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Speaker 1: Hey, ba fam, let's be real for a second, and

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Speaker 1: y'all know I keep it a book. The job market

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Speaker 1: has been brutal, now not brutal trash, especially for women

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Speaker 1: of color. Over three hundred thousand of us have disappeared

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Speaker 1: from the workforce this year alone, and not by choice,

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Speaker 1: but because of layoffs, disappearing DEI programs, and stagnant wages

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Speaker 1: that keep cutting us out of opportunity. Our unemployment rate

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Speaker 1: has jumped to over seven percent, while our pay gap

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Speaker 1: continues to widen. I know all of that sounds dire,

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Speaker 1: but here's what I want y'all to know. You do

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Speaker 1: not have to wait for the system to save you.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly why I created the Mandy money Makers Group

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Speaker 1: coaching community. It is a coaching community that is built

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Speaker 1: for us by us. Inside the community, we're not just

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Speaker 1: talking about how to negotiate or to how to get

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Speaker 1: the job that you want. It's about finding purpose in

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Speaker 1: your career. It's about finding communities and others, feeling seen,

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Speaker 1: feeling heard, and also having a sounding board and a

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Speaker 1: mirror to reflect your own magic, your own sparkle right

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Speaker 1: back to yourself. In this community, you'll get group coaching

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Speaker 1: led by me, but you also get peer to peer

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Speaker 1: accountability with proven tools and resources that can help you

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Speaker 1: do what we have always done since rise. Even when

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Speaker 1: the odds are stacked against us, despite all the challenges,

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Speaker 1: we will rise. If you're interested in joining the Mandy

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Speaker 1: money Makers community and having that support to bolster you

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Speaker 1: and help you tap back into your magic so that

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Speaker 1: you can lead your career with intention and heart and

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Speaker 1: your own intuition, trusting that again, please join us. You

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Speaker 1: can find information in the show notes of today's episodes

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Speaker 1: or go to mandymoney dot com slash community. That's Mandy

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Speaker 1: m a NDI money dot com slash community. I would

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Speaker 1: love to see y'all there. Enrollment is open, so please

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Speaker 1: go check out mandymoney dot com slash community today. Hey, Hey, vavam,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the wash Day Woosa. This is my favorite

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Speaker 1: time of the week when I get to sit across

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Speaker 1: the virtual stage from an incredible guest and just be

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Speaker 1: in conversation and hopefully leave y'all on your Sundays, whether

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Speaker 1: you are doing your deep condition, whether you are doing laundry,

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Speaker 1: or whether you're just laying down because you deserve with

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Speaker 1: a pile of laundry in the corner because that's fine,

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Speaker 1: and rest is resistance and all of that. However you're

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Speaker 1: spending this Sunday, just really happy to have you with us.

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Speaker 1: I Brown Ambition. We have a wonderful guest for you today,

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Speaker 1: BA fam. It's Muriel M. Wilcomes. She is the CEO

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Speaker 1: and founder of Paaravis Partners, a leadership advisory firm that

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Speaker 1: has guided C suite yes, c suite okay, big big

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Speaker 1: time leadership executives across industries from tech, finance and media.

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Speaker 1: She's also the host. You may recognize her voice. She

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Speaker 1: hosts the Harvard Business Reviews Award winning podcast Coaching Real Leaders,

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Speaker 1: where she takes listeners inside real coaching sessions with senior

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Speaker 1: professionals navigating career crossroads. It's really great. I love getting

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Speaker 1: to hear the voices of people you know, going through

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Speaker 1: it and hearing Muriel's advice to them. But she is

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Speaker 1: here today because she's a brand new book out, y'all,

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Speaker 1: and I know that bea fan. We love our leadership books.

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Speaker 1: We love learning about our finances and just learning about

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Speaker 1: anything that can help us get out of our own

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Speaker 1: damn way. And if I could describe this book That's

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Speaker 1: how I would describe it. It is the leader's guide

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Speaker 1: to getting out of your Way, but it also has

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Speaker 1: its own wonderful title. It's called Leadership Unblocked, break Through

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Speaker 1: the Beliefs that limit your potential. Here we go. If

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Speaker 1: you're watching on YouTube, I'm also, of course going to

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Speaker 1: put a link in the show notes, and again, welcome

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Speaker 1: my guest, Muriel m. Welcomes to the show. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Brown Ambition.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Mandy. I now think I should I think

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Speaker 2: how I should have named this book. It should have

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Speaker 2: been get the Hell out of your Own Way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I put a hell in there, I said, damn.

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Speaker 2: But ye oh, damn exactly. I like that even better.

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Speaker 1: Kids are off to college now mom, can you know,

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Speaker 1: Mom can cuss a little bit?

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Speaker 2: It's okay, yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: So this is the first book that you've written on

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Speaker 1: your own. You've co authored another book, So tell us

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Speaker 1: about it, like, how did this book come to be?

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Speaker 1: And what what's like the key? What are you hoping

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Speaker 1: people get out of it? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, gosh, you know, I wrote the first co wrote

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Speaker 2: the first book back. It came out in twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 2: and I swore Mandy that I would never write another

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Speaker 2: book again. Really like, no, I mean, I've never set

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Speaker 2: out to be. I don't even like to call myself

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Speaker 2: an author, right. I think I am an idea generator,

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Speaker 2: and I think I have, or I've been told I

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Speaker 2: have an ability to kind of turn ideas into reality,

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Speaker 2: which is probably why I'm an executive coach. And so yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was such an arduous process that I was like,

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Speaker 2: I don't need this in my life again, I'm not

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Speaker 2: doing it. But then there was this idea that kind

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Speaker 2: of kept coming up for me around how much, you know,

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Speaker 2: we tend to move to doing and actions when we

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Speaker 2: want something different, and yet it's not sustainable because while

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Speaker 2: we try to change things on the outside of us,

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Speaker 2: or even try to change what we're doing, the internal

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Speaker 2: hasn't necessarily caught up within by the internal, I mean,

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Speaker 2: the beliefs. And I was seeing this happen a lot

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Speaker 2: with my own coaching clients. Quite frankly, I was going

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Speaker 2: through a parallel path and seeing it in myself as well.

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Speaker 2: And I just found that that conversation about the internal

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Speaker 2: work wasn't really happening in the workplace, And you know,

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Speaker 2: the idea just kept nagging at me and I finally

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Speaker 2: had to address it, which is what the book is

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Speaker 2: all about.

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Speaker 1: So talk to me about that. I love getting into

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Speaker 1: the nitty gritty, the vulnerable, the messy middle. I crave

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Speaker 1: converse about the process and like the being in it

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Speaker 1: rather than like and here's a solution. But so bring

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Speaker 1: me to that headspace. So like when you're when you're

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Speaker 1: having a struggle, it's like, Okay, how can I what

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Speaker 1: can I do? Or who can I hire? Or what

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Speaker 1: can I get?

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Speaker 2: What tool?

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Speaker 1: What system do I need to fix this?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'll share my own example, which is how

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Speaker 2: I start off the book as sort of sharing my

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Speaker 2: story from years ago when I had reached you know,

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Speaker 2: I was on the corporate track back then, and I

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Speaker 2: had reached a very senior level position reporting to the CEO,

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Speaker 2: had a very high mandate, and I was getting the

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Speaker 2: business results. Like quite frankly, it was painful. I was

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Speaker 2: struggling with my peers. I was going home every day

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Speaker 2: extremely frustrated and complaining about everyone else and what they

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Speaker 2: were not doing or what they were doing. Very much

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Speaker 2: exerting all of my energy on trying to control everything,

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Speaker 2: the situation, the people, the meetings, the emails, all the things,

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Speaker 2: and my partner one night said to me, did you

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Speaker 2: ever think that maybe the problem is you and not them?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's rude.

