WEBVTT - Broken Dreams in Elk Camp with Ben O'Brien & Joe Ferronato 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.160 You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:06.560 you by Savage Arms. In the new one ten Ultra 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:10.080 light at about six pounds, The one tent Ultra Light 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:13.800 is designed to combat elevation and the elements while maintaining 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.840 the performance of a factory blueprinted Savage one tent action. 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.320 The carbon fiber wraps, stainless steil barrel makes it durable 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:26.880 and lightweight. The rifle comes equipped with the Savage ACUEFETE technology, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:28.880 so that means it's adjustable, and it comes in a 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.360 variety of calibers, the three O eight, the two seventy 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:36.599 twenty eight nozzler, the eight actually improved, the thirty at 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.440 six and much more. If you want to find out 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.639 more information about the one ten Ultra Light, visit Savage 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:52.199 arms dot com. My name is Claye Nukeleman. I'm the 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:56.120 host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.600 your host into the world of hunting the icon of 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:05.920 the American Wilderness. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation. We 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.640 will also bring you into some of the wildest country 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:18.520 on the planet chasing barn. We're up in northeast Montana 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.280 this week and we're at elk camp. We've been chasing 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:26.039 out our legs are tired. But at the end of 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.920 the week, we sat down with Ben O'Brien from Meat 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:36.280 Eaters Hunting Collective and Joe Ferronado from Peterson's Hunting and 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:41.120 our new friend Ryce Sue Hey and Bear John Nukam 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.000 my son and Kobe the bar Tech Morehead and we 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:48.120 have a really fun conversation about our week of elk 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.640 hunting in the Missouri breaks. We talked about some of 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.840 the tactics we used and but also just kind of 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.480 the general some general commentary on elk hunting and I 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.560 am yet to deter rman if I like elk hunting 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:06.240 or not. Um, we'll see you can see. 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It comes in almost like a 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:20.960 big salt shaker type container and is sweeter than sugar 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:23.920 and you put it on your bait. They've got all 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:25.840 They've got a whole lot of commercial sense. If you're 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.320 baiting bears, that makes sea rows sense to not use 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.080 commercial sense. And I'm not just saying that. I've been 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:35.359 using Northwoods Bear products for many, many years. It's gonna 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:39.000 make your baits be more effective, draw in more bears, 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.640 and that's the key to success when baiting bears. More 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.640 bears the better, and you're gonna get them there from scent. 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:52.440 Check out our buddies at Northwoods Bear Products. I hold 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:59.839 in my right hand, Broken Dreams. I've got a you'd 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.680 all this whale tale of an elk corn? Is that right? 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:08.920 YEA well described that, Joe. It is the beautiful top 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:13.200 point of what I would assume is a six point 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:17.039 bull with the six point and then that main beam 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.080 just tails out. Now is that the main beam or 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.200 is that the main beam? You know, I was holding 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.839 it earlier trying to determine which one. I would guess 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:26.320 that this is the main beam just because of the 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.240 waving nous of it, and it kind of hooks looks 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:31.280 back in and then this is your point coming off. 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:35.320 So this is the this is the back section of 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.040 an elk? Canitler and Bear and uh and I'm gonna 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.479 get to the introductions of who is all here, But 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:44.400 I don't want anyone to be confused about what's happened 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:49.000 the last seven days. Broken dreams boys, Now Bear and 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:53.599 I found this. This was where some elk we're presumably fighting, 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.719 broke off. This is fresh and Superho brought this home 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.039 just the other day. But now we're in Montana. We're 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:04.760 in the Missouri Breaks of Montana, and uh, hey, it 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:09.960 is awesome to have all you guys. I've got Ben O'Brien, um, Ben, 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:12.599 We've we've known each other for a couple of years, 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:14.839 I guess, but this is first time we've really spent 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:19.480 a lot of time together. And uh, it's been we've well, 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:21.480 we've been in camp now for for I guess you've 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.440 been here for four or five days. We've we've been 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:28.400 here for seven seven days. Yeah. So Ben O'Brien and 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.040 a lot of everybody would know Ben from the Hunting Collective, 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.520 Um Colby, the bar Tech more head, he's always back there. Yeah, 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:37.919 I didn't know his name. The nickname was the bear Tech. Yeah, 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:45.479 like the people named him that. I was thinking Bear Greaser, 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:51.520 but bear tech Tech. And then we've got Bryce name 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.720 so Bryce. Uh, I should introduce Joe before I interest you, 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:02.080 because I know you because of Joe. But now Bryce Sue, Hey, 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.479 we we gotta start off with this joke. So well, 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:07.920 hold on you, we're coming to last. I got Joe 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.320 Ferronado here to my right. Joe, this is Joe's camp. 