WEBVTT - Selects: Body Language!

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<v Speaker 1>How d everybody, it's January seventh, twenty sixteen. No, it's not,

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<v Speaker 1>but in my world it is. It's actually twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>But we're going to go back in time to January

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<v Speaker 1>twenty sixteen to listen to the episode on body language.

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<v Speaker 1>And I said it like that because for some reason,

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<v Speaker 1>it has an exclamation point in the end. So please

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<v Speaker 1>enjoy body language. Welcome to Stuff you should know, a

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<v Speaker 1>production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's

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<v Speaker 2>Charles w Chuck Bryant, Jerry's in the house.

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<v Speaker 1>We're back to basics.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're doing a social sciences episode. Man, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>we're all right, man, we get to tear it apart.

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<v Speaker 2>You you believe in body.

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<v Speaker 1>Language, sure, watch this. You're winking and shouldering and nodding

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<v Speaker 1>your head and you're loosening up and you're doing some

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<v Speaker 1>weird biting thing. What did I say? You said I'm

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<v Speaker 1>feeling silly.

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<v Speaker 2>That's exactly what I was saying.

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<v Speaker 1>How about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it said I've had a diet mountain dew and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm pepped up.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, that's what I was saying. I missed the

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<v Speaker 1>Uh no, I'm crashing and he's down.

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<v Speaker 2>You doing good?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm hanging on by a thread. Are you sure

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<v Speaker 1>we can make it through this? Man?

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<v Speaker 2>You can do this in your sleep. Okay, don't go

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<v Speaker 2>to sleep. Okay, it will be so boring.

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<v Speaker 1>You could theoretically do this in your sleep. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I gotcha. Yeah. So body language it is a thing.

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<v Speaker 1>When I was researching, I was like, this is junk science.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no way this is real. And I could not

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<v Speaker 1>find anything that.

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<v Speaker 2>Just said like, yes, body language is obviously junk science.

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<v Speaker 2>Apparently it's very well established and well reputed. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>I understand like, like, yes, there is such thing as

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<v Speaker 2>body language intruded in evolution. Yeah, it's basically evidence of

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<v Speaker 2>evolution from an animalian ancestor.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But the idea that like you can read somebody, especially

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<v Speaker 2>like that facial coding system, it just struck me as

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<v Speaker 2>really like junkie.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well we did. I could have sworn we had

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<v Speaker 1>done this one when I we did micro expression. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we did that in I think two thousand and nine,

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<v Speaker 1>and I don't remember how I weighed in on it

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<v Speaker 1>back then. So I'm just going to start anew. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>it may, it may be a different take. I have

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<v Speaker 1>no idea.

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<v Speaker 2>People grow and change, their opinions evolve, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Well here's what I think. Of course, body language is

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<v Speaker 1>real and it can tell you a lot, can tell

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<v Speaker 1>you a lot, uh huh, but it can also miss

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<v Speaker 1>You can be misdirected very easily. Sure and h I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll get to it. But I found some stuff from

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<v Speaker 1>a former FBI guy. Even it doesn't say it's junk science,

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<v Speaker 1>but he's like, you can fool somebody too if you're

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<v Speaker 1>a sociopath. You know this about body language of micro expressions. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>apparently it's a myth that uh, that's how I get by.

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<v Speaker 1>Apparently it's a myth that icon or not having eye

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<v Speaker 1>contact means deception, while it can. His whole point is

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<v Speaker 1>they've done studies over the years and habitual liars and

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<v Speaker 1>anti socials in psychopaths have the most eye.

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<v Speaker 2>Contact, probably because there's that myth. Yeah exactly, So it's

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<v Speaker 2>like a self fulfilling myth.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Ted Bundy was probably like, I gotta make great

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<v Speaker 1>eye contacts with everyone looking into your soul, otherwise the

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<v Speaker 1>jig will be up right and I won't get to

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<v Speaker 1>kill people any longer. My favorite thing, right, and.

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<v Speaker 2>Then so yeah, there's a lot of myth.

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<v Speaker 1>There's that.

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<v Speaker 2>There's that one myth also where like you look up

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<v Speaker 2>into the right or up into the left of your

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<v Speaker 2>lying or recalling. Yeah, remember I can't remember we do.

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<v Speaker 2>We debunked that in something here or there a while back.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think. I think body language is fun to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about and study. But when you're convicting someone as

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<v Speaker 1>a jury based on micro expression, yes, there's where the

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<v Speaker 1>junk science comes in for me, it gets a little dangerous.

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<v Speaker 2>And not just with body language too. We need to

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<v Speaker 2>do a whole episode on forensics in general and just

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<v Speaker 2>how junkie the science that most of it is based on.

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<v Speaker 2>It's basically the only thing that's less standing is DNA,

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<v Speaker 2>and even that can be wildly misinterpreted. Yeah, and we're

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<v Speaker 2>using this to like execute people. Yeah, and there's a

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<v Speaker 2>big problem with it. So I think we've arrived at

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<v Speaker 2>my problem with it. It's junk science when you apply

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<v Speaker 2>it for like law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, as fact. Yeah, agreed, Okay, so can we be done.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the other thing that got me too, Albert Mehrabian,

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<v Speaker 1>I totally.

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<v Speaker 2>Nailed that guy's name.

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<v Speaker 1>I bet the h is silent Arabian Merabian, I bet

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<v Speaker 1>it's just Morabian, not Arabian anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>Doctor Morabian back in nineteen eighty one said that in

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<v Speaker 2>the first four minutes of meeting someone, our facial expressions

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<v Speaker 2>account for sixty five percent of the impression we make.

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<v Speaker 2>Seven percent of that impression comes from our actual words,

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<v Speaker 2>while the remainder of the information comes from our tone

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<v Speaker 2>of voice. Yeah, I think is what made me think, like, no,

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<v Speaker 2>this is all b Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because it sounds who can say that, you can't.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe in nineteen eighty one you could get away with

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<v Speaker 2>that crap, not in twenty fifteen.

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<v Speaker 1>No, sixteen, Yeah, you lived in the past. Yeah, Morabian was.

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<v Speaker 1>He was probably one of the first researchers to study

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<v Speaker 1>this in the nineteen forties out of UCLA. And I agree,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't just break down percentages. I think what he

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<v Speaker 1>really means to say, if I may speak for him, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>is facial expressions and tone of voice account for a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of a lot of what you're getting out of

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<v Speaker 1>a person.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

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<v Speaker 1>And the words account maybe for even less than those

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<v Speaker 1>two things combined.

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<v Speaker 2>I think people would agree with that too. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's when you quantify it. Yeah, sure, seven percent. He

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<v Speaker 2>just said that just because it sounds authoritative.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because he like he fed it into the percentage

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<v Speaker 1>three maker of three thousand and it spit it out.

