WEBVTT - How Hoarding Works 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.600 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:13.800 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:16.720 There's childs to have you, Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there, 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:23.000 and here we are doing Stuff you Should Know about hoarding. Yeah, 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:27.720 Jerry's over there under a stack of pizza boxes and newspapers. Yes, 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.960 but Jerry proudly displays them to anybody who comes into 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.640 the office and makes eye contact with her, which makes 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.120 her a collector of those things. A big difference. Well, yeah, 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.240 I didn't save your hoarder. She's a pizza box collector, 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:44.879 I got you. She likes those greasy after stains. Yes, 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:48.400 supposedly that prevents you from recycling pizza boxes. I think 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.560 we talked about it in one of our episodes before, 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:52.839 but I think that that's a p s A that 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.720 bears repeating. Yeah, I've never got a final answer on that, 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.319 So I throw mine in the recycling anyway. I don't 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:01.200 know if that comes up the works or not. Is 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:04.040 there a spectrum or anything like that, or you're like, oh, 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.920 this one is just so obviously loaded with cheese um 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:11.920 that I I can't possibly recycle this. Well, mine are 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.920 always loaded because I specifically request that the pizza be 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.120 delivered face down in the box. It's a little weird, 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.080 but I like it that way. It's the way to 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:23.360 do it, for sure, upside down pizza. Actually, you know 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:26.880 what I should do is just tear the box in 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.640 in half and at least recycle the top. That I 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:33.720 think you may have just solved the real problem. Yeah, alright, 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:37.640 I think we do need to do a follow up 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.080 recycling episode because I would imagine it's probably advanced by 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.440 leaps and bounds since we last discussed it. Yeah, and 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.480 here in my area of Atlanta, they quit um taking 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:52.160 glass really a few months ago. Too heavy, not enough payoff. 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.720 I think it was just yeah, and and or word 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.880 got out that they weren't even recycling it, so um sin. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.000 Then they have set up places around Atlanta, one specifically 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:06.520 at the Edgewood Target parking You know, there's a bunch 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:08.880 stuff there, But in the Target parking lot, they have 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:12.520 these huge glass recyclers there. And I meet up with 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.639 the fellow Whinos about once every two weeks. We all 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:20.280 shamefully toss in, you know, dozens of bottles of empty wine, 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.000 so much dead yellow tail. Yeah, and we now I 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:27.280 don't think that stuff. Uh, but we just we It's nice. 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:32.400 It's sort of like a wine meeting so much dead 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.400 Paul Masson, like a wine clatch. I'm like, oh, what 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:38.360 are you throwing away there? How have you gotten any 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:42.280 recommendations from those chance encounters? It's literally happened where we're 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.359 you know, I would meet a fellow whine. Now we're 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:47.920 thrown away tons of bottles, and then we decide to 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.200 own our shame and be like, hey, this one was 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.960 pretty good by the way, and started a conversation, and 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.600 then I get maced. Yeah you take you take the 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:59.720 bollow and go huh night train? Haven't heard of this one? Right? Okay, 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:02.200 that try? And I like the handy grip of the bottle. 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:04.480 I never tried night train. Did you have that, dude? 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.239 It's it's a nightmare, is what it is. Yeah. I 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.200 would drink the like you don't even sober up before 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.480 you get a crushing headache from it. It comes with 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:18.080 a headache, That's what says. Um. What would I drink? Um? 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.280 Mad dog mm hmm, Which I mean there's a reason 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.600 they are sold right next to each other. Yeah, can 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:28.120 you even call those wine? No it's not wine. It's 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.880 wine like Prudo gets wine like malt liquor is beer. 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:39.520 It's related, but it's drinking. Sure. Remember the Nikey's big mouths. Yeah, 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.480 and cold forty five came in like gigantic like bottles. 