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Speaker 2: I'm still and I'm still with I don't like him.

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Speaker 2: I did not either, and of course I was like, what,

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Speaker 2: like you you don't know what you're talking about. I

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Speaker 2: had some notes, right, like, the frustration kept happening, and

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Speaker 2: I think what tends to happen to your point around

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Speaker 2: will like when when does the not the breakthrough, but

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Speaker 2: the beginning of the process happen. The beginning of the

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Speaker 2: process happens when you know, using the cliche, you get

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Speaker 2: tired of being tired and you realize that all the

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Speaker 2: things you're trying to do and the things that you're

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Speaker 2: trying to control, it's still not leading you to where

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Speaker 2: you want to be. And what I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: where I want it to be is I wanted to

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Speaker 2: achieve the results that I was achieving, but I wanted

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Speaker 2: to do it with it being less painful for myself.

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Speaker 2: And so it took me a couple of years to

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Speaker 2: finally say, well, you know, maybe I should take a

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Speaker 2: look at me. And so that is the beginning of

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Speaker 2: the process, and when you look at you, it's not

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Speaker 2: just looking at what you're doing, it's looking at why

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Speaker 2: am I doing what I'm doing. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: this is not grounded in like murial talk. Nothing that

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Speaker 2: I'm sharing in this book is new. It's really grounded

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Speaker 2: in research, It's grounded in wisdom, teachings from eons, It's

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Speaker 2: grounded in so many schools of thought, psychology, neuroscience, leadership development.

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Speaker 2: But there are some interesting studies that show that there

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Speaker 2: is such an impact around what we think about what

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Speaker 2: we're doing and how much that impacts our outcomes, not

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Speaker 2: just what it is that we do. And so this

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Speaker 2: whole notion of what we think about what we're doing,

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Speaker 2: what do we call them their beliefs? And so that

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Speaker 2: led me down this path of really identifying, well, what

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Speaker 2: are the beliefs that we have about the way that

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Speaker 2: we lead that may actually be counter productive and getting

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Speaker 2: in the way of us leading effectively just like I was,

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Speaker 2: and actually making us lead in a way that is

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Speaker 2: so much more painful than it needs to be, not

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Speaker 2: only for ourselves, but for all the other people that

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Speaker 2: we're working with as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a lot of parallels between like

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Speaker 1: leadership best practices and parenting best practices. And as a

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Speaker 1: new mom, I'm a young mom, you're in the elite.

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Speaker 1: You have like a pdhpd PhD PhDd.

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Speaker 2: Whether they make it through the next four years.

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Speaker 1: They're in college or friends, you get an AA plus.

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Speaker 1: I have babies. I have a two year old in

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Speaker 1: a five year old, and I have I've had to

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Speaker 1: like no one gives you a rule book or like

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Speaker 1: a guide book when you just are like, here's your baby,

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Speaker 1: give us your insurance card, congratulations your mom now, and

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Speaker 1: then you find out what your beliefs about parenting are

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Speaker 1: and even know I had beliefs about it. But then,

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Speaker 1: like life, society, your own upbringing, you form these beliefs,

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Speaker 1: but you don't like, you don't really know them until

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Speaker 1: you're thrown into the fire. And I think that happens

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Speaker 1: with leaders too, right. Sometimes you work, work, work, you

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Speaker 1: get the opportunity or you're thrust into the opportunity or

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Speaker 1: whatever happens. But it's not like they say, and you're

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Speaker 1: going to go away for three months and do some

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Speaker 1: prep work. We're going to elect work through all of this.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's it's helpful. Yeah, if you're in

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Speaker 1: that position to like take a step back, and you're

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Speaker 1: really inviting, I feel like in the book, inviting us

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Speaker 1: to give ourselves time to ask these questions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And Mandy, you know it's I love that

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Speaker 2: you said that there's parallels between leadership and parenting. There

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Speaker 2: absolutely is, because what are we dealing with? I mean,

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Speaker 2: you're dealing with human beings, So it's just in a

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Speaker 2: different context. And you know, I'll share that my journey

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Speaker 2: actually to even be becoming interested in this type of

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Speaker 2: work did come out of parenting. There's a book that

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Speaker 2: I read very early on in my parenting journey. I

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Speaker 2: think it might have even been before I had kids,

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Speaker 2: I can't remember, or soon thereafter. It's a book called

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Speaker 2: Conscious Parenting by doctor Shefali Sebekiah. I love that book,

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Speaker 2: and I quote her in this leadership book. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but it is exactly that right that completely changed or

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Speaker 2: actually has driven my approach to parenting, which is, let

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Speaker 2: me a right, like, let me let me if I

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Speaker 2: if I actually, uh perceive my kids to actually be

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Speaker 2: here as teachers to me, how does that change the

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Speaker 2: paradigm if I do not see it as this hierarchical ownership.

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Speaker 2: Like I even cringe now as saying my kids. You know,

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Speaker 2: I say it because that's the way other people understand them.

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Speaker 2: But I did not consider them my kids. I don't

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Speaker 2: consider that I rate exactly I'm own them, right, I

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Speaker 2: don't own them. I have I have literally been the

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Speaker 2: usher to get them to this place, you know, and

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Speaker 2: it just so happens, and so there is those are

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Speaker 2: all beliefs, and those beliefs then drive the way that

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Speaker 2: I behave and act in accordance to that. Parenting well,

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Speaker 2: my whole thing was like, man, there's so much power

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Speaker 2: in that that we talk about in parenting, we talk

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Speaker 2: about it in relationships. We don't talk about it at work.

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Speaker 2: We don't talk about how the same notion transfers to work, which, oh,

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Speaker 2: by the way, is the place that we spend most

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Speaker 2: of our time, and where are we having an impact

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Speaker 2: on others, particularly if you're in a leadership role.

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Speaker 1: You know, my parents did the best they could, and

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Speaker 1: my mom especially was like, you know, a wonderful mother.

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Speaker 1: And then I but at the same time, like a

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Speaker 1: lot of us will learn what not to do from

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Speaker 1: our parents. Oh, I didn't like that, so let me

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Speaker 1: do this different and for me early in my career,

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Speaker 1: I had a string of micromanagering bosses and I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'm not going to do the first

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Speaker 1: time anyone gives me a moticum of power, I don't

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Speaker 1: care if I'm managing an intern. I'm going to give

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Speaker 1: them autonomy and let them know that I trust them,

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Speaker 1: and like, just it's not the best way to learn

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Speaker 1: how to be a leader. But I did delean a lot.

