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A 20 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: shooting death has wrought not only a community, but a 21 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: state and a nation. Of course, I am talking about 22 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: the shooting death of a young twenty five year old 23 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: man which is now spurned incredible activity amongst local law enforcement. 24 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How did 25 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,679 Speaker 1: a young man go from jogging in a neighborhood to 26 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: suddenly ending up dead on the ground shot twice? What happened? 27 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: With me an all star panel to figure it out? 28 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: Of course, again, I'm talking about twenty five year old 29 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: Ahmad Aubrey with me, civil rights lawyer. You know him 30 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: well from the Trayvon Martin case, Ben Crump on the case. 31 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: You can find him at being Crump dot com. Another 32 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: special guest is joining me is Amad Aubrey's high school 33 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: football coach, a native of Brunswick, Georgia. Jason Vaughan, doctor 34 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psycho Allens to the Stars, joining me out 35 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills at Instagram. Doctor Bethany Marshall, James Shelnutt, 36 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: twenty seven years metro major case swat now lawyer, the 37 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: medical examiner for the entire state All Florida, doctor Tim Gallagher, 38 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: and Crime online dot Com investigator and reporter Levi Page. 39 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: In the last hours we learn charges and arrests have 40 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: gone down. Take a listen now to the GBI. We 41 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: were officially requested to become involved late Tuesday evening, when 42 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: mister Durten and I had a conversation, probably about nine 43 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: thirty or so that evening, he graciously requested us to 44 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: come in and we immediately accepted that request. I advised 45 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: him that we would hit the ground running very hard 46 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: Wednesday morning. So about ten o'clock Tuesday night, I relayed 47 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: that request down the chain of command to the Deputy 48 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: Director of Investigations, Scott Dutton, who was standing up here 49 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: with me to my left, and then Deputy Director Dutton 50 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: began putting together a team to begin the investigation. From 51 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: my perspective, early Wednesday morning, sometime during the morning hours 52 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: of Wednesday, we were able to secure our hands on 53 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: the file, the investigative file, which had been done previously, 54 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: and the agent spent the rest of that day pouring 55 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: through that file to make sure they understood what had 56 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: been done in the case and what they thought needed 57 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: to be done in the case, reviewing interviews and things 58 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: of that nature, and they spent the remainder of Wednesday 59 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: until very very late Wednesday night. Oh no, that voice anywhere, 60 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: That is the voice of a longtime colleague, Vic Reynolds, 61 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: who prosecuted with me in the Inner City Atlanta District 62 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: Attorney's office for many, many years. An excellent trial lawyer 63 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: and an excellent investigator. What a relief when the GBI 64 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: took over this case. But why did it come to that. 65 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: Let's just start at the beginning, how this whole thing 66 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: started brewing until it boiled over. Take a listen to 67 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: the nine one one calls breaks out here, there's a 68 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: guy in the house right and now the house under constructions. 69 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: You have your address or the other add house of 70 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: the address, uh right at two nineteen or two twenty. 71 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: Stuila drives and he said, someone them breaking into it 72 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: right now. No, it's it's all open. It's under construction. 73 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: And he's running right now, Terry good, he's right now. Okay, 74 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: what is he doing? He's running down the streets Hope, okay, exactly, Okay, 75 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: that's fine, I'll getting them out there. I didn't even 76 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: know what he was doing wrong. Was he just on 77 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: the premisesn't not supposed to be the week and stuff 78 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: on her. And he's been caught on the camera a 79 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: bunch before at night kind of an one thing out here. 80 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: The man is building a house. He got part. Easy's 81 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: up there. You're not going to finish. Okay, that's fine, 82 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: white T shirt, black guy, and he's done back, un done, 83 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: run back, rich of negative. Okay, you're hearing the nine 84 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: on and call that started this whole thing. Now we 85 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: know charges have been brought by the GBI Georgia Berry 86 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: of investigation of murder and aggravated assault. In the jurisdiction 87 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: of Georgia, murder carries life behind bars, life without parole, 88 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:37,119 Speaker 1: or the death penalty. Aggravated assault intentionally causing serious fear 89 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: of death or bodily injury carries the penalty of one 90 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: to twenty years repeat. Georgia is a death penalty state. 