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.640 That was one of the biggest attractions of it. You know, Yeah, 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.480 it was expensive, man, that would that was our jam 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.160 for a little while. I never got into this, I 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:53.480 know what you're talking about. Didn't they have like the 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:56.840 like a question or a trivia thing or something on 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:59.840 the underside of it, the bottle, the lid, I don't know. Well, 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.520 there were a little green hand grenade bottles, little barrels 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:08.200 and uh, I don't know which came first or after 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.240 it was either. I guess they switched to just the 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:17.520 regular like uh, Coca Cola style twist off cap metal 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:19.880 twist off, and I think they might. I think they 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.320 did have something underneath it. Act there was something under there. 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:24.359 Maybe it was like a poker game or a card 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:28.920 game or you've just won Liberal Disease. But before that 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.240 then I think they had these really unique poll tabs 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.040 because it was a big fat mouth Mickey's. That's why 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.840 they called it that Mickey's big mouth, so they had 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:42.120 to have a very unique UM bottle cap poll cap 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.840 that was just sort of interesting. Nice Back in the day, man, 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:48.640 back in the day when I was I'm not gonna 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:54.440 wrap now, and we're now refined with our beverage consumption. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.039 we are. I only drink cold forty five out of 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.520 a chill glass. Now. I got a nice whiskey bar 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.159 set up at UM that's separate from the regular bar. 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:08.520 Oh wow, with just like rise and bourbons and scotches 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:14.440 and Irish and little additional I've gotten out to where 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.640 I will put in little drops of little tinctures and 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.640 shrubs and things. Oh yeah, occasionally. Shrubs are great. I 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.560 made my own ones, and it's actually worth the effort. Yeah. 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:27.760 My buddy Eddie, you know Eddie, he makes his own. 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:30.919 He actually does it in the in the bottle, but 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.480 he will he'll do like a cherry bourbon or an 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:38.679 apple like confused bourbon. Yeah. Those shrubs though, man, uh, 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.320 it's actually not very hard and they last forever because 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.560 what you're doing is basically I don't know if it's 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.440 fermenting or pickling or something, but you're doing something to 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.840 the fruit that you're mastrating with the sugar and it 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:53.240 just lasts forever, and it's just such a nice little 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.640 tangy pop. It's like kim she you gotta bury it 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.120 in your yard for kind of it's close to that. Actually, 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.919 it's it's like the Yankee version of kim chi, but 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.840 with fruit and you put it in your booze. Well, 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.119 this is all very hoardy, like, well, hold on, even 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.480 before we get into hoarding, we still have another tangent 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:18.440 to go on our earl buds. Yeah, yeah, let's let's 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:26.760 announce it. Okay, So Caroline Irvin and Kristen Conger seriously, well, 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.000 I know it was it was Conger, but she's been 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:33.400 since gotten married. She took her husband's last name, remember, No, 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.280 of course, Kristen Conger, No, I don't know. Something tells 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.600 me Conger did not take his last name, right right. 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:40.559 I could see that, because then I would no longer 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:42.679 be able to call her Congs, which I know she loved. 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.479 That's true, And she was probably there the SO Security 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.440 administrations and thinking I can't do this, What about Chuck? 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.599 She thought of that? At any rate, Caroline and Kristen, 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.000 the former host of um Stuff, Mom never told You, 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.360 which is now hosted by our pals um Emily and Bridget. 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.880 That's right, right, So Kristen and Caroline went off on 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:07.360 their own and they have now started a new podcast 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:10.840 and this is the this is the great announcement here 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.320 on stuff you should know. That's right. It's called Unladylike 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.520 and uh I have I've heard the trailer, so it 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.360 sounds great and anything they're gonna do is gonna be great. 