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Speaker 1: And so when I had my first opportunity to lead,

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Speaker 1: I was young. I was like twenty six, and I

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Speaker 1: had left I was a journalist, I was a reporter,

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Speaker 1: and I had an opportunity to join a startup and

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Speaker 1: I and be the content director. I jumped at it

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Speaker 1: because I felt like I had something to offer in

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Speaker 1: terms of leadership, and I knew that I wasn't gonna

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Speaker 1: I'd have to wait a long long time I get

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Speaker 1: that opportunity, had I stayed, and then when I was

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Speaker 1: thrust into it, I got my first reporter and I

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Speaker 1: remember being like so excited. I was like, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to treat you right, and like, do you think like

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Speaker 1: if just as a reflection to reflect on what are

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Speaker 1: the time, even if you're like new to management, Like,

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Speaker 1: what are the times in your career when you really

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Speaker 1: didn't like the way you were treated?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, liked it? And if you can just start from there,

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Speaker 1: you can start to like form your own beliefs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think there are different ways

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Speaker 2: of learning, right. I always joke that because I was

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Speaker 2: the last of for not joke, it's actually serious. Like before,

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Speaker 2: because I was the last of four kids, I am

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Speaker 2: an observer learner, So I look, I was always looking

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Speaker 2: to see what was happening with my sisters, and I

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Speaker 2: learned from there, like what would get me in trouble,

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Speaker 2: what would not get me in trouble? Right? And the rules?

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Speaker 2: And I think the same holds true for in any

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Speaker 2: aspect of life, you know. I think so you can

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Speaker 2: you can form those beliefs based on what you see

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Speaker 2: from others, or you can form them just from your

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Speaker 2: own experience. I think what's important is, whether you are

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Speaker 2: a new manager, established manager, wherever you are in your career,

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Speaker 2: is to recognize that none of the beliefs that drive

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Speaker 2: the behavior. So for example, for you, when you're like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to micromanage that, you know, what drives

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Speaker 2: that is potentially, I don't know, for you, it might

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Speaker 2: be you know, people deserve their autonomy and flexibility, right,

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Speaker 2: and that belief or that value then drives the behavior

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Speaker 2: of not micromanaging but rather delegating a lot. Here's what's

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Speaker 2: tea though. We have to understand that none of the

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Speaker 2: beliefs that we have are bad because at some point

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Speaker 2: they served us. That micromanager who has that belief of

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Speaker 2: I need to be involved in all the things which,

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Speaker 2: by the way, I have suffered from at times. The

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Speaker 2: reason they have is because at some point, and probably

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Speaker 2: for a very long time, that belief actually served them

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Speaker 2: really really well. It made them successful. You know. The

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Speaker 2: issue is now they're in a situation where it doesn't

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Speaker 2: make them successful or it makes everybody else's life not

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Speaker 2: feel successful. And I think one of the things that's

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Speaker 2: really important is you grow, whether it's as a leader,

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Speaker 2: as a parent, in a relation, as an adult. Is

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Speaker 2: the ability to flex right, the ability to be adaptable.

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Speaker 2: We have such a much better chance of dealing with

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Speaker 2: the complexities of anything we're dealing with, whether it be

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Speaker 2: work or otherwise, if we have flexibility and range. And

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Speaker 2: so what I'm proposing here is even if you're a

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Speaker 2: new manager. It's not that you have to pick one

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Speaker 2: or the other, right I need to be involved or

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Speaker 2: I shouldn't be involved. It's knowing that you have the

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Speaker 2: choice between the two, and you should be assessing the

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Speaker 2: situations and saying, okay, depending on the outcome that I'm

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Speaker 2: looking to drive to, which one or any of them,

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Speaker 2: you know in the gradient, which one should I hold

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Speaker 2: on to? And that, to me is actually what it

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Speaker 2: means to have agency, because it's something you have control

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Speaker 2: over your own response, your own mindset, and you have

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Speaker 2: choice in terms of how you think about anything that's

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Speaker 2: in front of you.

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Speaker 1: Hey, bafam, we got to take a quick break, pay

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Speaker 1: some BIS and we'll be right back. Such a difficult

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Speaker 1: lesson because I hear the same thing in marriage counseling too.

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Speaker 1: It's like the fastest way to get your partner to

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Speaker 1: change is to change yourself. And again applicable now, like

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Speaker 1: I also think about especially in like when you are

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Speaker 1: someone who, like you said, to your point, your behavior

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Speaker 1: has served you in your career, like doing all the

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Speaker 1: things and being a go getter and staying later than

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Speaker 1: everyone else, and you know, being really entrepreneurial that can

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Speaker 1: get you tapped for leadership role. But then when you

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Speaker 1: and that was definitely my case, like I worked a

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Speaker 1: certain way, you know, for myself, and I didn't. It

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Speaker 1: took me a while to shift that, like to stop

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Speaker 1: over extending myself and continuing to focus on my own

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Speaker 1: individual like work. I'm clacking at the keys and that

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Speaker 1: means I'm working hard.

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Speaker 2: Can you talk about that.

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Speaker 1: Individual contributor high achievers when we get into leadership, How

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Speaker 1: can that like over extending on ourselves end up being

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Speaker 1: somewhat toxic or you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And you know, it's interesting you use

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Speaker 2: that word, like, how does it end up feeling like

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Speaker 2: we're overextending ourselves or feeling toxic? And I'm using that

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Speaker 2: word feeling purposely because it describes the way we're experiencing

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Speaker 2: a certain workplace right or our job no different, you

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Speaker 2: know when you said, you know, in marriage counseling, they

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Speaker 2: say the quickest way to change your partner is to

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Speaker 2: change yourself. I actually I'm not that I'm a marriage counselor,

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Speaker 2: but what I have learned from being in a committed

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Speaker 2: relationship for over thirty five years, Now, what I have

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Speaker 2: learned is it's really not even about changing the other, right,

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Speaker 2: it's about how you experience the dynamic, about changing your

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Speaker 2: experience of it, Okay, And that is that's the only

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Speaker 2: thing you really have power over. Anytime you're sort of

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Speaker 2: attached to changing anything outside of you, to be honest,

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Speaker 2: you're holding it on too tightly that then it hold

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Speaker 2: you in a place where that's where the closure and

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Speaker 2: the restriction and the stress comes up. Right, And the

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Speaker 2: same happens with what you just described. So how does

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Speaker 2: a high achiever end up getting to a place where

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Speaker 2: they feel, you know, potentially burned out or it leads

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Speaker 2: to toxic behavior? Because again, like I think about me,

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Speaker 2: when I started off early in my career, I was

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Speaker 2: literally responsible for my job was making sure that the

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Speaker 2: right messages were going into the bill for people who

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Speaker 2: received their insurance bill. Like it was such a specific job, right,

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Speaker 2: Did I need to be involved in every little detail?

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Speaker 2: And did I need to make sure it was correct

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Speaker 2: that I need to micromanage that particular activity. Did I

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Speaker 2: need to micromanage myself? Absolutely? Absolutely? The issue when you know,

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Speaker 2: by ten years later I went to not just managing

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Speaker 2: myself but managing many, many many more people in relationships,

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Speaker 2: and I took the same approach. You reach a wall

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Speaker 2: against your sheer physical capacity to be able to do it,

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Speaker 2: and what leads to it then feeling like this is

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Speaker 2: not sustainable. I feel like I'm burning out. I'm not

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Speaker 2: is because we haven't made the shift from a mindset standpoint.

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Speaker 2: Everything else has has changed, right, has become more expensive

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Speaker 2: or more complex or or whatnot, and yet we're still

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Speaker 2: operating in the way that you know you did when

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Speaker 2: you were stuffing envelopes as an individual contributor. So part

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Speaker 2: of it is the ability to catch up. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's no different if your child is you know, three

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Speaker 2: years old. Yes, it's very reasonable that they throw a

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Speaker 2: tantrum every time the toy is taken away. Absolutely, that's

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Speaker 2: reasonable for a three year old. But if they're eighteen

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Speaker 2: year old, eighteen years old and still doing that, there's

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Speaker 2: something that hasn't fully caught up, right, And so the

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Speaker 2: same holds true in leadership as well. So here's the thing.