91 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: What an all star panel joining me straight out to 92 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: Ben Crump, civil rights lawyer on the case. You will 93 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: remember him from the Trayvon Martin defense. Ben Crump, It's 94 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: just so hard for me to take in the series 95 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: of events and then to claim citizens arrest. That is 96 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: what we understand. Sixty four year old Gregory McMichael and 97 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: son thirty four year old Travis McMichael are claiming, Yeah, Nancy, 98 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: it's just asinine. And I know we've covered many cases, 99 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: and this is one of the most shocking ones when 100 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: you think about you have that horrific video that literally 101 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: has them like a lynch mob almost chasing this young 102 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: black man through the community where he is just jogging 103 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: minding his business and these two vehicles are chasing him. 104 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: You imagine what is he thinking, Are they trying to 105 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: kill me? What did I do? And they're running after 106 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: him and they say they believe he burglarives at home now. 107 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: He has t shirts and shots and jogging shoes on. 108 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: He doesn't have a burglary's mask, he doesn't have a 109 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: burglar's bag or burglars too, any of that stuff. And 110 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: so it begs the question. When the police got there, 111 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: the first police on the sea, they just took their 112 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: word as the gospel. They didn't do any count investigation, 113 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: apparently because they let the killers go home and sleep 114 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: in their beds at night. And when everybody, whether us 115 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: at the day New York Times seeing in, they said, well, 116 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: we've called everybody in. There have been no calls for 117 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: burglar burglaries in this community, hud one thing at a time, 118 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: being cromped you. You're right. I've investigated the number of 119 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: burglaries in that community. There's only been one that has 120 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: been reported to police, and it was the burglary of 121 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: a vehicle party down on the street and a gun 122 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: was taken out of it. So I want to get 123 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: back to the claim of citizens around That is what 124 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: we understand Gregory and Travis McMichael are claiming in their defense. 125 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: You said something being crump that I want to follow 126 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: up on. You said that Ahmad Aubrey was being chased 127 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: by two vehicles. Now I think he may be right, 128 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: because somebody was taking that video. The Michael's weren't taking it. 129 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: Aubrey wasn't taking it. Tell me what you can shed 130 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: light on regarding two vehicles facing Ahmad Aubrey. Yes, ma'am. 131 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: It was the pickup truck well for Gregory Michael's in 132 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: the back, will for gun and his son driving and 133 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: another gentleman who we believe name is William Bryant, who 134 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: we believe will be arrested as an accomplice. But he's 135 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: the one who was trying to make sure he cut 136 00:09:53,880 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: off amand Aubrey. He's the one who video takes the 137 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: execution of this young man and broad daylight and I'll 138 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: follow j out to mister Bib. I know he knows 139 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: Mom personally, but it's just that's what it was. Are 140 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: you saying, William Bryant be Is and brother r y 141 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: A N t r Bes and brother r I A 142 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: N Brian b r y A N. I believe gotcha 143 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: William Brian. Now let me understand this. I'm chasing him 144 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: two vehicles. How did the second vehicle get involved? I 145 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: believe the Michael's whether Gregory of Travis called him and said, hey, 146 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: we we see this black man running and let's go 147 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: get him. We think he's burglar rising our community, is 148 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: what they said. But you know, you go back and 149 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: you ask yourself, now, I say, why do you have 150 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: a shotgun and a three fifty seven magnum pistol to go? 151 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: Who has a T shirt and short song juggons? Well, 152 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: you're right, but I guarantee you at trial because this 153 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: is head of Detroital right now, these are just GBI 154 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: charges Georgia Bureau Investigation. There's gonna be an indictment. I 155 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: guarantee you one way or the other, come hell or 156 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: high water, and they will have a right to explain 157 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: this on the stand Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The guys, 158 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: we are talking about the arrest of Gregory and Travis McMichael, 159 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: age sixty four and thirty four, respectively in the night. 160 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: Why why did it take so long? Joining me Crimoline 161 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page, Levi, what took so long? 162 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: So Nancy, the gLing County District Attorney's office active, and 163 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 1: because Gregory McMichael had been an investigator there for decades, 164 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: they wiped their hands of this case. And a special 165 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: prosecutor was brought in, Prosecutor George E. Barnhill, Georgia's Waycross 166 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: Judicial Circuit, and he claimed that miss start carrying. Yes, 167 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: they claimed that they were carrying their weapons legally under 168 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: Georgia law, that they were right to make a citizen's arrest, 169 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 1: and that this was in self defense and there was 170 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: insufficient stop stop right there because they got to go 171 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: to James Shell not twenty seven years Atlanta Metro major case. 172 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: Swat Now, lawyer, did you hear what he just said? 173 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: What Levi Page just said, citizens arrest? That is not 174 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: the citizens arrest statute in the state of Georgia. It's 175 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: just like saying, oh, I just saw Jackie Howard's shoplift, 176 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to go shoot her in the parking