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.640 They're just they're pros. They really like. Uh. I know, 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.920 stuff Mom Never Told You was started with Molly and Conger, 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.880 but when Caroline came along, it really just found its 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:33.880 true voice. No offense Molly and U. She just trashed 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.920 her home office. Uh, it's just a great show. And 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.400 Unladylike is is gonna be awesome and and I believe 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.080 it's got a bit of a different flavor with interviews 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.800 and stuff like that, but it is definitely going to 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:49.440 be dealing with uh feminism and women's issues and oh yeah, 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.880 advocacy and uh, their their logo is great. It's a 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:57.160 big middle finger, which is just so them. Yep. So 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.480 they have a site up, but I think you can 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:01.920 get their guest anywhere you get podcasts. That's kind of 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.680 how it works. But they have a site as well 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:09.520 called un lady like dot ceo super British not dot 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:13.120 com dot ceo. Okay, that's right, so best of luck, ladies. 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:15.520 I'm sure it'll be great. And uh, you were always 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:19.120 on our minds and in our hearts, so nice of you. 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.200 Good luck Caroline and Kristen. It's gonna be great. Now, 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.960 can we hoard? Yes? Long last, well, let's take a 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:30.360 commercial break show. Can you imagine Mollywood trash her home 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:36.280 office again? So we're talking hoarding today. Believe it or not, everybody, 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:42.400 um and I basically everyone is fairly well aware of 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.840 hoarding thanks to a couple of high profile UM reality 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:51.959 TV shows about hoarders and hoarding UM. And then there 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:56.840 have also been appearances of hoarders in literature. So even 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.520 before it kind of became like part of the cultural 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.520 aware us, it was also already kind of there, like 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.199 everybody thought, you know, there's some guy out there who 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.280 has a house full of something that he picked up 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.640 on the side of the road and his it's just 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.679 accumulated and he can barely get around his house. Like 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:17.560 that was there before. But thanks to those TV shows, 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:21.880 which is actually which actually sprung out of the first 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:26.600 real research on hoarding as its own disorder um from 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:31.680 the early nineteen nineties by a Smith College psychology professor 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.800 named David o'frost and then two of his students, Rachel 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:39.480 Gross and Tamara hardel Um. Those three people together actually 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:44.720 form the basis of our knowledge about hoarding the disorder. 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.440 They took it out of the cultural reference, they took 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.440 it out of the realm of Freud and and they 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.000 got it ultimately all the way up into the d 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.760 s M. Five and two thousand thirteen, which is about 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.319 the best you can hope for, is an undergrad psychology student. Yeah, 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:04.600 you get your d SIM tattoo mm to two yep uh. 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:06.800 And I believe those shows. One was called Hoarders and 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:11.079 one was called Jerry's Pizza Box Collection. No, Jerry's a collector. 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.240 Well it was Jerry's Pizza Box Collection, Colin, I'm not 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.559 a hoarder, al right. It was a little a little mouthy, 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.160 little wordy. The log line was, if you're looking for 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:25.280 a show about a hoarder, keep looking. But if you 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:32.320 like pizza boxes and he doesn't speak eight seven, central'd 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.640 be very David Lyncheon. Just this mute woman walking around, 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.079 blackout bar over most of her face everywhere. She would 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.559 be great. Um, all right, so we'll go ahead and 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.480 get it going with a stat here. Back in the day, 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:52.280 I was statman, remember that, of course, So I'm gonna 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.520 reprise that role. Okay, do you have a cape still? Oh? Yeah, 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.599 it's on see. Oh yeah, I see it. Probably I 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:00.720 couldn't see it. You weren't turning the right way. Yeah. 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.920 Uh well, it's a it's a thin cape for broadfella. 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.320 Uh So estimates, no one really knows, because, like you said, 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:12.720 it's very recently that it's being recognized as its own 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.719 disease um and not a symptom of another thing, even 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.160 though it is, as we will see later, very much 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:22.360 co morbid with other other issues and mental illnesses. But 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:25.920 despite the fact that we don't know a ton about 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.920 the stats, there are estimates to say anywhere from point 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:33.680 four percent two as many as five percent of high 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:38.120 Is this humans or humans? Americans? Humans? Ah yeah, I 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:42.040 think the general population, which that would make its prevalence 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:47.079 higher than schizophrenia. Oh wow, yeah, which I actually kind 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.280 of believe if I stop and think about it. Well, 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.920 the thing is, though you don't this is and we're 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:55.760 going to talk about all this stuff, but it's not 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.800 often the kind of thing that presents itself out in 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.640 public because the people are hiding in their houses full 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.000 of stuff. No. No, And one of the things, one 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.840 of the early misconceptions about hoarders that we'll see is 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:11.880 that it was mostly older people who were hoarding. But um, 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:13.720 it turns out that they're the ones who get thrust 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:19.240 into the limelight because it's a progressive chronic disease exactly. 