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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow

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Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick.

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Speaker 1: And hey, it is time for a listener Mail episode.

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Speaker 1: We've got Carney the mail box here with his uh

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Speaker 1: the stack of mail for us absolutely bursting at the

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Speaker 1: seams from this mail bag. That's right. We we had

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Speaker 1: a lot of great listener feedback in the past month

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Speaker 1: relating to episodes involving everything from from Tallos the Man

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Speaker 1: of Bronze to Baby Jesus, a Monkey Lie the Winter People. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've just we've had some really strong episodes

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Speaker 1: that have come out and people have have provided some

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Speaker 1: strong commentary on them. I know we always say this,

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Speaker 1: but we get really, really awesome listener mail. I I

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Speaker 1: love what you people out there send us, and please

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Speaker 1: always keep it coming in. It is true that we

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Speaker 1: can't always get to all of it, or we can

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Speaker 1: never get to all of it in a listener mail episode.

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Speaker 1: Is there's just too much to to read it all.

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Speaker 1: So please if you send us a great message and

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Speaker 1: we don't get to it in this episode, please don't

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Speaker 1: take that as a slight. There's just uh, not enough

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Speaker 1: time in the world to read it all, but we

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Speaker 1: hope we can give you a smattering of some of

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Speaker 1: our favorites here. Uh. If you write into us, you

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Speaker 1: will reach our eyeballs. We just don't always have time

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Speaker 1: to respond directly or certainly to read it all on

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Speaker 1: the show, I'd say the easiest way to get our

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Speaker 1: attention is to put RoboCop in the subject line. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't don't be afraid to to h to just try

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Speaker 1: and catch our attention. That way, by all means. Well.

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Speaker 1: On that note, let's uh, let's call forth the robot.

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Speaker 1: Let's look at a little bit of listener mail. What

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Speaker 1: do we have up first here, Joe, Well, it seems

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Speaker 1: that Carney is receiving a message from another solar system

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Speaker 1: who This first email is from Alice, and it's called

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Speaker 1: Omuamua episode comment. And so Alice writes, I adore your show.

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Speaker 1: Here is a note intended to help improve it on

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Speaker 1: the recent episode about our inter stellar visitor Omumua. That's

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Speaker 1: about the interstellar asteroid that was recently detected just this fall.

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Speaker 1: She she writes, you guys failed to note the more

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Speaker 1: likely explanation for why it would be shaped similarly to

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Speaker 1: a human designed ship for interstellar travel. Now we were

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Speaker 1: talking about that's one reason people have been speculating, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's some kind of alien probe or alien spaceship,

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Speaker 1: is that it was much longer than it was wide,

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Speaker 1: had this kind of cigar shape, which is an odd

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Speaker 1: shape for objects naturally found in the Solar System. Right,

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Speaker 1: you don't usually see asteroids shaped like that. Alice writes,

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Speaker 1: If a cigar shape is really more likely to avoid

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Speaker 1: collisions in space, then assuming that a number of randomly

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Speaker 1: shaped objects were ejected from a distant Solar system, the

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Speaker 1: ones that are not cigar shaped would be more likely

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Speaker 1: to encounter collisions and not make it to our Solar system.

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Speaker 1: Keep up the good work, Alice. I think that's an

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Speaker 1: interesting point. Yeah, yeah, And I do think it is

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Speaker 1: the point that was brought up in some of the

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Speaker 1: materials were looking at. I feel like this is probably

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Speaker 1: a case where maybe we are Probably I did not

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Speaker 1: hit it strongly enough when we were talking about it,

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Speaker 1: that the shape would indicate something that was designed to

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Speaker 1: survive an interstellar voyage, and this would be one of

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Speaker 1: the factors involved there. It's sort of establishes a cosmic

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Speaker 1: natural selection kind of thing, right, or at least a

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Speaker 1: type of anthropic principle. The types of objects would be

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Speaker 1: most likely to have entering our solar system are the

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Speaker 1: ones that are most likely to make it here, and

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Speaker 1: the ones that are not likely to make it here

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Speaker 1: we're not likely to see. That's if you're if you're

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Speaker 1: going with the idea that it's not a spaceship, which

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Speaker 1: I believe, that's still the the that's still the prognosis

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Speaker 1: is that it's not a spaceship. I hate to bust

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Speaker 1: the wonder, it's probably not a spaceship. But but but

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Speaker 1: luckily we we were able to air the episode. That

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Speaker 1: was our concern that after we recorded it, they would say,

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Speaker 1: actually it is a spaceship. Everybody, Um, the world has changed,

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Speaker 1: and then we'd have to go re record with an

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Speaker 1: it was aliens bent. Yeah, but we've never had to

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Speaker 1: do that yet. It's never come up. I am. I

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Speaker 1: can only imagine we would have to be very pro

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Speaker 1: alien in the follow up though, because I wouldn't want

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Speaker 1: them intercepting this podcast and then thinking, oh, well, those

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Speaker 1: are the those are the guys we need to take

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Speaker 1: out first. I for one, welcome our cigar shaped overlord exactly. Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much, Alice. And our next email comes

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Speaker 1: from Levi and it concerns the Talos episode about the

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Speaker 1: ancient Greek automaton. This is one of two different cases

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Speaker 1: on the podcast where we essentially gave the listeners homework

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Speaker 1: and sad here uh, someone else figure out the math

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Speaker 1: of this particular scenario. Now, this concerns the fact that

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Speaker 1: in the episode, the ancient belief about Talos, or at

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Speaker 1: least what was said in the myths about him, was

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Speaker 1: that he would have to go around the coast of

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Speaker 1: Crete three times in a day, right, And so we

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Speaker 1: were wondering, well, assuming he's marching the whole time, because

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Speaker 1: he is an automaton, he can do that, then how

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Speaker 1: fast is he going? And maybe even what is that

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Speaker 1: reveal about his size because we had some discussions about

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Speaker 1: is is he man sized or is he a giant

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Speaker 1: like we see in the Ray Harryhausen version of Talos. Right,

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Speaker 1: so Levi contacts us with an email called the Talos equation.

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Speaker 1: He says, hey, guys, I am in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the Talos episode and I had to pause to do

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Speaker 1: some quick math after the comment about wanting someone to

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Speaker 1: figure out how fast how large Talis would have to

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Speaker 1: be to circle create three times a day, This sort

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Speaker 1: of trivial endeavor is precisely my cup of tea. So

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Speaker 1: here it goes. A rough estimate of the total shore

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Speaker 1: length of crete finds the distance to be approximately four

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Speaker 1: hundred sixty miles, and three laps around the island would

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Speaker 1: make the total daily distance thirteen hundred and eighty miles.

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Speaker 1: If we assume an eight hour day sunrise to sunset,

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Speaker 1: we can calculate that Talos would be moving at about

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Speaker 1: one and seventy two miles per hour. The description of

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Speaker 1: it is pretty fast, but hey, atom of time with

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Speaker 1: the the I core of the gods flowing through its vein,

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Speaker 1: so you know anything's possible. That's right, It's like the

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Speaker 1: super unleaded, so Levi continues quote. The description of Tallos

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Speaker 1: given in the Argonautica says that he strode around the

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Speaker 1: island as opposed to running or sprinting. And if we

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Speaker 1: assume a stride to mean a normal walking pace, we

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Speaker 1: can say that a stride is about eighty steps per minute.