lot. 177 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 1: That is not what citizens arrest is. Explain James Sheldon, 178 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: why this is so wrong. This will never stand up 179 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: in a court of law. It's wrong on a couple 180 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: of different levels. Number One, the citizens arrest statute in 181 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: Georgia says that in order to make a citizens arrest 182 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: privacism must have a warrant. However, there are exceptions to that. 183 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: One is if the private citizen witnesses a violation of 184 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: state law that is committed that they witness or is 185 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: committed in their immediate presence. Okay, based off everything that 186 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: I've seen on the report, they can't even get past 187 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: the first hurdle, which is they didn't see this young 188 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: man commit any type of offense. Okay, I'm not just 189 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: jumping on the bandwagon. I am saying what I believe 190 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: to be true citizens arrest, and everybody's screaming about Georgia 191 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: citizens arrest. There are citizens arrest statutes all across the country. 192 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: None of them allow a citizen to apply deadly force, 193 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: in other words, kill somebody to apprehend a fleeing felon, 194 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: and even if it is a felon, you have to 195 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: see the felon committed crime. To Ben Crump, civil rights lawyer, 196 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: you know him from the Trayvon Martin trial. If you 197 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: take the McMichaels by their own words, they say, he 198 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: looks like a guy we think broke in before. And 199 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: we see him coming out of a house under constructions, 200 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: which means there's no walls or doors. He's coming from 201 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: that area jogging. That's how I read the police report. 202 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: Ben absolutely nasty, and it's so hard when I talk 203 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: to my clients, especially his father, to say why they 204 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: didn't arrest him on day one, because if the roads 205 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: were reversed, he says, he doesn't have any doubt that 206 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: if this was a mine in him, who got him 207 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: a pickup truck with this shotgun in this three fifth 208 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: and seven magnum and they chased Greg McMichael's son, a 209 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: young white man, and killed him in broad daylight. They 210 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: would have been arrested for day one. They could have 211 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: said citizens arrest. They could have said self defense, stand 212 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: your ground. It said, we cannot have two justice systems 213 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: in America, one for black American, one for white America, 214 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: and that is underscored in this case over and over again. 215 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: Been I'm gonna say, you're absolutely right. If the roles 216 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: were reversed and two black males chase down a white 217 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: twenty five year old football star and shot him dead 218 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: and they claimed citizens arrest, oh no, they would have 219 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: been laughed out of the court. You're right about that, 220 00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: and nobody wants a two tiered justice system. Guys, in 221 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: the last hours, we know that the GBI, headed by 222 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: Vick Reynolds, longtime colleague of mine, has made an arrest 223 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: and an announcement. These are GBI charges which I believe 224 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: will be followed by a formal grand jury indictment. Take 225 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: a listen to this early Thursday morning, yesterday morning, running 226 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: a plan of operation and what they thought needed to 227 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: be done regarding the remainder of the investigation. They hit 228 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: that pavement hard yesterday doing neighborhood canvases, talking to other 229 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: individuals who had already been spoken to, some individuals who 230 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: had not. And then after the course of that investigation 231 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: yesterday about five PM, we had a command staff level 232 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: conference call with the boots on the ground agents here 233 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: in Glen County, and we were advised at the Command 234 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: staff conference call that they had established and the facts 235 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: had established sufficient probable calls to seek arrest war it's 236 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: against both Greg and Travis McMichael for felony, murder and 237 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: aggive at assault. Guys, you're hearing the voice of Vick 238 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: Reynolds now running the GBI George Bureau of Investigation. But 239 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: how did the whole thing start? Listen to this nine 240 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: one one call, because I'm learning a lot by listening 241 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: to the mc michael's own words before they took off 242 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: in that pickup truck with the addressing emergency. I'm not 243 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: hearing Till shorts as a black male running down the 244 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: steer where we're at Steller's Shorts. I don't know what 245 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: three world about? That? Is it? Grevick? Sir? Hello, sir, sir, 246 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: where are you at? Hello? Hello? I just hate to 247 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: hear it. I hate to hear it. Those are the 248 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: last things that I'm Arebrey just twenty five heard, And 249 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: I think of my children, my little boy, my little girl, John, 250 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: David and Lucy, they're not that much younger running down 251 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: the road and suddenly finding out they're being pursued by 252 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: a pickup truck with two guys with guns, and then 253 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: dying right there on the pavement. Just think about that 254 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: for a moment, hold that thought, and then for the 255 