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Speaker 2: I think what we end up doing, or what I

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Speaker 2: see in my clients is they get very then frustrated

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Speaker 2: and they try to fix their team, like if my

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Speaker 2: team just did this, if people would just stop asking

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Speaker 2: me to be at every meeting if it's everything outside

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Speaker 2: versus saying or asking in what way might I be

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Speaker 2: contributing to how I'm now feeling burned out? Or in

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Speaker 2: what way might I be contributing to this toxic environment

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Speaker 2: that we now have or this toxic productivity that we have.

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Speaker 2: It's not to say that you own all of it,

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Speaker 2: but look at your side of the aisle, okay, first

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Speaker 2: and notice what it is that you are doing or

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Speaker 2: not doing, and decide what can you take to change

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Speaker 2: the experience of leading in this particular situation is truly

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Speaker 2: where it starts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it brings me to start thinking about sometimes when

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Speaker 1: you're when you're striving and you want to be you

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Speaker 1: want to be busy, and you want to be fixing

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Speaker 1: and doing and being and feel like you want to

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Speaker 1: be Like being needed by your team means that you're

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Speaker 1: a good leader, because if they're always coming to me,

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Speaker 1: I'm the solution finder, I'm the fixer. Oh they need

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Speaker 1: me again, you know, because I'm the one who can

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Speaker 1: come in. But some of that can stem from like

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Speaker 1: the fear of messing up and you know, having to

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Speaker 1: be like hyper vigilant because you're so afraid to make

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Speaker 1: a mistake, and rightfully so, especially in a climate where

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Speaker 1: you know, as a woman of color and leadership myself,

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Speaker 1: I always felt over scrutinized, and you know, you would

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Speaker 1: get feedback and you just could I would drive myself

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Speaker 1: nuts like that? Was that like im I being Gaslet

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Speaker 1: Is that because I'm a black woman that I'm being

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Speaker 1: told my own is aggressive and people are intimidated by me?

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Speaker 1: But yeah, there's a fear of making a mistake. What

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Speaker 1: would you say when it comes from a place that

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Speaker 1: makes sense.

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Speaker 2: We don't want to we don't want to screw up

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Speaker 2: the margin of air. And that's right. Do you say

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Speaker 2: to someone who's yeah, I mean so first of all,

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Speaker 2: the story you share, which we've you know, I've certainly

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Speaker 2: been there, right like well, I just somebody just said this,

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Speaker 2: you know, or even they just looked at me this way,

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Speaker 2: and all these thoughts come come come to mind around

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Speaker 2: why it could be. And that's why sharing the book,

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Speaker 2: even the parable of the two swords, which I think

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Speaker 2: really underlies the theme of my book and everything we're talking about,

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Speaker 2: which is uh grounded in this this mantra that comes

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Speaker 2: from Buddhist circles, which is, you know, pain is inevitable,

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00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 2: suffering is optional. And so there's this story about how,

432
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 2: you know, the Buddha was with a student. And I'm

433
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 2: not religious in anyway. I sort of pick up from

434
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 2: a lot of different things, but the Buddhists.

435
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: Really got it going on. I love it right like

436
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: I got my favorite is no mud, no lotus.

437
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: I'm all right, you know, I don't know my my

438
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 2: Christian Church going Mama is somewhere up there's still doing

439
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,479
Speaker 2: the Vine Intervention book, being like, uh, Muriel, that's who

440
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: you're quoting.

441
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: It needs to doesn't need to know.

442
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 2: She's all right, she's transcendental now she can she can

443
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: see it all. So, but the story is a student,

444
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 2: you know, he had a student and he said, if

445
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 2: if if somebody gets you know, hit by a by

446
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 2: an arrow it's the double arrow, not double swords, gets

447
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: hit by an arrow, is it painful? And the student said, yeah,

448
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 2: of course, you know, like of course is painful. And

449
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: then the Buddha says, if they get hit by a

450
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 2: second arrow, is it more painful? And the student says, yeah,

451
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 2: it's more painful that second arrow. And so then the

452
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 2: Buddha says, the first arrow are the challenges that we

453
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 2: face in life. We're all going to face them. They happen,

454
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: They're inevitable, right, that's life. The second arrow is how

455
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: we respond to the first arrow, and it often is

456
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: what causes us suffering and more pain. And so when

457
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 2: you share that story of you get the feedback. We've

458
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 2: all gotten feedback that says you should have done this

459
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: or you shouldn't do that. That's the first arrow. That's

460
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 2: the feedback. It is what it is, right. The second

461
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 2: arrow is then the oh my god, like, what does

462
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: this feedback mean? Does it mean I'm lesser than? Does

463
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: it mean I'm this? Does it mean they're that? Does

464
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 2: it mean? It's the whole narrative that we put over it,

465
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: And that's what we have control over. That's what we

466
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 2: have control over. But we have to understand where it

467
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: comes from, which is why you're question around what is

468
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 2: that grounded? What I have found or through my research

469
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 2: of other people's work, is that typically when the narrative

470
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 2: does not serve us well, it is grounded in three

471
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 2: fundamental needs that we all have as human beings. The

472
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 2: need to feel worthy, the need to feel connected, and

473
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 2: the need to feel safe. So when we don't feel worthy,

474
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 2: when something reminds us that we might not feel safe,

475
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 2: or something reminds us or triggers us that we are,

476
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 2: there's a risk of not being connected. To your point around,

477
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: I need my team to want me to be around,

478
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: or I am valued by being needed by my team.

479
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 2: Those interpretations we then try to grab by behaving in

480
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 2: a particular way or thinking in a particular way. So

481
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 2: really the work is to understand, you know, why am

482
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: I micromanaging, What is the belief that's driving that, and

483
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 2: where does that belief come from? Is it because right

484
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: now I feel like I know for me, when I've micromanaged,

485
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,959
Speaker 2: it's because I'm feeling stressed, and I'm feeling stressed and

486
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 2: I don't feel safe quote unquote safe because I think

487
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 2: that if I don't get all of this done, I'm

488
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 2: never going to be able to succeed in what I'm doing.

489
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,719
Speaker 2: Is that true? No, it's not. No, it's not, but

490
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 2: I have unchecked That's where it goes to, right, the

491
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 2: fear of making mistakes. So one of the beliefs I

492
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 2: talk about that really gets in the way of leaders

493
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: is the I can't make a mistake. Does that mean

494
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: I'm suggesting that everyone go out there and just recklessly

495
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: make mistakes. Not at all. I'm suggesting that that's not

496
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 2: really true across the board. Okay, it doesn't serve you

497
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: well across the board. But where does that come from?

498
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: When you feel that like, I can't make this mistake.

499
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 2: Everything has to be perfect, and so I'm really going

500
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 2: to procrastinate on it because then I can't make a mistake.

501
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 2: Where it comes from is this need to feel safe? Right?

502
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 2: And why? Because underlying that is also a belief that

503
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 2: if I make a mistake, I won't be able to recover,

504
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: which is not always necessarily true. So oftentimes with clients

505
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: when they are, you know, procrastinating or not moving forward

506
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 2: with a decision, we talk through if this word ll

507
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: go wrong, rather than tell them now, don't worry, it

508
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 2: won't go wrong. Never worried. Right, let's scenario plan if

509
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: this word ll go wrong? What's the worst that could happen?