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Speaker 1: Interesting variation here, given the rate of speed of one

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Speaker 1: hundred seventy two miles per hour. We convert our units

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Speaker 1: to feet per minute fifteen thousand, one hundred fifty three

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Speaker 1: point sixty ft per minute. Next, we calculate our distance

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Speaker 1: per step. Fifteen thousand, one hundred and fifty three point

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Speaker 1: six divided by eighty average steps per minute gives us

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Speaker 1: a figure of one hundred and eighty nine point forty

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Speaker 1: two ft per step. That's a long stride. If we

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Speaker 1: assume that the average person stride distance per step is

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Speaker 1: equal to approximately half their height, we can calculate Tallos's

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Speaker 1: total height to be three hundred and seventy eight point

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Speaker 1: eighty four feet. So this would definitely be supporting the

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Speaker 1: idea that Tallos is not a human sized creation but

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Speaker 1: a true giant. Now, this kind of goes counter to

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Speaker 1: what most of the ancient sources would seem to assume,

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Speaker 1: which is that Tallos was made of bronze. But he

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Speaker 1: was more like the tin man than like the Ray

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Speaker 1: Harry housing giant Taalos. He was a human sized bronze creature. Now,

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Speaker 1: Levi continues quote, Now that this mathematical and geeky itch

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Speaker 1: is sufficiently scratched, I can enjoy the rest of the

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Speaker 1: episode of the show, keep up the suburb work regards

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Speaker 1: LEVI did the whole thing with it on pause. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I like that. I like that initiative. Pause the episode,

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Speaker 1: do some math homework and send to send the answers.

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Speaker 1: Now we got a slightly different calculation from our listener

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Speaker 1: e J. Right, Yeah, e J wrote in on the

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Speaker 1: discussion module. That's our Facebook group. An excellent way to

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Speaker 1: interact not only with us, but with other listeners to

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Speaker 1: the show. E J says, quote, I used the distance

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Speaker 1: measuring feature on Google Maps to ballpark the coastline of

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Speaker 1: Crete two six d twenty miles nine seven point seven kilometers.

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Speaker 1: Talos would have to go about seventy seven point five

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Speaker 1: miles per hour point seven kilometers per hour to do

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Speaker 1: three laps of the island a day. Also, I couldn't

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Speaker 1: help thinking about sky Rim during the episode, and he

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Speaker 1: included a picture from a particular meme that's popular. But

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Speaker 1: I believe, if I remember correctly from my Skyrim playing days,

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Speaker 1: Talos is a god in the world of sky Rim,

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Speaker 1: and there's a particular MPC that goes around preaching about Talos.

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Speaker 1: I think he's in the first major talent you encounter.

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Speaker 1: So I'm unfamiliar with Talos or with Skyrim in general.

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Speaker 1: Is Tallos bronze in Skyrim? Ah, you know, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember. There are some cool bronze automatons in it,

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Speaker 1: because the like extinct dwarves of the world, have just

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Speaker 1: left behind their ruins and they have these these, uh,

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Speaker 1: these these bronze automatons that walk around and kill things

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Speaker 1: that stumble into their ancient dungeons. So, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: a certain familiarity with the Talos smith I imagine with

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Speaker 1: the Skyrim creators. Now, there are some differences in these calculations,

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Speaker 1: not only with with the differences in estimation numbers, but

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Speaker 1: also with the number of hours that Talis would be

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Speaker 1: expected to walk per day. I think Levi had it

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Speaker 1: going at eight hours per day, whereas I think e

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Speaker 1: J was assuming just constant patrol of the shores. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if patrolling at night would make as much sense,

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Speaker 1: because would you be able to see people coming anyway? Well,

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Speaker 1: it seems like that would be a great time to

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Speaker 1: uh send in a ship of invaders. So I don't know. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: you know, Jason didn't quite think of that one today.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know, there's so many additional navigational questions

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Speaker 1: coming to play. Yeah, I'm not sure on that. Perhaps

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Speaker 1: our listeners have further thoughts on this whole Talas conundrum. Now,

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Speaker 1: as I said, this was not the only bit of

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Speaker 1: homework that we handed out to our listeners. You also

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Speaker 1: handed out a little a little bit of listener math

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Speaker 1: homework in regards to our baby Homunculi Jesus episode. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: in that episode, we were discussing the old Preformation theory

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Speaker 1: of human reproduction. And this was a theory several hundred

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Speaker 1: years ago and and before that that that human beings

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Speaker 1: and human embryos Basically that they didn't have the idea

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Speaker 1: that the sperm and the eggs cell would combine and

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Speaker 1: fuse together and mix their chromosomes to create a new

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Speaker 1: recombined human embryo cell. Instead, they had the idea that

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Speaker 1: either the sperm cell or the egg cell was a

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Speaker 1: fully formed human being, just very tiny, and that somehow

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Speaker 1: the the act of sex would cause that fully formed

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Speaker 1: human being to start growing within the uterus. Now, I wondered,

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Speaker 1: under this theory, how many generations of humans within humans

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Speaker 1: could be stored scaled down all the way so like,

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Speaker 1: because you imagine if every human sperm cell is a

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Speaker 1: fully formed human, then that tiny, fully formed human has

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Speaker 1: all future generations formed to sperm cell size within itself,

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Speaker 1: so it has to be purport snally smaller. The Russian

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Speaker 1: nesting dolls can only go down so far before they

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Speaker 1: run into like hard physical limits. Yeah, you'd eventually get

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Speaker 1: to something like plank length, which is, you know, a

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Speaker 1: length of space in physics that no longer makes any

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Speaker 1: physical difference to our calculations. So we asked this question

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Speaker 1: and our listener Madison supplied an awesome answer. Madison wrote,

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Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of your podcast, and in the

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Speaker 1: episode Baby Jesus and the Homunculous, you pose the calculation

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Speaker 1: on how many generations could exist if the theory of

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Speaker 1: a fully formed human existed in the sperm How far

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Speaker 1: back could this go before meeting the plank length. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's find out the average newborn human male length is

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Speaker 1: about fifty centimeters and the size of the average sperm

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Speaker 1: cell head is about five point one micrometers or microns.

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Speaker 1: This means the ratio of newborn length UH of newborn

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Speaker 1: length to sperm length is and she does the calculation.

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Speaker 1: It's about nine eight thousand, but she says we should

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Speaker 1: just round it to a hundred thousand because it's easier,

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Speaker 1: or a factor of one e five. So she says,

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Speaker 1: from here it is fairly straightforward. For that first generation

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Speaker 1: a human that is the length of a sperm or

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Speaker 1: five micrometers, would have a second generation of sperm that

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Speaker 1: is five E negative eleven or fifty picometers, about the

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Speaker 1: length of one helium atom. From there, you could only

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Speaker 1: progress six generations until you reached five E negative thirty

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Speaker 1: six meters or a plank link, or beyond a plank length,

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Speaker 1: essentially because the plank length is one point six E

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Speaker 1: negative thirty five ms. Then Madison writes, but what about

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Speaker 1: the O a site human O sytes are much larger

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Speaker 1: than sperm at a hundred micrometers in diameter. Using the

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Speaker 1: same logic, you could only reach eight or nine generations

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Speaker 1: before passing the plank length. Not only does this pose

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Speaker 1: size limitations, but eight generations is really only two hundred

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Speaker 1: years or so. This was a fun thought experiment. I

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Speaker 1: really enjoy your podcast, and I've been listening to them

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Speaker 1: for over a year now. I've just finished my n

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Speaker 1: a graduate in molecular and cellular biology at the University

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Speaker 1: of Connecticut, and I'm preparing to continue for a PhD

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Speaker 1: in genetics this fall. I currently do researching computational genomics,

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Speaker 1: specifically with pine trees and their massive and complex genomes.

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Speaker 1: At about ten times the size of the human genome.

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Speaker 1: Pine trees like the lob lolly pine, are some of

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Speaker 1: the largest genomes sequence to date. My work is essentially

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Speaker 1: building a twenty three in me for these trees so

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Speaker 1: we can breed traits like disease resistance more effectively. That's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: For a future podcast idea, it might be interesting to

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Speaker 1: talk about genomes and their sizes and complexity. What are

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Speaker 1: the biggest genomes and why are they so big? Why

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Speaker 1: is it so hard to sequence the wheat genome? How

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Speaker 1: are genomes assembled computationally, and why is it all so difficult?

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Speaker 1: So many people ask me about that and how humans

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Speaker 1: fit into all of it. Another idea for a podcast

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Speaker 1: could be how it could be about ancestry testing or

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Speaker 1: how twenty three and me trade profiles work and don't work.

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Speaker 1: I'm still trying to educate my parents on how their

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Speaker 1: test results could be slightly different from their siblings. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for all the wonderful content. Thank you so much, Madison.