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<v Speaker 1>But that is not to miss a point that communicating

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<v Speaker 1>inadvertently is something that we all do through bodyling. Sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there was a there's a great quote I ran

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<v Speaker 2>across on a Psychology Today post. It was the quote

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<v Speaker 2>comes from a sixteenth century Scottish mathematician named John Napier,

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<v Speaker 2>and he said, if language was given to men to

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<v Speaker 2>conceal there, oh you found it too, huh.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's about as good.

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<v Speaker 2>A quote of body language as you can come up with.

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<v Speaker 1>You do it, chuck, No, you you were already do

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<v Speaker 1>you better sixteenth century Scottish mathematicians. No way, I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>doing do you?

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<v Speaker 2>Sean Connery reading this, man.

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<v Speaker 1>If language was given to men then shield their thoughts,

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<v Speaker 1>then gesture's purpose was to disclose them. That's perfect, not bad.

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<v Speaker 2>That was a dead on John Napier.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not as good as my crystal fault.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So Napier makes a pretty good point, like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you can language has all sorts of structure and can

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<v Speaker 2>be mastered. Body language is much of it is just

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<v Speaker 2>inadvertent and we don't even realize necessarily when you're picking

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<v Speaker 2>up on it. You just get this weird gut feeling

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<v Speaker 2>that no, I don't trust this car salesman, or I

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<v Speaker 2>want to give this car salesman all my money depending

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<v Speaker 2>on the body language.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's pretty clear that this started a long

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<v Speaker 1>time ago, like it predates language, right because who wrote this,

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<v Speaker 1>By the way, this.

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<v Speaker 2>Is a Patrick Kiger joint.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh Kiger. Yeah. Kiger says rightfully that in Tuktook's age,

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<v Speaker 1>you didn't have a lot of time to suss things

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<v Speaker 1>out like up close and personal. You know, once you

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<v Speaker 1>got close enough within striking distance, you can be stricken. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you might already have that club upside your head right

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<v Speaker 1>or that rock in your face. Yeah, So you needed

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<v Speaker 1>to judge someone's body language as they approach you to survive. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you know.

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<v Speaker 2>So body language makes sense. And you would also presuppose

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<v Speaker 2>that since we are descended from animals and animals clearly

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<v Speaker 2>do engage in body language, that body.

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<v Speaker 1>Language will be older than language.

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<v Speaker 2>Although this article says that language didn't exist until about

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred thousand years ago. That's under dispute. No, really,

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<v Speaker 2>possibly as much as a million years ago, people were

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<v Speaker 2>using some sort of verbal communication.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and Neanderthals apparently also had language. Probably interesting, It

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<v Speaker 2>is pretty interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd like to do one on animal communication, have we not?

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<v Speaker 1>I think we touched on it here and there. But

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<v Speaker 1>I know there's a lot of things like cats purring

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<v Speaker 1>and tails wagging on dogs that are misinterpreted. Yeah, or

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<v Speaker 1>like a wolf growling, I think that means compet me.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's often as interpreted as a warning.

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<v Speaker 2>Come take this stink out of my mouth if you dare.

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<v Speaker 1>Should we take a break? Sure, all right, let's take

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<v Speaker 1>a quick one, and we're going to get back and

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<v Speaker 1>explain a little bit more about what one researcher calls

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<v Speaker 1>thin slices of experience. So, Josh I said something about

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<v Speaker 1>thin slices of experience. And I'm not talking about the

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<v Speaker 1>roast beef line at the buffet, which is great, thin

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<v Speaker 1>slices the carving station. Yeah, yeah, you ever work at

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<v Speaker 1>carving station? Have I ever worked one? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>I've hung around one long enough that I basically should

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<v Speaker 2>have been paid, but I was just eating.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you wait for the next roast to come

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<v Speaker 1>out so you can get the in cut.

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<v Speaker 2>I've never been into and cuts it whether it be

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<v Speaker 2>a loaf of bread or cut of meat.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh really, like a prime rib end cut? Yeah, no, daddy,

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<v Speaker 1>that's good, isn't it?

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<v Speaker 2>All salt?

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe that's why I love it?

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<v Speaker 2>You like the salt huh oh yeah, yeah. South to me,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like the closer you get to the middle, the juice.

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<v Speaker 1>He or it. Well, that's lower cooked. Yeah, and a

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<v Speaker 1>little a little rarer in the middle, right obviously.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I think that's my problem with the end

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<v Speaker 2>of anything. You know, it's under cooked. You overcooked?

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<v Speaker 1>About why people don't like to eat the crust? Why

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<v Speaker 1>because it's called crust And that might be part of it.

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<v Speaker 1>If like one hundred years ago they named it like

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<v Speaker 1>the butterfly Yeah, the butterfly slice. Ye, people would have

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<v Speaker 1>been like fighting for it, like the butterfly slice is delicious. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Have you ever heard George Carlin's little take on that

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<v Speaker 2>end slice that everybody always goes past. They're like, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not going to eat that. That's the poison piece of bread.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll leave that for my family to eat.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, I guess the end sitting called the crust, so

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<v Speaker 1>is it? The crust is what's around. But it's all crust.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the problem with Oh, okay, you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>It's nothing butt crust. Yeah, not butt crust. It's nothing

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<v Speaker 1>but crust. I think the other weird man, this is

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<v Speaker 1>a jer or so juve. This is a strange tangent.

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<v Speaker 1>I think. The other problem with the bread in pieces

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<v Speaker 1>is that eating one in piece with a regular slice

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<v Speaker 1>is a little weird. Yeah, but getting that other slice

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<v Speaker 1>off the tail end is not very feasible or efficient

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<v Speaker 1>to make two crust pieces.

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<v Speaker 2>No, but that frequently is the last sandwich that's made

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<v Speaker 2>out of the loaf because that one end piece has

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<v Speaker 2>been hanging around.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then finally it's made. Yeah, and then you

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<v Speaker 2>stick some turkey in it and weep quietly while you

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<v Speaker 2>eat your terrible sandwich. Man, thin slices where experience.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, this is a professor of psychology name Nalini and

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<v Speaker 1>body and Battie Huh from Toughs University. Shout out to

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<v Speaker 1>my buddy Robert Shahade from high school.

0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, he works at tough Speaking of you know, there's

0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.160
<v Speaker 2>a kid with like a really huge hit single out

0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.760
<v Speaker 2>right now from your high school. Really, I think your

0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.360
<v Speaker 2>high school's shown in the music video. It's watch Me Whip,

0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:26.160
<v Speaker 2>watch Me Nay Nay. It's read in yeah weird, yeah, Cilento.