510
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 2: And we walk down that line, and I said, and

511
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 2: if that were to happen, what would you do? Right?

512
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:12,959
Speaker 2: And they are like, oh, I'd be doing this, this

513
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: is that, And I'm like okay, and they're like, but

514
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 2: I wouldn't like it, And I'm like, that's all y.

515
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: How many times do we have to do things we

516
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 2: don't like. I'm not telling you it's going to be

517
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: comfortable or easy, but could you get through it? Yeah?

518
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 2: You could? You have a plan. And that's what we

519
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 2: call self efficacy, which is far more valuable. Then that's

520
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: actually what confidence is. Confidence is not oh, I know

521
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: I can do it. Confidence actually comes from I know

522
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: I can try to do it, and I know I

523
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 2: can learn to do it, and I also know that

524
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: if I do it and it doesn't turn out the

525
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: way that I want it to, that I will be okay.

526
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: On the other side, that's self efficacy.

527
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: I do like to look at those, you know, like

528
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: my son when he says, Mommy, i'm scared at night.

529
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: He's just trying to get me stayed upstairs long and

530
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: he'll be like, I'm scared. I'm like scared of what

531
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: He's like, there's a goblin in the closet, or you know,

532
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: I'm scared that someone's gonna come take me. And I'm like, well,

533
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: then what would you do?

534
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 2: You know?

535
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: And you know, to a certain extent, I don't want

536
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: his imagination and to go too wild, but it can

537
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: be helpful to say the scary thing out loud. It

538
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: just also calls to mind how important it is to

539
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: have a sounding board as a leader. And I have

540
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: a lot of compassion for people in leadership positions where

541
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: they don't necessarily they haven't created that sounding where they

542
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: don't have haven't found themselves a coach, or don't have

543
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: a mentor to talk to at work, and they're kind

544
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: of trying to like fix it themselves and think that

545
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: that's what makes a good leader.

546
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, what would you say? Yeah, I mean, look, I

547
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: think that you know, at at the I have come

548
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: to a place where I now understand again through a

549
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 2: lot of my own research and learning and work, and

550
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: you know, I have such a privilege to work with

551
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 2: so many different people and really study human beings. At

552
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 2: the end of the day, I know I'm an executive coach,

553
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: you know, but in reality, I think I'm a student

554
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: of humans, right, Like I'm fascinated by who we are

555
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: and what we do. I always have been, I've always

556
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: you know. I remember when I was younger, probably in

557
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: high school actually, I was like, I think I'm going

558
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: to become an anthropologist, which what are anthropologists like? They

559
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 2: study humans? And of course my parents, my dad mainly

560
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: was like, you can't do that, like you know, like

561
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: and look where I end up. So I went and

562
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: got business degree, I went and got my MBA and

563
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: still look where I ended up. So that that theme

564
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: never left me. I've just learned to express it in

565
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: a different way. And what I have come to understand

566
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: is that you know, when we're dealing with humans we

567
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: learn from if we open ourselves up to learn from them,

568
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: they actually, as used we were talking about parenting, they're

569
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: a mirror to who we are, right and so sometimes

570
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: you need to have somebody else to work with to

571
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: help facilitate that being a mirror, whether it's a coach,

572
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: a mentor a friend, a peer, etc. Somebody that you

573
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: can sound board with. And my hope and my goal

574
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: even in the work that I'm doing, is for people

575
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: to recognize that with enough at bats and enough practice,

576
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: they can learn to be their own mirror. They can

577
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 2: learn to coach themselves, they can learn to grow the

578
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: capacity to be able to walk through the questions themselves,

579
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: ask themselves the questions that another might ask them. I

580
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: often know when I'm at the end of a coaching engagement, which,

581
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 2: by the way, I'm always looking to end them. I'm like,

582
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: I do not want to do this in perpetuity with people,

583
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 2: because then I feel like I've failed at my job.

584
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: My job, I feel.

585
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: Almost like that's what they're A good therapist will say

586
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: to me.

587
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, right, I mean I'm not a therapist.

588
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: Like I draw the line very tightly on that boundary,

589
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 2: and I do think like my job is for people

590
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: to build capacity right within themselves. Here's why it's important

591
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: from a leadership standpoint. You know, so much of what

592
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 2: it means to lead is to grow capacity in others, right,

593
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: I mean that's what we do. You have people, and

594
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 2: you're trying to get people to do things right, like

595
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: you're setting up these systems, and so there's all this

596
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 2: talk about good leaders need to be able to coach. Well.

597
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 2: If you can't coach yourself, which is the best place

598
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: you can practice, what foundation are you setting for how

599
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 2: well you can coach others? Right? And so to me, yes,

600
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: I think there is a role for the external sounding board.

601
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: And I think about how much more potential could be

602
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: filled if not only you had an external sounding board,

603
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: but you were also tapping into your own sounding board,

604
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: which we're not even gonna get that deep is really

605
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: around the integration of the masculine and the feminine energy.

606
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what we have in terms of feminine

607
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: energies or intuition, our own knowing all of that and

608
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: learning to tap into that. I fundamentally believe that the

609
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 2: most effective leaders, the ones who are most expensive, are

610
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: able to do both. They have the external teacher and

611
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: they have the inner teacher as well.

612
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: I totally see what you're saying. I think when it

613
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: comes to like trusting yourself, I trusted myself a lot

614
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: for a lot, I mean like and had a lot

615
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: of and in my ability and was able to deliver

616
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: and to lead. And then there came a point where,

617
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: you know, like extra like your life circumstances, you go

618
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: through like changes for your life, right like whether it's

619
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: like parenting or you know, family dynamics or financial things

620
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: or business things, and some things can knock your confidence

621
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,959
Speaker 1: like down the line. And I've had a crisis of

622
00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: confidence in the last couple of years that had it's

623
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: kind of like group and I've had to sort of

624
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: go back to basics and build myself back up in

625
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: a way that it sucked.

626
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I always done with all that. Yeah, we're never done,

627
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: Mandy Annoy, Right, I know, I know, you know, I

628
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: remember your ma. You're reminding me. I took this this course.

629
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: It was right after my mom passed, so it was

630
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 2: about four years ago, and it was a course on

631
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: self compassion because I was looking for all the things.

632
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 2: It just helped me, help help me feel better, Like

633
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: I was like, can we just help me feel like?

634
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: I just want to feel better, Like what's the other side?

635
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 2: Get me there? Because I'm a very outcomest to a

636
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: full and I was like, I just want to get

637
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 2: to the other side. And this course was like four

638
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 2: months long and literally we were at like month three

639
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 2: and a half and the and it was all virtual.

640
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 2: And the teacher says, so you know when you do

641
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: all these things, like we went into practices like what

642
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 2: can you do? Not the word self care, but you know,

643
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: cause so what can you do to like move through things? Da?

644
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: Da da?

645
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 2: And we have to list them? And I said, okay,

646
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 2: so I did all the things I practiced, but I

647
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 2: don't feel better. And I remember she just she was like, oh, oh, honey,

648
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 2: that's not the point. And I was like, what what

649
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 2: do you mean? That's not the point? Like what have

650
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 2: we been doing for the past three and a half months.

