1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast about how 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: society has falling apart and about how to put it 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: back together again. I'm your host, Christopher Long and Today 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: and for the next few days, we're doing something a 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: bit different. We're going to take a deep dive into 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: some of the people who got us into the mess 7 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: we're in today. Now, when we've talked about our enemies 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: and It Could Happen Here, we've mostly focused on fascism, 9 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: and for good reason. But for the next few days 10 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: we're focusing on a different enemy. Don't worry, the Nazis 11 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: will show up. That enemy is neoliberalism. Neoliberalism is the 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: single most successful political movement of the twenty twenty. For centuries, 13 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: no other political movement in human history has directly controlled 14 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: so much of the globe. It is outmaneuvered, outlasted, or 15 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: simply destroyed every ideology that sought to oppose it, and 16 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: has reigned virtually unchallenged for fifty years. After exploded on 17 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: the political scene in Chile, their victory has been so 18 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: total that even the earthWhile opponents have adopted its core principles. 19 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: Margaret Thatcher famously bragged that her proudest accomplishment was creating 20 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: Tony Blair, basking in the irony that neoliberalism would be 21 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: implemented across the globe, in large part by labor and 22 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: socialist parties. Today, even erstwhile communist countries maintained so called 23 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: special economic zones with the laws of neoliberalism are allowed 24 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: to run rampant in exchange for GDP increases, and their 25 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: communist supporters in the West have come to believe that 26 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: capitalism is a far more powerful engine of economic development 27 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: and the state planning advocated by their forebearers, thus internalizing 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: the greatest principle of neoliberalism, even as they claim to 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: oppose it. All of this, of course, raises two questions, 30 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: what actually is neoliberalism and how did it come to 31 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: rule the world today. We're going to try to answer 32 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: the first question by looking back at the original neoliberals 33 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: and examining what they believed, because it's not what you think. 34 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: There are many places you can begin the story of neoliberalism. 35 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: I'm choosing to start in France in ninety Now, the 36 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties are a bad time to be a free 37 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: trade market liberal, and just to clear this up, early 38 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: liberal in the European context, which is where a lot 39 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: of the beginning of the story takes place, does not 40 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: mean the same thing as it does in the American context. 41 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: European liberalism up to this point is about free trade, markets, 42 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: individual liberty and rights, etcetera, etcetera. But it's anti state interference, 43 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: to be somewhat reductive. It's kind of closer to what 44 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: conservatism is in the US, but it's not identical. So 45 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: here that in mind. As the story goes on, dirties 46 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: saw the rise of fascism, social democracy, and communism, each 47 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: with his own form of government spending and economic planning, 48 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: which liberals absolutely detested. Now the v and thirties have 49 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: been full of liberals gathering and try to figure out 50 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: what to do next. And in ninety seven Waltrare Littman, 51 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: an American writer who would become most famous for inventing 52 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: the term Cold War, wrote a book called an Inquiry 53 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: into the Principles of the Good Society, which argue that 54 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: totalitarian is as a product of not having individual private 55 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: property at the state needs to be limited to a 56 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: ministering justice and not you know, giving people things that 57 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: they need, and so a lot of liberals read this 58 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: and go, oh cool, we should organize a conference to 59 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: talk about this book and our ideas. And the product 60 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: is a Litman colloquium. Now, a bunch of extremely important 61 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: new liberals show up at this conference, including one Friedrich 62 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: August von Hayek, Ludwig von Mises, Wilhelm rope Ki, and 63 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: Alexander Rusto, and they start talking about the need for 64 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: a new kind of liberalism to oppose communism, Kanadianism, fascism, 65 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: and what they call Manchester or Las Fair liberalism, in 66 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: which the state didn't defeat it all in political life 67 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: and let the economy run an autopilot. Now, the German 68 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: sociologist Alexander Rusto, who we're going to talk about more 69 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: in a second comes up with the term need of 70 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: liberalism to define the new set of principles that they're 71 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: trying to develop. And they think the new liberalism should 72 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: prioritize the price mechanism, some free enterprise, the system of competition, 73 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: and importantly, a strong and impartial state. Now this is 74 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: the origin of neo liberalism as a term. And it's 75 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: important to understand two things from the outset, because the 76 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: new liberals are going to spend the next fifty years 77 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: lying about this one. Near liberalism favors a strong state 78 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: to make the market work, and to new liberalism is 79 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: not the same thing as classical liberalism. Now, new liberals 80 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: essentially invented the whole I make classical liberal thing in 81 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: the fifties. But if you read the original stuff that 82 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: they wrote, if you if you go back to nineties, 83 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: if you go back to nineteen thirties, and you read 84 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: what they write, the new liberals are extremely clear that 85 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: they are not classical liberals and that in fact their 86 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: political project is different from the twentieth century nineteenth century 87 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: liberal project, in which the state is supposed to be 88 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: a night watchman and not actually interfere in the markets 89 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: at all. The New Liberals, originally before they you know, 90 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: start lying about their actual origins, reject this principle and 91 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: come to believe that in fact, a strong state is 92 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: necessary to ensure that markets work. So now you have 93 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: leading liberalism as a thing. But nothing really happens much 94 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: until after World War Two because World War to almost 95 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: everyone is just doing state economic planning, and so, you know, 96 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: all of these people rambling off to the side about how, 97 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: oh the market is the most efficient way to plan 98 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: a system. Nobody listens to them because they're fighting a 99 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: war and the way you fight wars is doing state planning. 100 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: And after World War to the situation for New liberals 101 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: is even worse because having you know, gone through the 102 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: experience of entire society is turning their entire economies and 103 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: systems into planning agencies in order to you know, mobilize 104 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: the total war effort. People after the war come back 105 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: and go, oh, hey, we can do this to other 106 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: parts of the economy. So this means that everyone, and 107 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: this is not just the communist states, this is you know, 108 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: this is Britain is doing Kanesianism. They're doing planning, they're 109 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: doing state welfare programs, and the New Deal is spreading 110 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: also across the globe. Now, in response to all of this, 111 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: Hiak and his allies do two things. The first is 112 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: found in the Chicago School of Economics, and the second 113 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 1: is to assemble the avengers of taking food from children, 114 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: the mont Pelion Society. The mont Peleion Society is the 115 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: central neoliberal institution, which is a weird thing because in 116 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,239 Speaker 1: a lot of ways it's essentially just a closeted debate. 117 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: Society intended to allow neiler Bols to work out their 118 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: political principles behind closed doors. Now, at this first meeting 119 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 1: in n a lot of the people from the Littman 120 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: Colloquium are there, but unfortunately some of the French members 121 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: of the Colloquium and some of the people from Germany 122 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: had collaborated with the Nazis, so they were out. And 123 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: this meant that Hiaka defined new people to bring in. 124 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: And the mont Peleon Society's first meeting is the first 125 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: time you actually have all three major schools of neoliberal 126 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,559 Speaker 1: thought in the same place at the same time, arguing 127 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: with each other there and they can't agree on shit. 128 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: The only thing they can actually agree on is to 129 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: look into more stuff and to get a sense of 130 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: how far away from moderate neoliberalism the arguments that are 131 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: being had at the Montpellion Society are. The Montpellion Society 132 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: has only ever once actually released a single statement stating 133 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: its principles. And this statement was the only thing that 134 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: could be agreed on at the first meeting of the 135 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: Montpellion Society. And I'm just gonna read it. This is 136 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: what they agreed to research one the analysis and explanation 137 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: of the present crisis so as to reflect its essential 138 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: moral and economic origins. Two the redefinition of the state's 139 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: functions so as to distinguish more clearly between the totalitarian 140 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: and liberal order. Three methods of re establishing the rule 141 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: of law and assuring its developments that individuals and groups 142 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: are not in a position to encroach upon the freedom 143 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: of others, and private property rights are not allowed to 144 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: become a basis of predatory power. For the possibility of 145 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: establishing minimum standards by means not inimical to initiative and 146 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: the functioning of the market. Five methods of combating the 147 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: misuse of history for the furtherance of creeds hostile to liberty. 148 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: Six the problem of creating an international order conductive to 149 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: safeguarding of peace and liberty and permitting the establishment of 150 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: harmonious international economic relations. You know, just by looking at this, 151 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: you can immediately see signs of how far things are 152 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: going to move. I mean, you know what, one of 153 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: one of the things that they're talking about is again 154 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: they're they're trying to research whether or not it's possible 155 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: to just give people things without the markets, and it's 156 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: it's it's not just the sort of left quote unquote 157 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: wing of the neoliberals who are arguing about this. Hiak In, 158 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: in probably his most famous book, The Road to Serve Them, 159 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: I mean explicitly says, yeah, you should just give people 160 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: food and housing and stuff outside of the market. And 161 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: you know, like today, if literally anyone who says this 162 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: will be accused of socialism. This is the neoliberal this 163 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: is you know, a large part of the neoliberal position 164 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: in now I've mentioned briefly that there are three schools 165 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: of neoliberalism, and we're going to spend some time looking 166 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: at them, because people have a tendency to look at 167 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: neoliberalism and assume that, oh, it's it's it's just the 168 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: Chicago School of Economics, you know, which is the the 169 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: neo classical schools, most famous members Milton Friedman. And it's 170 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: true that that Chicago school are neoliberals. But and and 171 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: this is critical, there's other intellectual schools involved in here. 172 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: And it's not just it's not just economists. Neoliberalism from 173 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: the beginning is a multi disciplinary international project. You have lawyers, 174 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: you have political scientists, you have journalists, you have philosophers, 175 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: you have anthropologists, and the product of this is something 176 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: is an ideology and a philosophy that is much deeper, 177 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: much richer, and much more dangerous than just Chicago School alone. 