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Speaker 1: This is a great email and full of great ideas

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Speaker 1: for future episodes. I think genome size and complexity is

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Speaker 1: a really fascinating area. I've just been reading something about

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Speaker 1: research that came out this year comparing the genome sizes

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Speaker 1: of different birds and mammals and what genome size might

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Speaker 1: actually have to do with flight. Interesting. Yeah, I would

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Speaker 1: love to to dive into that. I don't think we've

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Speaker 1: we've covered anything quite along those lines before. Alright, on

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Speaker 1: that note, we're going to take a quick break, and

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Speaker 1: when we come back we will consider some more listener

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Speaker 1: mails concerning some recent topics. Thank alright, we're back. So

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Speaker 1: this next bit of listener mail comes to us from

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Speaker 1: listener Stephen, titled paradox or Semantic Illusion. So already we're intrigued, Hi,

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Speaker 1: Robert and Joe. While working, I often find it helpful

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Speaker 1: to distract my mind a little. For this reason, I

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Speaker 1: listened to lots of podcasts. Stuff to Blow your Mind

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Speaker 1: is by far my favorite. I make my living as

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Speaker 1: a custom mannequin sculptor, using clay for some projects and

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Speaker 1: digital sculpting programs like z Brush for others. I have

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Speaker 1: never heard of that job before, but that is so interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I should have thought before how do mannequins get made? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean you. I guess you tend to think that

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Speaker 1: you just have like a mass produce, and certainly there

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Speaker 1: are some mass produced mannequins. But you do see unique

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Speaker 1: mannequins in certain stores and they have to have an

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Speaker 1: origin story. Yeah, totally. This is the guy. This is

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Speaker 1: the modern datalists creating his his his mermaidis he continues

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Speaker 1: the production deadline. I have to meet can by brutal

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Speaker 1: many times when I have needed to put in crazy

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Speaker 1: hours to get things done. Stuff to blow your mind,

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Speaker 1: and has made the process less painful than it otherwise

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Speaker 1: would have been. Thank you. Your recent podcasts about the

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Speaker 1: Present Moment and by Cameralism have the lin and rust

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Speaker 1: coded cogs of my mind grinding into motion again. I

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Speaker 1: was unfamiliar with Julian Jayne's work prior to hearing your

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Speaker 1: podcast on bi Cameralism, but I have ed and appreciated

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Speaker 1: Joseph Campbell and Eckart Toole's ideas for many years. I'm

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Speaker 1: reaching out to you because I'm trying to reconcile Campbell,

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Speaker 1: Tole and Jane's perspectives on metaphors. So he continues, Joseph

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Speaker 1: Campbell told Bill Moyers during the Power of Myth interview, quote,

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Speaker 1: most people in the West take metaphors in religion literally,

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Speaker 1: mistaking the denotation with the connotation. Ekart Tole has written, quote.

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Speaker 1: As soon as something is perceived, it is named, interpreted

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Speaker 1: compared with something else liked, disliked, or called good or

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Speaker 1: bad by the phantom self, the ego. They are imprisoned

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Speaker 1: in thought forms in object consciousness. You do not awake

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Speaker 1: con spiritually until the compulsive and unconscious naming ceases, or

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Speaker 1: at least become aware of it and thus observe it

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Speaker 1: as it happens. And that's from page forty in a

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Speaker 1: New Earth. Anyway, Stephen continues, I'm still reading the origin

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Speaker 1: of consciousness in the Breakdown of the bicameral Mind, but

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Speaker 1: so far, what I'm hearing Jane say is that metaphors

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Speaker 1: make non bicameral consciousness possible, and that when people were bicameral,

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Speaker 1: they heard voices in their heads telling them what to do,

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Speaker 1: making most of their actions unconscious. Please assume momentarily for

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Speaker 1: the sake of reckless of a reckless thought experiment that

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Speaker 1: Jane's theory about the role of metaphor and consciousness is correct.

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Speaker 1: With this temporary assumption, in effect, I feel like there

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Speaker 1: is something glaring me in the face when these three

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Speaker 1: perspectives are laid out on the same page. The trouble

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Speaker 1: is I can't quite put my finger on it. I'm

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Speaker 1: sharing my quandary with you and the hope that you

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Speaker 1: may see what I'm missing and pointed out to me.

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Speaker 1: Would there be a chicken egg paradox surrounding consciousness where

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, it cannot emerge without the use

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Speaker 1: of metaphors, names, concepts, or labels, but on the other

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Speaker 1: is all but blighted out by the gross oversimplification which speech, language,

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Speaker 1: and metaphor inevitably produce. When I consider the possibility that

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Speaker 1: many violent acts which have contributed to cycles of unending suffering,

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Speaker 1: potentially exasperated by at the genetic magnification, could have been

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Speaker 1: the outgrowth of an unconscious bicameral haze which did not

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Speaker 1: dissipate until very recent human history, it makes my head

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Speaker 1: spin when I reconsidered Joseph Campbell's insights about dentotation being

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Speaker 1: mistaken with connotation in the realm of metaphor. The irony

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Speaker 1: would be that even after bicameral dominance faded, the misunderstanding

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Speaker 1: of metaphors by non bicameral minds would have been waiting

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Speaker 1: in the wings like a purveyor of hell on wheels,

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Speaker 1: continuing the mad momentum with by which bi cameralism might

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Speaker 1: have given birth to. What bothers me is that these

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Speaker 1: ideas seem to simultaneously support and contradict one another. On

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Speaker 1: a lighter note, I have included some mannequin prototype samples

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Speaker 1: that I sculpted in clay at work about a year

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Speaker 1: ago while listening to many Stuff to Blow your Mind podcasts.

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Speaker 1: I'm gradually making time to do my own work again

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Speaker 1: when I'm not sculpting mannequins, and I may play with

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Speaker 1: ideas about consciousness inspired by the perspectives Campbell, Tole and

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Speaker 1: James have me considering. You guys are on a roll,

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Speaker 1: and my inspirational batteries are beginning to recharge. Please keep

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Speaker 1: the podcast coming. Thank you, Steve. Well, that's really interesting stuff, Steve.

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Speaker 1: I mean, one thing I would say is that if

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Speaker 1: you're asking about how to reconcile these different views, I

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Speaker 1: think to some degree the views, I mean, you could

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Speaker 1: modify them and reinterpret them generally, but I think they're

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Speaker 1: sort of incompatible. Right if you're saying that the Tol's

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Speaker 1: ideas that metaphors kind of um imprison our thoughts and

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Speaker 1: limit our consciousness because we're making comparisons and and using

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Speaker 1: words to limit experience. And then on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: you've got Jane saying that, um that metaphors make consciousness possible,

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Speaker 1: though I think it's not just non bi cameral consciousness.

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Speaker 1: I think he would say that metaphors make both bi

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Speaker 1: cameralism and consciousness possible, and that you couldn't have either

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Speaker 1: one without metaphors. Metaphors are sort of his road out

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Speaker 1: of the stimulus response machine architecture. Uh. Now, of course

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Speaker 1: that's all just like if you're playing with the Julian

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Speaker 1: Jans hypothesis, we're not assuming that this is actually a

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Speaker 1: true explanation of where consciousness came from. But but yeah,

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Speaker 1: if if you do sort of entertain it as a hypothesis,

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Speaker 1: I think it's not quite compatible with the idea that

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Speaker 1: metaphors are these shackles that limit our experience, right, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree. And now I'm thinking back on Ekartole's writings

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Speaker 1: and I seem to recall the the details he's referring to,

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Speaker 1: where basically totally is making an argument for being able

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Speaker 1: to observe the world and not depend upon metaphors, not

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Speaker 1: depend upon the language, uh to make sense of it,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of like being able to stare at

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Speaker 1: a flower, stare at a rose, say, inexperience it for

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Speaker 1: what it is without bringing in the name off the

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Speaker 1: roads ironically, or or the various meanings that we have

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Speaker 1: heaped upon it to render it just completely powerless. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's an interesting thought. I mean, I don't know the