651
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 2: She's like, that's not the point. The point is not

652
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: about getting to the other side. The point is what

653
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: do you need to do while you're in it so

654
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 2: that you can sustain yourself as you're going through it.

655
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,879
Speaker 2: The other side will get there when it gets there.

656
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: Man, give me a refund. I want out.

657
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: I mean, but Mandy, the way it changed everything for me,

658
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 2: I mean I was angry. I was angry. And what

659
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: it did for me, which I'm offering to you, is

660
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 2: it helped me lean into The seasons are going to

661
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: come and go right. But how I experienced the seasons

662
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: is all to me, And what I need during each

663
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 2: season is all up to me. Do I need something external,

664
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 2: do I need something internal? Do I need both? That's

665
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 2: what I have under control. But the season's coming and going,

666
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 2: Winter's gonna come, whether I like it or not, and

667
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 2: then spring's gonna come, and then summer and fall. I

668
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: do not have control over that, but I have control

669
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: over how I experienced each of those seasons. So which

670
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 2: one would I like better, but as long as I

671
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: know they're coming, Like, I am not that special that

672
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: I can just stop and say, can we make it

673
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 2: summer all the time? Right? Like I cannot? And so yeah,

674
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 2: you know we are like can we just can this

675
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 2: just end? But you know, the crisis of confidence, it

676
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 2: doesn't have to feel like a crisis of confidence.

677
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: I start feeling shitty, I'm like, wait, I'm not suffering properly.

678
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: I should be suffering better. There's a better way.

679
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 2: There's a better way. Yeah, there is an easier way.

680
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: Heyba fam, We're gonna take a quick break, pay some bills,

681
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: and we'll be right back. Yeah, it's been a tough year.

682
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: You know. Do you have any like if you were

683
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: speaking to so, I have been coaching now for three

684
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: years now, and it's part of what I do. It's

685
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: not the only thing that I do. Obviously, I have

686
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: the podcast and other projects. But I so enjoy it

687
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: and I but at the same time, I wonder if

688
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: you have any advice for me, Like if you were

689
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: telling someone like me who's a few years and you've

690
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 1: been doing this for decades, a couple of decades, any

691
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,479
Speaker 1: advice for me and how I can how I can

692
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: show up.

693
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: Better, especially as a coach.

694
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: As a coach, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean.

695
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 2: You know, I think I think the I mean, the

696
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 2: profession of coaching is We're gonna have like a whole

697
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: conversation about profession of coaching. You know. It's very different

698
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 2: than when I started. I mean, there's so many more

699
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: people in it, you know, so there's like the business

700
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 2: side of it, you know, and then there's the like

701
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 2: the practice of coaching. To me, the most important work

702
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 2: in being able to be an effective coach are two fold.

703
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 2: One is you have to be able to meet your

704
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 2: clients where they are, which means you have to be

705
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 2: able to study what not just what are they dealing with,

706
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 2: but what's going on in the macro world. You know,

707
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 2: when I work primarily with C suite leaders, but I

708
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 2: study their company, the culture that they're in their industry,

709
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 2: so I can better understand what they're dealing with versus

710
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: it projecting you know, my own situation, which might be

711
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 2: very different. So I think that's huge. You've got to

712
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: meet them where they are, not just in terms of

713
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 2: the context, but also what they need. You know. While

714
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: this whole book is written about mindset and beliefs. Some

715
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 2: of my clients are not ready to go there, like

716
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: we are just working at the skill level, like we're

717
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 2: breaking out the calendar and saying, let's highlight what works.

718
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 2: You know, we're very tactical. So that is another big

719
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 2: piece is recognizing and being able to assess where is

720
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 2: my client in terms of capacity, need and context, and

721
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: making sure that I am meeting them where they are

722
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 2: and coaching them from where they are towards the goals

723
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 2: that they want, which leads me to the second piece.

724
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: It is very important that as coaches we are not

725
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,479
Speaker 2: tied to the client's outcomes, because the minute we get

726
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: tied to, I will only feel valuable. Right if I

727
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 2: feel like, especially in.

728
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: This job market, it's so hard, I'm like this, it's

729
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: it's it's I feel like in this season. Not to

730
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: interrupt you, but just the context is like I'm not

731
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: coaching C suite leaders. I'm coaching women who are literally

732
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: in the middle, you know, entry level, like they're you know,

733
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: senior or striving to be more senior. And in this

734
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: job market where it's like the knocks just keep coming

735
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,959
Speaker 1: and there's things that they can't control. Overturn to office order,

736
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: you know, effect of January you're going to like make

737
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: that decision or not applying and getting referrals and doing

738
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: all the right things but then not getting an interview

739
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: because you know the current job market. I have struggled

740
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: and it's a challenge for myself because I want to

741
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: be the best I can be right and going to

742
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: be the best for them. I gotta stop, you hit it.

743
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: I'm tying my success to whether they are succeeding, and

744
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: I think that's compounding.

745
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 2: You can support it, you can, but you do not

746
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 2: own it. It's the same with parenting. I do not

747
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 2: own my kid's success. I do not own my kid's life.

748
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 2: I am there to support an usher, but I tell

749
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: them all the time, I'm like, I've gone to college,

750
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 2: this is your experience. Every consequence of your actions are

751
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 2: a result of your actions. Okay, I may have influenced them,

752
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 2: but now as an adult, you own that. I will

753
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 2: always be there, but you own it. And I think,

754
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,479
Speaker 2: as a coach, you know the job. Here's the risk.

755
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: I think the minute we start becoming overly attached to

756
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 2: the outcomes of our client, we become part of their story.

757
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with us. That's what being

758
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: in service of. So if you really want to be

759
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 2: a selfless coach, which I think coaches do need to

760
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 2: be selfless, but I think we have selfless defined wrongly.

761
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: Selfless to mean is take yourself out of it. Okay,

762
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: take yourself out of it. So what does that look like?

763
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: I tell my clients, let's work through the options. The

764
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 2: decision is yours, right. I have no judgment too about

765
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 2: what you decide, and in some of the you know,

766
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 2: I have worked across all different levels of leadership, just

767
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: so happens that right now, you know, my focus is

768
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: on senior levels. My role is to be there neutral

769
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: and to be non judgmental because it's the only place

770
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 2: where they're able to talk about the things, to ask

771
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: the questions so that then they can process and get

772
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 2: to a place where they see what the choices are

773
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: in front of them and they can make decisions eyes

774
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 2: wide open. I see that as me helping them exercise agency. Okay,

775
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: And I tell them very clearly, I will sleep very

776
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 2: well tonight regardless of what you do. And I tell them, yeah,

777
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 2: I'm not afraid to get fired as a coach. I'm

778
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 2: really not. And so that lessons you know, the pressure

779
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 2: not only on me but also on them, and that

780
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 2: just takes constant work. It's not even necessarily coaching work.

781
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: It's just pure old human adult self work to recognize

782
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 2: when am I becoming part of the story. And I

783
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: still face it, right, but I catch myself and then

784
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: I'll say, Okay, Muriel, what's going on here? You know,

785
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: you got to clean it up a little bit.