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: McMichaels and I would not be saying this judging the 256 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: evidence this way if I had not seen the video 257 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: of myself, and you can see it at crime online 258 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: dot com. They are now saying that this twenty five 259 00:18:54,119 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: year old football star, Ahmad Arebury thought violently. Well, I 260 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: guess he did. You see a guy jump down of 261 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: a pickup choke with a shotgun? You do ive right, 262 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: You're gonna fight for your life? Why did this have 263 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: to happen? I want to go to another special guest 264 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: joining us. It's Jason Vaughan. This is a Mad Aubrey's 265 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: high school football defensive line coach, a Brunswick native. You know, 266 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: Jason Vaughan. I spent so much time in Brunswick, Georgia. 267 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: I've written a book about the area in one of 268 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: my murder mysteries. Because of the mephist Center which is 269 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: there at Saint Simon's and we'd take off every summer 270 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: and the church bus about forty five miles an hour 271 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: down Old forty one to get to your hometown. And 272 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: it's beautiful, the Live Oaks, the Georgia Coast, largely untouched Pristaine, 273 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: now marred by a crime that has torn the country apart. 274 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: Can you tell me about Ahmad Aarbury. Ahmad Aarbury was 275 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: just a specially young man. I was a coaching teacher 276 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: and he just had this smile that when you've seen him, 277 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: it lit up a room. Many teachers can relate that. 278 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: We just love on some kids a little extra harder. 279 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: And Maud was just one of those kids who he 280 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 1: was so shy, but once you can get him, you know, talking, 281 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: you can get that smile from him, and he can 282 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: sense when you were having a bad day. And he 283 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: would stand beside me, you know, if I'm having a 284 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: bad day, and he'll mimit me and saying, hey, I'm 285 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: coach round the day, y'all get the class. And he 286 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: was just getting me smiling and literally changed my whole 287 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: entire move. It was just that bright night. In our 288 00:20:49,359 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: Community Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking 289 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: about the death of a young man, a high school 290 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: football star and now two adult males former lawmen charged 291 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: with murder an aggravated assault. The Georgia Bureau of Investigations 292 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: has now stepped in, headed by longtime colleague Vic Reynolds. 293 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. Those agents then immediately yesterday evening, 294 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: sometime around the six o'clock hour or so, began securing 295 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: the warrants through the assistance of a spear court judge 296 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: in the Glen County area. Of those warrants were secured, 297 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: they went came back to their command center staff and 298 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: began putting together a plan of operation to effectuate the 299 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: arrest at about seven forty five. That was in fact 300 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: done yesterday evening without any instant. No one was hurt 301 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: and neither the defendants nor any of the agents, and 302 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: so that was done properly and safely, and we were 303 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: very thankful of that. Those individuals were then turned over 304 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: to the Glen County Sheriff's Department and have been placed 305 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: in custody at that particular jail. So that's where we're 306 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: at today. You're hearing a longtime colleague, Vic Renolds nar 307 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: running the GBI Georgia Bureau Investigations, who stepped in as 308 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: he should have to take control of this case and 309 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: make something happen. When I look at Ahmad Aubrey's mother, 310 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 1: she speaks very calmly, very calmly, but it really struck 311 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: me Ben Crump, lawyer on the case, civil rights attorney, 312 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: that she said she hasn't been able to bring herself 313 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: to look at the video. Did you hear her say that, Ben, Yes, Nancy, 314 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: and I don't think anybody in his family have been 315 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: able to watch the video except the sustance. And when 316 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: she watched it, she was so outraised that it killed 317 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: her mother and father over again because she was trying 318 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: to describe to them how Amad was executed and the 319 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: fact that a MOD was running from them. You know, 320 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: they say flight a fight where he tried to take 321 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: flight and today cut them off. And then at that 322 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: point you fighting for your life, like these guys got 323 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: a shotgun. They're yelling at me, and it's just unbelievable 324 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: when you think, what was Amad thinking? Why these guys 325 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: chasing me? What did I do wrong? I'm just exercising 326 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 1: and jogging. I know Coach Bonum probably knows that everybody 327 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: has said in that community, a MOD was physically fitting 328 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: he pried himself on standing in shape. He would run 329 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: four or five miles every day, so it wasn't incoming 330 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: for him to be jogging, and so for him to 331 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: be chased by you know, Nancy, it's hard to look 332 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: at that video and not HARKing back to yesteryears when 333 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: you did see, you know, these images of lynch mobs 334 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: chasing young black men and killing them and then not 335 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: having any accountability, going home and sleep in their bed 336 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: at night, as if their life didn't matter at all. 337 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: And that's what his mother and father and his family 338 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,719 Speaker 1: have to deal with. And I think that's why they 339 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: can't bring themselves to watch that video, you know. Dodtor 340 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall psychoanalysts join me from Beverly Hills on insta 341 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: at Dodtor Bethany Marshall, Doctor Bethany, I think that there's 342 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: also a psychological reason that they can't look at that video. Nancy. 