1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: On this episode of Sports Illustrator Weekly, Ben Rhodes from 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: Pod Save the World joins us to discuss the controversies 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: and diplomatic boycott surrounding the Winter Olympics as they begin 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: in Beijing this week, and how the Chinese government might 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: react if an athlete decides to protest at these games 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: and later. Michael Vick's NFL stardom, fall from grace, and 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: subsequent penance have all been well chronicled. But who was 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: he before he was a household name? Vic joins us 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: to discuss the first time he appeared in Sports Illustrated 10 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: and who he was back when he went to Virginia Tech. 11 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: But first, you're gonna hear a lot about Aaron Jackson 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: during these Winter Games. S I Senior writer Stephanie Epstein 13 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: joins us to tell the incredible backstory of how Jackson 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: went from roller derby to speed skating, how she became 15 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: the first black woman to win a World Cup race, 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: and how one mistake at the Olympic trials almost cost 17 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: her a trip to Beijing. It's February two. I'm your 18 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: host John Gonzalez from Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: This is Sports Illustrated Weekly. From a young age, I 20 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: knew that I just wanted to go fast on skates. 21 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: Aaron Jackson is a speed skater from Ocala, Florida, and 22 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: one of sis Olympic cover athletes. I don't really know 23 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: what it is. I just like going fast, you know, 24 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: And um, I just don't get that same speed from 25 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: anything but but speed skating blood. Leading up to this 26 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: year's Olympic Trials, she took the speed Skating World Cup 27 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: season by storm and the sky contracts and is thirty 28 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: seven poppy, and she's doing it always rains and is 29 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: an Olympic season. So what are you? What are you 30 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: dreaming of? Dreaming of Olympic gold like everyone else? Yet 31 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: I believe there's been eight World Cup races and she's 32 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: won four of them. Stephanie Epstein as a senior writer 33 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: for Sports Illustrated who wrote our cover story on Aaron Jackson. 34 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: She's an incredibly dominant skater, and everybody's kind of waiting 35 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: to see just how she's gonna qualified. Part of the 36 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: reason has been she just puts together perfectly assembled five 37 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: un During her race, she stumbles. She's looking to put 38 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: together Oh bitch, slip bitch slipper Aaron Jackson, that's gonna 39 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: cost her at least a few tenths of a second 40 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: in the second at thirty eight five, both still leads, 41 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: and if Kimmy gets gets inside at Jackson's time, she 42 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: will miss the games. This this is a there's this 43 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: quirky rule in speed skating that if you slip and fall, 44 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: you can be granted a re skate, but if you 45 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 1: slip and stay on your feet, that's just sort of 46 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: the breaks. Can you explain that for everybody, there's a 47 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: stumble in almost every race, and so if you offered 48 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: a reskate for every stumble, they would just be rerunning 49 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: every race forever. And so they set it up to 50 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: that you have to actually hit the ground, and she didn't. 51 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: She basically didn't mess up enough. If she had slipped 52 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 1: harder and fallen, she would have had a reskate and 53 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: it would have been fine. But because she managed to 54 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: stay on her feet, she's out of luck. Yeah, And 55 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: in her post race interview on NBC, Stephanie Aaron Jackson 56 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: said she knew that if she had gone down she 57 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: would have gotten a re skate, but she stayed on 58 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: her feet anyway, I would have thrown myself forward, and 59 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: so that was it for me. But why did she 60 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: do that? Why did she decide to try to stay 61 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: upright and keep going From a moral perspective, like she 62 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: felt like that's sort of a flop that you shouldn't 63 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: be encouraged to fail and have that through rewarded, making 64 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: it so that you have to fall to get a 65 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: re skate, Like it's kind of encouraging people to maybe 66 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: take the sit, you know, if they have a stumble, 67 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: kind of like mine. So you know, of course it 68 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: flashed in my head maybe I should have sat down, 69 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: you know, But but I think it's just a bad 70 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: thing to encourage that. So I think when it comes, 71 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: you should be trying your best all the time. And 72 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: trying her best all the time was staying on her 73 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: feet and trying to win. And that's commendable to a point. 74 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: But we are talking about going to the Olympics. She's 75 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: one of the best in the world. We all want 76 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: to see her in Beijing. So now this story goes 77 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: from being about a missed opportunity to a story that's 78 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: really kind of about friendship. Stephanie tell Us, who Brittaney 79 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: bow is and what role does she play here? So 80 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: Brittany Bow is another American speed skater. She's been one 81 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: of Aaron Jackson's idols for years, and you know, Aaron 82 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: Jackson's got pictures of herself as a little kid with 83 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: Brittney Bow when she came back from winning various events. 84 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: They've become very close. I've grown up with Brittany. I'm 85 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: knowner like almost my whole life, you know, growing up 86 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: looking up to her um in o'calla, and like I've 87 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: always known what an incredible person she is. Brittaney Bow, 88 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: she finished ahead of Aaron Jackson in and then she 89 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: also qualified in the thousand meters and which are really 90 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: more her specialties. She knows she's not a medal contender 91 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: in the five. The easiest way for Aaron to go 92 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: is for one of the teammates who finished ahead of 93 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: her to see their spot, and in both cases Britney 94 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: Vo's case, and also in Kimmy gets his case who 95 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: finished second. They had qualified in other events. But that's 96 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: still a huge ask. You know, these people earned a 97 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: trip to the Olympics, and you know it's not their 98 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: job to make up for the fact that she slipped, 99 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: but in the end, she felt like she wanted Aaron 100 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: Jackson to be there when they named the team. Aaron 101 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: has earned her right to be on this five team. 102 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: She's ranked number one in the world and no one's 103 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: more deserving than her to get an opportunity to bring 104 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: Team USA home a medal. And Uh, after that unfortunate slip, 105 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: I knew in my mind before that night was even over, 106 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: that if it had to come down to a decision 107 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: of mind, she she could have my place. Wow, that 108 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: is a really remarkable act of sportsmanship and friendship. Their friends, 109 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: and she felt like, this is what friends do. So 110 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: she dominates the World Cup season and in doing so, Stephanie, 111 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: she becomes the first black woman to stand atop the podium, 112 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: and Olympic fans will no doubt remember shawnny Davis, who 113 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,679 Speaker 1: won gold for the US in two thousand and six 114 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: and became the first black athlete to win an individual 115 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: gold at the Winter Olympics. But what does Aaron Jackson 116 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: think about being the first black woman to break through 117 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: in long track speed skating. Yeah, that's important to her. 118 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: She knows that there are not a lot of little 119 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: girls who look like her participating in this sport, and 120 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 1: she and her family are hoping that down the line 121 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: maybe the complexion of the