0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:28.400
<v Speaker 1>So I'm no longer the most famous person in my

0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:28.960
<v Speaker 1>high school.

0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.520
<v Speaker 2>You were until about it six months ago.

0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:33.720
<v Speaker 1>And I will be again in another six months.

0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:37.280
<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's a pretty pretty catchy single. It's a hot, hot,

0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:38.040
<v Speaker 2>hot track.

0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.720
<v Speaker 1>Now. We actually we had several professional athletes that are

0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:44.360
<v Speaker 1>much more popular than me. We had a professional punter.

0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.880
<v Speaker 1>Actually maybe told me that before. Yeah, we have, We've

0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.240
<v Speaker 1>had a few. There's a baseball player. Uh had a punter.

0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Travis tript went to my high school. Shut up, really no,

0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.600
<v Speaker 1>see that's a big time yeah, Travis true big Yeah.

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:02.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't have any like superstars.

0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:04.960
<v Speaker 2>Luke Bryan went to Uni High school.

0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Man, you guys, where'd you go? Beverly Hill's nine.

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.120
<v Speaker 2>Or two on with Shannon Doherty.

0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:15.880
<v Speaker 1>Uh, oh boy, here we go again. Thin slices from

0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:16.840
<v Speaker 1>Tough's University.

0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:18.959
<v Speaker 2>Well, let's let's talk about the thin slices thing.

0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:19.160
<v Speaker 1>Man.

0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:25.199
<v Speaker 2>The you said earlier that it would be very advantageous

0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:30.559
<v Speaker 2>evolutionarily speaking, to be able to read maybe the rough

0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.800
<v Speaker 2>intentions of some other hunter gatherer one hundred thousand years ago,

0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.480
<v Speaker 2>read the room like from a distance before they could

0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:41.480
<v Speaker 2>hit you with a rock, right, if that was their intent. Sure, well,

0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:43.800
<v Speaker 2>just as much you want to be able to like

0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.600
<v Speaker 2>walk through the world and be threatened by stuff and

0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.680
<v Speaker 2>to make snap judgments about it based on things like

0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.480
<v Speaker 2>body language. Yeah, same thing. And this is what the

0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:54.840
<v Speaker 2>thin slices has to do with.

0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're just those first few seconds when you meet somebody.

0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 1>And I mean some people may just call it a

0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.760
<v Speaker 1>gut instinct about somebody, but what you're probably doing is

0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:07.320
<v Speaker 1>reading body language, right, That's what that gut instinct is. Yes,

0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.679
<v Speaker 1>And those things are processed and generated. And I think

0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.839
<v Speaker 1>the limbic system where emotions and feelings are processed in

0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:17.719
<v Speaker 1>the brain. Yeah, limbic system, from what I understand, that's right,

0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 1>which she thinks and I agree with her that it

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.600
<v Speaker 1>might explain why we have such such like a powerful

0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:26.720
<v Speaker 1>gut instinct about some people when we first meet them,

0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:28.600
<v Speaker 1>because it's tied to emotion. Yeah.

0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.600
<v Speaker 2>And the whole point is is this guy will cut

0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.680
<v Speaker 2>your throat if you turn your back on him, right,

0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.760
<v Speaker 2>probably not, But in our modern context, it's you know,

0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:44.120
<v Speaker 2>this guy will inflate the price of the car you

0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:48.400
<v Speaker 2>want to buy if you're not careful. Yeah, it's this

0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.200
<v Speaker 2>totally different things, but it's based on the same principle.

0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.120
<v Speaker 2>It's all based on body language, and we're able to

0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.280
<v Speaker 2>make snap judgments that we can't even stop and really

0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.600
<v Speaker 2>analyze what it was that person did or what it

0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:00.760
<v Speaker 2>was about him. We just know that we trust them

0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.320
<v Speaker 2>or don't, or we feel comfortable around them or not,

0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:05.880
<v Speaker 2>we fear them or we don't. Yeah, based on this

0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:09.000
<v Speaker 2>body language, and what this professor is saying is we

0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.560
<v Speaker 2>have a very ancient part of our brain that is

0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:13.880
<v Speaker 2>responsible for processing this stuff.

0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I think, just for me personally, I think

0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 1>if you try to focus on that too much, uh huh,

0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 1>then you're not doing yourselves any favors. Like let it

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:23.280
<v Speaker 1>be innate.

0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, there's some people who coach this kind of stuff.

0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that apparently say no, do all sorts of crazy,

0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.800
<v Speaker 2>weird stuff, which we'll talk about later.

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:40.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, agreed, But what you're looking at are there's three

0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.960
<v Speaker 1>different categories. I guess innate, learned, and some that are

0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:48.280
<v Speaker 1>both hybrid expressions and postures and things that you do

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.680
<v Speaker 1>and like, for instance, you're born with like you can blush,

0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.480
<v Speaker 1>that's an innate thing. You blush. You don't mean to blush,

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.200
<v Speaker 1>especially when somebody's staring at your cheek. Yeah, I don't

0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.760
<v Speaker 1>think you can make yourself blush. Watch this. Just think

0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:06.720
<v Speaker 1>about hot things in your mouth. Tighten up your core. Uh.

0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.120
<v Speaker 1>So that's the innate side learned would be things like

0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:15.600
<v Speaker 1>hanging someone a bird, yeah, out the car window, right,

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.640
<v Speaker 1>because everyone knows what that means depending on where you

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.120
<v Speaker 1>are and you've learned it.

0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:25.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's not something you're born doing, Like, yeah, I

0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.360
<v Speaker 2>got your diaper right here, come.

0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.040
<v Speaker 1>Change a photo of a baby Accidentally shooting a bird

0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.400
<v Speaker 1>is one of the great things. Sure can we agree.

0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 2>But it's accidentally. There's no meaning attached to it, that's

0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:39.160
<v Speaker 2>what you think. And then there's hybrid hybrid gestures that

0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.200
<v Speaker 2>are like shrugging is a really good example. It's something

0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:47.320
<v Speaker 2>you know you naturally shrug, right, right, but it's it's

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:51.200
<v Speaker 2>not contextual until you learn what to attack attach it to.

0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't know, sure you're not born and being like.

0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Right or you or you you cry, but you've also

0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:02.240
<v Speaker 1>learned that crying can get you something, maybe right, or

0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.240
<v Speaker 1>to get out of a traffic ticket or something sure,

0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:06.320
<v Speaker 1>to gain sympathy.

0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:10.440
<v Speaker 2>It can chase your parents off to the bar. Yeah, yeah,

0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.520
<v Speaker 2>one of those. And then Chuck I said something about

0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.919
<v Speaker 2>how you know, flipping somebody bird. Everybody knows what that means.