343 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: It would be too traumatizing to know what happened to 344 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: their son, a nephew, a cousin, a brother, a family member, 345 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: a member of the community, a student, a star athlete, 346 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: all these things that are being described about Aubrey. To 347 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: see what he experienced to put themselves in his mind. Nancy, 348 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: that would be too traumatic. You know, some things we 349 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: just cannot digest, especially if it's a family member. We 350 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: can't think it, we can't know it. It would completely 351 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: overwhelm our ability to cope. The nation is outraged. The 352 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: nation can't stand to see this. The nation cannot stand 353 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: to know that this happened to this beautiful star athlete. 354 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: How could his own parents look here, see and witness 355 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: and bear witness to such a horrifying, tragic ending to 356 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: their sun's life. It's unthinkable. And you know, doctor Bethany, i' 357 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: pop all my love, my emotion, my energy into the 358 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: twins and to just see all those dreams, not just mine, 359 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: but there's end. And you know, Bethany, I've told you 360 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: many times I've never brought myself to go to the 361 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: sin of the crime where my fiancee was murdered shortly 362 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: before our wedding. I just don't want to see it. 363 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: I don't want that in my head. There's already enough 364 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: there regarding his murder. And Bethany, I remember when Lucy 365 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: and John David were born so premature, they originally thought 366 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: Lucy was blind and at one juncture, they had to 367 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: inject a needle into her eye area and I just 368 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: didn't think I could stand it. And my husband said, 369 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: you can leave, I'll stay. I'm like, no, I'm staying here. 370 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: I'm staying with her. And I stayed with her and 371 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: held her little little bitty baby. He know, she's born 372 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: at two pounds, and that nearly killed me watching that. 373 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: Can you imagine AMoD Urby's parents having to watch this video? Nancy, 374 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: I remember on Court TV after you had the twins, 375 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,479 Speaker 1: you were so worried that something would happen to them, 376 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: something bad, that I would be on set with you 377 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: and you would write me notes about the dreams you 378 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: had that bad things have. You know that somebody would 379 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: kidnap the twins, that some harm would befall them, and 380 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 1: you couldn't even bear to say it. You didn't want 381 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: to say it on a hot mic, you didn't want 382 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: people in the control room to hear it. But you 383 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: just had to say it to somebody to get reassurance. 384 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: You know, in the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual 385 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: of Mental Disorders, when you look at trauma and post 386 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: traumatic stress, one of the things that causes trauma is 387 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: witnessing a traumatic scene. You don't have to be in 388 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: it to be traumatized. Witnessing it is traumatic. So I 389 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: think even people listening to the show, people who have 390 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: seen the video, it's important for them to process with 391 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: their friends, loved ones, with a therapist what we're all 392 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 1: seeing and talking about, so that we, as in the 393 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: mom and dad, are going to look at that video. 394 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: To doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the entire 395 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: state of Georgia, excuse me off Florida, dotor Gallagher, what 396 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: exactly were the wounds that we know of as of 397 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: right now? To Ahmad Aurbury, Well, we know that Ahmad 398 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: Aubury were shot two times with a shotgun, and a 399 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: shotgun is one of the most powerful weapons that you 400 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: can have in your hands. For those of the listeners 401 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: who are unfamiliar with the shotgun, a single bullet comes 402 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 1: out of a regular handgun, but out of a shotgun 403 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: comes many, many projectiles. At the pull of the trigger. 