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.000 Joe is the one that hooked it, told us all 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:20.520 kind of where to put in the hold us up 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:24.640 in the Missouri breaks. No. Um, So Joe, you worked 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.280 for Peterson's Hunting. That's a new job for you. This 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:29.200 is a new job. Used to work with old Ben 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:33.440 on Brian. Yeah, we're now foes. We were friends. That's 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.400 why we're sitting across from you. Yeah, so you're the 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.400 what do you do for Peterson's from the associate editor 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:43.040 Associe that Peterson's Honey magazine. Awesome, we may come back 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:45.800 to that the it's a good thing to come. So 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.239 I we're still an introductions here. So I knew Bryce. 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:51.960 Because of that, these guys couldn't come right away, so 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.440 Ben and Joe couldn't come. Joe just said, Hey, my 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.760 buddy Bryce is coming. He's gonna be there Tuesday. Here's 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:02.600 the last name, just my buddy Bryce. And then so 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:07.120 he he gives you my phone number. I think I 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:11.400 get a message from just random phone number and it's like, hey, 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:13.360 when you coming into camp. And so we just start 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.160 communicating like we're just like like we've known each other forever. 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.800 Then we meet up at camp like way out in 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.800 the middle of nowhere, and for like two full days 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.960 we're just buddying around and uh, and Bryce is a 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.400 way more experienced el hunter than me and Colby and Bear, 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.559 and he's a good elk hunter and uh, I mean 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.280 he's he's got a game plan, he's tell us what 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:40.319 he thinks we should do. All very much appreciated stuff. 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:45.560 And uh, at one point we were moving Camp on 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:49.640 Bryce's suggestion, and Colby said, Clay, we don't even know 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:55.679 Bryce's name. We're doing everything he says, which turned out 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:58.960 to be great. Bryce. So Bryce sue Hey say hey, 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:05.000 say hi Bryce. Now you're a you're a physicians assistant 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.080 in Bozeman, Montema. I am working at the Urgent Karen Town. Yeah, 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.880 yeah awesome and the houndsman, I am yep, yeah, newer 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:14.600 into that, but it's been a lot of fun, uh, 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:20.199 chasing cats and running down dogs right on, right on? Well, 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:26.200 Ben uh described wait wait, wait, don't forget sorry Buddy 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:31.000 Bear John Newcomb say hello, Hello, Bear is my fourteen 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:35.160 year old son. He uh he got to skip week 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.480 and a half of school to uh to come down here. 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.840 We Uh. He had to guarantee me that he was 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:46.320 gonna be very diligent in his studies to get caught 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:50.160 up in stuff. So he guaranteed me he could do that, 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:52.000 so we let him come. He's kind of been the 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.800 camp assistant. He's a good hand on mules. He's good 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.440 at just doing what you tell him. It doesn't cause 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.640 much trouble. So, yeah, this is your first time on 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:06.319 the podcast, though, No, we Turkey Camp Turkey camp in 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:11.560 last year. Okay, yeah, you've been on here a bunch. Yeah, 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.160 that's true. He made his own knife, he said, with 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:18.200 the grandfather showed it to me. Yeah, he's a handy boy. 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:19.840 I know a lot of thirty year old men that 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.760 have made a knife in their lives. Yeah. Yeah, we've 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:24.679 got a cool We've got a cool grandpa too. He's 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:30.640 a knife maker. Very cool. But um, Ben, we mean 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:35.800 you've been hunting together some the last couple of days. Uh. 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.439 You did the same thing to me earlier today, described 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.079 kind of the Missouri breaks and kind of the hunting 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.480 because what I didn't know was like, is this a 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:49.960 good area? Is this an average area? Is this a yeah, 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.959 that's terrible, this particular area no one should ever come. 