1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: The Senator from Massachusetts, Elizabeth Warren, joining us live now 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: from Capitol Hill. Senator, it's good to see you and 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,239 Speaker 1: want to welcome you back to Bloomberg TV. It's a 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: big day around here. We've got the CPI report. 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 2: It's a story with. 6 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: Regard to inflation that we've been talking about for longer 7 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: than I can even remember at this point, and you 8 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: famously call J. Powell a dangerous man and a hearing 9 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: before your committee. Now that we're seeing inflation actually begin 10 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: to drop in a meaningful way and the job market 11 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: holds strong with wages actually rising, is he still a 12 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: dangerous man? 13 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 3: So look, if he stops the extraordinary rate increases that 14 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 3: he's been doing, then we will have made it through this. 15 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 3: We have great news today that inflation has been cut 16 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 3: by two thirds. So my message is take yes for 17 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 3: an answer, Chair Pal. 18 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 2: And let's stop with the rate increases. Done well well. 19 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 4: Senator Warren. Of course, monetary policy is only one responsibility 20 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 4: of the federal ers or the other is supervision. I 21 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 4: know an issue very near and dear to your art, 22 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 4: especially in light of the bank failures we have seen 23 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 4: this year. The vice share of supervision, Michael Barr has 24 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 4: recently laid out proposals to strengthen capital requirements for the 25 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 4: largest banks out there. Most importantly, are you satisfied with 26 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 4: his proposal? And do you think he has the authority 27 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 4: within the Federal Reserve to see it through? 28 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: So let me invert those. 29 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 3: The answer is, he clearly has the authority to be 30 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 3: able to put in higher standards and to be able 31 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 3: to enforce those higher standards. And the second part is 32 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 3: bar is headed in the right direction? 33 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: Is it enough? 34 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 3: No, we still have a lot of problems. We have 35 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 3: too much concentration in the banking industry. We have more 36 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 3: too big defailed banks than we did back when the 37 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 3: economy crashed in two thousand and eight, and the two 38 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 3: big defailed banks are bigger than they were back then. 39 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: So you know, we're not out of the woods yet. 40 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,639 Speaker 3: But I feel a lot better when I read Michael 41 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 3: Barr talking about how we need to tighten down on 42 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 3: bank regulation. 43 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: Go Michael, Senator, you held a hearing on bank consolidation today. 44 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: Understanding your concerns about the big banks, as you just mentioned, 45 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: too big to fail? How about small and medium sized banks? 46 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: Should they be allowed to get married so they can 47 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: better compete. 48 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 3: So the problem that we have faced is, of course, 49 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 3: more and more concentration at the top, and always keep 50 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 3: in mind the implications of that. One is obviously, too 51 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 3: big to fail puts our entire economy at risk. But 52 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 3: the other half is to remember that it is these 53 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 3: small banks that are the ones that actually do the 54 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 3: small business lending, and that drives our economy and it 55 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 3: also drives employment. That these small businesses are the engine 56 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 3: of our economy, and anything that wipes those banks out 57 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 3: is a bad idea. Finding ways to keep those banks 58 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 3: open as independent or allied banks, I'm in favor of that. 59 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: But the problem we've got is the big. 60 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 3: Banks are the ones who come in snap up the 61 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 3: little banks. Oh, they make a handful of promises about 62 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 3: how nothing will change, and then those banks disappear, so 63 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 3: that we now end up, for example, in a third 64 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 3: of all rural counties in America, there is no small 65 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 3: independent bank. There's nobody there who actually understands the local 66 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 3: economy and who is willing to get to know the 67 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 3: business that wants to borrow that money and sees that 68 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: as their job in banking. 69 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 2: That's not where the giants are. 70 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 3: They don't do the small business lending, and that's the 71 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 3: concern that I have about concentration. 