404 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: A close range shotgun injury is almost fatal. Having two 405 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: shotgun injuries is certainly going to be fatal of anyone 406 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: who leaves their vehicle carrying a shotgun and a three 407 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: fifty seven magnum is up to no good, doctor gall. 408 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: Let me clarify in my own on and for the 409 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: listeners and viewers, what does a shotgun blast wound look 410 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: like as supposed to Let's just say at twenty two. Well, 411 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: a twenty two is a very small gun. Is probably 412 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: one of the least powerful handguns or rifles that you 413 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: can carry. Typically, what we find is that a twenty 414 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: two projectile, a twenty two bullet will enter into the body, 415 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: it will cause damage, but it is too weak to 416 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: exit the body. There's no there's typically no exit wound 417 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: with a twenty two, A very small entry wound, a 418 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: very small entry when sometimes you really have to look 419 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: for them, they're just that small. But if you can 420 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: compare that with a shotgun, and I'm going to just 421 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: try to not be as a detailed for the listeners, 422 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: but there's a there's a very tell me the truth. 423 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: I don't care what the truth is, Just hit me 424 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: all righty, Well, the entrance of a shotgun is extremely large. 425 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: It's probably the size of a half dollar or even 426 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: greater than that. There are many projectiles that enter the 427 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: body and go off in different directions, and then those 428 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: projectiles actually exit the body in a very large pattern, 429 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: maybe though sometimes it's the size of say a teacup saucer. 430 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: And when they exit the body, they exit with a 431 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: lot of blood. They exit, they push all some of 432 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: the organs out of the entrance wound, as well as 433 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: some of the bones and blood vessels. So it's a 434 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: very devastating, very fatal injury. We don't have many people 435 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: that survive a close range shotgun blast of any type. 436 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: Plod stories with Nancy Grace with me doctor Tim Gallagher, 437 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: the medical examiner for the State of Florida. You are 438 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: hearing what happened to Ahmad Aubrey. We are talking about 439 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: the death of a twenty five year old young man 440 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: in the last hours. The GBI has handed down information 441 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: regarding and arrest on two charges murder and agassolt. I 442 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: just heard Ben Crump, civil rights lawyer, also on the case. 443 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: Ben was that you it was Nasa. I just want 444 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: to interject, and I'm going to have to leave in 445 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: a minute, Nat, because I understand AMA's birthday and his 446 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: family has something dispatcher that they're going to try to 447 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: do memory um and it underscores how difficult of a day. 448 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: This is the arrest was a small birthday gift, but 449 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: as my client, his father Marcus said, we would just 450 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: much rather to have our son back. We wish we 451 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: had him on his twenty sixth birthday, he said. We 452 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: spent every birthday his whole life with him. This is 453 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: the first one they won't have with him. And if 454 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: I listened to the medical examine to explain the trauma 455 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: that his body must have endured from those shotguns bullets, 456 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: it's just so tragic that his life had to end 457 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: that way. And you heard Coach Bond and everybody who 458 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: has talked about a mind just say he was a 459 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: wonderful young man. He was a given karen person. His 460 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: father said, if he had his last dollars in his 461 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: pocket and you needed it, a mom was the counter 462 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: guy who would give it to you. Well, Benrump, you 463 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: better buckle your seatbelt because you know what's coming next, 464 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: all right. Just like with Trayvon Martin, Mahmad Rbury is 465 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: gonna be dragged through the mud. Do I like it? 466 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: H double L n O, But it's gonna happen. So 467 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: after you get through this day with Ahmad Aarbrey's family, 468 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: when they're ready. You better sit them down and tell 469 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: them what's gonna happen. And they're gonna have to endure 470 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: it and stay strong with the eye on the prize. 471 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: And that is justice justice in this case. And it's 472 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: gonna hurt awful, it's gonna be terrible on them, but 473 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: they've got to keep their eye on the prize. And 474 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: let me tell you something else, Crump, it is cold 475 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: comfort to get justice when you want your son back, 476 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: when you want your love of your life back. But 477 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: that's what we've got, that's what they that's what they have. 478 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: That's all they've got to look forward to. Right now. 479 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: To Jason Vaughan, I was just telling Being Crump civil 480 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: rights lawyer, a lawyer on this case. You can find 481 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: them at being crump dot com. Jason on with me. 482 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: I'm out Albury's high school football defensive line coach. I 483 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: know Albury's gonna get jagged through the mud. Everything he's 484 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: ever done wrong is going to be pulled out of 485 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: the closet and put on the front page. I'm ready 486 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: for it, but I want you to tell me why 487 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: was he a football star? I know he was one 488 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,879 Speaker 1: of the MVA MVPs and played in the All Star Game. 489 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: Tell me about him. He told me about a smile. 