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:57.320 But the breaks, actually that's true. They only seven by 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.880 seven s. Yeah, apparently there's only I haven't seen a raghorn. Yeah, 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.240 it's only the giant elk. But now it's like like 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.120 you set on my podcast a little bit ago that 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.760 we recorded, it's broken country. You know, we were used 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:13.360 to big headwalls and canyons and um big timber and 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.320 where we're we're at Bozeman there in southeast Montana and 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.800 this is this country is broken. It has seems it 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.200 has like islands of good elk country. I mean, look 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:23.600 into this landscape and there'll be a sagebrush sea and 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.439 then a little creek bottom and then you'll have some 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:29.840 ridges that look that have fingers. You know, we said earlier, 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:31.880 if you hold your hand out, just hold your hand down, 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.720 point it south. If you if you spread your fingers out, 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:36.520 you can kind of picture a lot of what you're 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:38.680 doing here. Your if your arm is the ridge, you 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.240 walk across the ridge, then each one of your fingers 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.320 is a little finger ridge that goes down into a drainage. 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.319 And that's a lot of the country that you are 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:50.280 hunting here. And um, while it's a good elk country, 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:54.360 it just seems to have pockets or little areas that 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.079 seem to be a good elk country in what can 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.280 be huge canyon walls and we've seen some if it's 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.280 real open, but then there's a lot of these, uh 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:06.520 there there'll be small pockets of timber. Yeah. Yeah, And 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:08.400 the timber is what the tracks and the cover the 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:10.520 you know, their edge animals like toy or anything else, 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.720 that's what attracts them for betting and for just general uh, 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.640 living quarters and and and that's what this is. And 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.400 you're you're oftentimes up on a high point glass and 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.640 and or probably more often just walking these spine of 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:26.960 these ridges, top of these ridges and walking down the 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.360 fingers and trying to locate elk, sometimes down in the drainages, 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:35.760 sometimes off across. But today's September twenty, which would Joe, 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:41.240 would that be like classic elk rut bugle time? I mean, 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.880 I mean it changes everywhere you go, right, like different 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.559 elk and different parts of the world are gonna or 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.640 country we'll we'll run at different times. But according to 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.080 what I've heard out here, this is super late for 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:55.840 this year, Like for them not to be reading this 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:57.880 would be kind of like the tail end of of 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:02.320 the peak rut right now. Um, you know last week 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.760 was supposed to be the time type of thing, but 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.120 but it hasn't been, hasn't been, hasn't been at all. 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.440 I mean we've definitely heard some bugles, definitely seen some 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.480 bulls running around, but it hasn't seemed like there's been 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.320 a lot of hot cows and there haven't been you know, 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.560 all those bulls running around crazy like there you know, 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.240 the other day from our camp. Before we left, we 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.160 heard a lot of elk bugles. If you had told 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.839 me that, if you had said, Clay, from your camp, 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.200 you're gonna be able to hear elk bugle, I would 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.439 have just been like, give us a couple of days, 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.560 and well, I haven't killed and I've never killed an 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:42.679 elk before, so that's pretty bold of me to think that. 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:44.560 But that's what I would have thought. I just would 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:46.800 have thought, if they're if we're hearing the bugle and 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.920 they're that close to us, this is something that we 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:55.240 can attain. But why haven't we been able to kill one? 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:58.520 Because because we don't have any of those dumb rag 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.800 corns are only big seven by seven that they're super smart, 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.360 and I'm good at missing those big seven, but you 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:07.480 did miss one the second day, second day just under him, 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:12.079 biggest bull I've ever seen. Uh. But it just has 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.240 to do with the country we're hunting, the way everything 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.040 so broken, and this timber you're never going to see 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.360 them bedded in it because they go to these these 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.040 timbered up areas that are super dark, have great thermal cover. 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.600 It's really comfortable for them, and you know you're never 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.640 gonna see them when they're betted, So you have really, 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:34.240 um like a narrow window of opportunity when they're moving 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:38.480 from water to betting areas to feeding areas, things like that. 