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:23.040 So by the time the news media becomes aware of 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.800 this and drags these pour people out into the limelight, um, 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:30.600 their their hoard has gotten very big and they have aged. 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:35.920 So that's why we initially thought that just older people 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.960 were hoarders. It turns out it actually starts far earlier 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.800 in life. Typically. Yeah, like a show about a twelve 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:46.600 year old with one corner of their room too messy. Yeah, 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.120 just looking at it like this is gonna be huge 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.160 one day, and we're joking here, but this is a 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:56.000 serious mental illness. But we we joke about all kinds 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:57.959 of things. So I don't want anyone to get upset 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.120 about things like that. No, no. If you're new to 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:06.400 the podcast, go listen to the comas episode. Alright, so 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.960 some of the symptoms of hoarding. Um, and we're we're 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.640 gonna get into also in a bit to the I 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.800 guess myths and separating those two is really important because 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.600 it's very easy for someone to very dismissively say, oh, 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.400 they're a hoarder because they have a lot of stuff. Um, 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.719 and my family, my in laws, well, let me let 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:32.760 Steve off the hook, specifically my mother in law, my 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.680 grandmother in law, Mary, the eldest general of the stuff 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:42.280 you should know Army and uh, my aunt Sue, Sharon, 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.120 Sue and Mary. They have a lot of stuff and 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.640 we call it the disease sort of as a joke. Um, 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.160 but they're well, they're not hoarders at all, but they 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:53.800 got a lot of stuff they have a hard time 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.440 throwing away, you know, the stuff that they had that 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.319 they think someone in the family might want. I think 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.400 that stuff. That's that's pretty typical. A lot of people 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.840 are like that. And a lot of people have a 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:09.840 basement room with a lot of junk in it out 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.720 of being too busy or lazy, or maybe just a 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:15.880 bit of the disease where you just like I can't 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:17.560 bear to part with it even though I really should, 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.360 But that is not hoarding. Well, so my question would be, 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:26.080 then have you ever seen them and do you feel 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:30.320 like they have the ability to clear out like the 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:35.120 attic or donate some of the stuff like you can't 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.160 they have the ability to part with the stuff. There 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.640 have been pushes at various times, like when they're moving 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:43.560 and stuff like that. Of course it's a good time 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.400 to do that. Um, it is always a bit of 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.760 a painful experience. But I think, like I said, everyone's 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.440 got a little not everyone. Some people are so unsentimental 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.960 that they'll just back the dumpster up and just empty 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.200 their house into it and say I'll get a new 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:03.720 drunk But um, it's a good way to move, yeah, exactly, 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.360 but they it is a little bit of a hard time. 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:12.200 And very famously either um, Charlie there Emily's grandpa who 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:17.080 who left us on our wedding day. Um, he famously 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:22.200 passed away with like you know, buckets have bent rusty nails. 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.320 But he was not a hoarder. He was legitimately one 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.040 of those guys who was like I can straighten these 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.480 and reuse them one day. And he believed in the 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.520 value of just not throwing everything away, which is great. 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:35.720 So let me ask you this though he would he 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.560 would say kind of with pride, like, look at all 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.760 these awesome nails that I'm not wasting, you chump, No, 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.800 not at all. It was just um, was he ashamed 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:46.960 of his bucket of nails? No, he would. He would 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.040 occasionally get out a nail and straighten it and use it, 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.640 and it was just everyone in the family knew, Like 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.720 you know, Charlie, he did grow up in the Great Depression. 