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Speaker 1: answer to whether it's even possible for a person with

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Speaker 1: a language based mind to have non language consciousness. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've never had that experience myself that I can think of,

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Speaker 1: where like I just lose analytic language and words and

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Speaker 1: words and structure and grammar all fade away and it's

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Speaker 1: just raw experience of like I don't know light and

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Speaker 1: sound without any names or comparisons. I think I've mentioned

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Speaker 1: this before, but I've had the experience of playing with legos, uh,

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Speaker 1: more recently with my son, and I still have the

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Speaker 1: numbers to go by. You know, how many of those

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Speaker 1: little circles are on a block, or what color they are,

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Speaker 1: what basic length they are is at a big piece

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Speaker 1: or a little piece? But I don't, I at least

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Speaker 1: do not have names for those blocks, and I have

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Speaker 1: often found myself thinking about that as I'm building something

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Speaker 1: with my son that I'm I don't have names for

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Speaker 1: the thing, the components. I'm used to build something with

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Speaker 1: a name. Um, but again it's not quite the same

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Speaker 1: because I still have the number system to go off,

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Speaker 1: I still off of, I still have the color, and

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Speaker 1: I still have the final shape to consider. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if Steven or other artists out there that listen

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Speaker 1: to the show have any insight on this as well,

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Speaker 1: creating something out of things that perhaps don't have names,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not quite sure. I'm still trying

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Speaker 1: to think how exactly Joseph Campbell's idea fits into all this.

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Speaker 1: I Um, I don't know that I agree with him,

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Speaker 1: but I do think that that is a very possible concept.

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Speaker 1: I mean, something I've brought up before on the show

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Speaker 1: is you don't always know how to read ancient myths

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Speaker 1: when when he says Joseph Campbell's ideas that modern Western

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Speaker 1: audiences look at a myth and they tried to take

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Speaker 1: it literally, they tried to take it as denotation rather

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Speaker 1: than connotation, when really what the myth is is that

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Speaker 1: it's a bunch of symbolic resonances and meanings rather than

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Speaker 1: like a literal story about something that physically happened. But

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Speaker 1: as I probably said before, I think that's one of

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Speaker 1: the great things about myth though, is that you you

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Speaker 1: can take it out and you can you can put

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Speaker 1: it on the shelf and you can you can turn

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Speaker 1: it this way, you can turn it that way, you

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Speaker 1: can change your perspective, and all the different ways of

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Speaker 1: looking at it can be rewarding in slightly different ways.

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Speaker 1: So look at it as as a you know, fundamental truth.

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Speaker 1: This is a true story, a magical thing that happened.

428
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: Look at it is literature, look at it as a

429
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: story created to explain something, ETCETERA Avid refer listeners back

430
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: to our myth episode as we roll through all the

431
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 1: various ways you can explain a myth. But I find

432
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: that it's examining each of those perspectives is rewarding, and

433
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: it's not as much trying to figure out the definite

434
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: explanation for what it is. Um. Yeah, I wonder sometimes

435
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 1: how much of this confusion is born out of just

436
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 1: pure equivocation on the uses of the word truth. Like

437
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: when somebody would say, for example, that their Holy Book

438
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: is true. You could take that in in multiple different ways,

439
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: and you could have very different reactions to it based

440
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 1: on what they mean by the word true, right, Like

441
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 1: you could use that to mean every story told in

442
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: it literally physically happened in the past, or you could

443
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 1: use it to mean there are statements in it that

444
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: give true structure and meaning to my life, or you

445
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: could take that to mean that when I read it,

446
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: something feels right about it. Yeah. I find myself again

447
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 1: with my son time to explain a lot of this

448
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 1: stuff because he'll, you know, he has the he has

449
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: it down like if something is true obviously, and then

450
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: if something is completely made up. But I'm really trying

451
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: to define the idea of myth for him as being

452
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: this middle ground that a story can be true but

453
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: not factual. Like it's the way I try to explain

454
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: it is, well, this is not a story of something

455
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: that actually happened, but is it a story that means

456
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: a lot to people and has truth in it? But

457
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: you should get caught up on whether or not there

458
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: was an actual Garden of Eden, or I have dragons

459
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: are real, etcetera. But that's not to just dismiss them

460
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: to the realm of ninja turtles and yeah. And in fact,

461
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: people don't have all that much trouble with this when

462
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: they think about modern literature. I think, I mean people

463
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: will usually be able to acknowledge that a work of

464
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: fiction written ten years ago is of course not literally factual.

465
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: It doesn't describe things that happened in the world, and

466
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: yet it's full of truth. For some reason, it becomes

467
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 1: more difficult to sort out these meanings of truth when

468
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,239
Speaker 1: it comes to like myths and and the things that

469
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: structure our lives, like religions and yeah, and I think

470
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: a lot of that come ends up depending upon an

471
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: inaccurate view of how ancient people's considered their beliefs to

472
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: to just look at it as, oh, well, this was

473
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: something that more primitive people believed in. They thought this

474
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: was an absolute truth. And if I'm looking at it

475
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: in a different way, than I'm I'm looking at it

476
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: with modern eyes, and it's not quite the same thing.

477
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: But again, I feel like on this show, when we

478
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: discuss myths, we tend to drive home the point that

479
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: that it's more complicated than that. One last thing on

480
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: that idea, I often wonder if people in ancient cultures

481
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: who you know, had Greek myths and Babylonian myths and

482
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: all that, if there was sort of a similar diversity

483
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: of orientation towards the myth and that you would have

484
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 1: among people in various religions today. So like, if you

485
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: explore Christianity in the United States, there will be lots

486
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: of people who believe in a literal six day creation,

487
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: and then a lot of people who believe in the

488
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: truth of Christianity, but they don't believe that the stories

489
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: like are literally factual descriptions of physical realities. And I

490
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: wonder if you'd find the same thing in ancient cultures. Actually,

491
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: you get some people who are insisting on kind of

492
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: literal interpretations of mythical stories and other people who are

493
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: who are drawing from the well of myth to provide

494
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: structure and meaning. Yeah, I mean a great deal of

495
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: that is is lost. Alright, well we'll have to move on. Obviously,

496
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: we could talk about this all day, but I also

497
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: want to say, Steve, thanks for sending in those images

498
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: of your mannequin work. Uh. These were really cool. That's

499
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: kind of we We can't share them with everybody because

500
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: they're they're kind of confidential, but they have a very

501
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: uh kind of sci fi meets classical Uh look to them,

502
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 1: you know, right, yeah, the polymers of ancient Greece. Yeah, yeah,

503
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: all right, Well, what do we have next from Carney?

504
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: The mail bought here? Well, Carney is giving us a

505
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: message from Julia, and it's about our Winter People episode.

506
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: So Julius says, Hi, Robert, Hi Joe, Ela Kasla. So

507
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: this email has a lot of quakwa kuk words in

508
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: it that I'm going to do my absolute best to

509
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: try to pronounce. But I I apologize if I fail

510
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: at pronouncing them right. But you're a braver man than I.

511
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: Jo Okay, So it starts Ela Kasla, which means thank

512
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: you for your shout out to the Kukwaku people in

513
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: your Winter People podcast. I listen to your podcasts while

514
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: out delivering beer in and around Vancouver. For how sound brewing.

515
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: I was delighted and surprised when I heard you mentioned

516
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: the Quikakubuck people's I am part Zawadnu, a tribe that

517
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: falls when within the Quakuala speaking languages groups. The winter

518
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: ceremonies are a big part of our culture. I have

519
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: witnessed the Hamatza being tamed in the Gootzi, which is

520
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: the big House. I appreciated your understanding that this is

521
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: more than just a performance. It's a way to transcend

522
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: reality and enter into the spiritual. When we go onto

523
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: the floor to dance in the Big House, we turn

524
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: around in a circle. This is a representation of us

525
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: turning into the spirit world. Our ancestors were theatrical. You

526
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: mentioned choreography in our dances. This did happen. I have

527
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: heard stories of those that knew they were being bitten

528
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: by the Hamatza putting a piece of meat on their

529
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: arms so that when the Hamassa bites them it will

530
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: look as though they have bitten into the flesh and

531
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: some off. These performances would often scare the Indian agents

532
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: that would come to our ceremonies. I've read that back

533
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: in the day that Knee No Sola, who are the

534
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: wise people would choose who would be initiated as the Hamatza.