sport might change. Being the 122 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,119 Speaker 1: first black woman to qualify for the long track team, 123 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't even something that I've realized until after the 124 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: fact when I saw the headlines about it. It would 125 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: be awesome if if it wasn't true, you know, like 126 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: if I wasn't the first. It would be nice if 127 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: there have been plenty of people before me, but you know, 128 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: there weren't. And since since I'm the first, I just 129 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: hope to, you know, like set a good path, you know, 130 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: and I hope that I can inspire more people to 131 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: get out there and try these winter sports. Before she 132 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: had qualified for the Olympics, Stephanie Aaron had only been 133 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: on speed skates for four months. She grew up inline 134 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: speed skating and also, and this is my favorite part, 135 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: she did roller derby. So take us through how she 136 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: goes from roller derby to speed skating. So she, as 137 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: I mentioned, grew up in Okalla and she was a 138 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: big inline speed skater as a kid. I started out 139 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: as just like what's called a rink rat, that's just 140 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: someone who hangs out of the skating rinks with their friends, 141 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: you know, just skating around, listening to music, eating pizza 142 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: in the snack bar. But then I was also the 143 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: kid who would occasionally get in trouble at those sessions 144 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: just for going too fast. Like many I think elite athletes, 145 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: she just sort of had a lot of energy as 146 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: a kid, and her parents were thrilled to find this 147 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: as a way to burn off some of that energy. 148 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: Aaron Jackson is showing off for Derby Skills a little 149 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: bit there, holding her off. She was really good at it. 150 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: As they approached the finish line, it's going to be Jackson. 151 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: And so as she hit sort of the top of 152 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: the sport, she started to realize what a lot of 153 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: people who have made the similar transition have realized, which 154 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: is inline speed skating is really fun, but you can't 155 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: go to the Olympics. Then it's like you're kind of 156 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: looking for something more, right. So a lot of the 157 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: inliners make that switch over to long track or short 158 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: track speed skating on ice because those have like the 159 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: pathway to the Olympic Games. Inline speed skating and ice 160 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: speed skating they seem like they would be really similar 161 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways they are, but the 162 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: way you generate power is very different. Very good inline 163 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: skaters will speed skate for a few days and come 164 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: off and just their legs are so sore because they're 165 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: using muscles that they didn't even really know they had 166 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: going into this new sport. I was like, I've been 167 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: a skater my whole life, and this is just another 168 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 1: form of skating. Shouldn't be too hard, right, But yeah, 169 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: I was kind of like in for a route awakening 170 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: when I switched over to the ice. She was on 171 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: a trip to the Netherlands and she got on the 172 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 1: ice basically just for fun, tried it, didn't really like it. 173 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: It was as cold as she thought it would be. 174 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: You know, she's a really really good inline speed skater, 175 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: and she it's not that much fun to be incredible 176 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 1: at something and then do something pretty similar and kind 177 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 1: of stink at it. And she was just kind of like, 178 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: all right, I tried that, but I'd like to go 179 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: home now. So she stops and then restarts at some point, right. Yeah, 180 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: So as a sport, ice speed skating keeps an eye 181 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: on really promising inline speed skaters because they understand that 182 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: this is a really good pipeline, and so they've been 183 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: kind of hitting her up for a while and trying 184 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: to get her to make the switch. Um, I got 185 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: an invitation from the talent recruiter um out here in 186 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: Salt Lake, and he's like, hey, like, have you thought 187 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: about ice skating a little more? Like you think you 188 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: want to give it a shot? And I said, okay, sure, 189 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: And she's out there for a while and she starts 190 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: to feel a little bit better, she starts to get 191 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: good at it, and something kind of clicks and she 192 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: suddenly feels like she understands how to do this. So 193 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: at that point, I had like four months of long 194 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: track training going into the Olympic trials. Her coach says, 195 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: let's send you to US Trials, just basically to get 196 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: her reps. He said, like, don't be delusional. This is 197 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: not You're not going to the Olympics. You're going to 198 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: a race. She didn't even tell her family because she 199 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: said she thought of it as a race where other 200 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: people have a chance to qualify for the Olympics, and 201 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: she is going to practice skating. She had plans during 202 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: the Olympics. She was actually supposed to be at roller 203 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: Derby World Championships in Manchester, England, and then shockingly she qualifies. 204 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: Jackson actually had to win the pair and guaranteeing a 205 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: spot on the US Olympics five team. The first black 206 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: woman to qualify for a U S Elemtic long track 207 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: speed skating spot history made here in Milwaukee tonight, and 208 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: it was very overwhelming. I would imagine it would be 209 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: overwhelming for her. It's a massive jump from doing inline 210 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: skating too, then getting on the ice to then going 211 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: to the Olympics in four months. She had to be 212 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: surprised and excited as well. Right, yeah, yeah, she was thrilled. 213 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: But her coach, I think had a really good handle 214 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: on it. He was the one who told her, you know, 215 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: don't be delusional before they went, and then even after 216 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: she qualified, he was basically like, congratulations, but you're still 217 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: not very good, so don't put pressure on yourself. You're 218 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: not going to go over there. You're not a metal contender. 219 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: Just use this as an experience. They had always been 220 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: planning for Beijing, and so he basically was like, Okay, 221 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: this will speed up your development a little bit. By 222 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: the next time you go to the Olympics, you'll have 223 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: some sense of what it's like, and so when does 224 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: she go from Aaron Jackson. You're going to use this 225 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: as a testing ground too, Oh, Aaron Jackson's a thing. 226 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: She knew that she had a lot of talent. That's 227 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: sort of obvious, right, because she had no technique at 228 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: that point, and she was able to qualify for the Olympics. 229 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: So think about how incredibly talented she must have been 230 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: and how fit she must have been to be able 231 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: to sort of muscle her way through this. And so 232 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: she always felt like, I can get to the top. 233 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: It's just a question of when I will do that 234 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: and how I will do that. And she tried to 235 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: be really patient with herself the first couple of years, 236 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: and then about two years ago she started to feel like, oh, 237 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: I'm good at this. I know how to do this now, 238 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: but there's just so much to work on. You know. 239 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: She's still so new. Her coach says, she's still in 240 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: the infancy of her time in the sport, and she's 241 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: just so good and she worked so hard that she's 242 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: able to sort of compensate for lack of experience. Stephanie. 