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.200 And as we will see that as one of the 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.880 myths that oh, all these people just grow up in 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.080 the Depression so they value things more. That is not 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:07.520 the case. There's no tie to that. But he is 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.120 one of those gentlemen who grow up in the Great Depression, 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:12.760 and and I love that attitude. We're in such a 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:17.360 disposable frame of mind. I think that that the depression 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.000 thing has kind of come back for the generation behind us, 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.800 where they value things a bit more. Good. Yeah, you know, 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:29.640 because the disposability of products and just everything. Just pulling 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:31.600 a dump strip to your back door and pushing your 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.000 stuff out as a means of moving. Yeah, we're like, 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:35.960 I'll just that thing didn't work. Well, I could probably 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:37.600 get repaired, but screw it, I'll get another one. It's 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:41.840 only twenty bucks. Things like that, Like it kind of 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.560 drives me nuts. So I'm or, oh, wait, my phone 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.000 has has a new version of my phone has just 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.080 come out. So now the company that made my phone 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.880 is remotely slowing my phone down, so I have to 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.320 throw it away and go buy another one. That's definitely 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.280 part of the problem as well. You know, it's funny. 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.280 I can tell really see Grandpa Charlie saying everybody gather 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.119 around getting a nail out of his rusty nail buckets, 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.080 straightening it and just driving it right through the webbing 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:13.000 of his hand as a party trick. That's what I 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:16.119 thought of when when you said, yeah, yeah, every once 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:17.879 a while he'd get a nail out and straighten it 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:21.080 and use it. That's what we think they know, what 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.359 were the people that he's a pinhead, people that would 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.640 drive the nail the blockhead that's what it was. Blockheads. Yeah, 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:30.400 I can't believe we did a whole podcast on that. 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.560 That shows a good one too. Um alright, so number 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:37.800 one on the symptoms though, uh is you literally have 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.639 an inability two to get rid of things and to 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.440 stop acquiring things. So you may if you go into 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.719 a hoarder's home, you may go into their closet and 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:51.560 see a wrack of clothes with tags on them because 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:53.840 they're like, oh, just this is on sale. It's such 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.320 a good deal. I feel like I just have to 0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:00.160 get it, and then it's unworn a decade later. Yes. So, 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:04.719 so the early researchers, David frosten is two students, um 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.399 Tamra Hartle and Rachel Gross. They initially I think it 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.760 was specifically Rachel Gross and David frost Sorry, but they 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:16.160 that first study that they did on hoarders, they assumed that, um, 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.040 it would be all just junk like stuff nobody could 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.120 possibly want, and they were really surprised when they toured 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.399 some of their their study participants homes and found like 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.720 stuff still in the package, like clothes, perfectly fine clothes 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.639 that had never been worn, but piles up to the 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.639 ceiling that we're now had now taken over the kitchen. 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.560 You know what I'm saying. That's the difference between being like, oh, 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:40.360 this is actually a pretty good deal. I could use 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:44.080 this someday and hoarding. And another aspect of that too 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.159 is if you're buying these clothes, sure it might be 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.600 a good bargain, but these are women's genes and you're 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.440 a man and they are there, they're they're like half 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:56.600 of your size. Yeah, you know, they'll buy clothes that 0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:00.439 don't even fit them just just because we're gonna wear 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.800 what they want. So sure, sure, but I'm saying, like, 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.000 don't even fit you, right, um, And they they have 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.680 good point, Chuck, thank you for that, but they they 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:10.919 basically won't pass up a bargain. It's one of the 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.520 ways that they might acquire something. My mom has a 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.280 little bit of that. Yeah, if you're a man and 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:18.360 you're dressed in women's clothing, that is not a symptom 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.080 of hoarding. No, no, no, And my mom doesn't have that. 