535
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: They would then fake that person's death in front of

536
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: the community in a very convincing way. This person would

537
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: then have to secretly leave the village and go through

538
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: their initiation process, only to return during the winter ceremony. Unfortunately,

539
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: colonialism has continued to degrade our cultural connections to the

540
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: spirit world and to our ceremonies. Residential schools, genocide disease,

541
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: the potlatch band, the sixties scoop stealing our regalia, forced

542
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: sterilization of Indigenous women, systemic racism have all contributed to

543
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: this degradation. We no longer have these ceremonies in the winter.

544
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: We no longer have winter and summer names. We no

545
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: longer have the traditional foods that supported us through the

546
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: winter months. This is starting to shift, though. We are

547
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: relearning our old ways and adapting them to our new ways.

548
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: We're starting to restore traditional governance, of which the winter

549
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: ceremonies contribute greatly to. We're fighting for our wild foods,

550
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: and we're currently on the front lines in a fight

551
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: against open net fish farms in our traditional territories. The

552
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: story about the Cannibal at the North End of the

553
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: World has been told to me differently. Bak bakwal Nuke,

554
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: the Cannibal at the North End of the World is

555
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: one of the four brothers in the version I know.

556
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: They are the sons of Si Kam, the cedar Man,

557
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: who is the original ancestor of the qui Quatu. Other

558
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: histories have different versions, though depending on who tells them

559
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: and what their reason for sharing the story is. I

560
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: enjoyed listening to the version you had learned. Just interesting

561
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: to note that the zoo Qua the wild Woman of

562
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: the Woods, is oftentimes associated with the Sasquatch. As a

563
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: young indigenous woman who has only recently started to reconnect

564
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: with her culture, it was super cool to come across

565
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: a podcast that spoke to her roots. Cheers and this

566
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: is from Julia dam gilligam Me or Abalone Shell Woman.

567
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: Well that was a real treat. I mean, we uh

568
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: we we kind of gambled in that episode and said, well,

569
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: we probably have some listeners out there who have some

570
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: familiarity with this culture or parts of this culture, and

571
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: uh and long behold, we we got to hear from one.

572
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: This was really cool. So thank you so much for

573
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: getting in touch, Julia. All Right, on that note, we're

574
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break, and when we come back,

575
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: we're going to roll through a few more of these

576
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: wonderful listener males that we've received. Thank you, thank you.

577
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: All right, we're back. All right. Well, here's the here's

578
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: one from our listener, Milan. Milan writes in in response

579
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: to our Talost episode. Uh, they say, Hi, I have

580
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: just one detail you didn't get particularly right. The word

581
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: robot is a now made by famous writer uh kpec

582
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: from the check verb robota, which means uh corvet. Sincerely

583
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: your listener, Milan. Now I I have to add here,

584
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: indeed robot does stim from the check word robota, which

585
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: means forced labor. And I was reading about this in

586
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: Brewers Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. Always a cool uh

587
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: source to have in play on on these these things. Uh.

588
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: The name comes indeed from the mechanical creatures in Carl

589
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: Capex play Are You Are? Or Rosum's Universal Robots, and

590
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: a nineteen twenty three production in London introduced it to

591
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: the English speech speaking world, and it was used in

592
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: reference to flying bombs of the Second World War as well.

593
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: Uh So uh, it is. It is kind of interesting

594
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: to trace the roots of this word, like how a

595
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: check word becomes popular among English speakers and then you know,

596
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: throughout the world. I also have to say that I'd

597
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: previously read that the term comes from a check word

598
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: roboto nick, which, interestingly enough, the villain in the Sonic

599
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: the Hedgehogs game is Dr Evo Eggman Robotic, which I

600
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: had forgotten about. He's the big mustachioed guy in the

601
00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: various mechanical machines. Wondered. So he's he's like a sphere

602
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: here with legs and a mustache. He's like an egg man. Yeah.

603
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: Why is he a robot or does he just make robots?

604
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: Is he human? Is he a sentient egg? How deeply

605
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: dare we dive into the mythos of Sonic the Hedgehog.

606
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but I do have fun memories of

607
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: playing those games. I never beat them, but I you know,

608
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: it's always always fun to zip the critters around in

609
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: the first couple of levels before it became too difficult. Yeah,

610
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: fast moving. Okay, We've got another short email from our listener, Joshua,

611
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: who's who writes in with the subject line this is

612
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: a good attention getter. Were Wolves spotted in Vietnam. Joshua Rides,

613
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: Hey guys, longtime listener and huge fan here, just wanted

614
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: to thank you for the introduction to the game Where Wolf.

615
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: I'm currently staying in a hostel in the tiny village

616
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: of Ta Von in Vietnam, and it was a great

617
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: icebreaker with all the other travelers as the coals burned low. Sadly,

618
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: the villagers always triumphed, but there's always tomorrow night. Man.

619
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: That's different than our game where the Werewolves won most

620
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: of the time. Probably has to do with different numbers

621
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: of players, right, We were like at the bare minimum

622
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 1: of villagers to actually have a game, but but glad

623
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: to hear your villagers could put up a fighting chance. Uh,

624
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 1: Joshua continues. The work you all do is amazing. Thanks

625
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: to everyone who makes this podcast possible. You've been faithful

626
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: companions on many long airplane and bus rides as well

627
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: as just nights at home. You're valued and appreciated. Really

628
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: keep up the good work. Thank you so much for

629
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: saying so, Joshua that is it's so nice to hear

630
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: and and really glad to hear we're helping you make

631
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: friends on your travels. All right, here's another one. This

632
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: one comes to us from Jake titled Big Fans. Hi, guys,

633
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of the podcast. Started listening when

634
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: I heard my favorite author are Scott Baker would be

635
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: on and have been enjoying it ever since. Funny story,

636
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: I listened to your episode about various mind controlling parasites

637
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: with my eight year old daughter Molly. She really enjoyed it,

638
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: and even though it freaked her out a little, she

639
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: later asked to listen to more with me. So next

640
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 1: we listened to the Talos episode, which I was really

641
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: enjoying until you started to talk about how Taalos would

642
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 1: immolate people with a hug and a huge grin. No ha,

643
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: I loved it, but it was too much for Molly,

644
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: and she wanted a new one and said they really

645
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 1: have a way of making everything dark. They do. Indeed, Molly, oh,

646
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like we don't go out of

647
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: our way to do that. But well, yeah, I we'll discuss, uh. So,

648
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: Jake continues, So I picked one that sounded like a nice,

649
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: easy one for the Winter People Part one. Everything was

650
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: going well until you started talking about Santa Claus and

651
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: I could tell trouble was coming by the excitement in

652
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: your voice as you said, have you heard the original

653
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 1: stories about St. Nicholas? Oh? I thought they only get

654
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: that excited when they were about to say something horrifying.

655
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: And sure enough, you dove right into the evil innkeeper

656
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: who chops up children and pickles their body parts. But

657
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: it had a happy ending they get resurrected. Well. Oh yeah,

658
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: suffice to say I was asked to stop it in

659
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: no uncertain terms. Anyway, it cracked me up that she

660
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: packed you eyes as being drawn to the dark side

661
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: of things. Definitely true and definitely part of why I

662
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: enjoy your show so much. Keep it up. I'll be listening.

663
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: But I can't say the same for Molly. Regards Jake, Well,

664
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to have scared her off. I hope maybe

665
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: she'll come back and enjoy the few in the show

666
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: in the future when she's older. Maybe. Well, but Jake's

667
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: listening because it's dark. He likes the darkness. Um, yeah,

668
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: you know, I have. I guess we do try to

669
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,479
Speaker 1: keep it fairly light. Uh. You know, some topics allow

670
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: us to do that better than others. Uh, some topics

671
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 1: kind of floorists with the dark content. You know, we don't.