0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.280
<v Speaker 2>It does depend on where you are, sure, because there

0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:24.200
<v Speaker 2>is especially with learned. So I think innate body language

0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:28.000
<v Speaker 2>is virtually universal stuff that you couldn't possibly control. Like,

0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:30.600
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember why I read it. But if you

0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:34.320
<v Speaker 2>take a bite of something putrid and you make that horrible,

0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.439
<v Speaker 2>like disgusted face like oh my god, I'm about to

0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.560
<v Speaker 2>vomit everywhere, everybody who's watching you doesn't have to go

0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:43.880
<v Speaker 2>give me that and then take a bite and taste

0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.359
<v Speaker 2>it themselves. They can look at your face and be like,

0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:48.879
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going anywhere near that piece of feces that

0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.480
<v Speaker 2>guy just took a bite of. The That's how we

0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:52.800
<v Speaker 2>all learn not to eat feces.

0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but there's also the human thing where you're like,

0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:56.080
<v Speaker 1>oh God, smell this.

0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.399
<v Speaker 2>Right, that's the member who wants everyone else for like

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.520
<v Speaker 2>they just did. But everybody else has just been communicated

0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.760
<v Speaker 2>to by that innate face, that nasty face that you

0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:10.080
<v Speaker 2>would make when you eat something disgusting. And again that

0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:14.240
<v Speaker 2>evolutionarily that protects us in that respect innate stuff. So

0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:18.720
<v Speaker 2>that's universal, sure, but it's the learned stuff that's culturally dependent.

0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like, for instance, they have a few examples in

0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:25.359
<v Speaker 1>the article, Smiling in the US might mean in the

0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.399
<v Speaker 1>United States might mean you're happy, apparently in Asia it

0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:29.719
<v Speaker 1>might say I agree with you.

0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.680
<v Speaker 2>It could also cover up embarrassment if they're embarrassing for

0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:36.840
<v Speaker 2>you or something. Yeah, there, you might smile.

0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, is that why everyone's always smiling at me? They're

0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:45.080
<v Speaker 1>embarrassed for me? What else? Eye contact varies from place

0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.320
<v Speaker 1>to place. Here in the United States, someone might think

0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.359
<v Speaker 1>you're listening and like very keyed into what you're saying,

0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.119
<v Speaker 1>or your Ted Bundy or your Ted Bundy, or if

0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.640
<v Speaker 1>you're in Africa, maybe it might be disrespectful to look

0:18:58.680 --> 0:18:59.639
<v Speaker 1>someone right in the eye.

0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Looked around to find out what part of Africa because

0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:04.080
<v Speaker 2>I hate to leave it like that, you know, on

0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:07.320
<v Speaker 2>this massive continent, right, do not look people in the eyes?

0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.040
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't find any, and everyone said some parts of

0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.560
<v Speaker 2>Africa everywhere I look no one specifically said. In the Congo,

0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:19.520
<v Speaker 2>it's considered impolite or aggressive or something like that to

0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:24.879
<v Speaker 2>maintain eye contact. It's definitely in Japan. Yeah, if you

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.080
<v Speaker 2>make eye contact with somebody, you are saying I'm your superior.

0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.440
<v Speaker 2>So if you are socially or say business wise and

0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.320
<v Speaker 2>inferior to somebody, you're you're averting your gaze and it's respectful.

0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.760
<v Speaker 2>In the US, you shake hands and you make eye contact,

0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.240
<v Speaker 2>and you just you know, climbed a wrong right there.

0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:44.760
<v Speaker 1>Unless your Prince And then he's like, nobody can hide

0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:45.840
<v Speaker 1>eye contact with me?

0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.359
<v Speaker 2>Is that for real? Because he likes to do things

0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:50.080
<v Speaker 2>that just mess with people for fun.

0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think I think ninety percent of the stories

0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:54.639
<v Speaker 1>you've heard about Prince are not true.

0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:56.960
<v Speaker 2>What about him playing basketball, He's like a really good

0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:58.800
<v Speaker 2>basketball player, though, says Charlie Murphy.

0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, I believe and everything, Charlie Murphy.

0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Says, they I found some more culturally bound stuff.

0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:05.680
<v Speaker 1>What else?

0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.639
<v Speaker 2>Thumbs up in New Zealand does not mean like right on?

0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:12.840
<v Speaker 1>Does that mean it like thumb up your butt? Pretty much? Really?

0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you don't want to do that. Similarly, when you

0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.879
<v Speaker 2>make like the peace sign, as long as you're not

0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:21.680
<v Speaker 2>showing the people the back of your hand.

0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Sure, that's yeah.

0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.200
<v Speaker 2>And in in Australia and I believe New Zealand too,

0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:30.000
<v Speaker 2>like that movie Bad Taste, the cover of it that

0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:32.960
<v Speaker 2>I think Peter Jackson's first or second movie. Oh right,

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.040
<v Speaker 2>the cover of It's like an alien going like that,

0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:36.960
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, what's the what's two?

0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Why was he showing me the number two?

0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:41.479
<v Speaker 2>Then as I grew up, I learned to understand what

0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:42.000
<v Speaker 2>that was.

0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:43.719
<v Speaker 1>What else you got? Uh?

0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.920
<v Speaker 2>In some cultures, nodding means no, like nodding yes actually

0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:49.639
<v Speaker 2>means no, like in Greece and Bulgaria.

0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:51.639
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, I could get you in trouble.

0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And in Mexico, Mexico, this is what I found. Mexico,

0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:01.119
<v Speaker 2>Haiti and Spain, it is perfectly normal to go to

0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:03.919
<v Speaker 2>a waiter, which I do. I don't do it to waiters,

0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.560
<v Speaker 2>but I'm a kind of person. That's how you call

0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.360
<v Speaker 2>someone over and get their attention. You may also make

0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.080
<v Speaker 2>kissing noises at them to a waiter.

0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Really Yeah, So I go to Mexico, I need

0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:17.680
<v Speaker 1>my check and I go.

0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.240
<v Speaker 2>I guess according to this thing that I read, which

0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:22.400
<v Speaker 2>seemed pretty legitimate.

0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:24.720
<v Speaker 1>Interesting. Yeah, what was the website?

0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember. I'll definitely send it to you to post.

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:32.320
<v Speaker 2>But it was like it was researched material to be

0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:35.040
<v Speaker 2>used by business people around the world. If it was

0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:37.359
<v Speaker 2>a hoax, then they did a pretty good job. Fool

0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:38.440
<v Speaker 2>of me, gotcha.