243 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: As journalists, we love stories like this. There's just so 244 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: many elements where you just you marvel at it and 245 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: you say this can't be real. What an amazing tale, 246 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: including the fact, as you mentioned that she's from Florida, 247 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: which I wouldn't expect to be a hotbed of speed 248 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: skating activity, even though Brittany Bow and she are both there. 249 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: How is it that some of the best speed skaters 250 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: in the world are from a place that has no 251 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: ice or cold weather. It's that pipeline we were talking about, 252 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: that inline skating to ice speed skating pipeline. Going back 253 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: to my early days of inline skating, my coach Rene 254 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: Hilda Brand, She's like this world aroun coach who was 255 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: responsible for like multiple time world champions and even Olympians, 256 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: like my teammates Britney Bow Enjoy Mantilla, we all grew 257 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: up in the same city, on the same team with 258 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: the same coach, like we've known each other for years. 259 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: There are a ton of inline speed skaters there, and 260 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: the ones who are really good have the realization that 261 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 1: Aaron Jackson did, which is this is really fun, but 262 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: it would be really cool to go to the Olympics, 263 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: and I can't do that in this sport, but I 264 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: can do that in a sport that's fairly similar. So 265 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: now we have Aaron Jackson. She's established, she's a star. 266 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: She's been granted this golden ticket to go back to 267 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,839 Speaker 1: the Olympics, courtesy of her friend Brittany Bow. What are 268 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: her prospects looking like? Who's her biggest competition? In being honestly, 269 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: she might be her biggest competition. She's very, very good, 270 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: and speed skating in some ways can be a crapshoot. 271 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: It's not quite as much of one as short track, 272 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: where it's just if you stay upright you can win. 273 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: But things can happen like they did at the trials. 274 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: You know, that was a pretty important event, and it's 275 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: not like she choked. She just stumbled, and that can 276 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: happen to anybody. So speed skating is definitely a sport 277 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: where there's room for a little bit of chaos, I think. 278 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: But she's still the favorite obviously. Yes. I love watching 279 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: speed skating as well. I feel like it's like poetry, 280 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: you know, watching the way people move across the ice, 281 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: and I really hope to look extra poetic suit crossing 282 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: our fingers for her. She's a very easy person to 283 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: root for. Stephanie Epstein, this was a gold medal interview. 284 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: Thank you for this, Thanks so much. Stephanie Epstein's cover story, 285 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: Aaron Jackson Is Ready to Make a Statement on Ice, 286 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: is available now on si dot com. We'll link to 287 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: it in our show notes. After a break speak with 288 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: Ben Rhodes about the human rights abuses and diplomatic skirmishes 289 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: swirling around the Beijing Olympic Games. The Biden administration will 290 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: not send any diplomatic or official representation to the Beijing 291 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: Winter Olympics and Paralympic Games, given the pr scenes ongoing 292 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: genocide and crimes against humanity in jin Jong, and other 293 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: human rights abuses. The athletes on Team USA have our 294 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: full support. We will be behind them on as we 295 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: cheer them on from home. We will not be contributing 296 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: to the fanfare of the games. There's never any shortage 297 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: of pomp and pageantry when it comes to the Olympics, 298 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: or controversy for that matter. As Winter Games begin in 299 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: Beijing this week, we wanted to speak with an expert 300 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: who could explain the myriad issues that have already dogged 301 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: these particular games, from human rights abuses by the Chinese 302 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: government to its suppression of freedom of speech and pro 303 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: democracy efforts in the region. Ben Rhodes is a former 304 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: Deputy National Security Advisor for President Obama and the author 305 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: of two excellent books, The World As It Is and 306 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: After the Fall, and you can hear him as one 307 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: of the hosts on Pod Save the World. Ben joins 308 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: me to discuss an Olympics that's shaping up to be 309 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: about a lot more than just sports. Ben Rhodes, Welcome 310 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: to Sports Illustrated Weekly. Exciting to be here like a 311 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: non political space talking about politics. Still politics, Yeah, well, 312 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: you're a sports fan in among your many areas of 313 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: expertise is international politics and global affairs, so you're perfect 314 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: for this topic. The Winter Olympics in Beijing or upon us, Ben, 315 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: because of COVID, we'll see a similar bubble set up 316 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: in terms of the logistics to what we saw at 317 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: the Summer Games in Tokyo. But what will be different 318 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: in Beijing, as you've discussed on pods Save the World 319 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: with Tommy v Tour, is the diplomatic boycott and a 320 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: whole host of countries, including the US and Australian Britain 321 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: in Canada, have decided not to send political emissaries. So 322 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: Ben walk our listeners through Why that is, well, the 323 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: main reason is that over the last few years, the 324 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party has detained estimates are a million plus 325 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: Weakers that's a ethnic and religious minority in Western China, 326 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: and essentially a network of concentration camps in an effort 327 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: to kind of stamp out, in the Chinese government's telling, extremism, 328 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: but really feels like an effort to wipe out Weaker culture, 329 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: essentially kind of a cultural genocide. And there are reports 330 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: that not only is there kind of forced labor and 331 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: obviously detention, but there have been other kinds of atrocities committed, 332 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: people kept in just horrific conditions. And so that's the 333 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: precipitating human rights issue that has been cited by the 334 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: US and other Western governments in this boycott. The reality 335 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: is there's also just kind of a building sense in 336 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: the United States and some other countries that for two 337 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,959 Speaker 1: long we've essentially tolerated Chinese human rights abuses in our relationship, 338 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: and and you're seeing a different response today than you did, 339 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: say in two thousand and eight when Beijing hosted the 340 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: Summer Olympics. So this is basically just US in other 341 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: countries the ones that we listed, not sending people of 342 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: political renown and their individual governments. That's right. I mean, 343 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: I'm old enough to remember were at least in a 344 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: D four when the Soviets boycotted our Olympics in l a. 345 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: But in n there's a full boycott. No US athletic 346 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: participation in the Moscow Games. This is much more limited. 347 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: It just usually there would be senior officials who would 348 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: go to the games. President Bush actually went in two 349 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: thousand and eight to the Beijing Games. I actually, back 350 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: in my old life, was on the delegation to the 351 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: closing ceremonies in the London Games in twelve from the 352 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: U s government, which was very fun, less problematic. Yeah, 353 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: I got to see the gold medal basketball game. But 354 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: so it just basically means that there will be no 355 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: official participation from the US government, which is something that 356 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: sends a message to make sure that this will be 357 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: part of the storyline of the Olympics, and it denies 358 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: China the kind of capacity to flux in front of 359 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: the world in quite the same way that that. Again, 360 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: they didn't do that as an eight. Yeah, it is 361 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: something although the French being the French dismissed it as 362 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: pointless um but the weaker situation isn't new. All sorts 363 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 1: of activists have spoken out for years. Back in two 364 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: thousand eight, Mia Pharaoh for one letter protest against the 365 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: Summer Games in Beijing, where she was carry an Olympic 366 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 1: torch and wearing a shirt that said genocide Olympics. But 367 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: the Games are back in Beijing, ben So is there 368 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: any evidence that the Chinese care about a diplomatic boycott 369 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: or that anything will change on the human right front? 