672
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: We don't always set out to make a an episode

673
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: that reveals the you know, the dark, hidden nature of humanity.

674
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: But sometimes it's hiding there, just ready to jump at

675
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: you and drag you down to the ground. Well, I'd

676
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: say in both of these cases, we didn't make up

677
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: these stories, folks. These are very old myths that have

678
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: been around longer than us. I will say on the

679
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: Santa Clause issue at the Brown the same time we're

680
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: recording this, I was I wrote an article for how

681
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: Stuff works dot com about the kind of delightful history

682
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: and cultural usage of Santa Claus. So there is that

683
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: lighter side to me regarding the jolly old health, even

684
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: if it wasn't present in that episode. Maybe I was

685
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: letting my my holiday fatigue shine through a little bit.

686
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. Anyway, Thanks for writing in, Jake, It's

687
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: great to hear from you. Okay, we are receiving one

688
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: here from our listener, Mary, who writes us about a

689
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: recent Vault episode we featured or wait, did we feature

690
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: this from the Vault? I don't think we did, did we?

691
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: This is just an old episode? What's the episode? The

692
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: episode is the Science of Coincidence. Oh no, it's just

693
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: a coincidence. We haven't to republish that one yet. This

694
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: was my first episode of Stuff to Plow your Mind,

695
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: or at least the first one I recorded, maybe not

696
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: the first one that aired, but this still I think

697
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: remains one of my favorites. We where we talked about

698
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: what's really going on when you think synchronicity is happening

699
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: in the world. And so anyway, Mary writes in about

700
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 1: this episode, She says, quote, I've been slowly catching upon podcasts,

701
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: and I just finished listening to the Science of Coincidence.

702
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: When you began talking about the scientist around whom machines

703
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: always seemed to break down, I believe that's Wolfgang Polly,

704
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: I think. She continues, I was reminded of a fun

705
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: coincidence that happened to me in college. In one of

706
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: my physics labs, one of my partners was a professional juggler.

707
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: This particular day, we were doing the experiment to prove

708
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: the speed and acceleration in which different objects fall. Basically,

709
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: we were testing gravity. Everyone else in the lab was

710
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: getting perfect results on every drop they tested. We, on

711
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: the other hand, could not get a consistent result. To

712
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: save our lives, our tapes showed gaps and bunches that

713
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: should absolutely not be occurring. Parenthetical. We were using equipment

714
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 1: and sent electric pulses out as things fell, theoretically marking

715
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: a special sort of tape that was stretched up to

716
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: the height of the device. I cannot remember its name.

717
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 1: After the third or fourth erroneous result, we began joke

718
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: about how our juggler was messing with our results. After

719
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: twenty minutes without a clean fall, we threw him out

720
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 1: of the lab. As soon as he stepped out the door,

721
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 1: we got all of our tapes. All of our falls

722
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: went perfectly. It became an incredibly easy experiment at that point.

723
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: Once we had all the data we had to have,

724
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 1: we let our juggler back in. Once again, our tape

725
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: started showing odd gaps and bunches. When we wrote up

726
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: our conclusions, in addition to the ones that the professor expected,

727
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: our group added based on our observations, we have concluded

728
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,959
Speaker 1: that objects do not fall according to the accepted laws

729
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: of gravity when in the presence of a professional juggler.

730
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: We included all of our tapes marking the ones where

731
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: he left the room. The professor had been present for

732
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: the whole lab, so he was in on the joke.

733
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: We got an a on that one. Just a fun coincidence,

734
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: I thought i'd share. Never found an explanation for it

735
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 1: other than jugglers are weird. I love stuff like that.

736
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 1: I wonder if, now what you could go two ways

737
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: with the explanation there. You could say that the correlation

738
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: between the juggler's presence and the failure of the experiments

739
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: was just actually a coincidence, there was no, uh no,

740
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: no causation there. Or you could say that the juggler

741
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: was doing something that was messing up your recording equipment

742
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: or somehow otherwise interfering with the experiment. Or maybe it

743
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: was simply meant to be. This was a design juggler

744
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: whose presence was written in the stars. Yeah, I mean,

745
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: I think about having I don't know exactly how the

746
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: setup worked, so it could be things like having magnetic

747
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: elements on one's clothing or in one's backpack or you know,

748
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:42,879
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But yeah, it's hard to know for sure. Interesting, Well,

749
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: I have one here from James, and I have to

750
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: say this is this maybe the first time, but I'm

751
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: excited to read a listener male about pronunciation. Oh boy,

752
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: because this one's actually this one's enlightening U and actually

753
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: ties in really nicely with the episode. They're responding to

754
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: our our episode on the months ferocity cuteness scale. The

755
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: idea that's something that is that is cute or it's monstrous.

756
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: This is all a slider. Essentially, this is all spectrum, uh,

757
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: and that is why things transition from one to the

758
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: other so easily. So James writes in and says, Hi, there, guys,

759
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: really love your work. The recent episode about Machine God

760
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: kind of did my head in great episode. I just

761
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 1: wanted to mention something from the Monstrosity Cuteness Scale episode.

762
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: I didn't mention this earlier because I didn't want to

763
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: be petty and I really expected a lot of people

764
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 1: to mention it, and I didn't want to pile on. However,

765
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: I have a small pronunciation note between the Japanese words

766
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: kauai and kauai. That's an a versus within an oh

767
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: in terms of you know the sound a number of

768
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: times when meaning to say kauai, meaning cute, instead you

769
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: said kauai, which means scary. Both are very common words,

770
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: but very different in meaning and considering the episode was

771
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: about things which are kauai over time turning kauai. It

772
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,439
Speaker 1: really threw me for a loop a few time. Still

773
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: a really excellent episode, though, thanks again for all your work. Now,

774
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,439
Speaker 1: I certainly never meant to pronounce the word coy ever

775
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: in the episode, But I'm going to maybe chalk this

776
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 1: up to our Tennessee accents, under which these vowel sounds

777
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 1: get kind of both get conflated to the uh sound,

778
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: right co if we're talking fast and being East Tennessee,

779
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: ear's kouai and kauai kind of both become ki. Yeah, yeah,

780
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: I think that may be part of it, but I

781
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: think it is. It is interesting that did any mispronunciations

782
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: or um our perceivedness pronunciations were so thematically appropriate in

783
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 1: this case, you know, the the idea that these two uh,

784
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: two words essentially words for cuteness and monstrosity could be

785
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: so closely uh a line that could resemble each other

786
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: so so so nicely. Well, I didn't even know that

787
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: before we got this email, But that makes me wonder

788
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: if we're having uh lexical determinism here in the culture,

789
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: as if the you know, the phonetic similarity of these

790
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: words actually leads to a linking of the concepts in

791
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: the cultural consciousness. Well, well, maybe it would make sense

792
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: within Japanese culture, right, but then you have you have

793
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: examples of this taking place outside of Japanese culture as well.

794
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: So I don't know, but it's wonderful food for thought

795
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 1: and uh and thus my excitement to read it. Okay,

796
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: next very simple one that I think we should read

797
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: for totally self serving reasons. Benjamin writes to say thank you.

798
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: He says, thank you guys for a great podcast, my

799
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: deepest appreciation, all the way from Norway, wondering how I

800
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: can donate some money for you to buy some snacks

801
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: or drinks. I might just end up doing it. Have

802
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: a wonderful New Year's Benjamin. And then you sent him

803
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: our Swiss bank account details right exactly, I sent him

804
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: our Cheddar bank account. No, we currently do not have

805
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 1: anyway for you to send us money directly, and that's

806
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,479
Speaker 1: how it should be. You know, the show's free to you.

807
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: You don't need to pay us for it. You just listen.