0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:40.600
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's take another break and we'll come back

0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:44.639
<v Speaker 1>and we'll talk about deciphering some of these nonverbal cues

0:21:44.720 --> 0:22:05.920
<v Speaker 1>right after this. All right, So language is a very

0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.440
<v Speaker 1>precise thing, or it should be or can be. Body

0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:12.640
<v Speaker 1>language would you would think is just all over the map,

0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:18.879
<v Speaker 1>But they're actually some categories that some brilliant social scientists

0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:21.600
<v Speaker 1>have come up with. Yeah, and I think they make sense.

0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:25.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, basically that they've broken it down into five categories

0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:29.840
<v Speaker 2>or five types of nonverbal communication and body language.

0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's emblems. It's like hanging a bird, yeah, or shaking.

0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Your fist or something like that, something that that is

0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:40.160
<v Speaker 2>very symbolic of something else that you can also put

0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:41.920
<v Speaker 2>into words, Right.

0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:43.119
<v Speaker 1>Who shakes a fist at someone?

0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Some people do, Okay, it's a good it's a it's

0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:48.359
<v Speaker 2>a good.

0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, because it's that middle finger. And then you're

0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:56.879
<v Speaker 1>really that's very aggressive Okay, that's very aggressive. I'm just kidding.

0:22:56.880 --> 0:23:00.560
<v Speaker 1>I never flick someone a bird. Oh really, Oh yeah,

0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:03.880
<v Speaker 1>like in a car or something. No way, Yeah, apparently

0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:07.119
<v Speaker 1>it's really dangerous. Yeah, and that's yeah, that's why I

0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:09.160
<v Speaker 1>do it. I think it's just I mean, I'll get mad.

0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:12.080
<v Speaker 1>I didn't say things, but I would never I don't

0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:14.920
<v Speaker 1>know who that person is. Yeah, it could be a psycho. Yeah.

0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.120
<v Speaker 1>Then you're getting chased or you're getting shot at by

0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:20.520
<v Speaker 1>someone because you like you just had to shoot a bird. Yeah.

0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:22.720
<v Speaker 1>We talked about this in the road Rage episode. Yeah.

0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:24.840
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't hang people the bird, and that's not smart.

0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:27.160
<v Speaker 2>By the way, I want to update on that. I've

0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:30.640
<v Speaker 2>been improving more and more behaviorally. Oh yeah, even since

0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:32.800
<v Speaker 2>the road Range episode. And I was already on the

0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:36.520
<v Speaker 2>right path then. So you're doing good behind the wheelings

0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:39.880
<v Speaker 2>are doing so good. I feel like I'm about the same. Well,

0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:42.800
<v Speaker 2>you've always been that way, but I get mad. One

0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:44.359
<v Speaker 2>time you rode with me. I think it was the

0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:46.840
<v Speaker 2>first time you ever rode with me, and I started

0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:51.240
<v Speaker 2>yelling at somebody. You're like, uh, really, you seem genuinely surprised,

0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:54.480
<v Speaker 2>and I remember thinking, like, this is abnormal.

0:23:57.280 --> 0:23:59.439
<v Speaker 1>Well that was probably because you were like sending an

0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:02.040
<v Speaker 1>email with your left hand and driving with your knee

0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:03.560
<v Speaker 1>and had a coffee in the other.

0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I've gotten so much better.

0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:07.399
<v Speaker 1>That's good. It's because you value your life.

0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:08.320
<v Speaker 2>I do.

0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:15.200
<v Speaker 1>It's great emblems after emblems illustrators, which like shaking your

0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:22.040
<v Speaker 1>head as far as emphasis, if to emphasize something you're saying, right, like.

0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:25.439
<v Speaker 2>Like no, Sure you can just say no, but the

0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:27.960
<v Speaker 2>person's like, it doesn't really mean that until you shake

0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:32.000
<v Speaker 2>your head by you say no, especially slowly. Yeah, that

0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:34.320
<v Speaker 2>you're really saying like do not ask me again?

0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:36.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, boy, I never thought about that. The slow one

0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:38.400
<v Speaker 1>really does mean something different. It does.

0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:40.360
<v Speaker 2>It adds, it bulks it up, you.

0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Know, regulators. I think this is in a conversation to

0:24:47.880 --> 0:24:51.160
<v Speaker 1>let someone else know that maybe all right, it's time

0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:52.760
<v Speaker 1>for you to talk now, or it's time for me.

0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:55.719
<v Speaker 2>To talk right, or it's time for us to stop talking,

0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:57.040
<v Speaker 2>like looking at your.

0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:59.800
<v Speaker 1>Watch or just getting them walking away. That's yeah, that's

0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:03.240
<v Speaker 1>they language. Yeah, I guess it is. It definitely speaks volumes.

0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:07.879
<v Speaker 1>There's adapters, which I guess have to do with the

0:25:07.960 --> 0:25:12.400
<v Speaker 1>person listening or I guess anybody either one making themselves

0:25:12.480 --> 0:25:15.160
<v Speaker 1>more comfortable. Like you know, when you're in a conversation

0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:17.200
<v Speaker 1>with somebody and they just kind of shift in their

0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:18.359
<v Speaker 1>seat like settle in.

0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:22.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Now they could be doing it differently where they're fidgeting,

0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:25.880
<v Speaker 2>they're shifting in their seat uncomfortably, like they can't get comfortable.

0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:28.359
<v Speaker 2>That says something totally different than somebody who's just like

0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:31.720
<v Speaker 2>settling in, just making themselves more comfortable.

0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Right, Or I guess if you like, if you're having

0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:35.960
<v Speaker 1>a conversation and someone just sits up on the edge

0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:39.000
<v Speaker 1>of their seat, that kind of says we're done here sure,

0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:41.880
<v Speaker 1>like I'm about to get up, Yeah, so please say

0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:42.760
<v Speaker 1>something enclosure.

0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:45.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, especially if you sigh while you do that too,

0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:46.040
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:49.400
<v Speaker 2>And then there's affect displays, And these are the ones

0:25:49.400 --> 0:25:52.040
<v Speaker 2>that most people think of when they think of body language.

0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:54.919
<v Speaker 2>These are the ones that you know, like where you

0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:57.720
<v Speaker 2>make that face when you eat something putrid, or your

0:25:57.720 --> 0:26:00.480
<v Speaker 2>shoulders go up around your ears when you're scared all

0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:01.400
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden.

0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you're mad. It's emotional based, Yeah, emotion.

0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:06.919
<v Speaker 2>Based, Yeah, like your eyebrows furrow.