72 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 4: So we know you have concerns about concentration and concerns 73 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 4: about some other issues that we do want to get 74 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 4: with you. Senator first though, if I could ask you 75 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 4: about a hearing you were in prior to today. You 76 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 4: have some concerns about Senator Tommy Tupper in the blockade 77 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 4: he has put on the promotions of members of the military. 78 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 4: Given those concerns about how that affects military readiness in 79 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 4: the US military families, what do you think you can 80 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 4: do to blunt that impact? What workarounds do you see? 81 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 2: So this is the problem we've got right now. 82 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 3: You know, I am the chair of the Subcommittee on 83 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 3: Personnel on the Senate Armed Services Committee, so I'm there 84 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 3: on front lines hearing from the families who now are 85 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,559 Speaker 3: in a position saying where do we register our kids 86 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 3: for school. I've heard from families who say, we've already 87 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 3: sold our house because we thought we were moving this 88 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 3: summer so that our active duty service member was going 89 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 3: to be deployed somewhere else around the country or around 90 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 3: the world. Profound impact on families, profound impact on our 91 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 3: military readiness. Our former secretaries of Defense, our current secretary 92 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 3: of Defense, our former secretaries of Defense who are Republican 93 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 3: appointees have all said this undermines military readiness. But here's 94 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 3: the problem. The Democrats can't stop Tommy Tuverville from what 95 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 3: he's doing. It is the Republicans who need to do this. 96 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 3: The Republicans need to say you are a member of 97 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 3: our party, you are putting national security at risk. You 98 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 3: are insulting and undermining military families in this country. Cut 99 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 3: it out, because that's the only way we can unlock 100 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 3: this hold and actually move through what is now literally 101 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 3: hundreds of military promotions and assignments that are just dead 102 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 3: in the water at this point. 103 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'd like to stay in touch with you on 104 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: that story, Senator, with regard to your committee position, it's 105 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: important to us and our viewers and listeners. I do 106 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: want to ask you about something and some news that 107 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: you and your colleagues are making today, releasing a report 108 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: and calling on federal officials to investigate tech giants and 109 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: namely Meta, the company behind Facebook, for somehow colluding. Maybe 110 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: you can be more specific than I with the major 111 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 1: tax preparers like H and R, Block taking millions of 112 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: people's personal and private information and giving it to Facebook, 113 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: presumably to sell ads. If this is true, Senator, this 114 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: is outrageous. Who's going to go to jail for this? 115 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: So you ask exactly the right question. 116 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 3: People went to tax preparers and, by the way, paid 117 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 3: them to prepare their taxes, and then it turns around 118 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 3: that the tax preparers gave access to all of this 119 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 3: private information about names and dependents and whether or not 120 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 3: you had medical expenses, all kinds of information to companies 121 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 3: like Meta. Now, we did the independent investigation. I did 122 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 3: this with other Senators, and we sent it over to 123 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 3: the Department of Justice because there's federal law on this 124 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: that no one is permitted to share tax information without 125 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 3: the permission of the taxpayer, and I feel pretty clear 126 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 3: that these tax companies did not get that permission. But 127 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 3: I want to take this one more turn if I can. 128 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 3: These are the same tax preparers who right now are 129 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 3: lobbying right here in Washington trying to make sure that 130 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 3: the IRS program to permit free filing, to let people 131 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 3: just go to the IRS, go to a website and 132 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 3: if you've got pretty simple taxes, fill it out on 133 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 3: the website and instantaneously, you're done letting people do that. 134 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 3: The tax preparers are trying to block the irs from 135 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 3: doing that. Why because they break in the money every 136 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 3: time somebody has to spend two hundred bucks or four 137 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 3: hundred bucks or six hundred bucks to get one of 138 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 3: them to prepare the taxes. You know, this really is 139 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 3: back to that fundamental question. Who's signed is government on 140 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 3: and the taxpayers want government on their side. We're trying 141 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: to get the government on the side of the taxpayers 142 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 3: so they can do free filing and not have to 143 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 3: worry about these companies that are giving their data a 144 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 3: way to outfits like Meta. 145 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 4: Well, as we talk about these companies, these large technology companies, 146 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 4: other news came this week and that Lina CON's FTC 147 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 4: was Delta blow in court on the Microsoft Activision Blizzard deal. 148 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 4: Are you concerned, Senator, that the courts are going to 149 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 4: stemy the efforts of competition regulators in the US. 150 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 2: Look, I think this is a bad decision. 