808
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: There's no official merchandise right now, so you can't do

809
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: that either. Maybe in the future, in the future, but

810
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: right now, you can't. That's not an option for supporting

811
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: the show. But this is a great place for us

812
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: to let you know there are some free things you

813
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: can do to support the show if you want to,

814
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: just a few suggestions. As always, give us a positive

815
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: rating and review on the platforms where you listen to us,

816
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: whether that's iTunes, Stitch or whatever. A thoughtful review where

817
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: you talk about what you like about the show is

818
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: going to be more helpful than just some stars floating

819
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: in the void without words. Uh. If you're in a

820
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: position to do business with our advertisers, use our promo

821
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: codes when you do it, and uh if in any

822
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: white if it's possible for you to do it, let

823
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: them know that you heard about them through us. Share

824
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: here's a big one. Share and interact positively with our

825
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,959
Speaker 1: posts on social media. A lot of people probably aren't

826
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 1: aware that social media works this way. But if you're

827
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: like us and you've got a page with a bunch

828
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: of followers and you post something, it doesn't go to

829
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: all your followers. The social media platforms they kind of

830
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 1: want to keep you hostage, so they will show your

831
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: followers your posts at a at a rate to determine

832
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: buy how much you pay them to do it. And

833
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: if you don't want to pay them anything, you're not

834
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: going to be reaching most of your followers unless people

835
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: start commenting on and sharing those posts. So that's a

836
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: really easy way to help us reach more people and

837
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 1: help the show. Just do positive, good quality engagement like things,

838
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: share things and so forth. Yeah, you can collectively reach

839
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: more people than than we can with our account totally.

840
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: Even more important than social media is word of mouth.

841
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: Just if you know somebody who you think would like

842
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 1: our show, tell them about it. Yeah, as you're walking

843
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: down the street, just start screaming the name of the show,

844
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: right and and hopefully people will listen to you. You know,

845
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: write it on the on the walls of bathroom stalls

846
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: with sharpies. No, don't do that, but but you know,

847
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: just generally spread the word. If if if we share

848
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: some sort of cool idea, uh, you know, share that

849
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 1: cool idea with with with other people busted out at

850
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: cocktail parties and uh and and then maybe you know,

851
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: give recommendation on top of that. Yeah. Also, if you've

852
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: got a platform of your own, whether that's a podcast, blog,

853
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: video series, whatever you might be doing. Uh, and you

854
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: think your followers might dig us. Let them know about us.

855
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: That helps too. Yeah, so stuff to blow your mind

856
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 1: theme birthday parties. I'm just spit balling at this point,

857
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: but yeah, there's a lot of stuff you can do,

858
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: uh that it doesn't cost a time that actually helps

859
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: us out immensely. How about stuff to blow your mind

860
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: themed retirement parties? Sure? Yeah, I mean you can use

861
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,879
Speaker 1: the basically the same cake designed too. You could form

862
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind themed countries. Yeah, yeah, perhaps

863
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: maybe in the virtual realm, you know. Okay, So yeah,

864
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: that's about it for now. Can't send us any money,

865
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: but there are are things you can do if you

866
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 1: like the show and you want to give us a boost.

867
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: All right, here's another one. This one comes to us

868
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: from Duncan Duncan Rights and and says, Hi, there, I

869
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: was just listening to the Dangerous Foods three episode and

870
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: the question was asked whether octopy actually specifically evolved to

871
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 1: use choking as a defense mechanism. Although I can't definitively

872
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: to this, I was reminded of an episode of Blue Planet.

873
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: To this, of course, is the great one of the

874
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: great Attenborough nature documentaries, in which an octopus was attacked

875
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: by a shark. As the shark attempted to eat the octopus,

876
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 1: it forced its tentacles into the shark's throat and out

877
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: through the shark's gills, stopping it from breathing. This forced

878
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: the shark to let go of the octopus, which escaped

879
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: and survived the encounter. This strongly suggests to me that

880
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 1: the answer is, yes, well worth worth watching the show

881
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: if you haven't already. So this makes me think of

882
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: in the old cartoons when you would see like a

883
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: giant shark or something like that trying to eat bugs,

884
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: bunny or whatever other crafty cartoon hero. They would like

885
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 1: put their feet on both sides of its mouth and

886
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: like you know, spread spread their feet apart to like

887
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: wedge there so that they couldn't be eaten. Kind like that, Yeah,

888
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 1: I think so, But basically the same the same ideas

889
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: in play. And this of course is not to be

890
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: confused with the scene in Lucio Fulci's Zombie in which

891
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: an aquatic zombie battles um shark briefly right, so that

892
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: is one of the great scenes in cinematic history. You've

893
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: got my gears turn in next October. There will definitely

894
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: be a science of fulchy episode. It's like, what what

895
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: are the thermodynamics of human melting? It's mostly going to

896
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: be a bunch of medical journal articles about I stabbing,

897
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: I think, and the actual science behind that. I love

898
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: the way we laugh. Oh, I stabbing? Okay. We recently

899
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 1: did a vault episode version of our old episode on

900
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: a Fantasia, the Blindness of the Mind's Eye, and our

901
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 1: listener Lucy wrote in to get in touch about that.

902
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: As always, we love to hear from people who have

903
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 1: direct experience with this, and so Lucy wrote the following,

904
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: Hey guys, I've just listened to the episode on a

905
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: Fantasia and parts of it made me laugh. I'm twenty

906
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: five and only last year I came across this term

907
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,800
Speaker 1: and realized that other people see things when they close

908
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 1: their eyes and try to imagine it. When I was

909
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 1: in primary school and they would sometimes get us to

910
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,919
Speaker 1: close our eyes and imagine a scene described to us,

911
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: I genuinely thought that the teachers were just trying to

912
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: kill some time. You know, Lucy, that might have been.

913
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: That might have been the case, even though the other

914
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,399
Speaker 1: children did have a vivid mind's eye. But going on,

915
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how hard I try to see the image,

916
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: it never appears. And the harder I tried, the more

917
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: frustrated I get, and the more frustrated, the further away

918
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: I feel from the possibility of seeing something. It's like

919
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: you know what you're supposed to be seeing what without

920
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: actually physically seeing it. As for hallucinations, I can confirm

921
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: that it is possible for people with a fantasia to

922
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 1: experience visual hallucinations. I have experienced a couple of psychotic

923
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: episodes which included visual hallucinations. Looking back on them, it

924
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: was like I was miss seeing what was in front

925
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: of me. So, for example, I would think any small

926
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: inconsistencies in the walls were buttons to press. It had

927
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: been snowing and there was grit on the ground, but

928
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 1: on top of the snow it looked to me like

929
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 1: blood and dns in the snow, and I thought there

930
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:07,320
Speaker 1: were reindeer footprints. When you were talking about doing things

931
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: you would have to visualize to do, I struggled with

932
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: this a bit. I do agility with my dog and

933
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 1: it training. If we're told to do a sequence before

934
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: doing it, everyone else will picture what to do in

935
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 1: their heads, but for me, I need to physically do

936
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,439
Speaker 1: something to remember it. So I will stand and look

937
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: at the section we're working on and will move my

938
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: arms slightly the one I would use to direct my

939
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: dog at that point for me to remember to go

940
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: and do it. Interestingly enough, I'm always the one at

941
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 1: class that remembers the courses the easiest. Great podcast, and

942
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed listening to it. Lucy. Oh, very interesting,

943
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Lucy. Yeah, that's interesting that, um A

944
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 1: fantasia could contribute to different learning styles. When you when

945
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 1: you need to like memorize a pattern of movements or something,

946
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: you can't visualize yourself doing it, I have to throw

947
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 1: in that. I think every month or two I quiz

948
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: my son again to try and determine if he can

949
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: make visual images in his mind. I'll say, so, if

950
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: you close your eyes and think about a hedgehog, can

951
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: you see a hedgehog? And he'll tell me yes or no,

952
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: And it's it's kind of you don't want to lead

953
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: them too much on these questions, but I'm continually curious

954
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 1: about how he how about his perceptions of his own

955
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: inner world? Can he see one? I'm pretty sure he can't. Yeah,

956
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: But early on when I was asking about it, I

957
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: think he didn't understand what I was talking about, and

958
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: I got answers that were more negative. Well, I mean, again,

959
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 1: the it's kind of odd trying to describe the phenomenon here,

960
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: because when I imagine a visual image, I'm not seeing

961
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: it the way I see stuff with my eyes. Uh,

962
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: So it's kind of odd to try to define what

963
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: that kind of seeing is. It's not the same as

964
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,240
Speaker 1: seeing with the eyes. It's not seeing in the same

965
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: place as seeing with the eyes. It's more like having

966
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 1: an awareness of the visual qualities of a concept without

967
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 1: having that concept in front of you. Yeah. You know,

968
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: when when I when I've talked to my my son

969
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: about consciousness, he has described what he calls his turning place.