0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:07.400
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:10.680
<v Speaker 2>There's just so much body language. I came across this

0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:14.119
<v Speaker 2>one guy from nineteen seventy eight and m Argyle no

0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:16.920
<v Speaker 2>idea what the M stands for. But in nineteen seventy eight,

0:26:16.960 --> 0:26:21.240
<v Speaker 2>Professor m Argyle, a researcher of body language, said that

0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:26.000
<v Speaker 2>there's probably something like seven hundred thousand words in the

0:26:26.040 --> 0:26:30.080
<v Speaker 2>body language human body language. I have no idea how

0:26:30.440 --> 0:26:31.240
<v Speaker 2>he or she came.

0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:33.760
<v Speaker 1>Up with that. That seems high, but it's fun to

0:26:33.800 --> 0:26:39.000
<v Speaker 1>throw out there. Junk science nineteen seventy eight. Yeah, you

0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:43.720
<v Speaker 1>could say anything back then as far as like social psychology. Yeah,

0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:48.640
<v Speaker 1>misinterpreting body languages, we talked a little bit about that.

0:26:48.640 --> 0:26:52.480
<v Speaker 1>That is very easy to do. They have one little

0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:55.280
<v Speaker 1>anecdotal story about a woman who was a consultant that

0:26:55.680 --> 0:26:57.320
<v Speaker 1>I think she was pitching him the CEO of a

0:26:57.359 --> 0:27:00.960
<v Speaker 1>big company, and the guy just sat there basically with

0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:03.879
<v Speaker 1>his arms crossed and didn't emote. At the end, was

0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:05.680
<v Speaker 1>just like thank you, and she thought, well, I've blown

0:27:05.720 --> 0:27:09.000
<v Speaker 1>this one, And turns out that is just the way

0:27:09.000 --> 0:27:12.240
<v Speaker 1>that guy is. He loved look at you. He loved

0:27:12.240 --> 0:27:15.119
<v Speaker 1>the presentation, and if he hadn't liked it, he just

0:27:15.160 --> 0:27:19.800
<v Speaker 1>would have left, is what the partner said. I think. Yeah,

0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:25.399
<v Speaker 1>so you can easily misinterpret body language. I don't know

0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:27.680
<v Speaker 1>if it's I guess it could be dangerous and that well,

0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:29.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's part of the problem. It can be dangerous,

0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:31.840
<v Speaker 1>especially when you apply it to law enforcement.

0:27:31.920 --> 0:27:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Like Paul Eckman. We talked about him heavily in the

0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:40.000
<v Speaker 2>micro Expressions episode because he basically studied micro expressions through

0:27:40.040 --> 0:27:44.040
<v Speaker 2>facial movement, facial muscle movement, and figured out what each

0:27:44.040 --> 0:27:47.600
<v Speaker 2>one meant, and he came up with the Facial action

0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:51.720
<v Speaker 2>Coding System the FACS, which apparently the FBI and other

0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:55.720
<v Speaker 2>law enforcement agencies used to tell whether you're lying or

0:27:55.720 --> 0:28:00.840
<v Speaker 2>you're hiding something in an interrogation. Misreading that that's that's

0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:02.560
<v Speaker 2>when it becomes dangerous for sure.

0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:05.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this dude I was talking about Joe Navarro, who

0:28:05.840 --> 0:28:07.600
<v Speaker 1>was a twenty five year of veut of the FBI.

0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:11.080
<v Speaker 1>He's written a lot about body language, and he's one

0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:14.159
<v Speaker 1>of the ones that warns about the myths and misreading things.

0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:18.960
<v Speaker 1>But he wrote a whole article on shoulders and he

0:28:18.960 --> 0:28:21.760
<v Speaker 1>said everyone's always talking about the face and facial expressions.

0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:24.080
<v Speaker 1>He thinks you can read a lot into the shoulders

0:28:24.119 --> 0:28:27.879
<v Speaker 1>of a person, whether it's slumping or bowing up or

0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:32.320
<v Speaker 1>and then he actually talked to criminals over his entire

0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:35.120
<v Speaker 1>career and said, what do you look for in a victim?

0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:38.560
<v Speaker 1>So if you're looking to not be victimized, you might

0:28:38.800 --> 0:28:42.360
<v Speaker 1>want to avoid these things looking frail or weak or

0:28:42.400 --> 0:28:43.600
<v Speaker 1>not athletic.

0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, work out, yeah, or just you know, try.

0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:49.440
<v Speaker 1>And carry yourself like you're not frail or weak, you know.

0:28:49.520 --> 0:28:51.080
<v Speaker 1>And I think there's a lot to do with the shoulders.

0:28:52.920 --> 0:28:55.560
<v Speaker 1>Situational awareness, which is a big one. Yeah, if you

0:28:55.640 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 1>just look like you have your head in the clouds,

0:28:58.080 --> 0:29:00.480
<v Speaker 1>that's one for me a target, Yeah, what you're in

0:29:00.520 --> 0:29:04.600
<v Speaker 1>your head about something? Sure? Yeah. Uh. And then the

0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:10.880
<v Speaker 1>way someone swings their arms like vigorously or real subdued,

0:29:11.240 --> 0:29:14.440
<v Speaker 1>not at all like on that one episode the Box,

0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:18.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah that was was that Roquel Welch, No, it was, well, yeah,

0:29:18.640 --> 0:29:22.120
<v Speaker 1>it ended up as Roquel Welch, but it was Molly Shannon.

0:29:22.320 --> 0:29:27.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah yeah, yeah, remember she like swept Yeah what

0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:31.800
<v Speaker 1>Elaine's desk is clean man? Yeah Shannon, And she's one

0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:36.480
<v Speaker 1>of my favorites. Yeah, she's fantastic. So what was Yeah

0:29:36.480 --> 0:29:40.560
<v Speaker 1>the arm swing and basically, uh, what these criminals would

0:29:40.560 --> 0:29:42.680
<v Speaker 1>say to him over and over is you know there

0:29:42.920 --> 0:29:46.240
<v Speaker 1>the silver backs don't go after other silverbacks. They go

0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:48.280
<v Speaker 1>after the weak ones. And they said, it's the same

0:29:48.280 --> 0:29:52.080
<v Speaker 1>with criminals. So I keep those shoulders straight. And I

0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:53.880
<v Speaker 1>was like, what's the silverback? I forgot?

0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:58.360
<v Speaker 2>That sounds like a criminal corporate buzz speak. Yeah, you

0:29:58.440 --> 0:30:01.840
<v Speaker 2>know it's over becks. That's the local soccer team. How

0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:03.160
<v Speaker 2>do you not know what that is?

0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:03.480
<v Speaker 1>Is it?

0:30:03.640 --> 0:30:03.920
<v Speaker 2>Sure?

0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:08.600
<v Speaker 1>That is what I thought? Yeah? Uh? What else we got? Oh,

0:30:08.640 --> 0:30:11.160
<v Speaker 1>these these people that try and coach you, we're gonna

0:30:11.360 --> 0:30:14.920
<v Speaker 1>mention them nutjobs. I don't think they're nut jobs, dude.

