commerce options, from hosting an 454 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: entire store to accepting donations for your personal blog. Yeah, 455 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: and it's a very responsive design, so your website is 456 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: gonna look great on every device, on your laptop, your tablet, 457 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: your mobile phone. It is pretty great, my friends. Guys. 458 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: You can go try squarespace risk free. It goes squarespace 459 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: dot com slash stuff and you'll get a free fourteen 460 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,719 Speaker 1: day trial with no credit card necessary, and if you 461 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: like it, it costs as low as eight dollars a 462 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: month and includes a free domain name if you sign 463 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: up for a year. That's right, So just use our 464 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: offer code s t u f F and you can 465 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: get ten percent off of your first purchase that squarespace 466 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: dot com slash stuff with the offer code s t 467 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: u f F. Alright, buddy. There has long been um 468 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: debate on whether or not creative people are either more 469 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: likely to be bipolar or bipolar can lead to creative genius. Yeah, 470 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 1: didn't we talk about do we do an episode on that? 471 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: It wasn't in a Thinking Cat? I think it was 472 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: in Can this Thinking Cat Make Me a Genius? Episode? Yeah? 473 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: Trans magnetic stimulation Yeah yeah, yeah, Um, yeah, there's there's that. 474 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: It's that latent inhibition kind of thing for schizophrenia and creativity. Yeah. 475 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: I mean, there's definitely like a laundry list of very 476 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: creative people throughout the years that suffer from bipolar, from 477 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: Beethoven to Jimmy Hendrix who wrote Manic Depression, Sylvia Plath, 478 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: at Garlin, Poe excel Rose is on the list. Yeah, 479 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: Graham Green Dickens, did I say, Dickens, No, but you 480 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: just did Francis Ford Coppola, Brian Wilson, The Beach Boys. Yeah, 481 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: he he really had a terrible episode after um did 482 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: Smile ever get released and it it just flopped? Well, 483 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: it got released recently. I never got released at there, 484 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: So something happened that set him off. I guess the band, 485 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: the rest of the band members wanted to go in 486 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: a different direction. Well, he was obsessed with the Beatles too, 487 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: and trying to be better than the Beatles. And I 488 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: mean Smile was up there was pretty good. But yeah, 489 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,959 Speaker 1: I guess it never got released in maybe that's what 490 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: triggered his episode and started the dark years. Yeah, and 491 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: this was long before anybody understood anything like this. Is 492 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: prior to the advent of the use of lithium for 493 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: bipolar disorder. Oh yeah, they didn't come around to the seventies. Uh. So, 494 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: I have a thing that I like to read. It's 495 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: a little long, but there's this great article from Slate 496 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: called what does it feel Like to Have Bipolar Disorder? 497 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: And it was written by someone named Mills Baker. Uh 498 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: And it kind of backs up a lot of what 499 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: we're feeling here, but gives you just a little insight 500 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: since uh, we're not. Since we can't talk firsthand, we'll 501 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: let Mills Baker do it. See mine please. I think 502 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: only in their extremes, armenia and depression actually unintelligible to 503 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: ordinary folks. That is, at their utmost intensity, they're unlike 504 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: anything a normal person experiences. UM, But at most times 505 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: they're not at all so different from the maximally intense 506 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: moods that everyone knows, just more so, longer lasting, and 507 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,239 Speaker 1: disconnected from normative causes. And that seems to be one 508 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: of the big points. Is basically what he's saying is 509 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: that it's not so different maybe than feeling manager depressed yourself, 510 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: but it's way more intense, it lasts for way longer, 511 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: and there's may not be a cause, right and not 512 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: to I don't have bipolar sort of, but it would 513 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: seem like it's too a debilitating degree, like it affects 514 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: the rest of your life negatively. Yeah. Um, bipolar is 515 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: less about short term mood instability than about long term 516 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: mood cycles. Uh. Instability is a part of it, but 517 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: not the only part. Second, the cumulative effected these cycles 518 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: on the formation of a personality significant, so after a 519 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: childhood of radically of radically changing interest and attitudes. On 520 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: such a timeline, one develops a certain excitability, flightiness, distractability, 521 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: or perhaps that's just me again. It's different for everyone, 522 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: but it is a major part of being bipolar, the 523 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: personality that is shaped by a lifetime of intense, fluctuating moods. 524 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: So he's taken just a more macro approach. It's gonna 525 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: make you who you are. You can't just look at 526 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: the bad mood or the upmood. It's gonna basically form 527 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: your personality over the years. Yeah, I would imagine. Uh. 528 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: To know what it feels like is to know the 529 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: quality of that uh phenomenon logical experiences a bipolar person 530 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: encounters that an unaffected person does not. I don't think 531 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: there are many of these going berserk, being creative, having 532 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: an awful temper, not being able to trust my own 533 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: emotional reactions. These have a certain weight when I list 534 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: them out. Uh, they can even sound unique. But everyone 535 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: loses it. Everyone has moments of charisma and creativity and success, 536 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: strength and achievement, and everyone struggles with himself. You may 537 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: not hallucinate, which this guy does, by the way, but 538 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: I can