370 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: Or are the French right here that this is sort 371 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: of an ineffectual approach to split the difference here there right, 372 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: And they're wrong. They're right in the sense that I 373 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: don't think this will change anything about the Chinese government's 374 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 1: policies towards the weakers or other human rights concerns. On 375 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: the other hand, we're talking about this, and I think 376 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: that the reality of the diplomatic boycott is that there's 377 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: just gonna be more ten to not an issue that 378 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: maybe not a lot of people in the United States 379 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,199 Speaker 1: around the world, we're following that closely, which is in 380 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: particularly the weaker issue. There are there are other issues 381 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: to the Chinese government is essentially kind of wiped out 382 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: Hong Kong's relative autonomy and civil liberties. The two thousand 383 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: eight issue was the Tibetan people who've seen essentially their 384 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: culture squeezed almost to the point of no return by 385 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: the Chinese government. So you know, it's not going to 386 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: change things immediately, but it is going to elevate the 387 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: profile of issues that the Chinese government would certainly not 388 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: like to be the focal point of these games. Yeah, 389 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: and as you said, we're talking about it, and that's 390 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: something that I wanted to discuss with you. I wonder 391 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: how much people are clued into these issues here in 392 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 1: the States and how much they care, because I'm sure 393 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: that you saw this recently, one of the limited partners 394 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: for the Golden State Warriors got in trouble on a 395 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,959 Speaker 1: podcast for saying he didn't care. This is what cha, 396 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: Poli Patia had to say. Nobody cares about what's happening 397 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: to the weakers. Okay, you you bring it up because 398 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: you really care, and I think what care? The rest 399 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: of us don't care. I'm just telling you caring hard 400 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: don't care. I'm telling you a very hard, ugly truth. Okay, 401 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: of all the things that I care about. Yes, it 402 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: is below my line. Okay, of all the things that 403 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: I care about, it is below my line. Been big 404 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: yikes on that. The Warriors quickly denounced those comments and 405 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: wrote them off as a small limited partner, and Pollyopatia 406 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: tweeted an apology. But then, what did you make of 407 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: those remarks? And is it in any way representative of 408 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,719 Speaker 1: a broader section of Americans just being sort of like 409 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: dis interested in this? Yeah, you know, I saw that 410 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: at the time, and I first kind of wondered, like, 411 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: what is above his line? Because genocidal activities not. But 412 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: to be fair, I mean, the reality is that the 413 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: United States, and when I did say the United States, 414 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: I mean our entertainment sector, our sports sector, certainly, our 415 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: corporate sector, private equity has kind of voted with their 416 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: actions in a way over many years in that they 417 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: haven't cared. You know it. John is a huge market 418 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of money to be made there. 419 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: And you see Hollywood movies censoring content that the Chinese 420 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: government doesn't like because they want to be on screens there. 421 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: You see American businesses plowing investment in China, some of 422 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: which is used for the kind of surveillance technology that's 423 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: used to perpetrate the kind of mass surveillance of weakers 424 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 1: that led to the detention. I could go on. So, 425 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: you know, he's kind of identifying the reality that we 426 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: haven't cared enough. And I think one thing that's important 427 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: John to understand is part of the problem, I think 428 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: is that Americans like, well, it's the Chinese communist part. 429 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: It's always been this repressive kind of communist place, and 430 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: that's true to a point. But what I think people 431 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: don't fully appreciate is in the last several years, particularly 432 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: since the current President of China, Ji Jumping, took power, 433 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: in the degree of repression inside of China has kind 434 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: of gone up exponentially, and that's most manifested in the 435 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: weaker issue in jing Jang Province in Western China, but 436 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: again you see it in the treatment of dissidence within China, 437 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: the kind of visceration of any space for people to 438 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: have any independent points of view in Hong Kong and 439 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: on and on. So I think Americans may not fully 440 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: appreciate that this isn't the old repressive Chinese Communist party. 441 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: This is kind of a new flavor that is a 442 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: lot more belligerent and assertive. Yeah, and I'm glad you 443 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 1: brought up the suppression of pro democracy protests in Hong Kong. Time. 444 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: Since the pandemic hit, time has sort of like stopped 445 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: having any meaning for me. But back before, Darryl Moray 446 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: was the general manager from my belove seventy six years. 447 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: He was the general manager for the Rockets, and the 448 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: NBA does a ton of stuff in China. It's the 449 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: biggest international market for the NBA, and during the preseason 450 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: that year, he tweeted in support of the pro democracy 451 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: protesters and China lost its mind like more. He basically 452 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: had to go underground for a while. And you helped 453 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: me with that for a story I wrote for my 454 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: former employers. But we've seen this before. I mean, the Olympics, 455 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: the NBA, basically everybody but the w t A, which 456 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: I want to get into. All these sports want to 457 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 1: court the Chinese market. But in doing so, are they 458 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: complicit or like at least tacitly enabling Chinese on some 459 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: of these anti democratic efforts? Yeah, in a way, I 460 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: mean what happened to Darryl, I mean I talked to 461 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: at the time is indicative of many things that go 462 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 1: far beyond just the n b A in the sense 463 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: that it was a fairly innocuous tweet. It was like 464 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: Stanford Freedom support Hong Kong didn't even criticize what do 465 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: you get excited about their exactly, didn't even criticize the 466 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: Chinese government, right And and actually, by the way, Twitter 467 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: is not in mainland China, so for this to be 468 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: a story there, they had to choose to elevate it. 469 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: The Chinese government did, and all their propagand organs and 470 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: kind of stir up national sentiment, which is a sign 471 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: that they wanted to send a message not just in 472 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: the NBA but to anybody doing business here that hey, 473 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: if you're doing business here, you've got to play completely 474 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: by rules, and that means shut up about anything that's 475 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: inside what we think is our internal affairs, right, you