0:30:14.960 --> 0:30:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay. One, the one person who emerges a hero from

0:30:17.960 --> 0:30:22.920
<v Speaker 2>this article says, be very careful in trying to pay

0:30:22.960 --> 0:30:27.360
<v Speaker 2>attention to your body language and speak consciously through it,

0:30:27.440 --> 0:30:31.680
<v Speaker 2>because you're going to you're gonna have massive problems. Yeah,

0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:35.320
<v Speaker 2>that's not what body language is intended for. So the

0:30:35.360 --> 0:30:38.000
<v Speaker 2>people who say no, master your body language and use

0:30:38.040 --> 0:30:41.479
<v Speaker 2>it to communicate. Yeah, you're gonna come off as a creep, right,

0:30:41.760 --> 0:30:46.160
<v Speaker 2>an aggressive, weirdo corporate creep if you do that.

0:30:46.600 --> 0:30:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, I mean, if you're making a presentation, it's

0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:52.520
<v Speaker 1>hard enough to get the words right. Yeah, So if

0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:54.920
<v Speaker 1>you start thinking like about every single movement you make

0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:57.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah that conveys. Yeah, I don't I agree. I don't

0:30:57.680 --> 0:30:59.600
<v Speaker 1>think you're doing yourself any favors or like if.

0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:03.240
<v Speaker 2>You go to you again a car sales car lot, right, yeah,

0:31:03.240 --> 0:31:05.080
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, I'm going to make sure I look

0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:08.360
<v Speaker 2>very defensive and aggressive. So I'm going to go rigid

0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:10.680
<v Speaker 2>and my shoulders are going to go up right. The

0:31:10.800 --> 0:31:13.160
<v Speaker 2>car sales is going to be like that guy's walking

0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:15.360
<v Speaker 2>like a robot, I'm going to take him for a ride.

0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:20.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, there's you just you could conceivably speak through

0:31:21.000 --> 0:31:24.080
<v Speaker 2>your body language more. I don't dispute that. Right, you

0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:27.000
<v Speaker 2>can become more aware of your natural body language too,

0:31:27.120 --> 0:31:29.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't dispute that either. But when you focus on

0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:32.560
<v Speaker 2>it and use it as a technique to manipulate other people, yeah,

0:31:32.760 --> 0:31:33.719
<v Speaker 2>I have issues with that.

0:31:34.080 --> 0:31:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, here was one idea I didn't think was terrible,

0:31:36.240 --> 0:31:39.520
<v Speaker 1>Like if you're if you do a lot of public speaking,

0:31:40.200 --> 0:31:43.920
<v Speaker 1>then maybe watching yourself with the sound off.

0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:45.680
<v Speaker 2>Sure. I didn't disagree with that on anything.

0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:46.720
<v Speaker 1>That's not a terrible idea.

0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:48.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think as a matter of fact, I was like,

0:31:48.560 --> 0:31:49.760
<v Speaker 2>maybe maybe I should try that.

0:31:49.920 --> 0:31:53.200
<v Speaker 1>No, don't bet that. The other technique that was brought

0:31:53.240 --> 0:31:55.400
<v Speaker 1>up was called mirroring. That means, and this just sounds

0:31:55.400 --> 0:31:57.800
<v Speaker 1>crazy to me. This is when you actually try and

0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:01.000
<v Speaker 1>mimic the person you're talking to, mimic their body language

0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:03.200
<v Speaker 1>expressions too, I guess, to.

0:32:03.560 --> 0:32:06.200
<v Speaker 2>Make them feel more comfortable to you. People are attracted

0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:09.640
<v Speaker 2>to themselves as the basis of it, Okay, so when

0:32:09.680 --> 0:32:14.600
<v Speaker 2>you mimic them, they feel more relaxed around you, Like

0:32:14.800 --> 0:32:16.720
<v Speaker 2>I really like that person. I like the cut of

0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:18.320
<v Speaker 2>their jib. I don't know, I can't put my finger

0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:21.400
<v Speaker 2>on it. But they're actually mimicking your own body language.

0:32:21.400 --> 0:32:24.640
<v Speaker 2>If you're leaning leaning against the wall, they're going to

0:32:24.720 --> 0:32:25.720
<v Speaker 2>lean against the wall too.

0:32:25.800 --> 0:32:28.400
<v Speaker 1>That's disconcerting, it is, that's nuts.

0:32:28.600 --> 0:32:31.280
<v Speaker 2>You shouldn't do that to people. That's manipulative and weird,

0:32:31.560 --> 0:32:34.400
<v Speaker 2>and it just be yourself. How about that?

0:32:34.960 --> 0:32:37.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think this quote sums it up. I'm trying

0:32:37.200 --> 0:32:39.560
<v Speaker 1>to learn. I'm trying. Sorry, Trying to use body language

0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:42.120
<v Speaker 1>by reading a body language dictionary is like trying to

0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:45.080
<v Speaker 1>speak French by reading a French dictionary. So you can

0:32:45.120 --> 0:32:48.160
<v Speaker 1>list off all the nonverbal cues in the world. But

0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:52.480
<v Speaker 1>if you try and learn the body language quote unquote

0:32:52.720 --> 0:32:55.960
<v Speaker 1>because of that, then you're just gonna end up confused

0:32:56.040 --> 0:32:57.760
<v Speaker 1>or you're going to miss something actually said.

0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And plus also context is huge too, Like if

0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:03.480
<v Speaker 2>you're just watching somebody's body language like a hawk and

0:33:03.520 --> 0:33:06.840
<v Speaker 2>a conversation, yeah, you don't necessarily know that person's baseline.

0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:10.520
<v Speaker 2>So what is by definition of this body language dictionary,

0:33:11.440 --> 0:33:14.760
<v Speaker 2>a red flag? Doesn't necessarily mean it's a red flag

0:33:14.800 --> 0:33:17.040
<v Speaker 2>with that person, you know, like if they're yawning, are

0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:19.479
<v Speaker 2>they bored or are they nervous?

0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Right?

0:33:20.400 --> 0:33:22.360
<v Speaker 2>You got to have contexts and you can't just you

0:33:22.400 --> 0:33:23.720
<v Speaker 2>can't just read people like that.

0:33:23.800 --> 0:33:24.480
<v Speaker 1>It's stupid.

0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:28.560
<v Speaker 2>Go with your gut, sure, but I don't think you

0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:30.800
<v Speaker 2>should actively try to read it. If you want to

0:33:30.840 --> 0:33:33.920
<v Speaker 2>go ahead, I don't care. I'm not going to.