490 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: What mar can you tell me? I just want to 491 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: tell you about his character. He was a leader on 492 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: the team. I'm just just one of the most vivid 493 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: stories I can remember about Mad. At the end of practice, 494 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: we're running these sprints. We got these guys running these 495 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: sprints because they didn't have a good practice, And the 496 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: whole time mine is just so encouraging killing those guys. Hey, 497 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: we gotta keep going. Keep your head of us, you know, 498 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: stand up tall. We had one guy who couldn't quite 499 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: make the time, mid spread all the way across the field. 500 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: Winna grabbed that man, Adam, and just took the man 501 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: arm and threw it around his shoulder and literally started 502 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: to jog and pull him in with him over the 503 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: line so that young man could finish that sprint on time. 504 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: And that's the kind of guy a Mad was. He 505 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: was always running out and looking out for others, trying 506 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: to do it for us, using his strength to make 507 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: other people strong. And that's why I say I don't 508 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: run this race. I run with Mad. A young man 509 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: who had great endurance, a young man who was loved 510 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: in our community. He would run all around our community, 511 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 1: and he would take the time to stop and play 512 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: basketball with the kids. And he'll play three or four 513 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: games with the kids into the neighborhood, kids got tired, 514 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: and then as soon as they got tired and went in, 515 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: he would go right back on his run. Because that's 516 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: the kind of guy he was. That running outside of 517 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: this beautiful area and there is a beach, it gets 518 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: you so much clarity with the wind and everything blowing, 519 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: and he could just literally just free his mind and 520 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 1: just and run and just forget about all the problems 521 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: of the day, and just forget about all the problems 522 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: of the week. And so he was out doing something 523 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: he loved, something he enjoyed. Our whole community is saying 524 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: the same thing. The mod was a runner in our community. 525 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: The kids Newman level, neighbor's normal level. They would speak 526 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: to him as he went down the road. He was 527 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: a son to our community. That breaks mouth and our 528 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: community and we know that the rules of justice is 529 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: going to be lone. But once again, I'm not using 530 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: my strength. I run with mad and this community does 531 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: his will. Let me tell you you're right about that. 532 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: The road to justice is going to be long, rough 533 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 1: and rocky, and nobody can walk it. For Ahmad Aubrey's parents, 534 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 1: they got to walk it alone until they get to 535 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: the end of the road. What you just said breaks 536 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: my heart. That he said, keep your head up, Keep 537 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: your head up. Guys, we are talking about the death 538 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: of a young twenty five year old man, Ahmad Aubrey, 539 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: and he, like every other twenty five year old man, 540 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,479 Speaker 1: was not always an angel. But for the most part, 541 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, this was a great kid that 542 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: was growing into a great man by all accounts. Now, 543 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: how did this happen? According to these two defendants, Gregory 544 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 1: and Travis McMichael, there have been a rash of break 545 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: ins in the area, and I know the area very well, 546 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: a lot of construction going on there. But when you 547 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: compare what they said to the reality, only one police report, 548 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: that's all we've been able to find in that neighborhood, 549 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: and it was of a car parked out on the 550 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: street and a gun was taken out of the car. 551 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 1: What rash of burglaries? Michaels as I understand it. Levi 552 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 1: Page also said that Ahmad Aubrey looked like the guy 553 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: in the surveillance video. Hold on just a moment too, 554 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: Jason Vaughan, are being crump. I believe I'm getting background 555 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: noise from you. If you can meet yourselves, that'd be great. Leage. 556 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: Go ahead. You're correct, Nancy. The McMichaels had said that 557 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 1: there was a man outside the area near this home 558 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: that was under construction that matched the description of Ahmed 559 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: are Bury. But Nancy, they said that he matched the description, 560 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: how could they be sure that it was You know what, 561 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 1: Let's just take him at their word. And this is 562 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: why I'm doing that, James Shell not twenty seven years 563 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: metro major case swat now lawyer, because even if what 564 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: they said is true that he looked like somebody that 565 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,760 Speaker 1: they thought was a burglar, if that's true, that still 566 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: does not justify deadly force, because when somebody's running from 567 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: you and you go after them, there's no claim of 568 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: self defense. Even cops are not entitled now to shoot 569 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: a fleeing felon unless they're presenting a danger. Yeah, you're 570 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: hundred percent correct. And what they did was illegal in 571 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,319 Speaker 1: the first place, and then now Georgia law is going 572 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: to prevent them from arguing, and common sense prevents them 573 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: from argument that hey, we did something illegal. Now this 574 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,280 Speaker 1: guy attacked us and we were acting in self defense. BS, 575 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: That's not what happened. And number two, even if you're 576 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: looking at this statute that the citizens rest statute, you 577 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: can only use deadly force if you were lawful or 578 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,959 Speaker 1: you're preventing a forcible felony. None of those things apply. 