know, 476 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: the Top Gun sequels coming out like this is how 477 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: particularly they get John. In the first Top Gun Tom 478 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: Cruises flight jacket had many flags on it, including a 479 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: Taiwanese flag. The Chinese Communist Party believes that Taiwan is 480 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: a part of China, and this time around, there's no 481 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: Taiwanese flag on that jacket. And you know that's the 482 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: the level that they get into this, and what they 483 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: really are doing is they're kind of weaponizing how lucrative 484 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: their markets are to everybody, not just sports leagues, but 485 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: including sports leagues, to send this message again that like, 486 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: we will broach no criticism of our human rights record, 487 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: our policies. If you want a piece of the pie 488 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: in terms of the Chinese market or Chinese investment, you 489 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: better just shut up. And frankly, most American businesses to 490 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: date have played by those rules. But that's getting more 491 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: and more difficult as China gets more and more assertive, 492 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: and frankly, as opinion, including political opinion in this country, 493 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: is increasingly alarmed about that. Yeah, I mean you mentioned 494 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: top Gun John Cena. I'm a huge Fast and Furious 495 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: franchise guy. John Cena made a faux pat and had 496 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: to go back can apologize after the latest Fast and 497 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: Furious movie came out. So that happens regularly. And you 498 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: also mentioned, you know, some of these businesses that haven't 499 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: really backed out. All of this stuff is swirling around. 500 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: NBC paid billions for its current Olympics deal. It's still 501 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: going to broadcast the games, and then hardly any sponsors 502 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: or advertisers have pulled out Intel, the semiconductor company China 503 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: its market. They're still in Coca Cola, Airbnb, Proctor and Gamble, Visa, Bridgetone. 504 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: I could go on, they're all still in. And you know, 505 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: sometimes in America we love the Cold War anti communist angle, 506 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: but isn't this capitalism like keeping quiet to profit off 507 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 1: China in the games? That's exactly right. I mean, in 508 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: the Cold War we kind of linked capitalism and freedom. 509 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: You we were for the open societies and the other 510 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: guys were for dictatorship and communism. Kind Of part of 511 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: what's happened is that there's been a wedge driven between 512 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: freedom and capitalism in the sense that like, to be 513 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: capitalists in China means that you have to shut up 514 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: about freedom, right, And you know, we see this over 515 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: and over and over again, and like we just have 516 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: to consider the reality that we have as an entire society, 517 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: as a government, down to individual actors and athletes, have 518 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: placed profit over whatever concerns we have about human rights. 519 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: And the Chinese government can smell that from mile away, 520 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: and what they've done recently is just kind of weaponized 521 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: that morelaw. I'll give you. Another example Nomad Land, which 522 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: won the Academy Award directed by a Chinese born director 523 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: Chloe's Out. They basically whitewashed the news of her winning 524 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: the Academy Award in China. The Chinese government has scrubbed 525 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: the internet here of any mention of Chloe Jaw's OSCAR win, 526 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: her acceptance speech, even her reference to a classical Chinese 527 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: text that all people at birth are inherently good. Online 528 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: searches of the Beijing born director's wind show no results. 529 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: News articles, hashtags and videos have been taken down. She 530 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: made a fairly innocuous again criticism of the Chinese government 531 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: where she basically just said in an interview a couple 532 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 1: of years ago or I don't know how long ago, 533 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,479 Speaker 1: but it wasn't like right before the Academy Awards. She 534 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: said that, you know, part of them she was operating 535 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: outside China. Is is easier to express a point of 536 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: view through your art. Again, not even like that critical. 537 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: I mean, so they're using their capacity to control information 538 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: and to control access to their market again to kind 539 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: of hermetically seal out any criticism. And this Olympics is 540 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: gonna be a test of that. I'll I'll say, you know, look, 541 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: I'm an MSNBC contributor, so I'm talking about one of 542 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: my employers here. But the reality is, not only is 543 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: NBC had these games, Universal Studios also has very lucrative 544 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: theme parks in China, right, So it's you know, you're 545 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: wrapped around and actual You're like, well, you know, if 546 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: we criticize this on air, does that mean that they're 547 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: going to shut down our theme parks? Again, this is 548 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: just my I don't know that that's the case. I'm 549 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: just guessing. So the point is across the board here, 550 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: every business it's operating in China has this kind of 551 00:28:54,320 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: difficult choice to make. So the ripple effects there are 552 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: really interesting to me, especially because, as you've mentioned and 553 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: as everybody knows, the freedom of speech is such a 554 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: huge issue going into these games. And we saw previously 555 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: Chinese tennis star Peng Shui accused of top Chinese government 556 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: official of sexual assault. Then all of a sudden, she 557 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: disappears in the w t A to its credit, rose 558 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: to her defense. But I'm curious what you think will 559 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: happen if there are similar political protests or people speaking 560 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: out at these games that we've seen it in the 561 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: past at the Games, most notably Tommy Smith and John Carlos, 562 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,479 Speaker 1: who famously raised their fists in protests at the nine 563 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: Summer Olympics in Mexico City. But the IOC has an 564 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: official policy raising a fister kneeling before an event is okay, 565 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: but during the metal ceremonies is not allowed. What do 566 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: you think will happen at these games? Do you think 567 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: we'll see athletes violate that in protests while anthems are 568 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: being played in medals are being hand out, And if so, 569 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: how do you think the Chinese will respond to it. 570 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: It's a great question, and frankly it's something to really 571 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: watch for in these games. You know, Olympic athletes have 572 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: tended by and large to be not that political, in 573 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: part because by and large most of them are not 574 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: that wealthy, and frankly them taking the potential hit of 575 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: losing endorsements could be painful. If you want to see 576 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: a painful interview, look at the Burton CEO. Burton Snowboards 577 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: recently did an interview in which he was asked about 578 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: this stuff and kind of wasn't that far off what 579 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: what we heard earlier in the clip. You know, it's 580 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: kind of like, well, I don't know if anything wrong 581 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: is going on in shanxian Um, So if you want 582 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: to Burton endorsement, and Burton has a huge market there, 583 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,239 Speaker 1: maybe you don't want to do this. I think that 584 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: what would happen if somebody protested though, and I think 585 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: somebody probably will. Usually there's an Ennis Cantor and his 586 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: freedom type person who's willing to raise their voice. First 587 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: of all, nobody in China will see that, And that's 588 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: an important thing to understand, is that they have such 589 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: control over social media and obviously official broadcast media that 590 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: it would essentially be a protest viewed maybe by the 591 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: people