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:22.719 She has a little bit of the like, oh, it's 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:24.560 such a good deal, I feel like you have to 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.560 get it. You mean, I went through an open house 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:33.439 once and I've never seen more clothing owned not just 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.760 by one person, by several families put together. But it 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.160 was just one lady's clothes and like they had built 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.480 on like an addition to their attic and their garage 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.280 top and that was just filled with clothes more close 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:49.280 than anyone could possibly wear. And we noticed that like 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.720 some of them still had the tags on. Were like, God, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.280 this lady has so many clothes. Now, looking back after 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:57.560 researching this, I'm like she definitely had a touch of 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:01.919 the hoarders disorder. I guess she had a little bit 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:04.639 of the hordes. Yeah, it didn't spill out into the 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.600 rest of her house, so either she it was just 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:11.680 a touch of it or her family was keeping it 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:15.800 in check. But there was definitely you you wouldn't believe 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:17.959 me if I if I told you have many just 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.680 sweaters and shirts and dresses this lady had. Give me 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:28.480 a number how many sweaters? Sweaters? I know you're one 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:33.280 of your superpowers of sweater guestimating right, sweaters and chili beans. 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:37.280 I would say, just from what we saw, she easily 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:41.400 had two hundreds something sweaters easily. And those were just 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:46.320 the sweaters. Man, that's not including like tops, blouses, dresses. 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:51.119 She had so many clothes. Yeah, my friend Ryan, I 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:54.720 won't say his last name, he uh, his dad very 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.600 famously had ah and I don't know, you know what 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.119 I asked him last time I saw him, and I 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:02.879 can't remember the answer now, but at one point his 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:08.639 dad had like warehouses with stuff, because he's like a 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:10.639 dream hoarder. Yeah, but I don't know if it was 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.240 hoarding either, because as you will see there as we 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.720 go on, there are very specific definitions, and just because 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.600 you want warehouses full of stuff doesn't necessarily mean you're 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.280 a hoarder, you know. Yeah, what was his stuff? I 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:28.159 don't know, huh. I'll find out and follow up. But 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:30.879 getting back to the inability to stop acquiring, one of 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.119 the key points about not getting rid of stuff is 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.760 they're holding onto things with no value at all, like 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:41.479 even sentimental value, Like when you have stacks and stacks 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:46.280 of newspapers and magazines for for decades and decades. Those 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:51.199 don't hold sentiment about sentimental value, any monetary value unless 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:53.000 you happen to have like the moon landing stuff in 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:56.919 there or something. Um, you know, it's just just like 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:00.440 literally it's junk, right, It can be and also be 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.080 stuff that, like as is actually useful and somebody would 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:06.920 want this unopened, unworn dress or something like that, right, 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:09.239 So it can go either way. But the point is 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:13.359 they can't stop acquiring stuff. They can't help themselves. That's 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:16.200 that's part one. Part two, and these things are part 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.800 and parcel with one another. Is they can't bear to 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.439 give any of it up, like you said, even if 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:25.600 it's totally useless, even if it doesn't have any actual, 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:28.560 real emotional value. But that is a big one that 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:30.600 a lot of them point to, is like they say, well, no, 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:34.800 this means a lot to me or um. Another another 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:38.760 explanation or another rationalization among hoarders is that like they're 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:41.480 they're they're just kind of stockpiling. They might need all 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:47.160 these clothes one day. They that never happens, right exactly, 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:50.920 and um. The other one I think is that they 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:55.800 use it as a reminder. Apparently there's a um there's 0:22:55.800 --> 0:23:02.160 a correlation between faulty recall or um an inaccurate memory 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:05.480 or a lack of trust in one's own memory and hoarding. 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:08.320