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.960 And since there aren't these bulls just Roman hills going 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.200 crazy looking for cows right now, it's a little bit 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.120 harder to get on them now. So that's what you 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.560 would be taking advantage of, because i mean, where you 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.600 are from ben it's like almost timber m a right 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.720 or is it pretty there's meadow when you're up on 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:58.800 the when you're up in the high country, it's it's 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.480 mostly timber. You know, it's the same game elk moving 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.320 from water to feed and you're trying to capitalize on 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.400 the elk ra where these elk or yeah, this is 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.040 no different. It is very much activity. It's very much 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.320 no different than white tails, I mean, and it's in 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.120 the description of kind of how it sets up because 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.240 they're corepuscular, right, they move at dawn and dusk. With 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:21.480 white tails in the early season, you're you're hunting them 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:23.960 bed to feed, feed to bed, bed defeat, right, you're 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:25.920 cutting them off. You're trying to be in a place 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:27.960 where they want to be, right by the food or 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.360 by the bedding, generally by the food. And then when 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:31.960 the rut comes in, you just need to be in 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.080 the woods and being a travel corridor generally worked those 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.240 are going to hang out or something like that. It's 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.960 not so dissimilar here, although elk you know, really treat 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:42.720 these mountain a lot differently than a white tail treat 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.240 you know, somebody's farm in the Midwest, but you are 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.240 hunting them in the early season. Bed feed, feed to 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.040 bed and you're trying to get to a wallow. You're 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.760 trying to understand where they're moving. And early you know, 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:56.520 this is what three weeks into the season and the 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.480 early season they're not as receptive to calling, but you 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:01.600 still call anyway to locate him to fare Ou where 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.360 the r and see if you can get one to play. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.000 And that's where the raghorns come in. You just need 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:09.080 one silly raghorn, just like one fired up Tom if 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:11.960 your turkey hunt. Same same idea. But then when the 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:13.760 ruck comes in, you've got to be out here, and 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:15.240 you gotta be vocal, and you gotta be on the 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.400 mountain putting boots is many places you possibly can What 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.240 do you what do you think about these guys that 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.160 tell us that you can't call elk out here, like 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.680 I've heard that, Moll, I've heard that from half of them. 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.120 They say that everywhere though, No, no, that's I mean 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.240 they say that in Colorado, where there's a hunter on 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.440 every ridge. Literally, Joe's first day out, he called in 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.240 a six by six to the yards. Just had a 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.520 tree in the way, and that bowl was no had 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.000 no cows with it by itself. He came in pretty hot. 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:47.480 Yeah the way, how far did he come from? We 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.040 just heard crashing from the bottom of I'm guessing he 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.480 was bedded in that north face and timber, and he 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:58.000 came in. We were we were going after seven by 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.360 seven with six house who had just crossed that ridge. 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:04.640 We didn't know we crossed the ridge yet we still 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.200 thought he was in the bottom. And then Joe bugled 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.080 and he we heard crashing in the timber. Assuming it 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:13.440 was that that seven with cows, and it was a 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.720 loan six who was probably bigger than that seven. He 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.680 was really big. But like the whole thought process there 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.600 with with calling, I think you'll you'll hear a lot 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.520 of people say you can't call elk concertain places I 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.639 think it's a lot to do with not knowing proper 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.239 calling techniques and stuff, because if you get the right 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.560 calls and you talk like you're in Elk, like you're 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.280 you're gonna be able to call him pretty much wherever 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:38.760 you are. People say calling is less effective out here, 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.040 um because lots of the places you're hunting in the brakes, 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:46.320 I would presume, are more open, and the visual cues 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.240 of elk, like you're never gonna call a big bowl 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.760 across an open meadow just because he can't see the 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:53.639 cow making the noise of the bull making the noise, 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:55.520 and he's gonna be like, oh that's weird and walk 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.000 the other way. Um. But like out here, when we 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.600 when we were pursuing seven by seven, like we ran 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:03.680 up the ridge. We went up as fast as we could. 