579 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: This statute doesn't apply. And even taking on their face, 580 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: they have no claim under citizens arrest, they are going 581 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: to be prosecuted. You know, James Shelnutt, everybody's on fire 582 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: about the citizens or a statute. There's a citizens are 583 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: a statute and almost every jurisdiction in the country. But 584 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: what happened with Ahmad Aurbrey is not a citizens arrest. 585 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 1: Number one, citizens arrest is very akin to vigilante justice 586 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: or as I call it, vigilante injustice. In this case, 587 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: you have to see the person committing a felony and 588 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: then you are to pursue them if you're doing a 589 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: citizens arrest, but not with a gun. And no statute 590 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: is a citizen allowed to shoot down another citizen. Yeah, 591 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 1: I agree. The only way that they're going to be 592 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: justified in this and they're not, by the way, But 593 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: the only argument that they can make is that, hey, 594 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: we were acting lawfully under this citizens arrest statute and 595 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: this guy attacked us. Well, they're going to be prevented 596 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: from making an effective argument on that because what they 597 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: were doing in the first place was illegal, and you 598 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 1: can't be doing something illegal and then claim that you're 599 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: attacked and that you're justified in using deadly force. And also, 600 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: when you're the aggressor you kick, claim self defense when 601 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,319 Speaker 1: your prey turns around and fights back. Guys, we are 602 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 1: waiting as justice unfalls. Right now, they're EBI charges and 603 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: we are waiting for a grand jury. True Bill Nancy 604 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 1: Grace's Crime Story signing off. Goodbye friend guys. Before we 605 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 1: sign off, let me tell you about an incredible new 606 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: true crime podcast hosted by our good friend Karen Smith. 607 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: You know, the word forensics often brings to mind white 608 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,919 Speaker 1: lab coats, latex gloves, But forensic detectives spend their days 609 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: rushing from crime scene to crime scene with no resources 610 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,320 Speaker 1: to help them deal with the emotional fallout that follows. 611 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: Brought to you by Crime Con, this new podcast, Shattered Souls, 612 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: a forensic detective's diary follows forensic detective veteran Karen Smith 613 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: as she revisits poignant and detail journals to share the 614 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,839 Speaker 1: stories of victims you've likely never heard of, but who 615 00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: she can't forget, and the shattered souls left behind in 616 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: their wake. Crime Con presents Shattered Souls debutes May nine 617 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: on your favorite podcast streaming platform. Learn more at crime 618 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 1: con dot com slash podcast. Here's a special snake peak 619 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: in this nightmare. I'm back in the autopsy suite and 620 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: her teeth unstick from her lips and she gurgles at me, 621 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: Please help me. How are you somebody out there on 622 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: the ground. Oh my God, tell me exactly what happened. 623 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: My name is Karen Smith. For eleven years, I was 624 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 1: a forensic detective from Jacksonville, Florida. But right now I'm 625 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 1: just someone with stories to tell. Stories of victims you've 626 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: likely never heard of, and the emotional toll that working 627 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: around death and destruction has on the people tasked with 628 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 1: finding the answers to what happened to them. There are 629 00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:01,400 Speaker 1: things about it that are deeply rooted. There's just too 630 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,799 Speaker 1: much blood for that, and sometimes you just can't get 631 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:11,880 Speaker 1: over it. I was scared to death. We had a 632 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 1: really worst case scenario. None of it made innocence and 633 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 1: when we rolled her body over. When you see something 634 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,959 Speaker 1: like that, you get angry or you just shut it down. 635 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: Detectives taped a wire to Jimmy Jackson's chest. That is 636 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:37,840 Speaker 1: the voice of a terrified man. We had an unidentified 637 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 1: victim who done it murder and that's a little bit unusual. 638 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: It was a really forcible crash. This truck looked like 639 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 1: it could have been a crack rental. We have a 640 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,360 Speaker 1: dead retired cop. Whoever did it was savvy enough to 641 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 1: pick the casings up and take them with them. And 642 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,560 Speaker 1: she put her finger in my chest and she said, 643 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,919 Speaker 1: you find out who did this. Follow along each week 644 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: as I dig into my journals and relive the emotions, 645 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,760 Speaker 1: the pain, and the triumph of these hard won victories 646 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: for the victims and the shattered souls of their loved 647 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: ones left behind. Subscribe to Crime con Presents Shattered Souls, 648 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 1: a forensic detective's diary on your favorite podcast platform, Available 649 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: on May ninth. This is the no reel