786
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: It's like, if you're going to take credit for someone's success,

787
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: it also leaves you feeling like, Okay, well, if they're

788
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: not succeeding, then that's also the testimonial, you know, that's

789
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: also the outcomes that I'm tied to. Yeah, but it's

790
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: so right. I think it's also and I want to

791
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: hear about this coaches, this coaching of coaches, because yeah,

792
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: I think because I've done it and I haven't thrown

793
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, I've built up nandy money

794
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 1: makers and it's lovely and it's not the only thing

795
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: that I do. I haven't really like surrounded myself with

796
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 1: peers in that space, you know, and I think that

797
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: may help even just I'm so glad I asked you.

798
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: I was a little bit selfish.

799
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 2: I'm like, God, yeah, of course a baby coach.

800
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: You know. I appreciate that. And I think it's also

801
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 1: helpful if you're listening and you're whether you're you've worked

802
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: with the coach or might be working with the coach,

803
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: to see it as an empowerment for you as well,

804
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 1: and not necessarily like you're clinging to this person.

805
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 2: That's right, should it's not exactly exactly do you know exactly?

806
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: I remember it's one of my favorite one of my

807
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 2: favorite authors and probably you know just teachers. Her name

808
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: is Danay Logan, and she wrote a phenomenal book called

809
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: Sovereign Love, and I also mentioned her in the book

810
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 2: as well, and I remember hearing her one day and

811
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 2: I can't give credit to exactly what she said, but

812
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 2: but it relates to coaching. It relates to so many

813
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 2: different areas. But somebody was talking about how they were

814
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 2: in a relationship and how that person, when they were

815
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 2: with that person, it made them feel like they could

816
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 2: do everything and anything, et cetera. And a coach can

817
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: be that for a client, right, a parent can be

818
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 2: that for a kid. And she's like, and then when

819
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 2: that person left, like I felt like I couldn't do

820
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 2: anything anymore, And Dnay said back to them, you know,

821
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 2: the issue is that you thought that they were the

822
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 2: magic to make you be able to do all these things.

823
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 2: What you need to realize is they weren't the magic.

824
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: They were only the mirror to the magic that was

825
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 2: already there that happens in so many different capacities. And

826
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 2: so I think as coaches, it's to help others, as parents,

827
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 2: as anyone, right, help others recognize the magic that's already

828
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: there or but that they have the capacity to learn

829
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 2: the things that can get them to where they want,

830
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 2: and you're facilitating that process rather than being the magic itself.

831
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. I needed to hear that for sure. You know,

832
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: for anyone who's listening and are there considering like working

833
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: one on one with a coach, maybe it's out of

834
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: their price range and maybe they're thinking about like a

835
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: group coaching community instead, where maybe they're in community with

836
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: others and it's like there's lower barrier to entry. If

837
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,879
Speaker 1: you have any advice there or any distinction between the two,

838
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: like how can you have a successful group coaching experience?

839
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think just find one where the

840
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 2: a the coach who's leading it resonates with you. I

841
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 2: think that's really important. And then if you're going to

842
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 2: do anything in a group setting, I know I tend

843
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: I'm very much an introvert, so I tend to like ruffle,

844
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I gotta go to the group class,

845
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: Like where's the private class?

846
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: Right?

847
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 2: And what I have learned is as long as I

848
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 2: go in with an openness to learn, and that that

849
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 2: learning may happen in different ways, right, I need to

850
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 2: let go of the control of how it's going to happen,

851
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 2: I will get something out of it. And so I

852
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 2: think there's a posture that you need to have when

853
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 2: you do it in the frame of a you know,

854
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: I went to I went to a business school that

855
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: was a little different because it was all case study

856
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 2: method and I remember on day one, the professor, first

857
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 2: professor we met with, said, everyone here has something to contribute,

858
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: and something that will Sometimes that will be by sharing

859
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 2: your experience. Sometimes that will be by asking the questions.

860
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 2: Sometimes that will be just by listening. Be discerning about

861
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 2: how you're contributing at every moment. And so I've always

862
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 2: carried that into every group setting, that there are different

863
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 2: ways of contributing and different ways of learning, and so

864
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: I think in a group coaching, that's you know, that's

865
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 2: what you could look for as well.

866
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent, I'm with you. Sometimes as an introvert,

867
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: even a one on one is too much like one

868
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: on two.

869
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: It's like, I know, like, let me read the book.

870
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: Podcast I could like listen to.

871
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: But but you know, I've learned, like I've had to

872
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 2: like look at my own assumptions around why am I

873
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: devaluing the community aspect of it? There's we need both,

874
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 2: you know, we need the individual solitude, time with ourselves

875
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,760
Speaker 2: and again if we perceive community as a place of

876
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 2: learning and growth, which I think there is huge. You know,

877
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: you don't you don't run into the challenges in isolation

878
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 2: that you know. I look at community now, and when

879
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 2: I talk about community, it's my friends, it's my family,

880
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 2: it's people that I have to be around. I look

881
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 2: at them as that's where I practice. I might be

882
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 2: learning when I'm on my own, but I practice when

883
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 2: I'm in community, right, because that's when the mirror really happens.

884
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned in the book you talk about

885
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: like belonging, and I think I made the mistake of

886
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: like when I was in leadership. One of the you know,

887
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: beliefs I had was that I needed external validation to

888
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 1: feel as if I belonged in the position I had,

889
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 1: And I just wonder, I know we're at times, I'll

890
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: i'll wrap up with this, but I wonder if you're,

891
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: you know, into any listeners who may be feeling like

892
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: do I belong here and they're waiting for someone to

893
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: give them the feedback that they want, or even they've

894
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: gone into leadership hearing. I work with women of color

895
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: right our listenership is mainly women of color, and I

896
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: never want to contribute to too much of the narrative

897
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: that our backs are up against the wall, no one

898
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 1: believes in us, we're going and we're underpaid, undervalue. No

899
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: one's going to want you in the position that you're in.

900
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 1: I think that's very detrimental. I'd like if you just

901
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: talk about like how to increase that sense of belonging and.

902
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 2: How we can do that. Yeah, ourselves, absolutely, And I

903
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 2: talk you know, I dedicate a whole chapter to when

904
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 2: you have that little voice in your head that's saying

905
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 2: I don't belong here, whether it's at a meeting or

906
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 2: in a company or in a you know, I at

907
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 2: times have felt that, and not so much in the workplace,

908
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 2: but I have felt that socially right, and I've had

909
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: to unpack like where that was and why that was,

910
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 2: and I understood where it was, why it was what

911
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 2: it was, and you know, I actually struggled with this

912
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 2: chapter because I was conflicted in feeling like, well, gosh, like,

913
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 2: how do you ever feel like you belong if other

914
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 2: people make you feel like you don't belong or if

915
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 2: they don't want you to belong, right, which there are

916
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 2: systems set up for some of us not to belong, Okay.

917
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 2: And one of the things that doctor Shufali Saveria, which

918
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 2: we've talked about, introduced to me, is this notion that

919
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 2: everything is co created, right, everything is co created, and

920
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 2: so in the and so in the aspect of belonging,

921
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 2: there are different actors to that. They are the ones

922
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 2: who make you feel like you don't belong or who

923
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 2: take actions that can lead to you not belonging. And

924
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 2: there's how you receive that, which is how you respond

925
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 2: to it. So, going back to that story of the

926
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 2: two arrows, the first arrow is systems that are set

927
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 2: up for certain people to not belong that's the first

928
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 2: er that is true. I'm not absolving it. I don't

929
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: think it's right. It exists. Fact. The second arrow is

930
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 2: how we respond to it and how we feel about it.