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:05.280 We were trying to bulldog him and get in his 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:08.320 grill with his cows, scream at him like I'm a 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:09.879 big young your bowl. It's gonna steal his cows and 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:14.200 he's gonna come into face off. And what happened there 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.479 is like we we already missed him, Like he already 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.040 got over the ridge, but I still called, assuming he 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.120 was below us. And then that other big six by 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.679 six was like, you know, right in there, and we 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.560 got pretty lucky in that circumstance. But he came crashing 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.639 right into that call, and if the wind had in 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.359 the switch, that bowl would have been dead. That's the 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.040 other thing out here is, you know, we say there's 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.840 just a bunch of finger ridges, but every ridge has 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.680 so many different pockets and in different terrain, and so 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.720 on the same ridge, you might have wind work in 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:49.119 five different directions and it's not that it's swirling, but 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.040 ten yards down the ridge has its own thermal pattern 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.560 because the ridge switches directions learning the thermal patterns and 0:18:55.600 --> 0:19:00.359 here stuff. I don't as much as you look at 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.320 the typographical map and be like it's gonna go there. Yeah, 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.440 you just think you could get lucky. As our friend 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.439 Chase Dirt and said, you just gotta charge through the 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.840 bad wind into the good wind. And that's not a 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.280 not a bad strategy here. I mean, it just it is. 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.679 It's it's it's got its own idiosyncrasies in the way 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:18.480 that you would haunt a place like this. I think 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.600 people are right. It is a visual These elk might 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.200 be more visual creatures because they can see more because 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:25.960 they have that ability, and they hang out and it's 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.960 more sparse sparsely timbered an open country. But that doesn't 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.600 I mean, that doesn't that doesn't eliminate calling. It just 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.000 makes it a little bit of a different dynamic. And 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.119 at the same time, I don't think, I don't know, 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.119 I don't know how many people hunt the breaks. We 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:42.679 haven't seen that many hunters in the last three days. 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.399 But elk in accessible places like the one we're in 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.720 get hunted a lot anyway. No matter where they are 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:51.560 in the state of Montana or any state Colorado, Wyoming, 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:55.400 they're gonna get hunted in accessible places. So I get 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:57.600 what folks are saying that these elk just are a 0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:59.560 little bit different, and they do seem to be different 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.440 than other but I've encountering the way that they move 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.399 and act. But you know, calling is a that's a 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.400 hunter hunter versus elk thing. Always, if the elks receptive, 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:11.199 the hunters good a calling make it work. I think 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:12.800 a lot of people might be saying you can't call 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.280 out here too, saying like leave the hootie mom at home, 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:18.800 that you can't come out and blow on on any 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.479 sort of calling. They just come running, like in some 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:25.680 places where elk are just conditioned. That's where I want 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:29.400 to go. You know, I haven't found it, but I've 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:32.600 seen it on TV. Joe is, uh, what's your favorite 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.360 bow hunt? I mean, are you is elk cutting your 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:39.160 favorite thing? It's definitely one of my favorites. I mean, 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:42.879 I would take all of September off if I could 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:48.240 every year. Um, what's your favorite? Huh? My favorite favorite hunt? 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:54.200 It's so hard. My favorite species, if I've already specs 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:56.640 for the rest of my life, would be big more cheap. 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.159 Have you ever had a big horn cheap? I haven't, 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:01.679 but I want to. Okay, but that is definitely not 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.080 a favorite. I'm just kidding. I don't. I don't know 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:08.480 if I would like it. The allure of hunting big 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:13.480 horn sheep just is Yeah, we saw two gry bighorn rams. 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.120 This is worth everything just to seem like I would 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:18.360 down here a thousand times. Yeah, I said, Man, I've 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:22.119 been in camp where sheep hunting occurred, and I've been 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:23.919 around when other people are sheep hunting, and it just 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:27.399 seemed it doesn't get me that way. It seems boring 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.600 to me. Sheep seemed compared to a giant forest horse 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:32.800 that's run around bugle and trying to knock stuff over. 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.280 Sheep seemed like a docile, bedded creature that are stuck 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:38.160 up high in the mountains. It can't get down here. 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.840 You're you're leaning into what I'm trying to get to, 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:44.159 which is I haven't decided if I like elk cutting 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:50.520 or not. I'm it's frustrated. It's it's you know, there's 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:54.040 some hunts that if you if you play your game right, 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:58.240 which is a whole lot of work you you have. 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.360 It's like, if you do these things, you will be successful. 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:03.960 And now those things might be really really hard. Elk 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:06.000 cutting has that same thing. If you do these things, 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:11.399 you'll be successful. But those things are are so variable 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.840 and are so difficult if you don't live in elk country. 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.159 And Ben and I've been talking about kind of the 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.800 transient hunter, like it's really hard to go somewhere for 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:25.000