178 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: The second of the major schools is the Austrian School, 179 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: which is led by Ludovikfung, Mesas and Hyak and maybe 180 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: most importantly but least well known, the third school that 181 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: we're actually going to be talking about today is the 182 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: German Ordo Liberals, led by Alexander Rousteau, who again invented 183 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: determina liberalism and Wilheim Ropek, who almost no one has 184 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: ever heard of, but are incredibly important. And I'm gonna 185 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna insert a disclaimer here before I get yelled 186 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: at by by nerds. Yes, I'm aware of the public 187 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: choice theories at the Virginia School. I am also aware 188 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: of at a group of the deal lierbals is called 189 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: the Geneva School, even though they're just regular or the Liberals. 190 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: And there's also the rump of the neo institutionalists. Um, 191 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: I don't care about them because they're not irrelevant to 192 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: this story. Please do not you yell at me on Twitter. Now. 193 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: These people have wildly divergent beliefs and so I'm gonna 194 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: do my best to do one sentence summaries of what 195 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: these people believe. So the Chicago School of neo classical economics, 196 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: humans are all knowing, calculating gods, rationally optimizing their behavior 197 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: to get the most out of every single human interaction 198 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: they engage in to maximize the utility the product of 199 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: this infinite freedom to choose economic equilibrium. The Austrian school, 200 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: humans are pig ignorant function you know, literally nothing, and 201 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: therefore mostly made to bow down to the everat changing 202 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: disequilibrium of the market, which is the only thing that 203 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: can actually process information order liberalism. The markets won't create 204 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: or balance itself because these uncultured proletarian swine keep asking 205 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: for raises instead of focusing on the magic of the families. 206 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: So we have to use the state and laws to 207 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: force people and companies to do competition. And these are 208 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: obviously some what comical some reason of it, But these 209 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: are very very different conceptions of what it is to 210 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: be a human, of whether the market occurs naturally or not, 211 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: of what the market actually is. Is it a product, 212 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: is it an object in and of itself? Is it 213 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: a product? Is it just an inevitable product of humans 214 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: doing whatever humans do. And this is part of the 215 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: reason why it's always almost impossible to get the original 216 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: neo liberal supree into anything. But this is actually one 217 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: of the strength of the neo liberal project. The project 218 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: only works because it uses the products of all three branches. 219 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: You have neo classical attacks on the welfare state, Austrian 220 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: attacks in sexual planning and order, liberal theories of the state, 221 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: and sort of cultural on the non economic nature of markets. 222 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: And you know, when one school essentially fails as an 223 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: explanation for something, they can show up to another school, 224 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: and this gives them a very wide range of ability 225 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: to move between crises and move between people attacking any 226 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: of the individual schools because they can simply pull out 227 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: another set of theories. So I'm going to talk a 228 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: little bit more about each of the schools, and we're 229 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: going to start with the Chicago School because again it's 230 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: the most famous and because I think there's a there's 231 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: another very interesting story here into how the Chicago School 232 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: change from which origins. So one of the people who 233 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: are supposed to be a founding member of the Chicago 234 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: School was a manner in Henry Simmons, and Simmons is 235 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 1: unlike the rest of the Chicago school because he actually 236 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: believes in things. So I'm going to read a couple 237 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: of quotes from him. Thus, the great enemy of democracy 238 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,359 Speaker 1: is monopoly in all its forms, gigantic corporate trade associations 239 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: and other agencies of price control, trade unions, or in 240 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: general organization and concentration of power within functional classes. Here's 241 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: another one. A monopolist is an implicit thief because this 242 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: possession of market power leads the exchange of commodities at 243 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: prices that do not reflect underlying social scarcities. And you know, 244 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: you can see this sort of on one of one 245 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: of the classic neliberal arguments, which is that, okay, so 246 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: you have you have, you have the market, the market 247 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: is efficient, and trade unions get in the way of 248 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: the market because the monopoly. But Simmons has what kind 249 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: of looks like from from our prospective of left wink 250 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: ritique of monopolies, which is, yeah, okay, giant corps. Monopolies 251 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: are thieves because they use their market power to rob 252 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 1: people by charging higher prices. And it's it's I genuinely 253 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: can't say how differently things would have gone if Simmons 254 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: had actually been around to see the Chicago's go through, 255 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: because he commits suicide in neteen forty six, And unlike 256 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: every single other person who was going to be involved 257 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: with the Chicago School from the beginning until now, Simmons 258 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: had a genuine commitment to democracy and anti monopoly principles. 