who are physically in the venue, but then to 592 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: the wider world. It won't really reach a large audience 593 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: in China. That was the case with Peng Shui right 594 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: when she posted her message about sexual assault from a 595 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: very senior Chinese Communist Party official. That message disappeared almost instantaneously, 596 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: and selling it was a global news story was not 597 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: at all a new story inside of China. And would 598 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: be interesting though, is it will put the IOC in 599 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: a very interesting position. Do they completely sell out any 600 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: sense of principle by in some fashion sanctioning an athlete 601 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: on behalf of the Chinese Communist Party or not. So 602 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: that may be a good issue to force because the 603 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: IOC is basically turned into a pretty corrupt organization that 604 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: whether you look at these games, you look at the 605 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: kind of whiff of corruption around the Sochi Olympics in Russia, 606 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, it does feel like it's time to shine 607 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: a light in their direction. And that may be the 608 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: thing that a protest accomplishes, is just shining a light 609 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: on whether or not the IOC sanctions the athlete or not. Yeah, 610 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: and they deserve that scrutiny, as you said, I mean, 611 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: they've been seen as a pretty corrupt governing body for 612 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: a while now. But I did want to talk to 613 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: you as well about sort of the attendant hypocrisy that 614 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: the journalist. The freedom of speech issue is huge for 615 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: me as a human being, the human rights violations are 616 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: huge for me, but as an American, like we're hardly 617 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: without sin when it comes to how we treat people 618 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: of color, the oun housed population, people living in poverty, 619 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: everything is relative, certainly, but as Americans, as we're talking 620 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: about all these things, are we casting stones here while 621 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: living in a glass house. It's a really good question. 622 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: It's when I wrestled with a lot. I'm someone who's 623 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: tried to be critical of our own democracy and society. 624 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: I think it is important, number one, to recognize that 625 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: even if you take the most kind of maximalist critique 626 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: of social justice, racial justice, and other inequities in American society, 627 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: the scale of what you know is taking place in 628 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: China with the weakers or I always spend a lot 629 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: of time in Hong Kong, wrote about my last book, 630 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: these are people that just lost all their freedom. I 631 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: mean literally, like people thrown in prison if they say anything, 632 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: post ating on social media, even have a conversation with 633 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: somebody that is critical of the arpment. So this is 634 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: a difference between a totalitarian system in China and a 635 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: deeply flawed at times democracy here in the United States. 636 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: And she's the other thing I'd say about this, Yeah, 637 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: we're in a glass house to some extent, and the 638 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: Chinese government, this is the card they played constantly. It's 639 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: just what about us them? So they'll just say, well, actually, 640 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: the big crime is how black people are treat the 641 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: United States, etcetera. I would say in response, look, we 642 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: talk about that all the time. Here you want to 643 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: talk about the NBA or any professional sports league in 644 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: this country has a huge culture of protest, has huge 645 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: commentary on social justice issues, and so why not have 646 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: the same kind of conversation about what's happening in China. 647 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: So actually, like, even if you are a critic of 648 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: aspects of American society, like, there's no reason that you 649 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: should have a double standard in which you're allowed to 650 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,959 Speaker 1: criticize injustice in this country not in other places. And 651 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: so to me, this is one instance where you may 652 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: be in something of a glass house, but there's no 653 00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: reason not to point out that the other guy's house. 654 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: There's a lot of problems as well, and including problems 655 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: to go far beyond even the worst accesses that we 656 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: see here in this country. Yeah, So, I mean it's 657 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: there's just so much to this as we go into 658 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: these games, ben at like so many factors and so 659 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,280 Speaker 1: many things that are happening in China that we've discussed. 660 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: And so I struggle with it a little bit as 661 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: a viewer from a consumer standpoint, because I like the Olympics, 662 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 1: Like I'll stay up and watch curling or the biathlon, 663 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: which is just like people cross country skiing with rifles 664 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,240 Speaker 1: and then and then they stopped to shoot it stuff, 665 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: which that shouldn't be a thing, Ben, but it's a thing, 666 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: and I watch, so I'm touring. Like Dan Lebotard recently 667 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: said on his show that he's not going to watch 668 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: because of the lack of free speech for athletes and 669 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: citizens in China, which is a commendable stance to take. 670 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: But there's gonna be guys on ski shooting at stuff 671 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: that I want to watch. So what should we do here? 672 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: Are you gonna watch? Yeah? You know, I think i'll watch. 673 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: It is an interesting kind of individual moral question. But 674 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: the reality is, and this is why I didn't necessarily 675 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: think a full boycott may its sense. The athletes are 676 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: not the guilty parties here, you know, including the Chinese athletes. 677 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: And in fact, part of what's supposed to be nice 678 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: about the Olympics is it's one of the only venues 679 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: in the world where people from literally everywhere are kind 680 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,280 Speaker 1: of competing, associating with each other just as human beings. 681 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: And so to me, to kind of punish an athlete 682 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 1: by not watching something that they've prepared, because the other 683 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: thing I love about the Olympics, right is how long 684 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: has that guy prepared to cross country ski and then 685 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: shoot something, or how long has that figure skater worked 686 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: on her routine? You know, And to me, like not 687 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: watching them doesn't feel like it's going to register a 688 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: protests with the Chinese government. Yeah, maybe you're adding some 689 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,839 Speaker 1: clicks to peacock or something, but again I don't know 690 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: that that's the difference to me using this to have 691 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 1: a conversation, I think it is progress. So in two 692 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, they have the Olympics in Beijing, this 693 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,760 Speaker 1: very little discussion of the US. They had this insane 694 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 1: opening ceremony that's been hundreds of millions of dollars on 695 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 1: in front of all these world leaders, including George Bush, 696 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: and it was kind of China again flexing on the 697 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: world stage. This time around. I think that there's gonna 698 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: be a lot of conversation swirling around this Olympics, a 699 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: lot of commentary about things that the Chinese Communist Party 700 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: would rather people weren't talking about, and hopefully coming out 701 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: of this each progressively, you know, it gets harder and 702 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: harder for sponsors to be in China, gets harder and 703 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,399 Speaker 1: harder for I mean if you look at the NBA, 704 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 1: for instance, and its cantor has been popping off for 705 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: months now human rights in China, and and part because 706 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: I know I don't think that the NBA games are 707 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: on CCTV, the Chinese state broadcaster, there's not really any 708 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: discussion of it. And so there's there's something of a 709 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: normalization of a degree of dialogue and criticism about this 710 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: happening that is healthy, and that needs to kind of 711 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: bleed into other sectors, like we've been talking about where 712 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: American investment is going there, whether the employees of companies 713 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: are able to be outspoken about human rights abuses, whether 714 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: the entertainment industry in this country continues to totally self 715 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: censor around issues in China. I think that will probably 716 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: crack at some point because of these types of conversations. 