931
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 2: And what I see is that the minute we start

932
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: internalizing the very thing that those systems are set up

933
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 2: to do, it then drives this mantra of I don't

934
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 2: belong here, right, and causes us to suffer even more

935
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 2: from something that's already painful. And so what I share,

936
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 2: you know what, or not even share where my clients

937
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 2: tend to come out when we are working through this,

938
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 2: which often show which surprisingly Mandy like a lot of

939
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 2: my clients are not from underrepresented groups. Okay, let me

940
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 2: just start there, and they feel this too, right. In fact,

941
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 2: there's a podcast episode that's coming out next week where

942
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 2: it's about a gentleman senior level table and he feels

943
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,479
Speaker 2: like he doesn't belong. That's who I write about even

944
00:51:54,480 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 2: in the book, and the notion is more around They

945
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 2: come out on the other side feeling like, well, wait

946
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 2: a minute, if I'm here and I am physically here,

947
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 2: why am I saying I don't belong? Why am I

948
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 2: contributing to this story? I'm actually here. They may not

949
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 2: accept me. There's a fine line between being accepted and them.

950
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 2: You know, you belonging to them, but in reality, you

951
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 2: don't belong to anyone, okay. And so really the notion

952
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 2: of belonging is as long as I'm here and I

953
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 2: belong to myself, I belong Let let me Let that

954
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 2: be my mantra. Everything else I've got to deal with

955
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 2: it differently. So there it is a difficult one to

956
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 2: work through, and yet when you do, it can be

957
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 2: very liberating. I share the story about in the book

958
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,720
Speaker 2: you Know We Are When my kids were much much younger,

959
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 2: they went to school that you know, the majority of

960
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 2: the kids that were there did not look like them,

961
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 2: and uh, it was so interesting to us because a

962
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 2: lot of the other brown families who were there. You

963
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 2: would hear the parents and they'd be like, oh, man,

964
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 2: isn't it great that we're here, Like this is just

965
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 2: going to set them up for success and blah blah blah.

966
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 2: And what we would tell our kids all the time is, listen,

967
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 2: you're not lucky to be here. They're lucky to have

968
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 2: you here, right, Because we wanted them to step onto

969
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: that campus every single day knowing that they have every

970
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: right to be there. They belong there because they're there.

971
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 2: No questions asked, they they were there. And I think

972
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 2: the same applies when we're in the workplace. Right, you

973
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 2: were chosen for a reason, you applied for the job,

974
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 2: you were choosing to be here, and as long as

975
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 2: you choose to be here, then you belong the minute

976
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,919
Speaker 2: you decide, which there are times when you should say

977
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 2: I don't belong here. There are moments then you'd no

978
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,919
Speaker 2: longer belong there. You make that choice. Nobody else makes

979
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: the choice of where you belong but you. That's agency.

980
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 1: And that's why even when you're someone in a largely

981
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: like when you are the underrepresented, the few, the only

982
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,240
Speaker 1: the difference, it's so important to create your own circle

983
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 1: of support.

984
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 2: That's right.

985
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 1: Your kids had you when they came home, to remind

986
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: them who they are and that they belong. We so

987
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 1: need that.

988
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 2: I have a very very good friend of mine, you know,

989
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 2: a black woman very just does doing impactful work in

990
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 2: an industry where she's definitely one of the few, and

991
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 2: just has had a remarkable career. But it's all around

992
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 2: just an amazing person. And one of the things she

993
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 2: always says I know who I am and I know

994
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 2: whose I am, so I can step into any room

995
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,240
Speaker 2: and it doesn't not matter whether they think I should

996
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 2: be there or not, which basically says you don't. You

997
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 2: don't dictate that nobody else dictates that you can't because

998
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 2: I already know. And that's that's what that I belong

999
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:03,439
Speaker 2: here comes from. It's an inner sense of belonging that

1000
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 2: is so strong that you're not relying on anything externally

1001
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 2: to validate it or misvalidate it.

1002
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:18,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, ba fam needed to hear that, and

1003
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 1: even if you've heard it before, to hear it now

1004
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 1: at a time like this where it's like, you know,

1005
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: expressions like DEI hire and affirmative action and like all

1006
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,879
Speaker 1: these institution systems that up to give us a bit

1007
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: of a leg up to even the level the playing

1008
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 1: field are then weaponized against us, and all that noise

1009
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: and all that bs and the tweets and the tiktoks

1010
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 1: and all that. At the end of the day, it

1011
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: has to like like you said about the second arrow,

1012
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,919
Speaker 1: we get to like the first arrow, that's the first arrow,

1013
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 1: and then we get to choose whether or not we

1014
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: believe it. I just really I'm so glad that you

1015
00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: came on the show.

1016
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 2: I think, Oh, I'm so glad that I have been here.

1017
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 2: I really this has been such a treat. Mandy, you

1018
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 2: like good at what you do. It's almost it makes sense.

1019
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 2: You wrote a book about it.

1020
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, look at that again, y'all. My guess

1021
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: is Muriel M. Wilkins, and her book is Leadership Unblocked,

1022
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: break Through the beliefs that limit your potential. And y'all

1023
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: can pick that up wherever books are sold. It's out

1024
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: October twenty eighth. Yeah, so it'll be out by the

1025
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: time the stairs, I believe. If not, we can pre

1026
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: order it. Get them pre orders up.

1027
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 2: Yes, congratulations, Thank you so much.

1028
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: Man, a huge success.

1029
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much.

1030
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: All right, Pa fam, until next time, wish you well. Bye,

1031
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 1: Hey ba fam. Let's be real for a second, and

1032
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 1: y'all know I keep it a book. The job market

1033
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: has been brutal, no, not brutal, trash, especially for women

1034
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 1: of color. Over three hundred thousand of us have disappear

1035
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: from the workforce this year alone, and not by choice,

1036
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:08,840
Speaker 1: but because of layoffs, disappearing DEI programs, and stagnant wages

1037
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 1: that keep cutting us out of opportunity. Our unemployment rate

1038
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: has jumped to over seven percent, while our pay gap

1039
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: continues to widen. I know all of that sounds dire,

1040
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: but here's what I want y'all to know. You do

1041
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: not have to wait for the system to save you.

1042
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: That's exactly why I created the Mandy money Makers Group

1043
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: coaching community. It is a coaching community that is built

1044
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 1: for us by us. Inside the community, we're not just

1045
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 1: talking about how to negotiate or to how to get

1046
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: the job that you want. It's about finding purpose in

1047
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: your career. It's about finding communities and others, feeling seen,

1048
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: feeling heard, and also having a sounding board and a

1049
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 1: mirror to reflect your own magic, your own sparkle right

1050
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: back to yourself. In this community, you'll get group coaching

1051
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: led by me, but you also get peer to peer

1052
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: accountability with proven tools and resources that can help you

1053
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: do what we have always done since rise. Even when

1054
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: the odds are stacked against us, despite all the challenges,

1055
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: we will rise. If you're interested in joining the Mandy

1056
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 1: money Makers community and having that support to bolster you

1057
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 1: and help you tap back into your magic so that

1058
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: you can lead your career with intention and heart and

1059
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: your own intuition. Trusting that again, please join us. You

1060
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: can find information in the show notes of today's episodes,

1061
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: or go to mandymoney dot com slash community. That's Mandy

1062
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: m ndimoney dot com slash community. I would love to

1063
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 1: see y'all there. Enrollment is open, so please go check

1064
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: out mandymoney dot com slash community today