259 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: But unfortunately he's he dies in nextet six and by 260 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: the by the Chago School is really up and running 261 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: in the fifties, almost everyone involved in it is overtly 262 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: pro monopoly, pro cooperation and are you know that they 263 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: set up an anti trust school. But the thing that 264 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: the anti trust school is arguing is that monopolies are 265 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: actually essentially impossible because competition will just take care of everything, 266 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: and if you try to stop monopolies from happening, they 267 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: will interfere in the economy. Now, this is this is 268 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: the line that Milton Friedman takes, and it's also the 269 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: line of the Vulcar Fund, who are a sort of 270 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: I guess you could call them a charitable organization, but 271 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: it's basically a billionaire slush funds that funds the school, 272 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: and they've had real fights with Simmons because Simmons is like, well, okay, 273 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: monopolies are bad at vulcars like, well, we're a monopoly, 274 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: so you guys need to actually work for us. And 275 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: by the time Freedman essentially takes over the Chicago School 276 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: and uh night take it over. They're not just intellectual mercenaries. 277 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: They're extremely proud of the fact that they are, in fact, 278 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: pure intellectual mercenary hacks with absolutely dogshit economics. If you've 279 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: ever read just a or you know, if you've ever 280 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: been forced to take an economics class, you took microeconomics. 281 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: That's basically just what Chicago School believes. It's everyone's a 282 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: rational actor. Every every human being spends all of their 283 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: time trying to calculate the maximum utility of anything that 284 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: they do. Everything is a market. Everything functions by supply 285 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: and demand. Beckets are perfectly efficient if you just let 286 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: them alone and don't interfere with them. Everything the state 287 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: does interferes with the markets, et cetera, excepted. This is 288 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: this is the thing that is sort of classically understood 289 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: to be neoliberalisms core content. But it's extremely important to 290 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: understand that these are not the only neoliberals, and in fact, 291 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: not only are these not the only neoliberals. This set 292 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: of political principles, to a large extent, is not what 293 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: the neoliberals actually believe. This kind of stuff is essentially 294 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: what they feed the roots. Small states, tax is bad, 295 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: regulation bad. Everything is a market and has always been 296 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: a market, and all human interactions will invitably produce markets. 297 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: But to understand what neo liberals actually believe, we need 298 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: to talk about the Order liberals. Now, the two most 299 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: important Order Liberals are Wilheim rope K and W. W. Roustau, 300 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: who were both exiles during the Nazi regime. Now, a 301 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: lot of the other Order liberals who stayed in Nazi 302 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: Germany collaborated with the Nazi regime, which is something that's 303 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: kind of just overlooked and to the side when people 304 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: are right about them. But grope Key and Rousseau's status 305 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: as people who you know, fled the Nazis gives them 306 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: a kind of social cache that their colleagues don't have, 307 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: and they become extremely important. Now. In some ways, the 308 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: Order Liberals could be considered the left wing of of 309 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: the neoliberals. They are significantly less harsh on the welfare 310 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: state than other forms of neoliberalism and This is in 311 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: large part because the Order Liberals are the first new 312 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: liberals to ever actually hold any power, and I think 313 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: people most people tend to think that the first time 314 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: the liberalism was every implemented was Chile, but that's not 315 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: really true. The Order Liberals are actually very powerful in 316 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifties Germany. Now the problem they face is 317 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: that the left is powerful enough in Germany that they 318 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: cannot actually just completely eliminate the welfare state. So their 319 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: solution is to create this thing called the social markets. 320 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: And the Order Liberals get accused of like being crypto 321 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: socialists by a lot of the other Kneeler bills, but 322 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: that's not really what's going on. The very important thing 323 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: about the Order Liberals is that, unlike the Chicago School, 324 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: they're not economists. Both Rockey and Roost or social scientists. 