717 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: So it's gonna feel a bit creepy to watch the 718 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,240 Speaker 1: kind of hyper choreograph nationalism that will probably be on display. 719 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I won't watch. I won't watch 720 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: the opening ceremonies or the closing ceremonies. That's fine. I 721 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: never watched those anyway, now that's true. I mean sometimes 722 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: they're good, but the one I went to in London 723 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 1: was like a classic rock concert. Was kind of awesome. 724 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,720 Speaker 1: Actually it was all like the British Invasion artists. But 725 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: but anyway, I think that, um, everybody can make that decision, 726 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: but I'll probably watch. I think the point you make 727 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 1: about having a conversation is a good one, and also 728 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: what you said about it not being the fault of 729 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: the athletes, including the Chinese athletes, is a good one 730 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: and it's gonna make me feel a lot better when 731 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: I'm up at two am watching speed skating. Go read 732 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: his books The World As it Is and After the Fall, 733 00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,800 Speaker 1: and listen to him each week on Pots Save the World. 734 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 1: Ben Rhodes, thank you for not boycotting Sports Illustrated Weekly. 735 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 1: Thanks great to be after the break. Michael Vick tells 736 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: us about the first time he was in Sports Illustrated. 737 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: He's a former All Pro quarterback now an analysts for 738 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: Fox NFL Kickoff. We are pleased to be joined on 739 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated Weekly by Michael Vick. Michael, thanks for doing this. 740 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no problem. Michael Vick, tell me about the 741 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: first time you're in Sports Illustrated. Yeah, the first time 742 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: I was on Sports Illustrated on the front cover and 743 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: A and A strong feature was I think my going 744 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: to my sophomore year in college, and I like, he 745 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: had the Hasman posed and there was a cool shot. 746 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: I don't really didn't like you because I thought it 747 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: was just too premature to be talking has Main and 748 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: I felt like I didn't arrive yet. I had a 749 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: good year prior, finished strong in the national championship, and 750 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: we had an amazing sea in a season to remember. 751 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 1: But I didn't think I was really has Been worthy 752 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: as a freshman, even though I went to the hasmin. 753 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: And then I think in the feature of my teammates 754 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: was they was holding me up and I had that 755 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: pose and I was like, man, I gotta live up 756 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: to this now. So I felt depression. I love what 757 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: was going on, but I felt depression. Well, I mean 758 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: the hype around you back then how to be massive? Right, 759 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: So you're a college kid, You're walking around campus, You're like, 760 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: you said, you had a good season, but everybody was 761 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 1: talking about you. Then all of a sudden, you're on 762 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: the cover of Sports Illustrated. What was that pressure like 763 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: for a college because I had to be a lot 764 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: to deal with. Yeah, I mean when those things started 765 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: to happen, which is what you want, which is what 766 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 1: you envision, and those are the things that you appreciate 767 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: years later. You know. I just wanted to focus on football, 768 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,800 Speaker 1: and I wanted my teammates to view me as a leader, 769 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,720 Speaker 1: so I included them in the whole feature. I wanted 770 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 1: it to beat us. It wasn't about me. It was 771 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: weak and uh, it was a lot of pressure because 772 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: I knew I couldn't win those games without them, and 773 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 1: I knew they couldn't have success without me. So you know, 774 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: it was like, man, doing this, we gotta definitely repeat. 775 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 1: And I certainly got to end up on this cover 776 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 1: again next year, or you know, they're gonna be labeling 777 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: me a bus So I felt the pressure from it, 778 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: but I liked it. Yeah, that has been pressure was 779 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: real though, I won't lie about it. That you get 780 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: caught up in trying to win it and trying to 781 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: do everything right and the kind of take away from 782 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 1: your game. But it's a it's a natural emotion. It 783 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: sounds like, I mean, when you were saying you're trying 784 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: to live up to it, that in addition to the pressure, 785 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: you're sort of using that as motivation too. Yeah, no doubt, 786 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: and a lot of guys who came after me and 787 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: came before me went through that same pressure. I was 788 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: doing great. I just had an injury versus the University 789 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: of Pittsburgh, and I think that kind of knocked me 790 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 1: out the race. But you know, you look at the 791 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: guys who wanted Lamar and Derrick Henry and you know, 792 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: all those guys you know, over the last couple of years. 793 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: I mean, whoever wanted had that type of pressure had 794 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 1: to deal with it. And that's why when you up 795 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: to that next level, that pressure is not as intense, 796 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: you know, immense as it was when you was in 797 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: college because you kind of went through that that has 798 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 1: been pressure, which is a different type of pressure. So 799 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: you got the Heisman thing going on, your your own 800 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: sports illustrator. Everybody's paying attention to you. Everybody's talking about 801 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: you and what it's gonna be like when Michael Vick 802 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: goes to the league. When you're dealing with that, like, 803 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: what's it like with your friends and family, do you 804 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 1: feel like your life is changing? You definitely feel like 805 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: the life was changing, and you know monetary wise that 806 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,399 Speaker 1: things are gonna change dramatically to a drastically, I should say, um, so, 807 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, you kind of get caught up in it. 808 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: But for me, it was all about football. It was 809 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: never really about the money. The money just came. It 810 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: became about dominating. It became more about being the best 811 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: in my position respectively amongst all my peers. And you know, 812 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: whether college or pro, I'm at the elite of the elite, 813 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: and that's where it's still with me, I would imagine, 814 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: I mean in at this into having pressure though, Like 815 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,240 Speaker 1: you have to be to be an athlete of your caliber, 816 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: you have to be confident, right, you have to believe 817 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: in yourself. You have to know that you can do 818 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: these things. So was there a portion of Michael Vick 819 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: back then college can We'll go? Okay? I wanted to 820 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: be about my teammates and I want us to have 821 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: a good season. And I do feel a pressure, But 822 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,280 Speaker 1: I'm still Michael Vick. Yeah I'm a big deal though sure, 823 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 1: Like I knew that, Like it wasn't nothing to go 824 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: you know in digit hall on campus or go somewhere 825 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: where they were serving the best of food to eat free. Yeah, yeah, 826 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 1: like I get it. I knew what was going on. 827 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,440 Speaker 1: Like I felt the energy, and it was amazing. It 828 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: was like, I work hard for this, and this is 829 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,799 Speaker 1: what I want and hopefully this is the beginning of 830 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,920 Speaker 1: something that's gonna be great and everlasting and you know, 831 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: have durability and you know for the duration of my 832 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 1: career what it was gonna be at the time, So 833 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: I embraced it, man, and everybody else did too. And 834 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 1: my teammates they knew too. They was happy for me. 835 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: They you're gonna be a first round picker, the bottomore Ravens. 