0:33:34.080 --> 0:33:37.640
<v Speaker 1>I did read an article with one woman who was

0:33:37.680 --> 0:33:40.480
<v Speaker 1>an expert supposedly, and she did talk a lot about

0:33:40.480 --> 0:33:43.040
<v Speaker 1>the baseline. She's like, that's the most important thing is

0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:45.280
<v Speaker 1>you don't know. You got to know how someone normally is.

0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:49.600
<v Speaker 1>Are they twitchy? Yeah? Then if you're they're twitching a conversation,

0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:50.600
<v Speaker 1>that's normal for them.

0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Right, So it doesn't mean that you can't trust what

0:33:52.640 --> 0:33:54.640
<v Speaker 2>they're saying, right then, it just means that they're.

0:33:54.760 --> 0:34:00.400
<v Speaker 1>A little awkward. Yeah, like me, You're not awkward. Are

0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:01.800
<v Speaker 1>you got anything else? Nope?

0:34:02.200 --> 0:34:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Friends, that is body language, and if you want to

0:34:04.440 --> 0:34:08.280
<v Speaker 2>know more about it, you can type these words body

0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:10.680
<v Speaker 2>language into the search bar at house stuff works dot com.

0:34:10.719 --> 0:34:13.479
<v Speaker 2>And since I said friends, it's time for listener mail.

0:34:16.200 --> 0:34:19.239
<v Speaker 1>This is this is a question. Actually I said we'd

0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:21.520
<v Speaker 1>answer on the air. Hey, guys, been listening for quite

0:34:21.520 --> 0:34:23.520
<v Speaker 1>a few years, and you've seen me through a lot

0:34:23.560 --> 0:34:26.000
<v Speaker 1>of years of growth out of high school and into

0:34:26.040 --> 0:34:29.160
<v Speaker 1>my own as an adult. A question that's been a

0:34:29.200 --> 0:34:33.880
<v Speaker 1>challenge for me recently. I'm studying permaculture quite intensively, and

0:34:33.920 --> 0:34:36.719
<v Speaker 1>parts of the study are pretty depressing, like climate change,

0:34:36.760 --> 0:34:40.480
<v Speaker 1>species lost, and unfair trade. I try to reflect positives

0:34:40.520 --> 0:34:43.680
<v Speaker 1>only to my clients who are trying to grow their

0:34:43.719 --> 0:34:46.800
<v Speaker 1>own food, because I'd rather encourage them to sustain themselves

0:34:46.800 --> 0:34:50.280
<v Speaker 1>physically and emotionally than feel guilted or trapped into changing

0:34:50.280 --> 0:34:52.880
<v Speaker 1>a lifestyle, realize that having the opportunity and time to

0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:55.200
<v Speaker 1>focus on ethical choices to the luxury, and want to

0:34:55.200 --> 0:34:58.680
<v Speaker 1>avoid shaming people. I think this approach is good for

0:34:58.800 --> 0:35:01.600
<v Speaker 1>my own well being, because tackling issues bigger than myself

0:35:01.600 --> 0:35:04.520
<v Speaker 1>seems more harmful than productive. But like you, part of

0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:09.279
<v Speaker 1>my job is education. So the question is how do

0:35:09.280 --> 0:35:11.640
<v Speaker 1>you guys deal with darker topics that you cover. I

0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:14.040
<v Speaker 1>really appreciate the way you do it, and I would

0:35:14.080 --> 0:35:16.560
<v Speaker 1>like some insight and advice how you prevent these topics

0:35:16.600 --> 0:35:19.200
<v Speaker 1>from weighing too heavily on you and still live a

0:35:19.239 --> 0:35:23.960
<v Speaker 1>life of enjoyment yet conveying topics honestly. And that is

0:35:24.000 --> 0:35:31.120
<v Speaker 1>from Annales in Australia, nice ew. I think my answer is,

0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:34.759
<v Speaker 1>like when we cover something like dementia or HIV like

0:35:34.800 --> 0:35:37.720
<v Speaker 1>we recently did, we're always going to have humor in there,

0:35:38.440 --> 0:35:41.480
<v Speaker 1>respectfully and in the right ways, because that's what we do.

0:35:42.280 --> 0:35:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Plus also that helps when we're getting this stuff across.

0:35:45.040 --> 0:35:50.120
<v Speaker 2>It's not like it's not like we're causing dementia. We're

0:35:50.160 --> 0:35:53.040
<v Speaker 2>just saying, like, here's all the information that we found

0:35:53.040 --> 0:35:56.799
<v Speaker 2>on this, here's everything you need to know about dementia.

0:35:56.840 --> 0:35:59.480
<v Speaker 2>And I think the thing that allows us to go

0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:03.320
<v Speaker 2>from you know, lighthearted topic to a very dark topic

0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:07.520
<v Speaker 2>to whatever is that we're putting it out there as

0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:10.719
<v Speaker 2>objectively as possible or as unbiased as possible, trying to

0:36:10.920 --> 0:36:13.960
<v Speaker 2>we're not passing much judgment on it depending on the topic,

0:36:14.239 --> 0:36:16.040
<v Speaker 2>but for the most part, we don't really pass too

0:36:16.120 --> 0:36:18.880
<v Speaker 2>much judgment on it, and I think that that allows

0:36:18.960 --> 0:36:20.360
<v Speaker 2>us to talk about anything.

0:36:20.480 --> 0:36:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and as far as taking it home, if we

0:36:23.280 --> 0:36:25.640
<v Speaker 1>do something that's a big bummer that it really impacts me,

0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:28.680
<v Speaker 1>it'll bump me out for sure. Yeah. But just like

0:36:28.719 --> 0:36:32.120
<v Speaker 1>anything else, I think knowledge is key to the more

0:36:32.120 --> 0:36:35.120
<v Speaker 1>you know about something, the less scared you might be

0:36:35.160 --> 0:36:35.399
<v Speaker 1>a bit.

0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you just go work it out, you know.

0:36:38.640 --> 0:36:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Good answer.

0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a great answer to you too. If you

0:36:42.200 --> 0:36:44.560
<v Speaker 2>want to get in touch with Chuck or Me or

0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Jerry or anybody who we could conceivably pass a message

0:36:48.880 --> 0:36:53.280
<v Speaker 2>along too, right, Yeah, you can send us an email

0:36:53.280 --> 0:36:56.240
<v Speaker 2>to Stuff podcast that House, Stuffworks dot com and as always,

0:36:56.320 --> 0:36:58.640
<v Speaker 2>joined us at our home on the web, Stuff Youshould

0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Know dot com Radio.

0:37:02.080 --> 0:37:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:37:05.080 --> 0:37:09.239
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts Myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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