325 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: Russo's a sociologist, and they argue that the state in 326 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: the market alone cannot maintain market society because market society 327 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: produces dislocation, you know, produces atomization, It destroys social cohesion, 328 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: and this means that you need a social, political and 329 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: sort of cultural framework to maintain it. And their major 330 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: focus is on providing stability and security for the working class, 331 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: and a new sense of sort of identity and cultural catition, 332 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: because I think if the working class is essentially left 333 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: to itself, it will create massification, cultural decay, and eventually 334 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: the working class return into the proletariat, and that will 335 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: give these either communism or fascism. The order liberals believe 336 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: that there's there's there's a kind of natural hierarchical order 337 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: that they're trying to preserve. That this is essentially what 338 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: order means. It means literally order which accords with the 339 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: essence of humans. This means an order in which proportioned 340 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: measure and balance exists. Now they have a few ways 341 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: that they're going to do this rope case obsessed with 342 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: something called structural policy, and structural policy is basically the 343 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: argument that the conditions from markets have to be specifically 344 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: created and again they're not just economic positions of social conditions. 345 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: And this is fused with Rousteau's vital politique, which is 346 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: essentially about that the power of anthropological and human aspects 347 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: of culture and politics beyond the forces of production that 348 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: they think are vital sort of the functioning of society, 349 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: and part of what they're doing here is that they 350 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: want to give some people a cultural thing to focus on, 351 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: so they stopped talking about like wages and welfare and 352 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: who owns production. But the combination of vital politics and 353 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: structural policy gets you order liberalism. So nominally they focus 354 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: on individuals, but really what they're focusing on as the family, 355 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: this quote unquote decentralized engine of economic capitalism with small 356 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: businesses and hopefully small family farms as a sort of 357 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: a political social support base for capitalism, which they're they're 358 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: they're going to promote and set against the radicalism of 359 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: the sort of industrial proletariat. And this this sort of 360 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: middle class that they're aspiring to build is extremely important 361 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: for a number of reasons. Partially is a way to 362 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: diffuse working class tension, partially as a way to sort 363 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: of offers work or something inspired to and partly as 364 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: a way to fuse the sort of traditional natural hierarchy 365 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: with conceptions and meritocracy. Now, Roka in particular also begins 366 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: to look for systems outside of just the democratic state 367 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: to sort of create this legal apparatus that the neoliberals 368 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: want to use to impose markets. And this is extremely 369 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: important because a lot of where neo liberalism whys are 370 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: coming from is not from national governments. It's from the 371 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: sort of international bureaucracy. It's from the I m F. 372 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: It's from the World Bank, it's from the World Trade Organization. 373 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: And those groups are controlled by by neoliberal lawyers. And 374 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: Rok is the person who essentially first has this idea. Now, 375 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: the goal of using these international legal institutions as a 376 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: way of creating law, the laws to sort of enforce 377 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: new liberalism is using it as a way to sort 378 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: of get around democracy. And I'm going to read this 379 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: quote from Rock because oh boy, does he absolutely not 380 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: believe in freedom and democracy in the way that he 381 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: and everyone else talks about publicly. It is possible that 382 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: in my opinion of the strong state, I am even 383 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: more fascist, fascististure than you yourself, because I would indeed 384 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: like to see all economic policy decisions concentrated in the 385 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: hand of a fully independent and vigorous state, weakened by 386 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: no pluralist authorities of a corporative kind. I see the 387 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: strength of the state in the intensity, not extensiveness, of 388 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: its economic policies. How the constitutional legal structure of such 389 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: as state should be designed as a question in and 390 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: of itself, for which I have no patent receipt to offer. 391 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: I share your opinion that the old formulas of parliamentary 392 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: democracy have proven themselves useless. People must get used to 393 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: the fact that there is also a presidential authoritarian even yes, 394 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: horrible thing to say, dictatorial democracy. So what he's saying 395 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: there is that's he's he's he's he's sending a letter 396 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: to one of you his friends, and he's going, yeah, 397 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: I'm I'm even more fascist than you are. I think 398 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: that democracy is actually a threat to the market, and 399 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: that in order to avoid authoritarian democracy, we should in 400 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: fact concentrate all economic decision making power in a in 401 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: the hands of a narrow elite in a strong state, 402 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: which is, you know, the opposite of everything that near 403 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: liberals open the claim to be supporting, but behind closed doors. 404 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: And we will get into more of this in a second. 405 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: This is what they actually believe. Now. Ropek is somewhat 406 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: unique among neliberals in that he is racist by neoliberal standards. 407 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: He's just enormously incredibly racist. So for example, he's he's 408 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: a massive apartheid dude. And again I need to point 409 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: this out. Broka is one of the things. Is one 410 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: of the most important neo liberals. He's one of the 411 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: founding members of the Montpellion Society, although he gets kicked 412 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: out for well, he eventually leaves because of some disputes 413 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: he as with Hyak. But you know, I'm gonna read 414 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: some of the things that he says about South Africa 415 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: because they're horrible. Quote the South African negro is not 416 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: only a man of an utterly different race, but at 417 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: the same time stems from a completely different type and 418 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: level of civilization. He also calls ending apartheid quote national suicide. 