bet you understand what it's like for your 539 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: mind to misbehave and react insanely. If you haven't yet 540 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: lost control of your life, just wait. Uh. And for me, 541 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: the most enduring way that bipolar feels different is in 542 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: how I cannot trust my reactions. I thought this part 543 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: was really interesting. When someone says something to you and 544 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: you recognize it as an insult, for instance, as abuse 545 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: or abuse, you your react to anger is appropriate and 546 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: you can commit to it, or you can make some 547 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: determination based on your values and your reason and choose 548 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: a different course of action. I can't even trust the 549 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: person in that the person even insulted me, So I 550 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: can't trust my emotional perceptions or reactions. So that's got 551 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: to make you just feel way out of sorts if 552 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: you can't even you know, feel like you're trusting your 553 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: own emotions, right like if you that's one that's the 554 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,959 Speaker 1: one thing that you have is your how you're feeling 555 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: about any given situation that makes up your personality and 556 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: large part and if that seems flawed to you, that untrustworthy. Uh. 557 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: And then finally, that is the strangest thing about how 558 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: it feels after the dust of the actual disorder settles 559 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: more than a decade in Uh, this guy is talking 560 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: about his twelve year I think since he was diagnosed 561 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: after more than a decade in the open, insanity has 562 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: abated and visits only briefly. The idea that I'm a 563 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 1: secret artist is absurd. What's left is a more less 564 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: normal life in which I have to emphasize mental hygiene 565 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: like prioritizing regular sleep, for example, and which I always 566 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: feel doubt about what I think and feel, as we 567 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: all probably should anyway. Yeah, so he seems and he's 568 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: on medication, and uh, it seems like he has a 569 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: healthy attitude about it. I think it's interesting to hear 570 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:24,439 Speaker 1: people talking first person about mental illness. Well, it's I'm 571 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: sure it's a lot easier for him to talk about 572 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: it now too, that he's got it licked. Yeah, or 573 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: you know, coping with it at least. So you got 574 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: anything else? I got nothing else. This is a good one. 575 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: Hopefully it helps some people. Yeah, thanks to Mills Baker 576 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: for being open to Slate about the disorder. Thanks to 577 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: Slate and Mills, Mills and Slates. If you want to 578 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: learn more about bipolar disorder, you can type those words 579 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 1: into the search part how stuff works dot com. Uh, 580 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: it will bring up a very good article and a 581 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 1: bunch of other stuff too. Uh. And since I said 582 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: very good article, that means it's time for listener mail. Josh, 583 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this a shark correction. Really. Yeah, remember 584 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: how we um talked about sharks basically perfected themselves and 585 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 1: haven't changed in millions of years? Yeah? Oh yes, yes, 586 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: I was like, we haven't talked about sharks forever, Now 587 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: I remember yet. Yeah. Well, there's some brand new findings, 588 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 1: which is pretty excited in Jake Hayes from New York 589 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: City Sitnizsen. I really enjoyed the Darwin in Natural Selection episodes, guys, 590 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: and thought you might find this recent study published in 591 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: the journal Nature. Uh. That is interesting given the example 592 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: you gave about sharks. Apparently, contrary to the theory that 593 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: they have barely changed over the past hundreds or millions 594 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: of years, they may have evolved significantly actually from their 595 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: ancient ancestors and may not be the living fossils we 596 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: thought they were scientists that thought that shark gills were 597 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 1: an ancient system that predated modern fish. However, a newly 598 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: discovered fossil of a shark that dates back million years, 599 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: so it's a remarkably different gilt skeleton than modern shark. Uh. 600 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: This fossil provides evidence that shark gills have evolved over 601 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: time and that it is actually modern day fish that 602 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: may be the ones with the old GIL systems. The 603 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: new GIL system may have changed over time to help 604 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: sharks sprint after their prey or pry open their jaws 605 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: to eat larger things. So uh, he said, he just 606 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: came across this article and I saw it all over 607 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: the place. Of course, like you know, two weeks after 608 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: we recorded. I think it was even like a day 609 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: or an hour or something. Yeah, I think you're right, 610 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: But it's pretty cool info. And that is uh. Once again, 611 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: Jay Hayes from New York City. Nice, thanks a lot, Jake. 612 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: We appreciate you. And I think a few other people 613 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 1: let us know about it too. Yeah, um, but none 614 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: but Jake was from New York City, so we selected him. Uh. 615 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 1: If you want to let us know you're from New 616 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: York City, we want to hear about it. You can 617 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: hang out with us outside of the podcast on Twitter 618 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,439 Speaker 1: at s Y s K Podcast. You can hang out 619 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: with us on our Facebook page, Facebook, dot com, slash 620 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: stuff you Should Know. We also have Pinterest, Instagram, the 621 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: whole Jam. You can send us an email to Stuff 622 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: Podcast at Discovery dot com, and, as always, join us 623 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: at our home on the web. Stuff you Should Know 624 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 625 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: Does it How Stuff Works dot com