151 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 3: At the end of the day, the judge believed of 152 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 3: Meta when they said, you know, we're going to do 153 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 3: just fine, and made a bunch of promises down the 154 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 3: line for what they're going to do that doesn't change 155 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 3: the fact that the merger itself is not legal. 156 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 2: But we have an opinion from the judge. 157 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 3: I want to commend the FTC for taking on hard cases, 158 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 3: taking on big companies, taking on cases that in the 159 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 3: past often just slid through, but that are clear violations 160 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 3: of the law. I applaud what the FTC has done, 161 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 3: and I say. 162 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: Stay after it. 163 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 3: Their job is to get out there and enforce the laws. 164 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 3: And if sometimes at court just wants to head in 165 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 3: a different direction, it doesn't change the fact that the 166 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 3: FTC is right to promote competition and to enforce the 167 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 3: law as it is written. Well. 168 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: Lastly, then Senator, maybe we'll take it another step even 169 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: further from there. As we talk about the idea of 170 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: tech companies combining, or any companies for that matter, whether 171 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: it's in the defense space or anywhere else that you 172 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: have expressed concerns about. Is anyone talking about breaking up 173 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: big tech if they are also too big to fail, 174 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: whether it's Google or another company that you might have 175 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: in mind, We've been down this road before with the 176 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: aforementioned Microsoft. 177 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think that talking about breaking up 178 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 3: these companies is right, and particularly breaking off pieces of 179 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 3: this company. You know, my favorite example here is Amazon. 180 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 3: Look at what Amazon does. It runs the platform on 181 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 3: which buyers and sellers come together, collects all that information, 182 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 3: and then becomes a competitor on the platform that runs 183 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 3: its own Amazon businesses, sometimes under the Amazon label and 184 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 3: sometimes under labels that nobody would ever figure out that 185 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 3: that's Amazon. To me, it's kind of like you could 186 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 3: be an umpire in baseball, or you can have a team, 187 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 3: but you don't get to do both at the same time. 188 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 3: And so there's an example for me, those two should 189 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 3: be broken apart. Concentration in industry after industry after industry 190 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 3: is a threat to our economy. It is a threat 191 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 3: to innovation and ultimately often leads to price gouging, whether 192 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 3: it's consumers of the government. You mentioned the defense industry. 193 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 3: Over the space of twenty years in America, we've gone 194 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 3: from having fifty five competitors for those defense contracts down 195 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 3: to five. And you know what they're looking for, even 196 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 3: more consolidation. When a little business starts up, they do 197 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 3: one of two things. They either smash it or they 198 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 3: buy it up and put it into one of the 199 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 3: big ones. 200 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 2: And that's how it is that. 201 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 3: The United States government ends up paying three hundred and 202 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 3: eighty five dollars for some valve that costs fifteen dollars 203 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 3: off the shelf. 204 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 2: We pay, and we pay through the nose. 205 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 3: For concentration in the defense industry, in the banking industry, 206 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: in big tech, in big pharma, and seeing the FTC, 207 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 3: the DOJ Antitrust Division, and what we should be doing 208 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: here in Congress is promoting competition. I believe in I 209 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 3: believe in the power of markets, but they only work 210 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 3: if we enforce the rules that keep competitors going rather 211 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 3: than monopolists. 212 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: Sounds like you might have a ringside seat to the 213 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: Elon Musk Mark Zuckerberg cage match. Senator, I hope. 214 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 2: You'll know that that's true. You get 215 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 4: All right, Senator Elizabeth Warren, the Democrat from Massachusetts, thank 216 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 4: you so much for being so generous with your time 217 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 4: this evening.