419 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: And you know, so she starts saying this stuff, and 420 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: the other neoliberals are like, dude, what the fuck? So 421 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: that the liberal he needs newspaper like he wrote for 422 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: for thirty years, which is like what's and published a 423 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: bunch of students going stop this, this is you cannot 424 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: seriously be supporting apartheid like this. And his response in 425 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: the newspaper is called the end zz and his response 426 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: is quote these n z Z near intellectuals will not 427 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: be satisfied until they let a real cannibals speak now. 428 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 1: Roku is one of his friends. Another MPs member named Hundled, 429 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: So Hyak looks at ropek support for apartheid and is like, 430 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: what the fuck? Like no, absolutely not, Like this is horrible. 431 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: Why why are you doing this? You know, to too 432 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: high X credit that this This is the extent of 433 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: the credit I will give Hik in this episode, is 434 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: that he looks at just the open overt racism of 435 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: Rocaine is like no. And when when he does this 436 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: Roka's friends, Hundled says that Hyatt quote now advocates one man, 437 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: one vote in race mixing. Now, you can see a 438 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: lot of things here about Okay that are extremely scary, 439 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: And one of those things is that the language that 440 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: he's speaking this, uh, the West is committing national suicide. Uh, 441 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: clash of civilizations, race war stuff. You know, this is 442 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: this is essentially the the I mean literally, the national 443 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: suicide thing is what white nationalists say today. And rope 444 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 1: Ka is in a lot of ways of right nationalist. 445 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: He's just sort of a German one. But what's what's 446 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: really scary about rope K is that he's not sort 447 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: of bound by by the sort of strictures of of 448 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: of a neo classicgo new classical economists. For example, he 449 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: won't propose that like the dating market, like like dating 450 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: should be a market, and that rich like men should 451 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: be able to like I go on an app and 452 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: like like every every every single time a person gets 453 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: into a relationship, it should just be entirely based on 454 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: market exchange and stuff like that, because you know, he 455 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: doesn't think like an economist. He thinks about cultural factors. 456 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: He thinks about sort of social factors. But he also 457 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: he's cracked the code for how newliberalism is going to 458 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: be implemented. The way you do needoliberalism is near liberalism 459 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 1: plus racism. And he realizes that you need, you know, 460 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: neoliberalism's actual sort of policies right will cause atomization, what 461 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: causuls with dislocation will cause that the existing social structures 462 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: to society sort of implode. And he realizes that in 463 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: order to get this to work, you need you need 464 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: a spiritual base, You need some kind of new thing 465 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: that you can use to to to sort of bring 466 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: all these people together. And he ficks Catholicism, which doesn't 467 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: work because I mean, there's another reason for this, but 468 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: you know, partially it's too early. Partially it's because he 469 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: picks a Catholicism, not evangelicalism. But this is how the 470 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: neoliberals are eventually going to take power by you know, 471 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: alligning themselves with the evangelicals who promised to solve the atomization. 472 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: They're creating with you know, religion and family and the patriarchy. 473 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: And he figures this out in like the sixties, but 474 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: it's just you know, like twenty years before the rest 475 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: of the new levels figured out. Now there's the he also, Okay, 476 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: has like a bunch of very similar stuff that thinks 477 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: about this about Rhodesia. But interestingly, he has more support 478 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: for his positions on Rhodesia than he does for his 479 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: positions in South Africa. And now I'm gonna we're gonna 480 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: jump back to Chicago School and we're gonna read some 481 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: Milton Friedman stuff about Rhodesia. Because dear God, quote majority 482 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: rule for Rhodesia today is a euphemism for a black 483 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: minority government, which would almost surely mean both the eviction 484 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 1: or exodus of most of the whites and also a 485 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: drastically lower living level and opportunity for the black masses 486 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: of Rhodesia. Here's another one where he's describing the system 487 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: of one person, one vote, quote, a system of highly 488 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: weighted voting in which special interest of far greater role 489 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: to play than does the general interest. Yeah, so that's 490 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 1: the decryption of what democracy is. In contrast, he thinks 491 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: the market economy is quote a system of effective proportional representation. 492 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: Now Friedman also thinks that, you know, so there's there's 493 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: a blockade like it can on the blockade of Rhodesia 494 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: going on because their Rhodesia and they are maybe the 495 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: worst people ever. That's only only in bild exaggeration. Yeah, 496 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: it's just you know, absolutely fanatical, like what was promises government. 