970
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: You've told he has the He says that he can

971
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: remember anything. He just has to like bring the memory

972
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 1: out into his turning place and then he he remembers it,

973
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,720
Speaker 1: which is which is wonderful. I mean, that's he's basically

974
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: describing consciousness the Cartesian theater. Yeah. Uh, speaking of consciousness,

975
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: I want to read a quick listener mail here from Chris.

976
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 1: Chris writes in and says, I'm sure someone has already

977
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 1: sent this to you, but in case not, I figured

978
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: to pass it along. The New York Public Library recently

979
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 1: reposted David Bowie's list of his one favorite books, and

980
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 1: right up there among some classics and avant garde British

981
00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: fiction is Julian Jayne's Origin of Consciousness at number twenty one.

982
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: I wonder if Bowie sensed or channeled a voice in

983
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 1: his head through his various personas, and he provides the

984
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 1: link and says, in any case, thanks for making the podcast.

985
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,439
Speaker 1: It's always super interesting and I appreciate the hour long

986
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: dives into curiosity for curiosity's sake amid the exhausting news

987
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 1: cycle these days, keep up a good work. I took

988
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: a look at this list. For a rock star, Bowie

989
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 1: has a very intellectual book list. Yeah, well, I really

990
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 1: one would expect that, right, I mean, but he's Bowie.

991
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 1: He's not just any rock star. And I'm intrigued by

992
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: this idea of the bicameral Bowie. I'm gonna have to

993
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: listen to a bunch of Bowie songs with the bicameral

994
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: mind in mind, and uh and and see what what

995
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: I find. I'll probably find something because recently I've been.

996
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: I was driving in the car. I turned on uh

997
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: like an oldie station and they played um Pink Floyd's

998
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: Comfortably Numb, and for a brief second, like idly listening

999
00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:59,479
Speaker 1: to the lyrics, I'm like, oh man, this is totally

1000
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: about bike cameralism. This is this is what this song

1001
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: is about. And then I had a little more time

1002
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: to process, and I'm like, no, no, that's just because

1003
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it all the time. And and then

1004
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,439
Speaker 1: I listened to Comfortably None. Well, now that I'm thinking

1005
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: about it, hold on a second, is Ziggy Stardust to

1006
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: b camera being Maybe maybe I'm gonna I'm gonna have

1007
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: to bust out the greatest hits and find out. Okay,

1008
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: one last one from Carney. I think this is the

1009
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: perfect listener mail to end on this from our listener Liz,

1010
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: subject line chopping Mall. Liz says, Hi, y'all, so I

1011
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: just started listening to your episode called Talus the Bronze

1012
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 1: Automaton and stopped in my tracks when I heard the

1013
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 1: words chopping mall. As a teenager, there was an amazing

1014
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: video store a few blocks away that literally had everything.

1015
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: It was like the Library of Congress of movies. The

1016
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: horror section was formidable, and my best friend and I

1017
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: like to rent bad horror movies. This is a good

1018
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: way to form an adult personality. She continues. We happened

1019
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: upon Chopping Mall and watched it many times over the years.

1020
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: I still think about it and actually found a stream

1021
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 1: and watched it a few years ago. It is so amazing,

1022
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: and I'm glad to hear it has not been forgotten

1023
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: and is still appreciated in all of its awesome terrible nous.

1024
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: Hopefully some listeners will take it upon themselves to check

1025
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:24,399
Speaker 1: it out. Cheers Liz. Obviously, if you are a if

1026
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: you are a child listening right now, you should not

1027
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,919
Speaker 1: check out Chopping Mall. But if you're an adult who

1028
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: loves bad horror movies from the eighties, oh it's a

1029
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: good one. Yeah. Indeed, I watched it for the first

1030
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: time this this past year and we discussed it on

1031
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:39,280
Speaker 1: a trailer talk I believe, Yeah, and uh yeah, it's tremendous,

1032
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: tremendously fun eighties kill a Robot movie. Yeah, And of

1033
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: course it comes up in tell Us because Talus is

1034
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:49,479
Speaker 1: the legendary progenitor of the killer robots in chopping mall.

1035
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, this is a tremendous film, and I totally

1036
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: um agree with her on the wonders of the of

1037
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 1: the video store, both as a child and even as adult.

1038
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: I dropped by our local video store, video Drome, which

1039
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 1: is just down the street from the House Stuff Works

1040
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 1: office is just the other day to rent myself some

1041
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: creature from the Black Lagoon and uh. And of course

1042
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: the cinematic classic Leviathan. Leviathan, terrible movie, but great cast

1043
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: and great poster. Yeah. Yeah, Peter Weller robocopies the main

1044
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 1: dude in Leviathan. You can see him wearing a hat

1045
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 1: that nobody's ever worn before the moment he put it

1046
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,879
Speaker 1: on and walked on set. It's got Hector Alisando. I

1047
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: think it's got Daniel Stern. It's got Amanda Pays. It's

1048
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 1: got Richard Krena, doesn't it. I think you're right. Also,

1049
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: did you name the woman with the haunting eyes? Is

1050
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: that not Amanda Pays? No? No, this is uh. She's

1051
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: been in a number of genre films. I believe she

1052
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 1: was in They Live as well. Oh, Meg Foster, Oh yeah, yeah,

1053
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 1: she does have icy eyes. Yes, really, the greatest icy

1054
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: eyes of all time. It's got Ernie Hudson. Oh, Ernie Hudson.

1055
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: Who can forget Ernie Hudson. I mean it is just

1056
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: it's killer and it's one of those nine underwater movies. Yes,

1057
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 1: which I'm still that's a question I have for for

1058
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 1: listeners out there. Here's your homework. Figure out for us

1059
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: why there are so many underwater peril, underwater monster, uh,

1060
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: encounter movies that came out in eighty nine, because you

1061
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: have Leviathan, the Abyss, Deep Star six, Lords of the Deed. Yeah,

1062
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: all of its seeming to converge on eighty nine. And

1063
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: I don't I I for one don't know if it's

1064
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: is just because the Abyss was coming out and all

1065
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: these other lower budget films sort of hatched on like

1066
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 1: Lamprey's or was there something else going on in the

1067
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 1: culture because that made everyone make an underwater peril movie

1068
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: at that moment. I'd love to know the people are

1069
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: dying to find out exactly what a fantastic mail bag

1070
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 1: I just love hearing from me all out there. Yeah, yeah,

1071
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: so keep them coming. We're gonna try and do these

1072
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 1: more regularly, uh these days, like maybe once a month,

1073
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: maybe once every couple of months, we'll see how it

1074
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: goes all right. So there you have it again, not

1075
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: all the listener mails that we've received, but just some

1076
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: of the ones that we thought were We're pretty juicy

1077
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: and needed to be shared with other listeners. The rest

1078
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 1: of you can continue to write in righte in in

1079
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: response to other listeners, or hey, go on to a

1080
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: Facebook find our Facebook group the discussion module and interact

1081
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: with the other fans directly cut us out entirely. We're

1082
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 1: just the middleman. Uh. Head on over to stuff to

1083
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com. That's we'll find all the episodes,

1084
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: as well as links out to those various social media

1085
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: accounts like Facebook, Like, Twitter, Like like Instagram. Thanks as

1086
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: always to our excellent producers Alex Williams and Tarry Harrison.

1087
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 1: And if you want to get in touch with us

1088
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: directly and maybe be featured on a future listener mail episode,

1089
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: you can email us at blow the Mind at how

1090
00:58:48,160 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this, thousands of

1091
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: other topics does it how stuff works dot com