836 00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: I read. Just want to sit there and take you 837 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 1: on this first round, you know, top five, waking up like, 838 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: knock it off. Man, we got practice today. Let's go 839 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 1: be the best that we can be in practice, because 840 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: if we don't practice well, we don't obtain none of that. 841 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 1: So I was conscious about the road that needed to 842 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 1: be traveled. I mean, look, I went to school, and 843 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 1: you think about, like what it would be like to 844 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: be the big man on campus. You were the actual 845 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,839 Speaker 1: big man on campus. That had to be like a 846 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,879 Speaker 1: little bit trippy, right, Yeah. Yeah, I was the big 847 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,200 Speaker 1: man on campus, and of course everybody knew me. My 848 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,759 Speaker 1: house was the spot everybody came through, everybody came to say, 849 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: what's something. My door was always unlock. My teammates can 850 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: always come in, and regardless of who you were, we 851 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 1: had a great time. We took care of one another 852 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: and then we had a good time and we've had 853 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 1: and we had good energy and a lot of those 854 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:52,720 Speaker 1: guys almost those guys I'm still close with to this day, 855 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 1: like some of my best friends in life. And uh, 856 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,320 Speaker 1: you know, of course we all went on different paths, 857 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: but it feels good to be old and still be 858 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 1: connected again. You're you're on Sports Illustrated. All these things 859 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,719 Speaker 1: are happening, people are talking about, Like you said, you know, hey, 860 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 1: I hear the Baltimore Ravens might take you. You know, 861 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: you're about to jump to the league. But what does 862 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: that feel like when you're saying yourself right, you know, 863 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: as a kid, I probably I would imagine you're thinking 864 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,839 Speaker 1: about playing, but now you know you're going. Yeah, Well, 865 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: when it was time to go, I really wasn't ready. 866 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: I mean I was just getting settled into the college life. 867 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,879 Speaker 1: You're the man on campus and you you work hard 868 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: for that. It's like two years and then it's time 869 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 1: to go. It's like I tried to build all this 870 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 1: for reasons, so I can sit on the throne for 871 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,000 Speaker 1: a little bit. And uh, the game was just starting 872 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 1: to become too easy. In college. I felt like I 873 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 1: mastered it mentally and I knew defenses, and I knew 874 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,359 Speaker 1: it wasn't the defense that I was seeing college that 875 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,600 Speaker 1: confused me. After a while in my offensive coordinated Ricky 876 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: Bussell have taught me well, and I felt like it 877 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: was time to move on to the next level. I 878 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 1: just know it'll be more complex, so I just had 879 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,640 Speaker 1: to get ready for that. But when it was time 880 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,279 Speaker 1: to leave, I wasn't ready to leave. It's honestly, my mom, 881 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,480 Speaker 1: my high school coach, and coach bingwa to convince to be, like, 882 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,480 Speaker 1: you know, the son, is really time for you to 883 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 1: take that next step, and it's nothing left to accomplish, 884 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,080 Speaker 1: and you got a family that that's really depending on 885 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: you and living in poverty. So Coach bing Ma proudly 886 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: told me, son, this is what you came here for. 887 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 1: So we both pride in that process. But it was 888 00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,200 Speaker 1: it was all good. Turned out to be a good decision. 889 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: You said you weren't ready when you went. A couple 890 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,359 Speaker 1: of years ago. You and I were talking back when 891 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson was just blowing up, and you said it 892 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,600 Speaker 1: reminded you of you when you were just like crazy 893 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,880 Speaker 1: on the field and doing whatever you wanted to do 894 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 1: you could do. So when you get to the league, 895 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,239 Speaker 1: when did you finally feel comfortable? Do you remember a 896 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,799 Speaker 1: moment when you said, oh, yeah, I got this. I 897 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,799 Speaker 1: think it was the second to the last game my 898 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,400 Speaker 1: rookie spot played early played against Chicago. I played the 899 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,319 Speaker 1: game against I think Dallas, and I end up in 900 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 1: a rotation with Doug Johnson, Dan Reeves. I think really 901 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,759 Speaker 1: felt like I wasn't ready at the time, so the 902 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 1: game plan was very simple for me. And then at 903 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,399 Speaker 1: the end of the year he kind of opened it up. 904 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: Chris Handler went down and he called the plays for 905 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,560 Speaker 1: me that he the same way he called him for Chris, 906 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:04,560 Speaker 1: and I got a chance to go and versus the 907 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,239 Speaker 1: Dolphins when they had sayl and Taylor the defensive end, 908 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: Zack Thomas on that defense, I mean, they had Patrick 909 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: certain and Blench of guys, superstar guys. And I went 910 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:17,400 Speaker 1: out there and I had a decent game. And then 911 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,880 Speaker 1: next week we were to play the St. Louis Rams, 912 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,399 Speaker 1: the greatest show on turf at the time, and our 913 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 1: last game of the season Week sixteen, and we didn't 914 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: beat him, but we played well. So I think that 915 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,680 Speaker 1: gave coach the confidence in me going into the two 916 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,399 Speaker 1: thousand two seasons and I could stop. But after those 917 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,799 Speaker 1: two games, and when I went into that game in 918 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,959 Speaker 1: Week fifteen versus the Dolphins, I knew I was ready 919 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:44,879 Speaker 1: dominated St. Louis and then was the starter the next 920 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,800 Speaker 1: year and then off you go. You got real confident, 921 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 1: real fast. It's confident on camera as well. Catch him 922 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,759 Speaker 1: on Fox NFL kick Off. Michael Vack. Thank you for 923 00:46:53,760 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: doing this, man, Thank you man anytime. It's Sports Illustrated 924 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,720 Speaker 1: Weekly as a production of Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. 925 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I 926 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,839 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, 927 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,839 Speaker 1: And for more of Sports Illustrated It's best stories and podcasts, 928 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,800 Speaker 1: visit SI dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly 929 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 1: was produced by Alex Kappelman and Isaac Lee, who is 930 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,880 Speaker 1: also our sound engineer. Our senior producer is Dan Bloom. 931 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Scott Brody and me John Gonzalez. 932 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,200 Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Nolan Schneider, thanks for listening, 933 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,839 Speaker 1: and if you stuck around this long, we leave you 934 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,719 Speaker 1: with this from Aaron Jackson. I've just never really been 935 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,560 Speaker 1: drawn to running, and I feel like maybe I just 936 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,239 Speaker 1: wasn't running fast enough. You know, Um, I just don't 937 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,320 Speaker 1: get that same speed from anything but but speed skating. 938 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,359 Speaker 1: But then I guess if you go, if you take 939 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,239 Speaker 1: it a little further, going too fast kind of scares me. 940 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,400 Speaker 1: So I feel like speed skating is like that perfect 941 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: speed h