497 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: And Freedman also calls the isolation of Rhodesia quote the 498 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: suicide of the West. And you know he's doing this 499 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: on racial lines, but he's also doing this along the 500 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: lines of this argument that democracy itself is actually bad, 501 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: and this is the place that he can express it 502 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: because you know, he can leverage racism to get away 503 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: with it. And I'm going to read another Freedoman quote 504 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: because I think it's it's important to understand what the 505 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: neoliberals actually think about democracy. Quote. This was sometimes admitted 506 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: by members of Mount Pelion in public but only when 507 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: they felt that their program was in the essense. Let's 508 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: be clear, I don't believe in democracy in one sense. 509 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: You don't believe in democracy. Nobody believes in democracy. You 510 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: will find it hard to find anybody who will say 511 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: that if democracy is interpreted as a majority rule, you 512 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: will find it hard to find anybody who will say 513 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: that of the people believe the other percent of people 514 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: should be shot. That's an appropriate exercise of democracy. But 515 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: I believe is not a democracy but an individual freedom 516 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: in a society in which individuals corroperate with one another. 517 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: So he's he's making a sort of what's in some 518 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: ways a kind of anarchist argument against democracy, which is 519 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: that like, yeah, okay, so if if you interpret democracy 520 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: as premajority rule, that a majority can just do a 521 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: terrible thing the minority. But you know what the new 522 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: lipperals actually mean by this is that of the population could, 523 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: for example, I don't know, take money from the rich 524 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: small part of the of the population and distributed around. 525 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: And they think that is totalitarianism. And in order to 526 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,719 Speaker 1: stop that from happening, they are in fact, absolutely imperfectly 527 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: willing to just back dictatorships. And you know, that's in 528 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: uSens what they what they what they actually want is 529 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: a state, the sole function of which essentially is to 530 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: ensure that nobody ever does this. And you know, if 531 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: you can do this iss out of a democratic framework, fine, 532 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: but if you can't, well, I don't know, it's time 533 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: for a coup. We're gonna turn to the two Hyak 534 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: in the Austrians, because Hyak also is known as the 535 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: sort of like as a libertarian, as a person who 536 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: sort of believes in spontaneous order and like thinks that 537 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: you should you should only have sort of small decentralized 538 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: political institutions. Uh. And so we're gonna watch Hyak quote 539 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff from and agree with a bunch 540 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: of stuff from Carl Schmidt, which is again incredible because 541 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: Hyak elsewhere describes Schmidt as quote, uh, the Nazis chief jurist, 542 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: which is true. But here here are some other things 543 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: that Hiak has said about Karl Schmidt. Quote. The weakness 544 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: of the governments of an omnipotent democracy was very clearly 545 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: seen by the extraordinary German student of politics, Carl Schmidt, 546 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: who in the nine twenties probably understood the character of 547 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: the developing form of government better than most people. And 548 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: you know, Hyak believes a lot of the same things 549 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: that Schmick does. So you know, one of them things 550 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: that Schmidt is like big on is that liberalism and 551 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: democracy are opposite things. And Hyak also believes this. And okay, 552 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: so so I'm gonna read I'm gonna read some Schmitt 553 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: and then we're gonna read some Hyak and they're gonna 554 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: be saying the same thing. So here, Schmidt, only a 555 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: strong state can preserve and enhance a free markets. Only 556 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: a strong state can generate, generate genuine decentralization and bring 557 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: about free and autonomous domains. Here's Hyak. If we proceed 558 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: on the assumption that only the exercise this is of 559 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: freedom at the majority will are important, we would be 560 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: certain to create a stadiant society with all the characteristics 561 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: of one freedom. So we want what Hi what Hyak? Yeah, 562 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: Schmidt is saying that only a strong state can to 563 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: support a free market and uncentralization. Hyak is saying, if 564 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: you let a democracy exist that has majority rule, it 565 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: will create un freedom. Now we will get into this 566 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: more when we talk about like Chile, because oh boy, 567 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: is there some other ship that hia cassity with that. 568 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: But most neoliberals hate democracy, no about it. What they 569 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: say in public and and this is the other important 570 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: thing here, neo liberals lie, they like constantly. They lie 571 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: to the point where sorting out their actual beliefs becomes 572 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: almost impossible, and even their intellectual enemies believe the lies 573 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: that they tell. Well, most people think the neo liberals 574 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: believe is that, you know, they want a small government 575 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: in liberty and an unregulated market that will occur to 576 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: actually through spontaneous order, because it's human nature to what 577 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: the truck and barter and rationally calculate things. And the 578 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: neoliberals don't believe any of this. This is just what 579 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: they tell to the groups. What they actually want is 580 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: a large and powerful surveillance in legal state, in a 581 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: massive bureaucracy to enforce essentially pro corporate policies at gunpoints. Um, 582 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna read close up this episode by by reading 583 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: a list of things that Philip Morowski is an economical 584 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: story to studies neliberalism. His work I've used a lot 585 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: for for these episodes. Wrote about the the sort of 586 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: the the sort of eleven principles of what neoliberals actually believe. One. 587 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: Free markets do not occur naturally. They must be actively 588 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: constructed through political organizing too. The market is an information 589 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: processor and the most efficient one possible, more efficient than 590 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: any government or any single human being could be. Truth 591 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: can only be validated by the market. Three. Market society is, 592 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: and therefore should be, the natural and inexorable state of 593 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: human kind. The political goal of neoliberals is not to 594 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: destroy this day, but to take control of it and 595 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: to redefine its structure and function in order to create 596 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: and maintain the market friendly culture. Five. There is no 597 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: contradiction between public politics citizen and private market entrepreneur consumer, 598 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: because the latter others and should eclipse the former. Six. 599 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: The most important virtue, more important then justice or anything else, 600 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: is freedom, defined negatively as freedom to choose, most importantly 601 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: defined as the freedom to acquiesce to the imperatives of 602 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: the market. Seven. Capital has a natural right to flow 603 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: freely across national borders. Eight. Inequality of resources, income, wealth, 604 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: and even political rights is a good thing. It promotes 605 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: productivity because people envy the rich and emulate them. People 606 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: who complain about inequality are either sore looters or old 607 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 1: foggies who need to get hip to the way things 608 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: work nowadays. Nine corporations could do no wrong. By definition, 609 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,439 Speaker 1: competition will take care of all problems, including any tendency monopoly. Ten. 610 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: The markets engineered and promoted by neoliberal experts can always 611 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: provide a solution to the problems seemingly endlessly caused by 612 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,439 Speaker 1: the market in the first place. There's always an app 613 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: for that. Eleven there's no difference between is and should 614 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: be free markets. Both should be normatively and are positively 615 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: the most efficient economic system and the most just way 616 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: of doing politics, and the most empirically true description of 617 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: human behavior and the most ethical and moral way to live, 618 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: which in turn explains, justifies and justifies why there are 619 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: versions of free markets should be, and as neoliberals build 620 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: more and more power, increasingly are universal. Yeah, we we 621 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: we We've read a long list of things. But essentially 622 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: the point of this is that the liberals want to 623 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,879 Speaker 1: transform everything into the market because they think the market 624 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: is a more efficient way of doing things, in a 625 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: better and more moral and more just way of doing 626 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: things than anything else you can possibly imagine, including you know, 627 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: things like democracy and you know, and any problem the system, 628 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: like produces will be solved by the system. Now, this 629 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: is this is an incredibly radical political program in a 630 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: lot of ways in that it will you know, you 631 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: can you can you can argue whether it's a radical 632 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: or reactionary program. I mean I think I think it's 633 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: a it's a deeply reactionary one in some ways. But 634 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 1: it is a is a program that is vastly different 635 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,320 Speaker 1: than anything else that has come before it. Now, the challenge, 636 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: of course, was getting anyone else to agree to this, 637 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: and the answer is that it's really hard to It 638 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,280 Speaker 1: is extremely hard to convince people that, you know, everyone 639 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: should bow down to the market, etcetera, etcetera. And so 640 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,479 Speaker 1: the only way they can actually do this is by lying. Now, 641 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: as as Morowski describes, the neoliberals operate an incredibly sophisticated 642 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 1: intellectual and political network that forms the sort of a 643 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: Choice Goodell with mortpellarrownd siety at its center and an 644 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: ever expanding group of more and less specialized think tanks 645 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: the shell layers. So it is where that they mirror 646 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: the vanguard structure and sort of frint group networks of 647 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 1: their communist opponents, but they have significantly better financial backing. 648 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: And this means that you know, they can run the 649 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: American Enterprise Institute and uh, you know, with with with 650 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,479 Speaker 1: copious amounts of coke money, they can run this entire 651 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: enormous network of think tanks that allows them to sort 652 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,399 Speaker 1: of act as a government in waiting. And the other 653 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: thing that they're going to attempt to do is take 654 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: over the global regulatory bureaucracy, the I m F, World Bank, 655 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: eventually the world trade organizations and force people to do 656 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 1: this at gunpoints by using those organizations. Now, all they 657 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: needed was a crisis that they could use to implement 658 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: their policies. And next week we're going to look at 659 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: the crisis that gave them exactly what they wanted. This 660 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: has been nickuld Happen Here. Find us on Instagram and 661 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Happened Here Pod. Find the rest of 662 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: our stuff at cool Zone and Goodbye. It could Happen 663 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media and more 664 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool zone 665 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I 666 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 667 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: You can find sources for it could Happen Here. Updated 668 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: monthly at cool Zone Media dot com slash sources, Thanks 669 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:48,760 Speaker 1: for listening.